Latest / The Bolt Report / The Bolt Report | 8 April

Transcript

The Bolt Report | 8 April · The Bolt Report

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: This is the report tonight. John Howard now praises Ben
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Robert Smith, the war hero charged with shooting unarmed prisoners.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: But I have a question for the former Prime Minister
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: and for Pauline Hanson. Well so tonight climate changements of
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Chris Bone gets angry when challenged today about is net
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: zero agenda when what this war proves is that we
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: really do need fossil fuels.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure how you could as certainly and that
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: the war in Iran is the fault of Australian renewable energy.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: I really don't understand that logic.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: And I'll talk to an Iranian democracy activist who says
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: that Donald Trump please keep bombing, but first and about
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: just that, well, shock and surprise, there's a cease far
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: in the Iran war after just five weeks. Both the
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: US and Iran have agreed to a two weeks cease far. Well,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: they talk piece and the straitor for mussis meanwhile open
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: to oil tankers again. And that's almost bang on the
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: schedule Donald Trump gave on day three of this war.
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: We projected four to five weeks, but we have capability
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: to go far longer than that.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: In fact, is this cease far puts the largest so
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: much of what you were told by Trump hating journalists
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: and politicians and activists and assorted experts. Remember how you
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: were told this would be the forever war, how this
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: was a quagmar, how it was Trump's Vietnam War, with
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Trump having no plan or off ramp. All those predictions
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: which have now been proved wrong. The watch now, you
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: will bet you none of those people are going to
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: admit it. I've actually seen some of them already switching
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: to telling you, Wow, this is no Trump win anyway,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: this is a Trump defeat. So let's look at what
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: actually just happened. Donald Trump, in the past few days
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: made increasingly blood curdling threats to Iran to make a
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: deal and open the straight off moors.
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: Or else every bridge in Iran will be decimated by
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: twelve o'clock tomorrow night, where every power plant in Iran
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: will be out of business, burning, exploding, and never to
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: be used again. I mean complete demolition by twelve o'clock
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: and it'll happen over a period of four hours if
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: we wanted to. We don't want that to happen.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: The last night that came his most lurid warning yet
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: ahead of his deadline today of ten am Australiane since
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: standard time, a threat that a whole civilization will die tonight,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: never to be brought back again. I don't want that
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: to happen, but it probably will, which is typical Trump bluster,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: but it seems to have worked. The Uranian regime believed
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: all these threats enough to turn its citizens into human shields,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: made them stand on bridges and next the power stations,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: and it told even children to turn up or man
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: checkpoints of Around's eternal Bassige security Force, which Israel has
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: been bombing. That's how little this regime respects the lives
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: of even its children.
• 3:26
  Speaker 5: Mamona Barbaja. That's the bat march Ramone, Mamana brugeshwars.
• 3:46
  Speaker 6: And ensigning your javon on task giving sad.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: But Donald Trump's threats and bonds. They worked with most
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: of Around's top leaders dead It's Supreme National Security Council.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: The greed to this cease far just ninety minutes before
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Trump's deadline, and Donald Trump described it like this, subject
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: to the Islamic Republic of Iran agreeing to the complete,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: immediate and safe opening of the straight of wors. I
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: agree to suspend the bombing and attack of Iran for
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: a period of two weeks. We received a ten point
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: proposal from Iran. I believe it is a workable basis
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: and we should negotiate well. In fact, that last bit
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: there was false, as I'll showed later, but Iran Supreme
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: National Security Council described the cease fara like this. If
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: attacks against the Iran I halted, our powerful armed forces
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: will cease their defensive operations. Safe passage through the Strait
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: of Ms will be possible for two weeks under coordination
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: with Iranian forces. And after all that, in the streets
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: of Tehran there were celebrations, although some hardliners there seemed
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: to feel betrayed. The regime had caved.
• 4:56
  Speaker 7: Is the nature of America going to change? I have
• 4:58
  Speaker 7: no idea why they have accept to Like always, they
• 5:01
  Speaker 7: want to buy time for Israel. We have lost our leader.
• 5:05
  Speaker 7: If he himself says so, we will accept. But he
• 5:08
  Speaker 7: has not accepted it. They have forced this on him.
• 5:13
  Speaker 7: Why should we declare sees fire? As you see that
• 5:16
  Speaker 7: is written, the straight of horm Wars will stay close.
• 5:18
  Speaker 8: Why open?
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: But here Donald Trump's threats to destroyer around civilization and
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: bomb it into the Stone Age and be another reason
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: to smash the president again. And I still cannot believe
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: there are journalists and politicians who actually think that Trump
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: means all this stuff literally. You know, they haven't got
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: his style. But if they went hope of ventilating about
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Trump's planned war crimes, even prime minister or anything the
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: other and Easy Today criticized that.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's appropriate to use language such as
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: that from the President of the United States.
• 5:58
  Speaker 9: If that happened, would that be a war crime?
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: On what the president was talking about.
• 6:02
  Speaker 10: Look, it's a long step between a tweet and that suggestion.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Now, at least, officer you're leadering this tale is smart
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: enough to judge Trump. Not nobody says, but what he
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: achieves with it.
• 6:17
  Speaker 6: If President Trump had gone through with the quite amazing
• 6:21
  Speaker 6: threats he made overnight, would.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: They amount it to a war chrome, Well, we've got
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: to a cease fire, and that is what we welcome. Now. Look,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: you'd know as well as I that there's no way
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: that Donald Trump planned to destroy all arounds bridges, all
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: its power stations, and the Iranian civilization. I mean, why
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: would he risk turning Iranian civilians into enemies, with many
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: also do want that regime smashed, as he has said before.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Now that said this cease five, it's not the end
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: of everything. It's not the end of the war, the tension,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: it's absolutely not. For a Sart, Pakistan's prime minister, who
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: helped negotiate this deal said it also meant Israel should
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: stop its war against Hesbelo terrorists in Lebanon. Israel says, no,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: it doesn't. And what's more, Trump is lied about the
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: ten point piece plan. Iran sentiment, it's not a workable
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: basis of a long term peace at all, and Trump
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: cannot be that dumb or desperate to think it is. Now,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: excuse all the textiles show you, but let me just
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: illustrate how crazy most of Iran's dimans really are. It's
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: just some of those ten The regime says, Iran has
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: achieved a massive victory enforced criminal America to accept this
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: ten point plan, which is false. It hasn't. In this
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: plan America is fundamentally committed, which is not to guarantee
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: non aggression, the continuation of Iran's control over the Strait
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: of a Muz, the acceptance of enrichment of uranium. The
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: lifting involved primary and secondary sanctions on Iran, the payment
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: of iran'smages, and withdrawal of US combat forces from the region.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Do you really think the US is going to agree
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: to that? You know, Oh, yes, we will remove all
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: our bases in the Middle East, for instance, give you
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: lots of money for the bombing. And will Iran's hardline
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: is now? It's just that it does so so many
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: issues like that. They're up in the air still, you know,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: will Iran truly that take us through the straight up
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: them was without paying the regime millions of dollars the pass?
