Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Young Sherlock Holmes (1985) - Barry Levinson | Houselights #268: Wing of Sherlock

Transcript

Young Sherlock Holmes (1985) - Barry Levinson | Houselights #268: Wing of Sherlock · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the ned Palty.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to house Lights.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: Specifically, this time, we are still in the wing of
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: Sherlock Holmes as we examine Sherlock Holmes, the character as
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: filmed as put on screen by various directors and played
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: by various people. I am one of your hosts, Inspector
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: John Mills, and I am joined by my esteemed colleagues,
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: possibly somebody in disguise hiding a childhood trauma, Professor Darren Moser,
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: and the Scotland yard detective who refuses to believe me
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: that there are poison thorns out there, Detective Tristan Riddell. Gentlemen,
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: I am pleased to have you join me in this
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: examination of a movie that is no own, primarily for
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: the fact that an effect in it is what everybody
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: hinges on about computer animation, Sherlock Holmes and the Polyhedron
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: of Danger, where oh wait, no, I'm sorry, it's just
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: called Young Sherlock Holmes. It's just some similarities to another
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: film that pop up later on, but directed by Barry
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: Levinson of all people, and lensed by Stephen Goldblatt and
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: portraying an alternate version of Sherlock and John Watson meeting
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: while they are young men at school in England, and so, gentlemen,
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: the inevitable question that we always have because I can
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: never recall. I know, this is my first time actually
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: watching this film. Did either one of you encounter this beforehand? Tristan,
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: did you see this before this moment in time?
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: When we sat down to watch it, I was thinking, Okay, yeah,
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: I've never seen this before. You know, this is the
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: first time. Let's get going. And then as I was watching,
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: I was like, wait, how did I know what was
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: going to happen?
• 2:02
  Speaker 5: Wait?
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: How did I know that was going to happen? And
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: it wasn't until the very very end when Sherlock blows
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: the dart in the person's mouth like beats her to
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: it when I realized I was like, wait, I have
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: seen this before, because I have a strong memory of
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: that situation happening, but I never knew what movie it
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: was from.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: I will also put out there that you see it
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: pop up in Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull or
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, you see a similar blow
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: dart gag happen.
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: I've blocked all of that movie. You know what, but
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: this was a memory for like Crystal Skull.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: Everybody can go pound sand anyway. All right, So Darren,
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: what about you? Is this your first time coming across
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: young Sherlock Holmes.
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: Yes, like many film viewers, nothing against the film, but
• 2:49
  Speaker 5: the only experience I have with Sherlock Holmes is repeatedly
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: seeing the one shot of the first CG full realize
• 2:57
  Speaker 5: character in history. When Chicksaw, which I had no context,
• 3:03
  Speaker 5: was a hallucination, which also kind of makes now because
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: I had no idea, I just like, oh, that's cool.
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: Is there why it happened.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: I thought it was like a cross.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: I thought it was gonna be like a ghost, like
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: a Scooby Doo sort of thing, and so like when
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: it was the hallucination, I was like, okay, all right,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: this kind of makes sense.
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: I don't know why. It literally never crossed my mind
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: why it popped out, And it makes total sense it's
• 3:28
  Speaker 5: hallucination because I'm like, oh yeah, like otherwise it's like
• 3:31
  Speaker 5: magic or something that is not real. That's weird.
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: So now, before we get too much into the weeds
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: or too far into the weeds, I do want to say,
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: for those of you who do not know Barry Levinson's work.
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: First of all, shame on.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: You, and I was going to get to and come
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: on now.
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: Before he uh did young Sherlock Holmes. He came off
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: the success of The Natural just a year prior, and
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: then when they went on to do Good Morning Vietnam, Rainman, Bugsy, Toys, Sleepers,
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: Wag the Dog's Fear, Da Bandits, which I freaking love.
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: Nobody else likes it. I like it, and then it
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: just kind of kind of goes off the rails a
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: little bit.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: Well, let's be honest that Levinson has always had a
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: lot of heat on him because he has had some
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: really stellar successes, like really artistic successes, regardless of box office.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: But it's always been a bit hit and miss. Because
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: you mentioned Good Morning Vietnam, but Ten Men came out
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: that same year and that one was not beloved, and
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: you have Rainman and Avalon. Avalon sort of overlooked. A
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: lot of people like it, some people don't care for
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: it too much. Toys was a complete dud. It was
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: dead on arrival. I was there for it. I remember,
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: and like I remember going to see it, and I
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: remember how much almost everybody in our group hated the
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: movie at the end of it, whereas I was like,
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: I don't know, all right, but like everybody else was
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: like vitriolic hatred.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: At the movie.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: And Wag the Dog is a real interesting one, Like
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: it's a super duper interesting one because it is a
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: really well constructed and interesting film. But all of these
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: films have one thing in common, and that is I
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: don't see Barry Levinson, the Barry Levinson who made those
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: movies reflected in Young Sherlock Holmes. Now, Darren, are you
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: very familiar with Barry Levinson films or is this something
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: where like, now that we're going through it, you're like, oh, yeah,
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: I've seen rain Man, I've seen Good Morning in Vietnam.
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: But yeah, a handful. I mean some jump out like spheres,
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: but not many. And like you said, the ones I
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: do recognize even if I haven't seen them. It seems
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: like he kind of found that lucky balance of having
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: a hit just often enough to keep his career going.
