Latest / The Daily Writer / How to Build Income Streams from Your Writing | Dan Miller

Transcript

How to Build Income Streams from Your Writing | Dan Miller · The Daily Writer

0:06
SPEAKER_01: Hey friends, welcome back to the Profitable Rider Podcast.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: If you're new here, my name is Kent Sanders.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm an author and ghostwriter, and this is the show that helps you grow your impact and income as a writer.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, I have to tell you, today's episode is really bittersweet because I'm rerunning a conversation that I had with Dan Miller from back in August of 2021.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: Dan was the founder of 48 Days, which is a company dedicated to helping you find or create work that you love.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: He was also the author of the highly influential book, 48 Days to the Work You Love.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: That book has been pivotal for so many people finding or creating work that they love and helping them to transition into something that matches their skills and their giftedness.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: Well, Dan discovered that he had pancreatic cancer last December, and in just a few short weeks he was gone.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: And it was honestly a major shock to the many thousands of people who knew, loved, and respected Dan.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: In the early years of my journey in building a writing business, nobody was more influential and helpful to my thinking than Dan Miller.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: In fact, I remember going to his Write to the Bank conference in 2012, and I felt so intimidated by being around highly successful authors and business leaders that I barely spoke to anybody the whole time.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: And it was really cool because he and his wife Joanne had bought this property that was adjacent to their home, and they had this old barn on the property, and they had converted it to this really cool event space.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: Some of you listening know what I'm talking about, or maybe you had been to events at the sanctuary.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: It held a few dozen people, and Dan and Joanne would have all these really, really cool events there for authors and artists and other people.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: And I could just picture it in my mind and exactly where I sat in the sanctuary during those two or three days of that right to the bank conference.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: And I just felt so overwhelmed and a little bit intimidated because there were all these really, really cool people there.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: And little did I know that Dan would play a really pivotal role in my own journey as a writer and then later on in building an actual viable business.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: But you know, even though, as I said at that conference feeling intimidated and scared and a bit overwhelmed, I immediately found that Dan and Joanne, along with the other conference attendees, were so gracious and kind and they really, really made me feel at home.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: It is no exaggeration to say that I would absolutely not have a writing business today if it weren't for Dan Miller.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: He impacted countless people, and some of those people in turn had a big impact on me as well.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: And I will forever be grateful for what Dan did for my life through his writing, his podcast events, and simply caring about me as an individual.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: Here's a quick story that was so typical of Dan.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: A few weeks before he discovered that he had pancreatic cancer, he sent me an email totally out of the blue.
3:03
SPEAKER_01: So back in 2018, I had sent in a question to him to answer on his podcast.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: And at that time, I was a college professor and I was looking to transition away from my teaching.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: Some of you have heard that story before of how I used to teach college and how I transitioned out of that job.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: But at the time I was still teaching and I didn't really have a clear pathway out of that.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: So on this podcast question that I submitted to him, I asked him if it would be possible to do it within five years, and if so, how exactly would I go about doing that?
3:34
SPEAKER_01: And wouldn't you know it, five years later, literally in fall of 2023, which was five years after I sent that email, Dan emailed me back to see how things were going.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: Now, of course, we had interacted in the years between then, and he knew that I was a full-time writer by this point.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: But I was absolutely amazed that he had remembered to check on how I was doing five years after I sent that message.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: I had totally forgot about it, but he hadn't.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: And he was curious to hear my thoughts on my transition.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, that was pretty typical of Dan.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: He was always an encourager who helped you become something better than what you could be on your own.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, on this episode, which again, this is uh it's bittersweet revisiting this conversation, but on this episode, you're going to hear some amazing stories from Dan's adventures as an author, including how he developed the first edition of the 48 Days Book, why a book can be like a business card, what it means to have Swiss dollars, and you'll see what he means by that, and also how his podcast helped to grow his business.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: And even though Dan is no longer with us, you can still access his books, podcasts, and all things 48 days related at 48days.com.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm honored to share this conversation once again with our podcast listeners.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: Dan, it is an honor and a pleasure to have you on the show.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for making time to be a guest on the Smart Business Writing Podcast.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: Hey, my pleasure.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: I love this topic, as you know.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: Well, I do want to take this opportunity before we dive into the interview itself to say I know that you hear this kind of stuff all the time, but I'm going to say it anyway.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate the way that you have impacted my life in a variety of ways through your writing, through your podcast, through the live event.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: I've only been able to attend one live event.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: That was right to the bank a few years ago, but you just had an amazing impact on my life.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: And I appreciate the way that you've expanded my mindset and about all the things that are possible when it comes to writing and just success in general.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: Well, my pleasure.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: Goodness, there are things that you know, I've been around a while, as you know.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: So there are things that people mentioned that happened some time ago, and I think, oh yeah, you were in it.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: Love that process.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, when I first attended the uh the Right to the Bank live event, I was honestly really intimidated by that whole process because I'd never been to anything like that before.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: Here I was surrounded by all these amazing people.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Kent Julian was one of the speakers, Ken Abraham was, and so many other people at that event.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: And I just thought, man, this is so amazing.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: It was like a fire hose of information and ideas and inspiration.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: So so yeah, that was really good.
