Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Frazer Gregory & Si Hart about their choice of Terror of the Vervoids (1/4)

Transcript

Talks to Frazer Gregory & Si Hart about their choice of Terror of the Vervoids (1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:25
The. Dateline 1986 A Doctor Who has
0:49
been put on trial for his life. The nefarious Michael Grade, an
0:54
amalgamation of the Tory side of the BBC's nature but somewhere
0:56
between its 12th and final incarnation, has decided that
1:00
Doctor Who must die and using his dastardly puppet the
1:03
Vaalyard, plans to steal all of his remaining lives and siphon
1:07
off his budget to EastEnders. Having put the show on trial off
1:10
screen, the production team have come up with a wonderful idea of
1:13
putting it on trial on screen as well, because what could
1:16
possibly go wrong with that? Well, they could demonstrate how
1:19
great the show used to be before showing us how shit it is now
1:22
for a start. And so the story finds out.
1:25
Plucky travellers moving from the mysterious planet of Ravalox
1:28
to the mind warping planet of Ferenginar where the latex Cuba
1:31
Grand Negus Cave and his assistant adjudicate a sill plot
1:35
to turn a massive profit by sucking Kev's brain out and
1:37
sticking it into Doctor Who's body.
1:40
And if you think Star Trek ripped that off, just wait till
1:42
you see the Breen in this episode.
1:46
Thankfully, there's a departing cast member to fall on their
1:48
sword and save Doctor Who. And so while King Yukonis may be
1:51
happy that Gordon's alive, it's more than could be said for poor
1:55
Perry. And so, as Perry finds herself
1:58
as only the third companion to perish in Doctor Who's history,
2:01
because we all know that Sarah Kingdom doesn't count, Doctor
2:05
Who finds himself dragged back to the courtroom again and again
2:08
and again in the realization that he now needs not only to
2:11
present his defense, but find a new companion, someone grounded
2:15
down to earth and not at all shrill should do the trick.
2:17
What now then? Trying our bold and fearless
2:21
adventurers, the one known as Fraser Simon, also known as
2:25
Sigh, and good old Tonka Joe Ford, as they set sail on the
2:29
Hyperion 3 for a brown study, peregrinations, and a voyage
2:32
full of monsters that look like genitalia.
2:35
And what could possibly go wrong with that, eh?
2:39
Well, I think the script editor might resign, fandom might be up
2:45
in arms, but Oh my God, we get body Langfords.
2:51
You know why they call me Tonka, right?
2:55
No, I'll. Reveal it before the end of the
2:57
commentary as a side note, before we even go in.
3:00
So I mean, sorry, you better mention what the podcast is in a
3:02
minute. Will do I?
3:07
Was going to say, Oh, yeah, Luke Malloy did a strictly recently
3:10
and you doing that fabulous starting monologue there reminds
3:14
me. He's like, no, he goes, no, I
3:15
can't just say welcome back to Hamster Plumber.
3:17
Look, Fraser came on and it was full of jokes and it was
3:20
hilarious. You know, when you're going
3:22
through every single podcast to go in.
3:23
Yeah. And then he tried to do the same
3:26
thing and flubbed it on the first line.
3:29
I'm so sorry you're no Fraser, Gregory.
3:32
Well, welcome back to A Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife, the
3:35
Doctor Who Commentary podcast where we are embroiled in the
3:40
trial of the Time Lord and we've reached Part 9.
3:42
And as Fraser said, the case for the prosecution has ended and
3:45
the Doctor's companion Perry has been killed by order of the Time
3:48
Lord High Council. The situation looks bleak for
3:51
the Doctor as he commences his case for the defence, as the BBC
3:55
continuity announcer reminded us on the day this episode was
3:59
broadcast. Now rather lovely, lovely.
4:02
I saw this episode at my grandparents house in 1986
4:06
because it was half term. So it's my tale of you.
4:09
And today is actually the 9th anniversary of the death of my
4:12
grandma. So it's all sort of tied in
4:14
together. So it's, it's kind of nice that
4:17
we're we're doing this. So she wouldn't have remembered
4:20
me watching this, but I remember being in her living room some
4:25
seeing this on the old cold city.
4:27
And yeah, very yeah, happy memories.
4:30
I think, you know, I always go on about, you know, Colin being
4:36
like the dad's substitute in the TV.
4:39
Yeah, I think it was this story. I'm watching this back this
4:43
week. Just perfect. 6th Doctor in this
4:49
and we'll discuss it as we go through it.
4:51
But yeah, it's everything I want from the Doctor in this story,
4:55
and I'll go through my list that I've made as we go through it.
4:59
What I find fascinating in watching this is the way Colin's
5:04
performance is different in the trial room to the performance on
5:10
the ship, because Colin is clever and he's worked out.
