Latest / Single Tree Nation Show / Daniel Vaughn | Inside Texas BBQ, Texas Monthly & the Evolution of Barbecue Culture |

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Daniel Vaughn | Inside Texas BBQ, Texas Monthly & the Evolution of Barbecue Culture | · Single Tree Nation Show

0:02
Welcome back to Singletree Nation, guys.
0:04
I'm your man, Charlie Eblen.
0:06
And as always,
0:07
we have our illustrious co-host, Mr.
0:09
Derry Wells.
0:10
What is that?
0:11
Glad you dropped the smiley.
0:14
You didn't like the smiley.
0:15
It doesn't fit right.
0:18
The smiling, illustrious co-host.
0:21
Anyway.
0:21
Look, today's show...
0:23
Today's show is going to be a good
0:24
one, but real quick,
0:26
we have to highlight our primary
0:27
technology sponsor, Toast.
0:29
They partner with us here in the
0:31
restaurant and on the show to provide our
0:33
undeniable hospitality that we shoot for
0:35
every single day.
0:36
Thank you, Toast,
0:37
for all that you do for us and
0:38
the restaurants and the hundred and fifty
0:39
thousand customers that you have.
0:42
So we all appreciate their services.
0:45
Today is going to be a pretty cool
0:47
show.
0:47
I'm excited.
0:49
How much research did you do about our
0:51
guest today, Derry?
0:52
I did enough to know that he eats
0:53
well.
0:54
He does eat well.
0:56
He does eat very well.
0:57
At least every four years,
0:58
he eats really well.
1:00
Yeah.
1:02
No,
1:02
but I did just enough to where I
1:04
can have a conversation.
1:05
I do have...
1:07
I got what we'll get into the top
1:09
and stuff, but like, yeah,
1:10
I've got a couple of questions.
1:11
You got some questions.
1:12
Yeah.
1:13
So yeah.
1:13
Um, the curiosity killed the cat.
1:18
I've got a webpage pulled up.
1:20
That's all I'm going to say.
1:21
It doesn't have anything to do with the
1:23
leather.
1:23
No, no, no leather couches.
1:25
Just a webpage.
1:26
All right.
1:26
So he's going to leave us.
1:29
He's like, Mr. Daniel Vaughn,
1:33
welcome to the show.
1:34
We appreciate you coming to join us for
1:35
a little while today, my friend.
1:37
yeah glad to be on uh happy to
1:39
be answering whatever questions you got
1:43
i'm sure we will have a few um
1:45
but before we go down that road um
1:48
you know most people know you from texas
1:51
monthly um and the top fifty uh but
1:56
i'm sure if we go back um what
2:00
did you do before that
2:03
Yeah, I was, well, my wife and I,
2:05
we met at Tulane where I was an
2:07
architecture student and we moved to
2:10
Dallas in two thousand, two thousand one.
2:14
And I was an architect.
2:16
I worked as an architect for twelve years.
2:19
I've now been doing this barbecue editor
2:22
thing for thirteen years now.
2:24
So I've officially gone beyond.
2:27
This is the longest tenure I've had at
2:29
any one position.
2:31
Um, and yeah, I just,
2:33
I fell in love with barbecue really as
2:34
soon as I moved to Texas and, uh,
2:37
started searching around any of the places
2:39
I could find and, uh, you know,
2:41
eventually found the Texas monthly top
2:43
fifty list.
2:45
Uh, it came out in two thousand three,
2:47
um,
2:47
a couple of years after I'd moved here
2:49
and,
2:49
and used it to really search through
2:52
central Texas and go to all their top
2:54
spots and, uh,
2:56
you know eventually have my barbecue
2:58
epiphany at louis miller barbecue in
3:00
taylor texas uh really the first place
3:03
that i had uh what i would consider
3:05
like really spectacular barbecue like that
3:07
that barbecue bite that i'm sure you both
3:09
have had that uh you realize like this
3:12
is a different kind of food than maybe
3:13
what i thought barbecue was so yeah it's
3:16
just gone on from there like i said
3:19
i started this job with texas monthly and
3:23
i've been going strong ever since
3:26
Now,
3:26
who who did the the top fifty before
3:30
you?
3:31
Well,
3:32
so Pat Sharp had been our food editor
3:35
for I mean,
3:37
she had had fifty years in the game
3:38
when she retired last year.
3:42
Or she really retired at the end of
3:44
twenty twenty four.
3:46
And so she had been really the one
3:48
at the helm.
3:49
She worked with the whole team in the
3:51
nineteen ninety seven issue and had really
3:54
been the one at the helm for all
3:56
of the others.
3:58
I really loved working with her.
3:59
We worked together in twenty thirteen on
4:01
that first list.
4:03
She really took the lead on that one.
4:05
You know,
4:06
we really shared that in in twenty
4:08
seventeen and in twenty twenty one.
4:11
But, you know,
4:11
she wasn't there as that resource that I'd
4:16
had in twenty twenty five was the one
4:18
that came out last year.
4:19
So, yeah, yeah,
4:21
I really missed having her around for all
4:23
those barbecue road trips.
4:25
Now,
4:27
how does one go from being an architect
4:31
to just traveling around,
4:34
trying some different barbecue joints and
4:35
going, oh man, that was pretty good.
4:37
But yeah, and then walking in and going,
4:39
man, that was great.
4:42
I need to start writing about this.
4:44
Yeah, well, you know,
4:45
it took a lot of eating.
4:47
I took a lot of visits.
4:50
You know,
4:51
it took enough to where you where I
4:54
realized that I was really curious about
4:55
finding more and expanding that search and
5:00
you know I just this is a little
5:01
random but like last night I just watched
5:03
this documentary about these birders these
5:07
guys who they had no idea what birding
5:10
was and they're just like you know screw
5:12
it let's go figure out birding and like
5:14
they spent an entire year out like looking
5:17
for birds and they really got into it
5:19
like really got into the community really
5:21
started to understand it and
5:22
through that understanding like really you
5:25
know developed this deep love for birding
5:28
uh that they hadn't had at all when
5:29
they began and you know i really just
5:31
think it was because of that that
5:33
repetition that and the education that
5:36
comes along with it and you know you
5:38
go out there and you start learning not
5:41
only about the craft and about the process
5:43
but also learning about your individual
5:46
taste and uh you know what uh different
5:49
communities around the state value about
5:51
barbecue
5:53
do you notice that when with your travels
5:59
kind of the overarching thing of texas
6:02
barbecue uh do you notice like you were
6:05
saying like different communities start to
6:06
highlight different things or do you see
6:08
regional flair that you're like hey i
6:11
remember going from east texas and i got
6:13
this and you know so is that regional
6:15
thing as strong as what we think it
6:16
is as outsiders
6:19
um probably not um and i say that
6:21
because it used to be a lot stronger
6:23
okay now especially with the new barbecue
6:26
joints that open there's there's a lot of
6:28
uh it's pretty homogenous really like
6:31
there's just a lot of the same style
6:33
of barbecue all over the state now instead
6:35
of those more individualized styles
6:38
You know, it's still fantastic barbecue.
6:40
I mean, GW's barbecue down in San Juan,
6:43
down in the Valley.
6:44
It's number five on our latest top-fifty
6:47
list.
6:47
I love it.
6:48
They make incredible barbecue,
6:50
but that barbecue isn't really of its
6:52
place, right?
6:53
It's not like we're doing Valley barbecue.
6:55
We're doing South Texas barbecue.
6:56
They're like,
6:57
we're going to do Central Texas-style
6:59
barbecue or Big City-style barbecue,
7:02
and we're going to do it as good
7:03
as we can do it,
7:04
and that's what we're going to serve,
7:05
and that's what we're going to offer.
7:07
And that's really been the way that a
7:10
lot of barbecue joints or really the
7:12
majority of barbecue joints that have
7:13
opened, I'd say over the last decade,
7:16
have gone that route rather than like,
7:18
let's really like focus on a South Texas
7:22
barbecue menu or an East Texas barbecue
7:24
staples.