6:24
SPEAKER_01: You you kicked off something uh very important in my life.
6:27
SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, it obviously uh took root because I've seen your writing, and uh I love to have people who have come here, you know, somehow been moved forward a little bit by something I've read, I've written, or said, and then I see the work that they turn out.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: My goodness, we've shared your writing now with thousands of people.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: Well, I appreciate that.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: It's uh an honor and a privilege.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: And as I was mentioning to Joanne just a couple days ago when I interviewed her for the show, I said, you know, of all the things that that you could be reading, it's an honor that somebody would read something that I had written.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: It really is, because there's just millions of books out there, so that's your real privilege.
7:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, it is.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: I was I actually spoke at a writer's conference just this last week, and there was a PR gentleman there from New York where they work with writers.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: He said that right now there are 4,000 new books being released every day.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: Not isn't that crazy?
7:26
SPEAKER_00: Not year, month, or week.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: Every day.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: Is that now?
7:32
SPEAKER_00: Of course, that that is good news and bad news.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: The good news is anybody can write a book and get it out there.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: The bad news is anybody can write a book and get it out there.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: So it it means that there's a whole lot of competition, but again, good content is gonna find its way to the top always.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: So we're here to talk about how writing has been the hub of your business.
7:55
SPEAKER_01: So many great things have come from your writing over the years.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: And I also want to help our authors who are l who are listening to think more strategically about their own writing.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: One of the things that I have returned to time and time and time again over the last gosh, six or eight years is a Venn diagram that you have made available, I think, in probably multiple books, your website, newsletter, talking about how writing is the hub of so many things in your business.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: And I would love it if you could take us back to the beginning, the very beginning of your writing days, when you developed the ideas for 48 days to the work you love.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: I know that started off as something very different than what it is now.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: Can you take us kind of on that journey a little bit of how that book got started and how you got started as a writer?
8:39
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I sure can.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: The the book really evolved.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: Rather than me just sitting down and saying, I need to come up with an idea to create a book, it didn't happen that way at all.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: I had it show up kind of unexpectedly.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: Here's how that unfolded.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: I was teaching a Sunday school class.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: Joanne and I were asked to teach a Sunday school class at our church, big church here in Nashville, on career life transitions.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: My background's in clinical psychology.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: I'd always been working with people kind of going through these inevitable transitions.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: So we were teaching a class.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, the class just grew exponentially.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: And I thought, whoa, what is up with this?
9:17
SPEAKER_00: I thought we'd have, you know, 18-year-olds who were trying to decide what to major in in college, or we'd have the 23-year-old who just lost his job at Burger King wondering what he was supposed to do next.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: And instead, at that class, we had chiropractors, physicians, and dentists, and attorneys and engineers and pastors who showed up saying, you know, people see me as pretty successful, but I don't think this is it.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: I think there's something more.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: I don't think I'm really on the right path.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, it really caused me to go deep in that whole arena that work is not just something we do to get a paycheck, but it really is an expression of who we are, what we're all about, why we're here.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: So I've had the privilege now for many years of working in that space.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: But because of the response to that Sunday school class, which we then moved to a Monday night two-hour presentation, so it wasn't squeezed in between sermons on Sunday morning.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: And we did that for eight years.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: But people came from other churches, other states, and that was the basis then of what has now developed into 48 days to the work you love.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: But the material was developed simply because of the request of people.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: I did not even at that point see myself as an author or writer.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: I always enjoyed writing in my college years, but was involved as a salesman.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm an entrepreneur from the top of my head to the tip of my toes, had no uh no idea that I would be changing.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: And yet the demands in this space where people were saying, I've got a son-in-law who's been without work for three months.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: I want him to hear what you just told us in this class.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: What do you have that I can give him?
