Latest / Found-HER with Kimberley Hiebert / Finding Your Success

Transcript

Finding Your Success · Found-HER with Kimberley Hiebert

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Found Her, the podcast for women who build empires, break barriers, and blaze trails all while fighting themselves.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: These are bestie level conversations from behind the scenes.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: The real work, the messy middle, and the wins that last.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Kimberly Hebert, founder, franchise builder, wife, mom, and Grammy, and a woman who has done the inner work while building the outer winds.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Here we talk business, identity, relationships, and the kind of growth that cracks you open, then puts you back together.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Stronger, better.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: This is your space to rise as a founder and as your truest self.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Let's dive in.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back, besties.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really excited again today.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Always when I have a guest, I'm super excited.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: And every single time I say, You're gonna love her, but you are, you're gonna love her.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So today's guest is someone who has already done the hard work and now she's refusing to let success drain her.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Meet Sarah Khan, strategist, TEDx speaker.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I can't wait to find out about that.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, best-selling author and host of the Business Blasphemy Podcast.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Through her work at Niche Strategic, she guides professional women in midlife to reshape their business and leadership so success fits them, not the hustle culture.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Sarah's journey is remarkable.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: After decades in corporate, two of the big four and 14 years teaching in business school, teaching business school, pardon me, she pivoted into entrepreneurship and now serves women who've already proven themselves and are ready for the next chapter.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Her message is bold and unapologetic.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Build authority, reclaim energy, and lead from the truth of your life now, not from a blueprint written for somebody else.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thrilled to welcome Sarah to the Found Her podcast, where we'll dive into her story of stepping out of the rules, embracing midlife as an upgrade, and building businesses that sustains, not drains.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Sarah.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Woo! We're excited to have you.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to be here.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: What a wow, what a freaking amazing intro.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's wild when you hear your intro, hey.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: I feel so accomplished.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like going back and looking at your resume and going, Oh, I have done a few things.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's so nice.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like um, it's like receiving a nice little bouquet, you know, like because sometimes I think in the day-to-day we forget.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: You forget of like, yeah, you've done shit, you've accomplished shit, you know what you're talking about.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And holy crap, is that me?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I love it.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if you hear some paper shuffling, sorry, I do have uh some questions lined up, so I like to get myself kind of prepared.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: But Sarah, tell us a little bit more now in your own words about a little bit about yourself and about your founder journey.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, my founder journey.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: I okay, so I never wanted to be an entrepreneur.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was like the furthest thing from my mind.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Are you kidding me?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: I would rather just go to work, get my paycheck, come home, not worry about it.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: And like my brother is an entrepreneur, and all I was always like, You're absolutely insane.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why would you ever do this on purpose?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I was, you know, what I call the unicorn at work.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was somebody who did everything and excelled at all of it.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was the hype.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's I think that's what I just called my person off air.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: I said to you, my I called her my unicorn.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, my yeah, I know what that person is just able to do it all and and like really good, like really goodly.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that was kind of my goodly, I love it even more.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I I just found that you know, like I I I was so good at stuff, like why would I ever leave this?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And really, my story, like, there are so many instances throughout my career where I was like, I probably should have left then.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: I probably should have left then.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I was one of those people that's like, no, these things happen, and I just kind of carried on with it, took the abuse, what have you.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was really my second pregnancy and my second layoff during Mat Leave.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I was laid off the first time while on Matt Lee with my first, and then I was laid off again on Mat Leave with my second.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's and it was very rude.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it and the reason and the politics and the reasons, and and this second time, I was the highest rated person in the organization.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had the most popular, like it was just it was insane that they could find a reason to let me go.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know that sounds ridiculous, but that's that's really what it was.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm on Matt Leave, I lose my job.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the baby was born in November.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, my husband comes home boxing day, he's been laid off from his job.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and we were like, great, what do we do?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really when like, and I had been consulting on the side for years at this point.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was very ad hoc.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was very like, whenever someone wants something, I'll do it.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: But 2018 was the year where I was like, I really need to go all in on this.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I did, and it was a bit of a journey, but now looking back at it, it was the best decision I've ever made.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: To finally go out on my own.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that that's literally one of the my first questions was um, you spent years in corporate and kind of academia before stepping into your entrepreneur or your role as a strategist in entrepreneurship.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: What was the internal narrative that shifted?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Other than those were kind of some of the external pieces of like things how other people having control over your destiny, if you will.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what was the internal narrative that shifted uh that made you choose to take matters into your own hand?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't say that it shifted immediately, but it was definitely um a driving thought.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's it still took a few years to kind of consolidate itself in, you know, into what essentially is the TEDx talk.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: But the first thought I started to have around that time was despite the fact that I am like number one highest-rated employee, despite the fact that I have worked 60 hours a week regularly, despite the fact that I have done all of these things, I still wasn't valuable enough.