7:24
You know,
7:25
you get some of those things like out
7:27
the further west you get in Texas,
7:29
really the more green chilies you find
7:31
instead of jalapenos.
7:32
because you're getting closer to New
7:33
Mexico.
7:35
There's still some variety in the wood
7:37
usage where, you know,
7:40
South Texas and West Texas still prefers
7:42
that dose of mesquite,
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even if the mesquite's just a part of
7:46
the smoke being used.
7:48
But that sameness of the post oak,
7:51
like the tyranny of post oak,
7:54
has taken over most of Texas.
7:56
So it's really hard to find...
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places using hickory or pecan or really
8:01
any hardwood other than post-op no you get
8:08
outside of texas as well right so when
8:11
you you're traveling through texas and you
8:15
have overall you can
8:19
you get outside of Texas and everybody
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says, you know, is it Texas style?
8:23
You know, is it,
8:24
is it Kansas city style?
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Is it, is it mopped with a vinegar?
8:28
Is it,
8:29
what is what style of barbecue is it?
8:31
Right.
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Right.
8:32
And, uh, something I've noticed here in,
8:36
in, in my city,
8:38
just being just south of Nashville is, uh,
8:42
Texas style ish barbecue.
8:44
When I say that it's, you know, people,
8:50
It's new,
8:51
even though it's been around forever.
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It's still very new to this area.
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If I sell out a brisket at six
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o'clock or four o'clock or whatever time,
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uh people go crazy they just what do
9:09
you mean you're out you know cook cook
9:11
another one well yeah and i mean texas
9:14
barbecue uh for a long time was really
9:17
seen as like the you know the stepchild
9:20
like the the weird beef barbecue people uh
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whereas southern barbecue that was that is
9:25
uh pork focused was seen as the more
9:27
normalized version of american barbecue
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And I think that's really flipped where
9:33
it's hard to go around and find a
9:36
barbecue joint in the south that opens up
9:38
really anywhere in the country that opens
9:39
up without brisket on them.
9:42
And, you know,
9:42
I think that brisket alone doesn't make it
9:44
Texas style,
9:45
but certainly that is Texas influence.
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For me, if it's Texas style,
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there's got to be a few more hallmarks.
9:52
I mean, beef is certainly a big deal,
9:56
is a big marker.
9:57
I think making sausage as well,
9:59
beef sausages.
10:01
um having that the the offset smoker
10:03
cooking with wood um is another big marker
10:06
usually post oak no matter where it is
10:09
in the country and you know throw up
10:12
a texas flag or two why not but
10:14
yeah i think the introduction of brisket
10:19
is certainly a new thing for most of
10:21
the south um
10:23
And as barbecue fans,
10:25
it's like something that we almost take
10:26
for granted these days.
10:29
And that's crazy because it's brand new.
10:30
Like it's only it's been a few years
10:32
that that development has happened.
10:35
And I think you've seen the correlation in
10:37
the price of brisket right along with
10:40
that,
10:41
where it used to be an inexpensive cut.
10:45
One of the big reasons being that.
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The only barbecue style that they valued
10:49
it or used it was Texas.
10:51
And now everybody in the country is
10:54
looking for brisket and they're still only
10:56
two per animal.
10:57
So the price is going up on it.
11:01
It keeps going up for sure.
11:03
Do you find in my small community of
11:10
barbecue friends,
11:12
I found over the last probably decade or
11:14
so that people have gone away from buying
11:19
choice briskets and are now,
11:22
for the most part,
11:23
I don't know if I know anybody that's
11:25
using choice anymore.
11:26
I think everybody has kind of moved to
11:28
the prime and now are even moving to
11:30
Wagyu in some parts of the country.
11:34
to just try to elevate that brisket,
11:36
even that more.
11:38
And when I,
11:40
so I bring that up because do you
11:42
believe as somebody that the amount of
11:44
barbecue eat and the joints that you go
11:46
to,
11:47
do you think it matters as much as
11:51
the quality of the piece of meat?
11:53
Or is it the person that's cooking it
11:55
that that's taking care of every ounce of
11:59
that meat to make it what it should
12:01
be?
12:02
Yeah,
12:02
I think the person and the team that
12:04
is cooking it, that's producing it,
12:06
is certainly more important than the
12:08
individual cuts of meat that are selected
12:11
to smoke.
12:13
But certainly the cut of meat can help
12:14
you out, right?
12:15
Like the prime grade is especially going
12:18
to help you out on the lean side
12:19
of the brisket with adding a little bit
12:20
more marbling.
12:21
That fatty side is going to have its
12:22
fat anyway.
12:23
whether it's Wagyu or whether it's Select.
12:25
And certainly we've seen the trend in
12:29
Texas go toward prime briskets and a lot
12:33
of the big name places using prime
12:35
briskets.
12:35
But I've seen that back off as well
12:39
with
12:39
The if we're talking about the amount of
12:42
briskets out there that are available,
12:43
the amount of prime briskets out there
12:45
that are available is far less as a
12:47
percentage.
12:48
So I've seen a lot of places go
12:50
to choice,
12:51
go back to choice even and or that
12:53
upper two thirds choice,
12:55
which most of your branded programs that
12:58
are advertising a brand name or a.
13:01
a product name like certified angus b for
13:04
using upper two-thirds choice brisket uh
13:07
and you know that's that's been a trend
13:10
uh sort of a reverse trend that i've
13:11
seen of uh of places going away from
13:14
choice do you think that's a a price
13:18
point yeah absolutely about price point i
13:21
mean the uh
13:23
And there's been three different barbecue
13:25
joints that I've seen over the last month
13:27
or so that just aren't offering brisket or
13:30
aren't offering brisket at all in Texas or
13:33
aren't offering brisket every day in
13:34
Texas, which, you know,
13:37
a few years ago I would have said
13:39
that was ridiculous,
13:41
that that would never happen.
13:43
But Kalachni Barbecue in Hallettsville,
13:45
small town,
13:47
they just took it off the menu entirely.
13:50
Casey Lee's Craft Barbecue in Flatonia,
13:54
another small town,
13:55
they took it off the menu.
13:57
And this week,
13:58
Mimsy's Craft Barbecue in another small
14:01
town of Crockett just said,
14:02
we're going to do sliced brisket on
14:04
Saturdays only.
14:05
and that's the only day we're going to
14:07
offer it.
14:07
And I think that has a lot to
14:09
do with the fact that they're in small
14:10
towns,
14:10
and they know what they need to charge
14:14
for brisket, and they're like,
14:16
for what we need to charge for it,
14:18
our customers just aren't going to buy it.
14:20
So instead of losing money on it,
14:24
let's just not have it at all and
14:26
treat it as, in Mimsy's case,
14:28
a special occasion,
14:29
a Saturday-only food where people who are
14:31
coming in from out of town to visit
14:33
are going to do that on Saturday.
14:35
Yeah, we've considered it.
14:37
I considered it pretty hardcore a while
14:39
back when prices went way off the rails
14:43
and we got to, you know,
14:45
seven plus eight dollars a pound for some
14:47
prime brisket.
14:48
It was getting a little...
14:50
It's getting a little hairy in the
14:51
pocketbook.
14:52
But, you know,
14:54
when you build a name on it,
14:57
it makes it real difficult to take it
14:58
off the menu.
14:59
So, you know,
15:01
I had multiple people tell me they would
15:02
riot in front of my restaurant if I
15:03
took brisket off the menu.
15:05
So I'm not going to do that.
15:08
But, yeah, it's good stuff.
15:10
I wouldn't riot, but I'd pitch a fit.
15:11
Yeah, yeah.
15:14
Well, let's take a quick break,
15:15
and we'll come back and talk about you
15:17
pitching a fit.
15:18
Yeah.
15:22
welcome back to singletree nation guys i'm
15:24
your man charlie we are here with daniel
15:27
vaughn from the texas monthly in the top
15:32
fifty list he is the man the myth
15:34
legend when it comes to all things
15:36
barbecue and uh he is probably he's
15:40
probably eaten more barbecue than i've
15:41
cooked
15:42
It's gotta be close.
