Latest / The CITIUS MAG Podcast | A Running + Track and Field Show / Vince Ciattei On Winning His First US Title In The 5000m After A Decade Of Near-Misses

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Vince Ciattei On Winning His First US Title In The 5000m After A Decade Of Near-Misses · The CITIUS MAG Podcast | A Running + Track and Field Show

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  What's up everyone? You are listening to the Citius
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  Mag podcast. I'm your host Chris Chavez, and
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  every week we go beyond the results to bring you
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  conversations with the biggest names on the track, the roads,
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  and behind the scenes. From world class athletes and
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  coaches to innovators shaping the sport.
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  If it's happening on the track, we're covering it with real
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  insights that sharpen minds, deep dives into the moments that
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  define careers and the kind of access to the pros you won't get
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  anywhere else. So let's get into it, because we
• 2:21
  love track and field. My guest for today's episode is
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  Vinciotti, the US 5000 meter champion at 31 years old.
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  Roughly 24 hours after losing the 1500 meter final by 5
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  hundredths of a second, Vince went back out at Icahn Stadium
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  and won the 5K national title in 1346, an event that he had raced
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  only once in the previous five years.
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  It was the first national track title of his career, and it came
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  after runs of 4th place finishes, 3rd place finishes,
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  second place finishes stretched across nearly a decade.
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  As a professional, Vince trains with Under Armour's dark Sky
• 3:00
  distance in Flagstaff under coach Stephen Haas.
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  He went to Virginia Tech where he only became good enough to
• 3:05
  GoPro. In his fifth year, he finished
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  fourth at the 2024 Olympic Trials by 1/4 of a second.
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  He has been on the edge of breaking through internationally
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  for years and this year it finally started to crack open.
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  Some of the highlights from this year.
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  He ran 330, a personal best in Rabat earlier behind yard
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  Negoos, Isaac Nader, the World champion and Azidine Habs.
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  He put together a 1313 personal best in the 5K at Payton Jordan
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  back in May, and then this past weekend was the culmination of
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  everything. He went from reading a LetsRun
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  write up at 4:00 AM declaring that he had missed his best shot
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  to standing on top of a podium less than 12 hours later.
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  In this conversation, we get into all of it.
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  The sports psychologist who helped him reframe a decade of
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  near misses as a trajectory rather than a verdict.
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  The 24 hour turn around between the two finals and what it took
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  to flip the switch. What Rabat and Ostrava showed
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  him about where he actually stands internationally and the
• 4:04
  coaching lineage that is built From Marilyn Bevins, a
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  trailblazer of American marathoning, who coached him at
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  Perry Hall High School in Baltimore, through Ben Thomas at
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  Virginia, Mark Roland at OTC Elite, and now Stephen Haas at
• 4:17
  Dark Sky in Flagstaff. This was a great conversation
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  and I'm very excited for you to get to know Vince a little bit
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  better. So without further ado, here is
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  Vince Ciotti. All right, now I welcome on.
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  US 5000 meter champion Vince Ciattei almost introduced you as
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  Vinciotti. The body.
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  Has that nickname found its way to get over to you?
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  I guess like from, I guess Eric and Aisha have just, you know,
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  made it a habit at this point of the nickname.
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  And I have, I'm watching the broadcast.
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  I'm sitting in the stands and I, you know, it pops into my head.
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  It's one of those things where like I feel like you never want
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  to like pump your own nickname. Like, you know, it feels like
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  like I'm like if this org like, cuz it has been a thing like it,
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  it was a thing at Virginia Tech. Like, I mean, I had by the end
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  of my time there, I had teammates that would refer to me
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  as body like cut out the no Vince, no, they would just be
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  like, yeah, what's up body. So, and then I think when I
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  became a pro and wasn't as good for a few years, that definitely
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  it, it, it probably died off quite a bit and I was at odds
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  with my body anyway. So I didn't really like it as a
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  nickname. Now that my body is functioning
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  and I'm running pretty well and it's sort of come back a little
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  bit. I mean, I'm not going to deny
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  there's a bit of a, a, a flow to it.
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  And I'm definitely one of the, you know, maybe one of the more
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  built guys, at least as you know, I'm not going to call
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  myself a 5K guy, but in the 5K, yeah.
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  So yeah, it's, it's it's, it's funny that that's coming back a
• 6:12
  bit because it reminds me of, you know, the sort of inception
• 6:15
  of it in the Vt days. No, I love it.
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  Well, First off, congratulations on an awesome weekend here in
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  New York City, coming away with the national title in the 5K and
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  then a runner up finish in the 1500 overall.
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  I guess like now that you've had a couple days to to process
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  everything, like what are the like big takeaways and feelings
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  from the weekend? Yeah, thanks, Chris.
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  Yeah, I mean, I, I, it's just, I'm really happy to have to have
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  to have won that 5K. Obviously, I think it's just
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  another like, it's a, it's a really big, it's a cool check
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  mark to like have in the career. Like I think, you know, maybe
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  the a, one thing for me, like all these years was trying to
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  make a, a, a US A-Team And, and I finally did that in the road
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  mile champs earlier this spring. And I think that has fed into me
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  having like a lot more like running a bit more freely and
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  having more confidence this year.
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  And then, you know, maybe the the next sort of goal on that
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  would have been win a national title.
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  Like I've been 4th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, like second twice at NC as
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  like I think there was maybe a little bit of a, you know,
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  internal sort of like, am I going to be able to do this sort
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  of thing? And and those results are still
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  I'm proud of those. And I think I was still found
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  some pride in, you know, how I ran in the 1500.
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  I thought I executed OK, I could have executed better.
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  But you know, I think that's something I've come a long way
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  with with instead of being like, Oh my God, it's just another
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  one. And I'm not not going to get
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  this done now to sort of flip the mindset right away, 24 hours
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  later, go, you know, the best thing I could do is just try to
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  X execute and race well again. And yeah, it just, I mean, you
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  just get so much love from the family and friends.
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  Like I think everyone that's aware of like how long of a
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  processes this has been for me. Like I'm obviously not a spring
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  chicken in this sport. So it's just really rewarding.
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  And it's ironic that it was in a 5K like I just never would have.
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  Yeah, that's not how I would have pictured it happening.
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  So yeah. So how so?
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  Why did mom go home after the 1500 I.
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  Mean, that was the thing it was we're we're you know, I really
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  was like, oh, like, you know, I'm got a great shot like I
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  could I could win the 15 like, and I mean, you know, it was
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  still a good race, still exciting, like they had fun
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  being there, but you know they were you know, New York is a
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  very stimulating environment. And so I think after a few days
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  and and, you know, the stress of watching 2 races is, you know,
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  arguably more than the stress of running two races, especially
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  the tactical affairs that they were so I think they were you
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  know, they were ready to to to go home and and watch it on TV.