• 5:56
  Speaker 5: And it's intermixed with again nothing gets to over a
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: but like Hollywood will give you what it so decrees
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: based on how much money you make them, and if
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: you have enough non hits in a row, it's very
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: hard to recover from. But yeah, I don't know what
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: a Levinson movie should look like, even the ones I've seen.
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: There what I mean, we're crossing genres time, historical, science fiction.
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: So he is all over the place, not in a
• 6:26
  Speaker 5: bad way, but just hard to find a bead.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: But speaking of that bid Tristan, you mentioned that he
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: directed The Natural right before this. The Natural comes out
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty four. It is still a beloved film,
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: and with good reason. It's a great film. But I
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: do not see the director of the Natural in the
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: director of the Young Sherlock Holmes. And I would have
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: to say, and I want to bounce this off of you.
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: You can't see it because everything's up by candlelight.
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: Well no, I but like in all honesty, like when
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: I look at those two films, I see instead somebody
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: who is being forced to be a like more Spielberg
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: is an ambulin production, and there's very much a feeling
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: of listen, you made it to the big time, kid,
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: Now prove you can get this across.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: The line, and we'll let you keep playing.
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this felt much more like a Spielberg picture with Columbus,
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: like it feels a Columbus in Spielberg honestly, and I
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: think Levinson probably was a worker on this. It was
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: I don't, like you said a couple of times, I
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: don't see Levinson in this at all, And I think
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: it's a really weird statement because you know, granted this
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: was early on in his in his career, but Levinston
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: Levinson himself, you know, like his is a presence. He's
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: a well known producer and director. And I think you're
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: right on the money. I think this is a it
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: feels like a pale Spielberg imitation mm hm. And it's
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: you know, penn by Columbus, and so it has that
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: tonality to it, like it has that rhythm that you
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: see with Columbus, like when you look at Grimlins or
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: the Goonies or even the first Harry Potters, like you
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: see that moment of discovery of meeting like of the
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: it's very much that young person perspective and journey, and
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: it's hard to move away from that. Levinson very much
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: feels like the person who says yes no, yes no,
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: and make sure the trains are running on time.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: So, Darren, you know Levinson is putting this together. It's
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: penned by Columbus, as Tristan says, and it earns its
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: PG thirteen. My question for you is watching this, do
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: you feel that this is still a PG thirteen movie
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: or is this PG thirteen for the time.
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it's late, it's mid eighties, and granted
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: there's a lot of like scary looking stuff, especially with
• 8:59
  Speaker 5: the hallucinations, with things like coming alive and and it's
• 9:03
  Speaker 5: weird because it's still very Claymation esque, like the effects
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: are very obviously effects, but they're still disturbing, like I
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: would not want that to happen in my room or
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: place of whatever. But yeah, it I mean, remind me
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: it was eighty five, same year as a Temple of Doom, right.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: No, Temple of Doom was eighty four, Okay, so but
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: I think I think Doom was the one that sort
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: of like if my memory of PG thirteen always gets
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: mixed up, but I know that I think that like
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: Temple of Doom was sort of like the breaking point whereas.
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: The we should have we need a new rule because
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: it would have been PG thirteen.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: It would have it was Temple Doom something else I
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: can't remember.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it would it would have been r but
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: Spielberg had the weight to pull and get the NPAA
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: to leave them alone.
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: And they're like, we need something in the middle. So okay,
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: So this was PG thirteen. Yeah, I mean it tracks
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: especially for mid a eighties. It would have I mean,
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: we could have had history books differently. If this had
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: been before the creation of PG thirteen, I think it
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: would have been another contender for It's not PG, but
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: it's I can see why you didn't want it to
• 10:14
  Speaker 5: be our. But one other thing I wanted to say
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: is we were talking about the I don't remember what
• 10:21
  Speaker 5: word we used, but in the fact that it's kind
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: of I don't want to say copying, but I'm gonna
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: say copying with the Spielberg sense and stuff because I
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: don't know about you guys, but I felt like someone again.
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: I know, we sound very critical here on House Lights,
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: we're just dissecting things, but the music, it felt like
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: someone gave the composer twenty records of Williams and said,
• 10:50
  Speaker 5: make it sound like that. I so many times felt like,
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: is this John Williams. It was so close into my
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: homework and make it different close. And so it's interesting
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: hearing you guys talk about the visuals and the story
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: pacing being Spielberg ass. I mean, he's an executive producer.
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: You know, he's he's influencing. So it was, look, this
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: weird movie of not the people you thought were the
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: ones directing and doing the music and doing this, but
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: heavily influenced.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: I'll tear the band aid off and say, on top
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: of the music, on top of the visual sensibility Columbus basically,
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: like I made the joke when we opened up, it's
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: Sherlock Holmes and the polyhedron of peril like it. At
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: one point, I'm like, is this the Temple at Doom set?
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: Did they just hold on to it or something like that?
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: Like it's very obviously heavily influenced, and it wouldn't And
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: I know that, I know that.