5:13
He's obviously got the clues in the thing that he's going into
5:17
his future. So his doctor is different
5:20
because he's healed, he's changed after all the events and
5:26
the whole basis of his defence is going to be that he he gets
5:30
better. Yeah.
5:32
And so the, I think the doctor we see in the trial is, is
5:35
behaving like the doctor of old. But this then we've got this
5:39
glimpse of where the 6th Doctor is going.
5:41
You know, I love Big Finish, but I do consider, you know, Big
5:45
Finish is kind of a spin off of the TV show.
5:48
And so if it contradicts then the TV show Canon, oh God, swear
5:54
word is what goes. But I absolutely can say
5:58
retroactively that even smile period turns the Colin of mind
6:02
warp into the Colin of terror of the Vervoids.
6:05
Funny without charming A gentle caring about his companion, you
6:10
know, heroic. He's wonderful in this.
6:14
Yep, he is. So yeah, you need to.
6:23
Tell us. Your initial thoughts about this
6:26
story? And so, you know, going back in
6:28
1993 with the TARDIS tin, and this is the one that I enjoyed
6:33
the most, to be honest. And you know.
6:36
Bad of taste. Mysterious Planet, was it just,
6:41
you know, it was good, but it it didn't have much sparkle about
6:44
it. And Mind War place, it was just
6:47
a little bit down in a little bit, you know, not really what
6:50
you want when you're 13, but it's just had everything.
6:52
It had a bit of energy, had a bit of pace about it, had a bit
6:55
of that. It did have that sparkle.
6:57
It has a bit of fun about it. It's got Mel in it, which, you
7:02
know, we'll get into that. But you know, just sitting
7:06
watching it was just like, yeah, this is actually fun more than
7:09
anything. It's it's I think Mysterious
7:12
Planet is probably the best scripted segment of the trail.
7:17
I think the main warp is probably the best produced
7:23
segment of the trail, but this? Is much less for vervoys then
7:27
does it? Well, this is the best plotted
7:29
1, so this tells the best story. This is the most entertaining.
7:33
One, yes, it's most fun and yeah, I mean that certainly
7:36
appealed to me age 11. It was just like after after
7:42
mind warp. It was such a shift to have a
7:44
colourful story full of people you actually liked and, and I, I
7:50
adored it. So yeah, it sort of instantly
7:55
appealed to me as far more my Doctor Who than than the The
7:59
Mind War, particularly I. Mean this as an enormous
8:01
compliment when I say this is the archetypal Doctor Who story
8:05
of this season. And you need one this year,
8:09
right? Because it's so much of this
8:10
season is out of the norm, I think.
8:14
So this, you know, base under siege monsters, lots of
8:17
suspects, you know, great set pieces, you know, scary monsters
8:21
going around. This is meat and potatoes to
8:23
Doctor Who fans. But I think it's done really,
8:26
really well. And I think it does.
8:29
The best of all of all of those things, is I think cloth cast
8:33
this impeccably. Oh God, your.
8:35
Performances raise this wacky above the eccentric dialogue,
8:42
shall we say. But you need actors of a certain
8:46
calibre to wrestle with this dialogue and they do it with
8:50
with Elan. Sigh.
8:52
We can't unlearn knowledge, you know.
8:59
Should we go into Episode 1 and see what this thing has got to
9:02
offer? Well, I think I should adopt the
9:04
role of the Judas goat and count us in.
9:08
I don't want any of you 2 in a brown study throughout this.
9:11
OK, all right and no anti diluvian language please.
9:15
Right, OK, OK, so let's go in 54321.
9:24
I find the thing I'm learning about Trial of the Time Lords is
9:28
it's a really great season to watch with friends.
9:32
Because. Like whatever flaws we found in
9:35
the first two stories that we have the best time talking
9:39
about. Yeah.
9:42
There's certainly plenty to talk about and we're going to start
9:47
this story with with some of the best stuff from Colin.
9:51
He is so broken at the start of this and you can sense his grief
9:56
and his, his, his despair at that.
10:00
The Los Perry it's, it's superb. If I was going to put a story on
10:06
my CV, if I was Colin Baker to show everything I could do, it
10:09
would be this one. Absolutely.
10:12
Like, it's so frustrating, isn't it?
10:14
It's so he's, he's, he's just got it here, right?
10:18
He's got a companion he gets on with and he he understands the
10:21
role and they've pushed away a lot of that sort of nastiness.
10:25
And you could just see seasons and seasons of it.
10:27
I mean, go listen to Big Finish. You know, it was absolutely
10:30
possible. And then Axe came down.
10:33
Yeah, it was so unfair and and this is the last story he he
10:37
filmed. So he does the ultimate foe
10:40
before this. So this is actually his last,
10:43
his last stuff in the role. You've can't.
