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Who Was Dale Carnegie? · Dirt Nap City - History's Most Interesting Dead People

• 0:10
  Alex: Everybody.
• 0:11
  Kelly: Wow, that was a good one.
• 0:13
  Alex: makes you smile, doesn't it? It
• 0:14
  Kelly: does make me smile.
• 0:15
  Alex: Welcome to another episode of dirt nap city. A people. I'm Alex, I'm here with my friend Kelly. Kelly.
• 0:28
  Kelly: Man? I'm just, you know, enjoying the summer, now, even though I'm in Texas right now, hopefully, yeah, just thinking about all the interesting stuff that we funny. I'm having a harder time coming up with people to cities than I am with dirt nap city dead ends, it seems like
• 0:53
  Alex: Oh, yeah. What are dead ends again. That's stuff that
• 0:57
  Kelly: used to do that we don't do anymore, that we make other week about if you haven't checked one out, I ray shoe fitter. That was a really good one.
• 1:09
  Alex: So we may have people that are kind of new to us famous dead people Gerrits podcasts. And so if you're you've gone back and listen to some of the newer the older we've we've done about 60 or so episodes, right?
• 1:28
  Kelly: Yeah, I think this is like 65 that Ron or something
• 1:33
  Alex: Well, as you know, I'm really into 20th century 20th century man.
• 1:41
  Kelly: Today, surprise, surprise.
• 1:43
  Alex: Yeah, you know, I think it's a lot of what we do today cats. So today, I want to talk about somebody who, I'm not you'll either know it or you won't. Right. Okay. But you'll Okay. And he was kind of he was from your neck of the have kin up in the Missouri area, right? Yeah, yeah, 1888 in Maryville, Missouri, you know where that is?
• 2:19
  Kelly: I think I got a girl named Susan down in Maryville.
• 2:25
  Kelly: Mary down and Susan Dell can remember
• 2:27
  Alex: Mary feels like halfway between Kansas City and Omaha.
• 2:32
  Alex: Usually,
• 2:33
  Kelly: usually I would go the opposite direction from Kansas North.
• 2:38
  Alex: Okay, okay. He died in 1955. in Forest Hills, New used to play the US Open Tennis in Queens over there.
• 2:58
  Alex: popular American books of all time best selling books of all 30 million books. And I would
• 3:09
  Kelly: do you know, How to Win Friends and Influence People.
• 3:12
  Alex: Yes. You know, who we're talking about?
• 3:15
  Kelly: Wasn't we already did Dr. Spock. So when he was it like an initial and then a name? Like no Be? Be Franklin that? How to Win Friends and Influence. As soon as you
• 3:37
  Alex: I'll be sure. No, it was Dale Carnegie.
• 3:42
  Kelly: Dale Carnegie. Okay.
• 3:42
  Kelly: Was he like part of the
• 3:47
  Alex: No, no, not at all. I grew up in a poor guy in Dales he had not not part of the Andrew Carnegie's, in same way. Originally, I'll get to that. No, he, you're right.
• 4:04
  Alex: and Influence People, which was one of the first what help books if you went into Yeah. Barnes and Noble, you'd the self help, right? Look him square in the eye. And what he Americans need and desire for self confidence. Like that's people tapped into that and exploited that. And I think a based on people trying to tap into that. I mean, that's what Like, some people would say fake self confidence, right?
• 4:43
  Alex: That's a very American thing.
• 4:43
  Alex: I think he kind of started all you think about the title, How to Win Friends and Influence you think you have?
• 4:58
  Kelly: Probably 200 That's my guess how many do you have?
• 5:03
  Alex: Not very many, like six or seven? Probably?
• 5:06
  Kelly: Well, okay, but what's your definition of friend? I There's there's people, you there's people you see, not I mean, you just mentioned some dude that we were friends you were wanting to bring on as a guest. You know, you call
• 5:24
  Alex: Yeah. Yeah, it's true.
• 5:24
  Alex: And some people are friends, they are again, and then they're not. And people kind lives. But I don't think that's the kind of friends about. And
• 5:36
  Kelly: then the ones that they say he's just a friend. Say,
• 5:41
  Alex: yeah, exactly. How do you but I think, how do you go you're like, when you were raising your kids? And they school? And how, what kind of advice did you use to give friends?
