Latest / The Eye of Jupiter Podcast / 92 The Truth About Mothman: Prophecy, Fear, and Mystery

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92 The Truth About Mothman: Prophecy, Fear, and Mystery · The Eye of Jupiter Podcast

• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the I Jupiter Podcast. This is episode
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: ninety two and I had on Steve Ward. He helps
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: run the Moffman Museum there in Point Pleasant, West Virginia,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: and we kind of go through all the accounts, the
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: enigma that is Maufman, What was it? What is it?
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: The all the different people, all the that come in
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: and tell him his stories because he's there at the museum,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: the Maffman Festival that goes every year. We talk about
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: the Mafman prophecies and what John Keel was doing and
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: what he was researching when he did that. Fantastic episode,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: jam packed with information. You might want to have to
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: stop it once in a while and look up some
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: of his references that he was mentioning because I didn't
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: know many of them. I appreciate you guys support. The
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: podcast is doing pretty good now, starting to pick up.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: I see those in the numbers. If you guys want
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: to help me out, just lead me a rating over
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: at Spotify. You can catch me every Friday at six
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: forty five Eastern time, and we have our live show
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: grow on YouTube. Stop by talk with us, ask the
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: interviewee some questions. We always have a good time over there.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: If you have a story or anything you want to
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: reach out and tell me about, please do so by
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: sending me an email at the Iajubertopodcast at gmail dot com.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: So I'm glad you guys are doing well out there,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: and I hope you enjoyed this show with one mister
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Steve Wart.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Great to be here. I do have to make a correction.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: I'm actually not the curator. Oh, that's Jeff Walmsley. He
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: created the museum back in two thousand and six. He
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: was actually five and six years old when all this broke,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: about five years old when the mothband sightings started, and
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: then when the bridge collapsed. He was actually in his
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: basement several miles from the bridge playing with us, and
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: he actually heard the crash. But we can get into
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: that later. I am gainfully employed by Jeff. I show
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: up on Saturdays and other times when he calls me
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: in and I greet people. I answer their questions. I
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: have been following the Mothman history or folklore, however you
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: want to put it, since about November December of nineteen
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: sixty six. I was in junior high school in Michigan
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: when that first first major sighting took place when the
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: two couples were chased down Route sixty two out of
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: what they call the.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: T and T Area.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: It's been nicknamed the T and T area forever. If
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: you look at the old black and white photographs from
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: the forties, you'll see this huge complex where they made
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: explosives for World War Two and they stored them in
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: one hundred of these concrete bunkers. Well, most of those
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: buildings have been taken down, not all of them. In
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: November of nineteen sixty six, and that's when the two
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: couples were out there in that area and they first
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: saw this thing, so and it hit the thing is
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: it hit the wire services all over the world. And
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: that's why I read it about it in Michigan at
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: the time. And this is even before Mothman had a
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: proper name. The locals were just calling it the bird
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: back then.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Right, is one of the couples, is that Linda Siegmund.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: No, Linda is uh? She was I know Linda, And
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: she was sixteen years old in April of nineteen sixty
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: seven when she had her sighting and what's her book?
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Beyond the Pale Moonlight, I think, And she was she
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: was with her boyfriend and they were sitting on the
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: hood of their carr of his car, just kind of
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: looking at the sky and they saw, you know, I
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: always condensed the story, but they saw a strange light
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: and then they actually saw another one they took off.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Linda was looking outside the window. She saw this object
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: or whatever it was, and next to it was the
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: apparently the mothman or this wing creature that people were
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: seeing and so, and she's a very credible witness, yes,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: in the Parkersburg area now. And it was her sighting
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: was about twelve miles north of Point Pleasant and that
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: was the April before the December when the Silver Bridge collapsed.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: But the two couples were Roger and Linda Scarberry and
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Steven Mary Mallet, and they were driving along, the two
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: married couples. They were driving along the dirt road there. Again,
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: this area was pretty much abandoned even back then. They
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: used to drag race up there and it was kind
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: of a lover's lane, I guess. And they were driving
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: by the old North Power plant, which was still standing
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: at the time. And Linda actually Jeff Wansley, Linda's no
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: longer with us. She died several years ago, but before
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: I was able to talk to her several times and
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: she never changed her story. But Jeff Walmsley took her
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: out there one time and he said, Linda, just tell
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: me everything that happened that that night.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: And so.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: She took him out there and she said they were
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: coming south on this dirt road by the old North
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: power Plant, and she said to the others, what's that
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: man doing standing in the middle of the road. Well,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: that man spread his wings by about ten feet, had red,
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: red eyes, red glowing eyes. It shuffled off toward the
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: old North power Plant. They took off, and they made
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: a couple turns and were headed south down Route sixty
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: two to go into town. That passed it was a
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: billboard right there at that corner, and they saw this
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: thing standing there, either the same thing or its cousin,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: we don't know for sure. And it was about six
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: seven foot tall, roughly humanoid like I say, a ten
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: foot wingspan, a darkened colored. People would call it say
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: gray or black, maybe brown. And that's how it started.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: There was actually a sighting in Clint Denning, UH, West Virginia,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: in a cemetery UH by some men that were grave
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: diggers out there. Okay, I think that came to came
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: to surface later, but that's kind of how it started.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: They went to went to the police, and the police,
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: uh separated them and they they're they're actually their written statements.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: You can find them in the Mothman Museum that you know,
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: that that Jeff has put together over the years.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: It's pretty remarkable.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: So they actually separated them to get their stories to
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: see to see if they can collaborate what what they're
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: what they're, you know, what their encounter was, so they
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: can make sure that it's not just some kind of
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: made up you know, something something you know, just for
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: you know, whatever reason they would do that for now,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: are right, So let's get it. So you were in
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Michigan when this all went down nineteen.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, November nineteen sixty six. The incident was November fifteenth,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: so the newspaper item probably would have showed up maybe
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: the next day or the day after. I'm not sure,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: but you know, if you go into the Mautmam Museum
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: was it was even covered in the military newspaper Stars
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: and Stripes. So this thing just traveled everywhere and we
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: you know a few months before that in March of
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty six, we had a major UFO flap in Michigan,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: a very very well publicized one with a lot of