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Will we run? Let the US find and remove the
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: uranium it enriched for nuclear weapons? How long before Iran
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: can rebuild its mass missile arsenal? And will the remains
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: of the regime now grow even more savage? So the
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: next two weeks they're going to tell us how serious
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Iran is about peace and how much Trump we'll concede
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: to get it or is he just biding his time?
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: But the bottom line is this, Iran's military and terrorist
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: threat is now a shadow of what it was. And
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: that was the goal that Trump set five weeks ago,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: and it's been accomplished in large part and on schedule.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: So let the Trump haters weep now, Donald Trump agreed
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: to a cease far with Iran, with the regime, they're
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: still clinging onto power, although with many of its top leaders,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: particularly the most dangerous ones like in the Revolutionary Guard
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: called they're dead now. The US President did not promise
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: for regime change, but had clearly hoped for more than
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: he got, and he claimed yesterday that many Iranians Iranians
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: didn't in fact want him to stop the bombing.
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: We've had numerous intercepts, please keep bombing, bombs that are
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: dropping near their homes, Please keep bombing.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Well is that true? Did Donald Trump stop too soon
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: for many Iranians joining me? As Iranian freedom activists and sociologists.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Doctor Samaria Khanni I spoke to a short while ago,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Samaria Canni, thank you so much for joining us again.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: This is ceasefire, but the Iranian regime is still in place.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Do you feel betrayed?
• 10:16
  Speaker 11: Thank you Andrew for having me again.
• 10:18
  Speaker 12: Well, if it was a permanent ceasefire, yes absolutely, But
• 10:23
  Speaker 12: as we know, it's a two week, four fourteen days ceasefire,
• 10:27
  Speaker 12: and we're hoping that Trump and Natania are using this
• 10:32
  Speaker 12: time to strategize their next moves, and that would obviously
• 10:37
  Speaker 12: give the regime some time to build up more strength. However,
• 10:42
  Speaker 12: based on what we're hearing, there's already cracks within and
• 10:47
  Speaker 12: this time might even give them an opportunity to crack
• 10:51
  Speaker 12: even more and give the opportunity to Trump and ntaniaho
• 10:55
  Speaker 12: to bring in troops if that's the plan, or perhaps
• 11:00
  Speaker 12: arming the protesters. That's where how we're analyzing this ceasefire.
• 11:05
  Speaker 12: Otherwise it would be a betrayal to the people of Iran.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Well, I am guessing from that the answer to my
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: next question, which is is Donald Trump right to say
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: that many Iranians wanted the US to keep bombing regime targets.
• 11:23
  Speaker 11: Yes, he is absolutely correct, And it's interesting.
• 11:27
  Speaker 12: The day after he said that, we received messages from
• 11:31
  Speaker 12: Insight from people saying, now we feel like we're heard
• 11:36
  Speaker 12: by the president who sent help to us.
• 11:39
  Speaker 11: We feel good about it.
• 11:41
  Speaker 12: So for the last thirty days, thirty five days since
• 11:44
  Speaker 12: the beginning of the war, what we're hearing from people
• 11:47
  Speaker 12: is please keep bombing, Please keep doing what you're doing,
• 11:51
  Speaker 12: because as you know, most of the targets there are
• 11:55
  Speaker 12: targeted strikes, although civilians are losing their lives sadly in
• 12:00
  Speaker 12: this battle, but because it is targeted, people are.
• 12:03
  Speaker 11: Asking for more of those.
• 12:05
  Speaker 12: And when they stop, when there's no bombs coming over them,
• 12:09
  Speaker 12: they worry. And that's what I've heard from my own family,
• 12:12
  Speaker 12: that we worry when the bombs stop.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned the cracks in the regime.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I've reported some last night as well. What do you
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: expect then to happen inside Iran? Do you think the
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: regime is going to become more oppressive and tyrannical because
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: it feels its power is slipping, or do you think
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: the moderates will somehow if there are moderates moderates is
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: a relative term, the moderates in the regime will take
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: over and push the hardliners aside.
• 12:48
  Speaker 12: Well, there's no sign of that obviously at the moment,
• 12:51
  Speaker 12: because just this morning we received the news that they
• 12:55
  Speaker 12: arrested four hundred just in the last twenty four hours,
• 13:00
  Speaker 12: and every day we wake up with the news of
• 13:03
  Speaker 12: three or four executions again and again from the protesters
• 13:07
  Speaker 12: who were arrested two months ago in January, And yesterday
• 13:11
  Speaker 12: the Chief Judge, the Judiciary Chief judiciary came out and said,
• 13:17
  Speaker 12: we have to make the executions quicker. The trials shouldn't
• 13:21
  Speaker 12: take that long. And by that long they mean one
• 13:24
  Speaker 12: hour of a trial. So they're even asking for more oppression,
• 13:28
  Speaker 12: more suppression, more killing, more executions. And we believe that
• 13:33
  Speaker 12: a wounded regime. If the war stops, and if this
• 13:36
  Speaker 12: ceasefire is a permanent one, this we will be dealing
• 13:41
  Speaker 12: with a wounded wolf who's willing.
• 13:44
  Speaker 11: To kill just to survive. Even more so, yes, it
• 13:49
  Speaker 11: will be more oppressive. There's no sign of moderation.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, I was pinning perhaps too much hope in the
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: fact that it's interesting that men the top leaders of
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: the Revolutionary Guard called which is sort of like a
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: really hard call the fanatics, almost like an iranis. They're
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: being killed, but not the army. The army leadership seems
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: in tax And maybe there's some hope that the army
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: will take control, but I mean it's a faint hope.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Who do you think now is the real leader of Iran?
