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12 as One: The Story Behind the Seattle Seahawks 2025 Super Bowl Run · Sea Hawkers Podcast: for Seattle Seahawks fans

0:09
Brandan: Welcome to the Sea Hawkers Podcast.
0:12
I'm your host, Brandan Schulze, and today I am joined by an author
0:16
and a Seahawks podcaster, or former Seahawks po- podcaster.
0:21
we've got Mike Dugar, Michael-Shawn Dugar of The Athletic.
0:26
And, you've got a new book out, Mike, 12 Is 1, recapping
0:31
the Seahawks Super Bowl season.
0:33
And, you, you've got some other stuff going on too, man.
0:36
how, how you been doing?
0:38
Dugar: Been doing good.
0:39
First off, thank you for having me.
0:41
s- secondly, yeah, just I, I've been busy.
0:44
It may not look like it, 'cause I haven't…
0:46
I don't think I've had a byline in, a, a little bit.
0:49
But, I've, I've been nonstop working, on, like, deeper dive
0:54
feature stuff, for The Athletic.
0:56
like, the way I've been explaining it to people is before I
0:59
was on more of a newspaper cadence.
1:01
You know, newspapers publish every day.
1:03
Now I'm more on, like, a magazine cadence.
1:05
You know, monthly.
1:06
Ma- Could even be quarterly, depends on access, what the story is.
1:09
Is it s- is it a sensitive story?
1:11
Is it a fun story?
1:12
so that's, like, the new, the new world.
1:15
which I know Seahawk fans weren't super happy to see me bounce and, and
1:19
and end the Seahawks Man to Man podcast that we had been doing for nine years.
1:22
But, it was definitely, that was my ninth year covering the team.
1:26
I've got two books out about the team.
1:28
They, they won the Super Bowl.
1:30
you know, if they, and if they win it again I'll be around, but you know, it
1:34
it was time for the, for the next thing.
1:36
And I'm excited.
1:37
One of my, one of the stories I'm working on is something that will
1:41
be of interest to Seahawk fans.
1:42
I, I, I, I will say that.
1:43
So that, that's cool.
1:44
Hopefully that comes together here in a couple weeks.
1:46
Brandan: Nice.
1:46
Well, one thing is clear, Mike, is w- when it comes to your writing
1:50
you're an incredibly talented writer.
1:52
And so I feel like as Seahawks fans when we, when we find someone who's
1:55
on the Seahawks beat and, and you recognize that writing, you, you
1:58
think, "Okay, well, they're, they'll go on to something big eventually."
2:01
And, and you went on to something big with this book be- well
2:04
it's, and it's not your first book, but, holy smokes, man.
2:07
it's a incredible book.
2:09
I, I, I'm a couple chapters in and already, like, I'm hooked
2:13
because, well, I'm a Seahawks fan.
2:14
And it, it's taking a look at the Seahawks Super Bowl season.
2:19
And we're, we're starting to get, we get a little bit behind the scenes
2:23
with the Hard Knocks episodes that come out recently, but, I mean
2:27
this takes you in depth that you have all of the access that you had as a
2:31
reporter, this past season, and you kind of, you get into a lot
2:38
of really what makes this team unique.
2:42
And like I said, we get some of that from the Hard Knocks, but, you, you have so
2:45
much more in-depth as to, what you saw throughout the entire season last year.
2:51
Dugar: Yeah, one of the things about being a beat writer for so long, is
2:55
you just see so much, and it's, it's not always stuff you can report, at least
2:59
not traditionally in, you know, publications that have, like, some high
3:03
journalistic standards for sourcing and what's allowed and what you gotta verify.
3:06
But in a book you can put whatever.
3:07
Not to say I'm in there lying about people, but, you know, that you just have
3:10
a little bit more leeway to talk about an interaction in an elevator, you know?
3:14
Or in the lobby of somewhere, or at the airport, or in, in a hallway, or whatever.
3:19
Stuff that wasn't formally, "Hey, my microphone's in your face.
3:22
Talk."
3:23
Because when you can piece all that together though, the
3:26
picture is fuller, you know?
3:27
And I think Hard Knocks does a good job of getting to that even though they are…
3:31
There's cameras and microphones.
3:32
They're catching so much of stuff that's not formal.
3:34
It's two players talking on the sideline.
3:36
It's, it's a coach just having a quick chat with a player in, in a meeting
3:39
room or Whatever it is, or a fight, like conflict resolution like we saw
3:43
with Derick Hall and Brady Russell, and I think that getting to piece all that
3:47
together as a beat writer using not only from this season, 2024 season as
3:51
well, you know, comparing that with all the research I did on the Legion of
3:54
Boom years to kind of see like what the ingredients of a championship season
3:59
you know, look like even though I wasn't there in person for it in 2013.
4:03
I, I think that kind of informs, you know, why I value like depth so much.
4:08
You know, we're all just the sum of our life story, you know
4:11
at whatever point you enter it.
4:12
So whether you're age 24 like Jackson Smith-Njigba, or you're
4:16
30, whatever, like Jarran Reed, or, you know, you're nearing 40 like
4:19
Mike Macdonald, our past experiences informed our present and can tell us
4:24
a lot about how our future will look.
4:25
And once you go back a little bit before you get forward, it just brings
4:29
to life so many of the moments that you saw, you know, on, on the field.
4:34
I, I think I said this when I did my first book, but my second book
4:37
is kind of inspired the same way.
4:38
I love the way The Last Dance was formatted.
4:40
Mm.
