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That Ferrari Show. With Ryan Sabga. · That Car Show

• 0:00
  And and then as time went on, Oh my gosh, I'm going to get in so
• 0:04
  much trouble for sale. Today on that car show, it's
• 0:10
  that Ferrari show with our buddy the Ferrari Whisperer himself,
• 0:14
  Ryan Saabka. We learn why Ferrari values just
• 0:17
  keep going up and up and up, why Ferrari owners tend to be a
• 0:21
  little different than you and me.
• 0:22
  And it's not just bank accounts. What Ryan would do if he became
• 0:26
  Ferrari CEO tomorrow. Why it might be time to
• 0:30
  reconsider the F1 transmission cars, at least on cars like the
• 0:34
  355. And why, yes, the F-40 isn't
• 0:37
  just the best Ferrari ever made, it's quite possibly the best car
• 0:42
  ever made. It's Ryan Sapka talking Ferrari,
• 0:45
  and it's that car show. Hey, it's that car show.
• 0:51
  Dan is still away. We miss him and hope to have him
• 0:54
  back again very soon. So it's me and Lindsay tonight
• 0:58
  and we are joined by our pal Ryan Sabka back to talk Ferrari.
• 1:02
  Ryan was on a few months ago, of course, and it's actually hard
• 1:05
  to believe that it's been a few months ago now.
• 1:08
  But I guess what? We had a phenomenal response to
• 1:11
  that episode, despite the fact that it was recorded on my
• 1:13
  iPhone. It was all very last minute, but
• 1:17
  we figured Ryan deserves a proper episode.
• 1:19
  So here we are. And I'm guessing many of you
• 1:21
  listening know Ryan, or at least know of him because he really is
• 1:23
  one of the most influential and respected experts in the Ferrari
• 1:26
  community. He's a regular part of events
• 1:29
  like the Colorado Grand, which is where I first met him, and he
• 1:32
  helps guide the acquisitions of many of the participants of the
• 1:35
  Grand and other similar events. We've since become good friends
• 1:38
  in regular breakfast companions, and it's always very cool to see
• 1:41
  Ryan's own world class collection of Ferraris, which
• 1:45
  includes a Mic drop, F-40 and several other cars of note.
• 1:50
  But the world moves quickly these days, and in the past few
• 1:52
  months since Ryan was first on the Ferrari world has gotten
• 1:55
  even crazier. The Luche EV was announced.
• 1:58
  Ferrari values across the board have skyrocketed, pushing some
• 2:02
  of what were the more affordable Ferrari models into
• 2:05
  unaffordability for many in Ferrari.
• 2:07
  Competitors like Porsche have made clear their intent to more
• 2:10
  closely mimic Ferrari's way of doing business and their result
• 2:13
  in profitability. So we've got a ton to talk about
• 2:16
  tonight. Welcome back to the show, Ryan
• 2:19
  Sapka. Hey, thank.
• 2:21
  Thanks for having me. I'm honored to be back.
• 2:25
  Honored to hear that our last minute episode in my garage
• 2:29
  ended up being such a hit for you.
• 2:32
  Fantastic. I mean, they say sometimes
• 2:34
  spontaneous, spontaneous stuff works the best, and that was
• 2:38
  true for the episode with the two of you.
• 2:40
  Yeah, I think so. That was a fun one.
• 2:42
  And, and and like I alluded to in the intro, it's only been 3-4
• 2:45
  months and yet, you know, the the market has, has continued to
• 2:48
  just, you know, explode. So how is it that Ferrari values
• 2:52
  just keep going up, Ryan? Well, I believe when I was on
• 2:59
  last I told you like, I think my thoughts on this are a little
• 3:02
  different than everybody else's. And I feel it's essentially new
• 3:06
  money coming in. A lot of wealth was created.
• 3:08
  I think a lot of generational wealth also was transferred and
• 3:13
  people have sort of accepted that cars are just so, you know,
• 3:18
  like, as somebody who like doesn't sell his cars.
• 3:22
  Like the reason I have so many Ferraris is because I don't sell
• 3:25
  one to buy one. It's like the Horde just keeps
• 3:28
  getting bigger. I think we can all relate to
• 3:30
  that problem in one way. Yeah, it's like people are like,
• 3:33
  oh, you're a collector. I'm like, I'm really more of a
• 3:35
  hoarder, but that's OK. And so I don't, I don't, I don't
• 3:40
  write. I don't pay attention to the
• 3:41
  value so much because to me, like all I care about is the
• 3:44
  money that I spend. I'd like to spend as little as
• 3:47
  possible because I'm never going to see it again, right?
• 3:49
  I'm never going to sell the car if the car is worth 10 times as
• 3:52
  much. OK, well, my kids problem most
• 3:55
  likely. And so tracking values isn't
• 4:01
  really so much my thing, but by nature I'm somewhat exposed to
• 4:05
  it. And So what I think is happening
• 4:08
  is, as I said, new wealth has been created, general
• 4:12
  generational wealth has been transferred.
• 4:14
  Cars are really cool. And some of these guys like I
• 4:18
  have so much money and I would like to buy one of these cool
• 4:21
  cars. And I'll give you a couple
• 4:23
  examples why I think that. So I think last time, I think
• 4:27
  one of the examples I used was like a 288 GTO.
• 4:30
  Somebody now has just a ridiculous amount of money.
• 4:32
  I mean, let's, let's say they, they cash out with the SpaceX
• 4:37
  IPO, you know, and do they care that a 288 GTO was $3,000,000
• 4:43
  not that long ago and now it's $8 million.
• 4:46
  They're like, whatever, I have $8 million now.
• 4:48
  I'm not going to miss it. I really love this car and they
• 4:51
  buy it and there's enough people who have that for a very finite
• 4:56
  number of cars. And so it's coming in.
• 4:58
  I also think people are coming in from other collecting hobbies
• 5:01
  like art, where it's not unusual to spend $40 million on a piece
• 5:05
  of art also. And look, I don't view cars as
• 5:10
  investments, OK? But but they are assets, OK?
• 5:13
  They are definitely assets. I don't view them as yeah, I
• 5:17
  don't, I don't view them as investments, at least for me
• 5:19
  personally, right. But I think it's important to be
• 5:23
  smart because they are assets and this is not a trivial amount
• 5:27
  of money. So my feeling with that is as
• 5:29
  these guys come in chasing a finite number of objects, you
• 5:35
  know, and, and, and they have lots more money than there are
• 5:38
  cars. Like that's what ratchets this
• 5:40
  up. And then here's the other aspect
• 5:42
  of it too. I do feel, and the report card
• 5:47
  on this will probably come back in like 10 or 15 years, but I do
• 5:51
  feel that people are starting to appreciate certain Ferraris as
• 5:56
  maybe like the great Impressionist paintings, right?
• 6:00
  Like there's a lot of great paintings of that Impressionist
• 6:03
  era, but then there's like Monet and Renoir and Degas and those
• 6:07
  are valued much higher than the others.
• 6:09
  And I think, you know, there's amazing other cars like, you
• 6:12
  know, Lamborghini's got some awesome cars and things like
• 6:15
  that. But I think Ferraris of a
• 6:16
  certain era are going to appreciate a different level
• 6:20
  because they are regarded and a little bit of a, of a different
• 6:24
  aspect kind of kind of like those painters are even though
• 6:26
  there's other amazing painters of that era.
• 6:30
  Now, I'll give you the other reason why I think that.
• 6:34
  So one of the cars that's near and dear to my heart that I own
• 6:39
  is my 512 BBII have one of the last basically 10512BB is it is
• 6:46
  an amazing car. I I looked at many, many of
• 6:49
  them. I I think mine is without a
• 6:52
  doubt one of the best ones in the world.
• 6:54
  And when I was buying it. So by the way, this is also a
• 6:58
  good story of like, if you listen to think that like I
• 7:02
  really know what I'm doing. Here's here's a good story.
• 7:04
  That's the counterpoint to that. I really don't know what I'm
• 7:05
  doing when I went to buy that car, like I really love that
• 7:10
  flat 12 architecture and I was torn is like too strong of a
• 7:15
  word. But I, I was deciding between a
• 7:19
  512 BBI and a 512 TR, both black, which is my favorite
• 7:25
  color for Ferraris, both Cavallino winners.
• 7:31
  So they were both really good cars.
• 7:33
  And I think the 512 BBI might cost at that time, like I, I
• 7:40
  can't remember like $100,000 more than the 512 TR.
• 7:46
  And I remember thinking, you know, they made 1512 Bbis,
• 7:52
  they've made 10,000 Testarosas in all.
