Latest / All Bodies. All Foods. / 34. From ED Recovery to Gender Fluidity and Everything In-between

Transcript

34. From ED Recovery to Gender Fluidity and Everything In-between · All Bodies. All Foods.

0:01
Hey,
0:01
I'm Sam.
0:02
Hi,
0:03
I'm Ashley.
0:04
And you're listening to All Bodies All Foods presented by the Renfrew Center for Eating Disorders.
0:09
We want to create a space for all bodies to come together authentically and purposefully to discuss various areas that impact us on a cultural and relational level.
0:19
We believe that all bodies and all foods are welcome.
0:23
We would love for you to join us on this journey.
0:26
Let's learn together.
0:29
Hello,
0:30
everyone and welcome to another episode of All Bodies.
0:33
All Foods.
0:34
Ashley and Sam are here and we are delighted to have a guest with us today,
0:39
Zoe Stoller Zoe,
0:41
be She,
0:42
he is a licensed social worker educator and creator whose passion is spreading LGBT Q plus knowledge,
0:51
mental health,
0:51
visibility and overall authenticity through the power of social media.
0:57
Zoe's goals in their work are to break stigmas surrounding these topics,
1:02
create resources with free and accessible education and to empower her community to be their fullest,
1:09
most authentic selves.
1:11
So,
1:11
Zoe,
1:11
thank you so much for joining us today.
1:14
Thank you so much for having me.
1:16
Yeah.
1:17
So for those of you listening,
1:19
Zoe and I first met,
1:20
we did an Instagram live earlier this year during Pride Month to honor Pride Month.
1:26
And um I just remember being,
1:29
you know,
1:30
Instagram live is so interesting because you are live,
1:32
right?
1:33
And you're just,
1:34
you're in it,
1:35
you're on,
1:36
you know,
1:36
and I just remember hearing you speak Zoe and thinking I wanna hear more from you.
1:42
I wanna,
1:43
I wanna learn more.
1:44
You,
1:45
you have so much um knowledge and wisdom and your social media content is just absolutely incredible and,
1:53
and I think life giving and so I would just love to hear from you.
1:58
What kind of,
1:59
what is your story?
2:00
A little background about yourself?
2:02
And how did you find yourself at this path of being a social media content creator?
2:08
Thank you so,
2:09
so much.
2:09
You're so sweet.
2:10
Um Yeah,
2:10
I'm so excited to be here to,
2:11
to share more about myself and my journey.
2:14
Um So I started doing social media content creation about 3.5 years ago now,
2:20
um at the beginning of the pandemic,
2:22
a lot of us during quarantine found new hobbies um for me that was social media and that really stemmed from um a lot of self discovery that I had gone through the,
2:31
the previous season,
2:32
fall 2019.
2:33
Um I had been really questioning my gender and been very,
2:36
very confused about who I was.
2:39
Um because my identity kept shifting and changing and my connection to different words and um experiences kept shifting and changing and I was so confused.
2:47
Um And so I,
2:48
in fall 2019 decided to go on social media and just decided to look around and see if anybody else was experiencing the same thing.
2:56
And what I found on social media was honestly so empowering and life changing.
3:00
Um I found people who were experiencing the exact same thing that I was and in fact,
3:04
had a word for it,
3:05
gender fluid.
3:06
Um and gave me so much knowledge and just grounding in who I was.
3:12
And I realized that social media has so much power and potential to spread this kind of information that isn't really talked about in the mainstream world.
3:21
And for me,
3:22
it was so life changing,
3:24
so helpful for my mental health for just my sense of self in general.
3:27
Um And I wanted to give back and do what others had done for me.
3:31
And so I decided to become a social media creator and I have a background in marketing and in creative writing and content creation.
3:39
So it definitely wasn't a,
3:41
a new foray for me.
3:43
Um But what was new was shit about myself and my experiences and talking about the LGBT Q community,
3:51
which in turn meant researching about the LGBT Q community learning more because I was still at the beginning of my journey 3.5 years ago,
3:59
um I knew that I was queer uh but still I was discovering all these new identities,
4:03
all these new ways of being uh that I that in turn was sharing about online.
4:07
Um And I realized how passionate I was about the content creation that I was doing.
4:12
Um the community that I was forming online,
4:15
the impact that hopefully I was having on people in the same way that people were having on me.
4:19
Uh And it was just so,
4:21
so life,
4:22
life changing,
4:23
just being a creator in the same way that it was life changing,
4:25
receiving that creation from others.
4:27
Um So I decided to just continue.
4:30
And 3.5 years later,
4:31
here I am.
4:32
Um you know,
4:33
I still love social media even more now than ever.
4:36
And of course,
4:37
it comes with this challenges.
4:38
Um And it's,
4:39
you know,
4:39
not without,
4:40
you know,
4:40
hate and people who are,
4:42
are unkind,
4:43
but overall,
4:44
um the benefits in the community that I,
4:46
I have found have been able to create has just been so wonderful and I'm so honored to be in this space to be able to do what I'm doing.
4:53
Yeah,
4:54
that's awesome.
4:55
And,
4:55
and I'm thinking like,
4:56
so part of the reason we do this show is both to bring in people who,
5:02
who want language,
5:04
who want information,
5:05
who need resources,
5:06
who need help and then also to help providers um who also need language and resources and help,
5:13
right?
5:14
And so I'm just thinking about like,
5:16
um I love it when we have guests on that can share like from their own personal experience.
5:23
And I'm just curious,
5:25
what did that give you like to be able to openly and honestly and authentically just speak from your own experience,
5:36
especially on social media.