10:46
Tell as well. Because I was watching the
10:48
studio footage earlier today. Man, oh man.
10:51
He's entertaining everyone on the set, doing silly voices, and
10:54
he's having the best time playing the Doctor.
10:57
Oh great. He really was that's and that's,
11:00
that's I think that's the saddest thing is, you know, umm,
11:03
out of probably all the, the classic doctors he was, he
11:07
strikes us as the one that was the most keen on the role and
11:11
the most keen kind of come in and do a job and make an
11:14
impression and make a legacy and really, you know, do something
11:19
with it. And he was the one that was
11:21
probably the the most hard done by.
11:25
Fortunately, A fandom ultimately took him into their heart,
11:29
didn't they? So he did get to do that, but it
11:31
was just a a long journey. Oh, don't you?
11:34
I love all this very quick exposition.
11:36
Moga Precious minerals, A spaceship.
11:39
Someone's going to be a murderer.
11:41
There we go, Bang straight in. Yeah, that's all you need.
11:46
Yeah, oh, look at that ghastly furniture.
11:49
Oh, it's so 1986. It really is.
11:52
A home based, isn't it? Yeah, a lot of the twirly,
11:57
whirly ladder, though that suggests.
11:59
That there's a spiral staircase? I think that's what it's
12:01
technically. I used to work with a woman who
12:05
had had a phobia of spiral staircases, which was quite odd.
12:10
Why? Unique phobia.
12:12
I know, yeah. I'm sorry, I was mistaken the
12:15
ladder for the twirly whirly straws they've.
12:17
All got on their glasses. Oh, look who's here.
12:21
Oh no, Black. 1. Yoland Powfrey.
12:26
And whoever plays Raj, I don't. Know no thank.
12:29
You. Can we please start with honour?
12:34
Yes, we could certainly start with honour.
12:37
She's glorious it isn't it? She knows exactly what she's
12:40
doing. Yeah, so honour had been an
12:45
approach to be in Doctor Who previously and had turned down
12:49
the role of Vivian Faye in The Stones of Blood.
12:53
It would have been great, it would have been, it would be
12:56
lovely, she said. But Bea Lehman is going to have
12:58
all the fun and hopefully one day I can do 1 and here she is.
13:05
It it is literally leaning into what would become like a staple
13:10
of Sunday night ITV drama. Pull together an Agatha Christie
13:16
and get the biggest names you can possibly find.
13:19
Absolutely. And that's a big name on a black
13:21
man, isn't it? Yeah, so here's we've got
13:25
Bruckner here who is returning from being in Doctor Who and the
13:30
Leisure Hive where he is Stimpson the the scientist who's
13:36
trying to cheat and make lots of money and Yep, not bending the
13:41
rules. So bit of a bit of a a
13:44
stereotyping there is. That it sorry.
13:46
Do you wish to see the Leisure Hive inscribed in the history
13:50
books? Well, obviously subscribing the
13:54
history books of the history of a hamster with a blunt pen
13:56
knife. One thing as well that really
13:59
struck me listening to this is the theatrical nature of the
14:03
performances. In this story in particular, I
14:06
think you could put this on the stage with absolutely no.
14:09
Absolutely, Yeah. I mean, you only need sort of
14:11
three or four different, different stage sets and you're
14:15
you're ready to go. Yeah, and someone else who's
14:17
ready to. Go 3435.
14:24
Never see Ian Levine going. What's going on?
14:28
41 watched. Did Levine watch or was?
14:34
He of course he watched. Hate it, Hate it or what?
14:36
He did watch. Yeah, of course he watched.
14:40
Oh, isn't carrot juice horrible? Have you tried it?
14:44
Yes. It's misery.
14:47
It's very popular though. We sell it on our bucket loads
14:49
in the shop. Bonnie.
14:50
Langford hates it and Colin Baker loves it so I am.
14:54
So I've been told by by my wonderful boyfriend that I have
14:58
to mention the fact that Bonnie Langford takes her dog to the
15:02
vets just up the road in in Bracknell.
15:05
So at least she did when I met her one time and I was talking
15:09
about where I live. So there we go.
15:11
I I point to it every time we drive past.
15:14
I can't remember which one of you said it, it was in the mind
15:17
walk, but that, you know, that was a big draw.
15:19
And we even accredited the possible lift in the ratings for
15:24
this story because we're suddenly at 55 to 6 million in
15:29
the fact that that Bonnie was playing the companion.
15:31
Yeah, there was a big publicity push.
15:33
So that, So what I think one of the last things Colin did was
15:38
sort of around this time was go out.
15:40
He did sort of a big publicity thing to introduce Bonnie.
