Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Michigan Woman Uses Fake ‘Rent-a-Hitman’ Website To Have Ex Killed

Transcript

Michigan Woman Uses Fake ‘Rent-a-Hitman’ Website To Have Ex Killed · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The dart web is not safe,
0:17
Speaker 1: but our ah is what is r ah? Well? Of course,
0:23
Speaker 1: rent a Hitman? Okay, drink this in the dart web
0:28
Speaker 1: is not safe, but rent a Hitman is. Rent a
0:34
Speaker 1: Hitman dot Com. Our website is safe, secure, available to
0:40
Speaker 1: you right here on the world wide Web rent a Hitman.
0:47
Speaker 1: So here is my question. How does rent a Hitman
0:54
Speaker 1: dot Com end up embroiled in saving a man's life
1:01
Speaker 1: from a hit I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
1:06
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation
1:09
Speaker 1: and series x M one eleven with me and all
1:12
Speaker 1: star panel to make sense of what we know right now.
1:15
Speaker 1: First of all, high profile lawyer joining me out of
1:18
Speaker 1: La Troy Slayton with Slayton Lawyers. Doctor Sherry Schwartz, forensics
1:23
Speaker 1: psychologist and author of Criminal Behavior. You can find her
1:27
Speaker 1: at Panthemedigation dot com. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University and
1:31
Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Star of
1:35
Speaker 1: a brand new hit series on iHeart Bodybags with Joe
1:39
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. Special guests joining me from Fox to News
1:44
Speaker 1: at Detroit wb JK. Jessica Dupnac is joining us, but
1:50
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen first to our
1:53
Speaker 1: friends at Fox to Detroit our cup one listen. The
1:57
Speaker 1: site is rent a Hitman dot Com. I'm luring im
2:00
Speaker 1: Monroe County woman to see about having her ex husband killed.
2:04
Speaker 1: The inquiry real enough, gaining the attention to Michigan State Polife.
2:08
Speaker 1: The whole scenario more common than you'd think, The creator
2:11
Speaker 1: of the website explains. These people are speaking how to
2:19
Speaker 1: hire a hit man on the internet. One of them
2:21
Speaker 1: from Monroe County, Wendy Ween, charged for trying to hire
2:25
Speaker 1: someone to kill her ex husband. Filling out a lengthy
2:28
Speaker 1: questionnaire on the fictitious website, she was asked those two questions,
2:32
Speaker 1: do you still require our services? And would you like
2:35
Speaker 1: me to put you in contact with the field operatives.
2:38
Speaker 1: She answered yes. That was enough for Bob Inness, the
2:42
Speaker 1: creator of rent a Hitman dot Com, to report her
2:45
Speaker 1: to Michigan State Police. Well, all I can say is
2:48
Speaker 1: thank Heaven for a hitman dot com. Now listen to this.
2:52
Speaker 1: The website rent a Hitman dot Com quote got a
2:55
Speaker 1: problem that needs resolving. With over seventeen thousand, nine eighty
3:01
Speaker 1: five US based field operatives, we can find a solution
3:06
Speaker 1: that's right for you, the website promises, along with a
3:10
Speaker 1: badge bragging about the site's HIPPA compliance. Now correct me
3:17
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong choice light in which you do love
3:19
Speaker 1: to do hippa compliance and normal phraseology means you keep
3:25
Speaker 1: medical secrets secret. That's why your doctor can't give your
3:29
Speaker 1: name to you know, the local newsletter, because everything you
3:35
Speaker 1: tell a doctor or her staff is secret. That's what
3:38
Speaker 1: hippa is, right, that's right. It's the Health Information Privacy
3:43
Speaker 1: and Portability Act. So okay, your personals to protect all
3:47
Speaker 1: of your health information so that way nobody but your
3:50
Speaker 1: doctor can get that information. What does that have to
3:52
Speaker 1: do with hiring a hit man? So long story short,
3:57
Speaker 1: they offer a hit simple solution and to you, Jessica
4:02
Speaker 1: doop nang joining me from Fox to News w b JK,
4:07
Speaker 1: we can find a solution that's right for you. Was
4:09
Speaker 1: over about eighteen thousand operatives? Do you mean killers in
4:13
Speaker 1: the US? Is that what they're touting? And they even
4:16
Speaker 1: have a why don't you tell me, Jackie? They have
4:20
Speaker 1: a bonus or a discount for seniors. Yeah, it's very
4:26
Speaker 1: senior disco. Okay, tell me everything with me is Jessica
4:30
Speaker 1: Doop Nat with Fox two News w b JK. So,
4:34
Speaker 1: tell me, first of all, what is rent a Hitman
4:37
Speaker 1: dot Com? Oh, this is really a story within his story.
4:40
Speaker 1: A guany Bobenis. He's a fifty four year old Northern
4:43
Speaker 1: California guy. Back in two thousand and five, he was
4:46
Speaker 1: dipping his toe into sort of the web business. Started
4:50
Speaker 1: rent to Hitman dot com as a spoof. It was
4:52
Speaker 1: more about web hits than actual hitman in the sense
4:56
Speaker 1: that we think of them. So he starts this website
4:59
Speaker 1: that the business venture he was after goes belly up.