4:40
It's about one season-
4:42
Brandan: Mm-hmm
4:42
Dugar: in theory, basically about 1998, but you get so much of this context
4:46
about Scottie's upbringing and even Steve Kerr and then Phil and obviously
4:49
Michael, that when you do see the big moments, like for instance Steve Kerr
4:54
hitting the big shot, in, in the, in the finals, you know, you, you got
4:58
so much stuff about Steve and his, his dad, getting killed and everything.
5:02
So by the time you, he hits the shot, you're like, "Oh my God," like
5:05
to do saxoph- the horns are going.
5:07
It's slow.
5:08
You're like, "Oh, wow.
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I feel like I was right there with Steve," and I feel the, the gravity
5:13
of the shot going in more so than just, "Oh, I watched the finals.
5:16
I remember him hitting that shot."
5:17
So that's wh- that's kind of been my goal when I get the
5:19
chance to do something long-form.
5:20
It's like, all right, you know Jackson Smith-Njigba makes that catch.
5:24
You know Ernest Jones makes that tackle.
5:25
You know Sam makes that throw.
5:27
But what can I add to that?
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So by the time you get to that point in the, the game or whatever, you're
5:32
like, "Oh, damn, that throw meant a lot more," or I, I feel it a lot more.
5:36
So that's, that's always been my goal.
5:37
I know you said you're only a few chapters in, but I'm hoping that by the time
5:40
you and everyone else gets to the, the end of it, that they kind of feel the
5:43
same way I felt, watching that doc.
5:45
Brandan: Well, one of the guys I do get that sense with of, just from what
5:49
I know so far and, and what I've read so far is Ernest Jones because- Yeah
5:54
you know, he lost his dad early on in the season, and I, I know you have
5:57
quite a few conversations with him that they're a part of that, too.
6:00
And so him dedicating the season to his dad who died of cancer early on and
6:06
then, you know, for him to go through and then win that Super Bowl, like I
6:10
I have to imagine a guy like that, that it, it adds that kind of impact to it.
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Dugar: Yeah, you know, you just see it, and I think I was so
6:18
glad, you know, 'cause the team…
6:20
The reason why I'm glad Hard Knocks did what it did with the team is
6:23
'cause the, the team can control so much of what they release.
6:25
One of probably my favorite piece of content they've ever put out
6:28
is when Ernest Jones got the game ball after the Vikings game that
6:31
they won, like, 26 to nothing.
6:32
And you could see why guys love Ernest, you know, so much.
6:36
He just, like, stopped everything and was like, he took what usually is, like
6:39
a rah-rah moment into being like, "Oh, man, I was down bad, and I had to get
6:43
right with God and get right with y'all and do this for, you know, for y'all."
6:48
To, you know, a- and I just, he's a servant in that way.
6:51
Reminds me of Doug Baldwin in a lot of ways.
6:53
And so getting to talk to Ernest and tell his story, it just brings
6:57
I think, the whole defense to life, not just his own story.
7:00
Because you can see it even in Hard Knocks as well, like, Ernest
7:03
is their, he's their heartbeat.
7:05
You know?
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He, he riles them up or bring, calms them back down.
7:07
Whatever is needed, he's, he sets the temperature, in that way.
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So yeah, e- every convo I had with Ernest, was meaningful for the book.
7:15
I think that's probably the person, without, like, going back and
7:18
fact-checking, I'm pretty sure that's the person I probably quote the most or
7:21
whose notes I went back and viewed the most, is, like, all my convos with Ernest.
7:26
I couldn't wait to talk to him, you know, and when I got let into the locker
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room after they won the Super Bowl.
7:31
He was just, he's just great, you know?
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He really just embodies what it, what a current Seahawk looks like, I would say
7:36
more than Spoon, more than L- Leonard Williams, more than Jarran Reed even.
7:41
It's just like, nah, Ernest Jones, his story tells you the
7:44
story of the 2025 Seahawks.
7:46
Brandan: Oh, there we go.
7:47
Big fan of Ernest Jones, so I, I l- I look forward to that.
7:50
The book is 12 as One: Mike Macdonald, the Seattle Seahawks, and the
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Making of a Super Bowl Champion.
7:56
And, and this idea, Mike, of 12 is 1, it, it frames the entire season
8:01
around a theme, and that's connectivity.
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And that, that title, it comes from Coach Mike's, that 12 is 1 mantra.
8:10
what did you see a- as far as what that phrase actually means, and how did
8:15
it translate from a slogan to the way just players are treated there every day?
8:21
Dugar: Yeah, I think there's just a level of selflessness, that defined
8:25
the way the team went about its business.
8:27
Because football, it's very easy to get caught up in your own individual
8:30
agenda, you know, as an NFL player.
8:32
You know, whether you're on the practice squad, you're at the bottom
8:34
of the roster, you're one of the superstars, like, everyone kinda feels
8:37
like they have something to prove.
8:40
You know, whether you're trying to prove that you are great or that you
8:42
prove that you belong in the league, you prove that you belong on the 53-man
8:45
roster, you prove that you can be an NFL receiver, whatever it is, you know?
8:49
And, I think talking to guys at the bottom of the roster and learning more
8:53
about, like, the ready squad thing was really cool, because I love talking
8:58
to those guys 'cause it's a reminder that to even get to the league and be
9:01
a guy on the practice squad, you were probably that dude your whole life.
9:05
You probably killed Pop Warner.
9:06
You were probably- Yeah… a four-star recruit or whatever.
9:08
You probably are, are in the record books at your college, you know?
