Latest / Veteran Wellness Podcast / Your Body Changed. Don't Give Up: Pain, Recovery & Physical Therapy | Dani Williams

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Your Body Changed. Don't Give Up: Pain, Recovery & Physical Therapy | Dani Williams · Veteran Wellness Podcast

• Dani Williams: the reality ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dani Williams: is is that this person you were before able to do X, Y, and Z, like that is not a thing anymore. And so I think that's where like the mental side of things can really come in. And so I would just encourage people that like the state that you're in now does not remove any of that, right? It's just the reality of the situation is that if you want like a better quality of life, like you need to mentally come to grips with where you're at and then like make the most of your function. ERIK LAWRENCE: Danny Williams of Instagram Fame. The physical therapist that's all over Instagram, I think. So appreciate Dani Williams: Thank you. ERIK LAWRENCE: you taking the time to hopefully help out a bunch of old broken vets better understand why they need physical therapists. Dani Williams: Absolutely. Thanks for having me. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Where'd you where'd you grow up? Dani Williams: So I grew up in Gillette, Wyoming. born and raised there. Yep. ERIK LAWRENCE: I spent last summer in Wyoming by Big Piney. Dani Williams: small town. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah, there's nothing there. yeah Dani Williams: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: I was there to help a friend, but I'm like, buddy, there's no pines here and there's only wind. And Dani Williams: Yep. Yep. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah. Well as soon as I can leave I am gone. So I got you there. But Gillette, that's up by Devil's Towers, right? Dani Williams: Yeah, it's very close. It's like an hour and ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dani Williams: fifteen minutes probably. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I climbed that in my youth. That was the only time I'd been to Gillette, I think. But Dani Williams: That's awesome. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah, so what are you trained to do? How how how'd you get certified and and how professional are you at this physical therapist work? Dani Williams: while I do have my doctorate, I man, I guess a little bit about me. So my undergraduate was athletic training. So I did that for four years. and then I played basketball in college. And so I deferred my first year of PT school and I did a year of the master's of kinesiology and I got my strength and conditioning certification there. And then I went into PT school. So eight years of school, got my doctorate. I mostly work orthopedic outpatient and then I specialize in ortho. do a lot of just like, you know, surgeries, general shoulder, knee, hip, you name it. but I specialize in vestibular as well. So I do a lot of like Parkinson's, MS, TBIs, Dizzy, that kind of stuff. Yeah. So. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I learned what vestibular was when I was in my brain treatments. I'm like Yeah, Dani Williams: I figured as much. ERIK LAWRENCE: I'm like, wow, mine's broke. I understand now why I can't stand on one foot and put a sock on. maybe you can explain Dani Williams: So whole nother world. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah, maybe maybe explain the vestibular and how important that is to your daily life. Dani Williams: Well, vestibular is very complex. I guess a way to simplify it would be there's there's three systems in your body that control your balance. So you have your your eyes, so your eyes giving your brain feedback as to where you are in space, and then you have your somatosensory system, which is like a fancy term for all the nerves and like your your joints. So like if my left arm is in the air, I'm getting kinesthetic feedback from my like the nerves in my left arm that my hand's in the air. And then you have the really complex one, which is your vestibular system, so your inner ear. and that is kind of complex, but the three of them work together. And so depending upon the injury, you can have different presentations. but if you've ever heard of someone who has vertigo when their room's spinning, they'll get the like shakiness in the eyes. And that's just kind of an example of how those those two systems work together to maintain balance. So ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, that's a great explanation. That's what I needed Dani Williams: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: a couple of years ago because they were doing the latency eye testing and you know, your reactions and and all the post blast guys, all of the vestibulars all messed up. Dani Williams: yeah, yeah, yeah, I see it all the time. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, there's there's there's no way around it. But you know, car wrecks, Any concussions, you know, small concussions or numerous concussions, it doesn't matter. And that's where a lot of people will lose their spatial awareness. You'll see knock over a glass on a table and just all these indicators, none of us knew. Yeah, depth Dani Williams: In depth perception, yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: perception. We did not know that was the issue. We thought we were getting old or we were just something off. And then you go to a correct practitioner that understands this, they can explain this to you. And Dani Williams: Yeah. Yep. ERIK LAWRENCE: wow, yeah, that word means a lot to all the TBI patients. But you'd mentioned ortho, so many of our veterans are getting new knees, new hips, new shoulders. And I have, you know, I've gone to my one buddy's knee replacement and the hospital refused to give us his old knee. I'm like, but it's his. You know, we were gonna put it on a plaque and, you know, make make something out of it. And they're like, it's bio waste. Dani Williams: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: I'm like, well, how can it be bio waste if it just came out of him? So, but I lost that battle. But but with the joint replacements, so many of them have gone bad because guys blow off the physical therapist or they Dani Williams: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: take it easy and I don't know, you you know better than I, but it seems like, you know, if you're getting new joints it's gonna hurt to rehab correctly. Or you're not gonna get Dani Williams: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: the mobility you wish or had. What's your take on that? Dani Williams: Yeah, absolutely. and we could really dive deep on that. But I think that obviously I'm biased, but there there's a definite need for physical therapy following a total joint replacement. surgery is a trauma to the body. And I think a lot of times people they're already in pain, so they look at surgery as a way to get them out of pain or to function better. But to recover from surgery itself is also an injury that you sustain. You're cutting through tendons, skin, muscle. and so honestly, I don't know if you've ever watched a total knee or total hip, but it is human carpentry. Yeah. Yeah. I've sat in ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah. Yeah. Dani Williams: on a few of them and it's pretty gnarly. I they dislocate your hip and put it the ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dani Williams: other direction on the table. And so I think that, you know, when people get done with surgery, a lot of things take place. Number one, if we look at like from the physical aspect, it is a painful recovery. Those like total knees, for example, those are awesome. It's titanium. You're gonna do so much better once you're done with the rehab process, but it's pretty painful. And the first two weeks, people usually feel pretty good because they have their nerve block. but then the pain ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm. Dani Williams: gets a lot worse. And so I'd I can't stress enough the importance of doing rehab just because I've seen both sides of it. I've seen people who didn't do it and came back in because they had to get a revision versus I've seen people who were here literally the day after and they had phenomenal outcomes. But yeah, I mean, there's so many reasons like why PT is helpful. It's a the education. There's a lot of things that people don't understand or know about the healing process. the very ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm-hmm. Dani Williams: simple example is I've I've had people come in who were putting like hot packs on their fresh, you know, fresh postoperative leg and they couldn't understand why there was so much swelling, which they ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dani Williams: just grew up with the education that like heat is helpful with pain, but they didn't realize ERIK LAWRENCE: No. Dani Williams: that they were causing that vasodilation and like causing more fluid to come into the joint. But yeah, lots of things. I mean, lots of tips and tricks on transfers. I think another thing that I have noticed just with rehab in general is people get a they're they're afraid of pain and they don't know what's appropriate and what's not. So, like veterans, more often than not, I find they have a high pain tolerance. And so ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm-hmm. Dani Williams: they get leery because they are in so much pain. Like they don't know what's appropriate to push because they know that they'll just keep pushing, right? So they're almost like ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm-hmm. Dani Williams: afraid of their own limitations. and so I think it's nice to have a PT being like, okay, I know this hurts, but this is okay. Like it is safe to do this. And you need to do it to get your range of motion back. Or, you know, depending on the patient, sometimes it's the opposite. I'm like, hey, like we got to push it and I'm going to be here to help hold you accountable to make sure that you do get the range of motion back. And so I think just depending on the personality type and the injury itself, it's just nice to have professional guidance on like, hey, this is appropriate and like you can push into this range, or the opposite of just being like, You need to do this or you're gonna need a manipulation down the road. so I think that's all helpful. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. I and you'll have to manipulate them into getting manipulated probably. trick into it. Dani Williams: Yeah, and it's tough 'cause you Yeah. And I've seen it. I mean, I've seen a lot of really bad outcomes with with surgeries 'cause people just didn't want, you know, to do what they needed to do. But ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, the the lack of range of motion I've seen a couple of times. And then I Dani Williams: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: I go, Did you go to physical therapy? And they're like, Yeah I said, Did it hurt every time? They're No. I'm like, Well then you didn't do it right. You know, to get Dani Williams: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: that knee moving again, I'm sorry. There's scar tissue, there's inflammation, Dani Williams: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: I mean, it's gonna hurt. Dani Williams: And I do think, well, even with, you know, it's like with any career, I think there's good PTs and there's bad ones. So I think a big part of ERIK LAWRENCE: too sure. Dani Williams: going to physical therapy is making sure you find somebody that is right for you, you know, that is like finding your value and finding your personal goals. not to go on a tangent. I got frustrated yesterday. I had a patient in here for a completely different injury, her hip, and she has a history of a total knee replacement three years prior. And I asked her to get on the table on our hands and knees to do just some like, you know, different exercises essentially. And she looked at me like I was crazy. And she was like, I can't get on my knees. And I was like, Why not? And she was like, I have a total knee replacement. And I was like, I know. And she was like, I didn't think I could go on my knees. And I'm like, So you're telling me your physical therapist never taught you how to kneel again? And you've never knelt. You've never like put pressure through your knee. She's like, no, it's painful. So that frustrated me because like that's, you know, somebody who kind of failed her in the PT world. Like you should be able to put pressure through your prosthetic. So like I said, there's good ones ERIK LAWRENCE: Well yeah. Dani Williams: and bad ones, right? ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, that's true. And and and that's where, you know, how how does somebody if they get the choice of physical therapist, how do they find the right one? What do they ask What's what's the best questions to interrogate you and then find out if you're the right person? Dani Williams: man, we could really go on this one. I would say above all is just like your relationship with the therapist. I mean, we spend two, three days a week with you, right? And so finding somebody who actually is like listening to you, not staring at their computer the whole time, but like getting to know your goals and you personally, not just like, we're gonna make sure you can walk, sit, stand, move, and then you're out of here. It's like, no, like Eric, like, do you like to hike? Do you like what are like things specific to you? so just making sure that like your PT is actually trying to get to know you and figuring out what your goals are and what your needs are. and then I would say business model wise, making sure you're finding somewhere that's like one on one with you. It's not you and another patient. It's kind of like a PT model I'm seeing going away, but making sure you're finding good ethical clinics that that are there to get you better. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, they take the time the individual time to to work on you. Dani Williams: Yeah. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: is it usually insurance based or or is it how how does the vet pay for it? Dani Williams: Insurance. Yes. Yep. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, okay. Well and that's where a lot of the times, you know, I'm not a real fan of the VA, but they can get referrals that go, you know, out of network per se to to somebody Dani Williams: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: that you're more comfortable with. I'd say it's a battle you would have to fight with the VA. But I would say it you know, it's your mobility and it's and it's rehabbing of an injury, it's worth a fight. Dani Williams: yeah, definitely. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah, and you'd mentioned a lot, you know, some people would put heat on there. They don't understand how the lymph system is is reacting to that evasive procedure that you had done. Can can you explain how the lymph has to be managed for a good recovery? Dani Williams: Yeah, so I mean for so many reasons, but obviously like after you have a joint replacement, you're gonna have a ton of swelling. and it's super important to get the swelling out because you wanna prevent blood clots. but also for pain. Pain's huge with swelling, and then just the risk of like muscle atrophy. So like studies show that if you have swelling within the joint capsule of the knee, it inhibits your quad strength by 80%. So you have ERIK LAWRENCE: my gosh. Dani Williams: like a high risk of falling and all the things. But yeah, I mean as far as the pain, this is kind of a gross analogy, but I feel like most people get it. when you have like a pimple under your skin, like a big one, right? It hurts. And you have all that pressure ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dani Williams: because it's putting pressure on those little tiny blood vessels and nerves. And until the like, you know, the gunk is out of there, then you have like relief of that