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  But for me, it always makes such a big difference when like it's
• 9:12
  on, you know, it's, it's it's cool that I can just tell my
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  family like I'll turn on NBC at, you know, X time and and and and
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  and watch and I think that brings a lot more like, you
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  know, it's, it's, it's makes it easy for them and it's cool that
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  they're able to watch. And a lot of my other family
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  back home was able to watch. It's, you know, it's still meant
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  meant a lot. For so many of you know, those
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  friends, family members and people who've been supporting
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  and following your career for the last couple of years, like I
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  think that's a great point that you brought up before.
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  It's just like there have been so many like almost along the
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  way, like almost making this team or almost making the podium
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  in certain races. And for a lot of pros, you could
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  take that and it could be really, really frustrating.
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  But somehow I think like you've done a great job of kind of in
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  some of the interviews you've done after these races of kind
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  of flipping it in in a way mentally and, and describing
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  those races as like evidence that you belong among the best
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  and that like you, you know, you're there.
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  And so I guess like how long did it take for that part of
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  processing, you know, these almost teams, almost podiums,
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  you know, for you as a as a pro, because, you know, maybe the
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  first couple times could probably be frustrating, but
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  then over time, like you, you do have to find a way to, you know,
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  kind of reframe that. I, I, I would give a lot of
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  credit to, I've worked with the sports psych Shannon Thompson
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  and about for about a year and a half now.
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  And it was, it's funny you mentioned like breaking it into
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  like those first couple, like deer misses versus like a more
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  consistent period of that. Cause like the trials in 24 was
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  definitely like my big breakthrough.
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  Like I don't think anyone was picking me to be competitive for
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  that team. And, you know, I was fourth by
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  1/4 of a second and you know, I wasn't, didn't come down to a
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  lean like it did this past weekend at USA is.
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  But you know, I was in the mix to, to, to make that team for
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  sure. And you know, I feel like that
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  was like, oh man, like, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm here now.
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  But I think initially, yes, I think it added a little bit of
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  like pressure to like, OK, you're here now.
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  You have to stay at this level this and that, like almost like
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  convincing myself that I was at that level versus believing it.
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  And I think once I started like working with Shannon and sort of
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  like reframing like results and outcomes, I think that really
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  helped a lot because then, yeah, you can sort of fit these
• 11:51
  outcomes that maybe it isn't the exact outcome you want, but it
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  fits into this overall trajectory of like, OK, you
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  know, before you hadn't come close to making a team.
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  You came close one time. Now you're coming close again
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  and again and again. And you're getting 4th to 3rd to
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  2nd. Like you just have to like
• 12:14
  believe that at some point it's going to translate into the
• 12:17
  actual result that you want. But I think if you just take
• 12:20
  that step back and bring it back to like the process of trying
• 12:25
  and trying and trying again, it does make it easier to like not
• 12:29
  get too, too high or too low about any one thing and, and
• 12:33
  help build that belief that, OK, like these close calls aren't
• 12:39
  only going to be my defining story.
• 12:42
  Like I, you know, you know, I just keep putting myself in that
• 12:46
  situation and at some point it's going to to work out the way
• 12:49
  that I would like it to. 2024 and 2025, I guess like when
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  you're finishing right on the heels of, you know, so many of
• 12:57
  these guys who have Olympic medals, world championship
• 13:00
  medals, like what did you think was missing?
• 13:03
  And just sort of like cracking, you know, kind of joining those
• 13:07
  guys and, and, and winning some of those races.
• 13:10
  And then going into 2026, like how did you actively work
• 13:14
  towards that? Because if we look at just sort
• 13:16
  of like the full body of work of your season from indoors to
• 13:18
  outdoors, like you've raced a a bunch and each time out like
• 13:23
  you're 1 now just kind of winning more.
• 13:26
  And then also two, like you're getting invited to these Diamond
• 13:30
  League races is with some more regularity.
• 13:32
  So it's like, yeah, I mean it. You've already kind of proven
• 13:35
  that like, you can, you know, compete at this stage.
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  With the Diamond Leagues, I think it was like 2024.
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  I ran a couple after the Trials. But, you know, even for me,
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  like, I mean, I was still 29 at that point, but they were still
• 13:52
  like, I hadn't done them yet. So it was still this, like, big
• 13:55
  new thing, like, you know, like a little bit intimidating.
• 13:59
  And then last year I did a few, like, as part of like the sort
• 14:03
  of circuit during the season. And like, that was a little more
• 14:06
  like, OK, like I can, you know, not be as like, awestruck that
• 14:12
  I'm just in the race, like, try to, you know, try to mix it up.
• 14:16
  But I think last year it was a little bit more of like, OK,
• 14:20
  first year, happy to be here. Last year a little mindset of,
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  oh, I can get towed along to like a fast time.
• 14:25
  And then this year I think I've been much better about thinking
• 14:28
  like, OK, like if you look at those guys that I'm behind or
• 14:32
  close to or whatever at the trials or at USA's, they're not
• 14:35
  showing up to the Diamond leagues to get towed along to a
• 14:38
  fast time. They're showing up to try to
• 14:40
  win. Like that's what Yared Nuguse
• 14:41
  done. Every single Diamond League this
• 14:43
  year has been first or second. So not that I've quite made the
• 14:47
  jump to that yet, but I think what helped me a lot in the
• 14:50
  Diamond leagues this year and just in general at these USA is
• 14:54
  just not worrying about the time and like really just having the
• 14:58
  belief that OK, like I can be in the mix now.
• 15:00
  Like I've been on this trajectory that's been good.
• 15:04
  I've sort of worked my way from like just getting my foot in the
• 15:07
  door to at least like running some decent PBS.
• 15:10
  And now we go like, let's compete.
• 15:12
  Like, you know, like if we have that mindset, the worst that
• 15:16
  happens if we don't compete is we still get towed along to a
• 15:19
  decent time. So yeah, I think like, you know,
• 15:23
  I mean, there's so many between Cole Yard, like Hobbes, like
• 15:28
  there's just so much depth. And so these guys show up and
• 15:33
  compete to win in these diamond leagues or at USA or whatever.
• 15:37
  And some of it is just a fitness thing.
• 15:40
  Like I've had a really consistent last three years and
• 15:43
  I've been healthier this year than even the past two years.
• 15:46
  And that's helped a lot. But I think combining that with
• 15:49
  the mindset of like, yeah, why not?
• 15:51
  Like we've been on the scene long enough, now we can try to
• 15:54
  compete in these races, like truly compete, Not just be happy
• 15:58
  to be there, be happy to run a time, you know?
• 16:01
  So I want to kind of take a couple of sample races from this
• 16:06
  year and you tell me like, what were the takeaways that you took
• 16:08
  away from them earlier this year that, you know, helped you, I
• 16:12
  guess going into, you know, a championship setting like like
• 16:14
  USA. So for example, I guess like
• 16:17
  when you go to Rabat and you run 330 like and you finish fourth
• 16:22
  there, I would think. And I think this is something
• 16:25
  that Kyle and I were talking about and Mack we're talking
• 16:27
  about this weekend, that's a different kind of race that you
• 16:31
  have takeaways from then when you go run 334 in Ostrava and
• 16:35
  win. So like, like what?
