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Woody Harrelson: Contract Killers, JFK Conspiracies, and Fathers & Sons · DISGRACELAND

0:00
Speaker 1: This episode contains content that may be disturbing to some listeners.
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Speaker 1: Please check the show notes for more information. Disgraceland is
0:07
Speaker 1: a production of Double Elvis. This is the story of
0:22
Speaker 1: a killer, a contract killer, perhaps a killer who is
0:26
Speaker 1: part of one of the most infamous murders of all time.
0:30
Speaker 1: But it's also the story about that killer's son, an actor,
0:34
Speaker 1: Woody Harrelson, an actor who made great films and great television,
0:41
Speaker 1: an actor who was and is inspired by great music.
0:45
Speaker 1: Unlike that music, I played few at the top of
0:47
Speaker 1: the show that wasn't great music. That was a preset
0:52
Speaker 1: loop from my melotron called Texas Book Colonoscopy MK One.
0:58
Speaker 1: I played you that loop because I can't afford the
1:00
Speaker 1: rights to Hot Stuff by Donna Summer. Hey, why would
1:05
Speaker 1: I play you that specific slice of Somerville Girl Cheese?
1:09
Speaker 1: Could I afford it? Because that was the number one
1:14
Speaker 1: song in America on May ninth, nineteen seventy nine, And
1:19
Speaker 1: that was the day that Judge John H. Wood was
1:22
Speaker 1: gunned down in his driveway, an event that led to
1:25
Speaker 1: a manhunt, a questionable conviction, and a major shift in
1:29
Speaker 1: the way that Woody Harrelson would look at his father forever.
1:34
Speaker 1: On this episode contract Killers, Assassinations, Fathers and Sons and
1:40
Speaker 1: Woody Harrelson. I'm Jake Brennan and this is Disgraceland. April
2:16
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight, Houston, Texas. A red Cadillac convertible idled
2:22
Speaker 1: on the side of a desolate road, blanketed in darkness.
2:26
Speaker 1: Sandra Sue sat in the driver's seat. She was afraid
2:29
Speaker 1: of what Chuck was going to do to her when
2:31
Speaker 1: he got back. Chuck was outside behind the Cadillac with
2:36
Speaker 1: the man they'd picked up near the brass bar. She
2:39
Speaker 1: heard muffled voices over the purr of the engine. Chuck
2:42
Speaker 1: was probably beating the piss out of the poor guy.
2:45
Speaker 1: Sandra Sue put a hand to the spot where Chuck
2:48
Speaker 1: hit her just minutes earlier, when she got the car
2:51
Speaker 1: stuck in the mud. Chuck called her a stupid bitch
2:54
Speaker 1: and slapped her across the face, and it stung like hell.
2:58
Speaker 1: It wasn't the first time he hit her, and she
3:00
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be the last. Sadra Sue and Chuck hadn't
3:04
Speaker 1: been together that long, a few months, half a year maybe.
3:07
Speaker 1: She met him at a party. Six foot three, handsome,
3:11
Speaker 1: his eyes were a cavernous blue impossibly big. They moved
3:15
Speaker 1: in together two days after their first date. At first,
3:18
Speaker 1: he was sweet, but his mood swung hard. He was
3:22
Speaker 1: violent only a few months into the relationship. She contemplated
3:26
Speaker 1: leaving him, but she was worried how he'd react. She
3:30
Speaker 1: didn't want to take any chances. Chuck, on the other hand,
3:33
Speaker 1: took chances all the time. He liked to gamble, and
3:37
Speaker 1: though he wasn't very good at it, On a recent
3:39
Speaker 1: trip to Vegas, Chuck won and lost five grand in
3:42
Speaker 1: quick succession, which was not good because Chuck needed money
3:46
Speaker 1: bad life or death bad. He didn't tell Sandra Sue
3:50
Speaker 1: that he had debts, debts to people that you didn't
3:53
Speaker 1: want to be in debt to. He also didn't tell
3:56
Speaker 1: Sandra Sue that he was married, that he had three
3:58
Speaker 1: sons from an earlier marriage, or that he had been
4:01
Speaker 1: arrested for everything from drunk driving to armed robbery, or
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Speaker 1: that he carried around business cards that advertised his under
4:09
Speaker 1: the table services, cards that read wars fought, revolutions, started, assassinations,
4:15
Speaker 1: plotted governments, run uprisings, quelled women, seduced tiger's, tamed bars,
4:19
Speaker 1: emptied orgies, organized Sandra Sue did have her suspicions. One night,
4:25
Speaker 1: after Chuck had taken out his anger on her yet again,
4:28
Speaker 1: she asked him if you hurt people for a living.
4:31
Speaker 1: Chuck's response, of course. On this night, Chuck pulled Sandra
4:38
Speaker 1: Sue into his world for the first time. He needed
4:41
Speaker 1: her help. He said that a carpet salesman named alan
4:44
Speaker 1: Berg had cheated a man out of some money, and
4:46
Speaker 1: that Chuck had been hired to convince alan Berg to
4:48
Speaker 1: pay it back. Chuck would get fifteen hundred dollars for
4:52
Speaker 1: his assistance. So Chuck and Sandra Sue call Allen tell
4:56
Speaker 1: him that she had seen him around town, thought he
4:58
Speaker 1: was cute, and asked if he wanted to eat her
5:00
Speaker 1: down at the Brass Jug. She seductively told him what
5:03
Speaker 1: she'd do to him with her mouth. When they met up,
5:06
Speaker 1: alan Berg couldn't say no. Alan Berg also couldn't say
5:09
Speaker 1: no to getting inside the Cadillac when it pulled up
5:12
Speaker 1: hastily outside the Brass Jug where he was waiting like
5:14
Speaker 1: a rude. He couldn't say no because Chuck jumped from
5:18
Speaker 1: the vehicle before it even came to a screeching halt
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Speaker 1: and shoved a twenty five caliber pistol in Alan's face.
5:24
Speaker 1: Get in the back, Chuck told him. Chuck got in
5:27
Speaker 1: next to him and then told Sandra Sue to drive.
5:30
Speaker 1: She floored it. Chuck tied Alan's hands in front of
5:33
Speaker 1: his body, and then he had Sandra Sue pulled the
5:35
Speaker 1: car over on the outskirts of Houston. When he took
5:38
Speaker 1: Alan out of the car and around the back by
5:40
Speaker 1: the trunk. And now Sandra Sue waited. She was nervous,
5:45
Speaker 1: she was shaking. She figured that Chuck's pistol was just
5:48
Speaker 1: for show, a tactic he used to convince these deadbeats
5:52
Speaker 1: to pay what was owed to the people who hired Chuck.
5:55
Speaker 1: Chuck was a scary motherfucker when he wanted to be,
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Speaker 1: so it probably wouldn't take much time to convince Alan.
6:03
Speaker 1: Sandra Sue's heart leaped to her throat. She could hardly breathe.
6:08
Speaker 1: She stepped out of the Cadillac and ran back to
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Speaker 1: the trunk. Chuck's pistol was smoking. Alan was faced down
6:13
Speaker 1: on the ground and there was blood all over Chuck's shirt.
6:16
Speaker 1: Sandra Sue's entire body shook. Chuck lifted the pistol and
6:20
Speaker 1: aimed it at her get back in the car. I
6:22
Speaker 1: swear to Christy'll do the scene to you. Sandra Sue
6:26
Speaker 1: hadn't signed up for kidnapping her murder, but she knew
6:29
Speaker 1: exactly what would happen, or she didn't follow Chuck's instructions.
6:32
Speaker 1: As she got back in the caddy, she watched as
6:35
Speaker 1: Chuck dragged Alan's lifeless body off the road and into
6:38
Speaker 1: the brush. He walked back to the caddy again and
6:40
Speaker 1: pulled a shovel from the trunk, and then he walked
6:43
Speaker 1: back to Alan's body and after a few minutes, he
6:45
Speaker 1: hollered to Sandra Sue he needed her again. Sandra Sue
6:49
Speaker 1: got out of the car and walked over to where
6:51
Speaker 1: a Chuck was trying to dig into the ground. He
6:53
Speaker 1: had taken off his coat and tie. He brought the
6:55
Speaker 1: shovel down on the ground, but the dirt was like concrete.
6:58
Speaker 1: God damn it, this wasn't going to work. And Sandra
7:02
Speaker 1: Sue heard a wet, eerie sound coming from the ground.
7:05
Speaker 1: She looked down and something low, muffled, pitiful. It was
7:08
Speaker 1: Alan Berg. Gurgling noises were coming from his mouth. She
7:13
Speaker 1: asked Chuck what was happening. Chuck looked down at the
7:16
Speaker 1: man he thought he'd just killed. God damn it, he said,
7:20
Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna have to choke him. Sandra Sue felt
7:23
Speaker 1: like she was going to be sick. Chuck handed to
7:26
Speaker 1: the shovel and told her to take it back to
7:27
Speaker 1: the car. He took the rope he had tied around
7:30
Speaker 1: Alan's hands and wound it around Alan's neck, sinched it
7:33
Speaker 1: up deathly tight, and then used it to drag Alan
7:36
Speaker 1: back to the car, where he tossed the twice killed
7:39
Speaker 1: body in the truck. Chuck looked at Sandra Sue. I'm driving,
7:45
Speaker 1: he said. The two sat in silence as Chuck drove
7:49
Speaker 1: the Cadillac south for miles to where there was water,
7:52
Speaker 1: and that would be the easiest way to dump the body.
7:54
Speaker 1: Fucked that shoveling shit, and they were far from Houston,
7:57
Speaker 1: probably Galveston city lights received in the distance, Chuck spotted
8:01
Speaker 1: a watery ditch. He pulled the car over, got out,
8:05
Speaker 1: dumped Down's body in the water. Before he did, however,
8:08
Speaker 1: he pulled a watch off the body's wrist, not because
8:11
Speaker 1: it was expensive, which it was, but because he needed
8:14
Speaker 1: it as proof that he had fulfilled the contract. In
8:17
Speaker 1: that contract was not to scare alan Berg into paying
8:20
Speaker 1: his debt, like he had told saintra Sus, that contract
8:24
Speaker 1: was to kill alan Berg. Chuck didn't give a fuck
8:27
Speaker 1: about another man's debts. He had his own debts to pay.
8:35
Speaker 1: Willy Harrelson was angry. They said he had stolen a purse. Bullshit.
8:41
Speaker 1: He'd done nothing of the sort. They had no proof.
8:45
Speaker 1: They were basing their accusations solely on his reputation. Sure
8:48
Speaker 1: had gotten into trouble before. It was part of his
8:51
Speaker 1: charm what he was lovable. But he was also a
8:53
Speaker 1: bit of a scamp. But this is going too far.
8:57
Speaker 1: Not only was he accused of a crime he didn't commit,
9:00
Speaker 1: now they were attacking him too, berating him, hitting him what.
9:05
Speaker 1: He clenched his fists, he grit his teeth. He ran
9:07
Speaker 1: from the room where he was being pummeled and persecuted
9:10
Speaker 1: and into another room in the building, and the anger
9:12
Speaker 1: just continued to build inside him. He felt like he
9:14
Speaker 1: was going to explode. His fists were white knuckled instruments
9:18
Speaker 1: of vengeance. He just wanted to fucking hit something. So
9:21
Speaker 1: the first window he came to, he shattered. His bald
9:24
Speaker 1: up fist went right through it, and he found another
9:26
Speaker 1: window and broke that one too. But the building he
9:29
Speaker 1: was single handedly destroying wasn't just any building. It was
9:33
Speaker 1: an elementary school. The person accusing him of theft and
9:37
Speaker 1: then beating on him was a teacher. Woody Harrelson was
9:42
Speaker 1: just a first grader. It wasn't the first time Woody's
9:46
Speaker 1: tantrum's gonna expelled from school. The first time was a
9:49
Speaker 1: few years earlier in nursery school. As a kid, what
9:53
Speaker 1: he was quick to anger his temper was just about
9:56
Speaker 1: the size of his home state and just about his
9:58
Speaker 1: hot too. He was born in Midland, Texas, in nineteen
10:01
Speaker 1: sixty one to parents who were polar opposites. His mother, Diane,
10:06
Speaker 1: was a strict Presbyterian and a positive role model who
10:09
Speaker 1: instilled the old fashioned values of treating others the way
10:12
Speaker 1: he would like to be treated what He's father, Charles,
10:15
Speaker 1: on the other hand, was a troublemaker. He always seemed
10:18
Speaker 1: to be in and out of a jam, in and
10:19
Speaker 1: out of trouble with the law. As far as what
10:22
Speaker 1: he could remember. His parents split up when he was
10:25
Speaker 1: only five. His father was rarely around as the years
10:29
Speaker 1: went on, the memories of Texas faded along with those
10:32
Speaker 1: of his absent dad. In nineteen sixty eight, what he
10:36
Speaker 1: moved with his mother and two brothers to his mother's
10:38
Speaker 1: hometown of Lebanon, Ohio. He tried to be good, try
10:42
Speaker 1: to keep his juvenile record from getting any more checkered
10:45
Speaker 1: than it already was. But he was his father's son
10:48
Speaker 1: after all, which meant there was an element of trouble
10:51
Speaker 1: that was simply coded into his DNA. He often wondered
10:55
Speaker 1: if he would ever see his father again. His mother
10:57
Speaker 1: was amazing, no doubt, doing the single parenting and all,
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Speaker 1: but would He couldn't help but think that maybe his
11:02
Speaker 1: attitude would be better if his dad were here. He
11:05
Speaker 1: also wondered what his dad was doing at this very moment,
11:09
Speaker 1: but why he was doing whatever he was doing, far
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Speaker 1: removed from his own flesh and blood, as if Woody
11:15
Speaker 1: and his brothers didn't even exist, And thoughts like those
11:19
Speaker 1: made him really angry. Chuck sat on the bed of
11:43
Speaker 1: a motel room with Sandra Sue by his side, the
11:47
Speaker 1: lights from the Houston Astrodome shown through the dirty window.
11:50
Speaker 1: It had been two days since Chuck murdered Alan Berg
11:53
Speaker 1: and dumped the body in a watery ditch out near Galveston.
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Speaker 1: Two days. That's all it took for Chuck to blow through.
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Speaker 1: The money had been paid, all fifteen hundred dollars, and
12:03
Speaker 1: he didn't use a cent to pay off any of
12:05
Speaker 1: the debts that he owed, which meant he had yet
12:08
Speaker 1: to unfuck himself in the bad debts department. Once again.
12:12
Speaker 1: He needed cash fast, which meant he needed another job.
12:17
Speaker 1: So he found one, one that didn't require any killing,
12:20
Speaker 1: not that Chuck minded killing, but this one would be easy,
12:24
Speaker 1: or so he thought. There was a knock the motel
12:26
Speaker 1: room door. In walked Pete Scamarto, a Texas grain broker.
12:31
Speaker 1: Chuck didn't know what the fuck a grain broker was,
12:34
Speaker 1: but he did know that it was essentially a front
12:36
Speaker 1: for Scarmato's other business. Heroin. Scamaro handed Chuck of condom
12:41
Speaker 1: filled with Mexican smack. If Chuck could sell it, they'd
12:45
Speaker 1: split the profits, and there was plenty more where that
12:47
Speaker 1: came from. Chuck agreed could be a nice little cash cop.
12:52
Speaker 1: Weeks later, Chuck still had the same rubber filled with
12:55
Speaker 1: the same heroin. No one wanted it. Desperate, he called
12:59
Speaker 1: a contact and into City who convinced Chuck to bring
13:02
Speaker 1: the dope to the heart of America where he could
13:04
Speaker 1: easily find a buyer. But Chuck found no buyers in
13:08
Speaker 1: Kansas City. In fact, the first person he talked to
13:11
Speaker 1: when he rolled into town was a cop. He was
13:14
Speaker 1: pulled over the minute he hit city limits. Someone sold
13:17
Speaker 1: him out. Cops even had a search warrant for his car.
