Latest / The Curve / RTC61: How to invest during a recession with Izzy Truman

Transcript

RTC61: How to invest during a recession with Izzy Truman · The Curve

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Welcome to the Curve Podcast, a conversation for women who want to learn more about money,
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their money for the future they want to have.
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We're all busy in the pursuit for financial confidence
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and increasing your wealth should be a simple one.
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This podcast is for women to learn about investing in a non-scary or intimidating way.
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With short episodes, you'll have time to learn, digest and understand
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everything to do with the world of investing.
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So thank you for being here and for listening.
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Because together we really can raise the curve.
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Here we are.
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Take a leaven, or take a crown right.
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We need to give some context as to what's happened here.
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Because there is then, I want to say maybe seven different attempts to try to get
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as each woman who is currently broadcasting live from LA.
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Are you still in LA?
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I'm in LA, but I was in London when we first began talking to you.
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I was going to say she's moved to countries that told us to get help technical sorted.
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But we've got Izzy from Afterwork Drinks.
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So Izzy is a fellow Kiwi, which is really great for us.
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And also just a stunning, talented podcaster who's just living her best life around the world.
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So thanks so much for coming on our pod.
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Thanks for having me.
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I'm a big fan.
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Oh, thank you.
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I'm already sweating.
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I don't think it works.
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A big fan of the pod.
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I actually, for honest, hadn't properly listened to it until the start of this year.
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Now I run out of it.
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I'm like waiting for the next one, waiting for the weekly digest.
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Oh, listen.
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Less than an hour's of more episodes.
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I can't keep up.
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Have you gone back to like older episodes?
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Like, have you gone from the start and learnt from the beginning?
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I haven't gone from the start start, but I have flipped through and clicked on specific ones
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that I thought I'd find really interesting.
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Like I found the one you did with the Maori millionaire.
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Really interesting.
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Isn't she just an absolutely beautiful and inspiring human?
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I could have chatted to her for so many more hours.
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Yeah, she was incredible.
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Yeah.
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And then I send my sister all of your stuff and telling her that she can be the next Maori millionaire,
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sending her that podcast.
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Oh, I love that because she's only 21.
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I was going to say as well for a lot of people who start listening to our podcast
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like halfway through.
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The way that we recorded it from the beginning was when I knew not even what a stock was.
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It was so, so basic, but I think if you've just started listening to this podcast
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and you don't want to buy an online course, but you're also kind of like,
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I can't get what they're talking about, but not 100% go back and binge from the beginning
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because it's basically like a course.
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And honestly, my wife said this before, my dad.
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I mean, I was horrendous growing up with money like so, so privileged and unaware
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and just my dad tried everything to get through to me and nothing worked.
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Now, I still feel like I have so much to learn, but I think I have the fundamental
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that sounds so cliché, but building blocks so that when people are talking about money
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or finance, I can at least listen and start asking questions and be a part of the conversation
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before that I just tune out.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And a lot of people do and it's like because it is so...
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I just thought like it was just no point in trying to even engage.
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So it's nice to be at a place where I feel like I've learned a lot.
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I felt the exact same way.
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It's even interesting.
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I'm kind of at the start of this journey of learning about investing and more about money
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and feeling like it is in my control.
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Sometimes I will genuinely be like scared of spending as if it's someone else
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that like takes my money and walks outside and goes shopping.
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Like I feel like it's so out of my control.
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And I feel like even just being at the start of this investing journey,
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like the small things, like I can watch succession now and understand
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what they're talking about so much with the sheer price dropping.
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And I love it.
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And I'm needing to keep the board happy and why that matters so much.
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And also now with headlines as well.
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You news headlines, you can be like, I actually, I know that or I'm not on to freak out
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or I know what that means.
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Or yeah, you can have a better understanding, which is great.
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So is it...
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Can you talk to us about Afterwork Drinks?
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Yes, I'd love to hear.
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Because we're just like, we love the pod as well with big fans.
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We'd love to hear about, you know, your journey, podcasting,
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about you as a person before we dive into too much money chat.
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So Afterwork Drinks started on a bit of a whim.
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Me and my best friend Grace, who I had, my feeling you best friend.
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Basically, I moved to Sydney for work and we were both working at the Harper's Bazaar office
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as editors there.
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And we became really good friends, really fast friends.
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And we would kind of go to work events together
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and we would bounce off each other a lot and kind of we would have these conversations
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where we were just interested in the same things.
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And then we could also like be quite witty and funny when we got together in a room
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and had a few drinks.
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As like most best friends can.
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And then it was like the start.
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All of a sudden to go to a Canadian.
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Yeah.
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So you had one drink.
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I was so funny.
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It was literally that meme, like we should start two best friends get together
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and be like, we should start a podcast.
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And then we basically did on, yeah, just a whim.
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Like had no editor, no idea what we were doing.
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And we just released, we did a first episode as a draft.
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And then we just released it and we were like, fuck it.
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And that was like five years ago now.
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So we never was just a side project.
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We have our full time jobs.
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We're still both journalists.
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It's just something we do to come together.
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And it's been really nice because it's kind of been this constant thing over the years of.
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Both of our lives have changed a lot.
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We're working full time in Sydney.
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We both eventually went freelance and moved to London together.
