Latest / Big Talk About Small Business / Ep. 11 - Dr. Nirmal Kilambi

Transcript

Ep. 11 - Dr. Nirmal Kilambi · Big Talk About Small Business

0:03
SPEAKER_02: All right, everybody.
0:04
SPEAKER_02: We're back again with another episode of Big Talk about Small Business.
0:11
SPEAKER_02: I used my radio voice just then.
0:13
SPEAKER_02: That's good.
0:14
SPEAKER_02: You said business this time.
0:15
SPEAKER_02: Every other time you said business.
0:17
SPEAKER_02: He said business.
0:18
SPEAKER_02: Somebody said that.
0:19
SPEAKER_02: No, I said business.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
0:25
SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Well, it's Big Talk About Small Business.
0:27
SPEAKER_02: And we're here on another Friday afternoon with a recording session in the beautiful studio of Podcast Videos.com.com.
0:37
SPEAKER_02: And here with my friends.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: Isn't that crazy?
0:41
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's great.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: I just got like last year.
0:43
SPEAKER_02: I thought Big Talk About Small Business was a great domain.
0:46
SPEAKER_03: No, it's a great domain, too.
0:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
0:47
SPEAKER_03: They're both great domains.
0:48
SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's right.
0:49
SPEAKER_03: Good.
0:49
SPEAKER_03: I just wasn't.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: Mark will figure out a way to monetize it.
0:52
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
0:53
SPEAKER_02: It's about cash.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: And you can't.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: Eric is going to monetize it.
0:56
SPEAKER_02: Well, I hear that it's you.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: No.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: I heard.
0:59
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're heard you're you know how to monetize this.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: Give us a minute now.
1:03
SPEAKER_02: We'll get into this.
1:04
SPEAKER_02: I got my co-host, Eric Howerton, here.
1:07
SPEAKER_02: What's up, Mark?
1:07
SPEAKER_02: As you all know.
1:08
SPEAKER_02: Glad to be here.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: Everything, me too.
1:10
SPEAKER_02: And then I also have my friend of a considerable number of years, as well as one of my physicians.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: Dr.
1:18
SPEAKER_02: Nurmal Colombi, who is a uh established himself here in Northwest Arkansas as the leading urologist, but he's also a very entrepreneurial guy and quite a cool guy, as you can see.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: Very cool.
1:31
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: I like that.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: I like that introduction.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: I'll try to live up to that.
1:37
SPEAKER_01: So, Nermal, you you grew up here in Fayetteville, didn't you?
1:40
SPEAKER_01: I tried.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: I was born and raised in Fayetteville, Arkansas.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: We won't say the year.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I can tell you that that time the phone book was about six inches high and about a centimeter thick, and I've got the phone book from the month and year that I was born.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: Oh, nice.
1:54
SPEAKER_03: That's cool.
1:55
SPEAKER_03: That's a good collection.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: That's a good idea, actually.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: So dad kept it.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: Your dad was a professor, right?
2:00
SPEAKER_01: That's exactly right.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: He came here in 1966 and was a professor for 35 years at the University of Arkansas, and the department at that time of zoology eventually became biological sciences.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: And my mother got a master's uh at the University of Arkansas in counseling and and worked at the University um Bullens Library for many years before they both event eventually retired.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you've got like what, two or three brothers?
2:25
SPEAKER_01: Got two older brothers, both of whom were born in Seattle, Washington, where my dad got his PhD before coming to family.
2:32
SPEAKER_02: So you were the youngest, though?
2:33
SPEAKER_02: Um the youngest.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: That explains a lot.
2:36
SPEAKER_02: I'm the youngest.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: I am too.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: What's going to do that?
2:40
SPEAKER_01: And we're all doing a podcast on a Friday afternoon.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: It's interesting.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
2:45
SPEAKER_03: Sounds like some sort of spoiled young sibling movie, right?
2:49
SPEAKER_02: We used to record these earlier on Friday, but Eric pushed them out.
2:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:53
SPEAKER_02: And so he screwed every afternoon up on Friday.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: But other than that, I love it.
2:57
SPEAKER_02: Do we need to go back?
2:58
SPEAKER_02: Because that's not a problem.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: I couldn't have made it otherwise.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: I was, you know, doing some vasectomies a little bit earlier, so I wouldn't have been able to make it if it hadn't been one o'clock.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
3:08
SPEAKER_03: That's not something I would ever have.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: My goal is to see if you guys can well if I could say something and make you guys stop talking and be surprised.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, I don't.
3:17
SPEAKER_03: This can be hard.
3:17
SPEAKER_03: I mean, Zwag, though, you can kind of catch him, man.
3:20
SPEAKER_03: Like you can you can get him back in the corner and he doesn't know what to say.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: That's true.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: I'm not quite as fast on my feet as either of you two.
3:26
SPEAKER_02: No, I know that's not true.
3:27
SPEAKER_02: But so now these vasectomies you did today, are they reversible ones, or are they like rip all the plumbing out and forget it?
3:36
SPEAKER_01: I know you can do both, right?
3:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, you know, presumably when they come in there, you want it to not be reversible, right?
3:42
SPEAKER_01: So I do everything I can to come come back together again.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: That can happen.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: That's a very rare risk.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: One in three thousand, but surprise.
3:50
SPEAKER_03: Uh there's so you do irreversible asectomies.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: Well, you try, but you know, like I said, they can spontaneously recannulate and then somebody comes up pregnant.
3:59
SPEAKER_01: But I will tell you statistically, the chances of that kid being that person's is uh uh a lot uh uh lower than the actual vase recannelizing.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: So genetics needs to happen if that happens.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
4:12
SPEAKER_02: You just totally blew my mind.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: I'm a little bit older than you, Eric, but I don't know if you've run into this yet with your friends.
4:17
SPEAKER_02: But some of them have had vasectomies, they talk about it constantly.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: Do they in front of everybody and I I just don't know?
4:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't think that's right.
4:27
SPEAKER_03: No, that's right.
4:28
SPEAKER_03: That's nobody's business.
4:29
SPEAKER_03: You know what I call that?
4:29
SPEAKER_03: Inappropriate.
4:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: I can tell you now we have so many demands for vasectomy post uh Dobbs decision.
4:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're living in Arkansas.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: It well, it's also unreal because and this is a nationwide deal that it's uh caused a lot of people to rethink things, and a lot of men are getting uh sterilized uh because they don't want the chance of uh them getting pregnant.
4:54
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
4:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, how do you keep up with all the things you do normally?
4:58
SPEAKER_02: You've got this urology practice and it's booming, obviously, demand is continuing to grow.
5:06
SPEAKER_02: I know you got some real estate uh investment properties of different types.
5:11
SPEAKER_02: Um you've got uh another business.
5:14
SPEAKER_02: Um tell us a little bit about the uh IV uh related supplement business that you have.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I've always been I've always enjoyed trying to do various things.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: And uh in Northwest Arkansas, you're all the associates and uh getting that is obviously a full-time gig.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: And then some.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: And so we're very busy.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: We me and my uh three partners are very busy operating and uh seeing patients.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: And we actually recently established a pelvic health clinic, which is the first in Northwest Arkansas.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: Pelvic health clinic.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: So for men and women with you know, urinary incontinence, pelvic pain, pelvic disorders, uh, they can come to this clinic and under one roof, we have a urogynecist.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: He was a gynecologist that did a uh urology training who does, has done more robotic sacroculpopexies or vaginal reconstruction than anybody else in the state.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Dr.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Hurt, and then myself and Dr.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: Breckelbaum and Dr.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: Uh Collins are urologists, and we all uh take care of uh urinary incontinence, obviously, and those types of disorders because we're experts in that.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: So, under that, um, that's kept us busy, and that's relatively new, and that's you know, we have a lot of business from that.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, we all do general urology, so you know, we all do robotic procedures and laparoscopic procedures, minimally invasive procedures for all of the cancer operations that we can do.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: So that's kept us busy, but I I've always enjoyed doing other things and keeping my mind act uh active as Mark and I have talked about for a long time.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: He's very similar, I would humbly suggest.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: Wide-ranging interest.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: Wide ranging interest, that's exactly right.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: And so I initially, when I was first in private practice in Hot Springs, I knew I was gonna get into real estate, so I did some real estate uh deals on the lake, and then I've still got some commercial property as well.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: And then when I came back to Fayetteville um in 2007, um I sort of continued that approach and uh did a few things.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: And lately that Marcus is referencing, a partner of mine, a business partner of mine of and a friend of at least 22 years, he's always come and uh talked to me.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: He's pretty well known in the franchise world.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: In fact, he's got uh about 59 or 60 sports clips throughout in multiple states, and uh he and his son were, for instance, uh on the franchise magazine as a fathered son, is they're into multi-unit franchising, and in this particular article, they're talking about pet supplies plus.
7:55
SPEAKER_01: In fact, the pet supplies plus here is their it's owned by them.
7:59
SPEAKER_01: And so I don't know what that is.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: It's a store for dog products and pet products.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like a it's like a pet smarter pet code.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: That's exactly right.
8:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: Except for Johnny Weber, who's the guy who would say it's it's better.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: It's better, right?
8:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: And so uh, but anyway, so I got talking to with him, and he's kind of known about certain talents I have, and and we both decided that uh this would be a good opportunity.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: So I got involved in a franchise called Prime IV Care Uh Wellness and Care Solutions, and um we just opened up a store in uh Frisco, Texas, and in Franklin, Tennessee.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Franklin where he's from.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: Boomtowns.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: And we're uh we've we're working on area development rights on some others, and we have some area development rights in South Florida and all of Tennessee right now.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: So uh each of these stores have medical directors, and uh that I'll be involved in that fairly, you know, in detail.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: Um obviously we'll have nurse practitioners.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: This is the what do they do?
9:06
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the concept that's a good question.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: So I mean I should get to that.
9:10
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: The concept is this company, which was out of Colorado Springs, uh, Steve and Amy Neary, they're the the CEOs uh of this company out of Colorado Springs, and actually a shark took notice of them and they've they've been sponsored or you know advertised by the shark.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: They started it, and it's a relatively new franchise.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: I think it started in 2020 or 2019, maybe somewhere around there.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: And the concept is um she her background was in labs and uh hellness and uh health wellness in general.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: And um the concept is coming into a sort of a spa atmosphere and getting some proprietary uh Ivy fluid solutions uh in a massage chair uh with some headphones and beautiful Zen type music.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: And uh athletes do this off the all the time.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: And there's certain components that you can have in these solutions that can kind of you know make you relaxed or give you energy, uh, get you hydrated.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: Interestingly, you're th with three guys in here, you would think that it's you know sort of a hangover place, but that's only about three percent of the market.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: It didn't even occur to me.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, you know, but you're you know, though back in your youth you probably would have thought about that.
10:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you got a lot of them in Vegas, so it's just in Vegas.
10:25
SPEAKER_03: Really?
10:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, a lot of IV yeah.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: Actually, there is a prime IV.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: There's one of those, yeah.
10:30
SPEAKER_03: In the Link Hotel by any chance, do you know?
10:32
SPEAKER_03: I'll find out.
10:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because I'm I know there's several there.
10:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: It's a blue sign.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: It's got a drip on the top, so it's pretty cool.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: And again, you know, uh we'll be we'll be opening up uh some here in this area very, very soon.
10:46
SPEAKER_03: I was gonna ask, why not in Northwest Arkansas?
10:48
SPEAKER_01: Well we we're we're in the process of uh I don't know if I should tell you this or not, but we're in the process of develop you know, having the area development rights for Arkansas and Oklahoma.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh where we've got that sort of negotiated, we've just got to get it done.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: And then once that happens, you know, when you have an area development right, you know, there's there's certain things we have to do to make sure that those that buy the franchises are taken care of.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: But then we're definitely gonna own, you know, between him and I as partners, the uh the stores up here in Northwest Arkansas for sure.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean there's several locations that will need to happen, the Little Rock and and elsewhere.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: But the concept is to uh is all about health and wellness and making sure that uh everybody is uh feeling good and uh feeling hydrated in a small atmosphere.
11:31
SPEAKER_01: In fact, uh within this concept are cryochambers too.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: And uh we're we're gonna be you know introducing that as well.
11:39
SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus Is that like isolation those uh floating uh deals or whatever they are?
11:44
SPEAKER_02: No, you're isolation changes.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: You get into the chamber itself, it's cold therapy.
11:48
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
11:48
SPEAKER_01: It's cryo cryotherapy.
11:50
SPEAKER_02: And uh I thought that's what they did, is they preserve your body so after um, you can be phyogenics.
11:56
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: So is that still different?
11:59
SPEAKER_03: Are you opening up a cryogenic?
12:01
SPEAKER_01: Listen, if I do that, then the first brain I will definitely preserve will be Mark Zweites.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Yes, guaranteed.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: I want to check out my own.
12:10
SPEAKER_03: We can do a podcast about it.
12:11
SPEAKER_03: We'll just open it up and just kind of talk about it.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: You're tired.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: That would be tired.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: No, no, that would be great.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so we're we're we're looking at we're doing it and we're um we we love the concept and uh you know we're all about multi-unit uh franchise uh within a franchise.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, buying one store is uh good.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: We the him and I are you know partnering in in uh trying to get multiple units and then getting area developments to and then ironically uh we're opening up uh he and I another franchise in Miami called um uh Red Phone Booth uh Cigar Bar Lounge.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: And it's gonna be open probably sometime in September in Miami.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: And we're pretty excited about that grand opening.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: I've already invited Mark to come with me for that grand opening if he can live.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: And Eric, you're welcome to do it too.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: It's a 6,500 square foot bar, and it's on it's it's on Instagram, and you can you can uh it's uh Brickle, Brickle, B-R-I-C-K-E-L-L on Instagram and uh Johnny Weber, that again my partner has uh done a good job marketing that.
13:27
SPEAKER_03: Is this the uh is this the original or really?
13:30
SPEAKER_03: This is the franchise.
13:30
SPEAKER_03: So this isn't a franchise.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: No, no, it's a national franchise.
13:32
SPEAKER_03: Oh, that it is.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it it is the original franchise, right?
13:35
SPEAKER_03: So there's one in Hashville and Okay, cool.
13:37
SPEAKER_03: You're doing this in Miami, though, right?
13:39
SPEAKER_03: This one's open in Miami, yes.
13:41
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
13:41
SPEAKER_03: So you own the franchising routes down in Miami.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Johnny's own the franchise.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm a small partner on the way.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: I got you.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: But it's ironic that we're gonna be opening up a bar and we also are So pollutes your body and that done X store and gets it.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: I had to lead you to that.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: But I was hoping I was subtle in this.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: Vertical integration.
13:59
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
13:59
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
14:00
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like my friend, he's an orthodontist who has a huge candy assortment.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: And uh Well, I'm a urologist too, so if I can vertically integrate that into all these other things that I'm doing, hey man.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, let me think about erectile dysfunction after hitting a bar.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, this there could be a lot of things there.
14:16
SPEAKER_02: No kidding.
14:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well it anyway.
14:19
SPEAKER_02: Or you the more fluids you take in, the more you urinate, and that can be a problem, right?
14:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
14:24
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
14:25
SPEAKER_02: Especially when you're my age.
14:27
SPEAKER_02: Um it's like people, I I always love it, you know, they they interview and they say, Well, what keeps you up at night, Eric?
14:34
SPEAKER_02: And I always say my prostate condition.
14:38
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
14:39
SPEAKER_02: Last night it was three times.
14:41
SPEAKER_02: No, it wasn't.
14:42
SPEAKER_02: But I I just like to say that.
14:44
SPEAKER_02: Went deep on this podcast.
14:46
SPEAKER_02: I do like to say that though.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: And the final thing, you know, the last thing I'll say that that that I'm that I'm involved in lately is um, you know, in in addition to being the managing partner of my group, which Mark knows that that keeps me pretty busy too, in in addition to just clinical medicine surgeries.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a big mistake.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: It is I mean it is, but you know, once obviously we've talked about this, most people that are decent at business are process driven.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: And I've spent a lot of time, especially since I've come back since 2007 to present, in creating processes uh that can be uh reproduced.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: In fact, I use that to open up with my wife, Arkansas Biomechanics and uh uh rehabilitation, which is down the street from my urology group.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: My wife is involved in that.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: We're 50-50 partners with the chiropractor there, and we just use the same processes that I put in the urology business.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: But what I was gonna get to on the process is I'm leading an effort now, it's not really well known, so I don't know.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: This is kind of a secret, so everybody should keep this as a secret.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: But as a joint venture uh ambulatory surgical center uh on the campus of Willow Creek.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: And we have uh, and I'm leading that effort as the doctor, uh, obviously there's uh the hospital system is gonna be involved, and we're in talks right now to get that done on campus, and I think it's gonna be a game changer because there's a lot of interest, unofficial and official interest.
16:09
SPEAKER_01: We're talking about maybe adding some medical office building space on top of this ambulatory surgical center, or perhaps doing the surgical center at the top floor.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: They would have a beautiful view to the right where this location is in Johnson, then the bypass would be readily they could see it.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: That's super convenient.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: It's got its own exit.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: It's right across the street from my office, so that's very convenient.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
16:32
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
16:33
SPEAKER_03: So what is ambulatory.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: Surgical saturation.
16:35
SPEAKER_01: Surgical center, what is that?
16:36
SPEAKER_01: ASC.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, uh we do you know, surgeons do cases, obviously, in the hospital.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: Some of which are are require hospital stays and a couple of day stays, I mean, especially certain cancer operations.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: But you know, in urology, we do so many different types of surgeries, you know, whether it's tiny procedures in our office such as vasectomy, when I say tiny, no pun intended.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: But also, you know, we could inspect.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: Exactly what I was thinking.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:02
SPEAKER_03: We're gonna make a joke, but I don't want to mess with your business.