15:44
So there's photos of him looking beardy and sort of with autumn
15:49
leaves and stuff, which would have been exact sort of this
15:51
this week. So there was was a push to sort
15:54
of reinvigorate the show and remind people it was there and
15:58
and stuff. And that that did pay off.
16:00
It did give it a boost. And what I've got to point this
16:05
to Fraser, because I've not heard him talk for a little
16:06
while. I've heard, unusually if I'm
16:08
honest. What do you think of Bonnie as
16:11
male then? Bonnie is male.
16:13
I think you can't fault because Bonnie Langford is the concept
16:18
of professional. You know, she is incredibly hard
16:21
work and incredibly dedicated to our craft and you cannot fault
16:24
Bonnie Langford whatsoever. I think the problem that I've
16:28
always had, well 2 problems reading 1 is that Bonnie
16:32
Langford has been brought in to do a specific job.
16:35
What? Since she's doing that job,
16:37
she's. The body.
16:38
Langford. Well, more just, you know, be
16:41
the opposite of Perry to be. Well, that's a problem.
16:46
Well, it's a little bit too too high.
16:50
The performance it's, you know, one you've you've had Perry,
16:55
you've kind of used, you know, you've had, you know, Nick
16:58
Lebright, that's Perry for a couple of years.
17:01
You're kind of used to that sort of dynamic and then all of a
17:04
sudden you get slapped in the face with carrot juice and Mel
17:08
and it's all just very big in in your.
17:12
Face Mayday, we have to respond. Come on, Doctor.
17:17
Hurry. I think part of the problem is
17:21
she's not given any direction on how to play this.
17:24
She's finding her way and so she's doing it like it's an
17:31
exaggerated version of her, which the writing is sort of
17:34
pushing us towards. She's been.
17:36
Brought in. She's been brought in to do
17:38
that, you know, And she is, you know, in terms of performance,
17:42
she's very theatrical in as much as you know, they're.
17:47
Made for each other. Yeah, exactly.
17:49
So, you know, you can not only just see this being staged, but
17:53
you can see Bonnie Langford's performance is a stage
17:56
performance. She is projecting to the gods so
18:00
that everyone gets. There are moments in this,
18:02
though, where they bring it right down the two of them when
18:05
they're sort of whispering to each other.
18:06
The end, when the Vervoys are killed and it's like all done in
18:10
absolute silence. There are moments.
18:13
And I think that moment there where where he said, And we
18:16
won't go blundering into a trap either.
18:19
Very different from my world, isn't it?
18:21
Yeah. Absolutely.
18:22
He's learned like, like we said, but also Mel's the one who's
18:26
pushing him into the adventure, and he's the one who's now a bit
18:30
more. Well, this is it.
18:30
This is, you know, the the they've made this conscious
18:33
decision. The new also, it seems at least
18:35
is that the new companion is going to be the the pole of
18:38
opposite of the old one. So when the old one was not, you
18:41
know, had to be dragged out the TARDIS and, you know, taking in
18:44
this, you know, the the new one is going to be the one that's
18:48
dragging the notes. Obviously you have to then shift
18:51
the Doctor's perspective. As well.
18:54
I do think the positives outweigh the negative, though,
18:56
to have now, it's not the Doctor patronizing his companions that
19:01
it's a team of equals. And you're right, she's so
19:06
proactive. She's got so much agency.
19:09
Yeah, she's. She's full of energy and she's
19:11
full of. She brings out charm and humour
19:14
in him as well, in a way that Perry very often brought out the
19:18
prick in him, and I don't mean his cock, you know.
19:21
He seems to genuinely like her, yeah.
19:26
Yes, yeah. Although we were getting there
19:28
with Perry, but. This is where there was from
19:30
the. Star, you know.
19:31
Well, this is this is the second issue that I've always had with
19:34
Mel and we discussed this when if you cast your minds back and
19:38
we did our very first podcast together, which was the two
19:40
doctors. And when there's no in proper
19:46
introduction to Mel, Mel is just there on the get go.
19:50
So you don't have a story that introduces Mel, gives you a bit
19:53
of background, gives you a bit of understanding of the
19:56
character, and then settles out as the companion.
19:59
So you don't have like, your Planet of Fire or your face of
20:03
Evil or your Terror of the Autumns or anything which
20:06
introduces your property to the companion.
20:08
All you get is she's right there, right in your face, like
20:13
a big fire alarm going off in carrot juice.
20:17
So that's all around. Her it's it's, it's the same as
20:21
like Doodle. I've always had that with Doodle
20:23
as well. It's just like you go from.
20:25
Just there. Yeah, it's just there.
20:27
And all of a sudden she is the companion and.