5:02
Speaker 1: He lets the site lie. A couple of years later,
5:05
Speaker 1: he checks the inbox. He's got three hundred requests for
5:10
Speaker 1: services of rent a Hitman, people from all over the
5:13
Speaker 1: world looking to have someone killed. He thinks maybe it's
5:18
Speaker 1: a joke. People are messing with him. Lets it lie
5:22
Speaker 1: for another couple of years. Then he gets an email
5:24
Speaker 1: from a woman named Helen. She's out of Canada, wants
5:27
Speaker 1: three people killed, and she won't leave Bob Innis and
5:31
Speaker 1: the rent a Hitman site alone. Then he finally starts
5:34
Speaker 1: to take it seriously. Corresponds with this woman Helen, who
5:38
Speaker 1: wants three people killed, finally realizes she means business. She
5:42
Speaker 1: actually wants to hire him. Then he reports it to police.
5:47
Speaker 1: Long story short, Helen ends up spending I think four
5:49
Speaker 1: months in prison for soliciting murders. Forward to right now.
5:55
Speaker 1: You know what. I know it's far fetched to a
5:57
Speaker 1: lot of people, but believe it or not, hitman are
6:01
Speaker 1: hired online. I want you to take a listen to
6:06
Speaker 1: sound about Tina Jones and her dark web murder for
6:11
Speaker 1: higher plot. These are our friends at ABC seven. This
6:14
Speaker 1: is John Garcia at Chicago ar Cut sixteen. Jones was
6:19
Speaker 1: having an affair with the intended victim's husband, who she
6:21
Speaker 1: worked with. She used the relative anonymity of the dark
6:25
Speaker 1: web to hire a company called Sicilian Hitman International to
6:29
Speaker 1: kill his wife, all from her quiet, suburban displays apartment.
6:34
Speaker 1: But a network news organization investigating the dark web stumbled
6:37
Speaker 1: down to the plot and reported it to Woodridge Police.
6:40
Speaker 1: Without their bringing this evidence to law enforcement's attention, who
6:46
Speaker 1: knows how this case would have ended up. She admitted
6:48
Speaker 1: that she had access to Hitman website. Investigators found evidence
6:52
Speaker 1: of Bitcoin payments and communication between Jones and the Hitman
6:56
Speaker 1: website on her laptop on her lap time. I mean,
7:00
Speaker 1: Joska Morgan, you're the professor of forensics. Does nobody understand
7:05
Speaker 1: that you can never really clean off your laptop, no
7:08
Speaker 1: matter how many times you try to delete items, No,
7:14
Speaker 1: you can't. Particularly if you get the law enforcement involved
7:18
Speaker 1: in a case like this, they'll be particularly interested and
7:21
Speaker 1: they will go to great links to recover anything that
7:24
Speaker 1: might be there. They'll even send it off to the FEDS, Nancy,
7:27
Speaker 1: and they have all kinds of interesting tools whereas they
7:30
Speaker 1: can recover all of this data that you might think
7:33
Speaker 1: that you've gotten rid of, but of course you haven't. Yeah,
7:35
Speaker 1: the only way you can really get rid of it
7:37
Speaker 1: is just take out in the driveway and run over
7:39
Speaker 1: it with your car. But even then, you've got to
7:40
Speaker 1: worry about what's stored in the cloud. You know, you
7:44
Speaker 1: may run over it, you may take it apart bit
7:47
Speaker 1: by bit your computer, but what you have stored in
7:50
Speaker 1: the cloud still exists. And what's amazing to me, Troy Slayton.
7:55
Speaker 1: People may not understand the workings of the Internet or
7:58
Speaker 1: the cloud or their computer, but doesn't everybody know. If
8:03
Speaker 1: you don't want it to be on page six tomorrow morning,
8:06
Speaker 1: then you don't put it in writing. You know, I
8:09
Speaker 1: always told clients that never text anything, never say anything
8:14
Speaker 1: on the phone, never email anything that you wouldn't mind
8:17
Speaker 1: being read aloud at your trial. But what really straggling
8:21
Speaker 1: me about this case, Nancy, is that I'm looking at
8:25
Speaker 1: the defense. There may very well be a viable defense
8:29
Speaker 1: here of entrapment. Oh good grief, you know what, Troy,
8:34
Speaker 1: Just hold onto the defense. You're putting the cart before
8:36
Speaker 1: the horse. I haven't even gotten that far. Right now,
8:39
Speaker 1: I'm talking about these idgets to go online and send
8:43
Speaker 1: emails about hiring a hitman. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
9:05
Speaker 1: doctor Sherry Schwartz. You know, we always see movies about
9:09
Speaker 1: these highly intelligent criminals that manage to outsmart police. And yes,
9:14
Speaker 1: they're out there, but for the most part, I really
9:17
Speaker 1: don't think they're that's smart. Doctor Sherry Schwartz is joining us.
9:20
Speaker 1: She's a forensic psychologist the specializes and the link between
9:25
Speaker 1: criminal behavior and psychology. I mean, they that's smart, doctor Sherry. Well,
9:31
Speaker 1: that's my experience, Nancy. They're average intelligence for the most part,
9:36
Speaker 1: and sometimes below. And this one, I mean, we don't
9:40
Speaker 1: often get a lot of cases we can laugh about, right,
9:42
Speaker 1: this is one we kind of can because no one
9:45
Speaker 1: was actually harmed. But it is the real head scratcher
9:49
Speaker 1: that in this day and age and everything that's out
9:53
Speaker 1: there about how you know we're being watched and monitored,
9:56
Speaker 1: and all of this information about us is so readily available,
10:00
Speaker 1: even after we think it's long gone. Why you would
10:02
Speaker 1: put your details into a website to have someone murdered,
10:07
Speaker 1: It is just beyond me. I mean, this is sort
10:10
Speaker 1: of an episode for I hate the state. I hate
10:12
Speaker 1: to be mean and sound mean, but for stupid criminals. Right. Wow,
10:16
Speaker 1: I had no idea you were so main, doctor Sherry.