• 16:37
  What are the pros from both of those races that help you
• 16:40
  towards, you know, building towards the US Championship?
• 16:43
  Rabat I think was, I mean, it's, it's, it's APB like, and that's
• 16:47
  exciting, but I really think like being 4th in that race was,
• 16:52
  was just another like that was a the biggest confirmation that
• 16:57
  I've had yet on like the international stage that, yeah,
• 17:01
  I can compete with these guys because the three guys in front
• 17:03
  of me were yard 327 Nader world champ, Habz 327.
• 17:10
  And I was like 2/10 of a second behind Habz in in 3rd.
• 17:13
  Like, I think it's just a confirmation that like, and we
• 17:19
  we closed in 53. Like it wasn't like a perfectly
• 17:22
  even, you know, 56 is across the board.
• 17:24
  Like we closed fast for 3:30. So yeah, it that was like a
• 17:30
  confirmation that OK, in a race where like there's guys that
• 17:35
  have historically been like levels above me, like, yeah, I'm
• 17:39
  still finishing fourth. I didn't win, but like I'm
• 17:42
  closing the gap to those guys. I believe that I am in training.
• 17:46
  So it's cool to get that sort of confirmation in a race.
• 17:49
  And then Estrava, you know, is a little different where like I
• 17:53
  was pretty confident that I could be upfront.
• 17:55
  Like I took the lead with 500 to go.
• 17:58
  Like Nathan got me by like 7 hundredths of a second at the
• 18:03
  end of the race. Like it was another, you know,
• 18:05
  exciting close race with him. But I think that was a race
• 18:09
  where like coming off Rabat now it's like, OK, I have the
• 18:12
  fastest seed time. Like there's no reason I can't
• 18:14
  try something new. Like go to the front of it
• 18:17
  early, try to control the race and almost got it right
• 18:20
  tactically. But you know, again, you just
• 18:24
  you can when I'm last year I was happy to run 349 in Oslo.
• 18:28
  Like that was cool. This year was like, yeah, 349,
• 18:32
  like felt sort of tactical in Estrada, like I was like judging
• 18:37
  when to go, you know? So even that like year on year
• 18:40
  is like progress just in the race.
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  Don't overcook it. So then overall sizing up and
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  just we'll go chronologically the 1500 first round, I mean,
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  pretty, I, I guess like breakdown for me.
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  I guess like what you took away from the first round that set up
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  the final, because when we looked at just sort of who was
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  going to be in that final, it's like, well, this is anyone's
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  race. To be fair, I sort of wish I'd
• 21:13
  run the final the same way that I ran the first round because I
• 21:15
  really felt strong. Like sort of controlling the
• 21:20
  first round, but my mindset with a little bit was like, I don't
• 21:23
  really want to run like a 70 and then just sort of leave it up to
• 21:27
  chance because that introduces so many variables.
• 21:32
  But I also you only have to get top three to advance.
• 21:36
  Like I just figured go to the front and try to win would be
• 21:39
  the easiest way and I did. And I sort of wish I kept that
• 21:42
  mindset in the final, like, but the same time, I think it's a
• 21:48
  little different when, you know, top 3 isn't the consideration
• 21:52
  anymore. Like you just want to try to
• 21:54
  win. And so it's a little different.
• 21:57
  Like, OK, well, if I go and lead everybody out, like, am I giving
• 22:02
  myself up to just like the kickers right at the end?
• 22:07
  Like, and maybe in hindsight, if I control it the same way as the
• 22:11
  prelim? I mean, Nathan literally did it
• 22:13
  in the final and he did a great job.
• 22:15
  Like just not relinquishing once he decided to take the lead.
• 22:19
  And I think in a race that slow, that's a great strategy and I
• 22:23
  think it was good to learn from it.
• 22:25
  Cuz I, you know, I'm, I'm way more removed from my NCAA years
• 22:31
  than, than some of the guys that I was racing in that final.
• 22:35
  So, you know, like the Harrison, like the NAU kid, like the some
• 22:40
  of the college kids perform real well cuz that's they're still
• 22:44
  used to doing that at regionals and conference champs.
• 22:48
  And you know, it, it was, even though the result didn't go the
• 22:52
  way I wanted to be able to be that close in a race like that,
• 22:56
  sort of like you were touching on earlier, like there's still
• 22:58
  ways for me to spin that positively with, OK, like I
• 23:02
  haven't run a race like that in quite a while.
• 23:05
  All my diamonds, you know, like I've run 2 miles faster than
• 23:08
  that this season. So like to have something that's
• 23:11
  a completely different physical and mental stimulus.
• 23:14
  And obviously you want to win. Like I, I, I really wish I'd,
• 23:19
  you know, managed to do that. But like you can still, I think
• 23:22
  that's still help like thinking about the race the next day,
• 23:25
  like, OK, I just closing 51. I haven't had to do that in
• 23:27
  quite a long time. Like, you know, it's, it's,
• 23:31
  there's still positives there, you know?
• 23:34
  Saturday night, where did you go?
• 23:36
  Who did you talk to? You like, what do you do with
• 23:38
  the hours you know after the race to get yourself back up
• 23:43
  for, you know, the next day when you've got the 5K?
• 23:46
  Luckily, like my my parents and my brother were still there.
• 23:49
  So like, you know, I got dinner with them.
• 23:52
  Like, you know, we like like we just, you know, we talked about
• 23:58
  whatever, like I talked about their day in, in, in New York,
• 24:01
  like, you know, like we didn't like we, we talked about the
• 24:05
  race, but just just, you know, like, just happy to have them.
• 24:10
  They're like happy to have a, a, a a distraction, happy to talk
• 24:14
  about something that's not racing, which I think was good.
• 24:18
  I think that the, the biggest issue that I had was like, you
• 24:21
  know, when most of the races are like these hard efforts from the
• 24:25
  gun, like, you know, you do your you go out in 56, you run your
• 24:30
  whatever and then you do a workout afterwards and then you
• 24:33
  go to bed. And even if you're like all
• 24:34
  caffeinated up, you're pretty tired.
• 24:37
  Like, you know, we ran 300 hard meters and it was AUSA final.
• 24:43
  So like adrenaline's through the roof.
• 24:45
  So like, and I'm not going to do a big workout or anything to
• 24:48
  tire myself out the next day. So like, as much as I tried to
• 24:52
  like relax and like I just was still like, I probably fell
• 24:57
  asleep at like 4. Like I I just couldn't, you
• 25:01
  know, I just couldn't get my mind to.
• 25:04
  And it wasn't even like a you know, it wasn't like a oh, you
• 25:08
  should have done this. Oh, you should have done that.
• 25:09
  Like, yeah, I was replaying the race some.
• 25:12
  But some of it's just that general like, alertness that you
• 25:16
  have for AUS champs that I just couldn't switch off.
• 25:20
  So but I'd also didn't do myself any favors because eventually I
• 25:24
  just like, got on YouTube and then read like the LetsRun right
• 25:29
  up of the race. And they're like, like Vince
• 25:32
  missed his best shot like this. And that like, so yeah, I, I
• 25:38
  could have been better about it, but I did my best to shut my
• 25:41
  brain off. It just it just didn't work.
• 25:43
  So then once it's Saturday, I guess like, and you wake up at
• 25:47
  whatever time it is. If you went to bed at 4:00 and
• 25:49
  you woke up at what? I, I woke up at like close to
• 25:52
  10, so I at least got like, all right.
• 25:55
  I got to, you know, like it wasn't too bad.
• 25:58
  So you wake up at 6:00 and then from there or you got your six
• 26:01
  hours of sleep, wake up at 10 from there, I guess like how did
• 26:04
  you sort of assess your, your chances at this 5K, right?
• 26:09
  Because I guess we look at the start list.
• 26:12
  I don't even remember if like we knew at the time that Grant and
• 26:14
  Woody had had scratched, but you know, they're coming back from
• 26:18
  the 10K and or they were supposed to come back from the
• 26:22
  10K and then there was a slew of other guys who were coming back
• 26:26
  from from the 15. So I mean, there's a scenario
• 26:30
  where, you know, you feel like you put so much into the 1500
• 26:35
  and you just go and run the the 5K and finish 8th.
• 26:38
  But that's not what ended up happening.
• 26:40
  So like, what was the switch, I guess that happens that morning
• 26:44
  to feed into your confidence to potentially win this race?
• 26:47
  I'm I was actually, I just I had a like follow up call with my
• 26:51
  with Shannon, my sports like yesterday.
• 26:54
  And like I talked about this a lot with her.
• 26:56
  Like, you know, after the 15, like I like breezed through drug
• 27:02
  testing like the fastest that I've ever done, which was
• 27:05
  awesome. And then I spent twice as much
• 27:08
  time consoling my mom after drug testing that I did like having
• 27:13
  to go through drug like like, and I was like telling her like,
• 27:16
  Hey, I feel like I executed well, like I've got another race
• 27:19
  tomorrow, like I'm just going to go execute the same way.
• 27:22
  And if I do that, like I'm going to win, like, and that's not
• 27:25
  like, you know, that's not like a disrespect to like who was or
• 27:30
  wasn't like in the race. Like I just felt like, you know,
• 27:34
  I'm not guaranteeing that. I just felt like I could, if I
• 27:38
  did the same thing, if I felt the same way physically and
• 27:41
  executed the same way, then I felt like I'd have a chance.
• 27:45
  And but I wasn't even like before the 1500, I wasn't really
• 27:49
  that vocal about it. I was just like, OK, you know, I
• 27:52
  know I have a chance to win internally.
• 27:54
  Like that's enough, but I think being a little more vocal about
• 27:59
  it, like with my like mom and with my like Vt like group chat,
• 28:03
  like, like I think it helped because I, you know, we talk a
• 28:07
  lot about like being process oriented.
• 28:10
  And I think this was a scenario where I think being a little
• 28:14
  more vocal about the outcome helped fuel the process.
• 28:18
  If I hadn't really had that mindset of like, God, I was so
• 28:21
  close in the 15, like if I could just execute the same way I can
• 28:24
  try to win again, like, and just been like, we'll see what
• 28:28
  happens. Like I was specific with what I
• 28:31
  wanted and then I let that sort of fuel my belief in the race
• 28:36
  rather than like adding pressure to the race, if that makes
• 28:40
  sense. Like I feel like it helped
• 28:42
  create that belief that Oh yeah. Like, why can't we try to go
• 28:47
  and, and, and, and do this? So, yeah, like I, I think that
• 28:52
  the switch happened pretty quickly after the 1500.
• 28:56
  And then, you know, luckily, like I, I warmed up and my body
• 29:01
  felt fine. Like, and I just, it's a
• 29:05
  combination of like that motivation plus being a lot more
• 29:08
  relaxed in terms of like, you know, I'm not a 5K guy.
• 29:12
  Like there's no pressure on me. Like I was the top seed in the
• 29:15
  1500. And whether or not other people
• 29:17
  knew that, I know that internally to me that means like
• 29:21
  I got a real shot here. Like going in the 5K was just
• 29:23
  like I run 15 hundreds all year. I've run 15K in the last five
• 29:27
  years. Like, you know, if I do great,
• 29:30
  it's awesome. And if I don't, I'm not a 5K
• 29:32
  guy. Like there's a a baked in excuse
• 29:35
  like right there. So yeah.
• 29:38
  Yeah, I, I had to look it up. I was like, wait, what?
• 29:40
  Before this, 'cause I forgot about, well, you had to qualify
• 29:43
  somewhere. So that was Stanford in May,
• 29:48
  early May, That's where you ran 1313.
• 29:51
  Then we have to go back to like what the pandemic, right For
• 29:55
  20/20 for your previous 5K. And someone noted this in our
• 30:01
  group chat. I think it was Merbur where he
• 30:03
  said like kind of funny right now that like the US 5K champ
• 30:06
  ran NCAA crossed just one time and was 190 way back in the day.
• 30:13
  So how did you feel that just sort of your, your, your
• 30:17
  strength, I guess up until this point?
• 30:19
  Yeah, yeah. No, I felt that was the thing
• 30:22
  I've I've, I mean, it wasn't. I think my confidence in the
• 30:25
  race wasn't based on nothing. Like I think for me running that
• 30:30
  1313 and Peyton Jordan, like I in my trajectory of my career,
• 30:37
  that was a big deal. Like in the grand scheme of
• 30:39
  running, not a big deal. Like, you know, my competitors
• 30:43
  in in in the five, like my 1500 competitors are capable of much
• 30:50
  faster in the five Ki mean Cole's the world champ in the
• 30:52
  5K, you know, but at the same time, like you have to take the
• 30:56
  cue from those guys. Like, OK, all these 1500 guys
• 31:01
  are not only training like 5K guys, doing the double
• 31:05
  threshold, getting in a good volume of, you know, aerobic
• 31:08
  work, but they're racing them at a highly competitive level.
• 31:11
  So, you know, I don't think we decide to do Peyton Jordan
• 31:15
  specifically to qualify for USAS, but we thought like, OK,
• 31:19
  if this goes well, then you come back for USAS.
• 31:23
  You know, you run a time trial ish type of race and then get a
• 31:26
  chance to do it at USA's and like, you know, work on that
• 31:31
  championship longer distance race is only going to help when
• 31:35
  you come back to the 1500s. Like I think it was just Payton
• 31:39
  Jordan was just sort of like an objective measure for me of like
• 31:43
  I couldn't have done this last year or in 2024.
• 31:46
  Like, you know, like maybe I could have been 1325 or 1330,
• 31:51
  but like I came off of that race thinking that I had more in the
• 31:55
  tank, like, and it was a really good feeling about like, you
• 32:00
  know, I've been up here in flag at for over three years now and
• 32:05
  I don't think that sort of strength would have been there
• 32:07
  if I hadn't been here. So it's a sort of, you know,
• 32:11
  even more than the 1500 results was a sort of good indicator
• 32:16
  like, OK, like you're stronger than you were before.
• 32:20
  It's an objective measure of that.
• 32:22
  Like no reason we can't translate that to A to a
• 32:25
  championship setting. Ends up being a 1346 race.
• 32:29
  So what's the point of the race where you start to lick your
• 32:34
  chops and be like, all right, this is this is falling into
• 32:37
  into my, like right into my hands.
• 32:40
  I don't know if I would have said I would have gone that far,
• 32:43
  but like, I did feel like, OK, like, I mean, we're out there
• 32:47
  like jogging. Like, you know, I, I, I, I just
• 32:50
  felt like I was very conscientious of like, if I do
• 32:56
  feel like I use as little energy as possible until the last, like
• 33:00
  until whatever move is made that I feel like that's the move
• 33:04
  that's going to stick, then I'll have a good shot.
• 33:07
  Like as long as that move is within the last, you know, mile
• 33:10
  or so. And it was funny, like I was
• 33:12
  talking, you know, I thought Grant was running until like we
• 33:16
  warmed up and learned that he wasn't.
• 33:18
  And like, in the week prior, I was on an easy run with Casey or
• 33:24
  Matt or probably I think it was Casey like talking about all
• 33:27
  like, you know, like, I think it'll be tough if Grant goes
• 33:32
  with a mile to go and like closes in sub four.
• 33:34
  Like I feel like I have a a tough time dealing with that.
• 33:38
  And like I was so in the race, like you don't even think about
• 33:44
  like what's going on and then you look back and you close in
• 33:48
  357. It's like the exact thing that I
• 33:50
  was like, oh man, I'm really going to have trouble if this
• 33:52
  happens. So like I think just like, I
• 33:58
  don't know if there was a specific moment, but I will say
• 34:01
  like with 2:50 to go when like Casey came by, that was such a
• 34:06
  good boost because like that's my guy, that's who I've been
• 34:08
  training with. Like I got to go up there like
• 34:11
  with him. And when we're 1/2 with like 100
• 34:13
  to go, I'm like, Oh my God, like we're going to go 12 like and
• 34:17
  it's going to be awesome. So I think like I was, I mean, I
• 34:21
  was moving my way up, but him making that move like really
• 34:24
  snapped me into like, it's, you know, it's go time now.
• 34:27
  Like and yeah, it was exciting to like be side by side in that
• 34:32
  scenario. Yeah, I'm looking at all the
• 34:34
  names that ended up there. It's and, and this is something
• 34:36
  that I think that we noted like over the weekend is like so many
• 34:39
  of these guys are like you think of as 1500 guys.
• 34:42
  But Cooper's I think like the Cooper and Tom Ratcliffe are
• 34:45
  maybe like the two who have committed more to the 5K in the
• 34:48
  last like 2 years or so. It's now it just sort of starts
• 34:52
  to beg the question, like, have you started to give it?
• 34:55
  I think a little bit more thought of like, I love the the
• 34:58
  1500. It's bringing you so many
• 35:00
  awesome moments, but it's like, is there more of a future in the
• 35:03
  5K? Yeah, like I can, I can only I
• 35:07
  the thing with the the race this past week, like I can only race
• 35:10
  who's on the track. Like if Nico Parker, Graham,
• 35:15
  like like if you know, Grant, like Abdi, like there's so many
• 35:22
  like really high level 5K guys in the US that like weren't
• 35:26
  there. And I obviously recognize that
• 35:28
  like same thing in the in the 15 too.
• 35:30
  Like, like I'm not going to, you know, I'm definitely gaining
• 35:35
  confidence from this. Am I going to gain confidence to
• 35:38
  the point where I'm like, OK, well, all these guys that have
• 35:39
  run 12:45, I'm suddenly going to be competitive with them?
• 35:43
  Like probably not. But I do think like sort of what
• 35:47
  I was talking about before, we're going to keep training the
• 35:49
  same way. You know, I'm hopefully going to
• 35:51
  stay on the same sort of healthy and consistent trajectory that
• 35:55
  I've been on. And, and, and we train very
• 35:58
  aerobically up here. And, and I think that's going to
• 36:00
  result in, yeah, I'd love to take a crack at 13 O 5 or
• 36:05
  whatever, like sub 13. Like might be a tough ask, but
• 36:11
  like, if you told me this year I'd run 1313, I wouldn't have
• 36:14
  believed you. So, you know, I want to keep it.
• 36:18
  I don't want to get too much into expectations as much as I
• 36:22
  just want to trust the process that's got me this far.
• 36:25
  And like, yeah, I definitely would have been telling you that
• 36:28
  I would have won a championship 5K.
• 36:30
  So that's really awesome. And and it does bode well for
• 36:33
  like, you know, racing more of them in the future.
• 36:36
  I'm sure that's going to be a little more of a, a, a focus
• 36:40
  like whether or not it, you know, I would not expect it to
• 36:45
  shift things away from the 15 as much as it just adds confidence
• 36:51
  like to the overall fitness and overall races that I feel like I
• 36:55
  can be competitive in, which is exciting.
• 36:58
  Yes, if we're thinking of so many of these things as like
• 37:00
  boxes that you're checking and these tools that you're adding
• 37:03
  to the toolkit, like what, what's 1 of the next things that
• 37:07
  now you're looking at when you're reviewing the season,
• 37:10
  reviewing this weekend and you have hopes of, you know, Diamond
• 37:14
  League final, potentially like World Ultimate Championships?
• 37:17
  Like what are some of the things you want to work on when we've
• 37:19
  got a couple weeks of training ahead before the European season
• 37:25
  resumes? Like then you'll get some extra
• 37:28
  reps and then it's championship season.
• 37:29
  Like what are some of the things that you kind of want to?
• 37:32
  What's the next box to check? Yeah, no, that's a great
• 37:35
  question. I think the next box to to to
• 37:38
  check is, is translate winning a important race into the belief
• 37:45
  that I can win other important races.
• 37:48
  Like it's been, you know, like not to say like, I mean, the US
• 37:53
  Rd. titles were important races to me like, and to other people,
• 37:57
  but I think like winning a title on the track is definitely like
• 38:01
  a different echelon of like confidence.
• 38:05
  So I think like bringing that, yes, it was the 5K and it wasn't
• 38:09
  the 15, but like I just again, in my own journey, I know the
• 38:14
  sort of internal importance of that.
• 38:16
  So I want to try to bring that mindset into Celestia and into
• 38:20
  these other races, but particularly like the World Rd.
• 38:24
  champs. It was like my big goal this
• 38:27
  whole year like that and and and and world indoors, like I and I
• 38:32
  Miss World indoors by however many hundreds of a second.
• 38:36
  So like to make the road team meant so much and like it's so
• 38:40
  it was been so beneficial because it's the last thing.
• 38:44
  So like I have, I've had five months worth not three months
• 38:47
  now, but 5 total months knowing that I have that on the horizon
• 38:51
  and every race in the interim can sort of be like, what did I
• 38:54
  learn from this? What did I learn from this?
• 38:56
  How does it translate to that? Like, I'm just really excited
• 38:59
  for the prospect of like being fully peaked, fully ready to go
• 39:04
  for that. Like having these added
• 39:08
  successes along the way, like, you know, the Diamond League
• 39:11
  final and the ultimate. Like I don't think there's a lot
• 39:14
  of, I'm excited. I just want to go and mix it up.
• 39:17
  Like there's not a lot of pressure on those because I
• 39:19
  didn't expect those things at the start of the year.
• 39:22
  Like and now that they're there, that's awesome.
• 39:25
  They're another like high level prep for the World Rd.
• 39:30
  Mile. But I want to go into the World
• 39:32
  Rd. Mile and try to win.
• 39:34
  Like that's been my goal since the US Rd. champs.
• 39:37
  Obviously yard's going to be there.
• 39:38
  Who's one of the best Smilers in the world right now?
• 39:42
  I'm sure there's going to be a super strong field there.
• 39:45
  And I'm excited about that. Like, I've never had the chance
• 39:48
  to win the to, to wear the Team USA uniform before.
• 39:51
  So my toolbox until then is almost more mental than it is
• 39:58
  physical. Like, OK, translate these things
• 40:01
  from the first half of the season, if you want to call it
• 40:03
  that. Take all of that confidence and
• 40:06
  like, translate it into that day.
• 40:10
  Like being strong, committing, trying to win.
• 40:15
  Like showing up for your first two USA as the best version of
• 40:20
  yourself with all these things you've learned this season so
• 40:22
  far. I think that's awesome.
• 40:24
  And I, I had to go back and, and, and look that there's,
• 40:29
  you've never worn the Team USA kit for like a like a Pan Am
• 40:32
  games or anything like that. And so this is this is gonna be
• 40:35
  the first time. Yeah, I in in 2023 I got like
• 40:40
  selected for like the world, like the world cross in in is in
• 40:46
  Bathurst. But I was like, I was, this was
• 40:50
  when I was in between OTC and hadn't moved to flag yet.
• 40:53
  It was like probably the one of the lowest competitive and
• 40:57
  health points of my career. And like I was banged up and it
• 41:00
  felt bad, but I was like it was for the, it was for like the
• 41:03
  relay. And I was like, I'm not going to
• 41:05
  show up injured like I like. So I had I as the meme goes
• 41:10
  these days, I turned it down. But yeah, like didn't do that.
• 41:16
  And and I've come close a number of times.
• 41:19
  So, yeah, I mean, would I have liked to make US teams when I
• 41:25
  was like 20? Yes.
• 41:26
  But is it going to be a little sweeter that I'm 31 and finally
• 41:31
  doing something that, you know, it just makes it, it, it, it, it
• 41:34
  makes committing to this sport for as long as I have feel, you
• 41:40
  know, I would have been at peace with it.
• 41:42
  But it makes it feel a lot more justified that like I'm now
• 41:45
  finally getting opportunities like this that I believed would,
• 41:50
  would, would happen at some point down the line.
• 41:54
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• 43:23
  comment section. Happy running.
• 43:28
  I I take it you're a guy? Who kind of processes, you know,
• 43:31
  these races and these goal? Target races like in chunks,
• 43:36
  like you're not necessarily I obviously everyone builds their
• 43:40
  whole life around Olympic cycles and the trials, but it's sort of
• 43:45
  like you're not mentally exhausting yourself with
• 43:48
  stressing over like how that race is going to go, who's going
• 43:50
  to be there, like which shape you're going to have to be
• 43:52
  there. So it's like, how do, like do
• 43:55
  you, how do you keep the trials like at an arm's length while
• 43:58
  also at the same time knowing that all of this builds towards
• 44:01
  that? Yeah, no, that's a really good
• 44:04
  question. Especially like having been 4th
• 44:07
  at the, you know, I feel like that is definitely a narrative
• 44:09
  when you, when you get 4th, you like the, you know, within 10
• 44:14
  minutes of that, it's like, OK, well, four years till the next
• 44:18
  one. Like like what do I, what do I
• 44:20
  do in the interim? But yeah, I think I just think
• 44:26
  for me it almost works in my favor that like I'm still like,
• 44:30
  again, I know that I've in general been at a getting to a
• 44:35
  higher and higher level in the sport, but like I even had the
• 44:39
  these international opportunities like yes, the
• 44:42
  diamond lease, but like not a Team USA international
• 44:46
  opportunity. So it almost I feel like it
• 44:48
  works in my favor a little bit that like if I get to run the
• 44:53
  road champs, like I can focus, I can, you know, really just focus
• 44:57
  on that. And like after that, think,
• 45:00
  think, OK, like what did I take from that experience that builds
• 45:04
  towards hopefully being in LA of 2028, but not thinking about
• 45:09
  like, oh, like, you know, I'm gonna, you know, use the off
• 45:14
  year or whatever. Like at my age and with my like
• 45:19
  relative lack of international experience, like there's no off
• 45:23
  year. But at the same time, like I
• 45:25
  think that's making me better. Like I've been very committed
• 45:29
  this year, very healthy, very consistent.
• 45:32
  And yeah, I mean that I, you know, I, I had no reason why to
• 45:39
  believe that I can't. If I can't, if I can do that for
• 45:42
  two more years, like why not? Why can't I be there?
• 45:46
  So, but I think, I think for me that the the sort of in my own
• 45:52
  trajectory, like the sort of enhanced like meaning of those
• 45:57
  other opportunities that maybe aren't the same as an Olympics.
• 46:00
  Like to me, like just getting that singlet on it at the World
• 46:04
  Rd. Champs means a hell of a lot
• 46:06
  like and it might, you know, if I'd already been in a world
• 46:10
  outdoors or whatever. Like maybe it's not the same,
• 46:13
  but to me it just means so much. Like, you know, it's easy to to
• 46:18
  to keep the focus on these sort of like closer term things.
• 46:22
  I mean, I'm just thinking through the schedule and I think
• 46:24
  like you may have to wear the USA uniform at World Ultimates
• 46:28
  if you stay in the quota and, and, and get the chance to go
• 46:30
  there. So that that'll be the first
• 46:32
  time too, yeah. Yeah, and I mean, that would be
• 46:34
  awesome. I mean, that'd be great.
• 46:35
  I mean, that's, you know, as good as the Diamond.
• 46:38
  I mean, with that field like is inevitably going to be the best
• 46:41
  race I've ever been in. So yeah, I really hope that I
• 46:45
  can. You know, we, we, I think we,
• 46:48
  I'm, I'm, you know, I'm pretty happy with, with, with how, you
• 46:51
  know, Steven, like like my coach Steven Hawes and I have
• 46:57
  structure this year in terms of like, you know, you don't have
• 47:01
  to like peak specifically for USA is like we got just ready
• 47:05
  enough for the US Rd. champs. They're obviously very early.