• 7:54
  And there's I think 2500 five 12 TRS.
• 7:58
  And one of your listeners will correct me because it's up to my
• 8:01
  head. But, and I, and it's really hard
• 8:04
  to find a good 512 BBI like it is almost impossible.
• 8:07
  And I just remember thinking like, you know what, I should
• 8:10
  buy the 512 BBI because that car is going to appreciate much
• 8:14
  faster than the 512 TR. And if I still want a 512 TR,
• 8:18
  there'll be many to choose from. They'll be still relatively
• 8:22
  inexpensive, but the but the boxers going to like shoot up in
• 8:26
  value. OK, well here we are six years
• 8:28
  later. That same black 512 TR is
• 8:31
  probably worth 4 times what I could have bought it for and why
• 8:38
  my 512 BBI has gone up in value. It's probably only gone up like
• 8:41
  50%. Yeah.
• 8:42
  Interesting. And and So what that tells me is
• 8:45
  that there is an era of Ferrari that these going back to like
• 8:49
  who's buying all this stuff is like the forgotten era.
• 8:53
  And by the way, it is a sin. A 512 BBI should be $1,000,000
• 8:56
  car relative to all these other things.
• 8:58
  But it it's a sin that that they're, you know, 400,000 for
• 9:01
  like a, a pretty good one and half a million for an
• 9:04
  exceptional one. That's ridiculous.
• 9:06
  But what that tells me is the people who are coming in are new
• 9:11
  collectors and they're going after the cars that really spoke
• 9:14
  to them. And that's why you see the cars
• 9:15
  going up. F40F50, Enzo, F-12, TDFS going
• 9:22
  up. I mean, even things like 450
• 9:24
  Eights are going up a ridiculous amount.
• 9:26
  And, and, and then, and then some cars are forgotten.
• 9:30
  Daytona's relatively forgotten 512 DPI's all, all, all the, the
• 9:35
  boxers, the 365512BB and the BBI, you know, and it just kind
• 9:41
  of like kind of speaks more to that.
• 9:43
  So again, maybe in 10 or 15 years I'll get the report card
• 9:46
  back on that theory, but that that's my theory on on what
• 9:50
  might be happening. So do you see, and I think you
• 9:53
  kind of touched on this, I know obviously when Enzo passed away
• 9:58
  that impacted the values of the cars that had been built up to
• 10:02
  that point. Are you seeing that kind of
• 10:04
  inflection point matter as much today?
• 10:09
  Well, OK, so just, I was like, not even quite a teenager when
• 10:14
  that whole thing happened. But of course I've, I've heard
• 10:19
  all the stories, you know, as I, you know, as I grew up and it
• 10:24
  and it was like people paying ridiculous amounts of money for
• 10:27
  cars because Enzo passed away. It was like Ferrari was going to
• 10:31
  be done. And then there was a huge crash
• 10:36
  and the cars were worth, I mean, very low dollars, relatively
• 10:41
  speaking, to what people paid for them.
• 10:44
  And I mean, we're talking about, I heard stories of a dentist
• 10:49
  buying a warehouse and buying Daytona after Daytona and just
• 10:54
  stacking them in there because he's making so much money.
• 10:57
  And I mean, they all went to like 10% of what he paid for
• 11:00
  them like overnight virtually. He.
• 11:03
  Didn't unload them quickly enough.
• 11:06
  Yeah, well, I mean and and look, you know, all things are
• 11:15
  overcome with endurance, right? So if you just wait long enough,
• 11:18
  he'll be right again. But but I don't think we're in
• 11:23
  something like that. But sort of the FOMO that I see
• 11:26
  and the frenzy does does make me squint a little bit.
• 11:30
  But again, don't underestimate the amount of ultra high net
• 11:34
  worth individuals there are out there and how much money they
• 11:39
  have. Now I will tell you this from my
• 11:41
  professional life though some of you know my professional life
• 11:45
  has nothing to do with cars. But I am an expert in
• 11:52
  authentication businesses and collectibles, and I have seen
• 11:56
  this happen other collectible circles where once people sort
• 12:00
  of figure out the formula for understanding it, cracking the
• 12:07
  code and they and they rush in again, lots of buyers for
• 12:12
  relatively few items, the value goes up.
• 12:16
  And then some people come in because they're highly
• 12:18
  passionate about it. There's always a level of people
• 12:20
  who are highly passionate, so they will always support the
• 12:22
  hobby. So even if all the speculators,
• 12:25
  people who earn in for money leave, there's always a base of
• 12:28
  passionate fans to support it. But the question is that
• 12:32
  passionate fans, do they, are they here?
• 12:34
  Because here's what's going to happen with Ferrari's guys who
• 12:36
  are coming in buying these relatively new cars for quick
• 12:38
  flips and quick turns. Once once that kind of comes and
• 12:43
  goes, they're probably gone from the hobby.
• 12:48
  And if there's not as many buyers, I mean, it's, it's
• 12:50
  supply and demand and price equilibrium.
• 12:52
  Once there's not as many buyers, then the prices would naturally
• 12:57
  depress, right? But how many passionate people
• 13:00
  are there to support those prices with enough money?
• 13:02
  I think there's enough people to support this had a pretty decent
• 13:06
  level. Now, how high is this going to
• 13:09
  go? I don't know.
• 13:10
  How low is it going to go if these people leave?
• 13:12
  I also don't know. I'm not particularly good at any
• 13:16
  of this stuff, but I I've seen it in my in my job.
• 13:20
  And that's what's going to happen.
• 13:22
  Again, I think the true barometer is how many people are
• 13:25
  true Ferrari fans, how many people want to have certain
• 13:29
  Ferraris that are, are out there.
• 13:31
  And this is this is part of that.
• 13:34
  So do I think we see a massive crash like Lindsay, to your
• 13:38
  point, like the post Enzo death crash?
• 13:41
  I don't think so. But I also don't know how high
• 13:44
  this is going to go. And then I also don't know, you
• 13:47
  know, when the tide goes out with what this looks like, But I
• 13:49
  will say that that there are so many people who are passionate
• 13:53
  about Ferrari cars and who appreciate Ferrari cars.
• 13:56
  And and just so you know, all these great events that we do
• 14:00
  that we're part of fuel that passion, OK, They give people
• 14:03
  places to sorry the dog we. Love dogs here too.
• 14:08
  So unexpected guest. That's right.
• 14:12
  They they fuel the passion and they allow people to really
• 14:15
  understand, really understand the cars.
• 14:20
  And that will form sort of like the basis for support for prices
• 14:25
  and how high and how low, who knows.
• 14:29
  Anybody's guess? That's what I think it's not
• 14:33
  going to be. There's so many people who are
• 14:35
  true Ferrari fans and passion about Ferraris and Ferrari is
• 14:38
  such an aspirational company. You know, some people aspire to
• 14:42
  have a Ferrari one day. A3O8A.
• 14:45
  Testarossa A-430-A458. You know, like, like there will
• 14:50
  always be those people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 14:52
  How are Ferrari people different?
• 14:54
  And I know you know there are lots of different types of
• 14:56
  Ferrari people, but your your typical Ferrari fan, how are
• 14:59
  they different from like a Lamborghini person?
• 15:03
  I am the worst person to ask that.
• 15:06
  I have some ideas. Well, I I so listen.
• 15:09
  When I was growing up, the guy who owned a Ferrari was this
• 15:16
  somewhat eccentric, somewhat quirky guy who knew what oil he
• 15:20
  used, how much oil was in the car at that time, how to change
• 15:23
  belts. And he carried tools and he knew
• 15:26
  how to use them. OK, And not saying he could do
• 15:30
  all the heavy lifting, but he could do light stuff and kind of
• 15:33
  understand and, and was willing to put up with the inconvenience
• 15:37
  of a somewhat sometimes unreliable car in exchange for
• 15:40
  the joy of driving something exceptional.
• 15:44
  And I mean, not to do too much stereotyping, but they were
• 15:48
  generally more entrepreneurial than doctors or lawyers who grad
• 15:52
  who, who gravitated more toward German cars like Porsche.
• 15:56
  And and then as time went on, Oh my gosh, I'm going to get in so
• 16:01
  much trouble per SE. I was, I was, I, I was also a
• 16:08
  regional director for the Ferrari Club and president for
• 16:14
  the chapter for a number of years.
• 16:16
  Both of those span spanned a number of years.
• 16:18
  And so I saw some of these changes happen in real time.
• 16:20
  And it sort of changed from that to people who were super excited
• 16:24
  about placing their order for what stitching did you pick and
• 16:29
  what options and what special colours and things like that.
