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SMNTY Classics: Sad Murder Dad · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Never told you a protective of iHeartRadio. And we have
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: a slightly longer bit of an update for this classic
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: because this weekend is Father's Day, so we're bringing back
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: a sort of more recent classic on the sad Murdered
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Dad trope, which is one of my favorites. It does
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: discuss grief and loss, though, so if that's not your thing,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: I totally understand.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I hear you, I see you.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: But as I was lying awake a couple of nights ago,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: as I'm bound to do, I started to think about
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: the gendering of Father's Day and Mother's Day. I started
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: to think about how Mother's Day is so much like
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: flowers and let's go get brunch because you the idea
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: being you normally cook, and so this is your day
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: off that you get breakfast in bed, and this is
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: your day off, which, by the way, Mother's Day I
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: haven't researched these numbers recently, but was before the pandemic
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: the biggest day for brunch, and then Bother's Day is
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: like this is the day the one day that you
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: do cook when you grill out and you get you know,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of compliments for that. And also I want
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: to bring this one back because now a lot of
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: you have seen or heard about the Last of Us,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: and this is very much like kind of a single
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: dad doing his best midlife crisis. The same with the Mandalorian.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: That's what all these articles coming out were like. This
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: is just kind of a single.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Dad just trying to do.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: But I did briefly research it, and I found this
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: article from the Atlantic. And I want to be very
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: clear here before I read some of these quotes. This
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: is about in specific, okay, like greeting cards we buy. Okay,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: So here's a quote in card world, mothers do everything
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: and fathers are an afterthought. The messaging isn't subtle either.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Some cards are very clear about which parent is considered
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: more important. Happy Mother's Day to a woman who does
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: it all, read one card. You work, you cook, you clean,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: you nurture, you crazy. But the woman on the inside
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: of the card has a happy enough expression, even though
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: each of her limbs is engaged in a different task.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: A month later, I found a Father's Day card that
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: said Father's Day is in June. Because about a month
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: after Mother's Day, somebody went.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Hey, wait a minute.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: In reality, it took much longer. President Woodrow Wilson declared
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Mother's Day at national US holiday in nineteen fourteen. It
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: wasn't until nineteen seventy two that President Nixon made Father's
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Day official. And then the article, which I highly recommend,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: goes into things like the number one dad, as if
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: the dad needs a reward, but it never specifies why.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Here's a quote.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: It's never quite clear to me what the dad is
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: supposed to be relaxing from. And it's kind of the
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: difference of the mother is hiding away from her family
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: on this day and finally taking a break, whereas this
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: is the day the father does spend with his family. Again,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: this is in card world. This is like stereotypes and generalizations,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: but it's more, this is what we're saying in these
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: cards we're giving out. I'm not saying it's true. They
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: even said, like studies have shown fathers have been doing
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: more and more work. It still is more and more
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: work in the domestic sphere, but it is still weighted
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: towards women. But also women you know, have entered the
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: workspace in a lot a lot more cases. So they're
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: very like old traditional stereotypes too. It also implies like
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: when moms do get their day off, it doesn't work out,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: like she's still has to take care of the family.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: But then I found a whole other thing which I
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: feel terrible about but I never thought about before. But
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: there is a non binary Parent's Day April eighteenth, and
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: there are petitions for mother and Father's Day to become
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: just parents' Day, to you know, lessen these gendered stereotypes
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: and make it more inclusive.