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: credible people including policeman and so forth, seeing these objects.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: And there was even a landing on the frank Manor
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: farm in Dexter, right near Ann Arbor. And so that
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: was that was pretty cool. That was when doctor j.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Allen Heinik, who is pretty well known, he wrote the
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: book years ago called the UFO Experience where he established
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: the close encounter categories several He established several categories to
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: try and you know, understand the uf of phenomena better.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: And so he was unfortunately, he was still tied to
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: the Air Force. And while he had began it, began
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: to believe that these people were really experiencing something, because
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: he did start out as a skeptic. He was an
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: astronomer from Northwestern University in Chicago.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: But he he suggested that some of the sightings, like
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: the ones in Hillsdale there was an all girl, all
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: girls college there, he suggested that they might have seen
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: swamp gas. And so, you know, he didn't mean to
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: suggest they were all swamp gas.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: But again he was stuck. He was.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: The Air Force wanted him to diffuse everything and kind
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: of uh explain it, and so he did have regrets
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: later and later years.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: It was so famous because the actual that's guests that
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: that explanation that they we know that they used to
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: deflect away from what's happening, was actually even used in
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: the movie Men in Black, And that was him. That
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: was him, the original guy.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Exactly in his then colleague Jacques Vallet, who is another
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: great of course John Keel will be talking about him,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: is the one that wrote the mock banned prophecies and
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: was did the investigation.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: But Jacques Flais was a bit disappointed, you know.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: But I actually saw doctor Heinek speak ten years later
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: in ann Arbor, Michigan. It was at the MUFOND, the
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Mutual UFO Network Symposium, and you know, he had long
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: separated from the Air Force. He had started the Center
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: for UFO Studies in Emmittson, Illinois, and they were doing
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: some good investigation and research and some publishing. And he
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: recounted the name of his talk was Swamp Gas plus
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: ten and Counting, which was a serious talk, but there
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: was a bit of humor in there too. He showed
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: us these great cartoons that surfaced at the time, and
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: one of them I'll never forget is you see the
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: landed flying saucer on a street and the little green
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: men are there with their big blasters, and they stopped
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: a man on the street Earthlane, and they say to him,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: take us to the one that called a swamp gas
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: And so he had a few a few cartoons like that.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: It's important, it's important. I think it's important. I do
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: that always. You know, on the show, I'm being a
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: form of stand up myself or a current stand up here.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I'm in Mexico, by the way, and you know, when
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: I speak to people and they have these encounters you
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: a mothman, Bigfoot, all these cryptids, ufo, you know, you
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: kind of want to make sure that they feel that
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: human connection again. So I think if you're presenting something
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: to a larger audience, it's also to be a little bit,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: you know, tongue in cheek, a little funny and kind
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: of get to people, like to calm them down and say, look,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: this is the evidence that we have to the best
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: of our ability, and let's go ahead and present to
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: the public. I think it's I think it's a very
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: wise thing to do, honestly.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Well, he was in a bad position back then. I mean,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: he would have really angered the Air Force if he
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: had just come out and say, you know, and said
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: what he thought. But so anyway, it all worked out
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: for the better. It all worked out for the better,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: the greater good.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: All right. So you're in Michigan, and so what brought
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: you down to point plus? Just this or and you
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: just want.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: To I've been coming down for years. Actually, my first
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: time down here was in nineteen seventy seven. I had
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: read John Keel's book The Moth Banned Prophecies in nineteen
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: seventy five when it came out, And I had been
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: following John Keel's writings great books like Operation Trojan Horse,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: The Complete Guide to Mysterious Beings, and he wrote articles
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: over the decades that were published in in Saga Magazine, Argacy,
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: True UFO Report, and so forth, and so I couldn't
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: wait to get my hands on the Moth Bank Prophecies.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: So I read the book, and I was visiting some
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: friends in Orchard Park, New York, just south of Buffalo,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: and I took it an extra day. I took a
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: day off work, and so I drove down blind because
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to see the area. I found the
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: historic Low Hotel by happenstance, stayed there that night. I
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: had a map of the T and T area, and
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: back then you could you could drive around it. Now
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: I don't remember much of I mean, I couldn't tell
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: you where I where I was in the T and
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: T area then as opposed to now. The old North
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Power plant was still standing, and I did get a
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: bunch of great black and white photographs of that, but
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: unfortunately I have not been able to find them for
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: probably about twenty years. I remember I came across them
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: one day in the attic of my house in Michigan,
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: and I have no idea. I was hoping that in
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: the move I would find them. And then in two
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: thousand and six I started coming down to the Monkman Festival.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: You know, it's not that far away to go Kidney
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Corner through Ohio from southern Michigan south central Michigan and
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: uh and it was just man, I was just in
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Seventh Heaven, I mean to come. You know, I had
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: been down there before, but I didn't remember much about
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: the area. It had been about twenty nine years in
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: between visits, so and uh, you know, they.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: Have speakers every year.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I got to talk to people I've been had read
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: their books, and I was in Seventh Heaven. It was
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: just it was just fantastic. And so for several years
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: I would come down and come down other times too,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: and made a bunch of friends down here. And then
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: finally three years ago I moved down here. So and
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: I actually actually live on the same road that the
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Scarberry's and the Mallets were chased by the Mothsman. Wow,
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: that's that's pretty cool. A stone's throw from downtown Point Pleasant.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, that's that's awesome. I love when people followed
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: their passion. But what is it about it that makes
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: you passionate? What is it about the Mothman, the lore,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: the stories, the sightings, What is it about it that
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: just you know, tickles your fancy.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Well, I've always been intrigued by you know, I started
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: out with reading books by Frank Edwards. He wrote these
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: great anthologies of the Unexplained, and Jim and Coral Lorenzen
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: wrote great books about UFO landings and some of these
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: entities people were reporting seeing. And of course there was
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: the Betty and Barney Hill incident, which was covered and
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: I think it was Look magazine at the time, So
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: you know, there was a big wave of interest back then,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: and not and not every everybody was being ridiculed, you know,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: some some of it was taken kind of seriously. So
