Latest / The Curve / RTC111: FIRE: Financial Independence Retire Early, with Ana Kresina.

Transcript

RTC111: FIRE: Financial Independence Retire Early, with Ana Kresina. · The Curve

• 0:00
  Welcome to Raising the Curth, a podcast designed to teach you everything you need to know
• 0:05
  to be better with your money.
• 0:07
  And the wise words of Amy Shurma were slipping carrots into the brownie recipe.
• 0:11
  I don't really get the saying.
• 0:14
  It's kind of like eating vegetables that actually taste good.
• 0:17
  You know, I'm still not with you.
• 0:19
  Are you on the script?
• 0:21
  It's basically like saying, investing in finance can be boring, but it totally doesn't
• 0:26
  need to be.
• 0:28
  Okay.
• 0:29
  Okay.
• 0:30
  So we're making it fun by putting the carrot.
• 0:32
  Okay.
• 0:33
  The vegetables are good for you.
• 0:34
  It's the brownie recipe.
• 0:35
  Okay.
• 0:36
  We got there.
• 0:37
  Okay.
• 0:38
  Well, you've really got a finance brain.
• 0:39
  Yeah.
• 0:40
  One of us has to.
• 0:41
  This is a joke.
• 0:42
  Okay.
• 0:43
  Come and learn alongside me from Vick Harris, ex-fun manager.
• 0:45
  Well, I'm going to ask all the questions that you wish you could.
• 0:48
  And I'm going to be eating all the brownie you wish you could.
• 0:51
  No.
• 0:52
  It's so not the joke, Vick.
• 0:54
  Okay.
• 0:55
  Just come and talk and learn and laugh with us because together we really can raise the
• 0:59
  curve.
• 1:01
  Anna Christina.
• 1:03
  She is a person that you need to know.
• 1:07
  She's written an amazing book called Kids Ain't Cheap, which as the title suggests is
• 1:11
  about how kids are rather expensive.
• 1:14
  But she's also the head of product and community app Perla, which is an investing app based
• 1:20
  out of Australia.
• 1:21
  And she's from Canada.
• 1:22
  She was super awesome.
• 1:24
  I really liked her energy.
• 1:26
  I felt like she, a lot of people when you interview them, particularly about money, finance,
• 1:31
  and investing can come across.
• 1:33
  I don't know what the word is.
• 1:35
  Like sometimes.
• 1:36
  Part of the regional.
• 1:37
  Yeah.
• 1:38
  Whereas she felt like someone would be like, do you want a cup of tea?
• 1:40
  Yeah.
• 1:41
  Do you want to come sit in my lounge?
• 1:42
  Yeah.
• 1:43
  She's really calming energy.
• 1:44
  Very open and just relatable and like conversational, which we are all about.
• 1:48
  Yes.
• 1:49
  And she was actually a roller derby athlete, which a cute kind of broke them out of the typical
• 1:55
  person to get on the podcast.
• 1:57
  So yeah, we asked a lot about that.
• 1:59
  We spoke.
• 2:00
  I was like, this is a financial podcast.
• 2:01
  Is a financial podcast.
• 2:02
  Like we talked about the roller blazing.
• 2:04
  So what?
• 2:05
  You just had roller on a crash, which other anyway.
• 2:07
  So there's a bit of that as well.
• 2:09
  But we spoke about the fire approach, which is a really aggressive way of retiring early.
• 2:15
  There's lots of people who kind of not live and die by this.
• 2:18
  But I didn't realise it was such a movement and she talks a lot about that and how she got
• 2:22
  into investing.
• 2:23
  And yeah, she shared so many amazing insights.
• 2:27
  I think particularly when it comes to, I mean, obviously she's just running a book on it.
• 2:31
  But the kids and money conversation, which we've had quite a bit.
• 2:34
  Now it's honestly, you think that we're about to pop out a couple of kids.
• 2:37
  Who is Tommy and Art?
• 2:38
  No, God no.
• 2:40
  But I hope that people can, if they're not in the having kids face, that they can also
• 2:45
  take it on board to talk to nieces and if you throw God, daughters, God, sons, you know,
• 2:50
  like just talking to younger people and getting the next generation just interested in investing
• 2:54
  is super, super important.
• 2:56
  So here we go.
• 2:57
  Anna Christina.
• 2:59
  So before we get started into the more juicy stuff of this conversation, I firstly,
• 3:05
  when we were doing research, came across the fact that you are a roller derby.
• 3:11
  And I'm sitting here going, how amazing.
• 3:14
  And also, how did you even become?
• 3:16
  Also, sorry, but this roller derby does fun old-school skate.
• 3:19
  Is that what I'm touching on movies?
• 3:21
  Oh my God, cool.
• 3:22
  Like in the barbie scene when they're going down fairness beach.
• 3:25
  Oh, absolutely.
• 3:26
  It's funny because roller derby was a part of my life.
• 3:30
  And as you get older in your life, you realize you have these phases that you go through.
• 3:35
  And roller derby was like a huge part of it.
• 3:37
  What I loved about it.
• 3:38
  So just for context for people who don't know what roller derby is, it's a full context sport played on roller skates.
• 3:44
  And the premise is that you have a person on each team who is called a jammer.
• 3:48
  They're the ones that score points.
• 3:50
  And everyone else is like a blocker.
• 3:51
  So you try to not let that jammer pass you.
• 3:53
  And if they pass you, the team scores a point.
• 3:57
  If you hold them back, that's kind of the idea.
• 3:59
  So it's full contact.
• 4:00
  Lots of hitting, lots of blocking.
• 4:02
  It's very aggressive.
• 4:03
  It's quite rough.
• 4:04
  Yes.
• 4:05
  Yes.
• 4:06
  And lots of injuries from it as well.
• 4:08
  So it's not like, it's not pretend.
• 4:10
  A lot of people think it's pretend.
• 4:12
  So it's a full context sport.
• 4:13
  I can't remember what year it started out in the States.
• 4:17
  And it just evolved.
• 4:18
  It became a huge movement.
• 4:19
  And at the time, I was living in Canada.
• 4:21
  I heard about it.
• 4:22
  I knew how to ice skate.
• 4:24
  I knew how to rollerblade.
• 4:26
  I thought, well, roller skating shouldn't be that much different.
• 4:29
  And I don't know.
• 4:31
  It just fulfilled my life because it was bringing all these women
• 4:34
  and non-binary people of all different shapes and sizes together.
• 4:37
  It focused on physicality, on your body, what your body can do.
• 4:41
  So in fact, it really increased like your love of body
• 4:45
  and what it could do as opposed to how it looks,
• 4:48
  but what it can do for you.
• 4:50
  So not only is it a movement in that kind of space of loving your body,
• 4:55
  but you had these women from all different demographics
• 4:58
  and socio-economic backgrounds that kind of had to work together as a team.