17:07
SPEAKER_03: We'll edit one out of like, oh no, we'll be embellish stations.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, those types of things that are outpatient in urology, we do a ton of different stone operations.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: Um you know, even procedures for the prostate.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: I do green light lasers of the prostate, those types of things, they go home immediately.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: So coming into a hospital system, that's a big deal.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: Overhead, more hassle.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: They just come to your clinic then.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: No, no, they come to this ambulatory surgical center and you just drive up, you're dropped off, it's less of a burdensome because you're not with a bunch of hospitalized patients, sick people, right?
17:44
SPEAKER_02: Right.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: And you come in.
17:45
SPEAKER_02: And you can bring the surgeons in too.
17:47
SPEAKER_02: The surgeons don't have to do uh yeah, they can just schedule the the procedure there.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: At that location.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: You meet your surgeon, do it, you go home within a few hours and you're done.
17:56
SPEAKER_03: That's great.
17:57
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna I'm gonna pick a few of those for myself.
18:00
SPEAKER_03: Sounds like a good time.
18:02
SPEAKER_02: You've got I mean, what drives you?
18:05
SPEAKER_02: I mean, seriously, you don't need to do any of these things, okay?
18:09
SPEAKER_02: So you could just do your urology practice and nothing else.
18:13
SPEAKER_02: Well, why are you so driven?
18:15
SPEAKER_01: Well, uh Mark, you can you can obviously um relate to this.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that sometimes um there is just a natural curiosity or natural uh drive that makes you want to do something more, something different to keep you intellectually stimulated.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm a big reader, I like to read books.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh I like to go, you know, I've gotten back into fly fishing with a buddy of 30 years, and I just came back from the Grand Bahamas going bone fishing, and that bone fishing with a fly rod is kind of like hunting, and I find that challenging.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: And my wife and I are gonna go there in about a week or two.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: So I mean that attitude of having that challenge, you know, having a car that can go fast, those things that you know about me, those are things that are uh it's not necessarily thrill seeking always, but it's interesting to me.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: So if it aligns with my sort of ethics and goals and uh um then I like to look into it, you know, like I said, when Johnny Weber talked to me about this sort of prime IV wellness care solutions is really kind of aligns with what I want to do.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: You know, I've gone to bars before, so you know that that was interesting too to get involved.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: So, but but in all seriousness, to answer your question, I think it has to do with my background.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: Being a first generation American and maybe the youngest of three boys, uh, and watching your father's work ethic and the uh as an immigrant with an accent, probably one of the first, if not the first, person of color to be hired by the University of Arkansas.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: Wow, because my background is Indian, right, obviously.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: Uh in 1966, and um, you know, obviously there were challenges that you saw and heard about as a child.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: And then seeing that, you know, his and my mother's emphasis on sort of education and um making it in what is the greatest country in the world, right?
20:21
SPEAKER_01: Um you know, kind of puts a different perspective on things.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: You know, nothing was necessarily given other than the fact that the values of hard work and getting an education from my parents, yeah, um, and uh and obviously a comfortable, uh comfortable loving, dim, you know, unconditionally loving um situation with with my parents.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: I lost both of them within nine months of each other in 2021 and 2022.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: And I think probably if I had to put it into one sentence, I would say that would probably be the driving thing for me.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: Um and um and I think that's not unique.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, I read a lot of history, we talked about a lot of history together, and I think that one who is a student of history and understands, for instance, the from the 1500s to present our country and how it was shaped, uh, there were various, you know, people that came here, some voluntarily, some not, right, that that there was that drive, you know, the the West was was developed because of that drive.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: And I think that immigrants from the, you know, early immigrants from, you know, obviously England and Ireland and subsequently it Italy and Germany, right, and then recent immigrants uh that you know that came over.
21:49
SPEAKER_02: Mexico.
21:49
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: The Chinese you know built our railway here.
21:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: And then they had to go through the experience of having the Chinese Exclusion Act that didn't allow them to be citizens.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: That drives people.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Drives people into thing, you know what, I wanna I wanna prove that I'm as good as the next guy, and I'm talking about those immigrants because first generation Americans and obviously immigrants, they have a drive because they look at trying to put roots down in what we have as the greatest country in the world based on the uniqueness of our American experiment.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: We're we're where we have the three branches of government and we have checks and balances and that you know that usually stand up and work uh to make sure that there's justice for everybody, and that's unique, alongside with a capitalist country that has some regulation that allows each of us to be able to prosper, become wealthy, and become wealthy, and stay wealthy, stay wealthy, and that's the individualism that is great about our country that that allows somebody to do it.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: So I don't know, I think as an immigrant and as a first generation uh American, you'd have to be an idiot not to look into that if you have some intellect to try to to you know do the best you can and along the way uh take take care of people, treat people with kindness and respect, which I've taught my three kids from the moment they were born.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: And um and hopefully they'll they grew up to kind of sort of do the same thing.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: But you know, studies have shown, like I said, going back to the history, that second, third, fourth generation.
23:28
SPEAKER_03: I know.
23:29
SPEAKER_03: Well, I think that we forget the opportunity.
23:31
SPEAKER_03: I think.
23:32
SPEAKER_03: Right.
23:32
SPEAKER_03: I mean, if you come I mean it's just like anything, grass is greener, right?
23:36
SPEAKER_03: If you're born here, I mean it's kind of surprising, you know, that it's um I mean I guess I think one thing I can relate with you is my folks kind of l allowed me to experiment and play, right?
23:50
SPEAKER_03: There wasn't because they were loving, caring, providing, supporting.
23:54
SPEAKER_02: Mine were all that, but they were also burnt out.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: Which really helped because then they weren't on top of you.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: Right.
24:01
SPEAKER_02: That had a lot of freedom.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, freedom.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: That that and I will tell you this, and this is interesting that you get into this.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: There are really good studies on this.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: There are two types of parenting.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: One is the one that you just described, and the one I had, because my father was a professor, and he promoted discussion at the table.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: Promoted contrary views, um, respectfully delivered between the three of the kids and him and my mother.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: They both were educated.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: And then and that's a sort of a freewheeling discussion and allows a a young person to um explore those recesses of their mind and believe that anything's possible.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: The other one is an authoritarian, authoritarian rather, uh model.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: And there are really studies on this.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: There are books about this.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: And those people, um there's nothing wrong with either one.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: They're both they both exist and they both have pluses and minuses.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: But what these studies have shown is that on the authoritarian model, father the head of the house, traditional, you know, I'd say Judeo-Christian traditional method of uh uh child uh rearing, that that those people tend to seek out security when they're older.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: Even though they may rebel against it at the time, it's ingrained.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: And so they tend to follow Yeah, absolutely.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: And we're witness followers.
25:21
SPEAKER_02: They're not going to be entrepreneurs, then.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's right.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: They don't think about and then also they tend to believe certain people that have authority-like leanings.
25:35
SPEAKER_01: And if you look at people that tend to follow that, that are lemmings prehensile, you know, for lack of another word, yeah, you know, they tend to believe that because it's the father-centered, authoritarian-centered, it's my way.
25:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:49
SPEAKER_01: Why, why is that?
25:50
SPEAKER_01: Because I said it so.
25:52
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: Whereas in where perhaps you're raised, why is that dad?
25:56
SPEAKER_01: Well, let's talk about it.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: What do you think about it?
25:58
SPEAKER_01: And and again, it's now on the other side of it, that also can lend itself to to kids and to adults that may be entrepreneurs, but they also may be a little bit too free-spirited.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: They may have no display.
26:11
SPEAKER_02: They reject everything.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: They reject everything unless anarchy.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, you know, like I said, there's pluses and minuses.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: But but the but the negatives and the negative.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: And but the at the end of the day, these studies absolutely suggest that ways you are raised really influence everything from how you raise your children to your politics to your propensity or your leanings towards believing things without necessarily critical thinking.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: And we have a you know, we have a problem with lack of critical thinking.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that I can say from personal experience and business experience, and I think Mark probably agrees with this too, is you know, most people that can think critically tend to do better uh in business.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: I think so.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, and even even with the CEO, CFO mentality, obviously there's a hierarchy there.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: A CEO that is not open to discussion and let the team think things through, uh they probably gonna go off course.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
27:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
27:17
SPEAKER_03: So what what do you I believe when we say critical thinking, what do you give it as an example in a small business application that okay.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: Well, I just read a a very interesting um uh uh article, let's say, uh, from uh Mark.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: And uh he recently was discussing the difference between a business concentrating on growth versus concentrating on profit.
27:40
SPEAKER_03: Right.
27:41
SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I I think both are important.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, right?
27:45
SPEAKER_01: But if you're so let's let's kind of tie that into what we just talked about.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: A person that is a CEO type, that had that type of upbringing where it's a little bit okay, this is my limit, this is my pro this is my profit, let's stick to that because you know what, that's a healthy living, and that's good.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: He or she that has that, and I'm not saying it's sort of a linear course from how you're raised to that, but if you read these articles, certainly there's something to it.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: You know, we're all a product of how we're raised, and our parents influence.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was blessed with unconditionally loving, non-transactional parents.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: And that is I was too.
