Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Chelsea Perkins - Revenge Murder

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Chelsea Perkins - Revenge Murder · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: In March of twenty twenty one, a man was found
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: shot in the back of the head along a quiet
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: trail in a United States National park. What started as
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: a strange and mysterious killing quickly unraveled into a carefully
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: planned act tied to years of unresolved trauma, digital footprints,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: and a cross state trail of evidence. This is the
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: story of how one moment in the woods exposed the
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: limits of justice and the devastating cost of taking it
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: into one's own hands. This is the tragic and convoluted
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: story of Matthew Dunmyer and Chelsea Perkins.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: and Grim, a true crime podcast.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: The following podcast and material intended about your audience listener
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: discretion is It's.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: The last Friday before Christmas Day.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: So there's not a whole lot of time to make
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: sure you're on the nice list or the naughty list.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I need them where you want to land.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: At this point, I think it's done. No, it's decided.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: There is no. It's never too late for redemption. It's
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: never too late for redemption.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Well, honestly, this is actually a good time. A year
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: to maybe have a reminder because it's just madness out there.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: It is. People are driving like crazy, They're being dicks
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: to each other. Yeah, everyone's in a rush and not
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: looking to where everyone else is walking or living or existing.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: It's almost unsafe to be driving. Like, we live in
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: a fair small town and the other day I got
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: cut off like twice. So it's like, say, if I
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: wasn't fully paying attention or had my mind somewhere else, like,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: holy shit, there's an accident.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So I understand everyone has things going on, but
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: just try and be aware, try and be a little nice.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: That's what Christmas is about, you know, be nice to
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: those around you, so and try and spread that if
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: you can.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: If you're on the naughtylist, you're staying on the naughtulist.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Oh just kidding.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: We literally watched the Muppets a Christmas Carol last night.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Yea Ebenezer Scrooge redeemed himself overnight.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Come on now, Yeah that was like, that was really lovely.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a whole moral of the story, you know,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: redemption and being nice. And here you're just like, no,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: it's too late, no one can do it.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Just kidding. I actually sat through that and put my
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: laptop away and didn't work. It was it was nice.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we do have a big announcement we got to make,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: not just talking about Christmas. We have officially joined up
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: on the iHeartMedia platform. So you might notice a little
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: bit of changes within, like how ads are played or anything,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: but generally speaking you shouldn't notice much. It's more so
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: on the back end. But we're super super excited to,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: you know, make that change.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a really smooth transition, so I think
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: was it well for me?
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you didn't have to do any of the back
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: end work.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: I had to listen to you, and you weren't very
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: you weren't really complaining, So I felt like it went pretty.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Smooth because I was focused, I was doing things.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Oh, I was moral support, and it seemed from my
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: end to go pretty good.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: You did pour me and Mimosa to celebrate afterwards, so
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Thank you. I did.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we are like full blown Christmas drinks over here,
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Mimosa's eggnog with rom. I'm having a hot chocolate eggnog
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: this morning.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I'm just having coffee, but that's also a Christmas drink.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: That's an everyday, all the time, drink.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, but anyway, very excited to be moving over to
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: that new network.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so all the all the exciting new things. Hey,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: you know, just looking forward to it. But I do
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: think we should get into the case instead of too
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: much chit chat. You ready for it?
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: I am. You've told me a tiny bit about this one,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: so I'm very intrigued to hear about it.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, let's let's go and dive into the detail.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Let's do it.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: It was late in the morning on Tuesday, March ninth,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, when a pair of hikers stepped onto
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: the Tera Vista trail inside Cyahuga Valley National Park. It's
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: a quiet stretch of woods south of Cleveland that most
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: people visit for its scenery, not really for surprises. The
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: trail winds through thick trees and uneven ground, and it's
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: easy to lose sight of other hikers once you step
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: off the main path. And that's when they saw him,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: a man lying face down in the leaves, just off
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: that path and laying perfectly still.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: At first glance, there was no obvious sign of a struggle,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: no drag marks in the earth, no disturbed brush, just
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: a body that clearly didn't belong there. Now, park rangers
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: and first responders were called and arrived shortly after. The
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: man's body was already cold to the touch as they
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: knelt down and felt for a pulse that was not there.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: There was little decomposite, which suggested he hadn't been there
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: for long, and the cause of death, well, it was immediate.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: He had a single gunshot wound to the back of
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: his head. There was no weapon laying nearby, there was
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: no shell casing on the ground, and no sign that
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: he had tried to defend himself. It was just simple
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: and what appeared to be an execution. However, even if
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: that's what it seemed like, nothing could be ruled out.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Accidents happened in strange ways, for example, and suicides, while
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: unlikely in this situation given the placement and nothing found
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: around him, still had to be considered. Homicide was, of
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: course the most possible, but without a suspect or motive,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: or even an identity, it was still just a theory. Now,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: because the death occurred inside a national park, federal jurisdiction
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: kicked in almost immediately. The FBI joined the investigation. Alongside
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: local authorities and investigators while they began working to identify
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: the man, and with dental records and missing persons reports,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: they soon confirmed his identity as thirty one year old