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've just always been intrigued by it. And
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: it's not not just the Mothman per se, but the
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: whole realm. You know, if you get into John Keel's
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: research and is thinking, especially in a book like Operation
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Trojan Horse, he was connecting the dots, the thought that
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: like Charles Fort, the great Charles Fort that wrote the
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Book of the Damned, and you know, he was the
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: one that back in nineteen ten he was collecting from
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: scientific journals. He was collecting all these oddities about falling fish,
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: chunks of ice, red rains, just just bizarre phenomena that
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: was in the that you know, you could find in
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: these scientific journals, but nobody had gathered them together to
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: show absolutely how prevalent and how.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Bizarre the whole thing was. So that's pretty much. You know.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Keel considered himself a forteen. He did not want to
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: be called a ufologist. He didn't like that at all
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: for whatever reason. But so, but Keel is the one
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: that connected you know, cryptids, UFOs, ghost lights, psychic phenomena.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: There seemed to be these under lying patterns and people
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: that were experiencing these things. A certain percentage of people
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: seem to be tuned in to this. He would call
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: it the super spectrum or or whatever, uh that that
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: that these individuals would have more than one experience, sometimes
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: all throughout their lives. If if you sat down with
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: them and asked them enough questions, you'd find out that
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: there's like a whole tapestry of of the paranormal of
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: the experiences that that this one person would have. A
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: lot of times researchers would focus on if they saw
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: encryptid or maybe they saw a light in the sky
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: or whatever and was missing was missing everything else. So
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: that's that's that's where my fascination lies, the patterns, the
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: connections that that seemed to show up on these things.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: You know, like a vehicle stoppages. We we're all familiar
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: with reports of close encounters with some kind of a
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: strange object or light. Sometimes the car will stall. Well,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: you can find the same phenomena and there was an
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: incident in the in the sixties in Northumberland, England, where
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: a phantom army manifested and this woman was in the
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: taxicab and the taxicab stalled. The fair meter was going
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: crazy and they felt like they're being buffered by a
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: force field. And this phantom army, you know, didn't last
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: very long. It faded out. It was the from the
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Battle of Otterburn from thirteen eighty eight. The reason they
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: knew that is because of the they could tell by
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: the uniforms and this thing, this army or whatever, had
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: manifested occasionally before. There are situations. There's a classic case
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: in near the the state park in West Virginia. I'm
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: trying to think what it'll come to me that the town.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: But a guy named Priestley, he was driving along with
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: his buddies and they were in.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: Front of him.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: There was like a hunting bus and uh, all of
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: a sudden, his car stalls and it comes to a
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: full stop. His buddies were going up ahead, and uh,
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: he looks to the left and there's a classic bigfoot
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: standing there and he's stunned. He doesn't know how much
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: time he lost. And then his buddies realize he's not
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: they're not He's not behind him. They're turning around, they're
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: coming back, and this thing recedes into the woods. He
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: can start his car again. He says nothing to his
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: buddies about what he saw. They start to take off again.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know how far he got, but then the
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: car stalls again. It starts to spark, and his engine
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: burns out. And what's what's and here's this buddy, his
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: kissing cousin or whatever. This this cryptid is standing on
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: the edge of the road. And there's other cases. Stan
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Gordon from Pennsylvania has chronicled a few cases where it
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: seems the close proximity of a cryptid of a bigfoot
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: has something to do with the.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: Combustion engine of the car, you know.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: So.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: And then the funny thing is he said nothing about
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: this for months. He finally came out with a story later.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: But he wanted to come back to this area and hunt,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: so he wasn't going to tell his buddies, hey, I
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: saw a bigfoot because he was afraid they were going
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: to be scared off and not come back and hunt.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, there are just you know, there are just
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: a lot of patterns that seemed to, you know, cut
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: through the walls of the barriers of what many people
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: tend to think of as something very separate, and that's
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: kind of what what is is my passion? And these
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: well the high strangest areas, you know, like like Point
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Pleasant was in the sixties, uh, the Skinwalker Ranch, the
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Bridgewater Triangle. There are a lot of areas where all
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: different types of phenomena seem to exist, and you know,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: the question is why what is it about these areas
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: geographically perhaps that allows that to be.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Let's let's go back to the math thing. Could you
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: like maybe you know the best you can because you know,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: you're very eloquent, eloquently spoken, man, Could you do me
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: a favor and just kind of maybe people who don't
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: know about it, who've never heard about Mothman, it's possibility,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Like you know, within the last couple of years, I've
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: heard about it myself in the last five years. They're like,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: oh wow, I looked into it myself. Could you maybe
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: like go back and like how it started, Go back
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: to the you know, like some of the dream phenomenon
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: and the bridge and all those things, and like just
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: kind of tell people a little bit about it.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Well, the of course, that was the first major sighting,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: and then there are a couple of cases where people
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: they thought it was a big joke. So a lady,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: for example, Marcella Bennett, this is just a couple of
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: days later, she and her brother drive out to the
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: actually to the T and T area. Some friends lived
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: in that area. It's the Meclintic Wildlife Area. Now it's
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: still you know, and those bunkers still exist. Those they
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: call them igloos, the kind of create igloos, and you
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: can actually access some of them.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: So they went out there.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: And they were going to tap on the windows of
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: their friends and try and scare them, you know, with
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: all the mothman stuff going on. But they weren't home,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: just their children were home, so they were leaving. Her
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: brother was trying to get her attention because there was
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: some kind of a strange light up in the sky.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: She wasn't interested, but all of a sudden, this thing
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: rose up from the ground a mothman, I guess, and
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: it just absolutely stunned her. She dropped her infant child.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: The child was okay, but yeah, I mean, she collapsed
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: and she had a hard time her legs were so
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: weak because of the fright. She had a hard time
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: recovering and getting up, but they both got going, she
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: and her brother, they had of course, they had the
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: child with her. They ran inside the house, locked the door,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: and this thing came and was walking back and forth
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: on the porch while they were in there, and of
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: course the police went. You know, just like a movie script.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: The police werecalled and they got there too late. She's
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: one of the witnesses I met several of the original