28:23
SPEAKER_01: And that I can that made me who I am.
28:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: So, in the former situation in this article, and I don't know, you know about this better than me, Mark, perhaps those people would be ones that would say, no, you know what, I've worked real hard for this.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to risk it.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to risk it.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: Let's keep it safe.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: I'm doing really well, better than my parents, and I want to pass something.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: Whereas where Mark comes in there and he's like, wait a second, here, you know, I've done some research about that particular brand.
28:52
SPEAKER_01: And I know in the in the world, or in the country at least, that brand um has this amount of desire or market share.
29:03
SPEAKER_01: And if you really believe in what you're doing, you know, I think I don't know, I paraphrase marking, you go for it.
29:11
SPEAKER_01: Right.
29:11
SPEAKER_01: You you don't you don't want to rest on your laurels, take a chance.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: It's a little bit of what I'm doing right now with these with these with these uh franchises, right?
29:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's right.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: I guess the only thing that's not risky right now is you know, operating, doing stuff.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: I mean that's my practice.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm you know, I'm sort of I know that stuff.
29:29
SPEAKER_02: Right.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: And so uh, you know, just to tie that into tie that into the personality and how you're raised.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if there's a there's a there's a direct deal there.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: It's very interesting.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: But I would think that there is.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: It's how we think things through.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: Just the critical thinker.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: And so a critical thinker would listen to answer your question.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: That critical thinker would be have the background that's open enough to hear something from Mark like that that's blowing their mind and go, wait a second here, and be able to critically think through everything gross revenue, net revenue, profitability, market share.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: Like he says, EBITDA.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: Not everything's based on EBITDA.
30:09
SPEAKER_01: In medicine, it is.
30:10
SPEAKER_01: A lot of things are sold based on EBITDA.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: ASCs, hospitals are based on a certain percentage of it.
30:16
SPEAKER_02: Buying any equipment that you buy, they're all the payback period on it.
30:20
SPEAKER_02: 100%.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: And so but that but he's saying something that's I wouldn't even say it's provocative.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: I think it's probably business smart, right?
30:29
SPEAKER_01: And and with the right product, I think you'd agree, and with the market right correct market analysis, you can grow that business and set yourself up here.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: And in medicine, I can relate to that because all we were taught growing up is what we call deferred gratification.
30:47
SPEAKER_02: You know, work your ass off, save your money.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, actually, you go to med school, go into debt, deal residency, top off at year six at$30,000 a year, being an MD, and you're deferring your gratification monetarily for sure.
31:01
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: But then you're deferring your gratification because eventually you're gonna be a private guy or work for a hospital and try to take care of people.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: But that's a 15-year deferral, right?
31:10
SPEAKER_01: Just in that same way, you're asking that business with that profit to say, hey, don't take it all right now.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: Defer that gratification because you got to look at the big picture.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean, tell me if I'm characterizing that wrong.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: But the thing is, it what I've found is when they do that, it doesn't take very long to really end up making far more than that.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: I mean, in the case I described in that article, those guys are more profitable as a percentage of revenue now than they were when they were one-tenth the size they are.
31:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:43
SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
31:44
SPEAKER_02: Things start to take on an effect, the compounding effect of just a few investments and deferrals, as you said, can be uh astronomical what comes out the other end.
31:56
SPEAKER_01: Conversely, you know, there may be that person that does not want to do that.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: They just they're they're happy.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: Again, that's not wrong either, as long as it's profitable.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: Not everybody's thinking big.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: Not everybody's thinking.
32:10
SPEAKER_02: I've had a lot, you know, I I'm not gonna say it's there's anything wrong with it.
32:13
SPEAKER_02: If you own the business, you can do whatever you want with it.
32:16
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
32:16
SPEAKER_02: But I will say this don't expect to keep really great people.
32:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's true.
32:22
SPEAKER_02: If your whole thing is, well, I don't really want to grow it.
32:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:25
SPEAKER_02: You know why?
32:26
SPEAKER_03: Because you put the ceiling on everybody, not just yourself.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: And this is another thing that goes back to why I do what I do and why you do.
32:33
SPEAKER_01: You take away incentive.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
32:35
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yes, you do.
32:36
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
32:36
SPEAKER_01: You take away incentive from a person for whatever it is, you take away everything.
32:42
SPEAKER_02: Anyone who's grown a business, which we all have here, knows we can't do everything.
32:48
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
32:48
SPEAKER_02: We need a team of people.
32:50
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you may be the rock star of the world.
32:52
SPEAKER_02: No.
32:52
SPEAKER_02: Somebody still no, you are hard, but somebody still got to do the billing and gotta try, you know, schedule patience and schedule operation, all the stuff that goes behind.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: My administrator was there at Northwest Arkansas Urology Associate, or my wife was here from Arkansas Biomechanics.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: They would tell you that one of the phrases I use, I'm sure you have too, is that when you hire somebody, you sort of have a responsibility to make sure that they are successful in that job.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: And I go further than that.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: It is a team, to your point.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:27
SPEAKER_01: And so everybody has their roles.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: No one person can do it all, right?
33:31
SPEAKER_01: Period.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: Not anything that's worth doing.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: And when you get that buy-in, that creates incentive, that can create rather pride.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: And then everybody rolls together, especially if they're compensated for their for their work.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things I always say is even if they don't make it in that particular job because it just wasn't a fit, you know, if you have a big enough organization, why don't you try to find where that person can fit?
33:59
SPEAKER_02: Another benefit of growth.
34:00
SPEAKER_02: And I'll tell you.
34:01
SPEAKER_02: You can find those places because when you're small, everybody's got to do what's a great thing.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:07
SPEAKER_02: And and you're in the right.
34:07
SPEAKER_02: And you don't know that turnover is a killer.
34:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, you want to have you don't know, you don't want to have to retrain.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: And we know you're going to go through those.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm going through that right now.
34:19
SPEAKER_02: He's in the software business.
34:20
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's everything.
34:21
SPEAKER_02: And you know, and there's so much demand for that talent and the crazy job opportunities that people have.
34:28
SPEAKER_02: I was talking with one of my friends yesterday who lives in LA now.
34:32
SPEAKER_02: He was a software developer, and I knew him back when I lived in Boston.
34:35
SPEAKER_02: He lived in Cambridge.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: Really smart guy.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure he's somewhere way out on the spectrum.
34:42
SPEAKER_02: Brilliant.
34:43
SPEAKER_02: Right.
34:43
SPEAKER_02: Brilliant, brilliant guy.
34:44
SPEAKER_02: Now he just has a sailboat out there and lives in Hollywood.
34:47
SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
34:48
SPEAKER_02: And his wife is a movie star.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
34:51
SPEAKER_02: Wife number three, like me.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: But uh congratulations.
34:55
SPEAKER_02: But anyway, he was telling me his son works for Third was the best.
34:59
SPEAKER_02: What is what is Facebook called now, Meta?
35:03
SPEAKER_02: He said his son makes 15 times more than he ever did in his job, that it's just staggering how much money he's also.
35:10
SPEAKER_02: Is he involved in thread desk?
35:12
SPEAKER_02: He's involved in software development.
35:13
SPEAKER_02: He just in fact he's he just left Meta and went to work for an AI company.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: But I mean, yeah, the demand is out there.
35:21
SPEAKER_02: The point is you can't when you have that attitude, I want to just keep it small and manageable or whatever.
35:27
SPEAKER_02: You know, maybe that makes you comfortable for a little while, but I do think there's something wrong with it because I think you hold everybody back.
35:34
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
35:35
SPEAKER_03: Well, you put that whole ceiling on.
35:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
35:37
SPEAKER_02: Nobody nobody wants to everybody's wanting to advance building honor and you know, or or you're not all gonna do what they need to do to capitalize on that opportunity, but you can at least try to provide it.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: I think you both are right for the people that are in this room.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna do I'm gonna proffer this.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: Not everybody is the three people in this room.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: And some people want a business that they can pass on, almost a mom and pop that's sustainable, and it's tough to do that now.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: And I'm just saying, I meant not wrong for those people that say, hey, this is the where I want to be limited, going back to what we said.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: And and I mean I wouldn't want to criticize that.
36:14
SPEAKER_02: No, I think you're right.
36:16
SPEAKER_02: You're stringing together these things, though, into sort of a coherent view of why people do what they do.
36:22
SPEAKER_02: We're in business, and it makes a lot of sense to me.
36:25
SPEAKER_02: But it's funny, I I think I told Eric this morning we were on the phone, and last night I was part of a panel discussion um uh out here at Pinnacle Country Club with these um, you know, uh wealth management guys.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: They brought in the big guns who do the estate planning, they do evaluation, they do all the wills, trusts, and estates and all that.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: And of course, we got into the family business thing.
36:54
SPEAKER_02: And it's really interesting.
36:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, it's something on the order of 80% of all businesses in the United States are actually family businesses.
37:03
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
37:04
SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
37:05
SPEAKER_02: It's small businesses.