• 5:03
  And then on top of that, if you've ever played a team sport,
• 5:07
  there's so much benefits about learning about teamwork, working together,
• 5:10
  winning and losing together, exercising, keeping each other motivated.
• 5:15
  So all in all, it was some of my most favorite memorable times in my life.
• 5:20
  And I also got to coach internationally with that as well.
• 5:24
  So if you have a roller derby team near you, check it out.
• 5:27
  See if you can join, because it's amazing.
• 5:30
  Is it still big in the U.S.?
• 5:32
  Yeah, it is.
• 5:33
  And actually, I mean, I was in Canada at the time.
• 5:37
  Yeah, but it's huge in the U.S., it's huge in Canada.
• 5:40
  Some of the best teams come out of the U.K.
• 5:42
  in Australia as well.
• 5:44
  In fact, maybe we should start.
• 5:46
  Do you know what I quite like about the thing that I picked up on
• 5:49
  was the idea of using your body in a different way?
• 5:53
  When I first started even boxing, this is kind of a weird analogy,
• 5:57
  but I remember looking at my friends who had done quite a bit,
• 6:00
  and I'd look at them, they're like, wow, they're so aggressive.
• 6:03
  Look at them punching them.
• 6:04
  And I was kind of saying, and now I go to it, and I'm like,
• 6:08
  yeah, yeah.
• 6:09
  I feel really good putting my body into it, and feeling that strength.
• 6:14
  And I think that as women, when it comes to sport or physical activity,
• 6:18
  a lot of the time, we don't know how to transition into that energetically.
• 6:23
  So I kind of like the idea of starting that early and being able to feel
• 6:28
  and know your innate strength as a woman.
• 6:30
  I was like that when I was in a water polo, and it was the first time,
• 6:35
  you know, when you're younger, you're still discovering your body,
• 6:38
  and you're still discovering what it can do and its changes.
• 6:41
  And I think that was the first time for me playing water polo,
• 6:44
  where I noticed, okay, if I train, I think it was twice a week,
• 6:48
  and do something that I don't normally do, your body's going to change.
• 6:53
  And I could see my arms getting stronger.
• 6:55
  My legs getting stronger.
• 6:56
  I was overall, you know, I had more energy.
• 6:59
  I thought it was at the first time I'd gone, okay, I can actually change my body.
• 7:03
  I don't have to be weak for forever.
• 7:05
  You know, I can actually make changes if I put my mind to it.
• 7:08
  And I think that was also for me.
• 7:10
  And then I found out that water polo actually is quite dangerous.
• 7:13
  And you'll get held on the water and rip each other's tongs off.
• 7:17
  And it got quite aggressive.
• 7:18
  And I was like, okay, no, I'm out.
• 7:19
  I can't imagine you doing water polo.
• 7:21
  Like the idea, if you're doing the egg beta thing, kind of cracks me up.
• 7:24
  But in terms of actual, we digress.
• 7:27
  Very off topic.
• 7:29
  But we obviously would love to speak to you about this.
• 7:31
  So many different things.
• 7:32
  I think one of the things that I don't think our audience has been properly introduced to
• 7:37
  is the idea of the fire movement or what fire means.
• 7:41
  And I reckon when I say that people will be like, fire festival.
• 7:44
  Are we talking about that?
• 7:45
  But actually, it's a really amazing concept.
• 7:48
  And am I right in thinking this is what kind of first got you introduced the idea of investing
• 7:52
  or personal finance and kind of becoming a passion of yours?
• 7:56
  Yeah, it did.
• 7:58
  So just to describe what fire is, it's financial independence retire early.
• 8:03
  And the idea behind this movement specifically is that you try to invest as much money as you possibly can
• 8:09
  because through investing in compound interest, your money grows.
• 8:12
  And the idea is if you do the math and you calculate what your expenses are annually.
• 8:17
  So how much money you spend every year.
• 8:19
  If you save and invest 25 times that you can then retire is the idea.
• 8:25
  Because the math shows and there's a couple studies that work around that.
• 8:29
  So 25 times your expenses.
• 8:31
  So for example, if your expenses are 40,000 a year times 25 is one million.
• 8:38
  So you would need about one million invested in order to retire early.
• 8:42
  And that money would kind of keep you on.
• 8:44
  And some people can do that earlier on in their career.
• 8:46
  And some people later in their life.
• 8:48
  And some people never because again, it's a bit of a privileged idea that you can actually save and invest that.
• 8:54
  It's so much money.
• 8:56
  It does a lot of money.
• 8:57
  Yeah, it's huge.
• 8:59
  But the idea also is in investing is if you start investing, even if it's a small amount, if it's $5, if it's $100, whatever it might be,
• 9:07
  compound interest helps you get there earlier.
• 9:09
  So in fact, you're not going to need to save a million dollars for example.
• 9:13
  You know what I mean?
• 9:14
  If you, for example, invest $100 a week for 40 years, that will bring you to a million dollars with compound interest.
• 9:21
  So that's like $800,000 that is compounding over that time.
• 9:25
  You didn't have to save the whole amount if that makes sense.
• 9:29
  I think the thing that you're getting at, I guess the concept is, if you are able to reduce your expenses, you've got less to save.
• 9:36
  Because you're living off less.
• 9:38
  Your lifestyle, your spending less, all of that means that you can retire earlier because you can live off a lower amount.
• 9:46
  So therefore you don't have to invest as much.
• 9:49
  Is that kind of, yeah, exactly.
• 9:52
  I'm going to be in a bit of a shit storm because I feel like I have very high expenses and I have a very expensive taste.
• 9:59
  So I'm going to be probably having to invest for a long time.
• 10:03
  Yeah, yeah.
• 10:04
  And the idea is this movement isn't for everyone, right?
• 10:06
  Like not everyone wants to retire early.
• 10:08
  Lots of people are happy working.
• 10:10
  This is just a movement that has come up over the last, I guess, decade maybe that people were like, well, I do want to retire early.
• 10:17
  How do I make more money? How do I get ahead?
• 10:20
  And whether fire is for you or not, investing still works the same, right?
• 10:24
  Compounding of your money still works the same.
• 10:26
  And I think it's kind of flipping the conversation.
• 10:28
  We've always talked about you will need X amount to retire on when you turn 65 years of age because that's the retirement age in New Zealand.
• 10:36
  Whereas I think fire is flipping it on its head and going, okay, how much will you need to retire earlier?
• 10:43
  To retire 50 to retire 40 and kind of giving the power back to the individual to come up with that figure and be like, hey, actually, I want to retire 40.
• 10:53
  Okay, I'm going to have to invest a lot more or reduce my expenses in order to achieve that.
• 10:59
  Yeah, exactly.
• 11:00
  So it's kind of like, how do you take the power back now?
• 11:03
  It doesn't happen easily.
