Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Jodi Arias kills lover, defense lawyer Kirk Nurmi speaks out & Navy vet murders teen girl, Ashanti Billie

Transcript

Jodi Arias kills lover, defense lawyer Kirk Nurmi speaks out & Navy vet murders teen girl, Ashanti Billie · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph
0:08
Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two, Joey Arius was on trial for
0:12
Speaker 1: the brutal murder of her boyfriend Travis Alexander. The defendant,
0:15
Speaker 1: Shelby Incursory to the Department of Corrections, where the rest
0:17
Speaker 1: of her natural life with no possibility of girl. She
0:20
Speaker 1: was found guilty, but sentenced to life in prison instead
0:23
Speaker 1: of the death penalty. That trial and what came after
0:25
Speaker 1: it changed Kurt Nermie. Nermie was the face of her defense,
0:28
Speaker 1: vilified online. When I was done with the Arias trial,
0:32
Speaker 1: I had serious questions about whether or not I wanted
0:34
Speaker 1: to practice log and then he was diagnosed with cancer.
0:37
Speaker 1: When cancer entered my life and I began to contemplate
0:40
Speaker 1: my mortality, it became important to me to defend myself,
0:44
Speaker 1: and I feel that that's what I did. In my book.
0:46
Speaker 1: The book Trapped with Miss Arius was a tell all.
0:49
Speaker 1: Nermie wrote about what it was like to deal with
0:50
Speaker 1: Arius as a client, her demands, and he wrote the
0:53
Speaker 1: lies that she and her family were willing to tell.
0:56
Speaker 1: She loved him, she loved him to death. I'm talking
1:05
Speaker 1: about none other than Jodi Arius and her lover turned
1:13
Speaker 1: murder victim Travis Alexander. I still to this day have
1:18
Speaker 1: the button that Travis Alexander's family would wear the court
1:24
Speaker 1: every day or try to that they gave me. But
1:30
Speaker 1: it's not over yet, believe it or not. Even after
1:36
Speaker 1: Jodi aris is convicted of murdering her lover, stabbing him
1:42
Speaker 1: twenty six times, leaving his dead body slumped over in
1:46
Speaker 1: the shower, shooting him in the head. I remember the
1:51
Speaker 1: shocking scenario that was proven by physical evidence unrefuted that
1:57
Speaker 1: he was standing at his bathroom mirror her and blood
2:01
Speaker 1: was dripping down and he saw himself dying. I remember
2:08
Speaker 1: it like it was yesterday. For me, it's a memory.
2:11
Speaker 1: For his family, it's never ending pain. I'm Nancy Grace.
2:17
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories, and joining me a very special guest,
2:22
Speaker 1: Kirk Nurmi, Jodi Arias's lawyer at trial who tried to
2:29
Speaker 1: save her. But right now he's ready to take on
2:35
Speaker 1: Jodi Arias, convicted killer and an explosive court battle. But
2:41
Speaker 1: why also with me high profile l A psycho analyst
2:45
Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall and of course Alan Duke joining me
2:50
Speaker 1: from l A as well. Straight out to Kirk Nurmi
2:54
Speaker 1: Kirk Nrmie. I watched you every single day of the trial.
2:59
Speaker 1: Every day I will wonder what trick is he gonna
3:01
Speaker 1: pull out of his sleeve now? And I would watch
3:04
Speaker 1: your face when Arius would do one thing after the next,
3:08
Speaker 1: like giving jailhouse interviews which would turn into fodder for
3:13
Speaker 1: a potential jury pool to see. And it was just
3:15
Speaker 1: one thing after the next, after the shooting a bird
3:18
Speaker 1: at me during court, just just one antic after the next.
3:25
Speaker 1: As if you didn't already have enough to deal with,
3:28
Speaker 1: explain to me your current lawsuit. Well, Nancy, Uh, you know,
3:34
Speaker 1: as is miss Arius's habit when men in her life
3:39
Speaker 1: scorn her, and ultimately, to her thinking, we all scorn her.
3:42
Speaker 1: She lashes out, and UM, it is not surprising to
3:47
Speaker 1: me then, uh, that miss Arius is choosing to sue me,
3:52
Speaker 1: claiming that I breached our confidentiality. That uh, to my thinking,
3:57
Speaker 1: she waved by the numerous interviews she gave, the numerous
4:00
Speaker 1: public silings that she offered to the world. Uh. And
4:05
Speaker 1: I write my book about how in April two thousand eleven,
4:10
Speaker 1: rather uh, that she made some threats to me to
4:13
Speaker 1: follow her dictates or she would do what she could
4:16
Speaker 1: to ruin my career, and this is merely evidence of that.
4:21
Speaker 1: To slander my name a minute, Why would she why
4:24
Speaker 1: would she kirtn hermy want to ruin your career? You
4:27
Speaker 1: try to save her at trial. Well, the thing is, though,
4:31
Speaker 1: and that's ultimately a question for her and maybe for
4:34
Speaker 1: for Bethany to analyze miss Arius. But um, keep in mind, uh,
4:40
Speaker 1: miss Arius is in prison for life, and she's probably
4:42
Speaker 1: not happy about that despite her the conduct that landed
4:46
Speaker 1: her there. Joining me right now. Alexis terrez Chuck, investigative
4:50
Speaker 1: reporter and journalists for Writer online dot com. Alexis, you
4:53
Speaker 1: and I covered the area's murder trial together, as well
4:56
Speaker 1: as the death penalty phase. For those who don't no
5:00
Speaker 1: about Jodi Arius and her murder conviction, please explain what
5:05
Speaker 1: happened to Travis Alexander when he tried to break up
5:09
Speaker 1: with her, She plotted his murder, lured him in, you know,
5:14
Speaker 1: went down to his house in Arizona, but but he
5:17
Speaker 1: took her four days to get there. She stopped along
5:19
Speaker 1: the way to buy a bunch of things she was
5:22
Speaker 1: going to use, where she ended up slaughtering him. She
5:25
Speaker 1: attacked him while he was in the shaite a minute, though, Alexis,
5:28
Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, you're skipping some good stuff. Because
5:32
Speaker 1: when she travels, you know, I don't know how many
5:36
Speaker 1: hundreds of miles to go murder him. She did not
5:39
Speaker 1: want to leave a trail, so she filled up gas cans,
5:43
Speaker 1: according to the prosecution, and put them in her trunk
5:47
Speaker 1: so she would not have to stop and be spotted
5:50
Speaker 1: on gas station surveillance video. She would not have to
5:52
Speaker 1: use a credit card, there would be no trace left behind.
