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How The Ultra-Wealthy Are Investing · Bloomberg Intelligence

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney. Alongside
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Well, it's really a
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: joy to speak to our next guest, Michael sanin Felt.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: He's the chairman and founder of Tiger twenty one. Tiger
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: twenty one is a peer membership organization for high net
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: worth wealth creators and preservers, helping them to navigate the
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: challenges and opportunity to that success creates. Tiger twenty one
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: has nine members with more than eighty eight billion dollars
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: in assets, so are really unique perspective and some from
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: the group of ultrawealthy UH individuals business owners that have
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: monetized their businesses. Uh. Michael, thanks so much for joining us.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: I love to get your thoughts on what your members
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: are telling you now that at least in the US,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: there are clear signs that we're coming out on the
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: other side of this pandemic. How are they viewing the
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: world and investment opportunities. Well, thanks for having me, Um.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: You know, it's an interesting time. In one sense. If
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: you were ripped rand Winkle and you went to sleep
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: a year and a half ago and you woke up today,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't be all that shock. You might not even
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: have known there was a pandemic looking at the financial numbers.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: But at this particular moment, I think our members are
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: digesting some incredibly mixed signals. On the one hand, uh,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of concern about inflation, uh, and mixed
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: messages about areas of the economy where there is inflation.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: And on the other hand, as you've just talked about
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: the you know, there's some question about whether that we're
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: in a bubble and whether we're at the top of
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: a market and how do you protect yourself? Uh. And
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: yet there are these long term businesses that have incredible potential.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: So it's a lot of mixed signals that feels a
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: little different than we've had in the past. It's pretty
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: much a spring back effect coming out of the pandemic.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I think, Michael, how are your clients preparing for the
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: changes that can emerge when it comes to taxes. Sure,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: First of all, they're not clients their members UM because
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: these are all people who joined the organization and we're
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: not an advisor, but we do get a sense of
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: what they're doing. We had a UM we had a
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: poll which was really interesting that showed with members that
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: when taxes grow more than five percent, differential behavior starts changing.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: And one of the things we talked about in our
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: groups we have seventy five groups across the globe UM
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: is you know what happens when taxes really rise quickly?
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Capital gains is the one we talk about a lot.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: There's some evidence when you raise capital gains above thirty
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: you may not actually increase revenue to the government because
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: people's behavior change and they don't realize as many gains
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: and it becomes counterproductive. So depending on where the changes
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: occur will impact behavior. Obviously, you have tremendous migration out
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: of New York into Florida and out of Silicon Valley
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: into Austin, just to use as an example, because when
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: you had the elimination of the deductibility of state and
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: local taxes, it made the high tax states really expensive
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: and for some people they want to change their lifestyle
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: as a result of it, again that five percent differential
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: start showing behavioral changes. Michael, I'd love to get a
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: sense of kind of what your members think about cryptocurrencies.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: A lot of investors just across the spectrum or are
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: a trying to understand what the whole world of crypto
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: and then be if I do have a working understanding
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: of it, how do I invest in it? So how
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: are your folks, again, the ultry wealthy folks thinking about
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: this space? Sure, so we tend to separate. First of all,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: our members are not only interested in crypto, but some
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: of them are running some of the new crypto funds
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: and have really extraordinary expertise. That's one of the advantages
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: about being in our groups. But generally the first order
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: is sort of a substitute for gold. Some attributes of
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: particularly bitcoin superior to gold, the most being that you
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: have a capped amount of bitcoin, so that you have scarcity. Uh.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: And historically gold was a one to three percent asset
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: across the average of our members, and today my guess
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: is that bitcoin is approaching perhaps a one percent number.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: You know, with a scale of our organization that's still
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: approaching a billion dollars of bitcoin potentially UM, but the
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: bigger story is the blockchain story. The blockchain story many
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: members think could be as big as the Internet itself
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: because of the disruptive nature UH that it will have
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: on trade, commerce and finance. So in the bitcoin and
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: in the cryptocurrencies, in the public area, you have things
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: like UH, I think it's great scale bitcoin trust and
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I think they have some other publicly traded trusts, so
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  Speaker 1: you can buy it like a stock, and it reflects
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: the rise and fall of the price of bitcoin. But
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: if you're interested in the broader and of course coin
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Base having gone public is the largest infrastructure play for
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: cryptocurrency and in the in the broader blockchain area, UM.