• 5:53
  unknown: Wow.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so now it is.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: You just said that despite the fact that I was number one, despite the fact that I had given 60 hours a week, so there the the company knew your commitment.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: You owned your role like it was yours, you were number one.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's still no security for you in that.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's no payoff for you in that.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's like crazy, hey.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's I mean, I think it's something that we're conditioned to really kind of believe as women, particularly, right?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, especially women of a certain age, right?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a gen Xer.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: It like your your your output, your productivity, like what you give.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: We are service-hearted women, and so we kind of we can conflate our worth with our productivity or our output.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, and that is something that I have struggled with my whole life, and and especially over the last few years, just kind of unlearning all of that.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: That you know, it doesn't matter how much I do, that's not the worth of my of my character.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I've it's actually that's a hard lesson.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's a hard lesson for everybody, and I think every human has to go through that journey, right?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Of understanding that, but it is hard for women, especially.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it became even more important to me to stand in that watching my teenager.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: She's 17 as of yesterday.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh and she is also like me, right?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like that apple did not fall far from this tree.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: But she also, like I had I actually had these exact conversations with her over the week, and I said, baby, your your worth is not tied to a grade, it is not tied to how quickly you perform in class.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: It is not, you know, and I and I realized like if I really want my girls to break that belief, I really need to stand in it.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just it's so I don't want them to have to go through this entire life journey and like get to 50 before you realize, oh, I'm actually a worthwhile human all my own, right?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like just in that of itself.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: That is a that is a huge life lesson.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: And usually somebody has to have an interaction of some kind of like hard cement wall.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it was a run-in with cancer, right?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Took me out.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was uh a social worker, like I just retired from social work.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: I had two businesses, I was doing Ironmans, I had grandchildren, like I, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I I call this like a rewarded fueled by trauma, but rewarded by society because this and this this need or desire or whatever it was, that that's what you do.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: You just keep doing more and more and more, and you just keep that's just what you do.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, and society rewards that, right?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: They give you, they give you races, they give you accolades, you get the praise, you get whatever it is, more money, recognize whatever it is, right?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I had some like really severe kind of trauma that I that was really fueling that desire to just kind of keep again finding my worth in producing, whatever, even if it was personal goals, like my gosh, I was you know, I trained for three Ironmans, like while running two businesses, and you know what I mean?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you just yeah, now I think, who was that?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, this isn't about this isn't about me, but this is about that message and that story.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: So let me tell, take me inside of your TED talk, the hidden cost of being a unicorn.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Who okay?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, a little bit of backstory.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I had applied to TED five times, been rejected every single time.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and this is despite having worked with you know speaking coaches and former TED producers, and like, you know, you really invested in yourself for that.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Really invested.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I wanted a TED talk so bad, and I had all of the perfect talks crafted out.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Nice, and then I got so frustrated because none of them were getting picked up, and I got really mad.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: We were moving actually to Ontario around this time, and I got really mad one day and I was like, screw it, I'm just gonna apply for whatever.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna, this is what I want to talk about.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the one that got picked up.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a lesson there too.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know what you want to talk about already.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to, anyway.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: So the the talk itself actually is this like is this like sorry, I just want to I just want to touch there.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Is this like you try to like get something so polished and perfect, but then when you were just frustrated and you're like frick it, this is what it is.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, there's a little lesson in there.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's the lesson in there, right?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Huge lesson.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: You already know, you already know.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Go with what you know.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: But it was really the story of, and it kind of segues nicely from what we've just talked about.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: I spent because of a a very big piece of trauma that I won't go into, you can watch the TED talk and find out.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, trauma really kind of fueled this desire in me to do whatever it took for people to like me and want me around.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that manifested itself as what can I do for you?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: What can I do for you?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: What can I do for you?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that kind of you know leads into the into the career of like being the unicorn and still not being of a value.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was my journey of you know, how do you uncouple yourself from the belief that your worth lies in how much you can do for other people?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And letting go of this belief that they are in charge of telling you what your value is.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so just I'm I just got shivers.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: So just as a side note, be sure to send us the link to that TED Talk.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And for all the listeners, the link will be on the show notes.