Latest / The You Project / #1709 A Phantom, A Goal-Keeper & A Bogan Walk Into A Bar.. - Josh Piterman & Bianca Chatfield (PT2)

Transcript

#1709 A Phantom, A Goal-Keeper & A Bogan Walk Into A Bar.. - Josh Piterman & Bianca Chatfield (PT2) · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: I'll get our team hope you bloody terrific. This is
0:03
Speaker 1: part two of the conversation between Josh Pittman and Bianca
0:08
Speaker 1: Chatfield and myself from behind the mask Josh's show. We're
0:13
Speaker 1: doing a bit of a co share here on the
0:15
Speaker 1: You Project. This is part two. If you haven't enjoyed,
0:18
Speaker 1: if you haven't enjoyed, if you haven't listened apart one,
0:21
Speaker 1: you might want to backtrack, but it probably doesn't matter
0:23
Speaker 1: because they're different topics and different conversations. But anyway, here's
0:27
Speaker 1: the second bit. Enjoy You know what's interesting about what
0:32
Speaker 1: the anchor was talking about, which was that kind of
0:34
Speaker 1: three sixty feedback that you were talking about, which is
0:37
Speaker 1: where they sit in front of a group that's really
0:41
Speaker 1: rooted in so when we think about how we think
0:45
Speaker 1: and why we think the way that we do. You
0:47
Speaker 1: and I have spoken about this hanging out. It's called
0:49
Speaker 1: metacognition is thinking about thinking and then So that's a
0:53
Speaker 1: real area of psychology's thinking about how you think and
0:56
Speaker 1: why you think the way that you do. This is
0:58
Speaker 1: a real self awareness door opening where you're like, oh,
1:01
Speaker 1: this is what I'm thinking and feeling. Now why where
1:04
Speaker 1: does this thought come from. Where does this story come from?
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Speaker 1: Does it serve me or sabotage me? Is it based
1:09
Speaker 1: in fear? Does it make sense?
1:11
Speaker 2: Right?
1:11
Speaker 1: And then the next layer up in the self awareness
1:14
Speaker 1: kind of pyramid from there is called theory of mind,
1:17
Speaker 1: which is you understanding how other people think. So that's
1:20
Speaker 1: the you understanding your teammates. And it's not about agreeing
1:23
Speaker 1: or align aligning or condoning. It's just understanding. Like when
1:28
Speaker 1: I work without X and alcoholics, which I do, I
1:31
Speaker 1: understand them well now because I've done it a lot,
1:34
Speaker 1: but I've never had drugs and I've never had booze.
1:37
Speaker 1: So for me, it was a matter of trying to
1:39
Speaker 1: understand their version of life and their version of reality
1:43
Speaker 1: and so addicted.
1:44
Speaker 2: To not having it. Yeah, so you understand that from
1:46
Speaker 2: the sure.
1:49
Speaker 1: But when you understand, like how someone else thinks, it's
1:54
Speaker 1: almost like you learn their language. It's like I know
1:59
Speaker 1: how to speak which is my dad, and I know
2:02
Speaker 1: how to speak Mary, which is my mum. But if
2:04
Speaker 1: I speak Ron to Mary, it doesn't work, and vice versa,
2:08
Speaker 1: because I know how Dad thinks, I know how mum thinks.
2:11
Speaker 1: I know how athletes think. But also I know even
2:14
Speaker 1: when I was working with you know, Melbourne Phoenix and Vixen's.
2:16
Speaker 1: For a minute, Bianca was different to other athletes, and
2:21
Speaker 1: so what I could say to her I couldn't say
2:24
Speaker 1: to someone else. So if I wanted the same outcome,
2:26
Speaker 1: I might need two strategies. And I think one of
2:30
Speaker 1: the mistakes that we make in high performance broadly and
2:35
Speaker 1: the pursuit of success, is that we think there's a
2:37
Speaker 1: three step plan. So when people go to me, what's
2:41
Speaker 1: the best way to X y Z, I go for who, though,
2:47
Speaker 1: because the best way because my best career path would
2:49
Speaker 1: be your worst. My best diet, you know, I ate
2:53
Speaker 1: two meals a day, breakfast and dinner. But would I
2:55
Speaker 1: recommend that for you, I would not, because you're not me.
2:58
Speaker 1: You don't have my body sixty, you don't have my physiology,
3:03
Speaker 1: you know. And so it's trying to figure out because
3:05
Speaker 1: you think about the fact that one, our body is
3:08
Speaker 1: always telling us something, it's a biofeedback system. And two,
3:12
Speaker 1: if we go think of our life as an ongoing
3:15
Speaker 1: experiment and equals one and you're the experimenter and you're
3:18
Speaker 1: the experiment you well, we're always producing data. And if
3:23
Speaker 1: we turn down the emotion. I know I sound like
3:25
Speaker 1: a PhD student. But if you turn down the emotion
3:28
Speaker 1: and try and figure out what is my life telling me,
3:30
Speaker 1: what are my results telling me, what is my body
3:32
Speaker 1: telling me, what's my career telling me, what's my bank
3:35
Speaker 1: balance telling me? And trying to do that with real
3:38
Speaker 1: awareness and humility and real curiosity, like, actually, what is that?
3:45
Speaker 2: You know?
3:46
Speaker 1: Like when people go what's her problem, they don't really
3:48
Speaker 1: want an answer. They're not really saying, what is her problem?
3:51
Speaker 1: What is her story? What's happened? How can I help?
3:56
Speaker 1: Really that's an insult. What's her problem? It's like she's
3:58
Speaker 1: an idiot. You must all say the same thing. And
4:01
Speaker 1: so that opening that door on trying to understand yourself.
4:06
Speaker 1: And the tricky thing with self analysis is that you're
4:09
Speaker 1: trying to analyze the contents of your mind with your mind.
4:14
Speaker 1: You know, you're thinking about your own thinking with your
4:17
Speaker 1: own thinking.
4:18
Speaker 2: And so.
4:20
Speaker 1: Going through life, I think realizing that we're looking at
4:24
Speaker 1: whatever it is situation, conversation, challenge, sporting career, singing career,
4:31
Speaker 1: we're looking at everything through the Josh lens or the
4:35
Speaker 1: Craig lens or the Bianca lens. And having that awareness,
4:39
Speaker 1: Like realizing that you lack awareness is like the beginning
4:42
Speaker 1: of awareness. Absolutely, It's like recognizing your unconsciousness is the
4:48
Speaker 1: beginning of consciousness, you know. And it's I think, and
4:52
Speaker 1: this is deep, but I think it's that intersection of
4:55
Speaker 1: sociology and psychology and spirituality where the stuff happens, not
5:01
Speaker 1: one or the other, all of it, and philosophy, philosophy
5:04
Speaker 1: and even physiology, because there's there's a physiological consequence to
5:08
Speaker 1: a thought. If you think you're in danger but you're
5:11
Speaker 1: not well, stuff happens in your body, you know.
5:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, we talk a lot about this expansion awareness on
5:19
Speaker 2: the show, and really I think we talk about it
5:22
Speaker 2: because that is what is behind the mask, you know,
5:26
Speaker 2: and at a spiritual level, behind you know, the mask
5:29
Speaker 2: is the roles we play, the thoughts we have and
5:31
Speaker 2: all these sort of things. There is a space beyond that,
5:34
Speaker 2: and that space is awareness. But once we have that awareness,
5:37
Speaker 2: it's not about going I've got to ditch the mask.
5:39
Speaker 2: In fact, to pull on the thread of what you
5:41
Speaker 2: were talking about with Mary and Ryan and Bianca, it's
5:45
Speaker 2: about going, Ah, I can put on a little thin
5:47
Speaker 2: mask here that serves this conversation, and so we know
5:52
Speaker 2: how to be a chameleon in certain ways or wear
5:55
Speaker 2: these different masks for different engagements that we have because
5:59
Speaker 2: it serves it. But we're doing it through awareness, not
6:02
Speaker 2: through I'm just going to people. Please, I'm just gonna
6:04
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do this for this person, this person, and
6:06
Speaker 2: you're just sort of it's it's unconscious master, and there's
6:09
Speaker 2: this this different thing. Guys. I want to shoot back
6:13
Speaker 2: to a topic that has been plowing through my head, which.