• 47:08
  Like we got just ready enough where we're new.
• 47:11
  We were fit enough. We could be competitive and make
• 47:13
  the team like we did it. Box ticked next, like you get
• 47:17
  the good training in, you sort of commit to this mid season
• 47:21
  Diamond League racing schedule with the idea that you can try
• 47:24
  to qualify for the final, try to qualify for the ultimate and put
• 47:29
  ourselves like, I'm not, it's not guaranteed, but I put myself
• 47:32
  in a position to do those things like box ticked, like come back,
• 47:36
  get some training in before the postseason, include Usas in
• 47:40
  there because to me, I've never won one.
• 47:42
  It's worth going contract wise, it's worth going experience
• 47:47
  wise, try to win. Like was it the way I expected?
• 47:51
  Absolutely not. Did it happen?
• 47:53
  Yeah. So that's awesome.
• 47:54
  Like box ticks. So I feel like, you know, I've,
• 47:57
  I've never had a year like this with like, you know, I'm and I'm
• 48:01
  not taking it for granted by any means.
• 48:03
  Like I'm, I'm still not a, a, a world beater or whatever, but
• 48:09
  like it, I, I having these, having a year like this has just
• 48:14
  been great. And I really think like, you
• 48:16
  know, again, if I didn't have these things that meant a lot to
• 48:20
  me to focus on like probably wouldn't be as fit as I am.
• 48:24
  And you build off that fitness in the next year and in the next
• 48:27
  year and then the trials are there.
• 48:28
  So, you know, I think it works in my favor to have have these
• 48:33
  things that I've cared about this year for sure.
• 48:37
  I like looking at an athlete's sort of like history and seeing
• 48:40
  like, you know, the coaches that they've had along the way.
• 48:44
  And so then when I was looking at yours, it's like if, you
• 48:47
  know, if we go college to pro, like it's it's, you know, a
• 48:51
  fantastic cast of Ben Thomas, Mark Rowland, Steven Haas, But I
• 48:55
  kind of want to go back to high school.
• 48:56
  Marilyn Bevins, your was your high school coach.
• 48:59
  Yes, Sir. What, what's the biggest lesson
• 49:03
  you or, or, or best piece of advice, I guess that you took
• 49:06
  away from her 'cause like for me, having just written a book
• 49:09
  about the marathon, that's I, there is a chapter I have of,
• 49:13
  you know, on her in there because I think, you know, I, I,
• 49:17
  there's, I, I chose to put together this list of like the
• 49:21
  26 like defining marathons in American history and every
• 49:25
  athlete on the list can only get one.
• 49:27
  So that made some decisions tougher, like which one do I
• 49:31
  pick for Frank Shorter, 72 or 76 or Bill Rogers has all those New
• 49:36
  York's and and Boston's or what's Joni getting Joni's is
• 49:39
  pretty obvious, but you know, I in in for a big chunk of that
• 49:43
  list. I also wanted to find
• 49:45
  performances that were very much under the radar and that like a
• 49:49
  lot of people, especially thinking of the running
• 49:52
  population now that that, you know, those people who found
• 49:56
  running in the last five years who love the event but don't
• 49:58
  necessarily know the history, they may not know of Marilyn
• 50:02
  Bevins's. Was it 1975?
• 50:05
  It may have been. I have to go back and look.
• 50:07
  But that's where she finished fourth.
• 50:10
  So I picked the one where 77, I think is when she was second.
• 50:13
  But but 75 was when she finished fourth and broke 3 hours for the
• 50:18
  first time. And why was that so momentous?
• 50:21
  Is that that's the first time, you know, an African American
• 50:24
  woman broke three hours. And from there there was also
• 50:28
  just sort of record keeping of, you know, you know, black
• 50:32
  American women who have accomplished that feat.
• 50:35
  And so she's the pioneer in that sense.
• 50:37
  And so getting to, you know, read as much as I could about
• 50:41
  that race was like, super, you know, super cool.
• 50:46
  And like, it's something that I'm hoping to educate folks on.
• 50:49
  But when I stumbled upon that, just sort of been looking and
• 50:52
  seeing like, wait, Marilyn Bevins coached Vince Ciattei in
• 50:55
  high school. And so I was like, oh, what a
• 50:56
  cool tie to history here. Yeah.
• 50:59
  Oh, no, I, I, yeah, I mean, and I couldn't have, I mean, I
• 51:03
  didn't know anything about running like, you know, in high
• 51:05
  school. So I couldn't even like until I
• 51:08
  was a probably a junior senior, like and like started like, you
• 51:14
  know, truly getting the running bug and learning more about
• 51:18
  running and talking to her about like running like beyond just
• 51:23
  like coming to practice and being a high school freshman or
• 51:26
  sophomore. Like could I really, like gain
• 51:29
  an appreciation for that? Like, but I'm, yeah, I mean,
• 51:32
  like so lucky to have like somehow had that like be my, you
• 51:37
  know, I, I think that's a that's a, you know, like that's just
• 51:42
  one of those things where like, OK, well, you know, this is how
• 51:45
  you started out. Like it makes sense that you
• 51:48
  somehow committed the next 15 years of your life to to the
• 51:51
  sport. Like, I think she was just, I
• 51:56
  think I think the biggest thing that I like, like took from her
• 51:59
  was just like, like, like just being like a competitor.
• 52:04
  Like, you know, she like, cuz in her career, like she's competing
• 52:09
  against like far greater odds than just showing up in the
• 52:12
  start, like racing the people around you.
• 52:15
  Like she's got like so many hurdles to clear before you even
• 52:19
  get to the start line. Like with, I mean, she's just
• 52:22
  like a legitimate trailblazer in the sport.
• 52:26
  So and yeah, extremely underrated as a, you know, in
• 52:29
  terms of like the pantheon of, of, of, of American distance
• 52:35
  running. And yeah, like, I, I mean, it's,
• 52:39
  it's, it's so cool to be able to say that, you know, she was my
• 52:43
  coach. Like it, it's, it's awesome.
• 52:45
  So I think like, and you know, we didn't, you know it, it was
• 52:50
  definitely more of like a, a, I look back on it and I'm, I'm,
• 52:55
  I'm happy with it because it was more of a, like a relationship
• 52:59
  with the sport, sort of like coaching than like we weren't
• 53:04
  technical. We weren't running 70 miles a
• 53:07
  week like, but was learning to race like, and I was learning to
• 53:12
  compete and I was learning to love the sport.
• 53:16
  And I think those things are much longer term healthy things
• 53:24
  to build when you're, you know, a new kid in the sport, then
• 53:29
  maybe, you know, other like more technical training centric
• 53:35
  things. So I'm yeah, so grateful that
• 53:38
  I'm, I'm glad you brought that up because yeah, it's just a
• 53:41
  really it's, it was such a cool thing to happen like right at
• 53:45
  the start of my any relationship with running so.
