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The Jamison Family Pt. Two · The Path Went Chilly

• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Path Wind, Chile for part two
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: of our series about the unexplained deaths of the Jamison family. Robin,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: do you want to catch everyone up on when we
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: talked about in our previous episode?
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Well, I previously mentioned that this was featured on the
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: very first episode of Disappeared that I ever watched. It
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: involves a family from Oklahoma, forty four year old Bobby Jamison,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: his forty year old wife Sherilyn, and their six year
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: old daughter, Madison. This is in October of two thousand
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: and nine. At the time, neither of the two parents
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: were working. They were on disability because of injuries and
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: various mental health issues. They had pulled Madison out of
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: school to homeschooler, and were known for being kind of
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: a private and reclusive family, and it was pretty concerning
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: because they were displaying like a lot of paranoid and
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: erratic behavior. They thought their home was haunted. They thought
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: that Madison was talking to the ghost of a deceased girl.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: And then one day they decided to go out into
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: a remote area of Latimer County in order to supposedly
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: purchase a plot of land. But they soon vanished without
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: a trace and their abandoned pickup truck would be found.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: It had the family dog inside, who was near death,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: though thankfully she was saved, and the strangest detail was
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: thirty two dollars in cash hidden under the driver's seat,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: which was presumably going to be used to purchase the land,
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: but no one could figure out why it was left there,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: and pretty much four years passed by without anyone having
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: any idea what happened to the Jamisons. There were a
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: number of different theories involving them possibly being murdered by
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: a white supremacy group or being murdered by obviously strange father,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: but there was really no evidence pointing in to any direction.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: And then, finally, four years after they were a last scene,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: in November of twenty thirteen, the remains of all three
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: victims were found in the woods, about three miles away
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: from the spot where their truck had been abandoned. They
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: found the skulls and their bones scattered around there, but
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: 'ren able to determine the exact cause of death of
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: any of the three victims. There's been debate about whether
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: they were the victim of a homicide by an outside
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: party or because of the parent's erratic behavior. Possibly one
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: or both of them committed a murder suicide where they
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: killed Madison and then ended their own lives. But of
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: course no gun or murder weapon was found, and no
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: one knows how they actually died. And sadly, it's now
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: been almost eleven years since the remains were discovered, and
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: the investigation has pretty much hit a standstill. And that's
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: why we're talking about it on today's episode.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Less than three miles from the remote dirt road where
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: their truck was parked shows that their deaths definitely occurred
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: sometime after they arrived in the area. Now, even though
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: a very extensive search effort was performed and failed to
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: turn up anything. We've reiterated so many times on this
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: podcast that even the best search operations will fail to
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: turn off human remains, especially when you're dealing with a
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: rugged wilderness area. There are so many missing persons cases
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: like this where the victims remains or partial remains are
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: discovered in the same area they disappeared from years after
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: the fact, meaning that the original search effort missed them.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I do think that's likely what happened here in the
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Jamison case, though some interesting comments were provided by Tim Graham,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: the deer hunter who found their skulls. Even though the
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: skulls had sunk into the soil a little bit, Graham
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: said they were visible and lying next to an easily
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: accessible trail, so we openly expressed his surprise that the
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: searchers never found them back in two thousand and nine. However,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of miserable weather and heavy rains
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: during that time period, some of which took before the
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: truck was even discovered, and the original search team believed
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: that the remains might have been obscured by falling leaves. Indeed,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: it does seem far fetched that someone would abduct all
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: three family members and murder them at another location, and
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: then return back to the area to dispose of their bodies.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: But another interesting detail that Graham noticed was a hole
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: in the top of Bobby's skull, which he believed may
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: have been a bullet wound. Will investigators said that the
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: hole might have been caused by a coyote who not
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: on the skull's edges. Graham replied, quote, ain't no coyote
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: did that? Well, since no gun could be found at
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: the scene and there were no traces of any bullets
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: or slugs. It's never been conclusively proven that any of
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: the victims were shot. One of the reasons the murder
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: suicide theory has gotten some traction is because a twenty
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: two caliber gun Sherylyn owned, like we mentioned earlier in
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: our last episode, was never accounted for. But we also
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: can't be one hundred percent certain she even had it
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: on her when she traveled to Latimer County. I don't
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: know how common it is for animals to pick up
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: guns off the ground and carry them away, but I
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: guess that provides a potential explanation for how a gun
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: could have disappeared from the scene if it was used.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: The area was also apparently prone to flash floods, so
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: that's been pushed forward as a potential explanation for why
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: the gun wasn't there. Like given that the three victims'
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: remains were all found together in the same spot, I'm
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: not sure how much flooding took place.
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: When you look at this and you ask, Okay, is
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: there are a gun involved, Like we talked about on
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: episode one, I think that it's hard to make that
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: determination given the conditions the bodies were found in. Unless
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: there was a clear indication of the bullet wound, which
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: I think would have also been confirmed when their bodies
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: were recovered and the remains were sent for examination. It's
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: difficult to say this looks like a gunshot wound because
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: they were scattered. There was injuries to the bones because
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: of the weather and because of the elements, and because
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: of the animals that were taking them and scattering them.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: So it's really difficult. But it's scary when you think
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: about the twenty two missing and you remember that letter
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: that was found. It was in the truck, correct, that
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: eleven page letter. It was yeah, okay, So to me,
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: she leaves with that briefcase. It's possible she had her
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: gun with her at the time because they couldn't find it,
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: and there's this eleven page like hate letter that she's
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: written to her husband. Doesn't seem like something I would
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: take along on a family trip when we're going to
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: have fun or go on vacation. She's clearly not happy
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: with him at the time, and I feel like that
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: would be that motivation for either her or Bobby to
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: actually act out in reaction to that letter, like why
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: would you bring it with you?
