Latest / The Resting Stitch Face Podcast / The Ripple Effect of Opioid Addiction w/Carrie Alvarez

Transcript

The Ripple Effect of Opioid Addiction w/Carrie Alvarez · The Resting Stitch Face Podcast

• Sarah & Carrie: Hello and welcome back for another episode of the Resting Stitch Face Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Harding, and this is my friend Carrie Alvarez. Hello. She's joining us from Dallas, Texas, but she's here with me in Southern California. And we have a really special episode today. We're gonna talk a little bit about opioid addiction. Something that we don't like to talk about too much, but it's really, really, really, truly important. Because what we do all day. is surgery and we prescribe opioids and we're getting away from it, but it's some it's part of our practice. And so like, you know, we gotta talk about it. And so the reason why I'm talking to Carrie about this today is that Carrie has a really personal story about this. And I think it's important to talk about. it's really fresh. It's really difficult. But that's why we're here. And so Carrie. Yes. Hi. Hi. So Carrie's from Dallas. Carrie was married early, young. tw yeah, twenty-two. Yes. Right out of so young college. Yeah. And then who did you marry? Let's talk about it. I married Tommy at twenty two. Yeah. And so then you grew up in Midlothian, Texas, right? yeah, Austin. Okay. But then I moved to Midlothian in high school and met Tommy. Okay. And I went to Baylor College at Industry and he went to Dallas Baptist University and played baseball, got a full ride, academic and for baseball. And we went on a ski trip. his junior year. Okay. And he had he had a fall and had an injury. And the doctor in at Copper Mountain prescribed him forty opiates. Okay. Like forty like forty pills of yeah. Like narcotics. Okay. Yeah. Like five ten. Yeah. Yeah. Like which is what like not shocking. Like no. Yeah. But that was in two thousand two. Okay. And this is when even in dentistry, when you had a filling or a root canal, we prescribed Opiates. Yeah. Yeah. So he came home and I had no idea for two years that he was taking these and his addiction got out of control. And when I found out he had a problem, he was taking twenty eight a day. And we had to check him into rehab. And he was twenty four years old. I dignate. Yeah. Okay. And so you guys had you got married at twenty two? Yeah, twenty-two. Right out of college, yeah. He had one more year of college and Okay. That's when it happened. Wow. Yeah. And then so after that he did great. He he went to rehab and he was doing great and So you guys were married. You had Will at this point. Okay. No, this was before. Okay. and he got super healthy. he was gonna actually go to general school, but then he decided to I didn't realize that. Yeah. He decided to get his teaching certificate after his degree. he thought that was a good way to start back in life. And and then when I was we got we ended up saying, you know what, better for worse, like That's just like a a bump in the road and you're not a true addict because you know this is something that we didn't really plan for plan for, yeah. And when I was seven months pregnant with Will, he was checked in again because he just couldn't do without him. Wow. Yeah. Okay. So then you guys had Will. Yeah. Fast forward. He went into rehab again and then Suboxone came out. Okay. So they were they prescribed him Suboxone. And that is not really dealing with an addiction. Right. That is on the science background behind it. The opiate receptors, that are not the opiate receptors. You know more about this than me. is like Yeah, it just fills in the opiate receptors and is provides the same thing. It's not really dealing with your addiction. Right. And he became addicted to that. Yeah. And so then he was like that's just a substitute, right? Yeah. So like he's okay, now things look better. Right? Looks better. Somewhat. Because like, okay, we're dealing with it. Somewhat, but it's still an addiction. Right. Yeah. That like your life literally re revolves around that. Yeah. Like revolves around like getting the next prescription filled. Okay. Yes. So then your life as the wife and mother You just it's it's I think it's almost like any drug that you take. you just become so dependent on that drug that you don't have any like motivation to do anything. wow. Okay. So that kills a lot of of just anything, like your libido, your yeah, you know, your drive for anything of In your twenties I mean, this was he was in his twenties. We were in our twenties. Yeah. So it it gets draining, you know, when when you're dealing with that. And when in your twenties, like you're like thriving. Yeah. You're like excited about life, like your family, like what's our next step? And yeah. And and you're just like worried about like what tomorrow looks like. Yeah. Yeah. And you get to a point where like when you're trying to do everything you can, As a I really felt like a single mom at that point. Yeah. you think forward and think what's the best for my kids? Right. In their situation if dad is just stuck in his own like little world of ad addiction. Yeah. And not having any drive or any future plans or like day to day. Like what was your day to day? 