Latest / Fulfilled with Rebecca Sheehan / Seeing Jesus Through Jewish Eyes with Rabbi Jason Sobel | Ep. 21

Transcript

Seeing Jesus Through Jewish Eyes with Rabbi Jason Sobel | Ep. 21 · Fulfilled with Rebecca Sheehan

• 0:09
  hey everybody welcome to fulfilled i'm your host rebecca
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  sheehan i am so excited
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  for today's episode we are welcoming rabbi jason sobel he is a
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  messianic jewish
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  teacher author and biblical consultant for the global hit
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  series the chosen one of
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  SPEAKER_01: my personal favorites
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  Jason helps Christians rediscover the Jewish roots of their
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  faith and see scripture
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  SPEAKER_01: through the world Jesus actually lived in.
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  SPEAKER_01: We're going to talk about his personal journey to faith in Jesus,
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  SPEAKER_01: what Messianic Judaism really means,
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  and how the Old Testament points forward to Jesus in powerful
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  and often overlooked
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  SPEAKER_01: ways.
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  SPEAKER_01: Rabbi Jason, welcome to the show.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's great to be with you.
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  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
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  SPEAKER_01: I would love to start by talking about how you
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  SPEAKER_01: came to be a rabbi and you believe in Christ and are a rabbi.
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  So can you talk about that a little bit and how you found
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  Christ in the first place?
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: like you,
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  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in the Holy Land,
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  SPEAKER_00: New Jersey,
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  SPEAKER_00: where there are more Jews than in Jerusalem.
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  SPEAKER_00: Went to Hebrew school as a child,
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  SPEAKER_00: had my bar mitzvah,
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  SPEAKER_00: became a son of the commandments,
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  had lost most of my family in the Holocaust of being Jewish and
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  respecting and
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  SPEAKER_00: honoring the heritage was something that was really important to me.
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  SPEAKER_00: I found myself working in a large recording studio in New York City.
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  SPEAKER_00: I was a hip-hop DJ and was trained to be an engineer.
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  And then I looked at the lives of all these famous people
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  around me and I said to
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  SPEAKER_00: myself,
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  SPEAKER_00: there has to be more to life than just this.
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  SPEAKER_00: Began a spiritual journey,
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  SPEAKER_00: started studying with my rabbi,
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  SPEAKER_00: but through martial arts,
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  SPEAKER_00: got into meditation,
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  SPEAKER_00: started studying Eastern philosophy and religion.
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  SPEAKER_00: One day I was meditating, my soul began to vibrate.
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  SPEAKER_00: It literally left my body.
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  SPEAKER_00: The next thing I know,
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  I was standing in heaven and I saw this king lifted up on this
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  throne in glory,
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  SPEAKER_00: felt the power of God pulsate through every cell of my body.
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  SPEAKER_00: I knew nothing about Yeshua,
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  SPEAKER_00: that's Jesus' Hebrew name,
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  SPEAKER_00: but I knew that was him seated on that throne.
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  SPEAKER_00: He told me I was called to serve him.
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  SPEAKER_00: Next thing I know,
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  SPEAKER_00: I was back down in my body,
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  SPEAKER_00: shaking under the power of heaven,
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  SPEAKER_00: still in the state of euphoria.
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  SPEAKER_00: I understood that he was real,
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  SPEAKER_00: but I had no idea what it meant to believe in Jesus or follow him.
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  SPEAKER_00: My best friend came to faith.
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  He said,
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  Jason,
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  can you tell the difference between the Old and the New
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  Testament?
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  SPEAKER_00: You went to Hebrew school.
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  SPEAKER_00: I said, sure.
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  SPEAKER_00: He read me this passage.
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  He was bruised for our transgressions,
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  crushed for our iniquities,
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  by his stripes were healed.
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  SPEAKER_00: I said, that must be the New Testament.
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  SPEAKER_00: He said,
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  SPEAKER_00: no,
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  SPEAKER_00: that's Isaiah 53,
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  SPEAKER_00: the Hebrew prophet,
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  SPEAKER_00: 700 years before Jesus,
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeshua ever walked the face of the earth.
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  SPEAKER_00: He began to provoke me to jealousy.
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  I went to this messianic congregation where Jewish people
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  worship Jesus in a Jewish way.
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  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the service, they prayed this prayer and I prayed.
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  SPEAKER_00: And they said, if you prayed this prayer, please raise your hand.
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  SPEAKER_00: I raised my hand.
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  SPEAKER_00: They said, you've just been born again.
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  SPEAKER_00: I had no idea what it meant to be born again.
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  SPEAKER_00: Jews don't get born again.
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  SPEAKER_00: Gave my mother enough trouble and I was born once.
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  SPEAKER_00: I thought no one was looking, no one would see it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I realized they said, unless you stand up,
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  SPEAKER_00: You won't be able to stand for the Lord in the world.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I realized we weren't going anywhere until I got up.
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  They gave me the first New Testament,
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  took it home,
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  read it,
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  was blown away how Jewish it was.
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  Jesus celebrated all the holidays,
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  all the Old Testament prophecies,
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  gave my life to him.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it was a supernatural transformation from that point forward.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's such an incredible story.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds a lot like mine in a way, growing up Jewish in New Jersey.
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  SPEAKER_01: And are there really more Jews in New Jersey than in Jerusalem?
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  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of Jews in the New York, New Jersey area.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's what the largest community is.
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  SPEAKER_00: Not more than Israel, but more than in Jerusalem.
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  But yeah,
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  I mean,
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  my Jewish heritage was a big part of my growing up as well.
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  SPEAKER_01: And same thing with relatives dying in the Holocaust.
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  I'm just curious,
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  how did your family react when you told them you were going to
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  follow Jesus?
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, did they see it as a...
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  SPEAKER_01: as a betrayal of who you are and what you were raised with?
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  SPEAKER_01: Or did they understand at all?
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  SPEAKER_00: Parents are very concerned, especially my mom.
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  SPEAKER_00: She's like, go meet with the rabbi.
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  SPEAKER_00: You've joined a cult.
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  SPEAKER_00: We're Jews.
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  SPEAKER_00: We don't believe in Jesus.