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Now I live in LA and it's just been like this constant thing in our friendship
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where we come together and chat about kind of anything that interests us.
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So it can be pop culture.
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It can be celebrity stuff.
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It can be just like wider news stuff.
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It can be books, films.
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It can be really silly.
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And sometimes it can be serious.
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And yeah, I can't actually believe it's been going for this long.
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Do you mind me asking what kind of downloads you get?
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Because five years is a long time to stick to something.
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I think someone said to me the other day,
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most podcasts only get to 20 episodes and then people give up.
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And you must have like hundreds of them.
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Like how many?
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How many people listen to this?
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Because you wouldn't keep going if nobody was listening.
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You just call your friend and have a call, you know?
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Yeah, I mean it varies.
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But we generally have about 30,000 a week.
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It's incredible.
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And it's split mostly in Australia.
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So 70% in Australia, 10% in New Zealand,
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10% in the UK and the US.
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And then there was a lot of things.
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But it's really funny because we never,
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we don't really check the stats.
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But when we will, we'll have listeners and like really,
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really rogue locations.
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And we're just,
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it just feels really funny to hear them listen to our shit talk
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and like it was beckost on or something.
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Yeah, yeah.
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We did the same thing the other day.
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I can't remember what some of them were, but they were,
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it was so fascinating.
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In fact, I might actually quickly get it out.
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It was so interesting.
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I was like, holy shit.
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Friends come up to me.
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Friends come up to me.
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And Argentina.
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Oh, here we go.
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United Arab Emirates.
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It was like holy shit.
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Cool.
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Yeah.
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But you kind of forget when you're talking that people are listening.
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You know, you just kind of start hearing shit.
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And then you realize,
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oh, they're actually people that are listening.
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And it's not until like friends come to you,
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that episode of it.
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Oh, gosh.
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That's right.
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That one.
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Well, can you imagine like being drunk,
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because we took that very seriously.
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We took our branding very seriously.
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We would drink during, like basically before and during every episode.
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And sometimes one time we got on to that.
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We've been through various phases with what we drink.
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And one time we got into martinis,
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which are very strong.
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So by about like halfway through the episode, I'm slurring.
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You don't know what's coming out of your mouth.
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And then you had in your five years of like backlog of you drunk.
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Oh, my gosh.
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Oh, we had a meeting the other day, like quite a serious business meeting.
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And I hadn't really eaten much that day.
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Oh, my gosh.
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And I had two drinks.
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And on Monday, but it was like,
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I was like, what's this meeting in our calendar?
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Who are we meeting?
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She was like, do you not remember that entire conversation
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from the meeting on Friday?
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And I was like, nope.
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It was like a follow up for the meeting.
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And I was like, good thing I took notes because usually soft does.
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I ordered a giant pizza for myself with this meeting.
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So I'm feeling like, would anyone else like some pizza?
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She's like, hoon the whole thing.
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I was like, no, I think you need that, babe.
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That would be terrifying though,
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for that to be recorded for years and years and to not have any.
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Like to kind of forget the stuff you've almost admitted drunk.
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And then people are like,
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we're just your opinions change over that time.
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You grow up.
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Like when we started this, I wasn't 30.
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I was with, I had like a completely different relationship
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to break up on the podcast.
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Like moved countries twice.
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I don't know.
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You grow and change a lot.
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But I hope that, I mean, people still go back
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and listen from the start and seem to be still with us.
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Are you, so it's not your full-time job.
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You make money via writing as a journalist for different publications.
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The podcast was always kind of just a hobby.
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And then we actually launched a Patreon a couple of years ago.
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So now we have a free episode that goes out
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and then another episode that goes out to subscribe as only.
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So now we do like two episodes a week where one is free.
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And I mean, the premise is like,
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we're not as drunk in the first one.
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And we're more drunk in the second one.
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So it's more silly, funny, kind of more personal stories.
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And those people who subscribe into that because it's kind of confusing.
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I'm sure you guys feel the same.
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You're both really good friends.
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You have this podcast with this topic.
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But at the same time, people I do, I think, do tune in
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because they like your dynamic and they like your personalities
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and they like hearing about you.
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You could hear finance advice from other areas.
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So I think the second one became just like,
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that's our free for all.
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That's our silly, we'll just chat shit about like,
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much tea for an entire episode.
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For us being journalists.
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And having these jobs, you just, you kind of have to,
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you do sort of have to watch what you say a bit.
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It's happened before where we've talked shit about a celebrity
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and then had to interview them a few weeks later for a deferred jobs.
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And then you're like, of course, the celebrity's not going to go back
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and listen to this, but it does feel pretty bad to have on the record
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that you don't think they're a good actor.
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But yeah, so we both write for various publications.
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And then we do, I mean, I didn't until recently,
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but both of us do a bit of brand consulting as well.
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Does it feel stressful having lumpy or slightly more inconsistent income
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to if you were working in a full-time job or you were still employed
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at a big publication?
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I have been super lucky because I have just ongoing, I mean,
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both of us, but speaking personally, like, I have ongoing publications
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that I've worked with for a long time.
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So it's kind of similar to having, to knowing that you have confirmed work
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every month.
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And then also the podcast does really help with that because the podcast
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income is consistent.
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And if all else failed, I could live off that income.