10:52
SPEAKER_00: And I didn't have anything.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: And so ultimately I put together just a rough compilation of my Sunday school notes in a three-ring binder, put a little two cassettes in there with it, just to audio to kind of embrace the principles, made that available.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: Wow! And all of a sudden, in about an 18-month period, I sold over$2 million worth of that.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: We were selling them for$39 a piece.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: It was back when my buddy Dave Ramsey was just starting to ramp up his radio show.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: And every time somebody would call with a financial question, you know, he'd say, Hey, you need to talk to my buddy Dan Miller.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: You need to figure out how to increase your income.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: I can show you how to manage it.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: Dan will show you how to increase your income.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: And we just exploded with that message.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: Well, then that became a little more polished from the original three-ring version.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: Ultimately went to two CDs in there, but I never talked to a publisher, a library.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: We were just selling a fire out of that product.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: Then I was approached by multiple publishers saying, Hey, we see what you're doing.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: We want to put this out there in a traditional trade book.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: So then it was years into that that I agreed with a publisher to do that.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: And now we're just releasing the 20th anniversary edition of that 48 Days to the Work You Love.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: And I'm thrilled to keep getting it out there.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: Now I've updated it every five years, so it's not just like it was originally, and I keep addressing the changes in a workplace.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: A brand new version that's just come out has sections in there about how to use 15 hours a week to develop a side business.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: It has sections on digital nomads, how you can work from anywhere.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: So we address current changes in there, but the core message of figuring out how has God gifted you uniquely and what does that mean in terms of meaningful, purposeful, profitable work on Monday morning has remained the same.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: I love the 15 hours a week concept, and I've heard you talk about that many times.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: So uh last year I transitioned what I'm doing mostly to trying to build a ghost riding business.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: So I thought, okay, I've got to get focused on this.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: So actually in the back of my planner, I've got a little, this is what I take with me everywhere.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: I've got a little pocket in here, and I have printed out where you talk about how to allocate those 15 hours a week.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: And as you ramp up your business, how you know the percentages of time that you should devote to those things.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: So that in itself, I mean, it's one of the hundreds of great concepts from 48 days to the work you love.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: But man, that concept alone is so powerful of just how do you actually build a business and do work that you love with a limited amount of time.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: You know, and you're another example of how those concepts have developed.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: Again, I don't sit down on a cubicle and develop these ideas in a vacuum.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: They're in response to real people.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: And I had people who were coming to us who wanted to develop a side business, and what I saw was I saw them get stuck in one area, that being just the accumulation of information.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: So somebody say, I want to start a business, and six months later they had gone to you know four conferences, they listened to 70 podcasts, they read 15 books, and they never generated a penny.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: I said, Oh my gosh, that's not a business.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: All you have is a hobby.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: If you want a business, you have to generate money from day one.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: And so that's why I developed that 15 hours.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna spend those 15 hours, which most people can carve out, even if they have a traditional job, then divide it into these key areas so you are creating things that will give you an opportunity to generate income as well as accumulating knowledge.
14:27
SPEAKER_01: The thing that I love most about that book, among the many things, is that you help people to see that it's doable, that the dream that you have for getting a different job or building a business is actually doable, and there's a system to it.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: And I love how you lay it out in there.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: So it is just such a helpful process, you know, just step by step going along, going along those steps and making your dreams a reality.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: So one of the many great things I love about that book.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: And it is, it is a process.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: It's not just hoping and wishing, it's a process.
15:01
SPEAKER_00: You do these things, you walk right through to the life you really want.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: So, why 48 days?
15:08
SPEAKER_01: I know you've you've talked about this elsewhere, but 48 days is a unique number.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: It's very specific.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: What was the importance when you were developing these concepts way back when?
15:18
SPEAKER_01: What was the importance of having that really specific 48 days concept as opposed to writing a book about trying to find a job or a career book or something that was more generic?
15:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd I'd love to tell you it was some you know two-year longitudinal study where we did a lot of replaying.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't that at all.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: And again, I'm I'm an entrepreneur, I'm I'm a ready fire aim kind of guy.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: And what happened is I saw people who would come in and say, gee, my work life really stinks.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, and we'd map out a new plan of action.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: And I see them a year later, hey, how's it going?
