Latest / Cosmic Peach / New Zealand Pedo Cults, Micro-Traumas & Satanic Grandmas

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New Zealand Pedo Cults, Micro-Traumas & Satanic Grandmas · Cosmic Peach

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Baby are my game statue? It takes a little tangle.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: You don't mess with me, mess with.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Me statoo, baby game.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: Statoo for then, this podcast is designed to take you
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: outside of your comfort zone and make you question reality.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Listener discretion is a vibe.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Fellas, this ain't.
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: My first time at the rodeos.
• 0:53
  Speaker 5: Gloria Master is a survivor of some of the most
• 0:55
  Speaker 5: extreme forms of child exploitation and trafficking.
• 1:01
  Speaker 6: So the first rape occurred with my father at the
• 1:04
  Speaker 6: age of four and a half. I also had many
• 1:07
  Speaker 6: forced abortions on me in the age of eleven and
• 1:10
  Speaker 6: a half three to sixteen.
• 1:12
  Speaker 5: It's hard for anyone's mind to really even kind of
• 1:15
  Speaker 5: comprehend something like that happening because it's so horrific.
• 1:19
  Speaker 6: It was this attenant ritual abuse. There were other children,
• 1:30
  Speaker 6: and we were drugged so we would have to line
• 1:32
  Speaker 6: up and then they would abuse children.
• 1:38
  Speaker 5: I cannot imagine what those children went through.
• 1:40
  Speaker 6: It still happens today, and the cover of it is huge.
• 1:47
  Speaker 6: There's just something very demonic and people about it. And
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  Speaker 6: I know people will switch off at this point and
• 1:56
  Speaker 6: think no, no, no.
• 1:59
  Speaker 5: And you mentioned know other people involved that viewers might
• 2:03
  Speaker 5: not think would even engage in this.
• 2:05
  Speaker 6: Sorry to be this graphic. No, but a child can
• 2:08
  Speaker 6: be used and reused in Child six trafficking bigger than
• 2:12
  Speaker 6: being an exponentially on the increase.
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  Speaker 5: And I can't imagine a lifetime of having to go
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: through this.
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, hello, and welcome back to the show.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Got another SRA survivor for us today. She actually reminds
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: me a lot of the what's the Bitch's name from Australia,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Fiona Barnett. She reminds me a lot of her. She's
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: from New Zealand. Got a hell of a story for us.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: There's another one that I want to kind of look into.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: I think her name is Juliet, but.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: She said she saw UFOs and all kinds of stuff
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: on Epstein Island, So I'm definitely gonna be checking that
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: one out. I'll see if it's credible or not, or
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: if it's cosmic, peach worthy or not. Hope you enjoyed
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: the Whitest Kids you Know video Trevor Moore. That one,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: to me, my mind is still reeling a little bit
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: because I just really feel like there is more here
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: than meets the eye, maybe even stuff that I missed,
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: but super interesting Patreon.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed it.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: If you're not on Patreon, now is the time to subscribe.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: That video was awesome, So not to pat myself on
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: the back or anything. Weather's warming up, we're entering into spring.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: A lot of cultures believe that springtime is actually the
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: start of the new year. So with that being said,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: I hope you guys have some fucking goals and shit
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: in mind rolling to the new year with some new
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: expectations for yourselves. Don't have any stories for you today.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Still wondering where Jim Carrey is, if he's still with
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: us at all. I do still see that people are
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: a buzz with the eye color and the facial structure.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: For me, it was even the voice. Everything about him
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: is different. That's not him at all.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Actually, so your thoughts, feelings, opinions.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: I just can't get on board with whatever they're.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Trying to do. They're trying to say that's Jim Carrey,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: that's not Jim Carey.
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: But anyways, a.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Lot to talk about and unpack with today's SRA Survivor.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: So we're just going to jump right into it. And
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: it's like I said before, every SRA survivor has a
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: little bit of a different story. But I don't know
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: if I'm becoming desensitized. But it's like, how many times
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: from how many people do we have to hear this
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: stuff from before people really start realizing that this is
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: the world we live in.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: And it's atrocious.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: We're going to keep at it, though, because it is
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: interesting to me. I do like hearing from different people
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: from different parts of the world saying literally the same stuff.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: And I was talking to Colby a little bit more
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: about the woman with the possible psychotic break and the
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Morgellons and all that he seems to think this is
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: his opinion that Teal Swan is more credible than even
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: the woman with the Morgallons. I think the woman with
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: the Morgellans got a real mind fuck. They probably implanted
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: like some false memories and stuff into her mind and
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: all kinds of pleadians and the But I do still
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: think that there are parts of her story that are
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: really legit. And I know they'd be doing these artificial
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: wombs and stuff. But let's see what today's survivor has
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: to tell us. What's her name again? Her name is Gloria,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: And I found this viteo of her thought you'd think
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: it was interesting. So we're going to watch it together.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Let me share all of my stuff here. You're going
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: to be sharing sharing screen, all right, So we are
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: going to check.
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  Speaker 5: This out, ladies and gentlemen. Today's guest is Gloria Masters,
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  Speaker 5: a survivor of some of the most extreme forms of
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  Speaker 5: child exploitation and trafficking. And with that said, Gloria, welcome
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  Speaker 5: to the podcast.
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  Speaker 6: Thank you so much. It's a real privilege.
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  Speaker 5: To be here. How does it feel too, So this
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: is like a different type of Hollywood studio set up
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  Speaker 5: for today. Yes, yes it is.
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  Speaker 6: It's a very professional and very classy.
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  Speaker 5: Well, I mean, look your story. I've researched inside out,
• 8:00
  Speaker 5: back to front. And the best thing about having a
• 8:02
  Speaker 5: podcast is I can help one whoever I want, and
• 8:05
  Speaker 5: I only want to have on people whose stories I
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: resonate with, who I'd actually genuinely like to talk to.
• 8:12
  Speaker 5: And you know, having listened to yours, obviously this is
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: this is going to be a very deep dive into
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: some dark topics. But you know, for anyone that doesn't know,
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: even just meeting you in here, the energy that you've
• 8:24
  Speaker 5: brought in it's just glowing, and I can tell that
• 8:27
  Speaker 5: you're at a really good point in life now. And
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: you know, I think the fact that you've taken such
• 8:34
  Speaker 5: trauma and turned it into something that helps people, I
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: think is a credit to you. So really well done
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: for doing that. And you know, I think there's a
• 8:43
  Speaker 5: lot of people who are lucky that you're here and
• 8:45
  Speaker 5: that you're doing the work that you're doing, and we're
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: going to promote it as much as we can. So yeah,
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: So to start, there's a few places we can kick off,
• 8:55
  Speaker 5: and we've gone through our Q and A before the podcast,
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: so it's almost nothing's off limits for you. I think
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: a lot of people don't understand that New Zealand's a
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: very small part of the world. And you said something
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: that was that like kind of hit me when we
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: walked in here, which was that, you know, people assume
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: that this type of stuff, you know, child abuse and
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  Speaker 5: trafficking and exploitation, that only happens in bigger countries or
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: third world countries, or you know, this is just something
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  Speaker 5: that happens in film, and surely nothing like that could
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: happen in such a small part of the world. And
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: I think a lot of people don't realize that, yes,
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  Speaker 5: this does happen in places like New Zealand. It is
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: hard to think about and you know you've brought light
• 9:41
  Speaker 5: to that topic. So to the extent that you're comfortable,
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: how would you feel about taking the audience back to
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: I guess the earliest memories that you have of growing
• 9:54
  Speaker 5: up in New Zealand, because we do have a lot
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: of New Zealand audience and they know what, you know,
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  Speaker 5: the culture was like and the environment was like back then.
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: So to the extent you're comfortable and to the extent
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: that you can recall, how would you feel about us
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: starting at your earliest memory of your early stages of childhood,
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  Speaker 5: growing up during that time period of New Zealand and
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  Speaker 5: maybe even educatus as to what year that.
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  Speaker 6: Was, Yeah, sure, so I think for me it's probably
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  Speaker 6: nineteen sixty four, so I would have been four years
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  Speaker 6: old at that point. And just a little input here.
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  Speaker 6: New Zealand is a small country, but it's representative of
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  Speaker 6: any other country. So where we have child sexual abuse
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  Speaker 6: and trafficking in New Zealand, it's just depending on the
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  Speaker 6: size of the population. It's usually child sexual abuse is
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  Speaker 6: by the time a girl is sixteen up to one
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  Speaker 6: and three will have been abused sexually, and for boys
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  Speaker 6: it's one five. So that's just facts, that's just researched facts.
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  Speaker 6: But for me, it all began when I was an
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  Speaker 6: infant and my father was I believe I was born
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  Speaker 6: into a family and intergenerationally where child sexual abuse and
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  Speaker 6: trafficking was normal and normalized. And the reason I say
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  Speaker 6: that is because that is what my growing up years
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  Speaker 6: were like. And I can remember, you know, being a
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  Speaker 6: very small child, probably about four when I remember vividly
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  Speaker 6: the friends and the extended family members who would be
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  Speaker 6: at my father's house and abuse me. So there was
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  Speaker 6: a lot of that over sexualization and wanting to hurt
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  Speaker 6: and sexually abuse a young child. Now, because it was
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  Speaker 6: so normalized, my grandmother, his mother, was tasked worth training
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  Speaker 6: me to be the best sex worker or slave I
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  Speaker 6: could be, And by that I mean she got paid
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  Speaker 6: money to do it because I would see the money
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  Speaker 6: changing hands. So the more she could train me to
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  Speaker 6: sexually please men and to a lesser extent, women, the
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  Speaker 6: more acts I could perform, the more money they could
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  Speaker 6: make and the more commission she would be paid. And
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  Speaker 6: that training started when I was five.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, what's worse. Let's really.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Talk about it for a second, because a lot of
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  Speaker 2: the SRA survivors that we have heard from talk about
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  Speaker 2: how they come from generational Satanism and that their grandmas
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  Speaker 2: were really the ones responsible for their training and inducting
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  Speaker 2: them in and whatever. I had this friend in elementary
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  Speaker 2: school and she came over to my house to spend
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: the night one time. Her name's Monica, I'll never forget it.
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  Speaker 1: And she just we were just playing.
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  Speaker 2: Dolls or something, polly pockets, and my mom came in
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  Speaker 2: and she was like, so, Monica, I don't even know
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  Speaker 2: what the fuck she asked her, and she was like, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I lived with my grandma because my dad was molesting me.
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  Speaker 2: And we were in elementary school when she's just blurted
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  Speaker 2: this out, you know, and it was just like water
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  Speaker 2: off a ducts back. Yeah, I lived with my grandma
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  Speaker 2: because my dad was molesting me. So I wasn't allowed
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  Speaker 2: to hang out with her anymore because my mom said,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: there's some weirdness going on with that one. You're not
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: hanging out with her anymore. And I said, okay, Mom,
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  Speaker 2: I thought it was weird too. She probably was molested
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  Speaker 2: by her dad. I don't know, but my mom just
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: didn't want me around that stuff, so or kids talking
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: about that kind of stuff, because I was like, what
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: does it mean to get molested?
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: And my mom wasn't playing that shit.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: She was like, uh uh no, we ain't even talking
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  Speaker 2: about that right now. But now that I know obviously
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: what that means and stuff.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: What is worse.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Growing up in generational Satanism and having this happen to you?
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: And you gotta wonder. It's like, were the great did
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: the grandparents? Did they really get off on this shit?
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Or was it a financial thing? And at some point,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: because it is generational, was it so normalized in their
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: family that they just think that's the thing to do
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: and that's all that they know, so that's why they
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: do it. Or is it worse to have a grassroots pedophile?
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: They're families normal, no generational Satanism. Most of them are
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: good Christian church going people. They cook in croc pots,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: they have cast roles, they do family stuff together, wonderful
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Christmas celebrations and shit, And every time the family gets together,
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: they always just go, you know, cousin Eddie, there's just
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: something not right on him. There's just something not right
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: about him, and then you find out that he's a
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: grassroots pedophile, just loves the sexualization of children and wants
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: to be.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Sexual with children. What's worse.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Grassroots pedophilia or generational satanic pedophilia? Because you got to
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: almost wonder if those people didn't grow up in that way,
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: if that wasn't their family structure, would they have been
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: that way?
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Would they have done those things to children?
• 16:27
  Speaker 6: Right?
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: But these grassroots motherfuckers and then their kids get taken
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: and put with grandma Because I almost think it's more
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: disgusting because it's just coming from a weird demon that
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: lives inside them. How they acquired the demon, I don't know,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: But the the grassroots, nobody else in the family's doing this.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Shit except for you.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Type thing, in my opinion, kind of is worse. But
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to interject with that little tidbit, not
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: saying that I am on board.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: With either one.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Is just a question what makes your stomach turn more,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: generational satanism or grassroots? Little food for thought that this
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: is an intellectual exercise that you can only receive from
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: listening to the Cosmic Beat podcast. So anyways, let's get
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: back to this story here, all right, this is the
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: stuff I'm talking about, people, This is the stuff I'm
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: talking about.
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: So by the time I was six years old, I
• 17:48
  Speaker 6: was being trified out of my father's time, out of
• 17:53
  Speaker 6: my grandmother's home, and out of various clubs and nightclubs
• 18:00
  Speaker 6: in Auckland. So I never stood a chance. Lam just
• 18:05
  Speaker 6: didn't stand a chance.
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: And you can you can remember parts of this at
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: the age.
• 18:10
  Speaker 6: Of six, Yes, at the age of six, because I
• 18:12
  Speaker 6: remember it was my birthday and outside the bedroom door
• 18:16
  Speaker 6: was a shiny, bright red scooter and what I noticed was, Wow,
• 18:23
  Speaker 6: I don't normally get a present or nothing nice really
• 18:27
  Speaker 6: ever happens to me, and that really struck me. But
• 18:30
  Speaker 6: of course that was a year that I started really
• 18:33
  Speaker 6: making some money for my family.
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: And at this point so so because it was my
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: understanding was that this was at the hands of your father,
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: your mother, and your grandmother on your father's side.
• 18:50
  Speaker 6: Not my mother. No, my mother was complicit, complicit through
• 18:56
  Speaker 6: her absence and never wanting to know anything.
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: Okay, So it was primarily the father who was responsible
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: for this.
• 19:03
  Speaker 6: Yes, And it started with him, his family, adult family members,
• 19:08
  Speaker 6: and his friends, and that it all began there. Then
• 19:11
  Speaker 6: it grew and grew and grew.
• 19:14
  Speaker 5: Just a quick one. Did you have your siblings in
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: the same household?
• 19:17
  Speaker 6: Or yes, I did, but I can't really talk about
• 19:20
  Speaker 6: it of course, no reasons.
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: I totally understand that we don't need to touch on that.
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: So okay, So your earliest memories go back to the
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: ages of four to six, and it started within the family.
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: I say this for better or worse. I so we've
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: had a lot of child sexual abuse survivors on this
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: and people have turned to like a life of crime.
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: And I've seen the impact that it has on people.
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: And I know that whether it's a domestic abuse or
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: child abuse or physical abuse, it always starts with you know,
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: I can get away with this, and so then the
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: next thing I can get away is going to be
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: a lot worse than the first thing that I got
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: away with. To the extent you're comfortable, do you want
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: to talk about kind of you know where this started
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: to the extent that you can remember, and you know
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: how it kind of progressed from that starting point, you know,
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: and how to the extent you're comfortable, how bad did
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: it get and you know, how did you kind of
• 20:29
  Speaker 5: mentally survive.
• 20:32
  Speaker 6: The yeah so and good questions. I get that, So
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: I think for me, it all started with being overly
• 20:43
  Speaker 6: sexualized and being groomed, because grooming is a thing that
• 20:47
  Speaker 6: we don't often talk about and people misunderstand what grooming
• 20:51
  Speaker 6: actually is. So grooming of a child was making me
• 20:57
  Speaker 6: become more sexualized around people that I should never have
• 21:01
  Speaker 6: been sexualized around. I had to fuego who I was
• 21:05
  Speaker 6: as a child in order to keep these men happy
• 21:11
  Speaker 6: and my grandmother happy, because these were very angry, well psychopathic,
• 21:18
  Speaker 6: clearly adults who could see nothing wrong with using and
• 21:23
  Speaker 6: abusing me. So the first rape occurred with my father
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: at the age of four and a half, but prior
• 21:30
  Speaker 6: to that there was a lot of that sexualized behavior
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: and touching and grooming. Now, once I reached five and
• 21:38
  Speaker 6: the training began, that's when other acts would have to
• 21:42
  Speaker 6: be taught to me. But as you can imagine, as
• 21:45
  Speaker 6: a small child, I was terrified. And what they quickly
• 21:49
  Speaker 6: realized was that no one wanted to pay good money
• 21:52
  Speaker 6: on a child that would freeze, so they started to
• 21:55
  Speaker 6: drug me. So as an adult and a teenager, I
• 22:01
  Speaker 6: have never been able to touch drugs. It frightened me
• 22:07
  Speaker 6: because I'd wake up and not know where I was
• 22:10
  Speaker 6: or what had happened. So that was that was pretty
• 22:14
  Speaker 6: horrendous for me as well.
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: Did the drugging part erase your memory? Did it just
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: kind of incapacitate you at that time?
• 22:27
  Speaker 6: Incapacitate at the time. Yeah. And look, the other thing
• 22:30
  Speaker 6: too is that there wasn't just sexual abuse as in
• 22:34
  Speaker 6: sexual acts. I also had to I've performed in over
• 22:39
  Speaker 6: one hundred child sexual abuse materials. We call it now videos,
• 22:45
  Speaker 6: but they back in the day it was the old
• 22:47
  Speaker 6: fashioned It wasn't a video as such. I'm trying to
• 22:51
  Speaker 6: think of the name of it.
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: The big projection room projectors.
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so I always remember hearing the sound of the
• 22:58
  Speaker 6: click click, click, click click as the wheels were turning.
• 23:01
  Speaker 6: But there out there. One comment from someone in the
• 23:08
  Speaker 6: police was that there possibly in the States they couldn't
• 23:12
  Speaker 6: be tracked. It was such a long time ago. But
• 23:15
  Speaker 6: there were lots of still images as well. But where
• 23:18
  Speaker 6: we did the filming was in this nightclub in Auckland
• 23:23
  Speaker 6: in our red light district, and there was a stage
• 23:27
  Speaker 6: with a pole and everything, and there would be a
• 23:30
  Speaker 6: group of men sitting around in a circle, and I
• 23:33
  Speaker 6: would have to dance for them and perform for them,
• 23:37
  Speaker 6: and what I would do would be to try and
• 23:39
  Speaker 6: work out who the softest natured predator was because then
• 23:44
  Speaker 6: they wouldn't hurt me so much. Or that was what
• 23:47
  Speaker 6: my childlike mine told me, so from quite a young age.
• 23:51
  Speaker 6: There was a lot of that happening as well, which
• 23:54
  Speaker 6: was also generating income for my father.
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: This his soul source of income or did he have
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: any did he do anything?
• 24:03
  Speaker 6: He was a registered plumber, so he was working as well.
• 24:08
  Speaker 6: But this is not this is not a healthy well man.
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: This is psychopathic stuff. This is sociopathic.
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: Did I feel like I know the answers to this?
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: But was he ever at any stage like diagnosed with
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: this or no? I feel that to get a diagnosis,
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: from what I understand, you typically need to be convicted
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: of a crime and go through a mandatory task. That's
• 24:38
  Speaker 5: not something people do.
• 24:39
  Speaker 6: He was never held to account, really never, and although
• 24:46
  Speaker 6: I tried in my thirties to get it before the courts,
• 24:49
  Speaker 6: it wasn't successful. But just to finish up what I've
• 24:54
  Speaker 6: experienced that you know, as well as the child's actual
• 24:56
  Speaker 6: abuse materials that were made that I hate to perform.
• 25:00
  Speaker 6: And I also had many forced abortions on me because
• 25:03
  Speaker 6: as a pubescent child from the age of eleven and
• 25:07
  Speaker 6: a half three to sixteen, no one wanted a pregnant child,
• 25:11
  Speaker 6: did they. So my grandmother would perform the abortions on me,
• 25:16
  Speaker 6: and sometimes they would go terribly wrong, and that's when
• 25:20
  Speaker 6: they would call in a well known doctor who I
• 25:24
  Speaker 6: won't name, but he was part of a very elite
• 25:27
  Speaker 6: group of predators that would abuse me as well. So
• 25:31
  Speaker 6: he would come along and I remember one night he
• 25:34
  Speaker 6: turned to my grandmother and said, if she makes it
• 25:38
  Speaker 6: through the night, that would be good. He wasn't convinced
• 25:44
  Speaker 6: I would because I just lost so much blood. But look,
• 25:49
  Speaker 6: there were many many things. There was bestiality, there was
• 25:55
  Speaker 6: this a tenant ritual abuse. There were so many things
• 25:58
  Speaker 6: that went on that people struggle to believe. So I
• 26:03
  Speaker 6: don't I can talk about it, but the reality is
• 26:08
  Speaker 6: I know what I went through, and I'm just so
• 26:11
  Speaker 6: so grateful to be alive and out of all of
• 26:14
  Speaker 6: the abuse that occurred to me. If you were ask
• 26:17
  Speaker 6: me what was worse, the sexual the physical, because I'd
• 26:20
  Speaker 6: be thrown against walls like these people were out of control.
• 26:25
  Speaker 6: Or the emotional psychological. It's the psychological abuse every time.
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: For people who don't know, because obviously there's some heavy
• 26:37
  Speaker 5: topics and people might not be aware the mechanics behind
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: different types of abuse. Some of it's evident physical abuse,
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: and we can touch on that a minute, but for
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: people that don't understand, could you talk through in that
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: context what the psychological abuse looks like.
• 26:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, So for me, my parents split up when I
• 26:59
  Speaker 6: was eleven and I got left in the house with
• 27:02
  Speaker 6: my father and my brother, who was four and a
• 27:05
  Speaker 6: half years older and who was what I would call
• 27:08
  Speaker 6: a mini me, So he was actually worse than my father.
• 27:12
  Speaker 6: He was very cruel. He learned from a young age
• 27:16
  Speaker 6: how to abuse and how to inflict as much cruelty
• 27:20
  Speaker 6: as possible and got pleasure from it. So when I
• 27:25
  Speaker 6: talk about the psychological trauma, I would be at home
• 27:30
  Speaker 6: after school. My father would come home when it was
• 27:33
  Speaker 6: dinner time. I had to do everything as an eleven
• 27:35
  Speaker 6: year old child, not knowing what I was doing. But
• 27:40
  Speaker 6: it wouldn't be uncommon for them to strip me naked,
• 27:43
  Speaker 6: put a dog collar around my neck, and I wasn't
• 27:47
  Speaker 6: allowed to eat when they did, but they would let
• 27:49
  Speaker 6: me have water off the floor or the food they
• 27:55
  Speaker 6: would throw on the floor, but I wasn't allowed to
• 27:56
  Speaker 6: use my hands. So think about as de gray and
• 28:00
  Speaker 6: de based and dehumanized, and that's what I mean, and
• 28:05
  Speaker 6: being screamed at and yelled at and called all sorts
• 28:08
  Speaker 6: of names. So, yes, the physical sexual trauma was undeniably horrendous,
• 28:17
  Speaker 6: but I think it's a psychological trauma that left yah.
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: So your dad and your brother did this, yes, yes,
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: and he was four years older, four.
• 28:27
  Speaker 6: And a half years older, so I was eleven and
• 28:28
  Speaker 6: a half and he was fifteen.
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: So it's hard for anyone's mind to really even kind
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: of comprehend something like that happening because it's so horrific.
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: Do you think your brother like inherited that sort of
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: psychopathy and you just got trapped with two of the
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: worst types of people that you could ever be trapped with.
• 28:50
  Speaker 6: I think you're right. I don't understand enough about why
• 28:58
  Speaker 6: he would have chosen because I always thought he'd protect
• 29:02
  Speaker 6: but that wasn't possible, that wasn't available to me. So
• 29:06
  Speaker 6: if my father, for instance, was out of the house working,
• 29:10
  Speaker 6: he would put my brother in charge, and all I
• 29:12
  Speaker 6: could do was run so I was a very fast runner.
• 29:16
  Speaker 6: I went to move quickly. And it was worse than
• 29:19
  Speaker 6: that because he had three friends or two friends in
• 29:23
  Speaker 6: particular he would bring round after school and during school holidays,
• 29:27
  Speaker 6: so they would all have go as well. So it
• 29:30
  Speaker 6: was I just could never escape any of it.
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: And this was we're talking from ages of five.
• 29:36
  Speaker 6: To eleven to sixteen. Sorry, eleven to twelve and a
• 29:42
  Speaker 6: half is when I was left in the house. At
• 29:44
  Speaker 6: the age of twelve and a half, some things occurred
• 29:48
  Speaker 6: and I left the house and went to live with
• 29:52
  Speaker 6: my mother, but I had to go back every second
• 29:55
  Speaker 6: weekend until I turned sixteen because that's when the courts sided.
• 30:01
  Speaker 6: I could choose for myself, so I never willingly chose
• 30:04
  Speaker 6: to see my father again and.
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: Again. To the extent that you're comfortable, do you recall
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: the worst of the physical that you experienced, because that's
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: obviously another part of it. Was there an instance or
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: instances where you kind of you can kind of recall
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: specifically what was the hardest of that part to go
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: through it?
• 30:29
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so it was through one of our gangs in
• 30:32
  Speaker 6: New Zealand. I won't name them because they're still active today.
• 30:37
  Speaker 6: But my father least. It was not uncommon for me
• 30:41
  Speaker 6: to be least to this gang, and so it was
• 30:45
  Speaker 6: an initiation ceremony and I was left there overnight. So
• 30:52
  Speaker 6: what my father did was said to the gang leader,
• 30:58
  Speaker 6: I'll pick her up in the morning. And because it
• 31:01
  Speaker 6: was an initiation, so it's a newly blooded gang member
• 31:05
  Speaker 6: has to prove their worth. So what they did was
• 31:09
  Speaker 6: they got me in and they put me outside. But
• 31:13
  Speaker 6: they put me what you call on the block, which
• 31:15
  Speaker 6: is hands and feet tied to corners of a plank
• 31:19
  Speaker 6: which was laid across a table. And he then started
• 31:24
  Speaker 6: to rape me, which is bad enough with many of
• 31:28
  Speaker 6: them just watching. But then something in him changed and
• 31:33
  Speaker 6: he started to pummel me. Now I'm tied, I'm an
• 31:37
  Speaker 6: underweight twelve year old. By this time, I'm terrified. I'm defenseless.
• 31:45
  Speaker 6: By the time he finished and everyone else had to go,
• 31:49
  Speaker 6: I was unconscious. Next morning, when my father came to
• 31:52
  Speaker 6: put me up, he said to the gang leader, well,
• 31:57
  Speaker 6: you might want to be careful what you do to here,
• 32:01
  Speaker 6: And I thought, oh, was he actually sticking up for
• 32:04
  Speaker 6: me for a change. And the next weads were because
• 32:06
  Speaker 6: she won't look for as good for you. Next time. Really, yeah, yes,
• 32:12
  Speaker 6: because they.
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: This would have been the sixties, right, and seventies.
• 32:18
  Speaker 6: When I was twelve it was nineteen seventy two.
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: Because you look at a lot of gang culture today
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: and a lot of them have rules where it's like
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: that sort of stuff will get you unlive or tossed
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: out of the gang. What kind of like people were
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: doing this back then?
• 32:38
  Speaker 6: I don't know, and I to be fear it's not
• 32:41
  Speaker 6: just across the gangs. This is this is as high
• 32:45
  Speaker 6: a level as you can get down to. It's up
• 32:48
  Speaker 6: and down and across all levels of society cultures. You know.
• 32:53
  Speaker 6: I've often been asked describe what a typical pedophile or
• 32:58
  Speaker 6: predator looks like. They look like me, and they look
• 33:01
  Speaker 6: like they could be the most educated, can't considered kindest,
• 33:07
  Speaker 6: most generous person in the world, but they're interested in
• 33:12
  Speaker 6: abusing children or trafficking children.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: All right, this is the stuff I'm talking about, people,
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: This is the stuff I'm talking about this. How do you, okay,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: how do you trust a soul that's out there? How
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: do you trust a soul? Because this isn't the first
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: time we've heard that. It could be your neighbor, your doctor,
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: your police officer, your fireman, because they're all into this shit.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: But how do you even like date?
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: And this is what I'm going to say, because I
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: know this happened to her in the sixties and seventies.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: Teal Swan's story is a little bit more re in
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: The Bitch with the More Gallons is a little bit
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: more recent. I know Fiona Barnett's story was in the
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: eighties and nineties, and obviously this woman is a little
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: bit older. She's given me the chills, by the way.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: I got a cold chill on my spine right now.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: And sometimes you know, your body can pick up when
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: somebody is being honest and and when something is true,
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: like your body literally can pick up on it. I
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: got tingles, I got chills, I got a six stomach
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: and wow, but how do you even date somebody? Because
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: it's like I can't trust and I don't trust and
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: it's just a sickening world.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: That we live in.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: I will tell you what will never fail you and
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: take get leave it. You know, I'm not into the
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: energy work and shadow people and not shadow people. I
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: do believe in shadow people, but you know what I'm
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: saying with the shadow work and all that stuff. But
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: you don't have to believe in all that to get.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: On board with this.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Trust your intuition. Don't care if it's a male, a female,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: a teacher, a doctor, a lawyer, whoever.
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: The fuck.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Trust you're in too it, Shawn. And if you don't
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: got a strong one, you better start the fuck working
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: on it because it will serve you every time. Okay,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: that tiny little voice that comes from the back of
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: your head that whispers quietly to you something ain't right,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: but you try to be nice, and you try. Oh no,
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: I don't want to upset anybody.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to be nice.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: This could be that tiny voice in the back of
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: your fucking skull, you know. Let me just cook for
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: a minute. There have been many times I used to
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: get actually physical symptoms of this happening when I would
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: meet somebody. And it's not that they were pedophile or
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: anything like that. They just ended up not being no
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: good for me relationship wise, friendship wise. Otherwise my ears
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: would get hot during certain interactions with these random people.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: It could have been somebody that I wasn't even romantically
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: interested in, but just like friendship wise, I'd have an
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: interaction with them and they do or say, something in
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: my ears would literally get red hot and then I
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: would just get like this all over body tingle and
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: I knew, but what did I do? Because I'm retarded,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: I would say to myself, well, they're really nice, and
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm just overthinking this or I'm just that
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: little voice. So maybe some of you like me. I
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: don't get the red hot ears anymore, but since I've
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: had my baby, I get all type of other things
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: going on. It's like a weird instinct has taken over
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: my body. I'll be on the lookout. But anyways, pay
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: attention because this shit is real and let's continue on.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: But I'm just saying so.
• 37:35
  Speaker 6: But all I'm saying is that did happen. I don't
• 37:38
  Speaker 6: know what happens now in game life.
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: And someone like that would get on a lift.
• 37:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well no that was and well I was born
• 37:47
  Speaker 6: in for that ceremony and I was It wasn't the
• 37:50
  Speaker 6: only time I was there, so yeah, that was a
• 37:53
  Speaker 6: thing that was happening, and there were other children.
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: And so you. And to thank you for sharing because
• 38:02
  Speaker 5: I know this is very very brave and strong will
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: to do this, because I can't imagine how hard this
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: would be so yeah, it's it's it's it's very appreciated. So,
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: you know, you talked about how this does cross different
• 38:17
  Speaker 5: parts of society, and people may think, oh, that's terrible,
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: it's a gang, but you know that could never happen
• 38:22
  Speaker 5: with like a judge or a police officer, or a
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: doctor or a lawyer. But you know, having consumed a
• 38:28
  Speaker 5: lot of your content and researched a lot of your background,
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: apparently it's quite the contrary. And one of the things
• 38:35
  Speaker 5: I heard you talk about was that you know, there
• 38:38
  Speaker 5: was a lot of these upper societal groups and it
• 38:43
  Speaker 5: would happen within there. So, like, to the extent that
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: you're comfortable, do you want to maybe take take the
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: audience a little bit into what you can recall from
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: when you were exposed to these higher level groups of
• 38:58
  Speaker 5: people who some some viewers might not even know that
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: this is a thing.
• 39:04
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and I think and that's really important. And what
• 39:07
  Speaker 6: I'm about to say may shock some people. And I'm
• 39:11
  Speaker 6: just going to say it this way. Freemasons were involved.
• 39:15
  Speaker 6: They were a group I was trafficked to repetitively and regularly.
• 39:21
  Speaker 6: And now I am not saying so disclaimer, please, I
• 39:24
  Speaker 6: am not saying that every Freemason is a child predator
• 39:29
  Speaker 6: or pedophile. I am saying at different levels within the hierarchy,
• 39:34
  Speaker 6: there are groups that do abuse children, and that's who
• 39:38
  Speaker 6: I had the misfortune and to being involved in.
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: Do you recall the first instance of when you were
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: exposed to that group and you know to the extent
• 39:49
  Speaker 5: you can share what happened and what you saw happening.
• 39:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah. So look, I think initially it's important to understand
• 39:56
  Speaker 6: my father was part of the Freemasons and because he
• 40:00
  Speaker 6: could provide a child like me, that stood him in
• 40:05
  Speaker 6: good stead. And we know it's a secret society. We
• 40:08
  Speaker 6: know hand signs are used, which you and I going
• 40:12
  Speaker 6: to talk about how we've managed to up.
• 40:14
  Speaker 5: That's very impressive. I'm looking forward to that part of
• 40:16
  Speaker 5: the conversation. Actually, nice, happy change. We're doing okay, to
• 40:21
  Speaker 5: go through the dark to get to the light. Yeah.
• 40:24
  Speaker 6: But look, so the Freemasons that chose to abuse we're
• 40:30
  Speaker 6: part of. We're in a higher level, much higher level
• 40:34
  Speaker 6: than any of the others, and they were I was
• 40:37
  Speaker 6: born and breed Catholics, so the Freemasons had infiltrated the
• 40:41
  Speaker 6: Catholic Church. And again, not every freemason is an abuser.
• 40:46
  Speaker 6: But today if you drive around any part of New
• 40:49
  Speaker 6: Zealand and you see the Freemason lodgers, good luck finding
• 40:53
  Speaker 6: clear glass and big glass panes. No, it's all very.
• 40:58
  Speaker 5: That's a good point because there's one around the corner
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: from here, and there's no glass.
• 41:02
  Speaker 6: It's very, very difficult to see in and it's very secretive.
• 41:07
  Speaker 6: And my thing is, if you're doing good work, why
• 41:10
  Speaker 6: are you hiding it? So they were I was first
• 41:16
  Speaker 6: taken into them as a younger child, and when my
• 41:21
  Speaker 6: mother was living in the house. It would be on
• 41:25
  Speaker 6: occasions when she would perhaps be going and staying with
• 41:29
  Speaker 6: her own parents, so she was often absent from the
• 41:33
  Speaker 6: family home. But I'll be thrown in the back of
• 41:37
  Speaker 6: the vein and taken And there were other children there
• 41:40
  Speaker 6: at these group meetings, and we were drugged. So we
• 41:42
  Speaker 6: would have to line up and there would be a
• 41:46
  Speaker 6: nurse in attendance, and we would have a needle to
• 41:49
  Speaker 6: the arm, and then we would be laid out in
• 41:53
  Speaker 6: a circle and the Satanic ritual abuse would occur. So
• 41:56
  Speaker 6: that is grown men who are where ring types of
• 42:02
  Speaker 6: robes and headgear led by a grandmaster, and there would
• 42:07
  Speaker 6: be chanting and then they would abuse children, And you know,
• 42:14
  Speaker 6: that's kind of one of the memories I have. But
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: I also know that on certain days or at certain
• 42:23
  Speaker 6: times of the year, there would be bigger ceremonies where
• 42:26
  Speaker 6: they wouldn't be held within the lodgers, and they would
• 42:29
  Speaker 6: be rural Auckland or rural parts of New Zealand, and
• 42:35
  Speaker 6: there would be weekends where things like this would carry on.
• 42:42
  Speaker 5: Do you remember what happened to you at these.
• 42:44
  Speaker 6: Over Oh it was raped, sexually abused, but there were
• 42:50
  Speaker 6: boys and girls there as well, so all ages of
• 42:55
  Speaker 6: boys and girls and just terrified. You could hear children
• 42:59
  Speaker 6: crying in the ones didn't know what was really happening,
• 43:03
  Speaker 6: and yeah, it was terrible.
• 43:08
  Speaker 5: Was everyone kind of like transported there in the same
• 43:11
  Speaker 5: group or no people would meet there.
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: But you see, for the freemasons, where they would get
• 43:17
  Speaker 6: their children from could even be as in my case,
• 43:21
  Speaker 6: from within their own families or children who no one
• 43:24
  Speaker 6: really cared about. So you know, I think this is
• 43:29
  Speaker 6: what you and I talked off here before the whole
• 43:31
  Speaker 6: p Diddy thing. There were children brought in from child
• 43:36
  Speaker 6: services who no one was interested in. So there was
• 43:39
  Speaker 6: that happening as well. But the reality is, and I
• 43:44
  Speaker 6: know it's hard for the audience and to the survivors
• 43:48
  Speaker 6: of this watching you know, have such a heart for them.
• 43:51
  Speaker 6: They're so brave, and people would prefer to ignore it
• 43:56
  Speaker 6: or turn away and not judging that Liam because it's
• 44:01
  Speaker 6: our cognitive dissonance. We struggle. If we're a good person
• 44:06
  Speaker 6: with good ethics and morals, we can't even comprehend this came.
• 44:10
  Speaker 6: We really, it's just so bizarre and so cruel. The
• 44:15
  Speaker 6: reality is, however, it did happen. It does happen, and
• 44:20
  Speaker 6: we can no longer tune away because we've got too
• 44:22
  Speaker 6: many beautiful children and grandchildren being abused today. And I
• 44:28
  Speaker 6: know across the world, I get survivors reaching out all
• 44:32
  Speaker 6: the time, desperate for help to escape.
• 44:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm glad you said that. And this is why
• 44:37
  Speaker 5: this is the main reason why I'm glad that we're
• 44:39
  Speaker 5: doing this, Because, well, for people that don't know, part
• 44:44
  Speaker 5: of my job, I manage hundreds of creators, and I
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: would say eighty percent of them are girls. So I
• 44:48
  Speaker 5: have a lot of interaction with girls, even though I
• 44:51
  Speaker 5: might come off as a bit of a like a
• 44:52
  Speaker 5: dude's dude like I am surrounded by a lot of girls,
• 44:55
  Speaker 5: and you know, you talked about the statistics, and I
• 44:58
  Speaker 5: can say anecdotally the amount of stories that I have
• 45:02
  Speaker 5: to hear from, you know, girls who this has happened to,
• 45:07
  Speaker 5: it's horrific. You know, I've seen girls who like they'll
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: wake up with like panic attacks, and girls who have
• 45:14
  Speaker 5: become so dissociative, like they will just mentally disappear for
• 45:19
  Speaker 5: like days at a time. And you know, I've seen
• 45:21
  Speaker 5: it happen a lot, and also even even men. One
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: of my close mates, his name's Graham Abbo Henry was
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: on the on the podcast, and he was institutionalized in
• 45:32
  Speaker 5: the sixties and it was the same story as yours.
• 45:35
  Speaker 5: And it was also child predators being paid to come in,
• 45:39
  Speaker 5: paying to come into a prison to hurt little boys,
• 45:42
  Speaker 5: and boys act out a lot differently, right. The girls,
• 45:46
  Speaker 5: the girls who I know who's happened to, they will
• 45:49
  Speaker 5: internalize a lot of it. It causes a lot of panic.
• 45:51
  Speaker 5: A lot of the men, I've seen them become murderous
• 45:54
  Speaker 5: because of it. So the generational impact that this has
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: as a whole in society, it's horrific. And I think
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: you made a good point. It is hard for people
• 46:05
  Speaker 5: to understand because something is so horrific. The human mind
• 46:09
  Speaker 5: isn't even built to comprehend something like that. So it
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: does take a lot of work and a lot of
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: hard discipline to even allow your mind to consume a
• 46:19
  Speaker 5: story like this.
• 46:20
  Speaker 6: So yeah, and I love that you've said that. Thank
• 46:23
  Speaker 6: you so much, because it shout out to our male survivors.
• 46:26
  Speaker 6: It's no disrespect at all to the amazing women that
• 46:31
  Speaker 6: have survived us. I've got such a love for them.
• 46:35
  Speaker 6: For our men, however, the conditioning is never to speak,
• 46:38
  Speaker 6: and that you're weak if you do, and suck it
• 46:40
  Speaker 6: up and what are you gay? And all of that
• 46:43
  Speaker 6: toxicity shuts our men down, and it's wrong because they
• 46:49
  Speaker 6: were I'll show you an image of an eight year
• 46:51
  Speaker 6: old boy. What power do they have?
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: Does this?
• 46:55
  Speaker 6: Not?
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Sorry to cut in, but there's this not remind you
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: of the Menindez.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Brothers, because.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: When they went to trial and said, my dad has
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: been raping me my entire life, they said they're making
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: it up. They probably liked it. They're gay, they're this
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: or that, they're fem they're You become so filled with
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: rage when this is your life and even the guy
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: doing the interview, he's like, I've literally seen men who
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: this has happened to become murderers.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: And the Menindez brothers didn't even just go like murder people.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: They murdered the two people doing this to them, and
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: it was fresh, it was current. It wasn't like maybe
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: for a while, but for Eric, it was like a hot,
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: fresh rape, okay, and he just could not do it anymore, okay.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: And they murdered their abusers, not just random people or
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: something like that. But as she's sitting here talking, I
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: just want to say, for an example from my show,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: look at what they've done to the Menendez brothers, all right.
• 48:28
  Speaker 6: And they didn't they didn't have any So it's time
• 48:31
  Speaker 6: for the world to stand beside all survivors and say
• 48:35
  Speaker 6: I see you, I hear you, and I believe you.
• 48:39
  Speaker 5: There's a lot of work to be done.
• 48:40
  Speaker 6: There's a lot of work. But equally, I want to
• 48:42
  Speaker 6: talk a little because you have mentioned this.
• 48:45
  Speaker 5: You could talk all day. By the way, we've got
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: no time. There's no one here. It's your man. This
• 48:51
  Speaker 5: is an open room of trust. We can talk and
• 48:54
  Speaker 5: talk and talk. You can. I'll book you a different
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: flight if I have to no timely awsome.
• 49:00
  Speaker 6: It's so good to have this advocacy. You know, we
• 49:03
  Speaker 6: talk about what the mind does, and I've heard this
• 49:08
  Speaker 6: and it's not a Gloria original, but it's so special.
• 49:12
  Speaker 6: It's the best meaning of dissociation I've ever heard. Because
• 49:17
  Speaker 6: you ask any survivor, male or female, what they do
• 49:20
  Speaker 6: when the abuse was occurring. They dissociate. Now what that
• 49:24
  Speaker 6: means is our mind leaves because our body can't. That's simple. Yeah,
• 49:33
  Speaker 6: how powerful is that? So our mind is protecting us
• 49:37
  Speaker 6: by removing us from the situation. And people will say, oh,
• 49:42
  Speaker 6: how is that possible? So I'll put it this way.
• 49:45
  Speaker 6: Anyone watching, if you've had a car accident, chances are
• 49:49
  Speaker 6: it could be a day or two before you remember
• 49:51
  Speaker 6: the finer details because your mind blanked out to protect you.
• 49:55
  Speaker 6: So it's no different for us as survivors. And guess
• 49:59
  Speaker 6: what the memories, especially for the type of trauma I
• 50:03
  Speaker 6: went through for sixteen years. The memories can only resurface
• 50:09
  Speaker 6: when our mind is ready to deal. So for those
• 50:13
  Speaker 6: people that are accused of making it up or how
• 50:16
  Speaker 6: could you not remember, I'm here to say remember, dissociation
• 50:20
  Speaker 6: is when the mind leaves because the body couldn't.
• 50:23
  Speaker 5: Hm. Did you ever have anything that like kind of
• 50:29
  Speaker 5: in your adult years, because obviously there's a lot of
• 50:32
  Speaker 5: stuff where you would have dissociated as a defense mechanism
• 50:36
  Speaker 5: to protect you. Was there any instance in your adult
• 50:39
  Speaker 5: years where something happened that triggered that and brought you
• 50:42
  Speaker 5: back into that period.
• 50:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and that can happen a lot to survivors, So
• 50:47
  Speaker 6: thank you. Another really good question. So as survivors, we
• 50:51
  Speaker 6: can do as much healing as we want, not encourage
• 50:54
  Speaker 6: all of your amazing ones watching too, please do what
• 50:57
  Speaker 6: you can to recover from this. But we can't know
• 51:02
  Speaker 6: when a flashback or a trigger is coming. And it
• 51:05
  Speaker 6: could be as simple as hearing footsteps behind us and
• 51:08
  Speaker 6: suddenly were that child again, someone's coming up behind Or
• 51:12
  Speaker 6: it could be the smell of bacon frying outside when
• 51:17
  Speaker 6: that was a barbecue you might have been at as
• 51:19
  Speaker 6: a child when the predator first got you and bacon
• 51:23
  Speaker 6: was frying on the barbecue or outside.
• 51:26
  Speaker 5: Do you remember any of these that have happened to you?
• 51:27
  Speaker 6: Yes, yes, I do it, and that's my point. So yeah,
• 51:31
  Speaker 6: or even walking along the beach it was just a
• 51:35
  Speaker 6: recent one and I saw this man walking towards me,
• 51:38
  Speaker 6: older man and the way he walked, I thought it
• 51:41
  Speaker 6: was my father. I was so convinced because of the
• 51:45
  Speaker 6: gate and the stature, and even from a distance the face,
• 51:49
  Speaker 6: and I thought, how is that possible? So instead of
• 51:53
  Speaker 6: staying and my power as a resilient, grateful woman, I
• 52:02
  Speaker 6: felt like a child again. I just wanted to run
• 52:04
  Speaker 6: and hide.
• 52:05
  Speaker 5: Is your body freeze as well?
• 52:07
  Speaker 6: Yeah? And good points. So it's for trauma responses, the
• 52:12
  Speaker 6: flight freeze or fawn. Mine was always the fawn, but
• 52:16
  Speaker 6: I had freeze as well. But yes, and of course
• 52:18
  Speaker 6: it's not him, He's been dead many years. But I'm
• 52:21
  Speaker 6: just saying for survivors watching, we need to understand that
• 52:25
  Speaker 6: they have no idea or warning that this is coming,
• 52:28
  Speaker 6: and when it does, you just need the people that
• 52:32
  Speaker 6: love you to support you. And it doesn't mean they
• 52:35
  Speaker 6: need to use a lot of words, but it just
• 52:37
  Speaker 6: means they can be there with you and give you
• 52:41
  Speaker 6: what you need, which might be a hug, it might
• 52:43
  Speaker 6: be let's put on comedy hour, it might be let's
• 52:47
  Speaker 6: just go for a walk on the beach, whatever it
• 52:49
  Speaker 6: happens to be. But can I take us back to
• 52:52
  Speaker 6: something you raise because it's such a good point. Just
• 52:56
  Speaker 6: think of me as a runaway train when you talk
• 52:59
  Speaker 6: about criminal activity and what the difference between what men
• 53:03
  Speaker 6: and women do through this trauma. I just want to
• 53:06
  Speaker 6: say this, if as a child you've suffered that type
• 53:09
  Speaker 6: of trauma, part of your brain shuts down and you
• 53:11
  Speaker 6: can't learn. Actually, but equally there's such an unresolved part
• 53:16
  Speaker 6: of you that can't be who you were, and that's
• 53:20
  Speaker 6: failure to launch, can't achieve what you wanted to because
• 53:25
  Speaker 6: of the conditioning you had. So how we see that
• 53:28
  Speaker 6: play out as in criminal criminal statistics drug and alcohol addition, addiction,
• 53:34
  Speaker 6: suicidal ideation or success at suicide, you know, incarceration, you
• 53:42
  Speaker 6: know women particularly going into this sextrate men as you say,
• 53:48
  Speaker 6: perhaps it's violent crime or because of the anger and
• 53:53
  Speaker 6: the angers there because they couldn't do anything, and society
• 53:56
  Speaker 6: still says, no, you don't need to talk about it.
• 53:58
  Speaker 6: What are you or was No? I'm a child that
• 54:01
  Speaker 6: was broken.
• 54:02
  Speaker 5: Let me funny say that because my mate Graham, he's
• 54:06
  Speaker 5: in his sixty seventies now, fantastic guy, but he said,
• 54:11
  Speaker 5: he said, before I got abused, he goes, I always
• 54:15
  Speaker 5: wanted to hurt people. It wasn't till then I wanted
• 54:17
  Speaker 5: to kill people. And I like gives you an idea
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: into the psyche. You know of what it can do,
• 54:24
  Speaker 5: especially to a male survivor.
• 54:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah, one hundred percent. And look, the reason I say
• 54:29
  Speaker 6: all that is because sometimes what happens is society just
• 54:33
  Speaker 6: because they don't know, which is why what you're doing
• 54:35
  Speaker 6: is amazing. So we can share some knowledge here. Society
• 54:39
  Speaker 6: looks at the adult. Oh, well you've been convicted of
• 54:44
  Speaker 6: a criminal crime. Oh you've got drug issues. Oh you
• 54:47
  Speaker 6: can't seem to hold down a job. Yeah, you're looking
• 54:50
  Speaker 6: at the adult. I'll show you the child who from
• 54:52
  Speaker 6: a very young age was traumatized sexually, you know, brutally
• 54:58
  Speaker 6: assaulted or rap made to feel so bad about it
• 55:03
  Speaker 6: that if they ever told anyone their family member or
• 55:06
  Speaker 6: pitt would be killed. So you tell me, is yet
• 55:09
  Speaker 6: what we're seeing? Yeah, a reflection of that for sure.
• 55:14
  Speaker 5: And there's a long way to go with the courts,
• 55:16
  Speaker 5: I think as well to factor a lot of that
• 55:17
  Speaker 5: stuff in as well. You know, I've been involved with
• 55:21
  Speaker 5: the number of cases where it was fortunate they got
• 55:23
  Speaker 5: a really good judge who did factor that in. But
• 55:25
  Speaker 5: I know that that's rare. It is rare.
• 55:27
  Speaker 6: And look, hey, I'm not saying and you'll find survivors
• 55:31
  Speaker 6: saying this, including your mate. Most survivors are pretty straight up.
• 55:35
  Speaker 6: If you say, look, you did that, they're going to
• 55:37
  Speaker 6: feel bad that I did. So they're going to own it.
• 55:40
  Speaker 6: I'm not excusing behavior, but I'm saying, can we please
• 55:43
  Speaker 6: understand it? So I showed you the child there, Yeah,
• 55:47
  Speaker 6: you would say, of course.
• 55:49
  Speaker 5: Now that's really I could not talking to my soul glower.
• 55:52
  Speaker 5: All right, So let's let's circle back. So we touched
• 55:56
  Speaker 5: on the incident that happened when you were traffic to
• 56:02
  Speaker 5: the Freemason organization. I heard one of your other podcasts
• 56:07
  Speaker 5: that you said you saw things happen to other kids,
• 56:10
  Speaker 5: including some that you believe may or may not have
• 56:13
  Speaker 5: been unalive to the extent that you're comfortable. Would you
• 56:16
  Speaker 5: like to talk about that. Yeah, and look, it's horrible,
• 56:18
  Speaker 5: only to the extent you're comfortable with.
• 56:20
  Speaker 6: So I'm just going to say it really clear, unliving happens.
• 56:24
  Speaker 6: It still happens today, But it does, and it's across
• 56:31
  Speaker 6: the world, and the cover up is huge, and it's
• 56:34
  Speaker 6: an extreme thing. But if you do any research on it,
• 56:39
  Speaker 6: you'll see more and more and more survivors talking about this.
• 56:43
  Speaker 6: But because of the nature of it, it's easier. I
• 56:47
  Speaker 6: think back to our cognitive dissonance for most good people
• 56:50
  Speaker 6: or safe adults to think you must be crazy, deluded,
• 56:56
  Speaker 6: or there's something really wrong with you. You saying all
• 57:01
  Speaker 6: this for it's true, and children were used for that.
• 57:05
  Speaker 6: And in fact, at one point my name got mentioned,
• 57:10
  Speaker 6: and the only reason it wasn't me was because my
• 57:15
  Speaker 6: father decided that he would lose too much money if
• 57:22
  Speaker 6: I was unlived. So who had that conversation with a grandmaster?
• 57:26
  Speaker 5: And do you remember like the worst of what you
• 57:30
  Speaker 5: saw happen to other children that you were in there?
• 57:32
  Speaker 6: Oh, I was someone a child that I knew, a
• 57:35
  Speaker 6: little boy here, so he was chosen and that was yeah,
• 57:40
  Speaker 6: not good, that was terrible. He watched Well, you have
• 57:44
  Speaker 6: no choice. But prior to all of that, the animal
• 57:51
  Speaker 6: slayings and killings and using of all of that their
• 57:56
  Speaker 6: organs and things. It's a whole systemic process, ritual, ritual stuff.
• 58:05
  Speaker 6: But the you know, to serve your audience best, it's
• 58:10
  Speaker 6: just best to know it starts at the beginning. Worth
• 58:16
  Speaker 6: a very small animal and leads its way out to Yeah,
• 58:22
  Speaker 6: real children and adults have been known to as well,
• 58:27
  Speaker 6: but there's just something very demonic and evil about it.
• 58:32
  Speaker 6: And I know people will switch off at this point
• 58:36
  Speaker 6: and think, no, no, no, she's.
• 58:38
  Speaker 5: Full of Yeah, no, I want to I want to
• 58:41
  Speaker 5: be honest. No, And I appreciate that, and I want
• 58:43
  Speaker 5: to destigmatize a lot of this for people, and I
• 58:45
  Speaker 5: want to help them understand how you know, how you
• 58:50
  Speaker 5: survived and how you mentally got through this, Like do
• 58:53
  Speaker 5: you recall how you were able to emotionally recover from
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: seeing something like that? Because it can't be understated the
• 59:06
  Speaker 5: impact that would have had. So could you maybe talk
• 59:08
  Speaker 5: us through like kind of what you saw and how
• 59:11
  Speaker 5: you emotionally recovered from seeing something that a human being
• 59:14
  Speaker 5: should never have to see.
• 59:15
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well what you do remember? I then had I
• 59:19
  Speaker 6: had the guilt because it wasn't me. It happened to
• 59:23
  Speaker 6: someone because they didn't choose me, and it was meant
• 59:26
  Speaker 6: to be me. So I had to carry that for years,
• 59:30
  Speaker 6: and I think this self hatred and self lithing was
• 59:34
  Speaker 6: part of that. But I also think I had deep
• 59:39
  Speaker 6: within me. I don't know where I got it from,
• 59:42
  Speaker 6: but from a very small age, I would always look
• 59:46
  Speaker 6: out at the sky and see the light. And as
• 59:49
  Speaker 6: small children do, they lie on their backs on the
• 59:52
  Speaker 6: grass during the day and they watch the clouds move
• 59:54
  Speaker 6: and watch the shapes that the clouds make, and we
• 59:57
  Speaker 6: know they're always changing. But I used to see something
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 6: thing in the sky. I'd see it in the sky
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 6: during the day, and i'd see it in the sky
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 6: at night. So what that meant for me was that
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 6: I always had something else to focus on. But I'm
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 6: so grateful because I also had from a young age
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 6: little angels around me, and I'd sense this little movement
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 6: because I didn't actually have any safe adults in my life,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 6: so having what I could see we call it imaginary
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 6: friends now for little ones. But I had little angels,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 6: and as the trauma and the abuse grew and grew
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 6: and grew, and I was never safe, I really learned
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 6: to go in and try and connect with them. Some
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 6: days I couldn't. I couldn't see how I could get
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 6: through the day, and some hours I didn't see how
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 6: I get through. Some minutes I didn't. But I just
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 6: knew if I could keep just putting one in front
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 6: of the other, one breath at a time. I'd get
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 6: there and it helped me. But that leads me then
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 6: into school. Yes, please, because school was my one safe place.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 6: No one was after me, no one can make it.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 6: I couldn't wait to get to school. I hated leaving
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 6: school and fat at the end of the school day.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 6: I would hide in the grounds, to the point where
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 6: the nuns and the teachers got so used to it
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 6: they would just be combing the area because they knew
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 6: I'd be hiding.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 5: You know, I think you're going to resonate with this
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 5: one hundred percent, And I've said this to a lot
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 5: of people. One of the worst things about the COVID
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 5: lockdowns in my opinion, and I think you know where
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 5: I'm going with this. Some Victoria was the worst, and
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 5: I could talk about this for ages. I think there's
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 5: a special place in hell for that premiere. But obviously
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 5: he was a privileged man who'd never been through like
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 5: child abuse or trauma, or domestic violence or anything. But
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 5: the amount of children who he trapped in homes where
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 5: their only safe space was school, I cannot imagine what
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 5: those children went through, because imagine if your only safe place,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 5: which was school, was taken away and you had to
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 5: be in that home more. Did you think about that
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 5: when that was happy? Yeah, of course, yeah, that's horrific.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 6: But you know, and people often askol, aren't you annoyed
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 6: with the teachers? Not at all. They didn't have any training.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 6: They did the best they could with what they knew.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 6: But that's why that book you and I were talking
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 6: about earlier keeping kids safe is so important because teachers
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 6: are now, you know, moving quickly into the arena of
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 6: needing to have this information to help keep kids safe.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 6: So what I would do, Liam, if I may share,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 6: was I'd get to school and I would be basically starving.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 6: So my father decided he could make more money out
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 6: of me if I was very thin and very underweight,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 6: so I wouldn't be fed a lot of food. You
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 6: could see on my ribs of a very very very
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 6: thin child. So I'd get to school, be in a classroom,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 6: and because I was safe, I could let go, which
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 6: meant my behavior was out of control. I was always
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 6: attention seeking, I was always naughty, I was always in trouble,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 6: and I was doing it for one reason and one
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 6: reason only. Will you look at me, will you see me?
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 6: Will you help me, Will you save me? Will you
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 6: rescue me? And no one ever did.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 5: So thank you for sharing that, because yeah, I know
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 5: a lot about that and an important topic school is
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 5: some kids like only happy place. So okay, so we're
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 5: going to go back. So you had to be left
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 5: with your father and your brother, both psychopaths, both predators,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 5: both pedophiles. Yeah, sent from the devil. And so we're
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 5: now talking into your young adolescence or not even adolescence,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 5: really twelve years old when you'd experience the trafficking to
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 5: some of these high profile groups that people wouldn't really
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 5: even think engage in this sort of behavior. You know,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 5: you'd witness things happen to other children in that environment.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 5: Do you remember from the age of because I assume
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 5: that would have been around twelve, So we're getting now
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 5: more towards you know, the ages of thirteen. And you
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 5: know you mentioned there were other people involved that viewers
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 5: might not think would even engage in this. Do you
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 5: remember kind of was there an escalation after that? You
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 5: did it continuously get worse after that point?
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 6: Yeah? I think. So what might be useful for the
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 6: audience to know is that the eighteen months, which is
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 6: what that Memohile on Angel's Wings is based on was
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 6: the worst time of my life and from eleven to
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 6: twelve and a half when I got left in the
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 6: family home with those two sociopaths, and at the age
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 6: of twelve and a half, I think it's why I'm
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 6: alive today. To be honest, school had a half day.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 6: My father must not have known that as I came
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 6: home at lunchtime and I could hear laughing down the hallway,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 6: and it was a woman's voice, and I thought, what's that?
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 6: And I walked and there's my father in bed with
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 6: a woman. And I just panicked and ran, and I
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 6: ran to my mother's house. And the reason I was
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 6: so traumatized by that was because I'd been led to believe,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 6: in amongst all of the horror, that I was my
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 6: father's mistress, that I was his wife, that I was
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 6: the one that would sleep with him at night, and
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 6: in effect, you know, I was his partner. So to
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 6: see this felt like a betrayal because on the one hand,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 6: we've got this man who's happy to sell me, lease me,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 6: rent me out, but on the other he also wanted
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 6: me with him and sleeping with him. So can you
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 6: imagine the confusion when as a twelve year I didn't
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 6: have the cognition to understand what was going on. So
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 6: turned and ram ran up to my mother's house, which
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 6: is about five kilometers away, and I was sobbing and
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 6: couldn't breathe and everything. And she said, what's wrong, what's wrong,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 6: which was never asked. I said, he's in bed with someone.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 6: He's in bed with someone, and I thought that job
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 6: was mine twelve and a half.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 5: What did she say to that?
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 6: Right? So she rang, She ignored that little last but
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 6: of course, how could you leave me in the house
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 6: to start with? Anyway, she rang. The local priest escalated
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 6: it and got hold of the archbishop of the diocese
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 6: of Auckland, and he said to her, apparently, get her
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 6: out of the house. It's not right for her to
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 6: be there with an adulterer.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 5: What a comments on the views of the society that
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 5: you're in at the time.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 6: So okay to be trafficked, abused, terrorized, tortured, starved, beaten,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 6: that's all okay, but not okay to be living in
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 6: the home of an adulterer.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 5: This priest wasn't Was he also involved with this or no?
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 6: But that was the canon laws back in the day,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 6: you see. So anyway, so she decided, okay, well I
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 6: better follow what the church says. So came and took
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 6: me down the next day and said, we've got to
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 6: get your stuff out. I'm not coming in with you.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 6: You need to tell your father yourself. He was the biggest,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 6: scariest monster in my life, and I had to face
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 6: him alone, and so didn't want to be there anymore.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 6: That was one of the hardest things I've ever done.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 6: At the age of thirteen, twelve and a half. Now
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 6: did that conversation go. He was furious and she wouldn't
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 6: get out of the car and come in with me,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 6: so I had to face him alone. But I got out.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 6: She drove me out the road and I started crying.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 6: I was loving. I said, yeah, I'm so excited, mommy,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 6: that's so good, blah mama, And she said, I don't
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 6: know what you're so excited about. You'll be going back
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 6: every second weekend, can I tell you? And people struggle
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 6: with this. That was worse for me than having to
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 6: stay in the house with him, because for twelve out
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 6: of fourteen days apart from school holidays, which was half
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 6: each custody each twelve out of fourteen days I was safe.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 6: But then from someway deep inside I had to find
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 6: the courage and the resilience to try and manage what
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 6: he would do to me for those two days. Because
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 6: you can imagine the work I had to do.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 5: Really. Yeah, So we're up to the because I also
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 5: like split these into sort of chapters. So we're at
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 5: the chapter where you confronted your your father and you
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 5: were able to get out of the house thinking it
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 5: was going to be this great thing, and then you know,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 5: sadly you had to go back there was it once
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 5: a fortnite, once.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 6: Once yea, every second week and half of school holidays.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 6: Oh Jesus, good courage in the oh. Just it deflates
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 6: my whole body thinking about what I had to do
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 6: to try and manage it. Because the child that left
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 6: for school on the Friday A morning from my mother's house,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 6: it was never the child that returned on the Sunday afternoon.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 5: Do you think she didn't know or didn't care?
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 6: I think it's you see she and we haven't talked
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 6: about her, but to me, she was quite a narcissist.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 6: It was all about her dot com and I was
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 6: just in the way and how you could feed a
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 6: child to a lion like that.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's almost like was it ignorance or was it
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 5: like you know, was it an intentional knowing what was
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 5: going to happen? I just don't care sort of thing.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 6: Ye, Look, I don't know. The best case scenario is
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 6: she was so caught up in herself she didn't see
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 6: this signs or didn't know how to deal with them.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 6: The worst case scenario is she her reason for leaving
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 6: my father was he's too angry and had to live
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 6: with I couldn't take it anymore. And yet she left
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 6: a baby there.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that doesn't make any sense to me.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 6: But anyway, So what I had to find, no child
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 6: you'd eve have to find, had to dig very very deep.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 5: And when you say I had to find the.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 6: Courage to try and manage because he was angry because
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 6: this cash care had gone, I'd gone.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 5: So you so you described this. So did it even escalate?
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 5: Did it escalate again at this point?
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 6: Yes, because he was so very angry that the physical
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 6: abuse that you know, that got worse for me and
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 6: the psychological torture was worse.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 5: Could you talk people through what that looked like because
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 5: there's going to be people who will hear those words,
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 5: but they don't really understand what it means, okay in practice.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 6: Okay, So the physical abuse he might have just clipped
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 6: me around the air or kicked me or dragged me
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 6: by the hair kind of now turned into shoving me
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 6: up against a wall and stranger stranger trying to strangulate me,
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 6: and you know, things like using objects to hurt me.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 6: You know, my brother even got involved and we had
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 6: a creak at the bottom of the property, would try
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 6: and drown me on the creek, that sort of thing.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 6: So yeah, it just pretty pretty physically angry stuff. So
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 6: it escalated because it could, and because he wasn't, of
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 6: course a woman in the house or another safe adult
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 6: in the house. Not that I ever say my mother
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 6: was safe, because she was either if she was there,
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 6: she wasn't really wasn't interested, and she wasn't there, Well,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 6: that didn't make any difference. So but that got worse,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 6: and I think the psychological torture because I did to leave,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 6: and of course when I had gone and gone from
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 6: having twelve days there and two days at my mother's
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 6: to two days there and twelve days at my mother's
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 6: Then if you think about it, the work that needed
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 6: to be done at the family home had to be
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 6: done by my brother. So not only did I have
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 6: my father furious that I dared to leave, but I
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 6: had my brother as well. And yeah, it was just
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 6: pretty horrendous for me.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 5: Did the trafficking stuff still happened at that point?
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 6: Ye? That never ended till I was sixteen, and I
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 6: didn't go back.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 5: Do you recall it? Was it a different was it
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 5: a different type of instance every weekend or was it
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 5: like her as.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 6: Much as he could, as much as he could, because
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 6: you know, we'd gone from being able to perform anytime
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 6: he wanted me to to only every second weekend or
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 6: if it was school holidays more during that time, So
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 6: I was pretty busy.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 5: Those And are we talking about like was this at
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 5: these clubs or is this within the house?
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 6: Yeah? So sometimes at the nightclub and sometimes at his home,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 6: and sometimes at my grandmother's home. But look, the whole
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 6: thing just went on and on and on. And all
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 6: I know, which might sound bizarre, is that I was
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 6: really grateful for the drugs because then I wasn't present.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 6: It means I could just be in a little bubble
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 6: while it was all going on.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 5: Was there ever an instance like where you were in
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 5: a situation and there was like anyone who would kind
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 5: of look at what you were involved with and try
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 5: and help.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 6: Ever, never, there was one occasion when one of his
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 6: pedophile mates turned up and walked into the house, and
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 6: I must have just looked exhausted or broken or something,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 6: and he said are you okay. He made sure my
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 6: father wasn't in the room, and he said are you okay?
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 6: And I said yeah, because he wasn't going to help me.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 6: But liam when my father had people come to the
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 6: home and he would traffic me to them, they would
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 6: pay money to hurt me and abuse me. There would
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 6: be occasion where I could leave the main living area
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 6: once it was done, and I would often think of
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 6: a way I could escape, and so I would put
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 6: myself in the boot of one of the cars in
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 6: the driveway, thinking if I can get driven out of here,
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 6: the I might have a chance at a different life,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 6: like I might be free, I might be safe, And
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 6: that's how a child thinks. Yeah, so I would. I
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 6: did it several times. A different car got driven to
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 6: wherever these people live. No idea I was in the car,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 6: and then once we got to the home, I could
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 6: get out of the boot or they would discover me.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 6: And it may not surprise you, but it used to
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 6: surprise me as a child. That would take me straight
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 6: back to him in the morning. But I had this
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 6: magical thinking children do, which is, oh, they'll keep me.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 6: They might not hurt me as much. I might be
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 6: safe to live there.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 5: And what would happen when you'd come back beating?
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 6: The beating?
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 4: Really? Yeah?
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 5: Is there any particular injuries? It stuck with you?
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 6: Well?
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: I remember.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 6: I remember one time and my father must have been
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 6: off his face, still on drugs or something, and he
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 6: tried to run me over in the car in the
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 6: driveway and he that, you know, he got very close,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 6: and I think I wet myself. I was just lying
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 6: there petrified, and he was just name calling, so angrief,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 6: so vitriolic, and he made me lie out there all night.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 6: So that was an occasion where someone found me that
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 6: night back at their home and brought me back. But
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 6: I remember lying there. I was shivering with cold. I
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 6: was terrified. He didn't quite get to me with the
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 6: card tied, but he nearly did, and he went to bed,
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 6: and when he came out the next day, he was
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 6: screaming at me, what do you think you're even doing
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 6: out here? Why are you here? Get back inside, blah
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 6: blah blah, completely forgetting that he'd put me there. Think
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 6: the barbituates he was taking. Really, and this is this
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 6: is real evil, sociopathic stuff.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 5: This is the worst of the worst. I've read into
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 5: a lot of this stuff, and it's it is hard
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 5: for the human mind, like you know, get around that.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 6: But I made it the show.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 5: Were there any lads did you know about, like, have
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 5: any broken injuries it caused you to go to the
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 5: hospital or.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 6: No, because he made sure that if I did need
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 6: me to call attention, it was only ever that doctor
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 6: that would sometimes be called to the home or my
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 6: grandmother's zone.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 5: Right, and they were obviously both in on this hole. Okay,
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 5: So so you you have to go back to this
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 5: environment of hell for several more years. And it's just
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 5: shocking that there was another one human being that would
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 5: like show any type of well And.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 6: It's interesting you say that because I have cut you off.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 5: No, No, this is your this is your show. I'm
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 5: just here to watch. Ask a couple of questions here
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 5: and there.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think you know. It was a culture of
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 6: a man's home is his kingdom, he is in charge
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 6: of it, do not interfere. It was only in the
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 6: late eighties that police the law changed and police could
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 6: get involved in domestic disputes. Prior to the late eighties
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 6: in New Zealand, if police were called to a home
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 6: for domestic violence, they couldn't do anything. They couldn't take action.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 6: Now they came, so he could basically do what he liked.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 6: No one would have believed me because what I'm describing
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 6: to you is so bizarre. It's when I say it's
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 6: not just child sexual abuse. That's bad enough. No, just
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 6: respect to any amazing survivors watching. I'm just talking about
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 6: I had the whole range of I'm so lucky to
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 6: be alive. I'm very lucky to be alive.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 5: I agree. Well, you're on the right podcast because it
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 5: is called the Unbreakable Podcast, and here you are. It's
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 5: funny because I'm trying to think about a lot of
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 5: these things. And I did a podcast with a really
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 5: really nice guy's good friend. His name is Jean Deal,
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 5: and he was the head of security for Puff Daddy,
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 5: who is God willing will die in prison, hopefully a
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 5: painful death. But I was trying to get my head
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 5: around a lot of stuff that he would do to people.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 5: And I think he probably may fall into that psychopathic category.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 5: Who knows, but his former bodyguard hates him. By the way,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 5: he said something to me really interesting, and it's along
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 5: the topics of when I asked you, like, did anyone
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 5: help any And I said to Jane, I said, did
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 5: he ever do this stuff in front of you? And
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 5: he said no, Like I wonder why? And he goes, well, guys,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 5: I've come to learn people who commit crimes commit crimes
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 5: around other people who commit crimes, meaning that they're more
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 5: likely to do it around other people who are condoning
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 5: and who would also do it, you know what I mean. Like,
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 5: he's not going to do it in a shopping center
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 5: full of people. He's not going to do it in
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 5: front of a you know, like a room full of
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 5: police officers. Like it seems that there's a theme of
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 5: like they're only doing this stuff around their own evil
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 5: type of people. And you know, I think that explains
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 5: a lot of what you were exposed to, because it
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 5: sounds like it was just room after room of just demons.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and you know, at the end of the day,
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 6: no one would believe even today, and these steps came
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 6: from Australia actually late last year, oh sorry, late twenty
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 6: twenty three. If you started child and an adult together
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 6: in front of other adults and the child's head that
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 6: I'm being abused. Unfortunately, sixty six percent of adults still
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 6: believe in adult over a child. So my question is
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 6: what chance do these children have, which is why we've
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 6: got the hand sign and we've got the advocacy and
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 6: tools for kids and.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 5: Appearance, which we're going to get into because I think
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 5: that's a really good you know, like it's it's it's
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 5: amazing how you've turned all of this into almost like
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 5: a piece of machinery now that helps hundreds and thousands
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 5: of other children. So okay, so there's there's the weekends
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 5: of horror that you have to go through and you know, yeah,
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 5: it's hard to get your head around that. So there
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 5: was a period then you know, you've gone through all
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 5: of this, and there was a point at which you
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 5: finally got to be in a way liberated from this horror.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 5: Do you recall that time and do you want to
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 5: talk us or take us through how that felt and
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 5: how that happened.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so my parents had decided, Well, this is the story.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 6: I was told that on the day at ten sixteen,
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 6: I could decide where I wanted to live and with
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 6: which parent. So I didn't actually want to live with either,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 6: but I could choose whether I ever went and saw
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 6: my father again, so I chose not to. Now I
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 6: would see him over the years at family events like
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 6: funerals and birthday some weddings sort of thing. Not often,
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 6: but I always always had a deep visceral reaction, like
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 6: a body response to seeing him, and I would just
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 6: want to hide him. What were the four f's again,
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 6: so PTSD responses are I called him the four fs? Fight? Yeah, fly, freeze,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 6: and fawn and fauners. I'll be agreeable. I'll make you
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 6: feel so comfortable that you will like me, which means
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 6: you won't want to hurt me. So that's the fauna.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 5: And when you would see him at these events, which
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 5: of those would you go into.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 6: I would try and hide, so I would kind of
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 6: freeze and then just try and move away.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 5: That's the flight as well.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and that's a really good point you raise, Actually
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 6: because people say, well, you only do one or two
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 6: predominantly typically years, but survivors can use all four, and
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 6: we will. It depends on the situation we're in. So yes,
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 6: I did have to see him, but he could never
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 6: traffic me again, he could never sexually abuse me again.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 6: And I'm really proud that I could stand strong on that.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 6: But my life after that was a train wreck because
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 6: although it was one of the heaviest days in my life,
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 6: don't get me wrong, Yeah, I was so damaged. I'd
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 6: had so much happen to me. I was a reg
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 6: you know, drank too much, slept with too many people,
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 6: had an eating disorder, was kind of out of control
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 6: with behavior and people and situations of course, all perfectly normal,
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 6: but I was safe, So I think it really wasn't
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 6: until I was a parent myself that most of what
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 6: I recovered as memories came to the fore. But make
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 6: no mistake, when I was thirteen, I told a friend
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 6: what was happening. She thought I was making it up,
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 6: but she believed me as well. And when I was nineteen,
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 6: I told another friend. So you know, there is ebalance.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 6: I did speak to people.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 5: So two things. How many children did you go and
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 5: to have how old are though?
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 6: So H thirty nearly thirty seven and thirty.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 5: Four similar ages to me, boys or girls one of each.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 5: One of H is the oldest, a boy ago and
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 5: then a boy and you guys, I'm still keeping talk.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 6: Sure, Oh yeah, it's awesome. I'm kind of the in
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 6: your face mom. Yeah, complete opposite.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 5: Oh, they would have been lucky to be protected by you.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 6: Then I say, the most dangerous animal in the world
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 6: is lying.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 5: He's actually probably for good reason.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 6: Yeah, don't touch my babies.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: So of course you know I gotta cut in right
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: here because absolutely don't come after my baby. But I
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: mean to that point. I will say something that crossed
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: my mind just real quick the.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: Other day, actually, like yesterday.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: There is certain things that I think about as someone
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: who looks into like this, and it's hard to be
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: a mom being someone who looks into this stuff. And
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: it's not just about the SRA. It's about the trauma.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: It's about everything. And there are little traumas that we
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: inflict on our kids. And trust me, I would never
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: ever do it on purpose, but I think things are
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: set up and pushed in our face. To think that
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: as a loving parent, you're doing something beneficial for your child,
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: even though it goes against all of your instincts, all
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: of your better intuition. Everything in you screams, this is
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: not good for my child, but they tell us that
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: it's good for our childs, and we believe it's good
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: for our child, so we do it.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: Anyways.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, injections are one of those things. But I want
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: to be a little bit more specific. I don't want
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: to step on any toes or anything if you decided
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: to do this, but it's just honesty hour right now,
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: and if it makes you uncomfortable, you might want to
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: check yourself before you wreck yourself. Because these are my
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: personal thoughts, feelings, opinions. If you disagree, that's fine. We
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: can still live in the world together and we can
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: still be friends. Sleep training is trauma to your child.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: Don't do it.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know why in the world we as a
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: society have been talked into thinking that that.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: Is okay to do to your child. Cry it out.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: If you look into it for two seconds, you will
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: find that the original sleep training schedule was developed by
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: a rock A. Feller funded and backed, who wrote this
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: entire manual on how You're supposed to be sleep training
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: your infant, Get them out of your bed, get them
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: as far away from you as possible, let them cry
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: until they learn how to self soothe themselves to sleep.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: Babies and infants don't have a self soothing fucking switch
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: that flips on. What they're doing is passing out from trauma.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: So when you remove that baby from your body, put
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: them in a room down the hall with the door
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: closed and all the lights off, completely alone, to scream
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: at the top of their lungs for help until they
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: pass out from trauma. That is not them soothing themselves
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: to sleep. That is a rock a feller and backed
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: physician who was told and actually for people who even
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: give a shit. In that same manual, where it talks
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: about removing the child from your body, putting them as
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: far away from you as possible in a dark, fucking
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: scary ass environment to cry themselves into coma, basically it
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: also says you shouldn't kiss your children. You especially shouldn't
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: kiss your baby if you feel inclined that you have
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: to only one a day. And this is the manual,
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: and it's been modified a little bit to be more
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: digestible to the modern mom but the original sleep training
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: manual was by a rock a Feller funded physician and instinctually,
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: from the beginning of time, ancient Egyptians, Mesopotamia, Garden of Eden,
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: our ancestors slept with their babies until they were old
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: enough to start fucking walking around and doing whatever and
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: deciding where it was that they wanted to sleep, and
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: they slept in family units. Everything inside of me instinctually says,
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: I need my baby to be in my arms or
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: as close to me as possible throughout the day. African women,
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: you can look it up.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: They still do this.
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: They wear their babies. It's called baby wearing. And I
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: did it and I continued to do it. They didn't
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: have tummy time on the floor at two months old
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: where they were just left by themselves. They didn't sleep train.
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: They don't take naps fucking fifty yards down the hallway
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: alone in a black room with blackout curtains to potentially
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: smother xyz traumatize themselves into a sleep.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: You wear your baby on your body.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: Their nervous system is completely underdeveloped, and it is until
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: they're like three years old. So temper tantrums, nap times, bedtimes,
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: any any anything, that a baby needs comes from the
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: mother's body. Nervous system regulation, nap time, bedtime, the regulation
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: of their daytime and nighttime, their whatever, the rhythms of
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: when a baby becomes sleep, because they have no conception
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: of daytime and nighttime. That all comes from their mother's body.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: And you don't even have to be breastfeeding. Instinctually, you're
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: as a mother. You just know this, and as a mother,
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: it fuels right, and it feels natural to me to
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: have my baby be on my body or near me
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: at all times. That being said, I grew up in
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: the nineties. My sister grew up seventies. I want to
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: say into the eighties obviously, but you ever check out
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: car seats what they looked like in the seventies, eighties, nineties.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: I didn't wear a seat belt until I was almost
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: in high school. There were times I rode on the
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: hood of the car to the end of the block,
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: and then I'd get in the front seat, or I'd
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: get in the back seat and I'd lay at the
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: top of the back seat where you know, the speakers
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: and shit are in the window. I would lay like
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: a burrito up in that area and chill all the
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: way to the Dollar Store and back. My mom, no
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 2: fucks given, didn't care if I wore seat belt, didn't
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: care about any of that stuff. The highchairs and car
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: seats from the seven these look like little medieval torture devices.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: They got bars and they're all metal, and they are
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: basically no safety to be had there.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: My baby hates, and I mean hates.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 6: His car seat.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, didn't want to be in it.
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: For thirty seconds. The second I removed him from me
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: and put him in the car seat, he starts screaming.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: And it's not because well, he's so used to being
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: on you that he plays in the floor by himself
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: for long periods of time. We don't have separation anxiety
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: or anything like that. It's just he doesn't like to
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: be in his car seat. And I can't blame him.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: He's backwards, he's got fucking straps all over him. He
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: might have to burp or fart, and he can't because
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: he's in this weird position in the car seat where
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: he's all leaned back and strapped down and shit backwards.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: He don't like it, and I don't blame him, But
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: why it's these little traumas I drove from point A
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: to point B wherever I was yesterday, We'll just say
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: I went to this store, because I did go to
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: the store, but it was a twenty minute drive from
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: where I was back home.
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: Twenty minutes. The car ride felt like it was four
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: hours the way.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: He was screaming and screaming and screaming, and you know
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: this is these are the little traumas. Because I have
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: a mirror that reflects him into my rearview mirror, so
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: I can see what he's doing. And he was crying
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: so hard and for so long in screaming so loud
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: that he started doing one of those and his little
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: head was shaken from crying. And I wanted to pull
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: the car over and first stab myself in the face
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: and then.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: Take care of my baby.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: But it's these little things, and you would be like, oh,
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: as a mom, you get so frustrated. It's like, just
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: stop crying. But I don't get mad at him. I
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: get mad at society. Why on earth can't I just
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: put my baby in my lap and drive him home
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: if he's acting like that, Because what if you get
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: in a car accident, or what if it I didn't
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: wear a seat belt, all of my childhood. Okay, if
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: something would happened, that means whoops, I fucked up. Okay,
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: but we got our kids in the back seat where
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: we can't even see him strapped in a chair backwards,
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: and it's like, when did this?
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: Why did we do this stuff? And I got to
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: go to the store.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's just life.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: I gotta go to the store.
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: He don't want this, And as a mother, it is
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: so gross to me that I gotta listen to him
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 2: screaming in the backseat because all he wants is to
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 2: be able to see me, to hear me, and not
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: be backwards strapped.
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: Into a chair. It's like, why do we do these things?
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: These are little traumas, sleep training, car seats, like none
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: of these things existed for ancestral parenting, and we are
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: victims of it because it's better for them. Ignore all
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: of your instincts, and even though it makes you want
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: to throw up strapping your baby in this chair and
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: driving them twenty minutes with them screaming the entire time,
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: it's good for them because what if? And sorry, but
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: God does not give you a spirit of fear. This
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: whole fear thing about what if? Fuck you guys, because
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: I know instinctually my baby doesn't need to be strapped
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: in a chair screaming his head off for twenty minutes.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: Because maybe.
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: Something might happen where I get in a car accident.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: Maybe something might happen where I get in a car
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: accident and he's in his chair, and it makes it
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: worse because he's backwards strapped down to this fucking heavy ass. Listen,
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 2: little traumas that are made to appear to us as
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: helpful to our children. Follow your intuition.
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: What does this have to do with SRA?
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: Pretty much nothing, But I'm just saying it as the
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: point of view of.
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: We even have been conditioned.
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: And we're not even involved in generational Satanism at least
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: I'm speaking for myself. I don't come from generational Satanism,
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: but it's become so normalized these little traumas pop cultural
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: standards for this is how you should parent.
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: Now, don't do this, but do.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: This, and da dad da da da da instincts, people instincts,
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: What does your body and your heart say, Lock my
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: baby in a room fucking half a mile down the
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: hallway with blackout curtains, and by the way, this whole
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: napping thing to me is so confusing, Like I get it.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: There are some older people that listen to my show.
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: There are some younger people that listen to my show.
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: Do you remember, nineties kids? Do you remember your mom
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: taking you aside for forty five to an hour in
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: a dark, blacked out room with.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: The noise machine.
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: And all this stuff to take a nap? Do you
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: nineties kids? Do you remember your mom's doing this stuff?
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: I had to catch some z's on the go. We
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: were on our way to the store. You better get
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: some z's in the car. Okay, we're on our way
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 2: doing this, on our way doing that. Guess you're just
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: gonna be tired. What is all this with the special napping?
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: He naps.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: My baby naps on me on my terms. If he's
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: fucking sleepy, he can nap on my body while I'm
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: doing dishes, laundry, cleaning the house. He can sleep in
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: his car seat. I know it's unheard of, but he
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: will get so tired that he does. He's done it
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: three times now. But why are parents doing this with
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: the naps? If I was tired, sometimes my mom would say,
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: don't you dare fall asleep because then you won't go
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 2: to bed tonight. And I'm not saying that that was right.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying that's how her mindset was. We ain't
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: doing no special naps up in this bitch. We ain't
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: blacking out rooms and doing sound machines and stuff. Listen,
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: I have a sound machine. I play it at night
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: for him just to kind of relax his body and
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: mind and mine so we can rest.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: I ain't doing.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: Cryet out naps at scheduled times during the day like
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: he's in.
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: A retard home.
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: I know people who do this every day at precisely
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: two o seven. They nap with a blackout curtain and
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: a sound machine, and nobody can speak or talk, or
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: run the vacuum or do laundry or any normal human
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 2: behavior during those forty five minutes because they need to nap.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: And then you start to realize this kid thinks the
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: world revolves around them. I wonder why, because we stop
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 2: life for forty five minutes, multiple times a day for
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: this kid to have a blackout experience crying himself to sleep,
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: and then all the weird and it's like, maybe the
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: kid thinks the world revolves around them because you're literally
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: stopping life for these weird.
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: Things to happen.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: He naps. My baby naps, Okay, it's very integral for
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: their growth and development. He naps on me on my
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: body for about forty five minutes to an hour every couple.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: Hours while I do other stuff.
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: My life continues, okay, And he's not gonna nap as
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: much in the coming months, years, whatever, so he needs
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 2: to get used to. When I'm tired, I can you know, daylight?
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: Hi, how are you?
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: It's two in the afternoon. Maybe I sit on the
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: couch and, you know, just lay my head over on
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: a pillow and nap for a minute while Mom's doing dishes,
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 2: Like this is how I grew up.
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, we don't.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: We didn't have blackout sessions with the sound and the
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: noise cancelation and all the weird We didn't do it.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 2: It's like an MK monarch thing.
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: It's weird to me.
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: It's like a Stranger thing's astral projection session with the
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: blackout tint and the noise deprivation and the sound and
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: the site.
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: Why you doing that? Okay?
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: They literally do that and like programs where they traumatize
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: people and get them to go into the fucking beyond
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: and stuff. All right, but it's been marketed to us
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 2: that it is good for our children, that this is
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: something that we should be doing because it's good for them,
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: and if you're a good parent, you should inflict these
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: little traumas on them. In infancy, sleep train people are
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: sleep training infants. I don't get it. Like think back,
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: incestrally ancestrally hunters and gatherers weren't stopping in the middle
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: of the day to do a blackout nap session and
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: snack time and TV time on a military schedule. If
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 2: the baby's tired, he'll take a fucking nap. Okay, if
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: he's hungry, he'll let a motherfucker.
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: All right, natural, easy, soft, instinctive parenting.
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: What happened to that? What happened?
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: We've got codes and videos and all this stuff like
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: shoved in our face is what you should do?
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 6: This what you should do?
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 2: Why why I don't get it? I do get it
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: because it's a lot of programming from infancy. But anyways,
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 2: let's enjoy the rest of the video. Just how to
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 2: bust in real quick with some thoughts.
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 5: Oh that's that's good to hear, but I'm glad you
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 5: mentioned that because it's actually one of my questions. And
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 5: you notice I don't keep notes because I'm just kind
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 5: of it's better to just have it be a nice flow.
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 5: But this was one of the things I wanted to
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 5: ask because I do know that for most survivors, male
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 5: and female, a lot of what gets repressed to survive
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 5: comes back when they have their first child. Yes, can
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 5: you talk us through, because I can't think you've anyone
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 5: who's had more to suppress, and I can't imagine how
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 5: that would have been. Would you like to talk us
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 5: through how that experience was for you, and you know,
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 5: to the extent you're comfortable, like what you went through
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 5: processing what came up when you had your children?
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 6: Yeah, of course, good and great question, and you're one
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 6: hundred percent right. So for me, having my daughter turn
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 6: four was very, very traumatic for me, really yeah, and
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 6: that was when most of it hit me. And of
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 6: course I didn't know what you know at the time
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 6: that there is a direct link, and most survivors will
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 6: tell you this. So what I had to do was
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 6: try and parent the best I could, but realize that
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 6: there was something terrifying coming to me and emerging to
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 6: me to the point where I didn't want to go
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 6: to bed at night, want to go to sleep, because
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 6: I'd get woken with these It felt like a tsunami
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 6: almost of memories, and I think, no, no, no, what's
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 6: going on? And lots of visceral lots of body sensations, taste,
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 6: smell like experiential memories recall because the body never forgets.
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 6: And there's a book written about that, very well known book,
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 6: the body never forgets. And so I would be waking
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 6: up during the night absolutely terrified, and so I started going.
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 6: I went to my mother first, actually and said, look, oh,
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 6: you know, my father's abused me. And she went this
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 6: was her response, you have no right to speak of
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 6: this to anyone again. Now, I'm sorry as a parent
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 6: and as parents watch really that your response, Well, I mean,
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 6: how do I say this.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 5: I only talk about my stuff to people like maybe
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 5: one day will But our families Irish Catholic, so you
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 5: could imagine that was the how it went back then,
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 5: and whenever anything would happen in that culture, it was
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 5: exactly the same. It's like, shut up, zip it up,
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 5: be quiet, nothing happened, move on with your life. And
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 5: for whatever reason. I don't know why. That was just
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 5: the culture that that was like normal to the to
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 5: the parents of that generation. Maybe not all of them,
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 5: but I do know that it's a sad reality that
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 5: that is what happened to a lot of people in
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 5: your generation. So she just basically just said to get
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 5: over it and move on with your life.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 6: Well, she was protecting herself.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 5: To keep in mind, she's ties in with the narcissism
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 5: as well.
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 6: So anyway, that is what we call the sycamoone. So
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 6: we're in a a beautiful, amazing male or female survivor
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 6: finds the courage to say the words I've been abused,
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 6: and you get a family member or someone that was
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 6: tasked with caring or protecting you come back at you
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 6: like that. That's a second wound. It makes sure we
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 6: never speak again. But she didn't win, did she.
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I was going to say, my god, you've turned
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 5: that one on it. So okay, So, so your daughter
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 5: is born and these these memories start coming back and
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 5: then you, which I do understand, is a common thing
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 5: that like I kind of know more about this.
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 6: Than you think, so I should be interviewing.
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 5: So so yeah, so, as I said, I'm aware that
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 5: this is it comes up when you have your first child,
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 5: and I am also aware that a typical response is
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 5: also to go to one of the PA and be like, look,
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 5: this is what happened. And I'm terribly sorry that that
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 5: was the response that you got. Sadly, it's not an
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 5: uncommon response to get at all. Taught me through how
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 5: did you process a lot of because a lot of
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 5: what would have come up for you would have been horrific.
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 5: Can you recall the types of things that were coming
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 5: up during that time.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 6: And just give you an insight and your amazing audience
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 6: and insight that very good.
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 5: Make fun of my haircuts sometimes, but they are right.
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 6: I've got a special love for these survivors though they're fantastic. Yes,
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 6: So what came up for me? And trigger warning? Please,
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 6: had I not been a parent, I would not have
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 6: chosen to be here. And the reason I say there
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 6: is because of the horror, as you've just cited, and
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 6: the deep and breadth of it all. So I didn't
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 6: want to remember there. It was horrible and I was
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 6: the adult, not even experiencing it but remembering it. So
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 6: can you imagine the fear as a child is terrible.
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 6: But I did have to process it because I was
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 6: a mum and what are we going to do as parents?
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 6: We're going to protect our babies or most healthy safe
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 6: mums and dads. Well, so I had to try and
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 6: make sense of it and process everything. But it wasn't
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 6: left there. So my mother decided not only could I
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 6: never speak of it again, she went to every family
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 6: member and extend a family member and shut them all
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 6: down one by one. So when I got the police
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 6: involved to do an investigation on this, there were many
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 6: people against my word. And it was only because I'm
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 6: a credible, truthful person that the police lot did it, investigated,
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 6: did the best they could, had seven detectives on it,
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 6: but just didn't have the burden of proof. So they
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 6: were pains to say, it's not that you're not believed,
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 6: it's more that we don't have the beden of proof
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 6: and if we put you on the steen, you're going
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 6: to be ripped apart.
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah that's yeah. I mean I'll tell you a story
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 5: off the podcast about that. But yeah, one of the
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 5: girls I know had to be protected from that as well,
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 5: because like we didn't want her to go on the
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 5: stand and get torn apart and I know how it goes,
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 5: and I kind of had to look at that situation say,
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 5: now she's not going on there because I'm not going
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 5: to have her get ripped apart. And yeah, so I'm
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 5: intimately familiar with that what you would have gone through there,
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 5: and it is horrific.
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 6: So look, can I just say, people you know will
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 6: often say to me and or club and police, why
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 6: couldn't they do more? You know what, I'm so grateful
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 6: to the New Zealand Police. They did what they could
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 6: with what they had at their disposal. Now does that
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 6: mean I'm not going to take it further and maybe
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 6: get a private investigator onto my brother. No, that's something
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 6: I'm very keen to do.
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 5: I can help with that. Yeah, I thought, let's talk
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 5: about there is one thing I know that I had
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 5: a question about, and maybe some of the audience will
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 5: bring it up, but it's kind of worth touching on
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 5: because if we think back to the story, right, there's
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 5: there's your father, there's your brother, there's the doctor, there's
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 5: your grandmother. There's the club that because you talk a
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 5: lot about that club that they used to take you to.
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 5: When I say a club, I don't mean a gang.
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 5: I mean like an actual nightclub. So of those, I mean,
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 5: I know that your father's gone, your grandmother's gone. The
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 5: club and the people that frequented that club, is there
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 5: any trace of any.
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 6: Of them or I think you Look, the problem was
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 6: back then there was only three nightclubs in k Rhad
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 6: are now Auckland Red Light District. And for those that
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 6: were the owners back then, they're not going to say, yeah,
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 6: I had a child least out of there who we
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 6: would make money out of being trafficked on our top
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 6: floor in the background.
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 5: But do you feel like surely there must have been
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 5: like workers or anything.
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 6: And look, this is this is why I want to
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 6: do my own investigating actually because it's it's I'd like
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 6: to see my brother and his friends being made to
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 6: I feel like the best accountable.
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I feel I feel like the best just
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 5: having seen a lot of this before. The best avenues
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 5: for justice are witnesses who can recall, you know, seeing
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 5: a person at a time and a place. And it
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 5: is unfortunate that a lot of this horrific stuff happened,
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 5: and a lot of these people were very evil, but
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 5: you know, sometimes you can get lucky and you might
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 5: find one good witness who does recall something, and that's
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 5: kind of the threads that you've got to pull.
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and we also have to remember. And I know
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 6: you gave me a lovely compliment.
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 5: Oh what was that on? Again? I say, whatever's on
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 5: my mind? So it must have been real.
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 6: Oh, I think, yeah, so you'll recall it, as I
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 6: say the following word. So this we're going back to
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 6: this now being fifty years old.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 5: Oh about you coming here, agent glowing with radiation. You
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 5: got the amazing energy in here. Can't imagine how beautiful
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 5: your children must be.
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 6: Yeah. But so it's a very old, old historical case.
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 6: And so a lot of the perpetrators, if they were
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 6: thirty years older than me, they're not alive anymore. It's
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 6: my point.
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 5: I see, is there no such thing? Because we had
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 5: a commission here in our country where they went like
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 5: right through everything, all the institutions, they pulled out anyone
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 5: with a pulse, like it was really in depth. I
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 5: assume that I don't have that.
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we just did a royal commission of inquiry and
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 6: to abuse and state here, but that doesn't include my case.
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 6: So yeah, look, I think there are potential evenues for
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 6: all of it to be investigated further. But that would
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 6: be me, me doing that, and that's fine, and that's
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 6: I'm happy to look at that. So I guess really
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 6: though out of all of this, believe it or not,
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 6: I just I really just want people to feel hope,
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 6: because these hope. If I can get through this, people
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 6: can get through this stuff too.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 5: You no, I couldn't agree with. And honestly, like I
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 5: think I'm the book you've written here keeping kids safe.
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 5: It's amazing how under resource this market is in terms
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 5: of educating adults on like what to look out for,
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 5: because you know, my family, we've had a lot of
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 5: this stuff, Like I I remember you're talking about you
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 5: go into the boot of a car, Like I had
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 5: a cousin who both her parents were drug addicts, and
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 5: she would have to find like a bus shelter to
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 5: sleep at, and sometimes like she would have to find
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 5: a car to break into to sleep into, you know.
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 5: So and yeah, and a lot of the themes that
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 5: people watching should know is that some of the recovery
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 5: processes that you're talking about how people deal with this.
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 5: It's not just child sexual abuse, also domestic violence, physical abuse,
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 5: verbal abuse. You know, a lot of those trauma responses
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 5: people still get and I think some people will get
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 5: it and won't understand what it is because there's not
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 5: enough education around it. So I think for you to
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 5: come out with this story really, really really will help
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 5: a lot of people to understand what they're feeling and
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 5: why they feel like that. Have you ever connected with
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 5: other survivors who have had a similar story or even
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 5: more so, like, sure, this is one in a million,
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 5: but have you ever connected with anyone from your local
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 5: area who experienced similar.
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 6: Across New Zealand and Australia and you know the world. Really,
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 6: Because hen In the Shame Back my charity, we have
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 6: a podcast and that's in ninety countries now, so.
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 5: Hand in the Shame Back the Foundation. Ye sure it
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 5: will be linking to buyer for that as well, thank
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 5: you so.
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 6: But that podcast is on YouTube and that's in ninety
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 6: countries and that's for survivors to share these stories. So
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 6: through that we get a lot.
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 5: Oh you host that yeah?
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 6: Really? Episode survivors are.
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 5: One hundred and forty no way, Yeah, you've interviewed one
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 5: hundred and forty survivors.
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think we walked that and like because obviously.
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 5: Your story is it's just there are no words to
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 5: really encapsulate how what you've gone through do you you
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 5: know is there and this will help the audience. Can
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 5: you recall or share any stories that would be even
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 5: remotely comparable to what you went through in terms of
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 5: you helping other survivors.
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah, look, I think two parts to that. Rachel Vaughan
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 6: in Australia, she is a survivor who's gone through a
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 6: lot of things as well, and not just the child
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 6: sexual abuse, but you know the Beaumont murders. Vaguely, yes,
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 6: maybe three children went missing in the sixties in Australia
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 6: on a beach. I'm just trying to think of the
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 6: name of but if you google it you'll see it.
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 6: And it was her father she believes was the one
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 6: who took them. And they had children living under their
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 6: house who were being who were there to be abused
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 6: and sacrificed. So she was pretty I can give you
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 6: her details because she is here in Australia, but the
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 6: point being she's someone who is trying to help survivors
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 6: as well. So across in the UK, we've got Maggie Oliver,
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 6: who's an advocate for sex trafficking and Annika Lucas. You
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 6: may have heard of who she's now in New York,
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 6: but she was traffic to the elite as well and
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 6: experience things. To be honest, I don't know that there's
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 6: many like me who have gone through what I have
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 6: and a are still alive or be healed enough to
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 6: give back, because it's the sort of traumaist.
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah, do you, because you really, to your credit, you're
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 5: so well composed at this point in life, and I'm
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 5: sure there were periods where it wasn't like this done.
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 5: I was about to say that it's like I called
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 5: the iceberg. People just see the tips. So what people
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 5: seeing is a tip of the iceberg here. But I'm
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 5: sure that there was decades of work that got you
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 5: to this point. So do you ever still have moments
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 5: that take you back? And you know, could you maybe
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 5: talk through when that happens and how you deal with
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 5: it and what it looks like.
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah. So, look, it's funny you say that because in
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 6: recent times I've had a few things triggering me and
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 6: I know it's coming because I'll get a feeling in
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 6: my body like, oh no, there's something coming, and lately
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 6: it's been about my brother and what he used to
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 6: do to me with his friends. But one trigger was
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 6: feeling I couldn't breathe and waking up typically about two
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 6: in the morning, and I feel something around my throat
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 6: and he's tied this kind of the old school Muslim
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 6: bag around.
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 2: But in the.
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 6: Parts of cats, like decomposed cats. I've got all this
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 6: stuff that I'm breathing in and being suffocated by. So
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 6: you know, I wake up to that, and how do
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 6: I know it's real because I'm feeling it and I'm
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 6: remembering it. So getting through that might mean waking my
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 6: partner and saying, can you just told me and tell
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 6: me I'm safe? Oh, tell me I'm safe.
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 5: How long have you been with him for.
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 6: Feeling new relationship about incredible dudes?
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 5: Ah, like a year?
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 6: No, probably about six months, but very very humble man,
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 6: very kind and supportive. But it's interesting because I never
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 6: wanted to have any more memories come. I feel like
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 6: I've enough. Would you agree?
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 5: Oh my god? I even like Gloria even hearing them
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 5: from It's like, I'm very cognizant that you know, I'm
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 5: just hearing these on a podcast and I will absorb
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 5: with them, and you know, trying to give it as
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 5: much attention and give this topic as much respect and
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 5: out of time as I can, and do it in
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 5: a way that serves justice to what you've been through.
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 5: But I'm also conscious this is just me sitting here
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 5: for a couple of hours absorbing, and I can't imagine
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 5: a lifetime of you know, having to go through this.
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 6: Well. Look, luckily they don't happen often, but when they
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 6: do the best advice I can give in survivors watching,
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 6: please do this. Don't try and block it, which I
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 6: was queen of stopping and blocking, but they just come
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 6: back thicker and faster and worse. So what I've learned
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 6: to do is breathe through it, allow myself to feel it,
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 6: try and have a safe person I can share it
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 6: with just to validate and vindicate, and then I can
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 6: move on. Because if it's rising in us and we
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 6: try and stop it, this is going to keep happening.
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 6: If we feel it coming and we say, okay, I
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 6: hate you, I kind of hate you, really, but I'm
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 6: not going to stop it, this starts to happen in
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 6: it tape us off.
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 5: We're going to conclude the podcast, and this is probably
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 5: one of the most important parts that I want to cover.
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 5: And this is something you speak very eloquently about and
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 5: that you know, I'm intimately familiar with and that a
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 5: lot of parents and a lot of people don't know about,
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 5: which is the steps that parents need to take to
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 5: protect children from a lot of the horrific things that
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 5: we've covered during the podcast, a lot of what's in
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 5: the book, and if you can kind of take us
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 5: through how a parent can be as cognizant as possible
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 5: of these dangers and how they can prepare a child
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 5: or their children to protect them as best as possible
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 5: from these types of things. And I mean specifically you
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 5: talked about teaching them the hand signal, and you talked
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 5: about educating them around giving strangers of rating from one
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 5: to four. These are all things that I think your
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 5: children have been fortunate to benefit from because you've been
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 5: through this. So to conclude the podcast and for parents
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 5: who are a blank canvas, could you walk me through,
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 5: based off the book, like what they can do to
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 5: protect their children.
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 6: So we have the book Keeping Kids Safe Now. It's
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 6: been a real honor to write this book, and I
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 6: feel it's come full circle, actually, Liam, if I may say,
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 6: because the first book was what I went through, specifically
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 6: during those eighteen months when I was left in the house.
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 6: The second book is for a flight path to healing
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 6: four survivors who have experienced us some ideas that will
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 6: help them deal and heal this trauma. And the third
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 6: and final is keeping kids safe at the moment. Now
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 6: in there, what I've done is designed it so that
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 6: every chapter has a theme because you and I we've
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 6: talked earlier about how for most adults safe adults, parents, teachers, etc.
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 6: They don't believe it could be as bad as it is,
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 6: and therefore they turn away. That cognitive dissonance kicks in. Meanwhile,
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 6: we see the rates growing, We see people searching child
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 6: sexual abuse materials. Those IP addresses are growing exponentially. We
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 6: know the numbers don't lie. So in the book, I've
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 6: divided it into eleven sections and there's lots of information.
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 6: But it is for adults to teach children. It is
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 6: not for a child or teenager to read themselves. The
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 6: reason being because people, parents, teachers need to be as
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 6: informed as the children, and some of what they're reading
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 6: they need to learn for themselves. So one of the
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 6: chapters in the book is on child sex trafficking, and
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 6: now we know that the vast majority of children who
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 6: are trafficked sleep in their own beds at night. There's
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 6: a myth out there that, no, it's just across borders,
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 6: or it's just children who are not necessarily living in
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 6: safe homes. No, it's not. This is huge. There's a
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 6: lot of money in this game. It's overtaken the drug
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 6: trade exponentially in terms of profit according to the United Nations. Yeah.