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It is, I think what I've been finding hard since I've been doing the
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Curve Classroom and trying to be better with my money is the way it comes in.
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So I don't get one lump sum every month that I can like pay my bills,
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pay my rent, put some money into investing, and then have a pool of money
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that I spend each week and kind of divide that out across the weeks of the month.
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Instead, it all comes in at kind of different or like the podcast comes in
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on the first of the month for one of our advertisers,
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Patreon Cubs and on the fifth, I get paid on the fifteenth by another person.
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Yeah, we get there from a lot of people being like,
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okay, it's all well and good that you say and be consistently and regularly
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and you know, set up an automatic payment,
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but it's like their freelancers or yeah, like yourselves where you've got income
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coming in different times of the month.
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And you don't know how much it's going to be sometimes.
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And yeah, what your expenses are going to be.
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So it does make it difficult, definitely.
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I think that's also the new world that we're living in.
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I think there was some statistic that I read where our parents generation
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had an average of three jobs in their lifetime.
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In their lifetime.
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And ours is something like 16.
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It's for increasing.
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16.
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Yeah.
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And it's a lot, don't we?
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But it's like, it's crazy how that's reality.
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People want to have variety.
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They want flexibility.
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They want to kind of do what they're passionate about where their values are.
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And yeah, that means kind of, you know, for a lot of people working for yourself
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and being freelance and contracting and yeah.
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It's the worst job ever on his head.
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Well, like maybe the lowest paying job.
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I think mine was being dishammed by cleaning dishes.
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Yeah, I've been a kitchen hat.
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I've done so many different jobs.
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So I, okay.
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So one of my favorites is I worked at Wild Bean Cafe at BP.
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Oh, my God.
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Oh, I would pay serious money to come and see you in that uniform now.
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With a little uniform.
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I had like a flat face.
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Oh, that is such gold.
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Um, so I was, I was there bright and early putting those butter chicken pies in the oven,
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stealing the butter chicken pies.
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I was always pretending I was sick.
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So I could leave early.
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And I knew that my manager would watch the kitchen.
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I leave me.
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I knew she'd like watch the screens to see if I actually was sick or not.
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So I'd kind of like.
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So you'd be over and hold my stomach.
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Oh, my God.
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I'm sorry.
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It's a party I need to go to.
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Um, so I worked there.
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I went to pack and save as a checkout operator for ages.
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I was at high school.
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Would you rather marry the person you lost your virginity to?
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Or do your first job for the rest of your life?
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Definitely marry the guy lost my virginity.
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Oh, he's hot and cool.
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And actually, probably it was really.
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Oh, I got my first job.
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First job hands down.
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Yeah.
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Really?
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Yeah.
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I think my first job was the pack pack and save checkout operator.
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I would do that as well.
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I'd definitely do that.
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And you do that instead of marrying.
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Oh, my God.
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I really love you.
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I totally marry him.
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He's so hot and like really cool.
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And he wants to do it actively.
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I peace of dog.
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Oh, gosh.
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All right.
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So you've been doing the curve classroom.
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Have you been finding?
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Yeah.
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I've been loving it.
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But my friend who's also doing it was like, you must ask for the cuskin care routine.
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And I was like, you're really taking away.
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She does have a very beautiful complexion.
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Oh, I've got a way to make up.
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And I'm like, oh, I just, you look so good.
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It goes in waves.
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Thank you.
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So, okay.
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I feel like so classroom.
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You're doing it.
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You're a student.
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We're proud of you in a non condescending way.
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Sorry.
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That came out quite condescending.
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But like, you know, to actually commit to doing it, I think is hard.
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Because you have to be willing to sacrifice going out with your friends on a Friday.
14:48
Yeah.
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Because everyone's working.
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So when are you going to have time?
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And so many people were like, I want to learn.
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I want to learn.
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But then they don't.
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Or they don't put in the time and effort.
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And so, yeah, so stoked for everyone during the classroom that they've actually sat down taking the time and effort.
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Yeah.
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So an old work made of mine in the live you guys were doing.
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I saw her name.
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And I texted her.
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I was like, I sent her a photo.
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It was just like, hey, we're both so cool.
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And my other friend was doing the exact, this course at the exact same time, which I didn't know as well.
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She lives in New York.
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Really?
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And my other best friend did it last time.
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You guys are killing it.
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Oh my gosh.
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Oh my gosh.
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I feel genuinely emotional.
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And it's more sweet than I did at the start of episode.
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That's so cool.
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Where is your national baby?
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Baby?
15:30
You ever say that it ends over?
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Okay.
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Questions.
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What kind of stuff?
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The thing I wanted to talk about today is how to invest during a recession.
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Yes.
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Because everyone's panicking about this.
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Yes.
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And I'm sure as he has questions that she's got from the classroom that other people, whether or not you're doing the course we ever plan on, you'll still learn from the questions and answers.
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So should we start with recession or are you burning to ask her classroom questions?
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That kind of also is a question that I had with the bank's collapsing, everything like that.
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I understand how I should set my portfolio out as someone who, it's for a long term investment.
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So I can afford to be a little bit more risky with it.
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I want mostly stocks like I want to diversify, probably use ETFs probably will be a passive investor.
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But the one thing that I was was thinking about is like with those stocks that I can be a bit more risky with because it is a long term investment.