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: A discount on like all of the the fake blood
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: or whatever they bought for Temple and they just said, hey,
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: let's just take it over a sound stage five they're
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: shooting young Sherlock Holmes. I mean I know that.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: But ILM actually is credited as a producer on this film,
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: like the entity ILM. And it's like it wouldn't be
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: surprising to me where they were like oh, we're going
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: to produce because you know, we need something, but we
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: need it we need it faster than like, you know,
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: coming from the ground up, because this is it's disorienting
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: because here we are in the age of AI where
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: everybody's like, oh, everything's being copied from you know itself
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: and stuff like that. I'm like, I everything we're talking
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: about here, whether it's the way it gets lensed, the
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: way it's scored, the way it's structured, the like, down
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: to the set level. It's like it's as if somebody
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: just looked and copied and said, you know what, make
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: me a movie that is just like Temple of Doom
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: but with a young Sherlock Holmes. But with all of
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: those negatives, there are still some positives. So Tristan, like
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: what I wanted to throw to you was on the positives.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think the cast is pretty solid in this,
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: and I think that you know, they bring in the
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: right amount of uh sort of like charm to everything.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Do you agree with that or not?
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: I think I'm always a big fan of Anthony Higgins,
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: who played a professor Raith. I always I really do
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: believe that he kind of elevates everything that he's in,
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: and I thought Sophie Ward, who played Elizabeth, did a
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: very fine job. I feel like that could have been
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: a throwaway role. I feel like that that could have
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: been a role that anybody could have played and just
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: kind of in the background. But I honestly believe that
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: she was her own character, had her own ideas of things.
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: I'm a little mixed on Nicholas Rowe with Sherlock and
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: Allen Cox's Watson. I'm not quite sure why. I don't
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: know if I can articulate it as to why I'm
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: a little mixed. I don't think they did a bad
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: job by any means. In fact, I'm leaning more towards good,
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: but they're just I didn't feel the chemistry between them,
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: And I think if you don't have good chemistry between
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: the two leads, even if they're good on their own, comply,
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: it doesn't really matter. What did you guys think about
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: the chemistry between the two?
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: Now? Are you meaning chemistry or are you meaning homes
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: evolving into the homes? We know because I've read that,
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: you know, Spielberg and Columbus really wanted this to be
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: you know, he's he's more led by the heart he's less,
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: you know, cold and all that, Like he's young and
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: he's vibrant, and he's not the main characteristics we know
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: of as Holmes. So do you mean it was that
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: kind of part of the off putting or are you
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: specifically just talking about you have a home in Watson,
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: that duo needs to strike a chord or it's not succeeding.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: It's all about the duo. Like I completely get that,
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: like a young Sherlock isn't the real Sherlock that we
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: know and love it because I feel like Roe did
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: a good job of like weaving in those aspects of
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: Sherlock where there were times when he was short with Watson.
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: There was times when he was just like come on, man,
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: you know like it's elementary, you know, like it's you
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: can tell that he definitely has that superiority complex, but
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: it's nowhere near as concrete as it would be later
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: in life. But no, it's very much that second part
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: of what you talked about, how the dude, like the
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: back and forth, the duality of it. I just didn't
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: feel like it was there, And I think that's it's hard,
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: especially when you're when you're a young actor.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: I agree but I think they're not helped at all
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: by the structure of it. And I don't think they're
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: helped at all by the fact that, Yeah, Levinson is
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: you know, to the point you made earlier, this is
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: a director who's you know, he's following the rules, he's
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: doing what he's supposed to do, he's showing up, he's
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: he's the producer said I want this, so I'm going
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: to deliver this. And I can't disappoint mister Spielberg because
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: he'll end my career right here now. So I'm going
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: to deliver what he asks me to do. And I
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: think that that's that's really I think one sense of it.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: But I think a larger sense is the structure of
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: the story itself is it does not the script itself
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: does not successfully balance the need of Sherlock and Watson
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: and Sherlock and Elizabeth can't. It doesn't commit to either
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: one enough. So basically everybody loses in that circumstance. So
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: that's where I would leave that.
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: That's really spot on. I would wholeheartedly agree with that,
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: absolutely cool.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: I do want to ask, though, in terms of the effects,
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: because everybody talks about the effects, Darren, you know, you're
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: a builder, you know, you have a certain eye for
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: these sorts of things. There are some more practical effects
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: that happen in here. Do you think that the film
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: is a success in terms of what it builds out,
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: in terms of the sets, and in terms of the
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: practical effects that they have. Do you think that those
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: are successful or do you think that it's it's something
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: where they put so much effort into trying to get
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: certain effects across the line that the others suffer.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: No.
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: I think the effects worked pretty well. Like I never
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: felt personally drawn out of the movie because of them.
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: There's a little bit of that eighties smudge to them
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: where they're you know, it's it's not quite photo reel
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: or you can kind of tell that it was done
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: in a technique, but because of the era. I I
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: just let that slide, because it's literally the cutting edge
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: of what they can do. They're they're using the tools
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: they have. They're they're obviously using you know, stop animation
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: and and CG and like every trick they can, and
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: they're pulling off hallucinations, which is a really interesting thing
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: to do because it's meant to be surreal. It's not
• 17:39
  Speaker 5: meant to one hundred percent. Look real where they kind
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: of lost me and this is maybe more of a
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: story point. I I did not care for the flying Machine.
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: It felt a little bridge too far. I'm like, so
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: we're also inventing flying machine.
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: It's like, so we beat we beat the Right Brothers essentially,
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: is what?
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: Like?
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: I know, it's it's a movie, but at the same time.
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: Look, Jane Waite can do it in her hologram program.
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: I'm okay with that, but this was, yeah, it just
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: it took me. That took me out of it more
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: than anything else. I was like, why why is this
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: a thing?
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: I wholeheartedly with you on that because I think that
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: right there, that's something that was an unnecessary reach, was
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: very unnecessary cutting. It would have provided more time in
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: the script for the Watson and Elizabeth relationships with homes
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: to develop, and I think that's.
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: Really I was already sold on his relationship with his
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: mentor the professor, who tinkered like, I got it. I
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: got it within five minutes, and then they kept teaching
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: us that relationship for quite a while because there's this
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: payoff in the third act with the flying machine, and
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: that was fifteen minutes of total screen time. I would
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: rather been reinvested in some of the other characters, like
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: you're saying.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: Especially since getting there could have been solved through so
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: many other means that they need have invented.
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: And also at the beginning, like when the first guy
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: did it, and then like he's treating it like, oh man,
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: I failed, but it's okay, I'll have to rebuild it
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: and I'll try again. I'm like, what do you mean
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: you failed? You literally invented flight? You just hit a tree, right, Yes,
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: I you know. It's it's a.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: It's a It's a movie that I think is so
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: it's so caught up with what it's trying to achieve
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: that it never stops to consider what it's doing. And
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: I think that the one of the one of the
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: unfortunate victims is I do think that the that uh
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: Stephen Goldblatt, I think he frames it well, like I
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: that the shots look good, and I think that the
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: the practical effects look convincing, and so I'm I'm along
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: for the ride in those terms. I watched this with
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: my youngest, which is always dicey because the scary bird
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: coming to life and attacking the guy I like had
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: to look a couple of times. That's why I was
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: asking the PG thirteen things. I'm watching it with a
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: ten year old, and I'm like, is this too scary?
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: We can turn this off. I can watch this by myself.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: Is this too scary?
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: No?
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: And then and then basically the way we started diffusing it.
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: Like this, no, Dad, As I looked through my fingers,
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: now you know I'm.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: Going she was doing all right because well because her
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: whole thing was like she was like, that's just that's
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: just a puppet. I was like, exactly exactly, You're fine.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: But there was you know, there's also diffusing. It was
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: a matter of when we would go in and the
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: person was setting up the hallucination was saying what do
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: you think is going to happen now? And so it
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: was fun to watch it with a kid and say like, oh,
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: what do you think their hallucination is going to be?
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: And then like the bedding and then like one of
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: us would be right and it's like oh yeah. But
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: then you know, she got mad because I blurted out
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: like the solution, like who was really behind everything? And
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: she was like, Dad, she hates it when I do that.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: But all that to say Viewing it with a kid
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: was really interesting because it really does sort of temper
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: the reaction to some of the negative stuff that we're highlighting,
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: because I can tell you there are plenty of eighties
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: movies where I show it to my kid now and
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: it's boring because it's just the sensibilities are different now,
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: the storytelling pace is different. But Tristan, is this a
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: movie where you could This is a movie that made
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: I think it was like three and a half times
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: its budget, so it's a success. But there are no
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: sequels to it, and people don't really talk about it
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: too much. Given that I've watched it with a kid
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: who dug it, and we see this measure of financial success.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: Why do you think that Young Sherlock is only remembered
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: for the Stained Glass.
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: I think it was one of those movies that was
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: the right story for the right time. I think if
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: you look at the eighties and the middle of the
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: Road childhood movie, like, this is not a movie for
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: young children. This is not a movie for you know, typically,
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: this is not a movie that's geared towards adults. It's
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: geared towards adults who want to take their eleven twelve
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: thirteen year old kids plus to the movies. And if
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: you look at things like Krimlins and Goonies like in
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: other Columbus movies, and you look at the success of
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: Indiana Jones, It's the eighties was built for that time
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: and that specific demo, and this is one of those movies.
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: But I just don't think it has lasting power because
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: of the reasons that you talked about, where I think
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: the structure is odd, it doesn't know what to focus on.
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: And the most remarkable thing is from a technical standpoint,
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: where I think it's one of those things where if
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: you actually had Spielberg direct it, and you actually had
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: John Williams score it, and maybe you had who was
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: the who the eighties writer for Spielberg, I can't I'm
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: blinking right now.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: But basically, like I see, I'm just thinking if editor
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: would have been like Michael Kahan would go.
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: To as edited by Kahn, you know, like everything like that.
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: So basically, if you had the eighties a game, the
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: Spielberg's crew essentially doing this film, I think it would
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: be talked about. But you're getting imitation. It's it's imitated imitation.
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: Crab meat is what it is. And Okay, yeah, I
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: think that's probably the reason. It's like, yeah, like people
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: went to go see it because they were the right
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: demo and oh it's ambulan entertainment. I know that logo
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: and then that was it. But the thing is is
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: that it wasn't like, oh my god, you have to
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: go see this again, or it's repeated viewings like Star
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: Wars or something like that. It's yeah, I think that's
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: what it is. It's it's an imitation and it came
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: out at the right time to make its money back
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: and then some. But it doesn't have staying power.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: So Darren, I I rolled the dice on showing this
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: to my kid. Would you show this to your kids?
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: No, but not for the reason of like I'd be
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: worried about them being scared. I was probably not, just
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: just because I would rather show them something better or
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: something that has a more sentimental connection to me, Like
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: I just wouldn't. I don't feel like I need to
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: waste the night on watching this. It's not enough to
• 24:27
  Speaker 5: be I'll show them a clip of the stained glass
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: window on YouTube like that's enough to cover it. Well,
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: we just don't waste this, Yeah, I don't waste that.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: Wow, that's a pretty wow. You've really lowered the boom there.
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: I really agreed though, with what Tristan was saying about.
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: I mean, this was December fourth, eighty five. It is
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: a Christmas movie. You're a parent with a tween, which
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: isn't even a word yet, and you know here like
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: looking at the movie and you're like, oh yeah, young
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: Charlotte Holmes. I didn't even think about it until you
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: guys were mentioning it. But of course this is named
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: as kids. Of course this is not like, oh yeah,
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: mom and dad are gonna go to on a date
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: night to see this movie. No, you're really not gonna
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: see this movie unless you're bringing your kids, unless you
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: are a die hard Sherlock Holmes buff and you're gonna
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: see anything with the word Sherlock on it.
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: Speaking of which, oh my gosh. Okay, so this movie
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: not once but twice gave qualifiers that this was an
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: original story and not based on anything by Sir Arthur
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: Conan Doyle. Like, okay, even when you when you tell
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: a biblical story, you'll only get one qualifier at the beginning.
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: This movie felt the need to give it to you twice.
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: How fanatic are Holmesians fans. Does anybody know any Holmes fans?
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, not a single one.
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: No.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: I know of Nicholas Meyer being a big Sherlock Holmes fan.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: But that's about it. That's the extent of it.
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: For me.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: I have yet in my life to run across somebody
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: who's actually read a Sherlock Holmes story. And that is
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: not a condemnation of Sherlock Holmes. That is, Sherlock Holmes
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: is basically like a filmed entertainment thing. There's even a
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: new series out with him, and like it's like.
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: Now as well, we have Young Sherlock, a TV show
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: that's going on right now.
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: Did they have to say the TV shows so people
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: didn't confuse it with the mil that we're right now Slock.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, like Young Sheldon.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: But I do want to point out that the movie
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: doing as well as it did though, while it's you know,
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: not as memorable, maybe as as we'd say December nineteen
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: eighty five, Okay, the top grossing films in December nineteen
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: eighty five were Back to the Future, Rocky four, Spies
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: Like Us, and Jewel of the Nile. So those are
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: now Spies like Us. Is not a good movie. It
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: does not hold up. And Jewel of the Nile was
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: a relatively disappointing sequel to Romancing the Stone, but rocky
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: forourn Back to the Future in theaters at the same
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: time as this movie, and this movie still rakes in
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: three and a half times its budget.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: That's pretty impressive.
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: It's impressive. But now that you mentioned it, I mean,
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: Back to the Future ate this movie's lunch, Like, hands down, it.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Ate everybody's lunch.
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: Everybody's lunch. But like that just sucked all the air
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: out of the room. Like well, and like you said,
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: it made, it made a decent chunk of money for
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: its budget. But if you saw this and Back to
• 27:37
  Speaker 5: the Future on a weekend, you're going to go back
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: to watch Back to the Future again. You're not going back.
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Like, if if I had the choice between Young
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: sherlocker Back to the Future and my kid came to
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: me and said which one should I watch, I'm like, what,
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: that's a no brainer, Like do you want incest or
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: do you want cgi characters back?
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: You know which, I'm going.
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: To watch Back to the Future with my kids again,
• 28:00
  Speaker 5: just despite Young Sherlock Holmes.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: And meanwhile, I know it, but and meanwhile, I'm taking
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: my kids to go see Rocky four Fathom re releases
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: in the movie theater. So there you go, there you go,
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: Rocky floor. Oh I already did. I already went, one
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: of my kids. Yeah, back, because Rocky four was always
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: like a holiday movie. I mean not just Rocky four,
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: but like the Rocky movies always came out around Thanksgiving, so,
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: you know, fine tradition. But actually other notable nineteen eighty
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: five December releases, The Color Purple came out on December twentieth,
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: and Disney reissued one hundred and one Dalmatians. So I mean,
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: this is a really big, you know, competitive field. I
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: don't think it's any surprise why young Sherlock Holmes would
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: be lost in the shuffle of time. But it's also
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: what a statement in the embarrassment of riches that you know,
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: nineteen eighties box office hits could be back then. I mean,
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: good gravy. That's that's some heavy hitters there.
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know, I'd go as far as
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: to say, I don't think anyone would talk about this
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: movie if it wasn't for the special effects, and that
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: probably like today, Yeah, the fact that that is kept.
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: I mean, I mean, we're all the outliers in our
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: love of films, for sure, but the fact that that's
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: really the only reason any of us even know of
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: this movie, you know, I think it's Oh, I.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: Completely agree with you. I completely agree with you. Now
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: we we sort of dragged Bruce Broughton's score with being
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: pale imitation of John Williams. But you know, I mean,
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: and this will sound like such a snarky way to
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: put it, but honestly, you know, Darren, is it at
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: least a good imitation of John Williams? Or is it
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: just an annoying adapt you know, imitation?
• 29:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like, what is your definition of good imitation?
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: Like it was close enough where it made me be like,
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: why didn't you just get Williams? Like I always want
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: to look up like what was he doing? Right?
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah he was.
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: He was too busy at the time. I can't remember
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: what he was doing. But they Spielberg went to him first,
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: obviously obviously, Yeah.
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: It was It's a rare thing where Spielberg, now he
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: didn't direct this, but he produced it and it's not
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: a collaboration. And you're like, okay, obviously it wasn't enough
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: to pull him off whatever he was on and doing
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: at the time. Yeah, it it's hard because I love
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: William's style. It's what I really grew up on. I
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: really enjoy music that has themes, you know, for the
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: characters and locations and things like that, which this does have.
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: But this is the kind of If I were to
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: use this score again, I would use it in a
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: guess that composer game to mess with.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: People where it's fair.
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: They'd have, like, you know, some Horner score and some
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: william scores and then I'd throw in young Sherlock Holmes
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: and they are dead sure it's Williams. And I'm like, ha,
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: I got you. It's not him, but you know that
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: would be me. But I would do it.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: So the inevitable thing that I always love to throw
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: at Tristan, and I won't even pull up any of
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: my favorite jokes. But this is directed, not directed.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: This is edited by Stu Linder, who had worked with
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: Levinson on Diner and the Natural and it basically went
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: on and his career has been basically working with Barry Levinson.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: And in terms of the editing, Tristan, do you see
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: anything that stands out here or does this look again
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: like somebody who's just a worker who showed up and said, Okay,
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: I just know the beats and I know how to
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: assemble this because everything storyboarded and I don't have to
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: think too much.
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: No, this was this was fine editing like this, and
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: I say that as a compliment. This was good editing.
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: This was this was editing that did not draw attention
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: to itself. This was this was not flashy, This was
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: not in your face. This was this got the job done.
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: And there are movies where the editing is where you
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: look at it and you're just like, man, the editing
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: was phenomenal because of what it was able to accomplish.
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: And then there's other times when the editing is just
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: terrible and you can absolutely notice it. And then there's
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: editing that you don't notice. And honestly, you're looking at
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: like ten percent of the time on one spectrum it's
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: editing you notice and it's good. And then you have
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: ten percent on the other side of the spectrum where
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: it's editing you notice because it's bad. And then you
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: have about eighty percent in the middle where it does
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: its job. And that's where this movie is, and that
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: is a huge compliment because that's where you should be
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: most of the time. And there were actually times during
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: the hallucination scenes where I think towards the beginning, I
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: think when the guy was at the diner, and also
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: poor man at the diner, I mean at the at
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: the restaurant, like no one, no one is getting up
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: to help this man. No one's saying like, hey, what's wrong.
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: Why you're freaking out? They're all just sitting there, freaking
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: British you know, they're all just sitting there, and this, you.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: Know, I think very well documented, so I'm willing to
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: buy it.
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: I mean, the guy in the back, I saw him
• 33:26
  Speaker 5: looking down going keep calm, carry on, keep calm, carrying on, keep.
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: Carry and also British people, I love you. I'm just joking.
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: But Tristan Riddell at Chicago, Illinois six soh six five.
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: Two, when when he's looking at his hands and those
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: creatures all around and everything like that, and then all
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: of a sudden it wears off and he's looking again
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: at his hands. It was a perfect at it. It
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: was beautiful. I mean it was it was it was
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: There wasn't even a fade, it didn't even look like
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: a jump cut. It just was gone and for the
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: time being that that had to have been hard to achieve.
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: And that's just one example of it all throughout. So
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: this was this was stellar. No at a macro level,
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: as you hear me talk about, this structure could have
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: been redefined. But if you look at Columbus's script, it
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: very much has that hero's journey of meeting the characters,
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: the investigation climax. It's just boom boom boom, like it's
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: that basic three X structure. And so I don't know
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: how much you'd be able to kind of flip around
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: and shuffle and everything like that, but I don't lay that.
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: I usually don't lay macro at the editor's feet. I
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: lay micro at the editor's feet. I lay macro at
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: producer and director.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: Fair enough, I do want to throw out there as
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: well that Stu Linder also was an assistant editor on
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: the man who shot Liberty Valance, so he had been
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: working for some time because that came out in nineteen
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: sixty two, and that is I'm just going to sidestep
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: here real quick, and I'm gonna say that is one
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: of the greatest films that's ever been made. In the
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: history of film, and if anybody hasn't seen it, this
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: was my excuse to say, go and see it because
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: it ties in to mister Stulnder, who was an assistant
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: editor on that film, so though he was uncredited. So
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: there you go. Now, you know we've covered the editing,
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: the music, cinematography, and you know some of the structural
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: challenges that are there. But Darren, what in one thing
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: about young Sherlock Holmes that you think is a standout?
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: That's great?
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: Where you looked at it, where you go regardless of
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: everything else, I loved this.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: What was it that you loved?
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: Well, there's a scene with a stained glass window and it.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Oh I missed that. No, no, no, when did that happen?
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: I don't know. I will say I really like the
• 35:51
  Speaker 5: structure of the inciting incident of this story. I love
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: how it picks up with Watson coming to a new
• 35:57
  Speaker 5: school and Holmes is already there, and just the fact
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: that I know it's young Sherlock Holms and it's meant
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: to be different, but I like how they slide right
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: into Oh that's right. He has no authority, he doesn't
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: have the clout to have the inspector listen to him
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: and take it seriously, and so he has to solve
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: it on his own. Now, Holmes has always kind of
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: solved things on his own, but he's also really had
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: his hand in the police to back him up. And
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: so I guess overall, the simple response of what I'm
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: getting at is I liked how they approach the young
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: Sherlock Holmes of being, you know, a schoolboy who's going
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: to become the man that we see and know in literature.
• 36:50
  Speaker 5: But yeah, it just felt very well, like, well constructed
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: in that regard. And again the very beginning. I like
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: the beginning, how oh Watson came over. Now now, I
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: mean you have to kind of hold your breath for
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: a second and be like, but now these characters are
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: meeting earlier than I think they met in every other
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: story of But I looked past.
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: Did you did you not see the two qualifications that
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: they had at the beginning and at the end?
• 37:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: No, who have you stayed for the end credit scenes?
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: Like it was course the events it.
• 37:25
  Speaker 5: I missed it. No.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: I thought it was terrific because everything kept going while
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: the credits were going, and I was like, and my
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: kid and I were sitting there and it was like, yeah,
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: we were like, okay, well they got to be showing
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: this for some reason.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Now. I enjoyed that.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: But probably my favorite thing, uh from this was in
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: all honesty, I got a kick out of how Elizabeth
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: and you know, again to the script's credit and the way,
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: you know, the way that Sophie Ward plays it, Elizabeth
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: is the one that figures out how to get Sherlock
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: out of peril by tying it to the carriage's axle
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: and everything. Like, they actually made her smart and capable,
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: and that was a lot of fun, you know, for
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: a movie to do, especially at that time, and because
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: you know, the easy thing is that Sherlock do everything
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: and figure it all out and then Watson does one thing,
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: and instead they gave her something to do.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: So bravo.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: Now with that end credits thing, I got kind of
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: a kick out of it, was like, oh, yeah, I
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: knew it.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: I knew it.
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: He's Moriarty for real. But Tristan, my kid, didn't know
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: what the hell that meant. Do you think that was
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: a wasted stinger?
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: No, I don't think that was a wasted stinger at all.
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: I think really it was cute. I think it was fun.
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: If you missed it, nothing was missed, But if you
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: did see it and knew what was going on, it
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: meant a lot. Like if you're a Holmes fan, you're like, oh, cool, okay,
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: this is what they're doing. You know, like they're going
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: to make another one. Just like when you saw Lost
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: in Space, You're like, they're totally setting it up for
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: a sequal. We're totally gonna see that.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Didn't do it, Thank goodness, they didn't do that. Hey
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: whoa no, no.
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, I sit here, I take your bar. No,
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: you know what, big man, you think you come on?
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: You can take a swing anytime you want to.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Come on.
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: The pleasure is Lost in Space.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: Okay, you cannot. You cannot sit there and defend Crystal
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: Skull while simultaneously.
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: And yet buys the beer. You know, it's okay, no.
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: But it's it's funny that, Like, it's funny that you
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: bring that up, because every single movie we watch, my
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: nine year old says, what's at the end, Like, what
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: do you mean, what's at the end of the credits?
• 39:33
  Speaker 5: Nothing?
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: Marvel can go.
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: Break it to you. Nine point nine percent of all
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: films and history have nothing at the end of.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Marvel, there's one. But but Tristan, what
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: is one thing that that you thought was great that,
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: regardless of fending other flaws, what's one thing in this
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: movie you're like that was really cool.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: I really enjoyed that. Oh there's his rating, Darren.
• 39:59
  Speaker 5: There you have whole speech to come up with an idea,
• 40:02
  Speaker 5: trist I know, I did.
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: I want to say, like the CDNI character, that was awesome,
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: that holds up man like I was looking and like,
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: like the only thing that was a little weird was
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: just when they cut out the candlesticks when it went,
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: when the candlesticks were in front of it, that was
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: the only thing that got a little weird. And you
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: got to give it. You got to give them some slack.
• 40:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like traveling that one that's still tricky.
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, hell yeah. And like other than that, it was
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: it was phenomenal. I mean seriously, like you could you
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: could put that in a movie today and people wouldn't
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: bat an eye. Honestly, I'm not I'm not being hyperbolic.
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: In all honesty, it's kind of crazy to think that
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: eight years later was dinosaurs. Like the the accelerated rate
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: at which the technology matured, but that still doesn't tell
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: me what you thought was great in this movie.
• 40:50
  Speaker 5: Sorry. I had to think Durassea Park for a second
• 40:53
  Speaker 5: and totally just thought the Carl Sinclair Jim Henson's Dinosaurs
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: TV show, and I'm like, oh, no.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: That can't be what he means, Deren Darren, No, I
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: got my math wrong.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: I was talking about the Stellar CG effects and Lost
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: in Space. That was my mistake, especially with the little
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: monkey they found.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: But trust what did you.
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: Face monkey.
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: Sans monkey?
• 41:20
  Speaker 5: It was awesome?
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: Honestly, man, this this movie is so mid as the
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: kids say, it's I think there is nothing great about
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: this movie. But there's nothing garbage either fair. And I
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: think that's the thing, is that like, is this a
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: terrible movie? No, it's not at all. Is it a
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: Is it a good movie?
• 41:39
  Speaker 5: No it's not.
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: It's just a movie. And it's it's neither here nor there. Now,
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: there's certain there's several times that you know, people will
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: complain about a movie or something and then like, you know,
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: like what what do they say? Like between garbage and masterpiece,
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: there's this there's this wonderful valley of Okay and uh,
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: this is one of those movies where it's just okay,
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: it's just okay. Not every movie has to change your life.
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: Was I hoping for more? Yes, it's not good, it's
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: not great, but it's also not terrible. It's just okay,
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: And so I can't really say anything is great.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean I think that brings us to the
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: point where we should give our final thoughts and ratings.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: And I think it's okay.
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: Apparently we there's ratings mean nothing, Tristan, there's no point
• 42:26
  Speaker 5: in rating anything, all.
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: Right, when they don't waste your night? You know, we
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: know it's.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: Gonna go well.
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: You know, I think I think the audience is waiting
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: with baited breath for everything. But Tristan, you you just
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: wound up. So I'll let you take a swing here.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: What are what are any other final thoughts you have?
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: And you're rating.
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: Well because I say that this is a mid film.
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: This is straight down the middle. You know, you got
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: five stars, you've got zero stars. You just slash in half.
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: It's two and a half, just like seven percent solution.
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: I give it two and a half.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: I will go next actually, and I will say that, yeah,
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: this movie is very obviously in search of a final
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: identity that it is. It is a movie where, honestly,
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: one of the things that I admire about it is
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: I can see the impulse to do young Indiana Jones
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: here up to an including using it as a test
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: bed for new effects, and it's like, it's like a
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: concept that should have been developed for television before television
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: was capable of showing this like it's it really is
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: a movie serial mentality, and I think it's kind of
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: a shame that it just found the wrong time for expression.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: I see what you're saying, Tristan. I give it a
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: little bit better than Dead Middle of the Road. I
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: give it three stars because I did enjoy it, my
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: kid enjoyed it. We had a good time watching it,
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: And yeah, I'm grading it generously, but I'm I'm going
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: to stick by that. And I think that you know, Darren,
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: while you said he's like, oh, I don't want to
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: spend a whole evening watching this, I think he could
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: do a lot worse too, especially with eighties movies, because
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: this is one thing, Yeah, I can come at right
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: now and give it three stars, and I don't there
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: are other eighties movies where I talk about showing him
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: to my kids, and I live in terror of doing
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: it because I'm like, oh, please, don't let them hate it,
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: because I know this doesn't hold up as well as
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: my memory tells me it does.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: Sort of thing.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: So I have proof that this is a three star
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: movie because this is the first time I encountered it.
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: So there, you look at an eighties film and you're
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: just like, oh, God, like, how sexist is this going
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: to be? How homophobic is this going to be? We
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: just don't know.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: We just don't know, you know, I mean, there are
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: there are definitely questions about some of the films that
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: I watched in the eighties. It's like, huh, I don't
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: want to revisit this really, But Darren, that brings us
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: to you. What are your final thoughts in rating?
• 44:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, like I said, I really like to the lack
• 45:01
  Speaker 5: of agency Homes had over the adults, like he got
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: told what to do, he got got expelled, got put
• 45:09
  Speaker 5: in attention. You know, all had classmate rivalries. And also
• 45:14
  Speaker 5: say so all that worked. It was you know, as
• 45:17
  Speaker 5: a young Sherlock Holmes story. It worked, and then it
• 45:21
  Speaker 5: became like a temple of doom and like so much
• 45:25
  Speaker 5: so that I was like, did you where you got
• 45:29
  Speaker 5: like sitting next to the other screenwriter when and like
• 45:32
  Speaker 5: you kind of glanced at his notes like once in
• 45:34
  Speaker 5: a while, cover your heart. That's your lack cover your heart. Uh.
• 45:42
  Speaker 5: But all that's say, I'm going to give it a two.
• 45:45
  Speaker 5: It is a piece of cinema history. But I think, like, yeah,
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: like all the things we've stated, we can see why
• 45:53
  Speaker 5: it has not risen as a classic, risen as something
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: you know that is worth revisiting, except for in an
• 46:01
  Speaker 5: analytical eye like a podcast or if you're enjoying looking
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: over the list of ILM best hits you know for
• 46:10
  Speaker 5: the decade. So two stars for me.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: Wow, brutal.
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: So Darren is the heartless one this time, Tristan refuses
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: to pick a lane, and I'm the kind one. So
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: this all works out. It's sort of our personalities, I guess.
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: But Darren, you know we're not done with Sherlock yet.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: Oh no, Sherlock won't let us go yet. Well what
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: are we talking about?
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: Next week?
• 46:33
  Speaker 5: Next week we come to the only Sherlock movie all
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: three of us had actually seen before starting this wing.
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: We go to two thousand and nine's Sherlock Holmes starring
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: Robert Downey Junior. Next on House Lights
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: Join the Revolution, Join the net Party.