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HR1: Coaching Differences · In the Locker Room presented by Neighborhood Ford Store (Pittsburgh Steelers)

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: This is In the Locker Room with Rob King, Max Starks,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: and Willie Colon on Steelers Nation Radio. Brought to you
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: in part by the Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop at shop.steelers.com.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: And by your neighborhood Ford store. The F-150 is the
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: official truck of the Pittsburgh Steelers.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: The players have to hold themselves accountable. I believe in regulation.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm paid to do. I'm the regulator of
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: the program. That's ultimately my job. I'm in charge of volume. Ultimately,
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: when those decisions of we're going to go this way
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: or that way, yes, that's my responsibility. But the players
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: have to push each other internally. That's why I don't
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: think we can do enough as an organization to support
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: the locker room and to make sure we're We protect
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: that locker room. So that's my meaning of player-led football team.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: And thank you very much for being with us in
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: the locker room with Max Starks and Willie Colon. I'm
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: Rob King, Justin Miller with the controls in our iHeart Studio.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: We thank you very much for being with us. And,
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: you know, I guess we might as well jump right in. Max,
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: I'm going to have you leading off here today.
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: And I just... Mike McCarthy says a lot of things
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: where I'm like, okay, yeah, yep.
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  Speaker 3: So talking about, for example, he liked the roster when
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: he took over.
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: He didn't talk about rebuilding. Hey, I like this roster.
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: You've got to.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: Adapt what you do to the players you have, which
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: is something we're going to be talking about a little
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: bit later on in the show with the injury news
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: coming out yesterday for sure from Mike McCarthy. But just
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: this notion of a player-led team. He was asked about
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: player leadership, Max. I'm a big believer that if you think,
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: you know, a coach provides some leadership, I get that.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: But if you don't have it in the locker room,
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: then you don't have a team that I think can succeed.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: So what he was.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: Talking about there was, you know, give everything, give those
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: guys the opportunity to coalesce, become a cohesive unit, lead
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: in the locker room, and then I'll regulate. I'll make
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: sure that, you know, they're staying within the boundaries. Music
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  Speaker 3: to my ears when I hear a coach say something
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  Speaker 3: like that.
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  Speaker 5: Absolutely. And I think, you know, it's funny.
• 2:33
  Speaker 6: It's always crazy how there's like a reference in your
• 2:36
  Speaker 6: head when you hear a certain phrase or wording. And
• 2:39
  Speaker 6: I heard regulators. All I thought I could think about
• 2:41
  Speaker 6: was Warren G. And the regulator song he had is
• 2:45
  Speaker 6: like regulators mount up, which is from, of course, you know,
• 2:48
  Speaker 6: obviously young guns is the phrasing. But it's like it's
• 2:53
  Speaker 6: hilarious how that triggers in your mind. And you're absolutely right.
• 2:56
  Speaker 6: I think it has to be from within and it
• 3:00
  Speaker 6: has to be from inside the locker room. It can't
• 3:03
  Speaker 6: be from upstairs, right? Managing down below. Cause that's essentially
• 3:08
  Speaker 6: coach's office. The way the facility is set up at,
• 3:11
  Speaker 6: you know, over on water street, locker rooms on the
• 3:14
  Speaker 6: main level, coach's office are upstairs and that's right. Meeting
• 3:18
  Speaker 6: rooms and all that management ownership, everything's upstairs. So the,
• 3:22
  Speaker 6: You can't lead the team from upstairs. The team has
• 3:25
  Speaker 6: to be led from the ground floor, and that is
• 3:29
  Speaker 6: having the player leadership, having, quote-unquote, your elders and senior
• 3:35
  Speaker 6: leadership kind.
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: Of being those individuals. So to hear him say.
• 3:39
  Speaker 6: That is a good belief because I think any successful
• 3:44
  Speaker 6: team has to have those leaders.
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: You can't look to the coach for strength.
• 3:50
  Speaker 6: And and for, you know, that that camaraderie, because once again,
• 3:54
  Speaker 6: the coach can only go so far. The coach is
• 3:57
  Speaker 6: on the field, but he can't he can't step over
• 3:58
  Speaker 6: those white lines and play with you guys. There's a
• 4:01
  Speaker 6: reason why he's a coach and the players have to
• 4:04
  Speaker 6: be able to regulate, have to be able to be
• 4:09
  Speaker 6: in a position to make those decisions on the field
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  Speaker 6: when it comes to the welfare of the of the group.
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  Speaker 6: so no it was good to hear that that he
• 4:18
  Speaker 6: believes that as well because some coaches don't i hate
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  Speaker 6: to say it but we can look at a lot
• 4:22
  Speaker 6: of different franchises that have not had success and you
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  Speaker 6: look at okay well where's the leadership i mean you
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  Speaker 6: know we can talk about that team with the star
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  Speaker 6: that's down in the great state of texas and when
• 4:34
  Speaker 6: you think about okay look around like who's the leader
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  Speaker 6: it's like jerry jones he's got his own radio spots
• 4:39
  Speaker 6: like like what owner has his own radio spot so
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  Speaker 6: i mean just That's a different type of deal. And yes,
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: you can say Dak Prescott, but I think that's where
• 4:47
  Speaker 6: we kind of get missed in a lot of this
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  Speaker 6: is that people think that they can control that locker
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  Speaker 6: room because they have proximity to it. But the best teams,
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  Speaker 6: the ones that Willie and I played on, we had
• 5:00
  Speaker 6: those leaders. And it wasn't just your frontline stars. They
• 5:03
  Speaker 6: have to do their job as well. But you had
• 5:06
  Speaker 6: the auxiliary guys, just the guys with experience. They might
• 5:10
  Speaker 6: not necessarily be your every down starters, but they are
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  Speaker 6: guys who have influence and who guys can trust and
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  Speaker 6: talk to, and then you can have those frank conversations
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  Speaker 6: with them. One of the guys I always go back to,
• 5:21
  Speaker 6: Charlie Batch is.
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  Speaker 5: One of those guys for us. And C.
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  Speaker 6: Batch was one of our player leaders that we looked to,
• 5:29
  Speaker 6: and we always knew that if we had an issue,
• 5:31
  Speaker 6: we could go to him.
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: Yep, different leaders in different ways. Willie, your thoughts on
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: those comments? I loved it, but I'd love to hear
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: what you have to say.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, I just, I'm a firm believer guys follow those
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  Speaker 7: who are committed and exceptional at their job. I think
• 5:49
  Speaker 7: sometimes we, we like to glorify what leadership means on
• 5:54
  Speaker 7: a football team or what it means in a big
• 5:56
  Speaker 7: scheme of things. And I think a lot of that
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  Speaker 7: has to do with the root cause of leadership. And,
• 6:01
  Speaker 7: you know, a lot of that, you appreciate a guy
• 6:04
  Speaker 7: who is consistent with his work and how he approaches
• 6:06
  Speaker 7: the game is no different from parenting, right? Like, as
• 6:09
  Speaker 7: much as you want to preach to your kids about
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  Speaker 7: what to do, is ultimately what you do on a
• 6:13
  Speaker 7: day-to-day basis on how they see you is what steers
• 6:17
  Speaker 7: them in the right direction. And I think that's what
• 6:20
  Speaker 7: Mike McCarthy is essentially trying to say. Like, you know,
• 6:22
  Speaker 7: they can create a culture and protect the locker room,
• 6:26
  Speaker 7: but it's eternally how those guys 24 hours within a day,
• 6:31
  Speaker 7: how they approach their job and how they approach their work.
• 6:33
  Speaker 7: You know, me and Max have talked about countless examples.
• 6:36
  Speaker 7: He brought up Charlie Batch. you know, Alan Fanica was
• 6:39
  Speaker 7: that for me, you know, watching, you know, coming in and,
• 6:42
  Speaker 7: you know, I'll be strolling into the locker room. And
• 6:44
  Speaker 7: as I sat down on my seat and, and prepared
• 6:47
  Speaker 7: for my day, Alan Fanica was coming out the weight room.
• 6:50
  Speaker 5: With a full body sweat, um, blasting Metallica. Right.