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: witnesses of Marcella. Was one I did not meet, but
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: a friend of mine, Brian Seach, who's a cryptid researcher.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: He and his wife Terry, and he got to see
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: her at an event. It might have it might have
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: been the what was it, the two thousand and three
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Mothband Festival where they unveiled the statue of the Mothbank statue.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: But anyway, he had a chance to talk to her,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: she said, and I've seen long form interviews with her.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: She was afraid to drive at night for years afterwards.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: But she told Brian, she said, don't ever let them
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: tell you it didn't happen. I mean, she was vehement
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: about her experience there was another lady I know who's
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: still with us, Fade de Wit. She was fairly young,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: her brother had just gotten his license and they drove
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: out to the old Norse power plant. He thought it
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: was a big joke and he just wanted to scare
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: his siblings. Well, they saw it. It ran by the
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: car and face that it actually jumped up on the
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: hood and looked in the window.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: And you may have seen.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Her interviewed several times. She she she her her line
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: is it had the biggest reddest eyes you ever did see.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: And she's another very credible late lady. So there's uh,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: you know, these people experience something, it's very difficult to
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: know what they what they experienced up there's a there's
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: a couple of great documentaries by uh small Town Monsters. Yes, Yes,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: And there's the Uh I'm actually featured in the second
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: one occasionally, so you you, I don't want people to
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: be alarmed if they see me there. But the I'm
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: in the Mothman Legacy, which is a sequel to The
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Mothman Point pleasant and there's a lot of great interviews
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: in the In the first one, Reverend Gray it talks
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: about his experience I spoke to his wife, pat She
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: wrote a book called The Thing, and she spoke at
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: the festival. One year, they were in their bedroom and
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: this thing had just broken, but they had not seen
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: the newspapers. This thing manifested six seven foot tall, ten
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: foot wingspan, red glowing eyes in their bedroom and then
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: it dissipated, you know, and so you know, how do
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: we explain that? And from their context, they thought it
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: was something demonic. Now, the next day they went they
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: were slated to go off to a far away country
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: because they were missionaries, and.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: So they was, I don't know.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: A couple of years later they came back and they
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: saw the old newspapers and they thought, my god, that's
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: what we saw in our bedroom. Now here's another weird factor, well,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: two more weird factors. John Keel found that several people
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: that saw this thing had a an outbreak of poltergeist
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: phenomena afterwards, maybe for a couple of weeks at home.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: There's a Swedish researcher named Franzen who had corresponded with
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Keel and got to him some information for some of
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: his books. He came into Point Pleasant about a year
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: or two after Kiel did interviewed some of the same
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: witnesses and other witnesses and found this pattern of poltergeist
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: phenomena occurring. We tell you know, I mentioned, we mentioned
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Linda Sigmund earlier. She and her boyfriend had missing time
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: a couple hours. Yes, and there's another case mentioned in
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: the mock band prophecies. He's just mentioned as a town official.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: He was a banker. He heard something out of his
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: in the front of his house. He went out and
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: he saw this thing standing on his lawn and he
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: went into a trance or at least he lost ten
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: or twenty minutes and doesn't know what happened. So, whatever
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: this thing was, and even Keel thought, you know, he's
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: bought it to some really weird footprints around the old
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Norse power plant that he thought might be attributed to Mothman.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: But you know, it seemed to be paraphysical, perhaps partially physical,
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: more partly more ethereal. But you know, and it didn't
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: always flap its wings when it took off. It was
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: just it just presented a paradox all around.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: It's just it's it's so fascinating how all these things are,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: you know, where people like the one that because I
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: didn't know about that encounter with the missionaries where it
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: manifested in the room. They leave to go to a
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: foreign country, they come back, and then they or they
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: realized it went over there. I can't remember exactly what
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: you said about the newspaper or they were like, wait,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: we saw that that is that is that is for
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: me like proof positive close enough for me that something something,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: something happened, something happened that people are grasping on. And
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: and it's very interesting how certain phenomenons happen around certain
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: places at certain times. But for for whatever reason, this
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: one seemed to happen before the bridge collapse that connected.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: I think it was right. So could you go into
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: that a little bit. There was also like prophetic dreams
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: and things like that. Wasn't her?
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, Mary Hyer who was the friend and reporter, friend
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: and colleague of John Keel's. She was a stringer for
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: the Athens Messenger. She wrote a column called where the
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Waters Mingled, because you have the Ohio and the canal
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: rivers come together. And she would report on UFO sidings,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: mothman sightings, men in black encounters, and she and John
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Keel and others would go away south of Point Pleasant
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: several miles to a kind of a desolate area called
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Gallopless Ferry, and they were there was a hill they
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: spent some time on and they see all the strange
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: lights going overhead. But she was one one of the ones.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: And she and there was another woman, uh, a missus
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Virginia Thomas, who also lived in the T and T area.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: She saw this thing. She said, it wasn't flying, it
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: was moving very quickly like a robot along the ground.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: It's almost like it's its feet weren't on the ground.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: So you know, she saw some version of Mothman, I guess.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: But both those women were having dreams of packages like
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Christmas packages floating in the river. And the uh, there's
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: a whole another, you know, the whole other aspect of
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: the of the Mothman story that a lot of people,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: you know, miss they talk about the UFO as Mothman,
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: that the men in black and and so forth, you know,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: missing time and even animal mutilations. But the the Mothman,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: the prophecies side is one that gets overlooked. And that
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: had to do with uh John Keel and that the
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: phenomenon wasn't just happening in the Ohio Valley. He lived
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: in Long Island and there's a lot of strange stuff
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: going on up there well. And the uh he was
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: in contact with several individuals. I think it may have
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: been as many as I don't know, dozens of them. Anyway,
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: he called them silent contact ease because they were they
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: believed they were in contact with some kind of intelligence,
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: you know, the space brothers or whatever. I think a
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: lot of this was probably channeled information. I'm not I'm
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: not sure how. I'm not sure if they were actually
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: meeting people, you know.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: Because okay, okay, yeah, okay, but uh, and.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: There's there's a woman, Jay Perrow I'll mention in a minute.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: But they were.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: They were receiving uh prophecies, and some of them would
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: come true, like uh, plane crashes and so forth.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: Have you seen the film The Mothmand Prophecies? Okay?
