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Honorée Corder on Why There is No Such Thing as Writer’s Block · The Daily Writer

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Daily Writer Podcast, where we bring you tips and inspiration each day to help you build habits for writing success.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: For more resources, including your free Daily Writer Starter kit, visit DailyWriterLife.com.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: As a ghostwriter and an author coach, I talk to a lot of writers.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: And whether somebody has already written a book or they're considering writing their first book, I hear something like these phrases all the time.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm stuck, I don't know what to write about, or I don't know how to get started.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about you, but you've probably heard those or maybe even you've said those before.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: And the deal is, whenever you get stuck in the writer's vortex, as I like to call it, it can feel really debilitating with no clear way of escape.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Now, thankfully, my guest today has a fantastic brand new resource to help both aspiring and seasoned authors alike.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Her name is Honore Corter, and this past Monday she released her new book called There is No Such Thing as Writer's Block, You Can Unleash Your Inner Prolific Writer.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: What a great title, by the way.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now you've probably heard Honore on the podcast before, and she's made multiple appearances here for good reason, because she's not only a good friend, but she's also my business coach and the leader of the Empire Builder's Mastermind, which has been an awesome resource for me the last couple of years.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Honore is the author of dozens of books, including You Must Write a Book, You Must Market Your Book, The Prosperous Writers Book Series, The Best Selling Book Formula, The Successful Single Mom Book Series, and many, many more.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: In today's episode, we do a deep dive into several topics related to Writer's Block.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about what it means to be a professional writer, how to remove the blocks holding you back, writing to the container of the book, and you'll know what we mean when you listen to the episode by that, surrounding yourself with other writers, and much more.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: You can grab there's no such thing as writer's block on Amazon, and I also recommend signing up for Honore's extremely helpful daily email list, which you can do at honorecorder.com.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And when you visit her site, honorequarter.com, you can sign up for the list, but also you can look at all the cool books that she has available: courses, resources, programs, all kinds of really, really good stuff for writers, business leaders, and entrepreneurs.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now, as kind of an added bonus today, I also want to let you know that I have five print copies of There's No Such Thing as Writer's Block available to give away.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the way that you can grab one of these is you can go to Apple Podcast and leave a review for this show called the Daily Writer.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, you can leave a review of this podcast on Apple Podcasts, and the first five people to do that will receive a print copy of There's No Such Thing as Writer's Block.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty cool, huh?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: All you've got to do is go to Apple Podcasts, leave a review, take a screenshot of that review, and email it to me at Kent at DailyWriterLife.com.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the first five people to do that again will get a free print copy of the book sent to you directly in the mail from yours truly.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: And super excited to do that.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think you're really going to enjoy this interview, and I highly recommend that you grab this book.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is a short book, but man, it's really, really powerful.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've been a writer for a long time and I really, really love this book.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I told Honore that I think this is like one of my top three favorite books of hers.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: And she's got well over 50, I think 60 some books at this point.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: And this is one of my top three.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: So this one is really, really good.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I highly recommend you grab one for yourself on Amazon.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a link in the show notes.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want a free copy, make sure and leave a review of this show on Apple Podcast, as I mentioned.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, without further ado, I want to get right to the conversation with Honore Corter.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Here we go.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Honore, so good to have you here.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Let's dive into uh your brand new book called There is No Such Thing as Writer's Block, which is a great title, by the way.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna dive into some themes from this book, and I love that you have kind of created a trilogy.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I've got I know you're not supposed to have pauses on a podcast, but I've got the first two.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you're considering this a trilogy, but for those who are watching the video of this, I've got the best-selling book formula and write your first nonfiction book.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: So this is gonna make a really cool looking trilogy sitting on my shelf, but I don't know if this is really a trilogy or if I'm just making this into one.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what it is, to be honest with you.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: I I think the writer's block book will fit into any any set of books.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think it will fit into the books that people read when they want to write a screenplay.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think they will fit into the set of books that people write when they want to write or they will want to read when they write fiction English.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: English is my first language.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Mine too, most days.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, yep.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it will fit into resources of writers who are columnists or bloggers, poets, songwriters.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I this isn't after Prosperity for Writers, I haven't really written anything that was just for writers.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, now you've got three, three of these short books, which I I love because I feel like you address kind of all the things, you know, sometimes you use that phrase, all the things.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you're addressing all the things that I think the vast majority of writers struggle with.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: And kind of in this this newer volume, there's no such thing as writer's block.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you're really bringing the hammer down on this thing that all of us feel like is keeping us sometimes from writing success, and you just like demolish it.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love to dive into some of the themes in this book.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_05: Sure.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Which is which is again, it's a short little book, and I love these short little books.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's been a lot of fun to course work with you on the better business books for clients.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I just love short books because you can read them fast and they're fun to carry around, and it's just just such a great concept.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I get pushback from aspiring authors about the size sometimes as an aside, right?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: As we're getting into this when you talk about loving short books, but I don't ever get pushback from a reader by saying, I wish this book covered something more, or I wish it was longer, or it took more time for the same amount of information.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: And if I can help aspiring authors or authors connect their writing to the right amount of words for anything that they're writing, I think they'll have greater success.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: So you're talking about the Better Business Book, which is something that we're collaborating on.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's a product that's about a 15,000-word book, which is the size of the best-selling book form.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's a quick read and people feel like they can read it, they can read it, and then they take action on it.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: And ultimately, regardless of what you're writing, don't you want someone to be moved into action from something that you are writing and not feel like it has to take an epic amount of time in order to consume the content?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Now that's not that's not readers, that's not um fiction.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm always really glad when a book is fantastic and it's long because I'm a little sad when it's over.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: But when it comes to nonfiction, I'm like, just drill it down.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Just give me the essence of what I need to know to get where I want to go faster or avoid pain so I can get where I want to go faster.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: Just my two cents on that.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is funny when you work with traditional publishers, you know, and and I totally get why they do this, but they, you know, their business model depends on mostly having books that are full length, you know, 50, 60,000 awards, sometimes longer than that, because you have to kind of justify the price.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't have the income coming in from the books, you can't support your publishing business.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just it's just kind of funny that a lot of times they start out with a word count.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're the author or if you're the ghostwriter working with an author, you have to kind of concoct ways to fill that word count.