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, we're going to talk about the letter
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: a bit more later on. I mean, it's possible that
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: she could have written that at a previous time, and
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: possibly Bobby and Cherylyn had made out by then and
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: the letter just happened to be in the truck. We
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: did another case like that in the early days of
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: The Path Went Chile, with the murders of Mike Reamer
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: and Diana Robertson, where their little girl was found abandoned
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: at an apartment store while their bodies were found in
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: the woods, and there was some ambiguity about whether Mike
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: might have murdered Diana because he was known for being abusive,
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: and there was like a note found in the truck
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: that said I'm sorry Diana, But we don't know if
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: he wrote that on the day of the crime, or
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: if it was just written on a previous occasion and
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: it just happened to be in the truck. So it
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: could be the same thing with Sharlyn.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to venture a guest and say that
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: their truck was likely pretty messy, so there could be
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: any number of dates that Sharlyn might have wrote that letter,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: especially since her family members had said and we mentioned
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: in our previous episode that this was typical of Shrilyn
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: when she was going through her bipolar depression or bipolar mania,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: that she would have very extreme emotion and she would
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: express them in letters.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it almost felt like this could have been
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: like a starting over for the couple, that even though
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: they had some problems, they were going to go purchase
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: this parcel of land and maybe just get a fresh
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: start when they moved to this new location. So maybe
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: whatever she written that wrote on that letter, maybe days
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: or weeks earlier, it had all calmed down by that point. Now,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: in any unsolved case involving a deceased family, no one
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: wants to flat out accuse parents of killing their own
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: child before taking their own lives unless there's definitive proof
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: of that. But we also cannot ignore the fact that
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: there were a number of major warning signs with Bobby
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: and Sharlin. Both of them were on disability and could
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: not work as Bobby suffered from severe chronic back pain,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: while Cherylyn struggled with bipolar disorder and depression and made
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: a failed suicide attempt only one month before she went missing.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: The couple seemed to believe their house was haunted by spirits,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: and Charlyn wrote cryptic graffiti on a storage container outside
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: their residence in order to give off the impression that
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: she was a witch and scare her neighbors. But according
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: to people who knew her, Sheldon may have just been
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: playing things up because she did not like her neighbors
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: and figured that the best way to ensure they left
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: her alone was to make them think she was crazy.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Of course, the biggest red flag was, like we said,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: the angry eleven page letter, which was found in the
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Jamison's pickup truck, where Sheerlyn expressed a lot of anger
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: towards Bobby and seemed intent on ending the marriage. Given
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: how they seemed to believe that Madison was communicating with
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: malevolent spirits, it's possible that either or both of them
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: could have suffered a complete mental breakdown and convinced themselves
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: that ending Madison's life was the best thing to do
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: before they killed themselves. While there are a lot of
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: things about the Jameson's actions which don't make any sense,
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: all rules pretty much go out the window when you're
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: dealing with victims who were suffering from potentially serious mental
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: health issues and could also be under the influence of drugs.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: While no gun was found at the scene. There were
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: a lot of empty pill bottles inside the truck, so
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: if a suicide took place, it could have been the
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: result of some sort of overdose, which would have been
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: impossible to determine after they've been skeleton remains for four
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: years now. On the Disappeared episode, the family's friends and
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: her relatives acknowledge that even though Bobby and Shrilyn had
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: gone through a rough patch, their decision to relocate and
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: buy a plot of land in the mountains was their
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: attempt to make a fresh start. While Sharerlyn's later gave
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: off the impression that she felt a lot of hatred
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: towards Bobby, we technically don't know when exactly it was written.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: For all we know, it could have been written weeks
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: earlier and left inside the truck. But things that actually
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: improved for them since then.
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: So one of the things that I was thinking is
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: that with Madison, if they truly believe she's dealing with
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: the demonic entity and she's talking to this demon and
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: the demons have possessed their home, and they're asking their
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: pastor things like is there a bullet we can get
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: to eliminate these spirits? In our house, Like, how do
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: we get rid of the evil that's here? It almost
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: give me flashes of like Andrea Yates who thought that
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: she had to kill her kids one to prevent Satan
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: coming back, and that was her way to like save
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: her babies, was to eliminate their life, right because she
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: was so scared of the evil coming in their life.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: So when you guys described that to me earlier in
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: the episode before talking about how they were literally going
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: to their pastor in desperation to get this evil out
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: of their home, and we're even turning to Satanic Bibles
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: and witchcraft to see if they could free themselves from
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: from that darkness. They're claiming their baby was engaged with
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: this demonic force. It was dark and you know, malicious.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: So could they have said, we have to get rid
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: of her, and if we do that, I want to
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: be with her, and they could have taken their pills
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: to overdose. I think that's very possible strangulation or even
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: overdosing her. But strangulation would be a way that you
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: wouldn't see any markings on the bones that were clear
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: weapon wounds. It would be something that would obviously disappear
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: or dissipate after you just had the bones there, right,
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: unless they happen to find the broken hyoid bone or
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: something like that, But you would think that that is
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: one possibility is saying I'm going to spare my child's
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: life to save her and then I don't want to
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: deal with life without her.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: One thing we can to ignore, too, is the fact
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: that the greatest predictor of homicidality is suicidality. So the
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: fact that Sherilyn had a suicide attempt one month prior
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: to all of these deaths is something that statistically would
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: likely make her the most likely perpetrator if it were
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: to be between her and Bobby. Would that be correct
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: our in house criminologist doctor Ashey Wellman.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. We have this idea that they were both
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: obsessed with death. They clearly didn't fear death, and Sherilyn
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: had already shown that she was at a point where
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: she didn't care about living anymore. It was more important
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: to her to take her own life and get out
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: of whatever situation was haunting her than to fight through it.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: And so I agree, once that boundary gets cross and
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: life is no longer valuable to you, or it feels
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: safer to not be here. I think it opens up
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: a whole realm of possibilities of what other options you
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: have to eliminate yourself and others.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: I remember when I first heard the detail about the
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: empty pill bottles, like that was my number one theory,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: that they went into the woods and the overdose, like
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: they force fed Madison some pills before they took them themselves.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: But then I'm thinking, why are they leaving the empty
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: pill bottles in the truck when they're found three miles away,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Like what they empty the bottles and then just carry
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: the pills with them Like that doesn't make a lot
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: of logical sense. So it's very possible that it could
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: just be that they ran out of medication at an
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: earlier time and left the pill bottles there and they
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: have nothing to do with the case.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: However, there has been speculation the Jamison's trip to look
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: at Land was just a cover story for something more nefarious,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: such as drug dealing. Well, no direct evidence has ever
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: been found to prove that Bobby and Sherland were dealing
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: or using drugs. I'm not say prize that some people
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: have attempted to link their odd behavior to a methamphetamine addiction,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: since Oklahoma has always been known for having a major
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: meth problem. The discovery of the thirty two thousand dollars
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: under the truck driver's seat has also fueled speculation about
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: drug dealing, since that seems like a lot of cash
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: for two unemployed parents on disability to be carrying around.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: But before we start digging into all these theories, let's