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: No, John Keele actually liked the screenplay, even though they
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: kind of told their own story with the book. I
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: actually interviewed the screenwriter, Richard had them and who also
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: met Keel. But anyway, they would get these specific predictions
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: and often they would come true, but sometimes they would
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: be given these bizarre quests. There was one point, and
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: John Keel was buying into some of this too for
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: a while. But there was something about a crucifix that
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: was supposed to be hidden somewhere in Brooklyn, and if
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: they were to be found, it would be there could
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: be peace and prosperity, it would be something very beneficial
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: for the planet.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: So people would be giving.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: These crazy quests that came to nothing, and sometimes some
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: of the predictions would be wrong. I'll give you a
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: classic example that actually happened before all this, Back in
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: the mid to late fifties, there was a professor named
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Charles Lawhead, I believe, in the University of Michigan. He
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: was in contact with a medium that was supposed to
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: be getting messages from the space Brothers, and they were
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: getting predictions that were coming true. And then came the
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: big one. The world's going to end on December twenty first,
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: nineteen fifty seven. Gather everybody on the hilltop, the people,
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: the believers, will be taken up in a spaceship. And
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: of course he publicizes that nothing happens, and that's the
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: end of his career at the University of Michigan. So
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: that's kind of in some ways, that's what was going
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: on here, But a lot of this call lest they
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: were talking about there was going to be a disaster
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: on the Ohio River, and Kila was getting more and
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: more paranoid. In fact, one of the chapters of the
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: mock Banned Prophecies, Chapter sixteen, is entitled Paranoias are Made,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: not Born and the uh again with some of the
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: predictions coming true. Uh he was freaking out. There was
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: a prediction that the pope was going to be knife
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: knife to death, and I think maybe it was Turkey
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: and and anyway, there was an attack, but it was
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: averted and he was not harmed. And so so some
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: of these predictions were getting very close. And there was
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: even a prediction about Martin Luther King, but it was
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: in the wrong month. It was like three months different.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: And uh A Keel began to believe that there was
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: going to be If there was going to be a
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: disaster on the Ohio River, it was going to be
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: something to do with a one of the power plants there,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: one of the factories. Okay, he told he told Mary Hyer,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: he said, don't mention this to anybody, because if something happens,
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: they're going to come after us. Because we had this
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: fore knowledge. So but they were all blindsided about the bridge.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: And the bridge was built in nineteen twenty eight. It
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: was pretty rickety. I talked to people that crossed it
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: back in those days. So but then again these from
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: several different of these silent contacts did not know each other.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: They started talking about there was going to be something
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: called an e M effect, you know, but with no explanation.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: And then they said, oh, it's going to be happened
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: on December fifteenth, nineteen sixty seven. Oh, and then it's
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: going to be the precise moment when President Johnson lights
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: the lights on the Christmas tree on the White House lawn.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: So by this time Mkiel admits that he was he
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: bought this hook line and sinker. He's up in his
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: New York apartment. He's got jugs of water up there.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: He's ready for three days of darkness and all the
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: stuff that's supposed to happen. And then Johnson lights the
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Christmas tree. Nothing happens. And then moments later there's a
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: bulletin that comes over the TV that a bridge collapsed
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: between Ohio and West Virginia.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: And Keel was dumbfounded. He was shocked.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: He thought, my god, whatever this source, this intelligence was
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: knew something was going to happen. But like the trickster phenomena,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: it was it was like misdirection. Nobody could could avoid
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: this because it was it was nonsense. You know that
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: this em effect didn't mean anything. And so, uh that
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: was that was just just bizarre. And then you know,
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: the Christmas packages floating on the river started to make sense.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: That's what was what Linda Seguin, she was telling me
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: she was having dreams about seeing the floating on the river. Yes, exactly.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: So yeah, but that's it's just it's uh, it's amazing.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: It's an amazing book, but I have to tell people. Uh.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: John Keel wrote it several years after the events. He
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: couldn't get anybody interested at the time, and uh, he
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: actually grew to not even want to talk about the Mothman.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: He was done with it. And then either editor or
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: publisher said, okay, it's John, it's time to write a
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: book on the Mothman. And so this is several years
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: after the event. So he got his notes together and
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: everything and put together a book which became The Mothman Prophecies.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: And then they cut out half of.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: It, but he preserved about two thirds of that in
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: his next book called The Eighth Tower. Now there's something
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: let me tell you, an incident and then sort of
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: an epiphany he had later. One of the principles in
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: this he called Jay Perow. She was a from Long Island.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: She was a news broadcaster on WBAB, I think, and
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: she was dealing with a lot of the paranormal phenomena
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: up there around a place called Mount Misery on Long Island.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of stuff going around up there, and
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: she was involved with a lot of these silent contactees
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: along with John Keel, and she was supposedly being contacted
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: by men in black, and one of them was called
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: mister Apple Apol And if you look at if you
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: see the movie, some of the dialogue and the stuff
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: going on in the movie is injured cold. That's a
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: whole nother another side to all this, But a lot
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: of it was from this supposedly this mister Apple that
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: drove around in a black Cadillac with a dashboard all
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: lit up with lights and everything. So we don't know,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: you know, Kiel wondered about, you know, is she is
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: she telling the truth? Is she putting me on, and
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: then he would think, you know, she she knows things
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: she couldn't possibly know because Keel kept his research close
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: to his vest, so he realized something was going on.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: So he took her out to Mount Misery one time
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: and put her under hypnosis to see if he could
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: just get any any you know, tangible information. And then
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden, this mister Apple shows up, I mean,
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: is channeling through her, and he's he's freaking out, you know,
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: so this deep voice is coming through her and he uh,
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: you know, and in this you know, like in many
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: of these cases, these entities are really pretty disappointing. I mean,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: if you're looking for some kind of you know, great
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: wisdom or or guidance or whatever.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: Mister Apple wanted to.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: Know about, uh, Bobby Kennedy and Marilyn Monroe and what
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: the relationship was all about. And Kiel writes, he says,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: I wasn't interested in gossip. I was trying to actually
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: determined information. So in later years in in the UH
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: in the Eighth Tower, he actually says, you know, I'm
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: embarrassed that when I uh uh talked to some of
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: these entities through these people that you know, he realized
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: later that these things were deceptive. Uh, you know, they
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: were they were kind of like the trickster phenomena. Uh,
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: and he kind of he just kind of rejected it
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: because there was a point in time. There's there are
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: two books that have been published with information coming from
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: John Keel dot com. A gentleman named Doug Skinner has
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: done a great job of preserving a lot of this stuff.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: There are two books called The Big The Big Breakthrough
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: in the Big Blackout, and that deals a lot with
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: this time in Long Island when all these messages are
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: coming through from these different silent contact these and it
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: was a time when when Kiel was giving some credence
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: to it. But you know, later on he thought, well,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: this is just more deception.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of things like that. There's so
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: many there's so many things. I mean, Patterson Gamlin film
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: is the one that just fascinates me to no end.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. It seems like the
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: channel that I've created, a lot of people who are
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: seeing cryptids are stepping forward, and the frequency in which
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: they're seeing them. I don't know if they're on the
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: increase or people are just more open about talking about it.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: The you know, I've had NK. Davis on who kind