15:54
SPEAKER_00: They hadn't done anything.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: I thought you've got to be kidding me.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, we mapped out a plan, and they were so I figured out they're waiting till the kids get out of high school, till they finish a degree, till they pay off the mortgage, or whatever it is.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: But there's always some reason that they're waiting until all the lights are green to move.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: And I said, This is nuts.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: There's got to be a timeline in which people commit to this where they can really change their lives dramatically.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: Now, this was back when 48 hours was becoming popular as a TV show.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: And being a marketing guy, being an entrepreneur, I thought, I'll bet I could get some branding carryover recognition from the 48.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: And I like the sound of it.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: It was very, very arbitrary in terms of me trying it.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: And we just thought we'd do it as a lark.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: We'd just try it, just as an experiment, just as a fun experiment.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: You know, find the work you love in 48 days.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: When I did that, can't it was like somebody threw gasoline on everything I was doing.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: I had people showing up, you mean I really can't change my life in 48 days?
16:53
SPEAKER_00: And my answer then as it is now is yes, you can if you create a plan and act on it.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: But I think 48 days is enough.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: I've verified this many times, is enough time to clarify your current situation, to get the advice and opinion of other people, to narrow down your options to four or five, to do a little bit more research, to choose one and act.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: And if you go through that process, you make any major decision in that period of time.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's worked like magic.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: What's also happened, and you kind of alluded to this, instead of having a book that's titled, you know, Find the Work You Love, what that does, that puts me in a camp where there are thousands of other books out there.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: There's lots of things written about finding work you love, starting a business, following your passion, all those things.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: But there's only one 48 days to the work you love.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: And here's how that works to my advantage.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm known still as a career coach.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: I still help people through these inevitable relentless transitions.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: So if you do a Google search and you put in career coach, you're gonna get literally 14, 15 million sites.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm in there somewhere, I'm sure.
18:05
SPEAKER_00: I have no idea where, and it doesn't really matter because that's not what I'm known for.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: You put in 48 days in a Google search, I own it.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: I own the first couple pages, not through some fancy SEO or because I'm paying for ads or anything like that.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: It's just because I'm the guy who says that.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I encourage people to do as they're looking for work that's meaningful.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: What makes you unique?
18:28
SPEAKER_00: Don't just be one more of sameness.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: What is it that makes you unique?
18:33
SPEAKER_00: What makes you stand out?
18:34
SPEAKER_00: And whether that's as a writer or as a speaker or as a coach or as a guy who mows yards, what makes you unique from everybody else?
18:42
SPEAKER_00: 48 days has been my magic pill.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: And you have integrated 48 days into so many different things.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: I remember getting a box of stuff from you.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: This has been maybe a couple of years ago, and I think there were 48 minutes or 48 pieces of candy in the box.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: And your podcast, I know you strive for it to be around 48 minutes long.
19:03
SPEAKER_01: It's just it's amazing how you've integrated that one single simple concept into everything.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: And I love it.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: It's really fantastic.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: We've really carried that forward in so many ways.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: And it's funny, you know, it's that reticular activator.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: When something's on your mind, you tend to see it more.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: So if I buy Joanne a red Volvo, gee, the next day I see six of them driving around here in Franklin, Tennessee.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: It's not that people went out yesterday and bought those, it's that now it's on my mind.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: And with 48 days, and I got a bunch of grandkids, as you know, and they just are blown away at how frequently that shows up.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: 48.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I went to a restaurant the other day and they got my number to go sit down and wait in my order.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: Guess what number I had?
19:46
SPEAKER_00: 48.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: Uncanny how often it shows up.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it has and continues to serve me well.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: One of the things that you have done in your business, of course, is developed lots of different streams, lots of different ways of integrating your message into the Eagles, the 48 Days Eagles community, which I'm uh a thrilled member of and thrilled to promote that.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: And it's been so impactful in my life.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: Of course, books, live events, workshops, all kinds of different products, and so many different things.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: And you talk about how your book is like a business card in that it doesn't end with just a book and how the book is actually the jumping off point for so many other things.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: What do you mean when you talk about the fact that a book is like a business card for those who have never heard that concept before?
20:31
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: And I love sharing this with authors because authors typically write a book, send a manuscript in if they have a publishing deal, and then they think their work is over.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: You know, now they're gonna go sit in a lawn chair by the mailbox and get those fat royalty checks.
20:45
unknown: Well, I don't know.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna be waiting a while.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: I don't know of any author who hasn't been disappointed in that process.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: And I certainly don't wait on that.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: What I want is for my book to get the core message out there, but then for me to provide other services and products that springboard from that core message.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: So we have products, as you know, you know, so somebody buys a$20 book.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna get$1.50 royalty from that, you know, through my publisher, whatever it happens to be, but that's kind of an average, and they get the book.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: Should that be the end of the deal?