6:17
Speaker 3: Is another p.
6:20
Speaker 2: Which is that you talked about growing up and this
6:23
Speaker 2: thing about being you know, six foot two and what
6:25
Speaker 2: that that was like for you and Craig. You talked
6:29
Speaker 2: about growing up and being a beast kid.
6:33
Speaker 4: You what are you laughing at? You're literally laughing. I've
6:37
Speaker 4: heard that therapy.
6:39
Speaker 5: I've heard the story so many times. It just makes
6:43
Speaker 5: me laugh because I love how he tells.
6:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I want to. I want to. I want
6:49
Speaker 2: to hear this because our listeners, you know, might might
6:53
Speaker 2: not know your stories and and how these sort.
6:55
Speaker 3: Of should I leave in this moment?
6:59
Speaker 2: No, no, you here, you know your need for this? Sure? Yeah?
7:04
Speaker 2: How these you know, because I've had physical stuff too.
7:06
Speaker 2: That's really yeah, really, it really affected me as well,
7:11
Speaker 2: you know, speak about it in last week's episode. So yeah,
7:16
Speaker 2: how do these physical attributes play into your feeling of
7:22
Speaker 2: not enoughness? And how that not not enoughness is, which
7:27
Speaker 2: is really an epidemic at the moment, plays into abya
7:31
Speaker 2: that the idea that I can't be successful because I'm
7:35
Speaker 2: inherently not enough because of the way I am. Did
7:37
Speaker 2: you guys have these sort of shame stories around your
7:40
Speaker 2: your physical appearance?
7:41
Speaker 4: Jumpo.
7:43
Speaker 1: I will say, though, I wasn't really bullied, and that
7:45
Speaker 1: sounds really no.
7:46
Speaker 2: So where does jumbo come from that?
7:48
Speaker 1: I know that sounds like bullying, but like my mates
7:52
Speaker 1: called me jumbo. Really some of the teachers call me jumbo,
7:55
Speaker 1: My coaches call me jumbo.
7:57
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like for me, it wasn't it.
8:00
Speaker 1: There's more other stuff, like within the context of my
8:03
Speaker 1: friends and family, there was no obviously no bullying, but
8:06
Speaker 1: you know, there was obviously like I was a big kid,
8:10
Speaker 1: like I was probably thirty thirty five kilos overweight, so
8:14
Speaker 1: I wasn't a little bit chubby like I was.
8:16
Speaker 4: I was obese, and so there were consequences of that.
8:20
Speaker 1: But it was more that I just hated how I
8:22
Speaker 1: looked and felt and I knew that, And I mean,
8:26
Speaker 1: like when you're fourteen, it the biggest thing in your
8:28
Speaker 1: life is the biggest thing in your life, Like you
8:30
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's like you don't like looking
8:32
Speaker 1: back now at what I understand to be real problems,
8:36
Speaker 1: you know, and what is going on in the world.
8:39
Speaker 1: I look back at, you know, fat little me, and
8:41
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, really in the overall scheme, but things
8:43
Speaker 1: that was nothing, but.
8:44
Speaker 4: You don't know that, you know. So for me, there
8:47
Speaker 4: was just.
8:49
Speaker 1: Psychological, sociological, emotional, and you know, physiological kind of crap
8:55
Speaker 1: that intersected. And I hate to bankle with this, but
8:58
Speaker 1: for me, it came to a head at the year
9:01
Speaker 1: eight swimming sports, which was where I really every time
9:05
Speaker 1: the swimming sports happened. I went to a private boys school.
9:08
Speaker 1: We had to swim, we had participate, didn't matter if
9:10
Speaker 1: you're the best or the worst. Everyone swims, everyone runs
9:13
Speaker 1: on sports day. And so every time it was my
9:16
Speaker 1: turn to swim, like my event would come because you know,
9:19
Speaker 1: they had group A through to group whatever, H me
9:24
Speaker 1: and I would go and I would hide, so I
9:27
Speaker 1: would literally go somewhere so I couldn't be found and
9:30
Speaker 1: just make up some crap like I wasn't feeling well
9:33
Speaker 1: or whatever. So the event would come and go and
9:35
Speaker 1: I would miss it. And this particular year, my sports
9:38
Speaker 1: teacher was kind of onto it and he grabbed me
9:42
Speaker 1: before I headed off. I headed off, he grabbed me
9:45
Speaker 1: and said, you got to swim. And so I remember
9:49
Speaker 1: standing up there. I was fourteen, it was year eight,
9:51
Speaker 1: Saint Paul's Catholic College. It's algan and no one did
9:54
Speaker 1: anything wrong, like nobody was but I remember having to
9:57
Speaker 1: stand up there on the swimming block and there was
10:00
Speaker 1: I don't know, all the school. So what's that six
10:02
Speaker 1: seven hundred kids and a bunch of parents and a
10:04
Speaker 1: bunch of teachers, maybe a thousand people, And this sounds ridiculous,
10:09
Speaker 1: but I just remember being absolutely beyond my imagination humiliated
10:16
Speaker 1: and embarrassed and shamed, and so that that was horrible,
10:24
Speaker 1: but it was also the catalyst. It's like I came
10:27
Speaker 1: home and I went for a run. I've never been.
10:29
Speaker 1: I'd never been for a run. And when I say run,
10:32
Speaker 1: I covered five k's and four of it was walking,
10:35
Speaker 1: but I walked, jog walked, jogged, and literally from that day,
10:40
Speaker 1: within four months, I lost thirty kilos from that day. Yeah,
10:44
Speaker 1: because I offer I think that sometimes that real psychological, emotional, behavioral,
10:50
Speaker 1: and practical shift happens off the back of an event
10:54
Speaker 1: like something, Yeah, there's an inner switch that turns on
10:59
Speaker 1: or flecks or a light bulbile, whatever metaphor we want
11:01
Speaker 1: to use. But yeah, I just went, not, that's I'm
11:04
Speaker 1: never doing that again. That's never happening again. I'm never
11:07
Speaker 1: nuh And I just went it didn't matter. So I
11:09
Speaker 1: literally halved my food and I just ran every day.
11:13
Speaker 1: I didn't I had no idea what I was doing.
11:14
Speaker 1: I didn't know how to train. I did push up
11:16
Speaker 1: sit ups and ran. That's what I did. And then
11:18
Speaker 1: when I could, then I was light enough and strong
11:20
Speaker 1: enough to do chins. I incorporated chins and that I
11:23
Speaker 1: did push up sit ups chins run on repeat three
11:26
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty five days of the year. I became
11:28
Speaker 1: an absolute maniac.
11:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, so went total.
11:33
Speaker 1: I went from yeah, like completely unhealthy and unfit to obsessed.
11:39
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I did the same the same thing, and
11:43
Speaker 2: it had to you know, work through that relationship. But
11:47
Speaker 2: it also sparked, like how interesting that that that sparked
11:52
Speaker 2: a whole career around yeah, fitness and health and bodybuilding
12:00
Speaker 2: and all sorts of stuff, but it also in helping yourself.
12:03
Speaker 2: Even though extreme, it led you to a path of helping.
12:07
Speaker 2: And that's a beautiful sort of synergy and story in
12:12
Speaker 2: it or the book end of it.
12:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, something really good came out of it. And
12:16
Speaker 1: it was good because I mean, I was obsessive, and
12:18
Speaker 1: I was insecure, and I had low self esteem and
12:20
Speaker 1: big ego and all of those things. And I got
12:23
Speaker 1: the like the burger with the emotional burger with a lot,
12:28
Speaker 1: and I got my sense of self and from what
12:32
Speaker 1: I looked like. And then by the time I was
12:34
Speaker 1: fifteen sixteen, I looked relatively good compared to the previous version.