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Matthew Dunmyer, a Virginia native who had been living in Ohio.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: But even with a name, the mystery only continued to deepen.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Why was he alone in a remote area of the
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: National Park, Why had someone shot him from behind? And
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: who had been with him before he died? Who had
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: shot him? How? Why? All these questions began to pile up.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Investigators shifted their focus from the crime scene to try
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: and figure out those questions and of course, his final
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: known movements. Now they had discovered that Matthew had moved
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: from Virginia to Ohio in an attempt to do a
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: bit of a fresh start on his life. He was
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: living near Hudson, working at a screen printing shop and
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: spending most of his time with coworkers who had become
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: his main social circle. Now to them, Matthew came across
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: as laid back. He was creative and easy to get
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: along with. He played guitar, loved music, and often talked
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: about his kids back home in Virginia. On the evening
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: of Friday, March fifth, Matthew went out with his coworkers
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: to a bar called Teaky Underground. It wasn't unusual for
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: the group to grab drinks after work, and nothing about
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: the night really seemed off, at least not at first.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: At some point during the evening, Matthew mentioned that he
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: had plans for the weekend. A woman he knew from
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Virginia was in town and they were going to go
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: spend time together. Now, not long after that, his phone
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: lit up with a message. Matthew glanced down, smiled, and
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: told the group that she had arrived, and so he
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: stood up, grabbed his coat, and headed outside. Now, one
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: of his supervisors followed him on his way out to
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: say goodbye and you know, wish him a good weekend
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: sort of thing. So as they talked, the supervisor noticed
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: a small white car idling in the parking lot and
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: a woman with dark hair sitting in the driver's seat.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Matthew smiled a big grin and shook his supervisor's hand,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: then got into the passenger seat of the car as
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: it pulled away. That was the last time anyone at
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: the bar would ever see Matthew alive.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Dun dun, dum Hey yeah.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Now. Surveillance cameras in the area later confirmed them leaving,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: and traffic cameras and told data also showed the white
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: smart car moving through Cleveland that evening as well. Around
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: the same time, the car stopped at a gas station.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Footage showed Matthew going inside to buy cigarettes, a canned drink,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: and a bottle of Aquafina water. From there, the car
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: headed towards an Airbnb on the east side of Cleveland.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Later that night, cameras near a sandwich shop captured Matthew
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: and a woman together casually grabbing food before returning to
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: that airbnb. Cell Phone data placed both of them inside
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: the rental overnight. The next morning, Saturday, March sixth, Matthew
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: sent several text messages to his girlfriend back in Virginia. Now,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: his girlfriend knew he was meeting this girl as it
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: seemed like it was a meetup of potentially an old
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: friend or something like that, So she was aware of this.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, So here I was assuming this was his
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: girlfriend or a lady he was interested in.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Definitely not his girlfriend.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Now, from the tone of the messages back to his girlfriend.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: It suggested that there was some tension going on with
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: this girl that he was now hanging out with. He
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: said that, you know, they'd met up and somehow he
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: managed to upset her and he admitted, quote pissed this
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: chick off end quote Now. Still, nothing in those messages
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: suggested he felt unsafe or believed that he could be
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: in any danger. But at ten twenty nine am, matt
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: sent one final text to his girlfriend and said, Okay,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: I'll see you in a little while now. Investigators would
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: later determine that message was sent from inside Coya Huga
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Valley National Park, the same place where he was found dead,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: and of course Matthew never made it home. Now, as
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: detectives pieced together the timeline, it was obvious Matthew hadn't
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: gone into the woods alone. Somewhere between the bar, the airbnb,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: and the park, someone else had been with him, and
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: whoever that person was had vanished since without a trace.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: But for now all investigators had was a car, a
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: woman in town for the weekend, and a growing sense
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: that this wasn't a spontaneous act. So as investigators continued
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: to work back through Matthew's final hours, new information began
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: to surface from people who had been inside Cyahuga Valley
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: National Park that same morning, and they were well. They
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: were first hand encounters that placed another person in the
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: woods at the exact same time that Matthew seemed to disappear.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Late in the morning on March sixth, a couple walking
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: along the trails near the Terra Vista Natural Study Area
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: reported hearing a single sharp sound that echoed through the trees.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: It sounded to them like a gunshot, and the noise
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: was unsettling enough that they turned around and left the
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: area immediately and did not continue with their plans.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Hey, that's probably pretty smart. Hey, that would be alarming.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Definitely now. Not long after, another pair of hikers entered
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: the same section of the park, and as they made
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: their way along the trail near an old cemetery, they
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: noticed a woman walking alone. She stood out immediately. She
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: was dressed heavily in black, dark pants, black hoodie, and
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: heavy boots that didn't quite fit the setting of hiking
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: on a nature trail to say the least. Hey, no
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: one's judging, it's just a little out of the ordinary.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: And she didn't look injured or she didn't panic either,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: but she didn't really look relaxed. Something else was an
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: air about her to say. When the hiker spoke to her,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: she said that she was lost and she was trying
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: to find the cemetery. Her tone was flat and calm,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: and after a brief exchange, she turned and walked away. Now,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: at the time, it didn't feel like much more than
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: an encounter in the woods with someone dressed all in black.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: People get lost in the park time to time. It's
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: not out of the ordinary. People look for a cemetery
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: or other landmarks. But once Matthew's body was discovered days later,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: those interactions took a much heavier weight because well, she
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: had been seen near the exact area where Matthew's body
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: would later be found, and witnesses could place her within