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Go, that's where you want to direct people because I feel like that's I didn't watch it yet.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because I like I said at the beginning before we uh started recording, I really wanted to get to know you in this moment.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh because you and I have met, you know, uh through a few circles, never really, you know, in events, but never really have had a time to sit down and connect.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I thought, what a better way than to put it uh in on a recording.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Child by fire, right?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, I can't wait to.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go download that, listen, and watch that back.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me then with the women you work with.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So these are women that are are are like you, they were like you, right?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of the thing is we we kind of want to help those that are where we were.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: How long have you been doing that?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: I would say in earnest since since 2010, like just sort of informally, but formally since 2018.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you've been and you've been so you must have helped a lot of women.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: What's one myth?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh one myth with women who've hit six six figures.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, I get tongue-tied, yet they feel unseen and exhausted.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: What's one myth about success that you're committed to busting?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would have to honestly say that if you are still accomplished and you have success, but you don't feel fulfilled, it's very likely because your version of success isn't what you truly believe it is.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're chasing a version of success that somebody else has told you the definition for.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you haven't taken the time to sit down and go, but is this what I actually want?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: So where do you think then we get the definition of success from?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, from the Joneses.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, social media.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me more about that.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Friends.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you think about it, we don't we don't ever really sit down and go, well, what does success look like for me?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: We grow up with uh a perception of what it looks like to be successful.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: We are are bombarded with uh success, uh like instant insta Instagram level success, you know, all the time.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is what an influencer looks like, this is the kind of car you should drive, this is what your your feed should look like, like all of that stuff, right?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: We are bombarded with, you know, these are the types of women that become successful.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you must look like them, sound like them, walk like them.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: We and then our friends, our friends and family, like the the level of or the type of success they've attained, we look at that and we think, oh gosh, well, I don't have that, so that's got to be the next thing I get.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I will be completely honest, even doing the work that I do, I fall prey to it sometimes, right?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's it's it's sitting back and going, wait a second, but that wouldn't make me happy.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think the biggest lesson that I've learned in working with women is that I'm sorry, my brain just completely emptied itself.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I had a point to make.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Perimenopause.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Menopause.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Perimenopause.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that happens to me.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: It'll come back.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: It'll come back though.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's gone.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'll start I'll start tomorrow.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll because you triggered something in me because in uh in in the idea of success.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: So this past week I was at another event, and one of the things that I in my journey right now as a founder, one of the things I'm trying to answer is what is enough?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking for investors, I'm putting together an investor deck, and I'm and I'm trying to figure out how much, what is enough, what do we need?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: What is enough?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so this question of enoughness keeps circling, right?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I say to my husband, like, 100 grand, well, that's that's not enough.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like 300 grand, well, I mean, that's oh that'll help for, you know, whatever, one year, two years, whatever it is, right?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been in this pursuit of what is enough.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm at this event the other day, and you know, they do the little child kind of thing, right?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Where the little picture of yourself of little you and blah, blah, blah.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: And all of a sudden I had this like ding, um, that enough.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody, no, somebody, I think it was a financial coach was speaking, and so she said this because she works with women with finances, right?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And she does like uh therapy, financial therapy, not accounting, financial therapy.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, most people are searching and don't know, they think enough is a number, yeah, but it's actually a feeling.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, right?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you hang on to that for a minute and you think, that's powerful.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: So then it makes me wonder with success.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: We we look, I know, because I feel like you know, I'm that woman that you know was striving and striving years ago, the old me.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Looking, I wasn't necessarily like, I want to have, you know, eight million dollars and all these cars and blah, blah, blah.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: There was a level of success or something that I was looking for outwardly, but I think it was a drive internally.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's like something you're seeking internally.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is that your experience?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and and I remembered what I was gonna say.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for jogging that.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I think it is.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think that we like one.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: So when I first started, I worked a lot on the operations side.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I was an operations strategist and now I've moved into like leadership.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the things that I would see a lot is the number, like you said, right?