12:39
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, you're not socially invisible.
12:41
Speaker 1: Then you get a girlfriend, then you can actually run,
12:43
Speaker 1: and you get picked for sporting teams.
12:46
Speaker 4: And so that's the good.
12:47
Speaker 1: But the bad is you then correlate this, Oh well,
12:51
Speaker 1: if I look like this, I get these outcomes. If
12:54
Speaker 1: I look a bit better and run a bit better,
12:56
Speaker 1: and I get the there's like this, you know, linear correlation.
13:01
Speaker 1: When this goes better, that goes better. And then you think, well,
13:05
Speaker 1: imagine if I was an absolute freak, you know, and
13:08
Speaker 1: so you start to look for everything I did anyway
13:12
Speaker 1: through my body. So I created this real unhealthy relationship
13:15
Speaker 1: with my body where I didn't know where it finished
13:19
Speaker 1: and I started.
13:20
Speaker 2: And this is where the yeah, going back to the
13:22
Speaker 2: mask and the ego, really, it's where when we when
13:25
Speaker 2: we when we feed it, that that stuff, it takes
13:29
Speaker 2: on a life of its own, and it's very becomes very,
13:32
Speaker 2: very thick, and it's very hard to have that self
13:35
Speaker 2: awareness or to crack into that space of a selfness
13:38
Speaker 2: to see that within yourself, because you know this, this
13:42
Speaker 2: is just what happens to start when we get When
13:44
Speaker 2: we do that, the thing that you're doing is getting
13:48
Speaker 2: getting hotter, getting more money, getting the bigger house, and
13:51
Speaker 2: we get fed the compliment or we get another pay rise,
13:54
Speaker 2: and it just keeps feeding, it feeds that. Yeah, the
13:58
Speaker 2: addiction feeds are not enoughness epidemic.
14:00
Speaker 3: I honestly think it's a thing for everyone.
14:01
Speaker 5: I reckon if everyone dug deep on what controls them
14:05
Speaker 5: or what motivates them or what you know, feels like
14:08
Speaker 5: it has to be an obsession for them to just
14:10
Speaker 5: kind of navigate through life. I reckon when I look
14:13
Speaker 5: back at my career, the worst thing that I did,
14:17
Speaker 5: in the worst trait that I had was comparing myself
14:20
Speaker 5: to other people because not really, yes, I understood my
14:25
Speaker 5: body to a certain degree, but you're constantly getting that feedback.
14:28
Speaker 5: And we spoke how that feedback can be really good,
14:30
Speaker 5: but you're constantly getting that feedback about you need to
14:32
Speaker 5: be fitter, you need to be stronger, you need to
14:34
Speaker 5: be leaner, and you're hearing that all the time because
14:37
Speaker 5: people are wanting you to be the best high performance
14:39
Speaker 5: athlete you can be, and you know, play the best
14:42
Speaker 5: you can possibly be when you're out there. And I
14:44
Speaker 5: think I got really caught in that negative spiral of
14:48
Speaker 5: looking to the person next to me who had a
14:49
Speaker 5: totally different body but might have, you know, played a
14:52
Speaker 5: great game, and I'd be like, oh, she's leaner, faster, stronger, How.
14:55
Speaker 3: Am I going to do that?
14:57
Speaker 5: And rather than it took me a lot long time
15:00
Speaker 5: to really be narrowed down for me what I needed
15:04
Speaker 5: and what my body needed and how I could look
15:06
Speaker 5: after my body and train my body rather than trying
15:09
Speaker 5: to be like somebody else. And you know, I was
15:12
Speaker 5: in the Aussie team and I was still comparing myself
15:14
Speaker 5: to everybody else because you have this pressure on you
15:17
Speaker 5: and you're at selections to make the team. And I
15:19
Speaker 5: was a defender, and so you'd look at all the
15:21
Speaker 5: other defenders who might have been playing better or getting
15:23
Speaker 5: a start over you, and you were just analyzing them
15:26
Speaker 5: about what it was that they had over you. And
15:30
Speaker 5: once I think I could strip all that back, and
15:32
Speaker 5: you surrounded yourself with good people like Craigo, with someone
15:35
Speaker 5: for me who i'd always go to and be like, oh,
15:37
Speaker 5: I just download everything and say this is what it's
15:40
Speaker 5: like and how am I going to get like this?
15:42
Speaker 5: And you know, he would know what my body needed
15:45
Speaker 5: and help me with my body and not compare myself
15:48
Speaker 5: to everybody else. But that's what I really struggled with.
15:50
Speaker 5: I'm not a naturally gifted, freakish athlete. I had to
15:53
Speaker 5: train my ass off to be fit enough to play
15:55
Speaker 5: at that level. But where it got scary for me,
15:59
Speaker 5: I think was I would overtrain and I ended up
16:02
Speaker 5: with things like my injuries ended up being things like
16:04
Speaker 5: having glandular fever. And because my body and my health
16:07
Speaker 5: I could, I couldn't cope with how much pressure I
16:09
Speaker 5: was trying.
16:10
Speaker 2: To put on it. Yeah, that's the body telling you to.
16:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, stop, like just calm down.
16:14
Speaker 5: And so over the years, and I had seventeen years
16:19
Speaker 5: in athlete life, and my last probably four or five
16:23
Speaker 5: is probably when I felt like I was in such
16:25
Speaker 5: a calmer place where I knew that I was in
16:28
Speaker 5: this team because of what I brought to the table,
16:31
Speaker 5: not because of you know, how I needed to change
16:34
Speaker 5: or who else I needed to be like or look
16:36
Speaker 5: like that I could still get the job done with
16:38
Speaker 5: my body.
16:39
Speaker 2: So comparison, which is the thief, so eavil thief of joy, Yeah,
16:45
Speaker 2: it was. Yeah, that's like diminished, that dissolved, And that's
16:51
Speaker 2: part of the reason why those last half decade.
16:53
Speaker 5: Was Yes, yeah, definitely, and I think it's still always there,
16:57
Speaker 5: but I'm now far more aware. When we go back
16:59
Speaker 5: to that whole self awareness piece, I'm far more aware
17:02
Speaker 5: when I'm doing it. And if I I generally like
17:06
Speaker 5: to be a positive person, I'm generally a positive person
17:09
Speaker 5: and quite optimistic. But I can really tell when I
17:11
Speaker 5: start to start thinking negatively and start even if I'm
17:16
Speaker 5: speaking negatively, I'm like, what am I doing right now
17:19
Speaker 5: that's making me like this? And I always know it's
17:21
Speaker 5: because I have been thinking about something that I've been
17:25
Speaker 5: comparing myself to or yeah, in some way I've been
17:28
Speaker 5: caught in that track and then I spiral into this
17:32
Speaker 5: negative space and I just know, you can never have
17:34
Speaker 5: a positive life with a negative mind, right. It's really
17:38
Speaker 5: the more positive you can be, or the more you
17:40
Speaker 5: know optimistic you are, the easier it is.
17:42
Speaker 3: To find the answer and find a solution.
17:45
Speaker 5: And so I, yeah, it's a big cue for me
17:47
Speaker 5: when I get into that negative spra and you know,
17:50
Speaker 5: especially when I'm around other negative people that like to
17:53
Speaker 5: throw out their negatives first before the positives.
17:55
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, get me out of here.
17:57
Speaker 5: And I've become a lot strong with my boundaries around
17:59
Speaker 5: who you around that, you know, take that away from you.
18:02
Speaker 2: Comparison is a space of negativity, you know, because it's
18:05
Speaker 2: it's a negative self talk, really, and I think we
18:09
Speaker 2: can and I've been in times early on in my
18:12
Speaker 2: career where comparison did help me to succeed. It helped
18:16
Speaker 2: be the driver to go I'm not good enough on it.