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: of breaks it down, and you know shows like the
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: braids and the hair and stuff like that. There's so
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: many The reason I'm fascinating and it is because I
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: think it's a human nature to want to know the unknown, right,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: And there's so many little twist and turns and like
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: it's like kind of a maze. But sometimes you get
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: an overview. Sometimes you think it's what you're talking about,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: and then there's another little piece that you didn't expect
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: that fits in with something later. It's it's just so fascinating.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: And this whole thing that happened in nineteen sixty seven,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: sixty six and sixty seven and in point pleasant is
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: just one of one of many stories.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: And there's another as of a side. I discovered a book.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Are you familiar with Colin Wilson, the great British researcher.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: No.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: I wrote Mysteries and the Occult And anyway, he's very,
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: very worth the checking into. He corresponded with with John Keale.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: They wrote a great book called Alien Dawn. Well, he
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: mentioned a researcher named Joe Fisher, and Joe Fisher wrote
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: a book called Hungry Ghosts and it was reprinted about
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: ten years later as The Siren Call to the Hungry
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: Ghost with an additional chapter, and in there this kind
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: of parallels to Silent Contact.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: Eastuff.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: He was he and others are working through a medium,
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to again condense this, and they were
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: there was a supposedly a dead a dead guy named
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Russell that was kind of ushering in all these other
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: deceased people. And so they were supposedly contacting talking to
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: people that were World War Two pilots that had died.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: And there was a woman I.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Can't think of what her name was, but from Greece.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: It supposedly was connected to Joe through various incarnations. And
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: he's really buying into this, and he's actually kind of
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: falling in this, in love with this disembodied entity. And
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: so he's getting all this information over a few years
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: and he's determined to prove it's true. So he makes
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: the journey to England and Greece and he's he's tracking
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: down all this and he found very much the same
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: thing Keel did. Some of the stuff was spot on, you,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: stuff that people couldn't know. It was just like you know,
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: absolutely true and somewhat was absolute nonsense, and he was
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: just really disappointed. He and so he would come back
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: and confront these entities through this medium and they would
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: blame him and they say, well, you made the mistake. Yeah,
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: it was just crazy, and they were trying to undermine.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: There was another man that was like like Joe was,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: excuse me, was making contact through this medium and the
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: the the the entities or whatever they were actually were
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: We're trying to uh tell him that his wife was
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: it was undermining him. It was no good for him,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: and he had to leave her. And so finally he
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: separated from that. Joe didn't know why at first, but
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: they compared notes later around and found out that again
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: there was this very negative aspect, this sort of trickster
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: or uh you know, almost monsters from the ID or
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: Forbidden Planet.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking more like you know the ego, super ego,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: you know, like of the ego. Right, that's interesting.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: Have you ever seen the film Forbidden Planet?
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: No a lot, a big not a big movie. Guy, man,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: I just love I love it. I love conversation.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: That's what I Well, they had this great concept. I mean,
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: it's it's extremely well done at fifties but well produced.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Leslie Neilson of all Things as the is the head captain.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: Of Naked Gun.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and an airplane, right, but he didn't say and
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: don't call me Shirley. So I just watched that again recently.
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: What a great movie.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: But he it's it's very well done. But the MacGuffin.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: The thing is they land on this planet. Walter Pigeon
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: is there with his beautiful daughter. Oh, come on, Honey,
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: West and Francis and uh, but there's this advanced civilization
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: that was completely wiped out. But all their technology and
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: their their cities are there. But they don't know why
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: they were wiped out. But they had developed this device
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: where you could turn thoughts consciousness into physical matter. They
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: could create things. What they forgot about was the dark
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: side of consciousness, the ID, and that's what happened. Monsters
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: from their It came up and destroyed them. And of
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: course that almost destroys the good guys in this movie.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: So I'd always love that anthology and analogy that uh,
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: you know, there's something and again kiel uh found something
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: very Uh it's almost like we co create some of
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: this stuff. Uh, some of this comes out of our
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: own belief system, you know, like like Carl Jung who
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: wrote the book Flying Saucers, a myth of things seen
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: in the sky. He did not think people were hallucinating,
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: but he thought they might be projecting some of these things.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Now that doesn't you know, that doesn't explain everything. I mean,
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: there's certain is there is a certain physicality, too much
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: of this. But like you say, you know, you you
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: start off on one path and you end up on
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: so many others.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's very interesting that it's like a lot
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: of things like the dog man phenomenon. For you know,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: five six years ago, you didn't even you never even
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: heard of it, and now it seems to be on
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: par with, not quite on par with the amount of
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: bigfoot sightings people are seeing. It's is a I can't
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: think of the wording right now, but if you if you,
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: if you're think it enough and you think about it
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: enough that you can actually that he actually creates it.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: I've heard of that before, like a tulipa exactly. That's
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: exactly the word I'm looking for. See, that's why I
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: got you on here to help me out. I don't
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: know all the word is I'm I'm just curious about
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: all these things. This is, you know, what what is
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: this like? So if you had to take a you know,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: a guestimation or an educated guess at what the moth
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: Man is and or was, what would you say that is?
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: You know, I've felt told the story a few times.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: I usually when people ask me that, I go through
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: the what what we what we just did with what
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: people experienced, they saw and so forth. One time I
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: blurted out, mothman is an elemental, and I said, don't
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: ask me what an elemental is. But uh, you know,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: the if you look at the the beliefs in in
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: in Leopards, the fairies, the elementals. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle,
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: who we know as the author of Sherlock Holmes. He
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: was a paranormal investigator of his time and one of
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: the books he wrote was called The Coming of the Fairies.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: He firmly believed that these that they were real, but
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: he wrote something that sounded like John Keel. He wrote
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: he said, the appearance of the fairies is largely dependent
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: on the person viewing them, suggesting that they might not
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: have an absolute core expression of themselves, but they are
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: seen or manifest depending on our belief system or the
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: people watching them. I think a lot of what is
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: going on here is probably similar.
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: But you know, I.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: Started out back in the sixties. I was an et
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: guy man, and you weren't going to break me of that.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: They're coming from other planets. They're landing. We got landing marks,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: you know. They're the collecting soil samples. Once in a while,
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: they'll give us a ride, you know. And then later
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: on we found out they were giving us on the
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: scheduled medical examinations with and no prescriptions either.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Right, so you can take the pharmacy.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: I was solid there, and then I read John Keel's
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: book Strange Creatures from Time and Space. It's been retitled
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: The Complete Guide to Mysterious Beings. The only difference is
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: there's a updated two thousand and two forward when it
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: was actually published in nineteen seventy. But he covers all
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: kinds of cryptids, mothman, men in black. I mean, it's
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: I'm reading it again. It's really really a fascinating book.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: But he that's when he first proposes the ideas idea
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: of window areas, which people call portals or vortexas vortices, right,
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: and so that kind of actually that book kind of
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: will ease you into Operation Trojan Horse. I wouldn't read
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: Trojan Horse at first because I knew it was going
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: to mess me up, because I look, John Keel, I'm
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: an et guy. I don't want to be connect everything together?