• 5:57
  Kelly: I think my biggest advice was just to be nice.
• 6:03
  Kelly: with like, smiling, looking him in the eye. Seeing if you first and then you know, asking second, like if you can Find common interests with people are those all? Kinda?
• 6:20
  Alex: that's exactly the the kind of effect some of those advice that Dale Carnegie used to give. But it wasn't for the the sake of more for the influencing people part. And like salespeople, for example, you know, and so trying to I people but basically, you know, get people open up people to do what you wanted them to do and influence
• 6:53
  Kelly: interesting. He doesn't say make friends. He says win
• 6:57
  Alex: That's the part that I keep obsessing over this, this friends. It was called How to Win Friends. And winning collecting friends or or something like that. I want to
• 7:11
  Kelly: social media. Like How many friends do you have on
• 7:15
  Alex: And that's only different kinds of friends.
• 7:18
  Alex: call those followers, right?
• 7:18
  Alex: And what's the difference follower? And being an influencer is now something that this was 100 years ago, and influencing people was I suppose. What
• 7:37
  Kelly: year was that book written? In?
• 7:39
  Alex: 1930?
• 7:40
  Kelly: Okay, okay. So, so like just around the Depression and
• 7:46
  Alex: 36. So almost 100 years ago, like 90 years ago,
• 7:50
  Kelly: lots of stuff going on.
• 7:51
  Alex: So this guy was born poor on a farm in Missouri.
• 8:01
  Alex: do you think of when you think of a Carnegie? Right? We're Andrew Carnegie, right, like a steel magnate, and these these Rockefellers that she's talking about, that's not what is a poor guy. And when he was 16, they moved to Warrensburg.
• 8:19
  Alex: Missouri. I do. Yeah. Do you really know it's like probably right? Yep. Yep. Just east of Casey, but back then it was farm and he would wake up at three in the morning to feed goats go to high school and he was on the debate team and he there in Warrensburg. What's going on? Warrensburg now
• 8:48
  Kelly: well, you know they're big cheese fans there. They red on Fridays and probably getting ready for July 4 fireworks.
• 9:01
  Alex: All right. So a little more suburban life than he was
• 9:06
  Kelly: Yeah, you mentioned also just about you know, Carnegie. I think I don't really ever think of anybody wealthy.
• 9:17
  Alex: I was thinking of this yesterday. I really liked the bring it back a little bit.
• 9:21
  Alex: It's probably too late for me considering naming a kid you can't go wrong with Dale wrong deals not gonna cheat you. He
• 9:37
  Kelly: can probably fix your sink and and will your wife
• 9:42
  Alex: is never going to steer you wrong. Dale is going to of the way things are. Yeah. I would say you can't go wrong days.
• 9:51
  Kelly: There you go. Endorsed by dirt nap city.
• 9:54
  Alex: And if you do that, text us.
• 9:59
  Kelly: Send us an email now.
• 9:59
  Kelly: Got it. As a matter of fact, set you up with your own dirt nap city address. Dale at dirt promise. Our new segment called Ask Dale.
• 10:12
  Alex: So our friend Dale Carnegie graduated from high In 1906, went to State Teachers College, two year then it became a salesman for armoring company, you know, the meats? Oh, yeah, yeah,
• 10:33
  Kelly: it's like AR mo you are? Yes.
• 10:36
  Alex: Yeah, they do meats but they he was in the division made from the pigs. You know, bacon. Yeah. His big things Yeah,
• 10:47
  Kelly: I remember. I remember the person that made those Chandler.
• 10:51
  Alex: Oh, yeah. Which episode do we learn that in?
• 10:55
  Kelly: Somebody's father was a Chandler. Ben Franklin's So he probably knew Dale. No, he was a little bit before his
• 11:07
  Alex: little before his time.
• 11:07
  Alex: Well, he was very successful just about the most successful person in the whole armor Omaha Division.
• 11:21
  Kelly: He was here to sell you some lard. He was
• 11:23
  Alex: killing it. But one thing he was really interested Chautauqua. Have you ever heard of Chautauqua? Yeah.
