Latest / Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News / Navigating a compartmentalized healthcare system violates your medical freedom

Transcript

Navigating a compartmentalized healthcare system violates your medical freedom · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:12
  I'm Stephanie Coxon.
• 0:13
  I'm Kathy Anderson Martin.
• 0:15
  And we are two women influencing real life.
• 0:18
  So let's twirl.
• 0:22
  Kathy, as we are entering into what I'm going to define as weird times within the US of A, one of the things that is not readily recognized is the amount of medical freedom issues that we have within the within our country.
• 0:41
  And how a lot of information, a lot of access, a lot of care is blocked by corporate medicine or the pharmaceutical companies.
• 0:50
  And so I thought it would be a good idea to talk to someone who got wrapped up in the system and just hear her story of how she as part of the medical system is trying to navigate it.
• 1:04
  I I think that's a good topic to have, Stephanie, because I think you know, when people are out and about in conversation, more and more just having, you know, going about our lives.
• 1:13
  We hear stories and horror stories of people that can't get care and or the care needs to be what they say, how they say it.
• 1:20
  And uh, so I think this is a great topic because I know I've run into a lot of people that have those same concerns.
• 1:25
  So uh good job, good conversation ahead today.
• 1:29
  Yeah.
• 1:29
  So I'm Stephanie Coxon.
• 1:31
  And I'm Kathy Henderson Martin.
• 1:33
  And we are two women inspiring real life.
• 1:35
  So let's twirl.
• 1:37
  You know, because of how our medical system is, we are actually not going to use the person's real name because it's important for her to have the anonymity as she moves through everything.
• 1:48
  And I think it's really sad that we have to do that because we have seen what happens to people when they when they don't.
• 1:55
  Um, but I'm super excited to have Karen on today and just to hear her story because I'm assuming she is not alone.
• 2:04
  I I agree.
• 2:05
  I mean, from the the little bit that I've heard in advance of us uh speaking today, it's again, it's something that needs to be told.
• 2:13
  We've had over the past two years, Stephanie, numerous stories of people in their fight, and I'm gonna use that word fight to navigate the healthcare system.
• 2:22
  Um, you know, being told they had to do things that they didn't feel in their gut was right and trying to find alternative voices, maybe I know I've had some of that throughout my lifetime and uh I'm excited to even before 2020.
• 2:36
  So uh, but I think it's gotten progressively worse.
• 2:39
  So I'm excited for this conversation with Karen.
• 2:42
  Yes.
• 2:42
  So Karen, let's just kind of give a little bit of a background of where this started because for you, this started with just wanting to be preventative because there's a family history of breast cancer that runs in your family.
• 2:56
  Is that correct?
• 2:58
  That's correct.
• 2:59
  So it was probably about 10 to 12 years ago I went for just a routine mammogram because um, as you mentioned, my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer.
• 3:10
  She had several ants with breast cancer, I had a paternal grandma with breast cancer.
• 3:15
  Um, so I thought, okay, I'm going to be preventative.
• 3:18
  And at that point, I was maybe slightly into my natural care journey as I had been navigating the system with my daughter who had had some issues, but wasn't quite there yet.
• 3:32
  I mean, I worked as a nurse um since 1998 in the hospital system.
• 3:37
  So I still had that medical mindset.
• 3:40
  Um, but I went for that routine mammogram, and of course they ended up finding something.
• 3:47
  And right away, you know, as what typically does that fear just kind of sets in that okay, I have to do everything that they tell me, even though I felt like, hmm, you know, I don't feel like I need to rush into this, but yet I still did because of the things that they were saying to me.
• 4:06
  So I, you know, at that point I went ahead and had the biopsy, um, which came back normal, thank goodness, but I felt very forced into it at the time.
• 4:17
  Um, you know, at the time I was smart enough to to say, okay, I don't really want you to place that metal marker inside my breast when you do this.
• 4:26
  But they said, well, we have to do that.
• 4:28
  Like that's part of it.
• 4:30
  And I I didn't have enough um can I interrupt you a second, Karen?
• 4:34
  Yeah.
• 4:35
  Can you explain that metal marker?
• 4:37
  What's it?
• 4:38
  So when they do the biopsy, they they put a little marker in there so that if there would be something going on when they would go back to do your surgery or whatever it is, um, they would know exactly where they saw that.
• 4:52
  So it's something they put in your body.
• 4:54
  So yes, it's put in your body, so it's still there as of today.
• 4:58
  Okay.
• 4:58
  And I would say it, and I think it's important for people to know that there's a uh a pretty high false positive um that comes back with these mammograms.
• 5:09
  Yes, that's correct.
• 5:10
  And I have very fibrous, dense breasts.
• 5:13
  So pretty much every mammogram I would have had probably would have sent me on the same path.
• 5:20
  Um, so after that, I did become more proactive and started doing thermograms every year, um, which is very non-invasive, nothing is squished, you know, it's um no radiation, no radiation.
• 5:37
  It shows any type of inflammation that might be going on.
• 5:40
  Um, so that's what I did, you know, for the next 10 years.
• 5:44
  Um backwards to what, four or five years ago, I ended up finding a lump.
• 5:52
  So I thought, okay, well, I need to do something else.
• 5:55
  I knew it wasn't a mammogram because that's not really gonna give us more information.
• 6:02
  So um my physician at the time who was a functional medicine doctor ordered for an ultrasound to be done.
• 6:08
  Um, so I went to the imaging center for the ultrasound.
• 6:12
  Um sitting in the waiting room for quite some time, and I thought, what is going on here?
• 6:17
  And then they came out and said, We're just waiting for your physician to get back to us.
• 6:23
  Um she needs to clarify the order to add the mammogram in.
• 6:28
  And I said, Well, I'm not getting a mammogram.
• 6:30
  I already had a thermogram.
• 6:32
  My physician just wanted the ultrasound.
• 6:34
  And they said, Well, that's not protocol.
• 6:37
  And I was like, well, are you refusing to do it?
• 6:41
  And this is in the waiting room.
• 6:42
  It was kind of ridiculous.
• 6:43
  So you were having a conversation with lots of people listening to you.
• 6:46
  Yes.
• 6:48
  And that's not really my thing.
• 6:49
  I'm not confrontational typically, but I thought, no, I'm not getting pushed around here.
• 6:55
  So anyway, she said, well, let me go talk to the radiologist about it.
• 7:00
  About it.
• 7:01
  So she came back and she said, Well, the radiologist said that we'll do it, but if we see something, we then need to go ahead and do the mammogram, which to me made absolutely no sense because that's not gonna give us any more information.
• 7:01
  So she came back and she said, Well, the radiologist said that we'll do it, but if we see something, we then need to go ahead and do the mammogram, which to me made absolutely no sense because that's not going to give us any more information.
• 7:16
  And I said, Well, okay, you know, but I'm not gonna have the mammogram today.
• 7:16
  And I said, Well, okay, you know, but I'm not going to have the mammogram today.
• 7:19
  I'll discuss that with my physician after this is all said and done.
• 7:19
  I'll discuss that with my physician after this is all said and done.