• 16:35
  And it sort of became, it went from being, if you want to call
• 16:43
  it a show of anything, it was like a show of your taste and
• 16:46
  your passion to becoming more of a show of wealth.
• 16:50
  Like I like to say like 4 wheel Gucci handbags and.
• 16:55
  It's an accessory. And let me tell you, Ferrari
• 16:57
  latched onto it and they went from being a very hardcore
• 17:03
  sports car manufacturer making a very few number of cars a year
• 17:07
  to a luxury good manufacturer tapping into the we are a luxury
• 17:12
  brand and building the brand as a luxury brand, which is not the
• 17:17
  same as being a a hardcore sports car manufacturer.
• 17:20
  And by the way, they use the sports car heritage to build the
• 17:25
  brand and luxury, but they went after a different set of buyers
• 17:28
  and going public. Just turn the dial to 11:00 on
• 17:33
  that and I'm probably going to get in a lot of trouble for
• 17:35
  that, but that is my opinion. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:37
  When you see like a car, like the Luche, like, where is your
• 17:40
  head? Speaking of getting.
• 17:43
  In trouble, yeah. Is it, I mean, does it did it
• 17:45
  explode? I mean, were were you I?
• 17:49
  How do you process that as someone who's say.
• 17:51
  I I was not surprised, OK. Really.
• 17:54
  OK, I was not surprised. I won't tell you all the reasons
• 17:57
  why I wasn't surprised, but I felt that they were going to
• 18:00
  take essentially the Apple electric car project and make it
• 18:05
  a Ferrari project. Now I think the part that I was
• 18:09
  surprised at and I knew it was coming, but yet I was still
• 18:13
  surprised is how UN Ferrari they made it.
• 18:18
  I mean honestly, if you if you stuck.
• 18:21
  You were expecting an apple element, but you were surprised
• 18:24
  by you figured it would be like with a lot of Ferrari flavor,
• 18:28
  and that turned out to not be the case.
• 18:31
  Yeah, I mean, here's a company that's known for its elegant
• 18:33
  design and all this great stuff. And they and they made the same.
• 18:37
  I mean, look, if, if, if it had a Nissan badge on it, nobody
• 18:39
  would bat a night. Yeah, right, right.
• 18:42
  OK. And but no, but, but for
• 18:45
  Ferrari, do that. And look, I will tell you this,
• 18:48
  Ferrari is certainly going after a different buyer.
• 18:52
  They're they're probably going after the ultra rich person who
• 18:57
  wants to drive an electric car and they want to drive the most
• 19:00
  expensive electric car they can buy.
• 19:02
  That makes a statement about their wealth and and maybe
• 19:06
  that's all they need. But Ryan, you asked me like, how
• 19:10
  do I feel as a dyed in the wool Ferrari fan?
• 19:14
  I think the problem is what the company signals to people like
• 19:20
  me is you are no longer our target market.
• 19:27
  I don't think I trust me. I don't think you're losing any
• 19:30
  sleep over not having me, but but it tell it tells me that.
• 19:36
  And and I think it's actually unfortunate because I think the
• 19:41
  company and again, this is so far above my pay grade and
• 19:46
  expertise. But as somebody who builds
• 19:49
  brands, especially like in the collectibles industry, I feel
• 19:54
  like the company has such a fantastic ability to make.
• 20:02
  Something that fuels so much passion, it's not for today or
• 20:05
  tomorrow or even next year, but for two generations ahead that
• 20:13
  could basically, I don't want to say like provide cash flow, but
• 20:17
  provide relevance to for such a long reach.
• 20:21
  And they are overlooking that in favor of, of, of what they've
• 20:28
  done. And, and people will say, oh,
• 20:29
  it's because they part of the ways with Pin and Farina and all
• 20:32
  that. Look, Pin and Farina's amazing
• 20:34
  and, and, and that could be it, but I don't think it's that
• 20:38
  simple, one simple answer, but, but the message is seems fairly
• 20:42
  clear to me. And, and look, this is just my
• 20:45
  opinion. I don't.
• 20:47
  I don't know anything anybody else doesn't know.
• 20:49
  I think it's not a coincidence that I think the newest Ferrari
• 20:52
  you own is a. Is it a?
• 20:55
  570. Five.
• 20:57
  OK. Yeah, yeah.
• 20:59
  Is that kind of where you check out?
• 21:03
  It kind of is, but I'll tell you why I love the Marinello
• 21:08
  platform. I just happen to have like one
• 21:11
  of the last Marinello's made because it has all the the
• 21:15
  updates that I really like. The very late Fiorano handling
• 21:18
  package has things like a different steering ECU,
• 21:20
  different chalk package, amazing things that I really like.
• 21:24
  But the Marinello campaigned at Lamont in both 575 and 550
• 21:30
  forms. You had amazing drivers like
• 21:33
  Colin McRae ran a Pro Drive 550 at Lamont.
• 21:39
  That car performed spectacularly.
• 21:41
  It has like real racing heritage.
• 21:45
  And the reason that that car did so well at Lamont is because the
• 21:48
  streetcar was such a great starting platform.
• 21:50
  By the way, boxers also ran at Lamont and they started with
• 21:56
  street cars and they converted them.
• 21:58
  And like, I mean, not as fantastic finishes as the
• 22:03
  Marinello's, but I think it was more reliability issues, not
• 22:07
  because of performance. And that stuff is like, so cool.
• 22:10
  That's the stuff that like speaks to me.
• 22:12
  And so that's kind of why I have that.
• 22:13
  I mean, you kind of go after that and it's like this stuff
• 22:17
  kind of like drops off from there, you know?
• 22:19
  Yeah. Yeah, not a lot of racing
• 22:20
  heritage in the Luche, huh? Well, I don't know, you know, if
• 22:25
  if Ferrari had to enter Formula E and they build the cars having
• 22:31
  all the Luche technology, they might be able to take part a
• 22:33
  little bit in there. But you know, kind of kind of
• 22:36
  hard to kind of hard to, to see. Yeah, so you know, with all
• 22:40
  what's happening with with Ferrari and sort of its its
• 22:42
  current, you know, state and all this, are we going to revisit
• 22:46
  cars like, you know, the 355 and the 360?
• 22:49
  Are those going to continue to go up and, and, and even the F1
• 22:52
  transmission cars, I mean, are we going to start paying
• 22:54
  attention to those now that, you know, we've written, written all
• 22:58
  those cars off right, F1 transmission terrible, whatever,
• 23:01
  but they could be had for half the price of a of a good gated
• 23:05
  car, right for the same model these days.
• 23:06
  Well, well, well, that's a that's a different kind of
• 23:09
  conversation. And I'll tell you a couple of
• 23:11
  things. Are those cars going to continue
• 23:13
  to go up and, and use not just 355 and 360?
• 23:15
  And I will, I will say this and I wouldn't watch it one of each
• 23:18
  of those. OK, so, so full transparency and
• 23:20
  all people be like I, I, I'm, I'm talking my own book here,
• 23:23
  OK, but I don't sell my cars. So take it for what you want
• 23:29
  relative to what other cars are and how much they cost and what
• 23:33
  you get. Cars like the 360 are criminally
• 23:37
  underpriced, especially the annual cars.
• 23:39
  Now, the 355, you mentioned, 355-F1 versus manual.
• 23:44
  Now let's have a very frank discussion about that car in
• 23:48
  particular, because I believe that is an exception.
• 23:51
  If I owned an F1355, I would never convert it to a manual
• 23:56
  car. Interesting.
• 23:58
  Never. It is the one.
• 23:59
  So several things. First of all, that was the first
• 24:03
  F1 car. It is a fully mechanical F1
• 24:07
  system. There's no fly by wire throttle.
• 24:10
  It is a hydraulic, hydraulic actuated clutch and the paddles
• 24:18
  are what they are. And it is a very analogue
• 24:24
  system. You have to Rev match just like
• 24:27
  you would in a manual car. And also that system was not
• 24:33
  built in the Ferrari factory. They built those across street
• 24:36
  at the Formula One factory and at least at least the first
• 24:40
  batch and then carted them across the street to the Ferrari
• 24:43
  factory to install them in those cars.
• 24:45
  Like it is really cool. And here's another thing.
• 24:49
  People may criticize it for its, you know, quote, UN quote
• 24:52
  performance, but you know, you're neglecting a couple of
• 24:57
  things. One is its relevance at the
• 24:59
  time. Like this was like the coolest
• 25:01
  piece of technology at the time. It still feels it's not.
• 25:06
  It doesn't isolate you from the car.
• 25:07
  You're still very integrated with the driving experience.
• 25:10
  You have to, as I said, match the Revs.
• 25:12
  You have a fly by, you don't have a fly by throttle.
• 25:14
  You have a cable throttle. It's hydraulically actuated.
• 25:19
  It's not all these computers and really taking you out of the
• 25:22
  process. Now, I prefer a manual
• 25:25
  transmission, but again, if I had an F1355, I would never
• 25:29
  convert it. And by the way, this is going
• 25:32
  back to supply and demand and price equilibrium.
• 25:35
  F1 cars are substantially cheaper than manual cars.
• 25:39
  And so is it worth it to you to spend that extra whatever
• 25:44
  percentage it is to have that manual experience or are you
• 25:50
  happy saving that money and really enjoying that F1
• 25:53
  experience for what it is? And I and I believe that
• 25:55
  probably too many people don't have that that hard conversation
• 25:59
  with themselves. Now, once you get to the 360 F 1
• 26:05
  is a little different. Now you have a fly by wire
• 26:09
  throttle, a few other things. But then when you get to the
• 26:12
  4:30, the 4:30 is the 1st V8 car with it brand new engine
• 26:19
  architecture. It's so it breaks away from the
• 26:21
  same engine architecture and started with the Dino with AV6
• 26:25
  that that carried all the way through the 360.
• 26:28
  And the 4:30 was basically built around that F1 transmission to
• 26:34
  make the shifts faster. The inertia from the from the,
• 26:39
  the flywheel and the engine really worked with it and it and
• 26:42
  it it's functional. Now manual F4 thirties are also
• 26:46
  really, really cool, but it's a little bit different.
• 26:50
  The 360 I think is the one that's kind of like the odd
• 26:53
  duck. And I will tell you this as
• 26:54
  somebody who owns a manual 360, it is one of the best manual
• 26:59
  transmissions of any Ferrari. Everything is weighted
• 27:02
  correctly. It feels exactly right.
• 27:06
  It suits the car just right. It really it really goes well
• 27:11
  with it. I feel like with the F430, the
• 27:15
  factory manuals that I've driven, I've driven a bunch of
• 27:17
  them, it's almost a little anachronistic in that you feel
• 27:21
  like here's this car with all this technology and and the
• 27:25
  manual sort of takes away from a little bit.
• 27:27
  Now, to be fair, when the 360 came out, all of that technology
• 27:31
  in the car was already like 10 years old.
• 27:33
  When the 430 came out, it was state-of-the-art for its time.
• 27:37
  So you like kind of leap, you had 20 years in technology.
• 27:40
  And so it's just something to think about.
• 27:42
  And again, I'm not like I'm right and other people are wrong
• 27:45
  or I mean, this is just my opinion and but I think
• 27:47
  everybody should have a conversation with themselves
• 27:49
  when they're looking for remember the last time I said
• 27:51
  don't buy the wrong Ferrari for you have that conversation.
• 27:54
  And by the way, these F1 cars are awesome cars.
• 28:00
  It is like I I think we get to it's like, you know, like I my
• 28:04
  friends and I joke. It's like, yeah, not, not that
• 28:08
  supermodel Her, her elbows are too pointy, You know, I mean,
• 28:11
  let's let's let's be a little. These are all amazing cars and
• 28:15
  they are really. And it's a privilege to own any
• 28:17
  one of them. And the nice thing is, is
• 28:20
  they've been they've been around long enough that any lack of
• 28:28
  robustness in the technology has all been kind of figured out.
• 28:33
  Like for example, if you have a 355 and the F1 pump is a weak
• 28:36
  part, well, guess what, you can put a 360F1 pump in there, which
• 28:39
  is much more robust. There's different workarounds
• 28:41
  for all this stuff, you know. And look, this is all, these are
• 28:47
  all amazing cars and I don't think anybody should rule them
• 28:51
  out or overlook them, particularly if you were on a
• 28:54
  budget of any sort. And again, just my opinion.
• 28:59
  Well, let's revisit that conversation, if we could,
• 29:00
  about, you know, making sure you get the right Ferrari for you.
• 29:03
  What was the gist of that? It was basically that you think
• 29:07
  you know what you want, but there's a car that's probably
• 29:09
  the better car for you. Yeah, well, it's like I compared
• 29:13
  it to to 9 elevens, which and by the way, I'm a I'm a big fan of
• 29:16
  air cooled 9 elevens. I think that those are really
• 29:18
  amazing cars. But it's, it's, it's like each
• 29:21
  time Porsche made a new air cooled 9/11, it was a little bit
• 29:24
  better than the one before, right?
• 29:26
  Where I feel that Ferrari made different cars to solve
• 29:31
  different problems. And then I think last from the
• 29:33
  example I gave was, you know, the 512 BBI was when it came
• 29:38
  out, it was largely panned by journalists.
• 29:39
  There's like, there's no room for, you know, luggage and it's
• 29:43
  kind of twitchy. And just now listen, 512 BBI was
• 29:46
  the fastest production car in the world at the time and that's
• 29:50
  what Ferrari made it a do and it kicked butt with that and then
• 29:52
  they complained the cabin was hot and all that Testorosa comes
• 29:55
  out, they move the they move the radiators to the sides and to
• 29:59
  the back cabin is much cooler. It was obviously very striking
• 30:03
  looking, very well designed and but that car could also carry
• 30:10
  plenty of luggage, but it was also more of a touring car
• 30:14
  because that's what they were respond.
• 30:15
  They were responding to that criticism that you can't take
• 30:18
  this car on a weekend. It's it's it's a little twitchy.
• 30:21
  It's a little more challenging to drive it where the Testarossa
• 30:23
  is like, I mean, it is I, I'm not people say truck like I
• 30:29
  would never say anything like that, but they are a little less
• 30:32
  drama, right? And, and so if you're looking
• 30:34
  for, hey, I want my V12 Ferrari to be exciting and drama like
• 30:38
  that's probably not the car. They're cool.
• 30:40
  They're amazingly cool. I I don't want to take anything
• 30:42
  away from it, but they're, they're, they're not as drama
• 30:45
  filled as some of the other ones.
• 30:46
  And by the way, that was by design.
• 30:48
  So my point is, if you're looking for that, buy the car
• 30:52
  that delivers that, don't buy the car that delivered the
• 30:56
  opposite of that. And that's where people need to
• 30:58
  educate themselves on which Ferrari is right for them.
• 31:00
  And just so you know, I also feel like if people really did
• 31:03
  that, you would see cars that are maybe relatively underlooked
• 31:06
  become more in favor. But again, people have to be
• 31:10
  honest with themselves about what it is that they want.
• 31:13
  And you know, the nice thing is, is there's so many great
• 31:15
  resources out there, so many great books.
• 31:17
  And you know you can. You can learn a lot all on your
• 31:21
  own. I love that that it's like do
• 31:24
  your research, you know, like really learn what each car
• 31:28
  delivers and what the experience would be.
• 31:31
  But also, like you said, like be very frank with yourself.
• 31:33
  Like, what do I want? Do I want something I can cruise
• 31:35
  in for the weekend? Do I want something that I'm
• 31:38
  going to take to cars and coffee or like a quick zip up the coast
• 31:41
  in the morning and it's got some drama and, you know, make me
• 31:44
  feel alive for a brief period? Like, what am I looking for?
• 31:47
  Because there is one that will give you, but you have to do
• 31:50
  your research so you know you're choosing the right thing.
• 31:54
  That's right. And listen, the drama gets old
• 31:58
  after a while. So like, is that really what you
• 32:00
  want, you know, or do you want more?
• 32:02
  You know, like, oh, I like this nice and reliable.
• 32:05
  So look, it's it's just one of those things.
• 32:08
  Yeah, so we've talked a bit about we're sort of in this this
• 32:11
  post performance era, right, where everything's fast, you
• 32:14
  know, led by EVs and all this. And it's just maybe a good time
• 32:17
  to revisit cars like the three O 8 or the Mondale or I mean, are
• 32:21
  are these cars now good again because we're not looking at
• 32:23
  them to, you know, beat the guy in the, you know, the Porsche
• 32:27
  next to you at the stoplight. I mean, OK, so here's did that.
• 32:31
  So here's a relevant story. Recently I participated in a
• 32:38
  rally put on by a really good friend of mine.
• 32:41
  Rally is not a good term, it's really a tour.
• 32:43
  He brought together some of his really good friends from the
• 32:47
  world of athletics and business and barn together for this
• 32:54
  really great trip. The combined cars and great food
• 33:00
  and architecture. And it was, and it was really
• 33:02
  mind blowing. That sounds amazing.