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: look at the circumstances of how the Jamison's wound up
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: in a remote mountainous area of Latimer County. To begin with,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: we do know that they already drove to the spot
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: the day before they went missing, as a local resident
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: confirmed having interacted with them, and since Bobby asked a
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: number of questions about what it was like to live
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: in the area, this does give off the impression that
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: he was serious about buying land there. Interestingly enough, if
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: you search online, you'll find a blog titled keep the
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Search Alive containing an old post from January twenty twelve,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: written by an online s sleuth who decided to interview
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: some people connected to the case during the time period
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: that Jamisons were still missing. This person claimed that they
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: spoke to the resident who encountered the Jamisons and learned
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: that she showed various properties on Panola Mountain for a
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: real estate company. Apparently, the woman offered to show Bobby
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: the property he was interested in buying, but he declined
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: her offer and asked for the GPS coordinates for the
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: spot instead. I mean, it's possible that Bobby simply wanted
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: to look at the property on his own, but you
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: could also infer that he did not want the real
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: estate lady there because he had something else planned. What
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: the biggest issue I have with his theory about the
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Jamisons traveling there to participate in a drug deal or
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: some sort of illegal transaction is why would they bring
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: their six year old daughter along with them? If Bobby
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: was involved in something potentially dangerous, might not have Chrylyn
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: stay at home with Madison or leave the child in
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: the care of someone else. If they wanted to scout
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: a location that they were planning to make their new home,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: then yes, it makes a lot more sense to bring
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Madison there. And then there's the fact that the Jamisons
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: brought the family puppy, Maizie to the location and left
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: or locked inside the truck, which nearly led to her
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: starving to death. I mean, perhaps we shouldn't be attempting
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: to apply standard logic to the Jamison's actions, but if
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Bobby and Sherlyn were always planning on some sort of
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: murder suicide, it just seems exceptionally cruel to lock their
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: dog up to slowly die over the course of several days,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: rather than simply shooting her. By all accounts, Madison was
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: completely attached to Maisie and considered the dog to be
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: her best friend, so she likely would have had a
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: meltdown if someone attempted to separate them against her will.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: This is why it's tempting to believe that an outside
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: party drove the Jamisons or forced them to walk to
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: the location they were found while keeping the dog locked
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: in the truck. This wouldn't be the first case I've
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: seen in which someone had no qualms about murdering multiple people,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: including a child, but drew the line at heart me
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: an animal.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: I think when you look at this too, for me
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: the animal, why wouldn't you do the same with the animal.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: Why wouldn't you get someone to board the baby or
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: watch your fur baby and say listen, we'll be back
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: in three days. And you really have no intention of
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: coming home, even if the plan was to do a
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: murder suicide kind of event. I also have been there
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: where you're looking at real estate and you don't want
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: the pressure of a real estate agent trying to convince
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: you to buy the property, so you simply just want
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: to go by and peek at it. It would make
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: sense to take Madison at that point and the family dog,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: like we're gonna go out there. We're going to look
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: at this property, let the dog lose, let the baby
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: run around and play, and just see if we feel
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: like this is a place we want to be. Find
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: it very interesting that Bobby's asking people about what it's
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: like to live there. It's almost like he has that
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: intent of saying, I want to see if this is
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: the right place for my family, and he's actually inquiring
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: about things that would make it livable and safe for
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: his family to be there. It is interesting, though, when
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: you find this dog locked up. Although when we talk
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: about true crime, we tease about it that people, you know,
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: they love to watch the true crime part of the case,
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: but once you hurt an animal, well you've gone way
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: too far. Could someone have been willing to lock that
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: dog in the car to hope that it survived, or
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: could the dog have been one that made them uncomfortable
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: or scared that they might attack while hurting their owner.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: That's a possibility too, so they locked the dog in
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: the car. It just seems bizarre, Like you said, if
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: I'm going off to complete suicide, I don't bring my family,
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: I don't bring the dog. If I'm doing a murder suicide,
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: why did I bring the dog and not execute it? Too,
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: very very bizarre scenario. Bobby is showing signs of actually
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: being interested in the property, but some of the other
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: steps make it seem like was he preparing for something
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: else as well, or was it maybe sherry Lynn who
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: was preparing the darkness while Bobby was excited about buying
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: this property.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: That is true because if Bobby was planning a murder suicide,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: it really doesn't make much sense that he would stop
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: by and ask for directions, because from his point of view,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: it doesn't really matter where we go. If we're going
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: to end things, we can just go to some random,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: remote area. We don't have to pick a specific property.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: So his behavior does demonstrate that he seemed to be
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: legitimately interested in buying land. But of course that doesn't
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: rule out the possibility that Sherilyn was always planning to
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: end things once they arrived at this spot. Now, one
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: odd detail which doesn't seem to make any sense is
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: that Bobby's cell phone was used to call its voicemail
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: on October the twelfth, four days after the family first
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: arrived at that spot, And what are the chances that
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Bobby would have still been alive there after all that time.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: But since the cell phone was locked inside the truck
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: with Mazie, the most logical explanation might be that she
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: accidentally stepped on a button which caused the phone to
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: call voicemail. So this detail might not have any relevance
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: to this case. Judging from the footprints of the scene
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: and the GPS coordinates on Bobby's cell phone, investigators believe
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: that the entire family walked up a nearby hill towards
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: a large rock, which is where the final photograph of
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Madison was taken with the cell phone. You can look
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: up that photo online and judge for yourself, but it's
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: always been the subject of device of reactions and interpretations.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Some people, including the Jamison's relatives and friends, believe that
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Madison looks frightened and uncomfortable, possibly because the photo was
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: being taken by someone else besides your parents. But if
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: you search any online discussions about this case, you'll find
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: a number of commenters who believe there's nothing out of
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: the ordinary about it. Well, obviously, the fact that this
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: would be the last photograph of Madison before something happened
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: to her is incredibly eerie, But I personally have never
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: gotten the sense that it was taken while something bad
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: was happening, and I just don't get the impression there's
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: genuine fear on the girl's face. Yes, the manner in
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: which your arms are crossed is odd, but it also
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: comes across as a typical reaction from a six year
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: old who is not in the mood to have their
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: picture taken. I'm sure anyone with children has had moments
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: where they just happened to snap a photo of a
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: kid at the exact wrong second, and the end result
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: looks incredibly awkward. I'm sure there are many family photos
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: out there of children giving off the same type of
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: reaction as Madison, But because those kids didn't wind up
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: going missing, there's nothing ominous about them. I wouldn't roll
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: out the possibility that Madison could have been uncomfortable because
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: her parents were doing something she did not like. But
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: I don't buy the theory that this photo was taken
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: by a stranger. Remember, Bobby's cell phone was found inside
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: the truck, so I'm not sure why an outside party
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: would go to the trouble of using the phone to
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: snap this picture before walking back down the hill and
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: locking it in the truck.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, when you look at the picture. To me, when
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: I first pulled it up, I thought, awkward, six year old.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: I can go through my phone and pull fifty pictures
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: where I'm behind the camera going can you please look normal?