15:43
I mean,
15:44
just the number of years involved and I'm
15:46
glad you kind of segued into that.
15:48
Daniel,
15:49
as I was kind of going over and
15:50
I'm looking at like your top ten and
15:52
kind of getting into stuff,
15:54
a couple of things jumped out at me.
15:57
But my first thought when I read the
16:00
whole thing,
16:01
is there anywhere
16:11
I bet his laptop battery died or something
16:13
silly.
16:15
Like that's exactly what would happen to
16:16
me.
16:17
Just cooking right along.
16:24
There he is.
16:32
I don't know if you can hear me,
16:33
but I can't hear you.
16:40
I like that recording.
16:41
It just kept going the whole time.
16:43
We could just splice it out and go
16:45
right back in.
16:47
Trent went to the restroom, I guess.
16:48
It's a good thing.
16:52
Can't hear you.
16:53
Can you hear me?
16:56
Yeah, I can't hear you.
17:00
I'm not going to play around with his
17:01
controls.
17:04
SOS, Trent.
17:11
I don't see any one of those funny
17:15
beverages he drinks.
17:18
I don't see those over there.
17:19
White cloth.
17:20
White cloth.
17:24
No white cloth for you.
17:25
No white cloth.
17:26
That's why you had no boyfriend.
17:27
Oh, my gosh.
17:31
That was great.
17:33
Hey, see if we've lost his audio.
17:35
We've lost him altogether now.
17:37
Oh, he's gone again.
17:38
All right.
17:41
Welcome back, guys, to Singletree Nation.
17:43
I'm your man, Charlie.
17:44
We are here with Daniel Vaughn from Texas
17:48
Monthly, the man, the myth,
17:50
the legend when it comes to all things
17:51
barbecue.
17:52
He's probably eaten more barbecue than
17:54
I've even cooked.
17:55
Yeah, and I was perusing his top ten,
17:59
Texas Monthly's top ten.
18:01
Can I call it your top ten?
18:02
Is it like, I mean,
18:03
are you the one that makes the list?
18:05
Yeah.
18:06
Yeah, I mean,
18:07
there's a big team of us that go
18:08
out and scour the state.
18:11
But in the end, yeah,
18:12
I'll take responsibility for that top ten.
18:17
Yeah,
18:17
the top ten and the ranking one through
18:19
ten.
18:20
There's certainly a lot of discussions
18:21
that I have with the team.
18:23
But in the end, it's my call.
18:26
So that got me to thinking.
18:29
Is there that one bite or that one
18:33
place, that one dish that you're like,
18:36
I'm looking forward to trying that this
18:37
year.
18:37
Like when you're,
18:38
when you start to stack that list of
18:40
restaurants together,
18:41
that one that comes to mind that you're
18:43
like, this is where I want to go.
18:46
uh yeah um you know certainly you know
18:49
we do it every four years and so
18:51
um you know we've got a a top
18:54
ten that we're working from um you know
18:57
when we're making those new visits right
18:59
and so yeah uh and some of my
19:02
favorite things like i will sort of stay
19:05
away from them when i'm making my normal
19:08
visits like
19:10
if it makes any sense like the peach
19:12
tea glaze pork belly burn-in from
19:14
interstellar barbecue like i know it i
19:16
love it i don't want to get sick
19:18
of it so when i go in to
19:19
interstellar and i'm not there to like
19:22
judge the barbecue i normally stay away
19:24
from it and try something new right and
19:26
so then when we're going back for the
19:28
for the judging uh and for determining
19:30
that that top fifty
19:32
uh then i certainly order it and sort
19:35
of get reintroduced to it and reminded
19:40
like how special it is uh same thing
19:43
for the beef rib at louis miller like
19:45
i do a lot of uh
19:48
I do a lot of my travel alone.
19:50
And so sometimes things like half chicken
19:52
or a beef rib just sort of seems
19:53
really wasteful to order when I'm on my
19:56
own.
19:57
But when it's top fifty time,
19:58
like I got to get it,
19:59
like I got to try the specialty.
20:01
Right.
20:02
Right.
20:02
And so getting that beef rib at Louie
20:04
Miller Barbecue is I mean, it's decadent.
20:07
It's probably going to be like sixty bucks
20:09
all on its own because they're so massive.
20:11
Like they take out the center bone of
20:13
that three rib rack.
20:15
And so you're essentially getting half of
20:17
a rack of beef ribs when you order
20:19
it.
20:19
And so it's huge and it's expensive,
20:22
but it's fantastic.
20:23
Like it's one of the best bites out
20:25
there.
20:25
And it's another one of those bites that
20:27
like you've got to remind yourself like
20:29
how good it is every time,
20:32
every time you get it.
20:33
Like, wow, this is special every time.
20:36
So, yeah,
20:37
there are those knowing that I've got to
20:40
force myself to to get up early and
20:43
get to burnt bean barbecue for breakfast
20:45
service on a Sunday morning.
20:48
Like there's no excuses.
20:50
Got to do it.
20:50
Got to make it happen.
20:52
And I'm going to be rewarded, though,
20:53
with that incredible barbecue brunch that
20:55
they do,
20:56
which is they only do that once a
20:57
week.
20:59
And there's no other restaurant menu like
21:01
it.
21:02
I'm glad you brought up burnt bean.
21:04
because your pro tip for burnt bean which
21:06
by the way i loved that you offered
21:07
a pro tip for each restaurant of kind
21:10
of here's the little kicker make sure you
21:11
get what you want bourbon peach cobbler
21:16
taco dessert
21:19
yes a million words have been written
21:22
about this and they all fail to capture
21:25
how great it truly is i'm ready to
21:29
go to texas just to try at the
21:31
burnt bean companies uh what would i say
21:34
bourbon peach cobbler taco can you give me
21:38
yeah peach cobbler ice cream taco as well
21:41
so yeah is it just what it says
21:44
i mean like that i'm trying to frame
21:46
taco into a dessert realm you know what
21:48
i'm saying so
21:49
yeah so take a flour tortilla and fry
21:53
it and coat it with some cinnamon and
21:55
sugar and put in a scoop of ice
21:59
cream and put in all the topping or
22:01
I'm sorry all the
22:03
the filling that you would have in peach
22:05
cobbler,
22:07
and then sprinkle some good crunchies over
22:09
top, and then fold it all together.
22:12
I mean, it's unreal.
22:14
It's so ridiculously good.
22:18
He has got to be one of my...
22:21
from a barbecue standpoint,
22:24
like he's been on my,
22:25
he's actually on my list to reach out
22:26
to, to have on our show.
22:28
And, uh,
22:31
but he's gotta be one of my all
22:32
time favorite people from just the things
22:35
that I've seen and learned about him
22:37
through short form biographies and your,
22:43
your, uh, uh,
22:48
editorial about him all the stuff that
22:50
everything that i've read everything that
22:52
i've seen about burnt bean has just been
22:55
incredible and yeah i mean the man is
22:58
just creativity is just crazy and and
23:02
they're like the perfect team too so you
23:03
got you got david kirkland who uh really
23:07
is back there running the pits and making
23:08
sure that all the barbecue itself is
23:10
flawless
23:11
And then you have Ernest,
23:12
who's that creative chef's mind,
23:14
who's coming up with all the different
23:16
specials and, you know,
23:18
coming up with all those different
23:19
breakfast items and always looking for the
23:23
next step.
23:24
Like what's the next step that they can
23:26
take in in the restaurant and in barbecue?
23:29
Like what more can they offer to barbecue?
23:33
And that's special.
23:33
I don't feel like I feel like there's
23:35
there's a ton of.
23:38
There's a ton of exceptional pit masters
23:41
in this world.
23:42
There's a ton of exceptional culinary
23:44
minds that run barbecue joints.
23:48
There's not always exceptional.
23:51
Some guys, and it's fine.
23:53
Some guys are just,
23:55
they're happy and proud of coming in every
23:57
day and just nailing that perfect brisket
24:02
and getting that brisket to be perfect
24:04
every single time.