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I just don't really know what companies I should be investing in.
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And I think you guys do further in the course, go into it in a bit more detail.
16:30
Honestly, so amazing.
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You can afford my financial all of that up.
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I was like, oh, if that was attracted to woman, she would have asked you on a day.
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Like that's what was happening.
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But I haven't even looked at my notes in weeks because I've been busy and been away.
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And so I haven't even touched up, but I wanted to brush up before I spoke to you guys.
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But I have.
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But everything that you were saying is like spot on, you know, if you are taking a long term view,
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you kind of shouldn't be too worried about investing in a recession or, you know,
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because recessions that don't last forever.
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If you've got, you know, five 10 year, five or 10 year savings goal, then, you know,
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that you should kind of just be thinking, okay, what companies are on invest in?
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What companies that I think will be bigger in five or 10 years time and investing in those.
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But I do love how you're using some ETFs as well, which for those who don't know is like an exchange traded fund.
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So it's a fund that is on the stock exchange.
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So you buy it just like a, like you buy a share in a company.
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And you get instant kind of diversification.
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You get a part of all these, all these companies that within the fund.
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So you might have, you know, buying one ETF and you get access to about 50 underlying companies that are in that fund.
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It's like a good example of an ETF.
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I reckon it's like buying a box of pizza and being unsure as to how like what flavor you want to go for.
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So you say, actually, can you give me a tiny size of every single thing on the menu?
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And that's kind of what an ETF is.
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You buy one pizza.
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You're getting every flavor.
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Yeah.
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Well, like for me, I've got 30% in the, my God, I'm forgetting all my, all my terms.
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And the, they have 500 index five.
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Oh, yeah.
18:09
Yeah, nice.
18:10
Yeah. So that's the, which is the 500.
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Yes.
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Which is the S&P 500.
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Yeah.
18:14
Yeah.
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And I think that's the top companies in the world.
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I was like, fine.
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Totally.
18:18
And I think you being based in America as well, you kind of seeing those companies firsthand.
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Yes, we see them down here in New Zealand.
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But yeah, for you, you're actually kind of living in breathing.
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It's so much easier for you if you see a product you like or you're seeing heaps of people all of a sudden wearing a new clothing brand.
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And you, you can look at that and go, okay, is that publicly listed?
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Can I buy shares in that?
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Yeah.
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And that's really cool.
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Whereas New Zealand, it's a bit harder because, you know, a lot of those companies.
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We're in London.
18:48
Yeah.
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Disconnected from the rest of the world.
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Yes.
18:51
So that's kind of the question I had, I think that was like, obviously you can invest in these ETFs and like, yeah, the S&P 500, etc.
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But if you want to be more risky and invest in companies with that other 20%.
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You guys said specifically to think about things you're interested in because you want to invest in what you know,
19:10
because you're just more likely to be following it anyway.
19:14
Yeah.
19:15
And it'll take some of the work out of it.
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But I'm just like, what if I want to make big bucks?
19:19
Yeah.
19:20
What if I only have a million here?
19:22
Yeah.
19:23
Yeah.
19:24
And I'm just like, with this 20% what should I be doing with it?
19:26
That's a great question.
19:27
Yeah.
19:28
Because I think also there is a lot of pressure outside.
19:30
No, I don't know which episode it is, but I'm going to try and find it now.
19:34
We have actually done an episode on how to put like a hundred bagger.
19:38
Which do you want to quickly explain what that is?
19:41
Yeah.
19:42
So a hundred bagger is a company that increases a hundred times.
19:46
So if you invested in the share price was a dollar, then that share price grew to a hundred dollars.
19:50
That's a hundred bagger.
19:51
They're so rare.
19:52
If you find one in your lifetime amazing stick with it and let it grow.
19:56
But even a 10 bagger, 20 bagger, they're amazing and they're so helpful in achieving that and getting that millionaire status.
20:04
But it's more just about keeping it in there.
20:06
A lot of people get freaked out.
20:07
A lot of people see the headlines, hear about the recession, see what's going on with the banks collapsing.
20:13
And they're like, you know what?
20:14
I'm just going to pull my money out and, you know, because I'm a bit nervous.
20:17
That's kind of the worst thing to do.
20:19
You know, taking your money out and not investing it and putting it in the bank or keeping it in your mattress.
20:25
Where do I cost average girls?
20:27
Yes.
20:28
I found the podcast by the way.
20:31
It was number 20, how to spot investments that got by a hundred percent.
20:34
And that was a really interesting episode because you gave examples of after pay, which would have been like what you're talking about as a,
20:40
when you're like, oh, I want to spot the next after pay or the next Tesla or something that is going to grow hugely.
20:45
And because if you're only putting in, say, $500 and that's not a big deal for you to lose for $500, if you put it in and you leave it for 20 years.
20:53
And that goes up to whatever, you know, I think that's what's been really good for me is, for example, Tesla.
20:59
I know that I've fully missed the boat in terms of the home, like going up by hundreds and hundreds of percents.
21:04
But I still believe in it.
21:06
And I've left it in through all this stupid Twitter bullshit and all the stuff that's gone on.
21:10
I don't particularly agree with Elon Musk as a person.
21:13
But in terms of the Tesla cars, I really, I really rate them.
21:16
And I'm not really probably going to put any more in that I already have.