• 7:23
  And clearly I wasn't going to go back to the mammogram.
• 7:23
  And clearly I wasn't going to go back to the mammogram.
• 7:26
  Um, thankfully, everything was okay at the time.
• 7:26
  Um, thankfully, everything was okay at the time, and it was.
• 7:29
  And it was um cis that that they saw, but you know, it just kind of opened my eyes to how pushy that they can be, you know, for somebody that didn't really know or understand, they just would have went ahead with it, you know, without and I think I think there's actually several key points here that need to be made.
• 7:50
  One is you have a doctor giving an order that they were pretty much refusing, they were trying to refuse to follow, right?
• 7:57
  Which technically is illegal.
• 8:00
  Two, they were having a conversation with you in a public area about your health issues, also not what they're supposed to be doing.
• 8:11
  But second, they're trying to give you something that isn't going to give you any more information, force you into it, that's not needed, won't give you more information, would be a waste of time, radiate you and could possibly make it worse at that point.
• 8:26
  And that's what they were trying to force you to do.
• 8:30
  Correct.
• 8:31
  And when I got the bill for that test, it ended up being a lot more than it should have been.
• 8:37
  And I recognized, oh, it's because I didn't follow the protocol.
• 8:40
  Had I had the mammogram, then the ultrasound, it would have been covered more.
• 8:44
  But because I just chose the ultrasound, I got charged more.
• 8:48
  So let's let's reiterate that.
• 8:50
  As we have skyrocketing health care costs and health insurance costs, you had fewer services, which if you buy less apples, it should cost less because you got less apples.
• 9:03
  So you got less services, but we're billed more because they said, No, we need to sell you a dozen apples versus the three you need.
• 9:12
  So there may be a little reason there why our health care costs are so high as well, because that that's just counterintuitive.
• 9:19
  It doesn't make any sense.
• 9:21
  Right, right.
• 9:22
  Makes no sense at all.
• 9:23
  But sense is not something that in today's medical world um necessarily is applicable in all cases.
• 9:31
  That's true.
• 9:32
  And we have HIPAA and all those things while they're discussing her entire medical situation in a waiting room of people.
• 9:41
  Right.
• 9:42
  Sounds like a lovely experience.
• 9:43
  Continue on.
• 9:44
  Yes.
• 9:45
  So go on.
• 9:46
  Okay.
• 9:47
  So fast forward to last year.
• 9:50
  Um, when I just my lump was getting bigger, and I thought, okay, I think I just need to go ahead and do an ultrasound again.
• 9:58
  So I didn't want to go through the same um the same thing that I did four or five years ago.
• 10:05
  So I went to um a hearse scan, which is a mobile ultrasound unit.
• 10:09
  You still need to um, well, you don't need a doctor's order, which makes it a lot easier.
• 10:14
  Um self-pay, of course, but the self-pay was going to be half the price that I paid for that ultrasound in the hospital.
• 10:22
  Can I just say that again?
• 10:23
  I would just like to highlight that that self-pay is a lot less than the negotiated contracts, which should be less, but please consider exactly.
• 10:33
  So anyway, um, on that ultrasound, it did show um a mass as well as several cysts.
• 10:39
  So I knew that I needed to take action, but I really did not want to go through a biopsy um at that point.
• 10:47
  I knew this was more serious than you know, the last time, but I thought, no, I'm I'm not doing this.
• 10:54
  Like I have now been in holistic health for many, many years, and I know there are reasons that cancer can grow in the body, and I really want to get to the root cause of that.
• 11:06
  And I really didn't want to get stuck in the medical system.
• 11:10
  So the practice that I worked at, um, the physician got set up to do some specialized blood testing that helps to detect cancer.
• 11:20
  So it's, you know, non-invasive.
• 11:22
  Um, but blood can't or blood testing that could give us an idea of of where things were.
• 11:29
  Um that took several months to kind of get set up, but it did show that there was cancer.
• 11:35
  So I started some natural holistic treatments, um, which I'm still doing at this time, but I wanted to get a baseline of how things were and to make sure there was no metastasis or anything going on.
• 11:49
  So my holistic-minded nurse practitioner wrote uh an order for a CAT scan of the chest um just to make sure there was no metastasis as well as MRI of the breasts.
• 12:03
  And I really didn't want contrast.
• 12:05
  I didn't feel like we needed contrast to get a better picture because we knew what we were looking for.
• 12:11
  Um, so anyway, I scheduled the the CAT scan um at a facility uh who was very transparent with their oh no, take that back, rewind.
• 12:23
  I I scheduled them both with a facility and got estimated costs um for self-pay because I recognized that pain out of pocket was going to be cheaper than through my insurance.
• 12:36
  So I I got the cost, you know, had it set up for the CAT scan, and then about two days later, I got an email that gave me an estimated cost of like 250 more.
• 12:49
  And I thought, wait a minute, how did how did the cost change in in two days?
• 12:55
  Inflation care.
• 12:57
  So I guess they had um decided, oh, well, we see that she has insurance, I guess from past times that I had been at the facility.
• 13:05
  We're gonna run it through there.
• 13:07
  So uh needless to say, again, it was going to be 250 more if I used insurance, which I didn't plan to.
• 13:15
  Can I can I please, because I have to keep reiterating this, you got a cost, which you're going to hand them a check, which requires very little processing, and you're going to pay for it.
• 13:27
  And then you, or you have the option of going through your insurance company, which requires a lot more paperwork.
• 13:34
  And it's that would be 250 dollars than if you just handed them a check.
• 13:40
  Right more.
• 13:41
  Right.
• 13:41
  Right.
• 13:41
  The $200 more.
• 13:43
  I'm sorry, the insurance was more.
• 13:44
  Yes.
• 13:45
  So and I think it's important to say here.
• 13:48
  So basically, but they want to go through the insurance.
• 13:51
  They wanted versus her handing them a check.
• 13:54
  Correct.
• 13:54
  I think this is like the bigger point is that when you pay your insurance, in a lot of cases, you're actually paying more than what the procedure costs.
• 14:00
  In a lot of cases, you're actually paying more than what the procedure costs.
• 14:03
  So your insurance company is profiting off the procedure, right?
• 14:03
  So your insurance company is profiting off the procedure, right?
• 14:10
  And then forcing you into multiple procedures and then forcing you to pay the deductible on top of the already higher priced procedure.
• 14:10
  And then forcing you into multiple procedures and then forcing you to pay the deductible on top of the already higher priced procedure.
• 14:20
  I think they would say, Oh, well, yes, but that's also because we're covering the costs of those who can't pay with what you're paying.
• 14:20
  I think they would say, oh, well, yes, but that's also because we're covering the costs of those who can't pay with what you're paying.
• 14:26
  I that that's usually their their line.
• 14:26
  I that that's usually their their line.
• 14:29
  What I'm
• 14:29
  What I'm thinking is this is a very profitable business, and I think we should go into it.
• 14:34
  Can I just share one time?
• 14:36
  We did a high deductible plan.
• 14:37
  And when my one of my daughters was little, she put a bead in her ear.
