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Glam Yoga Teacher Charged in Love Murder Insists: 'I'VE GOT AN ALIBI' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Caitlyn Armstrong remember that name?
0:16
Speaker 1: I sure do. Do you remember the name Mariah Wilson,
0:21
Speaker 1: a twenty five year old world class biker. Well, she
0:28
Speaker 1: was murdered and now scorned lover. Caitlyn Armstrong's defense team
0:36
Speaker 1: is fighting back against murder claims guns a blazing, using
0:42
Speaker 1: every single trick in the book, including demanding that crucial
0:49
Speaker 1: states evidence be thrown out like the defendant's statement, and
0:55
Speaker 1: also branding the entire murder investoration as misogynistic and basically
1:05
Speaker 1: labeling all the police, all the Texas Rangers, the investigators
1:11
Speaker 1: as women haters. I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
1:17
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation
1:19
Speaker 1: and Serious XM one eleven. First of all, take a
1:23
Speaker 1: listen to the so called scorned lover or Caitlin Armstrong's
1:28
Speaker 1: lawyer or defense lawyers speaking to our friends at Dateline.
1:32
Speaker 1: The crux of law enforcement's theory. From within the first
1:36
Speaker 1: twenty four hours of this case, they had decided that
1:40
Speaker 1: Caitlyn Armstrong is a crazy, jealous person who, in a
1:45
Speaker 1: fit of rage, murdered miss Wilson. The whole case against
1:51
Speaker 1: Kate Armstrong is predicated on a deeply misogynistic view of her.
2:00
Speaker 1: M I wonder if the murder weapon being in her
2:04
Speaker 1: control at her domicile after the murder, and a car
2:10
Speaker 1: looking just like hers going around and round and round
2:15
Speaker 1: the victim's apartment just before her murder, and likely GPS
2:19
Speaker 1: and cell phone data showing that she was following Mariah
2:24
Speaker 1: around the whole evening before she was murder What if
2:27
Speaker 1: that has anything to do with it? Or maybe it
2:29
Speaker 1: was her statement to a friend beforehand, I hate her
2:32
Speaker 1: so much, I kill her. What if that hadn't anything
2:37
Speaker 1: at all to do with it. Wow, But besides branding
2:41
Speaker 1: all the detectives, investigators and Texas Rangers as women haters
2:47
Speaker 1: and the whole reason their client is behind bars is
2:50
Speaker 1: because of a misogynistic woman hating investigation, he's got more.
2:57
Speaker 1: Take a listen to the defense lawyer, pretty good lawyer too,
3:01
Speaker 1: Rick Coefer speaking to our friends in NBC. So this
3:04
Speaker 1: dark colored sut h, that's where the detective really wants
3:08
Speaker 1: to start to hang this horrible crime on Klin Armstrong.
3:12
Speaker 1: There's no evidence presented ever of a license plate on
3:18
Speaker 1: this vehicle, of any description of an occupant of the vehicle,
3:24
Speaker 1: Cooper said, that can to be Caitlin in the g
3:27
Speaker 1: for one simple reason. You can't be in two places
3:30
Speaker 1: at once. That's is kind of some simple maths. Simple math. Well,
3:35
Speaker 1: I don't know that they taught math and law school.
3:38
Speaker 1: But is he going to get away with this? Is
3:41
Speaker 1: this lawyer again, pretty good lawyer, Rick Koefer actually able?
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Speaker 1: Is he able to convince a jury that it looks
3:50
Speaker 1: like a duck, It walks like a duck, it quacks
3:53
Speaker 1: like a duck, but it's not a duck. Take a
3:57
Speaker 1: listen to more. You're saying that she wasn't in the
4:00
Speaker 1: vicinity of the murder when the murder occurred, and you
4:02
Speaker 1: can prove it. I don't have to prove that that's
4:05
Speaker 1: not just a simple mask, was an error, so that
4:08
Speaker 1: maybe they let me put it in this way. It
4:10
Speaker 1: implies that you have proof. I expect this the government's
4:14
Speaker 1: own evidence will quit. Kaylen Armstrong. They just haven't looked
4:17
Speaker 1: at it. Kaylin Armstrong is not guilty, and if this
4:21
Speaker 1: case goes to trial, if the district attorney doesn't dismiss
4:24
Speaker 1: it before trial, she will be found not guilty. I've
4:27
Speaker 1: got an all star panel to make sense of what
4:29
Speaker 1: we know right now, including Dave matt with Crime onlam
4:32
Speaker 1: with the very latest in the investigation. But first to
4:35
Speaker 1: IRV brand former US Marshall International Investigations Branch, he really
4:40
Speaker 1: comes in handy because for some reason, even though she
4:44
Speaker 1: obviously according to her lawyer, didn't do it, she took
4:47
Speaker 1: off and head under an assumed name and got a
4:50
Speaker 1: nose job and hung out in Costa Rica. IRV brand
4:53
Speaker 1: steered us through finding her there. Wow, is that her
4:56
Speaker 1: sister's passport she was using? Okay, that's a whole nother
4:59
Speaker 1: cannon worms at IRV Brandt joining us RV also author
5:04
Speaker 1: Flying Solo Top of the World on Amazon. You can
5:07
Speaker 1: find him at V Brandt b r A n DT
5:11
Speaker 1: dot com erv. Don't you love it when a defense
5:17
Speaker 1: attorney or a suspect is pressed for hard evidence such as, well,
5:22
Speaker 1: she can't be at two places at one time, the
5:25
Speaker 1: timeline doesn't fit. She has an airtight alibi, and you
5:29
Speaker 1: go great, what And they go, well, I don't have
5:33
Speaker 1: to prove that or what she says. She has an
5:38
Speaker 1: airtight alibi. You're going to prove she was somewhere else?