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: What am I?
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: What are you trying to do to me? And so, uh,
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: you know I had to take that pass. So I
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: do firmly believe. I mean, look, you've got that these
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: things seem to they manifest a certain way. Keel thought
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: in some cases that the strange meandering lights where they
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: were objectively real, but they would people would see them,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: and they would be sort of programmed. They would some
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: would see a hairy, shambling biped others would see a
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: giant triangle in the sky. And maybe they were they
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: were confabulations, they were they weren't real. He thought some
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: of the men in Black Encounters might be hallucinatory, not hallucinations,
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: but but something else. But if you go back, you
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: know in older times, those those moving lights, uh, there
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: were even times when people thought they were witches riding
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: on their blooms carrying their lanterns. And then the course
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: fairy lights in world War two, the Foo fighters the
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: strange lights to follow the planes, and in each side
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: thought it was some kind of a super weapon of
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: the of the other guy. So these things, you know,
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: we we they and the even the this the airships
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: of the of eighteen ninety seven and other time periods
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: sometimes people were only seeing a light in the sky
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: and they were assuming it was part of one of
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: these big airships. So there is there's something to the uh,
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: the idea that these things are that we co create,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: or they're temporal. Kell used the term transmographication, like temporarily
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: I know, great word, right, I've heard like temporary manifestations.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: And he would use the term ultra terrestrial because he
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: wanted to get away from the idea that these things
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: might all might simply be extraterrestrial. He thought they were
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: a natural condition of the planet. But I've also come
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: to believe you know, if you I don't know if
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: you're familiar with Albert Rosalez's database.
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: He's written.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: He's published a lot of it in about fifteen books
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: called Humanoids the Others amongst Us, And the first book
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: starts with onead and the closer you get to twenty fifteen,
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: the shorter period of time that he has collected these
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: humanoid reports. And wow, if you read through this database,
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: a lot of them could be a very kind of
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Kilian kind of And I'm going to mention Jacques Valet again.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: He wrote a book called Passport to Magonia where he
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: looked at various traditions of folklore and compared them to
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: some modern day UFO experiences. I mean people that encountered
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: the fairies. We're having missing time, I mean whished away
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: to underground kingdoms or whatever, and like like we have
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: missing time now. So but some of Rosales's some of
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: these encounters do seem to be very physical during nuts
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: and bulls. So as much as I and I've been
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: on both sides, but it seems that some are absolutely
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: physical and are coming from elsewhere, other dimensions or whatever,
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: and others do seem to be more like like he'll
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: talked about paranormal mimicry that we were. And let me
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: give you another kind of an example. There are some
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: bigfoot reports that they look very flesh and blood leave footprints.
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: Now, even some of those.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: Get a little bit weird, a little wronkey. But but
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: then you have the ones that stan Gordon investigated seventy
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: three seventy four and its books Silent Invasion. There was
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: a wave of UFOs landings and these really bizarre bigfoot reports,
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: green glowing eyes, that some of them would disappear in
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: a flash of light if they were shot at point blank.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: So it's almost like maybe you've got the flesh and
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: blood ones that are real physical animals, uh, and then
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: you've got this bizarre counterfeit, And that seems like there
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: may be some kind of a duality. I mean, if
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: we follow the reports and listen to the experiencers, you know,
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: we all have. I had my preconceived ideas about what
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: was going on. I still have to fight that sometimes, yes,
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: But you know, it does seem like there's some kind
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: of duality, which is maddening because if that's true, how
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: the hell do we separate the two vast categories which
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: ones are and which ones are actually physically real?
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: It would be very difficult to quantify in any type
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: of like you know, third person perspective to a scientific lens.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: But what you're talking about reminds me is like I
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: enjoyed like psychedelic concepts and phenomenon and ideas too, and
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: it could be people who have a shared psychedelic experience.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: They'll take something like a mushroom and they will both
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: see the same things. And there will also be times
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: where they'll see two different things. And there'll also be
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: people who will take it and we'll see a demonic creature,
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: and it'll be somebody who's a little more Eastern mysticism,
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: like will see something like Buddha or see something beautiful.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: So it is definitely a part of it, and I
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: think I think there's a thread that needs to be pulled.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: That not mean many people are going between you know,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: these the phenomenon and which you're speaking of and psychedelics themselves,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: because they also come from the planet. And if you
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: speak to people or if you listen to you know,
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: philosophers or astronauts, they call them like got astronsks what
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: they call them. Uh can I think it was, but
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: his name is Terrence McKenna, or if you talk to it,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: or his brother Dennis Mechano or even Dennis Leary and
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: things of this nature tune in turnout and all that.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: You know, there's so many weird things that connect with
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: that too, And that's just a substance that grows naturally
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: on the planet that you can take and also experience aliens,
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: and you know, you can take like ayahuasca and see
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: like ufo is made of feathers, and there's abductions and
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: there's so many strange phenomena that that I do think
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: have an overlap.
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: And and Keel talk about in situations where a group
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: of people would see a ufo and uh and some
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: would not see it. You know, they'd be pointing to
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: us up there, I can't see. Yeah, others would see
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: like you said something different, so that it's not you know,
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: they they're not always objectively real or or if they are,
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: you know, we people see things differently.
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: I'ven't been.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: I did a at the Mothman Festival, which it's every
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: third week in in September.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: By the way, I was gonna ask you at the end, well,
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: go ahead, that's fine.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: And you know we uh we have a hay ride
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: in the T and T area on Saturday night. That's
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: one of the few things you're gonna buy a ticket for.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: The whole thing is free, except when you get into
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: the Mothman Museum, which is super crowded during the festival.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: You have to come off season as well. You know
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: you have to do both, but uh, you know, we
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: uh I go in ahead of time and set up
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: a bunch of giant uh uh spider webs and creepy
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: crawleys and light up their eyes, and my buddies fly
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: the Mothman down a wire. The men in black try
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: to prevent you from going in with bullhorns and everything,
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: and it's it's in that the heart of the T
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: and T area, this creepy area.
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: So uh, that's that's always a lot of fun. But uh,
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: It's uh, it's something it's it's really crowded, but it's
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: something worth checking out.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna ask you all those questions and
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: you already answered for me before I was gonna like,
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: you know, kind of like wind down the episode. But
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: uh yeah, there's a there's a there's there's so there's
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: still uh you know, threads to be pulled, still, stories
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: to be unpacked, still people to even talk to. Have
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: there been any here's a good question, I suppose has
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: there any been any recent or relatively recent like sightings
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: of the Mothman or that resembles the Man?