5:58
Speaker 1: So she filled up gyas hands stuck him in her
6:01
Speaker 1: car so she would not be spotted en route on
6:05
Speaker 1: this you know, hundreds and hundreds of miles trip to
6:07
Speaker 1: get to Travis Alexander. Now, I don't recall that he
6:12
Speaker 1: knew she was coming. What happened, Alexis, She showed up
6:17
Speaker 1: at his house in the middle of the night, about
6:20
Speaker 1: four o'clock in the morning. They'd had a couple of
6:22
Speaker 1: phone calls. She had called him repeatedly, but once she
6:28
Speaker 1: entered the area near his house, she turned off her
6:32
Speaker 1: phone and did not turn it back on until hours
6:36
Speaker 1: after she murdered him. To hide the fact that she
6:39
Speaker 1: was even at his house. She was very devious. She
6:43
Speaker 1: knew exactly what to do. She to try to cover
6:45
Speaker 1: her trap, so she goes into the home and Kirt Nermie,
6:49
Speaker 1: I'm not asking you fact questions because you may be
6:54
Speaker 1: uncomfortable asked answering them with me. Is Kurt Nermi, Jodi
6:58
Speaker 1: Arias's trial lawyer. He is the author of a book.
7:03
Speaker 1: It's a pretty incredible book, Trapped with miss Arius. She
7:08
Speaker 1: seemingly has taken umbrage with many passages within his book,
7:13
Speaker 1: Trapped with Ms Arius in the lawsuit, In her lawsuit,
7:19
Speaker 1: Kirk her lawsuit, Jodi Arius is suing somebody. Well, I
7:26
Speaker 1: don't understand exactly the reason she is suing. Could you
7:30
Speaker 1: break it down and regular people talk and tell me?
7:34
Speaker 1: Kurt Nermi, Well, like I say, you know, that's ultimately
7:38
Speaker 1: a question for her. But but vengeance against men who
7:41
Speaker 1: do Jody wrong is something that is again, um quite common,
7:46
Speaker 1: quite consistent with her pattern. And it's not surprising to
7:50
Speaker 1: me that she is attacking me now, blaming me in
7:54
Speaker 1: essence for her conviction and her the fact that she's
7:58
Speaker 1: spending life in prison. That's to me what this is about.
8:02
Speaker 1: To Dr Bethany Marshall, psycho Alan is joining me out
8:06
Speaker 1: of l A. Dr Bethany, I went to jodi Arius prison.
8:12
Speaker 1: I saw where she was held. I talked to the
8:16
Speaker 1: female inmates. I ate the veggie loaf, the mystery meat loaf.
8:23
Speaker 1: It wasn't mad by the way, Um to try to
8:27
Speaker 1: understand more about jodi Arius, because when you look at her, Bethany,
8:35
Speaker 1: many people believe she's beautiful. I don't because I look
8:39
Speaker 1: at her and I see a killer, and I mean,
8:43
Speaker 1: that's the number one commandment, thou shall not kill. But
8:47
Speaker 1: behind bar she's somewhat of a celebrity. She gets hundreds
8:51
Speaker 1: of love letters. People put money in her commissary account.
8:55
Speaker 1: She quote draws in quote in other words, traces other
9:00
Speaker 1: drawings and then sells them. It's quite the life, Quite
9:06
Speaker 1: the life. Dr Bethid explained, how is she still manipulity
9:09
Speaker 1: when she's more highly manipulative. You know, I was thinking
9:12
Speaker 1: about borderline personality disorder as you were talking to Kirk
9:16
Speaker 1: and Alexis. She definitely has borderline personality disorder and I
9:21
Speaker 1: actually was looking it up in the d s M five,
9:23
Speaker 1: which is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of mental disorders,
9:27
Speaker 1: and one of the characteristics is intense, unstable and conflicted
9:32
Speaker 1: close relationships marked by mistrust, neediness, and anxious preoccupation with
9:38
Speaker 1: real or imagined abandonment. Close relationships often viewed in extremes
9:44
Speaker 1: of idealization and devaluation, alternating between overinvolvement and withdrawal. And
9:51
Speaker 1: I can see that in her relationship with Travis Alexander,
9:54
Speaker 1: that it started with the idealization and then it went
9:58
Speaker 1: through to the de value waition. The idealization is when
10:02
Speaker 1: he was dating her, right when they were together, when
10:05
Speaker 1: they were going out, and then do you remember that
10:07
Speaker 1: she found out that he was planning a vacation with
10:10
Speaker 1: another woman. Then it went from the idealization to the devaluation,
10:15
Speaker 1: and that's when she started to plot her revenge. You know,
10:18
Speaker 1: not only was she preoccupied with killing him, but she
10:23
Speaker 1: was absolutely obsessed with him. And I think that Jodi
10:27
Speaker 1: Arias idealizes and devalues every man in her life. And
10:31
Speaker 1: I'm sure KIRKNRMI is no different than any other man
10:34
Speaker 1: who has crossed her path. That she thought that he
10:37
Speaker 1: was a god when he was defending her. But now
10:40
Speaker 1: that she's behind bars and she hasn't gotten exactly what
10:43
Speaker 1: she wants, She's going to start to plot and plan
10:46
Speaker 1: her revenge against Kirk as well. It's no different. Her
10:49
Speaker 1: attachment style is the same with every single man in
10:52
Speaker 1: her life. Fortunately, she's behind bars, so she can't really
10:55
Speaker 1: do anything to Kirk, but she's trying to do everything
10:58
Speaker 1: she can. Kurt Nermie Jodi Arias trial lawyer with us. Now, Kurt,
11:03
Speaker 1: what are her allegations against you specifically, Well, there's numerous,
11:07
Speaker 1: and they all she claims that some of the things
11:12
Speaker 1: that I said in the book were not true, and
11:14
Speaker 1: she claims that they are violations of attorney client privilege.
11:19
Speaker 1: And there's numerous allegations, uh that she makes. And it's
11:22
Speaker 1: been a while since I've read the complaint because quite frankly,
11:25
Speaker 1: I don't let Jodi Arias sink into my world, sink
11:29
Speaker 1: into my life. I look forward though, to defending each
11:32
Speaker 1: and everyone in coordinay. As a matter of fact, after
11:35
Speaker 1: the trial, you we're diagnosed with cancer and you firmly
11:42
Speaker 1: believe it is connected to Jodi Arias. I do um
11:47
Speaker 1: keep in mind that you know this was a client
11:50
Speaker 1: that I did not want, that I tried to divest
11:54
Speaker 1: myself from back in two thousand eleven and was not
11:57
Speaker 1: able to do so until the spring of two thousand fifteen,
12:01
Speaker 1: and I believe the stress of it all, everything involved
12:06
Speaker 1: trying to keep her off death row, did lead to
12:09
Speaker 1: cancer infesting my body in that A few months later,
12:13
Speaker 1: you know, the trial of Jodi Arius and the murder
12:16
Speaker 1: of Travis Alexander just captivated the whole country. Everyone was
12:22
Speaker 1: watching the trial. It's had everything people I want to see.
12:26
Speaker 1: I guess, violence, death, sex, scandal, but there were so
12:32
Speaker 1: many aspects of it that went so much deeper. For instance,
12:38
Speaker 1: two Alexis, Tres Chuck Alexis. The fact that they were
12:44
Speaker 1: part of the Mormon religion seemed to uh, it was
12:49
Speaker 1: like a curiosity to so many people. Why is that?