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  Speaker 7: And so he had been in a building a whole
• 6:55
  Speaker 7: hour before me. And not only putting in work in
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  Speaker 7: the weight room was not only showered and ready for
• 7:02
  Speaker 7: the day with his notebook and, and his pen and
• 7:04
  Speaker 7: his pad and, had a breakfast in a system he
• 7:07
  Speaker 7: was brought out in bushy tails. So this is a
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  Speaker 7: dude who was committed to how he approached his day
• 7:12
  Speaker 7: each and every day. On top of that, Sunday was
• 7:14
  Speaker 7: a party for him because he played at such a
• 7:16
  Speaker 7: high level. So seeing that type of example day in
• 7:19
  Speaker 7: and day out and how much respect he garnered from
• 7:22
  Speaker 7: the defensive side of the ball, everybody know what he
• 7:24
  Speaker 7: meant for the team on the offensive side. But when
• 7:27
  Speaker 7: you saw guys who were considered alpha males and big
• 7:31
  Speaker 7: personalities like Joey Porter and James Ferrier and Troy Powell-Mahave
• 7:37
  Speaker 7: approached him specifically, it made others like myself say, oh,
• 7:42
  Speaker 7: this guy is different. And it also made you hold
• 7:45
  Speaker 7: yourself accountable. You know, we've talked about countless examples about
• 7:48
  Speaker 7: being trust. What helps you, what helps build a locker
• 7:52
  Speaker 7: room is trust, right? You trust the next man, next
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  Speaker 7: you to do your job, and he's trusting you to
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  Speaker 7: do your job and be consistent with it. And sometimes
• 8:01
  Speaker 7: when you go through ups and downs like the Steelers
• 8:03
  Speaker 7: have done with losing and winning, what helps you rebound
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  Speaker 7: is that you're going to trust the guy next to.
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  Speaker 5: You to get his job together, for him to be
• 8:12
  Speaker 5: on his job, and two, if.
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  Speaker 7: He was responsible in any way to the loss, that
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  Speaker 7: he's going to be accountable for himself and he's going
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  Speaker 7: to do what's necessary to be better for that following
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  Speaker 7: Sunday and for that.
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  Speaker 5: Week of practice. So trust plays a big factor into it.
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  Speaker 7: And I– And I think sometimes I think we forget
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  Speaker 7: this is what Omar Khan wanted, right? That was the
• 8:34
  Speaker 7: reason why he kept 11 rookies, because he wanted the
• 8:36
  Speaker 7: older guys in that locker room to show the younger
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  Speaker 7: guys that, hey, man, this is what the NFL season
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  Speaker 7: is like. One week you're going to be sitting on
• 8:44
  Speaker 7: top of the mound. People are going to be patting
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  Speaker 7: you in the back. People around the city is going
• 8:47
  Speaker 7: to be like, hey, man, you know.
• 8:48
  Speaker 5: Come eat over here. Come drink over here.
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  Speaker 7: You're going to be the king of the town.
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  Speaker 5: And the next week you get your socks blown off you.
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  Speaker 7: In Cleveland, and everybody's like, man, blow the whole thing up,
• 8:57
  Speaker 7: fire the coach, and burn the city, right?
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  Speaker 5: And so you have to– you need that.
• 9:03
  Speaker 7: Veteran leadership to tell the young guys, like, no, whatever happens,
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  Speaker 7: we still got to go to work. Win, lose, draw,
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  Speaker 7: however it happens, man, we still got to be accountable
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  Speaker 7: for how we approach our day, how we attack the
• 9:14
  Speaker 7: locker room, how we perform, how much study we're doing
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  Speaker 7: outside the building, how much are we committed to our body.
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  Speaker 5: All of that matters.
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  Speaker 7: And sometimes it takes– Legit veteran leadership to show that.
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  Speaker 7: It's not to say it because anybody can hold a
• 9:29
  Speaker 7: players-only meeting where you're sitting in a room and everybody's
• 9:31
  Speaker 7: kind of yelling and fussing and pointing the fingers, so
• 9:34
  Speaker 7: to speak, and.
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: Asking everybody to step up.
• 9:36
  Speaker 7: Believe it or not, those are hard conversations, but I
• 9:39
  Speaker 7: don't know how productive those are. I felt like what
• 9:43
  Speaker 7: helped me be better was watching guys be exceptional at
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  Speaker 7: their job and be consistent at their job. It's like anything, man.
• 9:52
  Speaker 7: If you're ever sitting in a room with people with
• 9:55
  Speaker 7: a lot of money, right? You want to look like
• 9:58
  Speaker 7: you belong, right? Of course you want to be yourself,
• 10:01
  Speaker 7: but you want to feel you want to present yourself
• 10:02
  Speaker 7: in a certain manner.
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: Same way for ballplayers.
• 10:05
  Speaker 7: If you sit around a lot of exceptional guys who
• 10:07
  Speaker 7: are committed to their work and doing their job at
• 10:09
  Speaker 7: a high level, you want to meet the par, right?
• 10:13
  Speaker 7: You want to be right there with them. So I
• 10:15
  Speaker 7: think that comes with younger guys learning from the older
• 10:18
  Speaker 7: guys and older guys being consistent in their work because
• 10:20
  Speaker 7: they're bringing the young guys up. And anytime you see
• 10:23
  Speaker 7: a toxic locker room, I dare to say 80 out
• 10:27
  Speaker 7: of 10 times that it starts with the veteran leadership
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  Speaker 7: not doing their job at a high level or being
• 10:32
  Speaker 7: consistent or not enough guys doing their job at a high.
• 10:35
  Speaker 5: Level and being consistent for the younger guys to follow.
• 10:38
  Speaker 7: And sometimes, you know, this is a young league and
• 10:41
  Speaker 7: maturity doesn't happen overnight, but more veteran guys and younger
• 10:45
  Speaker 7: guys helps younger guys to realize how to get in
• 10:47
  Speaker 7: line and how to approach their day each and every day.
• 10:49
  Speaker 7: So I'm, you know, I like Mike McCarthy's stance on it.
• 10:54
  Speaker 7: I just think right now it comes down to can I,
• 10:56
  Speaker 7: the guy you choose to follow, is he consistent about
• 10:59
  Speaker 7: his job and how much does he care about it,
• 11:01
  Speaker 7: which ultimately ripples throughout the locker room.
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: And by the way, you use that word, you know,
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: consistency a couple of times. And I, I think Willie,
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: you know, like, The average fan wants to see the
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: coach blowing up on the sideline and holding somebody accountable
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: and screaming.
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: So that everybody can see it.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: I believe, this is my opinion, that what you want
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: is consistency out of the coach, too. Look, Bill Cowher
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: might be one way. Mike Tomlin might be another way.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: Mike McCarthy might be another way. All of them can
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: be good as long as you know as a player
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: how you're going to be treated and what that means.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: Like Bill Cowher, jaw jutting out, you know, spit flying everywhere.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: He was going to act a certain way. I mean, personally,
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: for me, you know, and I think every, you know,
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: coach needs to know what motivates a player. So, you know,
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: whenever I played, for some reason, coaches thought, Rob's a
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: good guy to, you know, we can, he's got a
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: thick skin and, you know, we can use him to
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: make examples of. And so I was sometimes a whipping boy,
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: that sort of thing. And Actually, my skin wasn't quite that–
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: wasn't as thick as maybe they thought. Really, the biggest thing,
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: the biggest motivator for me was when a coach would
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: bring me in, not read me out in front of
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: the team. I don't care about that. Sit me down
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: and tell me, you're not playing, and here's why you're
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: not playing. That motivated me. But everybody's different, you know.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: So I think what a coach needs to know is
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: how to behave in a consistent manner that's reflective of
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: his own leadership style, and then two– how to treat
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: the players the same but different because you have to
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: know how to kind of get guys motivated, too. That,
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: to me, is what I think leadership from the– maybe
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: that's too much of a nutshell, but leadership of what
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: it looks like for a coach at the NFL level
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: or at any level, really.
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I say this.
• 12:59
  Speaker 7: I think when it comes down to a coach being
• 13:02
  Speaker 7: a leader, I credit Mike Tomlin for his inability to–
• 13:07
  Speaker 7: To have a pulse on the locker room, especially every
• 13:09
  Speaker 7: individual guy.