20:30
And especially when Mel's being quite as bossy with the Doctor
20:33
as she is. That's brilliant though, I
20:36
think, because that's what Evelyn did with the Doctor and
20:39
suddenly it just punches that pomposity.
20:42
It's it's a bit. Of a big thing and it's back to
20:46
the pert with Joe thing when Joe really, really comes into the to
20:51
her own when she's she's there pricking the doctor's pomposity
20:55
all the time and undercutting him.
20:58
But he's not making him ridiculous.
21:00
It's just making her look stronger.
21:02
The bit where she, she's talking to Lasky and the doctor's trying
21:06
to get a word in edgeways and he just can't.
21:09
Yeah, it's a It's a far cry from the Twin Dilemma, isn't?
21:13
It yeah, absolutely it is. And look at these.
21:15
Pods in the half dark. Yeah, it's, oh, they never turn
21:19
the lights down in the 80s, just like to say never turn the
21:22
lights. Down and the way they start
21:24
breathing now. Oh.
21:26
Yeah. Sorry, that's so ASMR there for
21:28
you. Don Babbage doing the lighting,
21:31
Yeah. He's always a genius.
21:33
And you know, he's it's got Red Dwarf vibes.
21:38
I mean, we love this shit, don't we?
21:40
Breathing pods, come on. Yeah, spaceships.
21:43
Industrial metal sheds. Strange aliens doing whatever
21:48
whatever he's doing. With silver sprayed minstrels
21:52
is. It sugar almonds.
21:54
Oh, it's sugar almonds, isn't it?
21:55
Not minstrels, So. Fresh from the the set of green
21:58
claws I've seen. Like as a scene setter.
22:01
And this throws up about 50 mysteries, doesn't it?
22:04
There's so much happening here and.
22:06
I think this is this is the, this is where this one of the
22:10
words are. You said there was the
22:11
archetypal Doctor Who, you know, meat and potatoes.
22:13
But what really gives it that sparkle is the mystery element
22:17
of, you know, taking this idea, we're going to do a bog standard
22:23
story, but we will put a bit of a spin on it and make it Agatha
22:26
Christie in space where it's a whodunit.
22:28
It's a mystery throughout. I think that really works, Yeah,
22:33
Brilliantly elevating the story itself.
22:36
What I think what's so genius about the whodunit here is
22:40
there's about 5 people who've done it for various reasons and
22:44
different plots. You can't really figure out the
22:46
one person because. Because they tick it a lot.
22:49
They are such efficient plotters you watch in episode 4, they
22:53
tick every single one off satisfyingly.
22:55
Exactly. But you know, the, the, the way
22:58
the plot is, you know, it's just the piercing.
23:01
You know, it's four, it's across 4 episodes.
23:03
It's, it's kind of like, you know, set up your mystery, you
23:07
know, elaborate on your mystery. Bring the Vervoids in slowly and
23:10
slowly and slowly until by the end when the art is kind of all
23:13
mincing around, you know, shooting people left right and
23:18
set up with the webby hands, Then you know, it's it's it's if
23:24
you were watching this over the four weeks, then you would have
23:28
that perfect, I think. I, I, I, I won't keep banging on
23:32
about Mel because there's so much else to talk about.
23:34
I just find all this so refreshing where she goes,
23:36
right. I'll go and go and look around
23:38
the passenger quarters and poke my nose into a few nooks and
23:41
crannies. I just think she's wonderful in
23:43
this. I do, I, I think it is in such a
23:46
sharp contrast from Perry's sort of stuttering.
23:51
Oh, I want to go back to the TARDIS and being nervous at
23:53
everything. I I do find that more real
23:56
though. I find that more.
23:57
Yeah, but for two seasons. Yeah, but it's.
24:00
You and and to be and actually it's probably more like 5
24:04
seasons because we've had that with Tegan a lot of the time as
24:07
well. So yeah, it's Arsene looks
24:11
amazing strange. Look at that amazing strange
24:13
sense. Oh, sorry.
24:15
I was looking at Bonnie's bum. I didn't say.
24:18
That, but what what is also quite refreshing about this one
24:22
is we're actually getting a chance to get involved in the
24:26
story. We haven't been back to the
24:28
trial room and Pip and Jane keep the trial to a minimum and only
24:33
when the doctor needs to. No, no they don't.
24:37
Pip and Jane have put all the trial stuff in.
24:39
It's Chris Clough who was keeping it to a minimum because
24:42
the episodes overrun. Yeah, yeah, it's a zoom around
24:47
and Chris. Is there loads in the extended
24:48
one then Fraser? Yeah, yeah.
24:50
I've forgot about. I haven't watched the extended
24:52
one. I haven't.