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: Can you please smile for the camera? Put your arms down, honey? Right,
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: trying to make her look quote normal, And she's just
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: a silly, awkward kid, right that does a silly face,
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: is frustrated, has had you know, doesn't want their picture taken.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: Like you said, So it's hard to read into it.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: But if you're the family and you're saying, this is
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: the last picture that was taken of her, look at
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: how quote uncomfortable she looks. Is it because someone else
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: is behind the camera. I could see that kind of
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: almost hope that that would be a lead right, or
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: a clue that could help bring a resolution, especially when
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: these babies were missing, where the family's saying something's wrong
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: in this picture, see if this is a clue. To me,
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: it does look more like the awkward kid. I find
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: it bizarre that her little clothes don't quite fit right.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: They're out on this trip to hopefully scout out property.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: It's possible that they simply just didn't have the resources
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: to dress her and clothes that fit. It's possible, too, though,
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: that that's a sign that she was being neglected, or
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: that her health was just not the priority at that moment.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: They might have been so mentally distressed that they just
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: didn't have the ability to care for her the way
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: she needed to be cared for. And or that was
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: her favorite darn shirt and she refused not to wear
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: it that day, even when her parents said it didn't fit.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: So a million things to be happening in that photo.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: To me, I would default to an awkward kid, like
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: you said, Robin. If she hadn't gone missing, nothing would
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: have ever been thought of this picture, I don't think.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: But yeah, actually I figured you were going to say
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: that that you were going to because you're a parent
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: that you were going to tell me you have a
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: whole bunch of your own awkward photos of your child
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: looking similar down Madison looks. But because they were just
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: taken at a normal time and your children did not
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: go missing, there was nothing out of the ordinary about them.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And think about all the family pictures like
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: your friend's post where they go spend a lot of
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: money on family pictures.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Today.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: Looks like Susie wasn't in the mood, right, and there's
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: one kid that's just like pouting or staring off into
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: space or being weird, and you're like, God, bless every
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: everybody else looked at the camera. But all she did
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: was keep her mouth gaping open and her arms cross
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: the entire photo shoot. Right, So it's real hard to
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: force a kiddo to pose the way you want them
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: to and never come out with a picture that you go,
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: what a weird bird? Right, that's my kid being a
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: fruitcake right now. So I think it's very possible she
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: was just hot and fed up and don't take my picture.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: The theory presented by Sheriff Beechen was that after the
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: photo was taken, the Jamisons walked down the hill, on
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: their own and climbed into the truck to drive away
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: until someone else unexpectedly showed up. But investigators have never
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: given off any indication that they found tire tracks from
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: an outside vehicle at the scene, and while eight days
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: passed before the Sheriff's office arrived, they were able to
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: find the Jamison's footprints, so you'd think that additional tire
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: tracks would have been preserved as well. There was a
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: local resident who said they saw the Jamison's truck driving
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: towards the area on October eighth, but never saw them leave,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: and they also did not see anyone else enter or
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: leave the area as well. Of course, I'm sure the
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: witness didn't have their eyes on the road the entire time,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: so it's possible someone else could have driven up there
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: without being noticed. But it's such a remote spot that
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: it makes you wonder how an outside party would have
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: even known the family was there. I suppose that Jamison's
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: could have made arrangements to meet someone or followed to
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: that spot, as they had already gone there the previous day.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: The scenario about them being confronted by an outside party
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: while they were attempting to leave made sense back in
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, since they were still missing, because
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: for all anyone knew, the family could have been abducted. However,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: the family's remains were ultimately found just under three miles away,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: and if no one else was involved, you have to
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: wonder how they got from point A to point B.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: For starters, Bobby's back and chronic pain issues, as we mentioned,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: made it very difficult for him to walk long distances,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: especially on rugged terrain, so it doesn't make sense that
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: he would go there on his own accord, even if
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: he was planning a murder suicide. Why create a bunch
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: of additional pain for himself by walking nearly three miles.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Another theory which has been presented is that the family
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: wandered off and got lost before they succumbed to exposure.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: But why would they lock all their personal items of
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: the truck. It was reportedly a very chilly day, so
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: there's no reason to leave their jackets there. We know
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: they use the GPS coordinates on Bobby's cell phone to
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: walk up the hill towards the rock, so it makes
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: no sense for them to come back down, put the
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: phone in the truck, and then walk in a different
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: direction without it. But like we said earlier, if we're
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: talking about people with serious mental health issues who could
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: have been planning a murder suicide, then trying to find
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: logic in their actions might be pointless for sure.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: I also think, in my gut, it's not Bobby necessarily
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: who's leaning towards this murder suicide. If that's what happened,
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: it seems like sherry Lynn was more prone to have
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: a lack of concern for her own well being, much
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: less her families, and she had written that letter that
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: she was dissatisfied with him. She was the one who
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: was really talking about the demonic forces with her child.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: So I think it's possible that when Bobby said, hey,
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: let's go look at this property, she says, perfect, let's go,
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: and maybe not even planning initially to have this happen,
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: could have been the one who actually prompts let's go
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: on this hike, let's go out on this walk, let's
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: go do this or that, and is the one who
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: actually acts because Bobby, like we said earlier, is showing
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: signs that he truly did want to see this piece
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: of property. What is it like to live here?
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: Can you give me directions? To this piece of property.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: He's asking the questions that show a deeper interest, and
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: we don't hear that from shery Lynn. We don't see
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: her behaviors at that point. Maybe it wasn't him planning it.