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: a narrow window of time.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: And she wasn't like very calm or did have an
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: odd demeanor about her.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, So you have this window of a gunshot
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: was heard, a body is found. When you find someone
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: that just is a little bit out of place, and
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: all those things fall into place, that's when suspicions start
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: to get raised. Now, at this point in the investigation,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: detectives still didn't know who she was. They didn't have
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: a name, they didn't know where she came from really,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: or where she went afterwards. The first break in the case, though,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: came from Matthew's workplace. His coworkers at the screen printing
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: shop in Hudson, Ohio told investigators about the night that
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: he disappeared. That on March fifth, Matthew had gone out
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: with them to the local bar, the Teaky Underground, when
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: they mentioned, you know, the meeting of the woman in
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: the parking lot from out of town for the weekend,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: and when it came time to leave, supervisor walked him
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: outside and said goodbye, and the details of him climbing
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: in the small white car parked outside the bar came
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: to light. It had been an out of state car
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: because it had the plates from another state and the
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: person behind the wheel appeared to be a woman with
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: dark hair. Surveillance footage from the nearby cameras backed up
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: that account, and from there investigators began tracing the vehicle's
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: movements using traffic cameras, toll readers, and license plate recognition systems.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: The white smart car appeared again at a gas station,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: then later moving through Cleveland neighborhoods the trail didn't stop
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: at city limits, though records show the same car had
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: traveled from Ohio to Virginia on March fifth, just hours
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: before Matthew was seen alive. Toll data confirmed a very
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: deliberate multi state drive that aligned precisely with his final moments.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Now after his death, the following morning, the vehicle left
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Ohio again, crossing into Michigan before eventually returning to Virginia.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: What had initially looked like an isolated killing on a
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: hiking trail was now clearly part of a larger, planned sequence.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Someone had driven hundreds of miles to reach Matthew, to
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: stay overnight with him, and then left the state within
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: hours of his death. The case was no longer confined
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: to this national park. It had crossed state lines, involved
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: federal land, and pointed to planning rather than chance. Investigators
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: soon identified the owner of that white smart car, and
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: it was a man by the name of John Perkins.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: He was a man living in Virginia, but records quickly
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: showed he hadn't been in Ohio that weekend, and it
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: was obvious he was not the person seen driving. So
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: the next step was to figure out who had been
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: behind the wheel. Now John did have a wife, and
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: her name was Chelsea Perkins. As agents began pulling records
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: on her name, things started surfacing. Travel data showed she
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: had driven from Virginia to Ohio on March fifth, twenty
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: twenty one, arriving just hours before Matthew had left the
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: bar with her. The timeline fit way too cleanly to ignore.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Clearly she was the one driving that car. Now, the
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Airbnb Matthew stayed in that night wasn't booked under his name,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: nor was it a fake name or even a third party.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: It had been reserved under Chelsea Perkins's name, confirming that
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: she was in fact there. Also, she used her own
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: credit card.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Hmm, okay, so she's really not hiding that she was
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: there at all.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: No, definitely not. The address placed her and Matthew together overnight,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: less than twenty four hours before his death, and surveillance
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: footage from the area, and of course you know it
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: all showed them together. It was very obvious investigators now
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: had something they didn't have before, a full identity tied
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: to the vehicle, the lodging, and the timeline. Now Chelsea
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: wasn't this mysterious woman anymore. She was a confirmed part
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: of Matthew's final days, and at this point, while she
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: wasn't under arrest, In fact, she didn't even know that
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: she was at the center of an expanding federal investigation.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: But behind the scenes, agents began quietly building their profile
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: and started digging into her background deeper, and what they
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: found was not at all what they expected. As it
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: turns out, Chelsea Perkins was a former US Coast Guard
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: service member. She was also married, as we know, and
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: she also had children. Now after leaving the military, Chelsea
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Perkins had built a public online persona alongside her private
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: life as a wife and mother. She was active on
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: social media and earned an income through online adult content platforms,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: including one such as OnlyFans, operating under a different name. Now,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: to investigators, this wasn't evidence of wrongdoing by any means,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: but it did explain her extensive digital footprint and why
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: her online activity would later become part of this investigation.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: So there was nothing about her that suggested a history
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: of violence or criminal behavior. There's no prior arrests, no
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: obvious red flags. A mother, a wife, an adult content creator.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: That's about it. And as agents shifted their focus to
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Chelsea Perkins, it began securing court authorization to examine the
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: digital trail surrounding her movements. They got a hold of
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: her phone provider and looked through all the information, which
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: included app data and location data. Now through this they
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: began reconstructing her movements digitally. GPS data placed her in
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Cleveland on the evening of March fifth, lining up with
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: surveillance footage and toll records and everything else. Cell Phone
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: tower pings confirmed she stayed overnight near the airbnb, which
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: by morning of March sixth, both her phone and Matthews
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: were then moving in sync. Her social media added more
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: to this. Still, in the days before the trip, Chelsea
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: had posted an interesting and perhaps cryptic message that read
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: quote dead men tell no tales end quote. Now on
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: its own, that might mean nothing, but paired with everything else,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: it lands a little bit differently, almost as if there's
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: a bit of a hidden meaning behind it.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Potentially it sure does well. And also, this is twenty
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: twenty one. It's like, I don't know it. They're just
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: they're able to find so much information, right like, so
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: this is honestly surprising me that if she would be
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: the killer, because she just isn't hiding a single thing, but.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: It's potential that she's not trying to hide I guess.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Now, while digital evidence was painting a very troubling picture,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: investigators still needed something solid, something physical that could stand
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: on its own in court. They needed real evidence. They
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: needed something to say that she was in fact there,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: that she in fact killed him, because as of right now,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: she was with him prior to she left after one
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: could have been seen in the park. We don't know.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: There's all this surrounding it, but there's nothing tying her
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: to the exact crime scene and the exact crime Yeah,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: that's true.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Maybe she didn't even have anything to hide per.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Se, So it is just circumstantially yeah, point, it really is. Well,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: the evidence that they needed came from the autopsy and
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: the crime scene itself, or at least some did. If
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: you recall, Matthew had been killed with a single gunshot
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: wound to the back of the head, and the trajectory
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: told investigators a lot that the bullet entered from behind
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: at close range, traveling in a straight path. Now, there
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: were no defensive wounds, no injury, suggesting a fight or
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: sudden confrontation. Whatever happened out there, it was over quickly,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: like he was with someone he knew or trusted. Yes,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: again still circumstantial. But near Matthew's body, investigators found a
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: partially full Aquafina water bottle, and forensic testing would turn
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: it into one of the most important pieces of evidence
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: in this case because DNA analysis revealed two profiles on
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: the bottle, Matthew's and Chelsea's. Oh and Matthew is seen
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: on surveillance purchasing an Aquafina water bottle with her.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: There you go. That's like a smoking gun and a half,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: is it?
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: Though?
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Kind of I feel like.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Now here's the thing. Sure they could have shared the
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: water bottle an hour before.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, I guess still.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Doesn't pin her down at the scene.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: True, because she was with him when he bought that,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: but that doesn't necessarily mean that she didn't just have
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: a drink when they bought it, and he later took
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: it on a hike. Okay, I see where you're going.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: So these are important pieces of evidence for sure, but
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: there's still not quite the smoking gun they're looking for now.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Her DNA was also found under Matthew's fingernails and on
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: hair recovered from his body. The evidence showed that the
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: two had been close in physical contact shortly before his death,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: but still did not by itself prove a crime, but
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: it firmly established that Matthew had not been alone in
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: the woods. Now they had digital records placing Chelsea at
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: the scene, they really do, but pulling the trigger murdering
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: someone is a different story. They had witnesses who saw
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: her in the woods immediately after a gunshot DNA tying
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: her there. But now, up until this point in the investigation,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: it had focused almost entirely in what happened that day
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: in March, and rightfully so. But as agents continued digging
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: into Chelsea's background, they uncovered a piece of history that
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: reframed the case in a way no one saw coming.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: And in March of twenty seventeen, Chelsea herself had walked
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: into a police station in Virginia Beach and made a
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: very serious accusation. She reported that Matthew Dunmyer, the murder
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: victim and someone she had known for years, had actually
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: sexually assaulted and raped her. Now, the details of that
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: report were never publicly released, but police did investigate. Matthew
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: admitted that he had been together sexually with her, but
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: he claimed the encounter was consensual, and ultimately charges were
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: not filed citing insufficient evidence.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, wow, there you go.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Legally the matter ended right there. But for Chelsea, clearly
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: it didn't end at all.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Well, no, it wouldn't have for sure.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Investigators would later learn that she carried the weight of
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: that allegation four years. Messages recovered from her phone and
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: social media accounts showed lingering anger, resentment, and a belief
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: that Matthew had escaped accountability for what he had done
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: to her and who knows, potentially others. In private conversations,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: she wrote that one day he would get his someday quote.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Unquote, oh gosh, okay.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Now, this history was known to Matthew's coworkers in Ohio.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: It wasn't known to the hikers who crossed paths with
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Chelsea in the woods either, and it wasn't still known
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: to the investigators when they began piecing this whole thing together.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Right at the very beginning, they had no clue. But
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: once it was uncovered, it provided a lot of insight
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: and a possible motive for a crime. Now, importantly, investigators
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: were careful how this information was handled, the twenty seventeen
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: allegation had never resulted in charges, and Matthew was never
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: convicted of a crime. That legal reality remained unchanged. What
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: the history did show, however, was that Chelsea and Matthew
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: did not reconnect as strangers or casual acquaintances. They reconnected, yes,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: but with unresolved trauma, anger and a pass that had
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: never been settled in court. So with everything they had,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: investigators now needed to try and prove what they thought
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: to be true, which was that Chelsea had murdered Matthew.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: So on March thirtieth, federal agents executed a search warrant
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: at her home in Arlington, Virginia, carefully documenting everything they
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: found inside the residents, agents recovered several firearms, including a
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Springfield Armory nine millimeter pistol registered to Chelsea. One of
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: the weapons was located alongside her personal identification, leaving no
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: question about the ownership or access, and ammunition was of
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: course seized as well. Now, the bullet recovered from Matthew's
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: skull was also a nine millimeter round, and test firings
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: were of course conducted soon thereafter, and the markings on
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: the test bullets were compared to the bullet taken from
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Matthew's bullet body and guess what it was an undeniable match.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Oh no, they literally have a smoking gun.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I do have a burning question here, what's up?