24:05
And that's what they're known for and
24:07
they're proud of it and they're doing a
24:08
phenomenal job.
24:10
like earnest and his team at burnt bean
24:12
they it seems like they are always trying
24:15
to take it to the next level and
24:18
develop flavors and things that nobody's
24:21
ever seen before you know it's kind of
24:23
like bill bill dumas with uh his sausage
24:26
like the dude is coming up with just
24:29
some crazy things to just take it to
24:32
the next level every day right like yes
24:35
you know i mean that dude posted a
24:36
a and i don't know if you saw
24:38
it or not but it was a was
24:40
it a black truffle and garlic beef sausage
24:45
but it was a solid black sausage
24:48
Yeah.
24:49
Yeah.
24:50
I mean, uh, one of the first,
24:51
one of the first sausages, uh,
24:54
that I had, uh,
24:55
when he was back when he was with
24:57
the smoky Denmark trailer, um,
25:00
they were putting together this whole like
25:02
full meal sausage program where you could
25:06
get there, you know, a boudin and,
25:09
and a pork sausage and then a macaroni
25:11
and cheese sausage and then an apple pie
25:13
sausage.
25:14
Like it's like,
25:16
Yeah,
25:16
he's been doing that wacky stuff from the
25:18
beginning.
25:20
And back then it was wacky.
25:21
Nowadays,
25:22
he's gotten a little more refined and,
25:24
you know,
25:25
has really honed in on process and how
25:28
to turn in,
25:29
turn all of those or pretty much any
25:31
recipe he can come up with into a
25:34
sausage and like put that full recipe or
25:37
full meal or whatever it is into a
25:38
casing.
25:39
yeah how many of your restaurants in texas
25:42
not necessarily top fee but just the ones
25:44
you've seen are now doing their own
25:46
in-house sausage um yeah so many of them
25:51
i think just everyone on the top fifty
25:54
probably um
25:56
Let's see, Pinkerton's.
25:58
Yeah,
25:58
Pinkerton started doing their own sausage
26:00
in their new location.
26:02
But yeah, it's very prevalent.
26:03
I mean,
26:04
from old meat market style barbecue joints
26:06
to the new ones, making your own sausage.
26:09
It's just one of those ways that you
26:10
can really show off your own sort of
26:13
personality and your own taste,
26:14
much more so in like a different
26:16
ingredient in your rib rub or your brisket
26:18
rub, right?
26:19
Like you can really show off that.
26:21
your creativity and also just different
26:25
local ingredients in the sausages that you
26:27
can produce.
26:29
Yeah, it's
26:32
I have always sucked at making sausage.
26:35
You don't now.
26:37
Well, thank you.
26:38
And about two years ago,
26:41
I started trying to make my own sausage.
26:45
And I don't know if you've ever seen
26:47
a wounded duck,
26:49
but that's what it looked like when I
26:51
was trying to make sausage.
26:53
I looked like a wounded duck trying to
26:55
walk down the sidewalk.
26:56
It was tough.
26:57
Well, it was brutal.
26:58
If you've never really gotten good at
27:00
making sausage and somebody been taught,
27:02
teach you how to do it,
27:03
oh my goodness, it's brutal.
27:05
But we've learned a couple of things.
27:07
Well, you know,
27:08
Daniel brought up the fact that you get
27:09
to kind of play around your own favorite
27:11
profile.
27:11
He made one recently that had like a
27:14
chimichurri in it.
27:15
And it was just subtle,
27:16
but it was there and it was enough.
27:17
And chimichurri doesn't scream barbecue.
27:19
But when you're in there with the all
27:21
beef and everything,
27:22
it just like it just screams just the
27:25
tastiness because that flavor profile
27:26
starts showing up.
27:27
And I'd read where I thought it was
27:30
all of your top fifty had started doing
27:32
that.
27:32
And so I was curious,
27:34
is that more of a trend?
27:35
Is it more of a hey,
27:37
we want to use our trimmings and save
27:39
money.
27:40
It's hey,
27:40
we've got another product that's sitting
27:41
over here from what we're doing.
27:43
Or is it also is that just a
27:46
byproduct of being rooted in
27:48
we want to show off a little bit
27:49
and show off what we do,
27:51
show off our style, so to speak.
27:54
Well,
27:54
I think a lot of it just goes
27:55
back to the history of Texas barbecue and
27:57
the foundation of it,
27:58
which is the old meat markets where
28:01
sausage making was a necessity.
28:05
And, you know,
28:06
it was all about using up leftover meats,
28:08
whether that was whole meats that went
28:10
into the smoker or were ground up and
28:12
put into sausages.
28:13
But sausage sausage has always been a part
28:16
of that market style of barbecue.
28:19
And, you know,
28:20
these days you can't afford not to use
28:23
every bit of the brisket that you're
28:26
purchasing, right?
28:28
Or any sort of trim that you've got
28:29
from your pork butts or your ribs or
28:31
whatever it might be.
28:32
So, you know,
28:34
for those who maybe can't sell as much
28:37
sausage as they'd like,
28:39
the brisket burger has become quite
28:40
popular as well as something to sell.
28:42
But yeah,
28:43
selling a hundred percent of your brisket
28:45
in some way...
28:47
So selling a hundred percent of your
28:49
brisket in some way.
28:50
And, you know, the, the beef,
28:52
the jars of beef tallow for sale at
28:54
barbecue joints have certainly risen along
28:56
with that as a money saving opportunity
28:59
or, you know,
29:00
try and make some money off of whatever
29:02
ingredients or whatever, you know,
29:04
trimmings you can get off of that brisket.
29:05
But yeah,
29:07
I think they really do go hand in
29:08
hand,
29:08
the history and just trying to be as
29:11
profitable as you possibly can.
29:14
It's amazing, man.
29:15
When you get into it,
29:19
I kind of brought it up earlier.
29:20
I'm not sure Murfreesboro is ready for a
29:24
real barbecue joint.
29:26
And I kind of put my own twist
29:28
on it.
29:28
We're full service.
29:29
We're not counter service.
29:30
We do a couple of things a little
29:31
bit different than you would typically see
29:33
at a Texas place.
29:36
You walk into Snow's or Interstellar or
29:40
any of these others, right?
29:44
The sausage side is crazy.
29:50
I replaced an all-beef hot dog that I
29:53
had on my menu,
29:54
and I called it a slaw dog.
29:56
And I took just the old regular hot
29:57
dog off of the bun and then stopped
30:00
buying it and replaced it with an all-beef
30:04
sausage that we make.
30:07
And I had somebody two days ago.
30:11
did not ask for your old hot dog
30:14
they asked for the old you can't please
30:17
everyone that's all and and i was like
30:20
look i'm here to make you happy whatever
30:22
you whatever you want but you keep one
30:24
of the bags that is we'll throw one
30:26
in the deep fryer that's right that's
30:30
better than when i was searching around
30:32
the country and i stopped in denver and
30:35
i um i stopped at a place and
30:38
they had a
30:38
Their,
30:39
their sausage of the day was a hot
30:41
dog.
30:41
I was like, Oh great.
30:42
Like house made hot dog.
30:44
And I, they, they weren't quite ready yet.
30:47
And when I went and sat down,
30:48
I realized why,
30:49
because I looked out the window at the
30:51
pit and the guy out there was opening
30:53
a package of hot dogs and was putting
30:56
them on the pit,
30:56
like on the hot side of the pit
30:58
to heat them up.
30:58
And I was like,
30:59
I don't think I need to wait around
31:01
for this.
31:01
Like I've had this before.
31:04
I've had this before.
31:05
Yeah.
31:08
But they were honest with you.
31:09
They told you it was a hot dog.
31:12
They did say it was a hot dog.
31:13
They certainly implied that it was a
31:15
specialty house made sausage of the day.
31:18
But yeah,
31:20
when you get in there and you see
31:22
you're going through Texas and you see
31:24
some of these pit setups and you see
31:26
these massive tanks where they've got six
31:28
doors and they got whatever.
31:30
is there any ever a wow factor when
31:32
you're like oh my goodness like this is
31:34
the set of or is it because every
31:37
location is so different they just roll
31:40
with what they have but like and the
31:42
reason i bring this up we were recently
31:44
traveling with his smoker and people were
31:46
just stopping by to say hey it's a
31:47
smoker like it was just like oh my
31:49
look you know and i found that comical
31:52
from as a as the third party you
31:54
know just like this is silly
31:56
do you ever see that one set up
31:58
now that you've kind of been in
32:00
everybody's front door where you're like
32:01
oh they got the one yeah i mean
32:06
i would have to say vaqueros uh which
32:08
is in allen texas uh used to be
32:11
a food truck and they moved into a
32:13
brick and mortar location and they're in a
32:16
fancy like they're in a development waters
32:19
creek
32:19
Uh, and it is, uh, the,
32:22
in the restaurant, like the front door,
32:24
before you go into the front door,
32:25
you pass by this huge picture window,
32:28
which is the pit room into the pit
32:30
room, like right out front.
32:33
And the smokers are painted.
32:35
They're like, um, uh,
32:38
They're like a Mayan look to them like
32:40
they've got different.
32:43
It's got this like specific motif to it.
32:45
Right.
32:45
And they are, I mean, beautiful.
32:48
The floor is shiny.
32:50
Like there's a M&M smoker rotisserie in
32:54
the background that also has a specialty
32:56
paint job to it.
32:58
So, yeah, I mean, they are show pieces.
33:00
And, you know,
33:01
I think a lot of times,
33:02
like when you're in barbecue,
33:03
you sort of take it for granted.
33:06
What a thousand gallon smoker.
33:08
Certainly one that's got like a fresh
33:10
paint job.
33:10
Right.
33:11
What sort of head turner it can be.
33:14
But I mean,
33:14
it's a really unique kind of cooking
33:17
machine.
33:17
Right.
33:18
Like especially the fact that it isn't
33:21
mechanical.
33:23
It just has a fire on one end
33:24
and an exhaust on the other end.
33:27
And that does all the work for you.
33:29
Um, you don't have fans and, and,
33:32
and all that going on.
33:33
It doesn't plug into anything.
33:34
Uh,
33:35
so I do think that is a certainly
33:37
unique cooking machine.
33:40
Um, and you know, on the flip side,
33:42
like a barbecue pit room is, is,
33:45
is sort of filthy as they can become
33:47
is about the only one you can walk
33:48
into and be like, uh,
33:51
know any other kitchen that you walked any
33:53
other restaurant kitchen that you walked
33:54
into that was uh like most restaurant pit
33:57
rooms you'd be like i'm not eating here
33:58
right but if it's got a smoker in
34:01
it then it's fine the better let's go
34:05
my pit i have a thousand gallon primitive
34:07
pit
34:08
and it sits in the front of my
34:09
parking lot you know probably fifty yards
34:12
away from my front door and if if
34:16
you took everything that was in and
34:18
attached to the floor and up from my
34:21
smoker and put it inside people would say
34:23
just that I'm not eating right but because
34:26
it's because it's a big smoker and it's
34:28
sitting out front people go oh that's
34:30
great
34:31
it's your stack it's the it's the ten
34:33
inch like and that thing is twelve feet
34:35
tall yeah gosh but like that thing stands
34:40
out it's it's held the color you know
34:42
the heat hadn't just just distorted or
34:44
whatever and you see it coming like now
34:46
look i will tell you three years ago
34:49
or longer whenever i bought that pit and
34:51
it's been a while
34:53
Before it set out in the sun and
34:55
the pollen and the rain and the snow
34:56
and all the things that it had,
34:58
it happened to it and got a little
35:00
bit of patina going on to it.
35:01
It was pretty.
35:02
Oh, it's still gorgeous.
35:04
It's still gorgeous.
35:04
But, you know, it happens.
35:06
So, all right, well, I digress.
35:09
Daniel,
35:09
one of the things that I was thinking
35:11
about the other day is, excuse me.
35:15
You go to,
35:17
there's no telling how many barbecue
35:18
joints.
35:19
Do you have an idea how many barbecue
35:20
joints you, so it's,
35:22
you got a couple of years before your
35:25
list comes out, right?
35:26
You can't eat at every barbecue joint in
35:30
Texas in three hundred and sixty five
35:32
days.
35:33
that is correct so i know you got
35:36
a i know you got a team of
35:37
people and and they help you but like
35:41
how early do you start working like
35:43
because the this list came out was it
35:46
last year it came out in it came
35:49
out in uh may it comes comes out
35:52
came out on our june issue so it
35:53
came out in late may
35:55
But we had to have the list finalized
35:58
the first weekend in March in order to
36:02
have everything,
36:03
get all the reviews written and get it
36:05
ready for print.
36:07
The print magazine timeline is a little
36:09
far out.
36:10
So six months before that is really when
36:13
we started in earnest on our search.
36:15
So six months before we had to have
36:17
that list finalized.
36:18
So in the first four months of that,
36:22
I was just out –
36:25
Sort of doing my own thing,
36:27
going to places that I thought might have
36:29
top ten potential for, you know,
36:30
checking them out.
36:31
And then I have my own territories to
36:34
cover in the state,
36:35
along with all the other folks who have
36:37
their individual territories.
36:39
And then when the new year came around,
36:41
I had two months to get to I
36:43
think I went to one hundred and eighteen
36:45
different barbecue joints in those two
36:47
months.
36:48
Sixty days you went to one hundred and
36:50
eighteen places.
36:51
i think it was like sixty three days
36:53
but it's two a day it was a
36:55
lot it was a lot like that was
36:56
um yeah god that was a lot i
37:06
feel bad for you just sitting there
37:07
I did have a flashback,
37:09
but like the relief that I felt on
37:11
that final day, because the last day,
37:14
the last second to last visit was burnt
37:16
bean.
37:17
And that's when we could get a good
37:19
group of people together because I really
37:21
felt like it was up there in contention.
37:24
You know, for for number one,
37:26
but I wanted to get more people around
37:28
for, you know,
37:29
to to be able to get their opinion
37:31
as well.
37:31
And and Pat Sharp, who I mentioned before,
37:34
was able to join us for that as
37:36
well, which was special.
37:37
And, you know,
37:39
we went there and then we went to
37:41
to Reese Bros in San Antonio,
37:43
which is also in our top fifty.
37:45
And then I flew home.
37:47
And then I took a little break from
37:50
barbecue.
37:51
Uh, not that long of a break actually,
37:53
but I took a little break from barbecue,
37:55
uh, just to, uh, and, and, you know,
37:57
started putting together who was going to
38:00
be in that, uh, that top fifty list.
38:02
And, um, yeah, I mean.
38:05
Now,
38:05
when you're going through and judging all
38:08
the places in Texas for the top fifty,
38:11
Are you, is it a,
38:13
like you're in judge mode and you
38:14
mentioned earlier about the peach tea
38:16
glazed pork belly burnt ends at
38:20
Interstellar.
38:22
Obviously,
38:23
you have your top fifty from twenty five,
38:26
right?
38:27
So when we get to twenty nine and
38:28
you start thinking about, OK, hey,
38:30
where am I going to go?
38:34
You take those top ten,
38:36
those top fifty and go, OK, well,
38:37
these people were pretty good maybe.
38:39
But I've heard that, you know,
38:41
number forty eight has really done a lot
38:44
of great things over the last three years.
38:47
So how do you prioritize and go and
38:52
start making the list of,
38:54
and then obviously the new joints that
38:56
open up, right?
38:58
How do you go, okay, hey,
39:00
I've heard a lot of great things from
39:01
this.
39:02
Is it the word of mouth,
39:03
just like you would if you're a regular
39:04
guest in the neighborhood?
39:06
Or do you have secret shoppers out in
39:10
the world that go, hey, Daniel,
39:12
you need to go check this place out?
39:15
I don't really have a team of secret
39:17
shoppers or anything like that.
39:19
I've got a lot of people who give
39:20
me recommendations,
39:21
whether it's through social media or email
39:24
or whatnot about their favorite spot or a
39:27
new one they just happened upon.
