Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Daniel Knight, Dave Rennie & Lucy McCaul about their choice of Enemy of the World (5/6)

Transcript

Talks to Daniel Knight, Dave Rennie & Lucy McCaul about their choice of Enemy of the World (5/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a plump. Pen knife for doing quicker
• 0:35
  quicker. Hey, welcome back to the Hamster
• 0:39
  with the Blunt pen knife, the Salamander commentary podcast.
• 0:42
  Oh no, that was French with a little bit of Welsh in it.
• 0:46
  Yes, hello, we're still here. My name is Daniel, and I'm here
• 0:50
  with Dave and Lucy and Joe, and we're about to watch episode 5
• 0:54
  of Enemy of the World, and we're enjoying it tremendously.
• 0:58
  Oh. My God, just say you try, you
• 1:00
  fail so the moon doesn't fall out of the sky.
• 1:05
  Sit down, have a drink. Don't worry about it.
• 1:10
  Yeah. Well, do you know, I did have a
• 1:13
  question for all of you about accents, because I think trout
• 1:20
  of accent is practically indistinguishable from your
• 1:24
  standard Mexican accent. I've dated a Mexican for six
• 1:27
  months and he didn't say anything.
• 1:28
  Last salamander I'm telling. You now.
• 1:32
  If you was to choose, you know which part of the world that
• 1:36
  salamander would come from. What would you choose?
• 1:40
  And please, can we hear a rendition of the accent, Dave?
• 1:44
  Oh Jesus, that's a tough question.
• 1:54
  Where would I want to come from? My first reaction would be
• 2:02
  something like chili or something, but there's no way I
• 2:04
  can chili an accent, you know, just because of penis and all
• 2:08
  that. I think he was still around in
• 2:09
  the 60s was he was. Around to the 80s.
• 2:12
  In the 80s, yeah, so. You know that, yes, Scott's
• 2:16
  accent is so thick and you've got a beautiful Scottish accent.
• 2:19
  Would you do other accents for your acting?
• 2:22
  I try. Scots completely.
• 2:24
  I try. It doesn't come naturally to me.
• 2:27
  But yeah, I've done American and Northern Irish, one or two
• 2:31
  others, but don't get, don't get me to do Northern Irish, please.
• 2:33
  OK, that's great. So we've got one chili in the
• 2:36
  salamander, Lucy. I don't know.
• 2:40
  Again, I don't know. I don't.
• 2:41
  I'm no good at thought experiments because I think
• 2:43
  about them too much. Because if you change where he
• 2:47
  comes from, he he's a stereotype of the South American dictator
• 2:55
  megalomaniac. So if you make him from
• 2:58
  somewhere else, then he would need to a bit like, yeah, like
• 3:01
  James Bond, he would need to become the stereo, that regional
• 3:05
  stereotype as well. So if you said he was from say
• 3:08
  Germany or Scandinavia, he would be the sort of, he'd either be
• 3:14
  close to a real life megalomaniac, which would be
• 3:16
  incredibly tasteless, or he would be the sort of very
• 3:19
  ordered, you know, clinical kind of personality, very buttoned up
• 3:27
  and very and that would be completely different.
• 3:32
  And so we're near. As fun to watch as it is.
• 3:35
  Well, no, because it it's just. Yeah.
• 3:37
  And the impersonation would still be would still be amusing,
• 3:41
  but it would change the character because he's performed
• 3:45
  in that stereotype. So if you move him somewhere
• 3:48
  else, then he has to have the corresponding stereotype too.
• 3:51
  So if he was, if he was from North America, he, he'd be like
• 3:57
  an actual big businessman, wouldn't he?
• 3:59
  Again with the cigar and the swagger and possibly a cat,
• 4:01
  maybe from cowboy type, you know, Texas oil Baron type.
• 4:06
  That would be hilarious, wouldn't it?
• 4:08
  So, so yeah, so I I don't know is the short answer.
• 4:10
  And the other short answer is I can't do accents so.
• 4:13
  I've just realized, you know, I've all asked you all a very
• 4:16
  leading question for you to point out a part of the world
• 4:19
  where a super villain in all probability would come from.
• 4:23
  I'm so sorry, Daniel. What's your answer?
• 4:27
  Oh, I'd make him abrupt. Me.
• 4:31
  Yeah. So what?
• 4:32
  You tried. You failed.