• 14:20
  Speaker 11: That's an interesting question. I don't believe it's a who.
• 14:23
  Speaker 11: It's a system. It's not one person.
• 14:25
  Speaker 12: Yes, there's Foalibaff, who is believed to be in the
• 14:32
  Speaker 12: front line of negotiations, but he is not the one
• 14:35
  Speaker 12: who's leading. There's no one leading the country. Basically, it's
• 14:39
  Speaker 12: just the IRGC now has found a chance to lead
• 14:43
  Speaker 12: the country to its destruction and the system to its destruction.
• 14:49
  Speaker 12: But there's no who in this whole process. There's no
• 14:54
  Speaker 12: one leading the country. It's just a system.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Garibav being the former mayor of Tehran, speaker of the
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Parliament and deeply corrupt, so I always thought maybe he would,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: you know, he had some ties with the Revolutionary Guard
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: called but I had the feeling that maybe he was
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: the kind of man that would be after himself around
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: the system. But we shall see. Can I just ask
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: you quickly about the big who about Donald Trump saying, well,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: you're threatening to destroy around civilization. The Prime Minister's really
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: upset about that. I saw merely as rhetoric to match
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: the rhetoric of the regime, speaking in a language they understand.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: You know, these flowery threats with no intention of following through.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: But how did you receive it? It wasn't a mistake.
• 15:41
  Speaker 12: So you always have to decode, basically decode what Donald
• 15:45
  Speaker 12: Trump says for me. I side, as when he mentioned civilization.
• 15:51
  Speaker 12: He means the Shiai civilization he's willing to destroy, to civilization,
• 15:56
  Speaker 12: because just two days ago he said that people have.
• 15:59
  Speaker 11: I think that we will leave them alone in this world.
• 16:03
  Speaker 9: We won't.
• 16:04
  Speaker 11: So there are mixed messages.
• 16:07
  Speaker 12: If he meant civilization, he wouldn't have said, I'm here
• 16:10
  Speaker 12: to help the people of Iran.
• 16:12
  Speaker 11: So it's not a mistake. It's, as you said, a
• 16:15
  Speaker 11: play on words, but just to threaten the regime.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Sabaia Khni. Thank you so much, indeed for your time
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: and all the best to you and to Iran's future
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: may be brighter than it's been for so long now
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: forty seven years. Thank you so much for your help.
• 16:33
  Speaker 11: Thank you so much for having me.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: After the break watch climate Change, Mister Chris Bone gets
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: stroppy when he's asked why he hasn't learned a thing
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: from the petrol panic and the war. Chris Bone got
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: into a verbal brawl in his press conference today bones
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: the climate change and she miss and he is driving
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: the Albanesi government's disastrous and the zero agenda. But he
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: still refuses to see that without fossil fuels we are toast.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, just look at the petrol panic. And when
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Channel seven's Liam Bartlett asked why he still hadn't learned
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: that lesson from this Iran war, Bowen arked.
• 17:15
  Speaker 13: Up, I think this war in Iran has shown us
• 17:19
  Speaker 13: nothing else. Hasn't it proved once and for all that
• 17:23
  Speaker 13: your obsession with renewables we'll only leave us out of
• 17:26
  Speaker 13: track to another energy crisis.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: That's a pretty loaded that's a comment, not a question
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: that it was a question. Well, well it's a very
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: loaded it's a very loaded comment.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: What it shows is that we need to continue to
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: work on energy security. I make this point. I reject
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: the premise of your question. Question no, no, I reject
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: it's sorry, are you asking a question or are you
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: having a debate answer?
• 17:51
  Speaker 9: Proper energy must be secure.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Renewable energy is a secure form of energy. The Australian
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Sun cannot be interrupted by a war or anything else.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: The solar energy has to travel one hundred and fifty
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: million kilometers from the Sun. It doesn't have to travel
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: the one hundred and fifty kiometers that are straits or hormones.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Lujas interrupt you. How dishonest or plane done was that?
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: I mean? Boone seems not to understand we do have
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: other forms of energy that also don't have to go
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: through the strait of a mouse. Australian oil doesn't go
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: through it, Australian gas, Australian coal, even Australian uranium, none
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: of them because they're all right here. And as for
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: bones solar and wind power being secure and not interrupted
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: again false solar power is interrupted every night, vanishes wind power.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: It doesn't work without wind. And that is why Bartnet
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: has discovered Chris Bowen is too chicken to do a
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: sit down interview, one on one with someone who will
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: challenge is that zero nonsense? The nonsense is driving power
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: prices through the roof.
• 18:58
  Speaker 11: Why don't you sick out?
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Why don't you sit down?
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: I'm holding a press conference. You've had several questions.
• 19:01
  Speaker 11: I've held a presence of questions.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: What I hold a press conference every day? This is
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: the first time you've turned.
• 19:08
  Speaker 13: For a formal interview instead of you being able to
• 19:10
  Speaker 13: deflect to my colleagues. What are you afraid of talking about.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Your pot I don't think taking questions from a wide
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: diversity of journalists.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: What do we got?
• 19:19
  Speaker 8: You know?
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: Fifteen in the room is not being available. I've been
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: holding a press conference every day.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Join Miss Ron Deine, editor in chief of the Spectator Australia,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: host of Outsiders every Sunday at nine am, hosts of
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: his own show on Fridays at seven pm, and for
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: his main gigas here on Wednesdays Rowan Dean Chris bow
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: And he seems like a man frightened by a few facts.
• 19:44
  Speaker 8: Well well done to Liam Bartlett for pressing the point
• 19:47
  Speaker 8: there and the Apartment's very good journalists. But it must
• 19:50
  Speaker 8: be increasingly appearing to Australians. Most Australians must be realizing
• 19:55
  Speaker 8: that we are being run by a government of duncers.
• 19:58
  Speaker 9: I don't know what the collective now and for duncers is.
• 20:00
  Speaker 9: I was thinking about it.
• 20:01
  Speaker 8: Maybe a bowen of dancers is the best description of
• 20:05
  Speaker 8: the government. That we have a bowen of duncers that
• 20:09
  Speaker 8: really treat the Australian people as complete fools. The patronizing, dissembling, obfuscation,
• 20:17
  Speaker 8: the word trickery that Bowen thought he was so clever
• 20:21
  Speaker 8: and getting away with this afternoon. Any Australian watching that
• 20:24
  Speaker 8: would shake.