10:20
Speaker 1: I mean, the depth of your evil is before now untold.
10:26
Speaker 1: We're talking about a woman trying to kill somebody. She's
10:29
Speaker 1: the bad guy, doctor Sherry Schwartz, not you, Oh you
10:33
Speaker 1: know you really are? You take the cake? You called
10:35
Speaker 1: a criminal? What did you call him? Dumb? Wow? Okay,
10:38
Speaker 1: we're talking about a woman trying to have her husband murdered. Now,
10:44
Speaker 1: this is the one that I love to play, and
10:47
Speaker 1: you're gonna know who I'm talking about. Dahlia Dippolito, the
10:51
Speaker 1: so called black widow. Now, her defense lawyers keep telling
10:55
Speaker 1: me over never that I'm wrong when I say she
10:58
Speaker 1: tried to kill him once by wasn't in his Starbucks. Now.
11:02
Speaker 1: The other day, I forgot to tell you this, Jackie.
11:05
Speaker 1: My daughter Lucy, who's just turned fourteen. This was actually
11:08
Speaker 1: on her birthday party, had five of her she and
11:11
Speaker 1: four of her little friends in the backseat and they
11:14
Speaker 1: all said they wanted to go to Starbucks. Well, Lucy
11:17
Speaker 1: Lynch has never had a coffee, real coffee, and she went, Okay,
11:21
Speaker 1: let's go Sirebucks. So I'm driving through, ready to pay
11:25
Speaker 1: the awful amount they're going to charge me, and one
11:28
Speaker 1: little girl gets five pumps of caramel and five pumps
11:33
Speaker 1: of something else. I mean, they're all just big glasses
11:37
Speaker 1: of whipped cream essentially. And I was thinking about it
11:42
Speaker 1: and I saw my daughter in the rear view window.
11:44
Speaker 1: I didn't turn around to look at her, and she
11:47
Speaker 1: she actually got regular coffee. She took and she mashed
11:54
Speaker 1: her hold it in and I spit it out. But
11:56
Speaker 1: later when I cleaned the car out, no, they did
11:58
Speaker 1: not help me. I found her completely full coffee in
12:02
Speaker 1: the beverage container. See, because she was trying so hard
12:05
Speaker 1: to blend in with all these other girls that are
12:08
Speaker 1: having their frappuccinos. And there whatever they were having. My
12:11
Speaker 1: point is that's a perfect place to hide poison. And
12:15
Speaker 1: one of those frothy, gooey drinks at Starbucks, you'd never
12:20
Speaker 1: taste a thing. Well, Dahlia's attempt, the husband didn't drink it.
12:25
Speaker 1: H So that didn't work. So I want you to
12:28
Speaker 1: hear what Dahlia Dippolito says to a hitman. Take a
12:33
Speaker 1: listen to our cut for a This is from ABC
12:36
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. Police say Dahlia thinks she is meeting an
12:40
Speaker 1: actual hitman and his cherry red convertible. Ya. He makes
12:46
Speaker 1: his plan crystal clear. Okay, I apprivalery gone wrong that
12:54
Speaker 1: leaves Mike death. The undercoveragetita if he really wants to
13:02
Speaker 1: nail Dalia, make sure he's got it on tape and
13:05
Speaker 1: on camera that she is really going to pay him
13:09
Speaker 1: to kill her husband. And he says, are you sure, Dalia?
13:18
Speaker 1: Like positive? There it is. The press would have a
13:25
Speaker 1: field day with this line. Listen again, she's five thousand
13:29
Speaker 1: percent short positive Like well, no, she wasn't just one
13:35
Speaker 1: hundred percent sure. She was five thousand percent sure that
13:39
Speaker 1: she wanted her husband killed. Troy Slayton veteran trial lawyer
13:43
Speaker 1: or a high profile lawyer out of LA criminal defense attorney,
13:47
Speaker 1: try Slayton. You know how much I love it what
13:49
Speaker 1: she says. I'm five thousand percent sure I want him dead.
13:52
Speaker 1: I love that line. Many times I've played that, but
13:55
Speaker 1: not as many times as I've played the staying on
13:58
Speaker 1: her when the car come out. Okay, wait, let's let's
14:01
Speaker 1: just play that. Okay, wait for it, wait for it.
14:04
Speaker 1: Do we hear her crying in this one? Oh? I'm
14:06
Speaker 1: so happy. Take a listen to our cut b as
14:10
Speaker 1: in brother one, our cut eight. I'm sorry, j Ramsey,
14:13
Speaker 1: I'm not going to call you. Thank you for coming.
14:15
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to call you. Listen. We had to report
14:17
Speaker 1: of a disturbance at your house and there were shots
14:20
Speaker 1: fired as your husband, Michael, Okay, I'm sorry to tell
14:23
Speaker 1: you man, he's been killed. He's been killed. Try to
14:31
Speaker 1: find up right now. We need to we need to
14:36
Speaker 1: get I can't look, man. We have to do our job.
14:40
Speaker 1: You want to find a stiller. We need you to
14:43
Speaker 1: calm up. I need you to go with these Okay.