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  Speaker 1: Probably the number one UH company involved in blockchain because
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: of commerce is Amazon. Of course, if you buy Amazon,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: you're buying a lot of other themes as well. But
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  Speaker 1: over the long term, they, they and some of the
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: other tech giants really are looking at how blockchain will
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: change the world. I'd love to switch gears just a
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: little bit to another hot button area, which is real estate.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: With prices so high, are your members buying, are they
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: waiting or what are they doing in regard to their
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: real estate purchases right now. So so you know, our
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: members um joined Tiger when they have liquidity events and
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: have built a large, successful company. And the number one
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  Speaker 1: asset among our members has been real estate for over
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: a decade, followed by private equity and then public equity
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  Speaker 1: or today it's been reversed with public equity. Going forward,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: real estate is king and the reason is that's where
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: our members have expertise. But um, you know when they
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: say like still water runs deep. Um, if you say
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: the word real estate, it sounds like it's a single market,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: but there's no market more in transition. If you look
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: at the retail space, there's just uh, endless negativity going
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: forward because those Internet sales have changed the way people
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: buy forever. And if that's hurt the retail space, the
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: industrial space that serves those internet sales, the last mile
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  Speaker 1: delivery and some of the telecommunications industrial real estate has
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: been on fire. That's been amazing. And in the middle,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: you know, you have the big question about residential, which
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: is just the perennial favorite. It's income producing an office.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Everybody's gonna wonder what's happening with office. That's that's the
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: big question. Hey, Michael, Thanks so much for joining us again.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: We always love getting your perspective. It is a unique perspective.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Michael Son and Felt, chairman and founder of a tiger
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: one billion dollars assets. This is Bloomberg. Well, we did
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: get the I s M Services Index data this morning.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: I guess for the month of June it fell to
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: sixty point one versus the record sixty four May. So
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: that's not so good. The expectation was for sixty three
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: point five, so came in a little bit below expectations.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: That's not so good. But heck, are reading a sixty
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: point one in and of itself is very good. So
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: how to really pass through this? We welcome Steve you
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: should oh he's a chief economist for Miszoo ho Security. Steve,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: what was your takeaway this i SM data this morning? Well,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: I mean you kind of hit the nail on the
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: head a moment ago PUB when you talked about the
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: fact that you know it's down relative to expectations, but
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: the headline number is still in that expansion every phase.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Now this is for the service component of the economy.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: The manufacturing number are disappointed as well relative to expectations,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: but again still at a healthy level. But what's most
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: important about the data in here is the details of
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: the report, you know, the details of the report getting
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: at what was actually happening in terms of orders and
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: employment and things of that nature. Whereas where we saw
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: the weakness and the biggest negative surprise was in that
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: employment component, which came in at minus four. It came
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: in at forty nine point three versus fifty five point three,
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  Speaker 1: and that's really a fairly large drop. That's a six
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: index point drop in the employment component. And considering that
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: this is what's really being the factors that people are
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: looking at in driving monetary policy, especially after that solid
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: payroll employment number yesterday, I'll ask Friday in terms of
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: the headline number coming into eight hundred and fifty, this
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: disappointment tells you that perhaps the fifty numbers more an
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: anomaly than it is going to be the new norm. Well,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: what are some of the more complicated aspects of this, right?