• 20:25
  Speaker 9: Their hands in horror. We are being denied.
• 20:28
  Speaker 8: Our energy in this country, and by being denied our energy,
• 20:32
  Speaker 8: we are being denied our prosperity. We have being denied
• 20:34
  Speaker 8: our industry, We're being denied our opportunity. All the things
• 20:38
  Speaker 8: that make us used to make Australia great are being
• 20:40
  Speaker 8: denied us. To call Chris Bowen the Climate change and
• 20:44
  Speaker 8: Energy Minister is actually a lie. He's a climate change
• 20:47
  Speaker 8: minister and he does everything to pursue the insanity of
• 20:50
  Speaker 8: the climate cult obsession with the net zero and doomsday,
• 20:54
  Speaker 8: the world's going to blow up or whatever it is.
• 20:57
  Speaker 8: But he's not doing his job as Energy Minister, which
• 20:59
  Speaker 8: is to make sure that at any point in time,
• 21:02
  Speaker 8: no matter what the circumstances are around the world, we
• 21:05
  Speaker 8: have sufficient energy not only to do the everyday things,
• 21:09
  Speaker 8: but to drive heavy industry, to drive manufacturing, to give
• 21:12
  Speaker 8: us the sort of economic wealth.
• 21:16
  Speaker 9: That our nation deserves. And he's not doing that. And
• 21:21
  Speaker 9: it is what are they afraid of? Ask Liam?
• 21:23
  Speaker 8: What are you afraid of, Chris bow And why won't
• 21:25
  Speaker 8: you sit down and have a rational discussion about is
• 21:28
  Speaker 8: Because there's nothing rational about the position that Chris Bowen takes.
• 21:32
  Speaker 8: It is la la la down this stuff, and therefore
• 21:36
  Speaker 8: he knows the only thing.
• 21:38
  Speaker 9: He can do is these kind of glib silly.
• 21:40
  Speaker 8: Oh you're saying that the Iranian war is because of
• 21:43
  Speaker 8: Australian renewables. No, Liam Bartlett did not say anything like that,
• 21:47
  Speaker 8: But that is the Chris Bowen and now answer responsible questions.
• 21:53
  Speaker 8: I remember when Chris Allman asked him at a press
• 21:55
  Speaker 8: conference so last year a similar question about net zero,
• 21:59
  Speaker 8: and all Bowen could do was say, well, we'll agree
• 22:02
  Speaker 8: to disagree on this.
• 22:03
  Speaker 9: You're an idea logue and I'm not when of course
• 22:05
  Speaker 9: they are.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Well, you might recall too that Chris Bonasan used to
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: arguing with people who oppose his crazy agenda that he
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: got pants that the one debate he allowed at the
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: National Press Club before the last election with Ted O'Brien,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: the opposition spokesman then, So that was very revealing. By
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: the way the collective now and you were searching for
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: for duancers is Confederacy of Duncers, the famous novel by
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: John Kennedy tool which I'm sure you've read, but I
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: thought it was telling by the way that Labor has
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: dropped references in its draft national policy platform to that
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: promise it's bit was making for years to make eighty
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: two percent of our electricity come from Winnisola by twenty thirty.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: A bit hard to keep insisting when there's only five
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: years away. Now Bone today said, oh no, no, no,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: it's still the target.
• 22:58
  Speaker 11: But I don't know, Ryan.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: It sounds let the start of a crab walk away.
• 23:03
  Speaker 8: It's more than a crab walks. There must be hard
• 23:06
  Speaker 8: heads within the Labor Party. I can't believe they are all.
• 23:09
  Speaker 8: It is a confederacy of duncers, like you say, And
• 23:11
  Speaker 8: there must be some smart, intelligent people in the back
• 23:14
  Speaker 8: rooms there or keeping their mouths shut within the Labor
• 23:17
  Speaker 8: Party because of course they have to walk away from
• 23:19
  Speaker 8: these targets there the rest of the world has for starters.
• 23:23
  Speaker 8: Plus the fact they don't work, that's another kind of
• 23:25
  Speaker 8: minor point. And clearly they're going to drop the targets
• 23:29
  Speaker 8: as they they've got no choice. But if I were Bowen,
• 23:32
  Speaker 8: I'd be a little bit more nervous because if he's
• 23:34
  Speaker 8: clinging to those targets, I think they'll.
• 23:36
  Speaker 9: Be ditching Bowen before too long.
• 23:38
  Speaker 8: And so they should, because anyone who clings to that
• 23:40
  Speaker 8: target as we approach the next election is going to
• 23:43
  Speaker 8: find themselves completely out of step with where Labor is
• 23:46
  Speaker 8: going to try and position itself. It's going to try
• 23:49
  Speaker 8: and suddenly be.
• 23:51
  Speaker 9: Oh no, no, no.
• 23:52
  Speaker 8: We were never all in favor of that, know, we
• 23:54
  Speaker 8: were always about responsible energy policies. You watch, that'll be
• 23:58
  Speaker 8: the shift they've ditched a. If I'm Chris Bowen, I'd
• 24:02
  Speaker 8: be feeling very nervous at the moment as well as scared.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Well this should be But mate, do you really see
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: this government having the guts to admit it was wrong
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: and getting rid of him? I mean, they should for
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: their own survival, I guess. But boy, we may dream.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Rowan Dean, thank you for putting that pleasant dream in
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: our mind. Thank you so much for your time. After
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: the break, people are celebrating. Oil prices are falling, shares
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: are rising. But did Donald Trump stop this war too soon?
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Back to the ceasefar in the Iran War. It's funny.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Usually when there's a war in the Middle East involving America,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: the cynic say they just make war for the oil.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I think this might be the first time that they
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: make peace for the oil. Well, perhaps not peace, but
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: at least the cease fire for now. The question is, though,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: did the US give in to the pressure too soon
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: when Iran's regime feels so threatened that it's by its
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: own people that it reportedly arrested five hundred Ranians just
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: first couple of weeks, hundreds more the other day, accusing
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: them of spying for the US and Israel. A lot
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: of spies, a lot of people wanting to help defeat
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: their regime. And then you know, of course, is the
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: question of the missing and enriched uranium which Iranian negotiateds
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: told the US of February was enough to make eleven
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: nuclear warheads? Where is it? Is it going to stay
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: in Iran? Hope not joining me? Is Michael Schubridge, a
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: former senior defense official now founder and director of Strategic
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Analysis Australia. Michael, always great to see you. Did Donald
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Trump stop this war too soon?