14:47
Speaker 1: Do you have enemies? Is there anyone who okay, who
14:51
Speaker 1: want to hurt him? When, as she said, they saw
14:53
Speaker 1: a blackmail running from you. I can't let you stay then, madam,
14:56
Speaker 1: I cannot do this right now. I can't go with
15:05
Speaker 1: these detectives. If you want to help your husband, okay,
15:07
Speaker 1: if you want to help your husband, you need to
15:09
Speaker 1: go through station with these young and tell us everything
15:12
Speaker 1: you know about who he knows who the boy we've
15:15
Speaker 1: reready taken carry dogs that I'm look control for. Right now,
15:17
Speaker 1: everything's under control. I was just like, where do you
15:21
Speaker 1: think it in like a fine wine. Of course he's
15:24
Speaker 1: not dead. Husband's not dead. That's why I'm so happy
15:26
Speaker 1: right now. Any day I don't have a dead body,
15:29
Speaker 1: it's a good day, right Joe Scott death investigator. So
15:32
Speaker 1: long story short, she sets when the poisoned Chai tee
15:36
Speaker 1: from Starbucks fails. Then she hires a hit man. And
15:40
Speaker 1: you heard herself, five thousand percent sure I want him dead.
15:44
Speaker 1: I'm surprised you didn't spell it out, d E A
15:46
Speaker 1: d dead. Well, she hires a hit man. The hit
15:50
Speaker 1: goes down while she's working out. She's a fitness enthusiast
15:53
Speaker 1: and stripper, former stripper and um so the cops come
15:59
Speaker 1: tell he's dead. He wasn't dead. It was a sting operation.
16:04
Speaker 1: I wish you could see that because when she's whining
16:07
Speaker 1: and screaming, she's bending over, bending over, double down, in pain,
16:14
Speaker 1: Troice Layton in pain. That was some pretty good acting.
16:19
Speaker 1: Because she thought she was on a reality show. You
16:22
Speaker 1: know that, Nancy, she thought she was filming a reality show.
16:25
Speaker 1: That was her defense. Wait a minute, were you her lawyer?
16:29
Speaker 1: I was not? You sure? Sound like you are? What
16:32
Speaker 1: do you mean she thought it was a reality show.
16:34
Speaker 1: She one of the things that she said was that
16:38
Speaker 1: she thought that this was all part of a reality show.
16:43
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to have to go to the
16:44
Speaker 1: shrink on this one. To you, doctor A. Sherry Schwartz,
16:49
Speaker 1: I guess when you have nothing left you can say,
16:51
Speaker 1: you can say it was all for a reality show. Well,
16:55
Speaker 1: I mean, Nancy, as you know, a lot of what
16:58
Speaker 1: I do that I'm reading to do is mitigation. And
17:02
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sitting over here trying not to control,
17:05
Speaker 1: you know, trying not to laugh out loud. That's ridiculous.
17:09
Speaker 1: You thought it was for a reality show. Well wait,
17:13
Speaker 1: you either thought your husband was actually killed or you
17:17
Speaker 1: thought you were acting for a reality show. Right, It
17:19
Speaker 1: can't be both, right, So it makes no sense. And
17:23
Speaker 1: again you know to tie it back to the psychology
17:26
Speaker 1: of this perpetrator. I mean, this is a dangerous individual.
17:30
Speaker 1: As you pointed out about the rent A hitman lady,
17:33
Speaker 1: I mean, these are people who want people dead and
17:35
Speaker 1: are willing to pay for that to happen. Time stories
17:54
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. There's another psychological issue you and I
18:01
Speaker 1: want to go to you on this. Just Scott Morgan,
18:03
Speaker 1: death investigator, think about it. You and I have discussed
18:06
Speaker 1: many times the case of Lynn Turner, the woman ultimately
18:11
Speaker 1: convicted of murdering her boyfriend and her husband a couple
18:15
Speaker 1: of maybe two years apart. They both seemingly died of
18:19
Speaker 1: heart failure or some gastro intestinal problem. She was really
18:23
Speaker 1: giving them anti freeze, and I believe it was jello
18:27
Speaker 1: shots or in jello in jello, and they couldn't taste
18:32
Speaker 1: it because anti freeze is sweet. That's why you have
18:35
Speaker 1: to make sure your dog doesn't sneak up to the
18:38
Speaker 1: car and try to drink it if it leaks sweet.
18:42
Speaker 1: Aside from anti freeze, the frame of mind of someone.
18:48
Speaker 1: They can so coldly, so calculatedly plan the murder of
18:54
Speaker 1: another human, much less someone you have children with. Someone
18:58
Speaker 1: that you have loved in the past, even if you
19:00
Speaker 1: don't love them anymore, to stand by and see them
19:03
Speaker 1: poisoned in their Chai latte or hire a hitman to
19:07
Speaker 1: go shoot them dead in the head. That's a whole
19:13
Speaker 1: another mindset, Joe Scott, and we've seen it a lot. Yeah, yeah.
19:16
Speaker 1: And what's really fascinating about this, Nancy, is that they
19:19
Speaker 1: don't think about it in the sense that if you're
19:22
Speaker 1: seeking someone out, let's just say legitimately you are actually
19:26
Speaker 1: seeking somebody out that would perform this service for you,
19:29
Speaker 1: do you realize what kind of level of evil that
19:31
Speaker 1: you're brushing up against. And this always happens, it seems
19:35
Speaker 1: as though, with people that are very unsophisticated when it
19:38
Speaker 1: comes through the world of crime. And I've got several
19:41
Speaker 1: friends that are police officers over the years that did
19:43
Speaker 1: undercover work on cases like this. And the interesting thing
19:46
Speaker 1: about it, I know two of these cases where the
19:49
Speaker 1: individuals that were eventually charged, they actually walked into biker
19:54
Speaker 1: separate biker bars to solicit solicit help in achieving this.