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: I remember when we had this quickly.
• 13:13
  Speaker 7: I remember we had a young offensive lineman by the
• 13:16
  Speaker 7: name of Chris Scott. And Chris Scott came from Tennessee,
• 13:21
  Speaker 7: and he was really playing well in practice, and they
• 13:23
  Speaker 7: wanted to give him an opportunity if he could show
• 13:25
  Speaker 7: up and possibly be considered a starter. And they had
• 13:28
  Speaker 7: given him some opportunities and reps. And when we would
• 13:31
  Speaker 7: be on the practice field, he would somehow mosey Like
• 13:36
  Speaker 7: I actually tell you, when we're in a practice world,
• 13:37
  Speaker 7: usually every position group is kind of by themselves. And
• 13:39
  Speaker 7: so the office and we were kind of waiting for
• 13:42
  Speaker 7: our time to get on the field and we were
• 13:43
  Speaker 7: kind of in the back corner. But Chris happened to
• 13:45
  Speaker 7: be on the other side of the field just standing
• 13:48
  Speaker 7: by himself. Now, Chris was a little bit of an introvert,
• 13:50
  Speaker 7: not a loud mouth at all. Tough kid, quiet, very
• 13:52
  Speaker 7: well mannered. And I remember Mike Tomlin coming up to
• 13:56
  Speaker 7: me and he was like, hey, well, he's like he
• 13:59
  Speaker 7: was he was a clone clone.
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: Let me talk to you a second. And I was like, yeah, coach,
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: what's going on? And he was like, man, what's going
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: on with C.
• 14:03
  Speaker 7: Scott?
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: And I was like, nothing. Just C. Scott, me and C.
• 14:06
  Speaker 7: Scott.
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: He was like, let's keep a close eye on him.
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: And I was like, sure. Did something happen?
• 14:11
  Speaker 7: He was like, well, he was like, I'm looking at
• 14:13
  Speaker 7: eight guys staying in the pack, and I got one
• 14:16
  Speaker 7: veered off by himself. I want to make sure that
• 14:19
  Speaker 7: everything from the neck up is okay. I'm not worrying
• 14:21
  Speaker 7: about it from a physical standpoint. And I just didn't
• 14:24
  Speaker 7: pay attention to that. And I'm in the room with
• 14:27
  Speaker 7: him every day.
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: And I said, okay.
• 14:29
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: And so I remember one day after.
• 14:31
  Speaker 7: Practice, you know, just talking to him, and I was
• 14:34
  Speaker 7: just like, you'll see, everything good, you know, everything cool.
• 14:36
  Speaker 7: And he was like, yeah, nothing's wrong. I'm just, you know, whatever.
• 14:39
  Speaker 7: And we kind of had a casual conversation. And as
• 14:41
  Speaker 7: we continued to talk, he started to reveal, like, you know,
• 14:44
  Speaker 7: he understands the moment. He understands what is being asked
• 14:48
  Speaker 7: of him, meaning that he has an opportunity to start,
• 14:50
  Speaker 7: and he didn't want to blow it. And I think
• 14:52
  Speaker 7: he was putting added pressure on himself, and when he
• 14:54
  Speaker 7: would turn on the tape, he would see the little
• 14:56
  Speaker 7: mistakes and he would see little things he would do.
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: And it started to become repetitive.
• 15:01
  Speaker 7: And he was worried about, he was blown about, he
• 15:03
  Speaker 7: was blowing his opportunity and he didn't feel like he
• 15:06
  Speaker 7: belonged with some of the starters like me and Pouncey
• 15:08
  Speaker 7: and the other guys are Ramon. And I had to
• 15:11
  Speaker 7: tell him, I was like, no, no, no. I was like,
• 15:12
  Speaker 7: that's the wrong mindset to have. I was like, you
• 15:14
  Speaker 7: understand this. We're all, nobody's perfect here, but we're all
• 15:16
  Speaker 7: trying to figure it out. And because he was an
• 15:18
  Speaker 7: undrafted free agent and, You know, he really wanted to play.
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: He really wanted to play well.
• 15:23
  Speaker 7: You'd tell that he was stacking more bricks on his
• 15:25
  Speaker 7: shoulder that needed to be there. And I just credit
• 15:28
  Speaker 7: Mike Tomlin. And I was able to talk to him,
• 15:30
  Speaker 7: and Chris played a little bit, and obviously he didn't
• 15:33
  Speaker 7: stay too long with the Steelers. I think he moved
• 15:35
  Speaker 7: on to the Panthers after that. But I was very
• 15:37
  Speaker 7: impressed by Mike Tomlin because he was the head coach who.
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: Has to oversee everything, right? I mean, he's the overseer.
• 15:44
  Speaker 7: He's the CEO and had enough wherewithal, to point out
• 15:49
  Speaker 7: one guy that looked like different from the pack. And
• 15:53
  Speaker 7: if he didn't point out C Scott to me and
• 15:56
  Speaker 7: where he didn't bring it to my light, I don't
• 15:58
  Speaker 7: know if I would have went up to Chris Scott
• 15:59
  Speaker 7: and said anything to him. If anything, I wouldn't even
• 16:02
  Speaker 7: pay attention to him because he was naturally a quiet guy,
• 16:05
  Speaker 7: but it was good that I, and I remember after
• 16:07
  Speaker 7: that conversation I had with Chris Scott, he was like, man,
• 16:10
  Speaker 7: I appreciate you coming up and talk to me big dog.
• 16:13
  Speaker 7: And it was, it was, it was, it was that moment.
• 16:16
  Speaker 7: We had that 20 minute conversation we had. that really
• 16:19
  Speaker 7: allowed him to kind of breathe a little bit, and
• 16:21
  Speaker 7: Chris went on to play and do fine. So it's
• 16:25
  Speaker 7: amazing how much coaches have to do, but the ones
• 16:28
  Speaker 7: who can see through the clouds, man, those are the
• 16:31
  Speaker 7: special ones. So I always credit Mike Tomlin for his
• 16:33
  Speaker 7: ability to do that.
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: Max?
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, you played for two different guys. I mean,
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: I'm assuming Bill Cowher and Mike Tomlin had different approaches.
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they did.
• 16:46
  Speaker 6: They did, and, you know– Willie kind of laid out
• 16:49
  Speaker 6: and intimated what Mike Tomlin was really perceptive and excellent at.
• 16:58
  Speaker 6: I think for Coach Cower, a lot of his strength
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: and bravado came from being a former player and his
• 17:07
  Speaker 6: ability to entrust the leaders, like to go to those
• 17:11
  Speaker 6: guys and allow them to lead. You know, similar approach
• 17:16
  Speaker 6: to Mike Tomlin, whereas Mike Tomlin was kind of having
• 17:18
  Speaker 6: the pulse. But, you know, Coach Cowher would be the
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: one checking in with those guys, right? He would go
• 17:25
  Speaker 6: talk to.
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: Tommy Maddox.
• 17:28
  Speaker 6: He'd go talk to an Alan Fanica. He'd go speak
• 17:32
  Speaker 6: with Joey Porter.
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: He would go.
• 17:34
  Speaker 6: Talk with James Farrier and have those conversations with Ja'Shea
• 17:39
  Speaker 6: Towns and Chad Scott back in my rookie year. talk
• 17:44
  Speaker 6: to Hines and get an idea for what he didn't want.
• 17:48
  Speaker 6: He didn't he never wanted to encroach on that player
• 17:51
  Speaker 6: coach relationship and infringe upon it, except for on game
• 17:54
  Speaker 6: days where he'd get right in your face.
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: And let you know exactly how he feels.
• 17:58
  Speaker 6: But other than those moments, like on the day to
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: day basis, you know, Coach Coward just he didn't really
• 18:07
  Speaker 6: walk to the locker room. He didn't really have the,
• 18:09
  Speaker 6: you know, hang out like that. He was upstairs. He said,
• 18:12
  Speaker 6: the locker room, that's your place. And that's where, you know,
• 18:17
  Speaker 6: you guys can get away from the world. This is
• 18:19
  Speaker 6: your protected bubble. And so he would never infringe upon
• 18:24
  Speaker 6: that and allowed the guys that had issues, you know, to.