• 11:32
  Kelly: So is that like a, like a story or something that that
• 11:39
  Alex: Kind of? Yeah, it was.
• 11:39
  Alex: They were these assemblies to the countryside. And while there were there were ones where you would go to them and learn like adult learning
• 11:53
  Kelly: was based on Native American teachings.
• 11:56
  Alex: I don't know, I don't, I don't know how they got their was about like, today, it would be like adult education, the taking a free class at the community college or there were some that toured like, like a traveling show, circuit. And they would go and they would go around from need of entertainment and culture. They'd have some also have businessmen. They'd have singers and maybe some wholesome, very wholesome.
• 12:37
  Kelly: You know, the first time I ever heard that. That to double check and make sure I wasn't Miss remembering this of Motorcycle Maintenance.
• 12:48
  Kelly: They talked about Chautauqua
• 12:52
  Alex: That's right. So like I said, it was very wholesome.
• 12:58
  Alex: that was that was a form of entertainment at the time, Vaudeville was pretty vulgar, like, tennis. Right? That was jokes were being told. And the dirty they would maybe had are boy PT Barnum. Well, you know what happened was over a little more racy. And the vaudeville stuff got a little a while, the lines were blurred. And they, they were why they don't do them. I guess today, the closest thing like TED Talks. You know where you are, you know, you could just, you know, getting getting lectured to by all the masterclass, but Right, but imagine you're living in the Missouri. And you're able to kind of take part and learn formal education. You could learn from all the greats in Franklin teaches meat cutting.
• 14:05
  Alex: Yeah, exactly. That kind of that was his real dream was to do one of these things he these Chautauqua speakers and he was really into that. So he gig. And he quit to be a Chautauqua lecturer. But he and went to New York to be to try drama school.
• 14:35
  Kelly: Okay.
• 14:37
  Alex: That might have been another dream that he had. You of our system. Yeah,
• 14:43
  Kelly: Dad, I'm not going to be a doctor. I'm going to
• 14:47
  Alex: last very long. It lasted exactly one play. And when he got back, he stayed in New York and lived at the the manager of the why to let him teach a class if he could the box office for for those classes, right? Yeah. So he class. And I think he was going to try to teach it like whatever he knew about. And he ran out of material during the started winging it. And the first thing he asked his class makes you angry. And what he noticed was, his students were of speaking that a lot of students have, that when they made them angry, angry, it's like they forgot that they And that really gave him a spark and light discovered, it the aha moment as Oprah would say, it made people like, like doing this, people were less afraid of public speaking. And while he discovered that what people really wanted was self for that anything. And being able to speak in front of a confidence. So if he could provide that, and he could these little tools and these hacks to get people to be more had something there and he could monetize that. Well, by a week, which in today's money is about $16,000 a week. In about 800k a year, just putting on these classes, know, teaching little tricks about how to be more self really fast. Well, by 1916, he was booking places like decided, so his name was not spelled the same way as Andrew and a gy I think at the end, and a K at the beginning. But there was no K at the beginning, it wasn't it wasn't Kitchen, backwards, gay. He decided that if he changed the everyone, he thought everyone already thinks that were this? And it will give me a little
• 17:26
  Kelly: more cash stability.
• 17:26
  Kelly: Yeah.
• 17:30
  Alex: I don't know. To me, that's controversial. But so name for that. He wrote books, started writing books on books on other things. His book titles are very
• 17:45
  Kelly: utilitarian. Yeah,
• 17:47
  Alex: they tell you exactly what the books about. Right, this is something that maybe he wouldn't enjoy this podcast books was called, little known facts about well known
• 17:58
  Kelly: people. Ah, that's it.
• 17:58
  Kelly: That's a pretty catchy title
• 18:03
  Alex: our wheelhouse. Yeah.
• 18:03
  Alex: One of his other books was and start living. That's an attention grabber though, there weren't a lot of self help books. And if you're and you're looking at what do you got Moby Dick, and you've and
• 18:25
  Kelly: How to Stop Worrying and start living seems like
• 18:29
  Alex: a no brainer, right?
