Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants with Mary Houlihan

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Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants with Mary Houlihan · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the beck Dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: have women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: in best start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hi,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: my name is Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin, Toronto,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: and you're listening to the Backdeil Cast. This is our podcast,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: how about women? That's right. We talk about the representation
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: of women in movies and how it's usually pitiful. Wow,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: coming in hot. You're listening to our podcast. If you
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  Speaker 1: haven't listened before, what's wrong with you? The freak? Are
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: you doing? You're doing good on the back end. You're
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: joining us now, that's good. So, yes, we talk about
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: movies in relation to their female characters, and we use
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: the Bechdel test as a jumping off point to start
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: that conversation. The test invented by cartoonist Alison Bechdel in
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: eighties that requires a piece of media have a scene
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: and exchange between two women with names. They must be
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: talking about something other than a man for more than
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: two lines of dialog, and wouldn't you know what? Most
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: movies do not pass this test. Do you want to
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: hear me take a really tiny bite of chip. I
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: guess ready, this is the a s m R. Part
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  Speaker 1: that was really that was a good shout out to
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  Speaker 1: the sun Ships. We're not sponsored by sun Chips, but
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  Speaker 1: on one today. So we are now on the How
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  Speaker 1: Stuff Works Network and we're so happy. Yeah, and um,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: we wanted to introduce a new member of our Bettel team.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: She is our new producer, Sophie Lichtmann. Hi, guys, thanks
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  Speaker 1: for helping us. Great Sophie and Aristotle the power team.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: That's right, So now you know Sophie and you're about
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: to know our guest for today's episode. What's on next?
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Here today? And Nick is here Arisottle is still with us,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: but he couldn't be today's recording, so we have our
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: pal Nick subbing in today. What else can we say?
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Recently got a haircut. I think it looks really nice.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: His birthday is coming up. When this gets released, it
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: will have passed. He'll already be twenty six years old.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: For grant, wow, I leaked it did anyways, So let's
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  Speaker 1: also introduce our guest. She is a comedian an artist
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  Speaker 1: and animator and the host of Mary Hula Han's Little podcast,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Mary who Han. Hello, welcome me son Chips. It's a
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: hell of a crunch. She's an entertainer, right, that's really good.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: So today we are talking about the Sisterhood of the
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Traveling Pants summer movie two thousand five flick taking place
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: in this summer. So welcome to summer everybody. The summer
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: bitches hot out there. Wow, so you should stay inside
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: listen to our podcast. And the sans are wearing pants
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: in the summer. Wow. I think maybe of all the
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: disbelief you have to suspend is the fact that people
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: are wearing full denim in Mexico in the summer. That
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: to me is, you know, the true test of friendship.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: That's right. So, Mary, when did you first see this movie?
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: What's your history your relationship with the Sisterhood of the
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Traveling Pants franchise came out in two thousand and five,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: so I wasn't born yet, j K. I don't think
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I saw it in a theater, but I think I
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: rented it. I don't remember if I watched it alone
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: or with friends either. Maybe you had a sisterhood there,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: maybe not? Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, um, and I also
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: read the book, so you have some exposure to it
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: prior to the yeah yeah, yeah, yea, yeah yeah yeah Jamie,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: what about you. I loved this movie and it came out.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: I loved the books. I went with my two cousins
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: and the one friend we made between the three of
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: us who was not directly related to us. Shout out
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Lindsay Tanguay, our one friend. UM. So that was like
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: our group before and we went to see this movie.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: We figured out who was who. It was a lot,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: very exciting. Um yeah, I really loved this book series first,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: and then I mean two thousand five, you've got it all.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: You've got America Ferrara coming in from her Disney Channel
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  Speaker 1: original movie that I really liked, Gotta Kick It Up,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: great movie. You got Rory Gilmore, the world's worst actress
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: in the thing. You've got Joan of Arcadia, and you've
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: got play Lively, who's not even famous yet. It's very excited.
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  Speaker 1: It's just I saw this movie in theaters. We watched
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: it at sleepovers. Afterwards. I read all the books. I
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: love it nice, yes, very good. I had read the
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: books when I was in high school, and I would
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: say I was a little too old for them at
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: the time, because, as I remember reading the part where
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Blake Liveli's character Bridget, it's heavily implied that she loses
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: her virginity, but it is not explicitly stated at all.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: And I was just like, why aren't they just talking
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: about it? They should just come out and stay it,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: And and I was like I was too old and
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: too cool to be reading literature that was like beating
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: around the bush in terms of talking about sex. I
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: was like, I'm too cool for this. I want stuff
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: that talks about sex directly. Timing is everything with a
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: series like this where when you come in because when
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: I when I read these books, I would have been
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: in like fifth grade or something where I would have
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: believed anything this book told me about what teenage girls did,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: because I was just like, oh, yeah, sure what we
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: were talking about this in the car and the way over.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: How I have this very clear memory of the second
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: installment in the book series where there's like the Blake
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Lively character bum in the second movie, she like gains
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: ten pounds during the summer, and it's like made out
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: to be like and this is the worst thing that
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: ever happened to her and she had to jog because
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: and I just like that specific passage stuck with me,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: so like, I don't know, Yeah, when you read books
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: like this when you are a child, who who? I
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: still think about that a couple of times a year.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: The fictional character they gained ten pounds once. Yeah, it's
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: almost as if media for young people has a responsibility to,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: you know, not send out damaging, harmful messages, but it
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: still does all the time. Um I. So I had
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: read the books and I was not necessarily impressed with them,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: even though I read all three I'm pretty sure. And
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: then I was like, I'm not going to see the movie. Also,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: at this time, I was reading a series of books
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: called Angus Thongs and yeah, I was a good series.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: I hesitate to return to them because what if it's not.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: But I loved No, it's good. I was also way
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: too old for those when I read those, and I
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: was similarly not impressed. But um, I that it was
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: like snogging funny. Come on, didn't you think they were funny?
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I was like eighteen, so it was way too cool.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: My Yeah, I mean it's one of those It is
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: like one of those series that I feel like girls
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: like you just had to read them for some reason.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Like I read all the Twilight books. I feel nothing
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: for that franchise in particular, but I read them all
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: because I've same with Harry Potter. My mom tried to
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: get to We've discussed, tried to give me her crusty
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: ass copy of fifty Shades, and like, I'm not, I'm
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: not reading a book covered in my mom's come. I'm
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: simply not. But you know, And that was when I
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: found I had aged out of having to read books
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: just because I felt like I had to. And now
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: I know it sounds like and I haven't read a books.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Books are for losers, and uh, I think hacking. Now
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: you're just hacking and I'm I'm spending a lot of
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: time in the main frames. So there's there's other ways
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: to get data other than analog books. She's a code girl. Okay,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: So anyway, the sister of the Traveling Pants. Shall I
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: do the recap? Yes? So this movie centers around for
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: lifelong friends Bridget, Lena, Carmen, and Tibby, and they have
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: been friends like since before they were born because their
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: mothers all met in a aerobics class while they were
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: all freaking pregnant as hell, but from other days as well, right,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: so I guess they just like met as babies all
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: in the delivery room, question Mark, and then have been
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: friends ever since. I'm not really sure, but anyway, so
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  Speaker 1: they're now sixteen. They are best friends, and it is
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  Speaker 1: the summer, and this is the first summer that they're
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  Speaker 1: spending a part because Lena is going off to Greece
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  Speaker 1: to visit her grandparents, Bridget is going off to soccer
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  Speaker 1: camp in Mexico. Car Man is going to South Carolina
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: to visit her dad, who is from the West Wing.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: And it's distracting also the dad and get out. Oh yeah,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: he looks old from Billy Madison, that's right. Oh yes,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: he tries to shoot Billy. What a career? This man
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: is a peak peak two thousand five. Bradley Whitford shouts
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: at brad anyways, okay. And then so Tibby is um
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: staying in Bethesda, Maryland, where they're all from, and they
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: were they olive and she is working at is it Walman's,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: which is psically a Walmart and knockoff. These are their
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: summer plans and like the day before, they all part ways.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: They are at a thrift store and they find this
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  Speaker 1: pair of jeans that somehow mysteriously fits them all perfectly,
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  Speaker 1: even though they have different heights and weights and body shapes,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: and they're like, wow, these are a magical pair of pants.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: I would argue that there's exactly two body shapes between
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: the four of them, which I realized for the first
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: time watching this movie. I'm like, oh my god, there's
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: only two. Like they're like Alexis Bladell and Amber Tamlin
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: and Blake Lively have basically the same girls. Yeah, they're
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: all skinny white girls. And it's like, this is actually
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: not that amazing anyway, No, it's but Blake's tall. How
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: does Blake not have a camel too in these pants?