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: Talk to the other leaders.
• 18:29
  Speaker 6: And then he always had an open-door policy just like
• 18:31
  Speaker 6: Mike T, where you could go to his office if
• 18:34
  Speaker 6: you had any personal issues or anything and talk to
• 18:37
  Speaker 6: him directly. But the the entire leadership structure, it was
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: like a corporation, you know, where where he's like, I'm
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: at the head of this. I'll make the final decision,
• 18:49
  Speaker 6: but I'm allow my leaders to lead this team and
• 18:54
  Speaker 6: managers to manage it.
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 18:55
  Speaker 6: And so, you know, I was a young guy for
• 19:00
  Speaker 6: the for my three years with with Bill Cower and,
• 19:04
  Speaker 6: you know, just watching.
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: Him and going through some.
• 19:08
  Speaker 6: Some pretty, pretty rough, funny, competitive times there. He was
• 19:13
  Speaker 6: that guy that, you know, if I needed anything, I
• 19:16
  Speaker 6: knew I could always ask him. But I also knew that, hey,
• 19:18
  Speaker 6: I need to go talk to Jeff Hardings.
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: I need to go talk to Alan Fanica. You know,
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: talk to Russ. And if that doesn't work, go to Wiz.
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: And then you move your way up to BC. But.
• 19:31
  Speaker 6: You trust at every single level. And I had, you know,
• 19:34
  Speaker 6: I had great teammates. I had great coaches. And Willie
• 19:36
  Speaker 6: can attest to that. He had the same ones that
• 19:38
  Speaker 6: I had. And there's something about that, you know, and
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: both of us have been to different places after our
• 19:47
  Speaker 6: time in Pittsburgh and. we can always say the grass
• 19:51
  Speaker 6: is not always greener, right, Will? It is not always greener.
• 19:57
  Speaker 6: And when you look back, I'm more appreciative of what
• 19:59
  Speaker 6: I had in Pittsburgh because of that, because it laid
• 20:03
  Speaker 6: the foundation to where I could then see what I
• 20:06
  Speaker 6: needed to do when I stepped into those other places.
• 20:09
  Speaker 6: And I wasn't like a wide-eyed rookie because if I
• 20:12
  Speaker 6: walked in as a rookie, I'd be like, man, this
• 20:14
  Speaker 6: is different.
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: You know? Oh, my gosh.
• 20:18
  Speaker 6: Like, what am I supposed to do here? But it's like,
• 20:21
  Speaker 6: we don't do this around here. You start asking questions
• 20:23
  Speaker 6: and they can't answer the questions. You're like, wait a second,
• 20:25
  Speaker 6: this is common sense stuff. So it is something that's
• 20:28
  Speaker 6: special and I do appreciate what, at the end of
• 20:32
  Speaker 6: the day, I appreciate what Mike McCarthy said and understanding
• 20:34
  Speaker 6: that that's how it needs to be. But I appreciate
• 20:36
  Speaker 6: the coaches that we had before that really showed us
• 20:40
  Speaker 6: the way and gave us different structures to kind of
• 20:43
  Speaker 6: look at. And we had veterans in place that we
• 20:45
  Speaker 6: could depend on and look to to help us.
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: All right. We have much to get to.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: Mike McCarthy had some injury updates. We're going to get
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: to it. One particular position has been hit hard for
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: the Steelers. We'll talk about what the Steelers might do
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: to navigate through that crazy Monday night football game last
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: night as well. We will also weigh in on that.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: We continue in the locker room here. on the Steelers
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: Audio Network.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: This is In the Locker Room with Rob King, Max Starks,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: and Willie Colon on Steelers Nation Radio, brought to you
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: in part by the Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop at shop.steelers.com.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: And by your neighborhood Ford store, the F-150 is the
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: official truck of the Pittsburgh Steelers.
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: And welcome back inside the locker room.
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: Thank you very much for being with us before we
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: move on to the Steelers' injury situation here heading into
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: this week against Tampa Bay.
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: Willie, crazy game last night on Monday Night Football.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: You know, it was a weird game that, you know,
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: the Bills were leading for a lot of it, and
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: yet the Rams were running way more plays, sort of
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: dominating the pace of play, and then a crazy overtime fumble,
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: block field goal. by the Bills after James Cook had fumbled,
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: and they come back and kick the game-winning field goal.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: I don't know if we can say too much about
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: either team after that loss, or after that game, other
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: than the fact that it was an entertaining game.
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: Oh, it was a lights-out game, bro.
• 22:26
  Speaker 7: That's the type of game the NFL would probably keep
• 22:28
  Speaker 7: on loop, just because of the high-octane football that was
• 22:32
  Speaker 7: displayed last night. I think first and foremost for the
• 22:35
  Speaker 7: Buffalo Bills to go on the road against the Rams, man,
• 22:39
  Speaker 7: and you know the type of offense they have. Defensively,
• 22:41
  Speaker 7: you know, obviously they would love to.
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: Play a lot better.
• 22:44
  Speaker 7: You know, they played a lot of zone, the Rams did,
• 22:47
  Speaker 7: and they actually got gashed through all four quarters up
• 22:49
  Speaker 7: front in the run game. James Cook, despite his fumble abilities,
• 22:55
  Speaker 7: his fumble abilities, despite him fumbling the ball, and obviously
• 22:59
  Speaker 7: he had a crucial one, late in the game in overtime,
• 23:03
  Speaker 7: to be exact.
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: I could be wrong with that. Yes, it was overtime.
• 23:06
  Speaker 5: It was overtime, right? Yeah.
• 23:08
  Speaker 7: So that's something he's going to have to figure out.
• 23:11
  Speaker 7: But I think if you talk to Joe Brady, man,
• 23:14
  Speaker 7: this team had over like 14 or 15 penalties. And
• 23:17
  Speaker 7: plus the fumbles, it's once again one of the things
• 23:21
  Speaker 7: that they have to clean up. I think we've talked
• 23:25
  Speaker 7: about it, and I think across all platforms out of Buffalo,
• 23:29
  Speaker 7: Bill's window, It's slowly closing. They look like a legit
• 23:34
  Speaker 7: tender because of Josh Allen, what he proved last night
• 23:37
  Speaker 7: after the block field goal from Gray Russo in overtime.
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: You know, he literally put the team on his back.
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: He's like, enough, I'm finishing this thing. And he did
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: with two big runs.
• 23:48
  Speaker 7: And it was interesting because I thought the Rams, even
• 23:50
  Speaker 7: though they were playing zone, you would think they would
• 23:52
  Speaker 7: have a spy on Josh Allen. Josh Allen killed him
• 23:55
  Speaker 7: with his legs in the run game and that offensive line.
• 23:59
  Speaker 7: And it was explosive plays after explosive plays on both
• 24:02
  Speaker 7: sides of the football, meaning the Rams' offense and the Bills' offense.
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: And so it was an electric game, man.
• 24:10
  Speaker 7: The more and more I look at the Buffalo Bills,
• 24:12
  Speaker 7: it feels like, man, more now than ever that this
• 24:15
  Speaker 7: may be the year they actually get one. But if
• 24:17
  Speaker 7: you're Matthew Stafford and the Rams, I don't think you
• 24:20
  Speaker 7: could play better on offense. I mean, they responded time
• 24:22
  Speaker 7: after time, even late in the fourth quarter where Stafford
• 24:26
  Speaker 7: got the ball back. I think Puka Nakura had over
• 24:30
  Speaker 7: 19 catches or something like that, or close to 19
• 24:33
  Speaker 7: catches or targets.
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: With all that said, man, they were electric, man. The Rams,
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: even though they lost that game.
• 24:41
  Speaker 7: And I'm pretty sure they're absolutely sick to their stomach
• 24:43
  Speaker 7: because it felt like it was a no-brainer after James
• 24:45
  Speaker 7: Cook fumbled that ball and they were able to march
• 24:47
  Speaker 7: down the field.
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: All they needed was.
• 24:49
  Speaker 7: A field goal from Mevis to get out the building
• 24:51
  Speaker 7: with the dub for it to get blocked.
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: They probably nauseated with that, so Overall, it was a
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: great game. Love it.
