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What Will Brian Laundrie's Skull Reveal? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. No funeral for so called
0:15
Speaker 1: boyfriend Brian Laundry after Gabby Petito's remains found in Wyoming
0:20
Speaker 1: and what we believed to be Brian Laundry's remains found
0:24
Speaker 1: in the Mica had you reserve near the Laundry family home.
0:27
Speaker 1: No funeral, His remains will be cremated. This when we
0:33
Speaker 1: still don't have a cod cause of death on Laundry
0:38
Speaker 1: or a DNA match to Laundry. We are hoping there
0:43
Speaker 1: will be a DNA match. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
1:00
Speaker 1: A lot of confusion surrounding the case, including allegations that
1:06
Speaker 1: the Northport police mistook Brian Laundry leaving the family home
1:14
Speaker 1: for being his mother. Wait a minute, let that soak in.
1:22
Speaker 1: Brian Laundry, the prime suspect and the murder of Gabby
1:26
Speaker 1: Potato leaves the family home and the police thought it
1:33
Speaker 1: was his mother, ROBERTA. Laundry. Take a listen to Erica
1:38
Speaker 1: Jackson wink knees our Cut three ninety six. Northwawpg had
1:43
Speaker 1: surveie once set up around the Laundry home, but that
1:46
Speaker 1: strategy failed. The people responsible for watching the laundry house
1:50
Speaker 1: saw Brian leaving his silver Mustang that car parked in
1:53
Speaker 1: the driveway, and then they thought they saw him come
1:56
Speaker 1: back a few days later. But no, they mixed up
2:00
Speaker 1: Ryan and his mom like mother like son. Do you
2:05
Speaker 1: see the resemblance. Northport Police think Brian Laundry looks very
2:10
Speaker 1: much like his mom, Roberta. They're kind of built similarly. No,
2:15
Speaker 1: they're not ones a man and one's a woman. They're
2:18
Speaker 1: not built similarly at all. Take a listen to our
2:22
Speaker 1: cut three ninety seven wait knees. Northport PDE spokesperson Josh
2:26
Speaker 1: Taylor told me police started tracking Brian after Gappy Petito's
2:30
Speaker 1: family reported her missing in New York. That was Saturday,
2:34
Speaker 1: September eleventh. Police wants him leave in his Mustang Monday,
2:38
Speaker 1: September thirteenth and come back Wednesday, September fifteenth. I'm going
2:43
Speaker 1: to say Chief Todd Garrison made that comment on Thursday,
2:48
Speaker 1: September sixteenth, confident he knew Brian was inside his parents home.
2:54
Speaker 1: That changed the next day, Friday, September seventeenth. Well, needless
2:59
Speaker 1: to say that online has shifted substantially. Right now, we
3:05
Speaker 1: know that the family has left the home, but have
3:09
Speaker 1: just returned. Take a listen to our cut three ninety
3:11
Speaker 1: eight Erica Jackson Taylor admits it was a costly mistake.
3:18
Speaker 1: No cases perfect. Now we all know that Bryan Laundry
3:24
Speaker 1: went to the Mayakahatchee Environmental Park on September thirteenth and
3:29
Speaker 1: likely never left again. And if you look behind me,
3:32
Speaker 1: you can see that the Laundry's infamous red truck is
3:35
Speaker 1: missing from the driveway. The family's attorney tells me that
3:38
Speaker 1: his parents are currently breathing at an undisclosed location. How
3:43
Speaker 1: did that happen? It was a costly mistake. If police
3:50
Speaker 1: had recognized Brian Laundry leaving the family home, maybe his
3:56
Speaker 1: death would have been prevented. Maybe, before we come down
4:02
Speaker 1: too hard on the Northport police, they do say that
4:05
Speaker 1: they were watching him ever since the body of Gabby
4:08
Speaker 1: Petito had been found, or ever since they became suspicious
4:13
Speaker 1: of him and her disappearance. But to mistake his mother
4:18
Speaker 1: for him? With me an all star panel, Doctor Aaron
4:21
Speaker 1: Kimrie joining US. Doctor Kimberley, forensic anthropologist, director of the
4:26
Speaker 1: Florida Institute for Forensic Anthropology, University South Florida, and author
4:32
Speaker 1: of Skeletal Trauma Identification of skeletal injuries resulting from human
4:37
Speaker 1: rights abuse and armed conflict. You can find her at
4:41
Speaker 1: Aaron Kimerley dot com. Dale Carson high profile lawyer joining
4:45
Speaker 1: us out of the Florida jurisdiction. Also a former FED
4:49
Speaker 1: an FBI agent. Karen Start renowned psychologists joining us out
4:53
Speaker 1: of Manhattan. You can find her at Karen Stark dot com.
4:57
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, founder director of the Coldcase Research Institute at
5:01
Speaker 1: cold Case Crimes dot org. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
5:05
Speaker 1: Author A Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon and star
5:08
Speaker 1: of Annulat series Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan on iHeartRadio.
5:13
Speaker 1: But first to a Jeanette Levy, Emmy nominated reporter and anchor,
5:18
Speaker 1: what can you tell me about the announcement there will
5:21
Speaker 1: be no funeral for Brian Laundry. Yeah. The family's attorney,
5:25
Speaker 1: Stephen Bertolino, said that they were going to grieve privately.