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: Maybe he's convinced by sherry Lynn to go on this
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: hike or go on this walk, and he's hurting or complaining.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: She said, come on, honey, we have to go. We
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: got to keep going, and therefore he's conned into it.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: So that's a possibility as well. I agree with you.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: I think there's a greater possibility that if somebody was
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: planning this, we see more warning signs with sher Lynn.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: And I think if she did indeed go to this
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: place three miles out, that is the big question mark
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: for me. I don't know why, but she wasn't in
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: a healthy mental state, So again, if we're trying to
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: apply logic to what was her decision, but I just
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: think it would have been a really arduous process to
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: try to drag Bobby three miles and Madison as well.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: I don't think either one of them would have been
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: easy to move. And then I guess I could see
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: a scenario where she could have had her twenty two
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: caliber and maybe ended their lives through the gun somewhere
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: and then ended her life in another manner. But it
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: just seems like such a long hike.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, if she had her gun, she could have
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: maybe forced Bobby to walk three miles at gunpoint, because
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: she's obviously not going to care about how much paint
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: he's in if she's planning on killing him, and she
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: could probably make the hike on her own, but of
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: course she's got to bring Madison along with her, and
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: it just seems so pointless, even for someone with mental
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: health issues. Why are you going to the trouble of
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: walking a great distance when you don't even have to.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Of course, the big puzzler in this case is the
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: thirty two thousand dollars hidden under the driver's seat in
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: the truck. If the family was murdered by someone, then
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: I can understand them not taking this money, as it
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: was so well concealed that the killer might not have
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: even known it was there. But that only raises the
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: question why did the Jamisons bring it to this location
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: in the first place. In fact, since Bobby and Sherlyn
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: were both unemployed and lived on disability, where did all
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: that cash come from. It sounds like Bobby received a
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: settlement from the accident which injured him and his mother
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: said the amount was sixty four thousand dollars, which he
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: split with Sherlyn. Given that thirty two thousand dollars is
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: half that amount, the numbers do add up. And there's
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: also the fact that the security footage showed shre Lind
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: loading a brown briefcase into the truck before the family
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: left the residence. Since this briefcase has never been accounted for,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: could it have contained Sharland's split of the settlement money.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: If oulplay took place and there was a lot of
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: cash in the briefcase, then the perpetrator might have stolen
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: it without even being aware that there was additional money
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: under the driver's seat. If that thirty two thousand dollars
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: was settlement money, then I can see why Bobby might
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: have elected to keep the entire amounting cash rather than
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: deposited in the bank. The United States is known for
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: being very rigid when it comes to checking the finances
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: of people who are on disability to ensure they're not
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: making too much money and scamming the government, So perhaps
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Bobby did not want to leave a paper trail. But
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: if that's the case, why did Bobby bring all this
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: cash to Latimer County with him. I know that Bobby
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: learned about this plot of land from the Internet, but
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: I don't have any information about who was actually selling it,
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: and if Bobby could have just approached them with thirty
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: two thousand dollars in cash in order to purchase the land.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: This is why there has been so much speculation that
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: the money was going to be used for something illegal,
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: such as buying drugs, though no evidence has ever been
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: found to support this theory. If the family was planning
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: to orchestrate some sort of murdered suicide, it makes you
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: wonder why they would bother bringing all that cash with them.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: But then again, it's possible that only one of the
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: parents was planning something like that and the other was
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: taken by complete surprise. In the end, the money was
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: turned over to the closest surviving air, which was Bobby's mother, Starlet,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: So if he was feeling suicidal, perhaps Bobby wanted to
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: ensure the money would be found and she would receive it.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: But that still doesn't explain the suitcase that would go missing,
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: or that they never recovered. They could have also had
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: money in it. What's interesting is that Bobby's money wasn't
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: very clearly displayed. It was hidden under tools under his seat, right.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: So while yeah, a whole search of the car would
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: have revealed it, if he was really hoping his mom
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: was going to get it, wouldn't he have written a
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: note and put it on the you know, on the seat,
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: or left a box it said for mom and it
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: would have been in there. It just seems like it
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: was hidden. I actually had never thought about what you said, Robin,
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: that maybe he had the cash with him so he
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: could purchase the land out right, and maybe he could
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: just do a cash sale with the owner of it.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: I do think it would be very hard to quote
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: hide the money from the government, though, because oftentimes under
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: taxes you're asked about any lawsuits or legal matters that
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: have been settled in the past year, and so I
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: believe they would have had to report that it's a
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: court process that got them the money. So it's it
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: would be pretty hard to hide a legal settlement. So
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: I think having the cash on hand to make a
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: property purchase might be a more valid explanation, but not
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: sure they could have completely skirted by without the government
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: having accountability for that money.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Unfortunately, you don't have any information about what happened
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: to the money after the settlement took place, if he
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: ever did put it in the bank, because they've never
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: reported anything about Bobby making any large cash withdrawals or
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: emptying his bank account in the days or weeks prior
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: to his disappearance, So it's still a big mystery where
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: all that cash came from.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: In addition to the photograph of Madison, the other odd
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: detail which has been the subject of a lot of
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: debate is the security footage of Bobby and Sherilyn loading
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: their truck with items on the morning they went missing,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: as they reportedly walked back and forth around twenty times
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: while never acknowledging or speaking to each other, and they
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: were described as being in a trance like state. I've
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: seen a lot of online commentors state that they don't
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: believe there's anything unusual about this video at all. Well,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: the problem is that general public has only seen snippets
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: of it. If you search for it on YouTube, you'll
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: only find very brief clips that show several seconds worth
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: of still frames, and the quality is so poor that
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: it's impossible to clearly see Bobby and Shrilyn's faces or
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: determine if they're in a so called trance like state. However,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: it was Sheriff Beacham who used the phrase trance like
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: on the Disappeared episode. He's seen the entire footage, so
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: maybe he has a different interpretation, and I know one.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Psychologists believe that Bobby and Sharlyn's behavior in the video
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: match the symptoms of people who were on drugs, but
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: given that the marriage was not in a great place
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: and the couple had apparently been considering divorce, not speaking
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: to each other while loading a truck might not be
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: that unusual. However, Charylyn's friend Nikki Schenneld once mentioned during
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: an interview that she noticed what she believed to be
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: an additional person. In the footage, which is available publicly,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: you can see separate sections which show a man wearing
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: a white shirt and a brown shirt, and even though
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: you can't see his face clearly, the assumption seems to
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: be that Bobby simply changed his shirt at some point
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: when he walked back into the house, but according to Nikki,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: there are a few frames where you can briefly see
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: your reflection in the truck's window, which simultaneously shows two
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: different men in a white shirt and a brown shirt.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, I haven't personally seen this part of the footage,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: so I can't say for certain, but I know that
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: law enforcement studied it extensively, and I've never heard them
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: bring up the possibility of another man being with Bobby
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: and Sherilyn when they left the house that day. You
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: could assume that this person traveled with the family to
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Latimer County and did something to them, But the problem
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: is that the truck was left there, so unless this
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: person met up with someone else who gave them a ride,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: how did they manage to get out of the area
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: Like the photo of Madison. I'm not sure the security
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: footage has any real relevance to the case, and people
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: might just be reading too much into it because the
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: family later went missing. I knew they believed their house
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: was haunted by spirits, but just because they were described
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: as being in a trance like state does not mean
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: they were possessed by demons or that there was anything
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: supernatural at work here.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: No.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: I think you're right, Jules when you talk about the
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: fact that they were already having issues that there's mental
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: health issues at play as well. It's not uncommon to
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: think that a couple could be loading the car on
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: a trip and be frustrated with each other, be tired,
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: be distressed, be preoccupied, be fixated on the details of
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: leaving on a trip. I mean, there's a lot of
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: reasons why they might be inn a quote trance like state,
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: maybe not engaging with each other as much. So I
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: think again, when you watch these videos, because you're looking
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: at it from a lens of something went wrong, something happened,
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: it's a lot easier to read into it and start
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: to analyze the behavior from a kind of a more
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: macab point of view. But if you were just watching it,
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: you might and you didn't know that they were missing,
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: you might be able to look at it and say, well,
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: clearly they're distressed, or clearly something's bothering them, or you
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: might actually say, look, they just seem like they're on
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: a mission to get the car packed up and get
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: the heck out of there. When you guys see these clips,
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: I know you said you didn't see the clips of
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: peop changing shirts, but is there a lot of support
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: that there could have been a third person there, because
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: that would cause a whole new dynamic to the case
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: if you were talking about three adults traveling with Madison
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: and not just the two.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Literally, the only person I've seen bring that up is
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Nicky Cherylyn's friend. I've never heard shre Beecham or anyone
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: from law enforcement bring up the possibility of a third person,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: so I think she's probably just trying to read into
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: something from watching the footage, trying to figure out what happened.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: But even though I've not personally seen it, I'm very
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: skeptical that there is an additional man there who climbed
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: into the truck with them. But theoretically, if the entire
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: family were victims of foul play from an outside party,
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: who could have been responsible. Well, the initial stages of
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: the investigation had a couple of potentially interesting suspects who
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: have all but been eliminated. There's Bobby's father, Bob Dan
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Jamison Senior, who sounds like a real piece of work.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: It sounds very unlikely that he was personally involved with
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: what happened, since he was not in the best of
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: health at that time. I had only two months after
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: the family went missing, but I would definitely be curious
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: to know more about this guy's backstory. According to his obituary,
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Bobby was Bob's only child, but we have allegations that
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Bob cheated his own son out of money, tried to
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: hit him with a car, and threatened to kill his
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: entire family. And I think it says a lot that
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: his wife, Starlett, decided to divorce him after four decades
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: of marriage and was the one who suggested that Bobby
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: put up the security cameras to protect himself. I have
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: no idea if Bob and Bobby always had a fractured
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: relationship or if it just wound up going bad near
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: the end. But even though Bob cut his son out
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: of his will, he still seemed to care enough about
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: his granddaughter to leave everything to her, though no one
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: expected Madison to be a missing person by the time
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: Bob passed away. It is interesting that Bobby had been
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: involved in no less than three lawsuits at the time
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: before he disappeared. His lawsuit for the injuries he sustained
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: in the accident sounds pretty reasonable, and of course Bobby
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: suited against his father and never got the chance to
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: be resolved. Sure love to know more details about why
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: he filed the lawsuit against the school district after Madison
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: was pulled out of school. After investigating their backgrounds, Sheriff
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Beecham once made a comment in which you referred to
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Bobby and Schrilyn as quote unquote scammers. I'm not sure
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: already meant by that, but since they could no longer work,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: perhaps they had started a racket where they would file
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: frivolous lawsuits as their means of generating income. If so,
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: I guess it's possible that their actions could have angered
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: the wrong people and led to them being murdered, but
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: there's no evidence to support this. We also have Kenneth Bellows,
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: the white supremacist boarder whom Cherlyn kicked out of the
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: house a few months before the disappearances, but it sounds
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: like he was in jail during the time period the
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: family went missing, which is about as strong an alibi
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: as you can get. I guess the only reason you
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: can't completely dismiss Bellow's involvement is because of that weird
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: anonymous phone call Nicki Shenhold received from a woman who
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: claimed that the family was murdered by a white supremacy group.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: I guess it's possible this group could have decided to
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: kill the Jamis since's revenge for Bellows being kicked out
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: of the house, But that's a pretty weak motive unless
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: they were following the Jamisons. How could the group know
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: they'd be at that particular remote area at that particular
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: time that.
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: This family decided to leave on this day, they're going
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: to this remote area and will be able to keep
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: them and get them away from other people. It's interesting
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: to me that Nicky seems to kind of be the
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: source of a lot of information in this case. Is
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: it just that she's the best friend of sherry Lynn
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: or that she happened to know their dynamics so well
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: that she's such a major player in this case.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Like she is Cherlyn's best friend, but
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know how often she was around the family,
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: like if she personally witnessed them, like display any of
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: this erratic behavior, or if she had any concerns about
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Madison safety. But I do know that it's Nicki who
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: keeps puishing forward the theories about them being the victims
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: of foul play, because she talked about this tip with
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: the White Supremacy group. She brought up this angle involving
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: the additional man in the truck, so I get the
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: impression that she legitimately DIDNY do not believe that Bobby
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: or chery Lynn would have been capable of harming their
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: own daughter before killing themselves, which.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: Is really interesting because supposedly she would be one of
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: the ones that knows them the best because she's one
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: of her best friends. It is kind of interesting that
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: if it was the White Supremacy group that they would go, oh,
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: we also know who her best friend is, Nikki, and
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: we're gonna call her, not mom, not someone that you
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: can look in the newspaper and tie them directly to
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: this family They call the best friend to give them
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: this clue about the ring. But I don't know. To me,
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: it seems like the murder suicide is so much more
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: likely than someone having that perfectly timed, opportunistic moment to
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: go after this family that all the leads. Yes, there's
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: several people, Like we talked about the White Supremacy group,
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: the issues with his dad and family kind of falling apart,
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: the idea that witchcraft and devil worshiping, those kinds of
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: things were discussed, or like at least turning to the
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: Satanic Bible for help with demon But all of that
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: would require, like you said, someone to watch this family
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: know that they were setting off to look at this
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: property and finding them at just the right time where
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: they've gotten out, taken a picture, returned to their truck,
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: and then they're able to isolate them and kill them.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: It's very elaborate and very calculated, almost to a point
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: of it just doesn't seem realistic.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: And we talked about this in our last episode. But