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: You know? I S M had said material shortages, inflation, logistics,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: and employment resources continue to be a problem. Right, And
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: so it looks like you hit a snag and one
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: part of the economy and then it impacts another part
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: of the economy, and it looks like, um, there's a
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: bit of a tangled web of issues here. So how
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: do how does this number kind of stand when you
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: think about broader economic recoveries here? Well, I mean, look,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: the reality as the economy is going to put in
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: a very very good growth rate number this year. Okay,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: second quarter g DP our number seven and a half percent.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: That's a really solid number. But it doesn't compare to
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: the nine percent numbers people have been talking about. And
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: this data again doesn't fit with the numbers that have
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: people and being discussed in some areas. It consistent with
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: you know, a million workers being added every month between
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: now and the end of the year. In terms of
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: the employment numbers, these numbers are telling you that a
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: lot of the incentive to the economy that was provided
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: by the by the two point eight trillion in stimulus
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: that we were given UM earlier this year, between the
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Trump program and the Biden program, the nine hundred billion
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: and the and the one point nine trillion program, that
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: is largely run its course, and you're starting to see
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: the economy come back slowly to a more realistic growth level.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: It's still going to be robust and solid relative to
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: our historical norms for the next couple of quarters. But
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: the upside momentum is kind of over and done with.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: We've seen the peak in the economy and now we're
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  Speaker 1: rolling down the other side of that. Do you think, so,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: how do you think the FED kind of looks at
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: at that Steve that Does the FED feel like I can,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: in fact stay on the sidelines or do we think
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: back to the last FED meeting where the dot plots
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: got some people's attention about potentially tightening you know, again,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: when the Fed changes its dots in three which, to
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: be honest, it's a year and a half out um,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: you know, and people pay attention to that. That I
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: think is the mistake, you know, talking about going from
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: one dot to two dots in terms of one hike
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: to two hikes in twenty the end of twenty three,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: in an environment where the unemployment rate actually moved up
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: to five point nine percent from five point eight percent
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: when everyone's expecting it to drop. The five point six
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: is going to be a problem for those more hawkish
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: members of the committee because even though the employment number
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: was good at fifty thousand, the more political aspect of
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: this is the jobless rate and the household employment numbers
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: weren't particularly robust. So I think when you look at
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: all this, it's a really good economy. It's just not
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: as strong as people want to see to fit with
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: what we have seen in terms of the Hawks discussions
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: and the optimistic scenarios as to where this economy is
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: going to go. Essentially, members of the Committee and I
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: think a lot of people in the financial community have
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: written checked this economy can't cash into great economy, but
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: it's not as strong as they would like. I like
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: a little top Gun reference there, Stevens Judeo, chief economist
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: for Missoo Securities USA. I'm sure he's getting ready for
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: top Gun two, which I think is coming in the
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: fall from power Amount Stevens Judo. Good to have him
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: on here talking about this. I S M data still
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: pretty strong. Don't freak out. The bond market definitely paying
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: attention here with the ten uere you know, below two um,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: but still a good number overall. Looking at w t
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: I crude oil here seventy four hours thirty three cents
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: announced off about eighties cents, but it had been as
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: high as seventies six dollars and cents earlier Today so
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: this is uh, just moving higher. We've seen oil really
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: over the last several weeks, and all I know about
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: that is it's a commodity, so it's supply, it's demand.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: So I'm guessing demand ising, you know, more than supply
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: right here. So that's basically my analysis. Fortunately, we have
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: somebody much much smarter on this to explain it to us,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Fernando Valier. He's an oil and gas analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence. Fernando,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: let's start with OPEC here. Um, they didn't get it
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: done this weekend, So tell us what's going on with OPEK,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: what happened over the weekend, and kind of how you
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: think it might play out. Sure, both, First, thanks for
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: being for let me participate today. Um, there's a major
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: disagreement between OPEC plus in putting Russia UH and the
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: u A, the United Arab Emirates, And the big dispute
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: is really about when you set the baseline for the
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: OPEC plus cards their stock of extending the cuts beyond
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: A two. The EE doesn't want to extend this early ahead,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: but they are okay to complain with the cuts, but
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: their baseline for production is set in October, and they
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: added to tacity UH just after that. So currently the
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: EE has about a third of its capacity that's been
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: idled since the cuts in UM and so they want
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: to bring back. They want to reset the baseline to
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: be their production production production capacity as it stands as