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Like what anyways? Sorry? So yeah, so they this pair
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: pants magically fits them all, and they decide they're like,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: oh my god, they're these magic pants. We should share
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: them throughout the summer, send them to each other in
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: our respective places, and it'll it'll help keep us together.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: And then we'll write letters and they like make this
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: whole manifesto and a gorgeous framing device. And I love it.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: It works, I love it. I love that. I love
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: the rule where you can't wash it. That's disgusting. You're
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: wearing full length denim in Mexico in August and you
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: are not allowed to watch it. Yeah, that only you
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: can take them off looking at you, sloody want That's
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: what they said. That was and then and then like
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: lad He's like who me? I was like, okay, are
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: you okay? It's like her thing. She's the Samantha with
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: the bunch. We've got a Miranda, We've got a Samantha
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: whoever the other characters are, We've got some of those two.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: And then I guess America ferras Our because she's like
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: the writer. I didn't even really think Miranda is is
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: um Tibby obviously, and then Lena would be Charlotte. That
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: totally does track. It tracks so hard wild anyway. So,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: so Lena's in Greece. She meets a cute boy who
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: is our greablys too old for her, named Costos and
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: a boat. I don't know if he was on a boat,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: but he definitely spends a lot of time on a boat.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Um So, she and him start to feel feelings for
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: each other, but their families are feuding. Um So, like
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: her grandma's trying to keep him apart. Meanwhile, in the
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: soccer camp in Mexico, Bridget is seeing this cute boy
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: who's a coach. But there's like a strict no dating
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: coaches policy. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, that
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: should be the rule. Did they ever say how old
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: this character is and she's seventeen sixteen? She says she's
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: she might be lying, Oh, because women be lying all
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: the time. Or maybe or I wouldn't be shocked if
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: the people making this movie we're like, oh, what are
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: the consent rules? And we've got to make her she
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: was born in September like they was it different in
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: the book? I feel like I remember it being different
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: in the book, But maybe I'm just thinking that since
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: that's like a more scandal story. But wouldn't that make
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: no sense that she would be older than them, because
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: weren't they all born born within a week of each other? Yeah,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: so why would she think everyone else? I think they
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: changed in the beginning. Yeah, so unclear or what that's
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: all about. But she might be sixteen anyway. So she
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: she starts crushing on this hot coach Eric. All bangs
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: that are no personality that's that sorry. Then Carmen is
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: arriving in South Carolina with her dad and then surprised
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: he has a new family. Surprise. It's Josh Lyman from
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: the West Wing. Yeah, and he's marrying a white bitch
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: fucking white kids. That's such a weird scene where America
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Ferrera is like, dad, bla blah blah. They're getting around
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: along great, and then he's just like, sorry for burying
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: the lead. Meet my white family. I was like, Oh,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: you can't just do Although it did remind me a
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: little bit, I wonder if it reminded you too of
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: the parent trap. Oh, and Dennis Quaid's like, by the way,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: here's Meredith, and I can't just do this to a kid.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: It's not there anyway. So she's dealing with that. And
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: then finally Tibby is making a documentary and she meets
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: this twelve year old girl named Bailey who takes an
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: interest in helping her with this documentary, even though they
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: kind of get off to a rough star because they're
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: both very stubborn. It's a cancer kid narrative. I find
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: it very frustrating. Yes, she it's revealed that she has
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: leukemia and is sick. The second she it's revealed that
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: she has leukemia. The Bailey character immediately only begin speaking
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: in like dove candy bar phrases like this saite. She
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: is an interesting, dynamic character. And then they have that
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: exchange where it's well, I mean, we'll get into it,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: but like, oh god, I hate, I hate, I hate,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: I hate narratives like this. They're so lazy. Yeah, not great.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: So yeah, with each of these stories, Bridget ends up
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: sleeping with this guy who she's been like very aggressively pursuing,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: this soccer coach, and then she sinks into a depression. Um,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: her mother committed suicide when you find out the beginning
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: in the movie. Yes, Um, so she's dealing with some
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: grief issues, possibly some mental health issues that I would
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: argue do not get explored very responsibly in this movie. Um.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Then Lena finally confronts her family about like, don't try
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: to keep me away from this boy. I love him
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: and he's helping me figure out that I can feel
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: love and have feelings. And also the conflict was over
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: like fish from twenty years ago, so they're all kind
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: of like, ah, yeah, I guess it's fine, right. Um.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: And then Carmen confronts her dad and it's like, she's like,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: I'm really angry at you because you left me when
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: I was ten and traded me in for a better
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: family or a different family that it seems like you
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: think is better. And she confronts him about it, and
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: then for reasons that I don't fully understand, goes to
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: his wedding. Well, the other three girls say that she
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: would be sad if she didn't go right um, and
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: then Tibby and Bailey are like getting close, sir, and
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: does Bailey die at these She does? Yeah, they don't explicitly.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: I don't think that they explicitly say it, but it's implied.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: And then you see Tivy and Brian mcbrian, who is
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: my crush from this movie, Brian mcbrian, the gamer with
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: a hat, very much your type. Yeah, my my little
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: hacking queen who hangs out at a gas station all day. Yeah.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: So she she does die in the books, she for
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: sure does. I don't think that they stayed it. I don't.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: I didn't think so that's why I wasn't sure. It's
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: up to you. Well, you see how she that child
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: is lit in the last scene, God's coming for her
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: and fast. It's so overblown where they have like purple
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: eyeshadow under her eyes and she's like lit by the moon,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, can we I'm done. I'm done
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: with this. I was enjoying this character, but you had
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: to kill it. So Amber Tamblin could learn a lesson, right,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: which is um, I guess that it's okay to be
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: don't even know what the listen is, but anyway, it's
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: okay to be dead. I hope that all of our
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: listeners at the back Tilt cost recognized that it's okay
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: to you. If you're dead, chill, you can still enjoy
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: our podcast. You can still rock it listen, you can
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: still sign up for our Patreon even if you're dead. Well,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: on that note, I think we should perhaps take a
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: quick break. What do you say, Let's take a break.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: All right, keep your pants on, We'll be right back.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Welcome back back. I had to go change my traveling pants,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: so I had to write a journal entry on on
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: my pants and then give it to Caitlin, because that's
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: how you be friends with girls. Yeah, that'sn't a female friendship.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: That's kind of one of the first things I wanted
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: to mention is that I like that this movie is
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: about sisterhood and about female friendship, especially for like this
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: age group, but we don't actually get to see them
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: be friends on screen that much right beginning in the end.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's the way the story is structured, So
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: would be weird if it wasn't like that. But it's
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: just like, Okay, well, if you're gonna make a movie
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: about like female friendship, why not have it be about
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: female friendship or we see them being friends, but it
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: crosses I don't know. I like how it. I mean,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: that's inherent to the structure of the story, so I'm
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: fine with that. I was pleasantly surprised I forgot that
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: they came together at the end in such a meaningful way, um,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: because it sort of seemed like the kind of thing
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: or it could have just been like and now their
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: home and they're going back to school. Yeah, I don't know.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Something I liked about it was that, like, this story
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: does a pretty good job of even when you're in
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: one of the girls like areas of like Lena will
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: still be talking about her friends and how much she
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: loves them while she's in Greece, and Tivy is talking
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: to her child, Hailed, whose parents we never see either
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: about her friend. Like everyone is like remembering their friends
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: and they're writing each other letters and it's like, yeah,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: that's true. It's nice. I like when they say when
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: America Ferrara's writer character is like, I forget how she qualities.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: She like qualifies all of them, but she's like Tibby
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: the rebel. Oh I wrote these down if you want
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: to hear. Um. Bridget is well first, she's like, it's
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: almost like the four of us form one complete person.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: And it's like, shouldn't you all be one complete person?