18:20
Speaker 2: But it's never lasting.
18:22
Speaker 3: It fuels that competitiveness to a point, doesn't it.
18:25
Speaker 2: But you can always play the game of this someone
18:28
Speaker 2: who is better than me and you're and so it
18:30
Speaker 2: feeds the not enoughness thing. It feeds a self loathing,
18:34
Speaker 2: you know, and a negative and negative spiral.
18:37
Speaker 5: And then you never actually acknowledging or you know, congratulating
18:42
Speaker 5: yourself on the little milestones that you make or the
18:44
Speaker 5: little things that you do, because it's never like what
18:46
Speaker 5: the other person did.
18:47
Speaker 2: Or you're never enough with comparison. I think it's them.
18:51
Speaker 2: It's a shocker.
18:52
Speaker 1: I want to know for both you, the idea of success,
18:56
Speaker 1: like when you were heading towards like I want to be,
18:59
Speaker 1: you know, want to be on the stage on a
19:01
Speaker 1: global level, and you were on the journey, but you
19:04
Speaker 1: weren't there and you were aspiring to get there. Then
19:06
Speaker 1: you got there and you were a sixteen year old
19:09
Speaker 1: netballer who maybe wanted to play for Australia who ended
19:12
Speaker 1: up being all of.
19:13
Speaker 4: The things you were.
19:14
Speaker 1: What's the gap between what you thought it would be
19:19
Speaker 1: and what it was like when you got there?
19:22
Speaker 4: Did it feel like you thought it would feel?
19:25
Speaker 2: Yes and no is the answer. What I didn't realize
19:31
Speaker 2: growing up. I had big dreams and I always dream big.
19:37
Speaker 2: It costs the same amount of energy to have the
19:40
Speaker 2: thought of or have the dream of the stars and
19:43
Speaker 2: the moon as it does to you know, the top
19:45
Speaker 2: of the tin shed, So dream big, but also between
19:51
Speaker 2: where you are in that dream, as we talked about earlier,
19:54
Speaker 2: is a hell of a lot of hard work and
19:57
Speaker 2: a hell of a lot of sacrifice and so and
20:01
Speaker 2: that's that's been the word really for me. It's you
20:06
Speaker 2: can have what you can potentially have in a first
20:09
Speaker 2: world privilege, you know whatever, You can potentially have everything
20:12
Speaker 2: you want, but you cannot have everything you want at
20:15
Speaker 2: the same time. And so getting to the top of
20:18
Speaker 2: the mountains for me, which were playing Phantom and Fanta
20:23
Speaker 2: the opera, playing Jean Valjean and Lami Is in London,
20:27
Speaker 2: they were the dreams of sixteen seventeen year old for me,
20:29
Speaker 2: and to realize them twenty years later, Yes, I sit
20:32
Speaker 2: with that pride of congratulations and for myself and not
20:36
Speaker 2: not just a pat on the back, but a really
20:40
Speaker 2: really long hug and a few tears. Yeah to that
20:44
Speaker 2: sixteen year old self who've put those dreams out there.
20:49
Speaker 2: I knew it was going to take a lot of
20:50
Speaker 2: hard work, and I was prepared for the hard work.
20:52
Speaker 2: I've never been afraid of discipline and hard work. I've
20:55
Speaker 2: grew up really sporty person. I know what that's like
20:58
Speaker 2: to have that athlete mentality. I wasn't aware of how
21:04
Speaker 2: fucking taxing it would be on me, how exhausting. I
21:10
Speaker 2: wasn't aware of how much I would appease and plicate
21:14
Speaker 2: and try and make other people happy, to try and
21:17
Speaker 2: you know, make things happen for myself, say no to
21:20
Speaker 2: things like you know, between doing Phantom and lame Is,
21:24
Speaker 2: I had a week off. I needed three months off.
21:26
Speaker 2: I was that exhausted. But I didn't want to not
21:30
Speaker 2: have the opportunity. I didn't want those in positions of
21:33
Speaker 2: power to say, Honor, we'll get someone else. He's not
21:36
Speaker 2: going to get to do it. I didn't want to
21:37
Speaker 2: lose the dream. So I sacrificed my own self and
21:41
Speaker 2: what I needed, Yeah, what I really needed to appease others.
21:47
Speaker 2: I didn't realize I do that. But then I've sacrificed
21:50
Speaker 2: relationships and the quality of relationships because I've been really
21:55
Speaker 2: selfish and really self motivate and self centered in my career.
22:00
Speaker 2: It's had to be about me, or I've felt like
22:02
Speaker 2: it's had to be about me. To be able to
22:04
Speaker 2: achieve things in the way I want to achieve, so
22:07
Speaker 2: really sacrifice them. I've sacrificed time with family that I
22:11
Speaker 2: really really value now, I've sacrificed really important things with friends, milestones,
22:16
Speaker 2: births of babies, you know, bucks, weekends and just memories
22:22
Speaker 2: that are created. And so ultimately, when you look at
22:24
Speaker 2: the view from the top, there's a part of it
22:28
Speaker 2: that is magical because I'm feeling the feelings of playing
22:32
Speaker 2: those roles and there's nothing like that. But I'm also
22:35
Speaker 2: part of it that is there's a sadness in it too,
22:39
Speaker 2: because I've missed out on so many things, and in
22:42
Speaker 2: playing those roles, the only way I could do it
22:44
Speaker 2: was really to be a monk. So I didn't have
22:46
Speaker 2: a social life living in London. I wasn't having a
22:50
Speaker 2: social life with my friends back home. So when I
22:53
Speaker 2: look at it, it's going, yeah, it's fantastic, and it's
22:56
Speaker 2: also cost a lot, and so it's not what I thought.
23:01
Speaker 2: I only thought about the positive things, and those positive
23:04
Speaker 2: things I felt them and more, you know, ten ten x.
23:09
Speaker 2: Nothing is like playing Jean Valjean or the Phantom. That
23:11
Speaker 2: feeling of playing those or when you're there is nothing
23:14
Speaker 2: to talk about. That feeling of bliss that I was
23:15
Speaker 2: talking about that an under it is that on roids,
23:19
Speaker 2: but what it costs me for the other twenty one
23:22
Speaker 2: hours of the day is a hell of a lot
23:25
Speaker 2: of sacrifice.
23:25
Speaker 4: What about you, the idea versus the reality?
23:28
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I often hear other athletes say this,
23:32
Speaker 5: and especially at the recent Olympics. Most people say this
23:35
Speaker 5: when they win their goal betal, and it's exactly what
23:37
Speaker 5: I felt was that when you finally do it and
23:40
Speaker 5: as a team you achieved that success that you thought
23:42
Speaker 5: you wanted so much, it's just a huge amount of
23:44
Speaker 5: relief that you actually have done it, that you can
23:46
Speaker 5: tick it off, I've done it. That you're exhausted by it,
23:50
Speaker 5: and you often have these big come down afterwards because
23:54
Speaker 5: you no longer have that same connection with everybody that
23:56
Speaker 5: you're doing it together, and you're trying to work through
23:58
Speaker 5: what you're going to get to, you know, to that
24:00
Speaker 5: final game to win that gold medal or win that premiership,
24:03
Speaker 5: and then it becomes quite overwhelming. I think the exhaustion
24:07
Speaker 5: of it all exactly what you were talking about, that
24:09
Speaker 5: the cost of it all to drive you to that
24:12
Speaker 5: success and when I reflect on the moments that I
24:15
Speaker 5: remember most from my career, it is never the moments
24:19
Speaker 5: of when you actually win it, or the moments of
24:21
Speaker 5: getting your medal or you know, the premiership celebrations. You
24:25
Speaker 5: remember the dumb moments that happen as a team, when
24:28
Speaker 5: you're preparing, when you're in the change rooms, when you're
24:30
Speaker 5: being as you know, immature, with everybody mucking around it.