• 24:58
  Speaker 7: It's definitely one of them games where you can watch
• 25:01
  Speaker 7: that game with no value, and you'll be still excited
• 25:04
  Speaker 7: and entertained by it.
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: It was a good Monday night.
• 25:08
  Speaker 7: Football game between two Hall of Fame quarterbacks, and it
• 25:11
  Speaker 7: was good to see Stafford go to toe with.
• 25:15
  Speaker 5: Allen, and they put on a show. So it was
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: good all the way around.
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: Allen had 10 carries for 121 yards.
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: He killed him with it. Yeah, he did.
• 25:26
  Speaker 7: I don't think I've since, you know, they always say
• 25:29
  Speaker 7: there's quarterbacks who scramble to run and there's always quarterbacks
• 25:33
  Speaker 7: who scramble to throw.
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: He does both really, really well. And so his game.
• 25:38
  Speaker 7: Is probably as complete as we've seen in a long time.
• 25:41
  Speaker 7: And I just like his killer instinct. And I just
• 25:44
  Speaker 7: hope he, you know, he continues to stay healthy. And
• 25:46
  Speaker 7: the Bills got a legit shot. You just see it
• 25:48
  Speaker 7: starting to form.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: They ran the Rams 78 plays. 78 plays to 57
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: for the Bills. Now, again, some of it is because
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: he tucked it and ran. But Josh Allen only threw
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: the ball 19 times. 19 times.
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: That was it. That's all he threw.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: Puka Nakua had 17 receptions on his own for the Rams,
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: you know. But listen, and Cook was effective. They did
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: what they needed to do to win. And that's the
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: bottom line.
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: And the Rams.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: as Willie said, and we'll get into the power rankings tomorrow, Max,
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: they've got to be absolutely sick to their stomach that
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: they're 2-3 right now. Nobody's writing them off or anything
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: like that, but they came in as one of the
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: super team rosters, one of the best rosters we.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: Have seen in a long, long time in the NFL.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: Maybe even pre-free agency when you talk about all the
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: guys they have on that team and how loaded they are,
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: and now they're 2-3.
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, two and three.
• 26:51
  Speaker 6: And once again, your defense, you know, just did not
• 26:56
  Speaker 6: answer the call. And you thought this was the difference
• 26:58
  Speaker 6: maker for this team that was going to put.
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: Them over the top. And Matthew Stafford threw the ball
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: 54 times.
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: 54 times.
• 27:06
  Speaker 6: 54 attempts. And it still wasn't enough offensively. And you
• 27:15
  Speaker 6: would argue that. I mean, he threw for almost 400
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: yards and had three touchdowns.
• 27:19
  Speaker 5: You know. Fantasy owners love video game. But yeah, exactly.
• 27:24
  Speaker 6: And so and then you look at Josh Allen, the
• 27:26
  Speaker 6: winning quarterback, threw it 19 times like that just goes
• 27:29
  Speaker 6: to show you kind of the microcosm of it, like
• 27:32
  Speaker 6: ridiculous stats and numbers. But like you said, it comes
• 27:36
  Speaker 6: down to the team that held out the longest. And
• 27:40
  Speaker 6: when you make that one clutch play, like when you
• 27:44
  Speaker 6: when you block a kick, special teams has to be
• 27:46
  Speaker 6: special when everything else is equal. Special teams has to
• 27:50
  Speaker 6: be special, and Mevis didn't get it done, and let's
• 27:55
  Speaker 6: just face it.
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: The Bills got it done. And, you know, how about this?
• 28:00
  Speaker 5: Joe Brady electing to kick it on second down, right?
• 28:04
  Speaker 6: Let's just get out of here. I don't even need
• 28:05
  Speaker 6: to try and get any closer. Are we in Tyler
• 28:07
  Speaker 6: Bass area? Okay, we're in Tyler Bass zone. Send him
• 28:10
  Speaker 6: out there, and let's just get this game over with.
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: You know, I can't be critical of that move, but
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: go ahead.
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: I'm sorry.
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: Go ahead, Willie, please.
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: No, no, no.
• 28:19
  Speaker 7: What's interesting, I was going back and forth with one
• 28:22
  Speaker 7: of my good frenemies, Bart Scott, about the plethora and
• 28:28
  Speaker 7: the plague of the peanut punch, how it's pretty much
• 28:32
  Speaker 7: become this thing. It reminds me when Steph Curry was
• 28:35
  Speaker 7: being highlighted for shooting an insane amount of threes, and
• 28:38
  Speaker 7: obviously he's one of the best shooters of all time,
• 28:41
  Speaker 7: if not the best shooter on time. And now we've
• 28:43
  Speaker 7: watched the game emerge from– you know, being a jump
• 28:46
  Speaker 7: shooting fundamental game and now everybody's.
• 28:49
  Speaker 5: Shooting threes, right?
• 28:50
  Speaker 7: Like you got bigs that can shoot threes and it's
• 28:52
  Speaker 7: definitely changed the trajectory of basketball.
• 28:55
  Speaker 5: And I think the same thing is happening in football.
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: Whether you're watching college, when you're watching pros.
• 29:02
  Speaker 8: The peanut punch, the haymaker punch to get the football
• 29:06
  Speaker 8: has become the new traditional tackle. And we saw it
• 29:10
  Speaker 8: Monday night, I mean, Sunday night against the Rams and
• 29:13
  Speaker 8: Falcons when Mark Andrews literally had a touchdown for six,
• 29:16
  Speaker 8: and it was punched out at the last minute. Then
• 29:18
  Speaker 8: you go last night on Monday Night Football with the
• 29:20
  Speaker 8: Rams and Bills where, you know, James Cook at this point,
• 29:23
  Speaker 8: he may have trauma.
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: He may be legit.
• 29:26
  Speaker 7: And may need to go see somebody because all he
• 29:29
  Speaker 7: was doing was taking a simple dive up the middle,
• 29:32
  Speaker 7: and the linebacker for the Rams, Landstrom, I think is
• 29:36
  Speaker 7: his name. I apologize if I'm getting it wrong, went
• 29:38
  Speaker 7: for a haymaker punch, boom. right on the nose of
• 29:40
  Speaker 7: the ball, and the thing comes out. Aaron Donald recovers it,
• 29:43
  Speaker 7: and here comes the Rams. And I'm saying to myself,
• 29:46
  Speaker 7: as much as I don't like it, because I think
• 29:48
  Speaker 7: it gives too many guys on the football field an
• 29:53
  Speaker 7: easy way out, right? I think if you feel like
• 29:56
  Speaker 7: you're about to get run over, I guess the attempt
• 29:58
  Speaker 7: at the peanut punt, punch at the ball, excuse me.
• 30:01
  Speaker 7: It just leads to a guy saying, well, at least
• 30:03
  Speaker 7: I tried to try to punch at the ball. I said,
• 30:06
  Speaker 7: if you go back to the Sunday night game against
• 30:08
  Speaker 7: the Ravens, Falcons Ravens, you watch Matt, Mike Hughes, the
• 30:12
  Speaker 7: DB from the Falcons.
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: He is running.
• 30:14
  Speaker 7: Laterally at Derrick Henry and Derrick Henry is all of it.
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: He's a truck. Mike Hughes laid his body on.
• 30:20
  Speaker 7: The line and stopped that touchdown. And I'm saying to myself,
• 30:24
  Speaker 7: I don't think everybody's worthy of doing the peanut punch,
• 30:27
  Speaker 7: but when you see how impactful it is, like it
• 30:29
  Speaker 7: was last night, it makes you say, man, there's something
• 30:32
  Speaker 7: to this. And cause we've seen Tina, we see TJ
• 30:36
  Speaker 7: watch do it.
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: We see multiple guys use.
• 30:39
  Speaker 7: That punch out and actually, and be able to flip
• 30:41
  Speaker 7: the field and turn.
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: The ball over. And I, and I just, it's, it's a,
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: it's a hate it, love it.
• 30:46
  Speaker 7: Thing with me right now, but it's obviously effective because
• 30:49
  Speaker 7: it definitely impacted that game in a big way last night.
• 30:53
  Speaker 5: But I think it just promotes poor tackling.