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like women saying, well, I have to make 10 grand a month.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: 10 grand a month is like the minimum.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and when I started pushing and saying, like, well, why that specific amount?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I had to kind of um help my clients unlearn is you're successful if you're paying your bills.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like you are successful if you break even and you never make any money.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's success because most people don't even get there.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Most people operate in a deficit as a business owner.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think there there is this feeling, but I think the feeling stems from, again, not enoughness of ourselves, right?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like my value is is tied to a number of some kind, whether it's financial, number of followers, number, like, you know, whatever, like the the promotion I get, the title I have.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that uh what people tend to forget is they they look at these people who have attained whatever number they're they're going for.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And we're never really shown what it takes.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in the back end of of over 100 businesses, and I have seen the seven-figure businesses, the eight, the six, all of it.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't know what it took that person to not only get to that number, but to also then maintain it.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's there's a popular coach right now who did a people will probably know who I'm talking about.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna name names, but uh, he did a webinar a little while ago and he made millions of dollars.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: But what they don't know is he also spent four million on ads for that particular web.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see what I mean?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, we don't know.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know this, I know people, I don't even know that one, but I know people very much in that same similar spot.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's this feeling of like, like, what hole is that 10 grand a month or six figures a year gonna plug for you?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is it that you actually like?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what it takes to maintain that number?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because if if you did and it's completely at odds with your values and what you actually the lifestyle you actually want to live now, yeah, you're A, not gonna make it, or B, if you do, you're gonna hate it and you're gonna burn your business down at every opportunity.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Fair enough.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, uh, love this conversation.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to be mindful of time because I know we could talk forever.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: What's one decision you made?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think you may have already kind of touched on this, that you felt was super risky at the time.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna say a decision that you made that you felt that was super risky at the time, but in hiding sight it ended up being just what you needed.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so last year shutting everything down.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, what?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, after my uh TEDx talk, um, I had this sort of epiphany and I just stopped working with all clients at that point.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it was around actually wasn't it was early this year, it was January of this year that it was official.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I closed all of my offers.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: I finished up with all of my clients, and I was like, you know what?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I need to take a break.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really hard given the fact that we had just moved.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my husband was starting a new job.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there was all of this stuff going on.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I can't, I can't do this anymore.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't, I don't want to do it this way anymore.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you didn't like how your business was had developed and turned into or yeah, it was and it was just the the kinds of things that I had bought into.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like just just you know, I'd I'd invested with some coaches over the the last year in 2024, and I just you know, I wasn't I wasn't feeling like it was a good alignment.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, you know what, I don't want to burn anything down, but I definitely want to take a break.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I I took a break and it was terrifying.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because your income turns off.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it was zero income.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: And there was it takes a lot of momentum to get a business going.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: It does, and to like, and and you feel like if I stop, it's it's all gonna fall apart.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I I did have that fear, and there was, you know, every week it was like, okay, do I start again?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do I start again?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to give myself the permission to be like, you know what?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm gonna start back up when it feels right.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And when I tell you that that was the best decision I've ever made, because I have more clarity now than I've ever had, and I am doing things now that I have wanted to do for years, but just didn't have the courage to do.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, can you tell?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm getting prickly, I'm getting an offlash.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's amazing.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's really exciting.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's really exciting because you took the brave step of shutting it down when you didn't know what was next.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so are you in a rebuild phase?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is that how you would yeah?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of in a rebuild.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like the big thing that I did differently was I I did take a job in May of this year.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm I'm working as a chief of staff as a medical clinic, and my employer is incredibly supportive of my business.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, she gives me the time to like have a day to like just think about the business.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so the difference this time is that I'm building it more intentionally versus building it out of necessity.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's allowing me to do what I want.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: That, okay, let's talk about that for a second because many people, especially during COVID, many businesses kind of erupted out of desperation or out of pivot, the word pivot, right?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Can no longer do this, so you gotta do this.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm not judging anybody.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know we all gotta make money, like there's a cycle of life here, but there is a very different energy because my husband and I in this business, so we're in our fourth business.