• 18:29
  Alex: That that would sell some
• 18:32
  Kelly: So so this is this is very similar. You know, I've past and very similar to the titles you pick for your Yes. Is like if that title is, is catchy, and has a hook to click on it, just like more people are going to buy that
• 18:49
  Alex: Right. So what's like, what's the one of the best YouTube? More titles? Well, one
• 18:56
  Kelly: of one of my most successful was about I do a know. And it was don't buy this drone. And it was a the drone over a trash can with stink lines coming off of it.
• 19:14
  Kelly: you probably got that. Yeah, I'm sure that was served up to popular millions of views.
• 19:18
  Kelly: Yeah.
• 19:21
  Alex: And if the people if you're just trying to figure and you search for that, it's probably going to come up.
• 19:29
  Kelly: Yeah, yeah. And also, the big thing too, that I've this goes against my personal philosophy of positivity, viscerally to fear and FOMO.
• 19:42
  Kelly: Like, like, if you can, you're people 1010 mistakes to avoid or 1010 10 problems that you do when flying Your drone or whatever, versus 10 things you would rather hear about the mistakes not to make than the doing. Yeah, I
• 20:08
  Alex: don't want to miss out on that. You watch the local thing about you know, about does your air conditioning 10 o'clock. Exactly.
• 20:20
  Kelly: Is is is our podcast bad for your eyes? will tell
• 20:28
  Alex: Yeah. Well, in in 1936, he came out with the big book, talking about how to win friends and influence people.
• 20:41
  Alex: write this book though. Simon and Schuster came to him and on this. And he said, No, originally, he thought it undertaking. So Simon and Schuster hired us demographer just type up one of his longer lectures. And they put it into they sent him the transcript edited and he edited. He bit. Okay, we didn't sit down with a typewriter and really of based on the lectures though he was already
• 21:16
  Kelly: it's like a big blue right now writing the dirt nap making notes. And yeah, they Yeah, they will get it
• 21:24
  Alex: let's hope so if we if we approve that might be Well, by the time he died, this book had sold 5 million It's sold over 30 million.
• 21:35
  Alex: Wow. He's Library of Congress most influential books in American history. He said Franklin, our good friend Ben fell. Yeah, yeah, check out Franklin had a quote that said God helps them that helps the way that Dale Carnegie lived life was. He thought there's the help themselves, the selfhelp that that whole this.
• 22:10
  Kelly: Make sure you're right.
• 22:10
  Kelly: And then go ahead.
• 22:13
  Alex: To call back from an earlier David Crockett were 30 principles of how to win friends and influence through all 30 But I'll give you kind of the first few. And this, this book. The first one, kick
• 22:32
  Kelly: him in the nuts.
• 22:34
  Alex: Now, come on. The The first one was just what you these are positive. The first one is the only one that's Okay. Okay. While the positive Don't
• 22:49
  Kelly: interrupt, don't interrupt, don't interrupt.
• 22:52
  Alex: Don't criticize, condemn or complain. Lesson number how to win friends and influence people. Don't be a Don't be criticizing, condemn or complain. Nice, give He thought there was a big difference between if you could figure that out, flattery is just blowing smoke Right? So it's selfish. It's getting you something that you is truly it's it's the truest form of giving somebody you're
• 23:41
  Kelly: not trying to win brownie points.
• 23:45
  Alex: But maybe you were I don't know if you're reading Right. What point if you're telling you, Hey, be sincere.
• 23:55
  Alex: of the criticism I might have.
• 23:55
  Alex: Rauzan the other person a
• 24:00
  Kelly: Oh, yeah, the become
• 24:03
  Alex: genuinely interested in other people. Number five is smile. Yeah. Be friendly.
• 24:09
  Alex: Number six. And this is a is to that person. The sweetest and most important you're talking to somebody Kelly use their name a lot, people really are attracted to when they hear their name. It
• 24:34
  Kelly: I've heard that quote before, and I think it works
• 24:42
  Alex: Now, you know, I think it's ironic because he changed least the spelling of his name, to attach him to relationship with. So there's a little
• 24:57
  Kelly: change. He didn't change the way it was said, Carnegie, or was it Carnegie?
• 25:03
  Alex: It was Carnegie. The other guy was Carnegie. But he changed that part. Okay, encourage others to talk about you maybe said dad or something let's
• 25:17
  Kelly: that's like dating 101.