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Because like she went to go visit him as a friend,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: so were they they were in his mind still on
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: like friend grounds here, I don't know, and it wouldn't
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: have been weird or alarming or I don't know, okay,
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: because yeah, just sitting here, I'm like, that's so odd
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: that a to anyone in her life, she would be
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: able to go visit him and that would be okay
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: and be like that he wouldn't think that's fishy, you
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: know that she wants to come meet up with him.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: There are some gray areas within this story and we'll
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: touch on that. Don't worry, Okay. So now, beyond the
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: firearms that were found, there were also receipts that were collected,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: told data and booking records which confirmed Chelsea's drive to
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Virginia to Ohio had happened and her overnight's stay at
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: the Airbnb. Investigators would also recover deleted Facebook messages between
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: the two of them. The conversation wasn't long, but it
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: was enough to establish that the meeting had been planned
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: days in advance, not arranged on a whim. But most
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: damning of all, forensic analysis also recovered deleted data from
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: her phone that included a draft note written from Matthew's
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: point of view. It was a suicide note.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Shit.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: There was a drafted suicide note written from Matthew's point
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: of view found on her phone that she had wrote. Now,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: this was never sent, it was never transferred to his phone,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: never printed. Nothing. It did exist, Okay, typed out, saved,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: and later deleted, So take that with a grain of salt,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: but it did exist.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: That was probably her ultimate plan, was to make this
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: seem like a suicide and then something yeah when a
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: rye or astray or whatever exactly.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: And finding this in her phone it changed a lot
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: on how investigators viewed this case. This clearly wasn't just
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: someone who panicked after a crime situation. This was someone
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: who had thought very clearly and deliberately about how the
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: death would be explained, how it would look, and what
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: story would be told afterwards.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Probably for the past four years, if I'm being honest.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Potentially Yeah, now even though this note was never used,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: its presence mattered hugely. It showed forethought and clear pre
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: meditation to potential murder, that Matthew's death had been considered
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: in advance, like you said, upwards of even four years. Now,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: despite the evidence that was gathered, Chelsea was still not
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: taken into custody, at least not right away anyways. Instead,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: she returned to her life in Virginia and remained free
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: for nearly nine months while the investigation continued behind the scenes. Now,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: the delay was not due to uncertainty about her involvement.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: It was pretty clear what slowed the process down was procedures.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: The crime had taken place on federal land, which places
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: it under federal jurisdiction, while Chelsea lived in another state,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: So every step required coordination between agencies, extensive forensic testing too,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: and careful legal review, and all of that takes a
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: lot of time. Now, DNA analysis in particular, it took
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: a while samples collected from the water bottle, for example, Like,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: that's not something to pick up the water bottle and
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: just know the DNA's there.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it definitely can take quite a while.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: For sure, So I might have talked about it like, oh,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: they found the water bottle and it had her DNA
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: on it. It took months to figure out her DNA
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: was on there.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Matthew's body also needed processing in documentation to federal standards.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Ballistic testings also had to be completed and verified. Prosecutors
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: needed every piece of this to be air tight before
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: moving forward with charges that could result in a life
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: in prison, so that takes time and work. Now, during
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: all this, during this period, Chelsea did not go on
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: the run. She stayed in her home, cared for her children,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: and continued posting online without even a hint that she
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: was ever the focus in a major investigation. She knew
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: she was, though, because they had executed a warrant on
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: her place, right, she knew she was under the microscope.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: But she was just living well. I mean, she and
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: her mind probably felt this. She was owed this, So
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: she's just going about living her life.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: I guess saying, yeah, she's not trying to hide what
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: she did. She's not trying to run from what she did.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: She's just potentially took care of business and got back
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: to everyday life. Now, behind the scenes, federal agents kept
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: watching her. Her movements were monitored her communications were tracked
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: and legally were permitted anyways, and by the end of
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, the case was complete. Every delay had
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: served its purpose, and every piece of evidence was now
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: in place. All that remained was an arrest. So in
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: a quiet day in December of twenty twenty one, nearly
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: nine months after Matthew Dunmyer was killed in the Woods,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: federal agents arrived at Chelsea's home in Virginia and placed
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: her under arrest. There was no dramatic standoff, no attempt
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: to flee. Neighbors simply watched as she was quietly taken
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: into custody, with many of those neighbors unaware of what
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: she had done and why she was being led away
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: in the first place. Chelsea was charged with first degree
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: murder on federal land, along with a firearms violation tied
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: to the use and discharge of a weapon during a
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: crime of violence, meaning if convicted at trial, she was
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: facing possible life in prison plus additional time for weapons charges.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, does it make it worse that it was on
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: federal land?
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: It does? Yes?
