Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Plan To Buy 1M Bitcoin is BACK With A HUGE TWIST!! | EP 1201

Transcript

Plan To Buy 1M Bitcoin is BACK With A HUGE TWIST!! | EP 1201 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:00
  Two huge things just happened yesterday that could send
• 0:04
  Bitcoin to $1 million sooner than you think.
• 0:09
  The bill to buy 1,000,000 Bitcoin is back, but with a very
• 0:14
  interesting twist. And the new?
• 0:16
  Inflation numbers just cleared the runway for Donald Trump or
• 0:20
  for the for the Fed to change course, lower interest rates and
• 0:24
  the money printer gober. Today we're going to be
• 0:27
  revealing how this game changing bill.
• 0:30
  Not only pay off America's debt, but there's a new angle to the
• 0:33
  bill that seems to imply you might not have to pay capital
• 0:37
  gains on your Bitcoin. That's not 100% confirmed, but a
• 0:40
  lot of people are speculating and they're interpreting it in
• 0:43
  that way. But before we get to that, let's
• 0:46
  play the clip. Clip from Cynthia Lummis
• 0:48
  announcing the bill yesterday. Senator Cynthia Lummis, let's
• 0:52
  check it out. I'm so pleased to announce that
• 0:58
  today I will be reintroducing the Bitcoin Act and I'll be
• 1:13
  joined here shortly by Senator Justice of West Virginia, who is
• 1:18
  one of the Co sponsors and we have several other additional Co
• 1:23
  sponsors and a lot of it is a result of this.
• 1:31
  So I mean, absolutely historic. Senator Lummis has been really
• 1:35
  pushing this forward for a long time now.
• 1:38
  The Bitcoin Act. And here's the official press
• 1:42
  release. Congressman Nick, I don't know
• 1:45
  how to say it, biggish. Thank you Opti and Senator
• 1:49
  Lummis introduced landmark Bitcoin Act to establish AUS
• 1:54
  Strategic Bitcoin reserve, a groundbreaking bill that sets
• 1:58
  forth in law a national cryptocurrency policy that will
• 2:02
  establish a strategic Bitcoin reserve to enhance America's
• 2:05
  financial stability, global competitiveness and economic
• 2:08
  sovereignty. Announcing the bill during an
• 2:10
  address at the Bitcoin for America summit happened
• 2:13
  yesterday. Great, great talks and speeches.
• 2:16
  By the way. Congressman Beich reaffirmed his
• 2:20
  commitment to securing the United States leadership in
• 2:24
  digital assets and financial innovation.
• 2:26
  The introduction of this bill marks a historic moment in U.S.
• 2:30
  Financial Policy, ensuring that Bitcoin, often referred to as
• 2:34
  digital gold, is formally recognized as a strategic
• 2:37
  national asset. Quote America cannot afford to
• 2:41
  fall behind in this financial revolution.
• 2:43
  A strategic Bitcoin reserve ensures that the the US remains
• 2:47
  an economic powerhouse, leveraging digital assets to
• 2:51
  counter adversarial monetary policies and reinforce our
• 2:55
  global leadership. Quote The Bitcoin Act is about
• 2:59
  securing America's economic future.
• 3:02
  We must lead, not follow in this digital revolution.
• 3:06
  The time to act is now. Senator Lummis has been
• 3:09
  instrumental in bringing the Bitcoin discussion to Capitol
• 3:12
  Hill and I'm proud to work alongside her in advancing this
• 3:17
  historic legislation. Right.
• 3:19
  And we just played you guys a clip of her announcing it.
• 3:21
  I mean it, it's it's pretty crazy.
• 3:24
  And one thing I'll say to you guys is I think you have to look
• 3:27
  at things from a historical perspective 'cause it does
• 3:30
  provide does provide a little bit of context back with the six
• 3:35
  one O 2 order, the infamous order by FDR to essentially make
• 3:39
  it illegal for U.S. citizens to own gold and hold gold.
• 3:44
  That was initially done via executive.
• 3:46
  Order. And then it wasn't until that,
• 3:49
  so that what happened 1933 and it wasn't until 1934 that there
• 3:54
  was actual legislation that was passed.
• 3:56
  So the way that it's currently structured and we talk about
• 4:00
  this all the time for you guys, right?
• 4:02
  The the Republicans have a majority in the House.
• 4:05
  So I'm not worried there. I think it will pass the House
• 4:09
  and the Senate is where it becomes a little bit more
• 4:12
  difficult because they only have 53 seats.
• 4:15
  And for whatever reason, it's not it, it, it's not filibuster
• 4:20
  proof. They need at least sixty seats
• 4:22
  or, you know, the bill could be slowed down essentially.
• 4:25
  So they do technically need 7 Democratic senators.
• 4:30
  So it has to be bipartisan for this to be passed and then to be
• 4:33
  put on Trump's desk. I have no doubt in my mind that
• 4:36
  Trump's going to sign this, right?
• 4:38
  Especially, you know, I mean, he did say he wants to make the US
• 4:41
  the Bitcoin capital of the world, right?
• 4:43
  So not surprised at all. There was also some very, very
• 4:47
  interesting talks and speeches too at the at this event.
• 4:52
  I think Bitcoin Policy Institute did a great job.
• 4:54
  Bitcoin Magazine did the coverage.
• 4:57
  Frank Korva, he was there and he he wrote essentially a recap of
• 5:02
  all the most important events, which we're going to go through,
• 5:04
  we're going to go through for you guys.
• 5:07
  One of my favorite keynotes was Jack Mahler's talking to Paulo,
• 5:12
  the CEO of Tether. I found that really, really
• 5:14
  interesting, a very interesting conversation.
• 5:16
  So anyways, I do want to give a shout out to the audience almost
• 5:19
  1000 of you guys watching live between all platforms.
• 5:22
  I want to give a shout out to the rumble audience.
• 5:24
  Of course, we absolutely love you guys appreciate it.
• 5:27
  If you guys are enjoying the show so far, make sure to smash
• 5:29
  that like button really really helps with the algo.
• 5:33
  So let's set a like goal on YouTube.
• 5:36
  We're at 50 likes. Help us break 100 likes within
• 5:39
  the 1st 15 minutes of the show. So if you guys are enjoying the
• 5:42
  show today, smash that like button.
• 5:44
  We're also joined by David C Roy and of course, my legendary Co
• 5:48
  host who's always optimistic optimist fields in the Co host
• 5:52
  today. Anyways, the name of the article
• 5:54
  for the audio listeners is the United States must embrace
• 5:57
  Bitcoin Now a recap of Bitcoin for America.
• 6:01
  It goes on to say the event occurred in the wake of
• 6:03
  President Trump's signing an executive order to establish a
• 6:07
  SPR and the White House hosting its first ever crypto summit.
• 6:13
  One might have expected jingoistic overtones from an
• 6:16
  event with such a title. However, many of the speakers
• 6:19
  acknowledge that Bitcoin is something that will benefit the
• 6:22
  whole world and that partially because of this, the US should
• 6:25
  lead the way in adoption. David Zell, director of BPI, set
• 6:29
  the tone for the event in his opening remarks.
• 6:31
  Our goal today is to continue this process to help people
• 6:35
  understand how Bitcoin benefits America and the world's right
• 6:39
  large. Zell was followed by Senator
• 6:42
  Cynthia Lummis, a long time Bitcoin advocate who made the
• 6:45
  case that it's only natural for America to set the pace when it
• 6:49
  comes to Bitcoin adoption. Quote, this really is freedom
• 6:53
  money, said Senator Lummus. Quote and America should lead
• 6:56
  when it comes to freedom money. Goes on say Michael Saylor had a
• 7:00
  keynote strategy. Executive Chairman Michael
• 7:03
  Saylor agreed with the senator, making the case for why the US
• 7:06
  should lead in this arena. Quote I'm here today to show you
• 7:09
  how the strategic Bitcoin reserve represents a strategy
• 7:12
  for the United States digital supremacy in the 21st century.
• 7:17
  He went on to argue in favor of Bitcoin as digital property,
• 7:21
  asserting that the United States should acquire as much of it as
• 7:24
  possible so that it could rent and refinance on top of that
• 7:28
  property. He also poised that trillions of
• 7:32
  dollars in commerce will flow over the Bitcoin network, which
• 7:35
  is another reason why the US should prioritize prioritize
• 7:38
  acquiring its share of the network.
• 7:40
  Moreover, he asserted that Bitcoin embodies American values
• 7:44
  and that owning it is the next best thing to living in the US.
• 7:48
  Quote, everyone who is living in Asia, in Africa, would move to
• 7:51
  the US if they could. Quote.
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  They'd move their money to the US if they could.
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  They want the currency of the US.
• 7:58
  They want the security of the US.
• 7:59
  They want the values of the US, but they can't have it.
• 8:02
  So the second best thing they can have is to move their money
• 8:05
  into the Bitcoin network, which has all the values, protection
• 8:09
  and security of the US. Next up was Vivek Ramaswamy.
• 8:13
  This was a very popular presidential candidate.
• 8:16
  He originally was part of Doge. Apparently he's not part of Doge
• 8:19
  anymore, but he gave a speech as well.
• 8:22
  The headline is Bitcoin. Vivek Ramaswamy.
• 8:24
  Bitcoins long term return is the new high risk hurdle rate.
• 8:30
  It goes on to say he set the stage for this claim by making
• 8:32
  the case that we're moving back into an era of scarce capital.
• 8:36
  He shared that that this will be the inverse of the past 15 years
• 8:40
  during which the Fed printed money in mass in a matter
• 8:44
  similar to a drug dealer doyling out drugs to hungry users, as he
• 8:49
  put it. He explained that institutions
• 8:52
  are going to once again have to consider the question, quote,
• 8:55
  what is my opportunity cost of capital?
• 8:58
  And in doing so, they'll have to define a hurdle rate for both
• 9:02
  low and high risk investments. Ramaswamy argued that the hurdle
• 9:06
  rate for low risk investments is the 10 year U.S.
• 9:10
  Treasury, while the hurdle rate for a high risk investment will
• 9:14
  be the rate of return on Bitcoin over a 10 to 15 year period.
• 9:18
  He then closed out his talk by pointing out how American ethos
• 9:22
  and the Bitcoin ethos overlap. I agree, by the way, and he goes
• 9:26
  on to say, quote, I think Bitcoin and what it represents
• 9:30
  more than as a financial asset also helps to fill that hunger
• 9:33
  for a symbol, a reminder of what American greatness is well
• 9:36
  about. You know, I'll say this because
• 9:38
  it's obviously a very American centric event and the way that
• 9:43
  obviously, you know, they're they're all these keynotes are
• 9:47
  to representatives and, and, and I mean, it was hosted in in DC,
• 9:51
  right. But I will say is that, you
• 9:54
  know, to kind of loop in what Saylor was saying in the
• 9:57
  beginning, Bitcoin exports the American dream worldwide, right?
• 10:06
  The American dream is like anyone could own a home now with
• 10:11
  Fiat and how much it's broken things and it's spread
• 10:14
  worldwide, right even the United States, like if you're.
• 10:17
  In the younger generation, you most likely can't afford.
• 10:19
  A place right Bitcoin fixes this.
• 10:22
  Bitcoin makes the American dream possible.
• 10:25
  The American dream isn't dead. The American dream has
• 10:28
  essentially been exported worldwide.
• 10:31
  The it's not that it's dead, it's that you're using the wrong
• 10:34
  currency if you're using Bitcoin.
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  Life gets progressively cheaper over time.
• 10:39
  Things get cheaper, housing gets cheaper, food gets cheaper.
• 10:42
  Everything trends to zero against Bitcoin.
• 10:44
  So I think that's what Sailor meant in the beginning and very,
• 10:47
  very interesting outlook. And again, it's bringing hope to
• 10:49
  the world where you know, the world is is full of full of this
• 10:54
  inflation darkness, I would call it.
• 10:56
  Matthew Pine says this is his keynote.
• 10:59
  The world is paying attention to Bitcoin after the SBR.
• 11:03
  Matthew Pines, executive director of BPI, pointed out
• 11:06
  that Bitcoin is beginning to take center stage in the eyes of
• 11:09
  world leaders for two reasons. The first, he claimed, is
• 11:12
  because you because U.S. debt markets have become increasingly
• 11:15
  fragile, prompting global leaders to start looking to
• 11:19
  invest in a global reserve asset from U.S.
• 11:21
  Treasuries. The second reason is that
• 11:24
  President Trump at President Trump's SBR executive order
• 11:27
  clearly stated that the United States sees Bitcoin as digital
• 11:31
  gold and that it will only be a matter of time before other
• 11:34
  leaders view it the same. I completely agree.
• 11:36
  I mean, this is this is no small, you know, announcement
• 11:41
  that that, you know, this was made.
• 11:45
  I love this. I love the bipartisanship.
• 11:47
  I think it's really important. The Bitcoin Act is definitely
• 11:50
  going to need bipartisanship in order for it to get enacted.
• 11:54
  So this is the last bit I'll read before I I open up the
• 11:57
  panel to to our guest today and of course, Opti Congressman Ro
• 12:02
  Khanna. He's a Democrat from California,
• 12:06
  and he says Democrats should support Bitcoin.
• 12:09
  After a brief talk from Zach Shapiro, head of policy at BPI,
• 12:13
  on why U.S. states should hold Bitcoin in their reserves,
• 12:17
  Representative Khanna said Bitcoin should be bipartisan.
• 12:22
  He also said now people are going to be able to get Bitcoin.
• 12:25
  This is transformational for so many people around the world.
• 12:28
  And This is why the Democratic Party should be embracing this
• 12:31
  as something that can create financial empowerment for people
• 12:34
  not just in the United States, what I was saying earlier, but
• 12:37
  around the world. I 100% agree Bitcoin should not
• 12:41
  be a partisan issue. I think the Elizabeth Warren
• 12:44
  camp made it as such. But Bitcoin is just a neutral
• 12:48
  technology. So I'm really, really glad that
• 12:51
  the fellas over BPI, you know, had someone cross the aisle to
• 12:56
  to represent the Democratic Party.
• 12:58
  Now, I really hope this bill gets passed.
• 13:01
  It will be absolutely historic. Obviously, you'll be very, very
• 13:04
  bullish for the price. But this what we're witnessing
• 13:07
  everybody is essentially the legitimization of Bitcoin, you
• 13:12
  know, and I think that's going to spread like wildfire
• 13:15
  worldwide. I think a lot of people, you
• 13:18
  know, the, regardless of what country you're in is going to
• 13:22
  start looking as you're not going to have a choice.
• 13:25
  Like if the US government is stacking the dip, you know, and
• 13:29
  you're, you're a rival country or you know, you're, you're
• 13:32
  competing with the United States that you're not going to have a
• 13:35
  choice. Especially if number goes up.
• 13:37
  If the US buys the dip and number goes up and all of a
• 13:41
  sudden the US look like like El Salvador where like, you know,
• 13:45
  their average price was what, 80K?
• 13:48
  And you know, Fast forward four years from now, the price of
• 13:50
  Bitcoin is at 500 K. You know, Can you imagine saying
• 13:56
  that in the same sentence? the US government is going to
• 13:58
  look very smart. Bitcoin tends to do that to
• 14:01
  people. They Bitcoin makes people look
• 14:03
  really smart because you know, overtime number goes up and it
• 14:07
  makes you look like a really, really, really good investor,
• 14:09
  right. So anyways, positive news
• 14:12
  overall historic summit that happened in DC yesterday and
• 14:17
  shout out to Senator Lummis and BPI for really leading the
• 14:20
  charge. And we'll we'll see what
• 14:23
  happens, but it's back on the books.
• 14:25
  Ladies and gentlemen, this $1 million Bitcoin buy.
• 14:29
  I think the moment that happens, you know, I think we're going to
• 14:32
  see Bitcoin moon and just to refresh two that doesn't
• 14:35
  necessarily need to happen because there's been in the
• 14:41
  announcement made by Trump this past Friday, he specifically
• 14:45
  said that they're going to try to acquire Bitcoin and budget
• 14:50
  neutral type ways anyhow, right. So again, very positive from a
• 14:54
  price perspective, from a revolution perspective, the
• 14:58
  revolution is self custody. I'll put it at that.
• 14:59
  It's individuals taking back their financial sovereignty
• 15:03
  through not only a wiring Bitcoin, but also putting that
• 15:06
  Bitcoin into cold storage. And by doing that, they're
• 15:10
  reclaiming back their financial sovereignty.
• 15:12
  So I'll leave it at that. I'm going to pass it on to
• 15:15
  David. David, thank you so much for
• 15:16
  joining us on the show today. Man, I feel like everything is
• 15:19
  moving a million mph in in Bitcoin worlds.
• 15:23
  I mean, six months ago, we thought that this industry was
• 15:26
  essentially going to be banned off the face of the earth.
• 15:29
  And then all of a sudden, boom, bum bang.
• 15:31
  You have the president signing executive orders.
• 15:33
  You have senators introducing bills.
• 15:35
  What's your take on all this man?
• 15:39
  Well, first of all, like I know you kind of said that
• 15:42
  facetiously about being banned, but you can never ban Bitcoin.
• 15:45
  You can only ban yourself from it.
• 15:46
  And I think that realization was setting in for a lot of people,
• 15:49
  including these governments where they're like, either, you
• 15:51
  know, get on the train or get off the tracks type thing.
• 15:55
  From a pure moon juice perspective.
• 15:58
  Yeah, let it RIP. Let the game theory play outlet.
• 16:00
  These governments start acquiring as much Bitcoin as
• 16:03
  they can. In the same way that we've for
• 16:05
  many years talked about these kind of global hash wars where
• 16:08
  countries are going to start mining Bitcoin and it's kind of
• 16:10
  a race to start accumulating, you know, power in the Bitcoin
• 16:13
  network. I think the same thing is going
• 16:15
  to be happening with the these governments.
• 16:18
  With that said, if I'm being honest about like my own
• 16:21
  personal views, like I really don't give too much about like
• 16:25
  government securing Bitcoin, let alone like them acquiring it
• 16:28
  possibly via methods of like theft, whether it's like
• 16:31
  taxation or just like stealing funds from them.
• 16:34
  So that's a little bit more of my ideological side coming out.
• 16:37
  Not that I'm against all of these announcements.
• 16:39
  I think it's amazing. I think it's just evidence of
• 16:41
  like how dominant Bitcoin is, is, is becoming.
• 16:43
  But yeah, I mean, there's like a, a deeper ideological
• 16:46
  revolution that in my opinion, governments don't really have as
• 16:49
  much of A role to to to to play here.
• 16:53
  Yeah, yeah. And I, I'd also say on this kind
• 16:55
  of like whole idea that it's like budget neutral strategies
• 16:59
  to acquire more Bitcoin. Like, I don't even know what
• 17:00
  that means. Like I know people have
• 17:01
  speculated, they they know what it means, but it's, it's a
• 17:04
  little bit of just kind of this like hand WAVY, like, hey, maybe
• 17:07
  we'll acquire more, more Bitcoin.
• 17:10
  But right now it's like the SBRS really just them saying, hey,
• 17:12
  like the 200,000 that'll be essentially stole or acquired or
• 17:16
  whatever. Like they're just, they're,
• 17:19
  they're not going to sell it. I'm I'm generally skeptical that
• 17:21
  they'll actually acquire more Bitcoin like out of the they're
• 17:26
  like taking actual dollars or borrowing money and like
• 17:29
  acquiring Bitcoin. I'm generally skeptical that
• 17:31
  that that will actually happen. I did think it was interesting
• 17:34
  though, what Vivek Ramaswamy said about like BTC being the
• 17:39
  the hurdle rate for like longer term, more like risky
• 17:42
  investments. I think that's like very
• 17:44
  compelling. And I do think that's something
• 17:46
  legitimate that private companies will start looking at
• 17:48
  it and saying like, OK, yeah, if I can make, you know, whatever
• 17:52
  the four year CAGR is on Bitcoin, which it is a low right
• 17:55
  now, it's like a 10%. But like, you know, why would I
• 17:59
  make any sort of investment over a long term if, if I feel
• 18:01
  confident, I can, you know, do that in Bitcoin?
• 18:04
  And I do think that will lead to not just governments, but like
• 18:06
  private entities throwing more Bitcoin on, on, on their balance
• 18:09
  sheet as like a, a cash management strategy.
• 18:12
  Love it, love it. And you had so, so much, so many
• 18:15
  good points, man, so much to unpack.
• 18:17
  So let's let's let's start unpacking it, shall we?
• 18:20
  So first thing you said was the ideological bet.
• 18:23
  I could, by the way, completely agree with you.
• 18:25
  I think as Bitcoiners, this is a, this is about the individual,
• 18:29
  right? This is about the individual.
• 18:31
  This isn't about the nation state, right?
• 18:34
  This isn't about the government. This is very bullish stuff in
• 18:37
  regards to price, right, to be very specific.
• 18:40
  But even then, I mean, Bitcoin did peak at the beginning of the
• 18:44
  year, the day of Trump's inauguration.
• 18:45
  It's been kind of downhill since then, right?
• 18:48
  So even with these crazy announcements, you know, it's,
• 18:51
  it hasn't really been bullish to price, but I would say all these
• 18:54
  announcements are extremely bullish to price.
• 18:56
  I think it's going to take some time.
• 18:58
  I also think the market had a lot of this stuff priced in,
• 19:01
  right. It seems like they, I saw it
• 19:04
  also the kind of macroeconomic environment where rates are a
• 19:08
  little bit high. I think the inflation data
• 19:10
  coming in today is very bullish. But you know, to, to go back to
• 19:14
  your point, yes, from an ideological perspective, you
• 19:17
  know, it's kind of like, like, why should I care?
• 19:19
  You know, this is about an individual, this is about, you
• 19:22
  know, like it it bettering my life using Bitcoin.
• 19:26
  And I think you absolutely hit the nail on the head there.
• 19:30
  Another thing that you were talking about is essentially
• 19:33
  the, the idea that no, I, I blanked right now.
• 19:38
  What was the other thing you were talking about?
• 19:39
  I completely blanked. I think first I talked about the
• 19:43
  moon juice and this is powerful for for number go up and I'm I'm
• 19:46
  not naive to that. I did talk about the ideological
• 19:48
  side. I talked about the the budget
• 19:50
  neutral strategies and what if there's any legitimacy to it?
• 19:53
  Thank you. Appreciate it.
• 19:54
  That's, that's what I was going to say.
• 19:55
  That's what I was going to talk about.
• 19:56
  So the budget neutral aspect of it, yes, I mean it's, it's open
• 20:00
  to interpretation. The reality is right that if
• 20:03
  they want to do this the right way, they have to go through the
• 20:06
  legislative process. This is why the the announcement
• 20:10
  from Lummus. Is so big because if this bill
• 20:12
  passed, like yes, they will be able to buy $1 million one, one
• 20:16
  million Bitcoin. But if bill, if this bill
• 20:19
  doesn't pass, the, the way that they're trying to go around that
• 20:23
  the executive branch is they're basically saying, listen, we're
• 20:25
  going to be able to acquire Bitcoin at in a budget neutral
• 20:30
  manner, which means that it's not going to be a burn in on the
• 20:32
  taxpayer. So a lot of people are
• 20:34
  speculating that essentially they're going to start to
• 20:36
  reallocate budgets towards acquiring Bitcoin.
• 20:40
  But as David was saying, a lot of that is theory.
• 20:43
  Sailor said he would like to contribute to help to come up
• 20:46
  with ideas. But essentially they don't
• 20:49
  really have the authority to just use American taxpayer money
• 20:52
  to acquire Bitcoin. So they have to do it in a way
• 20:55
  where it's budget neutral. They're they're not spending
• 20:57
  additional money, they're just reallocating some of the
• 21:00
  existing, some of the existing resources and they're, they're,
• 21:03
  you know, they're pointing that towards Bitcoin.
• 21:05
  Could they do that? Is that legal?
• 21:06
  I have no idea. I mean, all the things that I've
• 21:08
  seen the last 10 years, I feel like the government could
• 21:11
  basically do anything and then apologize later.
• 21:13
  So, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if if they did it and
• 21:17
  I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't do it right.
• 21:20
  So anyways, Opti, I mean, dude, I, I feel like every week, bro,
• 21:23
  there's just more and more and more good news.
• 21:26
  I, I saw a, a tweet from Sailor saying like next week something
• 21:30
  big is coming. Like I, I feel like there's
• 21:32
  something big every week, man, Like just constant news that's
• 21:36
  happening. What's your take on this, man?
• 21:38
  Are you, you know, are you as what?
• 21:42
  How do you feel about what Dave was saying?
• 21:44
  Yeah, Well, I, I tend to kind of agree.
• 21:47
  I've been saying for a while now on the show that I think the
• 21:49
  narrative around a strategic Bitcoin reserve might be
• 21:52
  stronger than the actual like mechanics of it playing out.
• 21:55
  And I think we're starting to see this obviously play out on
• 21:58
  the global scale, that now that Bitcoin has pretty much been
• 22:01
  endorsed by the US government, a lot of nations around the world
• 22:04
  and banks around the world, they're all starting to take
• 22:07
  Bitcoin seriously. Obviously the first domino was
• 22:10
  like Larry Fink, and now we have the US government.
• 22:13
  So I do tend to, I kind of agree with what David is saying that
• 22:17
  and what you said. I'm I'm very much more inclined
• 22:20
  to be bullish on people taking Bitcoin versus, you know, nation
• 22:24
  state acquiring and accumulations of Bitcoin.
• 22:26
  But I think the narrative around it is, is obviously huge.
• 22:29
  And this is something we've been talking about a long time on the
• 22:32
  show about now Bitcoin seems to be maturing and we are entering
• 22:36
  a new paradigm. And now just kind of going into
• 22:39
  this reintroduction of the Bitcoin Act by Senator Lummus
• 22:42
  and Nick Begich is there is some interesting things here.
• 22:45
  Now they have 6 Co sponsors to this bill.
• 22:48
  And I believe the numbers so far are 12 politicians that are on
• 22:51
  board. So it does seem like it's
• 22:53
  picking up steam. And it does seem like there's
• 22:56
  more of a, a pallet for actually acquiring Bitcoin.
• 22:59
  And Nico, you did misspoke a little bit on, on a little
• 23:03
  earlier. It's not $1 million buying a
• 23:05
  Bitcoin. It's buying 1,000,000 Bitcoin by
• 23:08
  2029. I did correct myself though.
• 23:10
  I said $1 million initially and then I said 1,000,000 people.
• 23:13
  In the chat are like wait was it 1,000,000 Bitcoin or $1,000,000?
• 23:16
  It's 1,000,000 Bitcoin. 1,000,000 Bitcoin, that's the
• 23:18
  plan and and the the long term plan is that they want to use
• 23:22
  that to pay off the US debt yeah.
• 23:23
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 23:25
  Now there is another thing that David did bring up and you
• 23:29
  brought up as well. I, I found that Vivek speech
• 23:32
  pretty interesting, though I think I might disagree a little
• 23:35
  bit. He said like Bitcoin has become
• 23:38
  the high risk hurdle rate and most people are using treasuries
• 23:42
  as the hurdle rate that you need to essentially, you know, make
• 23:45
  more than 5% on, on treasuries to basically justify any
• 23:49
  investment. And maybe it's just 'cause I'm a
• 23:51
  Bitcoin maxi and I, and I'm like super biased here.
• 23:54
  I'm like, why would you buy anything else besides Bitcoin,
• 23:56
  even if it's quote UN quote high risk at this point?
• 23:58
  Like Bitcoin is the hurdle rate. If you're not, if your
• 24:01
  investment aren't doing better than Bitcoin, like why are you
• 24:04
  even buying it? As far as I'm concerned?
• 24:05
  But also I'm a bitcoiner. I'm, you know, all in on
• 24:08
  Bitcoin. I'm a whatever sailors triple
• 24:11
  maxi, you know, claim is. But there is one thing
• 24:14
  interesting and I do want to bring it up because I am
• 24:17
  definitely one of these people that are speculating on this
• 24:20
  part of the bill. So let me pull up this bill real
• 24:23
  quick. Nico read the beginning of it,
• 24:25
  but at the very end is something very interesting and I think
• 24:29
  this is a new wrinkle. I don't.
• 24:30
  Remember this? Yeah, yeah, I don't.
• 24:32
  I remember this being a wrinkle in the old introduction of the
• 24:35
  Lummus bill. And maybe there just wasn't a
• 24:37
  pallet there yet, Like it wasn't favorable to even talk in this
• 24:40
  way. But we've come a long way in the
• 24:42
  last year and it's this part right here.
• 24:44
  So a key provision of the Bitcoin Act affirms the right of
• 24:48
  private individuals and businesses to own, hold and
• 24:51
  transact Bitcoin freely. The bill explicitly prohibits
• 24:55
  the federal government from interfering with self custody
• 24:57
  rights, reinforcing the core American principles of financial
• 25:00
  sovereignty and economic. Obviously, this is super vague
• 25:04
  at this point and we'll only be able to see after the fact what
• 25:07
  that means. But I don't know, you know,
• 25:10
  reaffirms the right of private individuals to transact Bitcoin
• 25:13
  freely. What does that sound to us
• 25:15
  Bitcoiners? It seems like they might be
• 25:18
  treating Bitcoin as money at this point.
• 25:20
  And maybe as we've been kind of hearing the rumors about new
• 25:24
  reevaluating the IRS policies around Bitcoin and stuff, I
• 25:28
  would love for that to mean eliminating capital gains on
• 25:31
  your Bitcoin and just treating it as money.
• 25:33
  I've been saying for a long time, we should be treating the
• 25:35
  Bitcoin price as essentially the Fiat exchange rate.
• 25:38
  So it's going to be very interesting once we actually get
• 25:41
  the whole bill, like, you know, in, in whatever the proposal is
• 25:45
  and we can read through it and see what it actually means.
• 25:47
  But I thought that was a very interesting wrinkle in this new
• 25:51
  reintroduction of the Bitcoin act.
• 25:53
  Now I did ask to chat, do you think you're going to see the
• 25:56
  the Bitcoin Act pass in 2025? Seventy, 7% of you guys are
• 26:00
  bullish that it will happen. So I guess maybe we're all
• 26:03
  getting caught up in the frenzy of it's our time.
• 26:06
  Now this time is different. They are going to make it happen
• 26:09
  buying a 1,000,000 Bitcoin by 2029.
• 26:12
  So we'll see what happens. 100% David.
• 26:16
  Yeah, you know, I I know everyone wants to get caught up
• 26:19
  in the frenzy and the moon juice and no.
• 26:22
  No, no, hit it, bro. This is, this is a hard, this is
• 26:25
  a hardcore Bitcoin audience. So your take is extremely
• 26:28
  welcome and I'm really glad that you brought that up.
• 26:31
  Well, I think if the US government bought 1,000,000
• 26:35
  Bitcoin, not $1 million, but 1,000,000 Bitcoin, then they are
• 26:39
  signaling to the world that, hey, we are concerned about our
• 26:43
  debt problem. And you're, you're undermining
• 26:45
  the credibility of your promises, which is 10s of
• 26:48
  trillions of dollars of people that, that, that hold treasuries
• 26:51
  that now are feeling a little bit shaky about it.
• 26:54
  And while we think that holding Bitcoin will solve the debt
• 26:57
  problem, what if by signaling that the government says, Hey,
• 27:01
  I'm going to sell all like everybody says, I'm going to
• 27:05
  sell these treasuries. This is a horrible investment
• 27:07
  and that's going to skyrocket interest rates, which would
• 27:11
  actually perpetuate the the the debt problem and make it worse.
• 27:14
  So it's difficult to say that acquiring Bitcoin and the
• 27:19
  expected increase in price would outrun the detrimental effect of
• 27:25
  of of, of, of adding increasing debt.
• 27:27
  So it puts the US government in a precarious position that if
• 27:31
  they start actively buying Bitcoin in size, that is a
• 27:36
  blaring, you know, alarm to, to, to, to to the rest of the world.
• 27:40
  So I'm gently skeptical that will happen on the capital gains
• 27:45
  as well. No, no, no, no chance, No, no
• 27:51
  chance they remove capital gains.
• 27:52
  But even if they did, while they would be awesome, the reason why
• 27:58
  you want to remove capital gains is because people are sitting on
• 28:01
  big gains. And they say, well, you know,
• 28:02
  it'd be nice if I could sell some of this Bitcoin and not
• 28:05
  have to pay this absurd, you know, capital gains.
• 28:08
  But imagine the people that are holding not thousands, 10s of
• 28:13
  thousands, maybe even like hundreds of thousands of
• 28:15
  Bitcoin. They're saying I'm going to
• 28:17
  actually take some, some some money off the table.
• 28:19
  And I think this benefit of having no capital gains tax,
• 28:22
  which I doubt will happen, But even if it does, that would
• 28:25
  result in significant cell pressure.
• 28:27
  So people probably need a little bit of a reality check on, on,
• 28:30
  on, on that one as well. I love it.
• 28:32
  Cheap SAT sounds great. I would love it.
• 28:36
  I would love it for sure. I'm down with it.
• 28:37
  But you know. Bitcoiners are the only people
• 28:41
  that celebrate potentially being able to stack cheaper stats,
• 28:45
  which is, you know, it tells you everything you need to know
• 28:47
  about how we feel about the previous system.
• 28:50
  Anyways, I do want to give a shout out to the stream.
• 28:53
  Shout out to the YouTube audience shout out to the rumble
• 28:56
  audience, which is absolutely popping today, 284 people in the
• 29:01
  rumble live stream, 629 people on YouTube and of course the X
• 29:07
  audience, 1378 people watching us live on X.
• 29:11
  If you guys are enjoying the stream so far, whether on
• 29:14
  YouTube, whether on X, whether on rumble or you're which you're
• 29:18
  watching or you're listening to it later on on your favorite
• 29:22
  podcasting platform, make sure to smash that like button share
• 29:26
  the content, get the orange signal out there.
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• 29:32
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  price. Is. 81,910 block height 887,497
• 34:03
  sats per dollar 1221 market cap 1.62 trillion Bitcoin verse gold
• 34:10
  Market cap 7.88% Percentage issue 94.45% decline from all
• 34:19
  time high -25% realized monetary inflation .93% The grand scheme
• 34:26
  of things. We are just getting the party
• 34:29
  started. Here is a clip from legacy media
• 34:35
  shout out to TFTC for reposting. It says Michael Saylor suggests
• 34:39
  the US should sell all of its gold for 5 million Bitcoin again
• 34:43
  moving the Overton window. I I keep saying this like you
• 34:46
  guys have to understand this like our job as bitcoiners just
• 34:48
  to move the Overton window. So the idea of self custody
• 34:51
  isn't radical. So the idea of Bitcoin isn't
• 34:53
  radical. So the idea of of, you know,
• 34:55
  individuals holding custody of their wealth isn't radical.
• 34:58
  We got to keep moving that Overton window.
• 35:00
  The way that we do that is by saying shit like this on TV by
• 35:04
  Trump basically saying, look, we're going to audit the Federal
• 35:06
  Reserve by Elon Musk posting that Keynes was a great evil.
• 35:11
  And I'm talking I'm referring to the economist, right?
• 35:13
  And so like, this is what I'm talking about, right?
• 35:15
  This is what I'm talking about. We have to move the Overton
• 35:17
  window here. Of course, sailor being
• 35:20
  extremely bullish. And I mean, like, again, guys,
• 35:23
  like if I would have told you to two or three years ago, where
• 35:26
  would be today? The fact that from the White
• 35:28
  House X account, they're basically saying like, look, you
• 35:31
  know, the US is going to be the Bitcoin capital of the world.
• 35:34
  You would not have believed me back in 2020.
• 35:36
  If I would have told you that a country was going to make
• 35:38
  Bitcoin legal tender in 2021, you would not have believed me.
• 35:41
  So in Bitcoin terms, things happen a lot faster than people
• 35:47
  anticipate. And all you have to do is pay
• 35:50
  attention to your surroundings, pay attention to what just
• 35:53
  happened. I mean that you know, that
• 35:58
  meaning that Senator Lummis, that summit, that that happened
• 36:01
  yesterday was historic. What happened at the White House
• 36:06
  on literally just this last Friday was absolutely historic.
• 36:10
  Like, where do you think we're going to be 4 years from now?
• 36:12
  Do you think this trend is going to stop?
• 36:15
  No, the reason that we're here is because Bitcoin has better
• 36:19
  incentives. Once people, once you understand
• 36:22
  that, you realize that we're going to win because all they
• 36:26
  have is a money that is essentially it requires coercion
• 36:31
  in order to function, right? It really does.
• 36:33
  Like I don't think if people had a choice between better money
• 36:38
  and inferior money, I think most people would choose better
• 36:41
  money. And especially over the long
• 36:43
  term that becomes more and more apparent.
• 36:45
  Bitcoin is the superior asset. Anyways, I'm going to play you
• 36:47
  the guys this clip of Sailor talking about how the US should
• 36:51
  sell all of its gold for Bitcoin.
• 36:55
  I don't know what the purpose of a Bitcoin Central reserve is,
• 36:59
  and I haven't seen the details of why that's important.
• 37:03
  Bitcoin is emerging as the world's reserve capital network.
• 37:06
  People are realizing that Bitcoin is better than real
• 37:09
  estate, it's better than stocks. There's there's not a single
• 37:12
  company or real estate property that you would rather own for
• 37:15
  the long term than Bitcoin. So the very simple idea is buy
• 37:19
  20 or 25% of the Bitcoin network on behalf of the US government,
• 37:24
  catalyze the development of that world reserve capital network,
• 37:28
  and then let all the Chinese and the Russians and the foreigners
• 37:32
  sell all their other assets and buy Bitcoin, and then the money
• 37:35
  flows into the United States. If you want to put a great twist
• 37:38
  on it, dump your gold, sell all the US gold, buy Bitcoin.
• 37:42
  Then the trade is free because you could buy 5 million Bitcoin
• 37:46
  for the cost of the gold. You will demonetize the entire
• 37:50
  gold asset class, and our enemies hold gold in their
• 37:54
  banks, so their assets would go to zero, our assets would go to
• 37:58
  $100 trillion, and we would control the world's reserve
• 38:03
  capital network. I mean look also getting mixed
• 38:11
  signals too from the rumble and YouTube chat.
• 38:13
  Apparently we're having I I'm not seeing any issues on our
• 38:16
  side at all. Yeah, it's just on you, but I
• 38:19
  keep checking and it seems like we're good.
• 38:21
  Yeah, and I'm and we're watching the streams on our back end.
• 38:23
  It seems like some people are are good with it.
• 38:25
  Some people are just like, no, I have no idea.
• 38:28
  But it's not on our side for the first time.
• 38:30
  I mean, not first time, but usually it is on our side, but
• 38:34
  this time is not. But I will say is, you know,
• 38:37
  again, Trump, I mean Trump sailor with a master class
• 38:42
  response and really laying out, you know, the case.
• 38:45
  I'm going to pass it on to David because I know, David, that from
• 38:49
  your ideological Ben, man, you're just like, that doesn't
• 38:51
  matter. That doesn't matter, man.
• 38:52
  This is this is a revolution about the individuals.
• 38:54
  So what's your take, David, before we get to the news?
• 38:58
  Well, sailor's always good for some bangers.
• 38:59
  And I think that was a good example of 1.
• 39:02
  And I think, Nico, you kind of said it best where a lot of this
• 39:06
  is like, I'm sympathetic to the idea of shifting the Overton
• 39:09
  window, that it's important to kind of throw out these
• 39:12
  headlines and these metaphors and, and, and, you know, sell
• 39:16
  all of the gold and acquire 5 million BTC.
• 39:19
  You know, maybe that happens, probably it doesn't, but it kind
• 39:22
  of plants that seed in, in, in people's head about shifting the
• 39:26
  Overton window. And I'm I'm I'm very simple
• 39:28
  sympathetic to that. For me personally, I will always
• 39:31
  kind of from first principles go back to the censorship
• 39:34
  resistance, the decentralization, the self
• 39:37
  custody, the sovereignty. I would easily sacrifice all
• 39:41
  governments buying and sailor for that core revolution because
• 39:45
  without that, there's really no point of Bitcoin numbered up if
• 39:50
  you don't have that foundation. With that said, yeah, I I
• 39:56
  support sailor and some of these people going on and and, and
• 39:59
  saying some of these crazy numbers and and ways to buy
• 40:03
  Bitcoin a. 100% I completely agree with you.
• 40:07
  And again, the importance I see people, people make jokes about
• 40:11
  this or like every time Nico says Overton window take a shot.
• 40:14
  You know, I see that all the time in the chat like guys, you
• 40:17
  have to understand how important that is because again, like
• 40:21
  think about where we were five years or what, what do we want?
• 40:23
  Right? We want to fix the money, fix
• 40:25
  the world. In order to do that, you have to
• 40:27
  move the over to the window. Whether you make fun of me for
• 40:30
  saying it or whatever, like you have to do it.
• 40:31
  You don't have a choice. The way that we do that is with
• 40:34
  media. The way that we do that is by
• 40:35
  getting people to buy Bitcoin, putting in self custody,
• 40:38
  benefiting from number go up technology, moving the cultural
• 40:42
  needle towards worldwide Bitcoin adoption.
• 40:44
  That's really what it's about, right, Opti?
• 40:48
  I'm going to pass it on to you, my friend.
• 40:50
  What's your take on this? I mean, Sailor's just like he's
• 40:53
  like, look, gold is a shit coin. Sell it all, buy Bitcoin, you
• 40:58
  know, go from there. Do you think he's right or are
• 41:01
  you on the side of David where it's like, look, you know what?
• 41:03
  I would personally prefer, you know, Bitcoin not to be acquired
• 41:07
  by the US government. I know it might pump the price,
• 41:09
  but you know, I'd rather, you know, it might take slower, it
• 41:12
  might take a longer time to get for it to get to 1,000,000.
• 41:15
  But you know, I'd rather want Bitcoin in the hands of the
• 41:18
  individuals rather than in the hands of one of the most
• 41:21
  powerful governments on the face of the hand.
• 41:23
  By the way, I'm not the only one that believes this too.
• 41:26
  There's been other Bitcoiners as well that have written pieces
• 41:31
  recently about this. Opti, what's your take?
• 41:34
  Yeah, well, from an ideological perspective, of course, I'm, I'm
• 41:37
  in line with David here. I as much as I like the
• 41:40
  narrative around the US buying Bitcoin, I'm, I'm not here for,
• 41:45
  you know, continuation of the Fiat money machine or this Fiat
• 41:49
  war machine. And This is why I became a
• 41:51
  Bitcoin in the 1st place. Though I do like just saying
• 41:54
  crazy stuff on corporate press as well.
• 41:57
  And I love this idea of selling all the gold for for Bitcoin,
• 42:01
  though, I think, you know, like we were saying thing earlier
• 42:04
  about the cowboy games, like I think this might be the most
• 42:06
  unfeasible route here to get budget neutral ways to acquire
• 42:10
  Bitcoin. Like it personally, from my
• 42:12
  opinion, if they dump all the gold for Bitcoin or, you know,
• 42:15
  analog gold for digital gold, like that is the biggest
• 42:19
  capitulation we will ever see from any government around the
• 42:21
  world. So I don't think that's ever
• 42:23
  going to happen. And I someone actually posed a
• 42:25
  really good question in the chat here and where'd it go?
• 42:28
  And it says, playing devil's advocate, what if the world
• 42:31
  doesn't follow suit, but instead reverts back to the gold state
• 42:34
  standard? You know, we sell our gold, we
• 42:36
  go to Bitcoin, no one follows us.
• 42:38
  That's exactly what safety has been saying for a long time.
• 42:40
  Like the only thing that would really hamper Bitcoin adoption
• 42:43
  is if countries went back to the gold standard.
• 42:46
  But we all know they're addicted to Fiat money.
• 42:48
  So that's most likely never going to happen, though there
• 42:50
  has been some conversations about that actually happening.
• 42:53
  But I, I don't see, I don't see them selling all their gold to
• 42:57
  buy Bitcoin, though. You know, it would be a pretty
• 43:00
  glorious day for us Bitcoiners. You know, we'd be like, yes, we
• 43:03
  were right. We've been telling you for
• 43:04
  years, you should have listened a long time ago, but I I just
• 43:07
  don't see that playing out. But hey, I love Shayla going on
• 43:10
  Yahoo finance and being like, yeah, you want to know some
• 43:14
  budget neutral strategy? We should just sell all over
• 43:16
  gold and buy Bitcoin. And you guys know my stance.
• 43:18
  I want to demonetize gold as quickly as possible.
• 43:20
  I want a gaudy house covered in gold.
• 43:22
  You know, I I want I want my own Mar a Lago here.
• 43:24
  So I'm all for demonetizing gold in real time and everyone
• 43:29
  realizing that the utility of gold is better than actually
• 43:32
  using as as it as a like a money and a store of value.
• 43:35
  So hey, I'm all with that. That's right, ladies and
• 43:38
  gentlemen, you heard it here first.
• 43:39
  Opti is launching Mar Opti only 1,000,000 sats for one Opti
• 43:46
  logo, only 1,000,000 sats for a yearly membership Opti logo, and
• 43:52
  it's going to be all in gold. The entire thing is going to be
• 43:54
  made in gold. All the cushions for the chairs
• 43:57
  are going to be made of paper bills.
• 43:58
  Fiat and yeah, no. Bro, it's going to be silk and
• 44:03
  gold. Come on bro.
• 44:08
  Do you think Bitcoin is going to demonetize Silk?
• 44:11
  No silk is going to. Demonetize everything.
• 44:15
  It isn't monetized. OK Anyways, I do want to give a
• 44:18
  shout out to the new merch. By the way, this has been flying
• 44:21
  off the shelves. We should have totally bought
• 44:23
  more because we're about to sell out.
• 44:25
  Especially the hoodie guys, It seems like this is a fan
• 44:28
  favorite. It's extremely comfortable.
• 44:30
  Guys. This isn't drop ship.
• 44:32
  We buy the inventory beforehand, we will literally send you it in
• 44:37
  custom simply Bitcoin packaging and we pay attention to the
• 44:40
  details. Every shirt says Bitcoin or
• 44:42
  slavery on the inside. You know it's very, very high,
• 44:46
  very high quality material. Check out the different sats
• 44:49
  look. I mean we already have a hat
• 44:51
  that's sold out. So yeah, get yours while
• 44:54
  supplies. I didn't.
• 44:55
  Even get one. Get yours while supplies last
• 44:59
  because it is running out and if you guys want to support the
• 45:01
  channel, this is one of the best ways right?
• 45:04
  So check out the new simply Bitcoin Reborn collection.
• 45:08
  All right everybody, we're heading to the news.
• 45:10
  We have tons to talk about today.
• 45:12
  We will be right back. I want to give a shout out to
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  Check out leaden dot IO today. All right, ladies and gentlemen,
• 47:48
  smash that like button if you guys are enjoying today's show,
• 47:51
  really, really helps with the algos.
• 47:53
  Want to give a shout out to the audience.
• 47:55
  We got 2300 people watching live across YouTube and X and of
• 48:00
  course we got about 320 people watching live on Rumble Smash
• 48:06
  that like button guys really, really helps with the algos and
• 48:10
  to push this content forward. Anyways, major announcement
• 48:14
  Speaking of Rumble, Rumble announces purchases of $17.1
• 48:20
  million in Bitcoin in accordance with previously announced
• 48:24
  bitcoins treasury strategy. So quick refresher couple months
• 48:28
  ago. Rumble has announced that, hey,
• 48:30
  you know what guys, we might, we might buy Bitcoin as a, you
• 48:34
  know, as a strategy. And you know this, they're
• 48:37
  following up and they're saying, you know what?
• 48:38
  They, they are buying Bitcoin. In fact, they bought $17.1
• 48:42
  million worth of Bitcoin. Here's the official announcement
• 48:47
  and some some quotes from the CEO.
• 48:50
  We're excited to announce these purchases and allocation of
• 48:53
  Bitcoin as part of our treasury strategy as well as a larger
• 48:57
  strategic move as as further as we further expand our ties to
• 49:01
  the crypto industry. These holdings have the
• 49:04
  potential to serve as a valuable hedge against inflation and will
• 49:08
  not be subject to dilution like so many over printed government
• 49:12
  issued currencies, goes on to say Rumble Chairman and CEO
• 49:17
  Chris Poblowski. As a leading video and cloud
• 49:20
  services platform for the crypto community, we are proud to
• 49:24
  officially hold Bitcoin as we continue to grow and ingrain
• 49:28
  crypto into our company's DNA. And of course, this message is
• 49:33
  coming after a major announcement that Tether was
• 49:38
  going to be making a major investment or better said they
• 49:41
  made a major investment into this incredibly awesome
• 49:46
  alternative video platform that here it's simply Bitcoin.
• 49:49
  We're huge fans of Rumble when we got the platformed and we're
• 49:55
  super thankful for for team YouTube for reinstating us.
• 49:57
  But when we got the platform for a short period of time, we were
• 50:01
  streaming exclusively to Rumble and man, just seeing how our
• 50:05
  audience just it was, it was incredible.
• 50:07
  It was it was great to see. So love Rumble as a platform.
• 50:11
  Big fan, big fan of YouTube as well, of course, and you know,
• 50:14
  just big fan of all the platforms we're allowed to post
• 50:16
  on and we're trying to continue to post on Noster man, but ZAP
• 50:20
  dot stream is giving us a hard time.
• 50:22
  So if you guys are, you know, Noster experts and you guys want
• 50:25
  to let us know how we can get the Noster stream back up and
• 50:29
  running again, please let us know.
• 50:32
  Send us Adm on X and you know, we'll, we'll figure it out.
• 50:36
  Anyways, I do want to get David's thoughts on this.
• 50:39
  It seems like another publicly traded company is adopting a
• 50:43
  Bitcoin strategy. I feel like any, anything, any
• 50:46
  individual, any entity, any country that adopts a Bitcoin
• 50:49
  standard versus people that are still in the Fiat standard, you
• 50:52
  have a major competitive advantage.
• 50:55
  David, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I love seeing private
• 50:58
  companies. Is it?
• 51:00
  I think, I believe Rumble is public, by the way.
• 51:02
  Oh, OK, public, but but regardless, like not like a
• 51:06
  direct, you know, government entity.
• 51:09
  I think it's a a great strategy. It is interesting that Tether is
• 51:14
  just, you know, Godzilla and they're making sickening amounts
• 51:17
  of of money and they wrote a big check to Rumble and then Rumble
• 51:22
  is taking a large percentage of that and investing in Bitcoin.
• 51:24
  So in some ways I see this almost as a distribution
• 51:27
  strategy for Tether to, you know, take a lot of its its
• 51:32
  treasury revenue and acquire Bitcoin.
• 51:36
  I have mixed feelings on that because Tether is a great
• 51:39
  company and I really like Paulo and they're very, you know,
• 51:42
  oriented to Bitcoin. But you know, all these stable
• 51:44
  coins indirectly perpetuate, even directly like perpetuate
• 51:48
  the, you know, the debt crisis are kind of antithetical to, to
• 51:52
  the, the whole mission. But you know, if they're going
• 51:55
  to exist, it's, it's pretty dope that they're funding these
• 51:58
  Bitcoin aligned companies and probably gently pushing them to,
• 52:02
  to, to buy Bitcoin. So overall, very, very cool.
• 52:07
  And I am optimistic that we'll see a lot more of it.
• 52:11
  Absolutely 100% opti. What's your take on this my
• 52:14
  friend? Yeah, well, that last part
• 52:17
  couldn't agree more with David. You know, Tether, it's literally
• 52:20
  the most profitable company in the world right now.
• 52:23
  And I'm glad that they're Bitcoiners.
• 52:25
  You guys know I'm not the biggest fan of stablecoins.
• 52:27
  I'm a bitcoiner. Bitcoin is my stablecoin as far
• 52:29
  as I'm concerned. But I do love to see Rumble buy
• 52:33
  a smash, buy a bunch of Bitcoin. Obviously, we love Rumble.
• 52:37
  We love what they're doing. I'm really waiting for them to
• 52:40
  also implement like the Bitcoin super chats over there because
• 52:44
  that's going to be a game changer, I think for content and
• 52:46
  creators. And you know, we we heard this
• 52:48
  announcement, I forget when it was, it's like about a month or
• 52:50
  two ago when they announced that they're going to be buying a
• 52:54
  bunch of Bitcoin. We know Chris Poblowski is a
• 52:57
  Bitcoiner. So you just love to see that bit
• 53:00
  corners are doing cool stuff and they're building really cool
• 53:03
  products. And of course, now that they
• 53:05
  have the tether backing, it's like Rumble has a lot of room to
• 53:09
  grow. And I know it's maybe a long,
• 53:13
  you know, a long shot for them to kind of dethrone YouTube, but
• 53:16
  I think they're doing a pretty good job.
• 53:18
  And if they they do implement that Bitcoin super chats in
• 53:21
  there, I know they're rolling out like a Bitcoin wallet, like
• 53:23
  a rumble wallet as well. I think it there there's some
• 53:26
  pretty good incentives for content creators to go over
• 53:29
  there and start using it more, you know like more legitly and
• 53:32
  then that that is their main distribution platform over
• 53:37
  there. So it's going to be very
• 53:38
  interesting to see this play out.
• 53:39
  I would love to see more people because you know, obviously you
• 53:43
  go where the people are and I would love to see more people
• 53:45
  use rumble. I still think that some people
• 53:47
  don't even know what Rumble is, but you know, as a Bitcoiner, I
• 53:50
  guess we're just on the front lines of a lot of different
• 53:52
  social media stuff, whether it's Noster Rumble, of course, using
• 53:56
  the legacy media, social media platforms.
• 53:59
  But I think this is an epic move.
• 54:01
  And it's going to be really interesting to see what other
• 54:03
  companies follow soon because as it's becoming very clear, if you
• 54:07
  don't have a Bitcoin strategy, you're being left in the dust
• 54:10
  here. And so Rumble, I think is making
• 54:11
  a huge move here. It's going to be interesting to
• 54:13
  see if they continue to buy more or rather how much more they
• 54:16
  will buy. So hey, I love this move.
• 54:19
  Rumble is kind of kicking ass A. 100 percent, 100% their their
• 54:23
  their fault. I mean, again, this is going to
• 54:26
  look like a genius move four years from now, you know, from
• 54:30
  that companies perspective, again, they're publicly traded.
• 54:33
  So, you know, anyone who's buying that stock is is going to
• 54:36
  be benefiting from number go up and rumbles treasury and I
• 54:40
  suspect and we all dip our toes initially when it comes to
• 54:44
  Bitcoin, but you know, sooner rather than later you end up
• 54:47
  being much you end up having a much bigger exposure than your
• 54:52
  initial kind of purchase and whatnot.
• 54:54
  Anyhow, I do want to move on to this Reuters article.
• 54:57
  EU worries US embrace of crypto assets could impact Europe
• 55:02
  financial stability. Now, this is where I'm going to
• 55:05
  play into what David is talking about.
• 55:08
  Do they mean the stability of politicians or do they mean the
• 55:12
  stability of people? Because you know, I've seen this
• 55:15
  story happen, play out many, many times over where in the
• 55:20
  developing worlds where a lot of these countries do not have
• 55:24
  stable currencies at all, people adopt Bitcoin and all of a
• 55:29
  sudden they find out they're an Oasis in the in, in the middle
• 55:33
  of chaos, in the middle of, of Fiat chaos, right?
• 55:36
  So again, like it, it's, this is some central banker projection
• 55:41
  in my opinion, right? And there it's interesting too,
• 55:45
  because I've seen them use the word sovereignty many times.
• 55:48
  Like Bitcoin is a threat to European sovereignty.
• 55:52
  Like what do they mean by that? Like, and another thing that
• 55:54
  I've seen them say as well is like Bitcoin is private money
• 55:58
  and Fiat money is public money. OK, right.
• 56:02
  You can use that argument, But if anyone could audit Bitcoin,
• 56:07
  anyone could mine Bitcoin. You can't audit the central
• 56:11
  banks and you can't make more money because that's
• 56:13
  counterfeit, right? It's counterfeiting.
• 56:15
  So I mean, what sounds more public and what sounds more
• 56:18
  private to you? I'll, I'll, I'll leave it up to
• 56:20
  you guys, right? For me, it's it's very easy
• 56:23
  anyways, EU worries US embrace of crypto assets could impact
• 56:27
  Europe financial stability. I mean, Opti, I think you were
• 56:29
  talking about this. You're like, what happens if the
• 56:31
  US adopts Bitcoin and every country's like, you know what
• 56:33
  I'm not going to do? It seems like the EU is
• 56:35
  basically like we're going to do it for now.
• 56:37
  But what I'll say is like, look, if you don't want to adopt
• 56:39
  Bitcoin, we, we saw what happened with Peter Schiff,
• 56:41
  like, it's not pretty, right? Goes on to say.
• 56:45
  Eurozone finance ministers are worried that the change of
• 56:48
  policy under the new US administration to embrace crypto
• 56:53
  currencies could affect eurozone monetary sovereignty and
• 56:57
  financial stability. Last week, U.S.
• 56:59
  President Donald Trump, who vowed to be a crypto president
• 57:03
  in his campaign, signed an executive order to establish a
• 57:06
  strategic reserve of crypto currencies by using tokens
• 57:10
  already owned by the government in a policy pivot from the
• 57:14
  previous administration. Policy developments and other
• 57:17
  jurisdictions can have important consequences for us here in
• 57:21
  Europe. These discussions are
• 57:23
  fundamentally linked to our own autonomy and and to the
• 57:27
  resilience of our currency. Look, I'll say this, OK, That
• 57:33
  wouldn't be a problem if they had a superior currency, right?
• 57:38
  And this is what I'm saying, like Fiat currencies require
• 57:40
  coercion because they're not incentive driven.
• 57:45
  And you're seeing like you're seeing the the, you know, the
• 57:48
  tyrannical nature kind of, you know, the Freudian slip slipping
• 57:52
  out of this article. It's like these discussions are
• 57:54
  fundamentally linked to our own autonomy.
• 57:55
  No, no autonomy of who? The autonomy to the own people.
• 58:00
  If you're in Europe, you could buy Bitcoin, you can become
• 58:02
  autonomous, right? And to the resilience of our
• 58:06
  currency, right? I don't, I don't see Fiat as, as
• 58:10
  my currency. I see it as a currency that is
• 58:14
  essentially being bestowed upon me by the state.
• 58:20
  That's it. That's the way I see it.
• 58:22
  And you could say our, but I mean, like then I think that's
• 58:25
  how they justify the theft. That's how they justify
• 58:27
  inflation just by saying, oh, it's our autonomy, It's our
• 58:30
  currency. No, I, I, I really believe that
• 58:32
  Fiat currency is the currency of politicians.
• 58:36
  I do not believe it's the currency of the people.
• 58:39
  I believe Bitcoin is the currency of the people and you
• 58:43
  know, it's as simple as that. Like anyone can mine Bitcoin,
• 58:46
  anyone could audit it. You know, everyone is equal in
• 58:50
  the eyes of the Bitcoin network. It doesn't matter whether you
• 58:52
  have half a million Bitcoin like Sailor or whether you're a pleb
• 58:56
  that has .01 Bitcoin you don't have.
• 58:59
  Sailor doesn't have more influence over the network than
• 59:01
  the pleb, right? It's a literally a level playing
• 59:04
  field. That's what makes Bitcoin
• 59:05
  beautiful. And I would say that's what
• 59:08
  makes it the people's money. The fact that you can audit it,
• 59:11
  That's what makes it public. So, you know, all these excuses
• 59:15
  and word jargon and legalese, like, you know, if you know
• 59:18
  what's going on, it's, it's bullshit, right?
• 59:20
  They're, they're just scared that they're losing the power of
• 59:22
  the money printer. It just comes down to that.
• 59:24
  It's really simple. Anyways, David, am I reading
• 59:27
  into this, You know, way too hard or, you know, what's your
• 59:31
  interpretation of that article specifically what they're
• 59:34
  saying? Like it?
• 59:35
  It feels like projection bro. Yeah, I mean, no lies detected.
• 59:40
  The article says that the European Union is concerned
• 59:44
  about Bitcoin. And I'm like that, that, that
• 59:47
  that checks out for me. You know, they have decades of
• 59:50
  really horrible policy making that are catching up to them.
• 59:54
  We all know that the entire world is going going through a
• 59:56
  global sovereign debt crisis. I think all Fiat currencies will
• 1:00:00
  fail in the end, but I think the last domino to fall is is the
• 1:00:06
  dollar, which means that the EU. And these European currencies
• 1:00:10
  will fall before them. And I think they feel the
• 1:00:13
  pressure of Bitcoin knocking on the door and realize, damn, when
• 1:00:16
  some of these dominoes do fall, they're not necessarily going to
• 1:00:19
  be the last ones. But, you know, maybe they're
• 1:00:21
  going to be ones that hit before the dollar fails.
• 1:00:26
  And that fear is perpetually creeping in on them.
• 1:00:31
  So I think the article is totally accurate.
• 1:00:34
  A. 100%, 100% Opti. What's your take on the article?
• 1:00:39
  What are you doing to Chrissy man?
• 1:00:41
  Why is she so vengeful? Well, I mean, I'm going to try
• 1:00:46
  not to be too harsh on Europe, but you know, Europe is
• 1:00:49
  absolutely wrecked and I would not want to be there.
• 1:00:52
  And they have their own problems.
• 1:00:54
  And to really deep think about Bitcoin or what America is doing
• 1:00:57
  with Bitcoin. And you know, I've said it
• 1:00:59
  before, like I'm glad that I don't have to listen to anything
• 1:01:03
  coming out of Europe for the last 250 years.
• 1:01:05
  This is the this is the girl response here.
• 1:01:07
  But I did see this yesterday, which is very, very interesting.
• 1:01:13
  Let me pull this up. Okay, so we have this tweet from
• 1:01:16
  Ursula von Derland, who's of course president of the EU
• 1:01:19
  Commission and and she dropped this little tweet and it does
• 1:01:24
  remind me of some narrative and memes and some memetic power we
• 1:01:29
  heard come out of the World Economic Forum.
• 1:01:31
  But let me just read it for you. You know, Europe has all it
• 1:01:33
  needs to take the lead in the competitiveness race.
• 1:01:36
  This month the EU Commission will unveil the savings and
• 1:01:39
  investment you and where where this is the this is the kicker
• 1:01:42
  here, where we'll turn the private savings into much needed
• 1:01:45
  investments. That's.
• 1:01:47
  Fucking crazy. We'll.
• 1:01:48
  Work with our institutional partners to get it off the
• 1:01:51
  ground. Kind of reminds me of the you'll
• 1:01:54
  owe nothing and be poor and. Have fun.
• 1:01:56
  What does that mean? We'll use private.
• 1:01:59
  Like it's so crazy that they feel entitled it sounds.
• 1:02:04
  Like they are doing the best marketing for Bitcoin possible.
• 1:02:08
  Wouldn't want to have any money in a European bank at this
• 1:02:11
  point, considering that they're going to take your savings so
• 1:02:14
  that the state can invest with it.
• 1:02:15
  Like, I don't know, I think they are the best marketers of
• 1:02:19
  Bitcoin. So yeah, if they're terrified of
• 1:02:21
  Bitcoin, and we know why, it's 'cause they want to steal your
• 1:02:23
  money. So as quickly as possible, take
• 1:02:27
  your wealth and put it into Bitcoin.
• 1:02:28
  It's it's absolutely nuts. 100% someone in the chat in the in
• 1:02:32
  the in the YouTube chat says Bitcoin bull says I got to blame
• 1:02:35
  Opti for this one. 100% All of Europe's stance towards Bitcoin
• 1:02:40
  is 100% Opti's fault because Opti broke Christine Lagarde's
• 1:02:45
  heart and she has never forgot it.
• 1:02:48
  So blame Opti optigate 3 point O and I do want to go over one of
• 1:02:54
  these polls. So we asked you guys earlier on
• 1:02:58
  if you guys believed that the that the Bitcoin Act was going
• 1:03:03
  to pass the vast 382 people voted, 76% of you guys said yes,
• 1:03:12
  23% of you guys said no. So Chad is feeling very
• 1:03:15
  optimistic about the Bitcoin Act currently going to end the
• 1:03:18
  current poll. It's a hopium poll which says
• 1:03:21
  what is the end of year price of Bitcoin?
• 1:03:24
  42% of you guys believe it's going to be between 250 and 300
• 1:03:29
  K 35% of you guys believe it's going to be between 100 and 150
• 1:03:33
  K 15% of you guys believe it's going to be 1,000,009% believe
• 1:03:39
  it's going to be between 500 and 750K.
• 1:03:42
  Going to end that poll right there.
• 1:03:43
  Anyways, guys, stay tuned because we're get to the culture
• 1:03:47
  segment and we're be talking to our guests for today, David
• 1:03:51
  Siri. Find out what he's working on,
• 1:03:54
  what he's contributing to Bitcoin, the Bitcoin community
• 1:03:56
  and just talk Bitcoin with David, which is going to be
• 1:03:59
  awesome. So if you guys are enjoying the
• 1:04:01
  show so far, there's 2466 of you guys what four 2471 of you guys
• 1:04:06
  watching live between YouTube and X and roughly 350 of you
• 1:04:12
  guys watching live on Rumble. Make sure to smash that like
• 1:04:16
  button. All right, everybody, we are
• 1:04:18
  going to hit the culture segment.
• 1:04:20
  We will be right back. I want to give a shout out to
• 1:04:23
  our partner Hive Digital Technologies.
• 1:04:27
  As the first ever public miner Hives position to quadruple
• 1:04:32
  their global footprint in 2025 and as the first with an AI
• 1:04:37
  strategy, Hive continues to make moves in sustainable high
• 1:04:42
  performance computing. They consistently topped the
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  industry in Bitcoin mine per EXA hash and now they're
• 1:04:49
  headquartered in the USA. They're leaning me, they're
• 1:04:53
  green and clean, and they're changing the game.
• 1:04:56
  You can catch the latest buzz by following them at Hive Digital
• 1:05:00
  Tech or check out their website at hivedigitaltech.com.
• 1:05:15
  I want to give a shout out to our partner coin kite.
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  Today and use promo code simply to get 5% off anything on the
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  store. All right, everybody, we are
• 1:06:25
  back. We're back to the culture
• 1:06:27
  segment. Smash that like button.
• 1:06:28
  If you guys are enjoying simply Bitcoin live Opti, I'm going to
• 1:06:32
  pass it on to you, my friend. What are we going to talk to
• 1:06:35
  David about today? Yeah.
• 1:06:37
  So guys. Actually, first David, who are
• 1:06:39
  you bro? Who are you?
• 1:06:41
  What do you do? Yeah, sure.
• 1:06:44
  I work for a company called Alpinlabs.
• 1:06:46
  We're building ZK roll ups on Bitcoin, which is an alternative
• 1:06:50
  layer 2 scaling solution to something like Lightning.
• 1:06:54
  I guess I technically lead ecosystem there, but really I
• 1:06:56
  just spend most of my days doing scrolling Bitcoin Twitter.
• 1:06:59
  Just like. Everyone else just like
• 1:07:01
  everybody else. All right, so I was going to
• 1:07:04
  say, guys, this might get a little technical here because we
• 1:07:07
  are going to be talking about scaling Bitcoin, but I think
• 1:07:10
  it's a conversation that you guys need to be exposed to.
• 1:07:12
  So David, first and foremost, let's just kind of start from
• 1:07:16
  the beginning. Does Bitcoin need to change to
• 1:07:19
  scale to 8 billion people? If you want to scale to 8
• 1:07:24
  billion people definitively with 100% uncertainty, if you want to
• 1:07:27
  do this without custodians, you have to add some sort of
• 1:07:31
  functionality to, to, to Bitcoin.
• 1:07:34
  Even in the Lightning Network white paper, I'm assuming most
• 1:07:38
  of the audience will be familiar with lighting network.
• 1:07:39
  They say if we wanted to scale to the world, we need to
• 1:07:42
  increase the block size to like, you know, like 200 fold of of
• 1:07:46
  what it is currently. So there's really not been any,
• 1:07:49
  you know, magical silver bullet. With that said, I was talking to
• 1:07:54
  someone like Lynn Alden just a couple weeks ago.
• 1:07:56
  And I I'm aligned with her that while we do want to scale
• 1:08:00
  Bitcoin and we do want to add functionality to Bitcoin, we
• 1:08:03
  don't want to do it at the cost of sacrificing the simple, just
• 1:08:08
  store value. Because as as simple as that is
• 1:08:11
  like that, that that really is the key product market fit.
• 1:08:14
  Like that's the core revolution is it is just having something
• 1:08:17
  that can be a life raft to get you away from the Fiat monetary
• 1:08:21
  debasement. So it's, it's, it's an
• 1:08:23
  interesting conversation to say, to have to say yes, like we do
• 1:08:27
  need to make some sort of change or some sort of breakthrough to
• 1:08:29
  Bitcoin, but we're not willing to make a change that will
• 1:08:32
  sacrifice the, the, the, the core revolution.
• 1:08:36
  Got it. Yeah.
• 1:08:36
  And that's obviously a fundamental shift from a lot of
• 1:08:40
  the people that have forked off from Bitcoin.
• 1:08:42
  But before we get into what they're working.
• 1:08:45
  On Optic, can I interject and ask some questions?
• 1:08:48
  There's some very interesting things there.
• 1:08:49
  So OK, so the, the OK, so you said essentially you, you wanted
• 1:08:55
  to like it'd be very difficult to change the, the current rules
• 1:09:04
  of Bitcoin because if you did essentially wouldn't be sound
• 1:09:08
  money anymore. Like do you mean because
• 1:09:10
  essentially like for anyone who doesn't know, like if if you
• 1:09:13
  increase the block size races, it raises the bar for resource
• 1:09:20
  requirements in order to run a node.
• 1:09:22
  If the resource requirements are higher, less and less people are
• 1:09:26
  going to run nodes and you might have an Etherium 2 point O
• 1:09:29
  situation where the vast majority of nodes are actually
• 1:09:31
  run on servers, specifically ADADADUAWS servers.
• 1:09:36
  Like if you want to know who's running Etherium, just look at
• 1:09:38
  Jeff Bezos. Like I know I know it's not 100%
• 1:09:41
  true and whatever, but technically it is right?
• 1:09:45
  And we obviously don't want that to happen with Bitcoin, which is
• 1:09:48
  why the block size is what it is.
• 1:09:52
  Yeah, I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head there.
• 1:09:54
  The easy way out is just say, increase the block size limit or
• 1:09:58
  add some sort of EVM, you know, or some sort of programmability
• 1:10:02
  to, to the Bitcoin layer one. But as you were alluding to,
• 1:10:06
  that's a very, it's a shortcut and it's a slippery slope and it
• 1:10:11
  risks undermining the credibility of the, the entire
• 1:10:14
  network. So in this scaling conversation
• 1:10:18
  that that's that's really kind of been at the heart of of a lot
• 1:10:22
  of the, the entire Bitcoin movement really.
• 1:10:26
  Yeah, and I have a question for you, David.
• 1:10:28
  So like, I personally, I'm a big fan of lightning right now.
• 1:10:32
  I think lightning is, is great. However, maybe this is unpopular
• 1:10:35
  with me, unpopular with you, and perhaps you'll leave the, the,
• 1:10:39
  the live stream. But I, you know, I'm, I, I use
• 1:10:43
  Wallace Satoshi. I use the primal app like, you
• 1:10:46
  know, as my daily driver for lightning transactions.
• 1:10:49
  I understand that it's custodial, but I just like dude,
• 1:10:52
  like it's just seamless. It's just great, you know, for,
• 1:10:55
  for kind of, you know, again, would I leave more than $1000
• 1:10:58
  worth of Bitcoin on either of those wallets?
• 1:11:01
  Probably not or maybe I would, but not for, you know, or not
• 1:11:06
  for an extended period of time. But for like money just on a, on
• 1:11:10
  a wallet that I can just use, they're pretty, pretty
• 1:11:13
  convenient. Like are you suggesting that
• 1:11:16
  like essentially it it like how do we make lightning custodial?
• 1:11:21
  I mean non custodial? Because lightning non custodial
• 1:11:24
  is like, dude, it's like it's a, it's a nightmare, man.
• 1:11:27
  I'll be honest with you. Like balancing the channel like
• 1:11:30
  it's like the the the technical requirements that you need, like
• 1:11:34
  the technical know how that you need in order to do it is it's
• 1:11:37
  not easier. Bro.
• 1:11:40
  Yeah, I mean, I don't want to, you know, be a wet blanket here.
• 1:11:43
  Like I love Lightning. I, I respect a lot of the team
• 1:11:45
  there, like Elizabeth and Gentry and, and I mean tons of people,
• 1:11:50
  a lot of like all working on Lightning.
• 1:11:53
  But you kind of said it yourself, you're like, oh, I
• 1:11:55
  really love lightning by the way.
• 1:11:56
  It's custodial. It's like, well then why the
• 1:11:57
  hell do we have Lightning? You know, like like.
• 1:12:00
  If we're just going to use custodial services, what's
• 1:12:02
  what's the point? And you know, I was also
• 1:12:05
  recently, you know, we were talking with like, you know,
• 1:12:07
  David Marcus and the lights part team.
• 1:12:09
  And David Marcus is the former, you know, CEO of PayPal.
• 1:12:12
  And he did, he was working on the Libra project to, to build
• 1:12:15
  stablecoin. Like these are world class, you
• 1:12:17
  know, businessmen and engineers. And he is openly now saying that
• 1:12:22
  Lightning is incapable of, of scaling in the way that they
• 1:12:25
  want to provide the, the, the the UX to users in like a self
• 1:12:29
  custodial manner. That, that, that that's, you
• 1:12:32
  know, pretty brutal. Don't get me wrong, there's
• 1:12:33
  still very much a product market fit in a use case for lightning.
• 1:12:36
  But if you want this end consumer self custodial
• 1:12:38
  experience, like this is a pretty credible person who who,
• 1:12:41
  who's saying it's just not there.
• 1:12:43
  So people are, are saying, OK, maybe lightning will not work as
• 1:12:47
  this kind of like connectivity tissue rather than this end user
• 1:12:51
  experience. I'm not going to make a strong
• 1:12:54
  judgement call on that. But this, this is kind of like
• 1:12:57
  the, the, the reality on the ground.
• 1:13:00
  There's also, you know, let's assume that lightning was self
• 1:13:04
  custodial and it did have these like very cheap instant fast
• 1:13:07
  payments that that's amazing. But lightning doesn't have any
• 1:13:11
  sort of expressivity and programmability to it.
• 1:13:13
  And as much as we kind of rag on etherium and chip coins and
• 1:13:16
  there's no product market fit there, I I mostly agree with
• 1:13:19
  that, but there is some benefit to, to actually having
• 1:13:22
  programmability in the scaling solutions.
• 1:13:26
  You know, one of like a couple examples are things like, you
• 1:13:31
  know, there's a feature called account abstraction when you
• 1:13:33
  have programmability where there there's a hardware wallet inside
• 1:13:35
  of our phone. Most people don't know this.
• 1:13:36
  There's basically a Ledger, basically a treasure inside of
• 1:13:39
  there. And you could use your phone as
• 1:13:42
  a way to actually cold store your your coins and you can scan
• 1:13:44
  your face ID to be able to transact with them.
• 1:13:46
  But you need programmability in in in order to do that.
• 1:13:49
  And that's something that just lightning literally cannot do
• 1:13:53
  with without custody. So even the most ardent of
• 1:13:56
  Bitcoin Maxis have to kind of agree like, Hey, it'd be really
• 1:13:59
  nice if I could use my phone as a cold storage device.
• 1:14:02
  It'd be really nice if maybe the people that do want to use
• 1:14:04
  stablecoins can actually pay their transaction fees in, in
• 1:14:08
  stablecoins. It'd be really nice if we wanted
• 1:14:10
  to onboard a million people in Africa and we say, hey, we'll
• 1:14:13
  cover any of the onboarding your transaction costs.
• 1:14:15
  We'll cover the, the, the transaction fees for them.
• 1:14:18
  It'd be really nice if if instead of just doing push based
• 1:14:21
  payments where I push a payment to you because you sent me an
• 1:14:24
  invoice, that somebody could pull base payments where you can
• 1:14:28
  now do subscriptions. Like there's, there's such a
• 1:14:31
  wide swath of different functionality that we really
• 1:14:34
  need for for payments aside from just like, here's an invoice,
• 1:14:38
  you know, scan it. And I think people really
• 1:14:41
  underestimate that. It's not to say lightning can't
• 1:14:43
  work. It's just saying, you know, it'd
• 1:14:44
  be nice if we can just explore this other functionality,
• 1:14:48
  bringing it to Bitcoin. The last two use cases, I'll say
• 1:14:51
  is things like borrowing my most maxi maxi friends, even if they
• 1:14:55
  hate all other use cases, they still want to be able to borrow
• 1:14:58
  against their Bitcoin. And there are ways to to to to
• 1:15:01
  to build borrowing platforms where right now people can
• 1:15:04
  borrow against their Bitcoin and defy as much as people hate that
• 1:15:07
  at like 4 1/2 percent with like no set loan term up to like 85%
• 1:15:13
  loan to value. Like these things murder.
• 1:15:15
  They they annihilate the the solutions of, you know, my
• 1:15:19
  friends, the the the companies that they run the Levins and the
• 1:15:21
  huddle huddle's and you know, the peer-to-peer lending like
• 1:15:25
  there there's actual legit product market fit here and I
• 1:15:29
  would love to see that come to Bitcoin.
• 1:15:31
  The final thing I'll say is Bitcoin back stable coins.
• 1:15:33
  Bitcoin back stable coins go so fucking hard, you know, like we,
• 1:15:37
  we, we know stablecoins have product market fit begrudgingly,
• 1:15:39
  we'd love to have everyone on Bitcoin, but how cool would it
• 1:15:42
  be if if we could say, look, if you're not ready for for for
• 1:15:45
  Bitcoin, here's instead a Bitcoin back stablecoin,
• 1:15:47
  something that is censorship resistant, that can't be stolen
• 1:15:50
  from you, that can't be, you know, rugged from you that that
• 1:15:52
  that doesn't perpetuate this, this Fiat debt game.
• 1:15:55
  This is a way. Way.
• 1:15:56
  Cooler type of stablecoin and we're now at the point where
• 1:15:59
  some of these Bitcoin back stablecoins are legit like not
• 1:16:01
  like Terra Luna where these completely fake fugazi things,
• 1:16:05
  but they're they're hardcore. No hypothecation, no fractional
• 1:16:08
  reserve, no decentralized in name only like like you can, you
• 1:16:13
  can start building this stuff. So I know I I I went on a little
• 1:16:17
  bit of a rant there, but there's some cool shit outside of
• 1:16:19
  Lightning on the scaling front. Yeah, I mean, dude, that's so,
• 1:16:23
  so insightful, bro. Really appreciate it.
• 1:16:25
  What? And let's focus on what you're
• 1:16:28
  doing lately, because you're dedicating your life to this at
• 1:16:31
  the moment, correct? Yeah, pretty much.
• 1:16:36
  So several years ago there was a researcher named John Light.
• 1:16:40
  He actually received a grant from Alex Gladstein at the Human
• 1:16:42
  Rights Foundation and he wrote a research paper showing how we
• 1:16:45
  could build this concept called ZK roll ups on top of Bitcoin
• 1:16:50
  and AZK roll up. You can think of it as like a
• 1:16:52
  side chain, similar to something like Liquid, except it actually
• 1:16:57
  solves what's called the trustless two way pay, meaning
• 1:16:59
  that you can bridge BTC, the asset from the layer one into a
• 1:17:04
  more expressive layer 2 without the traditional trust
• 1:17:07
  assumptions, without a centralized federation.
• 1:17:11
  And in many ways like this was this was the the Holy Grail that
• 1:17:15
  we've talked about in Bitcoin for for over 10 years.
• 1:17:17
  This was the problem that that block stream and all these major
• 1:17:20
  Bitcoin companies we're always trying to solve, but we're never
• 1:17:22
  able to. And now the cryptography is
• 1:17:24
  actually caught up to a point where where we can credibly
• 1:17:27
  bring this stuff to Bitcoin. And I want to be clear, without
• 1:17:29
  any changes to Bitcoin whatsoever, would it be
• 1:17:32
  beneficial if we got changes to Bitcoin and covenants and maybe
• 1:17:36
  a software? Yes, but it's not needed and
• 1:17:38
  that's igniting a lot of excitement in Bitcoin.
• 1:17:40
  People say, great, maybe we can have our cake and eat it too
• 1:17:43
  here where we don't have to, you know, get in these holy wars
• 1:17:45
  about changing Bitcoin. But we can add a lot of this
• 1:17:49
  this this this functionality that is just a a different set
• 1:17:52
  of trade-offs for scaling than what Lightning offers.
• 1:17:55
  That's cool. A. 100% no, I 100% agree with
• 1:17:59
  you. And it's it's interesting, I've
• 1:18:02
  never heard of this. I've heard of liquid.
• 1:18:04
  So many people talk about liquid good things about liquid heard
• 1:18:08
  about obviously use lightning. I mean, not not in the correct
• 1:18:12
  way, right, custodial way, but big fan of big fan of custodial
• 1:18:18
  light. I'm just going to say it guys,
• 1:18:19
  Nico is a big fan of custodial lightning.
• 1:18:22
  The convenience is awesome, but I get it.
• 1:18:24
  It's not the the way that you should do it.
• 1:18:27
  So does this scale what you're referring to?
• 1:18:30
  Like does this scale number? That's question number one.
• 1:18:33
  And why is it more? I haven't heard about it, right?
• 1:18:36
  So like, why isn't this more popular?
• 1:18:37
  Why isn't this on more people's radar?
• 1:18:40
  Well, the last question first, it's a bit novel and it's a bit,
• 1:18:45
  you know, ZK is this kind of like magical cryptography tech
• 1:18:48
  that I think is very, very exciting for people deep in the
• 1:18:52
  trenches, but it hasn't yet made into the mainstream Bitcoin
• 1:18:55
  conscious yet. And even for someone like my
• 1:18:59
  myself who's a big fan of it, I think everybody is guilty until
• 1:19:02
  proven innocent. And it's kind of the onus is on
• 1:19:04
  us to ship the code, make it open source, allow people to use
• 1:19:08
  it, rather than you trusting me on this call and saying that
• 1:19:11
  this is going to be some God tier thing that, that, that
• 1:19:13
  that's going to, you know, save Bitcoin.
• 1:19:15
  Nobody's saying that I'm just kind of informing you what is
• 1:19:18
  potentially coming. And, you know, people can take
• 1:19:20
  it upon themselves to, to ask more questions or, or, or
• 1:19:22
  research it. In terms of does it scale?
• 1:19:26
  Well, there's, there's two things that that that I could
• 1:19:28
  add. 1 is the ZK roll ups can add programmability to Bitcoin,
• 1:19:34
  meaning you can you can actually get smarter contracts than than
• 1:19:39
  than than what Bitcoin has and it does that with near
• 1:19:43
  perfection. There essentially becomes no
• 1:19:44
  limitation to how you can use and program your Bitcoin on the
• 1:19:51
  actual scalability side of like how much additional throughput
• 1:19:54
  can you get with with the absolute lowest level of trust
• 1:19:58
  assumptions and like you know, very little added added trust.
• 1:20:04
  You can get probably between 30 to 50X scaling improvement over
• 1:20:08
  what Bitcoin current currently offers.
• 1:20:11
  And that again comes with all of the programming ability and and
• 1:20:14
  functionality things that that LED network doesn't offer.
• 1:20:17
  There are ways to to scale it way beyond 30 to 50X to a
• 1:20:21
  hundred 1010 thousand X, but you will have to take some amount of
• 1:20:26
  additional added trust assumption.
• 1:20:27
  And that's the main criticism that people mount against roll
• 1:20:30
  ups is it's not this this perfect kind of a silver bullet.
• 1:20:34
  I'm happy to like dive into that more, but that that's kind of
• 1:20:37
  the the the core trade-offs is it looks really, really great
• 1:20:39
  and almost an ideal solution up to that 30 to 50X scaling.
• 1:20:43
  If you want to go beyond that, then you're not taking on full
• 1:20:47
  custody like custodial risk, but you have some minor additional
• 1:20:51
  added trust assumptions and that's the legitimate criticism
• 1:20:53
  of it. Gotcha.
• 1:20:55
  Very, very interesting Opti. Yeah.
• 1:20:57
  I mean, I think, look, someone in the chat says, sorry, I can't
• 1:21:00
  understand this at all. So maybe could you break this
• 1:21:04
  down for the the left side of the bell curve Bitcoiners here?
• 1:21:09
  Yeah. I think we, we, we talked about
• 1:21:12
  liquid, which is a side chain. So you take your Bitcoin from
• 1:21:16
  layer 1, you essentially give it to a federation or a multi sig
• 1:21:21
  and then they represent that BTC as liquid or LBTC on the liquid
• 1:21:26
  side chain, which then allows you to have additional
• 1:21:31
  functionality with it. Maybe you can use it for
• 1:21:33
  privacy, maybe you can use it for faster payments, maybe you
• 1:21:36
  can use it for yes, again, these like smarter contracts and
• 1:21:41
  liquid. But that LBTC that, that, that
• 1:21:44
  you're holding that kind of derivative token which has been
• 1:21:48
  minted by by by the federation. You are trusting them that they
• 1:21:51
  will not steal the underlying Bitcoin from you.
• 1:21:54
  You are trusting them that they will not censor you over there.
• 1:21:57
  And so this is the key limitation of of, of, of
• 1:22:00
  something like liquid with these ZK roll ups, you can have a very
• 1:22:05
  similar set up, but you don't actually have to trust this this
• 1:22:08
  federation. You don't actually have to trust
• 1:22:10
  that if I give my Bitcoin to this federation and they mint
• 1:22:13
  these, these, these LBTC on the side chain that that they'll act
• 1:22:19
  like just out of the kindness of their heart.
• 1:22:23
  Allow me to redeem back to, to, to the Bitcoin layer 1.
• 1:22:25
  So maybe quite simply, it's like you have Bitcoin layer one over
• 1:22:28
  here, you want to bridge it into some sort of other ecosystem,
• 1:22:31
  but how do you have assurance that you'll actually be able to
• 1:22:33
  get back that you can reaccess your funds back onto the layer
• 1:22:36
  1? And that's the core innovation
• 1:22:38
  which wasn't really able to be solved for many years and now is
• 1:22:42
  able to be solved. Hopefully that is a more.
• 1:22:45
  Simple. Interesting.
• 1:22:46
  I do want to pivot here a little bit of conversation because we
• 1:22:49
  have been talking about nation state adoption and of course
• 1:22:51
  we're talking about scaling Bitcoin.
• 1:22:53
  Now from your perspective, you are trying to build, you know, a
• 1:22:57
  layer 2 something to scale Bitcoin.
• 1:22:59
  What's your thoughts on this kind of trope we've been
• 1:23:03
  hearing, or it's rather not not a trope, but this conversation
• 1:23:06
  and concern we've been hearing on Twitter about the fact that
• 1:23:08
  now Bitcoin is becoming more of a, you know, national strategic
• 1:23:13
  reserve, that it's going to be a lot harder to kind of implement
• 1:23:17
  new changes and scale Bitcoin moving forward because this is a
• 1:23:20
  national security issue now. So what's your thoughts on that
• 1:23:24
  moving forward? I think Bitcoin ossifying and
• 1:23:27
  not changing is a huge risk. And in some ways it's, it's
• 1:23:31
  death of the protocol. And I think you can go and watch
• 1:23:35
  a video that Jack Dorsey and David Marcus and Steve Lee and,
• 1:23:39
  and, and some of these people who opened up Presidio Bitcoin
• 1:23:42
  in San Francisco recently where they talk about this, that that
• 1:23:45
  ossification is a huge risk. And we should not be complacent
• 1:23:51
  with, with Bitcoin just being in the place that it is and it
• 1:23:53
  truly never changing for the next, you know, 100 years.
• 1:23:56
  That's a little bit disconnected from reality.
• 1:24:00
  And I, I do think that it's a risk that if too many of these
• 1:24:04
  governments or nation states get involved and they amass power,
• 1:24:08
  that it really is in, in their best interest to say, you know
• 1:24:11
  what? Like maybe we don't want to
• 1:24:13
  change Bitcoin because, because we don't want to introduce, you
• 1:24:18
  know, like the ability to have privacy on a layer 2 because
• 1:24:21
  governments hate its citizens having privacy.
• 1:24:23
  Or they say we don't want to introduce functionality that
• 1:24:26
  allows people to self custody because then the, their, their
• 1:24:30
  friends on Wall Street can actually be responsible for,
• 1:24:33
  for, for custody. And, and Larry Fink and
• 1:24:35
  BlackRock can, can custody all of their Bitcoin and they can
• 1:24:38
  earn fees and flow. I, I, I, I think these are very
• 1:24:42
  real concerns that we can't sleep on.
• 1:24:45
  And while I'm not advocating necessarily to be actively
• 1:24:48
  changing Bitcoin, I think that it's important to say, are there
• 1:24:52
  pragmatic changes that we can get consensus on and slowly but
• 1:24:57
  steadily improve Bitcoin? 100 I mean, it's oh man, the
• 1:25:03
  ossification camp versus the it's, it's this is very
• 1:25:07
  controversial in in Bitcoin, in Bitcoin land.
• 1:25:10
  I, I remember seeing a, a debate in Lugano, you know, between the
• 1:25:15
  two camps. Luckily, I don't have to opine
• 1:25:18
  because I we just, we just cover the news.
• 1:25:21
  But yeah, I mean it, it's I, I just see the trade-offs, man.
• 1:25:26
  Like there's there's trade-offs between the two.
• 1:25:29
  I think we have to be very careful with, I have to be very
• 1:25:34
  careful with, with changing Bitcoin.
• 1:25:37
  I mean, the the whole thing that happened with the with the, I
• 1:25:43
  forget, one of the one of the one of the bips just introduced
• 1:25:48
  the ability to for people. What was it called?
• 1:25:51
  Opti? What are those things called?
• 1:25:53
  Tapper. It introduced the ability.
• 1:25:55
  Yeah, it was. And it was like no one saw that
• 1:25:58
  coming, right. Like no one saw that beforehand.
• 1:26:01
  And then, you know, there's a bit change and then all of a
• 1:26:04
  sudden ordinals or inscriptions were, you know, were just like
• 1:26:08
  flooding everyone was like losing their mind.
• 1:26:10
  So I feel like in like changing Bitcoin and improving Bitcoin
• 1:26:17
  has to be a soft fork, obviously has to be backwards compatible,
• 1:26:21
  but also I think that there's always unintended consequences.
• 1:26:27
  So maybe I come from the ossification camp.
• 1:26:30
  Maybe Dave and I can't be friends.
• 1:26:32
  Maybe we should debate on this. I'm, I'm curious who, who, who
• 1:26:36
  was on the ossification side in Lugano?
• 1:26:37
  Do you remember I? Don't remember but I know it was
• 1:26:40
  LOP on the if my memory serves me correctly.
• 1:26:45
  Lugano, I have to look this up Anyways.
• 1:26:48
  Opti, do you want? Do you want to continue while I
• 1:26:50
  look this up? Alright, David, just go.
• 1:26:52
  Yeah, continue. I I think that the overtime
• 1:26:56
  window is kind of like all, all the points that, that, that you
• 1:26:59
  brought up are very valid that there could be unforeseen, you
• 1:27:04
  know, effects that that occur. I will say in the past couple of
• 1:27:09
  weeks there, there seems to be some rough consensus forming
• 1:27:11
  around a change for two OP codes, one called CTV check
• 1:27:16
  template verify and one for CSFS, which is check sig from
• 1:27:21
  stack. And these are two proposed
• 1:27:25
  changes that have been around for a handful of years now that
• 1:27:28
  people consider very low risk. And they're part of this
• 1:27:31
  category of of covenants. And this is maybe, I mean, knock
• 1:27:37
  on wood, but it feels like this is the the first time in a while
• 1:27:41
  where people are starting to form some consensus that says,
• 1:27:44
  hey, we're open to activating this.
• 1:27:46
  And there hasn't really been clear or credible push back from
• 1:27:50
  anyone against these two changes.
• 1:27:53
  There are other changes like OPCAT, for example, and people
• 1:27:56
  may be familiar with like Udi and Eric Core trolls and many
• 1:27:58
  Bitcoiners, you know, don't like them.
• 1:28:00
  Like this would not include Opcat.
• 1:28:03
  But it feels like even people from the slow and steady or kind
• 1:28:06
  of more ossification sympathetic camp are aligning behind this
• 1:28:10
  fork. And that to me is interesting.
• 1:28:13
  I also think, you know, we say that Bitcoin is very
• 1:28:17
  decentralized and it is. It is.
• 1:28:19
  But if you look historically at prior forks in Bitcoin, yes,
• 1:28:24
  it's decentralized. But really there, there, there
• 1:28:26
  were a pair of developers like kind of gods here, holy, you
• 1:28:30
  know, high priest people like Greg Maxwell and, and Peter
• 1:28:33
  Willey, who people said, Hey, Bitcoin is decentralized.
• 1:28:36
  But like, what, what do these people say?
• 1:28:38
  And they're the ones that have kind of like, you know,
• 1:28:41
  advocated and pushed forward the activation of, of, of these
• 1:28:44
  proposals. And I think over the years,
• 1:28:46
  those, those, those people have stepped back and stepped down
• 1:28:49
  and that has compounded this issue that that's really kind of
• 1:28:52
  for many people that are a bit newer to Bitcoin and don't
• 1:28:54
  understand the technical nuances.
• 1:28:55
  They've kind of like, respectfully, I mean this,
• 1:28:58
  they've brainwashed themselves into thinking that ossification
• 1:29:00
  is good, when in reality it's just, it's kind of like that the
• 1:29:03
  holy priests who who were pushing this just aren't as
• 1:29:05
  involved anymore. So I, I, I was looking this up
• 1:29:08
  in the background while you were talking.
• 1:29:10
  So essentially the debate the, the topic, by the way, if you
• 1:29:13
  guys want to watch this on YouTube.
• 1:29:14
  So the debate was use of Bitcoin block space and it was Luke
• 1:29:20
  Dash, junior Bitcoin mechanic Stefan Lovero was moderating and
• 1:29:24
  on the other side it was Peter Todd and Pete Rizzo.
• 1:29:28
  So it was very, very interesting.
• 1:29:29
  Another one though, Nico, I think that this is the one you
• 1:29:32
  were talking about is Jimmy Song versus Jamieson Lop debating
• 1:29:36
  Bitcoin ossification. Yeah, there we go.
• 1:29:39
  Exactly. So yeah, I mean, it is a hot, it
• 1:29:42
  is a hot button issue for sure. And I think there's, I think
• 1:29:47
  both sides have very good points and I think that's a good thing
• 1:29:53
  that there is debate. This is all good for Bitcoin and
• 1:29:58
  we'll we'll kind of see where this is going.
• 1:29:59
  But I just want to remind everybody David's initial point.
• 1:30:04
  And I think this is what people have to understand, right?
• 1:30:07
  On the base layer, it is impossible for Bitcoin to scale.
• 1:30:12
  On the base layer, it is not possible.
• 1:30:14
  Not possible, just not. This is not going to happen and
• 1:30:18
  it's current iteration. Lightning is great to use on a
• 1:30:23
  custodial level. Then that kind of defeats
• 1:30:25
  purpose, right? Lightning right now on a non
• 1:30:29
  custodial. Like I feel like if I just
• 1:30:31
  watched, you know, BTC sessions tutorials for a couple hours, I
• 1:30:35
  would eventually figure it out. But I got I, I just got stuff to
• 1:30:39
  do. I got to run, I got to run
• 1:30:41
  simply Bitcoin, right? So I just download Primal, I
• 1:30:44
  download wallet of Satoshi. Boom, bum Bing.
• 1:30:47
  I could receive SAT's, send SAT's and you know, that's it.
• 1:30:50
  But would I ever leave a considerable amount of money
• 1:30:52
  there? No, of course not.
• 1:30:54
  Of course not. It's it's just like a it's like
• 1:30:56
  a wallet, right? You're going to leave a couple
• 1:30:58
  $100 on your wallet and you lose your wallet.
• 1:31:00
  Yeah, it sucks, but it's it's not the end of, you know, it's
• 1:31:03
  not the end of the world now, like the problem is like, you
• 1:31:07
  know, we, if we want Bitcoin to scale to become the world
• 1:31:11
  reserve currency, we want hyper bitcoinization.
• 1:31:13
  Like, you know, essentially do we want Bitcoin to be confined
• 1:31:18
  to the shadows? Like we're like only a select
• 1:31:21
  group of people can afford to use Bitcoin on the main chain,
• 1:31:25
  can afford cold storage Bitcoin, could afford non custodial
• 1:31:29
  Bitcoin. Or do we need to come up or do
• 1:31:32
  entrepreneurs need to come out with different solutions trying
• 1:31:36
  to solve this problem? Right?
• 1:31:38
  That's that's the reality of the situation, right.
• 1:31:40
  So I see both sides of the story.
• 1:31:43
  I'm an ossification maxi. I'm like, you know what, all
• 1:31:46
  right, bro, like it is what it is, you know, like the bitcoins,
• 1:31:50
  the best savings technology. This is this is nice, but you
• 1:31:54
  know, yeah. So anyways, we are getting to
• 1:31:57
  the top of the hour and I do want to thank our guests for
• 1:32:01
  today, David C Roy for joining us on Simply Bitcoin Live.
• 1:32:05
  David, where can people find you and what you're working on
• 1:32:07
  because it's definitely a very interesting discussion.
• 1:32:10
  Yeah, you can find me on Twitter at David under score C Roy S as
• 1:32:15
  in Sam EROY or alpenlabs dot IO. And don't hold anything I say on
• 1:32:21
  Twitter against me. Awesome.
• 1:32:23
  Well, dude, thank you so much for joining us Opti.
• 1:32:26
  Appreciate it. Opting the Co host seat today,
• 1:32:29
  guys, this was Simply Bitcoin Live for March 12th, 2025.
• 1:32:33
  I'm your host Nico Smilelegendary, Co host Optimus
• 1:32:36
  Fields, and our special guests for today, David C Roy.
• 1:32:39
  Guys, we'll see you tomorrow for a brand new episode of Simply
• 1:32:43
  Bitcoin Live. Today's episode was brought to
• 1:32:46
  you by bitcoinwell.com, a Bitcoin only platform on a
• 1:32:50
  mission to enable financial independence.