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: This is our legacy business, and we are building a huge uh franchise brand, okay?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm claiming a hundred million dollars.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm stepping out, not like not revenue for me, but like the value of the brand.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm in it for a bit, but we are building this intentionally, very intentional.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: The creation of it, all of that, versus another business that was like circumstantial or out of need, or like him and his sister bought their family business.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: They he built it with his dad, but him and his the all of a sudden his parents had a medical emergency many, many years ago, like 25 years ago, and him and his sister bought the business, but that was an intentional partnership.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: So there was no alignment.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: So guess what happened after 25 years?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's talks at burnt out families for you know what I mean?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there is a very different energy when you are intentionally putting something together versus like that.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's not desperate energy, but it is an anxious energy.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: It is because you want it to work.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I don't again, I don't judge anybody for doing it.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like we all have bills to pay, right?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so and that's one of the reasons I to I took the job was because I wanted the freedom, like the emotional freedom to be able to think about it without worrying about because I tried it without like when I when I shut everything down in January, I was like, okay, you know what?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: I I will figure it out.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And what I found was I was pushing, doing things that everybody else was telling me to do.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, but this is the whole reason I stopped because I don't want to do it the way you're telling me to do it.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't believe it has to be done that way.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so the rebuild has been so freeing because I'm doing it, like every decision I make, I sit with myself and I go, Can you do this long term?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is this something that you can sustain emotionally, mentally, your capacity?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've given more time to like the priorities of my life, which are my kids and my family.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the whole build just feels so joyous again.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was what was missing from the business for so long.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm wondering is some of it, and I I don't think going, I don't think I don't think going back to in-person, going part uh employment with uh a company or whatever that aligns.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that that's necessarily taken a step back.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it can really bring a dimension and an energy into the creation of what you're creating because you get you know kind of instant feedback and interaction from the world.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know what how you did business before, if it was primarily online, which is all online, yeah.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: A whole heavy beast unto itself.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: So heavy.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: What how courageous of you! And I'm excited for the future uh that you continue to build and navigate.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, what are some of um your your phrase, lead from who you are, not who you were expected to be?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the oldest expectations you had to uproot?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, um, what it means to show up as a as a professional, what it means to show up as a woman.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because when you're in corporate, right?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like you hide every other aspect of yourself.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: You are a professional, you are a hard ass, you know, it's particularly the line of um work that I was in.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: I started in corporate restructuring, so you know, you you got to be a little bit aggressive.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: People don't like that directness in us women.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: They do not.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: And in corporate, you have to be that.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be, you know, so having to learn that that was okay, having to like there are so many um like the different hats that you wear, right?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like finding who actually sits under all of those hats was something that I really had to had to take time to figure out.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: So with women, um, as it being your experience, one of the things my husband and I wrote a book um about it's called Awkward Family Dinners, a small little book we wrote just about our experience as family business owners.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: And uh one of the things that we talked about in the book, uh, and that I actually talk about a lot, is uh because my husband is he's a 65-year-old white dude, privileged white dude.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: So how he builds a business is very different than how I build a business, right?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a social worker, I have value diversity, collaboration, difference of opinions, all that kind of stuff, right?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so we can clash quite a bit in terms of, but one of the things that we wrote about in the book is when embracing leadership, especially in a business, it really requires you to care about the people.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: And in our experience in family business, there's a lack of vulnerability.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Leaders are afraid, especially female leaders are afraid that if we're vulnerable and we address the humanness that our superiors will think we're just hippies, just all peace, love, and hippies, and nobody's gonna actually get any real work done and we're losing productivity and profit and all that.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Is that would you would you say that that's kind of been your experience with the clients you've worked with with your own experience?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, I think so.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think that I mean from from a personal perspective, I think that the pendulum's kind of gone too far in the other direction, right?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like in order to be uh in order to be like a like a a vulnerable female business owner and lean it lean into that side of yourself, you have to be all love and light, and you can't be even the tiniest bit masculine.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and if you go to the other side and you're super masculine, then you know you're you're not feminine enough.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think that we are our most powerful when we can embrace both sides.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I can be soft and vulnerable, but I can also be assertive as heck, right?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: And tell you exactly what I need.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's the balance.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's what I'm learning in this stage, is the balance because I am I am very much a visionary, um, and we're in build phase.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: So not only am I visionary in build face, I'm very like go, go, go, go, go.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and my husband is the complete opposite.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: I've actually had to fire him twice from different roles as a founder.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: He loves it, don't get me wrong.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I don't care.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Call me the fucking janitor.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't give a shit.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like he we call him the business princess now, right?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, move over, we got business to do, right?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: But also as partners, that can be that drive, that you know, it can be too much, right?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: I have to remember, right?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's a feminine energy also to my staff, my team, right?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: My directness, you're gonna laugh at this.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: The majority of my team, uh, I hope they don't listen.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they'll listen, they get it.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: They I tell them this all we talk about this all.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: They are between like 32 to 38 females, 30 females, three of them, and they're four of them now, actually.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: And um, they are learning.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: So when I give them a thumbs up from a message that they've given me, they're offended, they think I hate them.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've yeah, I've heard about this.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah, it's like the emojis are are passive aggressive somehow, or like the period is passive aggressive.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I learned grammar in school.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so sorry.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I said.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really funny that they're educating me, but at the same time, I'm saying to them, you know, I understand your sensitivity and you want to be, you know, acknowledge you're special, but I can't I can't run a business where I have to every five seconds stop and tell you how special you are.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: You need to know that when I give you a thumbs up, I mean that's great.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's keep the ball rolling.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we're both learning this, like, anyway, it's just it's just kind of funny.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what what okay, fine?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I just gotta okay.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: I have one final question, then I want to go into the lightning round fun stuff.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: But finally, for our found her listeners who are doing the work to lead differently, what's one bold question you would want them to ask themselves this week?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: What's the most important boundary you can hold this week?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: With yourself.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh not with other people, with yourself.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that that means holding a boundary with others, but for yourself, but most of the time it means like, what are you actually going to hold yourself accountable to?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because we like to let ourselves off the hook and then torture ourselves after the fact, right?
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, okay.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna let that uh ruminate and we're gonna pull that as a clip, I think, and have people respond.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think I love it.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: So now we're just gonna go into some lightning round, learn a little bit of fun stuff about Sarah, okay?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Quick quick questions.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Morning person or night owl?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Both.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, both.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't sleep.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: You don't sleep.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Sleep isn't, I love sleep now.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, what's your what's your go-to coffee order?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Caramel Macchiato, Extra Hot Oat Milk.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Favorite book you'd recommend right now that isn't business strategy.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my my daughter recommended some young adult novels for me.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: So the Shadow and Bones series and the Six of Crows series.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: All of them.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, nice.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: One thing you'd never delegate because you just love doing it.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, my messaging.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: No one can no one can emulate my voice.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: I I hear you on that.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you had a dragon, what would you name it?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh Hot Pockets.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Hot Pockets.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: What's your favorite comfort snack?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Salty, buttery popcorn.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: High five on that.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Favorite way to spend a weekend off?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh coloring, believe it or not.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's my new thing.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: I used to, when I was a practicing social worker, that's how I would process many things.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's the only thing that shuts my brain off.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you could send a message to your 20-year-old self, what would it be?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: But in one word.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Relax.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I like it.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: I like it.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so where can thank you so much for your time?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe 30 minutes has already gone by.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, see how fast that goes.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, how can people find you?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let us know.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I am on all the socials as Sarah Con Out Loud.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: So come hang out.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I've got a substack, same name, Sarah Khan Out Loud.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, awesome.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being here, Sarah.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Found Her podcast.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: If you've enjoyed it, please, please, please leave me a review.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: And more importantly, please share with your business bestie.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: You can join our newsletter, find me on Instagram, all the places.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to hear your feedback and connect with you during your journey of building your legacy.