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Really? Okay, she probably had no idea about that then, No, assuming.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: I don't quote me on this, but I believe it's
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: the charges are upscaled or sorry, not the charges, Like
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: the sentencing is upscaled, So yeah, your charges is also
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: upscaled to like first scream murder to first scream murder
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: on federal land. Yeah, which means I think it's a
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: harsher punishment.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Huh Okay.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Now, for Matthew's family, the arrest brought a mix of
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: relief and devastation. The uncertainty of what had followed, you know,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: with his death was finally replaced with answers. But the
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: reality of what those answers meant, well, it was impossible
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: to ignore their son, who was himself a father of two,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: had been deliberately killed for an alleged evil act, and
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: the woman responsible was someone he had trusted enough to
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: spend his final night with. But why he was doing
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: so is a whole other conversation which you were kind
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: of already touching on, which we don't really know. Perhaps
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: it was to reconcile past actions, Maybe we don't know.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Maybe it was driven by desires of more infidelity. Maybe
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: it was simply platonic. We just do not know.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: While Chelsea sat in jail awaiting the next phase, of
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: her case, a separate tragedy was already beginning to unfold,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: one that investigators had never anticipated. Matthew dun meyers mother,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Tommy Lynne dun Meyer, had not taken the death of
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: her son very well, and in the months following the
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: discovery of his body, her grief hardened into obsession. Convinced
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: that the system was moving far too slowly, she began
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: conducting her own investigation, pouring over information and trying to
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: identify who she believed was responsible for Matthew's murder, and
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: by November of twenty twenty one, Tommy Lynn believed she
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: had found the person who killed her son. But she
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: was wrong. She didn't know she was wrong, and accompanied
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: by her husband, John McQuillan, she traveled to Washington, d c.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Convinced that this woman she had found was living there
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: just in peace, being Matthew's killer. The plan she had
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: was simple. She was dressed as a ups driver, carrying
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: a fake package and a concealed firearm. John waited nearby
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: as a getaway driver, and as they knocked on the
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: door to deliver said package, the door opened and Tommy
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Lynn pulled the trigger and fired two shots into the
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: innocent woman's stomach.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: O holy fridge. I did not see this coming at all.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the woman who answered the door had no connection
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: to Matthew whatsoever or his death at all. She was
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: an innocent stranger who got shot because someone took what
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: they thought was justice into their own hands.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Oh my word, Okay, please tell me she made it.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Thankfully, this woman survived the attack thanks to emergency services
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: who reached her in time.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's I mean, gosh. I can see like
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: being angry and like wanting to get like justice for
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: your kid and stuff, but that is not the way
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: to do it.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, I agree. We'll talk about it out. Don't worry.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, especially if you're not totally well. I guess
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: she probably was totally certain. I don't know.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Okay. There's two perspectives on this though, because arguably Chelsea
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: did the same thing her mother did. Chelsea went and
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: shot someone who wronged her, who raped and sexually assaulted her.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: That's why Matthew's.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Dead, the same thing Matthew's mother did.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, or sorry Matthew's mother. Yeah, So Matthew's mother
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: is now taking yeah, doing the same thing. But it
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: was an innocent person yeah. So so sometimes, yeah, you
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: know what, you might want to take matters into your
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: own hands, but are you really doing it properly?
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Well, and in reality, what is that going to necessarily
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: do for you? Because you're probably going to get caught,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: and then what's your life after that? You know?
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Well exactly, So this case literally shows two sides of
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: the coin when you take matters into your own hands. Yes,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: a potential sex predator was held accountable quote unquote.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: We'll say that which they they should have been.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: They should have been. Yeah, if actually they did that crime,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: they definitely should be. Yeah, So she took matters to
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: make sure he was actually held accountable. His mother was
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: trying to do the same, but she got it wrong.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: She had no clue. Yeah, so she was holding the
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: wrong person accountable. So there's that two side that when
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: it goes wrong and when it does, like you know
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, and I think we should just say too, like
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: held accountable by you know, going to jail, not necessarily
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: being like.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: That's when why I said quote unquote held up accountable,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: because it's depending on your perspective, and in her perspective,
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: she was holding him quote unquote accountable. Now after this
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: had occurred and police arrived, they were quickly closing in
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: and Tommy Lynn and John while they were attempting to run,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: but soon after they got stopped. With the police and
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: everything right, John exited the vehicle and surrendered, while Tommy
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Lynn remained sitting inside the vehicle. But moments later, there
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: was another sharp pop sound as she pulled the trigger
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: and took her own life with the same gun she
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: used in the shooting. Oh no, So, in the span
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: of a single night, Matthew's family lost a second life
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: and an innocent woman was nearly killed.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Holy mother of shit. Okay, this is just like a
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: rollercoaster and a half, is it. Ever so, and when
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: she took her life there, she didn't know that the
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: person she shot had survived or anything yet.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Really, she didn't know that the person she shot was
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: rough and it was wrong, and she didn't know what
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: the person was going to survive, So she assumed that
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: she had killed the right person when everything about what
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: she thought was incorrect. She had injured severely the incorrect person.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, that is just such a mess.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Which is why taking things into your own hands is
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: not always right. Because look at the mess it causes.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that family too is now like the dad's
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: dealing with a son that got murdered, a wife that's
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: now committed suicide, and he is probably going to be
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: facing some jail time, I would imagine.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: He was later charged and pled guilty to accessory after
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: the fact to assault with an intent to kill for
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: his role, and ultimately he was sentenced to approximately three