• 14:41
  So we had to go to the doctor because we could not dislodge the bead.
• 14:45
  And they pulled the bead out.
• 14:47
  It was took like seconds, and we got a bill.
• 14:49
  And at that time we were doing self-pay because we had a high deductible.
• 14:52
  It was billed as a surgical procedure at like hundreds of dollars.
• 14:56
  So I went in and I said, um, is this a certain and they were like, oh no, that's miscoded, because I was paying myself and I was like, I pay hundreds of dollars.
• 15:04
  They said it was like a hundred bucks for like an office visit.
• 15:07
  But now, if I hadn't had that plan, I probably wouldn't have gone in and contested it.
• 15:12
  But that's the problem, all of these, how we code it, what the protocol is, not looking at the dollars and cents of it.
• 15:19
  So that was one of my educate educational times with dealing with the medical system, a very small thing.
• 15:24
  And by the way, if you have any children out there, keep beads away from them because they do apparently put them in their nose and ears.
• 15:30
  And Lego arms, Lego, Lego arms also happened because I it's in the same situation.
• 15:36
  Where was it dislodged?
• 15:37
  Did Lego arm?
• 15:38
  In the nose.
• 15:39
  Okay.
• 15:39
  It was in the nose, yes.
• 15:41
  Okay.
• 15:42
  Little arm came out of his nose.
• 15:44
  Okay.
• 15:44
  So sorry, we're we diverted from Karen's.
• 15:51
  So anyway, I I got just a little perturbed by that.
• 15:55
  So I ended up calling um another facility who is very transparent on their website with their prices for self-pay imaging.
• 16:06
  Um, they're a physician-owned um company.
• 16:09
  So I ended up going there.
• 16:11
  Um, but even there, they they called to question the order and said, This really needs to have contrast.
• 16:18
  Um, we said no, thank you.
• 16:20
  And and they were fine with it.
• 16:22
  But uh the funny thing is when I got the results of that test really big on the top of it, um, it said provider adamantly refused contrast just to cover themselves.
• 16:35
  But um anyway, so so that went fine.
• 16:38
  Um, then I went to do the MRI of the of the breasts, which I couldn't do at that facility because they didn't do breasts.
• 16:46
  So back to the big corporation.
• 16:49
  And last week um got a phone call from them saying we need an updated order.
• 16:55
  We need this to say with contrast.
• 16:57
  I said the physician um does not want contrast, we're doing without.
• 17:02
  And so I thought that was the end of it.
• 17:04
  Got another phone call a couple days later.
• 17:07
  Um, the radiologist said we have to do contrast with this um with this test.
• 17:13
  I said, So are you refusing to do the test if I don't have contrast?
• 17:17
  And she said, um, the radiologist needs to talk to your provider.
• 17:22
  It is important that we have contrast.
• 17:24
  I thought, oh goodness, this is ridiculous.
• 17:27
  Um, so my provider did talk to them, and yeah, they weren't gonna do it without contrast.
• 17:34
  Like they literally refused.
• 17:37
  I I was just blown away.
• 17:40
  I mean, I was doing self-pay, there was no insurance involvement.
• 17:44
  Why if I sign off saying I accept the, you know, liability.
• 17:51
  Can I ask you why do you not want contrast?
• 17:55
  Well, the contrast in the MRI is very difficult to detox out.
• 18:00
  And I know that my immune system has been down over the last many years, which is probably why I'm in the place that I am.
• 18:08
  Um, so I I thought, no, I've been doing a lot of work to build my immune system up this year, and I don't want that.
• 18:16
  You know, there's I I can see what I need to see without.
• 18:19
  They didn't have contrast um when they first came out with MRIs and CAT scans.
• 18:24
  That was probably 10 years later.
• 18:26
  Um, so it can be done.
• 18:29
  Um it's just a little harder to see, and you might not pick up every little little thing.
• 18:34
  So I I want to share, I mean, you're coming at this, and I say this, there are times that people say they want this, don't want this, that don't really have any knowledge or know what they're saying or understanding.
• 18:44
  You are somebody who has a degreed medical professional, worked in the hospital system, um, you know, uh and have studied and looked into this.
• 18:55
  You have very good reasons, even not even um ethical or moral, but actual health-related reasons that this may not be the best course of treatment or exploration for you, given other health concerns.
• 19:12
  Correct.
• 19:13
  Correct.
• 19:14
  And I do believe there might be situations where you do need to use the the contrast, but in this particular situation, it did not need to happen.
• 19:23
  Right.
• 19:23
  And I say that because there are people, I mean, I I know somebody whose family believed in no health care at all.
• 19:28
  You couldn't even go to the dentist, or it was like morally like it was against God if you got any kind of if you took an aspirin or a Tylenol or whatever.
• 19:37
  This is not, and it gets borders on a little wacky.
• 19:41
  Um, this is not that case at all.
• 19:43
  This is somebody who has very informed a basis for why you're asking for what you're asking, given your health concerns.
• 19:51
  And is consulting and with another physician, right?
• 19:55
  Yeah, they're consulting physicians and there's people who know what they're doing.
• 19:59
  So it's not even like you are acting on your own.
• 20:02
  You are a medical professional professional conversing with other medical professionals in order to come to this conclusion, and yet you're still being denied the care that you wish for.
• 20:13
  Correct.
• 20:14
  Yeah, it that blew me away.
• 20:16
  I was shocked that they would do that.
• 20:18
  I mean, I could see them coming back and forth and making suggestions, but to actually deny it.
• 20:25
  Wow.
• 20:26
  Has this been resolved, or is it still an ongoing dispute?
• 20:30
  No, I just I'm choosing to go a different route at this point.
• 20:33
  Um, oh, and I completely skipped um another testing facility that denied me.
• 20:39
  Um before I decided to go with the CAT scan and MRI.
• 20:44
  There's um there's something out there that's called prenouve, which is um an MRI that has they don't use contrast, it's kind of separate from the the mainstream facilities there, you know, kind of more a company where a lot of the holistic practices are are utilizing because um they they state they can catch stage one cancers, and it's just kind of a preventative MRI to look at your whole body to see what's going on.
• 21:00
  The holistic practices are utilizing because they they state they can catch stage one cancers and it's just kind of a preventative MRI to look at your whole body to see what's going on.
• 21:14
  And my purpose was really just to see if there were any metastasis or anything.
• 21:14
  And my purpose was really just to see if there were any metastasis or anything.
• 21:18
  So anyway, my nurse practitioner wrote an order for that test.
• 21:18
  So anyway, my nurse practitioner wrote an order for that test, and um she did write on there that I had cancer, so she got some um information back.
• 21:23
  And um, she did write on there that I had cancer.
• 21:27
  So she got some um information back from them that she would need to submit all of the um testing and things that I had done before they would go ahead and do it.
• 21:38
  Um she thought, well, that's kind of odd, but they said it's okay.
• 21:41
  We really never deny anybody.
• 21:43
  Well, who gets denied?
• 21:45
  This girl.
• 21:47
  Yeah, so they said because I had this pre-existing cancer that was currently active, they would not do the test.