20:00
Speaker 1: And the thing about it is that many people that
20:02
Speaker 1: you go to seek out in these kind of seedy
20:04
Speaker 1: locations where you had this perception of danger. They don't
20:07
Speaker 1: want to get in further trouble. So what do they do.
20:09
Speaker 1: You reach out to somebody that you think is going
20:12
Speaker 1: to be really imposing and evil, and they roll over.
20:15
Speaker 1: They call their parole officer, or they call a local
20:18
Speaker 1: constabulary and say, look, I got this lady that's telling
20:20
Speaker 1: me she wants her husband dead. And the next thing
20:23
Speaker 1: you know, you're calling the middle of a steam. Well.
20:26
Speaker 1: Many people have said all good things must come to
20:29
Speaker 1: an end, and is such the case with Dahlia Dippolito's
20:33
Speaker 1: oscar performance. What goes up must come down? Take a
20:38
Speaker 1: listen to win. Dahlia Dippolito finds out Rutt Row, her
20:44
Speaker 1: husband is not dead. Listen. They bring in Officer Witty Jeane,
20:53
Speaker 1: the supposed hitman from the car. It's over here. You
20:58
Speaker 1: know this, guys, you've never seen him before. She just
21:03
Speaker 1: stared at him. Um, she says she didn't know him,
21:06
Speaker 1: and then call it a resurrection. Oh my god. Police
21:11
Speaker 1: have another surprise for Delia to Polito. Here she sees
21:19
Speaker 1: her husband and he's a love. The show Cops captures
21:23
Speaker 1: this moment as well. Here my God, like, come here,
21:32
Speaker 1: what you're alive. I love that moment, and I'm sure
21:36
Speaker 1: a jury will to You're going to jail. You kept
21:45
Speaker 1: saying I didn't do anything. I didn't do anything. Was
21:48
Speaker 1: that all you could think of to say? They were
21:50
Speaker 1: accusing me of trying to have my husband Calvin? I
21:54
Speaker 1: been it going down with the ship Dolia dippolto. Well,
21:58
Speaker 1: you know, Troy Slayton, I can't believe you've led me
22:01
Speaker 1: down the garden path and gotten totally off topic here.
22:04
Speaker 1: We're talking not about Dahlia di Polito, but Wendy Wine.
22:07
Speaker 1: He reportedly goes online to rent a hitman dot com
22:13
Speaker 1: to have her husband killed. Take a listen to our
22:16
Speaker 1: cut number four. This is Simon Chaquette w x y Z.
22:20
Speaker 1: Detroit detective say an undercover operation in a Monroe County
22:25
Speaker 1: parking lot revealed Wendy was serious, even willing to cover
22:28
Speaker 1: extra costs to travel out of state where her ex
22:31
Speaker 1: husband lives. We used a state troop proposing as a hitman,
22:36
Speaker 1: and there was a conversation and she provided some funds
22:40
Speaker 1: for travels and at that time arrest was made, arrested
22:43
Speaker 1: for solicitation to commit murder. She was locked up at
22:45
Speaker 1: the Monroe County Jail, where she remains charged today. She's
22:49
Speaker 1: also accused of using a computer to commit a crime.
22:52
Speaker 1: Police tell us. The owner of the site stated he's
22:55
Speaker 1: helped to stop more than one hundred and thirty murders.
22:58
Speaker 1: I must definitely think that life was saved, and doing
23:01
Speaker 1: a news story on this, I'm pretty sure that when
23:04
Speaker 1: this new story gets out there, some other life might
23:06
Speaker 1: be are saved by this. The case against Wendy Wayne
23:10
Speaker 1: is still open and Michigan State Police are asking anyone
23:12
Speaker 1: who could have more info to call them right away. Now,
23:16
Speaker 1: interesting you heard that she was arrested once she handed
23:19
Speaker 1: over funds. The law is that talk is just that
23:24
Speaker 1: that would be more along the lines of a conspiracy.
23:27
Speaker 1: But what is needed is an overt act under the
23:31
Speaker 1: law too, the conspiracy. Yeah, and that would be handing
23:35
Speaker 1: over the money. Troy. That's right. They need to show
23:38
Speaker 1: that there was an act in furtherance of the crime.
23:41
Speaker 1: But I would argue here because you don't know how
23:43
Speaker 1: many times Jack and I apploted to have you killed.
23:46
Speaker 1: But you know I haven't written had that overt act yet,
23:49
Speaker 1: thank goodness. But in this case, the owner of the website,
23:55
Speaker 1: mister Ennis says that he has saved over one hundred
23:58
Speaker 1: and thirty lives, that he has worked with police in
24:01
Speaker 1: many different occasions. That sounds to me like he's an
24:04
Speaker 1: agent of the police. No, dear lord, we're not there yet.
24:08
Speaker 1: Troy again, cart before Horse. You're now trying to argue
24:12
Speaker 1: that this guy who has this crazy website run to
24:16
Speaker 1: Hitman dot Com is somehow working for the cops, and
24:20
Speaker 1: therefore Wendy Wine was entrapped by an agent of the state.
24:25
Speaker 1: Good luck with that, but at least you get an
24:27
Speaker 1: A for effort and a plus for creativity. Jessica Dupnik
24:31
Speaker 1: with me, the expert on this case joining us from
24:34
Speaker 1: Fox two needs w B JK. Let's just start at
24:37
Speaker 1: the beginning. Tell me the whole thing, Jessica, what happened?