• 33:04
  He he hand picked everybody and I will just tell you front to
• 33:08
  back everybody was an amazing driver and a couple guys I would
• 33:12
  say were truly exceptional drivers that.
• 33:15
  Makes it a lot more fun too. The Oh yeah.
• 33:18
  And a lot of them had real race experience, you know, and every,
• 33:21
  I think for the most part, almost every had real track
• 33:23
  experience, but the cars were mixed and it was everything from
• 33:27
  like a new McLaren. I they're all are the same to
• 33:31
  me. So I don't know, but I think the
• 33:32
  first. Number was A7.
• 33:34
  Yeah, the first number was A7 and there was, I'll name a
• 33:38
  couple of the cars, they're 959, a couple career GTS.
• 33:45
  There were a couple guys with Vipers, 1 was a a Gen. 2 Viper,
• 33:48
  very well modified, TC modified. And then the other was a Viper
• 33:51
  ACR which was the 5th. Holy moly, yeah.
• 33:53
  Yeah. Yeah, and think.
• 33:55
  About undervalued F-40 Viper line, right?
• 33:58
  I mean, you know, tremendous, you know, values to be had
• 34:01
  there. Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, Yep.
• 34:03
  And F-40, great cars front to back.
• 34:09
  Well, I drove shout out to my my my best friend Anand.
• 34:16
  I drove 1973 Porsche Carrera RS210 horsepower.
• 34:24
  I think I may have had half as much horsepower as next closest
• 34:28
  car, but realistically 1/3 or more.
• 34:33
  And credit credit to my friend who set up this tour.
• 34:37
  He picked some of the greatest driving roads that I've ever
• 34:41
  been on. And Pete Stout from 000 actually
• 34:45
  led one of the days on his acting tested.
• 34:48
  Yeah, Yep. He's like this is where we test
• 34:51
  all the cars. And and I will just tell you
• 34:55
  that my little 210 bone stock car brakes, brakes were slightly
• 34:59
  modified. But other than the brakes, bone
• 35:01
  stock car, I was near the front of the group first four cars
• 35:09
  most of the time. I got waved by a couple much
• 35:16
  faster cars at a couple places. We were driving very spirited
• 35:22
  and at one point the guys in the Vipers were behind me and their
• 35:26
  cars are fast and they're they're exceptional drivers.
• 35:29
  They're really good drivers and I got on the radio.
• 35:33
  I'm like, do you guys want to pass the and they're like, we
• 35:34
  are having so much fun watching this little 50 year old car
• 35:39
  dancing around all the turns and put the pressure on these much
• 35:42
  faster cars. And they're like, this is like
• 35:45
  the most amazing thing to see. And and it's just, it's just a
• 35:50
  good example of the cars. You know, you said all the, the
• 35:55
  horsepower wars and cars getting so fast.
• 35:57
  The cars may have gotten faster, but the roads are still the
• 36:00
  same. The traffic is still the same.
• 36:02
  And I will tell you this, I know I was driving much, much harder
• 36:10
  than anybody else was because you know, I have, I have again,
• 36:13
  1/3 the horsepower I have to. But I will also tell you I was
• 36:17
  probably having five times as much fun as anybody else, you
• 36:20
  know, and it was, it was really amazing.
• 36:24
  And it just puts in perspectives like for all of the and in fact,
• 36:28
  Pete said this at the end of the day, Pete said, you know, he
• 36:32
  goes watching you in that career Rs.
• 36:34
  It just shows you that for all the stat sheets and all the
• 36:38
  numbers that all you need is a good old fashioned driver's car
• 36:43
  and you you don't lose a step to anybody.
• 36:46
  And, and, and I think that is important.
• 36:48
  So you ask about three O 8 and things like that.
• 36:49
  Look, I'm a big fan of those cars.
• 36:53
  I have had I think every version of a three O 8 and 328 GTB that
• 36:58
  there is with the exception of the two liter turbo cars and I
• 37:03
  have and I have one now and I I love those cars.
• 37:08
  I had, I had a 328 GTB for seven years and I only sold it because
• 37:12
  I had to sell it to be able to afford my F-40 when the I had a
• 37:15
  chance to buy my F40I literally sold everything that wasn't tied
• 37:18
  down to be able to pull out one off because I didn't know if I'd
• 37:21
  ever have enough money for again, you know, and, and so
• 37:28
  that's the only reason I sold it.
• 37:29
  But I had so much fun in that car.
• 37:31
  And I remember going on a drive, a very twisty mountain drive on
• 37:38
  your favorite Rd. Ryan when four 30s were new and
• 37:45
  there are only two guys at the front.
• 37:47
  We left the whole group behind. It was the famous Dan Hurd and
• 37:52
  his brand new 4:30 and me in my 328 GTV.
• 37:56
  And again, it's like if you know how to drive these older cars,
• 38:05
  there's no limit to the fun that you can have and you know, being
• 38:09
  being respectful of your surroundings and bicyclists and
• 38:12
  all that other fun stuff. But but again, the roads are the
• 38:16
  same. I, I look the, the horsepower is
• 38:19
  cool and, and there is nothing as cool as like, you know,
• 38:24
  getting on the track and like a 296 and seeing like this is like
• 38:28
  a, this is like spaceship fast, right?
• 38:31
  But but for daily driving like I, I don't know.
• 38:34
  I I, I like redlining it in second gear and still being
• 38:38
  under the speed limit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a
• 38:40
  pretty good. It's like I'm I'm actualizing, I
• 38:43
  mean, and that's the first Ferrari that I got to drive was
• 38:46
  a three O 8 with a gated manual. Thank you to our friend of the
• 38:50
  show, Mark Foster, who runs the Lion Air Museum here in Orange
• 38:53
  County, very generously tossed me his keys after I was telling
• 38:58
  him how much I loved Magnum Pi as a babe in arms.
• 39:03
  It was like you said, Ryan. It was like fun distilled.
• 39:06
  I like my daughter and I were just smiling ear to ear and I
• 39:10
  was like, this is fantastic. It was just like pure fun.
• 39:14
  And I think the good part about it and you just touched on this
• 39:18
  is it's so usable in everyday life in the sense of like, you
• 39:21
  could take it out like on a quick weekend drive.
• 39:24
  It's not something that you have to have access to a tractor
• 39:27
  truly enjoy because most of us don't have that in our daily
• 39:31
  lives regularly. So if you can use it every
• 39:34
  weekend or every week, even better.
• 39:37
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that and that is a truly
• 39:39
  engaging car. I mean, I think the three O 8 is
• 39:42
  a true. I mean in in true, like I always
• 39:46
  modify everything I have to make it a slightly better driver's
• 39:48
  car, but a couple small things, bigger sway bars and a little
• 39:53
  bit stiffer suspension, which not too hard to get.
• 39:57
  And then that car really comes alive and you take a little bit
• 40:00
  of weight out. That car really become comes
• 40:03
  alive. And guess what?
• 40:04
  You're having the time of your life and you're not going three
• 40:07
  times the speed limit. You know, you get pulled over,
• 40:09
  OK, you might get a ticket and a slap on the wrist, but you're
• 40:12
  not going getting hauled off to jail.
• 40:14
  Good luck with that in, you know, an F8 or a 296 or you know
• 40:20
  what I mean? Yeah, it's infinitely.
• 40:26
  We got to talk about the F-40, though, because, Ryan, I think
• 40:29
  we're about the same age. The F-40 was the car, right?
• 40:33
  Growing up. I think you and I, in the last
• 40:36
  show that you were on, I think you, you, you anointed it the
• 40:39
  best Ferrari ever made. Am I wrong?
• 40:42
  I think I said it's the best car ever made.
• 40:44
  Best car? Literally even better.
• 40:45
  I think I feel like if if God made a car and said, hey, are
• 40:49
  you, are you real drivers out there?
• 40:52
  Yeah, this is this is the car. I made it for you.
• 40:55
  That's for you. That's.
• 40:55
  The one and I will tell you, I mean, there's so much, there's
• 41:01
  so much F-40 stuff. I'm shocked.
• 41:05
  Neil, is it Neil, you made this? Oh.
• 41:07
  Beautiful. Yeah yeah, meal at this common
• 41:12
  if he watches this I have I mean I have all of the parts manuals
• 41:17
  and service manuals all the stuff there.
• 41:19
  I have millions of F-40 books, like probably every book I've
• 41:22
  been written. F-40 is a crazy car.
• 41:27
  And I and I'll just, I mean, I don't know how much time we
• 41:31
  have, I'll try and distill it. But I was 12 years old when it
• 41:35
  came out. And my favorite car before that
• 41:40
  was the Countach actually. And the F-40 was amazing because
• 41:50
  Ferrari was like, we'll put air conditioning in this thing, but
• 41:54
  nothing else that doesn't involve making it faster.