5:41
Speaker 1: Why not tell us, well, it's true, Nancy, As you know,
5:45
Speaker 1: being the prosecutor dealing with defense attorneys, they're going to
5:49
Speaker 1: attack the government's case. They're not going to almost never
5:54
Speaker 1: present their own case, present their own evidence. They're just
5:57
Speaker 1: going to attack what the government has and basically call
6:03
Speaker 1: it a bunch of lies, but of some kind of conspiracy.
6:08
Speaker 1: And that she was maybe perhaps on vacation like an
6:12
Speaker 1: ordinary citizen down in Costa Rica, even though that she
6:17
Speaker 1: traveled on false passports. Well, you know, some women like
6:19
Speaker 1: to hide the fact they're getting plastic surgery. How about that?
6:23
Speaker 1: And she really hit it. She was living in a
6:25
Speaker 1: hostel on a bunk bed with other bunch of people
6:28
Speaker 1: that didn't want to pay for a full on hotel.
6:31
Speaker 1: She was eating like beans out of a can. That's
6:36
Speaker 1: going a long way to hide your nose. Job it is,
6:40
Speaker 1: and it's gonna it's not gonna work out. Well, I mean,
6:44
Speaker 1: hold on, let me go to brother under the skin
6:48
Speaker 1: of the defense attorney Matthew Mangino, former district attorney form
6:53
Speaker 1: a parole board. I don't like that all of the
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Speaker 1: executioner's toll, highly respected lawyer Matthew him and Gino. You
7:01
Speaker 1: see where this is going. But don't you love it?
7:04
Speaker 1: When the defense or the defendant goes, I have an alibi,
7:07
Speaker 1: I wasn't there, So you go, well where are you?
7:10
Speaker 1: Where were you? I don't how to tell you that?
7:13
Speaker 1: What just it doesn't even have you never talked to
7:15
Speaker 1: a crazy person and they look sane and they just
7:20
Speaker 1: it's all like gibberish coming out of their mouth. This
7:23
Speaker 1: lawyer is a pretty good lawyer, this Kofer. But when
7:27
Speaker 1: he gets put on the hot seat, which just one question,
7:30
Speaker 1: I thought he lost credibility. I think, Nancy, when you
7:33
Speaker 1: tried the case in the court of public opinion, which
7:37
Speaker 1: is what he's doing right now. He's trying to put out,
7:39
Speaker 1: you know, what he thinks are defects in the prosecution's case,
7:44
Speaker 1: and he's doing a pretty good job of it too.
7:47
Speaker 1: But you open yourself up to exactly what you're saying, well, well,
7:50
Speaker 1: what's your alibi or what's your defense? And then you
7:53
Speaker 1: want to back off and say, well, I don't have
7:55
Speaker 1: to prove anything the prosecution has. Certainly the prosecution has
7:59
Speaker 1: to prove the case beyond reasonable doubt. But if you're
8:02
Speaker 1: going to open up this can of worms in the public,
8:05
Speaker 1: then you better be prepared to provide some basis for
8:09
Speaker 1: the allegations that you're making. Now, I think they've filed
8:13
Speaker 1: some very interesting motions. The emotion to suppressed. Hey, hey, hey,
8:19
Speaker 1: hold on, wait a minute, Wait a minute, Wait a minute.
8:22
Speaker 1: I'm going to get into the emotions right now. You
8:25
Speaker 1: brought it up, Matthew Mangino, So buckle up. Take a
8:28
Speaker 1: listen to our friends at k x A N attorneys
8:31
Speaker 1: for an Austin woman accused of killing cyclist Mariah Wilson.
8:35
Speaker 1: We're back in court today for the second day of
8:37
Speaker 1: a pre trial hearing that began last week. Attorneys for
8:41
Speaker 1: Caitlin Armstrong filed what's called a Frank's motion. This is
8:44
Speaker 1: a legal proceeding when a court is asked to determine
8:47
Speaker 1: whether a police officer or a detective line or used
8:50
Speaker 1: reckless disregard for the truth in pursuing an a rest warrant.
8:53
Speaker 1: The judge is expected to issue a ruling on November ninth.
8:57
Speaker 1: The Armstrong's attorneys are basically accusing the Austin police of
9:00
Speaker 1: violating her constitutional rights, first by detaining her under false pretenses,
9:05
Speaker 1: then not reading her her Miranda rights, then repeatedly ignoring
9:09
Speaker 1: her requests for an attorney, and they want a jury
9:12
Speaker 1: to see none of that interrogation. You were also hearing
9:16
Speaker 1: our friend at ABC, that was matt and Gutman. Okay,
9:19
Speaker 1: so you've gotten this Frank's motion happening Matthew Mengino, which
9:25
Speaker 1: essentially claims that a detective lied or used reckless disregard
9:31
Speaker 1: for the truth in the investigation. And you have a
9:35
Speaker 1: claim that she was arrested under false pretenses. Now, remember
9:39
Speaker 1: she was arrested for an outstanding warrant. That outstanding warrant
9:44
Speaker 1: was based on the fact that if you want to
9:46
Speaker 1: believe some video in a nail shop, wasn't that what
9:50
Speaker 1: it was? She went and had her nails done, Jackie,
9:53
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of beauty treatments. Oh excuse me, botox, Yes, botox,
9:59
Speaker 1: and so there's a several hundred dollars bill, maybe six
10:02
Speaker 1: seven hundred dollars. She takes out one credit card and says,
10:06
Speaker 1: let me go get my other credit card out of
10:08
Speaker 1: the car. I want to use it instead. So the
10:10
Speaker 1: staff says, surego. She left, got in her car and left.
10:15
Speaker 1: So there was an outstanding warrant for her. That's why
10:20
Speaker 1: she was initially brought in. Of course, the cops also
10:23
Speaker 1: believe that she was the killer that she killed twenty
10:27
Speaker 1: five year old Mariah Wilson. But bringing her in on
10:31
Speaker 1: that open warrant was absolutely or brand jump in. You're
10:34
Speaker 1: in the Marshall Service, absolutely above board. You can arrest
10:39
Speaker 1: somebody on an open warrant. You absolutely can't whether the
10:44
Speaker 1: warrant turns out to be valid or not. Well, they
10:47
Speaker 1: had her wrong dB on there. That's not going to
10:50
Speaker 1: defeat the warrant because they had a d OB wrong. No,
10:53
Speaker 1: they had they were It was perfectly proper for them
10:57
Speaker 1: to bring her in on that warrant. Oh and the
11:02
Speaker 1: statements that she made during that time can be used. Absolutely.
11:08
Speaker 1: If she defense, it's going to want to suppress it.
11:11
Speaker 1: But yeah, if she had been given her Miranda rights
11:15
Speaker 1: since she understood them. Speaking of problems potential legal problems
11:20
Speaker 1: with Caitlin Armstrong's statement, take a listen to our friends
11:25
Speaker 1: at Fox seven and KVUE. Armstrong's attorneys are asking a
11:30
Speaker 1: judge to throw out some evidence in this case. They
11:32
Speaker 1: say that police lied and violated Armstrong's rights. A pre
11:37
Speaker 1: trial hearing in the Caitlyn Armstrong case coming to a
11:40
Speaker 1: closed Monday. Armstrong's attorneys are asking Travis County Judge Brenda
11:44
Speaker 1: Kennedy to toss evidence in the case, arguing that an
11:47
Speaker 1: interview Austin Police detective Katie Connor had with Armstrong on
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Speaker 1: May twelfth was an illegal interrogation. Armstrong was never read
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Speaker 1: her miranda rights and repeatedly asked for an attorney and
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Speaker 1: to leave the room. The state points out that Connor
12:02
Speaker 1: told Armstrong several times that she was free to leave,
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Speaker 1: and this was a pre trial motion where the defense
12:09
Speaker 1: has filed two motions to suppress evidence before the trial begins.
12:14
Speaker 1: And an Austin detective took the stand to answer questions
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Speaker 1: about an interview police had with Armstrong days before she
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Speaker 1: left the US. The lead homicide detective in the Moe
12:24
Speaker 1: Wilson case was also asked questions, mostly from the defense.
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Speaker 1: A number of videos were shown today in the courtroom,
12:30
Speaker 1: including the interview with the detective who interviewed Armstrong. They
12:34
Speaker 1: also went over the arrest Affidavid. It's still unclear what
12:37
Speaker 1: exact evidence the defense is looking to suppress. Well, I
12:41
Speaker 1: can tell you that right now they want her statements suppressed.
12:45
Speaker 1: That's what they're talking about. It's not unclear, it's very clear.
13:01
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace Dave Matt Crime online dot
13:08
Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter. On several occasions, detectives told her she
13:15
Speaker 1: was free to leave. Is that true? Absolutely true? Five
13:18
Speaker 1: different times they told her she was free to leave?
13:22
Speaker 1: And what about Miranda? Do we know if they gave
13:26
Speaker 1: her her Miranda rights? I find it very difficult to
13:28
Speaker 1: believe that they did not. They did not. Apparently No,
13:31
Speaker 1: this is I haven't actually seen the entire video of
13:35
Speaker 1: what they're talking about, Nancy, but for all intents and purposes,
13:40
Speaker 1: they did not Miranda as her at all. Okay, that's
13:43
Speaker 1: going to be a problem if they very often you
13:46
Speaker 1: will see them give the suspect a piece of paper
13:50
Speaker 1: with the Miranda rights written on it, and the suspect
13:53
Speaker 1: will sign them. But I've got to tell you, if
13:56
Speaker 1: there are no Miranda rights, there is a plum. That's
14:01
Speaker 1: the biggest problem. I say, jump in so, Nancy, yeah,
14:04
Speaker 1: you know that is we're talking about fundamental constitutional rights.
14:08
Speaker 1: If she is in a custodial interrogation, which means she's
14:13
Speaker 1: not free to leave, and there's a question about that,
14:15
Speaker 1: I understand, But if she's in a custodial interrogation in
14:19
Speaker 1: which she's asked to leave or asked to speak to
14:21
Speaker 1: an attorney, and she's never been mirandais you know the
14:25
Speaker 1: landmark case Miranda versus Arizona. You have the right to
14:29
Speaker 1: remain silent, you have the right to have counsel, and
14:31
Speaker 1: anything you say can be used against you. If she
14:34
Speaker 1: wasn't given those Miranda rights, and as you pointed out,
14:37
Speaker 1: typically there's a written waiver in every case where someone
14:41
Speaker 1: signs off saying they understand those rights. If that wasn't
14:44
Speaker 1: done here, they're going to have a very difficult time
14:47
Speaker 1: keeping any statement that she made in this case for trial.
14:51
Speaker 1: You're absolutely correct, and I do not like admitting it.
14:55
Speaker 1: But if there's no Miranda, there's no statement, then the
14:58
Speaker 1: state has to figure out approved the case without her statement.
15:03
Speaker 1: Maybe they can, maybe they can't. Seems like they've got
15:06
Speaker 1: a lot of other hard evidence proving that she's the killer.
15:09
Speaker 1: But do they We don't know everything that they've got.
15:13
Speaker 1: Now take a listen to our friends at GMA. Attorneys
15:16
Speaker 1: for Caitlin Armstrong say these newly released images from her
15:19
Speaker 1: interrogation were part of any legal arrest and that they
15:23
Speaker 1: raised serious concerns about the case. The photo is part
15:27
Speaker 1: of newly filed court documents trying to suppress evidence and
15:30
Speaker 1: obtained by ABC News. Armstrong's attorneys alleged that one day
15:34
Speaker 1: after pro cyclist Mariah Wilson was found murdered in May,
15:38
Speaker 1: the detective on the case took Armstrong into custody with
15:42
Speaker 1: an illegal arrest warrant and constructed any illegal interrogation, claiming
15:47
Speaker 1: they'd brought her in on a twenty eighteen charge for
15:49
Speaker 1: allegedly failing to pay for botox, but then asked her
15:53
Speaker 1: about Wilson's murder. The reality is, though, Matthew Mangina, you
15:57
Speaker 1: can be brought in rightfully, legally on an outstanding warrant,
16:01
Speaker 1: and you can be questioned about another incident. Well, yeah,
16:04
Speaker 1: there's no question about that. You can be brought in
16:07
Speaker 1: on a valid warrant, or even if you believe that
16:10
Speaker 1: the valid warrant and it's not, you can still be
16:12
Speaker 1: brought in and you can be questioned. But once you
16:16
Speaker 1: get into that point where you're interrogating somebody and they're
16:20
Speaker 1: not free to leave or they've asked for an attorney,
16:25
Speaker 1: you need to make sure that they understand their miranda
16:28
Speaker 1: rates before you do any further questioning, Well, there's no
16:31
Speaker 1: question they did not give Miranda right because apparently Officer
16:36
Speaker 1: Connor was in the process of starting Miranda then took
16:41
Speaker 1: a call or went out of the room to speak
16:43
Speaker 1: to someone can make it and never did it. That's
16:46
Speaker 1: going to be a major, major problem. But I'm more
16:49
Speaker 1: to beyond that. In my mind, that interview has been
16:52
Speaker 1: ruled out. That's not coming in because Miranda was not
16:55
Speaker 1: given unless there was a waiver, a written way that
16:58
Speaker 1: she signed with Miranda on it, and she signs it. Yes,
17:01
Speaker 1: I read it and I understand it. It's the only
17:03
Speaker 1: way that that statement's going to be saved. I'm on
17:06
Speaker 1: to the next step. The only thing I would say, Nancy,
17:09
Speaker 1: you know, and I think that the state is going
17:11
Speaker 1: to try to prove that she was free to leave,
17:13
Speaker 1: so she was not in custody. And if you're not
17:17
Speaker 1: in custody, that's essential. You have to be in custody. Again,
17:20
Speaker 1: I'm past that the statement's out. It's not coming in.
17:25
Speaker 1: It's not coming in because they didn't give her Miranda.
17:28
Speaker 1: They screwed up, and I'm putting it very mildly. They
17:33
Speaker 1: screwed up. They didn't give a murder suspect her Miranda rights.
17:38
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just they might as well not even
17:40
Speaker 1: argue it. It's over next Now, can we prove the
17:43
Speaker 1: case without that statement? And I would submit that hub
17:48
Speaker 1: l y E s they can. But now wait a minute,
17:52
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, let's go forward to our cut one
17:56
Speaker 1: O four our friends at News Nation listen. Austin police
18:01
Speaker 1: filing a search warrant and discovered what's believed to be
18:04
Speaker 1: the email address used by suspected murderer Caitlin Armstrong following
18:09
Speaker 1: the shooting death of professional cyclist Mariah Wilson and police
18:14
Speaker 1: a Wilson had previously dated Armstrong's boyfriend, who helped police
18:19
Speaker 1: in the investigation and is not considered a suspect. Investigators
18:23
Speaker 1: say this newly discovered email account was used while Armstrong
18:26
Speaker 1: was fleeing Austin, Texas. So I think the biggest thing
18:30
Speaker 1: that's going to come out of this digital search warrant
18:33
Speaker 1: which they got is really premeditation. Is what she did
18:37
Speaker 1: reactionary to her killing Mariah Wilson? Or did she have
18:42
Speaker 1: a plan in place in the days for weeks prior
18:44
Speaker 1: to killing her. I think that's the biggest thing that
18:47
Speaker 1: they're trying to establish with this. I think Strickland is
18:51
Speaker 1: an interesting spot. I'm not certain that I think he
18:54
Speaker 1: played a direct role in the death of Mo Wilson.
18:57
Speaker 1: I think that that's more going to fall on her sister,
19:01
Speaker 1: Christine Armstrong. Okay, do I smell the word conspiracy? Is
19:10
Speaker 1: somebody claiming that the boyfriend Colin Strickland or Kaitlin I
19:17
Speaker 1: was strong sister aided and embedded, embedded before during, or
19:22
Speaker 1: after the murtyr hold on, wait for it. Take a
19:27
Speaker 1: listen to Tracy Wald or former CIA from our friends
19:32
Speaker 1: in News Nation. I think what's going to go into
19:35
Speaker 1: place is what did he know and did he try
19:39
Speaker 1: to cover it up? For example, when he found out,
19:42
Speaker 1: you know, the police had confiscated her phone and he
19:44
Speaker 1: provided her with a new one. What did he know
19:47
Speaker 1: and when did he know it? About when she was
19:49
Speaker 1: making purchases at Walmart to buy the burner phone or
19:54
Speaker 1: the prepaid debit cars. And I think that's what's going
19:56
Speaker 1: to be important there. I really do not think that
20:00
Speaker 1: he played a role in the murder itself. I think
20:02
Speaker 1: what it's going to come down to you is what
20:04
Speaker 1: did he what role of any did he play in
20:06
Speaker 1: sort of covering it up and helping her escape. I
20:09
Speaker 1: do not think that he is going to face charges,
20:11
Speaker 1: and I do think he will get some kind of
20:12
Speaker 1: a deal. Well, to get a deal, you have to
20:16
Speaker 1: have a charge. Why would you have a deal with
20:18
Speaker 1: the state if there's not a charge. I'm not running
20:22
Speaker 1: down to the DA's office and say, hey, I want
20:24
Speaker 1: straight probation and I'm going to tell you everything I
20:27
Speaker 1: know about X, Y and Z. I've got to be
20:29
Speaker 1: charged first before I cut a deal, which tells me
20:32
Speaker 1: they may have enough to charge him with aiding a fugitive.
20:37
Speaker 1: What about it? Dave mc joining me crime online dot
20:40
Speaker 1: Com talking about the alleged cheating boyfriend columns Strickland. He
20:45
Speaker 1: had a relationship, a romantic relationship with a world class
20:49
Speaker 1: cyclists Mo Wilson, Mariah Wilson. Then he goes back to
20:56
Speaker 1: his regular girlfriend, the yoga instruct term and he dallies.
21:02
Speaker 1: Let me say, when Mariah comes back in town. According
21:05
Speaker 1: to the state, Kaitlin Armstrong is incensed, stalks them all
21:10
Speaker 1: day into the evening, and finally guns Mariah down. So what,
21:15
Speaker 1: if anything, does the state believe the boyfriend Collins Strickland
21:20
Speaker 1: had to do with aiding and embedting his scorned girlfriend, Nancy.
21:25
Speaker 1: What we do know is what you just pointed out
21:28
Speaker 1: about the previous relationships and everything else. But you know,
21:31
Speaker 1: one thing that's not being pointed out is that Strickland
21:34
Speaker 1: actually has said that Armstrong was not a jealous type.
21:38
Speaker 1: Right but on his cell phone he had Moe Wilson's
21:43
Speaker 1: name changed to something else so that Armstrong wouldn't know
21:46
Speaker 1: they were communicating. He went out of his way to
21:51
Speaker 1: lie to Armstrong about who he was with when he
21:54
Speaker 1: was with Armstrong. Well, you know, I hate to tear
21:59
Speaker 1: up the liber of your universe, Dave mac, but he
22:03
Speaker 1: ain't the first Sheep boyfriend, and he probably is not
22:06
Speaker 1: going to be the last. It's probably about I don't know,
22:10
Speaker 1: what would you say, twenty thirty million guys cheap right
22:12
Speaker 1: now as we're talking, And it's not a felony, sadly,
22:17
Speaker 1: but I'm trying to point out that he is claiming
22:19
Speaker 1: that Armstrong was not the jealous type. He's gone out
22:22
Speaker 1: of his way to give those statements to police, but
22:25
Speaker 1: everything else indicates that yes, she was, or he wouldn't
22:28
Speaker 1: have been hiding it to such a degree. Now we
22:30
Speaker 1: know that leading up to it that he was hiding
22:33
Speaker 1: that he was out with her that night. But we
22:35
Speaker 1: also know, well we believe Armstrong actually had a way
22:38
Speaker 1: of tracking him using an app called Strava, so she
22:41
Speaker 1: knew where Colin Strickland was that evening and where he
22:45
Speaker 1: was down to the millimeter, you know, and that she
22:49
Speaker 1: was in fact using Strava to find everywhere that they went. Yes, okay,
22:54
Speaker 1: I've got another thing. What about it? Everybody jump in
22:57
Speaker 1: on this, especially you dotnor Sherry Schwartz for psychologists joining us.
23:02
Speaker 1: You can find her at panther medication dot com and
23:05
Speaker 1: she's the author of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and
23:09
Speaker 1: Psychology intersect. Take a listen to our cut sixty six.
23:18
Speaker 1: These are our friends at Fox seven A First look.
23:21
Speaker 1: It accused murderer Caitlin Armstrong and custody in Costa Rica
23:25
Speaker 1: after more than a month on the run. Her long
23:28
Speaker 1: golden hair now shoulder length, and she also died her
23:32
Speaker 1: hair to a darker brown color. Early in the case,
23:35
Speaker 1: Fox reported a Utah based investigator was looking at the
23:39
Speaker 1: possibility Armstrong was using the identity of her brunette New
23:43
Speaker 1: York based sister. Thirty four year old Armstrong flew into
23:46
Speaker 1: New York on May fourteenth, two days after being questioned
23:50
Speaker 1: about the murder of her romantic rival, professional cyclist Anna
23:54
Speaker 1: Mariah Wilson. Armstrong flew to Costa Rica from New Jersey
23:58
Speaker 1: four days after she landed in or using a fraudulent passport.
24:02
Speaker 1: Around that same time, Fox reported her sister registered for
24:05
Speaker 1: a New York state driver's license. At this time, marshals
24:09
Speaker 1: are not confirming that Armstrong used her sister's identity, only
24:13
Speaker 1: telling Fox seven Austin that fraud and passport was very
24:16
Speaker 1: particular her as far as physical descriptions that were closely matched.
24:20
Speaker 1: Not only that, take a less outcut sixty nine seven,
24:23
Speaker 1: Armstrong used a passport now the real identity of the
24:27
Speaker 1: person who had that passport, were told was somebody who
24:29
Speaker 1: closely physically resembled her. She continued using that alias well
24:34
Speaker 1: in Costa Rica, taking a bus going to yoga studios.
24:37
Speaker 1: This enabled authorities to establish a paper trail and eventually
24:41
Speaker 1: close in on her. After hiding out for more than
24:44
Speaker 1: a month, law enforcement found fugitive Caitlin Armstrong in a
24:48
Speaker 1: hostel on Costa Rica's Santa Teresa Beach, trying to build
24:52
Speaker 1: a new life. She was getting really ready to establish
24:56
Speaker 1: that next part of her career. Armstrong, a yoga instructor
24:59
Speaker 1: wanted for murdering her romantic rival professional cyclists Anna Mariah Wilson,
25:04
Speaker 1: in a fit of jealous rage, went to yoga studios
25:08
Speaker 1: on the island, signing in by hand at at least
25:11
Speaker 1: one studio using the same alias she used to travel
25:14
Speaker 1: to the country. This US Marshall's day was key. Once
25:18
Speaker 1: they developed that pattern, it really opened up things too.
25:23
Speaker 1: Daughter Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologist. You know, when a cop
25:26
Speaker 1: comes up behind me state patrol on the Interstate, I
25:30
Speaker 1: don't take off at ninety mph. I may slow down,
25:34
Speaker 1: I may tap my brakes a little bit. But my
25:37
Speaker 1: point is, if she didn't do it, then why did
25:40
Speaker 1: she go to such extremes to go on the run.