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: That would be easier for the visits as such, right
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: and gifts.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, no, no, no, no, it's just it
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: is interesting how much of this is very dependent on
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: very gendered but also very like traditional gender stereotypes, and
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: they're not helpful for anybody.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: They're pretty harmful.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: And as all these articles I read, and I'll say
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: it too, like I've got nothing against Mother's Day Father's Day.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: I just think it's like worth asking these questions.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: Right again, And then we talk about the fact that
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: the majority of those holidays are Hallmark led anyway, sell
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: these cards.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: You know, they're wanting you to split it up, so
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: we have to buy double the cards, more presents, all
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: that stuff. Yeah, for sure, But yeah, I thought. I
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: just thought i'd bring this back, And if anyone has
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: any thoughts about this, please write in and let us know.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: But in the.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Meantime, enjoy my very on brand discussion of my favorite
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: one of my favorite tropes, the sad Murdered Dad, Murder Dad.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: I'm welcome to Steph I never told you production of iHeartRadio,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: and it is time for another hour. Despite the name,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: I think this one's going to be mostly a happy hour.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Or at least like a not own happy hour, even
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: though we are going to talk about grief but not
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: much on much the okay hour then.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, okay, I think it's gonna be like the kind
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: of enjoyable ranting hour. But okay, I don't know if
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: you like this kind of thing. I think you'll be
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: into it. But if you don't, me maybe. So it's
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: always with these segments. Drink responsibly. Uh, And what are
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: you sipping on, Samantha.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: You know how we talked about trying to switch up
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: our drinks again, but we still have our faves. Yeah,
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: I'm drinking a fave. So I'm drinking my vino verde
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: from Trader Joe's not a sponsor unless they want to
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: give me a case of this wine because I really
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: like it. But yeah, I'm just sticking with that today.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: It sounds nice, sounds refreshing.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: It is light and refreshing and happily.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: It is Okay. Well, I kind of had a similar
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: issue again. So last time I made like a gin
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: and tonic with beer. This time I made like a
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: gin wine slushy tonic thing. Interesting, yeah, because my friend,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I believe I've told this story before, but I have
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: a friend who Katie, who is on our episode about
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: women with red hair. She loves snacks and I don't
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: like snacks, so and she loves asserts and I don't
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: really eat dessert so she'll every time she comes over it.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: She has started to bring desserts and snacks and things
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: that she'll like and she'll leave them here. But that's
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: part of the problem is I don't like having that
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: stuff around. But she did leave this whole case of
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: these wine slushies. Oh yeah, and she's become increasingly frustrated
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: with me that I won't drink somem but I also
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: won't throw them away.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: But I'm like you, maybe you'll want them.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: One day and she flied out told me, I'm never
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: gonna drink those because it's become a point of pride now,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: and so I'm trying to be stubborn and drink them slowly.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Take that, Katie, I love it. Yes, So today we
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: are going to talk about it.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: I've mentioned before the sad murdered Dad trope, and I
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: know this sounds kind of dark, but the timing of
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: this is say anniversary of my dad's death. And you know,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: I was thinking, I feel like, in the years since
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: he's died, I still have occasions where I just get
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: so so sad. And one of the things I do
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: on the anniversary of his death is I watched Star Wars,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: which of course we love Star Wars together. We watched
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: O Wars together. I can't hear opi Wan without hearing him.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: And the sad murdered Dad trope is I first heard
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: of it about Darth Vader, so he's the original sad
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: murder Dad in my book. And I did get Samantha knows.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: I did find this letter he wrote me. I have
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: not opened it yet. I still haven't opened it. I
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: can't do it. I'm going to, but it just feels
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: like it's gonna be such a big before and after, Like,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: once I opened the letter, I think it's gonna change something.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: It could possibly be.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Like legal documents and I really need them. I was
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: cleaning out my apartment and I just came across this
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: letter that when he gave it to me, he left
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: it on my bed, and when I found it.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: I was so angry.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: I just just like, I've never opened this, and now
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of sad because who knows what's in there.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: Maybe it would have.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Been important and changed our relationship, but too bad, I
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: will never know.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: I will open it. I will, but not today, not
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: for me, not for a minute.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Even though I said I was gonna do it on
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Father's Day and I never did, and I said I
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: was gonna do it the next second, and I never did.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: I've like picked it up and held it and almost
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: opened it several times and then right like no I can't,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: I can't.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: You take your time.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, thank you.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: It just it does feel like it's going to be
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: a big I don't know. It feels like it's gonna
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: be life changing, or at least potentially like temporarily life changing.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: Right, It's definitely, no matter what, it's your dad's words
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: to you who you have meant seeing because he passed
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: away a few years ago and now you have those
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: bags again and you just come to the point of
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: being like kind of okay with his because he didn't
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: leave you in a good place.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: That's you know, that's obviously so you like could be
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: reopening wounds that you don't want to think about. So
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: absolutely that makes perfect sense.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it does. I just I have this like
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: I have to read it. I have to read it
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: because somebody said, like you don't have to really, like
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: maybe you just don't read it, Like, no, I have
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: to read it. So I'm just waiting for the time
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: when I just worried it's going to really like the
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: next two weeks are going to be ruined or something
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: like I'm not going to.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Be able to work or I don't know.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: And again it could just be like legal documents.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Who knows. And I almost got you to read it.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: I was like, you open it and you tell me
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: what it is, and then I can prepare I can
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: do that for you.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: We'll see, We'll see it's sitting there taunting me. It's
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: and I did go home. I went home to see
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: my mom last weekend, and every time I go home,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: that's pretty like the memories are just everywhere. And then
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I've never been to visit his grave, and every time
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: I kind of drive by it, that's always that always
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: gets me. That's a rough time. But again, maybe one
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: day I'll visit it. But all of this to say,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: I am someone, as you know, who loves anniversaries and
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: traditions and marking occasions, no matter how sad they might be.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: So I am going to talk about the sad murdered
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: dad trope. And I like to think my dad, who
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: did love Star Wars and Darth Vader and movies in general,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: would at least get a kick out of it. So
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: this has also been on my mind because I very
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: excitedly showed you. I sent you pictures I finally got
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: my I donated to AO three, which is the big
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: nonprofit fan fiction website, and I finally got They sent
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: this deck of cards as a thank you to everyone
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: who donated, and each of the cards has a trope
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: a fan fiction tag on it and they're so cool
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: and I love them and I'm going to show them
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: to you next time. We hang out like everyone, but
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: sad Murdered Dad was not in there.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: Oh no, well, yeah I did get these pictures. I
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: was very confused. I'm like, what am I looking at?