• 41:57
  It doesn't even have a Dome light, doesn't have anything
• 41:59
  like that. And it is they're tried and true
• 42:05
  tube chassis construction with like a carbon box put around it
• 42:09
  for for the tub to reinforce it. They weren't super good at
• 42:15
  carbon fiber at the time. So it's really a fiberglass body
• 42:18
  with a carbon Kevlar layer at the bottom.
• 42:21
  So it has strength from the carbon Kevlar bottom, but
• 42:25
  stiffness from fiberglass. I didn't know that is why you're
• 42:28
  not released. Yeah, everything's it's carbon.
• 42:29
  But if you look at the bottom, you see the carbon Kevlar, if
• 42:32
  you that you're not truly supposed to see the weave and an
• 42:37
  F-40, if you see the weave, it's because that polyester resin in
• 42:42
  the fiberglass is failing and the paint's sinking down a
• 42:44
  little bit, which happens over time.
• 42:46
  Like like like no big thing. But an F50, you are supposed to
• 42:49
  see the weave. That is a carbon fiber
• 42:50
  construction. And it's a it's a whole
• 42:52
  different thing. And so just just fell a little
• 42:55
  bit of the urban legend there for your viewers.
• 43:00
  There's no traction control. So Ferrari was like, what are
• 43:04
  the biggest tires? We can put 3330 fives in the
• 43:07
  back. That is the traction control.
• 43:10
  It has two IHI turbochargers that are so, I think so
• 43:19
  perfectly tuned that when you shift the red line in one gear
• 43:22
  and you come into the next, you come in just off of the boost
• 43:26
  and then the boost immediately starts building.
• 43:28
  Because if you came off of one gear and you went in the next
• 43:31
  and your RPM was higher and the boost came right back, you would
• 43:35
  overwhelm those 335 tires in back.
• 43:39
  And they stopped making that car in 1992, but they campaigned it
• 43:46
  all the way to 1998. And so they kept developing
• 43:50
  parts for that car all the way through.
• 43:52
  And if you know what you're doing and you know who to talk
• 43:54
  to and you know what you're looking at, you can get some
• 43:56
  really great period correct parts for that car that they
• 44:01
  developed three or four years after they stopped producing
• 44:04
  that car. And, and look, I mean, you got
• 44:07
  this is not, I mean, you got amazing guys like Franco Miners
• 44:10
  and in Italy and these other guys who really, you know,
• 44:16
  Julian Smith at at at Simpson and you know, all all these like
• 44:20
  super smart people who like really know how to campaign
• 44:23
  these things, you know, and, and knew what went into it.
• 44:26
  You know, Cristiano Mikulodo, like these guys made amazing
• 44:31
  things for these cars. But the point is, if you're a
• 44:34
  driver and you have enough money, like that is the car for
• 44:39
  you. And I will, and I will say this
• 44:41
  for a long time. OK, so when I bought my F-40,
• 44:43
  people pooped it. They're like, Oh my gosh, I
• 44:45
  can't believe you sent all of your money on an F4430 as fast
• 44:49
  as this side. I'm like, I'm like, you know
• 44:50
  what? I really don't care.
• 44:52
  I bought the car. I always run my my dream car.
• 44:55
  How amazing is that? And and then people would say,
• 44:57
  oh, they made too many of them. I'm like too many of them for
• 44:59
  what? Not too many of them for me to
• 45:01
  be able to get parts like that's amazing, right?
• 45:04
  Like there's 1300 thirteen 111 made 212 US cars.
• 45:08
  I have AUS car. There's some key differences
• 45:11
  between the two that I for one, truly appreciate and parts are
• 45:18
  not hard to get. And the cool thing about Ferrari
• 45:20
  is because they made so few cars at the time, they didn't make a
• 45:24
  lot of their own stuff. So if you want certain things
• 45:29
  like rubber gaskets for your fuel pump, well, they happen to
• 45:36
  be the same as Alfa Romeo 164. You didn't hear that from me,
• 45:40
  but you know, and. Also a cool car, not enough for.
• 45:45
  Also a cool car and and and you know, so instead of paying
• 45:47
  hundreds of dollars to Ferrari, you can spend $16.00 Alfa Romeo
• 45:51
  and you get the same part. Right, it doesn't look the same
• 45:54
  for today. Literally the same part, right?
• 45:55
  Right, right. So rhyme let me put put me in
• 45:58
  your Pilates, right? You, you, you, you pick up this
• 46:01
  car, you or you had it delivered or whatever, this car that you
• 46:04
  know, you grew up your teenage years lusting after.
• 46:08
  I I mean, this is this is the car, this is the car.
• 46:11
  And now you've got 1. You get in that car for the
• 46:14
  first time and take it out for a drive.
• 46:16
  What I mean, what is that feeling like?
• 46:18
  I don't know that I've ever had a feel like it's part of my
• 46:20
  wedding day or the birth of my daughter or something, right?
• 46:22
  I mean, that's got to be like up there.
• 46:27
  Yes, I mean, it's, it's everything that you would
• 46:31
  imagine. But also I will tell you this, I
• 46:33
  am a lot of an introvert and I will tell you the car deserves a
• 46:39
  lot of attention but I do not like the.
• 46:42
  Attention. And just because I have the car,
• 46:44
  it doesn't make me special. I'm not really better than
• 46:46
  anybody else because I have this car and and that part is really
• 46:49
  hard for me. So the one thing that I learned
• 46:52
  Ryan is that is that is a car to drive at 5:00 AM and you were
• 47:00
  going. To be expected to interact with
• 47:01
  everybody because it's so. Yeah, you get the looks and the
• 47:05
  stairs and I don't like that. That's actually one of the
• 47:07
  things that why I gravitated to Ducatis so much, you know, with
• 47:10
  motorbikes, because two things, One is you can have the most
• 47:14
  amazing and rare and special Ducati and the guy in the toilet
• 47:17
  yourself next to you has no idea what it is.
• 47:19
  Also, you have a helmet with a visor and you don't have to
• 47:22
  interact with anybody. People don't see you and they
• 47:24
  don't know who you are. And I will just tell you, like
• 47:26
  the F-40, the biggest, the biggest thing I've learned from
• 47:29
  the F-40 is that they brought that experience straight over.
• 47:34
  I and I'll also tell you this story.
• 47:37
  I was invited to a track day by somebody who who we both know
• 47:42
  and love at PPIR and he said I'd love it if you could bring your
• 47:46
  F-40 and give some my my people's rides are on track.
• 47:50
  Like, no problem. I took it.
• 47:52
  I ripped out some really good laps I had.
• 47:57
  I did the first couple laps with a track instructor and he was
• 48:05
  kind of speechless. That not that was a good
• 48:08
  feeling. Oh, I'm such a crazy driver, but
• 48:10
  that I was like actually driving it, I think, you know, and and
• 48:16
  so like, that was really cool. But the one thing I realized
• 48:20
  real fast is, well, everyone wants to race you.
• 48:22
  I'm like, I'm here in my old my. I mean, it was still an old
• 48:26
  Ferrari at the time. I mean, that time it was yeah,
• 48:30
  it was 2020 something years old and and I just want to go and
• 48:36
  have a good time and share this passion with other people.
• 48:40
  But yet everybody in their brand new Porsche 9/11 turbos once
• 48:48
  stick their nose underneath me going into the corner and I'm
• 48:51
  like, I, I didn't come for that, you know, So again, like more
• 48:55
  unwanted attention. Now look, I don't want to make
• 49:00
  it sound like, Oh my gosh, what a horrible experience to own
• 49:03
  this amazing car 'cause it's not, it's amazing.
• 49:05
  But but, but to your point about like here, you have this great
• 49:08
  experience, you're like it, it puts things like really front
• 49:11
  and center in your face that you are like that.
• 49:14
  You're like, wow, I didn't know I was signing up for all this.
• 49:16
  And by the way, like good, good, good lessons for me because
• 49:22
  honestly, you know, I learned a lot of like interesting things,
• 49:26
  like first of all, like, well, what other people may think of
• 49:30
  me is none of my business. Like I'm, I'm just carrying on
• 49:33
  doing my own thing. Kind of like live your life your
• 49:37
  way. And also there's a lot of noise
• 49:42
  out there and you separate the noise from the signal.
• 49:45
  You know, when you have some of these over the top cars, people
• 49:50
  will attribute certain qualities to you that really like you
• 49:57
  think you're so great at this or so great at that.