• 25:17
  Kelly: Right? That's, that's
• 25:23
  Alex: talk in terms of the other person's interest, taken any kind of sales course, these are the kinds of of the stuff was originated with Dale Carnegie, the things now. So those were kind of the first eight. By the way, Dale around, we'll go. It's bigger than ever. I think it's run by know, it's it's still rooted in people's need to have more around over 100 years now.
• 25:59
  Alex: They focus on things like customer service,
• 26:05
  Kelly: have you ever taken one of those classes?
• 26:08
  Alex: Not Dale Carnegie, no, you have, you know, I
• 26:11
  Kelly: haven't taken one. But I was hired one time to video Sandler method. And it was similar, like, like it was a fly on the wall. And it was interesting.
• 26:25
  Alex: Yeah, I was in I was in sales briefly and took those kind of flavor what they're, they're trying to do. And a comes across as disingenuous and fake. And just the to get at. It was not about well, maybe it was about friends. But I found a lot of it to be very distasteful and wanted to do, you know?
• 26:59
  Kelly: Talk about yourself.
• 27:02
  Alex: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
• 27:02
  Alex: I think the best way to get talk. Talk about yourself.
• 27:07
  Alex: Yeah.
• 27:12
  Kelly: Hey, did you hear what I've been up to? Have you app city?
• 27:17
  Alex: Right enough about me?
• 27:17
  Alex: What do you think of me?
• 27:25
  Alex: there were some criticisms of the book. Not a lot at the but at the time, the author Sinclair Lewis said that it smile and Bob, and pretend to be interested in other so you may screw things out of them. Was Sinclair Lewis, the
• 27:45
  Kelly: jungle? No, that was Upton Sinclair, Upton
• 27:49
  Alex: But, you know, this idea of what I'm trying to say is we're on to that but not everyone. I mean,
• 28:00
  Kelly: yeah, but but so many, here's the thing is, is I common sense. And, and things that you should do sincerely, sincerely. There. There's a big thing now about authenticity, they don't want you to be fake. So that almost talked about Tony Clifton, a couple of weeks ago in the Clifton, even though he was a jerk, he was sincere. You was. You know, we have political leaders like that authenticity, those people whereas if you someone who watched the righteous gemstones, right? Uncle baby, inauthentic, right? Just very, very fake guy like, smiles, how you're doing, you know, but but he is the smarmy guy around. Yeah. So I think that's the big thing now is those things. Because all those things he's talking in the eye and ask about them and talk about the other interest and don't complain.
• 29:15
  Kelly: But if you don't do it with through you.
• 29:22
  Alex: Yeah, and that's the that's the discussion I want sincere? Or was he a hypocrite by by selling books in order Is that sincerity? Is that is the idea of winning friends in notion?
• 29:44
  Kelly: I don't, I don't think so. I believe at the time some innovative and weren't as common sense as they seem we just talked about this with Davy Crockett. He got he got Used by his dad at the age of 12. Right? A lot of people harder environments back then, and probably didn't understand idea of being able to not complain, you know, it was back then. And so I feel like, I feel like back then those less cliche and silly sounding as they are now. But I even don't they grew up with bad examples. And this is an eye they're like, oh, wow, maybe I do complain a lot. And maybe me.
• 30:41
  Alex: Yeah, certainly, in 100 years of advertising, we've, folks, that, you know, advertising is funny, because in the 1950s won't work today.
• 30:51
  Alex: Because every time people are way they become, yeah, it's
• 30:59
  Kelly: like a disease. It's like it becomes you get immune And then the next one comes along, right.
• 31:07
  Alex: So we have to constantly figure out new ways to get at that stuff is really interesting to me. The thing was that was new was really novel at the time was that he communicate attitudes, not ideas, that it didn't matter how you were saying it. And the smile was worth 1000 somebody, you disarmed an enemy, right?
• 31:40
  Kelly: It's like smashing pumpkins song. Sure.
• 31:43
  Alex: And there was a there was a Yeah. When there was a written and talked about this and talked about how, when you when you smiled and asked him what he thought. You proved conversationalist, even though all you're doing is saying, And when you smiled and asked him what he wanted out of secret of selling? Wow. So from a cynics point of view, of selling somebody something or in Sinclair Lewis's mind, somebody?
• 32:25
  Kelly: I don't know, what do you think I disagree with the we all are constantly selling, we are all constantly it's is right, we need to survive.
• 32:36
  Kelly: We want to get ahead both And we want to mate with the best person we can mate with can have and pass our bloodline down in the in the are always, I mean, if, if there weren't other people naked, picking our noses, you know, just doing all kinds of social norms that we have to follow. And we do it because people think about us. And we want other people to like us.
• 33:11
  Kelly: I just went on, but but I don't see any problem with it.
• 33:15
  Kelly: with him. coaching people. You know, it seems like today, There's a mecca master class for, for fashion, and there's there's a master class for cutting meat, like I said know, it's like, okay, some of these things are practical, know, barbecue or a smoking guy, and you want to be able to me. But some of them are really abstract and seem like, something? Or are you just kind of telling me what you but at the time, I think it was really novel, like you to tell you to smile. It was normal for someone to say, you complain. What, you know, that was sort of news to know, I I don't know anything else about the guy other than episode, and the fact that he wrote that book, but I have no it as insincere at all. And if he made a buck on it good for
• 34:15
  Alex: He made a lot of bucks on it. He would say that what see the world through other people's eyes. Okay. Empathy, any one secret of success, it's in the ability to get the and see things from that person's angle as well as from all. Is that putting you're putting your shoes and putting shoes?
• 34:47
  Kelly: Yeah, yeah. All right.
• 34:47
  Kelly: I don't disagree. What do you your take on it though? Give me a can you commit to one the middle of where do you feel?
• 34:57
  Alex: Well, when so So, at the time, I think it was really like a lot of things that we talked about. And it's hard to century eyes, because it seemed we've been so jaded, conditioned to, to be cynical about this stuff. I don't.
• 35:23
  Alex: though, that thinks that signing up for one of these sincere, is icky. Yeah. Yeah.
• 35:27
  Alex: And, and there's,
• 35:33
  Kelly: I think there are people that need it.
• 35:35
  Alex: There's Well, that's the question we I, some of this, I job, I'm not full time podcasts. I don't know if you where I teach in psychology.
• 35:46
  Alex: And there's a thing called the one of the facets in political skill is called a you don't have the parents sincerity, the whole thing is
• 36:03
  Kelly: father and mother of sincerity, yeah.
• 36:06
  Alex: teaching someone how to be sincere and come across as like you're either sincere or you're not. And I don't think be teaching you how to come across. As sincere.
• 36:19
  Kelly: Okay, but do you ever fake sincerity?
• 36:21
  Alex: We all do. Yeah. Yeah.
• 36:26
  Kelly: I mean, you know, let's just say with a relationship, you ask you a question about something that you really Yeah, that's awesome. I love it. Thank you. Great.
• 36:39
  Alex: Well, what would you say if I told you, and this is successful in Nazi Germany?
• 36:48
  Kelly: Well, I wouldn't be surprised because I think they they were all about. They were all about, like, trying to master race and
• 37:02
  Alex: convincing millions of people that use were the
• 37:06
  Kelly: Yeah. Yeah. And winning, influencing people.
• 37:10
  Kelly: they influence people. I'm certainly not endorsing that.
• 37:14
  Kelly: surprised.
• 37:15
  Alex: No, but it's interesting, the techniques or you're using for good or evil, the techniques work. Charles personalities, Charles Manson was a big follower of Dale his techniques to recruit his, his, you know, family.
• 37:39
  Kelly: But then you look at people who are absolutely not and I'm not gonna name any names, but it rhymes with not smiling. He's, he's, he's not necessarily looking you in are pretty much wants to talk about himself all the time, fan base. How does that work?
• 38:07
  Alex: Yeah, but also not super successful at selling himself? You know, so it's, that's more of you'd have to similar to cult leaders than it is to salespeople, right?
• 38:28
  Alex: was a Yeah, there was another interesting example of some kidnapped in Russia. And they used Dale Carnegie's from their kidnappers to get them to not hurt them, and to They had they had as part of their mission training, they Carnegie courses, and learn these techniques. And they got actually
• 39:00
  Kelly: so they said, Hey, Ivan, is that a is that a hat?
• 39:07
  Alex: I mean, the techniques are the techniques, whether is your choice, but that seemed to work right? Like
• 39:15
  Kelly: my heart. Thank you.
• 39:15
  Kelly: Here's some extra, some extra
• 39:21
  Alex: I have some other crazy stuff to tell you. That is contemporary for somebody from 100 years ago. Our actions, actions dictate our thoughts, that we can train ourselves to by behaving as if we are that is fake it till you make it today. 100% As long as you pretend you're happy, smart happen. Like we might as well pretend you're that way.
• 39:52
  Kelly: Right. I have a different take on that. So
• 39:56
  Alex: you have a different take on what that means or yes
• 39:59
  Kelly: What that means, okay, so he says, I it is fake it one level, but what what you just read was, or the word you he ever says pretend does he
• 40:14
  Alex: know behave as if we are happy, smart, okay
• 40:16
  Kelly: and productive. Here's, here's what I think that it's easy to say, Okay pretend like you are and you will are means believe you can be.
• 40:25
  Kelly: So I think what it's saying happy, smart and productive you can be you can't do it right? You have to believe that it's possible before you And so I take that to mean believe that you can do those yourself up and saying I'm dumb, I'm not productive, I'm I'm never you know. And so that was more of a positive to. And this is where the difference between the takes place. What fake it till you make it is is your point, external world, you're saying, I'm happy, I'm successful, I'm I'm all these things. But you don't if you don't believe it those things. It has to come from the inside out, not the
• 41:19
  Alex: Yes, I believe that. And that's great. I love the way probably do a TED talk on that. Not everybody can do people that if you're not happy, behaving as if you are do.
• 41:38
  Kelly: Well, okay. Okay. But behaving as if or believing I don't know. I mean, isn't that what isn't that what and, you know, counselors and stuff for for therapists is to
• 41:56
  Alex: the behavior is what you got to do. And then your your And if right, if you start behaving like you're happy, you're happy. I
• 42:07
  Kelly: think that he was oversimplifying it for people people were less. I mean, there were there weren't weren't really psychologists, that sort of thing. So the mind internally was less of a thing. And so what he was what hack to get people there without looking inward. Yeah,
• 42:31
  Alex: just say you think these people were rubes? Yes. You guy were Pope John Paul. The second was a big Dale Carnegie
• 42:43
  Kelly: John Paul by the way Walt Disney my favorite Disney
• 42:47
  Alex: former dirt nap city subject FDR who's in the
• 42:56
  Kelly: my favorite my second favorite Roosevelt know my Teddy and Eleanor.
• 43:02
  Alex: And you know, IBM and AT and T famously would partner employees to Dale Carnegie courses all the time. My some other quotes for you.
• 43:14
  Alex: People rarely succeed unless doing.
• 43:24
  Kelly: I like that. I don't
• 43:26
  Alex: I think research has shown that not to be the case.
• 43:30
  Alex: Yeah,
• 43:30
  Kelly: I mean, listen to Wing Chun right. Everybody have fun huge hit. Why? Because they had fun. I
• 43:40
  Alex: think you'll like this one. Success is getting what what you get.
• 43:46
  Kelly: Woohoo. I think I've heard a variation of that. I
• 43:53
  Alex: If you can't sleep, then get up and do something worrying. It's the worry that gets you not the loss of
• 44:03
  Kelly: Yeah, I've I've become more attuned to that actually.
• 44:08
  Kelly: I'm just laying there with my brain going and I'm like I something and then rather than just tossing and turning
• 44:15
  Alex: that's very Ben Franklin. Yeah, like like a kite. I like this one.
• 44:18
  Alex: Remember today is the tomorrow
• 44:29
  Kelly: that's kind of matrix see. But no, I
• 44:32
  Alex: mentioned we spend all this time worrying about gets here it's never that bad.
• 44:39
  Kelly: Let until it is but yes, I know what you mean.
• 44:41
  Alex: It's never as bad as you think it's gonna be. Inaction breeds confidence and courage.
• 44:48
  Alex: If you want to conquer fear, about it. Go out and get busy.
• 44:55
  Kelly: Sounds like a Henry Rollins song. Give well You it, which I found out was a cover actually. But the first do it. Just go do it. Just get busy. Yeah, get busy with it.
• 45:15
  Kelly: friend of mine a few years back, and he said his dad used I actually am believing it more and more low expectations Which sounds kind of cynical, but it's actually pretty true.
• 45:31
  Alex: Yeah, it does sound cynical at first.
• 45:34
  Kelly: It's, I'll tell you, the thing that always gets me concert, or a movie or something, and I have low my expectation. I'm always just super pleasantly way more fun than I thought it was going to be. That was a expected.
• 45:52
  Alex: And you frequently that's how you describe compared to your expectations, whenever you're evaluating you love Wonka, because you thought it was gonna be
• 46:04
  Kelly: that's exactly right. I was not like into it at all.
• 46:08
  Kelly: like, that was pretty good.
• 46:10
  Alex: And I'm usually the victim, I usually my family I'm expecting way too much from things. I'm constantly they always tell me, you know, you know, it's not gonna be know, they're always trying to temper my expectations. They It's not gonna be like, You think all this people aren't be like that those songs aren't gonna be in this. I better than that. And,
• 46:39
  Kelly: man, yeah, you're setting yourself up. I think Win Friends and Influence People that you agree. Might
• 46:49
  Alex: man. But I don't know, I don't want to live in a world expectations. I like to have part of the fun of life is
• 46:57
  Kelly: Well, you told me you told me that because you're a technical person that everything is magic to you.
• 47:07
  Kelly: sounds like a guy who
• 47:09
  Alex: took it out of context.
• 47:09
  Alex: What I said was anything technology is indistinguishable from magic.
• 47:19
  Kelly: we're doing magic right now.
• 47:21
  Alex: Absolutely. I don't know how people's ears. I don't hit that button, and you can text us Patreon. I
• 47:28
  Kelly: don't know how Patreon works. I don't know how that I just
• 47:32
  Alex: know we're getting super rich from Patreon. Thank you.
• 47:37
  Kelly: bucks a month. I think Remember, we're going to do
• 47:40
  Alex: Carnegie was making 500 bucks a week in 1914. Yeah, if week off of Patreon. Yeah. So pink flux.
• 47:57
  Kelly: Al from Austin,
• 47:59
  Alex: looking at you guys. Oh, yes.
• 48:03
  Kelly: They already are. Tell your friends. Get your friends know how you tell them. You go and you ask them how their day questions. And you say how can I get you involved in this called dirt nap city?
• 48:19
  Alex: How let? What is it? He doesn't say this, but it's one says help me help you. I love
• 48:31
  Kelly: what's it gonna take to get you into this large?
• 48:37
  Alex: Man? Well, I could read you the other 22 principles, get the gist of Dale Carnegie's vibe here. Yeah.
• 48:52
  Alex: about? And I've enjoyed talking about this with you.
• 48:56
  Kelly: so did he. Would he die from old age? No, I
• 49:01
  Alex: don't. I don't ever like to I don't ever like to focus
• 49:05
  Kelly: I thought this podcast was about death. No, in fact,
• 49:09
  Alex: the big misconceptions about this podcast is it says
• 49:16
  Kelly: death. And it's the other Carnegie. It's just
• 49:19
  Alex: about the dead people.
• 49:19
  Alex: He died of Hodgkin's lymphoma.
• 49:25
  Kelly: thing. Are you glad you asked? No. Bummer. Why did we to go there? Alex, I enjoyed it. No, it's actually it's thought Dale Carnegie was related to the Carnegie's that
• 49:41
  Alex: Well, that was his his doing. He Yeah, it worked.
• 49:45
  Kelly: I always thought that people liked complaining. I'm the case. And and now I know a little bit more about an
• 49:56
  Alex: Yeah. Good for you.
• 49:56
  Alex: Thanks, Evan. very
• 50:02
  Unknown: crowded rooms with worry faces find the light and can break the ice a smile can make the day feel nice girl the night into day with the handshake grin that's how the with every smile changing hearts with every influenzae taught us I am missing ears to hear wiping wave silence here to speaking soft speaking we're off same people playing friendship looming in every smile every day same just people play Lightspeed games every smile every