24:52
Watched the extended while start watching the deleted scenes
24:54
before and but it's it's it's all there's so there's loads and
24:59
loads of just the same thing of like bringing, but it's
25:02
pointless. So Chris Clough has just went
25:04
well, got 25 minutes, you know everything.
25:06
So he just puts the pertinent ones in.
25:08
No, he just cuts them into as well.
25:09
There's some, though. There's some in there.
25:11
There's some, but it's only because you know if you cut them
25:14
all out you wouldn't. There's my favorite one of all,
25:17
you know, there's the bit where he goes.
25:18
Every fibre of my being would have made me prevent her, yet
25:22
you. Did not Oh God the.
25:25
Words misused don't even sound like mine.
25:29
The ones that kind of extend, you know, like, you know,
25:34
enhance the plot or kept in the ones that actually adds to me.
25:37
But a lot of them is true. It is just literally the the the
25:44
valley yard making cheap points. And so they just cuts about and
25:50
it's all about for it because, like you say, it floors he.
25:52
When you get your first trial scene again, you don't even
25:57
notice it. Yeah, you do.
25:59
You go. Oh, crap.
26:00
Yeah. Well, yeah.
26:01
My dear Fraser, if you wish to continue with this completely
26:04
arbitrary course, I'll stop there.
26:09
Yes, give us to me some of every peregrinations.
26:14
Arbitrary course. Did you see Colin with the
26:16
flowers? Then he's.
26:19
So charming. Oh, that bit where he's going up
26:23
the stairs there, right. He's talking to the, the, what's
26:26
it called? The, the guy on the studio
26:28
floor. Yeah.
26:29
And where to move. And he goes, well, I can't stand
26:31
there. There's a bloody plant in my
26:32
way. Because you want me to go up one
26:34
step. Sometimes watching those are
26:37
quite interesting. You know, you see how they make
26:39
it all. Yeah, we can learn quite a lot
26:41
from that, so. Sorry, why is any low spectrum
26:44
light allowed? Because if you have it's plants,
26:47
so if you give them high intensity light, they're going
26:50
to photosynthesise and come to life.
26:52
So you can't have high intensity lights.
26:55
You know. Who works in a horticultural
26:57
library and knows their science? Thank you for bringing all your
27:00
smarts today. You know, I've got to say, this
27:03
fella, what's his name? The special agent, The doctor's
27:06
friend. Oh, Mr. Hallett, Mr. Hallett,
27:10
Yeah, or. Grenville, it's a.
27:11
Very, very strange way of communicating, doesn't he,
27:14
Leaving boots and seeds and things instead of just a note
27:17
that says, doctor, it's me, come to the hydroponic centre.
27:22
But it wouldn't be much of A mystery.
27:23
I, you know, true. Yeah, this is hokey rooms.
27:29
I've always don't. Now in a bedroom together.
27:31
Yeah, good grief, she gets in the shower later, doesn't she?
27:36
She does gets a bit steamy in there as well.
27:41
Pick wrote that scene. You mean he was allowed to write
27:45
a scene? I It's so popular to dig at
27:49
Pippen. Jane Baker.
27:50
I just. Won't hear it all right.
27:53
I think they understood the version of the opportunity they
27:56
wanted to write. They understood just.
27:58
Perfectly. I know their dialogue is
28:01
overblown and it's more personal particularly.
28:08
But in my book, that's. Murder, you know what?
28:14
You can sense everyone having fun with it and running with it.
28:18
And the actors can say these lines and make make the most of
28:22
them. You know, I've they absolutely
28:26
understand plotting. They absolutely understand story
28:30
structure. They absolutely understand that
28:31
Doctor Who central character is Doctor Who and put Colin at the
28:37
forefront of this story in the way that he's been so sidelined
28:43
so often in his own series. And you can see Colin responding
28:48
to this positively. He is seizing this script
28:52
because finally he's got There's no question that he's the hero.
28:56
There's no question that this is his show.
28:59
He must have got that script and gone.
29:01
Oh my God. Finally something to do.
29:03
He's got Pip and Jane Breaker on the front.
29:06
What I also find that Pip and Jane Baker do really well though
29:09
is them find the space for the companion as well.
29:12
Yes. So you know, when when we're
29:14
seeing that, you know it's Mel driving the part that is Mel,
29:18
you know, being proactive and having the agency.
29:21
That's all thanks to Pip and Jane.
29:23
You know, they have created this character and given her as much,
29:28
you know, as this format of saying, well, she's already in
29:30
place allows them, you know, given her her character and
29:35
essence. You know, they do exactly the
29:36
same with Perry in the Mark of the Rani, which you know, it has
29:42
to be watched with the subtitles to enjoy it properly.