• 49:59
  And I'm like and and and maybe I am, but but maybe I'm not and
• 50:03
  the car has nothing to do with it, but the people will will
• 50:05
  make that. And so you have to start
• 50:08
  becoming very comfortable with who you are very, very quickly.
• 50:11
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's yeah, because
• 50:13
  you're and you can spend your entire life trying to correct
• 50:16
  people's assumptions or go like, yeah, yeah, but I'm, I'm not
• 50:19
  that guy or I'm not, you know, whatever.
• 50:22
  Like I, yeah, yeah, it, I think it highlights, like you said, it
• 50:26
  highlights what other people that with the definitions they
• 50:30
  have in their heads. And I think I've had that for
• 50:32
  myself too, where you're like, oh wow, I fill in the story this
• 50:36
  way and maybe that's not true. On the other side.
• 50:41
  It's just one of those things, you know, and and I will tell
• 50:45
  you I've never buying that car was the best decision I ever
• 50:49
  made in my entire life. And it's, and just so you know,
• 50:52
  it wasn't all like happiness and and roses.
• 50:56
  I mean, I remember I started a company shortly thereafter and I
• 50:59
  mean, we were not cash flow positive for a long time and I
• 51:04
  had to sell a couple of cars to pay, pay tuition for my kids
• 51:09
  schools. I regret selling the cars.
• 51:12
  I do not regret that decision at all.
• 51:13
  Like my kids come first. Luckily, selling the F-40 was
• 51:17
  never part of my consideration. And you know, it's just, it's
• 51:21
  just one of those things like you're still a normal person.
• 51:24
  You live real life. You just maybe make some
• 51:27
  irrational choices to fuel your passion, which, by the way,
• 51:32
  what's the point of life if not to have irrational exuberance
• 51:35
  for the things that we really care about, right?
• 51:38
  That's really living it. And I think something else
• 51:40
  unique about a handful of cars, that being one of them that you
• 51:43
  truly have the power to like change lives with that thing.
• 51:47
  Like just seeing that car for a young person can I truly think
• 51:52
  changed the trajectory of their life.
• 51:54
  I remember seeing my. Firstly.
• 51:55
  Kuntash as a kid, everybody had chase it down in our Chrysler
• 51:58
  minivan to see where it went, you know, or whatever the my
• 52:00
  first roof, my first Carrera GTI mean this is that car.
• 52:04
  It has a. It has a gravity.
• 52:06
  Oh yeah. I, I look, I think it's really
• 52:08
  important for kids who are passionate about this stuff to
• 52:12
  see these things to 8 get an appreciation for it.
• 52:15
  Be know the stuff is possible. Like if, if you want to have one
• 52:19
  of these like you, it is all there for you to figure out how
• 52:23
  to get it, you know, and, and I feel like if people don't see
• 52:27
  this stuff or don't see people using them like that, that, that
• 52:31
  doesn't ever take hold, you know, and not to make this like
• 52:35
  all serious or whatever, but I really, I really feel like, you
• 52:38
  know, the, the, the, the sharing and the giving back and all
• 52:40
  stuff is like a, is a pretty important thing.
• 52:42
  And I have a lot of friends who take that part very seriously.
• 52:45
  You know, I mean, we're all really privileged to, to own
• 52:48
  these cars, no matter how hard we worked or whatever hardships
• 52:51
  we've had to go through to to attain them, we're all highly
• 52:57
  privileged. Yeah, absolutely.
• 53:00
  And I think all of us were lucky to have that experience as a
• 53:02
  kid, You know, probably more than once where someone was
• 53:05
  generous and said, like, hey, do you want to sit in this
• 53:08
  incredibly special car or you got to see something on the road
• 53:11
  and it sort of opens up? Like you said, Ryan, were you
• 53:13
  like, wait a minute, Like these things exist in the world.
• 53:17
  People are using them. Maybe that's something for me.
• 53:20
  I mean, there's a like my parents are heavily involved in
• 53:23
  the Cobra owners club and there's a car show that they do
• 53:25
  every year. And there was this little boy
• 53:28
  that happened to be at the show right when a lot of the cars
• 53:30
  were leaving this year. And it was the cutest.
• 53:33
  I mean, his eyes were as big as saucers.
• 53:36
  And, you know, my family takes that approach to like my parents
• 53:39
  and my husband and I. And it's like, do you want to
• 53:41
  come sit in the car? And he was too shy to sit in any
• 53:44
  of the cars, but he got to stand there and watch them drive away.
• 53:48
  And it was like, you could see his brain exploding, like in the
• 53:52
  best way possible. And it's like, it's just, I
• 53:55
  think it adds to the experience of having these cars, being able
• 53:58
  to share them with anybody really.
• 54:00
  But especially like the next generation and young kids where
• 54:03
  they're just like, wait a minute.
• 54:05
  And a lot of them have grown up on the cars movies.
• 54:09
  And so there's some equivalent. They're like this is Lightning
• 54:11
  McQueen in real life. Yeah, right.
• 54:14
  Yeah, I mean, no, you're getting to meet your heroes and it's a
• 54:16
  positive. Yeah, well, and that and I'm
• 54:20
  sure that kid will never forget that.
• 54:21
  But then, you know, and at the same time I I think about the
• 54:27
  the Angeles Highway AI. Video where it's like.
• 54:32
  Yeah, Where, where, where, where?
• 54:33
  It's like the old guy's like, yeah, let me show you my old
• 54:35
  car, kids. This is really cool.
• 54:38
  Yeah, definitely. We were like, oh, were we that
• 54:40
  guy for a minute, like. Oh, I, I, I try not to be that
• 54:44
  guy, but I'm, I am sure that I'm a little bit of all of those
• 54:46
  guys in those videos at one point or another, even though I,
• 54:49
  I'm not hard not to be, you know.
• 54:50
  Well, there's a reason I'm running great, because they're
• 54:52
  so honest, because we all connect.
• 54:55
  Yeah. Well, so Ryan, I want to quickly
• 54:56
  ask you, and I say this not knowing what color your F-40 is.
• 55:02
  So I may be really stepping in it here, but in 2022 there was
• 55:06
  an F-40 that was auctioned off by RM Sotheby's and it got a lot
• 55:11
  of attention because it had been redone in a very unique,
• 55:14
  controversial way, the Grigio Nardo.
• 55:16
  Nardo Nardo Grey. We started to twitch.
• 55:19
  Right. I know He's like, yeah.
• 55:20
  So are you looking in my garage right now?
• 55:24
  You know, for those who haven't seen it, I would describe it as
• 55:27
  kind of a primer grey. But it was very, you know, there
• 55:29
  were like, Ferrari had thoughts. Yeah.
• 55:31
  I'm curious what your thoughts were when you thought.
• 55:33
  Yeah. Well, it was an art.
• 55:36
  It was an Nardo Grey car. Yeah.
• 55:38
  And which is actually an Audi color.
• 55:40
  Yeah. And it was converted to an LM.
• 55:43
  And, you know, here's my feeling with that.
• 55:48
  There is no one right way to enjoy any of this stuff.
• 55:53
  Like, who am I to say the way I enjoy my cars is the way
• 55:56
  everybody should. I have friends who are super
• 55:58
  passionate about having cars with no miles on them and they
• 56:03
  and they get so much enjoyment of rubbing them in the diaper
• 56:05
  and for them to leave their garage is like terrifying to
• 56:08
  them. And you know, there's some
• 56:10
  people who can't leave cars alone.
• 56:11
  They have to modify them endlessly and that's the fun for
• 56:15
  them. And you know, so you know, that
• 56:20
  car is to somebody's taste. Now, I will tell you this, I
• 56:23
  believe they had a hard time selling that car.
• 56:25
  So maybe it's not to as many people's face as they may have
• 56:28
  thought. But again, it only needs one
• 56:30
  person. But again, going back to my
• 56:32
  earlier point, there's price equilibrium, there's supply and
• 56:35
  demand. And then the price equilibrium
• 56:36
  is where those two lines meet and, and you know, it, it is
• 56:44
  what it is. Like, I'm not a big, I mean,
• 56:48
  again, who? I mean, who am I to, to, to
• 56:51
  judge? I have my own way and I live my
• 56:53
  life my way. My cars look a certain way, and
• 56:56
  other people can do what they want with their cars, you know?
• 56:58
  And you know, if their cars are ugly, well, they have to bear
• 57:02
  the consequence. That's not me.
• 57:05
  Yeah, well, on that note, if you were the CEO of Ferrari, right,
• 57:11
  if, say, old Bendetto were to have an unfortunate accident or
• 57:14
  something and they gave you a call, Ryan Sopka, what are you
• 57:17
  going to do differently day one? Like what?
• 57:19
  Where? How do you want to steer this
• 57:20
  Ferrari ship moving into the future?
• 57:22
  Manuel's coming back. What are you doing?
• 57:28
  OK, well, you didn't, I didn't know you're going to ask this
• 57:31
  question, but let me let me let me think for a second.
• 57:33
  I'll I'll tell you what I would do.
• 57:35
  I I would actually. OK, so it's a publicly traded
• 57:38
  company. So you so you have to have a
• 57:40
  road map of ever expanding demand, right?
• 57:45
  Because you have to beat the previous quarter, quarter after
• 57:47
  quarter or else your stock takes a big dump.
• 57:51
  However, I would not leave the passionate Ferrari says behind.
• 57:58
  I would without a doubt, look, we have all this technology.
• 58:03
  I would not use the technology to be making 1000 horsepower
• 58:07
  cars. I would be using the technology
• 58:10
  to make 2000 LB cars that would pass all of the safety standards
• 58:16
  they would. I'd probably make a line that is
• 58:19
  500 horsepower, 506 hundred horsepower, truly analog cars.
• 58:25
  I mean, I would go back to minimal power steering, manual
• 58:30
  transmission, a little bit of traction control, ABS, and a
• 58:36
  line of lightweight cars like that.
• 58:38
  I would make a line of luxurious grand touring cars that that
• 58:44
  kind of like meet all the needs. I would also make a line of, you
• 58:51
  know, latest and greatest horsepower war cars, but not
• 58:55
  tons of them. And also I don't want to make
• 59:00
  13,000 cars a year. I would go back to making 9000
• 59:04
  cars a year. You sell every single one, the
• 59:07
  prices can get a little bit higher and you can actually
• 59:10
  bring all these other things to generate money, both top line
• 59:16
  and bottom line, without having to increase the number of cars.
• 59:19
  I mean, Fry's an amazing brand. Use the brand to your advantage.
• 59:22
  You know, it doesn't have to just be about pumping out cars
• 59:25
  like Honda and and again, like this is so far above my pay
• 59:29
  grade and I have no business discussing this, but but here we
• 59:33
  are. You know, I would just like
• 59:35
  that, but there would be, there would be definitely a line of
• 59:40
  real sports cars again, where the technology would be used for
• 59:43
  lightweight and, and they'd be for real drivers as well as some
• 59:48
  of the other things. And I would also sort of tap
• 59:50
  into history and, and make instead of having it be like
• 59:55
  there's AV8 line, or I'll guess now it's AV six line.
• 59:58
  Instead of there being like AV6 line and AV 12 line, I just had,
• 1:00:01
  I'd be like, there's a, there's a real drivers line.
• 1:00:04
  There is a grand touring line. There is a technology line that
• 1:00:10
  has all of the latest technology and there is a, and there is a
• 1:00:14
  line, a high luxury line where this is the car for people who
• 1:00:18
  want the most luxurious experience possible with the
• 1:00:20
  Ferrari badge on it. And I would actually cater to
• 1:00:22
  each of those user groups and, and I would use the brand.
• 1:00:29
  I, I would use the brand in different ways to add necessary
• 1:00:32
  income to keep the public market happy.
• 1:00:35
  And then I would also use those cars to and by the way, there
• 1:00:39
  would be Halo cars in there too, but I would use cars to propel
• 1:00:44
  the brand and keep the brand relevant again for multiple
• 1:00:47
  generations going forward. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:50
  And again, I have no business answering that question, but
• 1:00:52
  that's how I would answer. I think it was.
• 1:00:54
  A pretty great answer, really. Well, answered I I'm on board.
• 1:00:57
  What about you, Lindsay? I was going to say, you heard it
• 1:00:59
  here first. I think we have the new one.
• 1:01:01
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right.
• 1:01:03
  Well, I. Have like a.
• 1:01:04
  Point I have to brush up on my Italian that's.
• 1:01:07
  Right. You know, well, I know we're at
• 1:01:08
  like an hour. I do have one final question to
• 1:01:11
  end on for you. What's the best time you've ever
• 1:01:15
  had behind the wheel of a Ferrari?
• 1:01:17
  Like if you could go back and do it again?
• 1:01:18
  When was it just dialed in for you?
• 1:01:22
  OK, in 2016 maybe I I used to put on a really amazing event
• 1:01:33
  called the Aspen Still Mass Loading Classic and it was not
• 1:01:38
  always Ferraris it had. I brought different clubs
• 1:01:40
  together and we would do a combination of Rd. rallies,
• 1:01:44
  awesome meals we would do a fun party to support Morgan Adams
• 1:01:48
  Club and a track day. I would I would organize time
• 1:01:51
  with the track for US. One of the days I would there,
• 1:01:57
  we would do a drive down from Aspen to Paonia for lunch and
• 1:02:01
  back on on on good old Highway 133.
• 1:02:04
  Well, just so happened that that was the same day the grand was
• 1:02:09
  wrapping up and they were coming back and Oh my gosh, our good
• 1:02:14
  friend Tom is going to get so mad at me for this story.
• 1:02:17
  Tom, I'm sorry, but I I want to tell a story.
• 1:02:19
  Apologize in advance. TG Mettler was in and I'm going
• 1:02:24
  to get it wrong, but I think he was in a 200 SI Maserati and I
• 1:02:29
  was in my Ferrari 348 challenge and he and I had the best time
• 1:02:36
  duking it out on Hwy. 133 from Paonia up to Carbondale on
• 1:02:42
  Clerpas and all the twist. And all that.
• 1:02:44
  Stuff. And it was it was truly epic for
• 1:02:50
  me. And, and I just remember and of
• 1:02:53
  course, like sometimes you have traffic and you have to be real
• 1:02:55
  careful. I never cross on a double yellow
• 1:02:58
  ever, ever, ever is a hard and fast rule that I have never
• 1:03:01
  cross on a double yellow. I mean, I was very respectful.
• 1:03:04
  So had to wait and then like make up the gaps while I could.
• 1:03:06
  And I just remember, I will never forget it.
• 1:03:10
  I just remember thinking like this is the best time I've ever
• 1:03:14
  had in a Ferrari. And of course it can be more
• 1:03:15
  time. I think of some other things,
• 1:03:17
  but that is the one that that's good.
• 1:03:18
  My mind that stands out. And I've and I've had lots of
• 1:03:21
  great times, but that was definitely one of them.
• 1:03:24
  And it was and it was awesome. Yeah, yeah, that's fantastic.
• 1:03:27
  That is yeah, that's the right recipe right there, even down to
• 1:03:30
  TG. Well, I.
• 1:03:32
  Was going to say TG kids, good friends and like partners in
• 1:03:36
  crime with our friend Trent Abbott who was on with us.
• 1:03:38
  And yes, well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:40
  He was an active member of the PT Cruiser.
• 1:03:42
  There's anonymous group that I'm a part of, so we love to hear
• 1:03:46
  stories outside of that world. Well, TI, I would just say TJ is
• 1:03:49
  a world class guy. Like like like every time I see
• 1:03:53
  him, he's just whether it's him on the grand or an auction or
• 1:03:56
  whatever. And and you know, like that,
• 1:03:58
  that that that group him trans aid, like everybody is just
• 1:04:02
  they're amazing people. Yeah, part of the great one of
• 1:04:05
  the great side benefits of being in this hobby.
• 1:04:08
  Exactly. I was going to say, like, you
• 1:04:09
  meet, you meet the best people, and then you just have these
• 1:04:12
  totally random friendships and amazing experiences and it's
• 1:04:16
  just so much fun. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:18
  We got to pinch ourselves sometimes, don't we?
• 1:04:20
  It's pretty great. Well, Ryan Saabka, appreciate
• 1:04:23
  you coming on again. You know, we could go on all
• 1:04:26
  night, but we need to have you back again in a few months as
• 1:04:28
  the Ferrari landscape shifts. Is is it?
• 1:04:30
  No. Doubt.
• 1:04:32
  Sure, we'll change more. But I always enjoy talking to
• 1:04:36
  you buddy, so thanks for coming on.
• 1:04:38
  Yeah. Well, thank you.
• 1:04:40
  Till next time, Lindsay. Thank you to everybody for
• 1:04:44
  joining us this week and thank you, of course, to Ryan.
• 1:04:46
  It was great to meet you officially and we appreciate our
• 1:04:49
  audience being here, listening, liking, subscribing and sharing
• 1:04:53
  with their enthusiast friends. Until next time, remember always
• 1:04:56
  be driving. We're that car show and we'll
• 1:04:58
  see you next week.