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: opposed to October and as opposed to the Saudi Arabian economy,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: the EE is a lot more depending on oil revenue.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: So even though they're benefiting from the rise in oil prices,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: they're still struggling a little bit with the fiscal balance
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: without that additional production. Can you draw out what's at
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: stake here, because really it looks like it's the stability
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: of the global economic recovery. Oil is already at a
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: six year I what are the ramifications of a lot
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: of these delays and the volatility that's arising from them. Well,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: currently the biggest issue is just higher oil prices for
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: the short term, although right now they're trading down a
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: little bit. But without resetting that baseline UH and getting
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: additional volume, we would be and in the current status
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: grow of the mint recovery in O E C D,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: we would expect this UH in balance to continue and
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: drive oil prices higher. And there's actually pressure from the
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Biden administrations for OPEX to increase some of that production
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: back so we don't see a disparate impact on inflation
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: as we're seeing with other commodities. So that's really what's
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: in the balance now. And ultimately UH energy is really
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: um hinges on GDP growth in in gasoline and jet
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: on disposal income growth. So higher oil prices are actually
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: a long term issue for oil demand. So there is
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: an interest for OPEC to not get back to the
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: hundred hunder dollar oil prices that we saw in two
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: thousand and ten to two thousand fourteen, because really that's
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: what gave Ryan's to shale, that's what gave rise to
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of the UH improvements in my legion that
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: that really have curtailed oil and man. So Fernando generally speaking,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: where would OPEC like oil to trade in an ideal world.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: I know different countries, I guess have different break evens,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: and just give us a sense of how that works. Yeah, exactly.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: So the break even is opposed to a company is
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: not what it takes for you to cover your operating
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: expenses and everything else. It's because these these countries are
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: essentially almost at dependent on oil is how much what
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: oil prices they require in order to cover their fiscal costs,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: and that will vary from Pennezuela, which is into two
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: hundreds UH, society which is probably closer to fifty five
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: to sixty depending on their production levels and UM. So
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: the Saudi and Russia can can make do in the
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: six to seventy dollar range UM, but they probably prefer
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: anywhere between seventy to eighty dollars. I think that tends
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: to be a price where you can start to see
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: an impact on global demand. We have a heuristic that
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: when at total energy costs are over seven percent of
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: global UH the domestic product, it starts to be detrimental
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: to overall growth. So I think that gets you anywhere
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: between six to seventy five. I think that's probably their
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Goldilock scenario where they're making a lot of money UM,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: but at the same time they're not damaging a long
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: term reman. Can you give us a roadmap here of
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: what the next couple of days should look like and
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: what the conflicts might be in the interim, Well, I
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: think that's that's everybody's cats. Now. THEE has said the
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: meeting has been postponed, while SARDI and Russia said the
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: meeting was canceled. UM. So I think for now, at
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: least in the short term, we're going to continue having
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: these dually narratives. I think talks of the U E
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: leaving OPEC are probably not unfounded, but I think we'll
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: we'll get more pressure to at least get a temporary,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: at least a small increasing in production over the next
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: couple of days UH, and that could be coupled with
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: extending the deal beyond the current expiry. Hey, Fernando, you
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: mentioned earlier the U S shale producers. They have not
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: been the most disciplined lot historically. Do we expect them
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: to just start drilling again? Well, so far we haven't
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: seen that, except for the private operators. The public operators
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: have stuck to their capital discipline, and part of that
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: is because they have to, because they took on too
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: much debt during the pandemic and the focus now is
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: to reduce that debt rather than continue to grow. Um.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: You've seen anywhere one from chronical Phillips, who has always
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: been disciplined increasing share by backs UH to OXY that
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: UH hasn't always been the most discipline but focusing instead
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: of on debt reduction. So right now, when you look
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: at the track spread count UM, which is how many
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: walls are completed, UH, only the permian is up significantly
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: from the loads of April, but even that there we
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: haven't seen a return to twenty nineteen levels. So we're
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: seeing that discipline. Most of the growth has been from
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: private operators that don't have the same pressures as the
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: public ones, and the public ones have outlined more plans
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: to return capital as opposed to continue English to grow.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: What can we see coming out of Washington, UM, real
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: quick here, really in thirty seconds or so. What can
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: we expect from Joe Biden in terms of guidance? I
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: think mostly diplomacy as opposed to outward comments. The administrations
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: in a tough spot where they have to promote higher
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: oil production, which is really against their overall UH stated goals,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: but in order to prevent higher inflation that could be
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: damaging to the to the U S and global economy,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: they have to pressure OPEC plus to raise production a
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: little bit, but they can't be seen out the lead