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: years in jail.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, that is just such a mess.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this whole vigilante thing, it had no impact
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: on Chelsea's case whatsoever. Who Well, she's the one who
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: did it. We're aware of that. We already have the
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: smoking gun and everything.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: I do wonder how like the mom was just so
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: convinced about this other person, you know.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not too sure how she got to that.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: But when you're when you're mourning and your mind isn't
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: necessarily you know, in its right place, like you could,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: I could see how you could fixate on something and
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: really believe it too.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Oh one hundred percent, which is exactly why I do
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: not advocate for taking matters into your own hands. Yeah, Like,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: there's there are certainly times where I think someone needs
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: to be more held accountables. Justice has failed. Things moved
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: too slowly could result in someone getting hurt again. However,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: in the same breath, an innocent person almost died because
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: someone took those matters into their own hands. They got
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: too blinded by what they were fixated on, and the
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: truth is always not exactly so easy to see anyways.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: After her arrest, Chelsea Perkins was transferred to federal custody
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: and the folks shifted to prosecution. The evidence against her, well,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: it was extensive, to say the least, and prosecutors made
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: it very clear early on that they had things like
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: the smoking gun and it was going to be a
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: slam dunk case, their surveillance footage, DNA ballistics, all of it.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: In an attempt to avoid a trial, prosecutors offered Chelsea
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: a plea deal. The proposal would have required her to
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: admit guilt in exchange for a sentence in a range
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: of twenty seven to thirty one years in prison. It
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: was a deal that would have guaranteed she would eventually
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: be released, though only after decades behind bars. Without this offer,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: she could be facing life without the possibility of parole,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: and Chelsea rejected the deal.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Instead, she maintained that while she had in fact killed
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Matthew Dunmyer, she's admitting it, the act she committed did
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: not rise to the level of first degree murder. Her
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: defense signaled an intention to argue that the killing was
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: tied to pass trauma and not the result of long
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: term planning. It's a very risky strategy, to say the least,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: especially given the evidence in the existence of things like
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: the drafted suicide note they found in her phone, which
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: show premeditation. Now, for years, the case moved slowly through
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: the federal system. Pre trial motions were filed, evidence was
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: reviewed and challenged, but all the while, prosecutors remained confident,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: while the defense weighed the growing reality that the jury
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: might see the case very differently than they hoped. Then, finally,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: in March of twenty twenty five, just weeks before her
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: case was scheduled to go to trial, Chelsea Perkins changed course, and,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: after years of denying criminal intent and rejecting earlier plea offers,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: she entered a guilty plea to second degree murder and
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: to using and discharging a firearm during a crime of
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: violence on federal property. As part of the agreement, prosecutors
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: dropped the first degree murder charge, and the decision spared
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: both sides a very lengthy trial, but it did not
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: soften the reality of what Chelsea admitted to doing. In court,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: she acknowledged that she had shot Matthew Dunmyer in the
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: woods of Cuyahouga Valley National Park. When asked directly if
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: she committed the act, she answered quietly quote yes. At
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: sentencing in September of twenty twenty five, the judge described
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: the case as one of the most difficult ones he
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: had to preside over. He acknowledged the history of trauma
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: presented by the defense and recognized that Chelsea's actions were
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: motivated by revenge rather than financial or impulsive gain, or
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: anything along those lines, but at the same time he
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: emphasized that the crime was in fact very deliberate. It
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: involved planning, and resulted in the execution style killing of
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: an unarmed man. Chelsea Perkins was sentenced to twenty two
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: and a half year in federal prison. The court allowed
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: her to serve her time in a facility closer to
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: her family, which was a small concession with credit for
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: time served, so she will likely be in her mid
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: to late fifties before she's eligible for release. Chelsea at
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: sentencing stood firm, and she told the court she accepted
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: responsibility for her actions, and when she was led away
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: to begin her sentence, the legal system considered the case finished.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: For everyone else involved, The impact was only beginning, though.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: Matthew Dunmyer, while he was thirty one years old when
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: he was killed, he never saw his children grow up,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: and whatever complexities existed in his life, whatever allegations followed him,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: his death froze everything in place. His children would come
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: to know their father through memories through secondhand stories in
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: court records rather than presents. His absence created a void
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: that no ruling or sentence could ever repair. Chelsea's children,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: while they were young when their mother was arrested, they
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: are now watching her through prison visits. It's media coverage
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: and legal headlines instead of everyday life. By the time
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: she's eligible for release, they will be adults who spent
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: most of their formative years without her. The consequences of
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: her decision extended far beyond the man that she killed. Now,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: this case offers no clean moral resolution like many of
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: our cases actually do. Instead, though this one forces some
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: very uncomfortable questions about trauma, justice and the limits of
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: the legal system. Chelsea Perkins reported that Matthew dun Meyer
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: had sexually assaulted and raped her years earlier. Prosecutors reviewed
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: the allegations and declined to file charges, citing insufficient evidence,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: and Matthew Dunmeyer was never convicted of that crime. For
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: many survivors of sexual violence, this outcome is painfully familiar.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: Most assaults are never reported. Of those that are few,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: while the few resultant charges or convictions, victims have a
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: fear of retaliation, how they're going to be pursued, and
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: the burden of proof. Well, it often leaves victims feeling
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: very exposed and very unprotected. So when justice feels out
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: of reach, the emotional weight does not disappear. It lingers,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: and it simmers, and it results in people taking matter
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: into their own hands. And there is an old saying,
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: I will put it here just for context, because hey,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: I think it fits dramatically. Two wrongs do not make
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: a right. Whether Matthew did what Chelsea alleged is never