12:53
Speaker 1: I think it's because the Mormon religion is not as
12:55
Speaker 1: familiar to people across the country as as other religion,
12:59
Speaker 1: the Christian entity, and so people tend to have thought
13:04
Speaker 1: of it as a cult, and so they saw that
13:06
Speaker 1: this there was this what many people called, you know,
13:08
Speaker 1: ritualistic murder, which it wasn't. It was just Jody going
13:11
Speaker 1: crazy and murdering somebody, and they tied it into this church.
13:14
Speaker 1: But also because there were visual images of it. When
13:17
Speaker 1: Jody met Travis, he was a very well respected member
13:20
Speaker 1: of the church, and he brought her into the church
13:23
Speaker 1: and she was baptized and became a member of the church.
13:25
Speaker 1: So there was a photograph of her baptism, and so
13:28
Speaker 1: when people have visual images of things they can see,
13:30
Speaker 1: it makes it so much more compelling. And then she
13:33
Speaker 1: dragged in the fact that after she got baptized, I
13:36
Speaker 1: think she said that she and Travis had sex. And
13:40
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what kind of sex I'm allowed to
13:42
Speaker 1: say on your show, So let's just say not the
13:44
Speaker 1: regular sex and still considered sodomy go ahead. So so
13:50
Speaker 1: it just made it so much more salacious. In Travis
13:53
Speaker 1: was such an upstanding member of this church and people
13:55
Speaker 1: loved him, and he was such a good person, and
13:58
Speaker 1: so she joined the church only because of him. And
14:01
Speaker 1: in fact, after she was convicted, church kicked her out,
14:04
Speaker 1: excommunicated her and said they did not want her in.
14:07
Speaker 1: You know another thing that is always interesting to me,
14:10
Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall, and I don't know what it means,
14:12
Speaker 1: is she immediately gave all of his friends the skith.
14:17
Speaker 1: They were all creeped out by Jeddi Aris. I mean,
14:20
Speaker 1: even when they first met her, they're like, man, get
14:24
Speaker 1: rid of her. Why what was it about her? It
14:26
Speaker 1: was just an instinct. They all hated her. M hmm, Well,
14:32
Speaker 1: I keep thinking about borderline personality disorder. She had a
14:35
Speaker 1: severe personality disorder. Nancy and most women who kill do
14:41
Speaker 1: have borderline personality disorder. And one of the things you
14:44
Speaker 1: notice with borderlines is that when you meet them there
14:47
Speaker 1: intensely idealizing, like I was talking about, they treat you
14:51
Speaker 1: like you're so special. They put her on a pedestal,
14:55
Speaker 1: and they're kind of strangely flirtatious with everybody. It's the
15:00
Speaker 1: flirtation is a type of manipulation. They're trying to be
15:04
Speaker 1: at the center of everybody's universe, men, women, everybody in
15:08
Speaker 1: their path. And so I think everybody sensed this. And
15:12
Speaker 1: the fact that you were asking about the Mormon religion,
15:14
Speaker 1: the Mormon faith, Um, Travis Alexander was a very good
15:19
Speaker 1: person and he was beloved by his roommates and his church.
15:23
Speaker 1: And there's really this contrast between good and evil. You know,
15:27
Speaker 1: there's this Mormon community and then there's this woman who
15:30
Speaker 1: inserts herself into his life ingratiates herself. It's like the
15:35
Speaker 1: fox got into the henhouse somehow, don't you think, Um,
15:39
Speaker 1: you know. And the other thing about skiming people out.
15:42
Speaker 1: I remember some photograph where she was sitting with him
15:47
Speaker 1: and his friends, and I think she either had her
15:50
Speaker 1: feet on his lap or his her head on his lap.
15:53
Speaker 1: But I had a sort of a strange sexual quality.
15:56
Speaker 1: So here's this benign gathering of friends and she's acting
16:01
Speaker 1: kind of sexual in front of all of them. And
16:03
Speaker 1: I'm sure she did that continuously and they thought that
16:05
Speaker 1: was really weird. Let me pause and thank our partners
16:11
Speaker 1: that are making our program possible today as we investigate
16:17
Speaker 1: behind Bars Jodi Arius convicted killers life and her lawsuit
16:23
Speaker 1: because the convicted killer Jodi Arius is now targeting the
16:26
Speaker 1: man who once stood by her side that Mini credit
16:31
Speaker 1: with saving her from the death penalty. She was on
16:35
Speaker 1: trial for her lover's death, and now she has told
16:40
Speaker 1: the world that she is out for blood again, but
16:45
Speaker 1: this time on her own. Lawyer Kurt Nermi is with us,
16:50
Speaker 1: and let me thank our partner for making this possible.
16:53
Speaker 1: It is lenk a k C dot com. Guys. You
16:57
Speaker 1: know how much I love our family dog, fat Boy
17:00
Speaker 1: a k A Nitro. I'm always looking for new things
17:03
Speaker 1: to try with and whether it's food, fundsho, toy, a
17:06
Speaker 1: treat or Now an amazing new caller and it's called
17:09
Speaker 1: link a k C. It's so much more than a collar.
17:13
Speaker 1: It's backed by the American Kennel Club. The link a
17:16
Speaker 1: k C caller is a GPS locator, a fitness tracker,
17:20
Speaker 1: and a smartphone app all rolled into one. I like
17:23
Speaker 1: the GPS locator because I know where fat Boy is
17:26
Speaker 1: all the time. I don't have to worry. Has he
17:28
Speaker 1: jumped over the fence as he running down the street?
17:30
Speaker 1: Has he been running over? Has somebody interested in stealing
17:33
Speaker 1: a mutt taken the little guy? It's total peace of mind.
17:38
Speaker 1: I can see exactly where fat Boy is right on
17:40
Speaker 1: the app. Favorite part Activity and wellness tracker, Yes for
17:44
Speaker 1: a dog. Doesn't matter how old your dog is, whether
17:47
Speaker 1: it's a pure bread mixed or a mutt like mine.
17:50
Speaker 1: Link a k C shows the exact amount of activity
17:53
Speaker 1: every dog needs, and it's easy to set up their
17:55
Speaker 1: sizes for every dog and super comfy. Link a k
17:59
Speaker 1: C looks eight on fat Boy. You can see him
18:01
Speaker 1: on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Keep your dog safe, happy
18:05
Speaker 1: and healthy. It's easier now with a special offer from
18:07
Speaker 1: link ak C. Go to link a k C dot com.
18:10
Speaker 1: Use code Nancy to save thirty off your order with
18:14
Speaker 1: free shipping code Nancy in a n C y save
18:17
Speaker 1: thirty on your order. That's a lot plus free shipping
18:21
Speaker 1: at link a k C dot com. Link a k
18:24
Speaker 1: C dot com code Nancy to Kirknerman Jodi Arias, former
18:30
Speaker 1: lawyer that many credit with saving her from the death penalty.