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: Explain because I didn't know what was happening. And then
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: of course you're like, this is what I was say.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, very exciting. I'm really excited to see them all.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: You sent a very confused text, that's for sure, because
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: I sent like ten pictures because that's the limit on
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: my phone.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I can only I would have sent you like twenty.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: We kept popping up, so I was like, what, what's happening?
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: I think that was what's happening right now with my cogment.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yes.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: They also didn't have a cinnamon roll trope, but they
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: had a lot of my favorite They had a lot
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: of my favorite tags. If you don't know what the
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: sad Murdered Dad trope is, it's essentially exactly what it
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: sounds like. It is a father figure who uses violence
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: and murder in the name of their child and is
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: very sad about it. Not about the murder, but it's
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: just sad, just a sad character. And Darth Vader is
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: the first time I ever saw that tag and I
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: he is frequently displayed that way. He's frequently and I
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: mean this is I would say accurate as his character.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: He's very possessive of Luke because he doesn't know Lea
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: as his child when we see him, very possessive, so
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: like he can hurt Luke, but no one else can
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: hurt Luke, and he will like kill anyone, including the
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Emperor for Luke. There's a lot of violence in his
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: name that Luke doesn't want. But he's also very sad
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: as a character. A lot of the introspections I've read
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: very sad because he missed out on Luke's life. Luke
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: doesn't want to be with him after he makes the
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: announcement the revelation I am your father, And it is
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: a really interesting trope and it's one I feel like
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: now that I have that name for it, which is
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: kind of a funny like fan fiction name for it.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: I see it all the time, and we have talked
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: about it before.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: We talked about it in our survival video game series,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: like anytime we bring up the Last of Us. Because Joel,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: I would say it is a sad murder Dad and
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: that weekend where we did Star Wars and Last of
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Us for my birthday. Even joked it could be like
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: sad murdered Dad.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: We end I'll shout up on the perfect name, but
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: yes we did not. I think it was just a
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: sad soup day, sad.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: And it was great.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: The soup was not sad though.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: People.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: No, no, but I did cry. I remember you brought
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: out that piece of pie and I was crying and
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: I was like, no, this is perfect, Dubi, I did.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: I did so thank you, so as you know.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I also love the semon role tag that's my favorite,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: which is just somebody who's like a sweetheart, like the
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: most genuine, sincere sweetheart, and Luke is often portrayed that way,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: not always but often. So if you get like the
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: sad murdered dad and then the cinnamon role, I think
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: like the dichotomy there is very interesting because you've got
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: somebody like Luke who is like so sweet and then
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Vader who's like literally kind of this whole king monster
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: who's killing everybody, and yet they're related. But I think
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: like these are heightened fan fiction terms. But again, I
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: think this is the same thing that we see all
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: the time, where there is a usually cut off, emotionally
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: constipated man who lost something someone usually his wife and
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: or or a child, goes down a dark spiral, cuts
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: off from everybody, becomes violent, becomes cold, meets a child
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: or somebody, usually a young girl. But in this case no,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: but like a Joel with Ellie, where you meet a
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: young girl who's like the ultimate innocence. I wouldn't call
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: her quite a some mineral, but it's like that same
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: idea of that foil against each other.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: And then the.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Sad murder dead in question slowly like learns to feel again.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: But in doing so does it in a very violent
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: and very like toxic masculinity way of killing everybody. Yeah.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: And so I do think.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: When I think about the last of us, and I
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: know I've talked about this ad nauseum, and I probably
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: will forever. I feel like people, I guess, I just
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I have this question that I feel like I know
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: the answer to. But why are we so willing to
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: excuse violence and bad behavior for fathers in particular? Well,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: while mothers are, women who engage in this behavior are
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: evil or bad or failures. And we've got a pretty
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: good episode I think coming up where we're going to
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: talk about some of this stuff soon about why we
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: treat mothers that way, but fathers were like, oh, but
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: he's so sweet, he's trying, he cares so much, he'll
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: kill all of those people. Isn't that good? Like is it?