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 6: So the thing with drugs is it's one and done.
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 6: You can use a drug. Once it's done, you then
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 6: have to procure more. A child isn't sorry to be
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 6: this graphic, No, but a child can be used and
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 6: reused tense. Child sex trafficking bigger than being her annexed
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 6: actually on the increase. And you and I talked off
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 6: here about is it bigger now than it was back then? Yes?
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 6: Is it growing? Yes, it is, and that is the
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 6: advent of AI partly, and it's also our digital age.
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 5: So thank you for talking about this now. This is
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 5: this is where I've seen you shine, So please keep
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 5: going because it's what a lot of people don't realize
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 5: is that the danger has like the goalposts have moved
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 5: and technologies helped move them. And please keep going about
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 5: this hour component because I think what you're about to
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 5: go into a lot of people will be shocked.
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, So what people may not know is that
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 6: AI has the capability of removing the clothing off an
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 6: image you may post of your child playing with it
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 6: with their other ten year old friends. Clothing can be removed,
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 6: and these predators then they search, They search Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, Snapchat,
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 6: any of the popular social media sites for images of children.
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 6: The clothing is then removed. They are then traded globally,
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 6: or they are sold, or they are used to find
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 6: those children or similar looking children to try and groom, exploit,
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 6: and then abuse. So all of these are very well known,
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 6: documented facts. And every time I see an image of
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 6: a child or children on social media, I feel a
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 6: bit sick because people don't know what they don't know,
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 6: and Liam, we've got to educate them. So that's one
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 6: chapter in the book, is this online exploitation and how
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 6: we can stop this. At the end of each of
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 6: the chapters is a checklist, because what you may do
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 6: is read it and think, actually I knew most of that.
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 6: There's only two or three things I need to tick
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 6: that I want to follow up on. So by the
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 6: time you finish the book with your eleven checklists, your
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 6: roadmaps different to mine. Right, So it's customized for you
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 6: as a parent, or as a safe adult, or as
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 6: a teacher to be able to work with and learn
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 6: what you need to.
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 5: And you've covered all this in the book, all of it,
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 5: including the AI components and the how the Really.
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 6: I've covered what child sexual abuse is, I've covered child
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 6: sex trafficking. I've covered tools for parents. I've covered tools
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 6: for children. I've covered what to do with a child discloses.
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 6: I've covered off the impact on parents, the impact on children.
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 6: I've covered a huge array. We've covered sex torsion because
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 6: that's huge as well.
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 5: There was a case where a girl took her life
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 5: over that as well.
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah, they're actually there's a lot more than one. And
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 6: it's our younger teens that are being hit and they
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 6: don't know what to do. So you know, again, parents,
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 6: we need to be mindful your child is not necessarily
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 6: sitting in the living room safe with you where you're
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 6: finishing up work for the day. While they're on their device,
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 6: they could think they're playing a game, or they're on
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 6: a messaging or in a chat group with other teenagers
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 6: or peers of their own age. Now behind that could
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 6: be a forty eight year old male who's established himself
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 6: with that identity, and this is how this extortion begins.
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 6: So yeah, it's pretty scary. And one thing you may
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 6: not be aware of, but you're going to be shortly,
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 6: aren't you lucky, is that children can't be prosecuted. You see,
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 6: so if a child is being extorted to either give
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 6: money or get money to pay these extortionists off, or
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 6: to get other children involved, they can never be punished
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 6: by law. So it's quite clever, and it's getting more
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 6: and more strategic and smart with how these predators gets
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 6: in them. So here's here's equip It wasn't mine, but
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 6: I think you'll love it.
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 6: Please, would you take a seven year old into New
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 6: York Times Square and leave them for an hour by themselves?
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah? You would? No, No, no, I'm just I'm just
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 5: amazed at your ability to like to steal this down
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 5: and put it out so eloquently. It's very impressive. Thank
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 5: you and I'm hard to impress.
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 6: Well, let you keep going with that. So my second
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 6: rejoinder to that is, this is what we do every
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 6: time we allow a child or teenager to sit on
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 6: a device at home. They may look safe, but you
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 6: don't know what's going on behind that firewall, or behind
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 6: the chat they're having, or behind the game they're playing.
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 6: And so what we do is we need to start
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 6: building in safeguarding software. And that is something that I
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 6: also mentioned in the book as tools of parents. Start
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 6: to educate yourself. Another thing, and another tip is please
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 6: start teaching your and this is tools for children, but
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 6: parents are teaching them. Please start teaching your beautiful young
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 6: ones and teenagers body safety rules because children aren't aware
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 6: that they have autonomy or the right to say no
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 6: to an adult. Think about it. I'm big, you're little.
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 6: I'm smart. I've got the power.
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 1: You don't.
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 6: It's out of a movie. But the point being, I
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 6: love that.
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 5: So cool. My girlfriend, she's gonna love you. I believe me.
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 5: It's smarter than me.
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 2: Really.
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 6: But what I'm trying to say is children and we
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 6: do it ourselves. And I condition my children and I've
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 6: got a grandson as well, to respect outs, do what
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 6: they say, and imagining they're safe. Let's stop drop and roll,
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 6: let's stop. What we need to do is start teaching
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 6: our children to trust their instinct and so he tip
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 6: number one for parents. If you have a family around
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 6: for a barbecue, your mates with the parents, the kids
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 6: play together, you think, and you have an event where
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 6: they say the night before, a few nights before, you've
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 6: sat around with your kids, because once a week you're
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 6: going to have these dinners Pete tonight, and you're going
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 6: to say, right, we've got a new rule in our house.
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 6: You can either call it ABC, red, blue, green, one, two, three,
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 6: whatever you like. We're going to have a three rating
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 6: system if we use one to three, one being this
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 6: is serious and you need to talk to your mum
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 6: or rye because something's happening. When we're having this family
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 6: over that you're not comfortable with. You need to say, Dad,
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 6: it's a one, which is code for you as the parent,
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 6: to then leave the room, take the child and say
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 6: what's going on, to which your child might then say,
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 6: I feel really uncomfortable every time you tell me to
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 6: go down into the bedroom and play with this friend
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 6: of our family who's three years older than me. I
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 6: don't like what he wants to do. Great, you've just
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 6: been informed of something that's Priority one.
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 5: It's really good advice.
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 6: Right. Priority two might be I'm feeling unsafe. I don't
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 6: know why nothing's happened, but please get me out of
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 6: the room now. You can see how if you're anything
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 6: like I was as a parent, or for amazing parents watching,
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 6: if my kids interrupted me when I was talking and
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 6: socializing with other adults, I think, go away, let me
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 6: go and play, keep playing. But see what we're doing now,
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 6: we're stopping, We're giving attention to that, and we might
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 6: be saying to our daughter, what's the two about? Why
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 6: are you calling it a too? I feel unsafe? I
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 6: just don't. I'm just getting a yucky feeling. Please don't
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 6: make me stay in the room. So my response or
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 6: your response is a safe parent as to say, right, kids,
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 6: come on, come into the living room. You can't make
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 6: big noises, but we want to just have you with
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 6: us now. If it's a priority three or rating of three,
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 6: it might be I'm not really enjoying the company. I'm safe,
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 6: but I'm not enjoying their company. Can you help me
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 6: just not have to endure it. And that's where you
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 6: might say, as an adult or one of the parents,
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 6: come on, kids, we're putting on a video and I
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 6: might stand at the back of the room or watch
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 6: with them for a little while so see what we're doing.
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 6: We're changing from children should be seen or not heard
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 6: to children should be heard, and then that should be
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 6: acted on.
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 5: That's so important, honestly, And can I tell you, for
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 5: anyone who's not listening, that was fantastic. Number one, number
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 5: two for anyone who's not listening. Gloria did this very
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 5: important part of the podcast which we lost the footage
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 5: to your credit, And I think this shows your character
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 5: the way you delivered that again flawless, and I think
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 5: it shows who you are as a person that you
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 5: sat in a room with me, lost that speech to
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 5: the cutting room floor, got back up, gave it again.
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 5: I think it shows how passionate you are about the topic.
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 5: I think it shows how much you care. It shows
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 5: your character as a survivor. It shows your strength and
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 5: determination of will, and I am just so impressed that
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 5: you were able to do that, and it's going to
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 5: help so many people. That information well, so many people,
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 5: And I haven't finished. If I may, please, please, I
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 5: want you to keep going.
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 6: Of course, of may you've got me on a rock.
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 6: Let's talk about hand signs and you will please very
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 6: cleverly and quickly, astutely picked up on the Freemason Jew's
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 6: hand signs, which is how they signal unbeknown to me,
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 6: but maybe a deeper the deeper part of me head wisdom.
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 6: I didn't know because when I released that global hand
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 6: sign for under sixteen's it was a hand sign. Well,
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 6: guess what. That's how we counter this evil, isn't it?
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 6: So we give the kids tools. Because if you would
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 6: ask me, which I know you're doing to, how many
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 6: of children actually verbally disclose? My number is going to
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 6: be between five to ten percent. So let's help the
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 6: other ninety by sharing the hand sign. If we could
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 6: get it across billboards, if we could get it out
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 6: there in every school, in every auditorium, across bridges, imagine
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 6: how many kids could use it. Hashtag Lets save some kids?
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 1: What are we here for?
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 6: Okay? Third thing, if you're looking at keeping your kids
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 6: really safe and they're not with you, let's say might
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 6: be a sleepover, could be a camp weekend. It could
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 6: be even with extended family. I don't know. It could
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 6: be somewhere where they're away and you've sat down with
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 6: your children and agreed as a family or voted as
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 6: a family again a pizza and idol takeaway night that
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 6: they are too. You are to all agree on one
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 6: emoji that the family can use if a child is
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 6: feeling unsafe or at risk. They don't write words because
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 6: an adult around them might see it. But if they're
• 2:19:11
  Speaker 6: away from you and you get this emoji, let's say
• 2:19:14
  Speaker 6: it's a Teddy Bear. You stop dropping, drive, get in
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 6: the cart, go and get that child, no questions asked,
• 2:19:20
  Speaker 6: and when the adult answers the doid, just say I
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 6: forgot We're going to Nina's first thing. It's quite a drive.
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 6: I don't care what you do. Lie well, fake it,
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 6: get the child out. Don't text back and say why
• 2:19:32
  Speaker 6: are you send him this?
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 5: Please?
• 2:19:35
  Speaker 6: Parents, please? If I got to ask you one thing,
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 6: if you get that emoji, it's because they're seriously worried. Okay,
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 6: it's a weird question.
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 5: Has anyone ever asked you to speak at like the
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 5: United Nations or something about this topic.
• 2:19:49
  Speaker 6: No, but I'd love to do a ted talk yeah, yes,
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 6: would you.
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 5: Like to do both?
• 2:19:54
  Speaker 6: Why not?
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 5: Okay, I need some phone calls after this, like some
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 5: more tips, please please please please.
• 2:20:01
  Speaker 6: Okay, it's all about me dot com.
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 5: No, No, this is important, this is really important.
• 2:20:07
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 2:20:07
  Speaker 6: I just wanted to say, some kids ask me, ask
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 6: me what me and other survivors would always respond yes to.
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 6: And I've been asked many times.
• 2:20:16
  Speaker 5: What you always respond yes to?
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 2: Mean?
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 5: In what context?
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 6: Have you asked me?
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 6: Would you have used the hand sign? Right? Yes? Right?
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 5: And you said there was a case where someone reached
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 5: out and a young girl actually used that sign and
• 2:20:31
  Speaker 5: she was able to get out of harm's way. Right.
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah. Eight year old in North Auckland. Social worker reached
• 2:20:38
  Speaker 6: out to me and said, oh my god, you're not
• 2:20:40
  Speaker 6: going to believe what we've just been advised. This eight
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 6: year old was at school and signaled the headmaster principal
• 2:20:47
  Speaker 6: and he managed to take action. But this is across
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 6: the world. I get contacted all the time and people
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 6: who have heard stories or seen them, and the thing
• 2:20:58
  Speaker 6: is kids are signaling. So he's another little snippet. Went
• 2:21:01
  Speaker 6: into a chiropractor earlier in the week and he knew
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 6: me obviously, and he knew about the hand sign, and
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 6: he said to me, since I spoke to you, I
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 6: actually now when children and teenagers are brought into me,
• 2:21:16
  Speaker 6: I'm always looking. Parents think I'm checking out the body.
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 6: This skeletal, So I'm looking at their hands. Are they
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 6: signing me? And sometimes they are really yes. And not
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 6: only that, he's also got decided he's going to make
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 6: a big poster for his war. So there's children walk
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 6: and they see one, two, three, if you're unsafe for
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 6: being abused, ye, was this a doctor a chiropractice.
• 2:21:43
  Speaker 5: That's incredible.
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 6: But this is what we need.
• 2:21:45
  Speaker 5: I believe me, I know, I know, I just this
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 5: is why I'm so passionate about this topic and why
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 5: it's so important, and this is why it's probably one
• 2:21:53
  Speaker 5: of the longest podcasts we've ever done. It's because it
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 5: is suctually important topic. And as I said, it's it's
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 5: unique because I do cover a lot of important topics,
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 5: but this is one that actually will help people. And
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 5: even imagine if even just one kid watched this, just
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 5: one because this could get a million views that could
• 2:22:12
  Speaker 5: get to I don't really don't give a shit about views,
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 5: but like I I feel, as long as I put
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 5: something out in the world that's good and of value.
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 5: The views don't matter, because if it helps one person,
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 5: that's what matters. And you might get one person that
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 5: might watch this and they will know for the science
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 5: to look out for. You might even get a parent
• 2:22:29
  Speaker 5: that will watch this and that whole like spread of
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 5: information that you've just given us. You know, that could
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 5: reach one parent, which saves one child. And I think,
• 2:22:41
  Speaker 5: as a child that's gone through this, I think that's
• 2:22:43
  Speaker 5: probably more meaningful. I think saving what correct me if
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 5: I'm wrong, saving one child is probably more important than
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 5: a million. Well, thank you byeballs.
• 2:22:52
  Speaker 6: Sorry well, And I think also you and I did
• 2:22:56
  Speaker 6: talk earlier about the statistics. So even late twin twenty three,
• 2:23:00
  Speaker 6: there was some research done in Australia. A child and
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 6: an adult standing in front of a few adults, and
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 6: the child saying I was sexually abused by this person,
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 6: the adult saying not possible, lying as usual. Sixty six
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 6: percent of the adults still believe the adult. So come on, world,
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 6: let's change this. Yeah, I think change this.
• 2:23:23
  Speaker 5: I think content like this helps a lot as well.
• 2:23:26
  Speaker 6: So what do we need to do? I think, are
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 6: she with you? Very grateful in New Zealand, someone sort
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 6: of podcast I was on and knew one of my
• 2:23:34
  Speaker 6: dreams was to get that book into every school in New.
• 2:23:37
  Speaker 5: Zealand keeping kids Safe yep, yep.
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 6: And so she's funded us to do that. What we're
• 2:23:44
  Speaker 6: still trying to do is get the postage to get
• 2:23:46
  Speaker 6: it and do every book. But wouldn't that be something?
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 5: Oh, I think this should be in every I think
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 5: every parent in every school should have a copy of
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 5: this book.
• 2:23:56
  Speaker 6: Okay, would you like one final tip for kids?
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 5: Please?
• 2:23:59
  Speaker 6: Body safety. We need to teach them that their body
• 2:24:03
  Speaker 6: belongs to them, that they own their body. They have autonomy,
• 2:24:07
  Speaker 6: They can say if they don't like something, it might
• 2:24:10
  Speaker 6: be there an older child is tickling them to stop,
• 2:24:15
  Speaker 6: don't like it. We've got to start giving children autonomy
• 2:24:19
  Speaker 6: and understanding that no one can can touch their geno
• 2:24:23
  Speaker 6: tools or private parts unless it's a doctor worth mammal
• 2:24:27
  Speaker 6: deed in the room or it's a medical thing.
• 2:24:30
  Speaker 5: The most important part of that sense was with mum
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 5: and dad in the room, because I mean, you saw
• 2:24:35
  Speaker 5: that case of you know what I'm talking about, right,
• 2:24:37
  Speaker 5: isn't it good? We don't even need to have the
• 2:24:39
  Speaker 5: conversation let's not even say his name because he's an
• 2:24:41
  Speaker 5: animal and we don't want to talk about animals on
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 5: this podcast. And may he write in the deepest, deepest
• 2:24:46
  Speaker 5: part of health. I'm very passionate about it, but very
• 2:24:50
  Speaker 5: important with the parent in there.
• 2:24:53
  Speaker 6: Safe adult. Also, here's another tip, because it can't help
• 2:24:57
  Speaker 6: it your children. I wasn't lucky enough to have a
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 6: safe adult ever in my life but growing up, but
• 2:25:06
  Speaker 6: children now do or are more likely to have at
• 2:25:10
  Speaker 6: least one person outside of the family. Get your children again,
• 2:25:14
  Speaker 6: it's a pizza andight, it's a discussion. Make it turn
• 2:25:16
  Speaker 6: it into a game, and get them to tell you
• 2:25:18
  Speaker 6: the name of one safe adult they could go to
• 2:25:21
  Speaker 6: if they needed to.
• 2:25:23
  Speaker 5: That's really good as well.
• 2:25:24
  Speaker 6: And then you contact that safe adult and say, congratulations,
• 2:25:28
  Speaker 6: you've been chosen, Thank you so much for who you are.
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 6: Thank my child honors you so much. And therefore I
• 2:25:35
  Speaker 6: do please know, if ever you're approached, I'm so grateful
• 2:25:39
  Speaker 6: to you.
• 2:25:41
  Speaker 5: Look, I could keep doing this for another three hours,
• 2:25:43
  Speaker 5: but we're gonna have to save this for because I
• 2:25:46
  Speaker 5: do think we're gonna need to do a second one.
• 2:25:47
  Speaker 5: And we did talk about something really cool, which is
• 2:25:49
  Speaker 5: we might do a panel next time, because I think
• 2:25:51
  Speaker 5: if we can get a good spread of people to
• 2:25:53
  Speaker 5: talk about this topic, that'd be good. And yeah, look,
• 2:25:56
  Speaker 5: I think in your future, I do see something like
• 2:25:59
  Speaker 5: a tadac or a un I just have a I
• 2:26:03
  Speaker 5: don't have a whole bunch of gifts, but one is
• 2:26:05
  Speaker 5: I can see things in people, and I think that's
• 2:26:07
  Speaker 5: where most likely your message belongs. And I do hope
• 2:26:10
  Speaker 5: that that's where it goes, and I have a feeling
• 2:26:11
  Speaker 5: it will. And as I said before, you know, complete
• 2:26:17
  Speaker 5: testament to your character that you were able to deliver
• 2:26:19
  Speaker 5: that flawlessly on the back end of this podcast. Again,
• 2:26:21
  Speaker 5: that's okay. And I do think we're all put here
• 2:26:24
  Speaker 5: for a reason and a purpose which we don't find
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 5: out until later in life. And I think, to your credit,
• 2:26:29
  Speaker 5: you're really fulfilling the reason that you were put here.
• 2:26:32
  Speaker 5: And I would like to thank you again for coming
• 2:26:36
  Speaker 5: here to say thank you, glory masters, thank you so much.
• 2:26:39
  Speaker 6: We'll link in by such a pleasure. Thank you.
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 2: All right, So our final thoughts, She's really powerful, gives
• 2:26:49
  Speaker 2: me the chills, really powerful message. We need to be
• 2:26:54
  Speaker 2: teaching our kids these hand signs, doing the color system
• 2:26:58
  Speaker 2: wherever it is teacher to your kids.
• 2:27:00
  Speaker 1: Please.
• 2:27:01
  Speaker 2: I'm still working on sign language, just getting milk down,
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 2: so I'm not gonna be teaching the color system anytime soon.
• 2:27:10
  Speaker 2: But trust me, when he gets old enough to understand
• 2:27:15
  Speaker 2: what's up, he's gonna have hand signs, color systems, safe people.
• 2:27:21
  Speaker 2: We're going to be doing all of the things, and
• 2:27:23
  Speaker 2: I hope you do it with your children as well.
• 2:27:28
  Speaker 1: And really read the book. I'm gonna look it up
• 2:27:31
  Speaker 1: on Amazon and see if I can find it.
• 2:27:33
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'll put a link in the show notes for it,
• 2:27:35
  Speaker 2: because really, really really important stuff to touch on. Kind
• 2:27:43
  Speaker 2: of my mini rant in the middle of the episode,
• 2:27:47
  Speaker 2: I think, yes, protect your children from this monstrous stuff
• 2:27:52
  Speaker 2: that can happen. But on a smaller scale, these micro traumas,
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 2: that's what I would call it, is like a micro
• 2:28:02
  Speaker 2: trauma of the sound and site deprivation, blackout sessions for naps,
• 2:28:13
  Speaker 2: crying yourself to sleep, Like who wants to who? These
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 2: are little humans. They're little people, all right, and just
• 2:28:26
  Speaker 2: because their communication isn't like ours doesn't mean they don't
• 2:28:30
  Speaker 2: feel the same shit that we do. So how would
• 2:28:34
  Speaker 2: you like every time you go to sleep, nap, bedtime,
• 2:28:39
  Speaker 2: whatever you go to sleep crying yourself.
• 2:28:44
  Speaker 1: Do you know the headaches?
• 2:28:47
  Speaker 2: If I've really been crying and I finally go to sleep,
• 2:28:52
  Speaker 2: when I wake up, I've got a monstrous headache. My
• 2:28:57
  Speaker 2: nose is stuff, my eyes are burn in, my head hurts,
• 2:29:01
  Speaker 2: my body aches.
• 2:29:04
  Speaker 1: Every time they go to sleep.
• 2:29:07
  Speaker 2: That's what it is, crying yourself into a traumatic trauma
• 2:29:16
  Speaker 2: induced sleep cycle.
• 2:29:21
  Speaker 1: And I spiritually, I have heard.
• 2:29:26
  Speaker 2: Many people talk about this, and I wouldn't consider myself
• 2:29:31
  Speaker 2: to be a spiritualist, but I do agree with a
• 2:29:35
  Speaker 2: lot of spiritual notions, and one of them is the
• 2:29:42
  Speaker 2: parents protect the astral body of a child from newborn
• 2:29:50
  Speaker 2: infancy all the way through toddlerhood. At night while they're sleeping,
• 2:29:57
  Speaker 2: if the child in the or the baby is in
• 2:30:01
  Speaker 2: the bed with the parents, the parents, even in their sleep,
• 2:30:07
  Speaker 2: are protecting the child's astral spiritual body. And I just
• 2:30:16
  Speaker 2: can't think of anything that makes more sense to me.
• 2:30:20
  Speaker 2: It's so instinctual to have your baby. What if I
• 2:30:25
  Speaker 2: roll over, you.
• 2:30:25
  Speaker 1: Ain't going to. You're not going to. It's against your instincts.
• 2:30:30
  Speaker 2: You're not going to roll.
• 2:30:31
  Speaker 1: Over on them.
• 2:30:33
  Speaker 2: And if they get a blanket or a pillow or something,
• 2:30:39
  Speaker 2: they will let you know, kick, cry, wake up, fidget toss, turn,
• 2:30:45
  Speaker 2: they will let you know.
• 2:30:45
  Speaker 1: If they are uncomfortable, they will wake up. If they
• 2:30:50
  Speaker 1: are hungry, they.
• 2:30:51
  Speaker 2: Will do They have mechanisms. Okay, they're advanced beings with
• 2:30:59
  Speaker 2: no verbal communication, so they still feel everything that an
• 2:31:05
  Speaker 2: adult would feel, but they just can't verbalize it. Crying
• 2:31:11
  Speaker 2: yourself to sleep, and then it's like they wake up
• 2:31:14
  Speaker 2: crying and.
• 2:31:16
  Speaker 1: It's just what a way to live.
• 2:31:20
  Speaker 2: Blackout sleep deprivation sessions for sleep and.
• 2:31:28
  Speaker 6: For me.
• 2:31:29
  Speaker 2: The spirit cannot move freely through a person on a rigid,
• 2:31:37
  Speaker 2: authoritarian type of schedule. I know that there are different
• 2:31:42
  Speaker 2: personality types adult people.
• 2:31:45
  Speaker 1: There are.
• 2:31:47
  Speaker 2: Personality types where it's like they like everything planned, everything scheduled,
• 2:31:51
  Speaker 2: everything on this time, this time. You ever been around
• 2:31:55
  Speaker 2: somebody like that. They're not typically pleasant and they can
• 2:32:00
  Speaker 2: never just let the spirit flow through them. I know
• 2:32:07
  Speaker 2: that might be a dick of me to say, but
• 2:32:09
  Speaker 2: it's like people who are very rigid like that, that's
• 2:32:15
  Speaker 2: not typically people that I like to engage with, you know,
• 2:32:20
  Speaker 2: and think about babies are and little tiny kids. They're
• 2:32:25
  Speaker 2: so fresh, they're freshly in a body. They're very highly
• 2:32:31
  Speaker 2: connected to the spirit and what you do when you
• 2:32:34
  Speaker 2: schedule their life every day like that, very rigidly scheduled.
• 2:32:40
  Speaker 2: It's like it removes the flow of life of like, like,
• 2:32:47
  Speaker 2: think of yourself, do you really get hungry at exactly
• 2:32:52
  Speaker 2: the same time every day? Ten to oh two, breakfast
• 2:32:58
  Speaker 2: three oh seven, this six h five? This snap time here,
• 2:33:06
  Speaker 2: bedtime here, nap time here, Like.
• 2:33:11
  Speaker 1: Is that really? As an adult?
• 2:33:14
  Speaker 2: Do you really function like that?
• 2:33:16
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 2:33:18
  Speaker 2: And I even saw this one guy arguing how beneficial
• 2:33:24
  Speaker 2: sleep training is, because he said, could you imagine as
• 2:33:28
  Speaker 2: an adult if you were just willy nilly taking naps
• 2:33:32
  Speaker 2: and going to bed at different times, you'd lose your mind?
• 2:33:35
  Speaker 2: And I was thinking, actually no, because as an adult,
• 2:33:41
  Speaker 2: I do go to bed at a different time every night.
• 2:33:44
  Speaker 2: I do have a different thing that I like to
• 2:33:46
  Speaker 2: do every night before I go to bed. It's round
• 2:33:48
  Speaker 2: about the same thing. But like night before last, he
• 2:33:53
  Speaker 2: went to sleep on his own.
• 2:33:55
  Speaker 1: At eight o'clock.
• 2:33:57
  Speaker 2: Last night, he took a nap around eight o'clock, woke
• 2:34:00
  Speaker 2: back up, stayed up till like ten thirty, and I
• 2:34:04
  Speaker 2: put him to sleep because I was tired and going
• 2:34:07
  Speaker 2: to bed, and then he slept throughout the night. It
• 2:34:09
  Speaker 2: was fine, But we have like a round about bedtime
• 2:34:15
  Speaker 2: thing kind of that we do.
• 2:34:17
  Speaker 1: But I'm not It doesn't have to be so rigid.
• 2:34:21
  Speaker 2: If you asked me what time he gets bottles all
• 2:34:24
  Speaker 2: throughout the day, I'd say I have no fucking idea.
• 2:34:27
  Speaker 2: He eats when he's hungry, sleeps when he's tired, goes
• 2:34:31
  Speaker 2: to bed when he's ready to go to bed, just
• 2:34:36
  Speaker 2: like I think.
• 2:34:38
  Speaker 1: There has been such.
• 2:34:40
  Speaker 2: A concerted effort to remove parents from children's lives, with
• 2:34:48
  Speaker 2: removing the mother from the home, putting her in the
• 2:34:53
  Speaker 2: full time working circuit, and therefore the child being raised
• 2:34:59
  Speaker 2: by Mick.
• 2:35:00
  Speaker 1: Martin daycare easy access to children.
• 2:35:04
  Speaker 2: You remember that Fuster Family daycare that I talked to
• 2:35:07
  Speaker 2: you about. There was a daycare on a military based
• 2:35:12
  Speaker 2: presidio daycare and it was also an elementary school, raping kids.
• 2:35:16
  Speaker 1: Listen, The point is.
• 2:35:18
  Speaker 2: Remove the parents from the child's life, especially the mother,
• 2:35:22
  Speaker 2: put her in the full time workforce, remove the child
• 2:35:26
  Speaker 2: from the bed at night, remove the spiritual flow of
• 2:35:31
  Speaker 2: life throughout a child's normal day to day reactions, schedule everything,
• 2:35:38
  Speaker 2: wake up time, nap time, food time, and I have
• 2:35:43
  Speaker 2: noticed that he plays by himself more contently and longer
• 2:35:53
  Speaker 2: when he doesn't have toys that light up or sing.
• 2:35:56
  Speaker 2: And I've talked to you kinda about this before, but
• 2:35:59
  Speaker 2: if you think think of everything as an assault on
• 2:36:02
  Speaker 2: your child, it makes more sense. And think about yourself
• 2:36:07
  Speaker 2: as an adult.
• 2:36:07
  Speaker 1: When you hear the toys.
• 2:36:09
  Speaker 2: Going off over and over and over and over and
• 2:36:12
  Speaker 2: over and over again, and the lights flashing, and like
• 2:36:17
  Speaker 2: the toys saying the same six things over and over
• 2:36:21
  Speaker 2: and over and over again. This is all mental manipulation.
• 2:36:27
  Speaker 2: It's destroying a child's attention span. You ever watch some
• 2:36:31
  Speaker 2: of these kids shows their dog shit and you're please
• 2:36:35
  Speaker 2: if you hear anything. Your child does not need to
• 2:36:40
  Speaker 2: be having screen time at all, maybe after age three.
• 2:36:46
  Speaker 2: We can talk about twenty minutes here and there. I
• 2:36:50
  Speaker 2: watch what I want to watch on TV. He pays
• 2:36:54
  Speaker 2: attention to it for five seconds, maybe ted, and then
• 2:36:57
  Speaker 2: he wants to be put down, or I'll find something
• 2:37:00
  Speaker 2: to mess around with or whatever he don't care about,
• 2:37:03
  Speaker 2: like adult programming, the shit that's targeted for children. You
• 2:37:09
  Speaker 2: might as well take your kid to mc martin. You
• 2:37:13
  Speaker 2: strap your kid in front of the TV with a snack.
• 2:37:18
  Speaker 2: Their toys are lighting up and singing. You got the
• 2:37:21
  Speaker 2: TV shows going you got the I mean, take just
• 2:37:24
  Speaker 2: take them to a retard home. At this point, like
• 2:37:27
  Speaker 2: where's the parenting?
• 2:37:29
  Speaker 1: Where is the parenting?
• 2:37:32
  Speaker 5: You know?
• 2:37:32
  Speaker 2: I just these micro traumas that I see people do
• 2:37:36
  Speaker 2: to their kids on a day to day basis. And
• 2:37:41
  Speaker 2: I'm not fucking doctor phil of kids or anything like that,
• 2:37:45
  Speaker 2: but what I will say is use your intuition. Does
• 2:37:49
  Speaker 2: it feel right that every time my kid plays with
• 2:37:52
  Speaker 2: their toys I want to rip my fucking hair out?
• 2:37:55
  Speaker 2: Does it feel right that I would like to be
• 2:37:59
  Speaker 2: engaged and like doing activities and ship with my kid,
• 2:38:02
  Speaker 2: but they are so strapped and so dependent on visual
• 2:38:08
  Speaker 2: stimulation from the TV, from this, from that, they oh, mom,
• 2:38:13
  Speaker 2: let's stop everything we're doing right now to have a
• 2:38:16
  Speaker 2: sleep deprivation session, fucking blackout noise and sight session.
• 2:38:25
  Speaker 1: You know this This stuff is weird to me.
• 2:38:28
  Speaker 2: It's weird, and I think that the way things are
• 2:38:34
  Speaker 2: marketed to parents now is just kind of as a
• 2:38:39
  Speaker 2: conspiracy theorist, it's obvious to me that that that these
• 2:38:44
  Speaker 2: are things that go against your better instincts as a parent.
• 2:38:50
  Speaker 2: But think about how many times this this woman got
• 2:38:55
  Speaker 2: raped as a child, And it's like no, no adult
• 2:38:58
  Speaker 2: reached out to you. No, no adult paid any attention
• 2:39:01
  Speaker 2: to you. Nobody helped you, nobody came to your rescue,
• 2:39:05
  Speaker 2: nobody gave a shit what was happening to you?
• 2:39:08
  Speaker 1: And I think these.
• 2:39:10
  Speaker 2: Micro traumas that we do to our own kids, it's
• 2:39:13
  Speaker 2: kind of like pay attention.
• 2:39:16
  Speaker 1: Pay attention.
• 2:39:19
  Speaker 2: Children communicate mostly non verbally. Okay, maybe they won't, she said.
• 2:39:26
  Speaker 2: If maybe I wouldn't have told somebody I was being abused,
• 2:39:29
  Speaker 2: but I would have used the hand sign. It's the
• 2:39:31
  Speaker 2: same thing babies, toddlers, pay attention. Listen to your instinct,
• 2:39:39
  Speaker 2: show them this stuff, show them the hand signs, you know,
• 2:39:43
  Speaker 2: watch them engage in playtime.
• 2:39:46
  Speaker 1: Maybe take away the.
• 2:39:48
  Speaker 2: Toys that are lighting up and singing and like doing
• 2:39:51
  Speaker 2: all the takeaway the TV time. Watch how they engage
• 2:39:56
  Speaker 2: with their environment. Let's be better than this in twenty twenty. Okay,
• 2:40:01
  Speaker 2: let's go back to some nineties shit. All right, let's
• 2:40:05
  Speaker 2: go back to some nineties shit. Not saying I want,
• 2:40:09
  Speaker 2: you know, a revamp of the grunge scene. I just
• 2:40:15
  Speaker 2: want to see us be a little bit more grassroots
• 2:40:18
  Speaker 2: and homegrown with parenting. Okay, but anyways, really powerful testimony
• 2:40:24
  Speaker 2: loved this woman's story. I don't question her at all.
• 2:40:30
  Speaker 2: I think she's great. Reminds me a lot of Fiona
• 2:40:35
  Speaker 2: from the other Australian SRA survivor video. Let me know
• 2:40:40
  Speaker 2: what you think, thoughts, feeling spentitions. I got an invitation
• 2:40:45
  Speaker 2: to work with jj Van soon on a movie review.
• 2:40:49
  Speaker 2: Looking forward to that. It might actually be the next episode.
• 2:40:52
  Speaker 2: We'll see, but anyways, love you guys. Always enjoy our
• 2:40:59
  Speaker 2: time together, but it has now come to an end.
• 2:41:02
  Speaker 2: Take care of yourselves and I will catch you on
• 2:41:07
  Speaker 2: the next one.
• 2:41:59
  Speaker 6: H