pressure. So the way the anatomy of the knee is is you have a joint capsule. And so when that area fills up like a balloon, there's really not much space for those muscles, tendons, ligaments, and the nerves. And so people get a lot of pain. and so if you can learn to get the pain out, it's much, it's very like helpful. But like little things that I see education-wise is like someone will come in and I'll be like, Are you elevating and icing at home? And they'll ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dani Williams: be like, Yes, yes, I am. I'm like, Okay, well, can you show me what that looks like? And people so often they'll sit down and they'll prop their leg straight out in front of them like they're on a recliner. And I'm like, okay, like A for effort, but it doesn't work. ERIK LAWRENCE: No. No. Dani Williams: You have to get it above your heart level because the lymphatic system uses gravity. It's going to pump it back to ERIK LAWRENCE: It's Yeah. Dani Williams: the heart and get the swelling out. so yeah, just little things like that, ERIK LAWRENCE: Correct. Yeah. I Dani Williams: I see. So ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah, I always harp on on the education of the lymph system 'cause it doesn't have a pump. It's gravity fit. They're all one way valves, so you have to elevate Dani Williams: Yeah. Yep. ERIK LAWRENCE: or do an inversion table or something like that. And it's you know, I don't I don't even think doctors are that well versed in the lymph, I'm sorry. But I I think it's critical. But Dani Williams: That's okay. That is critical. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: how how about compression? or like a timed compression. Dani Williams: Yeah, absolutely game changer. Completely helps bump that out. Yeah. So ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, okay. Okay. And it also lets the fresh blood come back in, what I've noticed. Dani Williams: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: It kinda kinda gets the flexibility of everything going and it has to accelerate healing a little bit. What about red light? Dani Williams: that's an interesting subject. So red light is only beneficial if there is a certain like wattage that those red light bulbs are. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, yeah. Yep. Dani Williams: yeah, I mean red light is definitely healing and it's therapeutic. It just depends on what your goals are and how much what like wattage you're using. I wouldn't say that. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I w I would say a a c a commercial one, you know, made for that, not not some hokey Amazon thing. But I've I've seen Dani Williams: Yeah, absolutely. ERIK LAWRENCE: that eliminate a lot of inflammation also. Dani Williams: sit in red light every day. I'm a big fan of it. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, me too, and and I don't know if it works, but if it if it does, I'm good to go. If it doesn't, I'm still good to go. So Dani Williams: Totally works. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah, and and throw in some methylene blue, you know, who knows what you're gonna get there. but what what what's what's your typical challenges you have with a patient, you know, and if and if it's vet based or it doesn't matter, anybody based, but Is it just not being shown correctly how to rehab when you're not at the office? Or is it laziness or is it just apathy? Dani Williams: A tricky question. I would say I mean I really like I'm a big accountability person. So I think PT for a good outcome is truly a two way street. So I try to take accountability and ownership that if I don't show you the benefit of physical therapy or explain why we're doing what we're doing, then I kind of give people a get out of jail free card if they're not doing things on their part because I have failed to show them. ERIK LAWRENCE: Hmm. Dani Williams: The why, but if I have educated you and told you this is why we're doing what we're doing, this is gonna help for you to get your goals, I would say my biggest frustration is when you have lack of compliance or laziness. because I mean, I'm obviously very passionate for what I do, but like I genuinely care about my patient. And also they're a byproduct of my work. So, like physicians that refer ERIK LAWRENCE: True. Dani Williams: to me, I'm like, you know, if they're they're getting a bad outcome from their patient. They did this total neon. That's a reflection of me. And so, I like, I really do care about my patients, genuinely. I want to help them and like help them get better. but yeah, when people are lazy or they come and they're in so much pain and they're like complaining, I'm like, well, did you do your homework? And it's like, no. And it's like, well, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dani Williams: only coming here for 40 minutes twice a week is not it's not enough. so it really is like a relationship. Like it takes two to tango to reach the goals. So ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, and I I've seen that whole game, but some of my older friends, they've they've only have one original joint left. And they'll admit it that they kinda get surgery fatigue after a while. Because they've had Dani Williams: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: so many of these. My I mean my one friend that's had three right knees and he's like, Eric, I I'm not doing it again. I I'll just get in a wheelchair or chop it off or something. so I mean it you know, Joe Sevillion might get one joint replaced. A lot of the old hard chargers, I mean they're they're bionic men walking around. So I mean, is there any any lifestyle tips and or supplementation that can can I don't know help or or minimize the the damage once they've already done it. Dani Williams: Again, that's very like person to person specific. but ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dani Williams: I would say to keep it general, yeah. So lifestyle is huge for anybody's quality of life, longevity, being able to continue to do what you want to do. and obviously everybody knows this, but like things worth having never come easy. So sometimes you just like have to do the hard thing and not be lazy and be consistent. But it results in more happiness. So, like, of course, movement, right? So, like daily activity, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dani Williams: walking. mobility is huge. But I would say, like, I believe food is medicine. I mean, what you put in your body significantly changes how it functions. And so having like a whole foods diet is absolutely critical. I it drives me insane when I get people's medical history and they are on every vitamin under the sun. And I'm like, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dani Williams: Man, if you ate like an apple and an avocado and had some toast, like so you wouldn't have to supplement so much, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dani Williams: you know? And like you would be more full. man, we could really go down nutrition. But I would say supplementation, I really don't recommend supplements. I think the best supplement anybody could take that I tell everyone to take, whether you work out or not, is creatine. It is like one of the ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm-hmm. Dani Williams: most studied. It's phenomenal for. Brain health, it's really good for people. They found tons of studies with people with dementia, Alzheimer's disease. it's it's beneficial for people who suffer with depression and anxiety. obviously it affects the musculoskeletal system. So it's helpful there. so yeah, creatine's huge, a multivitamin, I would just say one to cover your basis. And then if you eat whole foods, should be good there. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dani Williams: yeah, otherwise, I mean maybe a probiotic and that would probably be it. 'Cause gut health is essential for the nutrients that you ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, God help. Dani Williams: absorb. So ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, the creatine they've really upped the number on that like fifteen to twenty grams. And that's where they're saying they get the the brain effect. And also, Dani Williams: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: you know, what's the downside of that? You just throw it in your your water or your mix or your protein shake and drink it. It's not like it's Dani Williams: Yeah, it's unflavored. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: a heavy lift. Dani Williams: And it's not expensive. Creatine is not expensive. So ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I wouldn't think so. I I mean there's so many different brands though. That's where I always worry if it'll truly metabolize. and you brought up prebiotic Dani Williams: Yeah, just a mono great. ERIK LAWRENCE: or probiotic, you know, fermented foods. I just watched a a educational video on that living diet the guy's preaching that and it's like, you know, eating normally f normal food but also fermented food. Which we've Dani Williams: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: done our entire existence because that's how you preserved food. And we didn't know it was good for the gut biome, it's just we knew the food wouldn't rot if we had it fermented. So I mean w we're Dani Williams: Yep. Yep. ERIK LAWRENCE: we always reinvent the wheel. I mean it's constant. Dani Williams: We do. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah. Well, what have we missed? I mean, physical therapy is a huge subject. Huge subject. But Dani Williams: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: I'm hoping something you say sticks to these old knuckleheads. Because Dani Williams: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: we're very bad patients. We we try to pride ourselves on that, which is counterproductive. I'm constantly talking guys into actually being a better patient, listening to their body, doing your blood tests, you know. And then with physical therapy, if you don't listen to your therapist and you don't have a good one, it's gonna suck a long time. I mean, it's it's Dani Williams: Mm. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: every day then. So why would you not listen? Dani Williams: Yeah. I think to touch on that, like, how do I explain this? What I find most often with just male patients in general, and this is not just males, there's obviously females that fall into this category too, but for a lot of men, especially but like veterans, it is hard to step into a setting where you're vulnerable in the sense of like you're not your normal, right? Like ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm. Dani Williams: Usually these are dudes who've been through it, like they've been through and seen a lot in life, and they're impressive individuals. I mean, they have really good stamina. At one point in their life, they were extremely strong, hardworking, talented, whatever. And so to be stripped of your function like that, like not able to do what you used to be able to do. I I noticed that when men are in here, they almost feel like they need to justify that. Like it sucks what happened to them, which I I acknowledge. And they're very frustrated and depressed to a degree that they cannot do the things physically that they used to do. And it's almost like embarrassing. But also I ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm-hmm. Dani Williams: think a part of it is just it's hard for them to accept like a new reality. That like the reality ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dani Williams: is is that this person you were before able to do X, Y, and Z, like that is not a thing anymore. And so I think that's where like the mental side of things can really come in. And so I would just encourage people that like the state that you're in now does not remove any of that, right? It's just the reality of the situation is that if you want like a better quality of life, like you need to mentally come to grips with where you're at and then make like ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm. Dani Williams: make the most of your function. Like some of the injuries I've seen from wars. Like I can't undo some of those like, you know, people who've come in who've gotten blown up and just awful, awful things. Like you can't undo some of that physical damage, but you can optimize the function you do have to have a better quality of life. And so I think just a, yeah, like finding somebody you're willing to like talk to about this kind of stuff as a PT because like what you say in these doors, like they don't leave. It goes ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm-hmm. Dani Williams: in my ears and nobody else's 'cause I'll lose my job if I share. You know what mean? So it's just a safe space ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dani Williams: and like a place to get better. So I would just encourage, you know, people who maybe are like fearful of going to PT or like hesitant, just make sure you find somebody who cares and like if, you know, you want a better quality of life, there's people here to help. So ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, it's it's hard for our bunch to swallow their ego and and and they had so much of their identity wrapped around physical fitness that it's I mean I've seen it all. Guys guys will hide an injury for weeks, you know, but instead of getting it treated. So it doesn't get better when they get older. So I I can see the issue there, but you know, I I I wish them to just shelf that And go, this is where I am now. If I do what I'm told at my PT, things will at least be better. And you know, we can minimize the damage. I mean, I've got some friends, they can't get out of chairs. You know, they can't they've just worn down to nothing. But then they mentally kind of have quit too, you know. So we've gotta motivate them in in some way to go, hey, we we do care about your your well being and part of that is, you know, getting the rehab you need for injuries that you won't admit to and then s reassessing, you know, what can I do and what can I not do and what can I do about it? So Dani Williams: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: that's hard that's probably the hard part of your job to see that, because you know, if somebody has a a car accident or or they lose a limb, they're obviously not going to go back to pre-injury mobility. and y you have to wrap your mind around that. I I've got buddies with two legs missing, an arm missing, an eye missing, and they've had to make that adjustment, you know, with with who I am now and then how do I get the best physical therapy help or the best surgery help to to make me functioning, you know, you got the rest of your life to do it right. Yeah. Well Dani Williams: Yeah. No, absolutely. ERIK LAWRENCE: Do you have any closing points? I know you gotta get back to work there. Some of us have to work, but Dani Williams: Any closing points, Mayor? Honestly, I think that covers it. I just think, you know, I'm obviously extremely grateful for like everybody's service. And I I can't imagine the things that, you know, a lot of these individuals have seen and done. And I think that, you know, obviously like everybody deserves like, you know, a happy life. And just If you're hesitant about PT, there are good ones out there. So I hope that, you know, this is like a encouraging, motivating little chat for those who need it. So ERIK LAWRENCE: Well I always say they only have to learn one or two things and hopefully it's worth their time. And they won't listen to me that often. So I have to bring Dani Williams: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: other people on to say the same things I've been harping on just so they can go, Wow, a doctor told me or a PT told me or somebody. that's just our typical we don't want to help each other. We want we want the outside help. So but I appreciate your time. I know you gotta get back Dani Williams: Of course. ERIK LAWRENCE: to work and thanks for your insight. Dani Williams: Yeah, thank you.