24:41
Speaker 1: And so miss Wendy Ottom Monroe County, which just real
24:44
Speaker 1: little context, blue collar, working class, really middle America outside
24:48
Speaker 1: of about forty five minutes outside of Detroit, you know.
24:51
Speaker 1: Sits down to her computer. I'm envisioning this and I've
24:54
Speaker 1: got a great picture in my head and simply google
24:57
Speaker 1: Hitman and of course run to Hitman comes up. She
25:01
Speaker 1: fills out what's called a service request. After reading some
25:05
Speaker 1: of those testimonials of satisfied clients, fills out her request
25:10
Speaker 1: to have her ex has testimonials of satisfied clients on
25:13
Speaker 1: his fake yet man site. Unbelievable. One of them actually says,
25:18
Speaker 1: I basically I had my husband taken out after he
25:21
Speaker 1: cheated with the babysitter, and now I'm single and ready
25:24
Speaker 1: to mingle. And for some reason, Wendy did not put
25:28
Speaker 1: two and two together that this was the site was
25:30
Speaker 1: not on the up and up. Even when she found
25:33
Speaker 1: out the hitman was named Guido Finelle, she missed a
25:38
Speaker 1: lot of red flags, a lot, okay, So she contacts
25:44
Speaker 1: rent a hitman dot com and then what happens with
25:48
Speaker 1: me Jessica Dupnac from w BJK. What happens then, so
25:52
Speaker 1: the webmaster Bob Innis, who poses his Guido, the person
25:56
Speaker 1: she's corresponding with, asks two key questions, do you still
26:00
Speaker 1: require services? And do you want me to put put
26:04
Speaker 1: you in touch with the field operative, to which she
26:06
Speaker 1: said yes to both of those, and at that point
26:09
Speaker 1: Bob Innis the creator of this full site. Then he
26:12
Speaker 1: reaches out to police. Michigan State Police then set up
26:15
Speaker 1: a little meet and greed at a cafe in Monroe County,
26:19
Speaker 1: and that's where they work a deal for five thousand
26:22
Speaker 1: dollars maybe even more, to have her ex husband killed.
26:25
Speaker 1: And at that time she has do she want him dan?
26:28
Speaker 1: I mean, is he as an ex correct? And another
26:31
Speaker 1: reason eight for a reason I guess in another state.
26:34
Speaker 1: And I guess she just couldn't let it go. She
26:37
Speaker 1: just she she wanted to end it. You know, that's
26:40
Speaker 1: when you grab your stuff and run. He's an X,
26:43
Speaker 1: they're divorced, and he's in another state. Run lady, run. Okay, guys,
26:48
Speaker 1: take a listen now to our cut. Five kimberly gilded
26:52
Speaker 1: di IV four knees. A Monroe County woman is facing
26:55
Speaker 1: felony charges after allegedly trying to hire a hitman to
26:59
Speaker 1: kill her husband. Prosecutors say fifty one in World Windy Wine,
27:04
Speaker 1: contact of the humor site rent a hitman dot com
27:06
Speaker 1: and specified her ex husband as the target. The owner
27:10
Speaker 1: of the site contacted state police, who set up an
27:12
Speaker 1: undercover sting in South Rockwood. She allegedly offered five thousand
27:16
Speaker 1: dollars to an undercover state trooper to kill her X.
27:20
Speaker 1: She was arrested on charges of solicitation of murder and
27:23
Speaker 1: using a computer to commit a crime. Yeah, you may
27:26
Speaker 1: laugh all the way to the courthouse. Wendy Wine is
27:31
Speaker 1: all funding games. Sill somebody calls the cops and that
27:35
Speaker 1: somebody was rent a hitman dot com. Time Stories with
27:53
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace joining me right now is a special guest
27:58
Speaker 1: who was an x on the Dark Web and murder
28:02
Speaker 1: for higher website. Specifically, it's Thomas Holt, the director, the
28:09
Speaker 1: professor at the School of Criminal Justice, Michigan State University. Professor,
28:14
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us, my pleasure, Thank you
28:17
Speaker 1: for having me. Professor. I'm sure you know the facts
28:20
Speaker 1: about the Windy Wine case. Who actually goes online to
28:24
Speaker 1: rent a hitman dot com? Which is there's a great
28:29
Speaker 1: article in the Rolling Stone on this which is actually
28:32
Speaker 1: a spoof website created by a guy and his word's
28:36
Speaker 1: not mine, Professor I didn't think people would be that stupid,
28:40
Speaker 1: but actually he thinks he's saved about well nearly two
28:44
Speaker 1: hundred lives by people who are actually hiring a hitman
28:49
Speaker 1: coming to his website. First of all, could you explain
28:53
Speaker 1: what exactly is the dark web? Sure, the dark web
28:57
Speaker 1: is a portion of the Internet that is hosted on
29:00
Speaker 1: what's called tour and it's essentially an encrypted portion of
29:04
Speaker 1: the Internet. So to get there you have to download
29:07
Speaker 1: special tools like tour or free to P. There's a
29:11
Speaker 1: few different protocols that are out there, but they enable
29:14
Speaker 1: you to slow it down. Slow it down, sir, I'm
29:17
Speaker 1: just a JD. You are the n i quote direct
29:20
Speaker 1: chair and professor at the School of Criminal Justice at
29:23
Speaker 1: Michigan State University, focusing on computer hacking, malware and the
29:28
Speaker 1: role of the Internet and facilitating all manner of crime
29:31
Speaker 1: and deviance. Wow, I bet you can't fit that on
29:35
Speaker 1: a business card, but I for one and very impressed.