21:19
And it's just probably going to leave it where it is.
21:21
And if you are, and if you are interested in Tesla, then you're going to be following, you know, the news headlines,
21:26
you're going to be interested, you're going to be reading them, you're going to be looking at if the share price does fall.
21:31
You'll be like, you know what, I'm going to add some more.
21:33
You know, you're kind of, you're not timing the market, but you're kind of being a bit opportunistic with, you know, okay,
21:39
well, this is for nothing really has happened.
21:41
That's major that's changed the business.
21:43
I'm going to invest some more.
21:44
But the best thing with investing in a recession, I think, and I think this is the case with, with any kind of investment,
21:49
is like we were talking about before about having a diversified portfolio because you never know what's around the corner.
21:55
And that doesn't mean having a whole lot of boring companies that you've invested in.
22:00
It's really just a case of having, having some really spicy tech stocks, you know, but also having some really boring,
22:08
kind of healthcare companies because if we've got another COVID around the corner and you've got all of your investments in really spicy companies,
22:17
you're not going to do too well.
22:19
And psychologically, that'll be really hard to get your head around if your whole portfolio is down, say, 20%,
22:26
30%, whereas if summer and summer and then also, you know, when things start returning and being really, really positive again,
22:33
and things start growing and share prices start growing up, it's the ones that have fallen the most that will then go back up the most.
22:42
So that's the thing that a lot of people, you know, at the moment, they're like, oh, gosh, Netflix, for example, fell off a cliff last year.
22:49
And then now it's back up, it's had a really great start to the year.
22:52
And it's those companies that have that are the most, it's volatility, you know, if they're falling a lot, then most of them are not saying every single one,
23:00
but mostly they're going to climb back up the steepest.
23:03
And that's one thing that I learned during March 2020, when we had COVID and all those companies that were hit the hardest were the ones that bounced back the hardest, like the Amazon's, the Zooms,
23:15
you know, those ones that initially, and I'm talking like the month around March 2020, when the whole world kind of realised what was happening,
23:24
those were the companies that got hit the hardest and then they rebounded because everyone's like, you know what, everyone's going to be online,
23:28
and it's also when you're investing in a recession, it's having a diversified portfolio, but it's looking at, okay, what are the companies that have been hit the hardest that when we come out of this recession,
23:37
which usually only lasts one or two, three years, you know, they don't last forever.
23:42
Those are going to be the companies that are going to come out and do really well after the recession.
23:46
Oh, I love that.
23:47
Yeah, yeah, it is difficult though, when it's, when it does fall to feel like you have to react and do something, but you don't.
23:56
Okay, say if a company went public, I bought stocks and then the stocks like quadriple then price, is that when you should sell, or are you saying you should just hold on to them for ages with a company like that?
24:06
Yeah, that's a good question.
24:08
It's, you know, if you have a really, an investment that's done really, really well, or should you take profits and should you be selling and, you know, capitalising, I guess, or
24:18
capitalising on that, those gains that you've made and that increase in their share price and putting it into something else, or should you just let it run?
24:26
I hate saying this is an answer, but it totally depends.
24:29
It's, it really does.
24:31
And when you're talking about companies that first go public, so like an IPO, which is an initial public offering.
24:39
And a lot of the time, those companies that do really well straight out of the gate, that kind of, if you're thinking about, oh, you know what?
24:49
I'm going to take some profits or I'm going to sell some shares because it's done so well, there will be tons of people with the same mindset.
24:56
So therefore, it doesn't tend to keep doing well in that short space of time, but it might over the long term if it is a really good company.
25:05
Yeah.
25:06
So that was one that did really, really well straight out the gate, and now it hasn't.
25:11
So, yeah, but it was, that's the thing, when you win a stock or share price goes up 100% on day one, I'm going to be selling my shares.
25:19
Exactly.
25:20
I'm like, what are you going to do?
25:21
You'll sell your shares.
25:22
So is everyone else.
25:23
But you said it's a WhatsApp on the group chat.
25:25
Yeah, I don't know why.
25:28
Where are they?
25:29
Just hypothetically.
25:30
Whereas that's with like any, any investment that goes up 100% in such a short space of time, like those main stocks that we're talking about.
25:38
So these were stocks that you might not have got to this part of the course.
25:41
Yeah.
25:42
But these are stocks where everyone kind of bands together in social media and goes, right, we're going to buy this stock and it goes up so quickly.
25:50
And those are the companies you need to be kind of a bit scared of because if they go up really quickly, they can come down really quickly because everyone's like, whoa, I've made so much money.
25:59
I'm going to sell and then everyone else is like, got the same mindset.
26:04
Whereas if a company slowly chokes along, yes, it might be boring.
26:07
But if it's going up 10, 20, 30% a year, that's amazing.
26:11
That's fantastic.
26:12
I want those ones that I'm going to turn around, that I can sleep at night.
26:15
And I can turn around in five years time and they've consistently gone up, not the ones that are like up 100% down 40% up.
26:22
You know, that's exhausting and scary.
26:25
And I'm probably going to do something that I later regret in terms of keeping it into long or selling out and then it goes back out.
26:31
Those are the ones where you get a lot of great hairs.
26:34
But I feel you is there because I'm the same.
26:36
I think I've got a little bit of a risky side to me where I'm like, if I've got that 20%.