37:06
SPEAKER_02: It it just has so many problems inherent with this passing it down.
37:10
SPEAKER_02: I got three kids.
37:11
SPEAKER_02: There was one couple there that had six kids in a blended family, two of them from one uh parent and four from another, and two were gonna be in the business and the other four weren't.
37:22
SPEAKER_02: And how do we deal with all those complexities?
37:25
SPEAKER_02: Absolute nightmare.
37:27
SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, that that whole um family business component is a is a huge thing.
37:34
SPEAKER_02: But I guess I'm a growth guy, okay?
37:37
SPEAKER_02: I like to grow, and you know, I I just I've my whole career, I have battled against some business owners who will tell me how smart they are and how they don't want to grow.
37:52
SPEAKER_02: And I can tell you, I've had the benefit of some cases of seeing those companies over a 43-year career, the same companies, and most of them end up going out of business.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I agree.
38:04
SPEAKER_02: They don't survive.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, one thing I would also say to talk to you about the critical thinking that is that is apart from business, and then I want to ask you guys a question because you brought something up about AI.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, the critical thinking, apart from the dollars and cents of business, is also, you know, how do you acquire knowledge?
38:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, we have an epistemological crisis in our country on how we understand fact.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: It's a branch of logic.
38:33
SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's terrible.
38:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:34
SPEAKER_02: And and alternative facts.
38:36
SPEAKER_02: Alternative facts.
38:37
SPEAKER_02: There are no alternative facts.
38:39
SPEAKER_02: There's facts and there's not facts.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: There's right, but if you're not a critical thinker, and I we can instead of getting into politics, I can say there are some people that again believe things without, you know, you talked about what drives me.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: Well, why do I read these books?
38:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, I read them on a variety of subjects and I look at all viewpoints, which is why when I answer a question, I say that's not right or wrong, because there are elements of facts that I can see that other person thinking about.
39:06
SPEAKER_02: And so when you're thinking about In our culture today, though, people don't do that.
39:10
SPEAKER_02: It's either you're good or you're bad based on this.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: Or if they if they're it's somebody part of our problem.
39:17
SPEAKER_01: That's it, and that's the critical thinking problem, right?
39:19
SPEAKER_01: So if somebody asserts something, right?
39:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, you're either gonna take it at face value or you're gonna have the intellectual curiosity and the critical thinking skills to research that and look into it, which is a good segue.
39:32
SPEAKER_02: Now they research it on the echo chamber of social media.
39:35
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's right.
39:35
SPEAKER_02: And that's And I go back to all the people who like my shit on Facebook and they all agree with me.
39:40
SPEAKER_02: So therefore, therefore it's fact.
39:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
39:42
SPEAKER_03: I think the the worst result of that is that when people don't critically think, it causes fear in them.
39:51
SPEAKER_03: Subconscious fear, and that drives fear is what drives And you're right.
39:55
SPEAKER_03: And exactly, yeah.
39:56
SPEAKER_03: Because they don't really know, they don't know what they're fear.
40:00
SPEAKER_03: They're lashing out anger, trying to protect themselves from something bad happened that's never really going to probably happen.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, the old ad is, you know, not not not not always right, but always confident.
40:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a kind of a facade.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
40:12
SPEAKER_01: So I want to ask you guys this because I'll tell you, there's a lot there are a lot of people out there that are worried about, you know, AI.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know.
40:22
SPEAKER_01: You both are have a lot of expertise, probably.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: I doubt he knows, I'm sure for the other thing.
40:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Eric.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: What what are the what are the what are the legitimate, and this is me curious.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: What are the I mean, AI is important on a variety of things, I get it.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: And you you joked at the beginning of this podcast that, you know, I I could change your voice, I could do whatever.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: Or actually the gentleman, yeah, he sure did.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: And that fascinates me, you know, because artificial intelligence can be used in business in a way that's that's that could be s that could be successful, but it could uh a lot of people are fearful of it.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: I mean, and people out there that just don't understand it are worried that artificial intelligence, oh my goodness, it's gonna take over the world.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: And it uh feeds into uh some people that are more bent towards conspiracy theories.
41:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sure.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's to your point about fear and anxiety, it scares a lot of people.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: I was just wondering what's your thoughts on that?
41:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that uh I mean I think that there's some right and some truth and some possibility in all that, right?
41:27
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think that you know, your mind can wander into all the possibilities and I mean maybe it could turn out to be certain some of that, but uh I do think that it's gonna probably take a lot longer for that to happen, right?
41:41
SPEAKER_03: I I don't think it the AI world ending situation is gonna happen in the next year or two, right?
41:47
SPEAKER_01: But I mean I'm looking at job security here.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: You know, I did robotic procedures, but I'm in charge of the pedals that drive the instruments that are in the body, right?
41:56
SPEAKER_02: I mean, artificial insurance when I'm over there on Miami Beach.
42:02
SPEAKER_02: Than some computer somewhere.
42:03
SPEAKER_03: Well, I think that like it's to me, I kind of liken it back to okay, look back when you know the internet website became significant, uh, digital marketing, social media, how all those things happened, and we were all slow to kind of get on board.
42:19
SPEAKER_03: There were some that weren't.
42:21
SPEAKER_03: What do I need then?
42:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, why do I need that?
42:23
SPEAKER_03: Why do I need a website?
42:24
SPEAKER_03: Like I can't tell you the amount of years.
42:26
SPEAKER_03: There's still people that believe that.
42:27
SPEAKER_03: That's a good point.
42:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
42:28
SPEAKER_03: Or why do I need content and pictures?
42:30
SPEAKER_03: Why do I need to do a video?
42:32
SPEAKER_03: Why would I do a podcast?
42:33
SPEAKER_03: Right.
42:33
SPEAKER_03: You know, that doesn't mean anything.
42:34
SPEAKER_03: Right.
42:35
SPEAKER_03: I don't listen to podcasts.
42:36
SPEAKER_03: I don't need exactly it's always that thinking, and I think that unless you like you have to start participating with it, like you have to welcome that into the business, and you don't necessarily need to know everything about it, but you need to start connecting dots and start using it, getting all the team used to it.
42:54
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it'd be the same thing as not bringing a computer into the office because you're afraid that computers are gonna take over everything, you know, and so I would definitely encourage that.
43:02
SPEAKER_03: Um, our experience, I mean, we we use AI models and we produce some and create some, and um, and I would say that you know, it's there's still a place for training those models, right?
43:15
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's not like they can do everything and anything under the science.
43:18
SPEAKER_02: No, a lot of times you've got to keep posing questions and refining and going back and back and back and back and there's still takes a brain to do that.
43:25
SPEAKER_02: It does.
43:25
SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of people behind stuff.
43:28
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
43:28
SPEAKER_01: And I do think that there's gonna be So you don't think there's learning that that I mean, yes, behind that, but you know, there are people that say, you know, I mean we can see it.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: We see it on our social media, right?
43:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's certain things that come to you and you're like, wait a second, I just thought about that or looked up something.
43:44
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure they're listening to the capable of learning.
43:49
SPEAKER_03: But I think that that so but I think that that's uh if there's you know, the real problem is people misusing or you know, companies or entities misusing the AI.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: in that learning.
44:01
SPEAKER_03: Um I think that we don't really know how that's going to play out, but I do believe that, you know, as those things happen, there'll be an acceleration of regulations.
44:10
SPEAKER_03: There'll be acceleration of of good AI and good bots that are countering those.
44:15
SPEAKER_03: I mean it's kind of like the thing today, like email is a great thing.
44:19
SPEAKER_03: Right.
44:19
SPEAKER_03: Right.
44:19
SPEAKER_03: So is AI.
44:20
SPEAKER_03: But email you get a lot of spam or you get good results.
44:24
SPEAKER_03: Then we have spam filters.
44:25
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
44:26
SPEAKER_03: Things start at then we get better spam filters.
44:29
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
44:29
SPEAKER_03: And then you get regulations to them.
44:31
SPEAKER_01: It sounds like this is all going to be creating more business and more money for somebody.
44:35
SPEAKER_03: No, that's that's that that's exactly my point.
44:37
SPEAKER_03: I think it's just another you know another iteration.
44:40
SPEAKER_03: Another tool in a sense.
44:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah and I think you know there's some things that are concerning because I think that if unless well we've all seen the movies where the robots kill everyone they decide they don't need humanity any longer.
44:53
SPEAKER_03: Right.
44:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah but I think that uh but you know on the flip side of it too right and I think we've already experienced this in today's time like okay so one of my favorite places in Northwest Arkansas is Nelson's Hardware in Cave Springs, downtown Cape Springs.
45:08
SPEAKER_03: I love going in there and seeing Tim Nelson.
45:12
SPEAKER_03: And every time I go in this guy's like hey Eric how you doing he lets me borrow some equipment when I need it on the fly sure I'm like hey can I rent this he's like I tell you what you just use it and bring it back to me take care of it.
45:25
SPEAKER_03: I'm like when can I bring he's like Tuesday Wednesday?