• 4:34
  You did your best, you know, Or make it make him like Donald
• 4:38
  Trump. Yeah.
• 4:41
  They're eating the quarks. They're eating the MAD rules.
• 4:43
  They're eating. Yeah.
• 4:44
  Yeah, you did. Yeah.
• 4:46
  Oh my God, you are an undiscovered talent.
• 4:50
  Interestingly, we're in the same area, Daniel.
• 4:53
  I was going to say Newcastle. You know why a man.
• 4:58
  Don't. Worry about it, let's take over
• 5:01
  the world. Oh no, I'm starting to sound
• 5:03
  like I'm from Mark of the Ronnie now.
• 5:05
  Good grief. Should we go and watch episode
• 5:07
  5? I think we better had yes.
• 5:11
  We've just insulted half the world.
• 5:14
  Well, someone count us in then. 54321.
• 5:23
  I don't think this is showing any signs of running out of
• 5:26
  steam though. Enemy of the World.
• 5:28
  No, no, there's enough plot to fold the section.
• 5:31
  And last episode we didn't have Jamie and Victoria, didn't we?
• 5:35
  They, Deborah Watling and Fraser Heinz were granted a holiday.
• 5:39
  And I don't know if you missed them.
• 5:43
  I don't know. Well, because it's taken you
• 5:45
  somewhere different. It's taken you back to Kent's HQ
• 5:50
  or wherever he happens to be at that point.
• 5:52
  And Salamander's in it. He's in it, but he's in it more
• 5:56
  briefly. And so it's taken you back to
• 5:58
  Astrid and Furrier and and then to the Underground.
• 6:02
  So it's it's taking you somewhere completely different.
• 6:05
  It's not like running on the spot somewhere else.
• 6:09
  The thing you realise at the end of the episode, I think I said
• 6:11
  it is the Doctor still hasn't done anything in this story.
• 6:14
  And because Episode 4 spent so long going, oh, look over there,
• 6:17
  you're not even looking at the Doctor.
• 6:22
  Fix this underneath your trailer, a radio tracking
• 6:24
  device. Oh, I think Colin Douglas is
• 6:27
  marvellous. Yeah, his name?
• 6:30
  Colin Douglas. Yes, it is.
• 6:31
  Yeah. Reportedly hated being this
• 6:35
  completely but. Yes, I know some some people
• 6:39
  have read that into his performance, but I think he's
• 6:42
  more professional than that, really.
• 6:44
  Well, and he's supposed to be not a particularly nice man as
• 6:48
  well. Oh no, no, the head of security
• 6:50
  for Salamander is not going to be a nice person is.
• 6:52
  He I'm just laughing at Trouten's expression.
• 6:54
  You just saw him there, sort of just, you know, yeah.
• 6:58
  Just to think we would have lost all of that.
• 7:00
  Well done. All lost.
• 7:02
  So much of his performance, though, Trouten's performance is
• 7:05
  in his face. The expressions, look at the way
• 7:08
  he's looking up at him, looking really hurt.
• 7:10
  Yeah, big eyes. We are so lucky to have those
• 7:13
  animations and I do think we are, absolutely.
• 7:15
  We miss so much of the nuance, don't we?
• 7:18
  We, we do, unfortunately, yeah. Especially with somebody as a
• 7:21
  face as malleable as it's. So.
• 7:24
  Yeah. The evidence does exist in
• 7:26
  Salamander's records. Literally it does, because
• 7:30
  that's where the lift is. Oh, you know what?
• 7:33
  In a in a story which is full of quite nasty, unpleasant moments,
• 7:38
  I think this might have the most unpleasant.
• 7:41
  Is this the episode where Bennick threatens Vic?
• 7:44
  Yes. Yeah, it's.
• 7:45
  Horrible. It is very, really nasty.
• 7:47
  Very near the knuckle. Yeah, he's upped from smashing
• 7:51
  plates and a couple of episodes ago.
• 7:53
  Yeah. Do you think?
• 7:56
  Like as the outlier of the season then, because obviously
• 7:58
  this is this is not really a base under siege.
• 8:01
  We've got a base, but we've just found out there's a base
• 8:03
  underneath that base. And the stage of the entire
• 8:06
  story is the the world, essentially.
• 8:09
  Do you think that's quite refreshing in five?
• 8:13
  Oh absolutely. I've not done the whole thing
• 8:16
  where people watch from beginning to the end, like go
• 8:20
  through Doctor Who episode That Old Man if I just think that
• 8:22
  would take forever. But.
• 8:24
  People that have done know who have done it.
• 8:26
  I've said it just gets to you get to about this point and you
• 8:28
  are you got fatigue because it's just the same thing over and
• 8:32
  over and all. Yeah.
• 8:35
  Oh God, yeah, this, this just breath of fresh air in this
• 8:39
  season. But I love all the rest of it.
• 8:41
  But it's. I'd argue that Fury from the
• 8:46
  Deep isn't really as much of A base under siege story as people
• 8:50
  think it is. It's.
• 8:51
  Ocean on the siege. It is Ocean, Yeah, because the
• 8:54
  the characters go in various different places.
• 8:56
  They're off at one point in episode 3, they go back to the
• 8:59
  TARDIS, right? Astrid's got a great big gun and
• 9:01
  she's pointing it at him. Yay, that's.
• 9:04
  An enormous that gun isn't. It it is.
• 9:08
  Oh, Douglas, it just looks like. Oh well.
• 9:12
  It's been an ex caller, I said that last episode, but it just
• 9:15
  makes some work. Quite quite call.
• 9:21
  Well, and a bit camp as well, yes.
• 9:23
  Is that how we know he's evil? Properly horrible, isn't he
• 9:27
  really Probably horrible. And one of those tall guards is
• 9:30
  David Troughton. So is it?
• 9:34
  Yeah, I couldn't keep my eyes off this guard when I was
• 9:37
  watching it earlier was. It because he was very pretty
• 9:39
  he's. Behind some guy.
• 9:41
  Look at his lips. My God.
• 9:44
  Oh, sorry, someone changed the subject.
• 9:46
  And the next season you have a similar sort of head of security
• 9:52
  henchman in a Packer or Packer. But I actually think Bennett's a
• 9:59
  lot scarier because Packer's very often played for comedy.
• 10:02
  Yes, yeah, again, he's got the dodgy haircut as well.
• 10:06
  It's it's a figure of fun. But, but, but sometimes bullies
• 10:09
  are you look, you look at some people who are bullies and it's
• 10:14
  sort of like they've this, they've got a very, they've got
• 10:17
  a massive inferiority complex which then turns into a
• 10:20
  superiority complex. So they've got to be bullies.
• 10:22
  They've got to put people down. They've got to be the what?
• 10:25
  They've got to be the number one, and I think that's what
• 10:27
  Packer and Bennick are. Yeah, but I think with Bennig, I
• 10:30
  just think he likes her people. Yeah, yeah, he does.
• 10:33
  And and also, he's in it for himself, Packer.
• 10:37
  Competent like Packer? Packer is is is loyal up until
• 10:41
  the very last minute, isn't he? He shows a few signs of of
• 10:45
  pushing against form, but he doesn't.
• 10:48
  Mostly he just sort of rolls his eyes and gets on with it and he
• 10:51
  doesn't. It isn't until the wheels really
• 10:52
  start to come off that he starts to lose faith.
• 10:54
  But. But I get the sense very
• 10:56
  strongly that Bennick is just he's just going to climb up the
• 10:59
  ladder as far as he can, by whatever means he can, and enjoy
• 11:03
  himself on the way. I can imagine he's done some
• 11:06
  things to get where he is. Well, yes, that's what we're
• 11:08
  supposed to think, isn't it? Yeah.
• 11:10
  Did you see Trout with the gun? Then he was like full of
• 11:13
  confidence and then he sort of threw it at him and then he
• 11:16
  looked terrified when it was pointed at him.
• 11:18
  He does those transitions so well.
• 11:20
  Yeah. He's such a great actor.
• 11:23
  I mean, we, we weren't lucky to have him, right?
• 11:25
  Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely.
• 11:29
  And this is showing, this is showing the head of security to
• 11:34
  be almost a man of principle because they're saying he's
• 11:39
  saying I must be mad to trust you.
• 11:41
  But they so he he knows that something very fishy is going on
• 11:46
  and he's prepared to investigate.
• 11:52
  But he has been endorsing a system he knows is corrupt.
• 11:56
  Oh, absolutely, yes. So, but this is the point where
• 11:58
  this is the point where he think perhaps he thinks that it's
• 12:00
  going to give him an opportunity to jump ship.
• 12:03
  Maybe he thinks, well, this. Is any of them Lucy?
• 12:06
  It's going to, if it's all going to collapse, then I want to be,
• 12:08
  I want to end up on the right side so well.
• 12:10
  Nice Charles Ken, he seems like a reliable bloke.
• 12:14
  Oh. Dear old Bill Kerr, Yes, from
• 12:17
  Hancock's Half Hour. What do they think of Swan?
• 12:21
  Is he the leader in the underground base?
• 12:24
  He's a bit more convincing than Edith from a lower lowering
• 12:27
  invasion on a dialysis. She's.
• 12:28
  Terrifying. She.
• 12:31
  She's really frightening. You.
• 12:32
  I would. I wouldn't want to cross.
• 12:34
  Yeah, she'll cross her. She's really frightened when
• 12:36
  you're used to watching Carmen Silvera playing Edith from a
• 12:39
  lower low. Oh yes, watching her playing
• 12:41
  Ruth is a huge, a huge shock, to be honest.
• 12:44
  How are you? What are you doing with?
• 12:46
  Your arms around that servant girl.
• 12:48
  You. Stupid.
• 12:50
  Woman and there's a. Box like that.
• 12:53
  Box of milk and she said you're. In the reminder room.
• 12:56
  A box of milk. I mean, he's a.
• 12:58
  Very soggy quick but. Some lady cheap Sully here,
• 13:00
  doesn't he? Keeping the the newspaper just a
• 13:02
  tiny bit manages to. Oh.
• 13:04
  I know, yeah. I mean the the fact that that
• 13:08
  little shred of newspaper brought down his whole facade.
• 13:12
  And it had the full headline as well.
• 13:14
  Linear. Oh, Colin, please, just.
• 13:21
  I do love, don't you love, the way that Salamander knows we're
• 13:23
  not there yet, but when he still tries to go, well, yeah, of
• 13:25
  course, they've got a sort of society up there.
• 13:28
  He's going. Yeah.
• 13:30
  Just just trying to keep him on his way.
• 13:32
  Ferry his way out. Yeah, all the mutants go on
• 13:34
  holiday cruises together. Well, what is he going to see?
• 13:40
  She's. She's a little bit drippy as
• 13:41
  well, to be honest. She looks a bit like in the
• 13:44
  Harry Potter films. There's a there was a character
• 13:48
  who looks like that. Is it?
• 13:50
  I want to say Luna Love God or something but I don't know if
• 13:52
  that's. Luna Lovegood.
• 13:54
  Lovegood, right, with some of the blonde hair.
• 13:57
  You are a fan of Star Trek. Look at his neck.
• 14:00
  He'd make a fabulous Kardashian, wouldn't he?
• 14:03
  If he put the ridges down his neck, he'd look great.
• 14:06
  I think he looks like Niall's from Frasier.
• 14:09
  We used to live in these lanes, you know, like I want to shave
• 14:10
  my own eyes. What's going on up there?
• 14:12
  I. Don't know.
• 14:13
  I feel as if he thinks he's in some sort of Greek tragedy the
• 14:15
  way he's claiming, you know, like.
• 14:18
  Scale it back love. This is only Doctor Who.
• 14:21
  Dial it down. I know.
• 14:25
  But you remember Barry, let's do give us Jenny Laird.
• 14:27
  You know, like he can encourage interesting performances.
• 14:32
  My son. It's costume.
• 14:36
  The one at the wall there. It's got meat on this one, on
• 14:39
  this box, yeah. Fragile meat as well.
• 14:42
  Fragile meat. Very light.
• 14:44
  Fragile meat too, isn't it? That's.
• 14:47
  Very. That's very non specific.
• 14:50
  Always found it but. It's quark, Quark.
• 14:53
  No, not quark meat. It's mandrel meat.
• 14:54
  Or it's. Oh, here he has.
• 14:55
  He actually is quite interesting, but he just sort of
• 14:57
  looks at it and he's now going to shove people aside and he's
• 14:59
  like, I hate to speak to you. He doesn't.
• 15:02
  He doesn't share his suspicion with any.
• 15:04
  No, I wouldn't have just. Spoke to people.
• 15:05
  Straight, I wouldn't have just made money.
• 15:07
  With what I found, look at this. But then.
• 15:10
  He's taken us for a mug. He's in charge, isn't he?
• 15:14
  So presumably he sees his it's his responsibility, but also he
• 15:21
  doesn't want to lose command of his minions.
• 15:26
  Don't you just want to pop that wall like bubble wrap?
• 15:30
  It's Dalek Bumps isn't? It oh, it could be actually,
• 15:35
  before they get cut out. Yeah.
• 15:38
  I But I do like this when you have a character that's been
• 15:41
  nefarious and they're forced to improvise, you know?
• 15:44
  Absolutely, yeah. It's very clever, yes.
• 15:46
  How can there be holiday liners? What was it the date on it?
• 15:49
  Was that 2017 on that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:54
  Actually, I think the fella playing Swans pretty good, yeah.
• 15:58
  Yeah, it's believable. Barry.
• 15:59
  Barry let's cast in quite a few times in Doctor because he's.
• 16:03
  He's. He's in Paris, the spiders
• 16:05
  playing is it Barnes? And also he's in Terror of the
• 16:11
  Autumns as well, playing not not the guy, not Gooch the guy who's
• 16:17
  in The Who gets drunk by the master and.
• 16:19
  Oh yeah, the punch. Box He's is it Professor
• 16:21
  Phillips? Yes.
• 16:24
  Possibly. It up about 2/3 of the effects
• 16:27
  budget that shot you know. Yep.
• 16:28
  So now he's saying. Everybody's mutating.
• 16:30
  But what about the newspaper? They have a kind of society.
• 16:33
  It's evil, corrupt. Yeah, that's it.
• 16:35
  There's newspaper. Yeah, I know that we're doing
• 16:38
  this now, though, saying things like they're deformed, they're
• 16:40
  evil. You know, I think some of this
• 16:43
  language is. A well, no, but, but he's a
• 16:46
  villain and he would anyway, so. It's like, come off it, man.
• 16:51
  I mean, that's the excuse he's using, that I OK, there's a
• 16:54
  nuclear war, but they went on that they formed and everything.
• 16:56
  Yes, we're killing it now. Now he's shifting.
• 16:59
  Now he's shifting from we're at war to the people who survived
• 17:03
  don't deserve to live and we're killing them and and that that's
• 17:06
  not better. It doesn't work for Swan.
• 17:10
  I mean, it would be even more interesting if the if Swan went
• 17:13
  Oh, all right, yeah, let's kill them off and take the planet
• 17:16
  back. That's probably too dark for
• 17:19
  dogs who to go down. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:21
  I won't take your word anymore. I want to see for myself.
• 17:24
  Oh no. He's such an idiot.
• 17:26
  He goes oh, I'll come with you, and then turns.
• 17:28
  It back on him. I mean, you've got to be
• 17:31
  suspicious, right, that he's not, that he might try and get
• 17:34
  rid of you. But perhaps that maybe that's
• 17:36
  just a step too far. Perhaps he's still the loyalty's
• 17:41
  been there for so long, we won't tell.
• 17:43
  The other salamander is right now.
• 17:45
  Is he in the records room still? No, he's underneath.
• 17:48
  He's in the base. No, no, no, no.
• 17:50
  But where do they? Where do they?
• 17:51
  Think up. They think he's in.
• 17:52
  The records. Room because.
• 17:53
  That's where the lift a load of files.
• 17:55
  Yeah, yeah. Well, he does that for a long
• 17:57
  time. Because that's that's where the
• 17:59
  lift is. So.
• 18:00
  So when Kent says the answer is in his records room, yeah, it
• 18:04
  is. How could I stop you?
• 18:14
  There you go. Now.
• 18:15
  Now he's trying to convince him to convince them that he he's
• 18:20
  persuaded him to take him up with him.
• 18:22
  See again none of the regulars. No.
• 18:26
  Hardly, yet they're hardly in. This is playing Salamander.
• 18:30
  Is that why we excuse the lack of any sort of Doctor Who in
• 18:33
  this? Possibly, but it also is moving
• 18:36
  the plot along, Yeah, because the people who we're just
• 18:39
  getting to know under the ground are becoming aware that all is
• 18:43
  not as it should be. So Salamander's plot is not only
• 18:46
  coming to pieces above the ground where he's head of
• 18:49
  security is potentially wanting to jump ship, but it's coming to
• 18:53
  pieces underground as well because Swan has realized what's
• 18:57
  going on. I'm sorry, it's just calling
• 19:00
  again. Why not me?
• 19:02
  Take me with you, Salamander. You turned me down.
• 19:06
  But he promised to take him last time and he didn't, you see so.
• 19:10
  It's just his sheep's. Peeing.
• 19:13
  Come on mate, raise the roof. Come on, you can do it.
• 19:16
  Give us some, wheelie. Oh my God, Victoria, she's
• 19:19
  alive. Yeah, they both are.
• 19:22
  Can I ask you all a question about Salamander?
• 19:24
  I want you to divorce him completely from Patrick
• 19:27
  Troutham. OK, so just on the page, is
• 19:30
  Salamander a villain worthy of repute?
• 19:34
  Lucy. Yes, I think so, because he's a
• 19:37
  human. He's, as we keep saying, a James
• 19:40
  Bond villain, a film James Bond villain.
• 19:43
  He has, he has ambitions to control the world and he's
• 19:48
  human. So it's not like he's not coming
• 19:50
  in with his spaceship and his cyber cohorts and his Daleks and
• 19:54
  what have you. He, he's, he has humans working
• 19:58
  for him to try and control the planet through essentially black
• 20:03
  maven swindling. So he's using sort of petty
• 20:07
  crimes to to do a massive crime. My kind of guy, Daniel.
• 20:17
  I think the the the gimmick of it of the character is that he
• 20:20
  is he is, he looks like the doctor.
• 20:23
  So without that, I don't know. I don't know if he would be that
• 20:27
  memorable. I mean, it is a is a fairly well
• 20:31
  known, you know, cliche of the sort of characters looking like
• 20:34
  the main character. He had a very enjoyable
• 20:37
  childhood. Oh, this is.
• 20:38
  That scene. Yeah, if only he had a a decent
• 20:42
  hairdresser. That's like the third.
• 20:48
  That's quite nasty as well. Yeah, just horrible.
• 20:51
  Nasty. He sort of touches Victoria.
• 20:53
  It's really unpleasant. Yeah, sadistic.
• 20:56
  What do you think then, Dave Salamander?
• 20:59
  If I wasn't phone and be parted so and I'm kind of on Daniel's
• 21:03
  side with us that. But if you think about, it'd be
• 21:05
  a villain that is wanting to take over the world, but he's
• 21:09
  setting off natural disasters and it is very like.
• 21:13
  A little. Bit the master plan, yeah.
• 21:18
  Oh Dave, you just made me think Joseph First playing this role
• 21:22
  would be a mate. Can you imagine him as
• 21:25
  salamander? I can.
• 21:27
  Imagine him as anything. To be fair.
• 21:30
  He was in a Bond film. A Bond film, wasn't he, Joseph?
• 21:33
  He was. Yeah, he was in.
• 21:34
  He was. Diamonds are forever.
• 21:37
  You'll get back to your post later.
• 21:39
  I'll have you a shot. Now here he's touching her
• 21:43
  again, touching her hair. He.
• 21:44
  Strokes her hair, doesn't he? And then he really Yanks her.
• 21:48
  And to be fair, Deborah Watling's playing that for real
• 21:51
  as well. She's doing really well.
• 21:53
  I know we don't always. Victoria boyfriend and
• 21:55
  girlfriend, because they certainly behave like it in this
• 21:57
  story. Well, they've got matching
• 21:58
  kilts. They they were when they when
• 22:04
  they get the jobs, when Jamie gets his job, he says my
• 22:07
  girlfriend. So that's their that's their
• 22:10
  cover story. Whether they actually are
• 22:13
  supposed to be, I don't know, but they're this obviously
• 22:16
  affectionate with each other, with each other, but they're.
• 22:18
  Very tactile with each other. Yeah, he's.
• 22:21
  Reacted when she's very protected you.
• 22:24
  Know oh salamander, but is it? Oh, I love this.
• 22:30
  And then he suddenly turns on the doctor.
• 22:32
  Doesn't. He Jamie, it's me.
• 22:34
  Go classic. How do?
• 22:41
  We know about your friend. I go back to Salamander for a
• 22:42
  second now. I think they could have put in a
• 22:45
  really good character actor that isn't Patrick Trout's.
• 22:49
  And. They've clearly got faith in the
• 22:52
  character because he does basically dominate the storm.
• 22:58
  I just think it's it is great that we finally got a Bond
• 23:00
  villain in Doctor Who. He wouldn't have had such a big
• 23:04
  role of it hadn't been played by.
• 23:08
  What is really odd is that when you skip into perwiz time, there
• 23:14
  aren't really Bond villains, not like movie Bond villains.
• 23:19
  I think when you, when you get to City of Death, Julian Glover
• 23:22
  is playing more of a Bond villain in that Oh yeah, he
• 23:25
  does. When he's actually playing a
• 23:26
  Bond villain into your eyes only very much.
• 23:29
  Of the time he's. Not supposed to be.
• 23:31
  Don't hit me, Victoria. You wouldn't hit your old friend
• 23:34
  the Doctor, would you? He.
• 23:35
  Falls off the chair, yeah. He falls off the chair.
• 23:39
  Yeah, it's great. And.
• 23:39
  His spatial expression has completely changed, yeah.
• 23:42
  And. His body language because he.
• 23:44
  Acts. He acts from the inside out, so
• 23:47
  if you've seen photos of him when he's not being the doctor,
• 23:50
  he is a completely different person and it's not just the
• 23:52
  head. Tunic and pulling out the
• 23:54
  pretend whistle. That's great.
• 23:57
  I love that. That's the sort of the shorthand
• 24:00
  for, right? If we get into trouble, Jamie,
• 24:01
  this is what we're going to do. Yeah.
• 24:05
  They are a great theme, aren't they?
• 24:08
  Yeah, you can tell. There's so much affection
• 24:10
  between them off screen it works really well.
• 24:16
  Colin Douglas is not amused. As he was in real life.
• 24:21
  I told you she'd let me know in Southern meditation records, but
• 24:24
  no one's come out, so he's got a.
• 24:27
  Can't walk as well. I would be asking questions as
• 24:32
  to what he's doing in that records room at this point.
• 24:34
  He's been here. He's been in there for bloody
• 24:36
  hours. He's been.
• 24:38
  He's been looking at the microfieces or whatever the
• 24:40
  future of records was at that point.
• 24:45
  There's an early episode of The Man from UNCLE where they get
• 24:48
  they have to go on board a ship that's being a man who wants to
• 24:54
  lead people to a new future civilization.
• 24:56
  And he's he's determined to have a proper library and he's all
• 24:59
  microfiche. I watched it and just went.
• 25:04
  What's really clever I think about Giles Ken, is he's been on
• 25:08
  the periphery of the story all the way through.
• 25:10
  Yeah, I think he gets like 1 scene per episode.
• 25:13
  So you're always, it's a bit like the nurse in the pirate
• 25:15
  planet. You're always aware that they're
• 25:17
  there enough, so when the twist is revealed, you're like, oh,
• 25:22
  Margaret Hoodwinks. Yeah.
• 25:24
  And when you look back at it, the things he said mean more
• 25:27
  than they did the first time you heard them.
• 25:29
  Like the records room? I think it's a great twist
• 25:32
  though. Charles Kent.
• 25:34
  I think I the first time I watched it floored me.
• 25:38
  Watched. Listen, sorry I didn't have this
• 25:40
  before anyone else. And also, I wonder at the time,
• 25:45
  because Bill Kerr, as Lucy said, it was Hancock's half hour.
• 25:50
  You wouldn't possibly be expecting him to play the
• 25:52
  villain because he'd been playing sort of, he'd be very
• 25:57
  well known because Hancock's half hour was huge.
• 26:01
  It would have been it's it's a bit like it would be a bit like
• 26:06
  casting somebody from I don't know if there's not really that
• 26:09
  many big sort of sitcom comedies at the moment, are there really?
• 26:14
  I was going to say it's a bit like casting somebody from
• 26:18
  ghosts, but we had Charlotte Richie in resolution playing,
• 26:22
  playing a bad, a bad. Well, admittedly a character
• 26:25
  taken over by a Dalek, but I think I think there are very few
• 26:33
  actors who are known for comedy when they're casting Doctor Who
• 26:36
  give a bad performance. It's almost if they've got to
• 26:38
  prove themselves or they are not, or they are enjoying the
• 26:42
  chance to play, to play, to play straight an.
• 26:45
  Actor who's known for a very, very popular sitcom that had a
• 26:50
  pivotal role in a very important Doctor Who episode.
• 26:54
  And I was not at all convinced. And that was Joanna Page and Day
• 26:58
  of the Doctor. I thought, I thought, I see we
• 27:02
  were going to say Richard Breyer's in Paradise Town.
• 27:08
  He's going to. Create him with the thing.
• 27:12
  Yeah. I mean, this is just plain no,
• 27:14
  what are you doing? Don't turn your back on him.
• 27:17
  After you. Oh, really?
• 27:19
  And then this is just how government is.
• 27:21
  So it just has it and goes out of short and obviously you don't
• 27:24
  see it and ever you couldn't show it.
• 27:26
  That, that was clearly supposed to be a good bit of direction
• 27:30
  there, but he didn't do it well enough.
• 27:32
  So he picked up the pipe and followed him.
• 27:34
  And it cuts to Astrid knocking. Yeah.
• 27:37
  And in Inferno, when Douglas Canfield does it, you have the
• 27:40
  pipe coming down and then Benton bang, bang, bang into the wall.
• 27:44
  And it's very clear what they're trying.
• 27:46
  To tell you. What's that guard was fueled by?
• 27:48
  That ketchup. Yeah, Yep, open location.
• 27:53
  Astrid to the rescue. Where are where is this
• 27:55
  Australia? It's supposed to be or is it?
• 28:00
  Or is it though because they were in the central they keep
• 28:03
  sort of whizzing around? Between.
• 28:04
  Zones on. There going backwards of course
• 28:06
  tell. You at this point where we are,
• 28:08
  are we still in Krakatoa no Kanoa?
• 28:11
  I don't know but but Astrid is about to discover or unfortunate
• 28:16
  swan. That's a terrible forest set
• 28:19
  though, isn't it? It's not the most convincing,
• 28:22
  no. No, but at least they do look
• 28:24
  like actual trees. This was another question I.
• 28:26
  Think they are because they are actual trees, aren't they?
• 28:28
  It's like they've got, they've, they've, they've, I mean, this
• 28:31
  was filmed around Christmas, so they've just bought a load of
• 28:33
  Christmas trees. Unusually for Five, Yeah, which
• 28:37
  is doing the base under siege because they can pour all their
• 28:39
  money into a big set and it looks very impressive.
• 28:42
  They've decided to go for scale and ambition.
• 28:45
  Do you think they put it off on the whole?
• 28:49
  I think so. I think, yeah, I think so.
• 28:51
  You know, there's, there's a very wide mixture of of sets.
• 28:55
  I mean, you've got the set, so you just see it very briefly.
• 28:58
  And Barry let's didn't really give it that much scope scope.
• 29:01
  But you saw in the the main part of the the underground.
• 29:05
  But it's it's clearly it's almost not quite to the scale of
• 29:09
  the of the arch and space sets, but there's clearly some height
• 29:14
  to it. But they he didn't didn't really
• 29:17
  shoot it very well or didn't shoot it as there's one shot
• 29:20
  where he shoots it very low down and you can see how high it is.
• 29:25
  Yeah, there's a nice bit of variety in the sets, isn't
• 29:27
  there? I think.
• 29:30
  I think he put some money on the screen in the right places, like
• 29:33
  you said, David in episode 1 with all the application work
• 29:35
  and hardware totally convincing you you're going to watch a
• 29:38
  movie not realizing the come episode 3 we've only got a
• 29:41
  corridor set left to shoot in. But never mind, you know?
• 29:44
  And I catch it's terrible wallpaper.
• 29:46
  It ended. How did it end?
• 29:48
  Astrid found Swan in the bushes and she said who did this to
• 29:52
  you? And he said a man called
• 29:53
  Salamander and she went salamander, and that was the
• 29:56
  end. See, even the cliffhangers
• 29:58
  aren't going to the regulars. What is going on?
• 30:01
  Well, Astrid is 1 by this point. We've probably seen certainly
• 30:04
  more than Giles, haven't we? Yeah.
• 30:07
  Oh. She would have been marvellous
• 30:09
  as a regular, wouldn't she? Mind you, Anna and Travers and
• 30:12
  Gemma Corwin, Can we just have a Hareen?
• 30:14
  But we get to the end of the Trout and era.
• 30:17
  Trouton's Trouton's Love Lace. I'll cut it right there.