9:11
And then you get to the NFL and it's like, "Wow, I'm not even
9:14
good enough to get on the field."
9:15
You know?
9:15
It's like how do you deal with that?
9:17
You know?
9:17
Right.
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And how do the coaches deal with making sure that you never feel like you're
9:21
not good enough to get on the field?
9:22
You just, you, they make you feel like, no, you're gonna get on the
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field, and when you do, we're gonna empower you to be the best version
9:27
of you that got you to the NFL.
9:29
and so I think that selflessness That they got everyone to buy into, from the
9:34
top of the roster in Jackson Spoon to guys like Drake Thomas, to believe, like, "No
9:39
you're all part of this thing equally.
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All of you.
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Even the, the, the 17 guys who are, quote-unquote, practice squad and
9:46
can't play, you are just as much a part of this as a Boye Mafe, as a
9:51
Leonard Williams, as a Charles Cross.
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No matter if you're making $70 million or $700,000, you are one.
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We are, we are one."
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And it sounds great.
10:00
That's very Pop Warner speechy, you know, everyone gets, you know, lemon
10:03
lemon slices and Capri Suns after we win, or after we lose, you know
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on, on a Saturday when we're kids.
10:09
But to get adults to buy into that, despite all the money that guys make
10:13
and the marketing opportunities and the families that they're trying to feed
10:16
and the hometowns they're trying to make proud, I think that's really tough.
10:19
And the way Mike Macdonald got guys to buy into that, guys who were in a
10:22
contract year, guys who were coming off injury, you know, there's
10:26
so many different points in people's lives that you're trying to converge
10:29
to all just be focused on the mission.
10:31
I thought that was really how they got this done, and you saw
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it the way their depth showed up, particularly early in the year.
10:37
There were games where Darian Kendrick was the best player on the field
10:40
and then the next game, it may be D'Anthony Bell making the big plays, and
10:43
then Tory Horton might make the big plays, and then Brandon Peely might get
10:46
a, a, a big play, or Elijah Arroyo or Cody White, like all these guy- Drake Thomas
10:51
might lead them in TFLs one, one game.
10:53
And it's, it's not easy to get all those guys to buy into the, that
10:56
any given game it can be them, and then get the guys at the top of
10:59
the roster to also buy into that.
11:02
Right.
11:03
For Leonard Williams to be like, "I don't need 15 sacks to prove myself.
11:06
If I got six and everybody else got at least one or two or whatever and
11:10
we're winning, I'm okay with that."
11:12
You know?
11:13
That's, I've been around this team, the Seahawks a long, long enough to
11:17
know that they've, not every iteration of the team has operated that way.
11:20
There have been guys who are like, "Yo, I'm trying to get mine.
11:22
If the team wins, that's great too, but like, you know
11:25
football hurts, CTE is real.
11:27
I got a family to feed.
11:28
I need these numbers."
11:29
You know?
11:30
Yeah.
11:30
And, and that's, that's natural too.
11:31
That's human instinct as well.
11:32
I understand that too.
11:33
But to get guys to put that to the side, whether you're Ken
11:36
Walker, who's, you know, was in a contract year, or you're Jareaux
11:39
knowing you're up for an extension.
11:41
Same thing with Spoon and some other guys.
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Like, that was really powerful.
11:44
It's hard.
11:44
it's hard to do that year to year, which I think that scene in Hard Knocks
11:48
where Sherm goes to Mike Macdonald and he's like, "Yo, how did you do that?"
11:52
"Because I watched us not be able to do that.
11:54
How did you get it done?"
11:55
And Mike didn't have a great answer, but the fact that he did do it is what
11:59
I was trying to capture in the book.
12:01
Brandan: Well, yeah, and, I mean, you have that unique perspective of
12:04
being there for the, the Pete Carroll era and then watching the transition.
12:08
The thing for Mike is he doesn't necessarily know how it's done.
12:12
I mean, he- Right… I suppose he could talk to John Schneider
12:15
who's been there the whole time.
12:16
But, like, he's trying to do it his way as the head coach, and
12:21
really, a relatively, well, a brand new head coach, right?
12:24
So, what are some of those things that you saw then and in
12:28
that transition that made that work?
12:33
Dugar: Yeah, I think the way Mike is willing to acknowledge
12:36
what he does not know is important.
12:39
As much as, like, being the guy, you want all the answers.
12:41
You want your players to ask you, "Hey, coach, what do we do if they
12:43
motion this and that, and then this is now the passing strength.
12:46
What do we do?"
12:47
You know?
12:48
Or like, "Hey, we gotta go to Australia for a game.
12:50
How are we gonna handle that?
12:51
We gotta do whatever.
12:53
We're about to play in the Super Bowl, coach.
12:54
What do we do?"
12:55
You wanna make sure you have all the answers.
12:56
Mike Macdonald's very comfortable saying, "Hey, I may not have that answer."
13:00
It's like that scene in The Pursuit of Happyness when they ask him a question
13:03
and Will Smith in the interview is like, "I'm gonna tell you I don't know, but
13:07
I'm also gonna find the answer for you."
13:09
You know?
13:09
And, and that sincerity there, I think, that matters to the players, 'cause you
13:13
might be like, "You know what, Spoon?
13:14
I don't know if they, what happens if they motion the trips against this on this
13:17
down and distance from this, you know?
13:19
But I'll figure it.
13:19
Let me get back to you on Thursday."
13:20
You know what I mean?
13:21
Or, "You know, I don't know, how that circumstance should go.