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: going to be known. But what we do know is
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: people who commit crimes like that get away with it
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: far too often. And Chelsea clearly felt a need to
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: take matters into her own hands, just like well Matthew's
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: mother did. What followed in this case was not justice,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: though many people sought to find it. It was instead escalation.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Planning replaced accountability, revenge replaced due process. And for that reason,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: I do not think anyone is guilt free in this story.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: It's just too hard to let someone walk away with
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: a crime. The trail where Matthew was found eventually returned
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: to silence. Hikers passed through once again. Seasons have changed,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: but for the people left behind, the story has not faded.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: It became something they carried forward, a reminder of how
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: quickly unresolved trauma can spiral into irreversible harm, and how violence,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: once unleashed, rarely remains contained. The law closed this file,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: but the consequences did not. And that's the story of
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Matthew Dunmeyer and Chelsea Perkins.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, that one's rough.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: It is rough, And I mentioned that we would kind
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: of talk about some of the gray areas of why
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: there's so many gray areas in this case, it's because
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: everything did not get resolved in court. The first one,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: the alleged sexual allegations. Those never went to trial due
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: to insufficient evidence, so we don't know what evidence was
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: put forth. Those never made it public. And in Chelsea's case,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: she took a plea deal, So her story on what
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: their meeting was about or how things began again, we'll
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: never see the light of day because it didn't go
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: to trial to become public information. Right, So all that
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: is taped away in boxes through her accounts that she
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: may never tell and will not We won't know unless
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: she chooses to speak out.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very tough because like in her mind, I'm
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: I'm sure she you know, felt he needed to die, right, Yeah,
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: because of what he did to her. And maybe she's
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: totally fine paying the price for that now, right, But that,
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: like you said, too, wrongs do not make it right
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: because the life that she's getting to live now, I
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: mean can't be great.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: No. Well, and Matthew's mother's gone, another person got shot
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: and drug into it. His father is also serving time
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: in jail. Like it's it creates more chaos. Yeah, don't
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: get me wrong, I personally am an advocate for there
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: needs to be harsher things. Harsher penalties are charges in
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: accordance to sexual predators, especially when it comes to those
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: who target children. There needs to be some more shit done. However,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: there's a fine fine line. You need to still have evidence,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: you need to still be able to prove things. But
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: at the same time, of course, people don't want to
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: speak up. It's becomes a story of their word versus
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: their word. It's such a convoluted situation. There is no
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: right answer. But certainly taking matters into your own hands
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: is going to result in other shit happening, not necessarily
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: just to you, but other people too. It's not going
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: to end the way you think.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I said it earlier, like just a mess.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: This is a mess. I couldn't imagine the investigators, you know,
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: like just waiting for what's going to happen next.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: Really no kidding in this, so no kidding.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: And it is really too bad though that there wasn't
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: enough evidence, right, and like you've said, in a lot
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: of cases, there isn't enough evidence when it comes to
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: sexual assaults and stuff, and that it sucks.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well in a lot of cases too, Like sexual
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: assaults take advantage of women and people in terrible situations.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's someone who you know what could be homeless
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: or struggling with addictions. Authorities have a very bad rap
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: of not listening or believing people in those situations. Oh yeah,
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: so people just get away with it and keep walking, right,
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: nothing happens. Who are they going to believe the person
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: who sexually assaulted them or the person who's living on
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: a street, And do you have that perspective? Authorities just, well,
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: it's bias. And so now people who hear these stories
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: of biasness, well, they don't want to come forward because
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: they don't want to be rejected or ridiculed. Of course,
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: even if you have a situation of two individuals that
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: the police will respect and listen to equally, it becomes
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: their word versus your word. What evidence do you have?
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Sexual assaults? Guess what, they don't happen right in front
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: of a camera. You don't have a rape kit or
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: anything like that. You're not doing an interview with them,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: trying to get like secret audio of like tell me
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: you're raping me right now so I can give it
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: to evident like that. It just doesn't happen. What evidence
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: can you find?
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and even maybe at one point, like it
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: was consensual and then it turned not right, and so
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: then it's like, how do you go about proving that
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: it's just really hard and not Okay?
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's it's a tough situation, but authorities certainly
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: need to be trying to evolve it and do more
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: in those situations. But again, where does that answer lie?
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I just do know that two wrongs
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: do not make it right.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, that's really the best way you can put
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: it for this case, because yeah, a lot of people
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: have have have to deal with shit going forward now
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: to like Chelsea's kids, right, they don't have their mom
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: with them, so that I don't know, that's not great
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: for them.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: The entire thing is really a tragedy. And honestly, I
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: could go on forever on this one, because there's the
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: more you dig, the more your perception and opinions change,
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: and you go this way that way, and you talk.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: I'm debating myself in my own mind over this one.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: So I could go on forever. But I do want
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: to thank you guys for being here. This is quite
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: the story. Let us know your opinion. If you have
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: any shoot us a message in email or comment or
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: anything like that. Links are all on the description of
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: this podcast. We really appreciate you being here. Because of you,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: we get to keep doing what we do. We're an
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: independent podcast, researched, host it, produce all of it. It's us.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: We are a team. There's no one pulling the strings.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: But us, just us, just us.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Just highlight the word just ready.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: I know you like that, So until next time, stay wicked.