21:21
SPEAKER_00: No.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: When they get to page 105 in that book, they're gonna see me talking about personality styles.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: And I go through the disc styles, D, I, S, and C.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: You ought to be able to identify yourself from these characteristics.
21:35
SPEAKER_00: If you want a more comprehensive report, go to this link.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: I will give you a discount on a report that'll go more in depth about who you are.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: That report is twenty eight dollars and fifty cents.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: We have thousands of people every month that go and get that report.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: That's just one example.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: You mentioned you've come to live events.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: We have had lots and lots of live events here.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: We usually max the room out our Sanctuaries, you know, we pack people in there and the events are$1,000.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: So every time we have one of those, you know,$60,000.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: I have a coaching program to help people learn how to be a coach.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: That's$4,800.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: We have a program that I do to help people through where I coach them personally.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: That's$4,800.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: Now I have a mastermind of$6,000 a year.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: Those are the kind of things that people are introduced to as a result of the book.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: So the book, when I create that Venn diagram that you alluded to earlier, the financial projections I have for the book itself is zero.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: Now, do I get royalty checks?
22:40
SPEAKER_00: Yes, 48 Days is the New York Times bestseller, continues to sell lots and lots of copies.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: I have other books like Wisdom Meets Passion, Rudder of the Day, and No More Dreaded Mondays.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, I have books out there and I am thrilled to be a writer.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: But here's something that people are probably going to be surprised at.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: Last year, when I look at my income and I look at the royalties and advances that I got from books that are New York Times best-selling books, books that continue to do well, the percentage of my income that came from royalties was 2.76%.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: And you've got a lot of books out there.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: I do.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: I do.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: And people assume, well, gee, as an author, you know, I'm a millionaire.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, if I were depending on royalties from my books, I would not be living the kind of life that Joanne and I live today.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: Not at all.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: It's just totally counter to what most people expect.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: Now, I love to encourage authors, but if you get a book out there, see that as just the tip of the iceberg.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: What is that going to lead to?
23:48
SPEAKER_00: What is that going to what is the call to action in there?
23:52
SPEAKER_00: How do people have an opportunity to engage with you?
23:54
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, with this brand new edition that we just put out, every chapter has reasons for people to connect with other things that we do in the 48 Days community.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: We'll get back to the conversation in just a moment.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: But first, I want to take a second to give a big thanks to today's sponsor, The Word Wizard.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: Now, you might have written an awesome book, but it's not ready for publication until it's been in the hands of a master editor.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: That's why my friend Karen Hunsinger, also known as The Word Wizard, is the perfect partner to help you craft the highest quality book possible.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: And the reason is that a great editor doesn't just correct grammar and spelling, they also correct wordiness, shifts in tone and voice, overuse of particular words and phrases, and they also enhance transitions, clarity, and accuracy.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: I've worked with Karen many times, and trust me, she is your secret weapon for crafting an amazing book.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: Visit Karen Hunsinger.com for a free sample edit today.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: That's KarenHunsinger.com to get your free sample edit today.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: Now back to the conversation.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: So for somebody who is listening who is, they think of themselves as primarily a writer, and they don't think of themselves as an entrepreneur.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: I would put myself in that category to some degree.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, in my day job, I'm a college professor.
25:15
SPEAKER_01: I've always been a teacher, come from a pastoral ministry background.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: It's been a challenge for me to learn to think like a business person.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: For those who are listening who would put themselves in that category, how do you start to think more like an entrepreneur and a business person and not just a writer?
25:31
SPEAKER_01: And where do you where do you even start that process and not just get paralyzed by all the possibilities, but you just take maybe take that next step into building a business from your book or from your message?
25:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's a very legitimate question because I know not everybody is wired as I am.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: I love those opportunities that really are business kind of ventures.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: But if somebody is not an entrepreneur, even if somebody is more introverted and shy, you know, we were talking earlier about authors that we admire who tend to be energized by solitude, not interested in fame and fortune.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: They're thought leaders, and I love reading people like that.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: But if we look at the list of opportunities that are available, and in the Venn diagram, you know, I have live events, I have other products, I have speaking, affiliate commissions, coaching, and membership sites.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we can go on and on there.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to do everything, but choose carefully, one or two.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: So if you are not an entrepreneur, but you really are an author, and especially coming out of an academic environment as you are, think immediately about how can I create a course for people to go through?
26:42
SPEAKER_00: How could I do, in addition to the traditional book, an e-book?
26:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, you might have four ebooks that you could have as derivatives of your primary work and put together that course.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: You may do three times a year, a Saturday morning seminar to teach those principles.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: If you write a book about how to deal with um children who have autism, wow, you could put together, you know, to encourage a parent and put that together.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: If you had a book on any topic, you might decide, I could do a membership site.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are membership sites out there for people who enjoy herbs, literally, you know, rosemary time herbs, where they pay$10 a month just to have a place where they can talk about concepts that they're mutually interested in.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: And that particular site I know has over 3,000 members, not big numbers, you know, you not like you numbers you have to have for a New York Times bestseller or anything like that.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: If you have 3,000 members, we're paying$10 a month because you have a common interest.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: That's$30,000 a month.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: I mean, and most authors don't think like that.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: Instead of they think about the very tiniest potential source of income and overlook the elephants in the room that would give them big chunks of income by leveraging the very same message they put in a book.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: Here's another here's another thing, and is that I put a lot of content out there, not as a book that's going to be$12 on a shelf somewhere, but as a binder, three-ring binder.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: I mentioned early on, that's what I was doing.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: Right to the bank.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: You said that you came, you know, to the course that we had on that, but we also have that as a three-ring binder still today.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: And it was massive.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: It was a big, massive thing.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh my gosh, this is like a treasure trove.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: You know, it has a different feeling to it than a PDF document.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: It does indeed.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: So it's a physical product, three-ring binder, two CD, audio CDs in there, and it's$197.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: Now the content in there is less content than I could put in a$12 paperback book.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: But people view it differently if it's put out as an instructional manual rather than just another book.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: But there are so many things that authors can, so many things that they can do.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: You can be a resource of information where instead of you just having to write and create everything originally your own, where you link to other books.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I make a lot of money on books that I did not write, other books that complement my message, you know, how to make use of a useless degree, you know, mompreneurs, books like that that went out of print, and I would buy all the copies I could get my hands on so that when people were buying my books, I'd say, here's something else that is relevant content you might be interested in.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: So I may buy a book that was selling for$14.95 and I buy them all day long for like a dollar and thirty cents.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: And then we put them on our site to be accompanying pieces.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: Only$8.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: This book retails for$14.95.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: You can get it today for only$8.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: Well, again, you look at the margin, I'm making$6.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: Authors don't make that in their own royalty.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which is great.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: But you can do that by being a source of information in a particular focus topic.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: I've also heard you talk before about the importance of public domain content and how that is just a wide open area that a lot of people don't really think about or take advantage of.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: Is that something now?
30:12
SPEAKER_01: I know uh the Aaron Kerr has been very successful with that, and I've actually reconnected with him recently and actually went through his course on that.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: And I thought, wow, that's a huge opportunity.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: Maybe so many of us are missing because it's free out there.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: You can just republish it and make money from it.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't cost anything.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: Oh my, I love that area.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: I have threatened for years that one of these one of these years, I'm gonna take a whole year off and do nothing but just mine the riches in a way.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: And you know, that what that means for your listeners is you know, material that where there are no copyright issues and anything published before 1923 is in that and a lot of other things as well.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: But you know what what we want to think about, if you are a writer, you want to be thought of as a thought leader, not just because you have the ability to put words down on a piece of paper, but you're a thought leader in a particular topic.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: So you can go back and find content that is in the public domain and repurpose that, make it your own, write a new forward.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: I have things like Acres of Diamonds, the old rich little document from Russell Conwell on finding your opportunity right under your nose.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: I wrote a forew to it, polished, brought the language up to date a little bit, and we do that as a giveaway.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's so much.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I there are just millions of documents and millions of dollars to be made.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: And Aaron Kerr, who you mentioned, has done a really brilliant job of that.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: He took a compilation of Anne of Green Gables, put it together for 99 cents.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: Not a whole lot of money, but nothing that he wrote, nothing he struggled over to create the words or the thoughts.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: He put it together.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: There was one day when he had 7,643 people purchase that little compilation.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: That's still a pretty decent day for a writer.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: If my path is very decent.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: One of the things that I know that is very close to your heart and a core piece of your business is your podcast, 48 Days to the Work You Love.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: I've been listening to it for years.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: In fact, it's one of the shows, it might be the first podcast that I ever listened to, way back in the day, probably 10 years ago or so.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: Can you talk a little bit about how how or talk about the the role that the podcast has played in your overall business as far as building your community, selling products, getting your message out there?
32:32
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, again, great, great question because when you have a message to get out there, it's not like the old days where we'd say, you know, build a better mousetrap, the world will be the path to your door.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: Those days are pretty much over.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: You can have a better mousetrap and die in obscurity.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: You have to try what am I going to do to let people know?