5:39
That was definitely different for me.
5:41
Um I,
5:42
you know,
5:43
had kind of grown up and,
5:45
and entered my young adulthood,
5:46
being very closed off,
5:48
uh keeping a lot of my feelings to myself.
5:50
But in my young adulthood,
5:52
I also had seen that that has a really negative impact on me,
5:55
you know,
5:56
not sharing and keeping all of my feelings bottled up inside until they explode.
6:00
And,
6:01
um,
6:01
you know,
6:01
as scary as it can be to be vulnerable,
6:04
you know,
6:04
with friends,
6:05
let alone a bunch of strangers on the internet.
6:07
Uh In the end,
6:08
it just makes me feel a lot better and a lot more connected to myself to other people around me.
6:15
Um And a lot more powerful too in being able to lean into that vulnerability and leaning into things that make me uncomfortable.
6:22
Um because,
6:23
you know,
6:23
sometimes the things that are really meaningful for us and best for us are the things that are uncomfortable and it's great to push yourselves out of our comfort zone.
6:30
And of course,
6:31
now it,
6:31
it is a lot easier for me to just kind of speak openly and vulnerably um to whoever.
6:36
But um that's been,
6:38
you know,
6:38
a journey and it's still a journey.
6:39
So,
6:40
um but overall again,
6:42
I've seen such positive mental health benefits from it.
6:45
And so it's really,
6:46
really lovely to be able to,
6:48
to be authentic in the world.
6:52
I would say that's like one of the biggest things we want our clients to know is that being authentically you is just so life giving and helpful and when you're able to speak your needs and speak your truths and,
7:08
and you know,
7:08
share with others with the people that support you and love you and care for you.
7:14
Um It,
7:15
it just,
7:16
it builds us up so much more than keeping it bottled in.
7:21
Mm mhm Yes,
7:23
that's for sure.
7:24
And I really have seen that so many of my mental health struggles and my mental health crises have come from not being able to be open with others and not sharing my needs.
7:34
Um So really,
7:35
I try to hold on to those things now because I see how important it is for my own self wellness.
7:40
Yeah.
7:40
Right.
7:41
Right.
7:42
So you talked about how important language has been in your journey and finding language to describe your experience was very healing for you.
7:53
And so now part of content creation is teaching people about language and it's like there,
7:59
there are words for,
8:01
for what you're experiencing.
8:02
Would you be able to share a little bit about what are some of the words that you think really need to be out there more a part of the vernacular,
8:12
you know,
8:12
what are the words we need to know that would help people feel not so alone.
8:19
Definitely.
8:20
Well,
8:20
first,
8:20
I'll say that of course,
8:21
not everybody feels seen and connected to words.
8:24
Not everybody labels their identity that is totally valid as well.
8:28
I personally,
8:29
I love words.
8:29
I love language.
8:30
I was an English major in college.
8:31
So I really find a lot of power from being able to articulate my experiences.
8:36
Not everybody does.
8:38
So,
8:38
either way that's completely valid um For those who do feel seen by language or do feel that that's very important.
8:45
Um I think there are definitely some words that I,
8:48
I'd love to highlight with in the LGBT Q community.
8:50
Um First,
8:51
I'll say the word queer.
8:53
The word definitely has had a bit of an evolution over time.
8:56
Of course,
8:56
it used to be used in a very derogatory way.
8:58
And I think that a lot of people in older generations struggle to use the word or really understand that it's been reclaimed because it was used in such a hateful way in the past.
9:09
Um But nowadays,
9:10
people in the LGBT Q community and beyond have really reclaimed the word um to be a,
9:16
a very,
9:17
very broad open word.
9:19
Um And that's what I love about it that it can really mean anything.
9:22
It can be a sexuality,
9:24
it could be a gender,
9:25
it could be a combination,
9:26
it could be a whole experience.
9:27
Um And what it's really nice about it is that a lot of people um find a home in it when they can't really further articulate their experiences or define them or they don't really know like what else is happening,
9:38
but they know that they are queer and that they are in the LGBT LGBT Q community.
9:43
Um And so that's a really,
9:44
really lovely thing to,
9:45
to have,
9:45
you know,
9:46
just a kind of catch all a word that people can find home.
9:49
So I'll definitely highlight that um another kind of,
9:52
you know,
9:53
dual words that I'll highlight are um AEX and a romantic.
9:58
Uh Those are identities within the LGBT Q community that definitely get left off,
10:03
get forgotten a lot of times.
10:05
Um And within the acronym LGBT Qi A um that expanded one a can be a sexual,
10:10
a romantic,
10:11
could also be a gender,
10:12
there's a lot of things there,
10:13
but um people tend to forget about these experiences.
10:16
And so for those who aren't familiar um as sexual people,
10:20
um are those who don't experience typical quote unquote sexual attraction according to society or they only do so in a limited way or in certain experiences.
10:29
Um And then a romantic is the kind of romantic counterpart.
10:33
Um So these two identities are vast,
10:36
vast spectrums,
10:37
there are so many sub identities within them and I love talking about the sub labels and sub identities within those as well.
10:43
And I have a whole series um for each of those within my page on social media.
10:49
So that's really fun.
10:49
Um But what's great about those is that I've seen a lot of people really don't have a like quote unquote,
10:57
typical normative,
10:58
like sexual and a romantic experience according to what society would tell you you should be experiencing in terms of your sexual or romantic attraction.
11:06
I myself fall within these spectrums.
11:09
Um And for a while I thought that there was something wrong with me for not wanting sex in the same way that other people did or feeling uncomfortable with certain things.