29:38
Speaker 1: So what were you saying? So basically, there's a difference
29:43
Speaker 1: between the open web, which is where the website this
29:47
Speaker 1: person access is hosted. That's the part of the Internet
29:50
Speaker 1: you can get to through any web browser. So when
29:53
Speaker 1: you go and you go online through Firefox or Chrome
29:57
Speaker 1: or whatever it is that you use, those are the
29:59
Speaker 1: sites you can get to without having to do anything special.
30:02
Speaker 1: To get to the dark Web, you have to download
30:05
Speaker 1: a special kind of software, and there's different kinds of
30:08
Speaker 1: software out there, like Tour or free two P to
30:12
Speaker 1: download to as in a Tour of Homes t you
30:15
Speaker 1: are tour What are you saying? I know, it's actually
30:18
Speaker 1: Tour t o R. And it stands for the Union
30:25
Speaker 1: Go ahead. And it basically works by encrypting your traffic
30:30
Speaker 1: through other people's systems. So when you download the software,
30:35
Speaker 1: your computer traffic, your internet traffic gets routed through other
30:39
Speaker 1: people who've downloaded the software as well, so it hides
30:42
Speaker 1: where you are by moving you through other people's systems.
30:47
Speaker 1: And people host things on the dark web like hitman
30:50
Speaker 1: schemes or hacking content, or a lot of child pornography
30:56
Speaker 1: and sexual exploitation content because it's harder to be identified
31:00
Speaker 1: because you know what we were just talking about, professor,
31:03
Speaker 1: We were just talking I guess it was Monday, Jackie.
31:06
Speaker 1: We were talking about the Josh Dugger case, remember nineteen
31:11
Speaker 1: and counting on TLC downloading all the child porn through
31:16
Speaker 1: the dark web. And that's when I first heard the
31:19
Speaker 1: phraseology that you're talking about with me is Professor Thomas
31:23
Speaker 1: Holt from Michigan State University. Go ahead, professor, And that's
31:27
Speaker 1: exactly right. There's a lot of different child pornography and
31:31
Speaker 1: sexual exploitation content on the dark web because it's harder
31:35
Speaker 1: to identify the users. So when you go to a
31:38
Speaker 1: website like lent a Hitman on the open Web, that
31:41
Speaker 1: site can capture your IP address, And so when you
31:45
Speaker 1: go to that site, if you're doing it from your home,
31:48
Speaker 1: that means the individual running the site knows, Okay, this
31:52
Speaker 1: person at this date and time connected with my site
31:55
Speaker 1: and then made a request. So it's easier to be identified.
31:59
Speaker 1: You make yourself more open on the open web, whereas
32:02
Speaker 1: you're concealed when you're on the dark web. What's interesting, Well,
32:06
Speaker 1: there's so many things interesting about Wendy Wine's case. Jessica
32:10
Speaker 1: Doopnak joining us from Fox to wb JK Detroit. Jessica
32:17
Speaker 1: is that while we have been joking around and somewhat glib,
32:23
Speaker 1: we're all just happy, Jessica, because he's not dead. The
32:27
Speaker 1: victim is not dead for once and a case that
32:31
Speaker 1: we're covering. But when we hear the professor speaking about
32:37
Speaker 1: what is found on the dark web, as Professor Holt
32:42
Speaker 1: pointed out, child porn, all manner of how to make
32:47
Speaker 1: a bomb, how to hire a hit man, how to
32:51
Speaker 1: create fake IDs, how to get out of the country,
32:54
Speaker 1: how to get fake passports, how to cheat how to
32:57
Speaker 1: cheat on your taxes, how to make meth. It's all,
33:00
Speaker 1: how to make a bottle, it's all there on the
33:03
Speaker 1: dark Web. I hope my children never find out about
33:05
Speaker 1: the dark Web. And it's very, very sobering, Jess got Morgan.
33:11
Speaker 1: You're a professor of forensics, but I think of you
33:14
Speaker 1: as a death investigator. When you're hearing Professor Holt describing
33:19
Speaker 1: what's on the dark Web, it almost makes me sick
33:22
Speaker 1: to my stomach. Yeah, it does. And you know, you
33:26
Speaker 1: and I we have these things that kind of haunt
33:28
Speaker 1: our dreams, don't we, Nancy, from the things that we've seen.
33:31
Speaker 1: And many people that take this deep dive into this
33:34
Speaker 1: abysmal area, they haven't seen the things that we've seen,
33:39
Speaker 1: and they don't understand the danger that is involved in
33:43
Speaker 1: this environment and the people that dwell out there. You know,
33:47
Speaker 1: you can imagine these folks that are out there seeking
33:50
Speaker 1: out these kinds of services that again are unsophisticated when
33:54
Speaker 1: it comes to crime, and they step off of this
33:58
Speaker 1: ledge into this environment and you, you know, you really
34:01
Speaker 1: don't know what you're going to bring through the Internet
34:05
Speaker 1: back into your own life, and you know, many times
34:09
Speaker 1: he'll follow with it. You know Roy Slayton. Yeah, jump in, daughter, Sherry,
34:13
Speaker 1: this is Jessica. I just espe. I'm sorry. Go ahead, Jessica.