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Know you're sixteen? Um, So Bridget is wild and unstoppable.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Lena that's a fun way I'm saying. We think she's
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: slutty because that's what they keep saying. And anyways, uh,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Lena is shy and beautiful. Tibby is the rebel, and
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Carmen is the writer. Although do we see Karmen Wright
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: at all? I think that this it's supposed to be her, right,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: her telling of the story. I see, okay, much much
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: like Sex in the City, right, Yeah, I do enjoy
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: that it is a story about female friendship, because I
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: think in a lot of movies, especially about girls of
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: this age, it's something like mean girls or Heathers or
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: different other ones that we've done on the podcast, and
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: just other movies in general, where it's a lot of
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: like antagonistic feelings towards other girls, like girl and girl
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: hate and pettiness and things like that. So at the
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: very least I enjoy that this is a movie about
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: like pure female friendship. And in the beginning they say,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: like love your sisters and love yourself. I'm just like, oh,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: that's a nice message for you know, the tween girls
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: who were probably reading this and watching this. Yeah, and
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: they all are like very different and like accepting of that.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: I think, with the exception of occasionally how they treat
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Blake Lively, Um, they're all very accepting of each other,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: and they're encouraging each other to feel good about their
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: body isn't about themselves, And like there's a few scenes
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: where America Fre's character is like being down on her
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: body because she is the only person in this group
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: who has a different body shape, no matter how many
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: times the movie tells you otherwise. But that said, like
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: when when her character expresses insecurity which is realistic for
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: a sixteen year old girl. They are like her friends
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: are super supportive and like what you know, what are
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: you talking about? Blah blah, and they lift each other up.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: It's very nice. I think, by and large, it's a
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: very positive friendship that you don't see on screen a lot.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I would agree. However, if I may introduce some criticism
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: into the conversation, Caitlin's lighting the pants on fire. I
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: cannot be. She's literally lighting the pants on the fire.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: So the author of this book and brush Ares, is
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: that how you say your name? Because it looks like
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Anne bra Shares? So I wonder if she was like, Hey,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: my last name looks like bra Shares. What if I
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: write a book about girls who share a bra? Now
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: that's too weird. What if they share a pair of pants? Though,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: that's better, Okay, I'll write this book about sharing pants.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: That's the kind of idea you'd have if you drank
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: a tank of like boxed wine, and you're like, you know,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: would be crazy if teenagers just like shared pants and
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: then woke up and checked her notes out the next day.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: I was like, no, there's something there. There's something there. Yeah,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: there's three books worth something there. So that was just
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: a curiosity that I had. I don't know how this
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: story originated, but I like to think that that's what
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: it was. Can we go through the rules, because I
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: I if listeners, if you're listening, you may not remember
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: the rules of the pants. Some rules make sense, others
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: I think there's so stuff to unpack there. I feel
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: like they also skipped over a lot of them because
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: they're like, and there's one, two, three, four, and then
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: suddenly seven seven. Yeah, they do skip from four to seven.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: That they also break into a yoga studio, which is fun. Um. Also,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: their moms aren't friends. That's confusing. Um, okay, Well, the
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Sisterhood hereby in state the following rules together in the
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: use of the Traveling Pants. Number one, you must never
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: wash the pants. Hate this rule. That's rule number one.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Rule number one iant the first one that mentioned, though
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: this is the book canonically. Number two. You must never
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: double cuff the pants. It's tacky. There will never be
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: a time when this will not be taggy hardstands two.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: My pants are double cuffed, right, unbelievable, I look great.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Oh oh here's a fun one. Oh yeah, they do.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: They skip over I would argue maybe they skip over
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: the ones that are stupid. Three. You must never say
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: the word fat while wearing the pants, but I guess
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: the way it's spelled in the book is pH a
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: T why uh. You must also never think to yourself,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: am fat while wearing the pants. They do say that
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: in the movie you must never let a boy take
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: off the pants, although you may take them off yourself
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: in his presence. Do they say that in the movie.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: They don't. Okay, I like that. I'm okay with the
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: way it's written in the book. Yeah, that, but they
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: they use it as a way to call slut shame.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Bridget basically yeah, and she's like T. In the movie,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: it's Lena, who is our you know, Charlotte Prude character,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: and she's like, here's this rule, only you can take
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: off your own pants. And then she glares at Bridget
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: and then she's just like, what me, I'm bite crazy.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: So that seemed a little slut shamie. But and then
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: the rest of them are are kind of logistical. You
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: have to write letters, you have to write on the pants.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: You can't wear the pants with a tucked in shirt
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: and belt panting will love love your pals Love Yourself,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: and then they towards the end of the movie invoke
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: a final rule that no matter the schedule, the pants
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: have to go to the girl in need. If there's
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: like a pants emergency. Yes, there's a pants emergency because
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: America Ferrera has to accept her dad's new white family
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: right now. So get those pants on, girl, except your
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: white family, or the movie can't end well. That brings
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: me to one of the criticisms I have about this narrative,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: which is that three of the four stories are rooted
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: in one of the girl's relationship to a man. It's
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: um either Bridget chasing after the soccer coach that she
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: has a crush on, Lena and her budding relationship with Costos,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: or Carmen and her relationship with her father. Yeah, so,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, I get it. That is an easy way
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: to go for a story about teen girls. I think
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: that that's a really good point though, where like, I
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: do feel that all four of these characters are fully
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: realized character for the most part, but the fact that
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: the core like we see them have this really positive
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: relationship and then they're separated and it's mostly like the
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: conflict is with a man with the exception of Tibby,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: and I have like a separate issue with her narrative.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Should we just take it like a gal By gal?
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Let's do it? Oh before we start, though, like I
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: have to ask who's your faves, ladies, who's your fame? Well,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: I would say I identify most closely with Tibby. I'm
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: a Tibby myself. Yeah, you know, I'm just like a rebel,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: and I, like say asked sometimes like swear. I don't
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: like babies, I don't like anyone. I wonder did everyone
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: want to be Tippy? Because I also wanted to be Timmy,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: And there was a lot of friction within my group
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: of who would be Tibby because I think we all
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: wanted to be cool. She's the cool one. She has
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: like the best hair. Yeah, I wanted to be Tippy,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: But in reality, I don't know who I am. I
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: don't I don't know. Well, I also was bridget um.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: I was a soccer player at the time and I'm
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: still a soccer player, huge bragg um. So I was like, there,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: you know, there's parts of all of them that I enjoyed.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: I also, I would say my favorite character is actually
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: probably Carmen she's my faith. But I would say for
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: me personally, I feel like I'm mostly a Timby now
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: it's Timby a Slytherin. And also which Ninja Turtle is she?