45:28
SPEAKER_03: Wow I'm like bro this is fantastic you feel great fantastic so I think community there I think that people and it's just like okay the whole trend it's kind of like your business with your drink wear.
45:39
SPEAKER_03: You know the trend of personalization the trend of shop local and all these things and it's local and it's crafty and and all that people still yearn for human touch.
45:50
SPEAKER_02: So like the bots it's actually we're going to see a lot of counter culture from I could see that it's funny I just read an article yesterday from a friend of mine who's an architect and a really brilliant guy and he designs retail and he lives out in LA and it was all on the fact that in this culture we live in where there's so many people who are isolated and alienated they like going to a store and having a checker.
46:16
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely they don't want to check out by themselves.
46:19
SPEAKER_02: That might be the only interaction they have is with the person in the checkout line.
46:24
SPEAKER_01: I can't wasn't there a retailer that realized that they tried to do this self-checkout and they're starting to second guess that probably I can't remember who it is but there's somebody that comes into mind but yeah that may be the reason why but it was just kind of interesting.
46:36
SPEAKER_03: I think my closing comment about the AI though.
46:39
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh sorry no it's fine it's fine I just want to make sure I completed the thought because the most important thing is really AI is going to do all the shit that nobody wants to do anyway.
46:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
46:49
SPEAKER_03: That's the good news oh that's great.
46:50
SPEAKER_03: Right?
46:51
SPEAKER_03: And I think that we look at that and and and that's where you need to really embrace it into the business it's like okay something can get all these data points filled out you know and whatever it might be it speeds up my time and you know it usually doesn't replace jobs.
47:05
SPEAKER_03: It allows what we were talking about earlier for somebody to do things that their brain is actually good at doing versus meticulous work like data entry and whatever it might be.
47:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah you know so I think it's makes sense it's a welcoming thing and we just got to accelerate with it.
47:20
SPEAKER_03: The thing is but I would say on that is don't necessarily have to write your own AI models.
47:26
SPEAKER_03: There's businesses or smart people like your friend's son you know that are out there programming a lot of this stuff or teaching these models there's going to be a lot of businesses that develop out that and then you just you subscribe to those things.
47:38
SPEAKER_02: Well I just I've always been saying that about software for years.
47:41
SPEAKER_02: I work with these engineers my whole career and they want to be like we're going to design our own accounting billing project man I'm like why in the world would you do that when there's companies out there that put you know hundreds of millions of dollars in RD and have a million cases of users that have figured all this out.
48:00
SPEAKER_02: Right.
48:00
SPEAKER_02: It's insanity.
48:01
SPEAKER_01: I think that you know I agree and close on your clause to it went back to what I was saying earlier is I think that in anything there are always going to be malactors.
48:11
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah yeah sure.
48:12
SPEAKER_01: And I think that at some point you know there need to be because I don't believe in a completely unregulated market.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: Sure talked about that.
48:22
SPEAKER_01: That leads to a lot of bad things.
48:25
SPEAKER_01: When we deregulated uh certain things in the 80s for instance it was a catastrophe.
48:30
SPEAKER_01: That's one yeah absolutely um and you know because I find these things and I'm saying this about me I'm so I have no knowledge on it.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah I say AI, I know what it means artificial intelligence, but you've just illuminated a lot of things and applications that I didn't even think about some of which I was unconscious about it's happening right now.
48:56
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that is what the population goes and it's wow what is where is this going to go?
49:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah sure in in like I said there's malactors in everything right and I think at some point leaders in that field need to really be responsible in terms of regulating applications um because that that's where I think the fear is whether that's a rational fear or not it is a fear out there.
49:22
SPEAKER_02: Well it's always been like that.
49:24
SPEAKER_02: Social media has been a great example of you know how it's gone off the rails.
49:30
SPEAKER_02: You know when social media first came out and I was aware of it I thought this is great.
49:35
SPEAKER_02: Everything everybody'll know uh the truth about whatever it is you know all over the world will know instantly whatever is happening.
49:43
SPEAKER_02: And that and there's some truth to that yeah I mean there's potential it exists to do that.
49:47
SPEAKER_03: Well the thing is is like I'll watch my kids right there four fifteen, sixteen seventeen year old girls but they're it's scary on one side right the fear as a dad to those girls right and how anybody could be watching and all this stuff that they you know some dude would know or whatever right in fears right but on the flip side of it they're the way that they think has so much more of a worldly about I'd say in a positive light you know from whatever it might be they live in a completely world with a world view in mind instead of a Northwest Arkansas smaller.
50:25
SPEAKER_02: I had no worldview when I was 16 I can guarantee my parents tried to give me one but I was resistant.
50:32
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
50:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah but but when you're watching other people your peers that you know live in Japan to all the way in Italy or whatever it might be.
50:41
SPEAKER_03: And you're stuck here.
50:42
SPEAKER_03: I mean they they have a more well-rounded perspective of life.
50:45
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely listen you know it's really funny about a week ago my daughter uh was uh telling me this and you've met Danielle yeah she said Dad I want to start something I've kind of started it last week and who knows where it's going to go but she's um developed this thing she says is going to be humans of northwest Arkansas and you probably have heard of humans of New York which you know we my wife has followed and there's humans of India and humans and so you know it's obviously something she's you know she did she's already done the interview.
51:17
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like you know I would have even she's 17.
51:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah I've got a 17 year old boy and 17 year old girl they're twins and a 20 year old boy and I would never have thought about that.
51:27
SPEAKER_01: Now I'm not a I'm not a creative person but I'll tell you I can tell you I wouldn't have ever thought that where does that come from that comes from what you're talking about social media the big world view that your daughters have right that we didn't have.
51:43
SPEAKER_01: So that's the good parts of it and obviously we have experienced the better negatives right yeah no that's uh those are all good points for sure.
51:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah so I think that the the thing with AI I think that it's going to be an interesting journey for sure.
51:55
SPEAKER_03: I'm you know there's things that like I like for example podcast videos right there's a lot of AI related to podcast videos you know and we have to you know I'm tell the team we must be the the the front runner of accepting AI into the business and and taking whatever that is and passing that cost off to our clients and our subscribers.
52:19
SPEAKER_03: If we fail at that I mean we could be behind within a month and and people will quit coming to us because I'm still charging 150 bucks but it takes you twin ten cents to create a podcast.
52:31
SPEAKER_03: Makes no sense I provide you no value.
52:33
SPEAKER_03: So we have to be very we have to always be modern and be modern about what's coming in.
52:38
SPEAKER_02: We went through that in the architecture world with CAD.
52:42
SPEAKER_02: They resisted it's like we can't do the oh the greatest thing we're gonna pass it on as a separate no but the only way to really do it is to draw it by hand.
52:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah and we've got to keep charging the 450 exactly but what we in stick of what we can do well with is strategy but we still use AI and strategy.
53:00
SPEAKER_03: Like we're gonna ask certain questions that's going to populate into an AI model spits out back out for us but we don't charge you an hour's worth of work where it took us 10 minutes to create this in an AI model.
53:11
SPEAKER_03: That's a very honest way of looking at it too and you have to because you'll get busted that's the big market for 10 minutes.
53:18
SPEAKER_03: Can we say that to lawyers can we talk to them about it but you take the value of what's going on I mean I think it's happened with any business you take that AI value you just know how to use it in your business.
53:30
SPEAKER_03: That gives you a leg up right before the broader market catches on or especially competitors catch on.
53:35
SPEAKER_03: You accelerate in that learning and then you keep the people focused on the people related things.
53:40
SPEAKER_03: And so it's like you know you can't AI taking you out for coffee and saying how you doing it be interesting.
53:47
SPEAKER_02: No exactly there's some things that'll never be replaced.
53:49
SPEAKER_03: We just talked about the relational value that we have about the small local side right the whole Nelson's hardware like a love of that people love relationships.
53:58
SPEAKER_03: It's not like it's going to be replaced.
54:00
SPEAKER_03: So this just allows your people to be more people related in the process of doing that somebody has to be cognizant of of understanding how important that that relationship is.
54:12
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
54:13
SPEAKER_01: Because AI can also drive people apart in certain situations and isolate people and I think that we have there's several good books out there.
54:25
SPEAKER_01: There's one by Ben Sass who's uh Nebraska and the premise of it is you know we have lost that sense of community and that sense of talking to our neighbors and uh going to a Walmart or wherever or Nelson's and because it's become so easy for us through social media, through ability to get home home deliveries home deliveries, dropping or dropping things.
54:50
SPEAKER_01: And you know it takes a I think it takes not I think it takes a sensitive person to recognize that and you have to proactively fight against that isolation in our world because we have a crisis of loneliness in our world as well and there are a lot of books on that as well.
55:09
SPEAKER_03: Right long discussion so I just went you know I was in Vegas I was at the Walmart there was a Walmart event out there and Walmart came and spoke a lot a lot of leaders did.