• 25:51
  Speaker 10: Well, if you look at the result, if the cease
• 25:53
  Speaker 10: fire holds and turns into some peace agreement, he's left
• 25:58
  Speaker 10: weakening Ara, but leaving Iran still able to threaten and
• 26:03
  Speaker 10: damage its Gulf state neighbors and able to control the
• 26:07
  Speaker 10: Strait of Hormuz. So in that sense, there's a limited
• 26:12
  Speaker 10: set of achievements.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: What do you think he has achieved? You've said what
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: he hasn't achieved? What has he achieved well.
• 26:22
  Speaker 10: I think he has weakened Iran militarily. He's also weakened
• 26:29
  Speaker 10: the leadership of the regime, although we haven't really seen
• 26:33
  Speaker 10: how the new leadership that's been given authority during the
• 26:36
  Speaker 10: war will work together. And I'm not sure whether he's
• 26:41
  Speaker 10: driven the population further away from.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: The regime or closer to the regime.
• 26:47
  Speaker 10: If he'd expanded the war to bomb a lot of
• 26:50
  Speaker 10: civilian infrastructure, I think he might have unified more of
• 26:53
  Speaker 10: the country behind the regime.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: So he's avoided that for now. Now, I bet I'm
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: taking from what you said that he should have gone
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: on a bit longer. Is that what you you think?
• 27:08
  Speaker 10: I don't think so, because I think the next steps
• 27:12
  Speaker 10: that he was going to take, and that Iran was
• 27:14
  Speaker 10: going to take him response, would have caused extensive damage
• 27:19
  Speaker 10: to the broader region and global economy, far beyond the
• 27:23
  Speaker 10: blockage of the Strait of hor Moors. So I think
• 27:26
  Speaker 10: when you look at the wider consequences from widening the
• 27:30
  Speaker 10: war as both sides were about to do, this ceasefire
• 27:34
  Speaker 10: does make sense.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, So he gave it his best shot. He weakened.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: I ran not as much as you would have hoped for.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I though, suspect Michael, and tell me if I'm wrong
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: that Trump is betting that Iran isn't serious. You check
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: his latest post on this. You know that the United
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: States of America will be helping with the traffic build
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: up in the straight up for moors, youing to get
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: the oil flowing. And then he has this, We'll be
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: loading up with supplies of all kinds and just hanging
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: around in order to make sure that everything goes well.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: I feel confident that he really says, just like we
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: experiencing the US, this could be the golden age of
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: the Middle East. Now, Michael, his navy and his SOULD
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: is just hanging around loading up with supplies. How do
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: you read that?
• 28:27
  Speaker 10: Look, I think you're right that what that signals is
• 28:31
  Speaker 10: there's a lot of doubt about whether this two weeks
• 28:34
  Speaker 10: ceasefire gives time for negotiations and whether those negotiations lead anywhere.
• 28:40
  Speaker 10: You've got to remember that the American fifteen point plan
• 28:44
  Speaker 10: and the Iranian ten point plan both were completely unacceptable
• 28:49
  Speaker 10: to the different side, and none of that has changed
• 28:52
  Speaker 10: at this point. So yes, Israel and America will be
• 28:55
  Speaker 10: restocking their supplies and preparing for next steps if the
• 28:59
  Speaker 10: negotiations go nowhere.
• 29:01
  Speaker 9: And Iran will be doing the same.
• 29:03
  Speaker 10: You're right, they're all looking at each other like some
• 29:07
  Speaker 10: kind of standoff in a Western movie.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: I think that America's fifteen point plan and he runs
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: ten point plan, or read through some of the bizarre demands.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: You know, America should quit all the space in the
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Middle East, never going to agree. I don't think we'd
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: take anything that's written or said about by either side seriously.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: I think the story will be in what exactly they
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: privately negotiate or actually do. I think the proof will
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: be in the pudding. It starts with opening the straight Upulmors.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: We will see from there. But I think neither plan
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: bears any relationship to what will actually happen. How do
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: you see it all shaking.
• 29:46
  Speaker 10: Out absolutely the same way, Because let's look at why
• 29:53
  Speaker 10: this ceasefire happened. It's because the Pakistani Is the mediators
• 29:58
  Speaker 10: were smart enough to propose something that was neither side's plan,
• 30:03
  Speaker 10: so neither of the others wanted to reject it out
• 30:06
  Speaker 10: of hand, and it gave each of them, the Israelis
• 30:10
  Speaker 10: and Americans and Iranians, enough of a win for them
• 30:14
  Speaker 10: to accept the ceasefire. So really the Pakistanis have to
• 30:19
  Speaker 10: keep playing a key role, but the warring parties are
• 30:25
  Speaker 10: millions of miles apart at this point. In two weeks
• 30:27
  Speaker 10: is almost no time when they haven't even met directly yet,
• 30:32
  Speaker 10: and I.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Think absolutely correct. I wonder whether all this has been
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: a face safe for the regime to essentially surrender to
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: in some extent at least stop and we shall see
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: what we shall see. They're going to actually have to
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: play ball a bit. Bottom line, then, assuming and there's
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: a big assumption that the war does not resume. What
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: you've seen so far, was the war worth it?