29:44
But you know, they remember that Perry's, you know, a botany
29:49
student. So they give us stuff to do with
29:51
plants. When we come back to time in the
29:54
Ronnie and they're writing that they remember that Mel is a
29:57
computer program. And so they give a computer
29:59
programming to do they, you know, yes, it's it's Doctor Who,
30:04
but they don't lose sight of the fact that there's another
30:08
regular cast member there and give them acres of.
30:10
Rita in Time of the Ronnie. Mel is in and out of the
30:13
Ronnie's HQ more times than Homer is in the Myth Makers
30:17
novelisation. I mean, she, she's absolutely is
30:23
driving the rebellion in that one.
30:25
Absolutely. But I think as well, they know,
30:27
they know kids want, they want monsters, they want set pieces,
30:31
you know, so you got that wonderful set piece of mail, you
30:35
know, don't throw the towel in when she's got enough overrider.
30:38
It's so tense and yeah. They want to give you great
30:41
memorable cliffhangers as well, you know, and you know, they do,
30:46
they tie in like science and horticulture and history and
30:51
all. So they do give it an
30:53
educational bet as well. I, it may not be the most
30:57
sophisticated Doctor Who, maybe that's still to come in sort of
30:59
Cartmel's time, but I think it's like, I've mean this positively.
31:03
It's so competently done. It's nuts and bolts Doctor Who,
31:08
and there's absolutely a play. This is exactly what you know.
31:14
In some ways, this is probably what Doctor Who needed this year
31:17
more than anything, just to be really great, interesting
31:22
stories full of interesting characters, competently told and
31:28
acted by some of the best actors in the UKI.
31:33
Mean this is definitely elevated.
31:36
It's a good it's a really good script, but it is elevated by
31:39
the cast and the director. But I think, you know, what it
31:43
also has and what is also something that the bakers
31:47
realize it needs to have is something that wants you to come
31:51
back next week. Yeah.
31:53
Yeah. So it's not just a case of,
31:55
well, you know, it's a strong, you know, doesn't matter if I
31:57
miss, you know, there's an engagement with the viewer to
32:00
say, you know, come on this journey with us.
32:02
So you've got that mystery. Yes.
32:04
You know of it hooks you in and says, yeah, keep coming back
32:09
until we find out who this murderer or murderers.
32:12
Is I always used to think that the first cliffhanger, which is
32:17
banger, was the best cliffhanger of the season.
32:19
I think it might be the second for me now because it's so
32:22
unexpected and it's so. Yeah, the second one.
32:25
The second one would be better if it ended with the close up of
32:29
the half Vervoy's half human face and not Colin.
32:33
I think they just slightly mismanaged that and if that had
32:38
been the image that stayed in your head for the for the next
32:41
week, that would have been brilliant.
32:43
Are you saying so you want the story to end on a pulsing, veiny
32:46
tubescence? Absolutely.
32:48
But we don't want you going for don't want you breaking your
32:51
neck. At least not until.
32:53
This is so great and he does a wonderful pull up with the
32:57
camera as everything's got. Explosions and his Bonnies
33:01
screaming and the. Hands coming out and.
33:06
It's not Colin Baker's. Not even there.
33:08
What's going on? That's it.
33:12
How? Could that be a cliffhanger?
33:13
It's not a trial cliffhanger then I'm sorry there's no
33:16
picture of his putting your face.
33:18
Well, that is 7 two yeah, in the score of, umm, cliffhangers
33:24
with. Well done.
33:25
And with a a crash room on Colin Baker's face, we are at.
33:29
No offence to episodes 1 of Mysterious Planet and Mind Warp,
33:34
I think they've both got great episodes.
33:36
Ones that is the best episode 1 of the season.
33:40
It sets up this story so dynamically I think.
33:43
Yeah, the scene set. Can't deny that.
33:46
And who wouldn't want to come back after that?
33:49
Exactly. Yeah, come on, the.
33:52
Promise of monsters, murder and mayhem.
33:56
Yeah, what are in those pods? Imagine 13 year old Joe with his
34:00
little tin between his legs. So excited watching this for the
34:03
first time. Oh Fraser, behave yourself.
34:08
Well, I'm talking about the TARDIS tin. 11 year old really
34:13
loved that episode so there we go.
34:17
And it's, I think it's a grower as well.
34:18
I think this is a story that independent of the season, you
34:23
can just put on. If you're ever like shitty day,
34:25
this is a great one to put on. Yeah, this, I mean the whole,
34:29
this whole thing, it's just effortless.
34:31
It's effortlessly watchable and enjoyable and quotable as we
34:36
have firm again. And so far from being on its
34:39
last legs that the higher ups in the BBC seem to be suggesting
34:43
and fandom seem to be suggesting at the time.
34:46
And Eric Sabred seemed to be suggesting.
34:48
But we'll, we'll come on to that.