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: I know that Nikki claimed that the woman who made
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: the anomalous phone call accurately described it insignia on Bobby's ring,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: which not many people knew, which seemed to suggest that
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: she might have had knowledge of what happened. But again
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: that also does not solve the problem is how would
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: this white supremacy group have known that the Jamisons would
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: be in this area at that particular time.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: We also have the allegations from Sherilyn's mother that the
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: family was put on a hit list from some sort
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: of religious cult, but she's never provided any specific details
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: and I have no idea why she believed this. There
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: are technically no strong suspects or persons of interest in
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: this case, but once again, we really have no idea
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: if there was anyone else involved to begin with. It's
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: interesting to compare this case to the mcday family disappearance,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: which we discussed in our last episode. At the outset,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: there was some evidence to suggest that the mix Days
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: could have ran away and disappeared voluntarily, but unlike the Jamisons,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: the family did not have a history of erratic behavior,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: and there was nothing particularly unusual going on in their
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: lives at the time they went missing. However, because the
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: circumstances of the disappearance were so baffling, there was one
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: radio host who published a book about the case, which
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: painted a less than flattering portrayal of the mother, Summer
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: mixed Day, and suggested that she may have murdered her
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: husband and fled the country with her two boys. Well,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: of course, once the entire family's remains were found in
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: a shallow grave and it was clear that they were
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: all murdered by a third party, the book was pulled
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: from circulation, and the author even went so far as
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: to offer a refund to everyone who purchased it. So, obviously,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: I would be very hesitant of accusing Bobby or Cherylyn
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Jamison of killing their child or each other without definitive evidence.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: You can understand why the family's loved ones would be
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: pushing forward theories about religious cults and white supremacy groups
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: and whatnot, because I'm sure they would prefer not to
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: believe that Bobby or Shriylyn or both of them were
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: capable of orchestrating a murder suicide, not to mention that
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: if this is what actually happened, there's technically no way
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: to prove it, and it means this mystery will remain
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: unsolved forever without a resolution. If the family was murdered
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: by a third party, then at least their killers out
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: there somewhere who can be brought to justice and we
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: could potentially learn the full truth about what happened. That's
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: exactly what happened in the Mix staycase after the perpetrator
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: was arrested and convicted. But that sort of thing might
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: just not be possible here.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: Well, just think about it. I mean, I know I
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: brought up Andrea Yates on the last episode, but when
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: you think about her, there were sign and she was
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: capable of hurting her children and hurting herself, and still
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: nobody paid attention to that or helped her or took
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: heed of those morning signs, so they still didn't believe
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: she was capable of hurting her kids until she did it. Right.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: And so when you look at this and you talk
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: about a family, think about when someone completes suicide, the
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: gut instinct is, no, they couldn't have. They knew how
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: loved they were, they knew how bad we needed them.
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: They couldn't have done this. Look at other explanations, right,
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: because your heart doesn't want to believe that that's possible.
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: And so then exaggerate that or expand that onto three
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: individuals being deceased at the hands of one of those individuals,
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: possibly or both the parents, maybe killing the baby. But
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: you start to think about that like that just it
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: can't be humanly possible. This is their own offspring, this
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: is their own family. These are people that they loved.
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: They might hurt themselves, but they would never hurt the
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: other people. So I think the default grief response is,
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: please let it be anything but that, because it seems
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: so impossible, so inhumane, so out of character for anyone
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: to think about a family member doing that to somebody else. So,
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: while I understand there is a possibility for a third party.
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: I also understand where just the natural grief and trauma
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: aspect of what this case entails three people deceased, including
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: a baby, I could see where no one would want
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: to broach the subject of could it have been Bobby
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: or sherry Lynn, because it just doesn't seem like anyone
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: could do that to their own family. Yet historically we
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: know that actually family annihilations are not that uncommon.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: During online discussions of this case, I have seen the
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: phrase foller adeux thrown around, which is the French translation
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: for folly of two. It's also known as shared psychosis
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: and shared delusional disorder, which is what happens with symptoms
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: of a delusional belief are transmitted from one individual to another.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: If the Jamisons were suffering from this, this might explain
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: why Bobby and Sherilyn both expressed their belief that their
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: home was haunted by spirits. They also claimed that Madison
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: had been speaking to the ghost of a girl named Emily,
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: but it could have been something as harmless as a
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: six year old girl speaking with an imaginary friend, and
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: her parents thinking it was something supernatural. I know that
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: Jamison's friends and relatives believe that they believed that they
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: were making a move to a remote area of Latimer
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: County in order to repair their marriage and get a
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: fresh start. But honestly, it would not surprise me at
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: all if this entire decision was driven by the fact
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: that they believed their home was haunted and felt they
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: needed to get out of there. However, even though there
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: are a number of holes in the murdered by a
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: third party theory, there are still a number of things
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: about the murder suicide scenario which don't make much sense.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: If this is what happened, how would these events have
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: played out? After walking up a hill and taking a
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: photo of Madison next to a rock, what would compel
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: Bobby and sherilynd to walk back to their truck to
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: lock their dog, cell phone, and personal items inside. Why
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: would they then decide to take Madison and walk three
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: miles to a remote spot before they killed her and
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: took their own lives. If they used a gun, what
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: happened to it and what became of the brown briefcase
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Sherilyn loaded into the truck. I could see animals making
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: a small gun disappear, but could they really do the
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: same to an entire briefcase? None of the theories in
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: this case make one hundred percent complete sense, but at
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: the same time, you can't completely eliminate all of them either. Myself,
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: I think you can count me as being completely on
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: the fence with this one, as there are just too
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: many discrepancies in both the murder and suicide scenarios to
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: lean conclusively in either direction, regardless of which side you leaned.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: The biggest tragedy in this story is the fact that
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: an innocent six year old girl lost her life, even
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: though there's no indication that Madison was ever abused or mistreated.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: Living in that household while our parents were going through
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: all these different ordeals could not have been easy for
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: This is why everyone wonders what exactly was going through
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: Madison's mind when that cryptic final photograph was taken of her.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: It would be horrible enough if she was murdered by
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: an unknown perpetrator a short time after that photo was taken,
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: But if she lost her life at the hands of
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: one or both of her parents while alone in those woods,
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: then that's just too frightening and heartbreaking to contemplate. There
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: haven't been any serious developments in the investigation since the
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: family's remains were discovered eleven years ago, but if no
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: one else was involved, then there really isn't much that
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: can be done. However, if there is someone out there
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: who has gotten away with the murders of three people,
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: that they deserve to be brought to justice. If you
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: happen to have any information on the death of the
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: Jamison family, please contact the Latimer County Sheriff's Office at
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: nine one eight four sixty five two one sixty one.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: That's nine one eight four sixty five two one sixty one,
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: Jules Ashley. Any final thoughts in this case?