• 31:02
  Speaker 10: No, because the regime is still in place, and they're
• 31:06
  Speaker 10: probably a harder line regime, more unified, and more unified
• 31:11
  Speaker 10: with a larger chunk of the population that sees the
• 31:14
  Speaker 10: war has been damaging to them. And we now know
• 31:18
  Speaker 10: Iran actually can control the straight offormers and the flow
• 31:22
  Speaker 10: of oil.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Well go a little further. Channa apparently has made some
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: sort of deal with Iran over the straight of for Musa.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: They're very interested in Iran having control of this and
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: no doubt letting Chinese ships through and charging American allied ones.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's all a bit strange and we
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: shall see what we shall see. Michael Schubridge, thank you
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: so much for your time. After the break, John Howard
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: praises Ben Roberts Smith, the war hero a charge with
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: shooting unarmed prisoners, and Pauline Hanson and Bob Ketta they
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: go even harder in defending him. My question to them
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: after this, I must be going crazy now. Former Prime
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Minister John Howard has also jumped to the defense of
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Ben Robert Smith, Victoria Cross winner, who yesterday was charged
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: with five war crimes involving the shooting of unarmed prisoners. Now,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: to be fair, to be accurate, Howard is two ways
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: to fair himself to say that Robert Smith is innocent
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: or shouldn't have been charged with a lot of the
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: suff we're hearing at the moment. But I still get
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: the drift when Howard writes that the arrest of Ben
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Robert Smith will tackle the heartstrings of millions of Australians.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: The most decorated Australian serviceman alive, he is the honored
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: holder of the treasured Victoria Cross. To some Australians, Robert
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Smith is a modern personification of the great Anzac tradition
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: having been charged Robert Smith is a tied to the
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: presumption of innocence and so on, and John Howard is
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: completely right. I mean, ben Robert Smith must be presumed innocent,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: and I hope he is innocent. But if those allegations
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: against them are true, Robert Smith will in fact have
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: betrayed our values, at least our values as I understand them,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: And shame on all the coalition MPs now busily finding
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: ways to suggests they're actually on Robert Smith's side. I
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: think they seem to be very scared of Pauline Hansen.
• 33:32
  Speaker 14: We train these men to go to war and we
• 33:36
  Speaker 14: don't know what's going to happen. We don't wear their shoes,
• 33:38
  Speaker 14: we don't know the circumstances that happens over there. But
• 33:42
  Speaker 14: when you know people come back in their face with
• 33:44
  Speaker 14: these war crimes, I think that it's going to send
• 33:48
  Speaker 14: a clear message to a lot of these defense personnel.
• 33:51
  Speaker 12: Why bother.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: This, No doubt that's becoming the popular sentiment, and in fact,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Federal Independent MP Bob Catter was even more eleamant.
• 34:02
  Speaker 15: I think it is one of the most pauly national
• 34:06
  Speaker 15: injustices that I have seen in my lifetime.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Now, if you're going to tell me that it was
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: disgraceful that Ben Roberts Smith was arrested so publicly in
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: front of his twin daughters on the way to a holiday,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: when you could have just rung him up and say
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: can you report down to the police station, will do
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: it privately there. I totally agree with you, totally agree
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: with you.
• 34:32
  Speaker 9: Should he be in.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Jail for a week or so while they're figuring out
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: whether to and how to apply for bail? No, I
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: agree with that too. But let's get back to the fundamentals.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: I have a question for Pauline Hanson and Bob Catter
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: and all the people saying the same. It's the one
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: I refer to, I think probably last night one imposing
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: a news called Papers Tomorrow. The bottom line, do you
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: think that australianed soldiers should be allowed to shoot unarmed prisoners?
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Are you fine if our soldiers shoot prisoners in the back?
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: One actually was disabled, had one leg, he was machine gunned.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Do you think that's fine? It's surrendered one legged man
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: machine gun to death. Should we be okay with our
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: soldiers murdering a handcuffed man who had already been injured
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: after being thrown off a cliff. And when you consider
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: all this, and before you jump to the yeah Australia, yeah,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: what would you say of Nazis who had allegedly done that,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: massacred prisoners, unarmed prisoners of Islamic state terrorists? And once
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Robert Smith actually sued stupidly journalists for defaming him, journalists
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: who'd accused him of such crimes, and lost. He lost
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: once that a judge in that case said, well, on
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: the balance of probabilities he had done such things, what
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: were authorities meant to do? Sweep that under the carpet.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Now people seem to think as patriotic to say that
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: if one of our soldiers shot those prisoners, then good,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: that's patriotism. Then I'm a traitor, although I actually think
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: those people who say these things are the real traders.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: They betray Australia and its values. Now, once again let
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: me stress I make no judgment on the innocence or
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: guilt of Ben Roberts Smith. These charges will and must
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: be decided by a judge and jury, and not by
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: a politician looking for votes. Joined me as the panel
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Michael Cosler for Labour Treasurer of New South Wales and
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Mirke Kelly, former Federal Labor Front bencher and co convener
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: of Labor Friends of Israel, now adjunct professor at the
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: National Security Institute of Canberra University. Mike, you are also
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: a veteran. Your reaction to the arrest of Ben Robert Smith.
• 37:11
  Speaker 6: Well, Andrew, this has been very distressing for every serving
• 37:16
  Speaker 6: member of the Defense Force and every ex serving member.
• 37:19
  Speaker 6: You really hate to see these kinds of allegations staining
• 37:23
  Speaker 6: our slou chat. You know, you pull that slat chat
• 37:26
  Speaker 6: on your inheriting generations of standards and a deep trust
• 37:31
  Speaker 6: with the Australian community, So whenever these kind of allegations
• 37:34
  Speaker 6: are raised, it's really distressing. So the only thing I'd
• 37:38
  Speaker 6: say though, is, and I will agree with many of
• 37:41
  Speaker 6: the comments that have been made about the fact that
• 37:44
  Speaker 6: effectively we should kind of shut up about these specific
• 37:47
  Speaker 6: allegations in relation to Ben Robert Smith and let the
• 37:49
  Speaker 6: system do its work. The one thing we're all really
• 37:52
  Speaker 6: keen to see here is that there's a fair trial.
• 37:55
  Speaker 6: But one thing I will say is, given the state
• 37:58
  Speaker 6: of the International Criminal Court the days, is that the
• 38:00
  Speaker 6: fact that there is a proceeding, I will at least
• 38:03
  Speaker 6: mean that there can be no pretense of any sort
• 38:06
  Speaker 6: of attempt to exercise jurisdiction by that court in the absence,
• 38:10
  Speaker 6: as they say, out of their statute, of a country
• 38:14
  Speaker 6: that's unwilling or unable to act. But let's see how
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: it runs its course, and it will be very difficult,
• 38:22
  Speaker 6: given the circumstances, the environment, the trouble with dealing with witnesses.
• 38:28
  Speaker 6: And it is interesting how long it's taken for these
• 38:31
  Speaker 6: matters to get to court. So when I see people
• 38:34
  Speaker 6: complaining about investigations into the world's central kitchen incident in
• 38:38
  Speaker 6: the Gaza War, it's taken thirteen years for the first
• 38:42
  Speaker 6: of these cases to get to court, So we should
• 38:44
  Speaker 6: bear that in mind.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: No, that's absolutely true too. Then it becomes the process
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: is the punishment. But Michael Costs amongst some politicians, and
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: I exclude John Howard here, but among some politicians seem
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: to be a petition to suggest that it's patriotic to
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: defend ben Robert Smith whatever whatever. And again I stress
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: I make no comment on his innocence or guilt. I
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: hope is innocent. That it's for a court to decide.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: But the question is patriotism rally to Ben Robert Smith
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: instead of saying, rally to our values.