18:35
Speaker 1: Your book, Trapped with Miss Arias. Trapped with Jodi Arias
18:40
Speaker 1: UM made a lot of waves. What is the single
18:43
Speaker 1: thing in there that apparently has made convicted killer Jodi
18:47
Speaker 1: Arias the most angry? Well, again, that might be a
18:50
Speaker 1: question for her, but she seems to take umbrage with
18:53
Speaker 1: the fact that, uh, you know, back in say, two
18:57
Speaker 1: thousand eleven, Um, she characterized me, to my thinking as
19:02
Speaker 1: her boyfriend. Um, it was something that is, wait, how'd
19:08
Speaker 1: your wife feel about that? Well, what what goes on
19:11
Speaker 1: in Jody's head isn't necessarily in um, consistent with reality.
19:17
Speaker 1: And that was her view of me, not my view
19:19
Speaker 1: of her or anyone else's view of the entire situation.
19:22
Speaker 1: But it was Jody, and that's how I believe it was.
19:25
Speaker 1: And and Bethany talked about the I'm not a psychologist,
19:28
Speaker 1: but Bethany talked about that idealization and then that um
19:33
Speaker 1: component of detachment and devaluing, And um, I think that's
19:37
Speaker 1: kind of consistent with what I said in the book
19:41
Speaker 1: in terms of how she treated me, because remember in
19:44
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, Uh, she bagged through the force of
19:49
Speaker 1: two lawyers and what have you to say, Kirk needs
19:53
Speaker 1: to be on my case, he needs to be my lawyer.
19:56
Speaker 1: And now this how surprised were you when you found
20:00
Speaker 1: out that she was actually suing you? Not at all,
20:02
Speaker 1: because you know, I said the other day, you know,
20:05
Speaker 1: if I'm the world's leading expert on anything, it's Jody Arias.
20:09
Speaker 1: And this sort of action, this sort of vengeance on
20:12
Speaker 1: her part, is not unsurprising to me at all. It
20:15
Speaker 1: is consistent with a pattern of men in her life
20:19
Speaker 1: and unfortunately, um, you know Mr Alexander suffered the most
20:23
Speaker 1: in that regard. Now, another thing that she claims as
20:28
Speaker 1: um that you, Kurt nermy had a quote unprofessional and
20:33
Speaker 1: prurient interest in the sex nature of her case. Well,
20:38
Speaker 1: I mean her case was all about sex. Every kind
20:42
Speaker 1: of sex you can think of, sex, toys, sex aid,
20:46
Speaker 1: semi public sex, sex, in the woods, blah blah blah.
20:50
Speaker 1: In fact, the day of Travis Alexander's murder, she shows
20:53
Speaker 1: up and they have a set a marathon day of
20:59
Speaker 1: sex all old day, and at the end of it
21:03
Speaker 1: she finds out he's still going to I think it
21:06
Speaker 1: was keen kin with another woman that he had already
21:08
Speaker 1: invited to go on a trip with him, and instead
21:11
Speaker 1: of packing her bag and huffing out like most people
21:14
Speaker 1: would do and never caught talking to him again, he
21:18
Speaker 1: ends up dead shots stabbed twenty nine times, a shot
21:21
Speaker 1: with the gun, slumped over, and left to rot in
21:25
Speaker 1: his shower stall. That's what happened. So, Kurt, are you
21:29
Speaker 1: surprised that she behind bars is telling people that you
21:33
Speaker 1: had a quote prurient interest in her sex life. I mean,
21:37
Speaker 1: when you try to handle the case, you can't help
21:39
Speaker 1: it here about her sex life. That's exactly right, and
21:43
Speaker 1: it doesn't surprise me. It's just a mechanism for her
21:47
Speaker 1: to attack me and try to embarrass me. And we've
21:50
Speaker 1: seen that habit, if you will, with others other men
21:55
Speaker 1: in her life as well, right, we consistently see that
21:58
Speaker 1: throughout her life. Bethany Um, you know it did a
22:01
Speaker 1: good job, I think of of stating some of the
22:04
Speaker 1: realities that we see with miss areas. Guys, I am
22:07
Speaker 1: talking to Kirk Nurmi, the trial lawyer for Jodi Arius,
22:11
Speaker 1: now behind bars for the murder, the brutal murder of
22:15
Speaker 1: Travis sal and Sander with me Alexis tres Chuck, investigative
22:19
Speaker 1: reporter for Radar Online dot Com. Dr Bethany Marshall, ELI psychoanalyst,
22:24
Speaker 1: and Alan Duke also joining me to you, Alexis tres Chuck,
22:29
Speaker 1: When you look back on the evidence at trial, was
22:32
Speaker 1: there any way to separate Jodi Arius from sex that
22:36
Speaker 1: seemed to be her hold on Travis. Not only was
22:40
Speaker 1: it her hold on Travis, it was everything in her life.
22:43
Speaker 1: The entire trial was she left him early, she moved
22:46
Speaker 1: in with a boyfriend, She lived with him for a
22:48
Speaker 1: little while, she moved out, she moved in with the
22:49
Speaker 1: next boyfriend. Everything in her life was about sex, including
22:53
Speaker 1: she's which I had said earlier, The very first time
22:55
Speaker 1: she gets baptized, she and Travis have sex after it.
22:58
Speaker 1: The recordings that she said were you showed that Travis
23:02
Speaker 1: was obsessed with sex. Were her talking about how much
23:04
Speaker 1: she wanted him to tie her up and tie her
23:06
Speaker 1: to a tree, and she said, oh, it's so debasing.
23:08
Speaker 1: I like it there. Her entire relationship with Travis was
23:12
Speaker 1: based on sex. And when he decided he didn't want
23:14
Speaker 1: to have it with her anymore because she was crazy,
23:15
Speaker 1: that's when she decided to kill him. You know, I
23:17
Speaker 1: left out the phone sex, uh and the photos. Oh yes,
23:23
Speaker 1: speaking of photos, Dr Bethany Marshall, A major part of
23:28
Speaker 1: the trial, I thought was when a digital camera was
23:33
Speaker 1: discovered and it was full of shots sex shots, including
23:38
Speaker 1: areas naked, and they were taken just before he's killed,
23:42
Speaker 1: in the hours before his death. Do you recall that, Nancy,
23:46
Speaker 1: I do. I was actually just about to mention that
23:48
Speaker 1: that she photographed everything, so the marathon sex session just
23:53
Speaker 1: before she stabbed him twenty nine times, she continually photographed
23:58
Speaker 1: both of them throughout that day. She had many, many
24:01
Speaker 1: pictures of the two of them having sex. And Alexis
24:05
Speaker 1: was describing beautifully this history of sexualization of all of
24:08
Speaker 1: her relationships. And what women with borderline personality do is
24:13
Speaker 1: they have what we call in my field, merger fantasies.