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: You know, the tragic thing in this case is, like
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: you said, Robin, there's a six year old little girl
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: and her parents who were deceased. If it was the
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: event of a murder suicide, and you think about the
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: tragic mental health state that had to be at play
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: here for that to occur. For a parent or parents
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: to think they needed to arm their daughter and themselves
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: to get out of whatever situation they were facing, that
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: is a major tragedy in and of itself, right, Maybe
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: the lack of care that was given to the parents,
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: maybe a lack of resources and support that they needed
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: when they were showing signs, right, everyone says, looking back,
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: you saw these signs, well, people should have intervened or
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: there should have been help provided. And if that's the
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: explanation of what actually happened to this little girl and
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: her parents, it's tragic in and of itself that the
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: parents were at that point where they were in a
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: place to harm their child. It's just pitiful. And then
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: you have this other side that were there these other
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: entities at play here? Was there someone from the witchcraft
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: or satanic community when the parents were reaching out to
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: kind of rid their house and demons? Were there people
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: who were part of the white supremacist group that were
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: after this family for their Native American history and indigenous culture?
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: Is it somebody who was upset with Bobby because of
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: the lawsuits he was filing. Was it someone who sherry
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: Lynn had frustrated or made mad while she was in
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: one of her depressive or bipolar states. It's just so
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: many leads, Like the sheriff said, you usually would kill
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: for these kinds of leads, right, give me all the leads.
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: But he said, when you look at this one, it's
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: almost like we have so many with no depth to
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: any of them. We're not getting anywhere with this case.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: It's so sad. You have a little six year old
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: girl whose life stopped in that moment when she had
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: her whole world in front of her, and two parents
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: that are also deceased that needed help and support, And
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: so my prayer is that there would be some way
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: to get answers or something could be discovered. But this
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: is one of those cases that almost seems as helpless
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: as they felt at the time, right of how would
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: you get any leads at this point unless there is
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: a perpetrator and unless they speak up or tell somebody something.
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: So overall, my heart's just broken for this little girl
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: and for her parents, no matter what the situation was.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: This is just one of those cases where the muddier
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: the water, the harder it is to see clearly what
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: actually happened. And each one of those things that actually
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: just illustrated is something that muddies the water further. So
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: in the end, we're left with all of these possibilities,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: but we don't really have any evidence to support any
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: of them. I don't conclusively know what happened. I would say, statistically,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: given all of the information that we have, if I
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: was to venture a guess I would say the most
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: likely but scenario would be a murder suicide, and that
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: the likely perpetrator, you know, it's Ashley suggested earlier would
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: be likely share all in, But we don't know that.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: We don't have evidence to support that either. All we
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: know is that there was a previous suicide attempt and
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: that clearly Sharlyn was having a mental health episode. She
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: was in a bad place with her bipolar disorder. We
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: don't know if they were taking medication, but there's still
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: so many unanswered questions that don't line up with that
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: as well. There's just nothing that can fully explain what
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: happened here, and it's so infuriating. I wish that we
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: had more information so that there would be some kind
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: of resolution for their families.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I talked about how this was the very first
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: disappeared episode I watched about fourteen years ago, and I
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: also watched it very closely to the mix Stay family
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: disappearance and became pretty obsessed with both of them and
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: cannot figure out what happened either of these families. But
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: like we mentioned, the McStay family disappearance had a conclusive
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: resolution where they found their bodies. They knew who did it,
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: who killed them, and what exactly happened. And then on
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: the exact same week they find the remains of the
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: Jamison family. But it only opens up more unanswered questions.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: We're no closer to solving it today than we were
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: back in two thousand and nine or twenty thirteen when
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: the remains were found. When you look at the big situation,
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: it would make more sense if this was a murder suicide,
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: particularly if Cherylyn did it. That maybe Bobby was genuine
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: about going out there to purchase a plot of land,
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: but for whatever reason, Cherylyn decided this would be a
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: good place to end it all. It does make more
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: sense than a foul play scenario because, like we talked about,
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: who would know that the Jamison's were out there? What
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: motive would someone have? Like why would someone take them
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: into the woods and kill them and then leave their
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: truck behind and their dog and thirty two thousand dollars
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: under the seat. But like we said, the suicide scenario
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: is not one hundred percent concrete either, because there are
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: a lot of unanswered questions. Why did they travel three
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: miles from the truck, would Bobby have been physically capable
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: of making it that far. And if they did, if
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: it was a murder suicide, how what was the cause
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: of death? Did they use a gun? Did the gun
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: just disappear? What happened to Sharean's briefcase, There are just
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: too many holes to say out without any certainty that
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: this was the result of a murdered suicide. But no
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: matter which way you look at it, you have to
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: feel bad for the entire family, particularly for Madison, who
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: sounds like she had a lot of difficulties being raised
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: in this household during her very short life. And the
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: most heartbreaking thing about it is that if the family
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: did this to themselves, we may never know for certain.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: And that's why I'm hoping that there is some additional
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: information out there, a piece of the puzzle we're missing,
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: to finally get some light shed on what actually happened
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: here and possibly a resolution.
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: about the Trailment Cold Patreon?
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, the Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: with us. On Patreon if you join our five dollars
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: tier Tier two. We also offer monthly bonus episodes in
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: which I talk about cases which are not featured on
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon,
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: and if you join our highest tier tier three, the
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer is
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: a audio commentary track over classic episodes of UNSAWD Mysteries,
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: where you can download an audio file and then boot
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: first episode that I did a commentary track over was
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: the episode featuring this case. So if you want to
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: download a commentary track in which I make more smart
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: Tier three.
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: So I want to let you know a little bit
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: about the Jewels and Nashty patreons. So there's early ad
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: Path Went Chili mini's, which are always over an hour,
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: so they're not very mini, but they're just too short
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: to turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing
• 56:59
  Speaker 4: the so we hope you'll check out those patreons will
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: link them in the show notes.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: So I want to thank you all for listening, and
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: any chance you have to share us on social media
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  Speaker 2: with a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciated.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: You can email us at the Pathwentchili at gmail dot com.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwin. So
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: until next time, be sure to bundle up because cold
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: trails and chili pass call for warm clothing.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy