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The Witchy Legend of Cat Nights · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff Whenever.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Told you production of iHeartRadio, and welcome to one of
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: our first episodes of August. Happy August. It is storming
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: right now, so if you hear some rain sounds or
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: some thunder, it's ambience and it actually fits for this episode.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: Oh, we need to go ahead and start adding that
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: in just kidd out, just kidding.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: So every August we have this problem and wherein we
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: like try to look up what is August, like what
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: is the national months of x y Z because we're
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: coming off Pride and disability Pride and every August. Every
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: year I go through this and there's some things but
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: nothing major. It reminds me of being a kid. And
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: I used to like that My birthday was in August
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: because there were no holidays in August, so it was
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: like a little celebration.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah I could have. But the funny thing.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Is that every year I come across this particular topic,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: cat nights, and every year I tell myself it's not
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: enough to talk about. But I decided this year, no,
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I really want to talk about cat nights and speaking up.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Before we get into it, I have an update about
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: my neighborhood cat. So listeners you should know, if you've
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: listened for a while, there's this cat that lives in
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: my neighborhood, beautiful cat named Blue, and he was recently
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: hit by a car. He's fine, but basically our apartment
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: has adopted him and rehabilitated him, and he's great. Like
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't know other than the loss of title, you
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: wouldn't know anything happened to him. He's full of energy
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: and he's a very chaos cat, very mischievous. But recently
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: he did kind of become my cat because I was
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: the only person I'm pretty sure in the apartment over
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: the Fourth of July weekend, and so the cat was
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: my cat and we were buzz and he was chaotic.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: My apartment has a lot of things that a cat
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: would like to knock over, so we had to negotiate that.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: There was a lot of me being like, no, please,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: don't do that. But we had a grand old time
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: and then he moved on. Now he's hanging out with
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: other people, but for that one weekend it was yours.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: It was and he jump scared me a lot. Oh
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: my goodness, I could only imagine he'd pop out from
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: like under.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: That is your aw because cats love pouncling, so I can't. Yeah,
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: you know what, I wish you had a camera in
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: the house just for that, just for those moments.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: To be honest, it was a lot of a lot
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: of excitement, a lot of startled yelps. But I'm okay,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: I'm okay, Cat's okay, and I'm okay. So I'm I'm
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: really excited to talk about this. I have never heard
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: of cat nights before, have you?
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: No, I'm very intrigued you I've heard of cat cafes.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: No, that's not what we will be touching on, but
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I bet they do celebrate cat nights. So we're talking
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: about cats and witches today primarily, And this is going
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: to be a shorter one because, as I said, every year,
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: I've been like, I'm not sure there's enough information when
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: I stumble across this, because we're talking about a legend
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: in folklore and there just aren't a lot of primary sources,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: as in, every reference is to a quote vague legend
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: or an obscure legend, but you can't find what they're referencing,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: or whatever they got it from is lost or it
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: didn't exist in the first place, there are like a
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: couple that I would say lend themselves to There were
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: some historical reasoning that this became a legend, but this
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: is often the case with stories like cat nights. But
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: I am someone who still finds this stuff interesting. I
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: used to run into this on Saver all the time,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: because you find a legend and it's so fascinating, but
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: you can't find anything to back it up at all,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: like even that it was a legend until recently. So
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: you have to keep that stuff in mind. And that's
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: my disclaimer at the top, is that these vague origin
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: stories sometimes everybody just agreed that they happen because they
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: found it in another source, but they're all relying on
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: each other, and there's nothing that indicates that it wasn't
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: invented far later. I do, as I said, think there
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: are a couple couple of instances that suggest that it
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: was actually an older legend, but we'll get into those
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: also for a sadder disclaimer, As with all of these
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: as ridiculous as it sounds now, people accused of witchcraft
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: died a lot of people, many of them women or
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: otherwise marginalized people, and sometimes owning a cat was enough
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: to draw suspicion. During the height of the witch hunts
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: in Europe and America, in some cases the cat was blamed.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: So while this is fun in terms of a legend,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: it's important to keep in mind the reality of these
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: witch hunts and reading through some of the trials for this,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: I was once again infuriated by how many were not
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: only punishing a woman for existing outside of patriarchal white
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Christian norms, but how often it was used by men
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: as a punishment, like.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: So they went after the cat, like of which when
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: they went after it, well, the goat.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: It turned out to be the thing.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: But like like that thing that they are demon that
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: the cat is a demon or the demon.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Oh well, there's a famous account of a cat cat faith,
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: which is thought to be a play on Satan.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Who named it the people that I don't know, actually
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Sir Sathan died.