13:20
Speaker 1: Twelve fucking hours from Houston to KC and this is
13:22
Speaker 1: what he got for. Chuck stepped out of the car
13:25
Speaker 1: with the condo stuffed deep in his jean's pocket. But
13:28
Speaker 1: while the cops poked around the car, he waited for
13:30
Speaker 1: the right moments and pulled a condom out of his
13:32
Speaker 1: pocket and drop it unnoticed down a sewer train or
13:35
Speaker 1: on the curve. It didn't matter. The police found a
13:38
Speaker 1: sawd off shotgun in the glove box and charged Chuck
13:41
Speaker 1: with a federal firearms violation. He did not passco did
13:46
Speaker 1: not collect money for selling junk. He went straight to jail.
13:51
Speaker 1: He posted bail that night, thanks to the same friend
13:53
Speaker 1: who summoned him to Kansas City in the first place.
13:56
Speaker 1: But he wasn't in the clear yet. Now he had
13:59
Speaker 1: to go back to hughesn't tell Pete Scamarado that he'd
14:01
Speaker 1: dropped the heroin in the sewer while the cops searched
14:04
Speaker 1: his car. Scarmardo was beyond pissed. Thousands of dollars in
14:09
Speaker 1: Mexican heroin down the fucking drain literally. Chuck owed him
14:14
Speaker 1: big time. But Chuck didn't have any money, no matter,
14:18
Speaker 1: he had the ability to do the dirty work that
14:20
Speaker 1: others didn't have the stomach for. Scarmardo had something that
14:24
Speaker 1: would get Chuck's hands, real fucking dirty. Pete Scamardo had
14:30
Speaker 1: a partner in the green business, Samdgillia Junior. Scarmardo wanted
14:34
Speaker 1: him gone. If Dagilia was out of the picture, then
14:37
Speaker 1: the company would collect one hundred thousand dollars in life insurance.
14:40
Speaker 1: Scamardo could use half of it to pay off the
14:42
Speaker 1: business loans, and the other half, well, don't worry about
14:45
Speaker 1: what he did with the other half. Scaramardo offered Chuck
14:49
Speaker 1: two grand to put a bullet into Guilia's head. Chuck
14:53
Speaker 1: left Sandra su back home this time, and Jerry Watkins
14:56
Speaker 1: and Next Cohn, just out of prison, who Chuck had
14:58
Speaker 1: recently met, went along for the rock and they drove
15:01
Speaker 1: way the fuck out to McCowan Texas so far south
15:04
Speaker 1: that there were practically in another country. Chuck told Jerry
15:08
Speaker 1: to wait in the car. He took his twenty five
15:10
Speaker 1: caliber pistol from the glove box. He thought about the
15:13
Speaker 1: two grand. It wasn't enough, It was never enough. You
15:16
Speaker 1: could start to make a dent on some of the debts,
15:18
Speaker 1: he owed, he just had to resist the urge this time.
15:21
Speaker 1: Don't piss it all away on poker and booze. Easier
15:24
Speaker 1: said than done. Suddenly the Ghilia appeared. It was dark,
15:28
Speaker 1: but Chuck could see him walking near a small shack alone.
15:32
Speaker 1: Daghilia could hardly make out Chuck as he made his
15:35
Speaker 1: quick approach, but he saw Chuck's eyes, big blue, like
15:39
Speaker 1: tidal pools that spun in the shadows and swallowed the
15:42
Speaker 1: real estate of Chuck's face. Chuck trained the pistol onto Gilia.
15:46
Speaker 1: He motioned to the shack inside. Now Chuck fawled to Ghilia.
15:51
Speaker 1: Inside the little shack. He told Dagilia to get on
15:53
Speaker 1: his knees, and the grain broker was shaking from his
15:56
Speaker 1: head to his feet. He tried to beg for his life,
15:58
Speaker 1: but he just stuttered through spittle panic breaths. Chuck repeated
16:02
Speaker 1: the instruction on your fucking knees now, Aguilia dropped to
16:06
Speaker 1: his knees with a thud in the plywood dug into
16:09
Speaker 1: his skin. He looked up at Chuck, six foot three,
16:13
Speaker 1: towering over him. Even though the barrel of the pistol
16:16
Speaker 1: was inches from his face, all the Ghillia could see
16:18
Speaker 1: were Chuck's blue eyes lurking behind it. Those eyes hypnotized him.
16:23
Speaker 1: Aguilia didn't even notice that Chuck had moved the pistol
16:27
Speaker 1: even closer to his face and had begun to squeeze
16:30
Speaker 1: the trigger. Inside the car, Jerry heard the gunshot. He
16:35
Speaker 1: turned the ignition and I redy call her argued politics
16:38
Speaker 1: with a combative host on the AM radio, and seconds
16:40
Speaker 1: later Chuck emerged from the shack. He got back in
16:43
Speaker 1: the car and what the fuck was Jerry listening to
16:46
Speaker 1: talk radio? It was a long drive back to Houston
16:50
Speaker 1: and this shit was going to board chop the tears.
16:52
Speaker 1: He told Jerry to drive and then grabbed the tuner
16:54
Speaker 1: with his fingers.
16:55
Speaker 2: And change the channel, breaking news to report the night
16:59
Speaker 2: out of Texas. Charles by Harrilson has been found Jumpy
17:01
Speaker 2: for the nineteen sixty eight murder of Samuel and Degallia Junior.
17:05
Speaker 2: He has been sentenced to fifteen.
17:06
Speaker 1: Years in prison for Woody Harrelson turned the car radio up,
17:10
Speaker 1: leaned his head in toward the speaker. Did he just
17:13
Speaker 1: hear what he thought he heard? Charles V. Harrelson? Could
17:17
Speaker 1: it be? How many Charles V. Harrelson's were there in
17:20
Speaker 1: the world? Nah, it couldn't It couldn't be. His father
17:23
Speaker 1: may have been a dead beat to his family, or
17:25
Speaker 1: just a faded memory to Woody, But he wasn't a killer, right.
17:29
Speaker 1: Woody looked out the window and searched the parking lot
17:31
Speaker 1: for his mom's friend, the one who had picked him
17:34
Speaker 1: up from school to bring him home. She had stopped
17:36
Speaker 1: to run an errand and left him alone in the car.
17:38
Speaker 1: Then the report and the radio amplified just how alone
17:41
Speaker 1: he fell. His stomach began to turn. He dug his
17:44
Speaker 1: fingers into his palms and made a fist. He knew
17:47
Speaker 1: something wasn't right. He knew deep down that something was
17:49
Speaker 1: horribly wrong. He didn't know if he should be sad
17:52
Speaker 1: or if he should be angry, And sometimes he couldn't
17:55
Speaker 1: tell the difference between the two. It was nineteen seventy three, Lebanon, Ohio.
18:01
Speaker 1: Woody Harrelson was twelve years old. It had been years
18:05
Speaker 1: since he'd heard from his father, let alone seen him. Regardless,
18:08
Speaker 1: he felt a connection a son to a father. Maybe
18:11
Speaker 1: it wasn't actually there, but he felt it. He wanted
18:15
Speaker 1: to feel. It could be wishful thinking. Woody and Charles
18:18
Speaker 1: were both born on the same day, July twenty third.
18:22
Speaker 1: Wood He thought about how someone once told him that
18:24
Speaker 1: the Japanese had this belief that if a son was
18:26
Speaker 1: born on his father's birthday, he wasn't like his father,
18:29
Speaker 1: he was his father. Wild to think somewhere out there
18:34
Speaker 1: there was a man who was just like him, only
18:37
Speaker 1: a little older. But if they were exactly alike, and
18:40
Speaker 1: if Charles V. Harrelson was in fact a convicted murderer,
18:44
Speaker 1: and what did that say about Woody? His fist got tighter.
18:48
Speaker 1: He felt sick. He wasn't paying attention. When the driver's
18:51
Speaker 1: side door opened, he jumped. His mother's friend got back
18:55
Speaker 1: in the car. She looked over at him and wood
18:58
Speaker 1: He looked like he was in shock. She asked him
19:00
Speaker 1: what had happened? Was he all right? Wood He paused
19:03
Speaker 1: to collect his thoughts and then said, what do you
19:06
Speaker 1: know about my father. We'll be right back after this.
19:12
Speaker 1: We were were. The blessing in the curse of playing
19:20
Speaker 1: a memorable TV character over the course of many seasons
19:23
Speaker 1: in many years is that the character never leaves you.
19:27
Speaker 1: Just ask Peter Falk. He starred in amazing films by
19:30
Speaker 1: a tours like John Cassavettis and Vim Venders, but to
19:34
Speaker 1: most he'll always be Colombo, Tom Selleck will always be
19:38
Speaker 1: Magnum p I, George Reeves, Christopher Reeves Superman both to
19:42
Speaker 1: the end, and after eight years playing a country bumpkin
19:46
Speaker 1: bar back on Cheers, Woody Harrelson could have very easily
19:49
Speaker 1: been Woody Boyd the rest of his life. Instead, when
19:52
Speaker 1: the long running NBC sitcom wound down in the early
19:55
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties, Woody pursued film roles that aggressively played against tight.
20:00
Speaker 1: He played a street hustler on the half court next
20:03
Speaker 1: to Wesley Snipes and White Men Can't Jump. He let
20:05
Speaker 1: Robert Redford sleep with his wife for a million dollars
20:08
Speaker 1: in a decent proposal, and then he obliterated any remaining
20:13
Speaker 1: trace of Woody Boyd with a chilling performance as a
20:15
Speaker 1: natural born killer in Oliver Stone's controversial and hyper violent
20:19
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four film. It was a role that was
20:22
Speaker 1: as different from Woody Boyd as Kirsty Ally was from
20:25
Speaker 1: Shelley Long. I thought he was sort of a psychostone
20:28
Speaker 1: said at the time when asked about the left field
20:30
Speaker 1: casting choice. That's why I liked him. His eyes were
20:33
Speaker 1: kind of blue and blank. Woody Harrelson had his father's
20:38
Speaker 1: eyes naturally, even Viada only had the opportunity to look
20:41
Speaker 1: into his father's eyes a handful of times. In his
20:44
Speaker 1: entire life, Charles Harrelson was doing hard time, not for
20:48
Speaker 1: the murder of carpet salesman Alan Berg, for which he
20:51
Speaker 1: was acquitted in nineteen seventy and not for the murder
20:54
Speaker 1: of grainbroker Sam Deguillia Junior, the one that wood he
20:56
Speaker 1: heard about on a cart radio when he was a kid,
20:59
Speaker 1: for which Charles curt five years of a fifteen year sentence.
21:02
Speaker 1: They let him out in nineteen seventy eight on account
21:04
Speaker 1: of good behavior. It only took a few years for
21:07
Speaker 1: Charles's behavior to go from good to bad again, and
21:10
Speaker 1: once again it was behind bars, and this time it
21:14
Speaker 1: looked like he was there to stay. The fate of
21:17
Speaker 1: Charles Harrilson weighed heavily on Woody Harrelson's mind in nineteen
21:20
Speaker 1: ninety seven when he appeared on Barbara walters annual pre
21:23
Speaker 1: Oscars television special Wood. He was nominated that year for
21:28
Speaker 1: his first Academy Award for another type breaking role, this
21:32
Speaker 1: one as the real life head honcho of Hustler magazine
21:35
Speaker 1: and the People versus Lotry Flint. What he was thinking
21:38
Speaker 1: of his father again, because Barbara Walters had brought him up,
21:42
Speaker 1: it's fairly well known. Walters said, if anybody's read anything
21:45
Speaker 1: about you or talked with you that your father went
21:48
Speaker 1: off to prison convicted of murder, and tell me how
21:51
Speaker 1: you feel today and what the story is today. What
21:55
Speaker 1: he paused and took a deep breath. The last thing
21:57
Speaker 1: anyone wanted to discuss was how their father was a
22:00
Speaker 1: convicted murderer. It was a sensitive subject. And even though
22:04
Speaker 1: Charles Harrelson was who he was, a hitman, a non
22:07
Speaker 1: presence in his family's life, Wood he wasn't entirely convinced
22:10
Speaker 1: that he was guilty of his most recent crime. Like
22:13
Speaker 1: when Wood he was in first grade and a teacher
22:15
Speaker 1: blamed him for theft just because he had that reputation,
22:19
Speaker 1: would He struggled to find a way to collect his
22:21
Speaker 1: thoughts coherently. Well, he is in prison right now for
22:25
Speaker 1: the killing of a federal judge, which, well, I don't
22:28
Speaker 1: think it was a fair trial, especially because the guy
22:30
Speaker 1: who supposedly hired my father to commit the murder was
22:33
Speaker 1: later acquitted on a retrial. Barbara Walters doubled down. Woody,
22:38
Speaker 1: do you think your father is innocent. I'm not saying
22:41
Speaker 1: my father's a saint wood, he replied, but I think
22:44
Speaker 1: he's innocent to that one. That one would be the
22:48
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine assassination of federal Judge John H. Wood,
22:52
Speaker 1: a crime for which Charles Harrelson was now serving two
22:55
Speaker 1: life sentences. Seventeen years before interview with Barbara Walters. In
23:01
Speaker 1: September of nineteen eighty, Charles was arrested after a six
23:05
Speaker 1: hour standoff with police in Texas near the Mexican border.
23:09
Speaker 1: He was in a state of cocaine induced paranoia. He
23:12
Speaker 1: thought the corvette he was driving was bugged, so he
23:15
Speaker 1: pulled it over and shot it up. This caught the
23:18
Speaker 1: attention of the authorities, who had already pegged Charles's suspect
23:22
Speaker 1: numero uno in the murder of Judge wood The search
23:25
Speaker 1: for Charles lasted more than a year and cost upwards
23:28
Speaker 1: of twelve million dollars, one of the largest federal man
23:31
Speaker 1: hunts in history. The prosecution later claimed that Charles was
23:35
Speaker 1: paid two hundred and fifty thousand dollars from a Texan
23:38
Speaker 1: drug lord facing a life sentence for drug smuggling to
23:41
Speaker 1: quietly get rid of the judge, who had a reputation
23:44
Speaker 1: for harsh sentences. But when police found Charles on the
23:48
Speaker 1: side of the road, he was anything but quiet. He
23:51
Speaker 1: was ranting and raving. He was waving a gun around.
23:54
Speaker 1: He stuck the gun under his chin and threatened to
23:56
Speaker 1: blow his own brains out, and this went on for hours.
24:00
Speaker 1: During that time, Charles admitted to committing murder, but not
24:03
Speaker 1: just the murder of a judge. Charles Harrelson also confessed
24:07
Speaker 1: to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Hold up,
24:14
Speaker 1: you heard that right. Woody Harrelson's father, contract killer in
24:17
Speaker 1: the subject of a massive federal manhunt, called a coked
24:20
Speaker 1: up audible during a six hour standoff with police and
24:23
Speaker 1: admitted to killing jfk. After his arrest, the sober Charles
24:28
Speaker 1: offered an explanation. At the same time, I said I
24:30
Speaker 1: had killed the judge, I said I killed Kennedy, which
24:32
Speaker 1: might give you an idea as to the state of
24:34
Speaker 1: my mind at the time. Charles told a Dallas TV
24:36
Speaker 1: station it was an effort to elongate my life. But
24:40
Speaker 1: Charles's explanation didn't stop the elongation of conspiracy theories that
24:44
Speaker 1: sprouted up around his roadside confession. One theory that has
24:48
Speaker 1: gained traction over the years was that Charles was one
24:50
Speaker 1: of three tramps arrested for vagrancy near the Texas school
24:54
Speaker 1: Book Depository on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three. The
24:58
Speaker 1: tramp theory gave truthers pa pause. Was Charles Harrelson actually
25:02
Speaker 1: present the day JFK was shot? Was he actually telling
25:06
Speaker 1: the truth during that police stand off? It wasn't the
25:09
Speaker 1: only crazy theory about Charles Harrelson's mysterious past. Back in
25:13
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, Barbara Walters asked Woody Harrelson about his
25:17
Speaker 1: claim that his father was actually a CIA operative. Wood
25:21
Speaker 1: He nodded his head. How did he know where was
25:24
Speaker 1: the proof? Woody smiled and his head went from a
25:27
Speaker 1: nod to a shake. Nah, see, I shouldn't get into
25:30
Speaker 1: this right now, he said, This is where we're going
25:33
Speaker 1: to get into trouble. Woody Harrelson knew trouble. He was
25:38
Speaker 1: born on the same day as his troubled and troublesome father,
25:41
Speaker 1: after all, which meant they weren't simply alike. They were
25:44
Speaker 1: the same. But the trouble that wood he was facing
25:47
Speaker 1: wasn't the kind you can simply chalk up to being
25:49
Speaker 1: young and dumb. Not like that time when he was
25:52
Speaker 1: twenty years old, jaywalking with a friend stopped by a cop.
25:55
Speaker 1: Wanted to see some id wood. He had his license
25:57
Speaker 1: on him, but told the cop he didn't why, why
26:00
Speaker 1: the fuck not. When the cop found out what he
26:03
Speaker 1: was lying, he threw him up against a wall and wood.
26:05
Speaker 1: He wriggled free and bolted why. He didn't know why,
26:09
Speaker 1: It was just the reaction hardwired inside of him. Within minutes,
26:12
Speaker 1: he was surrounded on the ground, kneeded the throat handcuffed.
26:16
Speaker 1: They tossed him in the paddy wagon, which he did
26:18
Speaker 1: sit in for a little while, But when the paddy
26:20
Speaker 1: wagon made a stop to pick up some drunk and
26:21
Speaker 1: disorderly kids in the back door, swing wide Wood he ran.
26:25
Speaker 1: The handcuffs kind of made it more fun, honestly, and
26:28
Speaker 1: he ran so hard he thought his chest would explode.
26:30
Speaker 1: He heard the cops behind him, gaining their feet flat
26:33
Speaker 1: and loud, their voices even louder, and Wood, he didn't
26:35
Speaker 1: notice the car. It came from the right, out of nowhere,
26:38
Speaker 1: directly in his path. His body hid it with a smack.
26:41
Speaker 1: He felt the nose of the thing dent his ribs.
26:43
Speaker 1: His body rolled over the hood, and then he hit
26:45
Speaker 1: the pavement head first. And as he figured out a
26:48
Speaker 1: way to use his cuffed hands to clutch his aching
26:49
Speaker 1: head and his bruised ribs, it seemed like a whole
26:52
Speaker 1: precinct stood over him, and the mace rained down and
26:55
Speaker 1: burned his skin. Nah Wood, he was no longer twenty,
26:59
Speaker 1: He was thirty six. He had grown up troubles now, like,
27:03
Speaker 1: how does his son reconcile with a father who was
27:05
Speaker 1: not only absent, but was objectively not a good person
27:08
Speaker 1: at all? What do you do with all this anger
27:10
Speaker 1: you feel, the kind you've carried around with you since
27:13
Speaker 1: you were a little kid. You know better than to
27:15
Speaker 1: let it out, let it have a voice, but it's
27:17
Speaker 1: a part of you, and just who are you and
27:21
Speaker 1: why do you feel like you have no control over
27:24
Speaker 1: the person you've become. In nineteen ninety five, Charles Harrelson
27:44
Speaker 1: attempted to escape from the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary, where he
27:47
Speaker 1: was serving two life sentences for the assassination of Judge
27:51
Speaker 1: John H. Wood. He crafted a ladder out a rope
27:54
Speaker 1: and hoisted himself over a wall. A guard caught him
27:57
Speaker 1: in the middle of his great escape and fired off
28:00
Speaker 1: a warning shot. Charles put his hands in the air
28:02
Speaker 1: and surrendered to his fate. That fate was an immediate
28:06
Speaker 1: transfer to the United States Penitentiary Administrative Maximum Facility in Florence, Colorado,
28:12
Speaker 1: a supermax prison that was notoriously escape proof. With no
28:17
Speaker 1: chance of busting out of a supermax joint, Charles instead
28:20
Speaker 1: found refuge in isolation. Besides, what the hell did he
28:24
Speaker 1: think he was going to do on the outside? Kill
28:26
Speaker 1: again for money and then blow it all gambling again,
28:28
Speaker 1: and then repeat the cycle until the debts he would
28:31
Speaker 1: eventually got him killed On the inside, he had no
28:34
Speaker 1: other debts to settle besides the one he was paying
28:36
Speaker 1: for with the remaining years of his life. He had
28:39
Speaker 1: no contracts left to carry out. Silence is wonderful, he
28:43
Speaker 1: wrote in a letter to a friend. Being left alone
28:45
Speaker 1: is great. Nobody bothers me. Two thousand and two, London.
28:54
Speaker 1: Woody Harrelson just wanted some of that wonderful silence and
28:57
Speaker 1: to be left alone. As he sat in the back
28:59
Speaker 1: of a taxi in Piccadilly Square a few days earlier.
29:02
Speaker 1: He chose not to be alone. Big fucking mistake. He
29:06
Speaker 1: wound up in a compromising situation with three other women.
29:10
Speaker 1: A paparazzo sold a steamy photo of the encounter to
29:13
Speaker 1: a UK tabloid. Wood He's lapse in judgment nearly cost
29:16
Speaker 1: him his relationship with his longtime girlfriend. Had suited to
29:19
Speaker 1: be wife. She forgave him, but he knew he'd let
29:22
Speaker 1: her down. He let himself down? And what was he doing?
29:26
Speaker 1: Who the hell was he was? He? Woody boy, blissfully
29:29
Speaker 1: unaware of the double entandras flying around and behind the
29:32
Speaker 1: bar or cheers, the mescalin popping psychopath from natural born Killers,
29:36
Speaker 1: the bowler with the prosthetic hand and kingpin. What was
29:39
Speaker 1: he laid back? Texas boy who sang the praises of
29:42
Speaker 1: all things hemp and got high with Willie Nelson on
29:44
Speaker 1: his tour bus. And maybe he was all of those things,
29:48
Speaker 1: but he hoped he was also a good son. His
29:51
Speaker 1: mother told him he was his entire life. She told
29:53
Speaker 1: him so, even when he got himself kicked out of school,
29:56
Speaker 1: but he lacked the validation from his dad, and he
30:00
Speaker 1: couldn't even help his dad out. And no matter how
30:02
Speaker 1: I already tried. He did help in small ways, like
30:05
Speaker 1: when he served as a proxy for Charles in nineteen
30:07
Speaker 1: eighty seven so that he could get remarried from behind bars,
30:11
Speaker 1: but his larger efforts failed. He spent millions of dollars
30:14
Speaker 1: trying to get Charles a new trial. He even found
30:17
Speaker 1: a sympathetic judge, but after the judge and Woody respotted
30:20
Speaker 1: playing a spur of the moment game of pickup basketball,
30:23
Speaker 1: the judge removed himself over concerned that the friendly match
30:26
Speaker 1: would be seen as biased. Everything fell apart after that,
30:30
Speaker 1: which sucked because despite who Charles was and what he
30:33
Speaker 1: had done, there were things that didn't sit right with
30:35
Speaker 1: Woody about this conviction. The judge who presided over his
30:39
Speaker 1: original trial was allegedly a pallbearer. A judge Woods's funeral
30:43
Speaker 1: talk about bias. He was also said that the recording
30:46
Speaker 1: on which Charles was fingered as the hired hitman, was
30:48
Speaker 1: obtained illegally. Wood He felt the back seat did the
30:52
Speaker 1: taxi gets small? He told the cabby to stop. He
30:55
Speaker 1: wanted a bail and the cabby told Woody to hang on.
30:58
Speaker 1: And they were in the middle of four LANs traffic
31:00
Speaker 1: and he had to pull over to the side of
31:01
Speaker 1: the road first. Nah what he wanted out now. He
31:06
Speaker 1: tried to open the door, but it was locked, and
31:08
Speaker 1: the cabby was yelling at him to hold on, and
31:10
Speaker 1: when he yelled back, he tried the door handle again,
31:13
Speaker 1: still locked, and the interior the taxi swallowed him. When
31:16
Speaker 1: his heart rate doubled, he kicked at the door and
31:19
Speaker 1: the taxi swerved as the cabby panicked. But wood he
31:22
Speaker 1: kicked the door again that it buckled and one more
31:24
Speaker 1: kick would do it. He thrust his foot forward again
31:27
Speaker 1: the door swung open or when he jumped out into
31:30
Speaker 1: the bust in London night, the cabby followed in hot pursuit.
31:34
Speaker 1: So much for being left alone and what he ran.
31:36
Speaker 1: He held another taxi and jumped in, and the taxi
31:39
Speaker 1: with the broken door was right behind him. Soon other
31:42
Speaker 1: vehicles joined the chase, a police car and then another,
31:45
Speaker 1: then another, and six London police cars in total, lights
31:49
Speaker 1: flashing and sirens wailing. The distinctly European sirens sounds so
31:53
Speaker 1: frustratingly foreign. Fifteen years later, in twenty seventeen, a decade
32:00
Speaker 1: after Charles Harrelson died of a heart attack while still
32:03
Speaker 1: in Supermac's lock up, Woody Harrelson used the true story
32:07
Speaker 1: of the night he led police on a chase and
32:09
Speaker 1: then spent in a London jail as the basis for
32:13
Speaker 1: a dark comedy called Lost in London. Turning the self
32:17
Speaker 1: described worst night of his life into a cathartic film
32:20
Speaker 1: project was an exercise in learning who he had been
32:23
Speaker 1: in the past and who he wanted to become, someone
32:27
Speaker 1: better than before he could use the future to make
32:31
Speaker 1: up for the past and to make up for any
32:34
Speaker 1: past disgrace. I'm Jake Brennan in this his Disgraceland. All right,
32:55
Speaker 1: thanks for checking out this episode of Disgraceland. I hope
32:58
Speaker 1: you guys dug it. This week's question of the week
33:00
Speaker 1: is who do you think killed JFK And why was
33:04
Speaker 1: it Woody's dad? If not, who was what are your
33:06
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories. I want to know. I don't care how
33:09
Speaker 1: outlandis day are. Hit me up, let me know six
33:11
Speaker 1: one seven nine h six six six three eight, leave
33:14
Speaker 1: me a voicemail, send me a text. We'll get into
33:15
Speaker 1: it in the after party. Let me know. You can
33:17
Speaker 1: also reach me at disgracelampod as well on Instagram, X
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33:26
Speaker 1: here come some credits. Disgraceland was created by Yours Truly
33:31
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33:34
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33:36
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