5:28
Speaker 1: The remains would be cremated and there would be no funeral.
5:32
Speaker 1: Now we don't know if that means no private memorial
5:35
Speaker 1: service among just family, but obviously this family has people
5:39
Speaker 1: camped out on their lawn screaming at them daily protesters
5:44
Speaker 1: things like that. So I think that they probably would
5:47
Speaker 1: rather avoid any type of public you know, spectacle or
5:52
Speaker 1: any type of public events that would you know, bring
5:56
Speaker 1: people out to protests. More so, you know, they're just
6:01
Speaker 1: I guess, wanting to bury their son privately in some fashion. Well,
6:05
Speaker 1: at least the cremated remains. Yes, speaking of the remains,
6:11
Speaker 1: still no cod Take a listen to our cut four
6:14
Speaker 1: zero five. This is Jennifer Holton Fox thirteen, The attorney
6:18
Speaker 1: for Brian Laundry's parents, says in autopsy on their son's remains,
6:22
Speaker 1: described as bones by police, did not reveal a cause
6:25
Speaker 1: or manner of death. The remains will be sent to
6:28
Speaker 1: an anthropologist for further testing a post mortem examination taking
6:32
Speaker 1: into account the bones. Laundry's remains were found in a
6:38
Speaker 1: low lying area of the Mayaca Hatchee Creek Environmental Park
6:41
Speaker 1: where high water had receded. The fbis as the remains
6:44
Speaker 1: were underwater for weeks. Anthropologists will also be looking at
6:48
Speaker 1: soil conditions, temperature, and insect activity to help piece together
6:52
Speaker 1: what happened and potentially when Laundry died straight out too.
6:57
Speaker 1: For instance, the apologist and author joining US doctor Aaron H. Kimberly.
7:02
Speaker 1: Doctor Kimberly, thank you for being with us. I'm very
7:06
Speaker 1: curious as to what parts of the body, well of
7:10
Speaker 1: the skeleton were found, how the body became skeletonized so quickly,
7:16
Speaker 1: you know, in about a month, and how dental records
7:23
Speaker 1: can identify Brian Laundry when part of his skull reportedly
7:28
Speaker 1: has been missing. And let me be clear, the police
7:33
Speaker 1: have just issued a statement that rumors or false reports
7:38
Speaker 1: that the DNA did not match Brian Laundry. That's not true.
7:44
Speaker 1: There has not been a DNA match yet. To doctor Kimberly,
7:51
Speaker 1: how can you make a dental record comparison when part
7:57
Speaker 1: of the skull reportedly is missing. I mean, I don't
8:01
Speaker 1: want to accept a dental comparison based on one cavity
8:04
Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, right, And usually what we do when
8:07
Speaker 1: we make a comparison of dental remains, as we look
8:11
Speaker 1: at all the cheeth and what's called the morphology, the shape,
8:15
Speaker 1: the anatomy basically of the cheeth and the structure of
8:18
Speaker 1: bone that holds the teeth in the mouth, and then
8:21
Speaker 1: any dental work or things that were modified. Could you
8:25
Speaker 1: repeat that, doctor Camerly, You look at the structure of
8:30
Speaker 1: the bone, the jawbone. I guess that holds the teeth
8:35
Speaker 1: in place. So remember, I'm just a JD. So I thought,
8:40
Speaker 1: when you do a dental comparison, you look and see, oh,
8:43
Speaker 1: here's the cap on the wisdom tooth, here's a root
8:46
Speaker 1: canal on the bicuspid, and you deduce that no other
8:51
Speaker 1: person would have those specific characteristics. But you're telling me,
8:57
Speaker 1: and this is the first time learning of it, is
8:59
Speaker 1: that they actually look at the I'm calling it jaw
9:03
Speaker 1: bone for a lack of a better description. That's what
9:06
Speaker 1: they look at. The I would do. They look at
9:08
Speaker 1: all of it. Some people don't have any cavities, and
9:12
Speaker 1: they don't have any dentil work, so sometimes there is
9:15
Speaker 1: nothing like that to compare. If that's there, if someone's
9:18
Speaker 1: had crowns and bridges and cavity still did not, just
9:22
Speaker 1: gives you more to work with. But it always comes in.
9:25
Speaker 1: The first and most important thing is the anatomy. So
9:28
Speaker 1: you're looking at the shape of the teeth. Every tooth
9:31
Speaker 1: has a root that goes down into the bone, so
9:34
Speaker 1: you're looking at all of that anatomy as well. Wow,
9:37
Speaker 1: so you're saying they look at the shape is it
9:40
Speaker 1: the jawbone. It's the jawbone and the maxilla. So it's
9:43
Speaker 1: the top and the bottom right, the jawbone and the
9:45
Speaker 1: what the maxilla, which is the bone on the top
9:49
Speaker 1: maxillot is maxilla maxilla and any on the end the maxilla,
9:54
Speaker 1: and that's the top of the mouth, the bone where
9:57
Speaker 1: the teeth are embedded on the top. Correct, So the
10:01
Speaker 1: jawbone on the bottom, the maxilla on the top. And
10:04
Speaker 1: you're telling me that each twoth has its own individual characteristics,
10:09
Speaker 1: so it's not reliant comparedness. Sudden is not reliant on
10:14
Speaker 1: cavities or root canals or orthodontia. It's also reliant on
10:20
Speaker 1: the characteristics of each individual tooth and the jawbone and
10:26
Speaker 1: the maxilla. Correct. That's correct, And that way we know
10:30
Speaker 1: it's so unique to one person. Okay, I'm glad to
10:34
Speaker 1: hear that. That makes me feel much more confident about
10:38
Speaker 1: the process by which Brian Laundry's remains are being identified.
10:55
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Back to my original question
11:00
Speaker 1: I got you off try doctor Kimmerly, how would a
11:05
Speaker 1: dental comparison be made from Brian lonrys nown dental records
11:11
Speaker 1: to the remains found, a mica had to preserve if
11:15
Speaker 1: the skull part of the skull was missing, well, assuming
11:19
Speaker 1: that the dentition is present, that's what you need. So
11:23
Speaker 1: if that's present, what they would do is X ray it,
11:26
Speaker 1: and you would have the bones and teeth in front
11:29
Speaker 1: of you with the X ray of that bone and
11:31
Speaker 1: teeth and then the X ray from your missing person,
11:36
Speaker 1: and so you're comparing them directly X ray to X
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Speaker 1: ray and bone to X ray, bone and teeth to
11:43
Speaker 1: X ray. And so depending on how much of that
11:47
Speaker 1: is present, you would want enough to make a confident
11:53
Speaker 1: assessment that yes, this is that person, that it's unique
11:56
Speaker 1: to that person. To Jess got Morgan, Professor Forensics, joining
12:00
Speaker 1: US Professor Jacksville State University Joe Scott, it sounds very
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Speaker 1: much like what popped into mind is a ballistics comparison.
12:07
Speaker 1: When you have the known bullet taken out of the body,
12:14
Speaker 1: and you find what you believe to be the murder weapon,
12:17
Speaker 1: and you shoot a bullet through it, and you take
12:21
Speaker 1: that bullet and you put them both under the microscope
12:25
Speaker 1: and you determine whether the known bullet out of the
12:28
Speaker 1: body matches the striation marks of the new bullet. It's
12:33
Speaker 1: like a fingerprint. Yeah, it is, and that's a good analogy, Nancy. However,
12:38
Speaker 1: the dental examination is even more robust. Just like doctor
12:42
Speaker 1: Kimberley was mentioning the teeth, we have thirty two, So
12:46
Speaker 1: even if a tooth is missing, there's an examination that
12:50
Speaker 1: annotates that. So if you had wisdom teeth extracted before death,
12:55
Speaker 1: that's a significant investigative finding when you're assessing the postmortem
12:59
Speaker 1: rams that you have. And also remember the tooth has
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Speaker 1: multiple planes of identification. You got the top and all
13:05
Speaker 1: the size, and a tooth can literally be rotated, and
13:08
Speaker 1: that's the way Dennis look at it. They'll refer to rotation,
13:11
Speaker 1: that it can be rotating in the socket all the
13:14
Speaker 1: way around three hundred and sixty degrees like the compass,
13:16
Speaker 1: and they make note of that. So for every two
13:19
Speaker 1: think of each tooth as analogous to one bullet, if
13:22
Speaker 1: you will. So it's that's that very specific and so
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Speaker 1: many other indicators, I mean, the reality share on the
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Speaker 1: colum while we're saying there's no DNA match and there's
13:35
Speaker 1: no cod cause of death in the real world, the
13:40
Speaker 1: fact that these remains are found so close to his backpack,
13:45
Speaker 1: his notebook, his dry bag. I mean, you would have
13:49
Speaker 1: to believe that these items were placed there, planted there,
13:53
Speaker 1: along with an unidentified body or remains, which is very
13:58
Speaker 1: far fetched. It's far hatched. And I mean again, where
14:01
Speaker 1: would the parents get that, Where would they get the
14:03
Speaker 1: matching teeth? Where? How would they fake dental records? I mean,
14:07
Speaker 1: all that's too much, But I will tell you how
14:09
Speaker 1: this stems and how we got here. It's because people
14:13
Speaker 1: were not forthcoming and transparent and open and honest. We
14:17
Speaker 1: were told the wrong date, the wrong location, and some
14:22
Speaker 1: wrong facts. We've gone from the thirteenth to the fourteenth.
14:27
Speaker 1: We've gone from Calton Reserve to the my Hatchee Park.
14:31
Speaker 1: We've gone from oh his mom bought him a cell
14:33
Speaker 1: phone on the fourteenth, I mean that it's not possible anymore.
14:37
Speaker 1: And then we're told by the lawyer, oh, no, I
14:40
Speaker 1: reported him missing myself, and then law enforcement says, no,
14:43
Speaker 1: he didn't. This has been this whole case. If they
14:47
Speaker 1: had come out right off the battle the thirteenth and
14:52
Speaker 1: said Brian is missing, he left here upset and left
14:56
Speaker 1: his wallet and cell phone, we would have all been
15:00
Speaker 1: firmed that he harmed himself. But they didn't do that,
15:03
Speaker 1: and they didn't come out on the fourteenth or the fifteenth,
15:06
Speaker 1: or the sixteenth or the seventeenth either, Is that you
15:09
Speaker 1: Karen start No, Nancy, I was just going to jump
15:11
Speaker 1: in and Sanjeanette. I actually interviewed the lawyer last Friday
15:15
Speaker 1: and asked him about a lot of this, and he
15:19
Speaker 1: told me that he told the FBI on Monday it was.
15:24
Speaker 1: He said it was either Monday the thirteenth or Tuesday
15:27
Speaker 1: the fourteenth, that morning that Brian hadn't come home. He
15:31
Speaker 1: wasn't They weren't reporting him missing per se. But he
15:34
Speaker 1: said he told him that the FBI that and then
15:37
Speaker 1: that week they didn't really speak about it anymore. And
15:41
Speaker 1: he claimed the parents actually went out there that Monday
15:44
Speaker 1: night and looked for him at the Carlton Reserve. And
15:48
Speaker 1: he said that that area where they found Brian is
15:52
Speaker 1: where the dad went out there on October seventh and
15:55
Speaker 1: searched with the police, and he said that was the
15:58
Speaker 1: area they told them to look round before, but it
16:01
Speaker 1: was underwaters. To doctor Aaron Kimberley, joining us forensicanthropologist doctor Kimberly,
16:08
Speaker 1: the remains as we know them and there doesn't seem
16:11
Speaker 1: to be a full body, which would be two hundred
16:13
Speaker 1: and six bones. We don't know that, but it's reportedly
16:20
Speaker 1: not a whole body. All the remains have been sent
16:23
Speaker 1: to a forensiccanthropologist. Why couldn't the medical examiner determined cause
16:28
Speaker 1: of death? And what will an anthropologist be doing to
16:32
Speaker 1: id Brian Launder's remains? Well, usually when there's a case
16:36
Speaker 1: like this where the remains are skeletal or in decomposing,
16:40
Speaker 1: some sort of decomposition and then skeletonized, an anthropologists will
16:45
Speaker 1: get involved and help with ID but also help with
16:48
Speaker 1: looking at the injuries to assess the trauma. We will
16:52
Speaker 1: give an opinion and usually the medical examiner then takes
16:55
Speaker 1: that opinion and makes it part of their final determinations
16:59
Speaker 1: for the as its death. And so there's two things here.
17:04
Speaker 1: One for bones to be missing to me, that says
17:08
Speaker 1: a lot about how the scene was processed. When you
17:11
Speaker 1: have water like Florida gets these low line areas that
17:14
Speaker 1: during the rainy season becomes swamps and then half the
17:17
Speaker 1: year they're dry. But in that sense like what this is,
17:22
Speaker 1: bones will spread sometimes up to forty feet and also
17:26
Speaker 1: all the leaf litter, all that debris will get deposited
17:30
Speaker 1: on remains, so they sort of become buried almost just
17:34
Speaker 1: from natural deposition, And so you have to really excavate
17:37
Speaker 1: the surface. You want to make sure all the water's gone,
17:39
Speaker 1: pump it out if it's still there, and then do
17:42
Speaker 1: a really good recovery to find all those fragments and
17:45
Speaker 1: all those smaller bones. And in a case where if
17:49
Speaker 1: the skull is fractured, if it's in pieces, then an
17:52
Speaker 1: anthropologist should be able to look at that and say
17:55
Speaker 1: something about the mechanism of force. So was this a fracture,
18:00
Speaker 1: lunch trauma, from a gun, staloon, or from some kind
18:04
Speaker 1: of post mortem damage, And that's really the key that
18:07
Speaker 1: they should be looking at at this point. I don't
18:10
Speaker 1: recall any evidence suggesting he had taken a gun with him.
18:14
Speaker 1: If anybody on the panel knows about that, speak up now,
18:18
Speaker 1: and certainly don't forever hold your peace. But what I
18:22
Speaker 1: don't understand is how he could have obtained that fracture
18:26
Speaker 1: to the skull without a gun. How did that happen?
18:33
Speaker 1: What's your best guess on it? Dale? I look, if
18:36
Speaker 1: an alligator found a fresh meal, it'd be simple to
18:41
Speaker 1: crush the skull and eat part of the remains and
18:44
Speaker 1: the result would be you'd find tooth marks on that
18:47
Speaker 1: piece of phone that the doctor's talking about. I'm stories
19:00
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, how did Brian Laundry die? Take
19:08
Speaker 1: a listen to arc at four zero four from ABC seven.
19:11
Speaker 1: Along with Brian's remains, police say a backpack, a notebook,
19:15
Speaker 1: and clothing belonging to him. We're also found nearby, so
19:20
Speaker 1: we are. But whether they'll provide any answers about what
19:23
Speaker 1: happened to his fiance, Gabby Petito is still unknown. The
19:28
Speaker 1: notebook a possible key to so many unanswered questions as
19:31
Speaker 1: to what happened to Brian and Gabby, but finding those
19:35
Speaker 1: clues could take time. That will need to be processed.
19:39
Speaker 1: If you want to make sure that that's handled as
19:41
Speaker 1: carefully as possible. You only get one shot at these
19:43
Speaker 1: types of items to hurry up, and you know, rifle
19:47
Speaker 1: through that potentially damaging it, would you know, would not
19:50
Speaker 1: be helpful. As for how Brian Laundry die, that remains
19:55
Speaker 1: an unanswered question. Very weapons n I can't get into
19:59
Speaker 1: that information. Right there at the end, you hear Josh
20:04
Speaker 1: Tillor or Northwark PD being asked were there any weapons found,
20:08
Speaker 1: and he says he can't get into that information. Now,
20:13
Speaker 1: many of you have seen the photo of Brian Lonry's
20:16
Speaker 1: home there that he had at his parents' home still
20:20
Speaker 1: and there looked to be a gun. Was it painted red,
20:23
Speaker 1: white and blue? Yes, Jackie saying yes, as I'm just
20:27
Speaker 1: remembering it. I looked at the picture of a while
20:29
Speaker 1: back there was a gun mounted on the wall and
20:32
Speaker 1: I recall it being painted red, white and blue. Was
20:35
Speaker 1: it operational? I don't know, but it seems to me
20:39
Speaker 1: that that's the kind of thing Karen Start, NewYork psychologist,
20:42
Speaker 1: that the parents would notice if it's missing. It's I mean,
20:47
Speaker 1: right when you walk in you can see it up
20:50
Speaker 1: on the left side of the room, prominently displayed. If
20:54
Speaker 1: that were missing and your son were missing, wouldn't that
20:58
Speaker 1: have been revealed? So you would think, Nancy. But as
21:01
Speaker 1: is the case of these parents and the reason that
21:03
Speaker 1: people are so outraged, and believe me, I know, they
21:07
Speaker 1: lost their son and their greeting and that's terrible, but
21:10
Speaker 1: they've been totally uncooperative. They immediately lawyered up. They don't
21:15
Speaker 1: give any kind of information about where he is, what
21:19
Speaker 1: happened specifically, they say he left one night, then he
21:23
Speaker 1: left a different day than everything is changing. These are
21:26
Speaker 1: not parents who were really trying to help figure out
21:30
Speaker 1: what happened to Gabby, and certainly didn't try and figure
21:34
Speaker 1: out what after their son. I don't even understand that
21:38
Speaker 1: they would take the car and bring the car back
21:42
Speaker 1: if they knew he was still alive. I thought he
21:44
Speaker 1: was still alive. Wouldn't he meet his car? It doesn't
21:47
Speaker 1: make a lot of sense to me. Jill Carson joining me,
21:51
Speaker 1: high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville and former FBI agent.
21:54
Speaker 1: We've heard nothing about a gun being used. So how
21:58
Speaker 1: is a skull crap? I mean, it's certainly clear that
22:01
Speaker 1: that is a very small py area inundated. We know
22:04
Speaker 1: there are large predators, particularly alligators, in the area, and
22:08
Speaker 1: they love a free meal and part of their methodology
22:12
Speaker 1: is to keep that meal underwater for a period of
22:15
Speaker 1: time until it's palatable for them. So that's probably what
22:19
Speaker 1: happened to the skull. And when we have the skull,
22:22
Speaker 1: we can look to see whether or not there are
22:24
Speaker 1: tooth marks from a predator on that skull, which will
22:27
Speaker 1: answer that question. We have recent information that a firearm
22:31
Speaker 1: was found at the same park where Laundry visited with
22:35
Speaker 1: his family in September. Now that would be DeSoto Park.
22:39
Speaker 1: That's where he visited his family. The gun was found there,
22:43
Speaker 1: and a lot of people speculated was it somehow connected.
22:48
Speaker 1: I don't see how that could be connected because DeSoto
22:51
Speaker 1: Park it's not necessarily near where the remains were found.
22:57
Speaker 1: But speaking of the gun, wouldn't it be to you,
23:00
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, if he had used that to commit suicide,
23:04
Speaker 1: it would be very near the body, although it may
23:06
Speaker 1: be underwater exactly. So again, if you've got some folks
23:11
Speaker 1: that haven't been able to find the two hundred bones
23:15
Speaker 1: like the femur, then it's quite possible. But I'm saying
23:19
Speaker 1: they've recovered some, so I'm saying there's some they've clearly missed.
23:23
Speaker 1: So could the gun be there, Yes, because again, when
23:27
Speaker 1: the body comes apart and animals start to feed, those
23:31
Speaker 1: bones are going to be moved around. You've got a
23:34
Speaker 1: panther that could take an arm fifty feet, you know,
23:38
Speaker 1: So the body may not be aware, or the bones
23:41
Speaker 1: may not be anywhere near where the gun is. They
23:44
Speaker 1: have got to go back with underwater mel detectors and
23:48
Speaker 1: things of that nature and look for any type of weapon,
23:51
Speaker 1: whether it's a knife or a gun or whatever. He
23:53
Speaker 1: might have been, Doctor Aaron Kimberly. She had just said,
23:56
Speaker 1: it is this, right, Doctor Aaron, that because of the water,
24:01
Speaker 1: the bounds could be dispersed up to about forty feet
24:06
Speaker 1: and then with sediment the bonds could actually be buried
24:11
Speaker 1: now because of nature, right, So when we have cases
24:15
Speaker 1: like this, we will bring an anthropology team out and
24:19
Speaker 1: actually through the excavation with the agencies that we work with.
24:23
Speaker 1: We work with crime scene and will help set up
24:26
Speaker 1: the excavation and be there. You want people on site
24:29
Speaker 1: who know how to identify every bone, and we'll actually
24:32
Speaker 1: excavate the area and take it down below round surface.
24:37
Speaker 1: Because of these exact types of questions, we want to
24:40
Speaker 1: recover anything and hold on to that context because once
24:44
Speaker 1: you pick it up, your context is gone. Right, right, Cheryl,
24:49
Speaker 1: I just want to jump in and clear something up
24:51
Speaker 1: for folks, because I keep getting a ton of emails
24:54
Speaker 1: and text messages to say, there's no way he can
24:56
Speaker 1: decompose that fast. Here's the deal, lie, People in this
25:01
Speaker 1: slimming pool will start their hands and feet to shrink
25:04
Speaker 1: and shrivel in thirty minutes. That's a live person in water.
25:09
Speaker 1: Your body is already changing after a month in this
25:13
Speaker 1: extreme environment in water with animals, you can absolutely be
25:20
Speaker 1: skeltonized very quickly. What about it, Joe Scott, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
25:24
Speaker 1: And to doctor Kimberly's point, yeah, in this environment. I
25:28
Speaker 1: worked in South Louisiana and Nancy to start my career,
25:30
Speaker 1: and I can tell you it is harsh. It goes
25:32
Speaker 1: really really quick, particularly aquatic life that's around there. You
25:36
Speaker 1: have crayfish, you have other things such as you know,
25:40
Speaker 1: snapping turtles, so they're going to feast on bodies in
25:43
Speaker 1: this environment. The one saving grace though, is that you
25:45
Speaker 1: have this layer of water that's over the top. It's
25:48
Speaker 1: not like being on dry ground, so that actually acts
25:51
Speaker 1: as a protector in this environment. So you might find
25:54
Speaker 1: something down in that silk. We'll see what happens. Doctor
25:57
Speaker 1: Aaron Kimberly, did you just say you've seen skelets as
26:00
Speaker 1: take place in a week. That's correct, a full skeletonization
26:04
Speaker 1: in a week. Yes. If there's access on the outside
26:09
Speaker 1: ground surface to predators and in the heat here, it
26:13
Speaker 1: can be a weak wow, So it is possible. We'll
26:19
Speaker 1: seemingly never know if he stayed out there Anjeanette Levy
26:25
Speaker 1: for a period of time, say two or three days,
26:28
Speaker 1: trying to camp before he died, whether he killed himself
26:34
Speaker 1: or was killed immediately upon going out there, Is that true, Anginette. Yeah,
26:39
Speaker 1: we may never know, you know, hopefully the forensic anthropologists
26:44
Speaker 1: examining everything right now can make some type of determination.
26:47
Speaker 1: But you know, he didn't take the cell phone with them,
26:50
Speaker 1: so we don't have any pings to look at. My
26:54
Speaker 1: question is, my bigger question is if the whole place
26:57
Speaker 1: is underwater, where on earth was he camping? Because I
27:01
Speaker 1: thought the place was, you know, pretty wet when he
27:03
Speaker 1: went out there. The dad I guess that it was raining,
27:07
Speaker 1: you know, according to the lawyer that night on the thirteenth,
27:09
Speaker 1: when they went out looking for him. So where on
27:11
Speaker 1: earth was he camping? And where was he putting his
27:14
Speaker 1: stuff when you know he was out there, the dry
27:18
Speaker 1: bags on one side of the trail, the backpack and
27:21
Speaker 1: everything else as far as we know, is on another.
27:23
Speaker 1: So it's very strange. One other interesting point here, Nancy,
27:27
Speaker 1: is that is that they keep talking about his clothing
27:30
Speaker 1: was laying on the ground, and I can't make heads
27:34
Speaker 1: or tails of that because that's implying that he was
27:37
Speaker 1: without clothing or potentially So that's that's another interesting piece
27:42
Speaker 1: to this. And how's the bag visible, the backpack and
27:45
Speaker 1: this clothing visible, but his body is seemingly feet away
27:49
Speaker 1: from here? How would you explain that, Dodger Kimberly. Well,
27:51
Speaker 1: once the decomposition sets in and you have the bloating,
27:56
Speaker 1: and then that receeds and the I'm skeletonized, you often
28:01
Speaker 1: see the bones outside of the clothing, so it'll we
28:05
Speaker 1: even have a lot of cases where it looks like
28:07
Speaker 1: someone's pants were pulled down by their ankles, and that's
28:10
Speaker 1: just the process of decomposing and skeletonizing. So I wouldn't
28:14
Speaker 1: without seeing pictures and seeing again, that's why you want
28:18
Speaker 1: to process to seem like the archaeological excavation. You want
28:21
Speaker 1: to be able to map and look at that context
28:23
Speaker 1: and how things are associated, because that would tell you
28:26
Speaker 1: a lot about whether that could be the result he
28:30
Speaker 1: was wearing the clothes or whether he was never wearing
28:32
Speaker 1: the clothes. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. That makes it
28:49
Speaker 1: even more critical Dale Carson, that we know the day
28:54
Speaker 1: he left, we know the time of death, because in
29:00
Speaker 1: those days, if he were alive out there camping, and
29:03
Speaker 1: if he had been reporting missing on the correct day,
29:07
Speaker 1: he could have been saved and justice could have unfolded
29:10
Speaker 1: in a court of law. But now that will never happen.
29:13
Speaker 1: He was a suspect in that in Gabby's death when
29:18
Speaker 1: he came back to Florida. And what that means is,
29:21
Speaker 1: if you're an investigator, you go, wait a minute, he
29:24
Speaker 1: came back without her, that he may be responsible. I'd
29:28
Speaker 1: better watch that person, Okay, I want to interview him.
29:32
Speaker 1: And it doesn't matter that there's no pending warrant out
29:36
Speaker 1: for him in Wyoming. It matters that you're an investigator
29:39
Speaker 1: and you're investigating a potential missing person or a death.
29:43
Speaker 1: And the way you do that is you put a
29:45
Speaker 1: tracker on the car, which is simple to do in Florida.
29:48
Speaker 1: It doesn't require a whole lot from the investigative team.
29:51
Speaker 1: And you tracking and you do everything you can to
29:55
Speaker 1: interview him. Even though he has an attorney, he's allowed
29:59
Speaker 1: to talk to you. You just can't talk to him.
30:02
Speaker 1: And so that should have been done early on in
30:05
Speaker 1: this case, and it was never done. Similarly, the matrix
30:11
Speaker 1: of checking. That area where the body was found has
30:14
Speaker 1: never been processed properly as a doctor, and as Joe mentioned,
30:19
Speaker 1: Joseph mentioned, it's just they've stopped investigating his cause of
30:24
Speaker 1: death because I don't think they care. Cheryl Nancy, let
30:27
Speaker 1: me tell you the biggest thing for me. There's no
30:29
Speaker 1: camp and equipment. We haven't found a tent, We hadn't
30:31
Speaker 1: found a bedroll, we hadn't found you know, anything that
30:35
Speaker 1: he was eaten. There was no camping. He went out
30:38
Speaker 1: there for one purpose and one purpose only, and we
30:42
Speaker 1: know that now. We have stated very clearly that there
30:46
Speaker 1: is no DNA match. There is no cood cause of
30:49
Speaker 1: death yet, but that does not preclude us getting a
30:53
Speaker 1: DNA match. Can't you get DNA doctor Erin Kimmerle from
30:57
Speaker 1: the root of the tooth or if they's already skeletonized.
31:01
Speaker 1: Does that mean you can no longer get DNA from
31:04
Speaker 1: the bones or the tooth, Not at all. We get
31:08
Speaker 1: DNA from both tieth and bones, so it still can
31:12
Speaker 1: be done. It's just not done yet, and God willing
31:15
Speaker 1: it will be done. But speaking of mistakes, let me
31:21
Speaker 1: put that mildly. Take a listen to our cut four hundred.
31:24
Speaker 1: This is Allison Henning WFLATV. So the mix up happened
31:29
Speaker 1: back in mid September. This silver Mustang right here pulled
31:33
Speaker 1: up to the home. It is Brian's car, so police
31:35
Speaker 1: thought they saw him exiting the vehicle, but it turned
31:38
Speaker 1: out to be his mother in a ball cap. Like really,
31:42
Speaker 1: how does that happen? How do you mistake in a
31:45
Speaker 1: mother or a twenty three year old boy. It's a
31:49
Speaker 1: mix up. Many people are still trying to wrap their
31:51
Speaker 1: heads around. Officials with Northport Police were unavailable for an
31:55
Speaker 1: on camera interview today. In a statement, spokesperson Joshua Taylor
31:59
Speaker 1: told eight on your Side this misidentification did not have
32:02
Speaker 1: a big impact on costs and the investigation. Other than confusion.
32:06
Speaker 1: It likely changed nothing. There was a very good possibility
32:09
Speaker 1: that Brian was already deceased. He still needed to be found.
32:13
Speaker 1: Taylor went on to say the mixup was a direct
32:15
Speaker 1: result of a lack of cooperation from the family early
32:18
Speaker 1: on in the investigation. Well, I believe that is true.
32:21
Speaker 1: I believe the family, Brian Honor's family did not cooperate
32:25
Speaker 1: with police and that may have led to confusion. I
32:30
Speaker 1: got to defend the Northport police on that point. But
32:32
Speaker 1: take a listen to Erica three ninety nine wink. When
32:36
Speaker 1: the family reported him on Friday, that was certainly news
32:39
Speaker 1: to us that they had not seen him. We thought
32:41
Speaker 1: that we'd seen Brian initially come back into that home
32:45
Speaker 1: on that Wednesday, but Chris and ROBERTA. Laundry told investigators
32:50
Speaker 1: they hadn't seen their son since Tuesday. They later changed
32:54
Speaker 1: their statement to Monday. Or wasn't just someone else? So
32:58
Speaker 1: I believe it was his mom who was wearing a
33:00
Speaker 1: baseball cap. They had returned from the park with that mustang.
33:06
Speaker 1: So who does that, right, Like, if you think your
33:09
Speaker 1: son's missing since Tuesday, you're going to bring his car
33:12
Speaker 1: back to the home. So it didn't make sense that
33:15
Speaker 1: anyone would do that if he wasn't there. So the
33:18
Speaker 1: individual getting out with a baseball cap, we thought was
33:20
Speaker 1: brint And it goes on. You're hearing right there at
33:25
Speaker 1: Josh Hiller Northport PD. Take a listen to our cut
33:28
Speaker 1: for zero one. Now you know the family lawyer, Stephen
33:31
Speaker 1: Bertolino is going to weigh in on the whole confusion.
33:35
Speaker 1: Take a listen to w FLA TVR cut for zero one.
33:39
Speaker 1: Laundry family attorney Stephen Bertolino had this to say in response,
33:43
Speaker 1: I concur with mister Taylor that Brian may have already
33:45
Speaker 1: been deceased when Northport PD realized that they lost track
33:49
Speaker 1: of him. However, you can't blame the family because the
33:51
Speaker 1: police didn't know enough to follow someone they were obviously surveiling.
33:55
Speaker 1: Retired police Lieutenant Randy Boyd says, at that point in
33:58
Speaker 1: the investigation, police and their hands tied Brian. At that
34:02
Speaker 1: point was free to come and go. He was free
34:04
Speaker 1: to come and go as he pleased. They were doing
34:06
Speaker 1: what they thought was best and for somebody that had
34:09
Speaker 1: no charges. This is what Taylor said about the investigation
34:12
Speaker 1: just last Friday. If mistakes were made, their human air
34:16
Speaker 1: involved with every investigation, it certainly wasn't from a lack
34:19
Speaker 1: of taking it seriously or hustle or knowledge. It was
34:23
Speaker 1: just sometimes things happen. And Northport Police tell us they
34:29
Speaker 1: released information on this mix up to help the public
34:32
Speaker 1: better understand why they thought they knew Brian was home
34:35
Speaker 1: the day before they officially before he was officially reported missing. Okay, Yeah,
34:40
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, he may have already been dead when they
34:45
Speaker 1: realized the screw up. But the reality is, if they
34:51
Speaker 1: had not mistaken the mother for brian laundry, they would
34:58
Speaker 1: have known. I believe Earl that he was missing now
35:02
Speaker 1: that they also played a role in that, but go ahead.
35:05
Speaker 1: That means they missed the parents leaving together, and they
35:08
Speaker 1: missed the dad returning by itself in the red truck.
35:11
Speaker 1: They missed that too. But let me be very clear
35:14
Speaker 1: with you, there is no lawyer or police officer that
35:19
Speaker 1: would keep me silent for days with my child missing.
35:23
Speaker 1: And I'm going to tell you something. On the fifteenth
35:26
Speaker 1: when the police come out and say Brian is a
35:29
Speaker 1: person of interest, he won't cooperate, Bertolino and the parents
35:33
Speaker 1: should have lost their mind and said, he can't you
35:38
Speaker 1: cooperate if he ain't here and we're afraid something bad
35:41
Speaker 1: has happened to him. And they didn't do that on
35:43
Speaker 1: the fifteenth either or the sixteenth or the seventeenth, And
35:47
Speaker 1: that's on them. Jess got marking way in So Nancy,
35:51
Speaker 1: the timeline is the most essential piece to this. Going
35:54
Speaker 1: back looking at this and thinking, well did they did
35:57
Speaker 1: the police actually screw up in this case? Well, not necessarily,
36:02
Speaker 1: because as they said, he was a person that is
36:06
Speaker 1: free to come and go as he pleased at that
36:09
Speaker 1: point in Tom. But this idea of confusing him with
36:12
Speaker 1: his mother is something that is very odd in this
36:15
Speaker 1: particular case. How is that mistake made moving forward in
36:19
Speaker 1: this investigation because they should have been aware how many
36:22
Speaker 1: eyes are on this case, Dael here go ahead of case.
36:25
Speaker 1: Look in the Wayne Williams case, the Atlanta kid killing,
36:29
Speaker 1: we suspected he was involved. He was watched twenty four seventy,
36:34
Speaker 1: was followed every place he went, every stop he made.
36:39
Speaker 1: There was no break in his coverage that all the
36:44
Speaker 1: killing stopped. And that's the same thing that should have
36:47
Speaker 1: happened here. And I don't understand why an active law
36:51
Speaker 1: enforcement agency wouldn't pursue that with Electricy. There's also the
36:56
Speaker 1: issue of the notebook. Is it saligeable? All of this
37:00
Speaker 1: it's in an attempt to figure out what exactly happened
37:04
Speaker 1: to Gabby Potito. Take a listen to our cut four
37:07
Speaker 1: zero seven and Regina Gonzales Live now Fox. Bryan laundryes,
37:12
Speaker 1: a notebook, and backpack were also discovered in that Northport
37:17
Speaker 1: nature preserved last week, just a few yards away from
37:21
Speaker 1: where his remains were found. Well though the FBI said
37:25
Speaker 1: the area of the Mayaca Hatchee Creek Environmental Park where
37:30
Speaker 1: the discovery was made had previously been underwater. Investigators say
37:35
Speaker 1: the notebook could provide answers about laundrys of final days.
37:40
Speaker 1: When asked about the condition of the notebook and whether
37:43
Speaker 1: it had any legible writing in it, Josh Taylor with
37:47
Speaker 1: Northport Police told of Fox News Digital quote, it appears
37:51
Speaker 1: and may be salvageable. That really is a question for
37:55
Speaker 1: the FBI, though, What, if anything, can we learn from
38:00
Speaker 1: Ian Laundry's notebook? What is the truth of what happened
38:04
Speaker 1: not only to Gabby Petito, but Brian Laundry as well.
38:08
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds Nancy Grace crime story, signing
38:13
Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,