24:34
Speaker 5: They're the special moments that you really love. But the
24:37
Speaker 5: version of success that when you finally get there, I think, yeah,
24:40
Speaker 5: for me, it was always just really oh, I can
24:42
Speaker 5: stop banging on about that and you know, wanting to
24:45
Speaker 5: get that because I finally got it. And it takes
24:47
Speaker 5: your while to then find that next driver that's going
24:49
Speaker 5: to take you forward, what's going to actually allow you
24:52
Speaker 5: to put all that energy and effort into something. It
24:54
Speaker 5: takes a while to kind of sort that out. I
24:56
Speaker 5: think within my own body what I want to do
24:58
Speaker 5: next and what I'm compared to drive myself forward with.
25:03
Speaker 2: Did you ever take moments actually to clock that this
25:07
Speaker 2: is I'm in relief and not in celebration and actually
25:12
Speaker 2: celebrate it.
25:13
Speaker 5: Well, I think when I got to the like my
25:15
Speaker 5: last four or five years. That was when I was
25:18
Speaker 5: actually so much more aware of everything and aware that, oh,
25:22
Speaker 5: I'd really wanted to do this. I haven't been able
25:24
Speaker 5: to do this my whole career, and I've finally been
25:26
Speaker 5: able to do it and enjoy it with the people
25:28
Speaker 5: around me.
25:30
Speaker 3: But that did take to the end of my career,
25:32
Speaker 3: and I reckon.
25:32
Speaker 5: I look back now on my career as an athlete,
25:36
Speaker 5: and I'm so much more prouder of myself than what
25:39
Speaker 5: I ever was when I was in the moments, And
25:42
Speaker 5: even when I finished, it took me a few years
25:44
Speaker 5: to be like, oh.
25:45
Speaker 3: Bloody hell, I did that.
25:47
Speaker 5: And now I love the fact that I've done that
25:49
Speaker 5: for myself and that I can acknowledge that because I
25:51
Speaker 5: just don't think you ever have. Well, I didn't have
25:54
Speaker 5: the space mentally to be able to ever look at
25:56
Speaker 5: it like that, because it was always what's next, what's next?
25:58
Speaker 2: I have to do next? You regret not celebrating those
26:01
Speaker 2: moments more? Would you advise people to actually sit in
26:05
Speaker 2: the celebration.
26:06
Speaker 3: If you can regreat celebrating I don't know. I don't
26:11
Speaker 3: regret it.
26:11
Speaker 5: I mean, I feel fortunate that I've got all these
26:14
Speaker 5: teammates who are beautiful friends of mine. We're all still
26:17
Speaker 5: so close and even now now we've gone through life
26:19
Speaker 5: of having babies and going through all and it's always
26:22
Speaker 5: your teammates, your old teammates that you go back to
26:24
Speaker 5: in those moments because they know what it's like or
26:26
Speaker 5: they've been through it before you and they passed down
26:28
Speaker 5: all their knowledge to you. And you know that's They're
26:31
Speaker 5: the special group of people that we always will talk
26:33
Speaker 5: about the good times that have happened and the moments
26:34
Speaker 5: that we did stuff together. So that's where I love
26:37
Speaker 5: being part of a team sport, and I have all
26:39
Speaker 5: these amazing teammates that I can continue to have those
26:42
Speaker 5: conversations in connection with.
26:51
Speaker 2: Guys, I asked you to bring in a quote. We've
26:53
Speaker 2: got a little something that you might have.
26:56
Speaker 4: A writer from the early nineteenth century.
26:58
Speaker 1: Her name was a nas Nil and she said, and
27:02
Speaker 1: she was I think this is in a couple of
27:03
Speaker 1: theological texts as well, but she said, we don't see
27:06
Speaker 1: things as they are, We see things as we are ye,
27:09
Speaker 1: which is really kind of in line with what we're
27:13
Speaker 1: talking about today, and especially the mind stuff.
27:15
Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, it.
27:17
Speaker 2: Speaks to you, know what you're sort of saying about
27:19
Speaker 2: there's there's the experience that you experience, there's experienced the
27:23
Speaker 2: other personal experience, and then there's the experience itself.
27:27
Speaker 1: There's the thing that's going on which doesn't mean anything,
27:30
Speaker 1: and then there's your story about Bianca's story and my story,
27:33
Speaker 1: and they're probably three different stories.
27:36
Speaker 2: Yeah. I like that quote for me.
27:40
Speaker 5: It probably takes me back to when I first started
27:42
Speaker 5: and I had a coach, Joyce Brown, who was an
27:44
Speaker 5: absolute legend of the netble world, and she was someone
27:46
Speaker 5: who really took me under her wing and coached me
27:50
Speaker 5: as a person and a player. She's so much she
27:52
Speaker 5: cares so much about my life away from the court
27:55
Speaker 5: as well as a player. But she always used to
27:58
Speaker 5: say and put this quote up on it in our
28:01
Speaker 5: team room, if it's to be, it's up to me.
28:03
Speaker 5: And she wasn't meaning that in a you know, it's
28:06
Speaker 5: up to you to win the game or do it.
28:08
Speaker 5: Was about it's up to you to control what you
28:10
Speaker 5: can to change, to learn to evolve. It's all on
28:14
Speaker 5: your shoulders. Don't expect anyone to come in and.
28:16
Speaker 2: Just fix it.
28:17
Speaker 5: For you to be accountable, Yeah, and just always be
28:20
Speaker 5: in that mindset of learning and so yeah, I always
28:24
Speaker 5: remind myself of that, you know, when there's something that
28:26
Speaker 5: I'm expecting someone else to change for me.
28:28
Speaker 3: When I realized that I could.
28:29
Speaker 5: Probably look a little bit deeper internally and figure out
28:32
Speaker 5: away myself that that's it's always up to me to
28:35
Speaker 5: have a think about that.
28:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just to pull on that thread. I think
28:38
Speaker 2: it speaks to the idea of of accountability and blaming
28:43
Speaker 2: others for our lack of success or things not going away.
28:47
Speaker 2: How quickly we we point the finger. And it's maybe
28:51
Speaker 2: that relationship between shame and blame that you're feeling shame
28:54
Speaker 2: that it didn't work out and you don't want to
28:56
Speaker 2: take accountability that if it's up to it's meant to be,
29:01
Speaker 2: it's up to me. It's like what it was meant
29:03
Speaker 2: to be? It was turfold or yeah, and they screwed
29:06
Speaker 2: it for me, Like how quickly humans love to do that?
29:09
Speaker 5: Rightive mindset that comes with that, and I just hate
29:12
Speaker 5: sitting in that space.
29:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got one. I often use a roomy quote.
29:16
Speaker 2: I do love a bit of thirteenth century Sufism. As
29:20
Speaker 2: you start to walk on the way the way it appears,
29:25
Speaker 2: and I feel like a lot. As you start to
29:27
Speaker 2: walk on the way, the way appears, yes, but a
29:30
Speaker 2: lot of people don't want to walk because that first
29:33
Speaker 2: step is the thing they're most scared of. And when
29:38
Speaker 2: you take that first step that leads to step two,
29:40
Speaker 2: step three, you may not have it all sorted out,
29:43
Speaker 2: you know, But if you've plotted a destination, don't you
29:46
Speaker 2: can also ditch the map and go it may I
29:48
Speaker 2: may have different paths to get me there. But if
29:50
Speaker 2: you don't plot a destination I think, and have a
29:54
Speaker 2: goal or have a dream, it's hard, but it's even
29:57
Speaker 2: harder if you don't, if you're not willing to just
29:59
Speaker 2: take the first step, and there's such a fear barrier
30:02
Speaker 2: with that that first step. I want to sort of
30:05
Speaker 2: speak to where is fear, you know, gotten in your
30:08
Speaker 2: way of not being able to succeed?
30:12
Speaker 1: I think to that it's like, for me, it's about
30:15
Speaker 1: where am I going? What's the destination? So getting there?
30:20
Speaker 1: But really the prize is who we become getting there.