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: So there's like a lot of we can really get
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: into it. Also, and how does this fit into the
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: universe of book Club? Yes, very good question. The other thing,
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: I well, we figured out who we are in book Club,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: and that's a big relief. I was Diane, Uh, Caitlyn,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: who are you? I don't remember. I forget. We were
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: so drunk at that movie. Um, I forget, but I was.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: I was. I fucked the pilot, That's all I know.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: I really loved that. It was not good. It was
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: very bad anyway. Okay, so who should we start with.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Let's start with the most borning one. Let's start with Lena. Okay,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: I mean she's the most boring one. Her storyline is
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: largely her relationship with Costos and her relationship with her grandparents,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: specifically her grandmother. So her grandmother finds out that she's
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: been seeing this boy. Their families have been feuding for
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: decades in this weird like west Side story like something
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: about fish a long time ago. And then Costos is
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: like all I know is that I'm sureless and you're pretty,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: and so who cares about fish? And everyone's like yes.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: There's a few times where that character kind of like
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: squeezes me out because he does keep showing up even
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: after she's like, no, leave me alone kind of and
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: he does. I don't know. I mean she rejects him
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: twice first when they meet, and okay, so he has
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: to save her. Number one they meet because she falls
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: into the water because she's like staring at him because
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: she's like, oh he cute. She like Hillary duffs directly
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: into a body of water, right, and then the jeans
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: that are supposed to be so magical get caught on
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: this like hook and she's like trapped underwater. So he
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: has to come and save her, and then she's like,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: oh my god, thank you for saving my life. She's
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: like sitting on his boat and then he's like should
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: we go dancing later? And she's like no, I have
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: to go, and then she runs away and he's like
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: but what and she's like no. He also comes in
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: hot by being like you know, I live on this boat.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: It's like this is not a brag. You should not
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: be telling her I don't think he lives on the boat.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think so I was like, surest,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: I thought he was a boat person. This is not
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: the movie Adrift, but speaking of boats, the most important
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: thing about this storyline is that, much like Titanic, Lena
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: draws Costas like one of her Greek boys. She does
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: and she and she even does the same thing where
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: she's like stop, stays still and he's like no, and
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: she's like he I like him, He's just an object.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: They're not cool. There is one point where Lena is
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: like having her her arc is like almost interesting at
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: certain points where she like is like I feel so
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: guilty because my friends have actual problems. I don't actually
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: have a problem, but I still feel so like closed
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: off and sad, which is like a very teenagery thing.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: I was like, okay, cool, I'm on board for this.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Where's this going? But then don't have those feelings right now?
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: It's like a marvel day. But but then it's like
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: she gets so stressed out that she starts taking off
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: her clothes and it's to jump into that and then
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: cost Us, why is he right there? Why is he
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: behind the stairs? Because he's following her all the time,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: he's behind the stairs. And then he's like, I'll also
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: launch myself into the waves and then they and then
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: they hook up. They kiss um. But yeah, this is
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: after several times of her So after she finds out
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: that their families are feuding, she goes to return his shirt,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: but she's like, no, I can't. We can't talk in
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: He's like, but it's a beautiful day, and she's like, no,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: get away from me. So she rejects him a number
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: of times, but it but then she she does pursue
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: him because she goes to his fish market and then
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: she draws him like one of her Greek boys. And then,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: much like in Titanic where Billy Zane finds the drawing,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: later on her Lena's grandmother finds the drawing and she's
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: like what is this all about? And she's like, I
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: love him. This isn't nothing like a shirtless picture of
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: It's weird to me that they do. So it's like
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: a weird destination. He move it. Ultimately, it's like this
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: could this storyline could have been way more about like
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Lena getting to know her family and Lena getting to
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: know her culture, a little bit would have been interesting,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: and it seems like that's the direction it's going to
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: go to since they go through the trouble if Flying
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: alexis plit out to Greece. But then it's sort of
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: like everything else that happens could have arguably happened almost anywhere. Yeah,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: so it's weird. Well, the worst part about this storyline
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: to me is that he gets her to realize because
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: this is what she says, that she can feel, she
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: can feel feelings and she can let love in, which,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: like I suppose it would take a potential romantic partner
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: to help you realize that, But I don't know, that's
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: just become a trope where it's like close off girl
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: who doesn't know how to do emotions, a boy comes
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: around and teaches her how to do it. But and
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: also it doesn't make sense for like your first teen relationship.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: That's more like you've been burned before, so you are
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: closed off and the preserving way. And I think this
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: is maybe one of perhaps the first time I've ever
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: said this in the like eighties something episodes we've done.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: But there are a few underwritten male characters in this
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: story that make it like that never happens like the
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Costos character, I don't quite know where he's coming from.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: And then the same goes for Eric the soccer coach,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: where it's like you don't really know that much about them.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: You're like, I don't necessarily understand what he's handsome, right,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: And and for Bridget, she never goes beyond. She's not
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: like I love him. She just has like a very
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: physical attraction to him. But only young people in town, right,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: just the two of them in Greece, they're young people
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: in right. I think I think that her realizing that
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: she loved him was a bit of a jump. And
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: this is something we see in a lot of movies
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: where two characters fall in love, but we don't necessarily
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: understand why they love each other or what is compatible
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: about them and their personalities, because at least one of
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: them is super underdeveloped. Usually it's the woman who's super
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: underdeveloped and we don't understand why the man loves her.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: But in this case, I would argue that it's it
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: is the Custos. Yeah. One last thing about um Lena's character.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: To me, the worst part of this storyline is that
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: she has this big reconciliation where she confronts her family
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: for being like, don't tell me who I can and
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: can't love, Like I'm going to make my own choices
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: and I can feel my own feelings. Nothing. But she
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: directs this to her grandfather, who has hardly said a
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: word in the entire movie and who she's had almost
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: no interactions. He spit at custas who cares she's had
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: almost all of her interactions with her grandmother, Like all
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: of her conversations with her family has have basically been
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: between Lena and her grandmother. So it doesn't make any
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: sense to me why she addresses It's almost like she's
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: seeking a man like her grandfather's a man's approval, rather
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: than because she's had so many of these conversations with
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: her grandma up till now, why wouldn't she then try
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: to reconcile the situation with her instead of her grandpa,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: who she has barely spoken to. That's a good point.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: I hadn't that. Yeah, that really that bugged me a lot,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: And I was like, why is she talking to him?