32:53
SPEAKER_00: So framing it any way you want to, marketing, branding, selling, you have to have something in place to let people know what it is you're doing.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: The podcast, I have never ever experienced a more powerful marketing tool than a podcast.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: I came off of six years of traditional terrestrial radio before I went into the podcast, started the podcast in uh December of 2006.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: So I've been around a while doing that.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: Uh never missed a week.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: And the the podcast, the podcast provides such an intimate connection with people.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: It's much different than posting an ad on Facebook, you know, or buying an ad somewhere in print magazine.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: It's very, very different than that.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: It can it provides a connection with people, you know, from doing a podcast here, where there's a level of trust and intimacy unlike anything I've ever experienced.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
33:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I would have people that I meet somewhere and they shake my hand and thank me for the books because the books have really helped them.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: Or people who, you know, pat me on the back and say, Golly, I love getting your newsletter that I put out every week for it'll be 20 years in August, every week that I put that out without exception.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: And there's that, but then there's people who come up that I've never met before, tears running down their face, and Dan, you don't will never know how you've changed my life.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: Those are podcast listeners 100%.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: I know that they don't have that kind of connection to me, having never met me before in person, unless they're podcast listeners.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: And if they are, what that means then, without just flipping the switch here to Crassley, is those people buy everything I come up with.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: So they are.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the podcast fuels everything else that I do.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: When I mention, you know, live events, other products, membership sites, affiliate recommendations that I have, speaking opportunities, it fuels all of those things in a way that nothing else has ever come close.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's interesting.
34:57
SPEAKER_01: You mentioned the intimacy that you can develop with the podcast listener.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: I can think of specific times, and maybe this is just me, or maybe this is other people in general, where I do a lot of hiking in the woods.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: I can think of specific times where I've been hiking, and I can remember the questions that you were addressing and what you were talking about specifically as I'm picturing specific places in the woods as I'm hiking on a trail.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: There's just I know that sounds weird, but there's something about having your your voice as a podcaster in people's heads that it's activating something as far as our memory or our imagination, or I don't know what it is, but it's far more intimate and emotional than it is, you know, just just reading something that somebody's written, for me at least.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: Oh my.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: Well, I I hear that kind of sentiment again and again and again.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: I love the power of the podcast.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: Now, thankfully, it's just one technology tool that we have.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: There will be others.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: Will I be doing a podcast 10 years from now?
35:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: I mean, but what happened is again that you've kind of gone through the chronology here of what I've done.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: I started with a Sunday school class, then I went to a weekly open seminar, then I went to radio, and then I went to podcasting each time 10 times in my audience.
36:15
SPEAKER_00: So you show me the next tool that gives me a 10-time boost, I'm there.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm not married to podcasting, but right now I don't know of anything else as powerful.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: I say we make a run for Netflix.
36:31
SPEAKER_01: I'd love that.
36:32
SPEAKER_01: You deserve a Netflix show Netflix series.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's funny.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: I have been approached by uh some concepts for TV, and I resist the time commitment that those allow.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: Again, being a writer, I like being in control of my own time.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: I am energized by solitude.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: I like long stretches.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: I have two days a week devoted to what I call deep work, where I just work on these major projects, and I don't want it to be uh interrupted by things that infringe on my time.
37:00
SPEAKER_00: But certainly there may be something else in on the horizon.
37:04
SPEAKER_01: One final thing I'd love to dig into for for just a moment or two is the power of the Eagles community.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: I am I loved it when you launch your paid Eagles community.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: Has it been two years?
37:14
SPEAKER_01: Three years?
37:15
SPEAKER_01: Three years.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: Three years, okay.
37:17
SPEAKER_01: I loved it when you launched that because I remember I was one of the people on 48days.net.
37:21
SPEAKER_01: I think that's what it was, way back when.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: Loved that, and I made so many connections there, made so many friends there.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: And in many ways, that was responsible for anything that I've done up till this point, really, that was the beginning of it, just connecting with people there.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: And then when you launched a paid group, I was like, done.
37:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm on totally on board with this.
37:42
SPEAKER_01: How can being a part of the Eagles community help someone who is a writer who wants to build their business?
37:47
SPEAKER_01: It is such a powerful medium, such a powerful community.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: But what would be some of the advantages of somebody joining the Eagles community and helping them to build their business?