• 39:23
  Speaker 15: Well, certainly our values is the key, as you rightly
• 39:26
  Speaker 15: point out. But I'm just going to make the point.
• 39:28
  Speaker 15: You know, I'm not in a position and I think
• 39:29
  Speaker 15: most Australians are not in a position that haven't served,
• 39:32
  Speaker 15: certainly in the military or served in combat even more importantly,
• 39:36
  Speaker 15: to make a lot of judgments about this, and I
• 39:38
  Speaker 15: think the appropriate place is the courts to deal with it.
• 39:42
  Speaker 15: But remember Andrew, I mean, the defamation was under the
• 39:46
  Speaker 15: the balance of probabilities, not reasonable doubt, which is the
• 39:50
  Speaker 15: criminal standard. So we've got to let the process go forward,
• 39:54
  Speaker 15: and also just make the point I think this is
• 39:55
  Speaker 15: why people are uneasy. I mean, the allegations are about
• 39:58
  Speaker 15: incidents that don't relate to the Victoria Cross Award, as
• 40:03
  Speaker 15: my understanding is, and you know, he showed immense bravery
• 40:07
  Speaker 15: in that action and that's why he was awarded. That
• 40:10
  Speaker 15: these are separate incidents, and you know, he got to
• 40:13
  Speaker 15: wonder why they people didn't come forward at the time
• 40:16
  Speaker 15: there was an assessment. But I think we just got
• 40:17
  Speaker 15: to let the process go forward. But I just want
• 40:19
  Speaker 15: to reinforce what you said, Andrew. It was an absolute
• 40:22
  Speaker 15: disgrace the way he was arrested, a man that has
• 40:27
  Speaker 15: you know, served in the services with distinction in relation
• 40:31
  Speaker 15: to that Victoria Cross should not have been treated like that.
• 40:34
  Speaker 15: He wasn't a flight risk. He should have been phoned up,
• 40:36
  Speaker 15: he should have been asked to attend, you know, the
• 40:39
  Speaker 15: police station for the charging with his lawyer. And I
• 40:42
  Speaker 15: make a broader point, this is happening all the time.
• 40:45
  Speaker 15: You know, the prosecutors are leaking to the and I
• 40:48
  Speaker 15: assumance the prosecutors to the press. He's watch your moments.
• 40:52
  Speaker 15: You know what happened with pell and the list is endless,
• 40:54
  Speaker 15: and it's about time it stopped because it corrupts the process.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: I thought it was disgraceful that everything you just said,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: but the fact that the channel known was tipped off
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: to film his humiliation. Don't forget he could be innocent
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: and there was no need for that. And I think
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: whoever did the leaking of that information should be sacked anyway, Mike,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Mike Kelly, the Irun war now this ceased far. I
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: don't know that it will hold to be honest, but
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: let's assume that it does for now, was the war
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: worth it?
• 41:30
  Speaker 6: Well, you can't often really assess these things until the conclusion,
• 41:34
  Speaker 6: and that may take many years because we don't know
• 41:37
  Speaker 6: if this is the end of it and correct. In fact,
• 41:40
  Speaker 6: what makes me very angry is that people talking about
• 41:42
  Speaker 6: this is some sort of separate thing and so making
• 41:47
  Speaker 6: out that it's playing this lawfare game, that it's an
• 41:49
  Speaker 6: illegal act in terms of use of force. This war
• 41:52
  Speaker 6: has been going on since at least nineteen eighty two.
• 41:55
  Speaker 6: Went I ran through its proxies and often directly was
• 41:59
  Speaker 6: it attacking another sovereign state and on a daily basis,
• 42:04
  Speaker 6: asserting that their intent was the complete destruction of that
• 42:07
  Speaker 6: state and the annihilation of all of its people. In
• 42:11
  Speaker 6: their mind and their kind of ideology, which is every
• 42:13
  Speaker 6: bit as heinous as the Nazis. It's basically the first
• 42:16
  Speaker 6: step to the revelation of the twelfth Imam, the Machti,
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: which also is a precursor to the global Islamization of
• 42:25
  Speaker 6: the world. So we have to understand the nature of
• 42:28
  Speaker 6: that threat. Israel's been fighting this war in self defense
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: for many decades, and it's like the one hundred Years War,
• 42:34
  Speaker 6: the thirty Years War, the Seven Years War, and so
• 42:37
  Speaker 6: there was a pause and it's continuing. As to the
• 42:40
  Speaker 6: effectiveness of it, certainly it has been effective. It has
• 42:44
  Speaker 6: been effective in setting back the attempts to rehabilitate their
• 42:47
  Speaker 6: nuclear capability, which they were feverishly doing ever since the
• 42:51
  Speaker 6: last pause in the operations. The ballistic missile threat that
• 42:56
  Speaker 6: they pose, and now it's been revealed again they've lied
• 42:59
  Speaker 6: to us about their efforts to develop longer range ballistic missiles.
• 43:04
  Speaker 6: We've had the revelation of the Horem Shaht four reaching
• 43:07
  Speaker 6: ranges of four thousand kilometers. They're certainly on the path
• 43:10
  Speaker 6: to enter continental ballistic missiles. So destroying that industry, setting
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: that back, destroying stockpiles very important, particularly for the long
• 43:18
  Speaker 6: suffering people of Israel, and that's part of Iran's short
• 43:22
  Speaker 6: term goals. If you can't buy them up with nuclear weapons,
• 43:24
  Speaker 6: make the place unlivable and uneconomic. So you know, what
• 43:29
  Speaker 6: we've had revealed about the straits of Hormales. We've known
• 43:32
  Speaker 6: for forty years, you know, I remember war games on
• 43:35
  Speaker 6: this a couple of decades ago, and they've spent every
• 43:39
  Speaker 6: effort to position themselves to hold that over the international community.