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  SPEAKER_00: But as my parents saw, my faith in Messiah didn't make me less Jewish.
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  SPEAKER_00: It actually made me more Jewish.
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  SPEAKER_00: Because all the things that I had done as a child,
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  SPEAKER_00: like the Jewish holidays,
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  SPEAKER_00: like the reading of the Torah,
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  SPEAKER_00: the Jewish prayers,
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  SPEAKER_00: all these things I realized all pointed to Jesus.
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  SPEAKER_00: They were all connected.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so they took on new spiritual significance for me.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so as my parents saw that, you know, they became supportive.
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  SPEAKER_01: As you're talking about how it makes you feel more Jewish,
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  SPEAKER_01: I just started going through the Jewish holidays,
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  SPEAKER_01: each one,
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  SPEAKER_01: one by one,
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  SPEAKER_01: and sort of how you can celebrate through a Christian perspective.
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  SPEAKER_01: For example, learning about Tuba Shvat last week.
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  I don't think I ever cared about Tuba Shvat,
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  the new year of the trees when I was raised Jewish.
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  But here I started connecting Tuba Shvat to all these tree
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  parables in the New Testament.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was just such a gift.
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  SPEAKER_00: So good.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: there's such,
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  SPEAKER_00: look,
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  SPEAKER_00: every major event in the life of Yeshua,
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  SPEAKER_00: Jesus happened on a Jewish holiday.
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  SPEAKER_00: He died as the Passover lamb.
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  SPEAKER_00: He rose from the dead on a biblical holiday of first fruits,
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  SPEAKER_00: because if you had a good first fruits,
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  SPEAKER_00: it was a guarantee of a later greater harvest.
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  SPEAKER_00: The apostle and rabbi Paul calls him the first fruits from the dead.
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  SPEAKER_00: So because he rose is the guarantee we're going to rise.
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  And he poured out the Ruach HaKodesh,
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  the Holy Spirit,
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  on Pentecost,
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  which in Hebrew is Shavuot.
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  So the same day the Ten Commandments were given at Mount Sinai
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  is the same day
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  SPEAKER_00: that the Holy Spirit is given, word and spirit on the exact same day.
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  SPEAKER_00: Why?
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  Because just like creation came about by the Spirit of God
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  hovering over the face
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  SPEAKER_00: of the deep and God speaking,
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  SPEAKER_00: Genesis 1,
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  SPEAKER_00: new creation comes about by word and spirit as well.
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  SPEAKER_00: So,
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  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: so there's all these deep connections and parallels,
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  and I don't think you can really see the New Testament or the
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  life of Jesus in high
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  SPEAKER_00: definition
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  SPEAKER_00: If you cannot connect or don't connect the old and the new.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love how you do that.
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  SPEAKER_01: I've listened to a bunch of your podcasts now.
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  SPEAKER_01: I know you have a book on it as well.
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  SPEAKER_01: Just all of these connections.
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  So how did you become a rabbi and what makes you a rabbi and
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  not a pastor?
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I came to faith,
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  SPEAKER_00: went to a Messianic Jewish Studies program,
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  and then ultimately went and studied in a traditional yeshiva
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  for a time in
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  SPEAKER_00: Jerusalem,
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  SPEAKER_00: Orthodox yeshiva.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm an ordained Messianic rabbi.
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  SPEAKER_00: So what makes a rabbi different in a sense from a pastor is a few things.
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  SPEAKER_00: One is
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  You have to have expertise in understanding Hebrew and
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  understanding the Torah,
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  SPEAKER_00: the holidays,
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  different aspects of Jewish life and Jewish ritual and Jewish
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  law and how those
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  SPEAKER_00: things apply to us as individuals.
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  SPEAKER_00: Obviously,
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  as the Messianic Jews is different than how it was applied in a
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  lot of traditional
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  SPEAKER_00: Jewish communities.
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  But the rhythm of life centered around the weekly Torah reading
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  and the celebration
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  of the Jewish holidays and making sure we maintain that
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  heritage because that is
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  SPEAKER_00: part of the covenantal calling and mission to Israel.
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  and then helping all believers understand that there's not an
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  obligation for
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  SPEAKER_00: Christians to celebrate the,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: Jewish holidays and things like that,
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  SPEAKER_00: but there's an invitation
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  to embrace them because I think,
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  you know,
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  Yeshua,
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  Jesus,
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  and the apostles were all Jewish.
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  SPEAKER_00: They all did these things.
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  SPEAKER_00: And Jesus said,
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  what can a scribe who understands the kingdom of God be
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  compared to like an owner
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  SPEAKER_00: of a house who brings forth treasures new and old.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I think so many people settle for half an inheritance.
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  SPEAKER_00: Many Christians settle for the new and they don't understand the old.
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  SPEAKER_00: Many Jews embrace the old and have no understanding of the new,
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  SPEAKER_00: but the full inheritance is the old and the new coming together.
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  So what exactly is the difference between Messianic Judaism and
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  Christianity?
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  SPEAKER_01: And do you consider yourself both?
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  SPEAKER_00: So really,
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  SPEAKER_00: Messianic Jews,
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  SPEAKER_00: to one degree or another,
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  are trying to live out their faith in the same way that Jesus
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  and the first
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  SPEAKER_00: disciples and apostles did,
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  SPEAKER_00: which is in that Jewish context.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's two reasons for that.
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  SPEAKER_00: One is,
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  SPEAKER_00: The covenant that God made with Israel never stopped.
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  There is a mission and a calling to the Jewish people to be a
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  light to the nations,
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  SPEAKER_00: as well as a light to our people Israel.
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  And I think a key way of doing that is by expressing my faith
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  in a way that honors
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  SPEAKER_00: that history and heritage,
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  SPEAKER_00: just like Jesus and the disciples did.
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  Because before the disciples ever knew Jesus as redeemer,
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  they followed him as rabbi.
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  I love that Messianic Judaism keeps that culture alive,
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  that rich heritage.
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  I have to read to you what someone commented on one of my posts
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  yesterday.
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  SPEAKER_01: This is a Messianic Christian,
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  which is a sect of Christianity that steals Jews away from
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  Judaism through
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  SPEAKER_01: cult-like conversion techniques.
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  SPEAKER_01: This is what cultural genocide looks like.
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  How would you correct that misconception that believing in
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  Christ means that Jews
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  SPEAKER_01: have to give up everything that makes them uniquely Jewish?
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's absolutely not true.
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  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately,
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  SPEAKER_00: from very early on,
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  SPEAKER_00: like the fourth century,
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  there was an intentional stripping of the Jewish roots by parts
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  of the historic
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  SPEAKER_00: church,
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  SPEAKER_00: by parts of the Catholic and Orthodox church,
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  and then a persecution of the Jewish people as well throughout
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  church history.
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  SPEAKER_00: And because of that, Jesus became unrecognizable to the Jewish people.
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  SPEAKER_00: And,
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  SPEAKER_00: again,
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  SPEAKER_00: if you look at many pictures of Jesus,
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  SPEAKER_00: famous pictures,
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  SPEAKER_00: he's got blonde hair and blue eyes,
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  SPEAKER_00: and I assure you,
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  SPEAKER_00: he did not have blonde hair and blue eyes,
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  SPEAKER_00: right?
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  He was Middle Eastern,
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  he was Mediterranean,
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  you know,
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  probably olive complexion.
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  SPEAKER_00: But just besides the physical characteristics, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: We have to understand that as well,
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  SPEAKER_00: that over time,
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  SPEAKER_00: actually,
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  SPEAKER_00: Christians told Jews that when they did come to faith,
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  they couldn't maintain that connection to their Jewish history
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  and heritage.
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  SPEAKER_00: And they were called Judaizers.
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  And then they were persecuted if they try and do that or told
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  they couldn't.
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  And so,
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  therefore,
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  historically,
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  there was a time when Jews who believed in Jesus lost faith.
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  oftentimes their connection to their people and to their
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  culture but that is 100
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  not true today and the two were never meant to be separated the
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  fullness is of
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  bringing the two together and again jesus made me more jewish
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  than i was before and
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  jesus comes to make better jews not worse ones because he's the
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  messiah of israel
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  SPEAKER_00: But I think the reality is,
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  SPEAKER_00: too,
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  SPEAKER_00: is that if the Jewish community really wants to be honest,
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  SPEAKER_00: the majority of Jewish people aren't interested in Judaism.
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  SPEAKER_00: They're pretty assimilated,
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  SPEAKER_00: pretty secular,
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  don't have a deep understanding of Judaism and not really that
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  interested in it.
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  They're more culturally Jewish or ethnically Jewish than they
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  are religiously Jewish.
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  SPEAKER_00: So let's be honest.
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  SPEAKER_00: And call it what it is.
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  SPEAKER_00: Many Jews have that issue.
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  SPEAKER_00: So you can't stop being Jewish when you believe in Yeshua.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I think Yeshua,
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  Jesus would want Jewish believers to express their faith in a
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  way that honors their
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  SPEAKER_00: ancestors.
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  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
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  SPEAKER_01: So today is Friday as we're filming this.
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  SPEAKER_01: Do you celebrate Shabbat in a traditional Jewish way, sundown to sundown?
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  SPEAKER_01: Or is Sunday your Sabbath?
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  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_00: Well,
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, most Friday nights we'll be having a Shabbat dinner.
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  And so we'll be doing a traditional Shabbat dinner with friends
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  tonight,
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  some family.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
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  And do you celebrate all of the Jewish holidays or the major
• 13:05
  ones and like,
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  how do you do it?
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  Do you add an element of Christianity and you bring Jesus into
• 13:11
  it,
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  I assume?
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  Yeah,
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  of course,
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  because the rabbis say everything was written for the sake of
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  the Messiah.
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  SPEAKER_00: So everything in Jewish life connects to the Messiah in some way.
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  SPEAKER_00: So like, for example, as you mentioned, I'm part of the chosen and I'm.
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  SPEAKER_00: participating in the Chosen Khan big event.
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  SPEAKER_00: And,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  I'm doing the Last Supper Seder experience there because the
• 13:39
  Last Supper was a
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  SPEAKER_00: Passover Seder.
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  SPEAKER_00: You can't understand the Last Supper if you don't understand Passover.
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  SPEAKER_00: So the four cups of the Passover that it's centered around and...
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  SPEAKER_00: Why does Jesus raise the third cup and say, this is the blood?
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  SPEAKER_00: And the third cup is the cup of redemption.
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  There was three sprinklings of the blood on the doorposts of
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  the houses of Egypt.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the blood actually formed the picture of a cross.
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  SPEAKER_00: What is the bread that he's breaking?
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  SPEAKER_00: And how does it symbolically point to him?
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  SPEAKER_00: Like,
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  SPEAKER_00: Matzah, the unleavened bread, is pierced.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's striped.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's bruised.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's broken.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's Isaiah 53.
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  SPEAKER_00: There's something called a matzah tash or a matzah bag.
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  SPEAKER_00: It has three pieces of matzah.
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  SPEAKER_00: You take the middle piece of matzah.
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  SPEAKER_00: You break it into uneven halves.
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  SPEAKER_00: You take the bigger piece of matzah.
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  SPEAKER_00: You bury it.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's known as the afikomen.
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  SPEAKER_00: And you bring it back at the end.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it's the last thing you eat.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it's broken again.
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  SPEAKER_00: buried, brought back at the end.
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  Afikomen is a Greek word that means he came or he is coming,
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  depending how you translate it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that bread is the last physical thing you eat.
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  SPEAKER_00: Why?
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  SPEAKER_00: Because today it replaces the last thing in ancient times,
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  SPEAKER_00: the days of Jesus,
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  SPEAKER_00: when the temple stood was the
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  Passover lamb was the last thing you ate,
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  so the taste of redemption should be on your lips.
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  Now the last thing we eat is the afikomen,
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  which again points to the Messiah.
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  SPEAKER_01: I would love to get into Passover a little bit more.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's coming up soon.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's always been my favorite Jewish holiday to celebrate,
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: but even more so now through the perspective of Christ.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned a couple of them just now, but
• 15:22
  What are your favorite mind-blowing connections to Christ that
• 15:25
  most people aren't aware of?
• 15:27
  There are just so many,
• 15:29
  but his whole ministry is centered around the Passover.
• 15:32
  So he begins his ministry and the first miracle he does is the
• 15:38
  water into wine.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it happens around Passover.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that significant?
• 15:43
  Because the Torah tells us that the Messiah was going to be a
• 15:46
  prophet like Moses,
• 15:47
  only greater.
• 15:49
  So the first miracle Moses does when he comes to redeem the
• 15:52
  children of Israel out
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: of Egypt,
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: he turns the water into blood.
• 15:55
  One of the things the New Testament is trying to show is that
• 15:58
  Jesus doesn't come to
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: bring death.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: He comes to bring life that we might have it more abundantly.
• 16:02
  So he transforms the water not into blood,
• 16:06
  but he turns the water into wine.
• 16:08
  And it even says in the Exodus account that even the water in
• 16:12
  their pots turned to blood.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: And here Jesus' six stone pots filled them to the brim, water into wine.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's showing he's greater than Moses.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Then you have the very next thing he does in John,
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: you see him cleansing the temple of the money changers.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: John has it at the beginning,
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Matthew and the other gospels have it at the end,
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: after the triumphal entry into Jerusalem.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 16:37
  Because every Jewish child has a responsibility to help their
• 16:41
  parent cleanse the
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: house of the leaven.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: There can be no leaven found in the homes during Passover.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Leaven is a symbol of sin.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's spiritually symbolic of removing the sin,
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: the negative influences,
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: the ungodly things from our life.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: So the temple was his father's house.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So he was in his father's house,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: cleaning the house for Passover,
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: just like every good Jewish child does with their parent.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: He's removing the leaven.
• 17:11
  And,
• 17:11
  you know,
• 17:11
  he comes in on Sunday in the triumphal entry on riding the
• 17:15
  donkey.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, why does he come in on that Sunday?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: We know it is Palm Sunday.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: because the Passovers were set apart for days
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: before they were offered.
• 17:26
  And so Jesus comes into Jerusalem four days approximately
• 17:31
  before he's offered
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: because he's the Passover lamb.
• 17:34
  And then the Passover has to be inspected to make sure it's
• 17:37
  without spot or blemish.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: All the questioning of him, his trials, they're inspecting him.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: They find him not fit, but he actually was fit.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: He's crucified at the same time the Passover lambs are offered.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a lot, so many different things.
• 17:52
  And the fact that I came to this realization recently that
• 17:55
  because the Jewish days
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: are sundown to sundown,
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: he was actually crucified on the day of Passover,
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: not just the night before.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: I heard you talk about once how the birth of Jesus,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: like Bethlehem,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: is that where the sacrificial lambs are raised?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:13
  So Jesus is born in Bethlehem,
• 18:16
  which means the house of bread,
• 18:18
  because he is the bread of life.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: At the Passover, he breaks the bread.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is my body, which is broken for you.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: But Bethlehem was the place where they raised the Passover lambs.
• 18:28
  So Jesus is born in the place where the Passover lambs are born
• 18:32
  and recognized by the shepherds.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And they weren't ordinary shepherds.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: They were Levitical shepherds.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: They were the shepherds raising
• 18:39
  the sacrifices for the Passover,
• 18:41
  and they recognize him as the Passover lamb.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's just so many details, so many details, every part of his life.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's absolutely incredible.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Him rising from the dead on a Jewish holiday of first fruits.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: The Holy Spirit was given on a Jewish holiday.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: It never ends.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's all these, like, why does Jesus have to die on a cross?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: How did sin enter the world?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: The first man and woman took from the tree.
• 19:07
  So God put Jesus back on the tree for you and me to undo the
• 19:11
  sin of the first man and woman.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: His hands are pierced.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because our hands took from the tree.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: His side is pierced.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because Eve, the one taken from the side, led him into temptation.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: She's making a redemption not only for Adam, but for Eve.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: His feet are pierced.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because the first Messianic prophecy,
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Genesis 3.15,
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: the seed of the woman would crush the head of the serpent.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Crown of thorns on his head.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: What's the curse of creation?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: The ground would produce thorns and thistles.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: He's taken the curse of creation on his head to break it and reverse it.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Three hours of darkness.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Ninth plague, three days of darkness.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Tenth plague, death of the firstborn.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's God's firstborn giving his life on that tree.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: So just like when we apply the blood by faith,
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Judgment passes over us just like it passed over in Egypt.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Did you come to most of these conclusions and connections yourself,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: or are these out there elsewhere?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, some are out there.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's just really thinking about the connections, right?
• 20:14
  So I think when we read the Bible,
• 20:17
  we have to read it as a detective,
• 20:20
  right?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to say,
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: if there's three hours of darkness,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: where in the Bible does it talk about three and darkness?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's the ninth plague on Egypt, right?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Three days of darkness, three hours of darkness.
• 20:34
  He dies at the time of the Passover lamb,
• 20:36
  10th plague,
• 20:37
  Passover lamb,
• 20:38
  firstborn.
• 20:39
  Or like,
• 20:40
  again,
• 20:40
  it ties back to the first miracle,
• 20:43
  the water into wine,
• 20:44
  just like Moses did.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, like, as I read this,
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: The Old Testament,
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: as I read through the five books of Moses,
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always asking the question,
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: how does this point to Messiah?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: How does this connect?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then look to make those connections.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, the Holy Spirit illuminates and helps make those connections.
• 21:04
  What do you think God's purpose was in creating all of these
• 21:09
  connections for us,
• 21:09
  these breadcrumbs to follow between the Old Testament and the
• 21:12
  New Testament?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think there's several.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Look,
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: one of the reasons why I wrote this book,
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Transformed by the Messiah,
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: our new book that goes into all this,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: is because it's meant to give us hope.
• 21:28
  Because hope is believing that your future is going to be
• 21:31
  better than your past.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: But hope is rooted in the understanding that God is in control.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: So when you see how God is so...
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: intimately and intricately involved in all of the details of scriptures,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: what it says is God is that involved in your life,
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 21:50
  Just like he's in all these connections and just like there's
• 21:53
  nothing random,
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: there is nothing random about our life.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there's still something else, which is this.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's a verse that's really been impressed upon me in this season.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: It says this, right, in Proverbs.
• 22:08
  It's the glory of God to conceal a matter,
• 22:11
  and it's the glory of the king to search it out.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so what does that mean?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: God conceals, but why does God conceal?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And who are the kings?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, think about it for a moment.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a rabbi who...
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: whose grandson came to him crying and he said, what happened?
• 22:34
  He goes,
• 22:34
  I was playing hide and seek with my friends and no one came to
• 22:38
  seek me.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the rabbi began to cry.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: He says, now I understand sometimes God hides so that we seek him.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think the point there is the glory of God to conceal.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's not because God wants to hide from us.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's because God wants us to go deeper.
• 22:58
  The kings there are everyone who believes are sons and
• 23:02
  daughters of the kings.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a position.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's a royal identity that we have now.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: in the Lord.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:11
  And so part of that royal privilege is to go deeper because if
• 23:16
  you search deeper in
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: the scriptures,
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: it makes you deeper.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's part of the transformation of your mind.
• 23:24
  So the word there to seek is actually the word that's used of
• 23:28
  archaeological
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: excavations because there's layers and layers and layers of meaning.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: The more you dig, the more you uncover, the more treasure that you find.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what God is asking us to do,
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: to dig deeper,
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: to find these things because it changes and transforms us.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it says in the book of Acts,
• 23:49
  And the Bereans were more noble because they searched the
• 23:52
  scriptures to see if
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: these things were true.
• 23:55
  So nobility,
• 23:56
  they're called like royalty because they search the scriptures.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what that does in our life.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: It brings out our royal identity and transforms us.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: How can we read the Bible like you do?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have set plans that you go through?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: so I think people are all into Bible reading programs,
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: but there is an original Bible reading program,
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: and it's the one Jesus and the disciples followed.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the one where you read through the weekly five books of Moses,
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: and you read through the prophets,
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: and they're designed to be connected.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, you connect it to the New Testament as well.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: We actually have a weekly commentary that we put out,
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: a study guide called the Torah Portion Guide.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's free that we send out to lots of people.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that as you learn, you begin to look for God in the details.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: The details begin to matter.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then you begin to think through and make those connections.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: the first time I read the Bible all the way through,
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was so excited to get to the finish and accomplish it.
• 25:05
  But as I was nearing the end,
• 25:06
  that's when I realized,
• 25:07
  oh,
• 25:07
  this is just the beginning.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it is such a gift to be able to go through over and over again.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: So...
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like to say the Bible is like the ocean.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's shallow enough that a child can wade in it and enjoy it.
• 25:22
  And it's so deep that even the most experienced diver cannot
• 25:27
  explore the depths of it,
• 25:28
  right?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: We know less about the ocean floor than we do about the moon.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about The Chosen.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love this show so much.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's been watched by
• 25:42
  An estimated 280 million people around the world filming the
• 25:48
  sixth season now,
• 25:49
  right?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious how you got involved in it.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a worldwide phenomenon.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just a God thing.
• 25:57
  I was involved with The Chosen before it had a name,
• 25:59
  when it was just an idea.
• 26:00
  And Dallas had this idea to make this multi-season series on
• 26:08
  the life of Jesus.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: And he wanted two things to be unique about it.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: He wanted to tell the story of Jesus,
• 26:14
  but he also wanted to tell it from the perspective of the
• 26:17
  disciples who interacted
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: with him and how people were transformed by encountering him.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: He wanted to humanize Jesus and make him not some sort of ethereal,
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: otherworldly individual,
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: but as in part of that,
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: he wanted to really bring out the historic Jewish Jesus.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I was the original spiritual advisor on it, took Dallas to Israel.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: He had never been before.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 26:44
  and filmed all the initial crowdfunding videos and little
• 26:47
  teaching videos that went
• 26:48
  viral to help get the season one funded and have been involved
• 26:54
  ever since.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now there's others that are included.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we just filmed the season six round table.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I just binge watched season six, the rough cut, which is incredible.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be an incredibly moving season.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: People are going to love it.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: So powerful.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: So in terms of your particular role,
• 27:12
  do you just make sure everything is accurate or like what
• 27:16
  exactly did you do?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, so yeah.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we, you know, again,
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: A number of different things.
• 27:23
  So whether it's reading all the scripts and making sure
• 27:26
  biblical accuracy,
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: making sure Jewishly,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: how does that come together and is it accurate?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 27:35
  we've had discussions and there's things that Chosen hasn't
• 27:38
  done or has done
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: because of input that we've given or whether it's like,
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: for example,
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: there are a few Jewish cast members like Peter is Israeli.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: but the majority of the cast members are not Jewish.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Many of them have never, never even did a Jewish holiday.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: So like Jesus, who's played by Jonathan Rumi is a friend of mine.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, he would come to us to learn all the holidays.
• 28:06
  Like he would come to our house for Passover and celebrate with
• 28:10
  us or Rosh
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Hashanah,
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: the new Jewish new year or different holidays.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so Jonathan came to his first Passover and
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: And my son turns and says,
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: dad,
• 28:19
  it's really weird that Jesus is seated at the table and you're
• 28:23
  leading the
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Passover.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: or before they filmed season five and they did the whole Last Supper,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: kind of things that I do,
• 28:33
  like I flew to Dallas and went to the Midlothian set and I did
• 28:39
  a Last Supper,
• 28:40
  did the Passover with the cast and walked them through the
• 28:44
  Passover and explained
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: everything and we had them experience it.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, so they could have the feel of what was authentic.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: What is a Passover Seder?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: What is it like?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then they could add that into the show.
• 29:00
  So if you're walking down the street with Jonathan Rumi,
• 29:03
  what kind of reactions do you get?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's Jesus.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: It depends where you're at.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: I live in Los Angeles and he used to live here and now he lives,
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: doesn't live here,
• 29:15
  but definitely more in other places or a chosen con when we're
• 29:20
  together or
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: whatever.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Have any of the actors come to faith in Christ?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: through the show, to your knowledge?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 29:28
  I think there's definitely some that have or definitely have
• 29:31
  been drawn closer or
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: deepened their faith as a result.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 29:36
  And there's many Jewish people that have come to faith as a
• 29:39
  result of watching The Chosen.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's just incredible, incredible testimonies.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is there one that's particularly memorable?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh,
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: man,
• 29:51
  there's a guy that I know who grew up in a believing home and
• 29:58
  walked away from it,
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: watched The Chosen and came back through it.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's actually someone who has just begun to become part of art.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: ministry that,
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: grew up in a Jewish family and served in the military,
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: went through a tragedy and through watching the chosen,
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: came to faith and now just a strong follower of Messiah.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: So there's just a lot of amazing testimonies like that.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people in Israel watching it in Hebrew.
• 30:32
  And that's just incredible to see Dallas oftentimes sends me
• 30:35
  these testimonies.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, did you see this one?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I got to tell you about this one.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:40
  Dallas said to me the other day when I saw him,
• 30:42
  he goes,
• 30:42
  Jason,
• 30:43
  you should be so happy.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: We're making the church more Jewy.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're bringing the Jewish.
• 30:50
  There's so many Christians getting excited about the Jewishness
• 30:55
  of the roots of
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: their faith as a result of the chosen,
• 30:58
  which is important because we're at a time where the hatred
• 31:01
  towards Israel and the
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Jewish people are rising more than ever.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we need something to help counterbalance that.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: So speaking of Israel and sort of the Jewish part of Christianity,
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: do you do like tours and trips in Israel?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: We do.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: We do.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: We do at least one, if not two a year to Israel.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going back this spring, end of April.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: And look, there's nothing like walking in Israel.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: I got to tell you,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: if you want to transform your faith,
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: if you want to go deeper,
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: if you want to have a life transforming experience,
• 31:40
  Nothing like it to walk where Jesus and the disciples walked
• 31:45
  and to connect the old
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: and the new.
• 31:46
  And then we're taking some people from the chosen who are
• 31:49
  actually part of the
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: chosen team this summer as well.
• 31:54
  There are some Christians who read the New Testament and
• 31:59
  conclude that the church
• 32:00
  replaces Israel and that the land and people of Israel are no
• 32:04
  longer uniquely
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: significant or relevant.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to those people?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd say there's nothing more unbiblical and wrong.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think it grieves the heart of God.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'll share a couple of things.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Number one is that when Jesus came, he was born into a Jewish family.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: He is from the tribe of Judah, from the line of David, the root of Jesse.
• 32:32
  So the incarnation,
• 32:34
  the fact that Jesus came as a Jewish person and is king of the
• 32:37
  Jews,
• 32:40
  is an intensification of God's commitment in covenant with
• 32:43
  Israel and the Jewish
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: people,
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: not a negation of it.
• 32:48
  In the book of Romans,
• 32:51
  people think,
• 32:51
  oh,
• 32:51
  why does Paul talk about Israel,
• 32:53
  Romans 9,
• 32:54
  10,
• 32:54
  and 11?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because we've got to understand,
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: he begins by saying,
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Jew and Gentile all sin and fall short of the glory of God.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Then he talks about God's solution.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: By faith, we are justified and made righteous.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: Then we're sanctified, conformed to Jesus's image and likeliness.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: And one day we will be glorified.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: But then the question is, what about the Jewish people?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: If God had a covenant with Israel and they failed,
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: and God threw them away, could God throw the church away?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Could God throw us away as individuals when we fail and mess up?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so Romans 9 is Israel's past riches.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Theirs is the temple, the covenant, the scriptures.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Romans chapter 10 is their current predicament,
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: that they have a zeal but not according to knowledge,
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: that
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Many don't believe that he is the Messiah.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: But Romans chapter 11 is,
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: but Paul says there's a remnant who believes,
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: like in the days of Elijah.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Elijah thought he was the only one.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: 7,000 hadn't bowed their knee to Baal.
• 33:57
  And Paul says,
• 33:58
  I myself am a believer and was a persecutor of the believers.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if God was done with the Jewish people,
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: why would he chose the Hebrew of Hebrews,
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: a persecutor of the faith,
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: to believe from the tribe of Benjamin?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then he goes on to say...
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: all Israel will be saved.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: He says they are enemies for the sake of the gospel,
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: but because of the sake of the patriarchs,
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Abraham,
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Isaac,
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: and Jacob,
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: who God made an eternal,
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: unconditional covenant with,
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: they are beloved.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so the good news is because God hasn't rejected Israel,
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: he will not reject you when you mess up.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't mean Jewish people who don't believe are saved.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what we're saying.
• 34:38
  But there is a corporate promise to Israel that God will keep
• 34:41
  his promises.
• 34:42
  Because if God doesn't keep his promises that he made in the
• 34:45
  Old Testament,
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: under the covenant to the patriarchs,
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: there's no reason why you can believe he can keep his promises to you.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: You talk a lot about different prophecies.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to get into some of that.
• 34:58
  Why do you think believers in every single generation think
• 35:00
  that Jesus' second
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: coming will be in their lifetime?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think on the one hand,
• 35:08
  there is a sense in which we're called to live with a sense of
• 35:13
  expectation,
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 35:15
  Part of what Jesus teaches at the end of Matthew is he talks
• 35:19
  about watching and
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: waiting,
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: don't be caught sleeping.
• 35:23
  So there's a good part of like expecting,
• 35:26
  desiring,
• 35:27
  hoping for,
• 35:28
  watching for the Messiah.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's a
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Not good part where if you get too deep into trying to speculate,
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 35:38
  this person's the Antichrist or like if you stop living your
• 35:42
  life or trying to
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: impact the world because you think it's going to end,
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: that's foolish.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: But we need to live in light of the second coming.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: And clearly what we're seeing in the world today,
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: the rebirth of the modern state of Israel,
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: which is a fulfillment of prophecy,
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Ezekiel 37.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: how there is the regathering of Jewish people to the land,
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: more Jews in Israel than anywhere else in the world.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: This is prophecy being fulfilled.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Rise of anti-Semitism,
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: what we see going on in governments around the world,
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: and rise of AI and all these things.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: It clearly shows how we're heading in a direction.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: When that time is, we can't know.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Can you unpack that a little bit more?