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: I'm not really sure.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: Jeff Wansley has collected gets a report every once in
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: a while over the past several decades. So something keeps
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: showing up. The thing is that if if Keel was
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: onto something, are we sure, you know, if we say
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: it's the mothman, if this thing, maybe this this force
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: is intelligence or or whatever it is. Maybe it just
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: manifests differently sometimes, but it's the same thing. People will say,
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: you know, will attribute Mothman to all kinds of wing
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: creature sightings around the world. In the book The Mothman Prophecies,
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: he has h chapters called the Flutter of Black Wings,
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: I think, and it goes through any of bizarre encounters
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: with thunderbirds and all kinds of strange flying creatures. And
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: you know, there was the Houston batman in the fifties
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: where it looked like some guy was wearing a suit.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: There was the Wisconsin manbat in the early two thousands.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: I think Linda Godfrey, who investigated the many of the
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: dog man reports, reported on that our father and son
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: saw some big, ugly bat like creature and that brushed
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: against the window in their car when they were driving,
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: and later on they became very ill. So maybe maybe
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: some of these things are. There was a great an
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: Anglican priest and an exorcist who teamed up with Ted
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: Holliday who was investigating the Locked Nest Monster and supposedly
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: tried to exercise NeSSI but Omend called it the Phantom Menagerie,
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: which is a good name for it. It's almost like these
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: things come out of I don't know what they're coming
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: out of, some kind of cosmic soup or something like that.
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: But so there's.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: You know, the people are experiencing all kinds of bizarre
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: and you know, we get these sort of one or
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: two off cryptids or whatever they are. The Dover Demon
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: in the sixty yeah, was seen a couple of times,
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: this thing with a big head, skinny bodies climbing along
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: the stone wall. It almost looked like a pale, emaciated
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: gray with no spaceship.
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: You had the Loveland frog Man, not too far for
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: you know, a few hours from where I live in
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: Point Pleasant. It came out of the Little Miami River
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: a couple of times back in the seventies. Seventy two,
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: I think a couple of police officers saw this thing
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: something that was seen in fifty five. And it even
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: goes back to There are some rumors the Native Americans
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: told the French people back years ago of something there,
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: and that guy's got his own festival man. He shows
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: up twice, he gets a festival mothman had to really
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: work at it, you know. But uh, and then you
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: had something called the Anfield Horror. Yes, seventies three legs,
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: pink glowing eyes, yeah, and in arms protruding out of
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: its chest. A couple of people saw that. So what
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: what is that?
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's it's all the fascination And I don't know, man,
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: it's for me. I just enjoy the ride. I enjoy
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: the ride of existence and these oddities, these blips in
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: the matrix, if you will, if you will, seem to
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: seem do you think they're do you think they're more
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: common now or do you think that it's just what
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: shows like myself and many many others that are just
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: more out there or people are not so you know,
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: like you know, withheld and speaking about them because of
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: the you know, the ramifications of doing so.
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: It could be that it's uh, you know, it's all
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: over the place now. I mean, people will still call
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: you crazy, but the there's been so many, you know,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: ever since the film came out of the Mothman prophecies,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: A Mothman, you know, is all over the place, and
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: with efforts of Jeff Walmsley who runs a museum, and
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: the co founder at the festival, Denny Bellamy, who's the
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: local uh I forget it's actually actual title, but he's
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: the tourist guy, runs a tourist bureau there. And and
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: also Charles Humphreys has done a great job and getting
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: people and getting things like the statue and the Amphitheater
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: funding for that. They I remember Denny was saying one
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: time about how many documentaries they've been involved with. I mean,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: just countless. So it's people have And I talked to
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: a lady one time out in front of the museum,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: and she was a local. She said, you know, back
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: in the old days, if you experienced something like that,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: you just kept your mouth shut. Yep, you didn't tell anybody.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: And so I think, you know, part of it is
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: that it's probably people have been experiencing these crazy things
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: forever and everywhere. It's just that maybe it is a
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: little easier to uh yeah, to tell somebody.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: You know, you're you're not alone.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: So much anymore, Right, you don't feel like it's so crazy.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: I mean people people call me crazy, and I haven't.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen I've seen the hat man and
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: I've also seen I've had Boulder Guy's activity when I
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: was young, people in the channel not so, I've had
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: a few things happened. So it definitely sparked me to
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: go down this road. But what so you help out
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: the museum? Do people reach out to you? Is there
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: a place that people can reach out to you?
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my name is Steve Wore. Just, uh, you can
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: find me on Facebook. Just if you type in my
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: name and point pleasant, you'll probably find me. You usually
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: find me there on on Saturdays, Uh, you know, answer
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: questions and so forth, and I will oftentimes I'll uh
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: the statue is right next to the museum, so I
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: will drift out there and I can take the picture
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: of of the entire family. You know, they don't have
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: to send the black sheep of the family out to
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: take the picture, which is kind of nice.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: The person is like, why am I here? That's the
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: one always makes the pictures.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: And there's a lot to see in town.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: I mean there's the bridge that collapsed in December fifteenth
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: and nineteen sixty seven. It was on Sixth Street, just
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: two blocks north of the museum. There's a mural, a
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: memorial and the forty six names of the people that
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: died are embedded on the sidewalk. There's a lot of
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: American history there. Chief Constock is right near there too,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: and you can even get directions to the Dreaded Team
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: t area. You can stop there. You can get into
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: some of the old bunkers, and if you really want
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: to chest your metal, go out there at night and
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: see how you fare.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: Steve Ward, it's been mister Steve Woard. Excuse me, excuse Steve.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: I'll say, Steve, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: You're a wealth of knowledge, and I think that Point
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: Pleasant as well as well as many other researchers, are
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: glad that you exist and that you're here on our
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: side trying to figure out what all this is. Man,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: it's been a pleasure. Man.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: Well, thank you, Tom.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: I enjoyed it, and I'll come back anytime.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: Anytime, Man, anytime, anytime, my friend. So remember, guys, go
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: out and check it out. Go out to Point Pleasant
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: if you want to learn about you know, the mof Man.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: Hopefully this helped you out a little bit, like I
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: learned a lot. There's so many names. I gotta go
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: down and look into and remember, guys, we are the eye,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: we are aware, and I love you all. If you
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: have been watching the Eye of Jupiter podcast, don't forget
• 1:03:38
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• 1:03:39
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• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: we are the Eye. We are aware.