55:17
SPEAKER_03: What I love about it as I think we can agree like Walmart is advancing with AI they're advancing with all the like the drones right all that stuff we know Walmart is is much more progressive than the rest of the world does.
55:30
SPEAKER_01: They think it's backward but it's not a most progressive company I worked at Kmart for two and a half years on 71 when they built that Walmart and Walton came to Kmart you know it was Kreske Corporation that's a big uh I was from North some I remember it's Michigan I didn't mean interrupt but in Michigan and think about what he did and think about what I thought that was that was a very far reaching deal to basically take over the world.
55:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean for God's sake and that's what they did.
56:01
SPEAKER_03: They're the largest you know retailer in the world that is the largest company with a I think in the world with with with uh the number of employees they're oh wow I didn't know that yes but anyway the amidst all this omni channel and stuff that they're doing the next acceleration they're doing technologically their mission their purpose statement is people led to help people you know and I mean but they believe in that and I mean they're sticking by that so to your point right like they're not alienating the people that are buying their products or the people that are running their company.
56:35
SPEAKER_03: You know they still make sure that they have that.
56:37
SPEAKER_03: So I think that that's you know when we think about the CEO, the leaders of the board over Walmart, you know they got some pretty serious crap to be thinking about big decisions.
56:46
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
56:47
SPEAKER_02: And the trust that you know I think that that's and yet Doug McMillan goes out to the stores and rides around with people in trucks and all of it.
56:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah I've seen it's but he's still a people person.
56:57
SPEAKER_03: Right.
56:58
SPEAKER_03: So we can't lose that right I mean like we cannot lose that in this in this world absolutely I mean you know where you have the privilege to be a leader you also have a responsibility to lead correctly.
57:11
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely based not just on your business acumen or your upbring but also on some core values and I think people that lead that way obviously we know what the goal of business is, but you can do that you can do surgery you can take care of patients you can you know uh launch uh the classware or do these uh these other uh services and businesses still keeping in mind that we're dealing with people.
57:42
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
57:43
SPEAKER_02: And listen in the medical field that's a big been a big problem.
57:48
SPEAKER_02: I mean you know this the bedside manner.
57:52
SPEAKER_02: You know you think surgeons they're they they they by nature have to disassociate themselves to a certain extent in order to be able to do their objective.
58:01
SPEAKER_02: Right.
58:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah it it's it's a and yet at the same and and deal with the results you know which is life and death.
58:08
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely you go through the you go through that lot in life and death as a surgeon as a doctor and then mostly it's a business right you've got to get things going to see the patients.
58:18
SPEAKER_01: You gotta go things be efficient to get good quality care to your patients and do good surgical outcomes.
58:23
SPEAKER_01: And that all drives you and then sometimes you're right you can lose that and but I'll tell you that's what I've said and this is really good that you said this.
58:30
SPEAKER_01: Bedside manner well bedside manner but you also kind of lose perspective sometimes and I always say this that you know you lose perspective until somebody that you love or is in that situation and you're not the sort of gain it oh yeah it's it's in power.
58:44
SPEAKER_01: You remember real quick of that note you're the customer or you're the person or you're the family member and you're like okay I know how that person feels and I think that's a very good thing to think about and it keeps you grounded.
58:56
SPEAKER_03: Hell yeah.
58:57
SPEAKER_03: I mean I to be on to be honest like every medical so my wife's a nurse practitioner.
59:01
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
59:02
SPEAKER_03: And so she you know with Highlands actually so I mean but the reality is is anybody in the medical industry that's seeing patients is a leader to your point is a leader.
59:12
SPEAKER_03: And I don't know that everybody kind of gets that like you are in a situation where you are leading somebody you're walking someone through life they're absolutely following your I mean talk about a leader right I am following everything that you're telling me but and that's exactly what I started with with the privilege of leadership comes responsibility.
59:35
SPEAKER_01: People listen to you even quips and you don't realize what you're saying that they're listening to almost I mean most people are listening to a lot of your words and they're looking at your expressions looking at your eyes looking in your eyes the whole thing.
59:51
SPEAKER_01: And so there's a lot of responsibility to get it right and not you know nobody gets it right 100% of the time I promise you that.
59:57
SPEAKER_01: But if you have it in your heart to try to get it right that's right that's all you can ask.
1:00:01
SPEAKER_01: Big deal.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah in in business I I'm I'm sure probably the three of us and many of our listeners have experienced this like you come into the office and maybe you got a million things on your mind and you walk past somebody and you don't say good morning to them the next thing you know it comes back to you from somebody else so and so thinks you're upset with them.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely I didn't even realize it you didn't say good morning to right right and and it and it's you know and it it's hard but it is necessary to be tuned into all these things it is I don't when I walk in when I walk into white spider land like I am specifically every time I open those doors and I walk in I remember how absolutely important it is.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_01: Well you built it yeah and so you know foundationally what you believed in when you built that company and so and you got you got to laugh at yourself.
1:00:59
SPEAKER_03: You got to laugh you got to humor yeah but a lot of people can't do that.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah but just I mean but going in but that oh yeah even if there's only five people in the office when I walk in and but you have like 50 or something that might be there later that day those five that get that experience in the morning it it just it broods within the office.
1:01:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah I mean it really does it sets an emotional foundation I think a lot of times we forget that we're very emotional.
1:01:23
SPEAKER_01: And I know I have too I mean when I come in from a surgery and I'm starting clinic you know I have to be cognizant of understanding that you know I got to put my face on, be there for my employees and most importantly be there for my patients or any other personal thing that's going on family or otherwise you've got to kind of separate it and move forward because each room with a patient is an individual experience and with and you know there's patients that I'll talk to forever you know I like and we become friends too you know honestly and there's others that you know it's it's a little bit more of a transactional deal like it is it's just the way it is.
1:02:00
SPEAKER_01: That's the way the world is but you've got to be able to communicate with that particular person in the way that you should I think we could all agree that in business when you can have those interactions with your customers or your employees or your patients in your case those are some of the best interactions you can have.
1:02:21
SPEAKER_02: Those things are very satisfying for us and and those are the things that people talk about that distinguish you.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_01: Oh 100% and then your wife would attest to this too we're unique in the sense that you can with uh obviously in our day and age it's different how medicine is practiced but and expectations and all of it.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_01: But when you've got that situation and you've taken care of that patient and you've established a relationship whether it's whatever you're doing and you are interacting and you reach that goal and you reach it together it's probably one of the most fulfilling things that you can feel yeah as a as a healthcare provider and I'm sure she would agree with you.
1:03:01
SPEAKER_03: She would but as Mark knows my wife only attests to whatever the hell I tell her to test to that's a good and that's and Eric that's a good wife.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_02: It's yeah and you but that's why Mark's on his third and I'm sure and I'm sure I'm sure your your bride would would agree with it.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah?
1:03:23
SPEAKER_02: And and and you know I'm gonna come back to what you were saying before about uh uh what was it the the sorry to the curiosity the intellectual curiosity the um the questioning the skepticism I've have found I'm gonna generalize which I don't like to do women are better at that than men at what at being skeptical oh totally at at questioning being critical sure I've been on so many boards that I got on and there was no woman on there and these guys would jump off you talk about lemmings it's like this client screwed us three times the last three times we did work with him but you know but Bob's a good guy and you know I really like golfing with Bob and Bob says he's got a lot more work coming let's all work for Bob you know whereas the woman in the room would be like wait a minute Bob still owes us$2.8 million.
1:04:18
SPEAKER_02: Are you out of your freaking mind?
1:04:21
SPEAKER_02: Okay tell Bob that until he comes and levels up with us we're not gonna touch his shit.
1:04:27
SPEAKER_01: You know going back to each or something else or curiosity I'm gonna tell you this I I remember and I still remember it I don't know what class it was I think I was in high school but I remember it and I still quote it and say it's a guy named Peter Abelard I think was a philosopher of some time and his his one of the things he said was a a per and I know you love this Mark a persistent and frequent questioning is the master key to knowledge.
1:04:54
SPEAKER_01: Of course you know I used to get in trouble for that my dad said quick asking so many questions you know out in public he'd pinch my thigh when I was talking to you much because obviously I talked too much when I was a little kid but I was questioning I was always asking questions and that goes back to the to the raising the raising that's right yeah you know if you suppress questioning and your answer is because that's the way it is and as long as you're under my house that's the way it is that creates or under my roof in my business that's the way it is that's it same thing.
1:05:23
SPEAKER_02: That's good that's good.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_01: As opposed to hey let's have a let's have a dialogue and let's go through different ideas.
1:05:30
SPEAKER_01: And it may be that that CEO is going to make that decision right but question.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_01: Everybody should question everything I in in my meetings I have in in many businesses I'm always promoting questionings.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_01: Hey is there any way we can do this better new hires when I interview them I've interviewed somebody I said listen we have these processes in place because I'm process driven but you know what that doesn't mean it's right.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_02: And do learn our process first before you want to change it.
1:05:56
SPEAKER_02: Because you might understand why it's done that way.
1:05:58
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
1:05:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah people that can I mean, like on the second day.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_02: You're an idiot.