• 21:56
  Now, mind you, we probably shouldn't have even put on there that I had cancer because I didn't have an official biopsy to diagnose it.
• 22:04
  So we probably could have just gotten away, you know, without it.
• 22:08
  But now we know.
• 22:10
  Um, it it's such a liability thing.
• 22:12
  They all just don't want to be involved.
• 22:17
  And there was really no good reason behind it.
• 22:20
  I had reached out to them a week later after I had prayed about it and calmed down a little bit and never got any response from them.
• 22:27
  Um, I was just really disappointed because you know, this company was out there for more holistic-minded people, but yet still too worried about getting sued.
• 22:38
  Yes, we're a litigation happy society, and so much of so much comes down to avoiding litigation versus doing what's right.
• 22:47
  Yes, it seems like that's how it is in most cases, and it's really disappointing because people are being denied care despite being informed.
• 22:58
  You know, just despite if you want to go without your insurance, they find out you have insurance, you get charged more.
• 23:05
  Even if you want to pay that cash price, they'll deny you the cash price just based on you having insurance.
• 23:12
  I mean, these are things that we need to get into.
• 23:14
  We have to go to break, but you know, these are things that people should be aware of.
• 23:18
  So let's go to break come back and kind of dig further into this.
• 23:23
  Be sure to make America Outloud.news, your daily stop for all the latest news and happenings.
• 23:29
  We must all do our part to share the stories, the articles, the podcast, and videos so we can help secure America's future.
• 23:38
  All of our shows go to podcast typically a day or two after the broadcast is heard on talk radio.
• 23:44
  You can hear them on Spotify, Stitcher, Pandora, and iHeart Podcast, and many more.
• 23:49
  Be sure to subscribe and rate the show on Apple Podcasts for us.
• 23:53
  Have you been looking for a healthy snack for on the go?
• 23:57
  Well, not all energy bars are soft and sugary.
• 24:01
  Bear bars are a crunchy savory bar made from just six simple natural ingredients.
• 24:08
  Bear bars are plant-based, organic, gluten-free, contain six grams of protein, and are low temperature dried for unique crunch.
• 24:17
  Most energy bars are based on chocolate or fruit and are held together with syrups or sweeteners.
• 24:24
  To learn more, just visit barebar.com slash out loud.
• 24:29
  Your heart is the most crucial muscle in your body.
• 24:31
  Are you doing enough to keep it strong?
• 24:33
  Introducing the wellness company's Breakthrough Healthy Heart formula, designed by Dr.
• 24:37
  Peter McCullough, now upgraded with taurine.
• 24:40
  This daily supplement supports cardiovascular health and works to protect cells against oxidative stress.
• 24:46
  Packed with Dribos to boost heart function, taurine to help maintain heart muscular health, coenzyme Q10 and selenium citrate to help reduce risk of cardiac disease and a vitamin B complex with L-carnitine for energy and muscle support.
• 25:00
  Endorsed by the wellness company's chief medical board.
• 25:03
  This formula is your ally for heart health.
• 25:05
  Reclaim your health now at TWC.health forward slash out loud and use code Outloud for 20% off your first order plus free shipping.
• 25:14
  In just two minutes per day, you can reclaim your health and vitality and cut your grocery bill in half with one simple convenient product.
• 25:22
  Our doctor formulated green 85 juice formula's powerful dose of ultra-concentrated essential nutrients, stops hunger in its tracks, and supplies your cells with what's missing in the grocery store food.
• 25:34
  It's packed with wheatgrass, corella, dandelion, moringa, spirulina, broccoli sprouts, oceai berry, beetroot, probiotics, enzymes, vitamins A, D, K, B12, just to name a few.
• 25:46
  Go to ChemicalfreeBody.com forward slash out loud today, get nature's super multivitamin green 85, empower your immune system, cut down on your grocery bill, and save 20% on your first order.
• 25:59
  Oral hygiene hasn't changed in 50 years.
• 26:02
  Brush, floss, repeat.
• 26:05
  We're told to use fluoride, which doesn't really address the acid creating bacteria.
• 26:10
  That is where the dentist recommended spray dental defense system shines.
• 26:15
  Sprite products contain xylitol, a natural sugar, which helps get rid of those nasty, smelly acid-creating bacteria in our mouth.
• 26:24
  The best way to care for your teeth and gums is by using spray.
• 26:28
  The spray dental defense system has a wide variety of products, toothpaste, mouthwash, mints, and chewing gums that are designed to work together to keep your teeth clean and mouth healthy and smelling sweet all day long to get your oral care back on track in an easy, effective, and very tasty way.
• 26:47
  Switch to spray today.
• 26:49
  Ask your dentist about xylitol and the spry products.
• 26:53
  Sprite can be found online and at all fine natural product retailers.
• 26:57
  I'm Doug Evans, author of the Sprout Book.
• 27:00
  I want to share something that's powerful.
• 27:02
  You can grow your own food right on your kitchen countertop.
• 27:06
  Sprouting is an ancient method that turns ordinary seeds into living vegetables in just three to five days.
• 27:13
  No soil, no sunshine, no fertilizer, just seeds, water for under a dollar a serving.
• 27:20
  You can grow nutrient-dense packed greens anywhere.
• 27:23
  City apartments, dorm rooms, off-the-grid cabins.
• 27:27
  In a time when food prices are rising, sprouting gives you control, abundance, and peace of mind.
• 27:33
  Join the self-reliance revolution.
• 27:35
  Go to the Sprouting Company.com slash out loud and use the code Out Loud for an exclusive offer.
• 27:43
  Feeling off since COVID?
• 27:44
  Try the wellness company Spike Detox Trio.
• 27:47
  Packed with natok kinase, bromaline, and turmeric to help boost your immune system and fight off harmful spike proteins.
• 27:53
  Bounce back with energy and clarity.
• 27:54
  Go to TWC.health forward slash out loud and use promo code Outloud for 20% off your first order.
• 28:00
  20% off your first order.
• 28:03
  Well, it's high time.
• 28:03
  Well, it's high time.
• 28:04
  Americans refuse to be punched in the human chest.
• 28:04
  Americans refuse to be punched in the human chest.
• 28:08
  Under the name of diversity, politicians divide the people in their quest for pump.
• 28:08
  Under the name of diversity, politicians divide the people in their quest for pump.
• 28:14
  Well, diversity of opinion and expression is as American as Apple Pond.
• 28:14
  Well, diversity of opinion and expression is as American as Apple Bom.
• 28:23
  Now is our time.
• 28:23
  Now is our time, my fellow Americans.
• 28:24
  My fellow Americans, America Outloud Dot News.
• 28:26
  America of Law.news.
• 28:29
  Liberty and
• 28:29
  Liberty and justice for all.
• 28:36
  Karen, welcome back.
• 28:38
  Let's dive into this just a little bit.
• 28:42
  As we try to understand, you know, why is this happening in the medical system?
• 28:51
  Have when you were working in the hospitals, did you see this sort of thing?
• 28:56
  Were you aware of it?
• 28:58
  I think working in the hospital, I didn't see the back end of it.