26:41
So I've got 80% in semi-boring companies that go up 10, 20%.
26:46
I want to be finding the next 100 bagger.
26:49
I want to find the new Tesla or the new whatever that's going to be a bit exciting and maybe a bit spicy.
26:55
I think it's probably what I've come to realise is that 20% for me, I could lose it and that's fine.
27:02
I want to invest that way.
27:04
Maybe that's a good approach.
27:05
Yeah, using that 20% is like, this is going to be my spicy fund.
27:08
This is going to be my spicy portfolio that I'm like, you know what?
27:10
I don't care if it goes to zero, but you know, I want it to go.
27:13
Yeah, or even just like, even if you take it down a notch from that.
27:17
It's like, okay, I have done all these EFTs.
27:20
I've diversified my portfolio, say that other 20% was just, I guess what comes to mind for me is like the Amazon
27:26
statistics, like those big ones.
27:27
And I'm like, what are the other ones?
27:30
Yes, yeah.
27:31
And a good way to find those is to like looking at technology ETFs, if you want to invest in some tech companies.
27:37
And like, yes, all the big ones will be at the top.
27:39
Yeah, Amazon, you Microsoft's, you know, and Apple's and all those companies will be at the top.
27:43
Once you get below those, it's like looking at like, oh, okay, what are those?
27:46
I guess not second tier tech companies, but those smaller portions of the pizza.
27:51
Yeah, yeah, that haven't.
27:53
And I can't maybe household names that people haven't heard a lot about looking at those and being like,
27:58
oh, could that be the next Amazon?
28:00
Could that be the next Microsoft and that kind of thing?
28:02
I feel like we need like a big army of woman that are like searching for stuff and we're all like,
28:07
all right, team, I found this one.
28:09
What are you reckon?
28:10
You know, I mean, like, this is like a game stock.
28:12
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:13
Or just like, not.
28:14
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:16
But incident harms.
28:19
But feminine.
28:20
Yeah, yeah.
28:21
We're investing in like the next group.
28:23
Yeah, genuinely, but you should get a giant group of woman who really interested.
28:27
Everyone does a little bit of research.
28:29
We all share knowledge.
28:30
It's like a proper investing club and people can choose what they want to invest in.
28:33
But it means you're not the one that's having to do all the research because it can be overwhelming.
28:37
But it's also there's so many opportunities.
28:40
I have to look at every single company, you know, someone asked me the other day,
28:43
like, what's the optimal number of companies in a portfolio or, you know,
28:48
she has these account or whatever.
28:49
And I was like, you know, I want like technically the optimal in like statistics.
28:53
So it's 30 companies.
28:54
But I was like, gosh, I don't have 30 companies in mind.
28:57
Do you have like 10 or 10?
28:58
Yeah, I was like, 10 is probably enough to like have a diversified portfolio,
29:03
but also not overwhelm yourself with not knowing what you're investing in.
29:07
Because that is the worst thing to do to just chuck a company in there because you feel like you need it.
29:13
I've done that.
29:14
I'm so guilty of that.
29:15
Because that is gambling.
29:17
Victor, tell me a couple of yours.
29:20
He loves the thing.
29:21
She gets so awkward, but I like him.
29:24
I have invested in Apple, which I think is.
29:30
Is it?
29:31
Have you heard of that?
29:32
Is it?
29:33
It's a tech company.
29:35
It's a tech company.
29:36
Okay.
29:38
A lot of consumer products.
29:40
I'm actually going to bring it up because.
29:42
You're a portfolio.
29:43
Yeah.
29:44
It's actually in the classroom.
29:48
But it is in the classroom.
29:50
You'll get there eventually.
29:51
Yeah.
29:52
I think I've got like Costco because that's like slow, steady, you know,
29:55
great company to own in a recession.
29:57
I should invest in ear one.
29:58
You know, the like bougie L.A.
30:00
It's this bougie L.A. supermarket.
30:03
It's been around for a while.
30:06
It's basically now just kind of going off on TikTok because all these.
30:09
It's only in L.A.
30:10
But a lot of people are coming to L.A.
30:12
And trying it.
30:13
What was that program that it was on?
30:15
Entourage.
30:16
Was it?
30:17
Yeah.
30:18
They used to hang out there.
30:19
And I think that any problem is like, oh my gosh.
30:20
Amazing.
30:21
Oh, thanks for the tips on L.A.
30:23
But they are maybe expand.
30:25
I don't actually know that they're probably not even a public company.
30:29
I don't think they are.
30:30
They're expanding.
30:31
Yeah, but they're expanding into New York.
30:33
So I was like,
30:34
Behind that, it's a really good example of keeping your eye on it because it might one day,
30:39
I don't know, be bought by a company that is a public and therefore you can invest in it.
30:44
Like with L'Oreal buying ASOP.
30:47
I was like, oh my god, yes, I can invest in ASOP now.
30:49
That just happened recently.
30:50
Yes.
30:51
So it became, like it wasn't available.
30:53
It's been a company since like what, the 1980s.
30:56
Yeah.
30:57
Privately.
30:58
And now it's finally public.
30:59
So that's actually a really good example.
31:01
This one is actually a great one.
31:03
Zoytis.
31:04
I don't even know the taste that.
31:05
But they do pet pharmaceuticals and vet products and all that.
31:09
So I was like, you know what?
31:10
I spent a shitload on my dog.
31:12
I'm finding this dog is treated like a pet company test.
31:15
And it has done fantastic well.
31:17
Yeah.
31:18
That's a good idea.
31:19
Okay.
31:20
This is my question for my mom.
31:22
Basically when I started learning about investing, this is very me.
31:25
And I start to learn about anything.
31:27
And I feel like I have to tell every single person,
31:29
I've even like finished the course before I've finished the book.
31:31
I'm just like, I'm learning about investing.
31:33
Do you invest?
31:34
You should invest.
31:35
Like, I know that you guys say, you know, you're never too old to invest
31:38
or everyone when they start investing wishes they're done it sooner.
31:41
And I feel like that is 30.
31:42
I'm just like if I was 20.
31:44
So I'm harassing myself to so much that I'm like, if I was 20 and I started doing this,
31:47
you're just so much better off.
31:49
Like obviously with the compounding interest, etc.
31:52
And the thing is like, you're never too old.
31:54
But then I feel like when you guys are saying that or when people are saying that,
31:57
they're meaning they're looking at like 30s, 40s, maybe even 50 year olds.
32:01
And so when I talk to my mom, she was just like, she feels like it's just too late for her.
32:05
She's like 63 kind of nearing retirement.
32:10
Hasn't really known anything about money.
32:12
I feel like that generation, most of them women anyway,
32:16
we're just not told about money.
32:17
And now she's now I'm trying to teach her about investing.
32:20
But I'm also like, I don't really understand if you should be investing or like,
32:24
I don't really get it for someone your age either.
32:27
Yeah, no, we can ask that a lot.
32:29
Even if you're 40 people are like, oh gosh, I've missed the boat.
32:32
And then I'm like, you know what? No, you've got so many years, even 65.
32:36
We had an event and we had this lady who was 90 years old,
32:39
who came along to the one about events to learn about investing.
32:42
It's not like 65 is the age where everyone has to stop investing in that sort
32:46
because you're retiring, not at all.
32:48
That's effectively society's age where you're supposed to stop working
32:52
and live off your savings and retire.
32:54
Which is by the way, extremely unrealistic for a lot of people.
32:57
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, 100%.
32:59
The thing with that is though, even at 63,
33:01
it's like she's still got a ton of life left in her.
33:05
You know, it's not like.
33:07
So it's really just about adjusting what you invest in.
33:11
Like we're talking about how we are splitting, you know, 80, 20,
33:14
80% into safe, safe, you know, more boring stocks,
33:17
20% into really spicy ones.
33:19
But that's 100% invested in the stock market essentially.
33:23
Whereas for her or anyone that's closer to retirement age,
33:27
maybe they're like, you know what?
33:28
I'm just going to invest 20% in the stock market.
33:30
And that's going to be my spiciness.
33:32
And then the 80% is going to be more into, you know,
33:35
a bit more of a conservative or lower risk fund investments, cash,
33:42
cash that's actually working for you.
33:44
It's a term deposit.
33:45
It's not just cash in a bank account.
33:47
So it's really just suggesting what she's investing in.
33:50
But still growing the money that she has.
33:53
Because if you get to a point where you are growing your savings
33:57
or your investments, then you can kind of start living off that.
34:00
But the base is still growing, if that makes sense.
34:03
So if you had money and it was growing at like, say, 5%,
34:07
or even 4%, you can live off that amount,
34:11
what depending how much it is,
34:13
you can keep investing the bulk of your savings
34:17
while dipping into it and living off it, if that makes sense.
34:20
So you don't have to go be like, right, 65, I've got to stop investing.
34:24
You can still grow that.
34:25
And like even we talk about Kiwi Sava,
34:27
which is the New Zealand pension retirement scheme.
34:30
And people like, do I have to take it out when I'm 65?
34:33
And you're like, no, no, no, you can keep it in there.
34:35
And you can still get the benefit of the growth of the fund.
34:38
And then you can just take out what you need each year to live off.
34:42
So use that amount will get less and less.
34:44
But it's still growing.
34:46
And therefore, you're still earning money on that money.
34:50
One of the things that I hadn't thought about was like,
34:52
investing till retirement.
34:54
When you retire, you're not going to take all that money out.
34:57
So you're going to use some of it.
34:58
But the rest of your money is going to still be making that compounding interest.
35:01
I think I have a really thought of it that way.
35:03
For her, I'm just like, as long as your money is making,
35:06
even if you have it in the safest of funds,
35:08
that's going to make 7% year on year.
35:11
That's going to be more than like a 4% high interest savings account.
35:15
Yeah.
35:16
And right now, I probably got about,
35:18
I would say maybe 70, 80% of my money in a fund and a high risk fund.
35:23
And the rest, I like to invest myself.
35:26
If I was closer to 65,
35:28
then I would just put that 80% into a more conservative fund.
35:33
I kind of moved down the spectrum of riskiness as I approached retirement.
35:38
Maybe instead of having that full amount in a high growth fund,
35:41
I'd maybe do, I'd keep 80% in there and put 20% in conservative.
35:45
And then as I get older, I'll put 50, 50,
35:48
and then as I get closer to retirement,
35:50
I'll maybe just flip that round and do 20% in high risk in 80%.
35:54
So it's not like you get to the destination and go,
35:57
right, okay, now I need to take it out
35:59
or completely change my investing strategy.
36:01
We talk about retirement,
36:02
but some people are investing for a wedding or for a holiday.
36:05
And that might be two years away, that might be four years away.
36:08
They'll adjust what they invest in to suit that investing goal.
36:12
So yeah, it's really good to know that nope,
36:14
you can still grow the money even though you're kind of dipping into it to live off.
36:18
There's actually a really good episode we did,
36:20
episode 18, and it's hard to invest if you have short-term money goals.
36:23
And it was all about this, like the idea of capital preservation,
36:26
which sounds like a scary word,
36:27
but it is essentially that it's like having whatever,
36:30
like for your mum having her base,
36:32
so what she, she has,
36:34
she doesn't want to risk it too much.
36:35
She wants to try and invest with a lot of risks.
36:37
So I think that's probably a good episode for her to listen to, is it?
36:40
Okay, amazing.
36:41
Did you have any other questions that you wanted to know about?
36:44
One question I, maybe this is off the record,
36:47
but I was just wondering, like working,
36:49
being friends and podcasting,
36:51
and having to be on like all the time,
36:53
how do you two ask you for a friend?
36:55
Yeah, ask you for a friend,
36:57
you know, because it is like,
36:58
we're in business here,
36:59
we're going to have disagreements,
37:01
we're going to, with friends, you know,
37:03
personal lives in the way,
37:04
it's something that we've had to learn.
37:06
I just wondered if you guys had any tips of how you deal with that.
37:09
Yeah, I think this is a super interesting question.
37:11
I feel like,
37:12
I feel like people would really want to hear the answer to this one.
37:15
The base is essentially of like both of our podcasts,
37:18
which we said earlier is our friendship.
37:20
When it started for us,
37:21
it was a hobby and it was just fun.
37:23
It was nothing to do with making money.
37:25
It was nothing,
37:26
it was no kind of business in any way.
37:28
And it started growing
37:29
and we both had these full-time jobs.
37:31
Essentially, once it started making some money
37:33
and we started getting sponsorships and things, you know,
37:35
you have to reply to the emails,
37:36
you have to be on it,
37:37
you have to be doing this,
37:38
you have to discuss things more.
37:39
It did get quite like hard to maintain the same level of friendship.
37:43
And at the same time,
37:44
when you're speaking so much about work stuff,
37:47
you kind of don't want to hang out as much socially.
37:50
I remember at the start,
37:51
it was like, obviously,
37:52
we would choose our friendship over the podcast.
37:54
And then at one point,
37:55
it felt like we had just chosen the podcast,
37:57
kind of over our friendship,
37:58
which I think our listeners find really weird,
38:00
because I think we've always seemed completely fine
38:02
when we record,
38:03
but they have been times where we've been like,
38:05
really pissed off with each other
38:06
or not even really speaking friendship-wise,
38:09
outside of the podcast.
38:11
In a way, forced us to become like sisters,
38:13
which I think was a tough route to get there.
38:16
Grace is really great.
38:17
She's very logically minded,
38:19
and she's really great in a fight
38:21
and a fucking hate that about her,
38:22
because she will like not get emotional,
38:24
and I get so emotional,
38:26
and I'm like trying not to cry,
38:28
the minute we start,
38:29
like any kind of disagreement.
38:31
And then I'm just like,
38:32
she's gonna know you're gonna cry,
38:33
so don't cry.
38:35
And so I'm like holding my nose,
38:37
and she's like,
38:38
she's like, God's sake, just cry.
38:39
And I'm like, I'm sorry,
38:40
but you're like a bitch.
38:43
But I totally get the sister's thing.
38:45
Yes, sometimes it is.
38:46
You're fucking annoying me so much,
38:48
but I love you.
38:49
And also to be honest about the fact
38:51
that yeah, being friends
38:52
and business partners
38:54
and podcasting on top of that,
38:56
it's a lot, isn't it?
38:57
Yeah.
38:58
But the sister's thing really resonates.
38:59
Thanks so much.
39:00
Being really honest about that.
39:01
Yeah, super, super helpful.
39:03
It's nice to know we're not alone
39:04
when we spend with each other.
39:05
Also, that's laptop stuff.
39:06
So it's okay.
39:07
I'm worried that this podcast
39:08
is gonna cut out, so.
39:09
I'm on 4%.
39:10
Maybe we'll have top years.
39:12
Yeah, yeah.
39:13
But thank you so much, Izzy.
39:15
That was really, really fun
39:16
to have a fellow podcaster,
39:18
but a way better one.
39:19
Thank you for having me, you guys.
39:21
I'll come back any time.
39:22
You need to come on after it drinks now.
39:24
Yeah.
39:25
We love it.
39:28
Thank you so much for joining us
39:30
for today's episode of Raising the Curve.
39:32
Please subscribe and leave a review
39:34
on what ever platform you're listening on.
39:36
And we would also love for you
39:37
to share this podcast
39:38
with anyone you think would benefit from it.
39:40
For more information about the curve
39:42
and how you can learn more,
39:43
head to thecurve.co.nz
39:45
or find us on socials
39:47
at the underscore curve NZ.