25:44
Speaker 1: First going to New York, changing her appearance and going
25:48
Speaker 1: to New York, hiding out in rural of state New York,
25:52
Speaker 1: leaving with her sister's passport, and hiding out under an
25:55
Speaker 1: assumed name in Costa Rica at a hostel, getting plastics
26:00
Speaker 1: urgery to change her face, changing the color of her hair,
26:05
Speaker 1: using a different name. Why would you do all that
26:07
Speaker 1: if you didn't do it exactly right. And this is
26:10
Speaker 1: the intersection of psychology and law when we're looking at
26:13
Speaker 1: seeing those kinds of factors that go to consciousness of guilt.
26:18
Speaker 1: And I'm no lawyer, but I believe that a jury
26:21
Speaker 1: can consider those things consciousness of guilt. Right, she took
26:25
Speaker 1: multiple flights, she went to she sold the car. Right,
26:30
Speaker 1: this is an evidence. Why do you sell your card,
26:33
Speaker 1: then you take multiple flights to go to your sister
26:35
Speaker 1: at some clandestine location to get her passport. This is
26:39
Speaker 1: all over the news that she's wanted and then she
26:43
Speaker 1: flees from the country and everything else that you mentioned.
26:46
Speaker 1: So I see you don't need a PhD in psychology
26:49
Speaker 1: to see that this is evidence of guilty. Mind. Oh
26:52
Speaker 1: god you Doctor Tim Gallagher joining US Medical Examiner for
26:55
Speaker 1: the entire state of Florida. You can find it at
26:58
Speaker 1: Pathcareman dot com. Lecturer University of Florida Medical School, and
27:03
Speaker 1: founder and host are the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference.
27:09
Speaker 1: Could you describe what twenty five year old Mariah Wilson
27:16
Speaker 1: lived through until she bled out cornered there on the
27:21
Speaker 1: bathroom floor of a friend's apartment. What did she go
27:25
Speaker 1: through after multiple shootings. Well, it's a horrifying experiences, as
27:31
Speaker 1: is obvious. But typically what happens is you don't feel
27:37
Speaker 1: the first bullet wound. You hear that, you hear the gun,
27:41
Speaker 1: you see the gun being aimed in your direction, and
27:44
Speaker 1: you see the explosion. You hear the explosion, but you
27:47
Speaker 1: don't feel the first bullet wound. It's very shocking. It
27:50
Speaker 1: takes a while for the body to react to that.
27:53
Speaker 1: When she received the second and third bullet wound. Now
27:56
Speaker 1: the body is reacting to the pain. It is extremely painful.
28:03
Speaker 1: But at the same time, the organs now are they're hemorrhaging,
28:08
Speaker 1: They're bleeding, They're bleeding inside. The lungs are filling up
28:12
Speaker 1: with blood, and you slowly develop difficulty breathing. All of
28:17
Speaker 1: a sudden, you cannot capture your breath. You start gasping
28:21
Speaker 1: for air, and your consciousness slowly slips away from you.
28:26
Speaker 1: You slip into un consciousness and eventually you will die
28:31
Speaker 1: several minutes later. I think that is why she went
28:35
Speaker 1: on the run because of what happened to Mariah. Crime
28:51
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace Dave mac Crime online dot Com
28:57
Speaker 1: investigative reporter Dave, please outline the evidence the state is
29:03
Speaker 1: amassing against Caitlin Armstrong. This is anything but a misogynistic
29:10
Speaker 1: case put together by a cabal of women haters. If
29:14
Speaker 1: anything is misogynistic, it's one woman gunning down another woman
29:20
Speaker 1: over a scorned lover. I just go ahead. We have
29:24
Speaker 1: the gun. We have the prospective gun. Actually, Colin Strickland
29:28
Speaker 1: bought two guns, one specifically for Caitlin Armstrong. They found
29:33
Speaker 1: that gun, and they found ammunition or the shellcasings rather
29:37
Speaker 1: at the scene that were consistent with the gun at
29:42
Speaker 1: that Armstrong was known to have. We have Armstrong's vehicle,
29:47
Speaker 1: the Gee Grand Cherokee, that was actually seen sixty seconds
29:52
Speaker 1: after Moe Wilson got home that evening. We have that
29:56
Speaker 1: vehicle right there at the property. We also have the
30:02
Speaker 1: evidence that she took off right away. You know, she's
30:05
Speaker 1: known to sell the vehicle on May thirteenth. Okay, we
30:09
Speaker 1: got the shooting May eleventh, May twoff, the police talk
30:11
Speaker 1: to her. May thirteenth, she sells the Grand Cherokee for
30:15
Speaker 1: twelveth grand to a dealership there in town. We also
30:18
Speaker 1: know that her boyfriend, Colin Strickland, had given her four
30:21
Speaker 1: and fifty thousand dollars as an investment into a business
30:24
Speaker 1: and had asked her to return that money. She didn't,
30:28
Speaker 1: so she still had that money plus the money from
30:30
Speaker 1: the car when she then goes on the run. We
30:34
Speaker 1: know that she of course went to Newark. We know
30:36
Speaker 1: that she met up with her sister out in the
30:38
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere. She then escapes using a different passport
30:43
Speaker 1: to go to Costa Rica, where she stayed there under
30:46
Speaker 1: different aliases. We know that she used Beth Martin, Martin
30:50
Speaker 1: and Airy Martin as different names along the way, so
30:54
Speaker 1: we know that we have her at the scene of
30:57
Speaker 1: the crime. We know she has a gun that matches
30:59
Speaker 1: the description with the shellcave things, and we see that
31:02
Speaker 1: she fled and went out of her way to really
31:05
Speaker 1: go off the grid. How did the whole thing start?
31:09
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at Fox seven our
31:11
Speaker 1: cut one. Police are investigating a suspicious death in East Auston.
31:16
Speaker 1: This happened on Maple Avenue near East seventeenth Street overnight.
31:19
Speaker 1: A woman called police saying she found her friend inside
31:22
Speaker 1: her house unresponsive and there was blood near her. When
31:25
Speaker 1: officers arrived, they found the victim had gunshot wounds. Avas
31:28
Speaker 1: provided life saving measures, but the woman later died from
31:31
Speaker 1: her injuries. Police do not know how long she was
31:34
Speaker 1: inside the home, but did call her death suspicious. It
31:37
Speaker 1: is unclear if a gun was found on see the
31:39
Speaker 1: gun was not found on saying it was found where
31:42
Speaker 1: the defendant, Kaitlin Armstrong, UGA teacher resided and more from
31:48
Speaker 1: Fox seven Our Cut two. So now we're learning the
31:51
Speaker 1: victim of a deadly shooting in East Auston earlier this
31:53
Speaker 1: week was a well known cyclist who was supposed to
31:56
Speaker 1: take part in a mountain bike race in the Hill
31:58
Speaker 1: Country today. Anna Wilson, better known by her middle name Mariah,
32:02
Speaker 1: was pronounced dead on Wednesday night at home on Maple
32:05
Speaker 1: Avenue near Eighteenth Street. Austin. Police were called there after
32:08
Speaker 1: a friend of Wilson's returned home to find the twenty
32:11
Speaker 1: five year old unconscious with gunshot wounds. APD has identified
32:15
Speaker 1: a person of interest and does not believe the shooting
32:18
Speaker 1: was random. They're urging anyone with information or video of
32:21
Speaker 1: what happened to give them a call now. According to
32:24
Speaker 1: the cycling magazine at Vello, Wilson was in Texas ahead
32:28
Speaker 1: of today's gravel locost Race and Hiko, where she was
32:31
Speaker 1: a favorite to win. Vello published a statement from her
32:35
Speaker 1: family saying she was quote always pushing tirelessly to reach
32:38
Speaker 1: her goals. We knew she was pursuing that which she loved,
32:42
Speaker 1: the family adding we know Mariah would want the event
32:45
Speaker 1: to carry on. Well, that's all well and good, But
32:49
Speaker 1: what allegedly led yoga instructor and a glamorous yoga instructor
32:55
Speaker 1: at that into a rage? A murderous rage. Take a
32:59
Speaker 1: listener for at crime online dot com and Our Cut twenty.
33:02
Speaker 1: Colin Strickland picked Anna Wilson up for their swim date
33:05
Speaker 1: on his motorcycle. The pair spent time at the City
33:08
Speaker 1: of Austin's Deep Betty Pool, then walked to Poolburger to eat. Afterwards,
33:13
Speaker 1: he drove Wilson back to her friends home, but didn't
33:16
Speaker 1: go inside. On the way home, Strickland stopped to text
33:19
Speaker 1: Armstrong at eight thirty six pm. His text message said, hey,
33:24
Speaker 1: are you out? Went to drop some flowers for Alison
33:27
Speaker 1: at her son's house up north and my phone died.
33:30
Speaker 1: Heading home unless you have another food suggestion, Strickland lied
33:34
Speaker 1: to his girlfriend. Strickland arrived home around eight forty three
33:37
Speaker 1: pm and sent Armstrong another text and headed to the
33:41
Speaker 1: garage to work on his bicycles to prepare for an
33:44
Speaker 1: upcoming race. He sent another text message to Armstrong at
33:47
Speaker 1: nine twenty one, and not long after, Armstrong arrived home
33:52
Speaker 1: driving a twenty twelve Jeep Grand Cherokee with a large
33:55
Speaker 1: bicycle rack mounted on the trailer hitch, a luggage rack
33:58
Speaker 1: mounted on the roof, and chrome around the windows. According
34:02
Speaker 1: to Strickland, Armstrong was the only person to drive that vehicle. Awie,
34:07
Speaker 1: that's got a hurt because, according to the defense attorney,
34:12
Speaker 1: that was not her car. So Jackie, could you please
34:17
Speaker 1: play the sound of the defense attorney we played earlier
34:20
Speaker 1: insisting this was not her car. The crux of law
34:24
Speaker 1: enforcement's theory yea from within the first twenty four hours
34:28
Speaker 1: of this case, they had decided that Kaitlin Armstrong is
34:33
Speaker 1: a crazy, jealous person who, in a fit of rage,
34:36
Speaker 1: murdered miss Wilson. The whole case against Kate Armstrong is
34:43
Speaker 1: predicated on a deeply misogynistic view of her. So this
34:51
Speaker 1: dark colored sut that's where the detective really wants to
34:55
Speaker 1: start to hang this horrible crime on Kaylen Armstrong. There's
35:00
Speaker 1: no evidence presented ever of a license plate on this
35:05
Speaker 1: vehicle of any description of an occupant of the vehicle. Okay,
35:11
Speaker 1: so let me understand this, Dave Mac. They are claiming
35:15
Speaker 1: that this was not Kaitlyn Armstrong driving the suv, that
35:20
Speaker 1: there was another person in a black suv just like hers,
35:25
Speaker 1: with a bike rack on top just like hers, and
35:28
Speaker 1: a luggage rack just like hers, and chrome around the
35:32
Speaker 1: windows just like hers, that went round and around and
35:36
Speaker 1: around her boyfriend's side interest, over and over and over.
35:45
Speaker 1: The boyfriend is accounting for we know where he is
35:48
Speaker 1: based on a cell phone, which he lied about. But
35:52
Speaker 1: is that right, Dave Mac. Yeah. And not only does
35:55
Speaker 1: he say you know that, he says the attorney says,
35:58
Speaker 1: you can't be in two places at once. It's simple maths.
36:02
Speaker 1: But then it's like, well, okay, then where was she
36:04
Speaker 1: If not in her vehicle at that time, where was she?
36:08
Speaker 1: And he said, well, I don't have to prove that,
36:10
Speaker 1: and don't I don't know what else you can do
36:12
Speaker 1: other than prove it if you're going to make that clean. Now,
36:14
Speaker 1: hold on, I'm wanting to take a listen to our
36:17
Speaker 1: cut eighteen. These are our friends at crime online dot Com.