34:16
Speaker 1: When you think about Wendy, I mean, she's just kind
34:18
Speaker 1: of your average woman. And you talk about the Internet,
34:20
Speaker 1: you talk about the dark Web and just the accessibility
34:23
Speaker 1: of it. Anybody can get to it. You have a
34:25
Speaker 1: passing thought, you can jump on the computer, you can
34:28
Speaker 1: take a deep dive and you're there. It's all at
34:31
Speaker 1: your fingertips. And this was just sort of a regular woman,
34:34
Speaker 1: obviously with some very dark, deep thoughts. You know, Jessica
34:38
Speaker 1: Dubnak joining me, who has been on this case from
34:40
Speaker 1: the beginning. I guess I always knew about the dark Web,
34:45
Speaker 1: but it really hit home, I would say. And the
34:49
Speaker 1: nineties when I met a young girl, her name is Marsha,
34:55
Speaker 1: and she had been adopted from a Russian orphanage to
34:58
Speaker 1: a single man in the US, who, of course was
35:04
Speaker 1: a pedophile, and he took all sorts of video images
35:09
Speaker 1: of her being raped. He would tire her up to
35:11
Speaker 1: a tree in the backyard and sex assault her and
35:15
Speaker 1: then pass it around on the Internet like baseball cards.
35:19
Speaker 1: And she and I went to Congress to try to
35:24
Speaker 1: beg for strict reinforcement of rules against child pornography and trading.
35:32
Speaker 1: Pedophiles trade these images online again like baseball cards. That's
35:37
Speaker 1: the kind of thing that's on the dark web. And
35:41
Speaker 1: Jessica Doupnat brought up something really interesting, doctor Sherry Sworts.
35:45
Speaker 1: That is seemingly normal, average ex wife slash mom would
35:52
Speaker 1: seek this out online. It's kind of hard to reconcile
35:59
Speaker 1: the two images. You got a soccer mom and you
36:02
Speaker 1: got a woman going online to order a hit, exactly.
36:05
Speaker 1: And I would say, I understand what she's saying, right,
36:09
Speaker 1: because on the surface, she looks normal, but this is
36:13
Speaker 1: not normal behavior, because yeah, I'm just a tad. I
36:17
Speaker 1: know that I'm coming to you for your right a
36:19
Speaker 1: little more Dodgers Gary exactly. But you know, and the
36:24
Speaker 1: really interesting part of this, I find many parts of
36:27
Speaker 1: it interesting. But she actually, in one of the communications
36:31
Speaker 1: with the website owner, Bob Innes, says to him, it's
36:34
Speaker 1: kind of weird your company's not on the deep or
36:36
Speaker 1: dark web. So she knows enough to know about the
36:40
Speaker 1: dark web, and she says, I don't want to go
36:42
Speaker 1: to jail. So she's showing us that from the psychological perspective,
36:46
Speaker 1: she knows the difference between right and wrong. Well, there
36:49
Speaker 1: goes you're insanity play. I don't want to go to
36:51
Speaker 1: jail for this. It's like, I'm not sorry I did it,
36:54
Speaker 1: but I'm sure as hell don't want to go to
36:56
Speaker 1: hell for it. So Jessica jack Nang joining me w
36:59
Speaker 1: B JK. Does the case stand right now? So there
37:02
Speaker 1: was a plea that was struck in the case, she
37:05
Speaker 1: pled guilty to count solicitation of murder using a computer
37:09
Speaker 1: to commit a crime. Sentencing after the first of the year.
37:14
Speaker 1: I think it's a cap of nine years that she
37:16
Speaker 1: won't serve any more time than nine years. So we'll
37:19
Speaker 1: see after the first of the year exactly what a
37:21
Speaker 1: judge will decide in terms of, you know, sentencing here.
37:24
Speaker 1: Does this woman have children, Jessica, You know, it's very interesting.
37:31
Speaker 1: We don't know a ton about her personal life. Not
37:34
Speaker 1: a lot of that was revealed, and it moved a
37:36
Speaker 1: little bit fast just because of the plea deal that
37:39
Speaker 1: was struck. So's it's unclear. No one's come forward to
37:42
Speaker 1: myself or any of the local media because this is
37:44
Speaker 1: obviously a case. We talk about it just much like
37:47
Speaker 1: everybody on the panel, just kind of shocked by it all.
37:51
Speaker 1: If I may, this is tom Hole. One of the
37:54
Speaker 1: important things is that these hitman sites on the dark Web.
37:58
Speaker 1: We don't really know how many people engage with them,
38:01
Speaker 1: but there have been a number of arrests over the
38:03
Speaker 1: last few years for people who are attempting to use
38:07
Speaker 1: these services, so it's a pretty frequent or persistent issue.
38:12
Speaker 1: The main thing is that most of those hitman providers
38:15
Speaker 1: are fake. They're just taking the individual's money and then
38:18
Speaker 1: they never have to deliver. There's not a real expectation
38:21
Speaker 1: that you'll hear from your hitman that the act has
38:23
Speaker 1: been completed. So it's an easy scam to run, and
38:27
Speaker 1: it sets up a lot of opportunities for bad guys
38:30
Speaker 1: on the internet to make a lot of money with
38:33
Speaker 1: nothing that they have to actually deliver. Well, I can
38:36
Speaker 1: only hope that you're right. Well, we wait as just
38:40
Speaker 1: as unfolds and as this case goes to sentencing. I'm
38:44
Speaker 1: watching you, judge Nancy Grace from story signing off, goodbye friend.