11:17
Um But it turns out that that's just within this larger spectrum and many,
11:21
many people have some kind of nuance within what they,
11:25
you know,
11:25
desire and or feel for attraction.
11:27
So it's really,
11:28
really nice to be able to highlight those words within,
11:31
you know,
11:32
the larger spectrum that they contain as well.
11:34
So those are kind of the,
11:36
the larger language components that I would highlight for today.
11:38
Although there's so many more that I could talk about as well.
11:40
Of course,
11:41
well,
11:41
we're gonna have to direct our audience to all your content.
11:44
So they can see,
11:45
I'm just curious,
11:46
you know,
11:47
when you realized there's a word for this,
11:51
how did that impact your mental health?
11:53
It was incredible.
11:54
Um As I said,
11:55
I love words,
11:57
I love being able to articulate my experiences um and name what I'm feeling.
12:02
I found that I have a lot more power and control over like what I'm feeling and being,
12:08
you know,
12:08
more powered,
12:09
like within that experience when I'm able to name it and say what's happening.
12:13
Um And so for me feeling like I could not articulate what was happening in my gender and my like core sense of self,
12:20
it was really,
12:21
really destabilizing.
12:23
Um It was scary even I felt really just unsure and certain,
12:28
scared again um questioning and I didn't know what's happening and like,
12:32
of course,
12:32
that's gonna affect so many other aspects of your life,
12:35
your mental health.
12:36
Um But then again,
12:37
when I found the word gender fluid,
12:39
it,
12:39
it literally was a complete one ed in that moment um just being able to suddenly ground myself within a word.
12:46
And I know that I'm not alone in that experience.
12:49
Uh Many other people just feel so seen um in being able to have a word because of course,
12:55
that means that they're not alone in what they're experiencing other people have experienced this too um to the degree that they have to make a word for it.
13:04
So,
13:05
uh it's,
13:05
it's really amazing.
13:07
And again,
13:07
that's why I love to highlight and focus on LGBT Q language within my work.
13:13
Absolutely.
13:13
That's why we wanted to talk about it on here for sure.
13:16
So our audience can hear too.
13:18
Yeah,
13:18
it feels like you mentioned,
13:21
like all of these can have like a larger kind of spectrum and what that tells me is it gives people permission,
13:29
um,
13:30
to kind of feel like to move back and forth,
13:33
you know,
13:34
and that be ok.
13:36
And that like,
13:37
and so because that's ok,
13:39
they can normalize that within their own experience.
13:43
And,
13:43
and I would imagine it helps them to feel less like they live on an island by themselves where nobody understands them.
13:50
No.
13:51
You know,
13:51
and,
13:51
and they don't even understand that and like that ability to move back and forth and be fluid as the word even says in,
13:59
in these various um you know,
14:01
gender identities.
14:03
Um a,
14:05
a romantic.
14:06
Is that what you mentioned?
14:07
And Yeah,
14:09
exactly.
14:10
Yeah.
14:10
Yeah,
14:13
I imagine it's really freeing.
14:15
Yeah.
14:16
Did you,
14:17
did you have that experience uh learning about when you discovered that there's even a spectrum,
14:22
it's not only the word but there's a spectrum.
14:24
Yes,
14:25
it definitely is free.
14:26
And I think that's a perfect word.
14:27
Um because societal messaging definitely gives us very constricting ideas of what our identities can be.
14:35
And a lot of us,
14:36
most of us I would even guess do not fit strictly within that.
14:39
And so I know I felt very constrained and very stuck,
14:43
very trapped when I was really performing the identity that I was given by society,
14:48
the,
14:48
you know,
14:48
sense of womanhood that I thought I had to be.
14:50
Um And then real,
14:52
I think that there's so much more than that and,
14:54
you know,
14:54
not only one thing but a whole entire spectrum of potential.
14:59
And like I can have an identity that is so unique to me that no one else even has it,
15:02
but it can still be within a larger word that other people understand.
15:06
Like that's incredible.
15:07
And that's not,
15:08
that's not something I was taught or given growing up.
15:11
And I wish I had been because I probably would not have felt so trapped and so stuck and so unhappy in my youth.
15:20
And I think the language also opens up the ability to find a community of other folks.
15:27
I mean,
15:27
when we don't have the language to sort of talk about this stuff,
15:31
we can't find other people who are also experiencing it.
15:34
That's definitely true.
15:36
Yes.
15:36
And then that the only furthers our isolation which can further our mental health struggles.
15:41
It's,
15:41
you know,
15:41
it's a,
15:42
it's a whole cycle but the more that we can be among others and be,
15:47
you know,
15:47
sharing and receiving community love validation uh that just builds us up so much in so many positive ways.
15:54
Yeah.
15:55
Absolutely.
15:56
Um Zoe,
15:57
I was reading through some of your information and I saw that um both depression and some,
16:04
some parts of suicidal ideation were a part of your story at one time.
16:09
And um I actually went online to the Trevor project and got some information from them and I would love to share it with you and just kind of get your take on it if that sounds.
16:19
Ok.
16:19
Yeah,
16:19
that'd be great.
16:20
Ok.
16:21
So,
16:21
and I'll also note that they,
16:23
the Trevor project conducted this survey um between October and December of 2020 they had almost 35,000 LGBT Q youth um participate that they recruited online um with targeted ads on social media.
16:38
So,
16:39
of that group of that sample,
16:42
9% of LGBT Q youth ages 13 through 24 stated that they had been diagnosed with an eating disorder with.
16:51
So that was only 9% of that 35,000.