• 11:05
  It takes a lot of sacrifice to so to your point, if you do have high expenses, it might be really hard to reduce your expenses or to find that room to invest.
• 11:14
  But it is a movement that's out there.
• 11:16
  And there's compound interest calculators that people can use online to actually play with those numbers to be like, could I retire in 30 years or 40 years as opposed to at 65?
• 11:25
  What year are you retiring?
• 11:28
  This is a very good question.
• 11:31
  I'm going to be honest, if I didn't have kids, I probably would have been retired right now.
• 11:37
  That's the truth.
• 11:38
  My partner and I often chat about that.
• 11:40
  Yeah, because when I was just working and I had no partner, no kids, when I came to Australia, I was living quite frugally because in Canada, my income was quite low.
• 11:52
  And when I came here, I was just living frugally, eating cheaply and living cheaply, living with people.
• 11:58
  And I was able to save a lot of money.
• 12:00
  And that's kind of what introduced me to the fire movement.
• 12:02
  I was like, what do I do with this? Do I buy a property?
• 12:04
  I don't know. Like, how do rich people do it?
• 12:06
  And that's how I started googling how to invest because that's what rich people did.
• 12:10
  I didn't know at the time, right?
• 12:12
  And that's how I came across this fire movement.
• 12:15
  So if I can take all my savings and invest as much as possible, that's going to snowball over time.
• 12:21
  And that's what I did.
• 12:22
  So it propelled me to get to that point faster.
• 12:25
  Whereas if I started investing in my 40s, I would have to invest a huge amount as opposed to a smaller amount in my 20s or 30s.
• 12:34
  So what would you say to people who are listening and think, oh, that sounds a great idea.
• 12:39
  But I'm going to have to sacrifice a lot to be able to do that.
• 12:43
  How can we motivate people in this lifestyle of instant gratification and constantly wanting more and better and bigger to flip that mindset and start to think about investing in a different way?
• 12:56
  Because I'd love to find the motivation.
• 12:58
  It's a trade-off, right? It comes down to what your values are.
• 13:02
  And there's a couple of different exercises that people can do.
• 13:05
  You can write down what your values are and make sure that you align with it.
• 13:09
  I know some people what they do is every time they purchase something, they put emotions against it.
• 13:14
  Did that make me feel happy? Did it not?
• 13:16
  There's a couple of different ways to do that where you can really look at your values and be like,
• 13:20
  do I want to spend this money or not?
• 13:22
  Now, the cost of living is really high right now, which makes it really difficult to be able to invest, be able to save.
• 13:29
  So sometimes those compromises happen.
• 13:31
  And I think in your case, as you're saying, it's like your mental health was potentially more important than the savings that you'd have living at home.
• 13:38
  You know what I mean? And that's completely valid, right? That's a value to you.
• 13:42
  But often in those cases, you need to weigh up where your values are at.
• 13:46
  And for me at the time, it was about investing as much as possible.
• 13:51
  Now, my values have changed. I have kids. My life is different.
• 13:55
  You know, my priorities have changed, but that's the motivation part is really, really hard.
• 14:00
  And that's why I often say, like, go use a compound interest calculator.
• 14:04
  So you can actually do the math of, if I only save $100 a week or $5 a week, where will that get me?
• 14:11
  How much money will I have? And is it worth giving up some of the conveniences in my life to get there sooner?
• 14:18
  And if it's not, then that's okay. That's the choice that you've made for yourself as well.
• 14:22
  You're like, I give up my kids.
• 14:24
  I don't want them anymore.
• 14:25
  They took.
• 14:28
  I've calculated and you're going to cost me, you're going to cost me too much.
• 14:31
  You have to go. I'm sorry.
• 14:33
  Yeah. But even if I think about like, I've reached, you know, how addicted it is to your nails?
• 14:37
  Don't I don't know if anyone here, like, I know Vic sometimes does.
• 14:39
  Do you get your nails done at all on it?
• 14:41
  Uh, very rarely if I have a situation. Yeah.
• 14:45
  Yeah. So like, this is the thing I never, ever, ever used to.
• 14:48
  And recently, I've done it a couple of times, like maybe three or four times.
• 14:52
  And I am addicted. Like, I've never had nails this long ever.
• 14:56
  I'm loving it. Like the amount of time I steer at them and like touch things.
• 15:01
  I love it. I feel so put together.
• 15:03
  But I was thinking the other day, like if I was to take that because in London, this is,
• 15:08
  it's probably about 45 pounds realistically, which is nearly 90 New Zealand dollars.
• 15:13
  If I just eliminated that, that's like a hundred dollars a month.
• 15:18
  And I mean granted, I'm not doing that all the time.
• 15:20
  But I do think you're right. Like itemizing everything you're spending money on.
• 15:24
  So like, yes, there's the essentials. But what above that?
• 15:28
  Also having that dollar figure, as you say, like using a compound calculator to be able to
• 15:33
  then go, okay, I can know the monetary amount in 20 years time if I gave this up.
• 15:39
  Is it worth it? Yes or no?
• 15:41
  It's almost like your own little social experiment with yourself.
• 15:44
  I also think that needs to rebrand the compound interest calculator.
• 15:48
  It's not so lame.
• 15:49
  It's the most exciting tool that I want to use.
• 15:51
  We need to make it like a, how to get rich calculator roll.
• 15:54
  Yeah, how to get rich sooner, it calculators.
• 15:56
  Just going back to the nails thing.
• 15:59
  It doesn't have to be one or the other.
• 16:01
  You don't have to give it up.
• 16:02
  You can say, hey, I'm going to do it every two months or every three months.
• 16:04
  And then it becomes more of a tree.
• 16:06
  The other thing that research shows is that if you do things that make you happy
• 16:10
  and maybe make it less frequent, you, you almost covered it more.
• 16:14
  It's more exciting.
• 16:15
  You look forward to it.
• 16:16
  Like in three months time, I'm going to do this special thing.
• 16:18
  So it doesn't have to be one or the other, but it does go back to your values
• 16:21
  and the money.
• 16:22
  That's exactly my thinking.
• 16:24
  I was like, I used to eat them every two weeks.
• 16:26
  And I was like, this is ridiculous.
• 16:28
  And then I've now given myself a role.
• 16:30
  I'm only going to get it when I go on holiday.
• 16:32
  So it is like a dream.
• 16:33
  And now I'm like looking forward to getting me so nice when they're done.
• 16:37
  You know, rather than just getting used to it and being like, yeah, cool.
• 16:40
  I am loving slightly more frugal than honestly.
• 16:44
  You are a new woman since being on a less gallery.
• 16:47
  We had a meeting the other day and I was like, so I guess what I've started to do.
• 16:50
  And she was like, what?
• 16:51
  I was like, we never I go to buy something.
• 16:54
  If I then decide I'm not going to buy it, I transfer that money into a separate bank account.