• 30:55
  Speaker 7: But at the same time, man, it's something when the
• 30:57
  Speaker 7: ball's out and the defense makes a big play and
• 31:00
  Speaker 7: gives the offense another chance to score.
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: I believe a few years ago when T.J.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: Watt, who seemed to be at the front end of
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: this thing, I believe he swung and missed at a
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: guy and hit him and they called him for a
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: personal foul. I could be wrong about that, but I
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: believe I remember that. And, I mean, that is one
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: thing that, should probably be something to litigate because I
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: don't think the NFL wants a bunch of fumbles and
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: guys throwing haymakers out there. And if you wanted to
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: cut that down, maybe you missed that peanut punch and
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: hit a guy and maybe it's a 15-yard penalty. That
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: may limit that a little bit, Willie, if they just
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: tried to– not that I'm for more legislation in the game,
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: but that might be one way to try to eliminate
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: that a little bit.
• 31:49
  Speaker 7: I don't think they touch it, but I do think
• 31:52
  Speaker 7: if you're a coach right now, you have to somehow
• 31:56
  Speaker 7: figure out how am I teaching proper tackling, which we've
• 31:58
  Speaker 7: talked about. Remember a week ago before this game, we
• 32:01
  Speaker 7: were talking about how bad the tackling was for the
• 32:03
  Speaker 7: Pittsburgh Steelers against the Browns, right? We literally sat here
• 32:05
  Speaker 7: and pounded the table like they got to tackle better.
• 32:07
  Speaker 7: Mike McCarthy jumped on there and said, we got to
• 32:09
  Speaker 7: clean up our house. And one of the things we're
• 32:11
  Speaker 7: going to do by cleaning up our house.
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: Is addressing tackling.
• 32:14
  Speaker 7: But then if you comb through football from college to pros, man,
• 32:17
  Speaker 7: guys are peanut punching left and right.
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: And the ball's all over the place.
• 32:21
  Speaker 7: And so it's a weird thing because, yes, I do
• 32:25
  Speaker 7: believe fundamentally tackling.
• 32:27
  Speaker 5: I do think it's better tackling.
• 32:29
  Speaker 7: To have guys, a collective effort of guys tackling the ball,
• 32:33
  Speaker 7: the ball carrier the proper way. But man, it's, it's,
• 32:37
  Speaker 7: you see how much it impacts the game and crucial situation,
• 32:40
  Speaker 7: especially gotta have in moments where, I mean, James Cook,
• 32:44
  Speaker 7: you could tell on the sideline, he, he, he actually,
• 32:47
  Speaker 7: when they, when they were kicking the ball, he couldn't
• 32:50
  Speaker 7: even look, he was disgusted with himself. And as he
• 32:52
  Speaker 7: was disgusted that he put his team in that situation,
• 32:54
  Speaker 7: that was the second.
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: Fumble of the night.
• 32:56
  Speaker 7: And, I'm looking at– if I'm a head coach right now,
• 32:59
  Speaker 7: I don't know how much I want to temper guys
• 33:02
  Speaker 7: for taking a punch at the ball. But I also
• 33:05
  Speaker 7: want guys being able to wrap up and getting guys
• 33:07
  Speaker 7: to the ground. I think the Seahawks are one of
• 33:08
  Speaker 7: the best tackling teams in all.
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: Of football right now.
• 33:13
  Speaker 7: And you don't see them do a lot of punching,
• 33:15
  Speaker 7: but you see them wrap up, get guys to the ground,
• 33:18
  Speaker 7: laying the boom. And I'm stuck.
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: I'm stuck, man. I love the peanut. I'm starting to
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: fall in love with it.
• 33:24
  Speaker 7: But at the same time, my man, if you get
• 33:25
  Speaker 7: a big-time back to blow through a guy's arm while
• 33:28
  Speaker 7: he's trying to punch, most backs in that situation are
• 33:31
  Speaker 7: rolling forward or running through those type of things. And,
• 33:35
  Speaker 7: you know, running backs are taught to run through arm tackles.
• 33:38
  Speaker 7: And so if you constantly see a wave of guys
• 33:40
  Speaker 7: punching at the ball, you know, it just feels like
• 33:43
  Speaker 7: it's a bunch of running backs going through the cones.
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: So I don't know.
• 33:46
  Speaker 7: But it's an interesting phenomenon going on right now.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: Here's the one I have a problem with, Max, is–
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: envision in your mind a wide receiver or whatever running
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: down the field. He's inside the 20. He's inside the 15.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: And here comes a defensive back. He's got the football
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: in the right spot. Maybe he's running on it. Got
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: in that right arm as he's running down the right sideline.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: And the defensive back, instead of coming up and tackling him,
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: kind of puts one hand on that left shoulder and
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: starts punching at the ball, right? I mean, I've seen
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: this before. I actually brought it up to his steward's assistant.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: He goes, you better not see us doing that. I'm like,
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: how do you not coach that? And he's like, well,
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: we're not going to allow that kind of thing. But
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: you've seen it around the league, and all of a sudden,
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: you know, think about, okay, listen, that's an all-or-nothing play,
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: and nothing means touchdown. You tackle the guy. Maybe your
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: defense can hold. Maybe you get a sack. Maybe you
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: get a strip the next play. But, you know, it is–
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: it does seem, as Willie said, kind of a bailout
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: to me, Max, when you see guys do that.
• 34:48
  Speaker 6: It is a bailout, and it is– It is one
• 34:52
  Speaker 6: that you look at it and you say, you know,
• 34:56
  Speaker 6: just make the tackle, make the play. But everybody's trying
• 34:59
  Speaker 6: to make a splash play. Everybody's trying to do something
• 35:04
  Speaker 6: that's going to give them a high volume rate. And
• 35:07
  Speaker 6: they're going to just be in a position where the
• 35:12
  Speaker 6: poor tackling is going to lead to shrug off plays
• 35:15
  Speaker 6: as opposed to just being solid.
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: Like make the play and finish it off properly. And
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: guys are like, no, no, no. If I do this,
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: it's going.
• 35:24
  Speaker 6: To make this better. It's like, no, no, it's not.
• 35:27
  Speaker 6: It's like, just get the play down. And then you
• 35:29
  Speaker 6: wonder about guys, you know, when you watch four or
• 35:33
  Speaker 6: five missed tackles and a guy breaks it for like
• 35:36
  Speaker 6: 25 and 30, where you could have had him down
• 35:39
  Speaker 6: at six or maybe even three.
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: But it's like, oh, no, I might get this forced
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: fumble on my stat sheet. And then.
• 35:48
  Speaker 6: you're sitting there losing your mind as a fan because
• 35:51
  Speaker 6: you're like, okay, why did he go for this?
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: Why did he do this? And I'm not a fan
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: of it.
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: I'm not a fan.
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: I don't like it at all. And I might be
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: the old man on the porch.
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: Let me circle back to one more thing.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: I'm with you. Let me ask you one more thing, Willie.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: Let me jump in here real quick because we've got
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: to take a break. But this reminds me of like
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: we're talking about consistency in coaches and leadership. I think
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: this is where you need that. Because, listen, I've seen coaches,
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: you know, there's a loose ball fumble and a guy
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: falls on it. And the coach says, hey, man, pick
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: that up and.
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: Make a play. You know, make a play. And then
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: the next week the guy tries to make a play,
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: doesn't pick it up. Just fall on it. Fall on
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: the football.
• 36:34
  Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying?
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: Like you've got to be consistent, right? You're messaging. You
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: know what I'm talking about, don't you guys?
• 36:40
  Speaker 7: No, 100%.
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
• 36:40
  Speaker 7: 100%.
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: Listen, I'll forever be a fan of. Fall on the
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: damn ball.
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: I totally agree.
• 36:47
  Speaker 7: Not enough guys are coordinated to run, scoop, and score.
• 36:50
  Speaker 7: Even though it is practice. And you are an athlete.
• 36:56
  Speaker 5: Right, you are an athlete.
• 36:56
  Speaker 7: But me and Max have both been a part of
• 36:58
  Speaker 7: drills where they flip the ball out and they teach
• 37:02
  Speaker 7: us how to cover the football. It's something that is
• 37:05
  Speaker 7: practice in practice. But we've never been taught to pick
• 37:08
  Speaker 7: it up and run in real time. So I'm a
• 37:12
  Speaker 7: fan of teach everybody just follow the damn ball because
• 37:15
  Speaker 7: we've seen time after time guys try to pick it
• 37:17
  Speaker 7: up in real time. They end up kicking it or
• 37:19
  Speaker 7: being pushed over or something wacky happens.
• 37:22
  Speaker 5: Just get the damn ball back. I'd rather have it
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: than say I should have had it.
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: But be consistent in the messaging. I think that goes
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: back to the coaching, right?
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: Be consistent and, hey, if this is what you want
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: to do, okay, we may not agree with it, but
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: do it across the board and hopefully that consistency helps
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: your team out and again a little faction of leadership
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: as well.
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely.
• 37:46
  Speaker 6: It's one of those things you have to be a
• 37:49
  Speaker 6: sound football team and I've never seen a team that
• 37:52
  Speaker 6: gets fumbles in good territory and they worry about, oh
• 37:55
  Speaker 6: my gosh, what will they do? Will they be able
• 37:58
  Speaker 6: to do this or not? If you have possession, you
• 38:02
  Speaker 6: have a shot. Let the offense do the offense thing. Defense,
• 38:05
  Speaker 6: you're great and all, but you know, just get the
• 38:07
  Speaker 6: ball back to us.
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: That's what they always say.
• 38:09
  Speaker 6: Get us the ball back and we'll, we'll do the job.
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: And that's what we ask for.
• 38:14
  Speaker 6: Or, Hey, can you guys just hold on long enough
• 38:16
  Speaker 6: for us that, you know, we can get a breath
• 38:19
  Speaker 6: on the sideline. Everybody has to do their job. When
• 38:21
  Speaker 6: you start doing those, then turn into things where you're
• 38:24
  Speaker 6: doing more than your job and it's, and it's not
• 38:27
  Speaker 6: coming out the right way.
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: All right, stick around.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: We are going to get to the The Steelers injury
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: news when we continue here in the locker room on
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: the Steelers Audio Network.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: This is In the Locker Room with Rob King, Max Starks,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: and Willie Colon on Steelers Nation Radio. Brought to you
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: in part by the Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop at shop.steelers.com.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: And by your neighborhood Ford store. The F-150 is the
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: official truck of the Pittsburgh Steelers.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Everybody has experience of what they've done other places in
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: their career. The communication is obviously very important. Frankly, I
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: thought the network of communication was what it needed to be.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Yesterday on the defensive lines from my interaction, I've called
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: games from the sideline.
• 39:26
  Speaker 5: It's easier to call from the box.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: But the direct communication with the players to me has
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: always been the most important. We tried it the other
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: way and this is what it needs.
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: To look like.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: Again, as we welcome you back to the locker room,
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: more comments that I enjoyed by head coach Mike McCarthy
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: from yesterday's press conference. With Willie Colon and Max Starks,
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: I'm Rob King. Thanks for being with us in the
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: locker room. And he made the decision. Look, you know,
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: someone talked about, you know, I was talking with somebody
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: who said, well, they should have made this decision in
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: the preseason. Okay, maybe. But you're trying to work out
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: what's best and what's comfortable for your coaches and what's
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: best for your team. This is the kind of decision
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: to me. Max, it's a good one for a head coach, right?
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: He's saying, okay. I've tried this. I've got to communicate.
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: I want my players to be comfortable. I have a
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: certain way of doing things. I have respect in Patrick Graham.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: We tried it his way. I think he's a terrific coach. Obviously,
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: that's why I hired him. Now we're going to try
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: it my way. That's what a head coach is supposed
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: to do. For all the people that say, well, they
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: should have done it earlier. Well, you had to give
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: it a try, right? That's what they wanted, and now
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: you're stepping in and saying, Patrick Graham's going to be
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: down in the field. So, first of all, what did
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: you think about the decision– the ability to make that decision, Max,
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: by Mike McCarthy, and then the decision itself in bringing
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: Patrick Graham down to the sidelines.
• 40:56
  Speaker 5: That's quality head coaching.
• 40:58
  Speaker 6: Like, understanding what the situation calls for, how the communication
• 41:03
  Speaker 6: needs to flow, and obviously when you look back on it,
• 41:06
  Speaker 6: he hears everything, right? He hears the offensive and the
• 41:09
  Speaker 6: defensive microphone, you know, the headsets.
• 41:14
  Speaker 5: So I'm sure he heard the.
• 41:15
  Speaker 6: Complications that were going on in that Cleveland game, and
• 41:19
  Speaker 6: the fact that it happened multiple times, and then you
• 41:22
  Speaker 6: make a decision. It's not in reaction to what was
• 41:24
  Speaker 6: on TV. It wasn't because, oh, Amazon Prime put a
• 41:29
  Speaker 6: camera on it and made a big deal about it. Oh,
• 41:31
  Speaker 6: I need to make something in response to them. No,
• 41:34
  Speaker 6: he's got a pulse on this team. He's listening to
• 41:37
  Speaker 6: what that communication's sounding like, and he doesn't like it.
• 41:40
  Speaker 6: So he's like, hey, Pat, I know you like to
• 41:43
  Speaker 6: see things from an all-22 perspective, right? You know, and
• 41:48
  Speaker 6: you can see everything. But the guys need you down here.
• 41:51
  Speaker 6: You have to be able to make these adjustments in person.
• 41:54
  Speaker 6: They need to see your face and understand what's being
• 41:58
  Speaker 6: asked of them. And if you have an issue, you
• 42:00
  Speaker 6: can go directly to those players. And it looked like
• 42:02
  Speaker 6: a better communication flow from our perspective as we were
• 42:07
  Speaker 6: watching it, right? Things were cleaner. Guys weren't out of
• 42:10
  Speaker 6: alignment as much. And I think that's kind of what
• 42:14
  Speaker 6: you look at and you say, okay, this is what
• 42:15
  Speaker 6: we need to do.
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: This is it. And you make the call.
• 42:19
  Speaker 6: It's not about, oh, TJ Watt and Cam Hayward came
• 42:22
  Speaker 6: and talked to me and asked me if I could
• 42:23
  Speaker 6: ask you to come down there.
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: No, no, no.
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: It didn't work that way. They can make suggestions, but
• 42:27
  Speaker 5: at the end of the.
• 42:28
  Speaker 6: Day, that's part of the head coaching managerial duties of
• 42:33
  Speaker 6: the job is I got to figure out how to
• 42:36
  Speaker 6: get these guys to work at their best so they're
• 42:38
  Speaker 6: not worrying about anything but performance on the field doing
• 42:42
  Speaker 6: their jobs if it starts to be other things that
• 42:45
  Speaker 6: means i need to make the adjustments and that's what
• 42:47
  Speaker 6: he did he made those appropriately willie.
• 42:53
  Speaker 7: Sorry about that my mic was off um so i
• 42:57
  Speaker 7: think a couple things i think the steelers and that
• 42:59
  Speaker 7: still is defense rather simply wasn't used to having that
• 43:02
  Speaker 7: defensive coordinator up in the booth they needed patrick graham
• 43:06
  Speaker 7: to be.
• 43:08
  Speaker 5: On the ground. And I think Patrick Raymond talked about
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: it during an interview.
• 43:11
  Speaker 7: He was saying, Hey man, I realized that I have
• 43:14
  Speaker 7: to change my cadence.
• 43:15
  Speaker 5: I have to be more selfless.
• 43:18
  Speaker 7: Um, how I see things in a book compared to
• 43:20
  Speaker 7: how I see things on the sideline is different. I
• 43:23
  Speaker 7: think he even attested to when he was a young coordinator,
• 43:26
  Speaker 7: he would have like this Denny size menu of things
• 43:29
  Speaker 7: he will want to call and kind of just kind
• 43:31
  Speaker 7: of lean on a script.
• 43:32
  Speaker 5: Now he's a little more seasoned and older.
• 43:35
  Speaker 7: He's, he has strung the script and now he's using
• 43:39
  Speaker 7: his eyes and his feel with the communication he's receiving
• 43:42
  Speaker 7: off the sideline to call plays.
• 43:44
  Speaker 5: And me and Max are used to, and.
• 43:46
  Speaker 7: I know the defense has always highlighted and contribute to,
• 43:49
  Speaker 7: or talked about Dick Lebow's ability to not play with
• 43:53
  Speaker 7: the call sheet.
• 43:53
  Speaker 5: Like he just, he called it as he saw it.
• 43:56
  Speaker 7: And he was literally playing chess out there and he
• 43:58
  Speaker 7: was calling things off the top of his head. And
• 44:01
  Speaker 7: so there was a sense of mystique and magic to that. Now,
• 44:04
  Speaker 7: obviously he, Patrick Graham is no Dick LeBeau, but Patrick
• 44:07
  Speaker 7: Graham has also talked about he's learned a lot from
• 44:10
  Speaker 7: Brian Flores, who now has a top-five defense in the
• 44:14
  Speaker 7: league right now and is being glorified for his ability
• 44:17
  Speaker 7: to blitz and really neutralize offenses to the point where
• 44:20
  Speaker 7: they've not existed through all four quarters. So I think
• 44:23
  Speaker 7: Patrick Graham is really... learning to adjust. I think he's
• 44:26
  Speaker 7: learning to see things through his players' eyes. I think
• 44:29
  Speaker 7: he's also willing to say, hey, man, I'm going to
• 44:31
  Speaker 7: do whatever it takes for this defense to be what
• 44:34
  Speaker 7: it needs to be with the talent they currently have.
• 44:37
  Speaker 7: And so it's good to see his ability to hit
• 44:40
  Speaker 7: the sideline and take it for what it is, learn,
• 44:44
  Speaker 7: and being able to iron out things in real time.
• 44:47
  Speaker 7: I think the one thing the Steelers didn't want to
• 44:49
  Speaker 7: see from an organizational standpoint, it's okay for your 43-year-old
• 44:52
  Speaker 7: quarterback who necessarily wasn't birthed into this Steelers culture, meaning
• 44:57
  Speaker 7: Aaron Rodgers, be unhinged because that's who he's always been, right?
• 45:01
  Speaker 5: Aaron's always been kind of edgy. But it's another thing
• 45:03
  Speaker 5: for a guy like T.J.
• 45:04
  Speaker 7: Watt, who was birthed into this organization, who's been the
• 45:06
  Speaker 7: face of this organization for so long, rip a headset off,
• 45:10
  Speaker 7: grab it, and have to yell out his defensive corner.
• 45:12
  Speaker 5: They didn't want to see that ever again, right?
• 45:14
  Speaker 7: Because they understand that if he becomes unhinged and if
• 45:17
  Speaker 7: he starts to have these bouts, then that can lead
• 45:20
  Speaker 7: to other guys popping off and being unhinged as well.
• 45:23
  Speaker 7: So there was something that needed to be changed. Mike
• 45:27
  Speaker 7: McCarthy is valid as the head coach, but he's also
• 45:30
  Speaker 7: an office-minded head coach. There's a lot of belief– he
• 45:33
  Speaker 7: has a lot of belief in Patrick Graham to own
• 45:36
  Speaker 7: his side of the ship, right? And so he has
• 45:38
  Speaker 7: to make sure that Patrick is not only doing his job,
• 45:41
  Speaker 7: which I'm pretty sure he trusts, that Patrick is also
• 45:43
  Speaker 7: willing to adhere to whatever is needed for the Steelers
• 45:46
  Speaker 7: to win. So I think right now, you know, holding
• 45:50
  Speaker 7: the Colts to 22 points, I think they only gained
• 45:52
  Speaker 7: 332 yards. But after two– I think two straight weeks–
• 45:58
  Speaker 7: you know, they've allowed 350 yards per game. So they
• 46:03
  Speaker 7: got to figure that out and kind of clean that up.
• 46:05
  Speaker 7: But overall, I thought Sunday, considering that Daylon Everett and
• 46:10
  Speaker 7: Rashawn Jennings, excuse me, Jennings, if you will, Robert Spears Jennings,
• 46:15
  Speaker 7: having two rookies out there that stood up in a
• 46:17
  Speaker 7: big way out there, I think those were good signs.
• 46:19
  Speaker 7: Patrick Graham on the sideline was a good sign. It
• 46:22
  Speaker 7: was good to see the Steelers respond and win a win. Obviously,
• 46:26
  Speaker 7: we talked about it yesterday. we want to get our
• 46:29
  Speaker 7: edge pressure and get our guys who know how to
• 46:30
  Speaker 7: hunt the quarterback to do a better job at that.
• 46:33
  Speaker 5: And I'm pretty sure he's going.
• 46:33
  Speaker 7: To tweak some of that, especially going against the Buccaneers
• 46:38
  Speaker 7: this Sunday, especially dealing with an undrafted quarterback in Jalen Daniels.
• 46:42
  Speaker 7: So with all that, man, I'm glad Patrick Graham was
• 46:46
  Speaker 7: able to step up and say, hey, man, whatever.
• 46:49
  Speaker 5: Needs to be done, let's get it done.
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: You think there's a better way? Real quick, guys, you
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: think there's a better way up in the booth or
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: on the field?
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: Or you think it depends upon the coach and the
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: team and the culture and whatever it is, other things.
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: It depends on other factors. Let's put it that way.
• 47:05
  Speaker 6: I think it depends on the type of coach it is, right?
• 47:08
  Speaker 6: I think that's what ultimately comes down to it is
• 47:11
  Speaker 6: how does that coach respond and how are the– and
• 47:16
  Speaker 6: also I'll say this, and Willie can correct me if
• 47:18
  Speaker 6: I'm wrong, but how much trust you have in your
• 47:22
  Speaker 6: assistant coaches to deliver your message as well.
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 47:26
  Speaker 6: I think that's the other part that we kind of forget.
• 47:28
  Speaker 6: If the coach can deliver the message, your assistants can
• 47:32
  Speaker 6: disseminate it. Then, yeah, you can take that opportunity and
• 47:35
  Speaker 6: you can be up in the booth area, so to speak.
• 47:41
  Speaker 5: But if you.
• 47:42
  Speaker 6: Have a new group and you got new guys working
• 47:45
  Speaker 6: with you that don't necessarily, you know, vibe or he
• 47:50
  Speaker 6: doesn't have that complete and utter control and they haven't
• 47:52
  Speaker 6: been together as a unit for so long. then, yeah,
• 47:56
  Speaker 6: you need to adjust accordingly in those moments. I think
• 48:00
  Speaker 6: that's where I look at it and I say, okay,
• 48:03
  Speaker 6: the system matters. The system matters for who is in there.
• 48:07
  Speaker 6: And I think for Patrick Graham and his crew, because
• 48:11
  Speaker 6: a lot of it's new pieces, that he probably needs
• 48:14
  Speaker 6: to be there.
• 48:14
  Speaker 5: He needs to be the big man on.
• 48:16
  Speaker 6: Campus, you know, directing the traffic on the field. But
• 48:21
  Speaker 6: if it's a season group, I mean, like, Dick LeBeau
• 48:24
  Speaker 6: was great. And he loved being on the sidelines. But
• 48:26
  Speaker 6: if he wasn't on the sidelines, I think there would
• 48:29
  Speaker 6: be a trust, right? You know, there is an implicit
• 48:31
  Speaker 6: trust with Coach Mitchell and with Coach Butler and, you know,
• 48:37
  Speaker 6: whoever it was, whether it was Coach Lake or whether
• 48:39
  Speaker 6: it was Ray. Like, he had a trust in every
• 48:42
  Speaker 6: position group because they'd been working together for so long.
• 48:45
  Speaker 6: But when you have a newer group, it's a different
• 48:48
  Speaker 6: type of mentality. And I think you have to kind
• 48:50
  Speaker 6: of be on there to be the quote-unquote field general
• 48:53
  Speaker 6: in those moments. and direct guys to know what you
• 48:57
  Speaker 6: want and how you want it.
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: Okay, so we're going to take a break.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: We will get back to this position of suddenly a
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: position of question on the Steelers, right? You go into
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: the season thinking you've got really good depth at a
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: couple different positions, and now five weeks in, you're wondering
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: just where that depth lies. We're going to talk about
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: that when we continue in the locker room here on
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: the Steelers.
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: Audio Network.