• 36:33
  Just some of those examples of what we're seeing today and what
• 36:37
  they correspond to.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's really interesting.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, again, just kind of a timeline.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: The birth pains of the Messiah is how it's understood in the Bible,
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: as Jesus says,
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: describes it as,
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 36:52
  The closer you get to his coming,
• 36:54
  just like a woman in labor,
• 36:56
  the contractions intensify.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: So in the past,
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: kind of what's known as there's been Braxton Hicks,
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: kind of the false labor contractions.
• 37:03
  You think they're the actual contractions,
• 37:05
  but they're actually not the actual contractions.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we've seen that throughout history where it's kind of seemed like,
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: this could be the contractions,
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: but they're actually the Braxton Hicks or false contractions.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: precursors, harbingers,
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: But because Israel had to be back in the land.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Ezekiel 37 talks about God will gather Israel.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: They'll be back in their land.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's the prophecy of the dry bones.
• 37:27
  A great army will rise to its feet and God will breathe the
• 37:32
  breath of life into them.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is the rebirth of the modern state of Israel.
• 37:36
  The bones coming back together,
• 37:37
  but it doesn't have breath,
• 37:38
  meaning they're not saved.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's not salvation.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: The breath is spiritual regeneration, the coming of the Holy Spirit.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: So stage one has been fulfilled of that, but not stage two.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we see Jews being gathered from around the world.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is clearly a setup for end times and the coming of the Messiah,
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: because Jesus says he will not return until Israel says,
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Baruch haba b'shem Adonai,
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: blessed be he who comes in the name of the Lord.
• 38:01
  So Jews have to be in the land because his feet are coming to
• 38:05
  stand on the Mount of
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Olives where he ascended to heaven.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: His feet will descend again.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: So God has been bringing Jewish people back.
• 38:13
  He's been using anti-Semitism in the world to drive Jewish
• 38:17
  people back to the land
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: so that they're there when that time comes.
• 38:22
  He says also,
• 38:24
  as it was in the days of Noah,
• 38:25
  so will it be in the days of the Son of Man.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Why does God destroy the world in the days of Noah?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because it says there was violence on the earth.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what's the Hebrew word for violence?
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's the word Hamas.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: In Genesis chapter 6.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the word is Hamas.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: God destroyed the world because of Hamas.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Genesis chapter 6, days of Noah.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus says, days of Noah.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's this organization, Hamas, that is now in the land.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: They're the ones who committed October 7th,
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: the greatest killing of Jews,
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: murder of Jews since the Holocaust.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is no coincidence.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: Days of Noah, Hamas, and Hamas again today.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: Everything he's ever going to do,
• 39:05
  he's always given us a sneak preview in the past of a pattern
• 39:10
  or a paradigm that we
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: can learn from.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's why Jesus is the Passover.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: You want to know about redemption?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Look at the first Passover.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: It tells you how God works for the second.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or just even as it was in the days of Noah, God saves a remnant.
• 39:28
  There is going to be a remnant that is not going to fall away
• 39:32
  in the end of days.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, there's all these connections.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, artificial intelligence.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Ezekiel talks about the War of Gog and Magog,
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: how these nations would come from the north and attack Israel.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: And one of those nations is Persia, which is modern-day Iran.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: One of the end-times enemies of Israel, according to the Bible, is Iran.
• 39:57
  So the first genocide against the Jewish people almost happened
• 40:01
  in Iran,
• 40:02
  Book of Esther,
• 40:03
  Haman.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're seeing,
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: again today,
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Persia rising,
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: just like biblical prophecy says,
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: wants to destroy again.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's why Israel doesn't want to let them get a nuclear program,
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: because they know that spirit of Haman,
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: spirit of Amalek.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: So what's next?
• 40:22
  And what are the other major markers that we have yet to see on
• 40:26
  this trajectory?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: Look,
• 40:29
  I think the major markers that we're going to see are the world
• 40:35
  continuing to go
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: against Israel and to be anti-Israel.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to even see that increase in the church as we've seen it.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: And there will be a great falling away.
• 40:49
  But we're also going to see a great revival,
• 40:51
  a great move of God as well among segments.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to know God separating the wheat from the tares,
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: those that are really committed to those that are not committed.
• 41:01
  We're going to see Israel in the Middle East go into a time of
• 41:05
  peace and security for a season.
• 41:07
  There's going to be an economic boom in the Middle East and
• 41:13
  especially in Israel.
• 41:16
  And then you're going to see the nations turn and attack Israel
• 41:20
  in a way that we've
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: never seen before.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's all the setup for the end.
• 41:26
  We know there's an individual called the Antichrist who is
• 41:29
  going to create a,
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: I believe,
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: a one world government,
• 41:32
  a one world system that's trying to bring the kingdom of God
• 41:39
  under his authority
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: because everything God has,
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: Satan wants.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so if God's king of the world, he wants to be king of the world.
• 41:48
  It's a reason why there's the Dome of the Rock on the Temple
• 41:51
  Mount where the temple
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: once stood in Jerusalem,
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: because that's the place where Jesus,
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: God says he's going to be worshipped.
• 41:57
  Satan says,
• 41:57
  no,
• 41:57
  I'm going to put my house of worship there and I'm going to be
• 42:00
  worshipped there.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: Forget you, God.
• 42:02
  I'm going to usurp you and I'm going to be worshipped in the
• 42:05
  very place you say
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: you're going to be worshipped.
• 42:08
  So there's going to be this antichrist spirit known as the man
• 42:11
  of lawlessness.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to see chaos and lawlessness increase,
• 42:15
  anarchy increase in the world because the chaos is for the sake
• 42:19
  of an authoritarian
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: figure to come in and bring control to the world.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: So these are just some of the things that we see happening,
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: lawlessness arising,
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: all this sort of stuff,
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: division,
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: fractures,
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: wars,
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: rumors of wars,
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: rise of China,
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: rise of Russia,
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: this alliance between Russia,
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: China,
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Iran.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: These are all things the Bible talks about.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: So why shouldn't we be terrified?