16:54
However,
16:55
an additional 29% stated they haven't ever been diagnosed but suspect that they might have an eating disorder.
17:04
And then um the next thing I would like to read is LGBT Q youth who had been diagnosed with an eating disorder had nearly four times greater odds of attempting suicide in the past year compared to those who had never been suspected nor had an eating disorder diagnosis.
17:22
And so I'm just curious.
17:24
Yeah.
17:24
So if you can speak to any of this and,
17:26
and what maybe you see in the work that you do?
17:30
Definitely,
17:31
I mean,
17:31
those are,
17:32
you know,
17:32
very sad statistics of course.
17:35
Um but it unfortunately makes a lot of sense within the context of society.
17:39
Um LGBT Q people,
17:41
especially LGBT Q youth have a lot of struggles.
17:44
Um And I believe you said this is a 2020 study.
17:47
So especially during the pandemic.
17:49
I mean,
17:49
we can just completely understand the added burden there.
17:53
But um you know,
17:55
LGBT Q youth maybe who are living with family,
17:58
who don't understand them or don't have community or support or don't fully understand their identities.
18:02
There's so many ways that uh you know,
18:04
people could kind of be struggling internally with their identity or with other things and it's really easy for that to then translate into an eating disorder or um suicidal ideation or kind of just turning,
18:16
turning that struggle and that,
18:18
you know,
18:19
inner turmoil to yourself in order to try to quell it and,
18:23
or,
18:23
you know,
18:23
disconnect from yourself in some way,
18:26
um in order not to,
18:27
you know,
18:27
feel the pain that you're feeling and I,
18:30
you know,
18:30
I definitely relate.
18:31
Um as you share,
18:32
I've had those experiences in my own life.
18:35
I've struggled with an eating disorder.
18:36
I've struggled with um suicidal ideation in my past.
18:39
Um I,
18:40
and a lot of that really stemmed from not having a community,
18:45
not having a full understanding of myself.
18:48
Um and really trying to perform um and be what society,
18:53
you know,
18:53
expected of me in terms of my gender,
18:55
in terms of my sexuality.
18:56
Um And in my case,
18:59
uh I remember it never felt right that performance.
19:03
Um And I knew that,
19:05
but I took it to mean that there was something wrong with me because I didn't really understand that there were so many other possibilities for identity and support and community.
19:13
Um I really had kind of just segmented myself solely within,
19:17
you know,
19:17
societal boxes.
19:18
Um And then I took out all of my frustration,
19:22
all of my stuff on myself.
19:24
Um And it is really sad when that happens.
19:26
Um And,
19:28
you know,
19:28
when people don't really have full education or understanding of how to healthily process their feelings,
19:35
oftentimes,
19:36
there's only one way that your feelings can go,
19:38
you know,
19:38
you take it out on others or you take it out on yourself if you don't know how to kind of process it in a healthy way.
19:43
And so it either way it's not good,
19:46
but it's especially challenging when you are taking things,
19:49
you know,
19:49
so deeply out on yourself.
19:51
And again,
19:52
those statistics are,
19:53
are really sad and my hope is that,
19:55
you know,
19:56
the kind of educational work that I am doing and that others are doing can create more spaces where um youth and adults alike can feel seen,
20:06
can feel like they have community and connection.
20:09
Um especially if they don't have that in person,
20:12
then maybe they can do that online.
20:14
Yeah,
20:15
I couldn't agree more.
20:16
I,
20:17
I love,
20:17
I'm so thankful truly for your content and your,
20:20
your various platforms that you um that you have that you're sharing with the community.
20:26
Because I think we know like in eating disorder research,
20:29
we know that a sense of community is a protective factor against even suicidal ideation.
20:35
Um And so to have that one to be educated,
20:39
to have,
20:40
you know,
20:40
the language,
20:41
to have the understanding,
20:43
you know,
20:43
to be able to see the bigger picture here,
20:46
but to,
20:46
to have that sense of community and to feel like a sense of belonging and that you matter and that um other people can relate to you.
20:56
I mean,
20:56
that is so impactful um and can really just give us so much.
21:02
So I really,
21:04
I,
21:04
I want like everybody,
21:05
the masses to like run to your pages and,
21:08
and hear everything that you say.
21:11
Um because I,
21:12
I just feel like those of us that have felt so othered um for so much of our lives can really find peace and community in a lot of the stuff that you're sharing.
21:25
Thank you.
21:25
You're so sweet.
21:26
And I,
21:27
I really tried to,
21:28
you know,
21:28
make content that I could have used when I was younger and that's my goal and I know that,
21:33
you know,
21:33
who I was as a child that is,
21:36
you know,
21:37
I,
21:37
I felt so alone,
21:38
but really,
21:39
I was like so many other people who are out there in the past and today,
21:42
uh so many people really are just searching for community,
21:45
for belonging,
21:46
for that sense that they matter as you said.
21:48
Um That was exactly what I was searching for and I,
21:51
I have found it now.
21:52
Um But I,
21:53
I can try to create content for the gun or me who could have really used that?
21:58
Yeah,
22:00
Zoe,
22:00
I saw you on the news and I was so happy to see you on there.
22:05
Um talking about all of this and these experiences you had even said that gender affirming spaces and,
22:13
and this language really saved your life.
22:15
Yes.
22:17
And there might be audience members out there that are thinking how,
22:21
how was this life saving for you?
22:25
Yeah.
22:25
And it's a great question and if you yourself,
22:28
you know,
22:28
have not really struggled with your identity or your gender,
22:30
you might not fully understand it.