30:24
Speaker 1: It's not about the top of the mountain. It's about
30:26
Speaker 1: who you become climbing the mountain. Like you know, for me,
30:30
Speaker 1: all the stuff that I've done, some good, some bad,
30:32
Speaker 1: some success, some failure, you know, fall down, fuck up,
30:37
Speaker 1: get up, all that stuff. Like, it's really about the
30:41
Speaker 1: knowledge and the insight and the skill and the understanding
30:44
Speaker 1: and the experiences that you have in the middle of that.
30:46
Speaker 4: That for me, it's like, that's.
30:49
Speaker 2: The space between the first step and landing at the
30:53
Speaker 2: top of the mountain. That is Yeah, it's really the space,
30:56
Speaker 2: you know. When we had Ben Crow on, we also
30:59
Speaker 2: had called Asha Pacman on It's a great episode, but
31:03
Speaker 2: he would say, I'm sure Asha would say that from
31:06
Speaker 2: a soul's perspective, that's the space between birth and death.
31:10
Speaker 2: You know, all the stuff that's happening in the middle
31:13
Speaker 2: is the life, and that's where the dance is. That's
31:15
Speaker 2: where the enjoyment is. That's where the curiosity, the adventure,
31:18
Speaker 2: the play of it all is happening on the journey
31:21
Speaker 2: to the destination, and we're so caught up in the
31:24
Speaker 2: destination we miss the life and being alive in the middle.
31:27
Speaker 1: And I think, if you can be curious around your fear, right,
31:31
Speaker 1: So the goal is not to be fearless, because like,
31:34
Speaker 1: being fearless is stupid, because there are some things we
31:36
Speaker 1: should be scared of. But that fear is going to
31:39
Speaker 1: keep you alive right at times, but we can be
31:43
Speaker 1: In fact, we have to be scared to be courageous.
31:46
Speaker 1: If you're not scared, well there's no courage required. And
31:48
Speaker 1: so being being not controlled by fear but rather curious
31:54
Speaker 1: about fear is maybe the better paradigm to to go, yeah,
31:59
Speaker 1: I'm scared. Cool, that's okay, you should be scared. That's
32:02
Speaker 1: fucking terrifying. But now what y Yeah?
32:05
Speaker 2: I mean a line scared and has that that that
32:08
Speaker 2: fear when it goes to kill an antelope, and that's
32:11
Speaker 2: what that's what drives. We need that level of it,
32:14
Speaker 2: you know. I have that bit of fear every time
32:16
Speaker 2: before poor Antelope on stage. I think Pav already said
32:23
Speaker 2: something like if you're not if you're not scared, then
32:25
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter to you. Then you don't care. You
32:27
Speaker 2: actually need a bit of that fear.
32:30
Speaker 5: To adrenaline rush, that nervous energy. That's why that's why
32:33
Speaker 5: I love working in TV now, especially live TV. It's
32:35
Speaker 5: the same adrenaline rush that you get as an athlete
32:39
Speaker 5: when you step out there onto the court. It's like
32:41
Speaker 5: have you done your prep? You go like it's up
32:44
Speaker 5: to you what happens next.
32:45
Speaker 2: And you go with your liveness and livelness of it.
32:48
Speaker 5: Well, I love it because it is like that if
32:50
Speaker 5: you've if you've done your prep, you should be able
32:53
Speaker 5: to figure your way out through no matter what happens,
32:55
Speaker 5: but also not expecting it to be perfect. It's okay
32:58
Speaker 5: if you stuff up or say the wrong thing. You
32:59
Speaker 5: just got to find your way back. And I really
33:02
Speaker 5: that drives me a lot, and I love the energy
33:05
Speaker 5: from that. But I think there's not much that replicates
33:10
Speaker 5: athlete life out of outside of being an athlete, whereas
33:13
Speaker 5: live TV and that, I guess it's performing like you,
33:17
Speaker 5: you really feel that same energy and yeah, sometimes it
33:21
Speaker 5: scares the life out of you, but it's bloody fun
33:23
Speaker 5: doing it.
33:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, greentlemen, Rush, you've done some coaching in your time.
33:30
Speaker 2: You were the head coach of the Junior Nepal Academy.
33:33
Speaker 5: Yeah, I had in my own academy out with Victoria University.
33:36
Speaker 2: Yeah. And do you still work in a mentor and
33:40
Speaker 2: coaching space in ways?
33:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I work.
33:43
Speaker 5: I work a lot in the leadership space, so working
33:45
Speaker 5: with people within corporates or within teams, and a lot
33:50
Speaker 5: of the stuff that we'll talk about is around that
33:52
Speaker 5: kind of team environment and the kindness and the work
33:56
Speaker 5: around collaborating with each other and getting the best out
33:59
Speaker 5: of what everyone can bring to the table. That's what
34:03
Speaker 5: I do a lot of working now, and I love
34:04
Speaker 5: that space. I love working with people. Again, it's like
34:08
Speaker 5: being in that team sport environment where you just got
34:10
Speaker 5: to figure out the best way forward for that group.
34:13
Speaker 5: It doesn't always there's not one kind of mold that fit.
34:16
Speaker 2: Speaks to what you were earlier, and you do a
34:18
Speaker 2: I mean, you just so much in the this space.
34:22
Speaker 2: I want to Having climbed mountains, and I'm curious about
34:26
Speaker 2: this because I'm in this space too, having climbed and
34:29
Speaker 2: got to the top of some really big mountains. What's
34:33
Speaker 2: the feeling like going back down the mountain and helping
34:38
Speaker 2: others get up? Which once again pulls on the threat
34:41
Speaker 2: that you were talking about, really where that first part
34:44
Speaker 2: of life is probably about about us, and then life
34:48
Speaker 2: shifts and it's really you know, not what you can
34:51
Speaker 2: get from it, but what you can give to it
34:53
Speaker 2: to give to others. What does that feel like for you, guys?
34:56
Speaker 1: Yeah?
34:56
Speaker 5: I mean to me, like when I talk about it
34:59
Speaker 5: and I've said it, so the last part of my
35:01
Speaker 5: crew was my best part of my career. I played better,
35:03
Speaker 5: I was a better person.
35:05
Speaker 3: I enjoyed it far more.
35:07
Speaker 5: And it's because even in that moment as an athlete,
35:09
Speaker 5: I was the older player, and I got so much
35:12
Speaker 5: pride in watching the youngest girls come into the team
35:15
Speaker 5: and do their things for the first time, play their
35:17
Speaker 5: first game, you know, get out there in a moment,
35:20
Speaker 5: and whether it's change a game the way they played
35:22
Speaker 5: or beaten opposition that maybe it'd had the best of
35:24
Speaker 5: them in the past, and.
35:27
Speaker 3: That fueled me.
35:28
Speaker 5: That energy that you got and the pride that you
35:30
Speaker 5: get from seeing someone do something well or you know
35:33
Speaker 5: that's challenged them and you've helped them work on it
35:34
Speaker 5: during the week, and just what that can really do
35:38
Speaker 5: for them. And I think when you step back and
35:42
Speaker 5: now in the workplace that you do seeing people just
35:44
Speaker 5: the light bulb moments that they might have where it's like, oh, actually,
35:46
Speaker 5: if I think that way, maybe that.
35:47
Speaker 3: Is going to help me.
35:49
Speaker 5: And you would get it a lot where people will
35:51
Speaker 5: come back to you and give you feedback about how
35:53
Speaker 5: that made them feel in that moment and what it's
35:55
Speaker 5: done for their trajectory. And it's not that you're changing
35:58
Speaker 5: their lives. It's just that you'll get them one little
36:00
Speaker 5: thing that might help them be in a better space.
36:04
Speaker 4: I think if you can help and encourage people to.