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I don't know what the head coach would do in this situation.
13:26
Let me consult Leslie Frazier."
13:27
You know, I think hiring Leslie Frazier in, at all was a sign of humility.
13:32
And then the last part is Mike didn't play.
13:34
He played high school ball.
13:36
He didn't play college ball at Georgia.
13:37
He just, he was a decent, like, high school linebacker, I think.
13:40
And so you gotta humble yourself a little bit if you're gonna be
13:43
telling Devon Witherspoon what to do and how to play football.
13:46
You do.
13:47
You just, 'cause you, you're coming from a different place than a Mike Vrabel would
13:51
be, you know, or some of these guys who, who did play and then played really well.
13:54
and so because he's coming into it with that space, but not acting like
13:58
he's a fraud, but no, I'm, I'm in this quest for knowledge just like you guys.
14:02
I'm in this quest to make you guys better.
14:04
I think the way he came at that really got him to establish his
14:08
own standard independent of what Pete Carroll had already set.
14:11
you know, I remember he told me a story once.
14:13
He was like, he was trying to tell Terrell Suggs how to do something, and like, in
14:17
his mind, he was like, "Damn, I'm really telling Terrell Suggs how to do this
14:21
assignment," or whatever it was, and he had to remind himself, "No, no, no.
14:25
I put in the work to be able to Terrell, to tell Terrell Suggs that.
14:28
And also, even though Terrell Suggs, as great as he is, he wants to be coached
14:33
so I gotta have the answers for him."
14:35
And Mike figured that out in Baltimore, and he really put it in application
14:38
when he, when he got to Seattle, because players recognized that
14:42
and wanted to be coached by him.
14:44
it didn't matter that he was replacing someone who, in Pete Carroll
14:47
who not only had success, but had a really healthy culture for a long time.
14:51
I mean, we see the juxtaposition here.
14:53
I think it's really great that they beat the Patriots, you know, for
14:56
like, the story purpose in that Jerod Mayo and Mike Macdonald were hired
15:00
in the same cycle to replace Hall of Fame coaches who had an established
15:05
culture and established way of winning in Bill Belichick and Pete Carroll.
15:08
And Jerod, I b- and they were the two youngest coaches in that
15:11
cycle, as w- two youngest coaches in the league when they got hired.
15:14
Jerod flamed out immediately, and, and understandably so.
15:18
It's hard to replace Bill Belichick.
15:19
It's also hard to replace Pete, and I think the degree of difficulty is
15:23
really heightened in their two stories and their two pasts, and the way
15:26
Mike did it was just by just be you.
15:28
You know, be you, put the work in, and know that you've earned
15:31
the right to be you, and then the players will, will follow.
15:34
So I think there's a ton of examples.
15:35
I put a bunch in the book, but I think that overarching theme of just
15:38
like Mike put the work in, to have the right to tell these guys how
15:43
to the, the culture's gonna be, how they're gonna handle these situations.
15:46
And knowing that he doesn't have all the answers right away, I think that there
15:49
was a lot of power in that, not only from his players, but also the coaches who were
15:52
tasked with also implementing the culture.
15:56
Brandan: Yeah.
15:56
It, it's just, it, it is wild to think, like, especially for a guy like
16:00
well, even Coach Pete, you know.
16:03
Pete Carroll had two different stints as a head coach before he finally, y- before he
16:09
worked it out- Mm… in how he wanted to, organize a team and build a culture.
16:13
And, and even Bill Belichick, you know, he wasn't successful as a
16:16
head coach the first time when he was hired on with the Browns.
16:19
And so, yeah, to, to
16:24
take all, just considering all that, for him to be able to come in and be
16:29
able to make that transition so smoothly that, you know, he ends up winning a
16:32
Super Bowl in his sophomore season, it, it's, it's wild, Mike.
16:37
Dugar: Yeah, and I think- While I don't think age is that much of a
16:42
barrier in terms of connecting with players, you know, I think the
16:45
scene, with Nick Emmanwori in Hard Knocks was really powerful when they
16:49
both kind of come to the conclusion like, "Oh wow, you keep receipts from
16:52
people say things about you too, Coach?
16:53
I didn't know that.
16:55
I do too.
16:56
Let's go kill people together," you know?
16:57
but Pete also was able to relate to the players, you know, despite
17:00
being the oldest coach in the league.
17:02
I do think another component for Mike that worked in his favor was, and I
17:06
and I got Ernest Jones and some others to speak to this around Super Bowl
17:09
time, is his, h- where he was in life.
17:11
You know, Mike Macdonald I believe is 39, now, and that's not too
17:16
much older than some of these guys.
17:17
But beyond the age part, like Mike's son Jack was born I think
17:20
in December of his first season.
17:23
Stephanie's pregnant again.
17:25
I don't know if they announced the gender, but like the fact that he's
17:29
changing diapers and stuff just the same way a lot of these guys on the team are.
17:33
Like I'm sure you follow a lot of the players and stuff on social media.
17:35
Half the damn team had a baby or got married- Uh-huh… you
17:38
know, this, this off season.
17:39
It was, it was nuts.
17:40
It was very clear what everyone was doing, in the off season or at least
17:43
planning to do in terms of these weddings.
17:45
So with the fact that Mike's only been married for to Steph for a few years
17:50
and then, you know, his son Jack is so small, he's going through a lot of
17:53
that same stuff too, like balancing the responsibilities of being a father, the
17:57
joy of seeing the little one on the field after you win a game or lose a game or
18:02
whatever it is, and the fact that they can kind of bond in that away from football.
18:06
I do, I do know that the players saw something in that as well.
18:09
It's not that they saw him necessarily as equals, like you're still the authority
18:12
figure in the building, but like Ernest Jones talked about that a- as well.
18:16
It's like, yeah, my son, Ernest V is only a few months
18:20
older than Jack, you know?
18:21
Like I'm, he's been married to his wife Tyra for only a little bit more
18:24
time, little bit less time than Mike's been married to Steph, you know?
18:28
And they can just talk about that.
18:29
Oh your son just started walking in?
18:30
How many teeth your kid got?
18:31
Does your kid watch this on YouTube?
18:33
Blah, blah, blah.
18:33
Does your kid sleep?
18:34
Your, oh your kid threw up on you this morning too?
18:36
That's cra- You know?
18:36
Like that stuff, it all matters and it helps you build that connectivity.
18:40
It's just one of the many ways you can do that.
18:42
I do think that contributed maybe to the way he connected with guys too.
18:46
That's a little different than, than Pete.
18:48
You know, Pete got grandkids that are in high school right now
18:50
I'm pretty sure, whereas, yeah, Mike was a little different.
18:53
It's a small thing, but when you're trying to build, like see that we're all one-
18:57
Brandan: Yeah
18:57
… Dugar: being at the same point in life as some of these guys, it
18:59
it, it contributes to that as well.
19:01
Brandan: Yeah.
19:01
And, and you talk about how connectivity is important, but I, I have to imagine
19:06
like on other teams, like yeah, they're, they're all dads and but you, you hear
19:10
guys like Cooper Kupp talk about the team being connected in a way that's
19:15
different than anywhere that he's been.
19:17
And, you know, he was on a Super Bowl winning team with the Rams.
19:19
And so for him to come from the Rams, come to Seattle, and see that
19:24
connectivity piece, but see it that, that it's different than anywhere that
19:29
he's been before, whether it's, you know, Eastern Washington or, or
19:32
LA, how- How did that, h-hit him and how did you approach that with him?
19:43
Dugar: yeah, that's a, that's a good question.
19:45
oh, we're chopping up a little bit.
19:46
You still got me?
19:47
Brandan: I gotcha.
19:48
Dugar: Yep.
19:49
Okay, sorry.
19:49
that's a great question.
19:51
I'm glad you brought that up.
19:52
And I think the v- I talked to the veterans last year about that quite a bit
19:55
'cause I was fascinated by the, the people who weren't as insulated, you know, like
19:59
D Law, who had been somewhere for a while.
20:01
Jarran Reed, who left and came back, had been in Green
20:03
Bay, had been in Kansas City.
20:04
Leonard Williams, who had been on the two New York teams.
20:06
Julian Love, who had been in New York.
20:09
And what they, what they spoke to in the difference is, one, the
20:12
team was really good, you know?
20:13
Julian and Leo were very candid about the fact that like, "Yeah, we made
20:16
the playoffs in 2022" like, we probably shouldn't have, with the Giants, you know?
20:21
And they, they weren't that good.
20:23
And they won a game in the playoffs a- as well before getting
20:25
destroyed by the, the Eagles.
20:27
But what those veterans spoke to generally was the selflessness, you know?
20:32
I remember talking to D Law about how D Hall and Boye Mafe
20:36
approached like their sack totals.
20:38
I think those guys might've combined for, what, three or four sacks last
20:40
year, D Hall and, and Boye Mafe.
20:42
But they, what, signed contracts that combined are for nearly $100
20:45
million, Right… this off season.
20:46
And there was no guarantee that they were gonna do that.
20:48
But D Law saw, just like I've seen, guys care about them sack numbers, who
20:52
are like, "Damn this gap integrity.
20:54
I need to get to the quarterback, yo.
20:55
I'm trying to get paid."
20:56
And D Hall and Boye legitimately did not operate that way, and I saw it, and
21:00
I'm glad that D Law spoke to it too.
21:03
Being like, "Yo, those guys really are focused on our mission."
21:06
And I think that's very important that the veterans could speak to
21:09
that, but also give these guys an example of how to be selfless as well.
21:13
And I think that's where I'm glad you brought up Cooper Kupp.
21:15
'Cause Cooper Kupp was just like, "Guys."
21:18
I think that really stood out when they played the Rams.
21:20
Cooper Kupp went out of his way to be like, "This is, this is not about me."
21:25
Right.
21:25
You know what I'm saying?
21:26
Like I, he, he said, I, I quoted this in the book too, "It would
21:29
be a disservice to me, or to my teammates, to go out there and act
21:33
like my story is any more important than anybody else's story on Sunday.
21:37
This story, this story is about the Seahawks going to beat the Rams."
21:40
I believe he was talking about this before the NFC championship game.
21:43
"This story is not Cooper Kupp getting revenge against the team that cut him.
21:46
No, I'm 1 of 53 guys who has a story, you know?
21:50
And they all matter to the mission."
21:51
And I, and not only did he say that, he lived that every day.
21:55
And so whether it was a D Law or a Leonard Williams chasing down Jayden
22:00
Daniels on fourth and a mile, in the Commander's game being like, "Hey guys
22:04
I'm in year whatever the hell, and I'm sprinting my ass off on fourth down.
22:08
That's the standard here."
22:09
Or Cooper Kupp like, "Yo, I don't care how many catches I had.
22:12
Obviously I want the ball, but I'm here to do my job to the best of my
22:14
ability, 'cause that's the mission.
22:16
That's the standard here."
22:17
Those guys set the tone, and I think the guys followed them below them.
22:21
Like if Cooper Kupp's not complaining about his targets, who is Derek
22:25
Young to complain about his?
22:26
You know what I mean?
22:28
Sure.
22:28
And, and not to say that Derek was complaining, but like if D
22:31
if D Law's bought in, who are you, Derick Hall, to not be bought in?
22:34
You know what I mean?
22:35
If you're, if you see Leo running down because that's the
22:39
standard to go chase the ball.
22:41
If you're Brandon Peely, well, get your ass, go chase the ball.
22:44
That's, or you're Byron Murphy, go chase the ball.
22:46
That's the standard.
22:47
And the veterans who have been around, buying into that, letting everybody
22:51
know it was different, setting an example, and then highlighting the
22:54
guys who were following the example, I thought was also a big part when I
22:58
was revisiting the season as, as well.
23:00
'Cause you need that.
23:00
I know every team in the off-season's like, "Let's get younger, let's
23:02
get cheaper, let's get faster."
23:04
That's great.
23:05
You need vets.
23:07
Vets set the tone.
23:08
They really set the tone for the whole, the whole thing, because these young
23:11
bucks don't know what they don't know.
23:13
They're following the vets who teach them how to take care of their
23:15
bodies, how to conduct themselves in the media, how to behave on, in big
23:18
moments, how to behave on a day-to-day.
23:21
and so I think the, the fact that they had these guys who had been
23:24
around, who had been on bad teams and been on good teams, enforcing the
23:29
culture, oh, that was, that was just as important as drafting Grey Zabel.
23:32
That was just as important as drafting Nick Emmanwori and, and doing
23:36
other, some of the, and signing Sam, some of these other, these great
23:39
moves that they made Cooper Kupp's presence there was just as important.
23:44
Jarran Reed's presence was just as important.
23:46
The D Law signing, for his presence alone, was just as important.
23:49
See, I'm glad you brought up those veterans.
23:51
Brandan: Yeah.
23:51
Well, another one of those veterans is Julian Love, and he
23:54
wrote the forward to the book.
23:55
Yeah.
23:56
And he told, he told the stor- Shout out Julian.
23:58
He told a story there that I think Seahawks fans would get a kick of.
24:01
Had, had Julian ever written, anything, before doing the forward?
24:05
I
24:06
Dugar: I, I don't know.
24:07
I, I knew that I was stereotyping a little bit through his, his alma mater.
24:12
I was like, "Okay, the Notre Dame guy can probably write," you know?
24:14
So I, I was like, "Let me just start there."
24:16
Uh-huh… and then also just my conversations with Julian, his
24:20
perspective is so good, and he understands how the power of examples.
24:25
So, like, he'll tell me something.
24:26
for instance, he, he's the first person to reveal to me that they
24:30
have the saying, "High-powered [bleep]."
24:31
He told me that in the off-season, and I was like, "Okay, what is that?"
24:34
And I talk about our conversation of him explaining to me what is that
24:38
and he gives me all these examples.
24:39
I throw some back at him, and, like, he understands the power of an
24:42
example explaining the, the concept.
24:45
Mm.
24:45
Whether it's 12 is 1, chasing edges, he always finds an
24:49
example to help illustrate that.
24:50
So I was like, "Okay, how will he illustrate?
24:53
What would the example he use for the, for the book?"
24:55
I forget what the prompt I gave him was, but I, he, he just nailed it.
24:59
He, he just really captured it, and I'll tell you this too.
25:02
I was so…
25:03
I was beating myself up 'cause I got to the end of the book, I'm writing
25:06
it, and I'm like, "Damn, I don't have enough about shadow boxing in here."
25:10
Like, it was such a big thing.
25:11
I was like, "Where do I put it?"
25:12
You know?
25:13
Like, "How do I squeeze that in?"
25:15
And then I got Julian's forward after I finished everything
25:18
else, and, lo and behold, you know, he mentions shadow boxing.
25:21
I'm like, "Oh, see?
25:22
I, I knew I could trust Julian."
25:24
Now it's in the front of the book.
25:25
'Cause otherwise, there wasn't that many mentions of shadow boxing
25:28
till the end, and I was like, "That just doesn't feel right."
25:30
But I only had nine weeks to do the book.
25:32
There's only so much rearranging you do, you know- Right… right
25:34
before the deadline.
25:35
So I was like, "I hope…"
25:37
You know, and then Julian sent that in, and I was like, "Oh, yeah
25:39
my guy Julian Love," you know?
25:41
Yeah.
25:41
And, and he killed it.
25:42
Not just 'cause he mentioned shadow boxing, but as, as you read, like
25:45
he really captured the essence of the team from a player's perspective
25:48
and I, I really appreciated that.
25:50
Brandan: Okay, I've heard some of these sayings, like 12 is 1.
25:52
I haven't heard high-powered [bleep].
25:53
What's that about?
25:55
Dugar: yeah, I dedicated I think, the Spoon chapter from
25:58
week 12, I wanna say, to that.
26:01
But really it's just, it's the moments that make a difference
26:05
that aren't always quantifiable.
26:08
And, two that came to mind once Julian said it to me and explained
26:12
it, that I was, "Okay, to make sure I understand, would that be like how
26:16
Spoon gave the lead block to Derick Hall on the scoop and score against
26:21
the Falcons in the 2024 season?"
26:23
He was like, "Exactly."
26:24
There's nothing that would ever quantify that Spoon is part of
26:28
the reason we scored on that play.