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: There are three women who were implicated in their quote
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: crimes with the cats. One of them did was executed,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: oh lord, but I think the other two weren't. I'm
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: not sure about the cat, but yeah, I should say
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: the cat, I should say. Before we get into this,
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: we are going to talk about some violence against cats
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: because they.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Did for pursuing the friendly episode witchcrafts.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, so is there a horror movie based on this?
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Have you found it? I don't know. I haven't found it.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Oh I should have known. You'd have already talked about
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: it I had it been there, but I would have
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: mentioned it.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I do have a fun cultural note at the end,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: and I believe it's actually fun. That's not the way
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: I sometimes find things fun that you find like horrifying.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, good to know.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, So, yeah, as I was saying when I
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: was going back over some of these cases.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: And the witch trials, at least at least.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: A handful of them were just men wanting someone to
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: kill their wife, maybe because she got pregnant and they
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: didn't want to take care of the child, or she
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: was too successful or things like that.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: So it was it was really upsetting and infuriating. So
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: I guess every time I talk about this it feels distance,
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: but I don't think we should dismiss the damage that
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: it did, right, Yes, okay, So with all of that
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: out of the way, Yeah, let's talk about cats and witches,
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: because today we were talking about cat Knights, which is
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: an Irish legend that starts on August seventeenth every year,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: so Cat Knights starts on August seventeenth. Now, before we
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: get into the details of cat Knights, just a reminder
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: that Kristen and Caroline old host of the show, did
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: an episode on the Crazy Cat Lady trope that we're
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: going to bring back as a classic because some of
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: that touches on what we're discussing here. But they did
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: a whole episode, so you can check that out. As
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: I'm sure most of you are familiar, we have a
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: long history of associating cats with witches and with women
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: in general, and this is something I've been trying to
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: do an episode on for a long time too, is
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: the gingerzation of pets and cats are always yes, feminine, yes, us.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: We're going to talk a little bit about that, but
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: that's probably a bigger topic for a separate episode and
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: speaking of a lot of scholars have published in depth
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: histories about why this is, but for our purposes today,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: we're just going to do a brief overview. Cats have
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: not always had the association with nefarious witches or spinsters.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Ancient Egyptians worshiped them, and killing one was a punishable
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: crime an ancient Egypt, and they kept cats as pets
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: they mourned when they died. According to PBS, they would
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: shave their eyebrows to display respect for a lost cat.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: This is in part due to the goddess Bastet, the
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: goddess of women's fertility, sexuality, and motherhood, who had the
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: body of a human woman and the head of a cat,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: at least in the primary depictions of her.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Hecate, the mythological Greek goddess of magic, witchcraft, sorcery, and
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: the moon, had a pet cat, but she also had
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: a cat as a familiar, which in European legend is
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: a supernatural creature that helps witches. There's a lot of.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Other goddesses that have affiliations with cats, too, including Norse
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: mythologies Freya, so that association has been there for a
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: long time. This is also the early beginnings of why
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: cats are associated with femininity. This would later be weaponized
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: during the suffrage movement with depictions of women as kittens
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: crying and the rise of the word catem Later in
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies, cats were used as symbols against the
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: queer community and leaning hard into the crazy cat lady stereotype.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: They were used as that basically mean unmarried women aka lesbians.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: So even a few feminist groups worried that lesbians were
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: a threat to feminism and they would use this kind
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: of crazy cat lady cat symbology. When you think of
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: the stereotypical characatures of witches, they're ugly, they're old, they're undesirable,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: they hate men, which was what some of these detractors
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: wanted to equate feminists too, and certain feminist movements wanted
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: to distance themselves from the messaging was that these women
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: were lonely, they did have a man, and so they
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: needed a cat. In response, a lot of second wave
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: feminists in the queer community adopted the cat as a
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: sword of mascot and fear around the childless cat lady
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: is still a thing.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Vice President JD. Evince is worried about it.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: The interesting thing is that a few of the women
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: he criticized for being childless cat ladies are not childless
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: and they didn't have cats, just as feminists celebrate the
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: term cat lady regardless of if you have cats, which
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: showcases the weight of its history and what it represents,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: because you're not being literal in that sense, you're saying
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: that it has a meaning beyond literal. I think, in
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: the most oversimplifying terms, it's a woman who doesn't need
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: a man. She might want one, but she doesn't need one,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: and is independent, pushing against and threatening patriarchal norms, and
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: apparently it's a whole thing to be like, I'll just
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: take the cat, no man, thanks. I thought it was
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: a social media trend. I don't know, let me know.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Listeners on the other hand, though, sexualized catwoman, as in
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: like batman, So you've also got that going on here.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: So women are either hyper sexualized or desexualized in this
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: kind of cat lady catwoman trope.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: All right, but I've jumped way ahead.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: During the Middle Ages, cats were prized by those looking
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: to keep their stores of grain rat free. In fact,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: according to a few sources, people would pay quite a
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: bit for a cat, like equal to a sheep or goat.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: They were popular in monasteries, often the only animal allowed inside,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: but this drastically changed in Europe by the sixteenth century,
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: when cats were associated with paganism, which is an even
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: the devil. Historians point to the extermination of pagan traditions
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: in Europe and the rise of Christianity with the turn
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: of the cat's reputation for the worse. And so the
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: sixteenth century is when it kind of reached its head,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: but it had there had been like seeds of it
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: going on before them. The Church viewed paganism as competition
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: and targeted witches and all connected to them to destroy
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: that competition. Pagans were known for deep respect for nature
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: and animals, so a bond within the animal became suspects
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: under Christian authority, and people started to believe that cats
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: were messengers utilized by witches and indicated a curse one
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: they might pay the Church to get removed, and or
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: witches themselves transformed to move through society without drawing attention.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: So that's sort of where the whole you don't want
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: to cross paths with the black cat thing comes from,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: is that if you saw a cat at this time,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: you might think it's a witch trying to place a
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: curse on you.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Turn the other way, turned the other way. Not like
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: the matrix.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: It's no, but I do find that interesting. I thought
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: about that as well.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Cats were also seen as too independent and disrespectful, as
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: if they didn't care about the rules of the church,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: and they did not love men as effusively as men
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: would like just as the woman who kept them. Wow,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm joking, but this really was like a
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: people thought this the cat's too independent.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: I don't like it, and I'm kind of laughing about it.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: But there were serious consequences to all of this.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Francis Simpson's nineteen oh three work The Book of the
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Cat has this quote. It was believed that the devil
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: borrowed the coat of a black cat when he wished
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: to torment his victims, and this belief led to black
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: cats being chased, hunted, tortured, and even burned alive alongside witches,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: and a superstition that lasted this day around black cats
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: and bad luck.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Nang.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: I just I assume my animal would be like, if
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: I had to be represented as an animal, it would
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: be a cat, because I'm a little moody, a little
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: bit rebellious. Uh huh, Like I want to cuddle, but
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: if you want me to cuddle, I'll probably be like, no,
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: don't touch me.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that makes sense.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Although like because of that demeanor, I don't always gravitate
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: towards cats those same reasons, even though it could be
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: described for me. Maybe it's just, you know, self hatred
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: in a different way.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Cats. I don't hate cats. I love cats, y'all. I
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: like cats. I feel like you're digging yourself. It's hard.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: I will say, my niece has a very viral cat,
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: and this little dirty one is super cute.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: And just to clarify, you mean viral social media? Yes, sorry, okay,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: I mean I don't know what the people would think.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to make sure that we're on the
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: same page. We're talking about witchcraft and witches.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: I'm working on being clearer in my Okay, Okay, you're right,
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: we shouldn't assume. I just can't imagine what going viral
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: would mean in another context.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Well, let's not think about it, okay, Okay, moving on. Yes, Yes,
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: in his work are cats and all about them. Harrison
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Weir adds another possible explanation for the superstition around black cats. Quote,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: A very remarkable peculiarity of the domestic cat is the
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: extraordinary property which its fur possesses of yielding electric sparks
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: when hand rubbed or by other friction the black and
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: a larger degree than any other color. Even the rapid
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: motion of a fast retreating cat through rough tangled underwood
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: having been known to produce a luminous effect in frosty weather,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: it is the more noticeable the coldness of the weather,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: apparently giving intensity and brilliancy, which to the ignorant would
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: certainly be attributed to the interference of the spiritual or superhuman. Plus,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: he also goes on to add the nocturnalize that seemed
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: to glow in.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: The night, so sunder dog's eyes, and wolves and coyotes,
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: most animals, deer do wow.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: The black cats though its associated with which is therefore
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: it's more suspects.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: That's even worse goat size, and also possums and raccoons.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Yeahs, anyway, keep going, you do you okay?
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: It's also possible that because cats could black cats particularly
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: could blend in better at night, they were better at
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: catching mice, which would have been something pagans would have
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: gone for or like anybody, but I was reading an
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: article that was like, pagans were always practical, so this
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: would have made sense to them.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: So that's true.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: The connection between black cats and whiches would solidify.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: In that way. Yeah. Also, I just like the sin
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: as pagans were more practical.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they are more about you know, nature, understanding nature,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: which makes sense.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Recent research suggest that cats may have a preference for
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: women just because they are more likely to interact with them,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: feed them, and take care of them. So that kind
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: of goes into not only this association with witches, but
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: also the crazy cat lady trip. Yeah, there's actually been
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: a lot of research about that lately, so maybe time
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: for a revisit. Reminder, the church at the time was
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: incentivized to have women married, both because of religious purposes,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: but also because the church didn't want to care for
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: children born outside of wedlock, which was kind of what
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: would happen at the time. Simultaneously, governments wanted more capital,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: children as labors, children as future soldiers, so women living
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: outside of that represented a threat And just another fact
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: before we move on. Cats were sometimes blamed for the
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: spread of the bubonic plague during Middle Ages and were
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: killed for it. However, historians nowadays suspected this actually exacerbated
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: the spread of it because the cats were great at
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: hunting rats, right that were actually spreading the disease, so yeah,
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: not good. Also, if you want another interesting fact about
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: the bubonic plague, check out the Sabers episode on Lemonade,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: because something really interesting happened in Paris with Lemonadely yes, yes, yes, yes, Oh,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: and I should say black cats are lucky in some
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: cultures like Japan, so yeah, they're not always that luck.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: That finally brings us two cat Knights, the Irish legend
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: of cat Knights, which starts on August seventeenth and runs
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: to the twenty sixth, although some places I was looking
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: at said it ends on seventeen. It's meant to be
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: sort of a transition period from the dog days of
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: summer as we move towards fall in the Northern Hemisphere.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: At least according to more modern sources. There are a
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: couple of variants of this legend that we're going to
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: go through, but at the heart of most of them
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: is the idea that during this time, which is can
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: transform into a cat and back eight times, but on
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: the ninth time, the transformation sticks in their cat forever
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: and they meow and yell loudly during the month, And
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: this is allegedly where we get the saying cats have
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: nine lives now. Obviously, the vagueness of this legend leaves
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: a lot of questions. Ye does the count reset outside
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: of this timeframe? If I transform eight times but I
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: don't do it the ninth, do I get.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: To do it again the next year? Right? I don't
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: know can answer question? Well, Dane, what's the point of
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: this then?
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: The first known reference of the idea of cats have
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: nine lives is believed to go back to a fifteen
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: to eighty four book called Beware of the Cat. In it,
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: the author writes that witches can take the form of
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: a cat nine times, and that they also have a
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: third nipple for their diabolical cat companions to get milk from.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: According to he was not pro cat in this book.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: He's really worry of the cat, I mean all right.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: According to space dot Com, the Dog Days of Summer
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: are named after the dog Star series, which is really
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: bright in July when it's really hot, while cat Nights
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: are associated with Leo the Lion and Leo Minor, the
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Smaller Lion and links it's all happening around this time.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Many sources reporting on cat Nights think that this legend
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: stems at least in part from the fact that cats
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: are more vocal in August, especially at night, or that's
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: what people suggest. I'm not sure that's actually correct, because
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: everybody seemed to end it with I've never noticed this,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: but it seems like a thing that's probably cat.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Cat owners.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Let us know, cat owners, Let us know, cat owners,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: let us know. Some also add that because cats have
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: superior night vision, they were more likely to be on
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: the prowl at night, so you would hear this meowing
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: and yowling at night, and somebody I didn't go too
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: deep into it, but somebody was talking about, you know,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: cats weren't neutered at this time in Europe, so probably
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: much louder than what we would experience now. Some iterations
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: of the legend and a similar Scottish legend include caught She,
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: a fairy cat closely associated with August and the night.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: In fact, some think that this figure is where cat
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Nights originates from. The name translates to cat of the mounds,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: and it refers to Neolithic burial mounds littered across modern
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: day UK. I hope I didn't butcher the pronunciation, but
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: it's like banshee caught she. Yeah, so I believe banshee
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: is a woman of the mounds. Similar Yes, these fairy
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: cats or large black cats with a tuft of white
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: on their chest, capable of walking on two legs, and
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: they were generally depicted as kind of scary or at
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: the very least you wouldn't mess with them, demanding respects,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: though on occasion they would grant someone a blessing and
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: a handful of tellings they are which is themselves. Some
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: speculate that the Kellis cat, which is a large wildcat
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: native to this region, might be the inspiration for the legend,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: and they are believed to be the result of mating
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: between domesticated house cats and wildcats. According to some things
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: I read and again Grain of Salt, listeners from these
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: areas please write it. The Scottish believed that if a
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: cot she crossed over a corpse before burial, it could
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: steal the soul of the dead, and so to prevent
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: this people put into place what were called late wakes
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: to keep the cat she away until the corpse is
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: buried and the gods had claimed the corpse's soul. So
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: they would distract the cat with games and warm hearts
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: or cat nip or riddles that is very specific. Yes, yes,
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: tell the cat riddle and they'll be there thinking about
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: it for a while.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, I would fail. I don't know any riddles. I
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I know some riddles.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: I'm okay, okay, that's good because if I die, you
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: will have to tell you.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: I don't want that.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Another legend goes that on Swim, which is the pagan
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: holiday that is seen as the originator of Halloween. People
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: who left out some milk for caught She and they
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: would get a blessing as they did, and those who
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: didn't leave out the milk would get a curse, specifically
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: that their cows would produce no more milk. Yes, yes,
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: So that is cat Nights. That is the story of
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Caught She. I would love for listeners to write in
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: here's my fun random tidbit, cultural tidbit. So there's a
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: character and one of my very favorite games of all time,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Fantasy Vin Kate Sith, and it is pronounced Kate Sith
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: in the game, and that game love Star Wars of
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Star Wars references, so I always thought like Sith was
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: a reference to Star Wars in some way, but when
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: I was reading this, I was like, no, this character
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: is a cat. Yeah, it's a small cat, but it's
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: it's black, and it's got the white tuft, and it
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: sits on top of a large the robot cat like body,
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: and it has a Scottish accent. Oh, he has a
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Scottish accent, and he's very like all about luck and
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: fortune and all of this stuff. And I looked into
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: it and it was at least a little bit based
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: on the legend of Caught Chea. Yes, because as we said,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Pantay seven is made by a Japanese company, So in Japan,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: black cats are lucky. So I think that they were
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: kind of playing on the differing views of luck around
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: black cats.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: But okay, I understand something more. One of my favorite games.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: I love it. Yes, all this time I thought it
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: was just a Star Wars reference.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: Well, of course, and now I know, and now you
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: figured it out.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, I was very happy to learn this.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: That's interesting. I knew there was lores with cats, but
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: I didn't know that depth of lore.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: Had never heard of this outside of every year it
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: comes up in things that happen in August, right, So
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: that was the extent of my knowledge.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: And it goes hand in hand with the House of Dragons,
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: which they have a whole scene. Yeah, she has a
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: whole scene where they come in and they talk about
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: their rat problem and their barn and she brings in cats.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: She's like, oh, he's like a lot of other areas
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: have been bringing in a cat. She's like really, and
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: that's how the cats are introduced to their community, their town.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: And jump forward and we see are chasing the cat.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Name so that would be Game of Thrones, right, yeah.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: So but both like the House those Dragons, was like,
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: this is how it began and why those cats were
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: there to begin with. When Ario was chasing the cat.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: She's the one that brought in the cats for rat infestation.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Hm hmmm. That was just like a mean going.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: About it was a big deal and it makes sense. Yeah,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: you've got a rat problem.
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: I know, like a lot barn cats and we brought
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: When I worked at a brewery, they had problems with
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: rats coming into like the grain and barley area. So
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: they've brought in three cats and they was happily and
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: I went back there to try to fight them. They
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: did not care about me. But yeah, huh interesting, thank
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: you for letting me know I like this.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I was happy to learn about it as well.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: And yeah, please listeners right in. If we missed anything
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: or if you any any thoughts about this, we would
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: love to hear from you. To people I saw some
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: people do celebrate it. Really, if you do that, it's amazing. Yes,
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: how do you celebrate? Tell us about this?
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Tell us about it? Please. You can email us at
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Hello A Stuffmanever told You? Dot com.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: You can find us on blue Sky at mom Stuff podcast,
• 30:21
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• 30:24
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• 30:25
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• 30:26
  Speaker 2: a book you can get where you get your books.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Thanks as always to our super producer Rima and our
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: executive producer Maya.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Thank you and thanks to you for listening. Steffan Never
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: told You The Protection by Heart Radio.
• 30:36
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• 30:39
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