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9/80 Schedules: The Real Test Is Trust · The Science of Leading

• 0:00
  Welcome to the show.
• 0:00
  I'm Claire Monroe, here with Edwin Carrington.
• 0:02
  And Edwin, this one stopped me mid-scroll: give people a three-day
• 0:02
  weekend
• 0:06
  every other week, and suddenly retention improves... without touching salary.
• 0:10
  But apparently it only works if leaders stop judging productivity by
• 0:14
  who's still pretending to work at 4:47 p.
• 0:14
  m.There's the catch.
• 0:19
  The 9/80 schedule isn't really about time.
• 0:22
  It's about trust.
• 0:23
  On paper, it's simple: 80 hours spread across nine days instead of ten.
• 0:28
  Usually four nine-hour days, one eight-hour day,
• 0:32
  then every other Friday off.
• 0:34
  Same total hours, completely different rhythm.
• 0:37
  And that shift forces a deeper question about how work is actually measured.
• 0:37
  The
• 0:43
  "nine days" part is what messes with my brain.
• 0:45
  Fewer workdays, same hours.
• 0:47
  So employees hear "long weekend," which is great.
• 0:50
  But what should a leader hear when they agree to this?
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  They should hear:
• 0:55
  "Are we ready to measure outcomes instead of presence?" Because the moment
• 0:59
  you introduce a 9/80, you're saying being seen is not the same as contributing.
• 1:03
  And that sounds progressive... until coverage gets thin,
• 1:07
  or someone can't physically see their team,
• 1:09
  and suddenly everyone panics and reverts to old habits.
• 1:09
  That makes sense.
• 1:14
  Because from the employee side,
• 1:16
  it's a strong offer.
• 1:17
  Less commuting, more flexibility,
• 1:19
  more breathing room for actual life.
• 1:21
  And in hiring, that kind of signal matters,
• 1:23
  especially if you can't just outspend competitors.
• 1:23
  It matters a great
• 1:27
  deal.
• 1:28
  If compensation is similar and one company offers a built-in three-day
• 1:32
  weekend every other week, that stands out.
• 1:35
  Not as a gimmick, but as a quality-of-life signal.
• 1:38
  Lower commuting costs, less transition time,
• 1:42
  better balance if it's designed properly.
• 1:44
  It's one of the few levers that can improve perception without inflating
• 1:48
  payroll.
• 1:48
  You said "if it's designed properly," which feels like the part
• 1:53
  people gloss over.
• 1:54
  Because those longer days... nine hours isn't nothing.
• 1:58
  For some roles, that's manageable.
• 2:00
  For others, it's a stretch.
• 2:00
  That's where things get uncomfortable.
• 2:04
  Not all hours are equal just because they fit neatly into a schedule.
• 2:08
  In some roles, that ninth hour is where fatigue shows up,
• 2:12
  mistakes increase, and patience drops.
• 2:14
  Especially in customer-facing or high-pressure environments.
• 2:18
  If you ignore that, the schedule stops being a benefit and starts becoming
• 2:22
  a burden.
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  And from the employee perspective,
• 2:25
  uneven flexibility can feel worse than none at all.
• 2:28
  If one team gets the full benefit and another is told to "figure it out,"
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  that's not flexibility.
• 2:34
  That's frustration.
• 2:34
  Exactly.
• 2:36
  And frustration quickly becomes a trust issue.
• 2:39
  Once flexibility is uneven or poorly defined,
• 2:43
  people start comparing.
• 2:44
  Who gets what, why, and under what conditions.
• 2:48
  Managers improvise.
• 2:50
  Exceptions multiply.
• 2:52
  At that point, you're not running a system.
• 2:55
  You're negotiating case by case.
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  A negotiation system disguised as policy.
• 3:00
  Which usually means the loudest or most senior people get the cleanest
• 3:03
  version of the benefit.
• 3:03
  That's typically how it plays out.
• 3:07
  Which is why the real question isn't "Will people like this?" They will.
• 3:12
  The question is whether you can define it clearly enough to keep it fair.
• 3:16
  Eligibility, coverage, expectations.
• 3:20
  Without that, flexibility becomes inconsistency.
• 3:20
  So before rolling this
• 3:26
  out, leaders need to stress-test the entire system underneath it.
• 3:29
  Are we measuring output?
• 3:31
  Do we know where coverage has to be continuous?
• 3:33
  Are managers aligned?
• 3:34
  Is this actually going to feel fair across teams?
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  That's the real work.
• 3:39
  And it's where tools can help.
• 3:41
  If you're trying to figure out whether a 9/80 schedule actually fits
• 3:45
  your team, oad.
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  ai is a practical place to start.
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  Not because software solves culture,
• 3:51
  but because it helps you evaluate fit before you make a decision that
• 3:54
  affects operations, morale, and retention.
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  That idea of evaluating before
• 3:59
  announcing... that's probably where most companies skip ahead.
• 4:02
  The concept sounds good, so they jump straight to rollout.
• 4:02
  And then reality
• 4:07
  shows up.
• 4:07
  Because this lives or dies on operations.
• 4:11
  Time tracking, overtime, holidays,
• 4:14
  sick leave, coverage gaps.
• 4:16
  Even basic questions like whether everyone shares the same off-Friday
• 4:20
  or rotates.
• 4:21
  None of that is exciting, but it determines whether the system holds.
• 4:21
  The
• 4:27
  shared Friday thing is bigger than it sounds.
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  If everyone's off at once, that's great for employees... but maybe not
• 4:33
  for customers.
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  If you stagger it, coverage improves,
• 4:35
  but you lose that shared experience.
• 4:35
  It's a genuine tradeoff.
• 4:39
  Shared time off strengthens the perceived benefit.
• 4:42
  Staggered schedules protect service levels.
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  Either way, it affects coordination,
• 4:48
  meetings, and how work flows.
• 4:50
  Leaders need to decide intentionally,
• 4:52
  not drift into whatever feels easiest.
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  And then there's compliance,
• 4:57
  which tends to make people quietly nervous.
• 4:59
  Can you explain the FLSA side without making it sound like a legal seminar?
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  In
• 5:04
  simple terms: overtime rules don't disappear because the schedule sounds
• 5:08
  clever.
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  Under FLSA, overtime still applies.
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  And in places like California,
• 5:15
  a 9/80 setup can require a formal employee election and structured HR
• 5:19
  process.
• 5:20
  So this isn't something you casually announce and hope works out."Formal
• 5:25
  employee election" is not a phrase anyone wants to stumble into accidentally.
• 5:29
  That's a call-to-HR moment.
• 5:29
  Exactly.
• 5:32
  Scheduling isn't just a cultural initiative.
• 5:35
  It's an operational and compliance decision.
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  The moment you change hours, documentation,
• 5:41
  policies, and payroll setups need to be precise.
• 5:44
  If they're not, trust erodes quickly.
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  So the smarter move is a pilot.
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  Not a full rollout based on optimism.
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  A pilot is almost always the better
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  approach.
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  Set clear goals.
• 5:55
  What are you trying to improve,
• 5:57
  retention, productivity, engagement?
• 6:00
  Define success in advance.
• 6:03
  Gather feedback.
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  Because if you don't, every outcome gets interpreted differently after
• 6:08
  the fact.
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  That happens all the time.
• 6:11
  One manager says, "People loved it." Another says,
• 6:14
  "Coverage was a mess." And now you're arguing with no real baseline.
• 6:14
  Exactly.
• 6:18
  Anecdotes are useful, but only if you have a framework to interpret them.
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  Let's
• 6:23
  talk where this actually works.
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  It seems like it fits better in knowledge work,
• 6:27
  project-based teams, environments where timing is flexible.
• 6:30
  But in things like banking, education,
• 6:32
  or shift-based roles... it gets complicated fast.
• 6:32
  That's the right distinction.
• 6:38
  When work is deadline-driven and somewhat controllable,
• 6:41
  9/80 can work well.
• 6:43
  When it depends on fixed schedules,
• 6:45
  client windows, or continuous coverage,
• 6:48
  it becomes harder.
• 6:49
  Not impossible, but more complex and often more costly than expected.
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  I'll
• 6:54
  push back slightly.
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  Even if the days are longer, a lot of employees still value that extra
• 6:58
  day off enough to stay.
• 7:00
  The trade can feel worth it.
• 7:00
  That's fair.
• 7:02
  The risk is when flexibility becomes disguised workload compression.
• 7:07
  If people are technically off on Friday but exhausted by Thursday,
• 7:11
  or spending the weekend recovering,
• 7:13
  the benefit becomes superficial.
• 7:15
  It improves sentiment without improving sustainability.
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  So the honest
• 7:19
  version is: the extra day helps retention,
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  but only if the workload is adjusted enough that those nine days still
• 7:25
  feel manageable.
• 7:25
  Exactly.
• 7:27
  Good leaders don't just rearrange hours.
• 7:30
  They redesign expectations so the system can actually work.
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  So the takeaway
• 7:35
  is pretty clear.
• 7:36
  Don't adopt a 9/80 because it sounds modern.
• 7:39
  Test it.
• 7:40
  Model coverage.
• 7:41
  Check compliance.
• 7:42
  Understand where fatigue might show up.
• 7:44
  And be honest about who benefits and who doesn't.
• 7:44
  And if you're wondering
• 7:47
  how to put this into practice, you can test OAD's tools,
• 7:51
  including behavioral assessments,
• 7:53
  for free at o-a-d-dot-a-i.
• 7:55
  It's a straightforward way to evaluate team fit before making changes
• 7:59
  that impact performance and retention.
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  Because in the end,
• 8:02
  flexibility isn't about optics.
• 8:04
  It's about whether people can do meaningful work and still have a life
• 8:08
  outside of it.
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  And if a system can't support both,
• 8:11
  it isn't really flexible.