26:29
Mm-hmm.
26:30
If he doesn't make that block, I think on, whoever the left tackle was
26:33
for the Falcons at the time, D Hall probably just gets pushed out of bounds.
26:37
Now, if we had a s- strip sack still, but we don't have a, a scoop and score.
26:41
That's high-powered [bleep], that effort.
26:43
You can't draw that up.
26:44
We're not, we can't really always practice that.
26:46
But Spoon did it, and he d- he has a ton of plays like that, you know?
26:50
And the way he leads the, has the lead block for Coby Bryant's pick six
26:53
in 2024 as well, is the same thing th- against, Arizona, high-powered [bleep].
26:59
So, but none of that y- doesn't show up on Spoon's stats, it
27:02
doesn't help him get All-Pro.
27:04
But in the film room, they're like, "That's us.
27:06
That's how we play."
27:07
Yeah.
27:07
and there's tons of examples as well, but like, when S- when Julian said that
27:11
to me and I was able to like immediately see it and then he gave me a couple more
27:15
examples, I was like, "Okay, we're here."
27:18
And so, yeah, when he was able to kinda capture the essence of the team
27:21
you know, the same thing I told Doug Baldwin when he wrote the forward for my
27:23
first book was like, "Just tell me what it felt like to be in that culture."
27:27
And then that's what, what Doug wrote is what he came up with, and Julian
27:30
was the same thing, was like, "Just tell me what, what it felt like
27:33
to be connected with these guys."
27:34
A- and that's what he came up with.
27:35
And they both killed it.
27:37
shout to Julian, shout to Doug.
27:38
They both did a great job.
27:39
Brandan: Yeah.
27:40
It, it's really good.
27:40
And, so another term that comes up in the book, Mike, is the defense
27:45
operating with earned arrogance.
27:47
Yeah.
27:47
And, part of that was knowing that, you know, they were gonna
27:51
win the Super Bowl before it started.
27:52
that- Mm.
27:53
So how did Coach Macdonald build that level of collective confidence?
27:58
Is it, i- i- does having a term for it get you there?
28:01
Or, or what else goes into it?
28:04
Dugar: I think you get there by focusing on the process
28:07
and focusing on yourself.
28:09
If you get too caught up in whatever the other team is doing, whatever the other
28:12
team is saying, then you can get lost.
28:16
Focus on, all right, I'm the best.
28:18
Like, if I'm a Uchenna Nwosu, I'm gonna be the best version
28:21
of Chenna, whatever that means.
28:23
If that's a lot of setting edges today, if that's a lot of, like, winning my
28:27
one-on-one with the left tackle today, if that's a lot of, like, running really
28:31
good games so Leonard can loop around a lot because we see something on film
28:34
just be the best version of that today.
28:37
If that's just even in practice, that's Wednesday, be the best version of that.
28:40
Thursday, we might be working on something else, red zone
28:43
third down, goal line, whatever.
28:45
Be that version of you.
28:47
Be the best version of you.
28:48
When you do that, and we all do that, whoever we're playing, wherever we're
28:53
playing, whatever time of day we're playing, whatever day of the week
28:56
we're playing, which is pertinent this year, where they're playing
28:58
on, like, five different days of the week, we're gonna probably win.
29:02
We're gonna probably- we're gonna have a good shot if nothing else.
29:05
And you look at the three games they lost last year, they were what?
29:07
By a combined nine points.
29:09
So even when we lose, chances are we were in the fight.
29:12
They were never not in the fight.
29:14
And because its focus is on that, it's easy for the guys to buy in without
29:20
worrying about how the end looks.
29:21
Of course, everyone wants to win the Super Bowl, but you can't just every
29:24
day go, "One, two, three, Super Bowl."
29:26
I think that's bad process.
29:27
you know, like Mike Macdonald's speech, remember the one they put
29:30
together in like the YouTube hype video before the, title game?
29:34
Right.
29:34
Listen to what Mike is saying.
29:35
I think the-- too much focus was on just the fact that he called it shot.
29:39
But Listen to what he's saying about how the other team is gonna view them.
29:44
They know that we're not gonna quit.
29:46
They know that we're, we're gonna fight.
29:49
They know that we're like that.
29:50
You know?
29:50
It's like that's what you focus on, that you're, that you're relentless
29:54
that you're, that you, you're a team that's willing to fight.
29:56
Don't worry about whether you're the highest scoring offense or the, or
29:59
the best scoring defense, you have the best special teams, you've got the best
30:02
receiver, you got the best quarterback.
30:04
Forget all that.
30:05
The other team needs to go into that fight knowing that, "Trying to knock this dude
30:08
down is gonna take everything I got."
30:10
And when you focus on that, no matter who you're fighting, you
30:13
you're, you're probably gonna have a shot, and more likely than not
30:15
you're not gonna get knocked down.
30:17
and so his, his emphasis on that from the beginning I think was really
30:20
important, which is why they were like, "Whether we're playing the Saints in week
30:23
three or the Patriots in the Super Bowl, if we be us, this might be built to last."
30:27
You know?
30:27
They, and they genuinely felt that, with all due respect to the opponent, they were
30:31
like, "They don't really matter that much.
30:34
Our job is to just whoop ass, 'cause the standard here is whooping ass."
30:38
You know?
30:38
So I think that was…
30:39
It's, it's hard to do that without being, sounding arrogant, and we see other
30:42
coaches try to deliver that message.
30:44
I think Ben Johnson this year is, like, doing the other version of it
30:48
which is, like, you know, he said, "I wanna have the best offense ever."