39:28
Or usually it's somebody's brother just
39:31
opened up a barbecue joint and I've got
39:32
to go try it out.
39:33
And I want to go to them all.
39:35
So we put out a call for nominations
39:40
as well to our readers and say,
39:44
you know,
39:45
we're going to go out and search for
39:46
the top fifty here soon.
39:48
Do you have a spot that's not in
39:50
our top fifty or our honorable mentions
39:51
already?
39:52
Because those are already going to be in
39:54
our list to visit for sure.
39:56
Do you have any spots that we should
39:57
try?
39:57
And we put all of those spots into
39:59
that list as well and put those on
40:02
our must visit list.
40:03
And then, yeah,
40:04
all the new places that open,
40:06
I keep a giant Google map of the
40:09
places I've been to and haven't been to.
40:11
And so if I haven't been to it,
40:12
then I want somebody to go out and
40:14
try it.
40:15
Because if I get a great score back
40:18
from that place, then yeah, I mean,
40:19
that's great.
40:20
I want to go out and find this
40:22
hidden gem, right?
40:24
So yeah,
40:25
it's a variety of ways that I find
40:28
out about new places.
40:29
But when it comes time to make that
40:31
list of the spots we're going to visit,
40:33
there's probably, you know,
40:36
three hundred and fifty to four hundred
40:38
that are on there of spots that we're
40:40
going to go try to whittle it back
40:42
down to fifty.
40:43
And we try to really just start from
40:45
scratch, right?
40:46
Like that's one of the reasons we do
40:47
it every four years.
40:48
I think if you try to do a
40:49
list like this every year,
40:51
You're going to end up just having a
40:52
lot of repeats, right?
40:53
Because you're relying on recent
40:55
information from the year prior.
40:57
Whereas when you get that four year
40:58
separation,
40:59
it's a reason why our turnover is always
41:01
so high.
41:01
Like the top fifty is usually about twenty
41:04
five new spots get on to the top
41:06
fifty every time and only twenty five of
41:09
the previous top fifty remains.
41:11
And that's because we really do look at
41:13
it fresh and it's,
41:15
it's what is your barbecue like right now,
41:18
uh, in the,
41:19
in the visits that we can get to
41:21
your restaurant.
41:22
So, um, I'm glad you brought that up.
41:24
Yeah.
41:25
In the top.
41:27
Of is there, is there,
41:31
and how many have been there back to
41:36
back to back to back?
41:39
Well, I mean,
41:41
Louie Miller Barbecue in Taylor,
41:42
Texas is in rarefied air.
41:45
They were in our very first barbecue issue
41:49
that came out was not a top-fifty barbecue
41:52
list,
41:53
but it was in the third-ever issue of
41:55
Texas Monthly back in the year.
41:59
And that one,
42:01
Louie Miller Barbecue was mentioned in
42:04
that one,
42:04
and they have been a part of the
42:06
top-fifty in every top-fifty that's come
42:08
out.
42:09
wow and they are the only ones they're
42:13
the only ones uh that are in that
42:15
category so with that i mean you got
42:18
the top fifty's been around since ninety
42:20
nine nineteen ninety seven was the first
42:23
one that we published yeah so what is
42:25
that twenty nine years twenty eight years
42:27
something like that so and every four
42:30
years you've done it so for thirty years
42:33
essentially they've been in the top fifty
42:38
how do they i mean the consistency there
42:42
alone has to catapult them into the top
42:46
ten of hey we gotta go check them
42:49
out immediately yeah i mean i also wrote
42:53
an article i think last year or maybe
42:56
the year before about how many people had
42:58
their barbecue epiphany at louis miller
43:00
barbecue specifically
43:02
Like how many people's either decided that
43:05
they needed a career in barbecue after
43:07
eating there or maybe were dabbling in
43:10
barbecue and realized that this is
43:13
something they needed to pursue more
43:15
seriously.
43:17
And the list is pretty staggering of names
43:20
that you would be really familiar with.
43:22
uh looking down through like uh billy
43:24
durney at a hometown barbecue uh danielle
43:27
bennett in the uh in the competition
43:29
barbecue world um uh aaron franklin
43:35
The first time he went and had barbecue,
43:37
Louie Miller was transformative in his
43:40
view of what barbecue is and could be.
43:43
So yeah,
43:44
it's one of those places that is not
43:46
only storied and influential,
43:52
it's still putting out incredible barbecue
43:54
day in, day out.
43:56
That's awesome.
44:00
You get a lot of people say, hey,
44:02
you got to go check this place out.
44:05
How many and I don't want you to
44:07
give me names of places you've been.
44:09
I'm not trying to bash anybody.
44:10
I'm just curious as to because I get
44:13
a lot of inquiries about, hey,
44:14
you got to go check this place out
44:16
myself.
44:16
Right.
44:16
So how many of those four or five
44:20
hundred submissions that you get and you
44:23
go and check it and you go, oh,
44:26
probably probably a waste of my day.
44:29
Well,
44:29
none of them are a waste because firsthand
44:31
opinions are the only thing that matter in
44:33
my business.
44:34
So having a firsthand opinion,
44:36
whether it's negative or positive,
44:37
is a valuable thing to have, right?
44:40
I don't have to wonder.
44:42
That way I actually know.
44:44
But when I go out on a barbecue
44:45
road trip, say,
44:46
I really just write about the barbecue
44:50
that I like.
44:52
We're not talking about the top fifty
44:54
here.
44:54
We're talking about my daily job,
44:57
which is to go out and find barbecue
44:59
stories to write about.
45:01
And I would say about a third of
45:02
the places I visit,
45:03
I end up writing a story about.
45:05
So those are the places that I either
45:08
find a good story, good barbecue, or both.
45:11
And so that's...
45:13
That's sort of the hit rate there.
45:17
You know, these days,
45:18
certainly new barbecue joints,
45:19
I'd say there's a higher percentage chance
45:21
that they're going to be great.
45:23
And then there are still a lot of
45:25
places out there that surprise me.
45:27
Like, I'm going to be going to...
45:31
This place called Mookie's Mesquite Patch
45:35
Barbecue in Coolidge, Texas.
45:37
And I'm sure you haven't heard of the
45:38
place or the city or not a city,
45:42
the town.
45:44
And but I went there on one of
45:46
my like scouting missions where I'm just
45:48
like trying quick, like, you know,
45:51
trying to places as quickly as I can,
45:54
trying to hit as many spots as I
45:55
can.
45:56
and man that that front seat barbecue that
45:59
i was eating was pretty damn impressive
46:00
and so i want to go back and
46:02
try a fuller version of their menu and
46:04
talk more to the ownership there and get
46:06
some idea and i'm guessing i'll hit there
46:09
before this uh show might come out
46:11
probably probably so or before they hear
46:14
it there you go what uh from a
46:18
uh
46:20
outside of texas because you have a list
46:22
that comes out was it every it's every
46:26
four years too for outside of texas too
46:28
i don't i don't know if i'm ever
46:29
going to do that again no okay in
46:32
in texas in texas is tough uh outside
46:35
of texas that was one hundred percent on
46:37
me
46:38
I didn't have any help putting that list
46:39
together.
46:40
And that was so many miles and so
46:42
many barbecue joints.
46:43
And looking back at it, honestly,
46:46
it was a great experience.
46:47
I loved it.
46:48
I loved traveling the country and trying
46:50
all these places.
46:51
Yeah.
46:53
But looking back at it now, I'm like,
46:55
a lot of the reason I wanted to
46:56
do it was to go to a lot
46:58
of these places for the first time.
47:00
Yeah.
47:00
And now I've done that.
47:02
And I don't know if I want to
47:03
go and do...
47:04
a top fifty texas style barbecue joint
47:07
ranking all over the country again uh that
47:10
was that was more work more travel more
47:14
restaurants than i bargained for because
47:16
as i started it out i had a
47:18
good i thought i had a good handle
47:20
on the amount of places i was going
47:21
to go and the more i traveled and
47:23
the more people started to give me
47:25
recommendations and
47:26
I started doing more research.
47:28
I found more and more places and I
47:30
wanted to be as fair as I could.
47:31
So I wanted to visit as many as
47:33
I possibly could.
47:34
So that was another one where, I mean,
47:36
I was scheduling flights across the
47:41
country in like the week leading up to
47:44
my deadline.
47:45
Cause I'm like, Oh, I don't know.
47:47
This one looks,
47:48
looks like it might be like,
47:49
I gotta get there.
47:51
Um, you know, so it was,
47:54
it was a lot more work than I
47:55
bargained for at the very beginning,
47:56
but it was a lot of fun and
47:59
I'm glad I did it,
47:59
but I don't know if that's going to
48:02
be an every four year thing.
48:03
got it yeah that would be that'd be
48:05
brutal that'd be tough i would have never
48:07
in a million years thought you did that
48:08
by yourself so that speaks for the
48:12
incredible work you did because i would
48:14
have never thought that you could pull
48:15
that off by yourself i know i wouldn't
48:17
want that undertaking right that's oh yeah
48:20
i saw a lot of the country yeah
48:23
yeah why else would you drive all the
48:25
way across nebraska from
48:29
I'm going to use the word monotonous
48:35
drive.
48:35
Is that correct?
48:37
I will say Western Nebraska does not get
48:40
enough love.
48:41
It's beautiful.
48:42
Sandhills area of Nebraska.
48:46
But yeah,
48:46
you got to drive through a lot of
48:49
Nebraska to get there.
48:50
Yeah, for sure.
48:53
Daniel, when you go to a barbecue joint,
48:55
you're not you're not working on the top
48:57
fifty.
48:57
You're not traveling through Nebraska at
49:00
all hours the night.
49:01
You're just going to you're going down the
49:04
street to get some barbecue for the house.
49:08
You walk in, you sit down, you order,
49:11
you get your meats.
49:14
You got to order the mac and cheese
49:17
or the beans.
49:19
Which one are you going,
49:20
what's your go-to,
49:21
the mac or the beans when you go
49:23
into a barbecue joint?
49:25
Hmm, man,
49:28
I'm a sucker for the combination of mac
49:30
and cheese and greens.
49:31
If I see it on the menu,
49:31
like getting both of those together.
49:35
Um, I really do love beans.
49:37
Like I love a great bowl of beans.
49:40
Uh,
49:40
I make a lot of beans at home
49:41
with my leftover barbecue, but yeah,
49:44
I guess I'd go with the mac and
49:45
cheese is, uh, uh,
49:47
if I'm just there for is, you know,
49:49
just there for a meal,
49:50
not there for a review.
49:51
Now, if you were for a review,
49:54
do you order both?
49:56
um definitely the beans uh i might order
49:59
both but i'll definitely get the beans
50:01
because um if you're using some uh if
50:06
you're using some canned beans out of fort
50:07
worth uh then that shows i think a
50:11
little bit about your level of effort that
50:13
you're willing to put into the barbecue uh
50:16
whereas there there's nothing better than
50:19
uh dry beans like
50:21
Making beans from dry beans,
50:23
those pinto beans,
50:26
there's nothing that can match them.
50:28
And so that's what I love.
50:33
I love that.
50:34
Now, the best beans, though,
50:35
the best beans I've had was in California
50:40
at Predight Barbecue.
50:43
And it's a food truck.
50:47
I think he only serves Saturdays and
50:50
Sundays, maybe.
50:52
Really good barbecue.
50:53
I'm trying to think of the town name,
50:54
though.
50:55
It's north of Santa Barbara.
50:58
Um, but they, uh,
51:00
their beans were like the,
51:02
the best bowl of beans and they weren't
51:04
like filled with a bunch of meat and
51:06
whatnot.
51:07
And I asked him how he got them
51:09
so meaty and he's like, well,
51:12
I put all of the smoked meat in
51:14
to simmer with the beans,
51:15
but I just put it in a cheesecloth.
51:17
Right.
51:17
And like,
51:18
keep it so that I can pull it
51:19
out later.
51:19
Um,
51:20
And so he's almost like making the smoked
51:22
meat stock, um,
51:24
that he cooks the beans and he uses
51:26
Pinkito beans,
51:27
which are the smaller Pinto beans that are
51:29
using like Santa Maria style barbecue out
51:31
in California.
51:32
Um,
51:32
and so I've started making my beans at
51:34
home a lot like a pre-diet barbecue does
51:37
theirs cause they were so good.
51:39
that's incredible getting me excited i
51:42
might have to go back to the restaurant
51:47
let's do it all right man you get
51:49
a barbecue boy excited now uh you eat
51:54
a lot of barbecue do you or have
51:58
you ever done any competition barbecue
52:02
I've never cooked.
52:04
Well,
52:04
actually I have cooked for a barbecue
52:05
competition.
52:07
That was, it was a local competition.
52:11
I was on a competition team.
52:13
I did.
52:15
It's like one of those where I definitely
52:16
did the best ribeye steak there.
52:18
They just didn't give it number one or
52:21
two or three.
52:23
It was the best.
52:28
I didn't have any cross hatching on it.
52:29
And I'm like,
52:30
that was really a necessity like no i
52:33
i got i got sear all across this
52:35
thing anyway um but i have judged a
52:38
few competitions i certainly judge more
52:40
amateur like local amateur barbecue
52:42
competitions than i do the the big names
52:45
out there i mean i've judged the jack
52:46
and the royal and um uh i've judged
52:51
a few others but i just don't i
52:53
don't get a lot of joy out of
52:54
that uh
52:57
I'm a storyteller.
52:57
I really like to talk to people about
53:00
how they came up with what they came
53:01
up with.
53:02
And the whole system of competition
53:05
barbecue is that that meat is anonymous,
53:07
right?
53:08
You don't, there is no connection back to,
53:11
to who cooked it.
53:12
And also it all tastes pretty much the
53:15
same.
53:16
And I'm, you know,
53:17
I know competition barbecue folks,
53:19
when they hear that might,
53:20
might scream and yell, but yeah,
53:22
uh, the,
53:23
the last time I judged the Jack,
53:25
it was, uh, our table captain was, uh,
53:29
he was a seasoned veteran of,
53:32
of competition barbecue.
53:33
And he's like, you know, no table talk,
53:35
none of this.
53:36
Right.
53:36
Uh,
53:37
but as soon as all the ribs hit
53:38
the table, he's just like, well,
53:41
it looks like a bunch of people went
53:42
to the same cooking school.
53:43
I was like,
53:46
Yes,
53:46
every one of these ribs looks exactly the
53:49
same and tastes nearly identical.
53:51
And I mean,
53:53
certainly that has something to do with
53:54
the level of competition that you're
53:56
dealing with at the Jack,
53:56
which are the best of the best.
53:59
But yeah, there's just a lot of sameness.
54:02
Yeah, I have done competitions.
54:07
I do competitions,
54:08
but it's more for the camaraderie and the
54:12
kickback,
54:13
laid back kind of style of cooking that
54:16
it provides.
54:16
And Derry and I,
54:18
Derry just did his first competition this
54:20
past weekend with me.
54:21
How'd it go?
54:23
uh it was an incredible experience met a
54:26
lot of folks so you didn't get any
54:27
trophies no you probably had the best
54:32
brisket right it's just oh hands down they
54:34
just didn't judge that they just were
54:36
right they missed my plate they didn't get
54:40
my plate so yeah we uh
54:43
Look, I tell people all the time,
54:45
I'm not a competition barbecue cook.
54:47
Never have been.
54:48
I don't cook for barbecue trophies.
54:51
I go to cook to warm people's souls
54:53
and bring a community together.
54:55
That's the reason I cook.
54:57
I love cooking because sitting down at a
54:58
table with a group of people and chopping
55:01
it up over some brisket and mac and
55:02
cheese or beans or whatever you want,
55:04
ribs, it's just, it's wholesome.
55:09
And you can solve the world's problems at
55:11
the dinner table.
55:13
And it's been my point of view since
55:15
I was knee high to a bullfrog,
55:17
sitting by a fire with my grandfather,
55:19
listening to the war stories that he would
55:20
tell me.
55:21
And in today's world, you know,
55:24
we can learn lessons from sitting at a
55:26
table and chopping it up and trying to
55:28
figure out things.
55:30
Well,
55:31
I think a lot of the reason that
55:33
barbecue cooks open up restaurants is
55:35
because they want that sort of instant
55:38
gratification, that feedback from people.
55:40
Like, I'm able to feed you,
55:42
you're able to enjoy it,
55:44
and we're able to have that moment
55:45
together.
55:46
Yeah, a hundred percent.
55:48
A hundred percent.
55:49
Daniel,
55:49
out of all of the barbecue joints that
55:51
you've eaten,
55:53
Is there,
55:54
you talked about the pork belly burn-ins
55:57
at Interstellar.
55:58
That obviously stuck with you.
56:00
You talk about Burnt Bean and his beans
56:04
and the peach cobbler tacos.
56:09
Is there a place that if you were
56:14
to say, hey,
56:15
I got to go here today,
56:19
And I got to go here tomorrow and
56:21
I got to go.
56:21
You could eat there every day.
56:23
What is not because it's in the top
56:25
fifty or in the list or any of
56:27
that?
56:27
What's your what's your go to barbecue?
56:31
Well, I mean,
56:32
if I'm thinking strategically,
56:33
I would pick Leroy and Lewis barbecue in
56:35
Austin for that just because they have
56:37
such a huge variety.
56:39
I mean, they've got a great smoked burger.
56:41
They've got great they've got great smoked
56:44
beef and pork.
56:45
And I mean, they've got
56:47
It runs the gamut.
56:48
They got steak night.
56:49
They got chicken fried steak on Thursdays.
56:51
I mean, they've got so much.
56:54
But, you know, here I live in Dallas,
56:57
and that's a long way from me.
57:00
So I usually end up at Slow Bone
57:02
here in Dallas if I'm eating with my
57:06
family because my wife,
57:07
who doesn't really like barbecue,
57:09
she loves their smoked chicken.
57:10
I knew it.
57:10
I absolutely knew it.
57:11
I knew you were going to say that
57:13
somebody objected like that.
57:16
yep exactly um my my son loves the
57:20
tots yeah uh slow bone also has the
57:25
best fried chicken in dallas so that
57:26
doesn't hurt um so if i'm if somebody
57:29
comes to town wants to meet for barbecue
57:31
or we just have a hankering for barbecue
57:34
uh and i haven't gone out on a
57:35
road trip recently i'll probably end up
57:38
there at slow bone
57:40
Cadillac barbecue is also one that I go
57:42
to here a lot in town and, uh,
57:43
smoky Joe's too, uh,
57:45
was just down there last week.
57:47
So, or two weeks ago.
57:49
So you have, uh, in,
57:51
if there was a piece of advice that
57:53
you could give a small barbecue guy,
57:57
just getting started, uh,
57:59
what advice would you give them whether
58:02
they're in texas or kalamazoo is at
58:04
michigan doesn't matter what advice would
58:06
you give them as somebody that's probably
58:08
eating more barbecue than anybody else in
58:10
the country what advice would you give
58:13
them to be successful
58:15
Well, uh, I mean, number one is just,
58:17
is keep it as simple as you can
58:18
to begin with.
58:19
Uh,
58:20
it's really hard to understand how much
58:24
barbecue to cook for the customers that
58:27
are coming in or not coming in, uh,
58:29
when you're getting started.
58:30
So don't make it.
58:32
So you have to guess on six different
58:33
meats, you know, uh, keep that menu small.
58:37
That way you can also focus a lot
58:39
more if you're new to cooking barbecue for
58:42
the public.
58:43
You probably think you're pretty good at
58:44
it until you've got to do it day
58:45
after day after day.
58:47
And you've got to put out five or
58:48
ten briskets a day and have them all
58:50
be great.
58:51
So, you know,
58:53
keep that menu as simple as you can
58:55
so that you can focus on that stuff.
58:57
I went to Humo Smokehouse in Del Rio,
59:01
Texas.
59:02
Now,
59:02
the first good barbecue joint that's maybe
59:04
ever opened in Del Rio.
59:06
Um, but when I went,
59:07
they had like eight different meats and
59:09
eight different sides and they were brand
59:10
new.
59:11
There was nobody else in the place and
59:14
they were asking for my advice.
59:16
And I was like, well,
59:17
I'm not really a consultant.
59:18
Like that's not what I do.
59:19
But, uh, you know,
59:21
you have five different beef options on
59:23
this menu right now.
59:25
Uh, you have two different potato salads.
59:27
Why?
59:29
You've got green beans and Brussels
59:31
sprouts.
59:32
Because some people are mustard potato
59:34
salad people and some people aren't.
59:36
They are,
59:37
but if you're a mustard potato salad
59:38
person and that place has mayo potato
59:41
salad,
59:41
then just don't order the potato salad.
59:42
There you go.
59:43
You know,
59:44
Figure out what you want to serve every
59:46
day and serve that every day.
59:49
If you really love cooking the other
59:50
things, maybe do that as your special, um,
59:53
on a particular weekday or weekend day or
59:55
whatnot,
59:55
but like keep it simple and keep it
59:57
focused and don't make it,
59:59
don't make it so hard on yourself in
1:00:00
the smoker and, uh, for your inventory.
1:00:05
yeah yeah good call out good call out
1:00:08
dear you got a friday feel good for
1:00:09
us i do there is a unknown uh
1:00:13
quote well the quotes are unknown but the
1:00:15
author is and it just kind of struck
1:00:17
me today be happy it drives people crazy
1:00:21
there's enough negative in this world just
1:00:23
go out there and be happy get on
1:00:25
some folks nerves because i promise you it
1:00:26
won't stay there for long y'all know what
1:00:28
to do find somebody you know tell them
1:00:29
you love them it's amazing how happiness
1:00:31
can bother people man i love it i
1:00:33
love it outstanding
1:00:34
You smile too much,
1:00:35
and they'll call you out for it.
1:00:36
That's great.
1:00:37
That's great.
1:00:38
Daniel,
1:00:39
I appreciate you coming to hang out with
1:00:41
us today, my friend.
1:00:42
If people want to get a hold of
1:00:43
you and suggest a spot for the Texas
1:00:48
Monthly,
1:00:49
whether it's just an editorial or the top
1:00:51
fifty, how can they do that?
1:00:53
Well, I'm bbqsnob on Instagram and X,
1:00:58
and that's where I get most of my
1:00:59
stuff.
1:01:00
But my email is also on the Texas
1:01:02
Monthly website,
1:01:03
so you can find it there and send
1:01:05
in your suggestions of where I visit via
1:01:08
email too.
1:01:09
Awesome.
1:01:10
Awesome.
1:01:10
Daniel,
1:01:11
we really appreciate you coming to hang
1:01:12
out with us.
1:01:14
Yeah, thank you.
1:01:15
A lot of, a lot of,
1:01:16
a lot of good nuggets in there.
1:01:17
Some great advice and awesome barbecue
1:01:20
joints to go check out.
1:01:21
If you haven't seen the Texas monthly top
1:01:24
fifty list from last year,
1:01:25
please go check it out.
1:01:26
It is incredible.
1:01:28
some of those are some good friends and
1:01:30
amazing chefs so look guys you know what
1:01:33
to do if you want to get involved
1:01:34
with the show please feel free to reach
1:01:36
out to me directly you can email me
1:01:38
at charlie singletreebbq.com you can call
1:01:41
me at six one five three zero seven
1:01:44
zero one two zero and as always make
1:01:47
sure that you like and share and subscribe
1:01:49
to the youtube channel we are every
1:01:51
saturday morning and sunday morning from
1:01:54
eight to nine on espn ninety four point
1:01:56
nine the fan
1:01:58
We look forward to hearing from you.
1:01:59
And until next time, guys,
1:02:01
we'll see you then.
1:02:01
Y'all be good.