37:56
SPEAKER_00: Well, the the connections there are pretty amazing.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: I mean, for one thing, you have just a brain trust of a lot of competent people who are there who so willingly share ideas and resources.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: When it comes to writing specifically, uh the connections there are pretty unmatched anywhere that I'm aware of.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: So we have books coming out.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: Like right now, uh there's a books, recent books, The Bezos Letters have come out.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh Karen Anderson, who whose husband wrote that book.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: Karen is an acquisitions editor and a ghostwriter.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: She's a member of the Eagles community.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh the book was worked on as in terms of ghostwriting by Nick Bivlitas, an attorney who's also in that community.
38:41
SPEAKER_00: It was published by Morgan James Publishing.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: David Hancock, the publisher, founder of Morgan James, is a member of the Eagles community.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: Jennifer Harshman worked on that book in terms of editing it.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: Jennifer is a very active member of 40 Days Eagles.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: That's just one example.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: There are books coming out every week, it seems.
39:03
SPEAKER_00: There's a um well, the Millennial Whisper is a very recent one.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: Already USA bestseller, uh, Chris Tuff has leveraged that into consulting contracts with companies.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: The last one he just signed, I was on a Zoom call with Chris just yesterday.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: The last contract he just signed for implementing the principles in his little book that he wrote.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: He signed a contract for$280,000.
39:27
SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: Help a company implement those principles there.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's a brand new book out called Legendary.
39:34
SPEAKER_00: I just talked to the author, Tommy Breedlub, yesterday.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: Again, the people I mentioned, most of the people I mentioned there, were had their hands on that project as well.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: And that's opening the door for Tommy for some very, very unusual, very, very profitable opportunities.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: So in the Eagles community, it's it's people who are not content with just mediocre, not content with things that just as they are.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, we're in this period right now of just massive change and a lot of unexpected and unwelcome change.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: But in times like that, people who really are thinking creatively, they don't feel vulnerable.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are a lot of us who aren't gonna show up anywhere and have somebody say, You lost your job, because we've taken ideas and put legs on those.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: So that's what the community is.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: It's people who have taken ideas and said, you know, I had this dream when I was 18 years old.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: I haven't really done anything with it.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm ready to do that.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: And so the resources there in terms of real connection, real materials that we have available and processes to walk through as well as the brain trust we have there, accelerates the speed at which people are bringing those ideas alive in a way that I've just never experienced.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: If people want to find out more about the Eagles community, which I imagine they will after that amazing description of it, what's the best way that they can do that?
40:49
SPEAKER_00: They can go directly to 48daiseEagles.com.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: That's the entry point, 48daiseEagles.com.
40:57
SPEAKER_00: They can see there the what we do in there, get all kinds of information, have questions answered, and make a decision about joining us.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: Well, it is such a powerful community.
41:08
SPEAKER_01: And Dan, I once again I just appreciate the impact you've had on my life as well as so many uh thousands and thousands, tens of thousands of other people through your podcasts and books and writing and events and just being such an encouragement to so many people.
41:21
SPEAKER_01: So I really do sincerely appreciate that.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: It's certainly an opportunity and a responsibility.
41:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, when we have a voice and people are listening, it's not just, oh, good me.
41:32
SPEAKER_00: No, it's okay.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: With that comes responsibility.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: And the Bible is clear about that.
41:37
SPEAKER_00: I take that very seriously, having a pastoral background, as you have described as well.
41:42
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so so it's not just uh ride the wave and uh buy a Ferrari.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: It's say, okay, what is my responsibility with now that people are listening?
41:54
SPEAKER_00: And I take that very seriously every day that I'm alive.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: And we can certainly take that responsibility and increase our impact through writing and all the other things that you mentioned as well.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: So thanks for encouraging the writers and the content creators in our listeners.
42:08
SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate that.
42:09
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
42:10
SPEAKER_01: My privilege.
42:12
SPEAKER_01: I hope you took some notes during that conversation.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: Dan, as always, was a fount of wisdom.
42:18
SPEAKER_01: It's almost like every sentence out of his mouth was just this tip or this inspiration or this encouragement or some specific piece of advice that you could use to improve your life or your writing or your business or some other aspect of your existence.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: He was just such a wise person.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to miss him like so many other many, many thousands of people who loved him and respected him so much over the years.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, I hope that you will go to the 48 Days website, which again is 48days.com.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: You can grab Dan's books and listen to his podcast, and they have a ton of other resources there to help you find or create work that you love.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: And again, even though Dan is no longer with us, he is going to impact people for decades and dare I say generations to come.
43:05
SPEAKER_01: As always, thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.