30:51
He's like, "I know how much the Broncos scored in 2013.
30:54
Let's be better than that."
30:55
And it's like if I was Ben, if I was advising him, I was like, "I
30:57
don't know if I would focus on the quantifiable part of that."
31:00
Right.
31:01
Like, be the best offense the 2026 Bears can be, and let
31:04
the rest take care of itself.
31:05
That would be my advice to him.
31:07
Now, i- we saying that now in September, whatever.
31:09
If they end up scoring 38 points a game, then maybe it's like that's
31:12
why they pay Ben the big bucks.
31:13
But I think Mike Macdonald noticeably kind of goes the other way with his motivation.
31:17
"Let's just focus on being the best defense, whatever that looks like.
31:20
That's allowing 14 points, 17 points, 18 points.
31:23
Let's just be the best version of us and the points will take care of themselves."
31:26
That when you get to that way, when you behave that way, yeah, you're
31:29
gonna go in the Super Bowl saying, "Well, their left guard and their left
31:31
tackle can't block, so let's go kick their ass a- and not let them score."
31:35
Like, that's basically how they felt going into the game, not because
31:37
they had anything against Will Campbell and the, the left guard.
31:40
It was just like, "If we do us, they won't block us."
31:43
Right.
31:44
And, and they were right
31:46
Brandan: He's Michael-Shawn Dugar.
31:47
The book is Twelve as One: Mike Macdonald, the Seattle Seahawks, and
31:51
the Making of a Super Bowl Champion.
31:53
You can follow Mike out on X @MikeDugar, and, I saw you out on X, Mike
32:00
that, that you've, you've got some offers for folks that, if they want
32:03
a signed copy they can get one from you or, I, I'm sure there's plenty other
32:07
avenues of ways to find the book too.
32:10
Dugar: Yeah, it's available wherever books are sold online.
32:12
Go to Amazon, go to Barnes & Noble.
32:14
I think it's, also you can go straight to the publisher, Triumph Books
32:18
and, and just order one from there.
32:20
But yeah, if you want a signed copy just DM me.
32:23
I already have about, have about 100 or so in, in stock, also
32:27
accounting for my friends and family copies that I give my mom, you know
32:31
grandparents and stuff like that.
32:32
Should have about 100 for everyone else.
32:35
and first come, first served.
32:37
Shoot me a message, I'll sign it for you.
32:40
I'll make one of many trips to the, the nearest post office and I'll get it mailed
32:44
to you, wherever you are in the world.
32:46
If the post office goes there, I'll get it to you.
32:49
You know, that's Australia, that's Germany, that's
32:52
Finland, Scotland, wherever.
32:54
I, I've shipped books pretty much everywhere, everywhere
32:57
that they, they'll go.
32:58
France and everything.
32:59
So just shoot me a message in a DM.
33:01
I'll let you know the process, the charges and everything, and
33:04
I'll make sure you get a book.
33:06
Brandan: So are we taking the, the coach Mike Macdonald approach with this, or
33:10
are we taking the, Coach Ben Johnson approach with this being the greatest
33:15
selling Seahawks book of all time?
33:16
Dugar: Yeah, see, that's…
33:17
And, and honestly, no, it's, it's funny, 'cause that's kinda how I
33:20
thought about it, too, 'cause, you know, you wanna be, like, a New York
33:22
Times Best Seller and, and all that stuff, and it's like, you know what?
33:25
I'm about to just write the best book that I can write that my kids will
33:30
be proud of their dad having done.
33:32
You know, I wrote my first book, it came out when my daughter
33:35
was, I think, just had turned two.
33:38
and then I wrote this book, like, while I was, taking care
33:42
of my son, who was anywhere from like five months to eight months
33:45
in the window that I wrote this.
33:46
And it's like they're, I mention both of them in the, in the
33:49
dedications in the opening.
33:50
And it's like, no matter what, just write the best book you can, and then
33:54
when you get older and your kids are old enough to read and, you know, their
33:57
dad's an author and they wanna be a…
34:00
Is it something they were proud that you did?
34:01
And, you know, I can't determine that now.
34:03
You know, my son can't read.
34:04
He likes to put his mouth on the cover of the book.
34:07
but he can't read it quite yet.
34:08
But when he gets older, hopefully my son reads it, and my daughter as
34:12
well, and like, "All right, cool.
34:13
Dad did that?
34:14
That's pretty cool."
34:15
As, as long as I get that, I could sell one copy, I could sell 1,000
34:18
I could sell a million copies.
34:19
That, that'll be the thing that I'll be most proud of.
34:22
Well- And if the fans like it, of course.
34:23
I want the fans to enjoy it and it serve kind of like a time capsule for
34:27
one of the greatest- Fans are gonna love this, Mike… seasons in Seahawks
34:29
Brandan: history.
34:29
It's, it's a Seahawks book, and we win the Super Bowl in it.
34:32
Like, what
34:34
… Dugar: The ending is great.
34:35
You know?
34:36
it- spoiler, they win, yeah.
34:37
But yeah, so hopefully, hopefully they fall in love with the process
34:40
too, along the way.
34:43
Brandan: Well, definitely go check it out and make sure you follow Mike out on X.
34:46
Mike, really appreciate you coming on the show and making time, and
34:50
and really enjoyed the book as well.
34:52
Dugar: Aw, thank you so much.
34:53
Thank you so much for having me.
34:54
Brandan: And I think with that, there's only one thing left to say.
34:57
Go Hawks.