• 7:58
  unknown: Yeah.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Which a good writer can do very easily.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's not actually really difficult to do.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's funny because it almost seems like a backwards way of putting a book together in some ways.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: It I think it is.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think that there will be a shift in that at some point.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure when it will be.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: It could be a hundred years from now.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: If you start only with a number, it's like saying, How much do I charge for something?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: And someone says, Well, it took me an hour, and this is what I charge for an hour.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: When in EBM we talk about charging for your education, your experience, your knowledge, your connections, and that's what people are paying for access to.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: They're not paying for access to your hour, they're paying for access to all the things.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: And access to all the things costs more than access to an hour.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because no one would pay me for an hour of um building something, right?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because I but they would might pay my husband and they would might pay me to be his lovely assistant, but they wouldn't pay me for the end result.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: But they would pay you for words that you can write.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: And if you were paid by the hour, you might not make that much money because as a fast professional writer, you don't want to charge for your time, you want to charge for your expertise.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that books have been put together in a backwards way because there's the perception that bigger is better, bigger book is better.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that size matters and sometimes smaller is better, especially in the case of a book, really gets you where you want to go, and you can get your reader to take action regardless of what they've read.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely, absolutely.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And in some ways, a longer book, I think you get kind of bogged down in it.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes people lose interest because we all have shorter attention spans these days, I think.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of benefits to a short book.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's dive into the book.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: See, this is the problem with having you on my podcast, is that I can talk to you about tons of different things and I get sidetracked, and you know, these conversations could be 14 hours.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: And that's all right.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Let's assume that the people are listening because they want to and they can fast forward or I think so.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think yeah.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: So let's I've got a few questions here uh about the book.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's no such thing as writer's block.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: My first question is why did you write this book in particular?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Of all the topics that you could have addressed for writers, what is it about this one topic on writer's block that you felt was so urgent and important that you wanted to do a book about it?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was in the queue, Kent.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: It was one of the books that I had just decided at some point I wanted to write, and I just put it on the schedule.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: So there was no magic to the timing.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: The reason I decided to write the book, though, is I think what you're asking, and I would bet we have this in common, that you are asked a lot, do you ever have writer's block?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: Do you believe in writer's block?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: On podcasts that you're a guest on.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: I've been asked that question hundreds of times, hundreds of times, not on podcasts, but in including podcasts.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: Even when I'm talking to someone at a rotary meeting or in when I'm networking with someone, they'll say, you know, do you ever have writer's block?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: What is that like for you?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: How do you not have writer's block?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it occurred to me that I'm I live my life with uh listening to the nudges.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a deal with the man upstairs.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, please send me three feathers before you send the brick, before you send the truck.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I considered this question a feather that I just kept getting.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think there's such thing as writer's block?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: Is there such a thing as writer's block?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have writer's block?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: How do you deal with writer's block?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: What do you suggest for people who experience writer's block?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're asked the same question enough times, another one I get is how do you write so prolifically?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: And when I get that question enough times, I think that there must be so many more people that have that question.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I really just want to help.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: I really just write as easily as I breathe.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that frustrates some people because they don't know.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, but how?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: How do you do that?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what's so frustrating for me is when someone can do something and I'm not able to duplicate the results.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: I get frustrated and I just want them to tell me, do this, don't do this.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need the story, I don't need all the stuff around it.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: I just need the one, two, three result formula.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what this book is from me to writers, is a gift for how to write as easily as they breathe, whenever and wherever they want to.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, that is so true because sometimes readers come to a book.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like if you need a hammer and you walk into Home Depot, and sometimes you just want the guy to go, here's where the hammers are, here's the hammer, and you just want to get it and go about your business.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes, as authors, what we do is like, well, let me tell you the story of this hammer, and let me show you 15 different brands, and and let me tell you all the cool colors this hammer comes in, and you know, all the different packages of tools, and they're like, I just want a hammer.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: So there's something about just giving people what they really need right then.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: They've got a pain point, and that's again, that's what I love about these short books.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm I'm hammering on this point today for some reason.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: But it's just the yeah, oh, I didn't even think about it.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: That was a good pun.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_05: That was great.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_05: Well done.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there is something to just giving them something that they can use right then and there.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And gosh, you've really hit a major pain point for writers, I think, with this.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right, yeah.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think even some prolific writers sometimes hit a dead end or they hit a corner and they're not quite sure how to get out of it.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I was coming at it from the place of first of all, no judgment.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: There is no judgment if you believe writer's block and you have writer's block.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: There is no judgment.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's really a play on words.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Any well-titled book is gonna have people go, what?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, what?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, you didn't.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, you did not say that writer's block is not a thing.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: However, you know I'm coming at it from a place of love for all authors and writers.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's something, there's something important about having a controversial title.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that can really work to your advantage because it it makes people go, wait a minute.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think anytime you can engage people's emotions with just a book cover or a title, like that's always a good thing, right?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I engage people's emotions with my very first.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: Do you believe in writers blog posts on social media?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: And there was some there were some real prickly responses.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm right on it.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm right on it.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm on it, right?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I've I've touched a hot button.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: And the only way people are ever gonna get out of that emotion is to examine what's got them, what's gotten them so um uh I don't want to use the word triggered because that seems to have some kind of a connotation these days, but is there another word?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh maybe kind of tied up in knots or discombobulated, so is what we say in southern Missouri.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: If you're discombobulated, I'm not saying that's accurate by my title.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um it might be it, it might just give you an opportunity to go, huh?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Do I really want to believe in this or do I want to figure out what my personal process is for going around it?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Something you talk about in the book that I think is such a critical point, especially for those of us who we want to be profitable writers and we want to we want to take what we do seriously, is you talk about the importance of being a pro, of being a professional as a writer.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: And gosh, this point has been so helpful to me the last few years because the thing that helped me more than anything else in being more proficient and prolific as a writer was writing for clients, writing on a deadline, knowing I had something that was due.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And now that I'm, I think, probably a dozen books in or something like that in my ghostwriting career.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I can definitely say for sure that approaching your work as a pro and knowing you've got a deadline, or if you have client work, you've got to have this done by a certain time or whatever.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, that's been such an enormous help.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm wondering if you can expand on this concept of approaching your work like a pro and how that helps you beat writer's block.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I think there's a temptation for creatives, writers are creatives, to put the ability to be creative to write outside of themselves.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: So if you say I only write facing east on months ending in R, where I've eaten three peanut MMs, dark chocolate, and had 12 hours of sleep, you're limiting, and I'm being really ridiculous.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm being really ridiculous in that description, then you limit your ability to just do something on demand, which is what professionals do.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: As I as a as a resident of the South, there's a lot of football that goes on in the house here.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's always at least one game on Saturday, one game on Sunday.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I was thinking about the professional football players.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: They can't say, you know what, I just don't feel like footballing today.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: They're professionals that when they show up, they have to just show up in the best form possible, regardless of what's going on in them and around them.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not, I don't feel like throwing a football today, I don't feel like catching a football today, I don't feel like baking cakes today, I don't feel like delivering the mail today, I don't feel like performing today.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: And there's the saying the show must go on.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: And boy, do we know that, right?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: As people who serve communities and were showing up on Zoom to give presentations or run groups or those sorts of things.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: It does not matter on the dates when I have committed to do something, what is happening around me, unless I can, unless I actually cannot speak.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I might go to bed immediately thereafter or collapse immediately thereafter, but the show must go on.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a temptation to say, but I'm a creative and you know, I have to court the muse.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: And when the muse shows up, then I'm gonna be fine.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: But until then, I'm not gonna be fine.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a very dangerous place to be if you want to be a professional writer.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sure you understand that when you write a daily newsletter, the newsletter has to be published daily.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: When you publish a daily podcast, the podcast has to be published daily.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: When you run a writer's group and they meet every week at a certain time and you're leading the charge, there is no, I just didn't feel like it today.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: No, and professionals show up and they not only have the show-up factor, they also have the deliver factor.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: And they have also um the attributes of a professional that regardless of what's going on, they're just gonna stand and deliver, or in our case, sit and deliver.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: And they're gonna put the words up on the board, they're gonna record the video, they're gonna do the presentation, and it does not matter what was happening in the minutes before or in the minutes or hours after, in that moment, they're a professional.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you can set the expectation that you want to lean into that more, there is no such thing as perfection, although pretty close, right?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: We just don't have time to kind of figure things out.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: If you can step into that expectation that when the time comes, you are going to from somewhere summon what it is that you need to write, then you will be surprised that that intention and that determination is going to intersect with the the ability to do it.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how you think about this kind of stuff.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: The thing, the thing that has worked for me better than anything else is when I'm not feeling it, but I've got to show up in some kind of way.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and actually teaching in in college really helped me with this because there were a lot of days I just didn't feel like teaching.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't wasn't feeling the vibe, maybe it was difficult class or whatever.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And in high school, I was in a lot of plays.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: I came from kind of like a the band, choir, theater, geek kind of a background that was totally me in high school.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Still is me in some ways, I guess.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing that has been helpful to me is when I have to be on, but I'm not feeling it, I I just assume a role.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: I assume a persona, or I I sort of show up as I'm playing the role of Kent today, who is really engaged and feeling it.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not really, but I'm just playing a role.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that to me has been really helpful.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm curious how you manage that.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is there some kind of a switch that you turn on, or do you kind of step into a role in your head, or how does that work?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: I actually have a my whole morning process is all about that.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because I will tell you that that on most days ending in day, when I wake up, I'm like, oh, is it morning already?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then I remember, oh, it's morning, and I get to do all these things.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm always really positively anticipating at least one thing that's happening that day, even if I might be dreading something else that's happening.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm always excited about something.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I have engineered circumstances so that I'm, you know, powered by magic beans.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: Coffee and tea.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I also um read something that inspires me.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: I listen to something that inspires me, and I do something that gets my juices flowing.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you I'm a big worker outer.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I work out.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I get up and I have my morning routine, which is spiritual in nature, affirmations, visualization, reading, those sorts of things.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then I have an hour of my writing time.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then I go and I work out.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I have engineered, I don't even like to miss my morning out workouts because in the morning on the way to the gym, I listen to something very specific that gets me in the frame of mind that I'm ready to work out.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to phone it in.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm going to go all the way there, I'm going to get all the way there.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: Now, sometimes I'll listen to an audiobook while I'm at the gym.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I listen to music.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm a little lower in the vibration, my energy is like, oh man, it's Monday.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: That came on fast.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: That was not a very long weekend.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: I had other things going on this weekend.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: I did not get a chance to recharge.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: And this is right now as we're recording this.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like Monday came, Monday came in hot, Kent.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: It came in hot.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it almost always does.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: With a long list of things to do and a six-day work week this month this week, right?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: So this week I normally don't work on weekends.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: This week I have a cool thing on Saturday, but those things require people and energy.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: Normally I have two days of rest.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: So just from a contextual perspective, I have a very busy Monday through Friday and a busy Saturday, which is awesome.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: I this is I'm I'm not a bricklayer, right?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not I'm not out paving, making paved roads.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I consider myself incredibly black.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_05: But I feel the same.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: But on the way home from the gym, I have songs that are really in fun and inspiring.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've got my endorphins going, I've got my words under my belt, and I've got some music, and I'm ready.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's I'm I'm pretty dangerous to talk to between 8 and 8:30 if you're not a morning person, because I'm pretty fired up.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, and so then I just have my routine, and by the time it's 8:30, I don't know if I got enough sleep last night or not because I'm just so fired up and excited.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it doesn't matter.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: And what I get to do that I just get to do it.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: My husband is not a morning person, so I don't talk to him before like nine or nine thirty because it's really like, whoa, take it down, take it down to not right.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I just recognize that about myself, but I do that on purpose.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost like spinning up, you know, winding up a music box or something.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like I get myself all the way wound up so I'm excited for the day by doing things that really set that stage for me.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: And isn't that such a critical part of approaching your work as a professional?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Is that people who don't approach it as a professional depend on external circumstances to give you that drive and motivation, or I've got to have my coffee, or I hope ever I hope the weather's good, or I hope my spouse is in a good mood, or whatever it is, or I hope that I'm feeling inspired today, versus professionals who see it as their job to get themselves in the right mode.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you can do that under any circumstance.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it's my job to show up and to deliver.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you called me and you were like, okay, Henre, you're my mentor, you're my coach, I'm struggling with something, and I went yummy too.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: You go first, buddy, but I just you're done.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: I I just need to, yeah, let's commiserate.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, wait, what?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, there can be no commiserating.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: And ultimately, you have to you there's a there's a saying that says uh something about like don't let the storm get you down.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: And the answer is like, I am the storm.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, right.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: You can be influenced by the energy or you can influence the energy.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like it's my job wherever I'm showing up to bring the positive energy because I never know, I never never know what someone is going to bring.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, and I have to be ready to to either enter the one plus one equals three zone, right?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: Which is two great things coming together equal more than the sum of their parts individually, or I have to be a 10 if someone comes in at a six, right, right, and get them up to be a 10.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: Totally makes sense.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to be ready for anything.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then of course I have the time that I am away and recharging so that I can do that because I don't, you can't live in that state.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: At least I can't.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not able to live at a 10.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: 247 365.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: I have to power down and like plug in.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's like plugging in my iPhone.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like I get down to 20% and my little red lights, like, you better get it, get it back up there.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like an attitude where I feel like most people go through life and they they sort of let life happen to them.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: But what you're really talking about is the idea of we're going to happen to life.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm going to show up and, you know, like you like you said, I'm going to be the storm.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to be the whirlwind that makes other things happen.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: I expect I'm going to show up with an energy and with an attitude that makes things move.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I make mountains move rather than seeing all the mountains around me and just kind of going, well, I guess nothing fun is going to be possible today.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that kind of an Eeyore mentality.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I am, I am cause.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: I am not a fact.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: I am not at a fact.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not at the effect of something.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: I am cause.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: That is, that is to me, such a fundamental way of looking at life.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like I feel like for so long in my life, I just didn't have that attitude.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it took it took me a long time, and maybe it takes other people a long time too, to kind of wake up and go, oh, like you can actually cause things to happen in your life.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to just sort of be a victim of your circumstances or stay put in wherever you find yourself.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like that in itself is such a critical insight.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it is not taught, Kent.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, to be fair, it's to be fair.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: We are we are taught to do all the things we're taught to do.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: There, right?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: We're not taught to run our lives like businesses from a financial perspective, from a time perspective.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: So there are a lot of people that say, well, I don't want to donate my money, but I want to donate my time.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm thinking, I'll give you money every day and twice on Sunday, but not my time because my time is so valuable.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: And we're not taught to be cause.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: We're not taught to say, what is it that you want?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: And you really have to go for it.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: We really revere and admire people who figure that out.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: And go for it, but it is not in literature.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's not in textbooks.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's not in classrooms, generally speaking, at least not in any of the ones that I have found myself in.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not sure exactly when the first time was that I figured that out.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: But I do know that I have had various positive messages and reinforcement of when I have shown up and been on my game.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Where people have said, I don't know why I need to know you, but I need to know you.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: Now, sometimes the people that need to know you, just as a, you know, somebody needs to hear this.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why I feel compelled to say this.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: I almost feel compelled to not say it.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: But I will say that sometimes excellence attracts lack of excellence, also, right?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Iron sharpens iron and excellence sharpens excellence.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like I always want to make friends with people that I admire what they're doing.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: But there are times when some people who aren't that are attracted to you and you have to learn how to discern the difference.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Are you always able to tell immediately when that's the case?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: No, I wish I was.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm getting better.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm getting better all the time, but I don't always know who someone is when I first meet them.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty intuitive, but some people are good at hiding that.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't mean this to go down a rabbit hole of any kind, but I I'm really listening to what people say because people will tell you who they are and what they are when they're talking.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: So just really be a good listener.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: Be a good listener.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's really good.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a book idea.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: Not that you need more book ideas, but just send me some more book ideas because I only have one, two, three, seven on my list.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: So only seven.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna on the nonfiction side.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm on the nonfiction side.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure uh that you'll come up with something before I run another book.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just dedicating all of my books to you.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: And Kent Sanders gave me the idea for this book.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be written out of the will pretty soon.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, stop, stop talking.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Stop giving me those ideas.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get back to the conversation in just a moment, but first, a big thanks to today's sponsor, Vellum.
• 31:07
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• 31:11
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• 31:17
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• 31:26
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• 31:31
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• 31:34
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• 31:37
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• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's trivellum.com slash daily.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: And now back to the conversation.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: Something else I wanted to ask about.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I've got a lot of things in the book, uh, and we won't get to all these, and maybe at some point we need to have a round two on this because there's a lot of things that that are really tied to this idea of writer's block.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just a matter of do these things and then write.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of fear that comes into this and a lot of sense of identity and background and so much psychological and emotional stuff.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is kind of a granular thing that I'm really, really intrigued by.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't see many people doing this.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is in the book you talk about how whenever you're writing, you write in a template.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm taking kind of a hard ride in the conversation here.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: But but I think this is really an important thing where you talk about writing in a Microsoft Word template that is designed to kind of mimic what the final product will look like.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I would love to hear more about that because most people just get into a Google Doc or they just open up an eight and a half by 11 Microsoft Word document and they just start typing, but you are writing in a specific container that is kind of what the final product is going to be like.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: How does that actually affect your writing?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think it helps me to feel more organized that there's a method to the madness.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a mess, it's a message.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Having a template that I can say, well, this is where chapter one is, and this is the header for chapter one.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: Now there's Scrivener, which is this next level in terms of organization.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I suppose if I was able to make myself slow down long enough to learn yet another software program, I would probably really beneficiate benefit from it.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: I will not do that.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm too busy.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but sometimes when I get a manuscript from someone, it's just one long eight and a half by 11, yes, barely discernible paragraph returns, on and on and on and on and on.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: And my brain immediately says, no, nope, we can't, we we have to organize this.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to go in and create paragraph styles with a with white space in between the paragraphs and making the markers a little smaller just so that I can easily read it.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: There's a reason that books are formatted.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had someone actually make my original template for me and connect the headers to the table of contents so that I could update the table of contents and it would show this is what chapter one has for a title, this is what page it's on.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, none of that even remotely resembles the beautifully designed book that is sent to me by my designer, but I am able to see what who's who at the zoo, right?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: What's going on in the manuscript even as I'm writing it?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that to me gives me some kind of peace of mind.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now, uh there are some people, many who shall remain nameless because they might be able to hear me, that um look at a room and think that it's fine.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I look at the room and say, it's a mess.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: So whereas some people look at a manuscript that goes on and on and on, it's single spaced, eight and a half by eleven, wide margins, the whole thing.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: I look at that and it feels messy to me, and I want to clean it up so that I can give it to the next level of my brain, which is the strategy side.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really probably my problem, right?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm just gonna own it and say it's my type A, things need to be in their place.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: Personality.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: However, I do think that if it's a mess, it's harder to make heads or tails of it.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I ask about this because um year years ago I had an editor, um, she she didn't fight me on this.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it wasn't that kind of a thing.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: She just thought it was a little strange that I that this was a uh what was the book?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was a little short book, but I sent it.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I know what it was.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was my 18 words to live by book that came out a year or two ago.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I actually I wrote it in Scripture, but then when I went to do kind of the second draft, I did it in the five by seven format.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I might I formatted in Microsoft Word like that.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I did a font that I thought kind of mimicked what I wanted the book to look like.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: And writing it in that template or in that container was a massive help in breaking up the paragraphs, tightening up the pros.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think this principle is really, really important because you're kind of writing to the container as opposed to going to some random Google Docs or Microsoft Word thing where it's a big page and it doesn't really mimic the feel of what you're going for.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you're one of the few people that I have seen do this same thing also.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I think this could really help people conquer the writer's block because you're you're not coming to just a plain old Google Doc kind of a thing.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: I I for me it's helpful to visually imagine what it's going to look like as a book and to write in that.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: I like that you use the word container to write in that space.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's very helpful for me.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: It might be helpful for someone who is having a hard time saying, well, what is the book going to look like and how long is it gonna be?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: How many pages?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, is it going to be?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: It occurs to me there maybe there's a market out there for just selling Microsoft Word or or Google Doc book containers.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's already formatted to what it's gonna kind of look like.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'd buy those probably.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't I would stay out of Google Docs for the reasons that we've discussed.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: But um just having a template.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, in in publishing PhD, I provide a template for people that asks the questions that they need to ask themselves and and to really get oriented to the book so that they're writing the most effective end product that they possibly can.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Something else you mentioned in the book that I want to make sure and ask about is this concept of surrounding yourself with other writers.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: So much of what we do as writers, we do in isolation and we kind of show up and we have to manufacture our motivation and excitement about it.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: But you talk about why it's really important to surround ourselves with other writers.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Can you expand on that?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I didn't know there were other writers like me when I first started.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I was writing, I didn't meet other authors that were indie authors for about eight years.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I just wrote in this, you know, in in the val all by myself, Kent.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: I was by myself.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: All by yourself.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, no, that I wasn't sad.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: However, I did not have the rich element of having writer friends and didn't realize what I was missing until I had them, until I met other writers.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because your spouse, significant other, best friend, they're all well-meaning and they love you and they think you're fantastic.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: They probably don't want to sit around on word selection or font choices or formatting opportunities or writing software.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: My wife isn't here, but she just said amen from 30 miles away.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: She's at work.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: She's literally lifting up her hands to heaven going, thank you for articulating that.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so you have to find the people who have the thing in common with you that they want to nerd out about it, right?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, oh, you were writing in Helvetica.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I really prefer Georgia.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what about Ariel?
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: We get excited about these things.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: We get excited about these things, as everyone does with a hobby/slash profession.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: And finding other writer friends is helpful for helpful for multiple reasons.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: One, it's just good to have friends that understand what you're going through and can talk to you about it and can encourage you through the through the downtimes.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's also helpful because you're writing a book that probably has a peer.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: That right, your book has a peer and the book's author is your peer.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's also helpful to have writer friends who write books in the same genre that you do.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: So you can talk about there's some wonderful cross-promotional act uh opportunities that show up if you're picking people in the right heart space.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: I love mentioning other people's books.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: I love it when my writer friends take it upon themselves to promote my books, and that's lovely and helpful.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think there's just such a depth to um finding other people who love what you love and talking to them about it and having them understand.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: And and it can help you to get through writer's block if you have it.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's having someone who is inspiring you by what they are doing.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me, what I'm looking for is excellence in writers.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so I listen to podcasts, and when I hear someone say, you know, so and so is an author, and and she has written 200 books, or she has written 80 books, or she has written 50 books, my ears perk up and I'm like, okay, maybe this is someone that I should follow.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: This is someone that I should know because they aspire to excellence in the same field I field I aspire to excellence in.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that's not a throw sum game.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's not, well, if if they read my books, then they're not going to read Kent's books.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: Or if they read Kent's books, then they're not going to read my books.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to hold on to it.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: There's no room for really jealousy or competitiveness.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: It has to be collaborative.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: There, there, it's you just would be so benefited by extending your hand to someone and saying, Hey, I think you're cool.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: I've made several writer friends that I just message them and go, Hey, I heard you on a podcast.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think you're awesome.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: You're a total rock star.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: I just want you to know if you ever want to connect, I'd love it.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: But I just want you to know, I'm watching you, you're inspiring me.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: Have a nice day.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: And more often than not, they reach out.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: Now, every so often I've had people go, Well, what do you want?
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because in this world, a lot of people want something for nothing.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm completely aware of it.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: I literally don't want anything.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know where I'd put it if I got it.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I do want to have great conversations with smart people.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I'm looking for.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what you're looking for, right?
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: You, the listener, you can't.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: You're looking for other smart people who are who are in the same field and connecting with them is really going to help you because relationships are how things happen.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: Relationships are how I got my books published by podium.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: Relationships are how I've spoken at conferences.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: Relationships are how I have gotten to work with so many different people in different ways, clients, mastermind members, all the things.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: Again, with all the things, right?
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: All of those have come because of relationships, because someone said, I know someone.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you need that?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: I know someone.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you're looking to do that?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: I know someone.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: And if if you're not building relationships, if you're just working alone, pretty soon that alone's gonna feel lonely.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's pretty sad just trying to do it by yourself.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's no fun.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: It is no fun, and you don't have to do it.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: There are other people who want to be friends with you.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so I guess maybe it would be helpful if I just gave a couple of suggestions about it.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: So the first thing you want to do is I think there are two different types of writer friends that are really helpful to make.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, those are real and all and then imaginary.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: So the real ones are the people that are kind of like your year group.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: Who's just a beginning writer if you're a beginning writer?
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: Who's a at it for a decade if you've been at it for a decade?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like find the people that have about the same amount of experience as you so that you can communicate and and collaborate, even if it's just from an energy and encouragement perspective.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then the second one is.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: The ones that are imaginary.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a lot of imaginary mentors because I've never met them or I won't meet them because they're dead.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: But they inspire me.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've read their books, I follow them on social media.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: Eventually, maybe we we will connect again if they're alive.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm paying attention to them and they're what is inspiring me to move forward.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many resources out there for us.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, for sure.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to sit and just sort of be lonely and stay isolated.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many people out there who are doing writing and publishing and podcasting and all the things that you're interested in as a writer, whatever your genre is, or whatever kind of work you're doing.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's so many people out there.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: We just sometimes it's hard for people to take initiative and take that step out there, but man, it makes such a massive difference.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I want to say I have made so many friends since I moved to Nashville.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm in my early 50s.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I moved to Nashville five years ago in my late 40s.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: And there were so many people that said, Oh, that's so brave of you.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: You're not going to make any friends.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody already has all their friends as a grown-up.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I have not found that to be true.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: I have found some really great friends.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what I asked?
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I asked people that are new?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: This is how I found one of my closest friends.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: I met her at a conference, her husband was speaking, and I met him, and then he said, Oh, you've got to meet my wife.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: And his wife came over, and oh, you've been in Nashville about, you know, about a year.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: How's it going?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's fine.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: I said, How are you making friends?
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: And she said, I haven't really made any friends yet.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I'll be your friend.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go to brunch.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because there was no, there was no, I didn't say we're going to get married and be best friends forever.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because I didn't know.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: But I thought, I live here and nobody did that for me.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: That sure would have been nice if somebody would have taken me by the hand and said, I'll go to breakfast with you, I'll go to lunch with you.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then here, I'll make some suggestions on places you should go based on what I learned about you.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: What are you interested in?
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: What are your hobbies?
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: That sort of thing.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: Just so happens that I think we're probably going to be friends forever and ever.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's really cool.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: But not everybody has all the friends that they can have.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: Most people are looking for really good quality friendships.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: So if you bring something great to the table, then reach out to someone, follow them on social media, join their newsletter list, respond to their newsletters, just be a friend, right?
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_02: We learned it in kindergarten.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to have a friend, you got to be a friend.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: And this it's no different in the writer community.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: And those of us that have been around a long time, we've seen a lot of people come and go, but there are a lot of great people that have come in and are shining stars.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to know all of them too.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's funny, you know, you talk about reaching out to people who who already have something established.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's pretty amazing that my experience also is most of the time if you listen to a podcast or you read an author's book or you or you're on their newsletter list or whatever.
• 46:57
  unknown: Yep.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: When you reach out to them personally, you shoot them an email or a message on social media or something.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the time they respond back.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think most of the time they're kind of surprised by that.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like people that you perceive have these huge platforms and this and that.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you kind of think, well, they're they're way too big and important to respond to a peon like me.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think most of them perceive it that way at all.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: Not at all.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: Nope.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: I respond to every email and I don't consider myself thing other than you know, whatever.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: As long as it's nice.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: Someone is friendly, I'll respond to it.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I have um Holly Rustic, who is a world-renowned ghost uh grant writer.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: She was in EBM the first year, and the way we found each other was she read uh the some of the successful single mom books.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then she sent me an email and I wrote her back, and then she published some fiction and she sent them to me.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then when we just kind of stayed in touch, and then we're still in touch all these years later.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: But she said it was just so surprising to me that you responded.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: And most people think everybody's sending them something, nobody's sending them anything.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's they're not getting they're not getting as many cool, nice emails as you would expect.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: So go ahead if you appreciate someone's interview or you appreciate someone's book.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: I have to say, last week I finished a trilogy and I thought, okay, it's been 2018.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_02: Surely this author is looking, is writing more books, and I looked him up and he passed away.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I was brokenhearted for like two days.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was so excited that here I found someone I love his work, and I was super excited to read all three books and then reach out and go, hey, I loved your books for what it's worth.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a huge fan.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: Please write more books.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: And he passed away in 21.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: Upset.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: There was a gentleman that I that I worked with when I was a college teacher.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we didn't really work together, but he worked at our school and we had a small school.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: He worked there for probably six or seven years, and we kind of got to be friends, not like best friends, but we were sort of work friends, and I really liked him.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, he was probably 15 years older than me.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I hadn't thought about him in years, and four or five days ago, uh, he just popped into my head.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know how sometimes people just pop in your head for no reason?
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, man, I haven't talked to him for a long time.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: I just wonder how he's doing.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: I should probably text him and find out.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I thought, well, I don't really have a reason for getting in touch, so I just kind of forgot about it.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then one of my former co-workers texted me yesterday and said, Oh, so-and-so had a heart attack on Sunday and he died.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it hit me like a ton of bricks, and I thought, man, I wish that I would have just reached out.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because you just never know.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like what you're talking about.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: These relationships are they're so critical.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now you have mentioned to me before the idea of just look through your text messages and see who you haven't talked to in a while and just reach out.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to have a reason.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: Just reach out.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: You do not have to have a reason to say, you popped into my mind, I'm thinking about you.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: I just wanted to say hello.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you're having a great day.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: I did that with someone who's going to be an ABM in 24.
• 50:03
  unknown: Wow.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: She showed up in my boxer.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: She showed up in my boxer when I was messaging someone else on a Saturday morning, and her name popped up.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I just sent her a message and said, I have always thought you were just so fantastic.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope you're doing amazing.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: And let's talk one of these days.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're gonna love her, by the way.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what a great reminder.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think a lot of people who are listening, maybe they're they're wired like me, which is um like expressing verbal emotion has never been something that's come really natural to me.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's something I've really had to work on and learn a lot.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: So this is such a great, a great reminder just to go ahead and express it.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some so often we think, well, I'm gonna come across as sappy, or you know, when kind of you you put an emotion out there, you don't know if it's gonna be reciprocated or what people will think, but life is short.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people are starved to know that they matter.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_02: Even the toughest people love to hear you matter to me.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_05: That's great.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking about you, and I hope you're doing well.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: And if you do it long enough, your sincerity will come through.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: People can tell the difference between someone who wants something and someone who just wants to be awesome.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you probably didn't anticipate we were gonna go from writer's block to people passing away, but it's all part of the same thing.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: But it's all part of the same, it's all part of the same process.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you have a block, it's your network, it's your friends.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna pick up the phone and go, look, I'm gonna lay my house on my heart out on the table, and I'm gonna say, I'm really having a rough time.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I had a friend many years ago, we were Will and Grace.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: And we had a rule that if either of us called the other and said, just three minutes about why I'm fabulous, because I am not feeling it, like something's happened, and I don't have time to tell you the story, but I need like a shot of like, tell me why I'm cool or awesome or fun or lovable or whatever.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it was immediately he would just go, Well, you are just so cool and you've got such great energy and you really impact people's lives.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: And he would just go on and on and on.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Okay, all right, I'll talk to you later.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, bye.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: But it really made it awesome.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think that there's a a lot of people that go, Let me just tell you the story.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to tell you the story of why I'm upset.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: And instead, it's like, you know what?
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_02: I just had something happen and I don't want to talk about the story, but could you just give me just like 30 seconds on why you're my friend?
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me why you're cool, Kent.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_02: I just think you are the salt of the earth person.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: I love working with you.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: You are someone that I trust with my brand and my clients and my network, and I just really appreciate you.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then that's it.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, have a nice day.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: Goodbye.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: That is awesome.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't take very much to do that.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, I probably could do it more.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's reminding me that I need to do that more with people.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: But I love that I can send a voice text to someone.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_02: Just like send a little voice message and go, hey, you popped up.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you're having a great day.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: If I can do anything for you, let me know.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um and just get on with your day.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: People are really starved for that.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're having a hard time writing, if you've hit writer's block, go through your go through your contacts.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: And instead of reaching out to someone to say, I have writer's block, tell me why I'm fabulous, go send a message to 10 people.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: Fabulous.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: Here's why you're fabulous.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: I have the EBM roster, I write it out every single month and I have things.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_02: You don't know this.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm about to like go open Komodo on something.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: But in my bullet journal, I write down everybody's name and then I write all the different ways that I want to make sure that I touch them.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_02: So by phone, by mail, by text, by boxer, right?
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_02: Something have a one-on-one session.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: And um, it's if I have a if I'm ever having a rough day, I'll go through the list and send a message to each each person.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna totally steal that idea.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: What you give, what you're putting out, is coming back to you multiplied.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: So when you get stuck, you can always write words about why someone else is fantastic and then take a nap, go take a bath, go take a walk, and then come back and try writing again and just see if maybe you're less stuck than before because you've got um congestion, right?
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the problem is congestion and the uh solution is circulation.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: So that's one way to get words in circulation and just see if that doesn't get you unstuck and back back in the groove.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that could solve a whole host of problems, not just writer's block.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: This has been such a great conversation.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't anticipate we were gonna go here, but this is this is so much more of a beautiful place than just kind of talking about, you know, 10 specific strategies or something.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is really about our life, isn't it?
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: This is so much better than like Honore wrote another book that Kent told her she should write.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's good too.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: Also good.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: And apparently I'm just gonna keep adding to the list.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: If I ever run out of ideas, which I I don't tend to do, I know I can always call that's true.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_02: I can always call you up and say, okay, Kent, what's another book I should write?
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because I haven't got an idea for 15 minutes.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I told you the other day the um the the topic we're doing for the EBM session this week.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, this episode will come out after that, but I think that's a fantastic topic.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I know.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone, everyone involved is very excited about it.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's gonna be good.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, honore, thank you again for doing this conversation.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think you you are you are uh definitely the most frequent guest here on the show.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always thrilled to have you.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: And before we record, I know I mentioned uh, you know, if I'm like Johnny Carson, you're sort of like the Dean Martin.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or I have to go back and watch Johnny Carson to see all the guests that he would have on, like on a frequent basis.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: There were several, I think, but I always remember Dean Martin.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'll have to go back and look and see which one I want to take on as my first persona for next time.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: They were all great.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'll come as like Breta Garbo or something.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: That would be awesome.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you again.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: This has been such a blast, and I'm excited that this book is going to be out into the world.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's great.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's helping me already.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: And uh again, just appreciate you so much.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_02: Back at you, Kent.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate you so much.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me on so many times and for all of the ways that we get to be in each other's lives.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_02: It really means a lot.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Honore.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: I always love having her on the podcast because, as you can tell, she delivers amazing value and so much wisdom with business, entrepreneurship, writing, and so many other kinds of things.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: And again, if you want a free copy of the book, you can go to Apple Podcast and leave a review for the Daily Writer Podcast.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: Take a screenshot, shoot it to me over at Kent at DailyWriterLife.com, and the first five people to do that will get a free copy of There's No Such Thing as Writer's Blog from me in the mail.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, of course, you can go to Amazon and grab a copy.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: And uh there's a link in the show notes for the book.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I highly recommend going to Honore's website and signing up for her daily email list for writers.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's really, really good stuff.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: I get it every single day.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: I love it, and I learn something from her all the time.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, huge thanks to Honore for making time to be a guest on today's episode.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: And as always, thank you so much for listening.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you so much, and I'll see you next time.