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: We've hardly seen him on screen? Why wouldn't she direct
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: this towards her grandmother? So it just it felt like
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: another excuse to like, let's have some women not interacting,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: but they interact so much that did it is weird
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: that they're not the one to resolve that. Yeah, I
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: don't know, perhaps a cultural thing, but it's not explained.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Should be talking about Karmen. Let's talk about Karmen. Karmen rules.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: I love Karmen. Yes. Well, her whole thing, as we said,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: is that she's spending the summer with her dad. She
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: says very early into their hang that she hasn't spent
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: more than four days with him consecutively since she was
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: ten to she really excited to like hang out with
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: him to know better over the summer, nasic surprise, I
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: have a new family, um getting married to this lady.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Here are my two white teenagers that I have now.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: It's also alluded to that he used to be like
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: super like punk rug, like I can't be tied down,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: I'll never live in a house. But it's implied that
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: he's like sold out all of like who he used
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: to be, right, he says grace now. But they couldn't
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: even get him to go to church before and stuff
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: like that. Right, And it's like and that is like
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: implied as being important because her mom is religious, So
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: I I thought this was like an interesting storyline that
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: I have like a few little problems with, But I
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: don't know. I like that Carmen is as like it
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: felt kind of realistic to me that of the stuff
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: she put up with and then the points where she
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I'm not going to deal with this,
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Like she's trying to be polite, she's trying to be
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: more respectful towards her dad's new life than he's ever
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: been towards her life, and which I think is a
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: very female right. But then also like hits the line
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: when at that dress fitting scene. Yes, I really like
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: I really like that scene. I like that she confronts
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: all the people who are basically acting as though she
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: is not there, that she's not a real person, or
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: that she's the diavalogue in that scene is a bit much.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: No one would ever talk that way at a dress shop,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Like I hope we have enough fabric like comed Out,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: you know, I understand what they're what they're trying to say, right,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: And she is, aside from her mom, the only she like,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Carmen is the one woman of color in the movie.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: And Maria the housekeeper, which I'll get into that in
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: a second, but um, yeah, that went kind of ultimately unexplored. Yeah,
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: like that scene, Okay, let's just talk about that scene.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: So there's a moment where Lydia who who is Carmen's
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: dad's new wife or the lady that he's going to marry,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: and she's like get out of bed. Our housekeeper has
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: to wash the sheets. But like she doesn't speak any English,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: so like I don't really know we even watched she
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: ones and Carmen, who we've seen speaking Spanish. I just
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: thought there was going to be a scene between her
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: and Maria where like they speak in Spanish or like
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: she I wonder some ended up being like cut out
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: of the movie or something, because it just seems like
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: that's such a specific scene to set up that is
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: never resolved. It's like that helps us understand like even
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: more so, like Okay, Karmen is getting really fed up.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: She like clearly her dad's new family just like does
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: not understand not white people and not wealthy people, and
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: like it advances her character in that way. But it's like, yeah,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: why would you not have a scene with I forget
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: if that happens in the book. I feel like it
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: would have to write Marian never like speaks. Or maybe
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: it's so the Carmen can see that this white family
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: who has a woman of color as like the help.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe it's to establish that and for
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Karmen to say, like, oh, here's how this family values
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: people of color and women of color like they're your
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: help basically, right, and that fits into the narrative of
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Carmen saying literally a couple different times that she feels
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: like she's being erased by her dad and by his
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: family and that she's not being acknowledged or seen at all.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: But I do agree, like I think that that scene.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that that scene happens, but I wish that
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: there was a more concrete like it just seems like
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: there was more there that they didn't that for whatever reason,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: we don't see in the movie. Right Again, I feel
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: like it's something does happen in the book, but I
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: don't specifically, I don't remember at all. But yeah, Karmen,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Carmen and her um have a couple of different scenes together.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: We don't really see the other girls interact with their
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: parents that deep end. Uh. The scenes between Carmen and
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: her mom are mostly very nice. I think so too.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: And I really like Carmen confronting her dad at the end,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: Like that's a hugely emotional beat in the movie. And
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: I like that she stands up for herself. She questions
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: what her dad has been doing this whole time, and
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: like why he's made the choices that she has. So
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: I like that she has the agency to confront him
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: about that. What I don't like is that Mike can
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: say is something I like really quick. There's this shot
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: of Bradley Whitford whipping his head around at his own
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: wedding to make eye contact with his daughter. It is
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: such an unnecessary shot, but you've got to see it.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Whitford's hair is flying, he's in a talx, He's about
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: to deliver a monologue, and it's like this guy has
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: done step in Wolf. You know, Okay, sorry guy. So
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: that wedding. First of all, Carmen says over and over
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: again that she does not want to go to this wedding,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: and it makes sense because she's still very angry at
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: her dad and he has not really done anything apologize, yeah,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: to try to reconcile in any meaningful way. But whenever
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: the four girls regroup at the end of the summer.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: They're like, we're going to take you to your dad's
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: wedding and she's like, I don't want to go to that,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: and they're like, no, but you're gonna you want to go.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: You have to. So I it really annoyed me. And
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: maybe this is just some personal baggage that I'm bringing
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: to the table, but like bringing it that her friends
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: were like, hey, you know how, you're really really mad
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: at your dad. Uh, we're gonna make you go see
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: him anyway. And in the fact that she keeps protesting,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: and even when they're in the car, she's like, can
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: we turn around, like I don't want to go to
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: this when they're like the rest stop, Like when she's
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: putting the jeans on, she's like, can we not do this?
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: I don't want to go. And the fact that she
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: keeps expressing this is not something I want, This is
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: not really something I'm ready for. I'm still angry at
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: my dad, and they're just like, no, no, go do
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: it because you have he's your daddy. You have to
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: love your dad. And the fact that she just kept
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: protesting and they kind of forced her into it really
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: upset me. And it also means that this movie ends
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: in a wedding, and it makes no fucking sense of
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: a movie like this to end in a wedding. I
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: feel like I don't remember how the book ends, and
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: maybe it ends in a wedding also, but either way,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: I feel like whoever was responsible for this, they're like,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: we have a girl movie. There's a movie for girls.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: It's a movie by girls. Some but they're not old
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: enough to get married, but but we can still. We
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: have to. A movie like this has to end in
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: a wedding. Well, they need a big finish. They can't
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: just be like, okay, we're all home again, let's go
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: to school. Now there's kind of a wedding. So that's
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: a good version of this movie that ends with them
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: back at the yoga studio. Yeah, I would have liked
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: that way better. And if you need some big event,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe like Bridget has a big soccer game,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: or like, I don't know, something else. But like the
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: fact that this movie ends in a wedding when it
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: doesn't really make any sense and is very unnecessary, especially
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: because the person whose wedding it is has wronged Carmen
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: for her pretty much entire life and still hasn't really
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: apologized for it or acknowledged that he has done anything wrong.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: The popular male fallacy just apologize one time. Any good
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: right years of damage can be undone by just being
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: like sorry. Maybe. So that really bothered me about this
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: storyline where Carmen like she's strong enough to stand up
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: to like the people in the dress shop. She is
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: challenging her dad in different ways in the family by
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: like just speaking Spanish and they're like, oh god, Spanish.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: We're like, we don't speak that in this household. And
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: at the end when she has the phone call with
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: her dad where she very clearly outlines all the feelings
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: that she has why she's angry with him, and it's
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: all very valid, and then she's still is like, yeah, okay,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: final go to this wedding and he just he'll just
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: hug me and say I'm sorry and then it's fine.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: I just I feel like that really sold her out.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: I feel like you, I think that, yeah, I've been
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: cool if she didn't go, if she was like, I
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: don't want to go. I'm still really angry at my
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: dad and I'm not ready for this. More supportive friends
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: would have been like, Okay, we except that you're not
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: ready and we totally understand you, and let's just all
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: go to a movie instead. How epic would that be?