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: It's like showing you care through violence. That's not the
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: person the cinnamon roll in question doesn't want, in fact,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: really really doesn't want, but you're doing it in their name,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: and it's supposed to be proof of how much you care,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: because I think we just value so much masculine behavior more.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: It's also more dramatic, like I'll give you that, but
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: it's not It is certainly more I would say, a
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: masculine realm.
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Then this is a bigger issue. Perhaps then we're going
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: to get into two in depth in this one. But
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: it is something I think about too where I can't
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: help but sort of psychoanalyze writers sometimes, and it seems
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: like we have a whole generation of writers who I
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: could be wrong. I don't know their lives, but maybe
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: had a father who wasn't there that much, or like
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: they felt like as a kid they had to do
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: something to keep them around, or were just close off.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Again.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: I could be totally wrong, but it's just like we
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: see these stories a lot. Maybe they feel that way
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: as fathers themselves, they feel like they're feeling they're so
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: their way at their job all the time writing these things.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: It's just sort of like I see a lot of
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: male writers continually writing these things, and I'm just kind
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: of curious why.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Why indeed, why indeed?
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: I read a funny article about it in Star Wars
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: and they were like why, because you know, like the
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Mandalorian and Grogu is the same essentially, Like, well, why
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: we keep seeing this dynamic of sort of a like
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: closed off, cold, violent man who's honestly.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Not very good at the job.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: No, I.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Love him. I love Darth Vader, but he's also not
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: very good at his job. Like he's had a lot
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: of screw ups in his day.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Sure has sures.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: And I was telling my friend the other day that's
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: one of my favorite parts of the end of Return
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: of the Jedi is because he kind of failed as
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: a Sith and Luke kind of failed as a Jedi,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: and they chose each other in the end, but you know,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: like a failure it makes a character interesting, But I
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: just say, like this writer also made the point of
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: it's it's intriguing that we're seeing this play out.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Many times in this universe. It is indeed intriguing.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: You were right, You are correct, You are correct as
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: much as I have been complaining about it. And we're
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: big proponents of being cognizant of your media and the
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: messages you send. I do love the trope on fan
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: fiction usually, and fan fiction it's less violent usually not always,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: but usually it's more like.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: They're very very dark. Fader is very very sad.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Oh oh, man, my son don't like me.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know because I haven't read the fan fiction.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: But he's sad because also he's mainly robot and it's painful,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: and it's painful.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, he's got a lot of reasons to be sad.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna take that away from him at all.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Oh part of that is his own doing. Yes, also true.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Again, I just feel like we're so much more ready
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: to forgive these male characters than we are women characters.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: And just like Refa in recent obi wan, I remember
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: I paused.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: I was like, I already have it ready, but I
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: want to wait.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Because I think there's gonna be a reaction to the
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: final episode, and I want to see if I if
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: I'm right, And what I thought was gonna happen was
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: people were going to how to say this at that point,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: they were going to look for a reason for her
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: to die no matter what, like they wanted her to
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: die no matter what, Whereas with I feel like with
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Darth Vader, people would be more like trying to find
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: a way where he could live. And we've talked about
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: that too, where like a lot of these sad murdered
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: dads never actually have to do the work of the
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: redemption part. They just run, They just die, yeah, and
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: then they don't have to deal with all the fallout. Like,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: I think that's still a powerful story of you know,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, forgiveness whatever. I'm I'm making it sound really trite,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: but I do think it's really it's a powerful story.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: But ultimately you died before you had to deal with
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: all the.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: Reality of it.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: So yeah, those are just my thoughts on this trope
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: that I frequently run across in fanash and I do
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: think it's very interesting because I think it's everywhere. I
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: think it's I think it's very popular in pop culture.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: I think it's kind of in The Boys, which I
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: just watched, like, h there it is, there, it is.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: It shows up in quite a few different ways.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: That really does.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: The Boys is a whole different commentary because the first
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: couple of seasons were about mommy issues and now it's
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: gone on to daddy issues.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: So it's true a wide spectrum. Well, perhaps we'll return
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: and we definitely do have something coming up that we're
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: excited to talk about with the depiction of mothers in media,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: in recent media.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Pas recent media.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So we're excited about that and uh,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: always excited to talk about these topics. So thank you
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: and cheers, cheers to sad murdered dead murder, cheers to
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: use sad murdered neds if oh gosh, I guess no,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: please stop, and tears to you for listening. As always,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: if there's a topic you would like for us to cover,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: please let us know. You can email that Stuff Media
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: mom Stuff at iheartmeio dot com. You can find us
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast or on Instagram at
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as always to our
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: super producer Christina, Thank you, and thanks to you for
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: listening stuff I've never told you. The protection iHeartRadio. For
• 23:52
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