22:32
Um But it's just to put it plainly the pure juxtaposition of feeling like,
22:39
you know,
22:39
a swirling cloud of nothingness like you don't understand yourself,
22:42
like you can't just put a pin in yourself.
22:44
Um And like that just spreads everywhere and then kind of everything just like turns black.
22:49
That's not understanding yourself versus feeling so solidified as a human being able to put a word to yourself,
22:56
being able to like wrap your mind around yourself totally.
22:59
Um Those are just two completely jarringly different experiences.
23:04
I spent a lot of my life in the former,
23:07
just feeling kind of like I was swirling around really trying to,
23:10
to find a place where I could root down.
23:12
Um But feeling so scared and lost in the meantime,
23:16
and again,
23:16
taking that out on myself um and being able to understand my gender be around people who support me and affirm me and care for me,
23:27
finding that care within my medical spaces,
23:29
my therapy spaces,
23:31
um my community spaces everywhere,
23:33
my own personal life being able to then put that on social media,
23:37
all of that has just changed my life just so radically.
23:41
And um you know,
23:43
I,
23:43
I remember the,
23:44
the younger me who,
23:45
who was struggling with suicidal ideation,
23:47
who did not want to be alive.
23:48
And that was that floating sense of self.
23:51
And now I,
23:52
I love being alive.
23:53
I'm so thankful to be alive and it's because I'm so ground and I know who I am,
23:58
what a dramatic,
24:00
you know,
24:00
just transformation where I mean,
24:03
it's,
24:04
it's amazing how,
24:06
how the language and community and all of these things can bring you from total darkness and confusion and despair to feeling whole.
24:17
Yeah.
24:17
And I think it's so important for people to know that to know the power of,
24:23
of having these experiences.
24:26
I agree.
24:27
I agree.
24:28
And there's,
24:28
you know,
24:29
so much legal and political attack on gender fing care um in so many ways right now.
24:35
And it's,
24:36
it's that damaging,
24:38
you know,
24:38
to,
24:39
to bluntly.
24:40
Um And I hope that people listening um and beyond can,
24:43
can my experience and know that it truly is life saving regardless of what kind of care you're getting.
24:49
If your,
24:50
if your gender and your identity is affirmed,
24:52
it is life saving and life changing and anyone who tries to shut that down or take that away from somebody is,
25:02
it's,
25:02
it's awful.
25:03
I,
25:03
you know,
25:03
I could say more but it's.
25:04
Yeah.
25:05
Yeah.
25:06
Yeah.
25:06
Yeah.
25:06
Another um one more thing about the new segment that stood out to me and II,
25:11
I feel like we don't talk about this enough um in mental health,
25:15
in the eating disorder world that the experience of how having body dysmorphia or body image issues and gender dysphoria and the experience of having both.
25:28
And I was wondering if you could shed a little light on that experience.
25:31
So people can better understand the difference and what it's like.
25:35
Definitely.
25:35
So that's been something that I've been exploring within my own life within uh you know,
25:39
the past few years of my recovery.
25:41
And it's been really insightful to kind of piece of heart the differences.
25:45
Um So for those who aren't familiar,
25:47
um gender dysphoria is um kind of a disconnect with your internal sense of self and then the outward way that the world perceives your body or yourself.
25:57
Um And I definitely now understand that I've,
26:00
you know,
26:00
had that sense of dysphoria throughout a lot of my life.
26:03
I'm and quote,
26:04
unquote,
26:04
look very like feminine,
26:06
whatever.
26:07
And so people perceive me in that way.
26:10
Um But I was always very uncomfortable with that and tried to change my body to look less feminine through eating behaviors.
26:17
Um And that's something that I've really been able to recognize now,
26:20
um,
26:20
and then concurrently,
26:22
um,
26:22
body dysmorphia is when you kind of have a distorted sense,
26:27
uh,
26:27
or of like what you look like.
26:29
Um,
26:29
and it's kind of unreliable.
26:31
Maybe it changes from time to time.
26:33
Um,
26:33
and I know a lot of people who,
26:35
um,
26:35
struggle with eating disorders also have that experience.
26:38
Um,
26:39
and that can also fuel a lot of our,
26:41
you know,
26:41
like fixations and eating behaviors as well.
26:44
Um But when you have kind of the two combined,
26:47
it's very confusing because,
26:49
you know,
26:50
one is very eating disorder focused.
26:53
Um And then the other is very like,
26:55
you know,
26:56
gender and identity based and based on how like the larger issues and assumptions within society.
27:01
And uh you know,
27:02
it's,
27:03
it's hard to kind of hold those two together because they are different things and yet they both intertwine in terms of,
27:10
you know,
27:10
at least my recovery and my eating um behaviors in the past and the present and everything like that.
27:15
So,
27:16
um you know,
27:17
it's,
27:17
it's,
27:17
it's very interesting,
27:19
but I think really important for more people,
27:21
especially trans people to be,
27:23
you know,
27:23
aware of those kind of concurrences and understand the ways that um you know,
27:29
their gender might be playing a factor in like larger eating behaviors.
27:34
What were some helpful things that you did,
27:37
Zoe or,
27:38
and maybe I,
27:39
I'm sorry if I just even assumed that this was your experience.
27:43
But um and so if it wasn't,
27:45
you know,
27:45
forgive me.
27:45
But what were some helpful things for you in,
27:49
in kind of finding your grounding in who you were,
27:52
you mentioned that um,
27:55
you know,
27:55
most people might perceive you as feminine but you didn't fully like,
27:59
connect with that.
28:00
So,
28:00
so yeah,
28:00
what were some helpful things for you in this space?