'Cause like I understand as like a mom of young kids, like you are just surviving anyway, right? Like without that added thing. Yeah. Right? Like without that. Like we're just surviving. So I can only imagine like When you're worried about somebody else, like are they gonna show up again tomorrow? Are they gonna come back tomorrow? Am I gonna get a phone call from the police? Am I gonna like I didn't really worry about that. It was it because he was he always showed up. Okay. but he was in a state that I didn't really wanna trust trust or deal with. Okay. I get that. And and and again, like we're trying to work Towards our future. And it was always like he didn't have like all his goals and all his future plans didn't really exist in our twenties. And that's what we should be doing in our twenties is like planning for our future. But at the end of the day, like in your you're in your twenties, right? Like I know, yeah. Just like we don't know. Like And maybe it's me because I had all these goals and expectations in my twenties. And yeah, maybe I had too many. I don't know. But like he didn't have any. Okay. Yeah. And like you're having that works on you. Yeah, it sure does. Yeah. So then after that He went back to rehab. Now after that, I decided to get a divorce because I we had no future goals anymore. Okay. so this is not going anywhere. No, it's not. Yeah. Okay. And I I want to go somewhere. Yeah. So if I can go somewhere without him, then dragging us down, then I want to do that. Okay. Okay. Got it. So that's okay. Okay. So we got a divorce. Okay. When my youngest was that hard. So hard. Okay. Divorce is the divorce is never easy. Yes. No, it's awful. And you know, when his parents want to cover up everything he's ever, you know, done and try to come in and say, Well, he's he's great and all this stuff, like that's hard. So you fight that. Yeah. When he was employed by his dad. Yeah. So yeah. but yeah, I mean we got a divorce and my kids saw him every other weekend with his parents involved. Yeah. Yeah. And so like it progressed. Yeah. And and when I met you, I think Griff was a year and a half old. I think. Right? Yeah, and we were divorced. Yeah. And I was like, You know, I show up and I'm like just out of fresh out of dental school and I'm like, gosh, look at this hot blonde gal. And like she's got these two kids, like who knows about this gal? And like I'm sure. You know, and yeah. But then to learn about your story and like to live with you through it, it's been incredible because it's been like fifteen years now, right? And so I always I'm gonna say this now, sorry. I when I met you, I was like, my gosh, this gal, she's got like these two kids and like who knows who this girl's baby daddy is? And like that's our problem, right? Like that's the thing is that we all judge each other so much. Right? And like the sh shit, sorry, you've been living through at that point in your life is like insane. Yeah. And here I am, this like poopa doopa doo, like twenty two year old girl. The cute showing up from like coming from South Carolina. Showing up from dental school and like being all judgy and like what a like come on. You were not you didn't seem judgy at all. Right. But like but but I was right. Like that was like that was my thought. I like, my gosh, she's like got these two kids and like I don't even know who their baby daddy is. I'm like, what an asshole. Right? Because I didn't think to all ask or worry or like any of the stuff, right? But like you had so much shit going on and I the and you were so strong. And like it's crazy. But you have to be. You have to be. You have to be for your kids. Yeah, 'cause you just show up every day. Yeah. Right? You do. And you and you do it for your kids. And you know that it's it's the right thing to do. Yeah. For your kids' sake. It's the only thing. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And now I have kids and I'm like, Sarah, you jackass. And now that I I like to watch you with your children. Yes, and struggle all day long, every day. It's okay. Yeah, thanks. It's different. It is different. And so then fast forward, right? So now we're like 15 years later. Yeah. Okay. And so Two-ish years ago. we can even say two thousand eighteen when he overdosed. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. he overdosed. I don't I wasn't married to him. So I don't I don't have the hospital rights to know what he overdosed with. Yeah. But he was in a coma for three weeks and it was the first time that I was able to tell my kids about his problem. Yeah. And they were Probably like twelve and eight. and I just said, you know, you know, your dad's great, he was wonderful, but you know, he started taking some pills that made him not who he is. This is not who him at all. This is not him. and he's still just such a great person. But sometimes something takes over our body and and this is what's happened. And I didn't think he was gonna make it. I told all my friends, like, pray for the boys, like, it's gonna be a really hard road. It was five days before school started. And I think it was like see, I don't I'm I mean it's like fifth and like seventh grade. It doesn't really matter. But I'm like y'all pray, y'all pray for them that they can go back to school. I rem you know, you always take the first day's school pictures. Yeah. And I literally still to this day look back on that picture and it makes me so sad because the life was so out of the boys, the boys' eyes on on because they were so worried about their dad. Yeah. And we just had it, you know, we just have to keep pushing, pushing, pushing. And after a three-week coma, medically induced coma, like he came out. And he had no recollection at all of yeah of anything. Like he lost all memory of like of course. Yeah. All of that. Yeah. So yeah, that was tough. Yeah. Because everybody else lived it. Yes. So at that point I had to sadly remove all like he couldn't see them at all anymore. Which I hated that because they have a lot of his characteristics and baseball, like he taught them a lot of, you know. He worked with them with baseball when they were l real little and I hated doing that, but I knew it was the right thing. Yeah. Yeah. And so then at that point did he have any like parental rights? No. Okay. At that point they were all removed. Okay. Legally. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause I remember you telling me about I think we talked about that. And Griff like was there Reported and like and just like just was like totally freaked out by the whole thing. Yeah. And just really like watching every move his dad made. Yeah. Like when he had they had visitation with their grandparents with him. Yeah. And he was just so freaked out. Like watching every move. And then he was like, my gosh, my dad just took a beer into the bathroom and he was, you know, texting me and saying, Mom, like I'm I don't feel comfortable. so yeah, I mean he especially like Lily just didn't trust him. Yeah at all. Yeah. I know. But the grandparents were there, but still they they ended up passing away, both of them, probably from Both of his parents did? Yes. In twenty-one and twenty-two, like nine months. I mean, in their sixties, very young. and I you know, stress can do a number on your body. It sure does. And he had a very thriving business, and I think He really, Yeah. They spent a lot of money on their son. Yeah. And taking care of him and trying to make things very good for the to make it seem like everything was fine for the boys, just to have them in their lives. but yeah. Yeah. And he did too, right? Like he really wanted to be better. He wanted to get better, he wanted to do better. Mm. I think he lost it after the coma. Okay. Yeah. I think he lost a lot when his when he was in that in induced coma for three weeks. Yeah. He changed a lot. Okay. But he still was was like a I f I feel like he was still a good person but just didn't know how to function anymore. Okay. Like I would never think he he couldn't hurt a fly. Right. He just got into that. whole opiate crisis that we all read about, we yeah watch TV about, like and yeah terrible. Yeah. Yeah. That has affected so many lives, so many families. Right. From a big pharmaceutical company that really pushed it. So then so that was in twenty eighteen we said? Yeah. Okay. And so then from twenty eighteen until twenty twenty six. Yeah. Right. That's rare enough. So how like what has that looked like? 'Cause that's a eight years. Yeah. Right. So like what's that look like? Mm, not involved. Okay. He lost his parents. not involved at all. Saw him on he wanted to see him on Father's Day, his birthday, and Christmas. Okay. But it was very short lived. Okay. he saw them last Christmas in the in our driveway. for 15 minutes to give them their gift. not paying child support yeah at all. so we just kind of like it was almost easier to go about our ways without him involved. Yeah. so I just think he lost all his his soul. Okay. His soul is just gone. Yeah. I d he wasn't maliciously doing anything wrong. Yeah. He didn't just wasn't there. He just wasn't there. Yeah. And I think he he thought that was a better option. Was it better? For for me, yes. Okay. But that's being very selfish. Right. I think for my kids, like that kind of hurts. Yeah. When your dad doesn't show up. Yeah. You know, and he's this baseball star. Yeah. Through col full ride college. Yeah. Great school, D one school in Texas. Full ride and then you can't even show up for your kids that are playing baseball that are actually doing really well and have the same incredible skills that you have. That you gave them that you gave them. You and it it was the field was literally he could walk there, not drive there, walk there and get there in five minutes. Yeah. And he never showed up. Yeah. But I think it was more of an embarrassment. But again He didn't have a mean bone in his body. But the shame is a it's hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So then fast forward to that he was clean for he he was very adamant about letting everybody know that including the boys that he was clean for two and a half years and he l I guess was struggling the opiate addiction. Obviously that is very hard on all your major organs, especially being in the coma. Yeah. And the overdose, that was very hard. So he he knew he couldn't take anything. He became a diabetic. So he got addicted to Dr. Pepper, drinking Dr. Pepper all the time. Texans and their Dr. Pepper. I know. Yeah. So gross. I hate it. I can't stand it. This is so gross. Sorry. I know. It's so gross. I can't stand I can't scan said it. I'm so glad that you are here. Yeah. Thank you, Caitlin, for showing us your diet coke. Brady Smith would be very happy about your nightcoke. so I think he knew he had to get off. I mean, he's had to quit everything. Yeah. And he's done it, he did a great job with it. Still wasn't involved in the boys' lives. Again, because like a lot of guilt and a lot of shame. Shame. All the stuff. Yeah. didn't feel like he was like accepted or appreciated or like couldn't find his like path in, right? Yes. Yeah. And He ch was trying to get off Doc Dr. Pepper, we now know. and he started taking a over the counter herbal supplement. Yeah. that is sold in vape shops that I now know of. and gas stations called Kratom. Yeah. And I just learned that like so clearly our phones are listening to us. Cause I just got this article today that was like in San Diego, Kratum has been outlawed since twenty sixteen or something. And there's some person that owns eleven shops that's still selling it and they're like cracking down on it and all this kind of stuff. And you're like, wow. Like it's I know, you know. It's bad. So so it's like an opiate analog. Like yes, it acts as an opiate. It kind of creates the same Euphoria. Euphoria. Right? Or like pain relief, euphoria. They say it doesn't have the euphoric I'm pretty sure there's a coyote right there. but it doesn't have the same like euphoric characteristics, but Yeah. It probably does, right? And so yes. Yeah, if you Google it, it's a little scary. And so They're eating the pomegranate. That's right. And the lemons. Yeah, the guy who just reading all my fruits. And the coffee pan. And we're back. And so Yes. I have never heard of this. I've never heard of the Kratom. I've never heard of it at all. Like I have no idea. I'm completely naive about all this stuff. And so my carrier was talking this yesterday. I'm like I don't even know what you're talking about. I didn't either. I don't know. I didn't either until two months ago. Neither did my friend group, nobody. Because like you have to know what you're going to buy. Right. Like you're I'm going to the store to buy Kratom. Yeah. And it's all herbs. And they really say like it's it's a great drug to not drug, an herbal pill that you can take that gives you energy and all this stuff. Yeah. So I think That's what he was looking for because he was having to get off to Dr. Pepper because of his diabetes and all the damage he's done to his organs, but he still was c clean for two and a half years. And that's when he started taking Kratom. Yeah. probably in like March or April. Okay. and that led him to a very, very, very deep depression. Okay. That we now know of. Okay. I knew none of this was going on. Okay. and neither did the boys. They haven't seen him since Christmas. Yeah. So nobody knew. Okay. Nobody really knew like what he was really he was in a very, very, very dark place. And the only thing that I can think of that would get him there was the Kratom. Okay. Because He was he was he was clean and I know that now. Yeah. because his organs were pretty Yeah. Pristine. Yes, pristine. And so let's talk about that. So today is August eighth. And Tommy passed away July twenty No, May. But he was Where's my time gone? He pa he was legally pronounced dead June first. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So And so what happened the week before that? the week before that, on Wednesday, He was remarried. Yeah. and she I guess reported him as a missing person. Okay. On a Wednesday. On a Wednesday. Okay. The boys texted him randomly on Thursday and he didn't respond and it it didn't go delivered because he has an iPhone and he's he's not a a gr a green message person like you. Like an Android girl. He's not an Android girl. So they were like my dad it didn't deliver. They try to call them and they started weirdly like like I mean they haven't talked to him forever and this happened. Day after. So his wife called me and said, Hey, the boys were texting me. I haven't heard from him since yesterday. So I reported him missing. And so on Friday, some flocking cameras, flock, flock flock cameras. I've heard about this. Flock. I never knew about him until now. I know cameras like will literally like pick up your license plate. Yeah. And it's literally to chase like criminals down or whatever. Yeah. So the flawed cameras picked him up several times around Left Field in Dallas. And and how did you figure that out? Because they were reporting all this to Jennifer, his wife. So she a did she ask for it? Yeah, because she reported him missing. Okay. Okay. So I said, okay, so are you gonna go around Lovefield? Yeah. are you gonna go like look for him around Love Field? Yeah. And she was like, I I don't know. I mean, she's Danish, like she's super nervous about getting out of anywhere. Yeah. And I told my husband, John, I said, you know what? This sounds weird. Yeah. Look up all the cheap hotels, motels. I'm gonna go look for him. I'm gonna do it for the boys. Yeah. So I go look for him on Friday night. I'm not kidding you. It's a God thing. He is like the best human. I'm not kidding you, y'all. This is God thing. I wanna write a book about it. I he gives me like eight motels. And I said, Okay, John, he's driving. I said, pull into the first one. Pull into the first one. I see his car. Okay, these are like gross, really gross like motels. And all the doors are on the outside. Yeah. And I literally park and I walk upstairs and the first door I knock on, he answers. Not I'm not joking. Like at all. And I s he said, What are you doing here? And I said, I'm here like what are you doing here? I said, I'm here. I'm here. I'm here to save you again. Yeah. Cause you've been missing since Wednesday. And I'm I came to find you for your kids. And I called his wife and I said, I'm not putting him in my car because he was a mess. and she came. We waited there for 45 minutes. I I FaceTime the boys. They cried. They told him how much they loved him and that they wanted him to be better. And we got him back. I have not told you all this. No. We got him back 40 minutes south of Dallas to where we all live and took him to the hospital. He wouldn't get out of the car. I told her to take him home and call 911 and tell them that he just took a lot of kratom because he told me that. Yeah. and by the time she got him home, he was unresponsive. and they took him the the she called nine one one and they came and picked him up and took him to the hospital. He told him he wanted he was done. He wanted to kill himself. She told him or she told them that he wanted to kill himself and they released him at five AM that morning. But he has a history at that hospital. Not the last two years, but he has a history at that hospital for being an addict and coming in and stabilizing him. without because he switched alcohol. Yeah. so they released him at five AM on Saturday. On Saturday morning. They went home. She called me at one PM and said I literally got in the shower and he took the keys and I called the Midlothian police department and they started tracking his phone. He went to Wagsachy. He bought four guns and came home. Four. Not one. Four. Yeah. Came home. Walked in the backyard. Sorry, I don't to laugh. I'm like the like who buys four guns? Okay. Four. Four. Okay. Also, I bought a gun in Texas. No, you can't buy I bought one, but it like I had like do the whole thing. I had to like Fill out a whole thing. No. And then I had to come back a couple weeks later to pick it up. No. Not anymore. Okay. Apparently I went to the wrong place. Not anymore. It's a problem. Okay. Why do you why do you need to buy four? Dunno. So he came home and he took his own life in the backyard. And she called me and I got there and they were doing C PR on him. They kept him alive. care flight into Dallas. He did. While she was in the shower. No. Like she called the police like after God. Okay. She realized like she just took a shower, came out, and he grabbed the keys and he left. And they tracked him all the way to fifteen minutes away, was was which was in Waxatchie. And they tracked him the whole way. If if she wouldn't have done that, they wouldn't have been able to render aid and do C PR. They got his heart beating He died three times. and they were able to get him stable enough to care flight him to Dallas. So when we got to Dallas, you know me, I'm very like, just tell me everything. Yeah. You know, tell me everything. And 'cause she didn't the wife didn't, he she was like, my gosh. And I'm like, no. I pulled the doctor aside and I said, I need to know. And he said, He's intubated. He is if if if if we innovat anybody and we don't sedate them, they're completely brain dead. Like so, we I knew that night he was gone. Yeah. We're Catholic, called a priest, yeah, got the priest there, he anointed him. It was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life. Fast forward, I went and had to clean his car out because the wife can't do anything. She's yeah, she's not from here and sh yeah sh she can't do anything. And there's a lot. So I went and cleaned his car out and the phone that had had been dead since Tuesday. I found it like you know how like in the front seat, like your vents, like go under when you clean your car and you vacuum your car, like the vents go underneath the seat and they go to the back. Yeah. I found it in that vent. Yeah. And I got it out and I plugged it in and I mean I was married to him for ten years, so I kinda knew his password. Yeah. And I put it in and I looked at Men they don't change they don't change. No. Yeah. And I pulled up his search history. Yeah. And the search history was how much Kratom do I have to take to for it to be lethal. And As a Catholic, if I take my own life, how can I get to heaven? And it was last rites. And so it all happened like like God had such he has been struggling since he was twenty two years old because of opiates. Yeah. and but God had his way in the entire thing. Yeah. And he I believe he's at peace now because it's been a true struggle. And he was forty six years old. And he was my soulmate. I he was love in my life. I see him so much in my voice. And he's a was an incredible human. And opiates literally took him away from us. And like I know that God protected him and all of that and how he played out and how he wanted me to find him. Because his wife wasn't gonna do it. And I I went to Which no fault of your own. Like right. Like it's just it's just But he is at peace now. If we are b true believers, like he is at peace now. And I told the boys, like you will get to see him. in all his beauty that he was when I married him again one day. And where you can appreciate like truly who he was. But the Obiats are literally taking they took control of so many innocent people that aren't addicts. Right. They are not they were not addicts. They weren't they weren't like bad people looking for something. No, they weren't. Like it's all like You know, it's hereditary, all this stuff, but like the opiates literally like took hold of so many people that were good, wonderful people that weren't looking to to be addicts. And I'm so glad that the triplicate system, all these things that really like went into dentistry, yeah, that kept den I mean, I know it's I mean, I know they still have to prescribe those, but for dentistry, I know not oral surgery, but Dentistry of there's no reason to prescribe opiates for just general dentistry. No. And they were being pres when I graduated in twenty one or not twenty one. Two thousand one. A long time ago. They were writing them left and right for like the first five years. Like, give Bikodin. They had a filling. yeah. They had a crown, like a reconal, like That thank God that is gone. Yeah. Doctors don't want to do it anymore because they don't want to go through the hassle. And I'm so yeah. I'm so grateful for that. So Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like it's crazy because there's sometimes like where you're like, shoot, you're really in pain. And like I don't want to prescribe you this. Like I don't. I know. Because I know that this is an acute pain. It will go. It's not a chronic thing. And even if it was a chronic thing, I wouldn't want to do it anyway. But like acute pain, like I don't like, I'm so hesitant to prescribe it to you. I'm like, let's figure out another way. You know, because even like when I was in dental school and applying for residency, and Dr. Abbacher, who's at VCU, his son died. His son was addicted to opiates. And so he like he talks so much about this. And like, if an oral surgeon's son can get addicted to it after having his wisdom teeth out, like it can happen to literally anybody. Anyone? Yeah. And it ruins her life. And it ruins everyone's life. Everybody's life. And like the ripple effect is so insane. It is. It is. And the stress that it causes so many people that are They're trying to cover it up. Right. Like his parents. They c tried so hard to cover it up. And try to fix it. Try to they they'll spend their whole life savings on rehab. Yes. Like insane. It's insane. And that's why, like, sorry, like pharmaceutical companies, like it's it's about money. It is. I hate to say that. I'm just saying, like, yeah. It's from this what can we do to make more money? Like let's put out more commercials, let's do this, let's do this, let's do this. Is that what's what's really that's trying to be healthy? Yeah. Are you trying to get people healthier or are you trying to like just make money? Yeah. Like, well, shoot, that's the wrong But we need to rethink a lot of health care in the United States. Yeah, we do. We do. Corporations, pharma, like it's it's kind of it's tough. Yeah. A tough battle for people that are went into healthcare. Right. Just to take care of people. Right. To make a feel better. To be better. Yeah. And everybody is different. We treat everybody as an individual. Right. And not a a group of of people. Yeah. So. Yeah. Well thanks. Sorry, I've never I haven't told you the story. It's okay. It just happened two months ago. So I'm sorry. Yeah. That's all right. That's good. I'm like just really sorry. It's okay. I'm really sorry. I mean, like you when you first texted me and you're like, all this is happening. And I was like, gosh, that's so weird. I was just thinking, like, I wonder if Tommy and the boys, like I wonder if Griff and Tommy have like I wonder how their relationship is. Like literally that doesn't cross my mind like ever. And literally it happened like that day. And you text me and I was like, Well, that's gone. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. He makes you he makes But that's the ripple effect too, right? Like why would I ever even even be thinking about that? Yeah. Right? It's insane. It is. Yeah. And so I think it's important that we talk about it. I think it's important that we talk about like the effects that it has on the families and on like the stuff because like shit. Yeah. It's a lot. Yeah. And it's not just bystanders. It's not. It's like real people. It's real people with real features that just get totally obliterated. Yes. So and you know, I think I think he's finally at peace. Yeah. I I really believe that in my heart. But I think he would have been at peace if it was never part of the equation. absolutely. Yeah. He's not he's not an addictive person, like at all. Yeah. Yeah. But when you when you take him to get through an injury, It was his last year of baseball, which he had a full ride. And he had a knee injury from a ski accident. and he knew that he could get through his last year of eligibility taking these pills. Yeah. and that really is what yeah got him addicted. Yeah. So yeah. Just kept doing it. Yeah. Yeah. And then and your body just needs more and more and more. Right. When we he checked into rehab, he was taking twenty-eight. So yeah. Twenty eight a day. Yeah. And he was totally fine. I you can't tell. When peop somebody's taken him, you can't tell. Because your body just gets so used to him. Yeah. So Yeah. And so I think like, truth be told when I'm getting in this practice and like signing up for stuff, I'm like, do I really need this? Because I'm really just truly prescribing people Motron, Tylenol, and antibiotics. You know, like I don't need all I need. I don't need any of these like scheduled stuff, right? But like, but sometimes it's okay. And I'll prescribe like five. Well, we're And they're like, I need more. And I'm like, you don't. You don't need more, right? But when you do a LaFort and that, like I'm not doing that. Yeah, I'm taking out wisdom teeth. Which is like, you know, but if I was able to have a C section and you literally cut through my entire abdomen, right? No, it's time you need them at times. Sure. Yep. But not for a sprained knee. Right. That's what happened. He needed no surgery when he had this ski accident. Yeah. And they gave him forty. Yeah. Forty had tricodes. Yeah. But I remember like That's what they did. Right. Fillings, everything. Yeah. You got just bicotin. Just got it all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And those reps were the best. They came in and brought all the stuff. Yeah. And so and they gave us prescription pads that they were already written out. Yeah. And all the doctor had to do was just sign their name. Yeah. Easy, right? Yeah. Super easy. But they made it easy because they knew they knew how addicting it was. But still families it's still in our generation and families are suffering. And it's still getting prescribed, right? Because like it's still happening. I mean, even Erin right now like has her broken back and is like on exotics and is on muscle relaxes and it's like but like Where does it end? Like, no, how can I fix this? Because like she has to still like get back to being a functional human, a functional oral surgeon, a functional mom, like bending, moving, doing all the things. And like this makes it better right in in this moment, but it it doesn't. Yeah. And so it's still there. And like we just have to figure out a way forward. And I don't know what it is, but it's not the way that it was. No, and I know your family is struggling from it. I think we've advanced past it. I I do. I really still there though. But we still have to have those drugs. Even when Griffin, my 17 year old, broke his collarbone a year and a half ago in six places. He was so scared. Right. When we went to the ER. He was like, I don't want to take any medication for it. And the doctor's like, But you, you, your blood pressure will go up ever, you know, like. Everything will happen if you don't get ahead of your pain. Yeah. And he was like, No, my dad is an opiate addict. And he told the doctor that. And he was like, I don't want to take these. And the doctor sat him down. He's like, There is a reason that we prescribe these drugs. But that's the thing, right? It's education. Right. And it when the doctor sat him down and said that, it was a different thing. And he said, As soon as you go to surgery, then you're gonna feel a lot better and then you you're gonna be fixed and then you can get off of these. We gotta put you on a plane. We gotta fly you back to Dallas. Yeah. Like you have to be on some pain medications so your blood pressure doesn't go through the roof because yeah you're in so much pain. Yeah. And he finally agreed to it. But as soon as he got out of surgery, he's he stopped. He was like I'm not as like a seventeen year old kid, you're like, these are not things you need to be worrying about. But he is so scared. But he is. Because it has affected him so much. Yeah. Yeah. well hopefully we find a way forward. Right. Mm-hmm. And now your family heals. Yes. Thank you. Sorry to spring all this on you. No. On your podcast. That's what we're here for. All right. Well, thank you for joining us today, tonight, on an episode of Rest Usage Space Podcast with the coyotes and whoever else is joining us today. So we'll see you soon. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye. Bye.