24:16
Speaker 1: They want to be one with their love objects. They
24:18
Speaker 1: want to reduce the distance between them and the other person,
24:22
Speaker 1: and then they use sex to manipulate they they use
24:26
Speaker 1: sex to create some kind of excitement to hold onto
24:29
Speaker 1: the other person. So sex becomes the glue that holds
24:33
Speaker 1: the relationship together. And so so you have the idealization
24:37
Speaker 1: and then the devaluation that I talked about, but you
24:39
Speaker 1: also have cleaning and then rejecting behavior. This is the
24:43
Speaker 1: hallmark of personality disorders that when they meet somebody, they
24:46
Speaker 1: want to have sex right away. They want to marry
24:48
Speaker 1: that person right away, they want to move in. That
24:51
Speaker 1: person becomes their whole life. And the minute they feel
24:55
Speaker 1: the tiniest, littlest in beans ist little bit of rejection,
25:01
Speaker 1: then they move in for the kill. That is the
25:03
Speaker 1: hallmark of a personality disorder is clinging, merging, and then
25:09
Speaker 1: at the first signe of rejection moving in to destroy
25:12
Speaker 1: and attack the love object. If you just if you
25:15
Speaker 1: understand nothing else about personality disorders, if you just hold
25:18
Speaker 1: on to that, it really tells you a lot about
25:21
Speaker 1: human nature. And for your listeners who are listening into
25:23
Speaker 1: this show, people who are dating, when you meet somebody
25:26
Speaker 1: who wants to just move in on you right away,
25:28
Speaker 1: wants to have sex right away wants to marry you.
25:31
Speaker 1: I mean, all of a sudden, they put you on
25:33
Speaker 1: a pedestal and you are their whole entire world. You're
25:35
Speaker 1: going to get knocked off that pedestal in a very
25:38
Speaker 1: rude way, because the idealization always leads to de valuation.
25:42
Speaker 1: There their opposite sides of the same coin in terms
25:45
Speaker 1: of how these people attach. Take a listen to what
25:49
Speaker 1: the jury heard. Would you agree that you're the person
25:53
Speaker 1: who actually slid Mr Alexander's throat from ear to ear? Yes?
26:04
Speaker 1: Would you also agree that you're the individual that stabbed
26:08
Speaker 1: him in the upper torso yes, And you're doing all
26:20
Speaker 1: of us too, according to your version of events, you're
26:24
Speaker 1: doing to this is individual after you have already shot him, right, Yes, correct?
26:38
Speaker 1: I believe so. Well. No, do you remember previously talking
26:41
Speaker 1: to us about how he was coming at you and
26:44
Speaker 1: he was this horrible man with his mean face. Do
26:46
Speaker 1: you remember telling me that he isn't I didn't say
26:49
Speaker 1: he was bold? Okay, thank you for correcting me. But
26:54
Speaker 1: do you remember telling us that he was a mean man?
26:58
Speaker 1: Not today? Well, previously previously you did say that he
27:02
Speaker 1: was immediately correct? I think I did? Yes, And on
27:06
Speaker 1: this particular occasion, you told us that he was cursing
27:10
Speaker 1: at you, right, and that he threw you down right, Yes,
27:16
Speaker 1: that he chased you down right. Yes, And this is
27:23
Speaker 1: the individual that you shot first, right, he had not
27:26
Speaker 1: if I shot him and just feel d off the
27:31
Speaker 1: gun went off, right, you can at least acknowledge. Yes,
27:35
Speaker 1: that's something that you did here. Yes with me? Is
27:39
Speaker 1: kirk Nermi, the trial lawyer for now infamous killer Jodi Arias,
27:45
Speaker 1: who is simmering behind bars, drawing her quote art, reading
27:49
Speaker 1: her love letters, reading books, chill axing, and watching cable TV.
27:55
Speaker 1: Kirk Nermy, how did you keep a straight face when
27:59
Speaker 1: the jury saw pictures of your client buck naked on
28:02
Speaker 1: Travis Alexander's bid in the hours right before he was murdered.
28:06
Speaker 1: Well it was evidence, you know, and this is in
28:09
Speaker 1: the courtroom is a bit of a theater, and you
28:11
Speaker 1: present evidence. We talked a little bit earlier about you know,
28:15
Speaker 1: the sexual aspects of this case. Um, there was there
28:19
Speaker 1: was saturated. It was just another piece of evidence, and
28:22
Speaker 1: unlike miss Arius claims, I had no obsession with it.
28:26
Speaker 1: It was evidence like any other. Joining me. Dr Bethany Marshall,
28:30
Speaker 1: l A. Psychoanalyst Alexis to Restuck writer online dot Com
28:34
Speaker 1: and kirk Nermi, Jodi Arius trial lawyer who many credit
28:40
Speaker 1: with saving her from death row. It's legal war. Kirk Nermie,
28:46
Speaker 1: her former lawyer, ready to go to court to fight
28:50
Speaker 1: Jodi Arius in an exploding court battle. So kirk Nermi,
28:55
Speaker 1: explain to me what you hope to gain out of
28:57
Speaker 1: going to court. Well, I hope to a the opportunity
29:01
Speaker 1: I guess to let people know what I really think
29:04
Speaker 1: and what I really feel. I think a lot of
29:06
Speaker 1: people and this is part of the reason I wrote
29:08
Speaker 1: traffics miss Arius is a lot of people felt like
29:11
Speaker 1: I supported her, like I believed her story, like I
29:15
Speaker 1: was a fanomous Arius what have you? Because they saw
29:19
Speaker 1: that visualization in court when the reality was I didn't
29:22
Speaker 1: get to pick my client. I was there to do
29:25
Speaker 1: a job. I had a job to do. I stood
29:27
Speaker 1: up to the world to save her life. I stood
29:30
Speaker 1: up to cancer to save mine, and now I'm more
29:32
Speaker 1: than willing to stand up to miss Arius to make
29:35
Speaker 1: sure the world understands what I truly feel. I've got
29:38
Speaker 1: a question for you, kurtin Army. I would never have
29:42
Speaker 1: known that you felt this way during the trial, explain
29:47
Speaker 1: to those listening now, how you tried to get off
29:51
Speaker 1: the case, what you did to try to get out
29:54
Speaker 1: of representing Jodi Arias, and how you how you stealed
29:59
Speaker 1: your self to go in there and fight the good
30:02
Speaker 1: fight for her. You know, in two thousand or two
30:04
Speaker 1: thousand nine, when I was assigned the case Nancy, I
30:07
Speaker 1: was working at the Public Defender's Office and didn't have
30:09
Speaker 1: a choice in who my client was and really didn't
30:12
Speaker 1: know anything about her UM and in by the time
30:16
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven rolled around, I was ready to leave
30:19
Speaker 1: the Public Defender's office, ready to leave definitely work. And
30:23
Speaker 1: that is when I intended to leave miss Arius behind.
30:26
Speaker 1: She objected to that, and there was a series of
30:29
Speaker 1: litigation that ended in April of two thousand eleven UM
30:34
Speaker 1: where my emotions to withdraw were denied. That happened again
30:38
Speaker 1: in two thousand and in that fall I was when
30:42
Speaker 1: the Public Defender's Office was allowed to withdraw. I moved
30:45
Speaker 1: to withdraw myself again. There was a plethora of motions
30:49
Speaker 1: to withdraw that we're all denied. Once that happened. Ultimately,
30:54
Speaker 1: then you ask how I could do what I had
30:57
Speaker 1: to do is because I was ordered by the court
30:59
Speaker 1: to do it. And as a defense attorney, I believe
31:03
Speaker 1: in the Constitution, in the sixth Amendment, and then every person,
31:07
Speaker 1: even miss Arius, has a right to a fair trial
31:12
Speaker 1: and a vigorous defense. And on a personal level, beyond that, UM,
31:17
Speaker 1: I am a person who does not believe in the
31:20
Speaker 1: death penalty. So uh, goal number one of the death
31:24
Speaker 1: penalty attorney being saving the client's life was certainly something
31:27
Speaker 1: that on a personal level I felt compelled to do
31:32
Speaker 1: with me. Is kirk Nermi high profile A lawyer that
31:35
Speaker 1: represented Jodi Arius at trial. Dr Bethany Marshall L a psychoanalyst.
31:41
Speaker 1: Dr Bethany I guarantee you that Jodi Arias to this
31:46
Speaker 1: day thinks that she's the victim behind bars. Absolutely she does.
31:51
Speaker 1: And when kirk Nermi was saying that his motion to
31:55
Speaker 1: withdraw was denied, Travis Alexander's motion to withdraw is denied
32:00
Speaker 1: to No man is allowed to withdraw from Jodi Arias
32:04
Speaker 1: is life. And um, I keep going back to the
32:08
Speaker 1: idea of borderline personality disorder. Women with this disorder are
32:14
Speaker 1: very paranoid. They do not see themselves as the architect
32:19
Speaker 1: or the generator of their own experience. They think that
32:22
Speaker 1: everybody else is out to get them. They feel wronged
32:25
Speaker 1: by society. And I wouldn't be surprised if this action
32:29
Speaker 1: against Kirk Nurmi not only does it parallel her actions
32:33
Speaker 1: against Travis Alexander, but it generates excitement in her life.
32:38
Speaker 1: She gets to get away from the jail, she gets
32:41
Speaker 1: to be in the limelight. She gets attention all over again.
32:45
Speaker 1: And this is what Jodi Arias is all about. She's
32:48
Speaker 1: about herself. She's about being in the limelight. And this
32:51
Speaker 1: and one more time, it's at another man's expense. To
32:55
Speaker 1: Alexis stret Check, writer online dot Com, Dr Bethany Marshall,
32:59
Speaker 1: and Kirk Nurmi, author of Trapped with miss Arius Jodi
33:04
Speaker 1: Arius Kirk, I wish you the very very best, Frank Nay.
33:09
Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure talking with you today as always.
33:13
Speaker 1: And you know another thing, Kirk, I just really admire
33:17
Speaker 1: your fight against cancer and I do too. God bless you,
33:21
Speaker 1: God bless you, and stay strong friend. Thank you. It
33:25
Speaker 1: really came, it really came into a tough, a tough
33:27
Speaker 1: time after all that, you know, and to think there
33:30
Speaker 1: were moments when I thought do I really wanted to
33:32
Speaker 1: engage in this fight. What's the point. What has my
33:35
Speaker 1: life become? And um, I'm glad I did. I'm glad
33:38
Speaker 1: I'm in a new place. But yeah, it was it
33:40
Speaker 1: was a real struggle because again, um, how this trial
33:45
Speaker 1: affect in my life is just uh ineasurable, I guess,
33:50
Speaker 1: and destroyed my life. How did it destroy your life?
33:55
Speaker 1: How did it affect you? Well, I think more than
33:58
Speaker 1: anything apart from you know, I believe that that cancer
34:02
Speaker 1: when I came into my life, I think it took
34:03
Speaker 1: my identity. Um. I think that when throughout the course
34:08
Speaker 1: of the trial and even now when I go somewhere
34:11
Speaker 1: and I say my name is it's what the story,
34:14
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Um, there's a fear that people will
34:19
Speaker 1: associate me with her and associate that, uh, that correlation
34:24
Speaker 1: that I talked about earlier, that um, that they think
34:28
Speaker 1: that I believe in her and what she did, in
34:30
Speaker 1: the righteousness of what she did, or what have you
34:32
Speaker 1: to that association. I said in a recent interview that
34:36
Speaker 1: when I die, if it was covered on the news,
34:37
Speaker 1: it will be because because I was jod Yearous's lawyer,
34:41
Speaker 1: I get your cancer, and my legacy would probably be
34:45
Speaker 1: as miserious his lawyers. So yes, it's that to me
34:47
Speaker 1: a great deal, you know, Kurtner, me, that's not how
34:50
Speaker 1: I see you at all. And I'm very privileged to
34:54
Speaker 1: count you as a friend and colleague. And I want
34:56
Speaker 1: to thank you for being with me and all of
34:58
Speaker 1: us listening now. Kurt nermy author of Trapped with miss Arius.
35:03
Speaker 1: It's available on Amazon dot com. Thank you, friend. I
35:08
Speaker 1: want to thank our partner making today's program possible, making
35:12
Speaker 1: it possible for you to join us today. It's legal Zoom.
35:17
Speaker 1: And all you business owners know how important it is
35:20
Speaker 1: to keep moving forward. But so many times issues pop
35:24
Speaker 1: up to take your time and focus away from growing
35:27
Speaker 1: your business. When it comes to with things like reviewing contracts,
35:30
Speaker 1: registering trademarks, staying current on fees and permits, contracts, hiring issues.
35:37
Speaker 1: Legal zoom dot com simplifies your life. It was created
35:41
Speaker 1: sixteen years ago by the very brightest minds and long technology.
35:46
Speaker 1: And like I always say, when you don't know a horse,
35:49
Speaker 1: look at his track record. Legal Zoom has already helped
35:52
Speaker 1: over two million business owners easily affordably navigate the legal
35:56
Speaker 1: system with confidence. Because you know what, you don't have
35:59
Speaker 1: to wait cup at three am and think, oh my stars,
36:02
Speaker 1: billable hours stacking up behind my back by your law firm.
36:06
Speaker 1: Legal Zoom is not a law firm. Instead, you get
36:09
Speaker 1: the advice you need to answer your business questions at
36:12
Speaker 1: fixed rates through legal zooms nationwide network of independent lawyers.
36:19
Speaker 1: Take pressure off yourself. Go to legal zoom dot com
36:21
Speaker 1: now take care of business before the year winds down.
36:25
Speaker 1: Special savings. Enter code Nancy in a n C Wyatt
36:28
Speaker 1: the referral box to check out Code Nancy equals special
36:33
Speaker 1: savings only at legal zoom dot com. Legal Zoom thank
36:37
Speaker 1: you for what you do for American business owners, and
36:40
Speaker 1: thank you for being our partner today. And now we
36:44
Speaker 1: travel to North Carolina and the very latest and the
36:48
Speaker 1: story of a missing girl that we covered. Just a beautiful,
36:52
Speaker 1: beautiful girl, Ashanti Billy, a teen girl of nineteen. She
36:56
Speaker 1: disappeared in September en route to work at Salmich Shop
37:01
Speaker 1: on joint expeditionary based Little Creek Fort Story in Norfolk, Virginia.
37:07
Speaker 1: Take a listen to a shanty Billy's mother when a
37:11
Speaker 1: shanty goes missing. Everyone, please, I'm begging everybody, please pray
37:24
Speaker 1: for my baby. Please please pray for a shanty billy
37:32
Speaker 1: by Dollard. My baby, she's not everything's prey for Erey.
37:36
Speaker 1: My baby home today. Everyone, please share anyone you know
37:43
Speaker 1: help me bring my baby a shanty home. Please? How
37:49
Speaker 1: did this girl with her whole wife in front of
37:51
Speaker 1: her disappear? Then we find out hundreds of miles away
37:58
Speaker 1: her body is found near a church. Right now a
38:02
Speaker 1: crack in the case, joining me, Bobby Maxwell, crime story
38:07
Speaker 1: in the case. What happened? Yes, Nancy a lot on
38:13
Speaker 1: forty five year old Eric Brown who actually they did
38:17
Speaker 1: a lot of investigative work on this and finally, almost
38:20
Speaker 1: two months later, they've come up with so much. There
38:22
Speaker 1: was DNA from him on a shanty billy, um and
38:25
Speaker 1: the clothing and such and also um the place where
38:29
Speaker 1: she was found was three hundred yards from his childhood home. Uh.
38:33
Speaker 1: He had cell phone data doing Internet searches of the
38:35
Speaker 1: crime even before Ashanti's body was found, and apparently it
38:40
Speaker 1: was homeless. Even though he was a retired twenty one
38:42
Speaker 1: year old navy vet, he spent a lot of time
38:45
Speaker 1: at that naval base, including multiple times in the Blimpy
38:49
Speaker 1: subshop where Ashanti worked straight out to Cheryl McCullum, Director
38:53
Speaker 1: of the Coal Case Institute, crime scene expert Cheryl McCullum,
38:57
Speaker 1: when you and I first started bring a Shanty Billy's case,
39:01
Speaker 1: this is so close to what you were saying. Analyze
39:06
Speaker 1: what we know now, Cheryl McCullum, Well, again, Nancy, we
39:09
Speaker 1: all talked about it that day, but that church was
39:13
Speaker 1: very critical to me because where somebody chooses to dump
39:17
Speaker 1: a body tells a lot about the perpetrator. And that
39:21
Speaker 1: particular church, being you know, so many hundreds of miles
39:26
Speaker 1: away from where she was kidnapped, told me that he
39:28
Speaker 1: absolutely knew that area and knew that place. And of
39:32
Speaker 1: course we know now that not only was it, you know,
39:34
Speaker 1: three hundred yards from his childhood home, that he actually
39:37
Speaker 1: went to vacation Bible school. I mean, you can look
39:40
Speaker 1: and I'll give you anecdotal examples of what you know statistically.
39:43
Speaker 1: I mean, look at Top Mom Casey Anthony Kelly's body
39:47
Speaker 1: was found wrapped in trash bags like she was trash
39:52
Speaker 1: and thrown into a swampy wooded area which was right
39:56
Speaker 1: behind the elementary school where Top Mom went. In fact,
39:59
Speaker 1: where the body was was the spot where she and
40:01
Speaker 1: her friends would hang out in smart when they were
40:03
Speaker 1: kids and hide out. I mean, look at Scott Peterson.
40:06
Speaker 1: Lazy Peterson's body was found. It washed up at San
40:09
Speaker 1: Francisco Bay. He was fishing there. That was one of
40:13
Speaker 1: his fishing holes. I mean it goes on and on.
40:16
Speaker 1: I mean look at gay Cy. He he had bodies
40:19
Speaker 1: in the crawl space of his home. So what you're saying,
40:23
Speaker 1: and what I'm trying to say is it's very significant
40:26
Speaker 1: where a body is found. It's human nature. They want
40:30
Speaker 1: to be somewhere that they are comfortable. They're gonna spend
40:33
Speaker 1: a little bit of time there, so they want to
40:35
Speaker 1: be sure that they're not gonna be seen. They know
40:38
Speaker 1: the way to get in, they know the way to
40:40
Speaker 1: get out, they know that nobody's gonna be around there.
40:43
Speaker 1: They picked it deliberately. So again it gives you insight
40:47
Speaker 1: to that person. A forty five year old navy veteran
40:52
Speaker 1: now being held in the brutal murder of a young girl,
40:56
Speaker 1: Ashanti Billy Cheryl McCullum. What do you make of him,
41:01
Speaker 1: the alleged purp Well, I mean, he clearly was stalking her,
41:06
Speaker 1: he knew her, He went there every day. Um, he
41:09
Speaker 1: engaged with her, conversation. He was inappropriate with her, so
41:13
Speaker 1: he probably was fixated on her, and he made his
41:17
Speaker 1: mind up that he was going to have her one
41:18
Speaker 1: way or the other, and the only way that he
41:20
Speaker 1: could have her was to kidnap her and forced himself
41:23
Speaker 1: on her, which it appears is exactly what he did.
41:27
Speaker 1: We know her pants were in the car and they
41:29
Speaker 1: had mud on them, so that would tell me that
41:32
Speaker 1: he disrobed her at the scene and took the pants
41:36
Speaker 1: with him, which would not be unusual. Um. They haven't
41:39
Speaker 1: told us a manner of death that I know so far,
41:41
Speaker 1: but I do know that they said that she was
41:43
Speaker 1: basically battered, so again a lot of rage from him. Um.
41:48
Speaker 1: He lived on and off that base, a different buildings,
41:51
Speaker 1: so yes, he was homeless, but he certainly knew his
41:53
Speaker 1: way around there. He's admitted to being there the day
41:56
Speaker 1: that she went missing, but of course claims he blacked
42:00
Speaker 1: out and didn't know whether or not a hurt, which
42:03
Speaker 1: is not going to be an excuse that holds up
42:04
Speaker 1: in any way to Dr Bethany Marshall l a psychoanalyst.
42:08
Speaker 1: Dr Bethany, give me shrink it. What tell me what
42:12
Speaker 1: you think of this? Um? Psychologically. Well. I agree with
42:16
Speaker 1: everything Cheryl said. She described it so beautifully. What I
42:20
Speaker 1: can add is the fact that he was homeless means
42:22
Speaker 1: he's very low functioning, maybe even mentally ill um So
42:27
Speaker 1: he might have killed her because he didn't know what
42:30
Speaker 1: else to do with her. And the fact that her
42:33
Speaker 1: body was so badly battered when she tried to resist
42:36
Speaker 1: to sexual advances, he probably mistook it as rejection and
42:41
Speaker 1: flew into a rage and battered her. And then once
42:44
Speaker 1: he battered her so badly, he didn't know what else
42:46
Speaker 1: to do, so then he killed her. I agree with
42:48
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. He went to a place that was very
42:51
Speaker 1: familiar to him, the back of the church where he
42:54
Speaker 1: went to vacation Bible school, but also it's near where
42:57
Speaker 1: his mother lives. And these criminals, they they they dumped
43:01
Speaker 1: the body. The dump site is usually a familiar place,
43:04
Speaker 1: but it's often a place where they grew up and
43:06
Speaker 1: they were nurtured by their own mothers. You know, when
43:09
Speaker 1: criminals get out of jail, or when they when they
43:13
Speaker 1: escape jail, you know how they always go back to
43:15
Speaker 1: where their mothers are. They have this strange fixation that
43:19
Speaker 1: that's where they want to be. I think obviously he
43:22
Speaker 1: was stalking her. According to one customer at the Blimpi
43:25
Speaker 1: subway shop, he had made some crude sexual comments to her.
43:29
Speaker 1: And we know that men who stalk um, they become
43:32
Speaker 1: preoccupied with the victim. But not only are they preoccupied
43:36
Speaker 1: with gaining proximity to the victim, they're preoccupied with the
43:40
Speaker 1: idea that they've been rejected by the victim. That's why
43:44
Speaker 1: they punished the victims. So he was both admiring and
43:48
Speaker 1: desirous of getting close to her and having sex with her,
43:51
Speaker 1: but he was enraged at her for having rejected him,
43:53
Speaker 1: and I think that's really the motivation behind this crime. Again,
43:57
Speaker 1: here is Ashanti Bili's mom, just after her daughter's body
44:01
Speaker 1: was found. Hi. My name is Brandy Billy. I'm the
44:06
Speaker 1: mom of Ashanti Marcala Billy. As many of you know,
44:11
Speaker 1: we were searching for a dog because she was missing
44:14
Speaker 1: since September eight. I'm sure most of you have already
44:19
Speaker 1: heard that her body was located in Charlotte, North Carolina.
44:26
Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you to everyone that
44:31
Speaker 1: helped us spread the word that she was missing, everyone
44:34
Speaker 1: that had a tip, everyone that shared the posted sent
44:38
Speaker 1: their prayers. Just thank you that meant a lot to
44:42
Speaker 1: us as we were searching for her, To her father
44:45
Speaker 1: and I and her loved ones. Thank you for all
44:47
Speaker 1: the community support we received in the Hampton Roads, Virginia,
44:51
Speaker 1: bat Chesapeake, Norfolk area, even to our family and friends
44:55
Speaker 1: and the d m V where we're from. Thank you
44:59
Speaker 1: those far and why across the country. Thank you. Ashanti's
45:03
Speaker 1: life was taken from her, but her spirit wasn't taken
45:07
Speaker 1: from us at all. We're gonna continue to live the
45:11
Speaker 1: life that she would have wanted us to live, as
45:14
Speaker 1: well as spreading her legacy as we move forward. Our
45:18
Speaker 1: plans are set up a scholarship in her name with
45:21
Speaker 1: the Art Institute of a Jaian Beach for Culinary Arts.
45:25
Speaker 1: Will also be subforming a nonprofit organization to help other
45:29
Speaker 1: families of missing loved ones, to provide guidance for them,
45:34
Speaker 1: help and assistance for them to bring the loved ones home.
45:39
Speaker 1: There has to be something for adults when they go missing.
45:43
Speaker 1: You have alerts for a ten under, you have alerts
45:46
Speaker 1: for sixty five and older. What we don't have is
45:49
Speaker 1: something for anyone in the middle. I whole hardly believe
45:54
Speaker 1: that had there been some type of alert that was
45:56
Speaker 1: able to be put out for her. She may have
46:01
Speaker 1: been coming home with us of her own free will,
46:05
Speaker 1: but she's still coming home with us. We're taking our
46:08
Speaker 1: baby home where she can rest in peace with her
46:12
Speaker 1: loved ones. So again I just want to say thank you,
46:17
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you all and bless you all. Thank
46:20
Speaker 1: you for your prayers. They meant the world to her
46:24
Speaker 1: father and I, her family, her friends, and her loved ones.
46:30
Speaker 1: So just please continue to use social media in the
46:32
Speaker 1: positive way because that's what we joined to. Everything we
46:36
Speaker 1: saw us positive. So thank you, We love you, and
46:39
Speaker 1: the shock he loves you. Thank you do. Bobby Maxwell.
46:44
Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter, Bobby how do authorities believe the
46:49
Speaker 1: murder took place? Well, they believe that he actually was
46:52
Speaker 1: in that area of the bloom By shop and they
46:55
Speaker 1: saw her car circling the restaurant when she was going
46:58
Speaker 1: to work that morning and then um, some time between
47:00
Speaker 1: her going to that workplace and thirty minutes when they
47:03
Speaker 1: saw the car leaving, um, Eric Brown abducted, abducted her
47:09
Speaker 1: and left the base. That's where they're trying to fill
47:12
Speaker 1: in the hole. So Cheryl McCullum, when I was in
47:14
Speaker 1: law school, trying to put myself through law school with
47:18
Speaker 1: I think at one time I was working three jobs.
47:19
Speaker 1: Why was it a sandwich shop? And I remember being
47:22
Speaker 1: there at night, all by myself in a strip mall um,
47:28
Speaker 1: you know, just sitting there studying my law books, waiting
47:30
Speaker 1: for a customer to come in. And you know, you
47:32
Speaker 1: look back on at Sheryl and it's so stupid, but
47:36
Speaker 1: yet it's still happening every day, a single person alone,
47:40
Speaker 1: like in a blimp ear where I was z sandwich shop.
47:44
Speaker 1: It just it and it was she was just, you know,
47:48
Speaker 1: like easy pickings for this guy. She was easy pickings.
47:52
Speaker 1: But I'll tell you something else. She probably also felt
47:55
Speaker 1: very comfortable being on a military base and she knew
47:59
Speaker 1: him so, Nancy, even though he had been inappropriate, even
48:03
Speaker 1: though he was homeless, she saw him every day. So
48:07
Speaker 1: even though she might have thought when he's a little crazy,
48:09
Speaker 1: or he's homeless or whatever, she thought he was probably
48:13
Speaker 1: harmless for the most part because there was familiarity to
48:16
Speaker 1: the right. Now. Our prayers and thoughts with Ashaunty Billy's
48:22
Speaker 1: family to Bobby Maxwell, Sheryl McCollum, and Dr Bethany Marshall.
48:27
Speaker 1: Thank you, Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend,