Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Murder mastermind or misunderstood best friend? Real estate mogul Robert Durst on trial for the murder of Susan Berman.

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Murder mastermind or misunderstood best friend? Real estate mogul Robert Durst on trial for the murder of Susan Berman. · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: What really happened to Susan Burman was she murdered execution
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: style because she knew the truth of Robert Durst's wife
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: her disappearance. And I have gone to her home, her neighborhood,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: and let me tell you people they are have no
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: doubt what happened to her crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: They found their face down in her bedroom and there
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: was a single bullets shot to the back of the head.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: There is no way on earth that Susan Burman led
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: a stranger into her house that night. She was shot
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: from behind while walking into a back room of the house.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: She had to rust that person when I first heard
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: about what had happened that, yes, it had to be
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: somebody that we knew that she knew at least Bob
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Durst tying up some loose ends, killing his best friend
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: to save himself. That's called That's called wow. That is
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: from True TV, Power, Privilege and Justice with Me an
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: All Star panel. Windy Patrick, California prosecutor, author Red Flags
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: at Wendy Patrick, PhD dot com. Cloyd Steiger thirty six
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: years Seattle PD including homicide author Seattle's Forgotten serial killer,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Gary Jane grant at Cloyd Steiger dot com, renowned forensics expert,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan, psychoanalyst, joining us out
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: of Beverly Hills. They got a lot of problems. No
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: offense at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: with us, but right now to Crime online dot com
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter Crime Online, where you can find this in
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: all other breaking justice and crime news as it happens.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Leave I page. Let's just start, you know what. I
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: don't want to start at the beginning with Kathy Kathy Durst, Dad,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I think rolled up in a rug, her body likely
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: dumped into the waters. Let's start with Susan Burman. There's
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: just so many places to start. Or wait a minute, wait, wait,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: wait wait? Or should I start with mister Black? Do
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: you remember him? That's another of Robert Durst's victims. Remember
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: when Robert Durst was caught dressed as a woman. Um
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: not judging, not judging at all. Don't care what he
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: had on, couldn't care less as long as he didn't
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: read my closet in like a convenience store shopping something
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: like it's not this, but something like a roast beef sandwich. Okay,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I try not to eat the food at the gas station.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: There's just something wrong. I guess some people don't mind
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: eating their food sitting outside inhaling the guysoline fumes and diesel.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: But he got caught shoplifting, and then it all unfolded,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: as I recall, and then the poor old seventy six
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: year old neighbor's head was found by a little boy
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: fishing out Galveston Bay. That's how I remember. I think
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: his name was Maxwell Black. Sorry, no disrespect to the dead,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Maurice Black, Levi page. Let's just forget about the head
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: in Galveston because Robert Durst got let off by jury
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: on that they believed he dismembered the old man in
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: self defense. Okay, let that sink in. Let's start with
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Susan Burman. Tee it up, LEVI. Nancy Susan Burman, just
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: so everybody knows who as she met Robert Durst in college.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: They both attended University of California at Berkeley, and Durst
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: dropped out, but Burman got her master's degree in journalism.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: They were best friends in college. Wait you just told
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: me something I didn't know. Okay, in wait a minute,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: where did they go to college? You see Berkeley. You
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: know that's not as easy to get in as you
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: may think it is. That's kind of hard, all the
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: California colleges. I mean, look what Laurie Laughlin is accused
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: of doing to get her kids into USC. So they're
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: at Berkeley and he drops out. I'd like to know
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: what he was studying. But he drops out. She goes
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: on to get her master's. Interesting. Interesting that a brainiac
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: like her hung out with a dropout, not judging. Go ahead,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: and she got her masters in journalism, and she tried
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: to become a journalist. She wrote a book about her
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: father who was in the mob. His name was Davey,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: the Jew burman from Vegas. She wrote a book, and
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: she had planned to turn this book into a movie,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: but Nancy, that never came to fruition. She moved to
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Los Angeles. She tried and tried to get this book
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: made into a movie. It never happened. She was broke.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: She had a trust fund, but she blew through the
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: trust fund, blew through the money from the book, and
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Robert Durst, had you been giving her money? He was
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: connected to a real estate empire from New York and
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: he was giving her money. Nancy. Okay, wait, wait wait
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: wait wait, Levi, Levi, Levi, you got me drinking from
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: a high fire. Eygent again, Let's just pause, Let's just pause.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Say everything you're telling me is valuable to me, every sentence.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: I want to stop you because so much of what
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: you're saying is significant to doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: My kid are by saying to the stars. But doctor
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, let me be serious for a moment. Did
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: you hear what Levi I just said? Robert and real
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: estate magnate, a mogul, He and his family had everything
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: handed to them on a silver platter. I'm not jealous, true,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: I grew up on a red dirt road with a
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: well dug in the backyard by my grandfather. But I'm
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: so happy, and frankly still am knock on wood, So
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: I don't begrudge them that. But what I'm saying is
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: it gives you a different mindset in view of the world.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Everything is attainable, everything, and you think in a different way.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: I think your values are different and not judging, not
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: saying there any better or worse than anybody else's. It's
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: just a different mindset, doctor Bethany. He and Nancy absolutely
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: not only is it a different mindset, meaning he may
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: have grown up in an environment the world was his oyster.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: He could obtain anything, there were no limits. Think about
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: the fact that he dropped out of UC Berkeley. He
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: was not worried about earning money or supporting himself. And
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: you know, the requirement to work and to support one's
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: own life is such an important precursor to good mental health.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: We all have to support ourselves. And when you grow
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: up in an environment where that is not a requirement,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: where somebody else is, not only are they supporting your
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: life through childhood, but you will be supported financially for
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: the rest of your life, that dramatically changes your mindset.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: And also, he was supporting Burmant financially, which means that
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: that money didn't really mean much to him until he
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: was giving it away. People who have a lot of
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: money don't think much of it until somebody else wants it,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: and then they can be notoriously cheap. You know, the
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: studies that people who have less money are more generous,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: people who have more money are more stingy. And also
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: he had endless resources to commit whatever crimes he wanted
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: to commit through his life. I want to hear Susan
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Bermant speaking to our friends at CBS murder victim confidant
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: of Robert Durst. Did she know exactly what happened to
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Durst wife? My father, Davy Berman, who worked for Meyer,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Lansky and Frank Costello and Murder Incorporated. He came out
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: of Sing Sing. I believe it was the end of
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: the thirties. Lansky and Costello gave him a choice, what
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: city do you want to run, and we'll give you
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: a million dollars and he said, I just want train
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: fare to Minneapolis, and I want to run the rackets
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: into Twin Cities. This, of course is before gambling was legal.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: My father's only skill was gambling, so he went to
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: the Twin Cities and that time it was wide open,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: even though the police were paid off. This was the
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: end of the thirties the early forties, and he ran
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Minneapolis for many years and he was very very good
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: about it and good at it. And then he went
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: to the war, he volunteered for service. He came back
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: a war hero in nineteen forty five, and Ben Segal
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: said to him, I have this fabulous idea. I've talked
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Meyer Lansky into putting our money into Las Vegas, taking
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: some money out of Cuba. So in nineteen forty five,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: when I was two months old, we came to join
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: my father. At that time, he was partner in three
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: downtown clubs in downtown Las Vegas, the Las Vegas Club,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: the Eldorado, and the Apache, and Ben Segal wanted him
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: to go into partners They were all part of Lanski's group,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: but there were many competing divisions because of Ben Siegel's temper.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: My father always said, beware of a man with a
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: terrible temper. He was his best friend, but he didn't
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: want to be partners with him. But in nineteen forty six,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Myer Lansky talked my father into taking a partnership into Flamingo.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: I grew up in the center of the world. In
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: my opinion. Of course, as a child, it seemed glamorous
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: and it seemed like we were very important, and our
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: town was because everyone came to Las Vegas. The end
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: of the forties the early fifties, Las Vegas was like
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Monte Carlo in the United States, and my father was
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: always saying, oh, look there's a king. It was from
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Thailand or something, or there's a count. I thought it
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: was the most glamorous city in the world, and all
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: things seemed possible. Celebrities, of course, came to our house
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: since my father owned the hotel, and my father was
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: kind of they said, the Henry Kissinger of Vegas. He
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: was very diplomatic, and he was the one that worked
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: out all the arguments between everyone else. He was a
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: silent partner in all seven hotels when he died in
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: ninety seven. So where were in the hotel's constant? My
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: father was the boss. Time Stories with Nancy Grace Regan.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Robert Durst, the New York real estate mogul whose life
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: was detailed in an HBO series, has been ordered to
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: stand trial for murder. Durrist is joined with killing his
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: friend Susan Burmant eighteen years ago at her home in
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Bennedic Canyon. Prosecutors say he didn't due to a renewed
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: investigation about the disappearance of his first wife. He remains
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: in jail without bail. The HBO showed that Jinks looked
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: into the disappearance of his wife Ann Berman's murder, and
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Durst was caught saying that he had killed them all,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: killed them all and maybe more. According to confidants of
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: real estate millionaire Robert Durrist, that's our friends at ABC
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: seven LA. How many people did Robert Durst murder? And why?
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: With me and All Star panel Wendy Patrick, Floyd Steiger,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, doctor Bethany Marshall, and Levi Page. Will
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: he ever be convicted? To Levi Page? Back to the
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: way that Susan Burman, who we were just listening to
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: about her childhood growing up in the casinos with her
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: dad in charge running multiple casinos, the life she led.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Then she collides with Robert Durst at Berkeley. He drops out,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: she keeps going, gets her masters. Tell me, I know
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: you say she was a failed journalist. I don't necessarily
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: see her has failed at anything, but she and Durst
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: remained friends till the very end when she turns up dead.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Tell me about the scenario of Susan Burman's body being discovered.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: So Nancy police got a note and it was to
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: the Beverly Hills Police Department and it said cadaver with
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: her address. They went to the home and they found
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: her dead. She had been shot in the back of
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: her head execution style, they believe around Christmas Eve in
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: the year two thousand. They discovered her body ten days
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: after she had been stright, so she had been laying
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: in her house dead for ten day. Wait a minute,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute. To Joseph Scott Morgan,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, an author Blood Beneath My
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Feet on Amazon, I'll let that sink in from Blood
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Beneath my Feet. Okay, how do they know, Joseph Scott Morgan,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: that she had been lying there for ten days? My
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: suspicion is, Nancy, is that she had been probably in
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: a moderate state of decomposition by that point. Tom, and
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: we can in forensics, we can actually put parameters on
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: our markers on how long someone has been dead based
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: upon how advanced their changes after death are. So that
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: helps us to establish the timeline. And in a case
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: like this where essentially the police have no suspects, that
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: is essential because we can go back and marking time
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: when this possibly happened. You can't make it. You can't
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: make it an absolute, but at least it's a place
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: to start. Josiceky Morgan. Isn't it true that medical examiners
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: look not just at the body but extrinsic evidence in
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: order to make their decision. I'd like to imagine they
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: can look at a body and magically determine so many things,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: like the last moment they breathed air. But they also
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: look at, for instance, they're the last sighting of the person,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: the last email, the last phone message, the last text,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: they look at, the last time they ate. They track
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: the food through the body. That's why we have a
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: fleet of medical examiner investigators that go to the scene
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: and develop forensic evidence to determine a timeline. True or false? Yes,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: that is true an answer. Now, I want you to
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: take a listen. This is called the bathroom audio. You know,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: those of us in a broadcasting know that when you're
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: miked up somebody somewhere in some dark little control room
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: that you don't even know where it is. Here's everything
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: that you say. We see that come out over and
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: over in the media when somebody's busted saying something they
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: wish you didn't know about. That's what happened when Robert
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Durst agreed to a sit down conversation with HBO when
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: they were filming The Jinks, The Life and Deaths of
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Robert Durst. Now they were questioning him about Susan Burman
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: listened to what he was caught saying as he went
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: for a tete break question. I'm having difficulty with a question.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: I killed him all of course. Wow. Cloyd Steiger joining
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: me twenty two years homicide detective author Seattle's Forgotten serial
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: killer Gary Jane Grant Cloyd what an idiot? Or is he?
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: You know? Some would argue he subconsciously wanted the world
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: to know. I don't buy into that. I think he
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: was just an inch it. Yeah, well, you know that's
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: what is gifts to people like me is people when
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: they they're very cocky and confident, and he's an entitled guy,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: and then he makes a stupid mistake like that and
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: basically makes an ad Michigan's interest that he killed them
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: all and says it out loud. I mean that that
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: gift wrapped to the detectives in the prosecutor too. Wendy Patcheck,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: California Prosecutor author Red Flags Wendy Way. Yeah, you know
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: one of those things about one of the pesky things
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: about confessions. Did you have to prove that that's exactly
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: what it was and not somebody speaking off the cuff
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: while playing all of the excuses and defenses. Nancy, you
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: and I are well, wait, wait, role playing alone in
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: the bathroom while you're in zipping your pants and teaching
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: I hope what I have tried so many cases, Nancy,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: I have heard it all, and even scarier than that,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: I have heard juror say, how can you believe that
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: something somebody says in private is a confession? Why would
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: they make a confession to themselves? These are the kinds
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: of defenses I would already anticipate as a prosecutor. But
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you a pliny at the side of the coin.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: I think it's powerful evidence of really kind of rethinking,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: rehashing was this guy doing giving this interview to begin with,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: and then following it up with almost talking to yourself
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: about what just happened. So now we've got the corpus
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: plus a confession. Now we've got a case. So it's
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: highly significant. I just want to point out that sadly
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: there are two sides to every story as far as
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: what a jury's going to hear. And you're so right
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: about that. To doctor Bethany Marshall's psychoanalyst, I don't know
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: how you're gonna twist this around in your psychoanalyst way. Okay,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: hit me. What do you make of what Robert Durst said,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: still miked up, gone on a bathroom break from the
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: HBO series The Jenks, stating quote, what the hell did
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: I do? What the hell did I do? Kill them all?
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Of course, he mumbles to himself, unaware he's actually being
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: recorded still while he's in the bathroom, while the toilet's flushing, right, So, yeah,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: that was the problem. Now, that's the problem. Didn't flush
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: loud enough, loudly enough, you know, Nancy. One of the
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: things we see with sociopaths paths that they have a
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: very shallow emotional life, and that's why they do so
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: many weird, cookie thrill seeking kinds of things, like him
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: dressing up like a deaf, mute old lady, you know,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: strange things that you know, I think are adding from
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: color to his day because he doesn't have much else
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: to do with himself. So the fact that he went
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: on the jinks and he gave these interviews. Is a
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: testimony to his shallow emotional life, meaning that he didn't
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: have much else going on. He didn't think anything bad
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: would come of it. And that's the grandiosity too, right.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: When you're grandiose, when you sit at the right hand
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: of God, you never think you're going to get in trouble.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: You Oh whoa wait, wait, wait, hold on, Mascy, please
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: don't I got into this. That's the last thing I need.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure he's already mad at me. I don't
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: know that for sure, but please don't drag him. I
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: put him in the same sentence as Robert Durst. Okay,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: pick it up well. And then the thing with sociopaths
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: because they lack of conscience, and we see our fMRI
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: brain imaging that the part of the brain that's responsible
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: for empathy is very atro feeds, so they don't really
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: have a sense of what other people are going to
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: think and feel about them. That's why they kill so casually.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: They have no remorse, They have no empathy. But that
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: same quality leads them to have lack of big pictures thinking,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: lack of cause and effects thinking. They think that they
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: will never get into trouble for their actions. So so
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: if any I'm gonna say, if any normal person killed people,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: but that an oxy more on anybody who gets in trouble.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: If I get in trouble, if I'm speeding, I'm afraid
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: the police officer will pull me, pull me, will track
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: me down. But a sociopath is not goun to be
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: afraid that anybody's could think anything about their actions. So
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: that's why he said that. In the Bathroom Crime Stories
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, he said, I guess to you, you
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: know that I think of myself as someone who was
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: born with a burden that I couldn't care well. I
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: said to him, you know, some people say that you
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: are the unluckiest guy in the world because you lost
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: your beloved wife, you lost your best friend in Los Angeles,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: and you lost your neighbor who is your good friend.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: You're elderly across the hall neighbor in Galveston, Texas. And
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: other people say you're the luckiest guy in the world
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: because you killed your wife, you killed your best friend,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: you killed your neighbor, and you got away with it. Wow,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: you're hearing Filmmaker Andrew Jarecki. HBO's the Jinks telling dir
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: everything he's managed to get away with. But is his
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: day of reckoning? Finally, here the multimillion dollar real estate
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: air on trial in LA for the two thousand murder
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: of his closest friend, Susan Burman. Back to the facts,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Levipage Crime online dot Com investigative reporter tell me why
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: we think Burman was murdered by Robert Durst. Okay, so, Nancy,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: the police, ten days after they believe she was killed,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: got a letter in the mill and it was addressed
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: with the Beverly Hills Police Department. And what is so weird?
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: And it's a cadaver and it had Susan Burman's address,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: And what is so weird is that Beverly Hills was
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: spelled incorrectly. It was spelled b e v E r
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: l e y Hills with an extra E after the L.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: And they found letters that Robert Durst had wrote in
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: the past to Susan Burman, and he had spelled it
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: wrong in that same way. Furthermore, they had also looked
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: at his handwriting, and he does not use lowercase letters
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: when he writes. Everything is an all cap. Both of
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: those letters were written in all caps. Wow, you know what.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: I've done a lot of handwriting analysis. My first was
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: on a bank robber who was dyslexic, and he wrote,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: don't touch the al ram. This is a Roby al ram.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: He reversed RNA, he messed up Roby and throughout his
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: handwriting example exemplar, he obviously had heard of punctuation, he
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: knew it existed, but that was pretty much it. He
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: would say, don't comma touch period the comma Roby comma,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: this period is a Comma Roby period comma. When he
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: did his handwriting exemplar, that was the bank robbery note.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: When he did the exemplar, he did the same thing.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: He put in commas and periods all throughout everything he wrote.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: It was incredible. So here, Joe Scot Morgan and forensics expert,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: we see not only the same handwriting itself, but we
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: see the same mode of all caps and misspellings. It's
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: like a dental X ray. You see all the same cavities. Yeah.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: And what's fascinating about handwriting analysis question documents is that
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: when it's generated from one particular or specific person's hand,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: it's really hard for these individuals to go against the
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: tide of what you've learned since you were very very
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: little and you first began to structure letters and write
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: sentences and all of these things, that gets ingrained. So
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: this idea that he's writing in all caps, that's a
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: learned behavior that he's misspelling. I think one of the
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: questions I would have this guy is obviously at least
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: somewhat bright. I mean, he studied economics at Berkeley. I
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: have to think at some point in time he understood
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: how to structure the English language. Is he doing this
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: on purpose? Would he misspell intentionally? I don't know. Maybe
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: it you know, maybe it goes to this grand world
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: he's created. But it's easy to tie this back to him,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: that he generated this letter. It all depends on what
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: prosecutors can do with it. LEVI page tell me about
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: her actual murder, the layout of her home, the time
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: of death, what more do we know? Well, Nancy, here's
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: the reason why police believe that she was gunned down
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: execution style Christmas Eve and was in the home ten
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: days before they discovered her. They had a they interviewed
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: a friend, and that night that was the last time
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: she was seen. She went to the movies with this friend,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: and they believed. Police believe that she was murdered by
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: someone that she knew, that she opened the door, and
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: that she turned around. She was comfortable enough with this
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: person that she turned around and they shot her in
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: the back of the head. Robert Durst one final right
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: now for the murder office so called best friends Susan Breman.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Durst has always been suspected into other crimes, the disappearance
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: of first wife Kathleen, and the murder and dismemberment of
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Morris Black, his elderly neighbor. He was acquitted of that
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: murder in two thousand and three by Nutcake jury. Here
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: we have him on tape stating what the hell did
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I do? Kill them? All? Of course, seems like a
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: lot of people are afraid to come forward. Take a
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: listen to a witness, a secret witness whose tales eron
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Mortiarty at forty eight hours. They're afraid this individual was
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: listit as a secret witness. In fact, he came to
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: a back door in the courtroom and he was accompanied
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: by protection guards because he's afraid that because Durst still
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: has one hundred million dollars, that he could be killed
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: if he comes. This is a long time friend of
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Robert Durst. He worked and his wife still works for
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: the realty company here in New York. Real estate company
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: in New York. And he says there'll be a lot
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: of questions raised about this, but he says that Susan
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Burman number one told him that killed his first wife.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Cathy said that. And he even says at a dinner
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Durst said to him and in reference to Susan Berman,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: the victim in this case, that it was either her
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: or me, insinuating that he may have killed did kill
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Susan Burman. Wow. In addition to the murder charge, Dersch
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: is also facing felony firearms and drug charges because when
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: he was arrested, he had a Smith and Wesson thirty
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: eight revolver with marijuana, forty two thousand dollars in cash,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: a latex mask, a fake ID passport, and maps of Cuba.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: He was expecting a package with one hundred and seventeen
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars in cash and other personal items. You know,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: that sounds like a to do list for a killer.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: To Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags, I
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: mean Wendy do you have a latex mask stuffed in
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: your back pocket? You know, Dancy, that is like a
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: swag bag of criminal liability. I can't believe all those items.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure maybe one of each might be
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: some innocent explanation. But to have all those together under
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: the rest of the circumstances, you know, that says we
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: all know what putting two cases together is about. It's
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: every piece of circumstantial evidence could be explained away by
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: a crafty defense attorney. But when you have this many
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: points that are together, we begin to connect the dots. So, yes,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: what he had in his possession really lends some credibility
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: to this idea, not only that he's guilty, but that
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: he also had other plans, maybe to escape, to flee
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: the country. It's all so interesting, and it's also going
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: to be interesting to that jury eventually. I mean, really
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: think about it, Cloyd Steiger, all that cash and a
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: map of Cuba and a fake ID, could he have
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: planeted any more things that make himself look more guilty?
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Between all this and that, it sounds like Scott Peterson,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Remember Scott Peterson with a fake ID and all the
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: money and all the condoms. Yeah, yeah, and well this
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: guy also felt so because he'd gotten away with it
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: so many times. That's why he feels emboldened to do
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: this type of stuff because he keeps getting away with it.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: And so it's just, you know, he gets more and
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: more the stupid stuff like that. We just, like I said,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: it's a gift. What about it to you? Jesse's got
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: more again. I think that he showed up and he's
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: well planned. This is commonly what's referred to as a
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: kill kid if you look at it from an investigative standpoint,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: he has the means at his hand to facilitate something
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: like this. And going back to what we said earlier,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: the fact that he got into this house or someone
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: got into this house with no struggle whatsoever. This young
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: lady was taken unawares. And you know, this actually happened
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: in Benedet Canyon and it's associated with a couple of
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: other horrible things to take Lobbianca murders for instance. This
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: is an isolated, exclusive area. You don't have homicides that
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: take place in this area, and such a violent crime.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Someone was prepared that showed up. They had knowledge of
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: this individual and she was taken unawares shot in the
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: back of the head. It's actually, you know, when I
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: look at this, you have to think about who has
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: access to this woman, who has the ability to pull
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: us off time stories. With Nancy Grace, she became more independent.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Wasn't the fairy tale anymore? No? In fact, Cathy's brother
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Jim told us, it was more like a horror movie.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: There's a dark side of Bob that you know, was
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: fairly well camouflaged when they were first going out and
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: get married, but escalated ultimately into psychological abuse, economic abuse,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: and physical abuse. Kathy warned all of us that if
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: anything ever happened, looked to Bob, Bob did it, don't
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: let him get away with it. Then, in nineteen eighty two,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Kathy Durst disappeared. How did he take it? You know?
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: He asked if we had seen her, if we heard anything,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: if we knew anything. But they didn't. No one did.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Bob was typically almost detached in his demeanor. You almost
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know nothing, I don't know anything. That's from
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: CBS forty eight Hours, Robert Durst The Lost Years. A
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: dark side escalated to psychological abuse and physical abuse. Cathy
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: told friends, if anything ever happened to her quote, don't
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: let Bob get away with it. Well, that is quite
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: the irony, quite the coincidence, because we know, years before
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: her murder, Susan Burman, his best friend, warned another friend
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: that if anything ever happened to her, her friend, real
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: estate tycoon Robert Durst, did it. The bombshell allegation was
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: made by Burman's very dear friend, Miriam Barnes, who testified
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: during a pre trial hearing in LA The judge allowed
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: some witnesses to testify early in the event they die
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: before the trial is over. Hey, that's not a good outlook.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: You know, you're got Robert Durst on trial from murder,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: and they're afraid the witnesses are going to kill over
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: called on just a moment, jos Goot Morgan once in, Joscott,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: what do you make of the evidence in the Susan
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Burman murder. I think that it's it's significant, Nancy, in
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: the sense that these are all specific tiebacks. Potentially too Durst.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: I go back to this idea of and this is circumstantial,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: but who would have access to her, who would know
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: her schedule? So this ties back to the evidence. The
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: physical evidence that we have, most notably the weapon that
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: was utilized, and also the attitude or the physical attitude,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: the relationship between these two when she was shot. So
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: this is powerful stuff when you combine all of us.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: What do you think is a single most powerful evidence
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: against him? I think that probably from a circumstantial standpoint,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: the relationship he had with her tying this back, she
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: had information, at least some people believe she had information
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: relative to what happened at Durst White, which you know,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: to this day is really a big history. You know,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: there's no way to tell. And he had to, you know,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: kind of get rid of anybody that might have firsthand
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: knowledge something that he had relaid back to them and
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: as as tight as they were, I mean this this
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: woman was literally his best friend, Nancy, And that's chilling
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: in and of itself that he would go to these
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: links who had the motive and the means to rub
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: this lady out? And why why? I mean she's she's
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: kind of a passive character. You know, every photo I've
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: ever seen to Miss Burman, she's got a smile on
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: her face. She looks like a very nice lady. People
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: describe her as being bubbly, but You look at this
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: and you think that, just like a lightning bolt out
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: of the blue, this woman is literally executed in her
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: own home in this very exclusive area in Los Angeles.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: It all signs point back to one location, and you
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: know that's mister Durst. Well. Also, is it true LEVI
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: page that Durst admits, through his lawyer, admits he wrote
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: the cadaver let tipping off cops to the location a
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Susan Burman's body. Yes, in port filings, his legal team
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: has said that he is the person that wrote the letter.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: The question is, how would he know that she died
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: unless he was at the home and saw the dead body,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: or unless he killed her man. I'm looking at it
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: right now. The famous note misspells Beverly Hills as Beverly L.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: E Y, just as Durst had in a ninety nine
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: letter with matching block lettering, and it is uncovered in
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: the documentary the Jenks. I don't know why the cops
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: didn't find this, but that's neither here nor there. When
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: you look at this, it's it's identical. Even a lay person,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: not anyone who is an expert in handwriting analysis can
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: see it. You can see it at Crime online dot
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: com take a listen to this, oh and told Durst
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: he was here to talk about one particular murder, Susan Burman's.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: I know that she was somebody that was important to
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: you and that you cared about. Best friend, best friend,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: and Lewin thought one death. Durst truly mourned when you
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: killed Susan. That was not something you wanted to do.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna stay away from killing Susan. You know that
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: the killer left a note right the cadaveroe, Why would
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: you think the killer would have left a note. I'm
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: going to stay away from there. Let me go another way.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Whoever wrote the note was a part of killing her? Yes?
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: You agree? Right? Yes, no question right. Whoever wrote that
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: note had to be involved in Susan's death. Okay, that's
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: our friends at Dayline NBC. That was Keith Morrison. So
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: his own lawyers have admitted. I mean, there's really no
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: way you can deny when you look at the comparison
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: to Kloyd Steiger, twenty two years homicide detective and author,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: and then if you match that up with what he
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: says in the HBO documentary that whoever wrote the cadaver
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: note tipping cops off that Susan Burman's dead body was
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: in her home had to have something to do with
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: her death. I mean, there's your conviction right now. I mean,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: this is for the prosecution to lose. It's happening right now. Yeah,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: that's that's another gift hand delivered. And you know the
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: fact that he admitted through his attorney's writing this note
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: reminds me of him admitting he cut up the body
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: of the Kabak and Texas and still got away with it.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: So he just feels emboldened that way too. And that
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: the fact that he just said actively he has no
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: question now that he wrote the note. Whoever wrote this
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: note did has something to do with Susan's death. Of
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: course they did. And I think the reason he wrote
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: the note is it's kind of is because she hadn't
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: been founded. He knew that he'd probably been checking the news,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: and he really didn't want his friend to later and rot. Maybe,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: so that's why he decided to send that note. That's
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: just what I think. He's a bizarre guy. He kind
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: of reminds me of the guy from the DuPont Family
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: year that got involved that wrestling team and end up
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: killing a guy just an entitled, rich guy with so
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: much money didn't know what to do. But I think
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: it's all catching up to him this time. Patrick. Part
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: of the problem with cases like us is what defense
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: attorneys have to do is clean up the statements their
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: clients already made. And when you're doing that, in this case,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: trying to spin the statements that Robert Durst already made
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: for whatever reason decided to talk to HBO, deciding to
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: sit down and engage in these interviews, you're going to
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: have these subjects to interpretations. You're right that this prosecutions
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: to lose, but it's also true, as all of us know,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: we have seen cases go sideways when there is some
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: other plausible explanation. What fuels that defense theory is the
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: fact that these women seem so wholesome and so likable,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: as we've already heard Joseph Scott Morgan point out, and
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: yet they were with this man. How bad could he
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: have been? That's going to be part of the defense.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: What Nancy, you and I would say, having done this
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: job as long as we have, is even well educated,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: nice people can be fooled. To Bethany Marshall, you hear
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: him say, I want to stay away from the Susan
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Burman cadaver letter. He won't answer anything about it. You know,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: if my friend had been killed, I would be doing
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: anything I could think of to try to find the
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: killer instead of quote staying away from discussing the cadaver letter,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: telling Couts where the body was and that she was
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: sitting there decomposing. And also his emboldened attitude wait end
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, Well, Nancy, this guy has way too much
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: money and way too much time of hand, and an
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: enormous amount of energy combined with a homicidal instinct. And
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: I keep trying to think, how did these killings unfold
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: in the context each of these interpersonal relationships. First of all,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: his wife who goes missing, the elderly neighbor who's dismembered
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: and the head ends up in the bay, and then
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Susan Burman, who shot in the back of the head.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: What transpired in these relationships? And it seems to me
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: that he must have exerted an enormous amount of influence
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: and control over these people. He must have had homicidal
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: intent for months or years prior to killing them. I
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: can't believe that he just made friends with a neighbor
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: across the hall, because you know, he wanted to go
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: have tea with him. I think somehow he selected these
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: victims and then the homicidal urge waxed and waned, and
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: then with the control slipped over each of these people,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: then he moved in for the kill. I mean, obviously,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: with Susan Burman, he has some motivation because he may
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: have talked to her at great length about his other crimes.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: So that's a very simple motivation that we all understand.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: But I think there's more complex underlying psychological motivations like
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: the wish to kill that just exists just in and
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: of itself. Being kind of a blabber mouth like he
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: is on all of these interviews, he probably blabbed and
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: blabbed to Susan Burman, glorifying his crimes and reliving the
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: satisfaction of them. He probably couldn't help but talk to
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Susan Burman about these crimes. So we think of all
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: these people coming to trial and they're afraid, they're afraid
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: for their lives. The judge is afraid somebody's been to
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: kill over the fact that he may have blabbed and
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: confessed to many people there are many people out there
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: who's saying, thank God for the grace of God. Go
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: I you know, I think I'm glad he didn't kill me.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: And they may know a lot, but they may be
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: afraid because this man is worth one hundred million dollars.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: He comes from a great family, financial empire, and they're
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: nancy if they're afraid, because not only did he kill
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: three people, but there are other people out there who
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: know his secrets and know he has this enormous amount
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: of energy that he could probably even exert behind bars.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: It's been so many years since Sazan Barman's murder to
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, how likely do you think it is he
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: will be convicted. He's skated away from Morris Black's murder
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: and Kathy Durst. Yeah, that is really significant because you
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: have a guy that has gotten away with a lot
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: over the years. At least that's the prosecution theory. And
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: why now would you decide to sit down and say
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: what he did. One of the rationalites could have been
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: he thought he got away with it and it was
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: okay now, perhaps to regain the spotlight through talking about
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: something that would never then come up again. That was
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: a big mistake, I know and answer. You pointed this
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: out before that that might be one of the reasons
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: behind the sudden motivation not only to speak, but to
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: answer those very dangerous questions that his defense attorneys now
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: are going to have to explain. And another issue to
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Chloyd Steiger, is this the only chance we're going to
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: ever have for justice, I mean indirectly for the disappearance
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: and death of Durt's first wife. Oh, I think so,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: because I don't think that. Well, you don't have a body.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: You have circumstantial evidence, but not enough to charge your
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: convictim of that crime. So this is your only shot
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: for her. Otherwise, you know, there's not going to be
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: any justice in that case. Even if they find the
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: body now it'll be scaled, there won't be any physical evidence,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: so it would be very, very difficult. We wait as
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: justice unfolds in a California courtroom in the murder of
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Susan Burman, Nancy grace Kind's story signing off Goodbye Friend,