36:10
Speaker 1: Think more of themselves, like I think most people's biggest
36:17
Speaker 1: barrier to success is literally how they think, not their potential,
36:21
Speaker 1: not their possibilities, not their genetics. You know, of course
36:25
Speaker 1: there are limitations, but you know, it's like, I'm not
36:29
Speaker 1: particularly talented. I don't have great genetics. I wasn't a
36:32
Speaker 1: brilliant academic. And it's not that I'm the high order
36:34
Speaker 1: mark now, but you know, it's like I think for
36:37
Speaker 1: some people, and you two are both even though you
36:40
Speaker 1: said you're not naturally a great athlete, you're pretty good.
36:44
Speaker 2: And I wasn't naturally a good singer.
36:45
Speaker 4: Well, I actually think I'm a naturally good singer.
36:48
Speaker 2: Just actually, for.
36:50
Speaker 1: Me, mediocrity was my superpower because it made me really
36:54
Speaker 1: fucking motivated because I knew exactly I just had to
36:58
Speaker 1: work harder because if I was going to be able to, Like,
37:01
Speaker 1: we had these compulsory cross country runs every week, and
37:04
Speaker 1: obviously when I was a fat kid, one hundred and
37:06
Speaker 1: thirty kids in my year, every week I would come
37:08
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirtieth because I would walk it because
37:10
Speaker 1: I couldn't run it. And then six months later I
37:13
Speaker 1: was winning every week, week after week after week number one.
37:18
Speaker 1: And it wasn't because I was genetically great or fuck,
37:20
Speaker 1: he's an athlete, isn't he not. It's like, I just
37:22
Speaker 1: ran seven days a week put in the world and
37:25
Speaker 1: so I was doing what they weren't doing. And then
37:26
Speaker 1: I started to create outcomes. And it wasn't about, oh,
37:29
Speaker 1: look at me, I'm a good runner. It was like, ah,
37:32
Speaker 1: so if I apply myself, what like what's possible? Because
37:38
Speaker 1: my thinking was really the issue. Yeah, I didn't have
37:41
Speaker 1: great genetics, but they weren't terrible, right, And I wasn't
37:45
Speaker 1: an academic genius but not a moron. It's like, all right, well,
37:48
Speaker 1: if I take whatever I've got, whether or not that's
37:50
Speaker 1: creativity or intellect or physiology, and I put eleven out
37:56
Speaker 1: of ten effort wrapped around that, what might I create?
38:01
Speaker 4: You know?
38:01
Speaker 1: And because we're all scared and we're all dysfunctional and
38:03
Speaker 1: we're all a bit broken, we're also a bit fucking amazing.
38:07
Speaker 1: But we need to let the amazing out, and fear
38:10
Speaker 1: keeps the amazing in you know, all laziness or avoidance
38:13
Speaker 1: or procrastination.
38:14
Speaker 2: Or you know whatever, all the derivative fear correct correct.
38:18
Speaker 1: And so it's like, if I can get out of
38:20
Speaker 1: my own way, if I can I remember having this
38:24
Speaker 1: moment the first time, and I don't say this to
38:27
Speaker 1: sound anything but just grateful.
38:30
Speaker 4: Where I ran an event.
38:31
Speaker 1: It was just a me event, just Craig Harper at
38:34
Speaker 1: Deacon and six hundred and seventy people in the six
38:37
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy person room, and everyone paid to go
38:41
Speaker 1: and see me. I wasn't at someone else's event. I
38:44
Speaker 1: wasn't at a convention. It wasn't a conference, and I
38:46
Speaker 1: was one of the speakers.
38:48
Speaker 2: It was like six.
38:48
Speaker 1: Hundred and seventy and I remember being blown away, like
38:53
Speaker 1: I used to be blown away that one person would
38:55
Speaker 1: pay to listen to me, you know, And then six
38:58
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy people on the sun they decided to
39:01
Speaker 1: come and listen to what I had to say, and
39:04
Speaker 1: I just remember thinking, not like ah, I good.
39:07
Speaker 4: I remember thinking this is fucking amazing.
39:10
Speaker 1: How was this a thing where this many people want
39:14
Speaker 1: to come to listen to what I have to say,
39:17
Speaker 1: you know? And in that moment it For me, it
39:19
Speaker 1: was all about, oh yeah, like, I'm not terrible, I'm
39:23
Speaker 1: not the best, but I've got I've got ability, and
39:27
Speaker 1: I've got potential that I can optimize and operationalize and
39:31
Speaker 1: create some good outcomes. And so because I'm not this
39:34
Speaker 1: special human, I love working with other people who have
39:37
Speaker 1: got at least as much potential talent and genetic potential
39:40
Speaker 1: as me, and go, you know what, I actually think
39:44
Speaker 1: if you can, if you can put in the effort
39:46
Speaker 1: and energy and courage, you'll do something fucking amazing. And
39:50
Speaker 1: when you say that and you mean it, because that
39:54
Speaker 1: impacts them, I go, I'm not telling you this because
39:57
Speaker 1: this sounds good.
39:59
Speaker 4: I'm not saying this inspire you. I truly think I
40:02
Speaker 4: don't know if you will.
40:03
Speaker 1: By the way, because you might be fucking lazy and
40:05
Speaker 1: you might be whatever, But I think you could do
40:08
Speaker 1: something special.
40:10
Speaker 2: So we've talked a lot about career and success. To
40:12
Speaker 2: sort of close out, I want to know, in terms
40:15
Speaker 2: of a border spection of life, having you know, being
40:19
Speaker 2: in your forties and now sixty and I'm pushing forty
40:23
Speaker 2: for you guys.
40:24
Speaker 4: What what what tox of forty?
40:28
Speaker 2: What? What does a more rounded life of success, look
40:36
Speaker 2: like you go, a successful rounded life look for look
40:40
Speaker 2: like for you guys.
40:41
Speaker 1: Now, I think because my life is quite a typical
40:44
Speaker 1: in that I'm not married, I don't have a partner,
40:46
Speaker 1: I don't have kids, and there ain't many sixty year
40:50
Speaker 1: olds who are like that or who have never had that.
40:52
Speaker 2: Are you wanting that?
40:55
Speaker 4: I don't think. I don't think she's toddy in here.
40:59
Speaker 2: See, I mean.
41:02
Speaker 1: Got this bit. I don't not want it, you know.
41:07
Speaker 1: But it's not like on my to do list, you know.
41:12
Speaker 1: But it's like, in some ways being single is an
41:16
Speaker 1: advantage in some ways not you know, some way is
41:18
Speaker 1: the opposite. But I mean, like you, and this is
41:22
Speaker 1: no revelation, this is no massive insight, but you get
41:26
Speaker 1: to the point where you realize that really what matters
41:28
Speaker 1: is connection and love and people and when you when
41:32
Speaker 1: you're younger, it's more more about ticking boxes and hitting
41:35
Speaker 1: KPIs and you know, ticking the to do list or whatever.
41:41
Speaker 4: Not always not everyone, of course, but for me it was.
41:44
Speaker 1: But then you know, for me, it's like I kind
41:47
Speaker 1: of have a family of people around me that I
41:50
Speaker 1: intersect with, that I coach, that I mentor that I
41:53
Speaker 1: encourage that I love, and when they do great, it
41:58
Speaker 1: makes me happy, you know. So yeah, yeah, so yeah,
42:04
Speaker 1: And I don't you know, I've got old parents. My
42:06
Speaker 1: mum's eighty five in a minute, and my dad's eighty five,
42:09
Speaker 1: and you know, so things change and your priorities shift,
42:13
Speaker 1: and so most of like my priority in life right
42:16
Speaker 1: now is them, yeah, you know, and just they're you know,
42:20
Speaker 1: they're on the home straight, and just that they're as
42:24
Speaker 1: okay as they can be.
42:25
Speaker 4: And I be the best son that I can be
42:28
Speaker 4: for them, you know.