• 16:58
  And because for me, I find it really hard.
• 17:02
  If it's just a coffee there or a breakfast there or a Pilates class or something or a dress or nails, for example.
• 17:10
  I'm like, oh, but it's only 20 bucks.
• 17:12
  It's only $30.
• 17:13
  It's only, it's only a few pounds.
• 17:15
  I find it really hard to comprehend.
• 17:17
  But also you've never been in a position financially where you've won, not for a long time.
• 17:21
  Where you've had to choose one or the other.
• 17:23
  And now that you are, because you're on a start-up salary, you're like having to get creative and actually think about it.
• 17:28
  Which I think is awesome for a content perspective.
• 17:31
  I'm like, yeah, keep doing it.
• 17:33
  Because I would never have thought of that.
• 17:35
  It's such a good idea.
• 17:36
  And I'm saying slowly add up and I'm like, oh, okay.
• 17:39
  So if I do cut back on little things throughout my day, my week, my year, I'm actually going to have.
• 17:44
  Quite a bit of money to invest.
• 17:46
  And so it's kind of, I'm just coming up with creative ways that work for me.
• 17:50
  And so.
• 17:51
  Yeah.
• 17:52
  Well, that's why money has such a behavioral emotional aspect to it, right?
• 17:56
  It's not just the math.
• 17:57
  It's not the, you know, get rich calculator, compound interest calculator.
• 18:01
  It's not just the math.
• 18:02
  It's literally the little behavioral things that we do that can get us richer.
• 18:08
  And the mind games for lack of a better word that we have to play with ourselves where it's like,
• 18:13
  I will transfer that money across when I didn't purchase that because you get that instant gratification in a different way.
• 18:20
  Yeah.
• 18:21
  But the other day, I love that.
• 18:22
  I have to say, I was like, eat the banana in the car, eat the banana in the car.
• 18:26
  And then I was like, I'm going to order eggs on toast.
• 18:30
  But then I was eating it.
• 18:32
  I was eating the eggs on toast and I felt so guilty.
• 18:36
  Come on.
• 18:37
  You had a banana in the car.
• 18:38
  You could have eaten it.
• 18:39
  You know, like.
• 18:40
  I love this.
• 18:41
  This is fucking cute.
• 18:43
  And like, honestly, our whole new side did it.
• 18:45
  I'm really here for it.
• 18:46
  Oh, God.
• 18:47
  Anna, I would love to talk to you about because you mentioned a few times you would have been able to retire if you hadn't had kids.
• 18:54
  Have you done the numbers on how much it costs to raise a child?
• 18:58
  I mean, I know that you're in Australia, so it's going to vary.
• 19:01
  We have a people listening to this podcast, but the cost of that.
• 19:04
  And then also, how did you manage to plan for that?
• 19:07
  Because I imagine it's not something you were just like, oh, I'm going to have a baby.
• 19:11
  Oh, my God.
• 19:12
  It's going to cost me X.
• 19:13
  You would have actually put a bit of thought and time into figuring out how to do that.
• 19:17
  Those are all great questions.
• 19:19
  I think I didn't think I wanted to have kids ever.
• 19:22
  So I'm turning 40 soon, actually.
• 19:26
  So I know.
• 19:28
  Yeah.
• 19:29
  I'm very excited to move into this new decade.
• 19:32
  So I'm celebrating.
• 19:33
  I love birthdays.
• 19:34
  But when I was in my 20s, I didn't want to have.
• 19:37
  Yeah.
• 19:38
  Yeah.
• 19:39
  I love birthdays.
• 19:40
  And we should celebrate them.
• 19:41
  Right?
• 19:42
  We should celebrate them.
• 19:43
  Day we were born.
• 19:44
  What's not to celebrate?
• 19:45
  Exactly.
• 19:46
  We're alive.
• 19:47
  So when I was in my 20s, I didn't think I wanted to have kids.
• 19:50
  I was having too much fun, traveling, partying, working hard, not sleeping, doing all the things you do in your 20s or at least I did.
• 19:56
  Other 20 year olds were doing that.
• 19:58
  And then when I kind of.
• 19:59
  Yeah.
• 20:00
  Yeah.
• 20:01
  Okay, good.
• 20:02
  And then when I got into my 30s, I was like, I think I do want to have kids.
• 20:04
  I don't have a partner.
• 20:05
  I'm.
• 20:06
  I'm.
• 20:07
  You know, I've been focusing on my career.
• 20:09
  And I wanted to say that money.
• 20:10
  So in the same way that I was talking about, I started investing.
• 20:13
  I started putting money aside.
• 20:14
  And I realized if I do want to have kids and I don't have a partner,
• 20:17
  I should really think about this.
• 20:18
  So I went and I froze my eggs.
• 20:20
  That was one of the first things that I wanted to do.
• 20:22
  And then I realized like,
• 20:24
  if I don't have a partner, I can still have a kid like technology is amazing.
• 20:27
  IVF is great.
• 20:28
  And I should save for that.
• 20:29
  So I started putting that money away.
• 20:31
  Just so happened that I met a partner and ended up having having kids with my partner.
• 20:37
  And because I was thinking about it ahead of time, I did have some money and savings.
• 20:41
  And I was already on this fire journey of investing.
• 20:44
  But what I didn't know once you have kids is actually how damn expensive they are.
• 20:48
  So in Australia, it's somewhere around $450,000 to raise a kid from birth to 18 years.
• 20:56
  So that's kind of everything in between.
• 20:58
  But with inflation is probably closer to half a million dollars per child.
• 21:02
  Oh my God.
• 21:05
  I cannot afford it.
• 21:06
  I can't even afford my own lifestyle.
• 21:08
  Leave it alone in child.
• 21:10
  God.
• 21:11
  Yeah, well, just you're not paying that money up front, right?
• 21:14
  You're paying it over over 18 years.
• 21:17
  But still, it's expensive.
• 21:18
  And recently, researchers come out that kids still cost parents money in their 20s and so forth
• 21:25
  because they want to help them out, maybe with a down payment on a house.
• 21:28
  So when I realized that that was really expensive, I, oh, my second parental leave.
• 21:33
  I was like, I don't think anyone's talking about finances and kids and actual cost.
• 21:38
  And what you need to think about before having kids, how to prepare yourself.
• 21:42
  What are the conversations you can have with your partner if you have one?
• 21:46
  And then the impact of taking parental leave too.
• 21:50
  A lot of parents, predominantly a mother, takes parental leave in Australia.
• 21:54
  On average, an Australian woman earns around $100 million less than Australian men across her career.
• 22:01
  If that average woman of 25 years old today has at least one child,
• 22:05
  they can expect to earn two million less over their lifetime.
• 22:09
  And that's often because they take parental leave and they look after their kids.
• 22:13
  They're earning capacity drops.
• 22:15
  Their ability to, to progress in their career drops.
• 22:19
  And they also don't have as much retirement savings in their money.
• 22:24
  So we see a lot of women that enter poverty or homelessness.
• 22:29
  And that's often due to the fact that they chose to look after their family, unfortunately.
• 22:35
  And so what do you think is, I guess, some steps for women to ensure that they don't end up in those financial positions
• 22:42
  or financial disadvantages?
• 22:44
  Because, I mean, we talk about, and exactly what we're both doing here is education.
• 22:50
  But I feel like it's going to take a long time to change.
• 22:55
  And so I guess having conversations with your partner or lobbying your workplace
• 23:01
  to have better parental leave policies.
• 23:03
  What are some more, I guess, more instant fixes?
• 23:06
  I mean, we'd all love to see policy changes and governmental changes.
• 23:10
  I mean, I completely agree with you.
• 23:12
  And I have been involved in lobbying because I feel very passionate about this.
• 23:15
  But some of the things that you can do instantaneously as an individual.
• 23:19
  We had a, or just on that, we had a female prime minister who had a child while she was in power and leadership.
• 23:26
  And I was like, this, I was like, hello, yeah, this is exactly what we need.
• 23:30
  She's going to make huge reforms with parental leave and everything.
• 23:35
  And I think she added a few extra weeks.
• 23:37
  And I was just like, oh, this was your one chance to be that anyway.
• 23:40
  Yeah.
• 23:41
  Anyway, yeah.
• 23:42
  It's hard.
• 23:43
  It's hard to get behind.
• 23:44
  And, you know, you see these questioning of like, our population is dropping.
• 23:49
  Or, you know, how do we, how do we build out a economy with immigrants or with childbirth?
• 23:55
  Well, the things that we can do is actually supporting parents.
• 23:58
  That's right.
• 23:59
  Like, that's, that's the number one thing when it comes to early childhood education.
• 24:03
  Child care.
• 24:04
  Those are things that we can do.
• 24:06
  But some of the things that you can do as an individual instantaneously is financial literacy is probably number one.
• 24:12
  So if you're, you know, I don't, I don't want people to be listening to this and be overwhelmed by this fire movement.
• 24:17
  There's just small things that people can do by, by putting away some money aside, saving, investing, getting ahead, just understanding their own rights.
• 24:27
  And if you're partnered as well, make sure you have some money aside.
• 24:30
  And we know, we never want to think about it.
• 24:32
  But in the case that, you know, there's a divorce or a separation or, or a breakup, you want to have some kind of safety net on the side.
• 24:40
  And, you know, if that's absolutely crucial and important in so many ways.
• 24:45
  So anything that you can do to kind of financially get ahead to teach yourself about finances is going to be beneficial.
• 24:51
  Also, just, just preparing ahead of time, having a budget, looking at where you're spending your expenses.
• 24:56
  And also, if you're planning on having kids, just have an idea of how much that's going to cost you and how much money you can kind of save ahead of time, especially if you're planning on taking parental leave.
• 25:06
  Yeah.
• 25:07
  Sometimes it happens where you, you know, you're like, surprise and pregnant.
• 25:10
  There's not much you can do about it.
• 25:12
  You like to do it nine months, you've got nine months, quick, quick, quick.
• 25:14
  Yeah.
• 25:15
  Yeah.
• 25:17
  But the thing also is, is that you don't have to buy everything brand new.
• 25:21
  We got so much of our stuff secondhand.
• 25:24
  Yes, our babies are so precious to us.
• 25:27
  But they don't care if they're in secondhand clothes, they don't care if the cot or the crib is secondhand, they don't notice that stuff.
• 25:35
  So if we as parents look at the things we're valuing is time with my kid.
• 25:39
  And that's the big motivation for me for early retirement is time with my family, time with my kids and money is time.
• 25:46
  The more money I spend, the more I have to work, which means I'm giving up my time.
• 25:50
  So the less money I spend, the more time I have for my family, for myself.
• 25:55
  And that's how I think about it often.
• 25:57
  It's like, do we have to buy that brand new?
• 25:59
  Like, my kid has a secondhand bed.
• 26:01
  Does my kid care?
• 26:02
  No, not at all.
• 26:03
  Yeah.
• 26:04
  And I think it's more of a parent's thing.
• 26:05
  It's more that the parents care.
• 26:07
  You know, what they're what they're viewed like as parents or what their friends will judge them on or other parents.
• 26:13
  You know, there's that whole keeping up with the Joneses in terms of.
• 26:16
  And also this is my first born and I want.
• 26:18
  I want the best for this for this child.
• 26:20
  I want to provide them with with all these great things.
• 26:23
  But really, yeah, like you say, they're not going to notice they're still going to be fine.
• 26:27
  So that argument, Anna doesn't hold up does it when it's like I want the best of my child.
• 26:31
  It's like I can understand that if it came to opportunities or extracurricular activities or building their education or any of that stuff.
• 26:39
  But materials share my clothes.
• 26:42
  That's why honestly, even like I've got a goddaughter and I find, you know, birthdays and Christmases come along.
• 26:48
  And I feel this, oh, should I need to go buy some toys or some clothes?
• 26:54
  And I was like looking at friend makes these really cute baby pants.
• 26:57
  And I thought, oh, these would be so cute for Ivy.
• 27:00
  But then if I was to go and invest that $80.
• 27:03
  Yeah, for her.
• 27:05
  I would way rather do that.
• 27:07
  But I have this sort of guilt or like, oh, I'm being a shit godmother because I'm not just sharing her with stuff.
• 27:12
  You know, but it's really changing that mindset of like, well, what is it good for the baby?
• 27:17
  Not for me or for my friend.
• 27:19
  It's like the baby doesn't care about the stuff.
• 27:21
  I was like it.
• 27:22
  And my niece and nephew came over and they were like, etching for their presence.
• 27:27
  And my niece, a blesser, she's four.
• 27:29
  She reaches for these two cards, which have her name on it and her brothers, whose one and a half.
• 27:34
  And she goes, let's open these ones. Let's open these ones.
• 27:36
  And I was like, oh, I don't think those are the ones that you want to open first.
• 27:39
  And it was just a card that had written, I've invested $100 for your Christmas present.
• 27:45
  And she opened it. She can't read.
• 27:47
  And she's like, what is it? What is it to my sister?
• 27:50
  And I was like, oh, that's fine.
• 27:52
  We can explain it to her later.
• 27:54
  You know, it was like, she obviously wanted a toy or something.
• 27:57
  And then I instantly felt like, oh, I kind of should have got them something materialistic as well because they're kids.
• 28:05
  But then I thought, I sat there and I was like, let's kind of try and explain.
• 28:10
  Even though she's only four years old, what I've done, rather than just dismissing it as like, oh, you don't need to understand.
