Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Spider-Noir with Costume Designer, Trayce Gigi Field - The Costume House with Spencer Williams

Transcript

Spider-Noir with Costume Designer, Trayce Gigi Field - The Costume House with Spencer Williams · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:13
I could not be more excited today.
0:16
I'm joined by one of my dearest friends who is here with a brand
0:20
new series and she's just absolutely killing it.
0:23
Right now. The show is killing it.
0:26
From Spider Noir on Prime Video. Please welcome Tracy GG Field.
0:32
Hey, Tracy. Thanks for having me.
0:35
I'm so excited to see you, Spencer.
0:37
I'm so excited to see you too. It's been a minute.
0:40
What the heck? Oh, I mean, well, I was gone for
0:43
a while out of the country, and now I'm back and so, yeah, so
0:47
here I am. I mean, you just been doing like
0:49
films and shows and stuff though.
0:51
I mean, you know, we'll get into it.
0:54
Yes, and I, I was away shooting Spaceballs too in in Sydney, but
0:59
now I'm back home and now we get.
1:02
To I'm so proud of you and so happy.
1:06
Well, I mean, I'm in that same vein.
1:09
Let's just take a moment here. I mean, I just want to say I
1:11
mean I'm just so beyond happy for you.
1:14
I mean, I just can't help but feel like we've been manifesting
1:19
projects like Spider Noir for you and just watching this
1:24
series and seeing this work and seeing you and you know, these
1:28
interviews and all these videos and videos of you and Nicholas
1:31
Cage talking about your costumes and these crazy shout outs.
1:36
I just, I don't know, I'm just so crazy proud of you, Tracy.
1:39
I just feel like we've been talking about a project just
1:42
like this to come along the way. And then we have Spaceballs
1:45
coming up. I mean, just how are you
1:46
feeling? This is ain't crazy, Tracy.
1:49
I didn't think it would be. I mean, I knew it would be
1:51
coming, but to happen like I don't know what it was like one
1:54
or two years ago we were having these conversations that like
1:57
it's now, it's happening now. It is so.
2:00
I mean, you kind of have to tell the story, right?
2:02
So I was on your podcast a while ago.
2:07
It was like, what, maybe two years ago?
2:09
Something like that maybe? It was Poker Face, So what, two
2:12
years ago? Years ago and you asked me what
2:16
my dream job would be, my dream project, and I said I would love
2:20
to do something sci-fi and I would love to do something
2:22
period. And magically Spider Noir is
2:27
both of those things. So I feel like for us, having
2:31
that conversation and putting it into like the universe, into the
2:35
universe, like totally like made it come my way.
2:38
So I'm so excited. So thanks for having that
2:40
conversation with me because I feel like it really did manifest
2:43
itself. Yeah, I mean, it was gonna
2:45
happen either way. But you know, I'm so excited for
2:48
you. I'm so proud, and I know
2:50
everyone's so excited. And it was such a great show,
2:52
too. I mean, it was so good.
2:54
The costumes are great. So you're killing it.
2:56
I'm so excited to get into all of it.
2:58
Thank you. So many costumes to get into.
3:00
So we gotta get into it. Let's do it.
3:04
So let's get into the series as we have a lot of costumes to get
3:06
into. But first, I would love to hear
3:09
about your collaboration with Co showrunner and writer Oren
3:12
Uziel, cuz I know that a lot went into this series.
3:16
There we're talking about black and white and research and
3:19
working with these huge actors. There's a lot going on here, so
3:22
let's start with the beginning and talking to your showrunner.
3:25
Well, obviously I had to have the meeting first.
3:28
You know, they met quite a few costume designers and I pitched
3:31
on my whole deck of like what I was thinking.
3:34
And a lot of those initial thoughts ended up actually in
3:38
the, in the show itself, which is pretty cool.
3:42
And just Oren as a whole, like he is a collaborator first and
3:48
foremost. And he you can pitch him ideas.
3:50
It's not like his way or the highway.
3:53
It's like we are all A-Team between myself, him, our
3:57
production designer, Warren, our DP Darren, like we're all such a
4:01
team and, and hair makeup as well.
4:03
Like we working with Oren is a dream.
4:07
He's like your dream showrunner because he lets you run with
4:11
your ideas. He he lets you do your job.
4:14
And you know, not every showrunner is like that.
4:17
And so, you know, just for him to be, he's hands on, but hands
4:21
off. And, and I hope that makes
4:23
sense. Like he really is invested in
4:24
every single thing. And yes, there are meetings and
4:27
there is like, you know, having conversations about what's right
4:30
and what's not working. But really, he's so awesome
4:34
because he lets he lets us creative folks do our job.
4:39
So thank you, Warren. Yeah, thank.
4:42
Thank you. And there's a lot of creative
4:44
things that we're going to have to talk about, but let's start
4:46
with the noir of it all. Spider Noir takes place in 1930s
4:51
New York. And personally, I love the noir
4:53
drama genre as it just gives me so much visual satisfaction.
4:59
Stark high contrast shadows, chain smoking, heavy rain
5:05
drinking, Humphrey Bogart. I would just love to hear about
5:10
your research and preparation for Spider Noir.
5:13
And just in that same vein, how much did the comic books play a
5:16
role in your process? I mean, were you watching noir
5:18
movies? I was just listening to old
5:22
records. I, I don't know, like how do you
5:24
get in the same in that mindset? OK, to get into the spider noir
5:30
mindset, basically I watched so many newer films, right?
5:36
And you can go down like a rabbit hole.
5:38
I mean it was like 2 days of like watching various films not
5:44
only for like the performance, but visually.
5:47
Like I needed to understand like how the light reflect, like, you
5:50
know, like you said, like light, just lighting in general,
5:53
contrast and patterns. And then, you know, I also did a
5:58
bunch of research just in terms of in general, like history, you
6:02
know, so I took a lot of the 1930s, like glamour stars, you
6:07
know, Hollywood glamour actresses and kind of was
6:11
inspired by that. Like Marlena Dietrich was one of
6:16
our, you know, what was somebody I really aspired to have that
6:20
kind of look and feel. I also did this thing where
6:25
there were a bunch of paper doll books from the 1930s and I got a
6:30
lot of inspiration from there. They had like these couture,
6:34
like couture books, like, you know, paper dolls that were
6:37
their their dresses or their outfits were based off of like
6:41
couture house looks. And so Schiaparelli and I mean,
6:45
there were so many, there's some that don't even exist anymore.
6:48
So that was also like a different sort of inspiration,
6:54
obviously, Humphrey Bogart for Nicolas Cage.
6:58
Yeah. I mean, and yeah.
7:01
So that I think that's really like, what was important to me
7:04
was like, it was a heightened state of 1930s, but it really
7:07
needed to like, have that comic book feel.
7:09
And I feel like when you watch it in black and white, it feels
7:12
like a comic book that is like come to life.
7:14
And that's literally was my whole goal.
7:16
Like, for me, the fans are like the most important.
7:19
And so I really wanted the fans to understand the connect tissue
7:25
between the villains and between, you know, Spider Noir
7:28
himself. And so I think that was
7:31
something that really like drove me.
7:33
And it doesn't take a genius to figure out that comic book
7:36
superheroes and noir have very different aesthetics.
7:43
And you were tasked with combining the two, then came to
7:46
add a challenge of filming for both black and white and color.
7:50
Yes. So at what point in the process
7:52
did you find this out and how were you able to get this done?
7:56
I feel like the black and white filter on your phone theory that
7:59
costume designers always tell me about probably didn't do the
8:02
trick this time because now we're doing it all the time,
8:05
yes. OK, so this is a great story.
8:09
I think that, you know, the biggest curveball of the entire
8:14
show was you sign on to do a black and white show.
8:17
You're so excited. I do all this research, research
8:19
black and white, like what works?
8:21
What doesn't work with colors, with fabrics, patterns, and and
8:25
then about two weeks in, I get a phone call saying, oh, so we're
8:29
gonna shoot it in color as well. So not only does everything need
8:32
to work in black and white, but it also needs to work in color.
8:36
That's kind. Of small, tiny little heart
8:40
attack. It was accurate.
8:43
I was like Oh my goodness, OK, so I got to figure this out.
8:47
I got to figure this out What what was great was that like the
8:50
production designer and Warren and our DP Darren, we all kind
8:56
of just sat together and Darren explained to us like what his
9:01
idea of like what he wanted to do in order to achieve this.
9:04
And so there we used a lens, it was a Lutz lens.
9:07
And so everything, there was so much testing.
9:10
So everything needed to be filtered through this lens
9:14
essentially. So we created 1000 pieces and
9:20
every single fabric and notion needed to be tested by this
9:24
lens. And so we had cameras that
9:28
production actually supplied for us that had this lens in it, so
9:32
we could see what was working and what was not.
9:34
And we also had to do it in different times of like the day
9:39
terms of like daylight and, and night time.
9:42
And then we also needed to see what it would work like indoors
9:46
because if we're on a stage, So to say that it was a challenge
9:51
is kind of a that's, that's like an understatement.
9:55
Like it was a huge challenge, but I feel like I learned so
9:58
much. And so do you.
9:59
The AC DS, Daniel and Maddie and and Ben, who was also helping us
10:04
out, and Valentina, the customers who also had to deal
10:07
with this lens. Like we all felt across the
10:09
board that we'd learned a new skill.
10:11
So as traumatizing as it might have been, it ended up being
10:17
like such an education. So yeah, thanks.
10:21
But you know, I'm just so happy that we were able to like figure
10:25
it out because at first we were like, oh, this isn't showing up
10:28
or this isn't working at like we thought it would.
10:31
But the contrasting prints and the making sure that like if I
10:36
needed a fabric to reflect light, I, I had to find like
10:40
certain types of fabric. I, I just feel like, I mean, I
10:43
don't know, I'm so excited and like my energy.
10:45
So like because we were able to achieve it.
10:48
Yeah, it was. I mean, it's such a education.
10:51
Even I once I realized that you could flip between color and
10:54
black and white, like immediately once I realized I
10:57
had that tool, I was a monster. I mean, immediately I was
11:01
flipping back and forth from like every costume just to be
11:04
like, what is that gonna look like in black and white?
11:07
And suddenly I was like, what's that going to look like in
11:09
color? Like every costume?
11:10
I was a monster, just like in my own education.
11:13
It was like I couldn't stop. It was fun actually like to see
11:17
like how different colors and you know, we'll talk about like
11:20
what did the green and rust dress look like in black and
11:23
white? And I just can't even imagine
11:24
like seeing that in real life and be like, well, what would
11:26
that look like? You know, it's it was a lot of
11:28
fun. So it adds a whole different
11:30
layer to this project. I can imagine such a it's it's
11:34
own challenge it. Was it was it was probably the
11:37
biggest challenge. And that's saying a lot because
11:39
I had to create, you know, Spider Noir, the first, you
11:43
know, the first live super suit for that character, you know, no
11:47
big deal. And then, you know, being able
11:50
to, you know, mix the 1930s with the comic book feel like, yeah,
11:53
OK, that's no big. I mean, you know, those are two
11:56
huge things. But then on top of that, having
11:59
to achieve the black and white in color versions at the same
12:03
time was was probably, like I said, so crazy.
12:07
It was such a challenge. Yeah, that that's a whole other
12:10
thing. And then we also have Nicholas
12:11
Cage, who is moving into his first TV series at this point
12:16
playing our leading man Ben Riley, a down on his like
12:19
private investigator. Now, I know Nicholas Cage is a
12:23
big cinephile, so I have to believe that there was a lot of
12:27
reference and storytelling in his detective costumes.
12:32
I mean, again, mostly it was it was Humphrey Bogart.
12:35
We used Jack Hustons grandfather's film, which was
12:42
the Maltese Falcon as as kind of like a map of how we would
12:48
design the like the production design, like his office and sort
12:52
of like the feel of like Ben Riley.
12:54
And then obviously Humphrey Bogart was a big one for Nick.
13:02
Like he when we sat down and had these conversations like that
13:06
was the first, that was the first reference that we actually
13:09
talked about and it felt like the most right and real.
13:13
So as you can tell, like in Ben's costumes, nothing's new.
13:18
You know, he's had all of his like, you know, he has one
13:21
trench coat, he has a couple of suits that we rotate.
13:24
He has a couple of dress shirts and I think he has like 4 ties,
13:27
you know what I mean? And we just called Mitch, Mitch
13:29
and match as we go. You can tell that like his suit
13:34
is sort of pulling in the front a little bit.
13:36
It's nothing fits like really well.
13:38
And so, you know, that was a combination of sometimes Bogart
13:41
looked like that in various films, but also our character,
13:45
like you said, he's like kind of down and out.
13:46
He's like giving up on life. You know, he's just like kind of
13:49
going through the motions. And so we wanted to reflect that
13:54
in his clothing. Right.
13:56
And I just have to ask you, I mean, working with the Nicolas
13:59
Cage, I mean, this is I, I was super excited for you when I
14:03
heard about, but he's such a cool guy.
14:04
I have to imagine this was a fun collaboration.
14:07
I cannot say enough good things about Dick.
14:10
Like not only is he awesome and he can literally talk about
14:15
anything, he is so smart. I also think that he has a
14:19
photogenic memory because I feel like he memorized the entire
14:22
script and sometimes when actors would like forget the their
14:25
lines, like huge monologues, he would be able to like feed them
14:29
the line. I was like mesmerized and as far
14:34
as like the clothes go, he couldn't have been more
14:36
complimentary. Like he knew that we were
14:38
building a world, right? Like the clothes were were were
14:41
part of like the visual storytelling.
14:43
We were creating a world with like production design,
14:45
obviously and, and RDP, but he just really immersed himself in
14:51
that. And we had multiple
14:53
conversations about, you know, about Ben Riley's clothing.
14:58
You know, I have another good story about our first fitting.
15:01
As you can tell, I'm a little high energy and I was so excited
15:05
about it all. I was having him try on these
15:07
silhouettes and we're like at, you know, at Iron Head and we're
15:10
like having this conversation and, you know, he just looks at
15:14
me. He tried he has a suit on and he
15:16
was like, Tracy, you like, I really like this, don't you?
15:19
I know. Of course I start laughing
15:22
because I always do. And I sound like a dolphin,
15:25
which people love anyway. So he he says that to me and I
15:29
look at him and I'm like, yeah, dude, I was like, I live for
15:33
this. I was like this show.
15:34
I was like, this is a dream project.
15:36
Like of course. And he was like big smile on his
15:39
face and he was just like, Tracy, you're like sunshine.
15:42
And I was like, oh, I was like, Nick, I'm taking that.
15:46
I'm gonna put it in my pocket and any time I feel I'm gonna
15:48
pull it up and I'm gonna say Nicki said I'm sunshine and it
15:53
makes me happy every time. I'm sure I'm blushing, but it's
15:55
just like, it's a good story. Like, I mean, who else can say
15:58
that? Yeah, that's so cool.
16:01
Oh my gosh. Well, it really comes through
16:03
like you could tell that he just like was having the best time
16:06
working with everyone on this show and you could just really
16:08
see that like he was having the best time and your guys
16:11
collaboration. It really came through because
16:13
he's been giving you all the shout outs too, and the press
16:15
too, which I love. He's.
16:17
Mentioned me in quite a few articles, you know, interviews,
16:20
which has been like super exciting.
16:23
Also on my Instagram, you can see on a panel he gave, gave me
16:27
a shout out and people were like, which is like, you know, I
16:31
was there and I was like, Oh my God, I can't believe that's
16:33
actually happening. And that's a big deal for
16:35
everyone listening cause a lot of the stars don't actually do
16:38
that. They don't, might add.
16:39
So that's pretty big. And I also he while we were
16:44
shooting, you know, I, I, you know, I like to do a little BTS
16:47
and I did ask him what his favorite costume was and that,
16:51
you know. That first of all, I think the
16:53
wardrobe in this show is, is dynamite.
16:57
Thank you so much, Dynamite. I appreciate it.
16:59
And I think you're going to win an Emmy.
17:01
You too. You too.
17:05
Thank you, but if I had to choose a favorite, first of all,
17:09
everything that Lily wears in the show is a home run.
17:13
But the green and rough iridescent gown that she wore?
17:20
One of my favorites. Too, That was that was a home
17:23
run. It was a knockout.
17:25
She looks so great and the style that you captured and the
17:30
Arctico flavor and the Golden Age flavor, even the shabby
17:34
suits that my character is wearing really has that feeling
17:37
that pop of some of my favorite actors like Cagney and Bogart
17:44
and Eddie G and Eddie G Robbins. So thank you.
17:47
Yeah, I really feel like you, you encompassed all that.
17:50
Thank you, you're the best. Thank you.
17:53
Bye. That clip is on my Instagram as
17:56
well. But it's so fun to like relive
17:59
that in that moment. And it wasn't even one of his
18:02
own costumes. It was one of Kat Hardy's
18:04
costumes, which is a lot of people's favorite, which is the
18:07
rust and green dress that I talk about quite a bit.
18:11
And so does Lily, and so does so does Nick.
18:14
So. It's and I will be bringing it
18:15
up in about probably 7 minutes. I.
18:19
Do want to say one thing, all the actors, all of them have
18:23
been so supportive. You know, Jack, Lily, Lamourne,
18:30
Karen, they've all mentioned the costumes in one one way or
18:35
another, whether it's in an in an interview or you just press
18:40
in general or on their Instagram or they're very good at like
18:43
reposting my, my, my posts. And again, actors are not always
18:49
like that. And so I just really want to say
18:51
like, thank you to them because they are so supportive.
18:55
Yeah, I love them. I love them too.
19:01
We also have to talk about the spider lick, which I just
19:04
thought was just fantastic. It contrasted from Ben's
19:07
day-to-day look just enough to disguise him so we didn't know
19:09
who it was, but still felt very grounded in realism, which I
19:12
really appreciate it because again, this isn't a hyper
19:16
exaggerated superhero film. His costume wasn't made with
19:20
outer space materials or fabrics.
19:24
So walk me through your approach to make it still feel very based
19:27
in realism. Like, I don't want to say he it
19:29
felt like he could have made it himself, but you know, he wasn't
19:32
chopping in Wakanda or anywhere else to get his get his costume
19:37
made, you know? You're absolutely right the the
19:42
in the way that the whole show was supposed to be grounded in
19:46
realism. There's a lot of back stories to
19:48
almost every character and, and for the Spider itself.
19:54
So it was really important to me and Oren when we first sat down
19:59
and I was like, this is what I'm thinking, you know what I mean?
20:01
I really want it to be something that could have come from like
20:05
the 1920s 'cause that's when he was in the war and that's
20:07
actually when he started being the spider around 1925 ish.
20:11
And so my back story is this. The mask itself is a military
20:20
sweater, right, that he sewed himself, which you can see the
20:25
stitching when there's like a couple of scenes where he
20:27
doesn't have his fedora on. So he made that mask and the and
20:33
it, you can tell there's like it, it feels like a knit
20:36
sweater. And to give you a little bit of
20:37
context, there are 4 layers of knit digital printing that we
20:43
did in order to create that look, to give it that, you know,
20:47
the shape and the feel. And it took so many tries to get
20:51
it ready. So so yeah, the, the mask is
20:55
based off of a military sweater. His military sweater bends.
20:58
And then the goggles are Doughboy goggles.
21:01
So Doughboy are basically people who flew aircrafts during the
21:10
war. And then Ben was he was
21:13
stationed in France right during the Warrens and he rode
21:16
motorcycles. And so his vest and his pants
21:20
and his boots are all French inspired military.
21:24
I'm sorry, motorcycle gear. So you know, I did a bunch of
21:28
research on like what people were wearing when they're riding
21:32
motorcycles. I did, I did, I did England and
21:35
I did, I did France. And so but because he was in
21:39
France, it made more sense in order to go that route.
21:42
The trench coat is actually like a military grade like trench
21:46
coat. It's, you know, a style that was
21:48
actually worn. And the fedora, of course, is a
21:51
fedora that, you know, test of time.
21:53
So every single piece had, you know, a back story and the
21:58
gloves as well, motorcycle gloves.
21:59
So and Oren loved that and so did I because, you know, one of
22:04
the things I always say when designing is that I have to have
22:09
a back story for my characters. It helps me give some sort of
22:12
motivation for why the clothes are the clothes and why the
22:15
visual storytelling is the visual storytelling.
22:17
Like, you know, you just don't want to just buy a dress, like
22:20
buy a dress. You want to like buy the right
22:22
dress. And in order to know what that
22:23
is, you have to be in the head of your character.
22:25
You have to understand the character's mind.
22:27
So yeah, everything, everything in the show is basically ground,
22:32
grounded in realism or has some sort of like back story.
22:36
Yeah, we can talk about cats back story if you want.
22:38
Oh, we're going to get there. Yeah.
22:42
But I just have to say I love the goggles.
22:44
Well, actually one of my favorite scenes.
22:46
It's, well, it's real quick, But it's when Janet reveals again
22:49
that she knows that Ben has been Spider all along.
22:53
And we have like, this drunk montage of Ben and the the drunk
22:57
Spider with the goggles. So funny.
23:00
I actually saw a photo of you with the goggles on, too.
23:02
So if you have any extra goggles lying around, Tracy, you know,
23:06
sort of where I live. Send them to you yeah, the
23:11
goggles were a big deal and that was also a lot of trial and
23:14
error. They the light up goggles were
23:17
definitely a challenge. We were trying to figure out
23:21
exactly like how to make that make that seem real and right.
23:27
And, and also if the goggles were going to light up entirely
23:32
or was it going to be like, you know, an outline or like, you
23:35
know, So I do think we got it to exactly where it needed to be.
23:38
They're super fun and I love that he gets to use them.
23:43
Yeah. And I do have a photo of myself
23:46
where because I was like. That's so good.
23:52
All right, let's talk about Cat Hardy.
23:55
Tracy. There could be a permanent
23:57
exhibition for all of her costumes.
23:58
They're so good. So Cat is under the dangerous
24:02
eye of Silver, Maine. It kind of give him like a blue
24:04
velvet type situation here, but she's trapped kind of like in
24:09
the confines of this beautiful club.
24:11
So of course she has all these beautiful performance gowns.
24:14
There are two in particular I want to discuss.
24:16
First is, of course, the golden dress with the headpiece.
24:20
I mean, the first time you see it, at first I was in black and
24:24
white, but I was like, now I got a switch, I got I got a seal.
24:28
So you know, it's gorgeous. So talk to me a little bit about
24:32
cats back story now that you have opened that door and tell
24:37
me about making that the the makings of that first costume.
24:40
And then we'll talk about my other favorite dress, which we
24:42
kind of already tapped into earlier.
24:45
So you were the surprise. Talk about the.
24:46
Bird dress, but we'll get to that.
24:48
That one too, since we already tapped into the other one.
24:50
We'll introduce the bird dress today.
24:52
Thanks. OK, so the gold dress, right?
24:57
I was obsessed with creating this look.
25:01
I needed it to reflect light. I needed it to be like this
25:04
amazing first iconic like draw to Kat Hardy.
25:12
Gold is my favorite color and she's like, you know, in her
25:16
gilded cage. And so I found this art Deco
25:21
print and I really was obsessed with gold foil.
25:25
I needed it to have some gold foil layer to it because the
25:30
light, it just illuminated, it was like it was, it was
25:33
beautiful, you know, And so found this gold silk, had the
25:39
gold foil printed on to this gold silk.
25:42
It took probably four or five different tries in order to get
25:46
it digitally printed the way I was obsessed that it needed to
25:53
listen. Being obsessive makes me good at
25:54
my job. All for nothing, you know,
25:59
clearly worked. And then we put this gold
26:02
chiffon layer over that, the printed layer, and created this
26:09
amazing dress. And then as far as like there's
26:12
gold like art Deco beading across the front and down the
26:17
back. And so I've just really wanted
26:19
to highlight all the assets. And as far as like the headpiece
26:25
goes, there's a lovely story behind that as well.
26:28
So originally, I wanted this huge headpiece, right?
26:32
It was very of the time. And I just thought it would be
26:34
amazing. And Oren was like, wasn't,
26:39
wasn't 100% on board with it. There's a lot of logistics.
26:42
Like, you know, originally she was gonna come down the stage
26:45
and she was gonna take the headpiece off and then she was
26:47
gonna sit in the booth and like, and we ended up not doing that,
26:50
But but he was like, I'm not sure she needs a headpiece,
26:55
Tracy. And I was like, OK, compromise,
26:58
smaller headpiece. How about that?
27:00
I was like, just let me, just let me do it and let me do the
27:03
fitting. And I was like, and I'll show it
27:05
to you. And if you still don't feel like
27:06
it's the right thing, then we can talk about it then.
27:09
OK, great. And this is what I mean about or
27:11
and letting you pitch, letting you go with like your inherent
27:15
feelings, letting you do your job.
27:18
So we create the headpiece and we do the fitting.
27:22
And I do think you need to pick your battles wisely.
27:25
And this was one that I felt extremely strongly about.
27:28
And I feel like it it was right. I mean, it's, it's on the
27:32
poster, it's the winner, you know what I mean?
27:36
So we do the fitting, Orrin sees the headpiece, and he was like,
27:41
OK, you were right. What was that?
27:46
It's the poster. Thank you, thank you.
27:48
And it ended up, like I said, it ended up being this iconic
27:50
piece. So, you know, I do think, like,
27:53
as a creative soul, you really do need to listen to your
27:56
inherent self. I say this all the time, you
27:58
know, And the things that I don't end up listening to myself
28:01
are letting someone talk me out of something I really felt
28:05
strongly about. I've regretted it.
28:06
So, you know, again, pick your battles wisely.
28:10
And as far as the other dresses, we can go right into them.
28:14
Yeah, let me start with the blue bird dress.
28:16
And actually, I believe she wears it in a moment where she's
28:19
actually in a moment where a little bit of distress and
28:22
walking away she. Does run into her room and she
28:25
snatches the bird off and she has a moment and she's crying
28:28
so. There you go.
28:29
So right there I was. I was getting there you were.
28:32
You were right. I didn't write the question.
28:34
I was very busy visiting it. It's OK.
28:39
You are mostly right. So this is Oren's favorite dress
28:43
of the entire entire season, just so everyone knows.
28:47
Again symbolizing the bird being caught in her gilded cage.
28:53
And the story behind this dress is we had just enough fabric,
28:58
like literally just enough fabric to do the sunburst
29:01
pleating because it took like three times the amount that it
29:04
normally would to create a dress.
29:07
I love this fabric so much. It and you know, I had someone
29:14
say to me like, oh, is that the right thing?
29:18
And I was like, it is the right thing, right?
29:21
It was like it is. And once it was pleated, it
29:24
couldn't have been more reflective.
29:27
It couldn't have been more of a wow.
29:28
It couldn't have, like, been more beautiful.
29:31
And this one is based off of a couture dress from 1933.
29:36
And I felt like, you know, she's ahead of her time.
29:38
She, you know, Silverman has everything made for her.
29:41
Like she's just, you know, so that dress I feel like ended up
29:46
being like, so beautiful and iconic because not only because
29:50
of the pleading of the time and not only because of the bird,
29:53
but also just the entire silhouette and her singing on
29:57
stage and having that beautiful, like, rhinestone headband across
30:03
her forehead. I just think it all just came
30:06
together like really beautifully, and I'm so glad I
30:08
didn't listen to someone trying to talk me out of that fabric.
30:13
Yeah, absolutely. That that actually it's one of
30:15
my favorites too. I'm glad that that's one of
30:16
Oren's favorites. And of course we have to talk
30:19
about the green and rust one. That was one of the ones where I
30:21
definitely like took a pause and switched over from black and
30:25
white and color just to see how that reflective material would
30:29
look in both mediums too, because it really was like a
30:32
lesson in how this metallic textile would work.
30:36
I mean, that was such an interesting case study.
30:42
Right. I, I walked into Mood Fabrics in
30:45
downtown LA and I saw this fabric up on a shelf and I
30:50
walked to the left and it was like one color.
30:53
And then I walked to the right and it was another color.
30:56
And when you're in the middle, it was like iridescent of both
31:00
colors, you know what I mean? And I was like, I have to have
31:04
that fabric. I didn't even know what I was
31:05
gonna make at that point. I just was like, I need to buy
31:07
it, I'll figure it out. Gonna be something for cat.
31:10
I don't know what it's gonna be. So I buy the fabric and I end up
31:17
seeing like this actually two different beautiful dresses and
31:21
I combine two of the these patterns.
31:24
I combine these two and it ended up being like this amazing,
31:28
like, you know, silhouette for her.
31:30
And I needed to find that chiffon piece that's connected
31:35
to the back. And I went all over town trying
31:38
to find rusting green in the same tones of the dress and
31:42
couldn't find it. And I ended up finding that
31:46
piece of fabric on Timu. Not kidding.
31:50
Not this is what I mean. Like, you never know where
31:52
you're gonna find something. I ordered it.
31:55
It never arrived. I had to order it again.
31:58
It did arrive like 2 days before it was supposed to work.
32:03
And I was like, OK, great. And the buckles that are
32:10
actually up here are actually shoe buckles from the 1930s.
32:13
So I took all these like different things and kind of
32:17
like, you know, mesh them together.
32:19
And as far as the way that it looked, I mean, Cat walked on
32:23
set lately and she everybody was like, Oh my God, Oh my God, even
32:30
like Nick was like, this is amazing.
32:33
You know, every actor that day was so complimentary about that
32:39
dress. I knew, you know, it's like, you
32:41
know, you're hit the mark when everyone's like owing and awing.
32:44
And then once we actually got to shoot like in black and white,
32:48
it just kind of ripples, like I can't even explain like how it's
32:52
like iridescent ripples, like that's that's how the light is
32:55
catching it. And then in color, it's just
32:58
like you move, you know, the cameras moving like different
33:00
she's moving and it you see how beautiful the two colors play
33:05
together. And I, I have to say, like,
33:10
that's pro. It's definitely top three for me
33:13
in terms of like the costumes that we created for the show
33:17
because it just has that wow factor.
33:19
It has that feeling of like perfection for what we were
33:23
trying to achieve. Yeah, it was a good one.
33:26
I mean, I had like a little tiny watch party, my French, and it
33:29
was like, whoa, pause. We got Switch.
33:31
We got Switch mediums here. Like we got a look at that one.
33:34
Are you taking notes of this one, Spencer?
33:35
I was like, I'm on it. I was like, I'm already on it,
33:41
don't worry. So let's talk about the villains
33:45
for a little bit. So we have a good little group
33:49
here. We have Tombstone Flint AKA
33:52
Sandman and Dirk AKA MW. These are all characters from
33:58
These are all characters. Well, we're Silverman has his
34:01
own question. We're going to get to him.
34:06
These are all these are all characters comic book fans would
34:11
recognize. So talk to me about translating
34:14
them from an original source material.
34:15
Like how deep were you in a comic books?
34:18
But then also, how were you giving them your own personal,
34:21
you know, Tracy Gigi feel the touch at the same time because
34:24
we, you know, we're not pulling this directly from a comic book
34:27
because this is the 30s noir show at the same time.
34:31
Yes, so the villains for me were extremely important again, you
34:36
know, I wanted to have like some connective tissue between the
34:39
comic books and the villains we were creating for the show.
34:42
And how I did that I was it was through color palette, right.
34:45
So Sandman, you know, most of Flint's clothes are greens and
34:50
tans and like of the earth, like sandy kind of colors.
34:54
And then, you know, as far as Tombstone goes, a lot of the
34:58
research I did, he was like, you know, in the comic books there's
35:00
a lot of purple and berries. And so, you know, I tended to
35:05
lean in that direction for him. And then MW, who ended up being
35:11
like one of my like, favorite villains, not only because the
35:16
character like, you know, Andrew played that in such a way where
35:19
you're just like, Oh my God, he's so over the top.
35:21
He wanted to be in the theater. So he's definitely playing it up
35:25
in that manner. And I really wanted him to feel
35:28
electric, right? Not only because of how Andrew
35:31
was playing, but because he's MW, right?
35:33
And so there's a lot of yellows and like Goldie kind of tones
35:37
and like orange, some black, which is also, you know, how he
35:42
is portrayed in the comic books. So color pilot was like super
35:45
important. And then when you become part of
35:49
Silver Mains gang, you all have a little accoutrement, right?
35:53
Like you all have like either a brooch or some sort of tie jewel
35:57
or you know, a tie bar, something that kind of like is
36:02
like your signature to being part of Silver Maid's game.
36:06
So that's a little Easter egg as far as the villains go.
36:10
And across the board, even with like Silver Maid, I really
36:13
wanted them to feel sinister and, you know, gangster like,
36:17
and you know, you felt like the menace, you know what I mean?
36:22
Like they were gonna, they they could do something to you.
36:24
They could hurt you, you know, and then that I wanted them to,
36:27
I wanted you to feel intimidated by them.
36:29
So I do feel like they're clothes kind of like, you know,
36:32
helped with the visuals of that feeling.
36:35
Yeah, Speaking of intimidating, I mean, Silvermane was played by
36:39
Brendan Gleeson, who was terrifying, even though like
36:42
there's some charming moments with him.
36:45
So that which adds to the intimidating nature of him, love
36:49
the blue color palette which gave him this rich kind of like
36:52
don't play with me vibe at all times.
36:55
So what were some of your inspirations for this character
36:58
which also had which also has its own comic book history as
37:02
well? Again, comic book trying to
37:05
like, you know, make sure that the villains are an easy read.
37:09
There's a lot of blue in silver main in various comic books.
37:15
So I, you know, that was the initial inspiration and then Al
37:18
Capone, you know. He was a terrifying.
37:23
Gangster and so I took a lot of his looks and you know, kind of,
37:28
you know, made them into something that silver main would
37:31
wear. There's like these beautiful
37:34
like there's there's a bunch of Easter eggs like throughout the
37:39
show. Like one of the things for
37:40
silver mane is I used both sides of like a fabric on one of his
37:46
suits. And so, you know, the color is
37:49
different in comparison to like the body and you know, I used
37:54
the velvet around the collar of his trench coat.
37:57
That's something that, you know, Capone did and I did like a four
38:01
piece suit, which is like a trench coat.
38:03
It's his. It's his Navy and white
38:07
pinstripe for pieces. I like to refer to it with a
38:11
trench coat that matches not only his jacket, but also his
38:14
vest and his pants. And so I thought that that was
38:16
something that was like, interesting.
38:18
But he needed to feel medicine. He needed to feel intimidating.
38:21
You needed to like, be afraid of him.
38:24
And I feel like in the fitting with Brendan, he when he put his
38:29
clothes on, he was like, this is this is it, This is OK.
38:31
He was like, I feel like, I feel like this character.
38:35
I feel like this gangster feel, you know, and by the way,
38:38
Brendan is one of the nicest people on the planet.
38:42
I mean, he's so charming and nice.
38:44
I love him so much. Throughout the show, I would go
38:49
up to him like after a scene and I would feel like you're so
38:53
scary, like you're so you, you're, I mean, he's such a good
38:57
actor. He's so scary.
38:58
And then, you know, a minute later he's like Tracy, and
39:01
you're just like, dude, so. Yeah, exactly like he was just.
39:08
So cool. And so it was just so awesome to
39:11
see how well he was like embodying this scary gangster.
39:17
I mean, you know, he did some really terrifying things in in
39:20
the show, yeah. Yeah, he's a spooky guy, but
39:25
love him. I mean, love him and everything
39:27
he's in. And he killed it in this series
39:28
as well. So one last character I want to
39:32
shout out. I love Robbie.
39:34
He's an investigative journalist.
39:37
And because of that, he really has to be approachable and
39:39
invest a lot into his look. But one of my favorite moments
39:43
in the show where I really locked in on his character.
39:45
I was like, this says so much about him when he's at home and
39:48
he opens up his fridge and he has nothing in it but ketchup.
39:53
And I want to say it was mayonnaise or something.
39:55
It was ketchup and something that's just did not go together.
39:58
I was like, wow. But he is decked out full head
40:02
to toe, always looks probably better than anyone else in this
40:05
show at times, like, oh, I see. Like it just says so much about
40:09
his character. Like this is where he's
40:11
investing because. He has to be approachable, like
40:14
these people have to feel comfortable talking to Robbie,
40:17
so I was hoping that you could talk a little more about Robbie
40:20
and his costumes. Absolutely.
40:24
So Robbie's fit obviously is, I mean, he's one of my favorites
40:28
because we got to like really put together something that was
40:32
informative of like who he is in the way that, like you said, he
40:38
needed to be able to go into hospital.
40:40
He needed to be able to walk into a business and be taken
40:43
serious. I mean, he's a serious reporter.
40:45
He's like, you know, people need to trust him.
40:47
They need to feel comfortable around him.
40:49
And so Lamorne and I had this conversation very early on and
40:52
Lamorne was like, how would I be able to afford these clothes?
40:55
And I was like you, this is where all your money goes
40:58
because you need to have this, you need to have this look, you
41:03
need people to like trust you and for you to be able to even
41:06
do your job. And I was like, and nobody needs
41:08
to know that you're at home eating a ketchup sandwich.
41:10
Like nobody know that but you. And you know, I, I'm
41:15
multicultural, right? I'm black and Jewish.
41:17
And I feel like, you know, African Americans as a whole
41:22
usually have an amazing style. One of the things my sister
41:24
always says, if something's not matching that she's wearing,
41:27
she's like, I'm not coordinated. And so, you know, I did, I mean,
41:30
I took that to heart and how, you know, I grew up in, in, in
41:34
this way. And so, you know, all of
41:37
Robbie's looks are like all put together, all coordinated, all
41:42
just like, you know, all the right tones.
41:45
And so I really felt like him playing that character is a way
41:51
of showing that African American people had style and that they
41:55
get, you know, dressed really well.
41:57
And not only that, that people, and I think this is true even
42:01
now that, you know, people look to like African American style
42:05
and tend to be inspired. And so all of that went into
42:09
Robbie and and the morn. I mean, he couldn't have he
42:14
could have worn those clothes any better.
42:15
And he's another one that always gives me a shout out because I
42:20
really feel like the clothes really helped, really helped his
42:24
character, you know, really helped you understand who he is.
42:28
Yeah, like right away from the beginning of the series or like
42:32
I know who this guy is and he just felt comfortable with him
42:34
and so did everyone else in the show in the community around
42:38
him. Like that's that was the whole
42:39
thing. They felt comfortable telling
42:41
him everything to sometimes their detriment, you know, to
42:45
silver mains detriment. You know, he's the part of the
42:48
reporter. I would like to just say a
42:51
couple of things really quick. One is Karen.
42:53
She not who? Janet.
42:56
So Karen, who plays Janet, I just love first and foremost
43:00
that our whole cast is so diverse.
43:02
A lot of we very inclusive. And with a character like Karen
43:07
who's, you know, like Janet, her, her personality was so big
43:13
and I really wanted to infuse that into like her costume.
43:16
So there's a lot of big bold prints and pops of colour which
43:21
I thought were important. And she's so like feisty and
43:23
fun. I just and and I feel like
43:26
Karen, I mean, she stole almost every scene and the band she's.
43:29
So funny, so good, and the baby between.
43:33
Janet and Ben, like, it's so witty.
43:35
It's like you can't, you don't want to take your eyes off of
43:38
that like. She's running the show.
43:40
Really. I mean, he's calling the shots,
43:42
dude. I love it so much.
43:45
So I'm, I'm so happy we had a character, you know, like her.
43:49
It's like, you know, a feisty Latina who's like shapely.
43:52
It's like, it was great. And so just from like the
43:54
costume design point of view, it's just another, you know,
43:58
aspect of like being able to show different types of people.
44:03
The other thing I want to say is I hope that everyone finds the
44:06
Easter eggs that are planted throughout the show.
44:09
Obviously the color palette is 1 and it's and just to touch on
44:15
that, like with Cat, something I didn't mention is you can kind
44:18
of tell who her emotions are, like leaning towards by the
44:22
colors that she's wearing. So if you see her wearing
44:24
certain colors, you'll know that her emotions are feeling a
44:29
certain way. Yes.
44:32
And Ben Riley's color palette is Gray and burgundy, if I hadn't
44:37
mentioned that. So strakes.
44:42
Oh, that's interesting kind of Taylor.
44:44
So where she's feeling at the moment, I'm gonna, well, I'm
44:47
gonna have to obviously go back and watch it a couple times
44:50
cause Tracy and I have some things coming up that we can't
44:53
really talk about yet. But you know, it's in spite into
44:55
where things coming up. Tracy, this was such an
44:58
incredible series. I just have to ask you before I
45:01
let you go, what has this series meant to you personally and
45:04
professionally? OK, this show Spider Noir is a
45:12
dream come true, right? It's like a dream job.
45:14
I couldn't have asked for anything better or more being
45:18
able to bring the first life to pursuit for Spider Noir to life
45:23
is is just like a dream, right? And, and being able to, to have
45:29
a period show on top of that, like being able to create all
45:33
these awesome, gorgeous 1930s looks.
45:39
Recently, I went back to the office and where we're storing a
45:43
bunch of the clothes and my feeling was this, I walked in
45:49
and I was like, we got to create such beautiful pieces for the
45:54
show. Like it was it, it, it literally
45:57
is a dream job. Like between the fabrics and the
46:00
printing. And I mean, I had an amazing,
46:03
amazing work room full of such talented tailors, and it was the
46:10
best costume department I've ever had.
46:12
Like there's just so many good things about this job.
46:17
The highlight, which you know, I think is important to to touch
46:22
on is in the moment you can't appreciate anything.
46:25
You know, it's like I have 3 units running.
46:28
Two of them are stunts. I'm running back and forth.
46:30
One of them's downtown LA. The rest of them are like at
46:33
Sony. And you're trying to manage it
46:35
all. And we are in such a tight
46:37
timeline to create all these pieces.
46:41
And so, you know, I was with Daniel, my ACD on the job, who
46:46
also was an amazing costume designer on.
46:48
His own Daniel Salon, who's been on a podcast like 2-3 times at
46:51
this point. Everyone who's amazing.
46:54
I'm so grateful that he was willing to assist me on this
46:57
job. We went to Mexico City's Comic
47:01
Con and the Spider did this crazy like intro.
47:06
He like flew through the air, landed on the stage and we had
47:10
there's 2000 people in this room.
47:13
Spider comes in standing ovation.
47:16
Standing ovation. And I looked to Daniel and I was
47:19
like, we did that. We like we created something so
47:23
awesome that people are literally like standing up and
47:27
like, you know, clapping. And I have such an appreciation
47:32
for that costume, for that super suit, the way the light
47:35
reflects, the way Thomas, our one of our specialty customers,
47:39
like he, you know, there's this amazing like gloss that we used,
47:44
you know, for the fedora, like just these small things that
47:47
really translated into this costume being so incredible.
47:52
And I feel like I'm at a point where, like, when I see it now,
47:57
I'm so overwhelmed with how grateful I am that I got to
48:02
actually create something like this.
48:03
So yeah, it's pretty rad. Not that.
48:09
It's very, very rad. I'm so happy for you.
48:12
It is so exciting and like it's just, you know, getting started
48:15
to the Spartan War trains going to keep on rolling for a little
48:19
while here. So I'm so excited for you,
48:22
Tracy. And we have so many more fun
48:24
things coming up and we have Spaceballs coming up and like
48:26
what it's like less than a year, a year, I don't know, But I'm so
48:31
excited. 2027 that's when it. Comes Thank you, thank you.
48:35
So excited I grew up watching Spaceballs.
48:38
Love that film. So when I heard you're doing
48:40
Spaceballs, the second one your. Dream job, and I mean.
48:44
It's it's crazy. Well, Spaceballs is one of my
48:46
favorite movies literally of all time.
48:48
It's I can't quote very many movies, but I can quote that
48:51
one. And you know, when I got that
48:53
job, I, I burst into tears and I've never cried over getting a
48:56
job. I just couldn't believe it.
48:58
Like. It's crazy, I used to like camp
49:00
in my backyard. I'm watching on VHS like film
49:03
projector with style like watching that one.
49:06
It's, it's a good one. So excited.
49:08
I mean, should we manifest anything else while we're here
49:10
since we have like a good track record?
49:13
Yes, so I am dying to do I'm dying to do 4th Wing and I know
49:21
that it's in development. It is Dragon College.
49:25
If you're not aware, you need to read these books.
49:28
Have you not read these books, Spencer?
49:30
OMG, OK, I have them. I've.
49:35
I think I've read them three times at this point.
49:37
I will let you borrow them, but you have to give them back.
49:41
I am such a nerd about anything that has to do with like Dragons
49:45
or romance in sci-fi. So yeah, if I could do that
49:53
show, I would. I would probably die.
49:56
Yeah, I would die. It would be so.
49:58
Great hit Tracy field up. Tracy, thank you so much for
50:02
being here. This has been the best.
50:04
I'm so happy for you. But please watch Spider Noir is
50:08
incredible series. Watch it in color, watch it in
50:11
black and white and then watch it again.
50:13
It's so much fun, Amazon. Prime everybody.
50:15
Thank you for having me, Spencer.
50:17
It's so good to see your face. I.
50:19
Know thank you for being here. The costume house with Spencer
50:24
Williams is a production of the art of costume.
50:27
This episode was hosted produced and edited by Spencer Williams.
50:31
To discover more conversations with the designer shaping film,
50:34
television, and theater, visit theartofcostume.com or follow us
50:38
on social media at The Art of Costume.
50:40
And don't forget to connect with me on Instagram at Host Spencer.
50:43
If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to follow
50:46
and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts or watch on
50:49
YouTube and stay tuned for more episodes celebrating the
50:52
designers shaping today's most captivating films, television
50:55
series, and stage plays.