• 29:03
  Um, you know, I didn't see the piece with the insurance, I didn't see all of that.
• 29:08
  Um so I I was not aware of this piece of it.
• 29:13
  Um, I was aware as an oncology nurse for most of my time that um I would not follow the same path that a lot of my patients were following.
• 29:23
  Um, but yeah, I I didn't know all of the backstory.
• 29:27
  So you know just to clarify you were an oncology nurse who knew what was going on and still did not want to follow what you had previously seen.
• 29:44
  I mean, you weren't just an ER nurse or it was oncology.
• 29:50
  So this is your area.
• 29:52
  I was giving the poison.
• 29:55
  And I, after so many years, I couldn't do it anymore.
• 29:59
  Like I just did not feel like I could do something that I totally did not believe in.
• 30:06
  So it was around that time that I ended up leaving the hospital system and going to home health because it just I felt like a hypocrite.
• 30:16
  You you couldn't administer and be with people that you thought something that was not making the situation better for them.
• 30:23
  Right.
• 30:24
  Right.
• 30:26
  You know, I I think this um again, we we talk about medical freedom, and I I've had experiences with this with our daughter when she was small 20 years, 25 years ago.
• 30:38
  Um, she was diagnosed at one week old and congestive heart failure.
• 30:43
  It turned out she had a ventricular septal defect and an atrial septal defect, then that result went into failure to thrive because she stopped eating.
• 30:50
  She had a feeding tube, and um I had open heart surgery at the same time.
• 30:56
  So I had a breathing tube for a while.
• 30:57
  And when I woke up, and I felt when they put the feeding tube in, that made the failure to thrive worse because her reflux started to reflux violently.
• 31:05
  So even the food you were trying to get in with this tube, she was throwing up projectile vomiting.
• 31:09
  When I had the breathing tube, I woke up and my throat hurt really bad.
• 31:13
  And I lying in my hospital bed um pulled her tube out, and I said, I think this is making the situation worse because of what it's doing to my throat, how I feel.
• 31:23
  This child has this baby has this all the time.
• 31:26
  We had to fight like tooth and nail.
• 31:28
  And I remember one of the doctors looking at me and going, This is what this is what they said.
• 31:33
  They said, This is what the book says to do.
• 31:35
  And I said, people are not books, and you're not listening.
• 31:39
  I, you know, and I really felt this strongly.
• 31:41
  I demanded, they finally gave us another, oh, I demanded the second opinion.
• 31:45
  We went to that doctor in another city who looked at me and said, I think you're right.
• 31:49
  But I felt so strongly, and I didn't have a medical background.
• 31:53
  I mean, this is a completely ramped up.
• 31:57
  I mean, with what you had, but you have to find and it turned out she was fine, and we didn't need a feeding tube thereafter, you know.
• 32:04
  So um, sometimes you do have to just stand up for what you feel in your gut.
• 32:09
  In your case, it's not just gut, it is years of experience and firsthand observation about what the protocols did to people.
• 32:19
  Right.
• 32:20
  And and I saw that they weren't addressing some of the basic things.
• 32:24
  I mean, nutrition.
• 32:25
  Shouldn't we be looking at what we're putting into our body and trying to build the immune system instead of just killing every good and bad cell in the body?
• 32:35
  But that's not something they they look at, you know, when they're treating cancer.
• 32:41
  Um, they're they're just looking at the cancer and not the body as a whole and not the person as a whole.
• 32:47
  And why does this person have cancer?
• 32:50
  What's the root?
• 32:51
  Because if we just go in and kill those bad cells and whatever other good cells, is another cancer probably not just gonna come back in a few years because the environment's the same in the body.
• 33:02
  Is there, and Stephanie, maybe you have some, um you both probably know this.
• 33:06
  I've and maybe I'm just making this up.
• 33:09
  Isn't there some um biopsies that maybe that that sometimes contributes to making things worse by opening up and doing biopsy that that can sometimes create bigger problems, or am I just making that up?
• 33:22
  No, it research has shown about 50% of the time it can actually spread the cancer.
• 33:26
  It's it's a pretty high rate that yeah, I mean you're it's Russian roulette essentially by doing biopsies, according to the research.
• 33:35
  Right.
• 33:36
  I thought I heard that, but I just wanted to clarify that.
• 33:38
  Yeah, I personally wouldn't know because I don't do biopsies, but according to the research, that's what it says.
• 33:44
  So, Karen, where do you go from here with all of this entanglement with the system?
• 33:50
  So I'm still trying to figure that one out at this point.
• 33:54
  Um, right now, I I'm thankful that my my faith and trust in the Lord has really helped me through this walk.
• 34:03
  Um, I feel like, you know, some of the situations that I'd been put in over the past 10, 15 years in the healthcare system, um, have really just gave me more perseverance and strength to be able to not let fear take over, which is the first thing that happens when we're given that diagnosis, right?
• 34:25
  Like the fear takes over and we just listen to what everybody says, but um I've just kind of been trusting in him that you know, these roadblocks are here for a reason, and I just need to keep trying to research and find the next step from here.
• 34:41
  So I'm still walking that path and and figuring it out.
• 34:47
  And I think it's also important to note that the current system that we're in is designed for fear.
• 34:53
  They actually will tell you not to give people hope, you know, false hope and all that kind of stuff, which is not really what our brains need.
• 35:00
  Is not really what our brains need.
• 35:02
  We know that when we are in fear and we are using our have certain emotions, it actually drops our T cell production.
• 35:02
  We know that when we are in fear and we are using our or have certain emotions, it actually drops our T cell production.
• 35:10
  So what they are telling you actually drops the ability for your your killer cells to go in there and boost your immune system.
• 35:10
  So what they are telling you actually drops the ability for your your killer cells to go in there and boost your immune system.
• 35:18
  It's kind of crazy how it all works.
• 35:18
  It's kind of crazy how it all works.
• 35:20
  And this is all scientifically out there.
• 35:20
  And this is all scientifically out there.
• 35:22
  If you look it up, it's all scientifically out there.
• 35:22
  If you look it up, it's all scientifically out there.
• 35:25
  And but yet that's what they do.
• 35:25
  And but yet that's what they do.
• 35:27
  And the minute you get a diagnosis, they put
• 35:27
  And the minute you get a diagnosis, they put basically the fear of God into you and are getting you into surgery right away.
• 35:33
  You don't even have time to think it through.
• 35:35
  You don't have time to get a second opinion.
• 35:37
  It's literally based on fear, and they move you that way.
• 35:41
  So you really can't get out of the system that you get into unless you go in there ahead of time and you know what you're doing.
• 35:50
  I I agree.
• 35:52
  I mean, hope is a not just when you're facing illness, but hope and purpose, I think, are two things that are underrated in terms of quadly quality of life and even longevity.
• 36:04
  You see people that retire seemingly, I've known I know numerous people like this right now.
• 36:10
  They retire.
• 36:12
  Their whole definition of their lives was wrapped up in their work and they retire, they have no purpose, and their health goes just downhill like crazy because they have no, you know, and some of them I'm even known they died within a short period of time of retiring.