28:04
Yeah.
28:05
Uh That's a great question and I definitely,
28:07
it's,
28:07
you know,
28:07
it's an ongoing process I think.
28:09
But um one thing that I've really kind of leaned into uh in the past years is only wearing clothes that feel good on my body and feel affirming.
28:19
Um I know that,
28:20
you know,
28:20
especially before I really understood my gender and I was kind of slotting myself into like the woman,
28:26
you know,
28:26
society,
28:27
everything.
28:28
Um I was trying to like,
28:30
you know,
28:30
wear all the trendy clothes and the things that I saw like other women wearing um and they never felt like right on and like,
28:37
then I assumed that there was something wrong with my body because they didn't feel right.
28:40
And then it kind of changed my body and like all of that cycle.
28:43
Um But I've realized like,
28:45
probably those clothes didn't feel right because they were not affirming my gender.
28:48
Um Maybe they didn't feel right because of my body stuff as well,
28:51
but mostly gender things.
28:53
Um And so I've really tried to only wear clothes that where I like,
28:57
I put them on my body and it just feels affirm and because of the,
29:01
the nature of the fluidity of my gender that does change from time to time.
29:05
And so I do have kind of fluidity within my wardrobe as well and it does require some like trial and error sometimes.
29:12
Um,
29:12
but I really do try to lean into that and sometimes that is wearing dresses and wearing things that people typically understand as being like women's clothes and,
29:22
you know,
29:22
it is,
29:23
it is challenging on those days because I do know that people probably do make increased assumptions about me and my gender.
29:29
Um I also know that I have a firm sense of who I am and if the stress makes me feel good,
29:34
then that's,
29:35
that's what it is and I want to wear it,
29:36
you know,
29:37
um,
29:37
and I've really tried to just lean into what makes me feel good rather than what is expected of me or what would change people's perceptions of me or anything like that because,
29:48
um,
29:49
you know,
29:49
that's gonna shift and change and I can never really fully judge or,
29:53
uh,
29:53
anticipate what other people are going to think of me.
29:54
But what I can do is feel solid in me and what I'm doing,
30:00
I have been a bigger,
30:01
broader question of that.
30:02
We alluded to,
30:04
you know,
30:04
all the things going on,
30:06
culturally,
30:06
politically,
30:07
everything like that.
30:09
Um And I would say,
30:11
you know,
30:12
it's important to have our safe spaces too,
30:14
but with everything kind of going on with the,
30:18
the non gender affirming care and everything politically,
30:22
like,
30:22
how are you um how are you able to continue to be Zoe and,
30:30
and provide safeness for yourself when,
30:34
when we're not really finding it out there?
30:37
Yeah,
30:38
it's a great question.
30:39
Um So I,
30:40
I mean,
30:40
I definitely lean into my community,
30:43
the people that I've been safe with,
30:44
um I have a very,
30:46
very strong group of friends which I am very,
30:48
very thankful for because I have not been able to say that throughout all of my life.
30:52
So I'm very thankful for the community that I have.
30:55
I feel very affirmed by them.
30:56
Um in terms of,
30:58
you know,
30:58
kind of like the larger world and safety pieces.
31:01
Um I am like,
31:02
quote unquote lucky in,
31:04
in that people do assume that I am a woman.
31:07
And so,
31:08
you know,
31:09
it,
31:09
it's,
31:09
it's hard in that people do not see my gender fully,
31:12
but then good in that I do feel more safe,
31:17
obviously,
31:17
still un unsafe in that.
31:19
Like people are never really safe,
31:20
especially like a small one,
31:21
you know,
31:21
whatever,
31:22
but like um people do not assume that I'm trans,
31:25
which is a shame because I,
31:26
I wish people would see me for who I am,
31:27
but also like,
31:28
I am able to kind of blend in,
31:30
in that way which you know,
31:32
it,
31:32
it's a double edged sword,
31:33
but also that does provide me a level of safety and privilege um in the larger world which I am thankful for in that,
31:39
in that way.
31:40
Um Because there are people,
31:41
you know,
31:42
in the larger world who might see trans person and just,
31:44
you know,
31:45
attack.
31:45
So,
31:46
um but it's uh you know,
31:47
it's an ongoing thing,
31:48
but I think all we can do is just stick close to the people,
31:52
you know,
31:52
who feel good to us,
31:54
who affirm us whether that is people we have in person,
31:57
people,
31:57
we know online combination.
31:59
Um And you know,
32:01
just be with the people who make us feel safe and affirmed.
32:04
Yeah.
32:06
And in that,
32:06
I want to say there are so many resources online,
32:08
like definitely,
32:09
you know,
32:10
your pages,
32:11
Zoe um Renfrew,
32:12
we have a sage group,
32:14
sexual and gender equality group,
32:16
you know,
32:16
and so I would even say like,
32:18
if we can't find it like physically in our proximity of where we are,
32:24
um potentially finding some sort of group or community online can be really helpful in that respect.
32:30
I would definitely recommend that.
32:32
Yeah,
32:32
groups are so,
32:33
so wonderful.
32:34
Um Especially,
32:35
you know,
32:36
kind of like specific identity focus groups.
32:38
Um You know,
32:39
especially if you're struggling with an eating disorder,
32:41
like that specific focus too is just so,
32:43
so wonderful to be around people who get it and who see you.
32:48
Um It's,
32:48
it's amazing.
32:49
I would totally recommend that Yeah,
32:52
which for those of you listening,
32:53
if you're curious,
32:54
so Zoe,
32:55
you can check out their information pretty much on any platform.
32:58
It's um the at Sign Zoe Stoler,
33:01
which will add that to our stuff.
33:03
But you can also email us podcast at Renfrew center.com and we can um for sure,
33:07
share resources too.
33:09
This conversation is reminding me a little bit about another interview you did Zoe and you talked about,
33:16
you know,
33:16
when you had the realization that,
33:20
you know,
33:20
the term gender flu would really fit for you,
33:22
you also had this realization that,
33:25
well,
33:25
there's gonna be some people that I think I wanna come out to about this.
33:30
And I was wondering if you can talk a little more about taking that step,
33:34
you know,
33:35
how,
33:36
what that was like for you.
33:37
And then also if you could just share with the audience about,
33:41
you know,
33:42
do you have any guidance around,
33:44
you know,
33:44
coming out?
33:45
I mean,
33:45
for you,
33:45
it was like you felt like you had to come out again and that was really scary.
33:49
Yes,
33:50
exactly.
33:50
Um So yeah,
33:51
I had already come out as queer uh a few years prior to realizing I was gender fluid.
33:56
And so I thought I already,
33:58
I already did that scary thing that's done.
34:00
And then of course,
34:00
here's another scary thing and the,
34:03
the I knew that my family and the people around me would be accepting,
34:06
but of course it is scary to be vulnerable.
34:08
And I was really very much at the beginning of my vulnerability journey at that time.
34:12
Um And at that time,
34:14
I was also unfortunately dating somebody who was not very affirming of my identity.
34:18
And so,
34:19
um I discovered that I was gender fluid in fall 2019,
34:22
but I actually didn't end up coming out to my family until April 2020.
34:28
Uh because this person kind of convinced me that,
34:31
like,
34:31
I,
34:31
I shouldn't and that's a whole other topic.
34:34
Um But I uh eventually decided to come out in part because of my work on social media,
34:40
I had kind of like just started sharing.
34:42
Um And I really wanted to be vulnerable.
34:45
I wanted to be my full self.
34:46
I wanted to um put different pronouns in my bio.
34:49
I wanted to put that I was gender fluid on my page.
34:52
Like I,
34:52
I just had this urge to be vulnerable and connect with people and meet people like me.
34:58
Um And so I decided to just,
35:00
you know,
35:01
be not afraid,
35:03
you know,
35:03
and lean into that discomfort.
35:04
Um And I also knew that I want,
35:05
I wanted to share with my family before I put it all out there on social media.
35:10
Um So I texted my family in a group chat.
35:13
I just decided to like send them a little message quickly explaining um that,
35:16
you know,
35:17
I realized that my gender is not woman,
35:19
it's gender fluid.
35:20
And that I had different pronouns and that I,
35:22
you know,
35:23
wanted them to just understand this because I,
35:25
I love them and they,
35:25
I know they love me.
35:26
Um,
35:27
and it went,
35:27
it went smoothly but of course it was scary.
35:29
Uh,
35:29
but it was really nice because then I had,
35:32
you know,
35:32
full permission to just be me.
35:35
Um,
35:35
I had kind of opened myself up to the world.
35:38
I'd stopped closing myself off.
35:40
I'd stopped listening to,
35:41
you know,
35:41
this person in my life who was not affirming and decided to lean into people who could be affirming and who could uplift me and support me because I wanted to uplift me and support me and I'm very glad to have done so because it feels lovely again to just be authentic and be your real self and not,
35:58
not hide who you are.
36:01
It feels to me like that you,
36:04
you almost gave yourself permission to grow and to change.
36:09
And I felt like coming from the mental health background,
36:12
I just feel like that can be such a beautiful thing for us.
36:15
Like we can,
36:17
you know,
36:18
especially in 2020 like we could have come out of that being honestly being so black and white,
36:23
like culturally,
36:24
it was so intense for so many of us.
36:27
Um but giving ourselves permission to change,
36:31
I think can be one of the most beautiful things or to grow or to,
36:35
to say something different,
36:37
you know,
36:37
maybe a couple years ago,
36:38
I,
36:39
I felt this way but today I feel this way.
36:41
And so II,
36:42
I don't know,
36:43
that's what it feels like for me when I hear you talk about coming out again and,
36:47
and,
36:47
and leaning into that experience of vulnerability is that you gave yourself permission to grow and change.
36:54
I love that.
36:54
I think we should always be growing and changing.
36:56
Um So II,
36:58
I totally see that and I love that you saw that too.
37:01
That's awesome.
37:02
Um So,
37:04
OK,
37:04
you started this social media content creation in 2020.
37:08
As you mentioned,
37:10
I'm curious,
37:11
it's been,
37:11
you know,
37:12
three plus years at this point.
37:14
How have you grown?
37:16
How has your social media content grown?
37:18
Um What's changed for you in the last three years?
37:22
Great question.
37:23
Uh I've definitely grown in so many ways.
37:26
Oh my gosh.
37:27
Um I,
37:28
you know,
37:28
at the beginning of my journey um was still in a relationship with that person who I was,
37:33
you know,
37:33
who was not kind to me,
37:34
but I kind of very shortly after doing my Instagram stuff and did that moved out,
37:40
like started a whole life where I could be autonomous.
37:43
Um I learned more about myself.
37:45
I discovered my um asexuality and my like a romantic identities.
37:48
Um I have made friends like real life and in like online friends through Instagram and through other platforms,
37:56
which is amazing.
37:57
Um People who I like call like really close friends now who I just decided to,
38:02
you know,
38:02
like,
38:02
message or talk to you one day randomly.
38:05
Um,
38:06
I have definitely,
38:07
um,
38:08
expanded in so many ways.
38:10
I,
38:10
I totally forgot I went to social work school.
38:11
Oh,
38:11
my gosh.
38:12
Yeah,
38:13
I,
38:13
yeah,
38:14
that,
38:15
like,
38:15
completely slipped my mind somehow.
38:17
It's my social media that inspired me to go to social work school.
38:20
Um,
38:20
because in the,
38:21
at the time that I started,
38:22
I was working um in the marketing field and I was really bored with doing corporate marketing,
38:28
but really inspired with doing uh LGBT Q education online.
38:32
And so I decided to leave marketing,
38:35
get a master's in social work.
38:36
Um So I just graduated this past May.
38:39
So now I'm social worker.
38:40
Um and that's on Instagram.
38:42
Thank you so much.
38:43
So,
38:43
yeah,
38:44
my life has changed in so many ways,
38:45
but all for the better,
38:46
all for the better and it's all,
38:48
it's all continuing to change because as I said,
38:51
we're always growing and changing.
38:52
Uh We're always learning more about ourselves,
38:54
even if it's like the smallest little thing.
38:56
Um I think we're always or should always be kind of growing into the,
39:00
you know,
39:00
more healthy,
39:01
more fulfilled,
39:02
happier versions of ourselves.
39:04
And I,
39:05
I tried to always aspired to be doing that.
39:07
Yeah,
39:07
I didn't realize that this is the catalyst for you going into your social work degree.
39:13
I remember when we met,
39:14
you had just graduated Um Yeah,
39:17
so that's so cool.
39:18
That's awesome.
39:19
Thank you.
39:19
Yeah,
39:19
I know.
39:20
I kind of forgot as well.
39:22
It,
39:22
it really was,
39:23
it really was the catalyst and I like,
39:26
I'm so thankful for the life that I've built and it all is because I discovered my gender on social media and now here I am.
39:32
So OK,
39:33
so talking about that,
39:35
specifically discovering your gender fluidity on social media.
39:38
What were some resources that you looked into and or what could be like?
39:43
We definitely wanna,
39:44
you know,
39:45
send people to your page and what could be some other resources or books or online accounts that you found really helpful in your journey?
39:54
Yes.
39:55
Um Well,
39:55
there's,
39:56
there's so many accounts out there,
39:57
I'll say um and a lot of accounts that are very like identity or experience specific,
40:02
which is really,
40:03
really cool.
40:03
So definitely,
40:05
you know,
40:05
if you're listening,
40:06
whatever your specific identity or experience is,
40:08
if you just like type that in on Instagram or wherever you could definitely find somebody who talks specifically about that thing.
40:14
So I would definitely recommend that.
40:16
Um But separately,
40:18
um I'll say for the person who um really helped me a lot with my gender discovery is this uh person,
40:26
Ash Harel.
40:27
Um mainly a youtuber but also does some like Instagram and other stuff.
40:31
Um So I would definitely check out their content.
40:34
Um And I know like they're gender queer as well,
40:37
they just had some twins.
40:38
So like very cool.
40:40
Um Another great account for um like,
40:43
asexuality specifically is a dad advice.
40:46
Um They post a lot of great content and also really great because um he's like older and so you don't really see a lot of,
40:54
I mean,
40:54
like older,
40:54
like forties,
40:55
but like,
40:55
you don't see a lot of like older um like ace representation a lot of times it's like,
41:00
you know,
41:01
younger um like,
41:02
you know,
41:03
me,
41:03
I'm 27 or like teenage.
41:04
So really,
41:05
really to kind of have like a,
41:07
you know,
41:07
an older generation of queer people and Ace people.
41:10
Um So definitely check that out,
41:12
but again,
41:13
there's,
41:13
there's so,
41:14
so many,
41:14
so,
41:15
so many accounts out there quickly.
41:17
Could you tell us what Ace means?
41:19
Oh,
41:19
yes,
41:20
I'm so sorry.
41:20
Um And Ace is short for asexuals.
41:23
OK.
41:23
OK.
41:24
So for our audience out there listening,
41:27
what's one thing you'd like them to take away from this episode?
41:32
What I hope you take away is that it is possible to create a really fulfilling and happy life regardless of what your circumstances are,
41:40
what your identities are,
41:41
what your experiences are.
41:43
It is really possible and I hope that you lean into doing and feeling doing what is right for you and what feels right for you um and just supporting yourself and making sure that you surround yourself with people who affirm you and uplift you because you deserve that.
41:58
And that will help you create a life that feels good for you?
42:02
Hm.
42:02
I love that.
42:03
And where can our audience learn more about you?
42:06
Find you,
42:07
how can they um connect with you?
42:09
Uh Yes.
42:10
So you can find me on all social media platforms at Zoe Stoler.
42:14
Zo est oll er I'd say my main one is Instagram but I post on,
42:19
on all of them.
42:20
You can definitely connect with me anywhere um and feel free to DM or reach out if you have any questions.
42:25
And I also um in my link in my bio,
42:28
I have a form where you can submit um like content ideas.
42:32
If you have any like specific topics or questions that you want me to review,
42:35
definitely um submit them to that form and then I'll make content about that in the future.
42:40
Wonderful.
42:41
Thank you so much,
42:42
Zoe.
42:42
You're such an inspiration and we are so lucky to have you on today.
42:46
Oh,
42:46
thank you so much.
42:47
It was so so wonderful to be here.
42:52
Thank you for listening with us today on All Bodies All Foods presented by the Renfrew Center for Eating Disorders.
42:59
We're looking forward to you joining us next time as we continue these conversations.