• 53:49
  Yeah. So then you go on to Ben Thomas,
• 53:52
  then Mark Roland and now pass. Like, how are they all
• 53:55
  different? And like what?
• 53:57
  What did they each sort of get out of you to make you the
• 54:00
  athlete that you are? Yeah, I mean, I've been lucky
• 54:04
  with that too, because I feel like I've I've I've, I've had
• 54:08
  each of those coaches like the most relevant point in my career
• 54:14
  to have them. Like where you know, having
• 54:16
  Coach Thomas like super involved with like everything like it's
• 54:22
  like if you're there, you're like you're bought into this
• 54:25
  program, which is a great program, obviously, but you're
• 54:29
  bought in, you're locked in and like you've sort of like learn
• 54:34
  what works through just doing the training, if that makes
• 54:38
  sense. And then moving to coach Roe as
• 54:41
  a pro, like he was still like pretty detail oriented around
• 54:45
  the sessions, around the weight lifting, but he also wanted you
• 54:48
  to have a little more individual license over like your, you
• 54:53
  know, what you wanted to do with the training, like how much
• 54:55
  mileage you wanted to do around the workouts and stuff like
• 54:58
  that. And I think as a, you know, as
• 55:02
  someone in a very like very structured Virginia Tech
• 55:06
  environment to be a new pro, it was a good balance of like still
• 55:12
  having an amount of structure when Roe was there.
• 55:14
  But then like learning, OK, what works a little better for me,
• 55:18
  like outside of the just the workouts and the lifts.
• 55:22
  And then with has, you know, by the time I got here to
• 55:26
  Flagstaff, like I'd already been a, a, a pro for four years.
• 55:30
  So I think like I got here, you have a lot of individual license
• 55:35
  about like, you know, hey, like there's a back and forth about a
• 55:40
  lot of the training we do. Like when do we want to do this?
• 55:43
  You know, why do we want to do this?
• 55:45
  And I think having, you know, been a collegiate athlete for
• 55:49
  five years and a pro athlete at that point, I know my body a lot
• 55:53
  better and I understand the intent a lot better about like,
• 55:57
  OK, what are we doing? And now like, yeah, I can go,
• 56:01
  OK, like, well, if we're doing this race, like why don't we do
• 56:04
  this? Why don't we do this?
• 56:05
  And yeah, has, I feel like Haas a really good like level of like
• 56:10
  when he is going to go like, you know, this is what we're going
• 56:13
  to do for the next three weeks versus like, OK, we're not like
• 56:18
  what, what do you feel like about this or this?
• 56:21
  And, you know, it's, it's been working really, really well for
• 56:25
  me and for a ton of the Dark Sky team, like our, you know, the
• 56:30
  Under Armour Dark Sky Distance and Flagstaff.
• 56:33
  Maybe it's just chip on the shoulder sort of thing.
• 56:35
  But I still feel like we're quite underrated as a team.
• 56:38
  Like I really feel like our depth is pretty, pretty awesome.
• 56:41
  So it's, it's just cool to be a part of that.
• 56:42
  It's a cool to like, like go to USAS and, and, and do that like
• 56:47
  and stamp Under Armour right there is like national champ.
• 56:51
  That's awesome. All right.
• 56:53
  So my final question is, I guess now winning your first national
• 56:56
  title on the track at 31, is there something that you wish
• 57:04
  you would have heard from like your 2526 year old version of
• 57:10
  you? Like who's like kind of banging
• 57:12
  his head on like being so close and like what?
• 57:18
  What is it that you think you have the maturity and experience
• 57:21
  now that you wish your, you know, previous version of
• 57:25
  yourself would have would have heard?
• 57:27
  I think the biggest thing is like appreciate the the progress
• 57:32
  for what it is. Like I, I, you know, I only got
• 57:37
  good at the end of my college, like I was only good enough to
• 57:40
  GoPro at in my fifth year. Like if I hadn't taken a fifth
• 57:44
  year, I wouldn't have even been a professional athlete.
• 57:46
  So like, you know, I and then I was injured straight away as a
• 57:51
  pro. So I feel like even getting to
• 57:54
  the start line at USA is like in the fall of 2018, that seemed
• 57:59
  like that might never happen. Like, and I think it's not a
• 58:03
  guarantee that I could have won. That's also not a guarantee that
• 58:07
  I could have had those close calls and been competitive.
• 58:10
  So I feel like having a little bit more.
• 58:12
  I mean, I think overall I still did that, which is why I'm still
• 58:15
  here. But I think I would beat myself
• 58:17
  up a lot more about like disappointments when around that
• 58:22
  age. And I think just give yourself a
• 58:24
  little more grace about like, I think that's important for
• 58:27
  anyone like if, if you if you really need to like appreciate
• 58:32
  the positives of any race and any experience if you want to
• 58:37
  continue growth in the sport. I think that's the biggest thing
• 58:42
  that I've learned to do. And like, you know, this past
• 58:46
  weekend was a pretty good microcosm example of like have
• 58:50
  having to do that within 24 hours.
• 58:52
  And you know, over 8 years as a pro athlete, I've learned to do
• 58:55
  that a lot better. And then in the span of one day,
• 58:58
  it was a very relevant skill. Well done, well said.
• 59:04
  And I think it also just hit me because I went back and I just
• 59:08
  like clicked on your your 5th year.
• 59:11
  This this kind of ties together so many things that have been
• 59:14
  kind of in the news within the Track World within like the last
• 59:17
  month or so. So it's a variety of different
• 59:19
  things. It's you after winning your
• 59:21
  national title, it's converted mile times because I'm pretty
• 59:25
  sure what that 359 from Winston Salem in 2018 is what got you to
• 59:30
  the national championships. And so nowadays they wouldn't
• 59:33
  let that in. And then two, you go on to the
• 59:37
  OR the three, you go on to the NCA championships and you finish
• 59:40
  second, not only to to Josh Kerr, who just broke the mile
• 59:44
  world record. So it's like funny how I just
• 59:47
  like scrolled back to 2018 and I'm like, wait, all those things
• 59:50
  that have been relevant in the last couple weeks also, you
• 59:54
  know, were a thing back in 2018. So super funny.
• 59:58
  Yeah. It's, it's been a long, a long
• 1:00:01
  process, Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:00:04
  Well, Vince, I appreciate you taking the time for this and
• 1:00:07
  looking forward to seeing you back on the circuit, you know,
• 1:00:09
  next month and hoping for for. Big things come, you know, the
• 1:00:15
  potentially the Diamond League final World Ultimate
• 1:00:17
  Championships and then of course world road running champs.
• 1:00:20
  Thank you so much, Chris. I appreciate you having me.
• 1:00:22
  This is awesome. Thank you.
• 1:00:25
  Alright, that's a wrap on today's episode.
• 1:00:27
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• 1:00:30
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• 1:00:33
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• 1:00:36
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• 1:00:38
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• 1:00:41
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