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: to be doing that. So so so Setst. Fernando, thank
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. We appreciate it as
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: always your go to person for global oil. Fernando val
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: oil and gas analysts for Bloomberg in intelligence, looking at
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: w t I crude here, it's been a really volatile day.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Trader as high as seventy seven dollars for barrel, now
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: down trading down to seventy four dollars. So volatility continues
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: in the global energy markets. Will pay attention to OPEC.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. All right. Let's talk plastic waste. It's
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: a big, big issue for a lot of consumer products
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: companies as they try to combat this issue. There's different
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: technologies out there for doing that, and we as consumers
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: try to do our part by recycling. Let's check in
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: with marking staff and he's a deputy CEO of Carbios.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Carbios is a company that trades on the UNEXT under
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: the ticker symbol a l c RB, based in France. Martin,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us here. Talk to us,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: just frame out for us the global problem that is
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: plastics waste. Yes, thank you for inviting me. Uh. You know,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: three and fifty million metric tons of plastics are produced
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: every year, of which ten million metric tones end up
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: in the environment every year, So it's a big issue
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: and the issue is not plastics. The issue is plastic
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: waste because we have been producing plastics for more than
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: fifty years and we have not taken enough care of
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: the end of life of plastics and carbios. We are
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: the first and only company to develop biological technologies for
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: the end of life of plastics and fibers. Martin, maybe
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: you could speak a little to how large global corporations
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: like Laureale or Pepsi are able to be a part
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: of the solution better than the problem. They are part
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: of the solution, Yes, and they really feel responsible for that.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: It's a co responsibility, you know, to tackle this plastic
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: pollution issue. Nobody will be able to put an end
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: to plastic pollution by itself, so it's really a global play.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: And our partners, you know, laur Real Nicely, PepsiCo Century,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: they are very aware that it's by collaborating with a
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: startup like us, with governance, with NGOs that we will
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: develop solutions to really tackle this plastic solution issue, which
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: is not acceptable. Talk to us, Martin about kind of
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: what your technology is, what it does and in kind
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: of how it's being used. Yes, so we use a
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: biological tool, which is an enzyme. You know, we have
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of enzymes in our body. An enzyme is
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: a catalyst which triggers a reaction. Normally, it triggers a
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: biological reaction, but our scientists had the idea to use
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: this biological tool to trigger not a biological reaction, but
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: a chemical reaction. And this chemical reaction is to break
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: down plastics into its monomaiers, which are the common building
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: blocks of plastics. So instead of putting together the same
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: molecule sudden of times to make a plastic or a fiber,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: our enzyme breaks down this long chain of molecule into
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: single molecules which are called monomers. Then we isolate the monomaers,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: we purify them, and we recombine them again to make
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: new plastic with the same quality as plastics which are
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: made from petrochemicals. So it's a real a solution for
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: the end of life. It is not a reused solution.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: It's a pure recycling. It's a virtuous loop which we
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: have made possible. Are there certain types of plastics that
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: don't work to go through these technologies? You know, I
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: think even as an ordinary recycler people have to think
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: twice before they they do throw out or or recycled
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: certain types of plastics. And it's interesting to see what's
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: happening across different cities when it comes to you know,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: really the city is cracking down on certain companies using
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: and distributing certain types of plastics to the consumers. Yes,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: so today our technology works for polyesters, which is mostly ety,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: which is the plastics for bottles, but also a food
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: trace for example, or textile. When you see poliest on
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: the garment, it is exactly the same material than the
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: material which is used to make transparent bottles. So our
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: technology work for any kind of peg transparent bottle, but
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: also colored bottle or opeque or foot trace or polyester
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: T shirts. We can be polymerize or deconstruct all kinds
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: of petty waste to make any kind of petty product.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: So we can make a bottle from the bottle, but
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: we can also make a T shirt from a bottle,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: or a bottle from a T shirt. It is exactly
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: the same for us. In the future, we have the
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: intention and the goal to develop this technology for other polymaires.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: So our technology must be seen really as a platform
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: two to recycle any kind of plastics in the future.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: That's a fascinating technology, fascinating story for a huge global problem.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Just think about all the plastic bottles we see on
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: the side of the road or worse yet, in the waterways.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Martin Stefan, Deputy CEO of Carbios coming to us from France,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: we appreciate and again, you know that really is a
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: global issue, uh Sonali, and it's just begging out for
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: technological solutions in addition to more recycling, because only four
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: of plastics actually are recycled. Paul, I know people who
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: have given up shopping with plastics for days in a row,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: and it's possible. It's hard to do. Thanks for listening
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller. Put
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: on false Sweeney I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio.