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‘Outrageous sexism’ behind Mamamia pile-on · The Front

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: It's Monday, July twenty seven, twenty twenty six. Unions will
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: push for the newly announced Fair Work Court to handle
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: a sweeping array of workplace issues, including dismissal disputes. A
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: bright young man gets a big new job in media
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: and it triggers an epic pylon. Plus another bright young
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: man gets rejected by his own would be co host
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: for his own big new job in media. It's Monday,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: and Steve Jackson's here to discuss his media diary and
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: all the big yarns in news and entertainment. Jacko's here
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: in just a moment. Steve Jackson edits The Australian's media
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: diary and I've dragged him in here basically because I
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: want to give you a.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Lecture Jacko about time.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: He's not the U said anything, but I've got some
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: I've got feelings about the controversy surrounding Mma.
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  Speaker 3: Miya out louder, Hello and welcome to Mama Maya Out Loud.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: It's what we've are actually talking about on Friday.
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  Speaker 1: Mia Friedman, the founder of Mama Maya, along with her
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  Speaker 1: husband Jason Levine, have announced that the new CEO of
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  Speaker 1: the organization is going to be their son, Luca Levine,
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  Speaker 1: who's been working in a senior role at the organization
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  Speaker 1: for a while. And this is kicked off some very annoying,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: to my view, chatter on particularly on social media, from
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: people who think that they shouldn't be doing this.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: I'm really happy for this to be a listening portion
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: of the show for me, and just learned from mine.
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  Speaker 2: I see something like this and I have seen it
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: kicking off. Everyone's talking about it, young guy who's now
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: controlling a female voice website. For mine, it's like passing
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: down the family fish and chip shop to your son
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: or your daughter. I don't have an issue with it.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: I think the gender wars are a bit reductive, but
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  Speaker 2: I am a man and I'm prepared to go. We
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  Speaker 2: had out time. I'm here to listen. What are you thinking?
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  Speaker 1: You're a listening to her? Well, I think I agree
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  Speaker 1: with you. I think that it is absolutely Maya and
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  Speaker 1: Jason's right to hand this company to whomever they think
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  Speaker 1: he's going to be best for it. And if that
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  Speaker 1: happens to be their son, well, there are plenty of
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: family businesses around. As you say, he has been working
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: in a senior role. He has been there right at
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: the top, well very close to the top, while they
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: have been absolutely flying. Mama Maya has diversified into a
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: subscription and ad revenue business, so they've diversified their sources
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: of revenue and their podcast at the top of the charts.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Maya Friedman in the meantime, has stepped away from some
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: of her hosting roles and from her kind of operations
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: roles and now just wants to be a content person.
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  Speaker 1: She just wants to be on the podcast kind of
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: talking and doing some writing as well.
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  Speaker 2: Seems fair enough after all those years to go all right,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I'm ready just to do the fun side of the business. Right.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: They pitch themselves as Australians or maybe the world's number
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: one women's media network, and that means that they've got
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: an audience who thinks that they get to have a
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  Speaker 1: say and who runs the show, which I think is
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  Speaker 1: absolutely outrageous. Like, if you like this content, you should
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  Speaker 1: be aware that it has been run by a man
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  Speaker 1: for most of its existence. Jason Levine was the CEO
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  Speaker 1: for the first seventeen years well and now it's an
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: outrage that they're handing it to a man. It's really sexist,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: it's outrageous.
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  Speaker 2: Well, one of the things people have got to remember,
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  Speaker 2: in my view, if I've allowed to say it, is
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: it's Mama Mia. That pun is. Her name's Mia. The
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  Speaker 2: mama part comes from Luca, like he's what made Mia
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  Speaker 2: the mama. So he's sort of like integral to the thing.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: His whole existence is town up in this. But also, Claire,
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  Speaker 2: tell me, do you think is it the fact it's
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: handed over to a next generation of that family or
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: is it because of his gender. If it was MIA's
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  Speaker 2: daughter taking it on, would there be outrage.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Probably not, It would be more like you go, girl,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: you know how exciting. But there certainly has been a
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: thread that he's nepo baby and that he can't possibly
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: have earned this job. I don't know Luke Levine at all.
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  Speaker 1: I've only met me a few times, and I have
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  Speaker 1: absolutely no skin in this game. And it is sensitive
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  Speaker 1: when you are the child of someone who works in
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  Speaker 1: the same industry. But we see that in many industries.
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  Speaker 1: There are families of lawyers, there are families, as you say,
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  Speaker 1: fish and ship owners, families of plumbers. I come from
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  Speaker 1: a media family.
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  Speaker 2: I was going to say, I've met your father when
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  Speaker 2: I was at Channel nine, quite a prominent media family.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Dad was a TV journalist. His uncles were all sports journalists.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Dad's grandfather was a sports journalist, and so was his
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: great grandfather, and so there's a long line of journals.
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  Speaker 1: But I went into newspapers when I was seventeen because
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  Speaker 1: I didn't want anyone to think that I was trying
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: to get a free ride off Dad's reputation. So I
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  Speaker 1: didn't go anywhere near TV. I came and got a
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  Speaker 1: job at The Australian and I worked for free for
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: months and months before they started paying me. I'll put
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: in that expense claim something some time later, but I'm
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: very grateful that I got to have a career in newspapers.
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  Speaker 2: It's easy to forget where Mum and Mia started. I
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: remember fifteen years ago it was basically blog right, it
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: was mea freedman's thoughts. I remember in magazines people like,
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  Speaker 2: ah mea freeman, she's a blog. She's not going to
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  Speaker 2: take over the magazines? What she It's now the behemoth
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: the magazines are on the way. But she worked hard,
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  Speaker 2: her whole life for this. The great backer and supporter
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  Speaker 2: of women's magazines in this country at their peak when
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: they were powerful, and we're talking ASTRAYM, Women's Weekly and
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Women's Day. We know it was the late Kerry Packett.
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  Speaker 2: He really believed in those products. He gave him heaps
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  Speaker 2: of money. But just because a guy's in charge of
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: some element of the business doesn't mean that it's not
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  Speaker 2: a driven for women by women. Right.
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  Speaker 1: There was another controversy when Lee Sales of the ABC
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  Speaker 1: and the very successful women focus podcast Chat ten looks
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  Speaker 1: three shut down a conversation about this in the chat
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  Speaker 1: ten looks three Facebook group. Lee Sales in two instances
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  Speaker 1: stopped discussions happening in that group about you know, basically
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  Speaker 1: bagging me of Friedman for this decision to appoint her
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  Speaker 1: son to be CEO. And Lee said in the group,
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  Speaker 1: you know she's friend, We're not going to have this discussion,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: which again I think is totally fair enough. What gives
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: women this sense of entitlement that they're allowed to just
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  Speaker 1: bag another woman who's made a decision for me. It's
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: like when the Old Boys Club say that women are
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: not allowed to run football clubs, because what would they know.
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  Speaker 2: You know, all women are right in all circumstances at
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  Speaker 2: all times clever, but particularly Lee's sales in this circumstance.
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  Speaker 2: What I really liked about what Lee did there is
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: this is a vituperative industry where everyone and we all
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: know when we go to the pub, if you don't
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  Speaker 2: get the yarn, and you love bagging the person who
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: did get the yard.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: I knew about that.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had that one, but the editor didn't want it.
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  Speaker 2: But what I love is that she just said here
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  Speaker 2: on MySpace, we're not going to be bagging there, Freeman.
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  Speaker 2: She's a friend. I've known Lucas since he was a kid.
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  Speaker 2: I just I love seeing when people stand up for
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  Speaker 2: other people in this industry because it is one of
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: those ones that we're quick to rip people down when
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: there's a mistake, and I think, you know, it's only
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: when stuff like this happens where you see your friends say, hey, no,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not going to stand up with that.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: I really liked how she did that.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: One thing I wonder about the announcement of disappointment for
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: the Mama Mayor organization is did they mishandle the publicity
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  Speaker 1: for it? Mayor Fredman is an expert in doing these
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: get Ready with Me videos where she does in makeup
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  Speaker 1: while talking about something serious. And you know, when you're
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: going to the hairdresser, it feels like there's not much
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  Speaker 1: point in doing your hair, like drying your hair and stuff.
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  Speaker 1: So you know, should they have had Luca kind of
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: doing his hair and flossing his tea announcing why he
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  Speaker 1: was the right person to run the business again, it's
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  Speaker 1: a cea.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, I mean for me, I love writing about the CEOs.
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  Speaker 2: We heard Matt Stanton referring to media watches media week
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  Speaker 2: last week, and I love that. It's hilarious. But I know,
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  Speaker 2: even when I'm writing my column, people want to read
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  Speaker 2: about the people in front of the camera or the
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  Speaker 2: people writing. It's a c oh, Mama Maya. I didn't
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  Speaker 2: even know who was doing it before. I know CEO
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  Speaker 2: is now if you asked me a month ago, who's
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  Speaker 2: the see of Mum and me doesn't have one.
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  Speaker 1: This is the thing. When you create a beloved brand,
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  Speaker 1: I think you also create an audience who feels quite
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: entitled to have an opinion. And you can see why
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: most CEOs want to stay in the background. You're talking
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: about Matt Stanton, the boss of nine Entertainment, at an
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Andrew Oli media lecture sort of symposium moderated by Hamish
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  Speaker 1: McDonald from the ABC and also featuring our boss, Michael
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  Speaker 1: Miller and some other media bosses, including Hu Marks from
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  Speaker 1: the ABC.