• 43:43
  Speaker 6: As a threat, and now they've triggered that threat. What
• 43:46
  Speaker 6: it wakes us up to is the need to find
• 43:48
  Speaker 6: out ways to circumvent that and to deny them that
• 43:52
  Speaker 6: ability to wield that weapon.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Well, well, there's two things. Militarily, we have to learn
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: some lessons and I think for one, we really have
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: to get stuck into the new drone where you know,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: wage way of waging war that has as Ukraine has
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: shown so brilliantly in resisting Russia for four years. But Michael,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: Michael costs that the lessons also go to something you
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: might touch it on there, how we make ourselves more
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: economically resilient. I mean, we've got all prices falling today,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: but they're still high. They're going to stay high for months.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Some of the Gulf state oil facilities destroy bo Ran
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: will take ages to repair. What do you think we
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: need to do?
• 44:41
  Speaker 15: Well, just on the first point, but you know, this
• 44:44
  Speaker 15: war we won't know if if it was worth it,
• 44:46
  Speaker 15: but it certainly was necessary because of all the reasons
• 44:50
  Speaker 15: Mike outlined. But one of those reasons, of course, is
• 44:53
  Speaker 15: the one you're pointing to, and that's energy sufficiency and
• 44:57
  Speaker 15: energy independence. And I think that's why this war was
• 45:01
  Speaker 15: necessary for Australia. It has proved how vulnerable we are
• 45:05
  Speaker 15: to energy shocks, and it's also proved how stupid our
• 45:08
  Speaker 15: policies have been over decades under both Labor and Liberal government.
• 45:12
  Speaker 15: So let's not forget Morrison's role in all of this.
• 45:15
  Speaker 15: The bottom line is we really do have to have
• 45:18
  Speaker 15: a new energy policy. I doubt we're going to get
• 45:20
  Speaker 15: it under the current administration. We need an energy buffer
• 45:24
  Speaker 15: as a minimum. We've got to go to the ninety
• 45:26
  Speaker 15: days as soon as this is over, and the government's
• 45:28
  Speaker 15: got to ensure it can report to the people in
• 45:31
  Speaker 15: a short time that we've got a ninety day buffer
• 45:33
  Speaker 15: as was required. Secondly, we've got to start the drill,
• 45:36
  Speaker 15: baby drill process. You know, we've got to unlock our
• 45:39
  Speaker 15: energy resources and that's got to be a priority. And finally,
• 45:43
  Speaker 15: this silly net zero has to be revised. And you know,
• 45:47
  Speaker 15: I saw that thing from Chris Bowen. You know, there's
• 45:50
  Speaker 15: no chance with that bloke in there doing it. You
• 45:52
  Speaker 15: remember Hemi and Alberizi talking about EV's as if that
• 45:56
  Speaker 15: was the solution to our energy problems, immediate energy problem.
• 46:00
  Speaker 15: So really that's really the lessons from this you know,
• 46:03
  Speaker 15: it's not a short term lesson, it's a medium term
• 46:05
  Speaker 15: lesson and we've got to get onto it.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Make Kelly, what do you think what lessons should the government,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: both sides of politics be learning.
• 46:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah, on that fuel point, this is something that Jimal
• 46:16
  Speaker 6: and I used to rant about many times and Parliament
• 46:19
  Speaker 6: Committee on Intelligence and Security and look, you know the
• 46:24
  Speaker 6: lealing aside all the issues around climate change debates and
• 46:28
  Speaker 6: energy transition. It is in our national interest to get
• 46:32
  Speaker 6: off oil as quickly as we can. And when I
• 46:34
  Speaker 6: was a Minister for Defense Material I was really excited
• 46:37
  Speaker 6: by a project based on some technology that I first
• 46:40
  Speaker 6: actually encountered in Israel and there was a company here
• 46:43
  Speaker 6: called Algae Tech who down in the coast and Nara.
• 46:46
  Speaker 6: We're doing this pilot project on transitioning algae resource into
• 46:52
  Speaker 6: a straight bio diesel drop in fuel that is no
• 46:56
  Speaker 6: need for conversion or blending, to put it straight into
• 47:00
  Speaker 6: an existing diesel vehicle. Now, one of the things they
• 47:04
  Speaker 6: were about to do was to enter into a pilot
• 47:07
  Speaker 6: project that had an agreement with the Bayswater Power Station
• 47:10
  Speaker 6: in New South Wales because the algae is carbon hungry
• 47:13
  Speaker 6: and it could have been set up to suck in
• 47:15
  Speaker 6: all of the carbon emissions from that coulfide power station
• 47:18
  Speaker 6: and generate all this fantastic bio diesel fuel. And so
• 47:22
  Speaker 6: you killed two birds with one stone and the other
• 47:26
  Speaker 6: part of this and one of the lessons from Israel's
• 47:28
  Speaker 6: experience is the need to have a distributed energy situation.
• 47:32
  Speaker 6: So with that kind of bio diesel constructs, you could
• 47:35
  Speaker 6: have this stuff all around the country and including set
• 47:39
  Speaker 6: up facilities in remote and regional areas to generate their
• 47:42
  Speaker 6: own bio diesel capacity. And I was really sad that
• 47:45
  Speaker 6: that fell apart because when they went away from the
• 47:50
  Speaker 6: Kleanengy Future package, that was one element that could have
• 47:52
  Speaker 6: been looked at to preserve because the project then died.
• 47:56
  Speaker 6: So I would say, Sweden's doing this because of their
• 47:59
  Speaker 6: dependent it's on Russian oil. They set up a commission
• 48:02
  Speaker 6: to get off oil in two thousand and five and
• 48:04
  Speaker 6: a well on track to achieve that. So I would say, firstly, yes,
• 48:08
  Speaker 6: let's get off oil. It is that petro dollars that
• 48:11
  Speaker 6: come into funding terrorism, radicalization, et cetera. I tracked this
• 48:16
  Speaker 6: when I had the Middle East Desk in defense, something
• 48:19
  Speaker 6: like eight billion dollars over seven years now, it's poisoning
• 48:22
  Speaker 6: our universities. I just want to get off that stuff
• 48:25
  Speaker 6: as quickly as possible.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: Andrew, Michael Kossa, Mike Kelly, thank you very much to
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: you both well. I think really the message for us
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: is we are far more on our own than we
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: used to think, and we have got to get more
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: resilient defense, energy, and industry. Up Next to Sharry, hosted
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: by Karen the Marcus good Note