• 28:15
  I was sitting there and I was like, what I've done is I've given you some money that's going to grow to more money in the future.
• 28:22
  Yeah, I tried, she didn't really care.
• 28:25
  But it was having those conversations early on in terms of investing, which I think is also really important for kids and in teaching and the value of things.
• 28:35
  And I know there's something that you're super passionate about.
• 28:38
  Do you have any tips for parents as well about teaching kids about investing or teaching kids about the value of things and how much things cost.
• 28:47
  Yeah, and what age you start that.
• 28:49
  Well, what you did was absolutely awesome, I think.
• 28:52
  Even at age four, they might not understand investing or what that means or why I need money or how it works.
• 28:59
  But even just hearing about it will allow kids to understand it as they continue to grow.
• 29:06
  I think my kids for doesn't really understand money.
• 29:10
  You know, we went to the garage sale the other day and using physical cash to give someone to get something is an experience for them.
• 29:17
  Like who uses physical cash.
• 29:19
  So talking about it at a young age is really important.
• 29:22
  And especially just kind of neutrally, right.
• 29:25
  Often money can be heated, you know, like I lost this much money or, you know, our car costs this much or groceries are really expensive.
• 29:33
  Those can be quite negative in terms of tone and kids pick up on that.
• 29:38
  But if we talk about it in a really kind of neutral way, they'll start to grasp those ideas.
• 29:43
  By age seven, kids already have a basic understanding of money and budgeting.
• 29:47
  Like that's quite young.
• 29:49
  And when it comes to delayed gratification and we see this quite a bit in money as well.
• 29:54
  Like I need to save up so that I can invest or go on a trip or whatever you're saving for.
• 29:59
  Delayed gratification in kids as well, not not around money, but just in general.
• 30:04
  Ends up giving them better outcomes in the future because they learn how to control and understand delaying things.
• 30:12
  And this there's this famous marshmallow study that maybe you guys have heard about it about kids getting one marshmallow.
• 30:18
  If you didn't eat it in whatever 15 minutes, you'll get a second.
• 30:21
  And the kids who waited to get that second marshmallow had better outcomes in their life than those who are like, I can't wait.
• 30:27
  I'm going to eat this right away.
• 30:29
  And so those things all come back to money as well, talking about it at an early age.
• 30:33
  Yeah, and I think we underestimate how much of a sponge kids are and how much they pick up on.
• 30:39
  Rather than just being like, oh, you won't understand or you're too young, I won't explain it.
• 30:44
  Explain it and let them realize or figure out what they what they're picking up, like even going to the garage.
• 30:49
  So yeah, and handing over money and then getting something in exchange or even doing tours and working for money.
• 30:56
  All of that might seem so little to us or so insignificant, but to their little brains.
• 31:02
  They're slowly picking up on the fact like, okay, I have to do hard work.
• 31:06
  If I want to get money, so then I can go buy the ice cream or the toy that I want to you know that that whole movement and cycle of money.
• 31:14
  They're slowly picking up on.
• 31:16
  Yeah, and the in the delay gratification.
• 31:18
  I think I want to do that with my kids, but I'm just so scared that when I have kids that they'll just be like, Oh, give me all the marshmallows.
• 31:24
  And I'll be like, no, I'm going to like gratification.
• 31:28
  Oh gosh, it's a skill.
• 31:30
  It's a skill and even as adults, we struggle with it, right?
• 31:32
  It's like, should I go get my nails done or do I put that money aside and do it at a special occasion?
• 31:38
  Like, we're continuously learning as individuals as people, right?
• 31:42
  And as kids is exactly the same way.
• 31:44
  I think just some of the most important things that you can do is a parent or, you know, as an aunt or an uncle or anyone in a kid's life is just talking about the value of money.
• 31:53
  Having really normalized conversations around around it that aren't emotional in the sense of positive and negative because we all have money stories, right?
• 32:03
  We we've all experienced or have a relationship with money that we've picked up from our parents where their parents were frugal or they were spenders.
• 32:10
  That has affected us and that will also affect our kids and as they grow bringing them into real life.
• 32:16
  Situations or examples are so helpful.
• 32:19
  In my book, I talk to a parent who would take their kid shopping and and be like, here's the budget.
• 32:26
  Go and buy these items and see how many items you can do within this budget.
• 32:30
  Like, that sounds like a such a simple thing.
• 32:32
  We do that all the time.
• 32:33
  We have to go do groceries.
• 32:34
  But for a kid, it's an activity that is exciting.
• 32:36
  It's something new.
• 32:37
  They have to think they're problem solving and it gives them a real life experience to really think about how money is being used.
• 32:44
  And what about children who are now adults listening to this podcast that have had those negative relationships with money or negative connotations money growing up?
• 32:56
  How do they unlearn that later in life?
• 32:58
  Because I think there is a lot of instances of people that were spoken to and certain aspects of my life that have been a negative connotation money and I know so far as well.
• 33:07
  Yeah, how do you unlearn that?
• 33:09
  Because I'm assuming that would be quite difficult.
• 33:11
  Yeah, one of the first chapters in my book talks about that. It's just about money beliefs.
• 33:15
  We all carry them, right?
• 33:17
  And I have a parent in the book that talked about how their father was a gambler and how that affected their money or their family and how their mother would be like, hey, can I borrow some money from your piggy bank?
• 33:28
  I'll pay it back on Thursday because that's the day that she would get paid.
• 33:32
  Obviously, this is going to have a huge impact on us as adults.
• 33:36
  And what we can do is kind of sit down about all the beliefs that we have, whether it's money is the root of all evil, I don't deserve enough.
• 33:42
  I'll never have enough money in my life.
• 33:45
  Working hard is the only way to make money or whatever belief you might have and sit down and unpack that.
• 33:52
  Where did that come from?
• 33:53
  Where did that first memory come from?
• 33:55
  And why is it there?
• 33:57
  And what do I want to change about it?
• 33:59
  And what I want to change about it is that we can do is actually re-identify ourselves.
• 34:04
  So if we think, hey, you know, I'm a spender, I'm a spender, I keep saying I'm a spender, I'm always going to spend.
• 34:10
  If we don't want to be a spender, we can start changing that dialogue with ourselves.
• 34:14
  Actually, I'm not a spender.
• 34:16
  I'm more cognizant of how I'm spending my money.
• 34:18
  And just reframing it in a way will enable you to also make those changes.
• 34:23
  There's a famous book, Atomic Habits.
• 34:26
  James Claire, I think a lot of people love it.
• 34:28
  So great.
• 34:29
  But a lot of what he says as well is if you identify with, you know, an athlete, I want to be a marathon runner, you start thinking like a marathon runner.
• 34:37
  And if you want to identify as someone who's good with money or if you want to be good with money, you need to start identifying that you're going to be good with money.
• 34:44
  And that's where those changes come from because you'd be like, well, do I need to go get my nails done?
• 34:49
  Do I need to go buy this dress?
• 34:51
  Well, my new identity is just being more of a conscious spender.
• 34:55
  And a conscious spender doesn't think that I need to wear that dress.
• 34:58
  I have a dress that's suitable for that wedding or whatever it might be.
• 35:01
  And just reframing our mindset also reframes our habits.
• 35:05
  I've definitely tried to practice that more over the last 12 months.
• 35:08
  But all that having that abundant mindset when it comes to money or law or that growth mindset when it comes to money.
• 35:15
  Rather than thinking, oh my gosh, I've got so many bills to pay.
• 35:19
  Oh my god, how am I ever going to get out of this?
• 35:21
  Oh, I'm terrible with money and you start spiraling.
• 35:23
  And that's really hard to get out of rather than being like, oh, I've got so many bills to pay.
• 35:27
  That's okay. I'm going to chip away at them.
• 35:29
  You're one by one.
• 35:31
  And I'm going to get out of this and just having that positive mindset.
• 35:34
  Not just with money, but with everything in life is just, it's crazy how significant it is in what you can achieve.
• 35:41
  And again, yeah, it comes back to that to my habits when he's like, I'm a runner rather than I can't run.
• 35:47
  I'm shit. I'm terrible. I'm not good.
• 35:49
  I'm not going to finish line.
• 35:51
  Yeah, all of that. It's just like, wow, how do I only just learn that now?
• 35:55
  It's a mental game, right?
• 35:57
  Like people think finance is math.
• 35:59
  It's not math. It's behavioral.
• 36:01
  It's emotional. It's habits.
• 36:03
  That's actually where you're going to get your wins.
• 36:05
  So if you can adjust your mindset and your behaviors, the results are going to come.
• 36:10
  I was just going to say for me, like, I think a lot of my money beliefs came from negative connotations with money growing up.
• 36:18
  And not to like really throw shade at my parents.
• 36:20
  They did, you know, absolutely their best in all areas of bringing me up.
• 36:24
  And I'm so grateful for my childhood.
• 36:26
  But your conversations about how much things cost or this feeling of stress or this feeling of like,
• 36:32
  I don't know, I definitely inherited it or absorbed it, I guess.
• 36:37
  And I'd love to know what kind of strategies or things that you've found working with people who have got some quite deep-seated money behaviors that they want to shift.
• 36:48
  What are some ways in which that they could work with those and try and move forward into a new narrative?
• 36:54
  Yeah, the first one is acknowledging it, right?
• 36:56
  Like so many of us have those beliefs, but we don't even want to acknowledge them, right?
• 37:00
  Like, I'm just going to ignore it. That's just the way I am.
• 37:03
  So the first step would be acknowledging it, recognizing what about that you want to change.
• 37:08
  And then making the steps to change it.
• 37:11
  Again, that sounds so much simpler on paper than in reality.
• 37:14
  Okay, let me give an example then on one thing.
• 37:17
  So there's sort of this like, oh, let's try say the buck here and there.
• 37:21
  That's really like deeply ingrained in the way that I behave with spending money.
• 37:26
  So when I was, and I noticed the reason that I picked up on this was because when I was booking flights last year, I was at my one of my parents' places.
• 37:35
  And where we're talking about booking this flight.
• 37:37
  And I like find that really overwhelming in general, just booking travel.
• 37:41
  And I was like, being like, okay, these are the flights I found.
• 37:44
  What do you think blah blah blah?
• 37:46
  And we went on this rabbit hole to try and find cheaper flights.
• 37:49
  And, you know, by the time I did end up buying these cheaper flights and by the time I ended up spending money on an extra night's accommodation.
• 37:58
  And food that, like I ended up spending more money anyway, I should have just like copped the expense of flights.
• 38:04
  But there was something in me that like couldn't deal with parting with this huge amount of money.
• 38:09
  But I think the reason I noticed this like, oh, I want to try and like find a deal or spend less where I can was so highlighted to me because I was doing it with one of my parents.
• 38:19
  And I was like, oh my gosh, this is not a great attitude to have towards money.
• 38:26
  So that particular situation I can recognize that.
• 38:30
  And maybe in times where I want to go and try and save money here, I can also recognize it.
• 38:34
  But how do you then go to the core of it and try and change the belief so that you automatically behave differently?
• 38:40
  Yeah, it's so hard.
• 38:41
  Isn't it interesting how it pops up in the weirdest of ways?
• 38:44
  Because your story is very, like I do stuff like that all the time.
• 38:48
  And then I have to kind of pause and stop and be like, what is the point of this?
• 38:52
  The point is, yes, I want to save money.
• 38:54
  But I have saved money so that I can go on this trip.
• 38:58
  This is my goal. My goal is to go on this trip. I want to have a good time.
• 39:02
  I put money aside.
• 39:04
  So I'm going to let myself spend that money.
• 39:07
  I can kind of try to justify the coffees and the clothes and whatever it is on the side.
• 39:13
  But I have intentionally put this money aside because I'm going on this trip and give yourself some grace because it aligns with what your values are.
• 39:20
  Sometimes I do that. You know what I mean?
• 39:22
  Like looking at your values.
• 39:24
  And if your value is traveling or whatever it is, allow yourself to spend that money because there's always going to be a push and pull.
• 39:29
  What should I spend money on? What should I know? How do I get the best deal?
• 39:32
  Oh, I'm just going to splurge.
• 39:34
  You go back and forth. And I know I do all the time as well.
• 39:37
  But if you sit down and you're like, I have allocated this money.
• 39:41
  My values are XYZ. It's going on a trip. It's having a good time.
• 39:44
  I'm going to hang out with whoever I'm hanging out with. I'm going to adventure.
• 39:48
  Allow yourself to spend that money and don't hold it against yourself for spending that money.
• 39:53
  Even if you've gone a little bit over budget, you've already valued that that is something you want to spend money on.
• 39:59
  I also think so for you like and having your own business.
• 40:04
  Sometimes I think the time spent going down that rabbit hole to save that extra couple of hundred dollars versus you.
• 40:14
  Your time and your resource and your skills as a person.
• 40:17
  What that extra couple of hours could generate for your own personal income.
• 40:21
  You know, the trade off of that.
• 40:23
  I don't know. It's just something that I tend to think of sometimes.
• 40:26
  I'm like, oh, even this weekend, I was like, I could go and do my own gardening because my garden's absolute pig style.
• 40:31
  I mean, I'm like, oh, I actually had rather spend that time doing something else.
• 40:35
  It's going to be more benefit to me in the long run than a couple of our and pay someone else to do it.
• 40:41
  I guess that trade off of what I should spend my time on because I'm...
• 40:46
  It's time this money.
• 40:47
  It's exactly what Anna was talking about.
• 40:49
  It's like time is money and all capacities.
• 40:53
  I think to be able to see yourself as an asset and as a money-making asset changes the whole dynamic of the way that you spend money too.
• 41:02
  Because you know it's coming back again.
• 41:04
  You have this trust in your ability, blah, blah, blah.
• 41:07
  Yeah, I don't know. I think I'm quite self-aware of a lot of my tendencies and I've journaled about them, but they're still so there.
• 41:16
  We're all working on ourselves all the time, actually.
• 41:19
  I'm right now saying my father and his partner are coming to visit.
• 41:24
  I should clean the house. The house needs to be speak and span.
• 41:26
  I have no time. I've got two kids. I'm working. I'm doing all this stuff.
• 41:30
  I'm just going to pay someone.
• 41:31
  Then you realize that it costs a lot of money to get a housekeeper or to clean your house, but where's my time more valuable?
• 41:40
  It goes back to that. Time is money. Money is time. What am I valuing?
• 41:44
  I'm valuing the free time that I have so that I can get some other things done versus the spending that I have or spending that I have to do.
• 41:52
  That's the heart part. We're always going to be battling that.
• 41:56
  How do you integrate that like your values and what in terms of investing and in terms of your passions?
• 42:03
  How do you personally, not you, the greater the greater you?
• 42:07
  How do you invest in terms of making sure that what you're investing in aligns with your values and your passions and all of that?
• 42:14
  I think it comes down to taking that time to really sit with yourself.
• 42:19
  What do you want to spend your money on? How do you want to spend your time?
• 42:22
  What are the things that are important to you and actually you can actually write them down.
• 42:26
  Travel is a really important thing or health and wellness is a really important thing.
• 42:32
  So those are things I'm happy to spend money on and anything that doesn't fall in those categories.
• 42:37
  You know that you don't value or you don't value as much and so they're easier to cut from the thing.
• 42:42
  If we can kind of sit with ourselves and really know ourselves when it comes to our needs, our values, where we want to spend our money,
• 42:49
  it's going to make it easier to then make those financial choices for ourselves.
• 42:53
  Now with the high cost of living, sometimes you can't make those compromises.
• 42:57
  You just have to pay for the groceries. You just have to pay for the early childhood education because childcare is expensive.
• 43:03
  Like there are things you can't compromise on and sometimes life can just be tight but it goes through waves as well.
• 43:10
  So if it's tight financially now, like you were saying before about the abundance mindset, thinking, hey, I can make more money.
• 43:18
  There are other things that I can do and just being really honest with yourself about where you want to see your future self and how potentially you can get there by mapping out what you value and what's important.
• 43:30
  And I thank you so much for all of your wisdom and time and energy. It's so amazing to talk to you and every time we talk,
• 43:39
  like to someone you're on this podcast, I leave and I'm like, oh my god, that was the most amazing interview.
• 43:44
  And I come on socials and I'm like, well, you just had the best interview ever.
• 43:49
  Because I genuinely feel like that after speaking to people like you especially when there's different perspectives and learnings and I know that everyone listening will be like, wow, I've learnt so much.
• 43:58
  I would love to just round off the interview by asking from an emotive lens.
• 44:03
  Why do you think financial literacy is so, so important and why have you chosen the space to dedicate your time and life and resources to try and change and improve?
• 44:14
  I think that the most important thing that we can do for ourselves is have the security to be able to make choices or have opportunities for ourselves.
• 44:23
  The way that we enable that is through finances. If you have savings or you have investments on the side that you can tap into in the case that you need them, that's really going to change your life.
• 44:33
  So if you're in an abusive relationship and you need to get out finances, money is going to help you.
• 44:38
  If you're in a situation where your job is toxic and you really need a break because your mental health is going down the drain, money is going to help you do that.
• 44:46
  So there's so many times in your life where we need the tool of money to make those changes.
• 44:51
  And unless we have the financial literacy, we might not know what to do with money.
• 44:56
  We might have to unpack our money mindset or whatever that might be, but really money is a tool to give us opportunities.
• 45:03
  And especially when it comes to women or parents, they're still the gender gap.
• 45:07
  We still have the motherhood penalty. There are still inequalities that happen in society.
• 45:12
  And therefore money can and having these conversations can change the narrative within that.
• 45:17
  So I feel very passionate about this space because taking control of my own finances has changed my life.
• 45:23
  And I can see it happened for so many other people. So I guess in a way, I'm on a mission to help educate, to help empower, to help other people be able to take their finances in their own hands and live the life that they want to live for them.
• 45:36
  Oh, my drop. Yeah.
• 45:41
  And so for anyone that wants to learn more about you or the work that you're doing, where can they find you and what kind of platforms can they keep up with your work and.
• 45:49
  Yeah.
• 45:50
  Perl or anything.
• 45:51
  So you can find me on my handle, which is my name, Anna Christina, and I'm on all the socials.
• 45:58
  And also my book, Kids Ain't Cheap, which is out wherever you get your books.
• 46:03
  I have another book coming out later this year. So look out for that. I'm not going to give away the name yet, but do look for it.
• 46:09
  And then I have a podcast that I co-host with Tash from Tash Invest. And that's called The Get Rich Slow Club. So you can look that up as well.
• 46:18
  Which we actually have been invited to be on as guests.
• 46:21
  Yeah.
• 46:22
  It's quite exciting.
• 46:23
  Yeah.
• 46:24
  I can't wait. I love being a guest.
• 46:26
  Great title for a podcast as well.
• 46:28
  Yeah. Get Rich Slow Club because it's not a, it's not a get rich quick scheme.
• 46:33
  It takes a while as, as we all know, right?
• 46:36
  It's like the tortoise in the hair. You know, we all want to be the tortoise finish the race.
• 46:40
  Yeah.
• 46:41
  Yeah. We want to finish the race.
• 46:43
  Ideally faster, but it's not true.
• 46:45
  Yeah.
• 46:46
  Maybe we just give it a bit of coffee.
• 46:48
  It's a tortoise with a cup of coffee.
• 46:51
  A little bit quicker.
• 46:53
  That would be great.
• 46:54
  That would be great.
• 46:55
  Yeah.
• 46:56
  Yeah. Thank you so much, Anna.
• 46:57
  And we will chat to you again soon.
• 46:59
  Beautiful. Thanks for having me.
• 47:01
  Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curve.
• 47:04
  These conversations are designed to teach you everything that you need to know to be better with your money.
• 47:08
  From saving, to investing, to talking to your friends about your salaries.
• 47:12
  And if you liked what you heard, we would love it.
• 47:15
  If you could hit subscribe button, please.
• 47:17
  Yes, please.
• 47:18
  Leave a review.
• 47:19
  It'll only take five seconds.
• 47:21
  And it would really make our week, our year, our month.
• 47:24
  Okay.
• 47:25
  Lots of love. See you soon.
• 47:26
  Bye.