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  Speaker 2: Jane Pofferman from the SBS.
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  Speaker 4: We're capitalizing on having some of the brightest minds. They
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: wrote this script on sorry in media in the room
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: under one roof tonight to tackle.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: This critical It's always pretty edgy when you hand microphones
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  Speaker 1: to people who are normally not on camera, you know,
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  Speaker 1: and Matt Stanton was very relaxed. He's leaning back, you know,
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  Speaker 1: he's got his kind of linas and going on.
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  Speaker 2: Leaning back the word I've heard and apologist to mattith
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: he's listening, but slouching.
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: Years smh's one hundred and ninety five years right old.
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: That's continued to evolve, whether it's through TV coming out
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: it radio, coming out of Internet, coming out of AI coming,
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  Speaker 5: it will continue to evolve. We have to change our models,
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: so we've got no issue with that.
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  Speaker 2: I think for at times during that lecture it felt
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: like should have directed questions about Channel ninety Hugh Marx,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: because it's like, hu, Max, can you tell me what's
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: happening at Matt's company? Because Hugh, having been the former
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: nine CEO, obviously still across his brief at the ABC,
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: but he also seemed to know a lot about how
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: things should be going on at nine as well.
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  Speaker 1: He kind of had to jump in and save Matt
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: when Hamish said to Matt, Karl Stefanovic said he was
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: not free before?
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: Was he not free to report at Night nine?
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: Has some the standards that we have within that Today
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: show area, and is a certain standards we have. Kyl
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: had decided and we'd already agreed some time ago that
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: and was leaving us. So it was was moving on and.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: I'll let mister Marks you want to feel that one.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: And you jumped in and said, well, he was not
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: free because he was being held to some broadcast standards
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: and now no standards apply with.
• 10:14
  Speaker 5: His career, and we're absolutely fine with that as well.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: But to your but to your point, the only thing
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: that Carl wasn't free was he had to comply with
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: broadcast standards. Well, that's the whole point I guess that
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: underpins this, this whole purpose and this public good is
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: it's a public good that is defined in every case
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: by standards.
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: So what's the difference between what Kyl does and those standards.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: Well, now Carl obviously is saying he's free of standards
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: and and and so if that's what we want, If
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: that's what.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: We want, He's made quite a few funny one liner
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: is through that. I thought he was quite good.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Coming up auditioning Today Show host sam Armitage is flexing
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: her muscle. That's after the break. What's happening this week
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: on Today.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Well, Samantha Armitage is coming in. She's replacing Sylvia Jeffries.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Mike Willisy Junior, another person who started his career at
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: The Australian, not wanting to follow his dad into television,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: came to the OZS and started his career here. He's
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: getting a second week. The interesting thing is he wasn't
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: going to get a second week, Claire. Up until Wednesday night,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: it was going to be Joel Dry out of Brisbane
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: was going to be flown down. And not only was
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: he going to be flown down for a trial. He
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: was confident he had the job in the bag. How
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: confident you ask? How confident? Sorry, he was so confident.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: He was so confident he was telling everyone in Brisbane, Hey,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: I've even decided I'll do the job for half a
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: million dollars. I'll do it cut price, just to get
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: my foot in the door. And he's telling everybody he's
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: going to be the cut price car. Unfortunately for him,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: my information is Samantha Armitage has gone I don't want
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: cut price car. Well, he can stay in Brisbane and
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: they've got who do you want? And she I don't know,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: but not the dude that's not even back in himself,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: the guy that reckons he's worth twenty five percent of Carl.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: I don't want to hear him like I want someone
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: who thinks they're just as good. So Mike Willison is
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: getting a look what I will call a stay of
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: execution because he's there. He obviously has nothing better to
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: do this week than hang on.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: And host a very high rating TV show that makes
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of money.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, and that's it. As much as we
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: can laugh. This is a show that, with its sister
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: programs Today Extra and Weekend Today, it's worth one hundred
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: million dollars. So getting the chemistry right very important, as
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: you know from that Oli lecture during the week. Matt
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Stanton does admit Nine knew all year that Karl was leaving.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Gets to July. We're talking about one hundred million dollar vehicle.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Who have we got lined up? No one? And you
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: know what, at the start of this year I wrote
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: in media diary that they will wargaming replacements for Carl,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: and Nine called me and said, you know we're not.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: We're not. I go, no, come on, it's one hundred
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: million dollar franchise. Of course you're wargaming. I don't believe it,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: and they get no, no, seriously, there's no war gaming
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: going on. I apologize, no plan. I apologize until last
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: week I called up and said, hey, look, you know
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: when you said you didn't have any plan, I'm sorry.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: You're right, you weren't doing anything. Oh wow, beggars belief.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Thanks Jacket, Thank you.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Steve Jackson. And it's The Australian's Media Diary. You can
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: read it right now at the Australian dot com dot
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: au