Latest / Short Term Rental Problems and Solutions / How to Build The Best STR (1/2)
Transcript
- Jeremiah: This has really been a great conversation and instead of just cutting out all the best parts, I think you want to come back for next week's episode. In that conversation, we continue when we talk about what kind of numbers to use for underwriting, how much to expect for snow plowing, grass cutting. ⁓ Scott actually did meet with a builder when he was here last week. And so we go into that conversation and we talk about some of the site work and also some of the negotiation skills that you have. Jeremiah Noll: Admit it, you expected your guests and your contractors to act reasonably. Now you've realized it's not all sunshine and five star reviews. That means you're in the right place. Today, we're joined by Scott. He's been looking the Pocono Mountain marketplace for a good short-term rental and is leaning towards building a modular cabin. We're going to be discussing pricing, location, and a possible return on investment. That's because this is the community where we talk about the gross, the awkward, and the operational messes. Jeremiah: when you work with a property purchase. Jeremiah Noll: as well as the real strategies that help you keep going instead of taking the loss. Welcome to short-term rental problems and solutions. Let's get into today's question. Scott, welcome. Welcome on. I'm so glad you had the guts to come on and show your face. So many people send me emails and I completely appreciate the emails and I have plenty of them, but I was really looking forward to this interaction today. Scott: Thank you. Thanks, Jeremiah. Of course. Jeremiah: he does have a very real estate agent. ⁓ So I'm trying to just giving him some and techniques ⁓ that he can float over to his agent help him get the best deal on a property. Jeremiah Noll: So let's get started with your question, the purpose of the call. Scott: Yeah, so me and my partner, Joe, are in the process of looking for and considering a short-term rental, basically a property in the Poconos that we ⁓ use for our personal use maybe a couple weeks out of the year, but that's also a profitable short-term rental when we're not using it. And we kind of don't know the first thing about it. ⁓ And I reached out to you because I found you online and ⁓ You were so gracious as to kind of just give me some information and, ⁓ you know, just tell me what you know about it. Jeremiah Noll: So, why don't you ⁓ us about what your vision was ⁓ the beginning of that call? What are you ⁓ to build? Because ⁓ you looked at ⁓ all the properties that were listed on the market right now and you decided that something else looks like a good deal. Scott: Yeah, so I got this in my head because ⁓ my parents who are coming close to retirement, just like within the last couple of years, bought a place in Montana and it's been profitable for them. ⁓ It's a vacation home that they go to a couple times a year, they ski and they rent it out the rest of the year. ⁓ And so it kind of made me start to look into and think with my partner, what if we did something similar, but something you closer to us. So we're on the East Coast in Jersey and the Poconos are ⁓ two hours north of here. So I started looking at and just researching online, you know, ⁓ what types of places are good in the Poconos? Is the Poconos a good place? ⁓ And learned that it is a good place for a short-term rental market. There's a big, ⁓ just a big group of people coming from Jersey, from Pennsylvania, from New York, ⁓ just to find a place to stay for a weekend or a week. And so that's what got me into the idea of doing this. Yeah. Jeremiah Noll: Mm-hmm. Awesome. So that's a great starting point. ⁓ When we talk about the Poconos, it's like, hey, welcome to the land of HOAs, right? I'm sure you've noticed that every single building lot seems to be with neighbors. It seems to have HOA fees. And there's all these different rules and regulations, amenities that are included. Most people, ⁓ in my experience, most people want to purchase a property that's outside of an HOA. And it's not just for the financial reasons. It's also for the purpose of control. So like, you know, what I noticed for the most part is when you've got a property that's in a gated community, ⁓ that gate exercises unreasonable control over your short-term model business. They can control when people go in. can control ⁓ that you can't extend the stay without paying an additional registration fee. They'll levy fines. There's a community, Pocono Farms Country Club, and if they see a review, on your listing and that name wasn't on a registration, they send you a $200 fine and they send you $200 that you have to pay for the registration fee that you missed. They're going to make that assumption that that guest was just not registered. And you have to defend yourself and say, oh no, that's Ralph. We register in him as Raphael and his name on Airbnb is Ralph because that's what he likes to go by. This sort of stuff happens out here, Scott, and you'd be surprised, a lot of people really are, but not every HOA is like that. Some of them are super laid back. In fact, one of my favorites, Camelot Forest. Camelot Forest, there's no gates and there's no registration of guests and there's no registration fees and their HOA fees are quite reasonable. Not only that, they're really close to Wawa. And coming from Jersey, you know the value of being close to Wawa. So. Scott: Yes. Jeremiah Noll: ⁓ It's Wawa but also the fact that they're right next to a highway and there's other benefits to that. ⁓ Sometimes people really do want to be out in the middle of nowhere, but ⁓ HOAs, you don't really feel like you're in the middle of nowhere because there's all these other people around you. ⁓ So there's pros and cons to each. And the folks ⁓ who are looking ⁓ outside of HOAs, ⁓ there are some benefits of being inside one. And then to the folks who are looking exclusively inside HOAs like you might be Scott because it's pretty much all you find ⁓ You can still be successful in short-term metals without having a pool without having a lake access and without having you know a ton of other things Because they're still hiking there's still lakes that you can go to that are public access and You know how close you are to them makes a big difference but ⁓ Some areas for you to consider, because I know you had mentioned Towamensing Trails in our first conversation. Towamensing Trails is a very nice community. wonderful. I like it. ⁓ One big downside with them is that they're a little antiquated with their registration procedures. There's like PDFs ⁓ checks and cash involved, where other places will allow you to do it electronically with a credit card or, you know, they just make things a little easier for you as the operator. ⁓ But outside of Towamensing you had mentioned that you like Jim Thorpe and Jim Thorpe is a gorgeous town, you know? ⁓ And for anybody who's listening that's not with Jim Thorpe, it's like a little Swiss town, like from Germany, ⁓ like the Alps almost, because the mountains the valley and the ⁓ roads and the railroads and things like all go through. It's very quaint. ⁓ People up here sometimes call it Mayberry. So up on the mountaintop, the part of the Jim Thorpe that I would consider the Poconos. You've got another community that I would recommend called Bear Creek Lake. And that's a neighborhood. I just found a listing as I was getting ready for the call. It's a one acre property and they're looking for $75,000. It's kind of worth it for a flat one acre property in that community. But there's other pros and cons to consider. So, so that's one area to consider. Another area is like some of those great like I was recommending. So ⁓ you've got Camelot Forest, which doesn't exercise a whole lot of control over you, but you still have. access to a lake for your guests and a playground ⁓ and a dumpster area instead of trash at the curb. So when you're considering all these different HOAs, it's important to understand like what the process is like and the pros and cons for each one. Scott: Okay, thanks. Jeremiah Noll: So if today's episode sounds familiar, you're not alone. These are the challenges no one talks about when they sell the dream of easy passive income. but they're exactly the problems that make or break your operation. If you've got a situation you want to share or some questions like Scott, then please email me your question reach out if you'd be willing to come on the air like he did. ⁓ problem might be the next one that we break down and chances are you're going to help a lot of other hosts in the process too. If this episode helped you share it with another host who's in the trenches. That's how we make this industry better. I'd also love to see you follow us on TikTok at Galvanized Investments. But ⁓ those are all things that you can discuss with your agent. free to reach out to me as well ⁓ about your final couple of lots once you've narrowed down. ⁓ Another neighborhood to definitely consider is Emerald Lakes. ⁓ I found a lot people are very happy with Emerald Lakes. Generally, like 3 quarters of an acre or greater. So that gives people of a feeling of privacy. and Facebook and YouTube at Galvanized Management. Until next time, stay steady, keep learning, keep building something real. The other thing that's interesting about that part of Long Pond is that the geography is a lot more hilly. So it's easier to get that feeling of privacy when next house over is up a hill and you're like down a hill or like a stream behind you. ⁓ That happen nearly as much in like Locust Lake, which is also a good HOA, but it's a lot flatter, ⁓ you or Briar Crest woods or Towamensing Towamensing trails is very flat. Scott: This is Short-Term Rental Problems and Solutions. Jeremiah Noll: Thank you very much, Scott. Thanks for coming on. Scott: Thanks. Jeremiah Noll: I'm sure you've noticed. So tell me more about this builder. ⁓ You had mentioned a modular cabin ⁓ and I really wanna hear more about that. Scott: Yeah, so ⁓ the builder that we are interested in working with is called Signature Builders. They don't do site but they do build the full interior out and everything like that for you. ⁓ And ⁓ right now their prices pretty competitive ⁓ and the ⁓ pictures their brochure the pictures that they've shared with us are really nice. It's a lot of Amish builders ⁓ are a part of the organization. you can look them up on They have amazing reviews. They don't have a ton of reviews yet, but they're all amazing because I think they just do good work. So, I mean, ⁓ we really like a lot about them so far. Jeremiah Noll: That's awesome. Yeah, looking at their website as you're speaking and I see they've been doing a lot of sheds, garages, pool houses, horse barns, barn dominiums So the cabins, they have three options. One's a tiny home, a modular cabin, and then a custom cabin. And the modular is what you're talking about. And it looks like it would be really well suited to this area. This modular cabin... Scott: Yeah. Jeremiah Noll: it's like 1500 square feet. ⁓ It's got log siding. got knotty pine ⁓ boards on the inside. it looks like an authentic log cabin, but it comes ⁓ to the site modular. Scott: Yep. Yep. Jeremiah Noll: They call it the Cedar Ridge and it starts at $175,000. Scott: Yeah, so it's it starts at $175, I believe, and that's with no loft. So I think it's a little less than the square footage ⁓ that you mentioned, or I think it's $190 something with the loft. But that's all the things included. And that's a really, really good price per square foot. Now you still have the site development, which is separate, and you have to kind of find another company to do that. But ⁓ even when you kind of break it down, that's that that can be a really good price point. Jeremiah Noll: Yeah, and these photos look amazing. What you might find challenging is all the site work and coordinating and collaborating with all the different people when it comes to developing your land and the deadlines and the timelines and all those other things. Have you found anybody who can handle that whole project or do you feel like you might be doing it piecemeal? Scott: So we haven't yet. ⁓ I would like to potentially find a site development site prep company that can do the whole thing. But if we have to do it piecemeal, we might save money as well. ⁓ It's a bit daunting. My partner ⁓ works in ⁓ public transit planning, so he knows a little bit more about the infrastructure of these things. I don't know the first thing about it. ⁓ But yeah, I mean, we haven't found anything yet. Jeremiah Noll: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so ⁓ if anybody who's listening to this doesn't know what we're talking about with site work, why don't you mention a couple of those items? Scott: Yeah, so ⁓ in most of the ⁓ developments in the Poconos, you're going to need a well and a septic. Camelot Forest does have public sewer, which is nice, ⁓ but most of them you're going to need a well, you're going to need a septic, ⁓ you're going to need some leveling, some grading, you're going to need a foundation, you're going to need a driveway, you're going to need some clearing. So there's a lot that goes into site development and it can quickly get costly, because there's a lot of elements to it. Jeremiah Noll: So what are you estimating the cost of the site work is going to be? Scott: Well, it depends on whether you ask me or my partner. But if you ask me, think it can be upwards of up to $100,000. He is estimating maybe closer to 75. Jeremiah Noll: So if you take the cost of the cabin, $175,000, even adding on like sales tax at 6%, there might be some other charges for delivery, but the site work of the foundation, clearing, driveway, well, and then connecting all of those things, let's just say it adds up to 150. That's 50 % more than you're estimating. You're at 150 or 175, which is 325. I can tell you as a real estate broker, as a property manager, you're not going to find a house like what I just saw on this website for $325 that's already existing. You're going to have to build that. And if that's the sale price on this, all kit and caboodle, all involved, and then you have to furnish it and decorate it, ⁓ you're looking at a really good deal, in my opinion. And I would definitely move forward with that. So what kind of questions do you have for me that I can help with at this point? Scott: Yeah. So we did go by some of these places. So we went to the Poconos last weekend. When it comes to, let's say, Towamensing Mincing Trails and Camelot Forest, I know you've already kind of said what you think is, you know, the better one. I don't disagree. I, but when I read online and everything that I'm kind of looking at, when I ask AI, it keeps saying that Towamensing Mincing Trails is going to be a better investment and you're going to get like more activity. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if AI really knows. I just your thoughts. Jeremiah Noll: Well, I'm not as smart as AI. So I'll defer to Claude. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. ⁓ What I would say is if you're looking at a flat rectangular lot in either one, then you might want to choose Towamensing of Mansing trails. ⁓ There's a lot of things to consider. One is the township. So ⁓ Camelot Forest is in Tobyhanna township and Tobyhanna township has been turbulent. Scott: Yeah. Hahaha. Jeremiah Noll: to say the least in the last few years with their short-term rental ordinance. Whereas Penn Forest Township has been completely for short-term metals. So they've never tried to restrict it. They've never tried to stop it from happening. They just kind of put those like common sense guidelines into place. ⁓ They recognize that this is a very big part of their tax base and things like that. With that said, how Towamensing trails a while back, the homeowners passed a resolution, they couldn't do it this way legally, but they passed a resolution to cap short-term rental permits for the community at 10%, 10 % of their residential properties, and it was already at 14%. So that meant that they were only going to approve some people and there was an uproar. Now, the process that limits your risk, went into play and it was effective. Basically, their strength in numbers. So all the short-term model owners that were there and even some of that I sold property to that were still in the process of building got all up in arms, so to speak, and they went and they stopped it. They squashed it. So there was no more rule about 10 % being considered, but it is something that they tried to do and it did not go over well. ⁓ Another thing to consider is that Towamensing trails doesn't allow fire pits. Your guests cannot have a campfire. And that is, I think something that my guests really appreciate in the homes that I manage ⁓ outside of Towamensing is that they can have firewood, they can have a fire pit, they can roast s'mores. And in Towamensing the best I've seen is a propane fireplace or a propane fire pit that's on the deck. And that's just so bougie. It's not rustic. It doesn't fit the look of your rustic log house that you're going for. There's ways that you can get around that. ⁓ But it's something to definitely consider, you know, is that they're not allowing that. The other thing, Scott, is once you buy in there, you can run for the board. You can get on there and you can make some changes. And I'd really like to empower you to do that because I feel like their rule is unnecessarily restrictive. Every neighborhood has the same burn bans and they enforce it the same way Towamensing enforces their no burning allowed at all. So like if it was a temporary measure that was because of a burn ban, completely understand, but we're getting way off topic now. I want to bring it back to between those two neighborhoods. ⁓ There's a lot that they have in common, you know, ⁓ when it comes to Tobyhanna Township, they becoming they've been becoming less restrictive over time. Additionally, Tobyhanna Township doesn't do inspections. I'm not sure if that'll last forever, but when you renew your permit, they just wanna make sure that your listing is still the way it's supposed to be. Oh, and then another one is Tobyhanna Township forces you to put on your listing that the minimum age to rent is 25. So the people who are... 25 or 24 or less, like 18 to 24, that's a range that is almost expecting to not be allowed to rent. ⁓ And I think it's because there's a lot of homes that don't allow it. There's a lot of homeowners that are scared that there's going to be a party. So Tobyhanna Township will not allow you to do that, where Penn Forest Township doesn't seem to have any problem with it. And so you're going to have more flexibility with who you rent to, but... For me, if I was tossing a coin to decide, it would be like that close, you know, between one or the other. I'd actually probably make, if they're the same lot, I'd make an offer on both and see which seller is more negotiable and make a decision from that. So it's really kind of a toss up as far as that goes. but then it's also your own preferences too. So the lakes here are very cold. ⁓ if you love swimming in the summertime, ⁓ going to want. pool, something where you can see the bottom. Whereas, you know, the lakes, do have like water snakes, and they have turtles and they have fish, know, it's, it's muddy on the bottom. So they both have a lake, but Camelot Forest doesn't have a pool. You know, you've only get that in Towamensing ⁓ But because is such a large neighborhood, and they only have one pool, it does get a little crowded. Scott: Yeah. And Camelot Forest doesn't have a pool. ⁓ I don't believe, ⁓ which I'm fine with. mean, we we would likely have a hot tub. And to me, that serves as water you can get in. mean, we used to have a swim spa ⁓ at our house when we lived in Texas and we used it as a pool in the summer. You know, I mean, it's the same thing. It's just. Yeah, just or turn it off, right? Just have it just the jets going. Jeremiah Noll: No, they have a lake. Mm-hmm. Just put the temperature lower. Mm-hmm. Scott: And it's a little plunge pool at that point. So and on the lake, we'd mostly be kayaking and stuff like that, maybe get in it a little bit in the summer. yeah, mean, Camelot Forest for us was hands down the one we liked the most. I think it has more seclusion, it feels quieter, and that's what we want. ⁓ And it has a lot more evergreens. Jeremiah Noll: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Scott: ⁓ One thing ⁓ know about and it doesn't affect everyone, but about Camelot Forest that I found out after we saw the lot and I was looking is that according to their HOA, there's a 1600 square foot minimum build. So I called the HOA ⁓ and I talked to the realtor who's selling the lot. ⁓ Of course, neither of them could give me anything definitive. I was just kind of trying to feel them out to say like, because we're not going to build a 1600 square foot vacation home. I know that like, That one is 1500 something, but we're looking at something about a thousand square foot just for one or two couples. It's what we have the money to do probably. ⁓ And so I don't know if we'll be able to build on that unless we decide to go up and then go up in price. ⁓ You know, we consider requesting a variance, but that's all part of the process. Jeremiah Noll: Well, you could also find ways to add square footage so that your permits apply. ⁓ Like something that's really rare in this area is an actual sunroom. So think like, I don't know, glass ceiling, glass walls, glass everything. That would add finished square footage to your home. And if you do it in a way that feels rustic, that fits that log house quality, ⁓ then it could go over really stinking well. because it's so rare, you know? And then if you get that property It's very secluded too. So you put that dome of glass right out there ⁓ in the woods and people are gonna feel like safe but they can still watch bear and deer walk by. It's like being part of the yard without being in the yard. And it might add the hundred square feet that you're looking for. Now this is a significant cost. My brother used to build sunrooms for a company down in Bucks County, PA. And ⁓ back then they were like $20,000, but it would be a significant value add and so extremely rare. Most people, what they do is they put a regular roof with a couple of skylights and a few double hung windows around. And that keeps the cost down, but it's different. It's very different. If you were to do something like that, I feel like it would be, it would have its own return on investment, you know, where you'd have an ROI that's only a couple of years, but a property like that going up for sale would be 450 at the least, you know, between the cabin and the sunroom, Scott: Even at a thousand square foot one. Jeremiah Noll: Now qualifiers to it, right? ⁓ You got to have premium counters. You got to have air conditioning and few other things, ⁓ but, ⁓ with new construction, you're going to appraise a little higher. The generally go down a little bit after it's five, 10 years old. ⁓ but like ⁓ that would be, I think an amazing addition to make that, that cabin you're looking at. to be a 1600 square feet total. Because then you add in the loft and you add the other one and that would be what would make it worthwhile for the 1600 minimum. Now, if you do want to go with something smaller, like not finishing the loft, having a thousand square feet, then yeah, Towamensing trails all the way. I think they're a good neighborhood. think they don't have much, I don't know, like the woods feel so... thin there. Like there's not a lot of brush, it doesn't really grow up a whole lot. ⁓ So there's not as much privacy. But when you're building a house, already thinking about landscaping, you can build in some rhododendron, you bring in some evergreens, you can get a little more privacy in there. Scott: That's true. Jeremiah Noll: but it does sound like you wanna do something a little bit smaller and Towamensing trails would be a really good spot for something like that. Have you thought much about your guest avatar? Scott: Not really. ⁓ I mean, what do you think the secret to success is for getting people to rent our place and figuring out who is going to do that? Jeremiah Noll: Absolutely. don't just want to copy what everybody else is doing. ⁓ some that think most people operating in the Poconos would agree ⁓ is there's an oversupply of three bed, two bath, chalets and, and ranch houses. ⁓ I don't think there's many guests that come here looking for flat ceilings. I don't think there's many guests that come here looking for something that still looks like it was built in the 80s. They're looking for something unique, something that's Instagrammable. And I think those are in high demand. I think you stayed at an A-frame recently. Those A-frames have this like classic Swiss appeal. They've got this look like they're right out of the mountains and people are still looking for that. The style is timeless. So. What I tell my clients when they're purchasing is either go really big or really small. ⁓ And the really big is pretty self-explanatory, right? Build up your budget, million dollars, put down 200K and ⁓ get one of these massive mansions as chalets and seven bedrooms that's going into Towamensing There's a whole bunch of them and they're doing really well. They're making like 150 to $250,000 a year. Those are one secret to success right there because there's obviously a demand for them and they're doing really well. The second one though is go really small. And so like the home that I'm in right now is my A-frame. I bought this in 2020, renovated it. I put Amish furniture in it, ⁓ and our guests love this place. I'm actually working on getting a new hot tub this week because the one that's there doesn't really fit the vibe of the house. ⁓ But like, this is a romantic getaway. ⁓ On Airbnb, put the max number of guests at We have one bathroom, it becomes uncomfortable for two couples to share one bath. ⁓ So like going with something really small can be extremely in my experience and in my opinion. ⁓ So ⁓ like, ⁓ find what your ideal guest is and I think a lot of people are going for, really want to host small families, ⁓ that's the sector in my opinion, that's a little ⁓ oversaturated. It's ⁓ three bedroom, bath going for ⁓ small families. ⁓ The other one is decor. think that too many people are decorating with just bears. ⁓ are great they're really cool and they're and don't see them all the time out here and there's something to fear, right? But when all of your decorations are just bears, bears, bears, bears, you're just blending in with everybody else who's bears, right? Choose chipmunks, choose fox, choose a deer. Very few people actually go with deer and I don't get it. What's so special about the bear, right? Scott: Yeah. I feel like our avatar, but I don't know, you tell me if this is a good avatar to have, ⁓ is kind of either a couple, right? So we're talking about building a small place. That's really our goal. ⁓ Or even two couples. And we might figure out a way to wedge in an extra small full bath so that two couples, I mean, we just went with two of our friends. They're an adult couple as well. We did have one bath and. it was only two nights. More than that, it would be kind of a strain. And ⁓ again, it's that A-frame. ⁓ It was all black on the outside. It very sleek. It was very Scandinavian and modern. And it was really it was really cute. And I did ask the host afterwards. Jeremiah Noll: Mm-hmm. Scott: ⁓ We gave him a great review because it was a great place. I said, how's it doing? Like, asked him a bunch of questions. I was like, the least he can do is tell me no, stop asking me questions. But he was really nice. And he said, you know, that their builder was great Pocono ⁓ he said, was the builder. Now, ⁓ nothing against them, ⁓ but I don't know them. Jeremiah Noll: Mm-hmm. Scott: but they are out of our price range. He said it was about 400,000 all in, which is not again, a bad price. And I'm sure it would sell for at least that because it's really cute, but ⁓ it was probably about a thousand square feet. ⁓ but then I asked, know, did you make, are you making a return on your investment? Are you seeing success? And he's like, we're getting high occupancy rates. So I know that probably couples are what's staying there. There's, I mean, they had, Jeremiah Noll: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Scott: They had some games, like some board games, like on a little shelf up in the nook. But other than that, it was clearly not designed for kids as much. And they said they were getting consistent bookings. So do you think that's a good avatar? And what do you think we could earn doing that kind of model? Jeremiah Noll: I think it's a great avatar. And I don't think that there's a lot of cabins that are made for just like two adult couples. So when you really dive into your avatar, start thinking about ⁓ what would make their ideal Pocono vacation, Pocono stay right? ⁓ what are some things that they're going to be doing? How do you get close to those things? Right? If they're going to hike down Hawk Falls in the Hickory Run State Park, ⁓ they're going to go visit Jim Thorpe, if they're going to ⁓ the train, I don't know, that's probably more for families, but if they're going to enjoy some of the nightlife of Lake Harmony with the bars that are a Shenanigans and it gets us up until 2 a.m., right? If they're going to be doing some of these things, you want to think about how do I get close to these things? How do I advertise these things? If I'm going to get guests that are into this sort of thing where it's a couple of couples, they're social, then I'm going to decide on furniture on a living room layout, on the kitchen table layout. I'm gonna decide on all of these things in order to be the ideal stay for those guests. My hot tub's gonna be sized well for four people, which means I don't need an eight person hot tub. I can get something that's a little smaller. And there's a lot of reasons for smaller. One is it takes less water when you have to refill it. It's a little less difficult to maintain it. It's less water that you have to keep hot. You can probably get a better quality, more priced inside your budget for a smaller hot tub. ⁓ for this house, I was looking at hot tubs that fit two people. Now, if I was trying to attract two couples to come here at a time, I would be only looking at four or more, right? But I wouldn't be considering that too. But the two-person hot tub has like 150 gallons in it. So if I need to empty the water and refill it, I can do that real fast. So there's absolutely no benefit to me going with a hot tub compared to the two, ⁓ know? It also just makes it a little more cozy, a little more, I want to say warm, but it's a hot tub, right? But hyper focusing in on that avatar is what's really going to make that house successful in my experience. So if I was starting this building process from scratch, I might have the maybe a little bit wider, or I might set up the rooms a little bit differently so that you have a bathroom in each one. You don't need a common bath. Scott: Hahaha. Jeremiah Noll: they can each have their own like en suite bath. ⁓ In that layout, you would probably stagger them and put them where the closets would be, like between the bedrooms in the back. Or you'd make those bedrooms a little bit bigger, maybe longer, something like that, right? That way you can fit those bathrooms in there and it doesn't feel too cramped. Scott: Yeah. Jeremiah Noll: ⁓ so I might do something like that when it comes to the loft area or the living room, I'd make sure that I have maybe two couches facing one another to enhance that conversation. ⁓ if they're all watching a TV, then you have to think about the layout. The size of the TV is going to be impacted by the number of people staying there. How far those, those, those couches are from the TV, things like that. So this would impact even. like the style of the kitchen. I'd probably want an island where I could put a couple of bar stools. Because when you talk about two couples being there, it's, they can be together in the kitchen, but there needs to be space for them to relax and be in the kitchen. You don't want four people cooking all at the same time. That's too many cooks in the kitchen. You want to have those people just as bystanders talking, know, interacting, helping. So I would probably take that L shaped kitchen and put an island in there ⁓ with a couple of maybe three stools. ⁓ Because again, you're going four people. And then when it comes the fire pit, putting four Adirondack chairs ⁓ or ⁓ two porch swings are hanging from some sort of ⁓ an apparatus to hold them ⁓ But that's also expecting that you have a fire pit. And if you buy Intel Towaminsing you're not going to have one of those. ⁓ But you get it, right? So it's hyper focusing in on the guests that you're trying to attract and then making it something that they're really going to want. And that is a lot easier at this point, before you design the house, before you have them start construction. Whereas if you were looking to buy a house, every one that you walk through, you're thinking, would this fit my avatar well? And some of them, the answer is no. Some of these cute little chalets that are $250,000 are just not. They're not made for that. ⁓ a really unique spot for you to be in to where you can really hyper focus down ⁓ what's going to make you successful. Scott: Yeah, so, Jeremiah, what do you think that I can earn with a place like this? Like, we just don't know what to expect. Jeremiah Noll: Yes, absolutely. There's a couple of ways that you can research this.