• 36:27
  Um, you know, so hope and purpose, I think are two very important things that often are underrated.
• 36:34
  But I think again, I'm always goes back to what are we wired and how were we created?
• 36:38
  And we were created for those two things.
• 36:40
  And I think Karen, you obviously are demonstrating that in your walk with this, not just your spiritual walk, but just through this whole ordeal.
• 36:51
  Yeah, I feel like a lot of the situations we're put into.
• 36:56
  Um, you know, I a lot of what I've walked through with my daughter and myself over the past 10, 15 years, I feel like I can use um in our practice and helping our clients who are walking through a lot of the same situations.
• 37:10
  So just using them all as teaching moments.
• 37:14
  And and you um got into some of the natural health exploring those things because of your daughter, right?
• 37:20
  And some things looking for alternative help for her versus what the medical years ago, what the medical system had offered.
• 37:28
  Is it is that correct?
• 37:30
  Yeah, that's correct.
• 37:31
  Probably about 15 years ago when she was five years old.
• 37:35
  Um, I started to recognize that the medical system wasn't giving us the help that we needed.
• 37:41
  They weren't looking for the root cause of the issues that she was having.
• 37:45
  So that's when I really started to look around at you know, more holistic options to try to get to the root cause of the problem and not just put some band-aids on it.
• 37:57
  Um thank goodness she is thriving and doing wonderful and is a naturopath now.
• 38:03
  Is she really?
• 38:04
  She is, and a nutrition coach, yeah.
• 38:07
  So she took what she learned through all of the craziness and is trying to help other people through it.
• 38:12
  So here again, your experience, not just with what you have for as a professional experience.
• 38:17
  You had this as a personal experience that looking with someone who had health issues and exploring options uh made all the difference in the world versus that kind of merry-go-round of back and forth with what the system told you to do.
• 38:31
  Exactly.
• 38:32
  Exactly.
• 38:34
  And I think that's with so many people.
• 38:37
  Um, and there again, the system doesn't want to hear it.
• 38:41
  They don't want to hear that, you know, hey, I had that they just write you off when you even try to offer an alternative story.
• 38:47
  Well, positive alternative story.
• 38:50
  And I think that especially during COVID, a lot of the nurses, physicians, and stuff like that who were caught in that system, um, kind of woke up and have walked away, which leaves us an even more dangerous system than e than years before, because a lot of the good medical providers are now saying, I can't do this anymore.
• 39:14
  I and that's why I think you see in uh upsurgents in um, you know, um prescription or not subscription-based health care in doctors walking into we've interviewed several on this show, Stephanie, that are working independently as medical medical doctors, you know, with an experience just like Karen with that experience in the medical system.
• 39:35
  You see uh upsurgence in um natural health or a combination kind of hybrid natural health, medical.
• 39:43
  Um, you know, so there are all of these different options, I think as people are waking up to some degree and seeing that this doesn't make any sense.
• 39:51
  Yeah, I I completely agree.
• 39:54
  Karen, where do you see, you know, based on your experience, do you think that there is hope that things could change?
• 40:02
  I pray that there is.
• 40:04
  I pray that more people's eyes are being opened.
• 40:07
  Um, and you know, I think we need to share our story so that you know, more people can feel more equipped when they're put into these situations because when we have other people surrounding us who have gone through it and can just help to give guidance, you know, and support.
• 40:25
  I think that's huge.
• 40:28
  I think you know, the big tactic with this, and you mentioned it, they argued with you in the waiting room in the middle of everybody.
• 40:34
  They almost can become um confrontational and belittling.
• 40:39
  Yeah.
• 40:39
  Oh, very much so.
• 40:41
  And I I had a dermatologist in 2021 uh look at me and she said, Are you did you get the COVID vex?
• 40:47
  And I said, No, and I gave my reasons and so forth.
• 40:50
  And she kept arguing about that.
• 40:51
  I said, Well, respectfully, I'm not gonna do that.
• 40:54
  You know, I went and she literally said to me, Do you realize how stupid you sound?
• 40:58
  And I responded as stupid as you do, trying to push this on me.
• 41:02
  And then late, then she said she found something on my leg and had to burn it out and in and gave me incredible pain.
• 41:08
  And to this day, I don't believe that that she actually, I just felt like she wanted to torture me.
• 41:12
  But when I was checking out, she was behind the counter telling all the other staff about the stupid person she had just encountered.
• 41:20
  Oh my word, that's terrible.
• 41:22
  It is terrible.
• 41:23
  But it's the same thing, but it's that you have to, and we I say that just like Karen did, you have to be be willing to stand your ground if you really believe it, because they can they can make you feel like you don't know what you're talking about.
• 41:34
  And she she's somewhat it would be harder for a lot of us because we don't have that medical background.
• 41:39
  Karen's somebody who had you know very good reasons and personal insight and into what she was doing.
• 41:46
  So you really have to stand up or be willing to.
• 41:48
  Well, and oh, go ahead.
• 41:51
  No, that's okay.
• 41:52
  Go ahead.
• 41:53
  I was just gonna say, I try to equip um our clients with that when they're in the situation where they need to, you know, I a lot of women who need to go get a breast ultrasound.
• 42:00
  You know, I a lot of women who need to go get a breast ultrasound.
• 42:04
  And I tell them my story to help to equip them when they're there.
• 42:04
  And and I tell them my story to help to equip them when they're there, so they're prepared because when you're on the spot, sometimes it's hard to, you know, have the words to say.
• 42:08
  So they're prepared.
• 42:10
  Because when you're on the spot, sometimes it's hard to, you know, have the words to say.
• 42:15
  But if someone has equipped you for that and you're prepared, it's a little bit easier.
• 42:15
  But if someone has equipped you for that and you're prepared, it's a little bit easier.
• 42:20
  Can you explain the thermogram versus uh a mammogram?
• 42:20
  Can you explain the thermogram versus uh a mammogram?
• 42:24
  What that is and what's the difference and why maybe one versus the other.
• 42:24
  What that is and what's the difference and why maybe one versus the other.
• 42:29
  So a thermogram.
• 42:29
  So a thermogram just uses heat.
• 42:32
  Um, so it looks at heat in the body.
• 42:34
  So literally nothing touches you.
• 42:37
  It's less than five minutes.
• 42:39
  Um, there's just pictures being taken of your breast in different areas.
• 42:44
  And um that's that's it.
• 42:47
  And you'll get a report back that shows if there's any areas of of heat or inflammation that could be suspicious.
• 42:55
  Um, whereas a mammogram, we all know does a little bit of squishing and doesn't feel so good.
• 43:02
  And I feel like, you know, is just not a safe thing to do with the radiation, especially for someone starting at age 30 and having to do them the rest of their lives.
• 43:13
  That's quite a lot of radiation over time.
• 43:16
  Yeah, I believe on a low on a low level, meaning because they're each machine has a different radiation level, actually, like it's not all across the board the same.
• 43:25
  So the lowest radi radiation that you would get with one of these things, about two months worth of living that you would get just living is what you're getting in one mammogram.
• 43:36
  But a lot of times the thermogram is not covered by insurance, correct?
• 43:41
  Correct.
• 43:42
  So again, the less the easier, quicker thing is not covered for whatever reason.
• 43:50
  Correct.
• 43:53
  And so if people choose to get a thermogram, which um, you know, uh sounds like a viable option, that that would be out of pocket in most cases.
• 44:04
  It's it's out of pocket, but it's it, you know, what's interesting is they're also going to try to force you into if something happens, they're gonna try to force you into the mammogram.
• 44:13
  And that's really where you need to get a doctor, nurse practitioner, someone on your side who can navigate you through what's about to happen to you, because the current the current providers are not going to be on your side, unfortunately, even if you are making an informed decision.
• 44:35
  Well, and I think, and Karen, tell me if I'm wrong.
• 44:38
  You hit on it a little bit.
• 44:39
  And I know we've had other physicians on here who've talked about this.
• 44:42
  Today's medical is so specialized.
• 44:44
  You have one doctor.
• 44:45
  I know we went through this with our daughter when she was sick and young.
• 44:48
  Um, you have the cardiologist looking at the heart.
• 44:51
  You've got the um uh the GI doctor looking at the digestive system.
• 44:56
  You got this person, they tell only look at their little area.
• 44:59
  I know we had problems with our daughter because one would change all the stuff and then another one would come in and change it until one doctor said, I'm gonna look at this whole the whole situation.
• 45:08
  So they they a lot of times only are treating that little thing without looking at the entire, as you said, body, right?
• 45:15
  And the root causes of why are we having this?
• 45:18
  And that's not just with cancer, that's with anything.
• 45:21
  Oh, yeah, that's huge.
• 45:22
  I mean, working in the hospital system, uh, I saw that for almost every patient.
• 45:28
  Um, they they had a consult for every little thing, you know, you would call and say, you might my patient is having some stomach issues.
• 45:36
  Well, the the regular medical doctor wouldn't deal with it.
• 45:39
  Oh, let's get GI involved.
• 45:40
  You know, it was getting to the point of being ridiculous.
• 45:45
  Um, and I'm sure a way to make extra money to consult more and more people in.
• 45:50
  And we see that now with the clients that come into our practice is that um, you know, they see all of these different doctors, but none of them talk, and some of the things they're on kind of contradict each other.
• 46:06
  Um prescription med you mean.
• 46:08
  Yeah.
• 46:09
  Yeah, yeah.
• 46:10
  Yep.
• 46:11
  Oh, yeah.
• 46:12
  It's a shame.
• 46:13
  Uh I was talking to a pharmacist recently who said it's very not uncommon to have people coming in filling 10, 15, 20 different prescriptions, you know, for different, you have this, then they give you this to treat the um, you know, the side effects from the other thing, and it's a whole circle, a vicious circle.
• 46:32
  And then that makes you somewhat sicker or dependent.
• 46:36
  Right, right.
• 46:36
  No, that's so true.
• 46:38
  The side effects.
• 46:40
  It is shock.
• 46:40
  I mean, it it is shocking because most of the doctors are not willing to take you off of medication, another doctor prescribed.
• 46:49
  So it just keeps on adding up, adding up, adding up.
• 46:52
  And people are having all these side effects, and no one is willing to look at the medication list and say, you know, maybe we need to reduce this or get off of this one.
• 47:01
  You know, I'll I'll see I I don't know.
• 47:04
  I I hear stories where people are on three different types of medication for the same issue, and no one is really managing their stuff, and your primary care physicians have really just become a referral.
• 47:16
  They they just come in, they write a referral.
• 47:18
  And if you go in there for one issue, you say, Oh, but you know, for some reason this also developed, oh, you'll have to create another appointment for that.
• 47:27
  They won't even see you.
• 47:28
  I had that happen.
• 47:29
  I said, could you look at this while I'm here?
• 47:31
  And they're like, no, you'll have to make another appointment.
• 47:32
  And I was like, how how crazy is that?
• 47:34
  Right.
• 47:35
  It's just, I feel like it's just all a big money laundering scheme, honestly, between the doctors, and then not that the doctors are intentionally doing it.
• 47:44
  I don't believe that at all.
• 47:45
  But that's truly what's happening because it's the method that they've been taught.
• 47:49
  Well, and I think a lot of it too is the CYA for the litigation, because there are uh legal practices that earn their livelihood and substantial uh amounts of money by suing doctors and uh medical systems.
• 48:03
  So they order those tests to say, well, we covered it because we got these extra tests.
• 48:07
  So if they're ever sued, it's a CYA.
• 48:10
  It's just a whole giant circle of yuck.
• 48:15
  It it is.
• 48:16
  Do you have any like Karen?
• 48:19
  Do you have any message that you want to give people to let them know that you know things can be different or how you would handle things, just on your experience, you know, is there anything that you want you want people to know and leave here with?
• 48:36
  I mean, I think a big one is just, you know, if if you're at the doctor's office and get a diagnosis that, you know, is is one that you don't want to hear, just not to immediately have that sense of fear set in and listen to everything they say at that appointment.
• 48:56
  You go home, pray about it, reach out to to other people who you know might be able to guide you down, you know, um another path if that's what your heart is telling you to do, or just to help you navigate through things.
• 49:00
  Out to other people who you know might be able to guide you down, you know, um another path if that's what your heart is telling you to do, or just to help you navigate through things, um, because we don't have to walk through these situations alone, and we don't need to live by fear, you know, we just need to trust that the Lord has a plan for us and trust in that plan.
• 49:13
  Um, because we don't have to walk through these situations alone, and we don't need to live by fear, you know, we just need to trust that the Lord has a plan for us and trust in that plan.
• 49:26
  And not be afraid to seek out other opinions.
• 49:26
  And not be afraid to seek out other opinions from and I say professionals, you know, in your case, there again, I keep reiterating that you came from this with a great deal of experience that most of us would not have, but to seek so to seek out those professional opinions and an alternative voice.
• 49:46
  And I I think that a big part of this, Kathy, is that never I I go back, I remember when I was younger, they're like, do not, you know, you go to a used car salesman, they put the pressure on you.
• 49:58
  Oh, here's the promo, and you feel like, oh, I've got to do this right now, I'm gonna miss out, right?
• 50:03
  And that's kind of this the psychological system that the hospital is using.
• 50:08
  If you don't do this right now, you're going to die.
• 50:11
  You're doomed.
• 50:12
  You're doomed, right?
• 50:13
  I will never forget when I refused um the flu shot for my then six-month-year-old.
• 50:18
  They're like, Well, it's gonna be your fault and end up in the hospital and die.
• 50:22
  Well, guess what?
• 50:23
  It's been 15 years, and I've only had one flu case go through my house out of five children.
• 50:28
  Five.
• 50:29
  And oddly enough, he's perfectly fine.
• 50:32
  You know, but they would have had me believe that my children were gonna die because I refused their their vaccine.
• 50:41
  It's all based on on fear, and so you've got to take yourself out of that and say, okay, what is my next step?
• 50:49
  Because most of us, if most of us would go out and go shopping and see, okay, what other options do I have?
• 50:56
  And they don't really allow you to do that with the psychological manipulation that they're using within corporate medicine.
• 51:03
  They make you afraid to.
• 51:05
  And so I think that people just need to step back from those moments when you do have those fears when you see that they're using those tactics.
• 51:13
  That's your that is your sign.
• 51:15
  That's your red flag to say, okay, let me see what else is going on.
• 51:19
  Let me get more information.
• 51:21
  Find the doctor that you are most comfortable with who is not who are not walking in fear, but give helping you walk, like walk along with you and giving you information and education so that you can make a reasonable decision.
• 51:36
  That's who you need to walk beside, not the person who's gonna be the fear of God in you.
• 51:41
  I I agree.
• 51:42
  I mean, it's psychological manipulation.
• 51:44
  I think we saw that on steroids during COVID, you know, with the death meters on the TV screen.
• 51:50
  Yes, and um, the if you don't get vaccinated, you're gonna kill everyone else, you know, which all of those people that I know that did not get vaccinated seem to be healthy and fine.
• 52:00
  Um oddly, not one has has died from COVID who did not be able to do it.
• 52:06
  None of our friends know.
• 52:08
  No, and um I've been looking.
• 52:10
  You've been looking.
• 52:11
  I've been looking.
• 52:14
  Um and I think you know, I that's what opened my eyes.
• 52:17
  2020 opened my eyes to it, because I most of the for most of the part the large part of my life would, if they said do this, I'd say okay, because they're the doctor.
• 52:28
  Um, but when I saw like this doesn't make any sense, when I saw physicians highly esteemed, we talked about Dr.
• 52:34
  Peter McCullough lately, later earlier.
• 52:36
  I'm sorry, um, the most published cardiologist in the um country or world, you know, being vilified because he dared say something different.
• 52:46
  That's what opened my eyes to say, wait a second, maybe there's more to this when we talk about people going through years and years of medical school, but never focus on nutrition for more than 30 minutes.
• 52:57
  Um, and I know we've had different people on the air talk about that who are doctors and MDs.
• 53:03
  That to me was like, wait a second, you know, but yet lots of uh opportunity to prescribe very um lucrative medications, yes, manufactured medications.
• 53:15
  It then I just started to say, wait a second.
• 53:18
  And I I think more people have to think about that, just think.
• 53:22
  Just think it through.
• 53:23
  You know, the other thing I would say think through is that right now they're developing a vaccine for Lyme disease.
• 53:30
  So you I be on the lookout.
• 53:33
  Know now to be on the lookout for increased fear tactics, because that's your sign that perhaps things are not as organic as they are.
• 53:43
  You know, you you have to be aware of how they run things and do things, and anytime that you are sitting in fear, that should be a red flag.
• 53:52
  I don't care whether it's a relationship with your doctor, a relationship with your spouse, a relationship with anything, or walking in store and fearing that you're gonna miss out on the deal, all of it is bad news, should be a red flag, and for you to walk away.
• 54:05
  You know, the other thing I think my husband and I always laugh at this when you see the commercials for the pharmaceuticals, and then they have to give the list of things that could go wrong with you.
• 54:14
  I will frequently say, I think I'd rather have the skin condition than having like my arms fall off, or you know, whatever they say.
• 54:21
  So it's so true.
• 54:22
  And you know, the other thing that kind of cracks me up is most of the medications, one of the side effects is whatever it's healing, like it's literally a listed side effect.
• 54:31
  Like if you have fibromyalgia, this drug may cause fibromyalgia.
• 54:35
  Like the COVID vax.
• 54:38
  If you get the vaccine, you may get COVID.
• 54:40
  Right.
• 54:40
  Why are you getting it?
• 54:42
  You know, and the other thing that kind of cracks me up, it are these people say, Well, it lessens the effects.
• 54:46
  How do you know?
• 54:48
  There's no way to really show that it lessens the effect because my COVID was very easy to get through.
• 54:54
  I slept for a few days and that was it.
• 54:57
  You know, other people's COVIDs are gonna be much more severe because they don't take care of their immune system.
• 55:03
  There's no way to know whether that lessens your impact or not, because we're also different.
• 55:08
  Like if someone says that to me, I just want to.
• 55:11
  I I do have violent thoughts in my head at that point.
• 55:13
  I'm just thinking, how stupid can you be to believe that?
• 55:16
  You know, I give myself as an example, Stephanie, since you got me turned on to the natural stuff.
• 55:21
  I had COVID in 2021.
• 55:23
  You and I had it about the same time.
• 55:25
  Uh ironically, box for a medical freedom rally.
• 55:30
  So I've not had a cold since that time, since 2021.
• 55:36
  And um, again, everybody gets sick, their germs.
• 55:39
  I'm not saying that, and I knock on wood when every time I say that, but to me, that's just proof.
• 55:43
  And I used to be that person who had strep throat every year.
• 55:45
  I had this and that.
• 55:46
  I just haven't, but I've changed my lifestyle largely, take a couple supplements, and I feel better, feel better than I did 20, 30 years ago.
• 55:54
  Yeah, and and I'm pretty sure you've lost some wrinkles as well.
• 55:58
  Do you know what?
• 55:59
  I was recently at a conference, and a woman who's actually works at a very large insurance company, ironically, came up to me and goes, Oh my word, you look so much younger.
• 56:00
  A conference and a woman who's actually works at a very large insurance company, ironically, came up to me and goes, Oh my word, you look so much younger.
• 56:07
  What are you doing?
• 56:07
  What are you doing?
• 56:08
  That's what she said.
• 56:08
  That's what she said.
• 56:09
  You look so much younger.
• 56:09
  You look so much younger.
• 56:10
  Was that after the tincture I gave you?
• 56:10
  Was that after the tincture I gave you?
• 56:13
  I I don't questioning.
• 56:13
  I I don't know questioning.
• 56:15
  Oh my god.
• 56:15
  Oh my god.
• 56:15
  You know what?
• 56:15
  You know what?
• 56:16
  Oh my gosh, it was.
• 56:16
  Oh my gosh, it was.
• 56:17
  See?
• 56:17
  See?
• 56:18
  See, I noticed.
• 56:18
  See, I noticed, yeah.
• 56:19
  Yeah, I was looking at you yesterday.
• 56:19
  I was looking at you yesterday.
• 56:20
  I'm like, I really think that tinker worked.
• 56:20
  I'm like, I really think that tincture worked.
• 56:22
  We need more of that.
• 56:22
  We need more of that.
• 56:23
  I haven't had my bottle when I saw you yesterday to refill it, and I forgot to give it to you.
• 56:23
  I even had my bottle when I saw you yesterday to refill it, and I forgot to give it to you.
• 56:27
  Well, we're gonna take care of that because you are looking younger.
• 56:27
  Well, we're gonna take care of that because you are looking younger and younger by the day, madam.
• 56:32
  Okay.
• 56:33
  So, you know, I'm so happy that uh Karen was able to come on, share her story to educate other people and to give them hope and guidance.
• 56:41
  So wherever you are, to the extent that you are able, stand up, step forward and speak out, and I'm gonna tell you.