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: Like a big scene where they're like super close to
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: the wedding, like they've driven all the way, and then
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: she's like, you know what, I don't think I can
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: skirt there, like okay, and then they do something else
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: where they were like, oh, we shouldn't have made you
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: go here. Okay, well let's go see the movie. And
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: then they go and they see Sisterhood of the Traveling
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Pants and that the movie just starts over I love it.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Or they see an adaptation of the video game that
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Brian McBrien was playing, The Dragon Slayer, which would have
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: been a great movie because it would have been about
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: a guy who has to save a woman from a
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: dragon that a huge feminist masterpiece. Perfect be cool more
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: if they were just like talking about, like, well, what
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: movie should we see? And then like the dialogue sort
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: of like starts, the volume starts to go down, and
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: then it's a crane shot and so then the cameras
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: like zooming away in and then the music comes in.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Feeling right on your skin Yeah, of course great ending
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: with that, that would have been a jarring and beautiful
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: moment in cinema. Well, let's take a quick little breaky break,
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: and then we'll come back and dish on more the
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: gals and we're back. Hi. We should we talk about next? Well,
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: let's get into Tibby's story a little bit. She's home
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: for this summer. She's the art girl. Sure, her hair
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: is not the color that is started as she got
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: a camera. There are parts of her that remind me
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: of Mark from Rent in ways that I don't like
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: of just like I'm just going to make a movie.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Quality doesn't matter to me, and but I think Tibby
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: does a better job. It just seems like Tibby has
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: like basically I don't know how much of it is
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: by choice and how much of it is out of necessity.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: It's like sort of not clear, but she has taken
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: on more responsibility than the other girls, and that she's
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: like she doesn't go anywhere. She has a job, she's
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: taking care of her little sister, and she also ends
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: up sort of taking care of this younger girl, Bailey,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: who I just this is a weird like a weird
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: permutation of something that we see all the time, which
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: is like a character with a terminal illness sort of
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: being exploited to have a main character, a main able bodied,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: healthy character grow as a person like Bailey dies so
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: that narratively, Amber Tamblin can be like I understand the
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: world better like and it's so lame. The normal setup
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: for this I hate even more, which is like a
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: walk to remember fault in our stars, like oh my
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: girlfriend got cancer and died, so I respect women now
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: like that love that story, has seen that one cried
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: at that one. Um. This is like a different version
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: of it. And it's even like it's it's listed on
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: TV trips, which is like a website we pull from
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: a lot, but it's called Little as Cancer Patient and
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: it is I mean, it shows up in teel a
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: lot too of just like hospital shows a lot a
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: sick kid who imparts wisdom so the main character can grow.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: And it sucks because I think at the beginning, Bailey
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: and Tibby have this dynamic that's really cool, and and
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: then it's revealed that she has leukemia. She didn't want
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: to tell Tibby because she thought Tiby would treat her
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: differently she's correct, Tippy does begin to treat her differently,
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: but then Bailey starts to actually differently exactly, so it
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: ends up sort of being like, well, of course Tippy's
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: treating you differently. You're suddenly just speaking in like euphemisms,
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: and where she was like this really interesting dynamic, like
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: little combative kid character a better documentarian than Tippy. Right
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, once we find out she has leukemia.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: There's that nice scene where Tibby is honest and it's like,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I'll treat you differently. I don't know,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: which is like a tricky spot to be in, especially
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: when you're sixteen. But then Bailey does a one eighty
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: and and everything that comes out of her mouth this
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: is like, look at the start that I don't know
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: if I'm going to get like every scene she's in,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm going to get to see
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: one of these again. You're just like, can you stop?
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: Like you said just I think the movie or the
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: book or both probably sell that character out in a
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: kind of cheesy, dumb way that ends up like I
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: don't know, it just like makes it less impactful. And
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: then also that Bailey's death, it's implied like brings Tibby
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: and Brian Mcbrian the gas station chowed closer, like it's like, oh,
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: so Bailey died so that Amber Tamlin could chill out
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: a little bit and maybe date that loser at the
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: gas station. It's like they're I don't know, just a cheesy,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: badly written storyline for for me, yeah, I do appreciate
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: that was the one that didn't tie one of the
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: girls to a man, but it still isn't handled well
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: because in a different yeah, okay, and then we've got
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: be We've got Blake Lively, Brigitte Um and her deal
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: is she goes to stop her camp in Mexico. She's
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: the sporting spice of the group. Um, she's a thoughtic,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: she's gooding soccer, she's boy crazy, she lost a parent.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: Like they're all they're all pretty well written out, even
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: when it's like the notes they're hitting are pretty like, okay,
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: this tend stab and in every teen story, like one
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: character doesn't have a mom, when character is a little
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: boy crazy, one character play a sport. It's still I
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: don't know it it comes together. I think in at
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: least an interesting way, but her character is weird the
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: way they handle her stories kind of all over the
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: place where we should just I mean, we can only
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: address this to an extent, but like it's probably not
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: a dent legal. What is happening between her and this
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: soccer coach. It's in Mexico. Baby, she's but they say
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: she's sixteen, he's twenty one. He's also her counselor. It
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: is at very least a fireball offense. If not, I
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: don't know what the laws in two thousand five in
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: this location were, but even so, it's like it's and
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: this happens in like I think like trashy or teen
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: fair than this. I'm thinking pretty little liars because p
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: l L Episode one, she is like I'm like six,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna funk my teacher, and then and then we're
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: rooting for them for years. Like it's not that level,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: but it is like the story excuses him because it's
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: like she's my my feeling and if you feel feel differently,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: let me know. But like my feeling is like the
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: story is telling us like, well, she's coming on so strong,
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: like he couldn't resist. Where it's like he's a grown
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: person and he should resist at least in order to
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: keep his job, but whatever. I think that's definitely one
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: of the problems of this storyline. Another one is just
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: how the movie in narrative in general handles sex, which
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: is like, so, let's try to break this down. So
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking about this in real time. You know, she's
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: established as like the boy crazy one. She spots this
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: guy Eric, and she's like him, he's going to be
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: so she goes after him pretty aggressively, where she's finding
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: random excuses to talk to him. She follows him to
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: a cantina and makes him dance with her. There's one
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: point in voiceover she's like, the rules don't apply to
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: when a girl likes the boy. I was like, oh,
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: this is not a good president. She says something like
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: I'm obsessed and obsessed girls can't control themselves or something
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: like that, and it's like Blake. Also the fact that Blake,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: like most of the actresses in this movie are older,
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: like four or five years older than the character they're playing,
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: but Blake Lively is actually sixteen seventeen at the time
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: of filming this, which makes me feel even more uncomfortable
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: with it. But whatever, Okay, continue so she pursues him,
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: and he is looked into some degree just because he
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: knows that this shouldn't be happening because he's one of
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: the coaches and the counselors and she's you know, at
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: the camp and that dynamic is you know, he feels
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: that it's not okay for them to engage in any
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: sort of relationship. But he eventually succumbs, and then it's
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: implied that she loses her virginity to him. Um, because
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: then she writes a letter to I think it's t
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: Lena who says, like, how is something that's supposed to
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: make you feel so complete? It's leaving me feeling so empty?
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: And one I don't like that they don't explicitly say
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: that she has sex, because it's like, okay, if you're
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: gonna have a character have sex, then talk about like
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: say it. I would guess this is a ratings issue. Um,
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: But the same thing happens in the book where it's
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: like very okay, So it it isn't explicitly stated in
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: the book, right, And I remember being really angry at
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: the book when I was reading it, being like, if
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: your characters are old enough to have sex and talk
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: about like then explicitly say it and then have a
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: responsible discussion about it. But the aftermath of that is
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: that she feels she kind of sinks into a depression
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: and she's left with these feelings of emptiness. And it
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: could be because she's still experiencing the grief of her
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: mother committing suicide and how she maybe pursued this guy
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: as a way to like deal with those feelings of grief. Um,
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: and then when that didn't help or fix anything in
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: terms of the grief she was feeling, then she feels empty.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: I see. But I think there's like little parts that
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't like. But for the most part,
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: although I do agree that if they're going to do
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: the storyline, you have to say that they had sex
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: and their wise, it's just like, what what what is
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: this movie rated? It's p G, I believe, and I
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: think that that probably and if this movie isn't p G,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: then like there's no point anything releasing it, you know,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: because it's Yeah, but I don't know the way that
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: it resolved, because I felt like that storyline was resolved
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: mostly to my satisfaction. Let's we'll get to how they
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: treat mental illness and suicide. That's almost an entirely separate
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: issue because that is not done well. But in terms
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: of how they handle her rigidity, I do. I mean,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: I feel like that is like a fairly common thing
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: for like a teenage girl who loses her virginity to
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: be like, oh, this is built up in my head
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: partially because of like media consumption, yea, how people present
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: that to you so that when it does happen and
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, I did it, and now this this
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: and this is supposed to happen, and I'm supposed to
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: feel this way that I've seen movies, and and then
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: when that doesn't happen, like that is a confusing feeling totally,
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: And I think her feelings are valid or like the
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: aftermath of that, and you know, this experience of sex
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: like not meeting her expectations or you know, maybe feeling
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: even some shame or whatever touched that. I think that's
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: very normal for you know, like a teen girl to feel.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: And then we see the way that comes around and
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: again it's like the character that she loses her virginity
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: two is so underwritten and we literally know nothing about
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: him other than he is her soccer coach and shouldn't
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: be having sex with her. He loves the endorphins that
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: come with soccer. The endorphins ruled like Eric, Wow, Eric
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: really really a keeper this Eric. But Eric comes back
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: at the end too, I guess apologize or he sort
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: of comes back to make sure she's okay, was my interpretation,
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: and like do that thing that sometimes men will do
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: of like, Hey, I don't know if I have anything
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: to apologize for, but if I do, I'm sorry, and
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: you're just like okay, and if I don't, And if
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: I don't, then I guess I'll just go home. Great, really,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: sincere seems like you've really thought this way the fuck out.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: But you know, he comes back to check in with her,
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: and I thought I liked how she she dealt with
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: it where she and again we'll get to the conversation
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: that they actually have. But she had talked about it
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: with her close friends, she had sought outside perspective, she'd
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: asked for help. She thought about it and sort of
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: come to the conclusion that like, yeah, like losing her
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: dudy and having sex with someone is not going to
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: fix problems. And she sort of by the end, from
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: what I could tell, had recognized and made peace with that.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: I like that the story doesn't force stuff the way
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: it does with Lena's character of like maybe there's like
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: a future for us. That's not implied at all. She's
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: just like, Nope, have a nice year at school. Like
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: there's no implication that she I guess right, Like there was,
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: just like the implication with her that character for me
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: was like, Okay, there's a way that like you can
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: have sex as a woman and not be like madly
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: in love with the person you're having sex with. That's
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: something that's not presented very often in movies, and especially
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: not with like young women. So I thought that, I
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: don't know, I liked how that storyline resolved, right. I
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: think what bothers me about the way that like sex
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: is handled in this movie is that because that's pretty
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: much the only representation we see of a woman having
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: a sexual experience with someone, and then the aftermath we
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: see of that is like, oh, well, then you feel
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: empty and you'd feel depressed and then and I think
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: we as the audience can glean that it's because she
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: hasn't properly dealt with her mom's suicide. But I don't
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: know if the movie connects those two things, where like
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: she has sex because she's trying to fill a void,
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: and the emptiness she feels is actually because of her
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: mom's suicide and not necessarily because of the sex she had.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: I think that because there's a lot of like stuff
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: conflated there, and this is the only the representation we
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: see on screen of a woman having a sexual experience.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: I'm worried that like young girls will see this and
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: be like, oh well, no, like losing your virginity is
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: a bad thing that makes you feel really bad and
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: comes with a lot of shame, and like, I don't know,
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: maybe she doesn't really have shame by the end. That's true.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: That's why I felt okay about it, was like you
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: see her because again that seems that's another to my experience,
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: Like a realistic part of that experience is like feeling
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: shitty about it and like questioning it and like what
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: do I do? And at least I don't know. She
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: seems comfortable with herself and with her decision by the
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: end of the movie, and in that way, I feel
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: okay about it. The great girl did she have sex? No,
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: she just what it needed it Like one girl that
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: was like it was the best ever and then also
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: had like weird one so that kids can see like
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: the two. Yeah, there's a spectr. But then also that
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: would have been a problem of sexual experience. That would
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: have been problematic too, because Coastas was older than her.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: He was also like a college student. She was sixteen,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: not Brian mcbrian age appropriate shorty. No, I have no
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: idea how old he was. Probably he was probably the
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: oldest sting. He was probably like, oh, yeah, I have
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: a couple of kids I should be feeding. Um. Well,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: I liked what was going on with the soccer girl
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: because she does say like I just thought if I
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: would act happy that, but you know, I think she's
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: encoded rated pig language, saying I was trying to be
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: like slutty and flirty and fun and brave and no
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: shame that I was forcing that because I thought it
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: made it made her numb or something or like whatever.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: My mom died, that's fine, right, like forcing yourself through
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: the grief process instead of dealing with the emotions, which
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: it seems like, yeah, by the end, it's like that
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: is definitely not resolved. But it seems like she at
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: least understands that that's like work she has to do.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: I don't like the mental illness and suicide thing is
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: an there's a very very dated take where Bridget's mother
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: committed suicide. The way it's spoken about in the scene,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: the very expository scene at her funeral is very shamy
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: and weird, where it's just like we'll never know why
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: she did this terrible thing. It's like, okay, we're feeling
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: Priest turned it down to a six. But but anyways,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: like Bridget is like worried that she's going to become
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: like depressive like her mother and that she will be
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: susceptible to the same feelings. I think that was a
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: cool thing to express as like a concern, but the
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: way her friends respond to it is very strange. Of like,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: I think Carmen's character is like, you're stronger than your mom,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: and I was, yeah, she says Karmen says, you have
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: a strengthen you that your mother never had, which is
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: implying like, oh, because your mother suffered from mental illness,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: she was she was strong, and she just didn't want
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: to live enough to fight for her life. And it's like, well,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: that's just not at all what mental illness. Mean, yeah,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: and just a mean thing to say to friend. I mean,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: she didn't really deserve to live because she wasn't strong
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: enough when you think about it, right, it's just and
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: it's like it's presented in this way that it's like
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: they're trying to help, but it's not the right message
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: to be sending, which is realistic. Yeah, but in this
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: this example, I actually like they have to deal with
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: it right. They have to deal with it right so
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: that teenage girls seeing the movie have a template of
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: how to deal with a situation like this in a
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: way that is not bad because the way Bridget's character responds,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: it's like okay, and then you're just like no, now
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: she thinks that her mom was. Like this whole movie
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: deals with death in a very strange way, whether it's
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: Bailey's death or Bridget's mom's death, it's all a little
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: bit off the right to deal with it. But yeah,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: there's I mean, between that and the way the movie
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: deals with sex and the way the movie fails to
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: deal with race, I do think that it does a
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: decent job of dealing with like body image, Like that's
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: the one thing that it touches on and sort of
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: gets right, but yeah, there's a lot of things that
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: it mishandles. Yeah, it is very dated done okay for
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: the time that like America Ferarra her character acknowledged struggles
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: of being a Latina um Whereas I feel like a
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: lot of movies are just like quote unquote color blind,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: Like the cast is different colors, but they're all just like, yeah,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: I mean I live in a world where we don't
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: see race. Kind of like going back to what you
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: were saying earlier, Caitlin, of like if we pit this
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: movie against other like groups of teenage girls movies, I
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: think this movie does very well. Where Like if we're
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: pitting it against the craft, which we bring up a
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: lot of the one woman of color in that movie
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: is like, consider, we just don't really so at all,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: Like they're just like we don't know how to write
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: a character that's not white, so we're just not going
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: to write at least, you know, for this movie. Shortcomings, Yeah,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: the fact that Karmen is vocal and like that's explored
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: and we can talk about this and it's fine. I
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: don't love that. The end of her narrative is like
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: and now I love my dad's white family. It's like,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: that is stupid. Yeah, it's like it's cool to hate
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: your dad. It seems likely actually really shafted you. I
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: feel like, yeah. Well, so the movie was based on
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: a novel written by brausch Airs brasch Airs from a
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: White Woman screenplay written by Elizabeth Chandler and Delia Efron,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: which is Nora Fron's sister m to White Women, directed
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: by can whatever you can look it up, who is
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: a white dude. So I think that it could have
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: handled a discussion about race a little more responsibly than
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: it did, But because a lot of the major players
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: of this movie are white people, doesn't go as far
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: as it could have. Yeah, so shall we discuss whether
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: not the movie passes the Bechdel test a lot of
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: different times, a lot of different female characters who all
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: talk to each other. Sometimes they do talk about men,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: either like Carmen's dad or Eric the soccer coach, or
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: Costa's but largely they are talking about pants, number one, um, documentary, filmmaking, soccer,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff, and a number of like character combos.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: It passes with it is pretty impressive. Carmen and her
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: mom to be and Bailey Um yeah, all kinds of combos.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: Hot combos passes the Mary Hula hand test, which is
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: where a movie has has to have several scenes where
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: women talk about pants with each other. Well, we do
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: come up on this a lot where often we find
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: that if a movie does pass the Becto test, the
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: women are either talking about clothing or food. This happens
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: a lot. That is true. Else you're gonna talk about
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: there's nothing else, Jamie. Um, I love your shirt and
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: your and I love the way you make pasta. Man,
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: it's too bad because all my clothes look bad and
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: I can't cook. So I just mostly don't speak. I
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: have no option. There's nothing else for me to talk about.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: I don't say keep my damn mouses. Sometimes they talk
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: about cancer. They also talk about illness, akemia. Yeah, they
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: talk about the last YEA. Let's rate it on our
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: nipple scale, where we rate the movie based on its
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: portrayal of women on a scale of zero to five
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: nipples five being the best. I'm going to give it
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: three and a half because this movie's existence in the
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: world I think is net positive um for the audience.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: It's reaching. It's really nice to see a movie about
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: girls of this age who are in a friendship with
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: each other and who don't turn on each other. They
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: are all extremely supportive and very different and very different
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: and fairly well written and well developed. Although we do
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: see some sort of tropy characters, and that we were
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: able to pretty much closely align them with all of
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: the Sex and the City characters, and you know, any
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: other group of foursome we could figure out, you know,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: which one is which Ninja turtle or whatever. So but
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: even so, they are distinguishable enough that, um, we can
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: easily identify them and their characters, which says a lot
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: for um, a female character in a movie, because usually
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: they're hard to describe because they're so underwritten that you
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: just simply can't do that. Um. So that's nice, and
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: it's a depiction of female friendship, which is really positive
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: and supportive. I don't especially care for the fact that
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: three of the four storylines do center around one of
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: the girls relationship to a man, because I think, you know,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: why not one of the girls have a relationship like
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: an issue with her mother or another female family member.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: Why not another friendship with another woman something like that,
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: Like the fact that half of them are romantic and
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: then one of the other ones is about a difficult
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: relationship with their father. I just like there were opportunities
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: to have other types of stories and or relationship that
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: just did not actually get explored in this movie. Two boyfriends,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: one daddy and a cancer patient. Maybe yes and not great.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: And as we discussed it, mishandles several different things. It
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: could be more sex positive, it could handle a discussion
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: of race more responsibly. You could do the same thing
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: for mental illness. But overall, I think that for the time,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: for the audience, this movie is reaching. I think it's
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: generally pretty well done and positive. So three and a
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: half nipples And in the interest of not giving any
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: nipples away to teenage girls because that feels wrong, UM,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: give it to them today today, okay America, for Era
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: today in two thousand and eighteen. I give all three
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: and a half of my nipples to her. Okay, she
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: is fairs. I love when we give away nipples like
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: spare tires. Um I'm gonna I'm good with the three
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: and a half as well. Yeah, there's there's definitely a
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: few topics this movie tackles in a dated way. Um.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: I do wish that they would just outright say that
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: sex happened. It was confusing that they didn't, but that, Yeah,
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: I think that this is, especially for this time, pretty
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: much as good as it gets in terms of in
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: movie is. I think there were some TV shows that
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: did it well, and some of the TV shows, uh,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: this cast are like in that deal with it very well.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: Not Gossip Girl though that one. But yeah, I like
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: this movie a lot. I don't like cancer kid tropes,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: I don't like mishandling of depression, but I do like
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: most of what happens in this movie. I think it's good.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: I got three and a half nipples I'm gonna give oh. Also,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: I wanted to say that the director male director of
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: this movie also directed a really bad, really real stinky.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: He also directed He's Just Got That Into You, which
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: is we should do that movie on the podcast because
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: I have a lot to say. Director ken Kuopis exists
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: on a spectrum of good to bad. Anyways, also on
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: this like it was a clickbait that made me well
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: up last night. They're all still friends tonight. They hung
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: out recently because America Forever is pregnant and now all
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: four of them are going to be mothers and there's
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of cute Instagram posts and I highly recommend
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: that you check out now. I love that. Do you
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: think that kids are going to be friends and you
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: have a sisterhood of traveling pants? I that would be
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: so funny if their moms were like, you should all
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: share a pair of pants and they'd be like, no,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: what is this? Um? But I love that they're also friends.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: My three nips, I'll give one to America, one to Amber,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: one to blake An Alexa's longest a half. Sorry, Mary,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: what would you rate this movie? I gave it three nips?
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: Who are you giving your nips to myself? Well, she's empowered,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: She's taken them back like the nips. Cool? So Mary,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: where can we find you? On social meats at Mary
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: Hooley in a R Y h o U l I
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: e um. I'm on Instagram and Twitter, so look at
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: those cool. You can find us on Instagram, on Twitter,
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: on website, on other places all at bytel Cast and
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: we are now on the house stuff Works network. But
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that you can't still join our patreon
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: ak Matreon, which is patreon dot com. Slash backtel Cast
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: five bucks a month gets you two extra exclusive episodes
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: A wow, and they're good and they're can they're good.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: They're all recorded in Caitlin's bed, and so they're kind
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: of intimate as well. They're a little bit like, they're
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: a little rough around the edges. We talk story, we
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: I feel like we swear more. It gets wild and anyways,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: so sign up for the Patreon. I'm on Twitter at
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: Jamie laft as help, and I'm at Caitlin Darante and
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: I guess we'll just talk to you fucking next time. Guys. Hey, Jamie,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: can I borrow your pair of pants that also fit me? Yes?
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: I hope you don't mind going? Oh yeah, what are
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: the parameters on going commando in these pants? No rules?
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: No rules? Make a third movie and we'll find out.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: We'll find out, all right. Bye,