34:50
This is like basically J&T just waving the flag, he bringing in
34:54
his Bezi mates Pip and Jane Baker because he knows how quite
34:57
a good script and just killing it.
35:00
Yeah, I mean, we all know the number of scripts that got
35:05
passed over to get to this point.
35:07
There's at least three different stories that don't get made that
35:11
could have been in this slot. So we've got Paradise 5, we've
35:17
got Piner Kafeka by Christopher H Bidmead, and the other one
35:23
that Big Finish did. Can't think what it was called.
35:26
What? If Pioneer Kafeka or whatever
35:28
you just said there would have wound up in the script.
35:33
Oh, probably. Probably the name of a, Yeah.
35:35
Who don't you know? So Fraser, I believe we've got
35:39
some work to do. You've given us some homework.
35:41
Well, yes. Well, yeah, because this is a
35:44
legendary cliffhanger. Because the.
35:47
Is it Edwards, the man who pushes the door open?
35:51
And it's got a nasty plan for Mel, hasn't he?
35:54
Because, you know, we don't want you to break your neck, at least
35:58
not until then. He never gets to finish that
36:00
sentence. What?
36:01
What does he want Mel to do before she breaks her neck?
36:05
Essentially it's it's just like that line in the wards of Mars
36:08
where it says you never could. Forgive me Adelaide, what was
36:12
coming next? Yes.
36:15
So I I set this to the to the Ham farm from our lovely
36:19
audience this morning and said finish the sentence then and
36:24
this is what people have come up with.
36:27
So are you going first, John? Oh, OK, yes, we don't want you
36:30
breaking your neck, says Daniel Rawlsley.
36:33
At least not until Murray Gold has released the Series 10
36:36
soundtrack, which is coming any day now.
36:38
Yep, promise. For real this time.
36:41
At last. Finally, Just you wait.
36:47
We don't want you breaking your leg.
36:49
At least not until Tom Newson says you've signed my 7 inch
36:52
single of just one kiss. We don't want you breaking your
36:58
neck, James Locke, at least not until you've had the chance to
37:02
scream in the key of F to lead into the title theme.
37:05
Which would be a lovely idea. Except that title theme is in
37:07
the key of E minor, and your scream is actually on D.
37:09
So I wonder if perhaps this off quoted but rarely checked
37:12
anecdote is entirely apocryphal. We don't want you breaking your
37:19
neck, at least not until Andrew Orton says you've been pulled
37:22
out of time by the Time Lords to give evidence at the Doctor's
37:25
trial, which has already taken place in his past.
37:28
Because that would create a hole in the fabric of the space-time
37:30
continuum which could destroy the universe.
37:33
And I bet you're wondering how I know this.
37:34
Well, I just do. We don't want you breaking your
37:39
neck, at least not until James HB.
37:42
You're someone else's responsibility and I won't get
37:45
the blame. We don't want you breaking your
37:50
neck, at least not until Lucson's Jenkins has checked
37:53
that you've made sure how you can reach down there with your
37:55
face. There are wakings.
37:58
Uncharted Denkins, Honestly. We don't, we don't want you
38:06
breaking your neck, says Lucy McCall.
38:08
At least not until the washing up is finished.
38:11
I would have touched the fence as well.
38:16
We don't want you breaking your neck, at least not until Simon
38:19
Fredgold. You've read anything by Philip
38:21
Norman? Then death will be a sweet
38:24
reward. We don't want you breaking your
38:28
neck. At least not until Paulie has
38:30
done his breakdown audition for the Hot shoe show.
38:34
We have what you break in your neck.
38:36
At least not until David GP says you've introduced me properly to
38:40
your friend. What sort of stuff is he into?
38:42
Do you think buying him a drink will seal the deal?
38:45
She froze him into the wall. It's not cabbage juice I think.
38:50
Give him with a chance. Bye.
38:53
We don't want you breaking your neck, at least not until Anthony
38:56
Carroll you find Daleks master plan episode 12.
39:04
We don't want you breaking your neck, at least not until
39:06
Colonial has used you to use your computer skills to fix his
39:09
MB modem. Is that a euphemism?
39:13
We. Never know, we don't want you
39:15
breaking your neck, says Pete Lambert.
39:17
And not least not until we've made the most of the six room on
39:21
Deck 69. That's the real reason we've got
39:23
to burn all the towels on this ship.
39:28
We don't want you breaking your neck, at least not until Gareth
39:31
Bowley. It's strengthened for the
39:33
pressure of bodily rotation in exploding SFX ball.
39:42
And the last one, then, is from a guy I've never heard of
39:44
before. But we don't want you breaking
39:46
your neck. At least not until Joe Ford says
39:49
I've tasted that juicy orange. Bill.
39:55
I'll cut it there. Stop it.