36:22
Speaker 1: So not only according to the defense, is the murderer
36:27
Speaker 1: driving a dark colored suv just like Caitlin Armstrong's with
36:31
Speaker 1: the same bike rack, crime around the windows and luggage
36:35
Speaker 1: rack on the back exact same Listen to the behavior
36:39
Speaker 1: of the unknown assailant. Detectives turned to video as they
36:43
Speaker 1: discover a surveillance camera mounted on the exterior of a
36:47
Speaker 1: home nearby. The camera face the driveway next to Cash's home.
36:51
Speaker 1: The footage showed a dark colored suv drive past at
36:55
Speaker 1: eight thirty seven PM, that's one minute after Wilson entered
36:59
Speaker 1: cash home. The suv slowed down, appearing to come to
37:03
Speaker 1: a stop directly next to Cash's residence. The suv had
37:07
Speaker 1: a large bicycle rack mounted on the trailer hitch of
37:09
Speaker 1: the vehicle, a luggage rack mounted on the roof, and
37:12
Speaker 1: chrome around the windows. No other vehicles were seen on
37:16
Speaker 1: video surveillance until emergency vehicles arrived to doctor Sherry Schwartz.
37:21
Speaker 1: How angry do you believe Caitlin Armstrong was after she
37:26
Speaker 1: had been following her cheating boyfriend all around town as
37:30
Speaker 1: he was texting her all those lies about taking flowers,
37:33
Speaker 1: I guess to a sick friend up north wherever that
37:36
Speaker 1: may be. The whole time she's following him in the
37:40
Speaker 1: suv with Mariah in the car. That's the theory. Now,
37:44
Speaker 1: what other unknown assailant is going to come out right
37:47
Speaker 1: behind them and watch the boyfriend leave on his motorcycle
37:52
Speaker 1: and then continue to circle around and around. Who would
37:56
Speaker 1: that be the simmering the anger building on itself and
38:03
Speaker 1: erupting in murder. Who else would do that? What a
38:06
Speaker 1: known assailant? Doctor Sherry sworts Well, And this is the
38:09
Speaker 1: challenge I think for the defense and the defendant. There
38:13
Speaker 1: seems to be compelling evidence that a car that looks
38:18
Speaker 1: just like Caitlin Armstrong's that she later sold was in
38:22
Speaker 1: on seen around the time of the murder. But the
38:25
Speaker 1: thing is, I don't I've never seen this case from
38:30
Speaker 1: the beginning of it as this explosion of jealous rage.
38:34
Speaker 1: I think it's exactly what you said, Nancy, the stimmering rage.
38:38
Speaker 1: But there seems to be evidence of planning here, right.
38:42
Speaker 1: The stalking is predatory behavior, and then to be able
38:45
Speaker 1: to slip in and slip out of that residence. Whoever
38:50
Speaker 1: did this to kill this young woman and then get away?
38:54
Speaker 1: And then you know what the state alleges is that
38:57
Speaker 1: it's Caitlin Armstrong and she had several steps to get away.
39:01
Speaker 1: A pretty elaborate plan, is what it seems to me.
39:03
Speaker 1: That requires a bit of planning in cool mind. Well,
39:06
Speaker 1: it's not just the video surveillance. There have been many
39:09
Speaker 1: other cases where a car has been proven to be
39:12
Speaker 1: driven by the killer and who the killer is based
39:15
Speaker 1: on markings on the car. For instance, and Molly Tibbets,
39:19
Speaker 1: a young co ed out jogging who goes missing. Finally,
39:24
Speaker 1: ring doorbell cameras revealed a car in the vicinity where
39:28
Speaker 1: she would jog, going back and forth and back and forth.
39:30
Speaker 1: Couldn't get a tag blate, but got quote distinct markings.
39:34
Speaker 1: It was scrapes along the side of the car traced
39:36
Speaker 1: back to the killer. Patrick dentist Kendra Hatcher, her fiance's
39:43
Speaker 1: ex girlfriend, followed her all around town and used a
39:47
Speaker 1: friend's jeep to come and kill her, have her killed.
39:51
Speaker 1: The markings on the car without a tag number led
39:55
Speaker 1: to the car. The same thing is going to happen here.
39:58
Speaker 1: But aside from the car argument, what about intent? Now
40:03
Speaker 1: this is something created by Caitlin Armstrong herself. These words
40:07
Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut. Twenty two two days
40:11
Speaker 1: after Anna Wilson's murder. Police contacted one of Wilson's friends,
40:14
Speaker 1: who remains anonymous, to prevent being targeted by Armstrong. According
40:18
Speaker 1: to their friend, Armstrong discovered Wilson's phone number and contacted
40:22
Speaker 1: the cycles several times, warning her to stay away from Strickland. Ultimately,
40:27
Speaker 1: Wilson blocked Armstrong's phone number. Their friend tells police that
40:31
Speaker 1: Armstrong began following Wilson on Instagram, feeding into Armstrong's jealousy.
40:36
Speaker 1: Police say Colin Strickland had bragged on Wilson's talent on
40:40
Speaker 1: a bicycle and had told his girlfriend that training with
40:43
Speaker 1: Armstrong was holding him back because he was constantly having
40:46
Speaker 1: to stop and wait for Armstrong to catch up. Three
40:50
Speaker 1: days after the murder, police get an anonymous call. The
40:53
Speaker 1: caller tells police that Armstrong had discovered Strickland was having
40:57
Speaker 1: a romantic relationship with Wilson, and that Armstrong furious to
41:01
Speaker 1: the point that she said she wanted to kill Wilson.
41:05
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's coming into evidence. Okay, here's the word
41:08
Speaker 1: to this pretty good defense attorney for Caitlin Armstrong. You
41:13
Speaker 1: will get these statements suppressed. You will win the battle,
41:19
Speaker 1: But will you win the war? We wait as justice
41:24
Speaker 1: and foals Nancy Grace crime story, signing off goodbye friend,