Latest / Early Edition with Ryan Bridge / John Howard: Retired Major General and NZ Initiative Senior Fellow on their warning about the state of New Zealand's warships

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John Howard: Retired Major General and NZ Initiative Senior Fellow on their warning about the state of New Zealand's warships · Early Edition with Ryan Bridge

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Our retired major general says, our two main warships are
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: going to reach the end of their working lives within
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: a decade. What's more, cabinet muster side by twenty twenty seven, Yes,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: that's next year. What we should do to replace them?
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: John G. Howard, retired Major General and New Zealand Initiative
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: senior faally with me this morning. John, Good morning, good morning, right,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: nice to have you on the program. So where are
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: we at with this decision to replace them?
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Well, the decision will be placed before cabinet very shortly.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I'd imagine it's not this year, then early next year,
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: and then the nation will need to make some hard decisions.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: We're talking here about Takaha and Tamana.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: That's correct, the two current frigates that we have.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: What do they do? What do we need them to do?
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Well? As a maritime trading nation, they offer a range
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: of support to us. But in essence it means that
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: we are able to take part in securing our own
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: economic exclusion zone, which includes our search and rescue area
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: which is a little bit bigger than our economic exclusion zone,
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: to participate in a range of operations from diplomatic through
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: to constabulary and up to an including warfare operations both
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: close to home and globally, and have done for many years.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Realistically with two of them if war came, how useful
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  Speaker 1: would we be?
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Well the paper that I'm about to release this afternoon
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: through the initiative will will highlight that two really is
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: not a capability. The challenge you have when you have
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: two warships is you've got to do maintenance, both short
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: and long term, and you've got to be able to
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: rotate your crew. There was a decision that was made
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: some time ago. The country now has an option to
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: think quite broadly about what maritime capabilities do we want
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: and how do we defend our national interests.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: How many do you think we need? John Well, if.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: We're going to be serious about maintaining a bluewater capability,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: I think four is the minimum number that would allow
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: that to occur. And that figure is going to be
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: quite confrontational to the cabinet table and to the nation.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Really think about what the cost of defenses, because in
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: my mind, the cost of defense is not a percentage
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: of GDP discussion. It's how do we defend our national interests?
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: And that's not just the job of New Zealand Defense Force.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: It's a whole of government and indeed a whole of society. Job.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: How much would four of these bad boys set us back?
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure I've got the answer to that, because
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: the decision will depend on which one you buy and
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: the systems that you buy. A frigate is a system
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: of systems, So we're going to have to think long
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: and hard about how do we refuel it, where do
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: we repair it? At the moment, we don't have a
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: dedicated dry dock capability in New Zealand. There's a range
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: of deeper discussions and it would be my hope that
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: we're able to allow this discussion to go into the
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: public domain, something we haven't done for decades.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Step one would be not crashing them right, keep what
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: we've got. What about and this is a serious question
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: about sea drones. I mean, how much do they play?
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Do we need our traditional frigates and still needed in
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: the modern warfare era?
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's for a really good question. So we're
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: in the information age and the technology age. What we've
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: seen in Ukraine and the Maritime operation and elsewhere tells
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: us that uncrude systems and then the use of open
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: source technology and smart systems as we're seeing other nations
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: heavily invest in, are all part of a layered defense system.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: And if we're using the concept of a drone via
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: that subsurface, surface or air, then that gives us early
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: warning and indication and that would allow us to look
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: broadly without having to put a capital ship, as it were,
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: into harm's way for certain events. That would also mean
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: that we have to think differently about data because drones
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: capture data, and in the information age, that means how
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: do we integrate data to secure our national interests And
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: that's a deeper discussion because we still don't have a
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: data strategy in New Zealand.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Interesting stuff, John a lot on the table, John g
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: how they retired Mate to General New Zealand initiative. Seen
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: you Fellow for.
• 4:03
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• 4:06
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• 4:09
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