42:30
Speaker 1: And so that's like I think when you know, when
42:33
Speaker 1: people are sick or when things you know, when you
42:37
Speaker 1: have somebody that you know, it's like my training partner
42:41
Speaker 1: literally died in the gym five years ago, Like he
42:43
Speaker 1: had a heart attack. No he didn't, He had a
42:45
Speaker 1: cardiac arrest and died. He's fine, he came back, but
42:49
Speaker 1: he was dead for seventeen minutes. And I don't meant
42:51
Speaker 1: to be melodramatic, because he's fine now. But when somebody
42:55
Speaker 1: that you love is literally dying in front of you,
42:58
Speaker 1: and you the person, like you're the person that's going
43:02
Speaker 1: to maybe allow them to keep living, or it's I
43:07
Speaker 1: didn't mean to go here anyway, but it's just what happened.
43:09
Speaker 1: It's like, oh my god, like nothing matters in the world.
43:13
Speaker 1: Like and it's amazing when when that's going on, how
43:17
Speaker 1: how much absolute clarity and focus you have about what
43:22
Speaker 1: is important and what is what isn't important? Is most
43:26
Speaker 1: of what I think is important? Do you know what
43:29
Speaker 1: I mean?
43:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're basically like here, I don't know if
43:32
Speaker 2: it work in about but with relation with your parents
43:35
Speaker 2: and relation with the gym partner, it's love overrides everything.
43:38
Speaker 4: Yeah, And and like what.
43:42
Speaker 1: You know, the insection of what I'm talking about now
43:44
Speaker 1: in a bit of science is that you know, when
43:46
Speaker 1: we talk about health, wellness, long longevity, success performance, we
43:50
Speaker 1: talk in a physical sense. We talk about you know,
43:53
Speaker 1: lifestyle and nutrition and sleep and exercise and occupational activity
43:58
Speaker 1: and incidental activity. And but now more and more we
44:01
Speaker 1: know the research tells us that may be the most
44:03
Speaker 1: important thing in terms of immune system function, health, longevity,
44:10
Speaker 1: nervous system, gut health is our social life is our
44:16
Speaker 1: relationships is if you get somebody who ticks all the
44:19
Speaker 1: other boxes, you know, great diet, great lifestyle, no boozs,
44:23
Speaker 1: no drugs, They work out all the time, but they're lonely.
44:26
Speaker 1: It's not a good recipe. Yeah, so love connection. There's
44:32
Speaker 1: an absolute correlation between you know, the emotional, the psychological,
44:37
Speaker 1: the sociological, and the physical consequence of.
44:39
Speaker 4: All of that.
44:41
Speaker 2: So that's so having love in your life, regardless of
44:46
Speaker 2: whether it's a partner with kids, or whether.
44:48
Speaker 1: Or not it's romantic love or you know, elaborador called Scooby.
44:53
Speaker 2: Doo, but you yeah, you've got lots of love in
44:56
Speaker 2: your life and that feels like a big measure of success.
45:00
Speaker 4: And also for me, having purpose, Like the idea of
45:04
Speaker 4: retirement has zero appealed to me, and not because I'm
45:07
Speaker 4: a workaholic, but I've watched many people many retire and
45:15
Speaker 4: spiral like we have this story in our head that
45:18
Speaker 4: retirement is good. It actually measurement.
45:22
Speaker 1: It depends what retirement is, you know, if like you
45:26
Speaker 1: think about like my dad went literally from managing multi
45:30
Speaker 1: billion dollar shopping centers where he had lots of people
45:34
Speaker 1: that he was leading. He had purpose, he had meetings,
45:38
Speaker 1: he had constant conversations, problem solving, creating things. You know,
45:43
Speaker 1: on a Friday, he retires the Monday. His biggest project
45:46
Speaker 1: is what to watch or whether or not he's going
45:50
Speaker 1: to go look at the tomatoes, and I reckon my
45:53
Speaker 1: dad aged five years in five months. Yeah, because we
45:57
Speaker 1: need whether or not it's at work or somewhere else,
46:00
Speaker 1: we need a purpose, We need a reason, we need
46:03
Speaker 1: a thing to do, and we need to fucking keep
46:06
Speaker 1: using our brain. You know, we need to. I believe
46:11
Speaker 1: I'm very passionate about this. Like I'm sixty one, my
46:14
Speaker 1: brain works as well or better than when I was thirty. Yeah,
46:17
Speaker 1: Like my cognitive function only because I do the work
46:21
Speaker 1: is right up there for my potential. But it's because
46:24
Speaker 1: I'm doing a PhD. It's because I read every day.
46:27
Speaker 1: It's because I teach every day. It's because I'm mentor
46:28
Speaker 1: every day. It's because I fucking think deeply. Like we
46:32
Speaker 1: take our body to gym, we need to take our
46:34
Speaker 1: brain to the gym and keep doing it. And if
46:36
Speaker 1: you're over fifty listening to this, even more so, do
46:40
Speaker 1: you need to do it? Train your brain lift heavy things.
46:44
Speaker 1: That's my advice.
46:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you speak to that purpose thing, and we're
46:48
Speaker 2: spoke to it in this chat. In some way I
46:50
Speaker 2: think we're we basically need to ask ourselves three questions
46:55
Speaker 2: in life. That I think are potentially the most important
46:57
Speaker 2: existential questions, which is who am I. We've discussed that
47:00
Speaker 2: a lot around the awareness chat. What do I want
47:03
Speaker 2: to feel? You know, not just what do I want
47:06
Speaker 2: to do? What do I want to feel? And what's
47:09
Speaker 2: my what's my purpose? And I think if you can
47:11
Speaker 2: answer those things, and I think some people kind even
47:14
Speaker 2: answer the first one, they didn't even know who they are.
47:17
Speaker 2: But if you're can answer those three questions, and and
47:20
Speaker 2: it might shift and you know, move in some in
47:24
Speaker 2: some ways. But the three questions I think are really
47:27
Speaker 2: important to come back to often in life. And yeah,
47:31
Speaker 2: going back to the original question, what does a rounded
47:34
Speaker 2: life as success look like to you? Now?
47:36
Speaker 3: Well, I mean.
47:39
Speaker 5: Praying I probably hit nail on ahead, but just around
47:42
Speaker 5: that love element, being able to do what you love
47:44
Speaker 5: and spend time with people that you love like. I
47:47
Speaker 5: think it's quite simple now, not as in it's simple
47:51
Speaker 5: to do, but it's just if you can do that
47:53
Speaker 5: and find that and chase that feeling of things that
47:57
Speaker 5: make you feel good and that you love to do,
47:59
Speaker 5: to be able to make that and call that a job,
48:01
Speaker 5: I think I feel very grateful and I want to
48:06
Speaker 5: be able to continue to do that as for as
48:07
Speaker 5: long as I can, because I give my best to
48:11
Speaker 5: it because of it, you know, because I love it.
48:14
Speaker 5: And then obviously being and surrounding yourself with all the
48:17
Speaker 5: people that you want to spend time with.
48:19
Speaker 2: Love and share love. Yeah, which is you know, to
48:23
Speaker 2: end a full circle back to Chris Martin Good gave
48:28
Speaker 2: so much and it's yeah, that's the connection that we're after.
48:31
Speaker 2: That is the that's the oneness. You know, when we're
48:33
Speaker 2: in that space of love, we feel such a oneness. Guys,
48:38
Speaker 2: chatters hearts, thank you so much for coming on today.
48:42
Speaker 2: It's been amazing to chat. I love that we've gone
48:44
Speaker 2: down the path of success and it's led us to
48:48
Speaker 2: so many different tangents. Thanks to you for your energy
48:51
Speaker 2: and passion and wisdom and experience and all and all
48:54
Speaker 2: those shares. I really appreciate having you both on you
48:57
Speaker 2: It's been great.
48:58
Speaker 4: Thank you. Good seech, good sneer mate, Thanks mate.
49:05
Speaker 1: M.
49:12
Speaker 2: Well there you go. Gang.
49:13
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that. I love him. He's a
49:16
Speaker 1: good dude. I love her, she's ace And of course
49:19
Speaker 1: I love you. See you next time.