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: We shouldn't be terrified because we know the end.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little scary to think about all this stuff.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know the day or the hour, but the good news is we know who wins.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: We know the end of the story, right?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: So these things are not meant to be scary.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're points of the fact that, A, God spoke about it.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: God knew about it.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's part of his plan.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it means we're closer to Jesus coming.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: What does this relate to your mission every day?
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like what mission do you have that gets you out of bed every day?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: Look, my passion is a few things.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: One is I want to see people encounter the Lord like I did,
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: encounter Yeshua,
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: encounter Jesus,
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: and have their lives transformed like I did,
• 43:35
  because there's nothing greater than knowing Him and having a
• 43:39
  relationship with God
• 43:40
  and experience His presence in your life and know that you have
• 43:43
  the promise that
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: you're going to have everlasting life with God,
• 43:47
  but also the fact that He empowers us by the Spirit to make a
• 43:51
  change in our world
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: today.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: But within that,
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: more specifically,
• 43:56
  it's to help people become disciples and to understand the
• 44:01
  connection to the Jewish
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: roots of faith,
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: to live like Jesus and the apostles did,
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: to read the Bible like they did,
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: to pray like they did,
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: and to experience the full inheritance,
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: which is totally transformative.
• 44:21
  And to help Christians experience that and to help Jewish
• 44:25
  people experience their
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Messiah and get to know him,
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: that's what we live for.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: Just starting to wrap up a little bit,
• 44:34
  I feel like there's a hesitation among Christians to do
• 44:38
  anything Jewish because
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: they fear it drifts into legalism.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like it's faith alone.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have to do anything else to win God's favor.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: which they're right.
• 44:50
  Look,
• 44:50
  the only thing necessary for faith is to believe in Yeshua and
• 44:56
  the good news.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: But we're not talking about that.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about transformation.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about going deeper.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we're talking about how do you enrich your spiritual life?
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: In the same way,
• 45:09
  many people have had their lives enriched by watching The
• 45:12
  Chosen or by singing
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: certain worship songs.
• 45:17
  Or there's many things Christians do that are traditions that
• 45:19
  aren't biblical,
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: like Christmas trees aren't biblical,
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: Easter bunnies aren't biblical.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying there's anything wrong with them,
• 45:27
  but what I'm saying is that there are biblical practices that
• 45:32
  actually Jesus did
• 45:33
  with his disciples that help you understand who he is better
• 45:37
  and tells the story in
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: a way that makes the Bible come alive and engages all of your senses.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like Passover,
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: you're not just talking about it,
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: you're tasting it,
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: you're touching it,
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: you're smelling it,
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: you're singing it.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's powerful to do this with your family and friends.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's a game changer when you do it.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: So again,
• 46:00
  as long as you understand the foundations and you're rooted
• 46:05
  well and you're guided
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: by someone who's a believer and resources that makes those connections,
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: man,
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you're not,
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: it's not that you're doing something wrong.
• 46:16
  It just means there's a richness and inheritance that you're
• 46:21
  missing out on.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: I love how you put that.
• 46:24
  Where can people find your different resources if they want to
• 46:28
  go deeper to help
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: enrich their faith,
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: as you said?
• 46:31
  Yeah,
• 46:31
  fusionglobal.org is our website,
• 46:35
  or rabbijasonsobel.com,
• 46:38
  or anywhere on social media.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's R-A-B-B-I-J-A-S-O-N-S-O-B-E-L.
• 46:43
  Anywhere on YouTube,
• 46:44
  Instagram,
• 46:45
  like us,
• 46:45
  friend us,
• 46:46
  videos,
• 46:47
  all sorts of books,
• 46:48
  Amazon.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you have a Passover Seder guide.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we do.
• 46:53
  Actually,
• 46:54
  I have it right here because I'm getting ready to do it at The
• 46:56
  Chosen.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I put it out to take with me.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: To do The Chosen.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: You can walk through it.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: We've got teaching videos on it.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 47:07
  Well,
• 47:08
  lastly,
• 47:09
  is there one particular Bible verse that you could leave us
• 47:11
  with?
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe a favorite that's guided you throughout your journey?
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the story of Joseph has really impacted my life.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the verses that people know,
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: but that often don't think about,
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: because they don't know the Hebrew,
• 47:27
  is when Joseph turns to his brothers in Genesis 50 at the end
• 47:30
  of the story and
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: says,
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: the brothers are scared,
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: their father has died,
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: is Joseph going to take revenge?
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: Joseph says to his brothers, what you meant for evil, God meant for good.
• 47:43
  And it's kind of the Old Testament version of God works all
• 47:46
  things out together for
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: good,
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: Romans 8.28.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: But the interesting thing is that what you meant,
• 47:52
  the word for meant there is the same Hebrew word that's used of
• 47:57
  the weaver who
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: weaved the clothing for the high priest or the curtains in the temple.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: So the word for meant is the word to weave, right?
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so the image is like there's two hands at the loom of our lives.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: One hand is trying to weave it for bad,
• 48:15
  but then God's hand is redirecting the hand that's on the loom
• 48:19
  and weaving it for
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: good.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so every strand,
• 48:23
  every thread of our life is being purposely woven together to
• 48:28
  create a beautiful
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: story,
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: an amazing tapestry of God's plan for our lives and
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: And oftentimes when you look at a tapestry,
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: if you look at it in process or look at it from the back,
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: it seems like random threads.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: But then when you turn around and you see it from the front,
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: then you can see the beautiful picture that you were intended to see.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes we're in the midst of it.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: We can't see it.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end,
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: like Joseph at the end,
• 48:55
  we understand everything happened for a greater plan to bring
• 49:00
  about a greater
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: purpose.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it was God's hand guiding you.
• 49:05
  Rabbi Jason Sobel,
• 49:06
  thank you so much for this incredibly illuminating
• 49:10
  conversation.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: You truly have a gift of bringing just all these symbols together.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's been a blessing to be with you.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: And thanks to all of you, my awesome listeners, for tuning in today.
• 49:25
  If you enjoyed this episode,
• 49:27
  please rate the show five stars wherever you get your podcasts.
• 49:32
  Stay inspired,
• 49:33
  keep trusting in God's plan for your life,
• 49:36
  and we'll see you next time.