1:06:02
SPEAKER_02: That's arrogance.
1:06:03
SPEAKER_02: That's a whole lot of sort of things.
1:06:04
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's like, wait a minute.
1:06:05
SPEAKER_02: You don't even understand why we do what we do.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_02: No, I agree with that.
1:06:08
SPEAKER_02: I've had these young financial guys.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_02: I want to just strangle them.
1:06:12
SPEAKER_02: I really do.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_02: They're so freaking arrogant.
1:06:15
SPEAKER_02: What do they do?
1:06:15
SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, like you say, I need these ten pieces of information on this report on a certain schedule.
1:06:21
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm going to give you twenty eight other things and only two of what you asked for because these are better.
1:06:27
SPEAKER_02: Wait a minute.
1:06:28
SPEAKER_02: You don't know what's better than that.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_02: Maybe you'll come up with some.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_03: What if they do, though?
1:06:32
SPEAKER_03: I mean, don't you think that somebody can tell what's better immediately?
1:06:36
SPEAKER_03: I think it's unlikely.
1:06:38
SPEAKER_02: What are we talking about?
1:06:39
SPEAKER_02: Arrogance.
1:06:41
SPEAKER_02: I think they need to learn the system first to understand.
1:06:44
SPEAKER_02: No, I agree with that.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_01: When you have a successful business and you're a successful business person like you two clearly are, you know, something's worked.
1:06:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:06:53
SPEAKER_01: My point is that basic process can be tweaked, and sometimes we may not have the we may have the blinders onto that tweakness for a variety of reasons.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_01: Or whether it's it's just easier to keep on doing it.
1:07:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:07:08
SPEAKER_01: The ability to be able to listen to somebody question that.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_01: And there's nothing wrong with saying, hey no, I don't want to do those I want to do these 28 things because I think better.
1:07:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the answer I would say the question I'd say is, why do you think it'll be better?
1:07:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:07:22
SPEAKER_01: And and explain yourself.
1:07:23
SPEAKER_01: And if they can't enunciate sort of why, then then I'd be just like, you know, get the 10 things and yeah, no, you're absolutely right.
1:07:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:07:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:07:31
SPEAKER_02: I think that's all valid stuff.
1:07:33
SPEAKER_02: Well, listen, guys, we're running out of time.
1:07:36
SPEAKER_02: Wait, are we?
1:07:36
SPEAKER_02: We've I mean Yeah.
1:07:39
SPEAKER_02: I mean, how long have we been on the show now?
1:07:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, like an hour and ten minutes or something.
1:07:43
SPEAKER_02: You're running out of time.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_02: It's so um we're gonna have to press the voice.
1:07:47
SPEAKER_02: We have to do this again.
1:07:48
SPEAKER_02: I know, we should bring normal back.
1:07:50
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
1:07:51
SPEAKER_02: We could we could have a lot I learned a lot from you guys.
1:07:53
SPEAKER_02: We could have a tri-host.
1:07:54
SPEAKER_02: A tri host.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_02: I like it.
1:07:56
SPEAKER_02: I like you know kind of a three-way thing.
1:08:00
SPEAKER_02: Um that sounds great.
1:08:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:08:01
SPEAKER_02: That sounds great.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_01: We'll invite some others.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_02: I like that.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_02: I like a tri host not in.
1:08:08
SPEAKER_02: You always say stuff like that.
1:08:09
SPEAKER_02: Up like limit.
1:08:11
SPEAKER_02: But uh no, seriously.
1:08:13
SPEAKER_02: You can see why I wanted to have Nurmal on here.
1:08:15
SPEAKER_02: He's a very intelligent, very thoughtful guy.
1:08:17
SPEAKER_02: That's nice.
1:08:18
SPEAKER_02: And he's pushing the the limits in everything that he does in that.
1:08:23
SPEAKER_02: And I think that is the mark of a true entrepreneur.
1:08:25
SPEAKER_03: Well, what I love too is you brought up history.
1:08:28
SPEAKER_03: I think there's some I mean, we didn't even get into that, which I'd love to have it on the podcast.
1:08:32
SPEAKER_03: Can we can we do that?
1:08:33
SPEAKER_03: Because I got a book.
1:08:35
SPEAKER_03: I'm a big American entrepreneur history buff.
1:08:39
SPEAKER_01: Like I could learn a lot from you on that.
1:08:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't know.
1:08:42
SPEAKER_03: I mean you mean and Henry Ford and uh So like I mean, my my thing was is when I when I started my first business, I had no idea that I was an entrepreneur.
1:08:51
SPEAKER_03: I didn't even know what the word meant.
1:08:53
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:08:53
SPEAKER_03: Right?
1:08:53
SPEAKER_03: Unlike Mark's way he educated.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_01: Well there's a there's a lot of them.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_01: Mark's training all of them around now.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_03: Well, I I don't know about that.
1:09:02
SPEAKER_03: But did they think they are already?
1:09:04
SPEAKER_03: Some of them probably do, don't they?
1:09:06
SPEAKER_03: They're studying to be entrepreneurs.
1:09:08
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
1:09:08
SPEAKER_03: Some of them are significant stuff.
1:09:11
unknown: Right.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_03: But when I found out, then then I went through a period of like I was 22 when I started my first gig.
1:09:17
SPEAKER_03: I didn't know what I was doing.
1:09:18
SPEAKER_03: I knew I did things amazing.
1:09:20
SPEAKER_03: I mean, but it wasn't until five years later that I heard and put together Wait a minute, am I an entrepreneur?
1:09:25
SPEAKER_03: Somebody told me I was one time I'm like, what the hell are you talking about?
1:09:28
SPEAKER_03: I mean then I started I started reading about it, the word, and I started finding all these people that think about the same kind of or have the same stories I do, which are basically like hitting brick walls everywhere you go as an entrepreneur.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_04: Right.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_03: But we need to have a podcast about it.
1:09:44
SPEAKER_03: There's a book called American Entrepreneur that is absolutely fantastic, and it goes through the history, and to your point, like you said, United States, it starts back when the country was first founded.
1:09:56
SPEAKER_03: Because a lot of times we're taught that this country is built upon you know our polit political leaders.
1:10:01
SPEAKER_03: But nobody ever has you don't get taught the perspective of built upon American entrepreneurs.
1:10:06
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:10:06
SPEAKER_03: The the immigrants coming the in the United States and making business happen and how that's just like it impacts everything in our humanity today in this country.
1:10:16
SPEAKER_03: No doubt about it.
1:10:16
SPEAKER_03: I believe this country was built off entrepreneurship.
1:10:19
SPEAKER_02: Listen, I I do too.
1:10:20
SPEAKER_02: I mean, business takes everything you've got.
1:10:23
SPEAKER_02: That's what I like about it.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it is absolutely the most intellectually challenging thing I've found.
1:10:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:10:30
SPEAKER_02: Um it's been like that for hundreds of for hundreds of years.
1:10:36
SPEAKER_01: That makes sense, right?
1:10:37
SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's combining sociology, psychology, math, uh market analysis, uh constantly checking to see if things are worth I mean, you know, we're good at emotional intelligence stuff.
1:10:52
SPEAKER_01: Intelligence, lots of coffee, you know.
1:10:57
SPEAKER_01: Some sometimes some a ball of scotch.
1:10:59
SPEAKER_01: So 100% takes alcohol, it takes county.
1:11:02
SPEAKER_01: So it takes it all.
1:11:03
SPEAKER_02: All right.
1:11:03
SPEAKER_02: Well, this is a girl.
1:11:04
SPEAKER_02: This is going too far now.
1:11:06
SPEAKER_03: Um we can rewind this video back.
1:11:10
SPEAKER_03: Somebody could for about three minutes.
1:11:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_03: You went maybe too far earlier.
1:11:15
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I remember.
1:11:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:11:17
SPEAKER_02: I've been responsible.
1:11:18
SPEAKER_02: Um I love it.
1:11:21
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
1:11:21
SPEAKER_02: So we're going to wrap it up today, guys.
1:11:23
SPEAKER_02: We appreciate you tuning in.
1:11:24
SPEAKER_02: This has been another episode of Big Talk About Small Business.
1:11:29
SPEAKER_02: And tune in again next week and we'll have another guest, hopefully.
1:11:34
SPEAKER_02: And uh, Normal, we really appreciate your being here.
1:11:36
SPEAKER_02: Well, thanks for having me.
1:11:37
SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
1:11:38
SPEAKER_02: Honor to meet you man.
1:11:38
SPEAKER_02: Hey, same here.
1:11:40
SPEAKER_02: Same here.
1:11:40
SPEAKER_02: Enjoy it.
1:11:47
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Big Talk About Small Business.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_00: If you have any questions or ideas for upcoming shows, be sure to head over to our website, www.bigtalkaboutsmallbusiness.com, and click on the Ask the Host button for the chance to have your questions answered on the show.
1:12:05
SPEAKER_00: Stay connected with us on LinkedIn at Big Talk About Small Business.
1:12:09
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