Latest / Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney / How to set healthy wedding client boundaries with Megan Gillikin

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How to set healthy wedding client boundaries with Megan Gillikin · Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney

0:00
Megan: Boundaries are something that I feel very passionate about talking
0:03
about now, because I also deeply care about serving your clients well and
0:09
making sure that you are creating an experience that creates raving fans.
0:15
You know, just referral machine in your business, but it has to be done
0:19
with boundaries that keep you in the industry for a long time, instead
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of getting to a place where it's too much and you leave because your bank
0:29
account does not reflect the hustle that you have put into growing it.
0:35
Becca: I'm Becca Pountney, wedding business marketing expert,
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speaker and blogger, and you're listening to the Wedding Pros
0:40
Who Are Ready to Grow podcast.
0:42
I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies, and real life
0:45
examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
0:49
If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion
0:53
and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business, doing what you
0:56
love, then you're in the right place.
0:58
Let's get going with today's episode.
1:01
Today I'm chatting with Megan Gillikin, former wedding planner
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and founder of the Planners Vaults.
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After 12 years of planning weddings, Megan now devotes her
1:09
time and energy into helping other planners build their businesses.
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I've been wanting to get Megan onto the podcast for a while and having
1:15
now met her and her husband Jason in real life in Vegas, I'm even more
1:19
excited to have this conversation.
1:20
She is so lovely and I know you're going to enjoy what she has to say.
1:24
Megan, welcome to the podcast.
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Megan: Becca, I'm so excited to be here.
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Thanks so much for having me.
1:28
Becca: I'm so excited to have you.
1:29
Isn't it crazy that just a few weeks back, we were in real life together in Vegas
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and now we're the other side of the world.
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Megan: I know.
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And I remember being in rooms with you on Clubhouse back forever ago, like 2021.
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So I'm excited that we're finally having that like actual real
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life conversation and connection.
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Becca: I know, isn't that crazy?
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I loved, as much as Clubhouse was like a flash in the pan, I loved it because I met
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so many great people in that time period.
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So yeah, even when these social media sites don't hang around for long, it's
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always worth jumping on them for a while.
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I loved it.
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Now, I never got to get to you to record something for the
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Wedding MBA podcast that I did.
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So I'm going to do that with you now, because I think
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you've still got things to say.
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So despite me not getting it into that episode, I'd love to know.
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For people listening, what was your biggest takeaway
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from this year's Wedding MBA?
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Megan: My biggest takeaway was that wedding pros right now are many,
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so many are overwhelmed, exhausted, stretched thin and they are struggling
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with trying to figure out what action is appropriate for them in their
2:36
business versus what their competition is doing, what they're listening to
2:40
from educators and generally like.
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It's a lot.
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That's the biggest takeaway that I got from the conversations that I had.
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Becca: It's so true.
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People are really overwhelmed at the moment.
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And I think wedding MBA was just the most insane thing.
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As an English person coming over to that conference, like I just
2:57
cannot get over how big it is.
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And I've been joking because I'm speaking at the UK's biggest wedding
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industry conference and it's 150 people and it's gonna feel really
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small even though it's the biggest one here because there is nothing like it.
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So I'm trying to convince all my British wedding pro friends that
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next year they should come out to Vegas and experience Wedding MBA too.
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Megan: Oh yes, we would love to have them.
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That was my third year speaking at Wedding MBA and yeah.
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Each year it's just, it gets better and better.
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So I was so excited that you were there and yeah, come on over y'all.
3:29
Becca: You're welcome.
3:29
Yeah, hopefully we'll all be back next year and then we can all come to your
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mixer as well, which was a lot of fun.
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So let's get on to the job in hand.
3:36
Let's talk about you.
3:38
So we are going to be going on to talk a little while about boundaries,
3:41
which is something my wedding pros really need to hear about.
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But before we get into that, I always love to just go back through your
3:47
journey, because I think it's important for people to understand where you've
3:49
come from, to see why you've got an authority to speak on these such things.
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So how did you end up wedding planning in the first place?
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Megan: It is a crazy rollercoaster ride.
4:00
So buckle up.
4:01
I went on a job interview back in 2010.
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I was working at the time for Marriott Hotels and I had worked my way from
4:10
front desk to banquets to catering to sales and I had just gotten married.
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I was ready for what I thought was like the next step in my career,
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which was hopefully working for a local wedding planning company.
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I applied for a job.
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Really, I, I reached out to the owner who I vaguely knew of and
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asked if she had any open positions.
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She said, yes, let's meet.
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I had my resume, my cover letter.
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I went on what I thought was a job interview and I came out with an
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opportunity to take over her business.
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So she sat down in a coffee shop with me and the first words out
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of her mouth were, I'm burned out.
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I'm looking for someone to take over my existing weddings that I
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have on the books for next year.
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And I'll be moving, you know, out of the state in the next few months.
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And I went home to my husband of about three weeks at the time.
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And I said to him, Oh my gosh, like it was such a bummer.
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I thought it was going to be an option to work for her, but she wants
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someone to purchase her business.
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And that is absolutely not for me right now.
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That might be five years from now, but not now.
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And my husband, who to this day, 13 years married, is my number one cheerleader.
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The person that always like kind of pushes me outside of my own limiting beliefs.
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He was like, Yes, let's do this.
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We'll take out a small business loan.
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You, we're going to figure this out.
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And so fast forward, I did, I left my job.
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I took out a small business loan.
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I actually did not know what I didn't know at the time.
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I had never purchased a business before, and I actually purchased a really
5:44
Terrible business, which was a surprise.
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There was bridges burned, reputation was not great my due diligence on purchasing
5:54
the business just wasn't there because it wasn't something that I thought about.
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So the journey to rebuilding the brand, hiring team members, really like
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carving my name out in the industry associated with the business was what
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I did for first few years of owning it.
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I had the business for 12 years.
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And in 2022, I sold the planning business to one of the ladies on
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my team so that I could go full time into education, coaching, and
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speaking for the wedding industry.
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Becca: Love that.
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What a wild story to find yourself like purchasing a business.
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We have a thing in the UK.
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I don't know if you've ever seen it.
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It went viral a number of years ago because this guy turned up
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at the BBC for a job interview and someone made a mistake.
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Stake and thought he was a contributor to go on the national news.
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And so they took him as if he was going through his job interview and
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the next thing, he was on live TV asking questions about technology.
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And he was totally the wrong person.
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And your story reminds me of that because you turned up somewhere thinking
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you were going for a job interview and the next thing you find yourself.
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buying a business.
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Megan: Oh yeah, it was insane.
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I had a resume, cover letters, I was dressed professionally and next thing I
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know I'm taking out a small business loan for five figures, I'm quitting my job, I'm
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walking away from a set paycheck and I'm an unexpected entrepreneur, which probably
7:11
should have been the name of my podcast, honestly, instead of Weddings For Real.
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Becca: I think that's the case though in a lot of businesses in our industry.
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So many people I talked to say, well, I didn't really mean to start a business.
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I just kind of ended up starting one.
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So we learn a lot along the way, which is why it's great that there's so much
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education out there now to help people.
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So for you, then looking back over your journey, you said you made some
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mistakes when you bought the business, but what about this topic of boundaries?
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When you look back over those years, of wedding planning.
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Were there moments where you realized, yeah, I made some mistakes
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when it came to setting boundaries between yourself and your clients?
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Megan: Oh, I made all the mistakes, Becca, I didn't make some of them.
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I identified jokingly, but truly as a recovering people pleaser.
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I am an Enneagram 3 for anyone that gets into the Enneagram
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and that is the Achiever type.
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There's nine types and I am built to hustle.
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I've come to learn that there is a dark side to that as I have gone
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through seasons of overwhelm and resentment and burnout in being an
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entrepreneur and trying to, Stretch myself to be everything to everyone.
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And the way that that showed up in my wedding business is that there were
8:30
certain things that in the effort of trying to build something successful
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and have happy clients and also be a mom, because I am a mom to three.
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I, I went so far outside of boundaries that I don't even think I had in place in
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the beginning that, yeah, there were red flag clients, there were no sense of work
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hours or work life balance, there were.
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What I joke about is like the quarterly meltdown that I would have as an
9:01
entrepreneur, where everything starts to build up and you get to that point where
9:05
it's sort of a game over meltdown, then reset and do the same thing over again.
9:10
So boundaries are something that I feel very passionate about talking
9:14
about now because I also deeply care.
9:17
about serving your clients well and making sure that you are creating an experience
9:24
that creates raving fans, you know, just referral machine in your business, but
9:29
it has to be done with boundaries that keep you in the industry for a long
9:36
time instead of getting to a place where it's too much and you leave because
9:39
your bank account does not reflect.
9:42
the hustle that you have put into growing it.
9:44
Becca: So true.
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And I think there's a lot of people pleasers in the wedding industry.
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I think that's why we go into this business, right?
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Because we want to please people.
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We want to make people happy.
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We want them to have the best day.
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And I know there will be people listening to this who are.
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In that situation that you just described yourself being in, where they feel
10:02
like they have no boundaries and their clients are contacting them at two
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o'clock in the morning and they are getting cross with them when they don't
10:08
reply to an email after 30 seconds and they just feel completely overwhelmed.
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So have you got any practical thoughts, any steps to just help people get out
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of that space and get into a space where they have a little bit more
10:20
control and a few more boundaries?
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Megan: Yes.
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Okay.
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I have, I've broken this down really into four sort of containers, four buckets,
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and there's, there's several strategies within each and we won't have time
10:34
to go deep into those, but I thought what we could do is talk about one.
10:38
actionable strategy from each bucket.
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Because my goal is that someone is giving their time, they're listening to this
10:45
episode, and I want them to walk away with a nugget or something that they can truly
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take and implement into their business.
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And before I get into those, Becca, I got to quote my girl, Taylor Swift, honestly,
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when she says, I'm the problem, it's me because The reality is if we look at our
11:02
business, how we show up in our business, what that lack of boundaries looks like,
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95 percent of the time we have to turn it back internally and say that we are
11:13
not one communicating the boundaries.
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And if we are communicating them, we're not upholding them when a
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client tries to run right past them.
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So that's why, you know, I have a candle sitting on my desk that
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literally says I'm the problem.
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It's me.
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And it's my reminder of like, Hey.
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I'm the one that has to, one, figure out what my boundaries are,
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communicate them, and then uphold them.
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So with that, the four different buckets that we'll, we'll break this down
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into is your website, your contract, your onboarding, and then yourself.
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So number one is your website.
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And there's two real key ways to start to communicate your boundaries
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and attract a client that is going to be your ideal client.
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Number one is in the messaging and copy that you are putting out there, remember
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that speaking to everyone and trying to attract everyone is going to bring in
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a wide array of client types and some of those are going to be types that
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really Push up against your boundaries.
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So getting clear on who you want to work with, who you want to speak
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to, what those red flags might have looked like in clients you've worked
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with thus far and where they came from and what attracted them to you.
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That's, that's one piece of work.
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But then my one actionable strategy for you as it relates to boundaries in
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your website is highly consider an FAQ.
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section on your website.
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This is a great way to attract your ideal client, repel a non ideal client,
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start to speak about pricing ranges, start to talk about what your packages
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look like, who you're for, who you're not for, and that's one clear way on
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your website to start to bring in that ideal client and push away clients
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that may not be the right fit for you.
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Becca: A hundred percent.
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I love that.
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I think I'm all about the fact that we want to repel more people that we,
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than we attract because otherwise we just make more work for ourselves.
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So that's a great tip.
13:10
Okay.
13:10
Number two, then the contract.
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This sounds exciting.
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Megan: Maybe.
13:15
I mean, it's, it's.
13:16
something.
13:17
It is absolutely something.
13:18
So as a wedding planner for 12 years, I had a legitimate contract, but there were
13:23
quite a few clauses that I would add to my contract as I encountered some of those
13:29
red flag clients or boundary pushers.
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that made me question why I was doing something and how to prevent
13:36
that happening in the future.
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So as you're looking at your contract, I'm going to throw out
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really four clauses to consider.
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I'm not going to give you the verbiage because I'm not a lawyer, but these are
13:46
things that I would either consult with a lawyer or purchase a contract template
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that likely includes clauses like this.
13:53
Number one for me is a professional vendor clause.
13:56
As a wedding planner, I found myself working with.
13:58
Aunt Sally who did flowers from 20 years ago, from brother who's the DJ but
14:04
also works as a chiropractor, from the cake artist that was the grandmother's
14:10
best friend who made cakes on the side, and all of those things resulted
14:14
in disasters for the wedding day.
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So I added a professional vendor clause in my contract that said, if
14:20
you're working with me, then I require that you also work with professional.
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licensed insured vendors for these particular categories.
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Now you get to decide what those categories look like, but that's in short
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what a professional vendor clause is.
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I had a communication clause that said my clients need to respond within a
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timely manner so that that doesn't hold up the process in working together.
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I had a client abuse clause that said verbal physical abuse and it outlined
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what some of those things might look like will not be tolerated during the
14:51
planning process as well as on the wedding day and should that happen here are the
14:55
terms of what the cancellation of our agreement will look like and then an
14:58
availability clause and this was key as we had a team and sometimes a client would
15:06
book without having their wedding date.
15:08
So this outlined what it would look like, how many dates we would hold, how
15:12
long we would hold those dates for, and what the time frame would look like for
15:15
us to select a venue and then partner them up with one of our team members.
15:20
And it gave options of if a date that they selected That particular
15:24
team member that they wanted was not available what their options were for
15:28
working with someone else on the team.
15:30
So those are like four rapid fire contract clauses that help set boundaries.
15:34
Becca: Super helpful.
15:35
And I definitely think there'll be people listening to this that don't
15:38
even have a very good contract.
15:39
So if you're thinking, Oh, red flag, I don't even have a contract,
15:43
let alone all those clauses.
15:44
Please go and speak to a lawyer or, like Megan said, find a contract
15:48
template that's okay to use here in the UK as well because a lot
15:51
of them come out of the States.
15:52
You've just got to be careful that it's right.
15:54
But yeah, contract is so important because if you do have a problem, which
15:58
we'll talk more about in a little while, you want something to fall back on.
16:01
So that's contract.
16:02
Let's talk about onboarding.
16:03
Megan: Okay, this will be quick.
16:05
This one is, as you're bringing on a new client, there are two
16:08
things that are really important.
16:09
If you are a volume based business, then you can go the route of recording
16:14
a short general video that you send to your clients that says, we're
16:18
so excited to get working with you.
16:20
Here you'll find a link to our client, new client welcome guide, which has some
16:25
important information on X, Y, and Z.
16:28
If you are a high level, high touch business, then you need to plan to do
16:35
either a personal video recording for each client or an onboarding call that
16:40
communicates the same things, but a welcome guide which outlines helpful
16:45
information that the client needs.
16:48
Some frequently asked questions for a new client.
16:50
It It eases the buyer's remorse and it sets you up as the expert
16:56
and, and communicates things like hours of availability.
16:59
Do you meet on weekends?
17:01
What's the best way to communicate with you?
17:03
A welcome guide is a, you must have in your business in 2024.
17:09
And when I speak on stages and I ask my attendees to raise their hands, if
17:13
they currently have a welcome guide that they use, I still am seeing about
17:17
50 percent say, you know, Kind of a hand raised and the goal of the welcome
17:22
guide is not to be a It's a 47 page document that you send at the time that
17:26
they book and it is never used again.
17:28
There's ways to encourage your clients to use it throughout the planning process.
17:32
That can be a whole other separate episode.
17:34
But in short, onboarding and setting expectations through a call, a video, and
17:40
a welcome guide are key for boundaries.
17:43
Becca: So important.
17:44
And I think the thing is, we're living in a generation now where people are
17:47
used to being on Netflix, being on Amazon and everything happening instantly.
17:51
They get instant chat with everyone.
17:53
And so then when they work with us, they forget that we are not like that.
17:58
So it's really important.
18:00
for people to set out those, those hours, because sometimes people
18:03
come say to me, Oh, this client's really annoying me because they're
18:06
messaging me at 10 o'clock at night.
18:08
And I say to them, have you ever told them they can't?
18:11
No.
18:12
So yeah.
18:13
Megan: Yeah.
18:13
If it's in your head, but not.
18:15
Yes.
18:16
Yes.
18:16
Yes.
18:16
Which kind of takes me to our last.
18:19
bucket for boundaries and that is yourself and your mindset.
18:24
And this is where you have to carve out a little bit of time and reflect
18:28
on where you are in your career and what's working and what's not.
18:32
So if you're looking back at your last year of clients and you're
18:36
noticing like, you know what?
18:37
Really?
18:38
Like led to some moments of overwhelm, resentment, burnout were the clients
18:43
that were texting or the clients that were reading emails or the clients
18:47
that were showing up late to meetings or the clients that were asking me
18:51
to do things that weren't part of the package that they had booked me.
18:55
So identifying those, I call them like the soul suck moments of your business,
19:01
identifying those soul sucks and then asking yourself again, what you just
19:05
said, Becca is like, am I currently.
19:08
communicating on the front end with my clients that these are
19:11
things that they shouldn't do.
19:12
And if I am communicating those things and it's still happening,
19:16
is it because I'm allowing it or is there some other problem?
19:21
And oftentimes this is that 95 percent taking it back
19:24
to I'm the problem, it's me.
19:26
95 percent of the time you're going to find that you're communicating it.
19:29
At the front end and not talking about it when the boundaries are
19:32
passed, or you're not communicating it and it's just in your head.
19:36
So making that list of what you're not going to allow moving forward
19:41
and what that plan needs to look like and I just want to Take a moment to
19:45
acknowledge this because as someone that's still to this day, almost
19:50
14 years into being in the wedding industry, I still struggle with this.
19:54
I still struggle with setting boundaries and holding myself to it.
19:59
Like I am the one that tends to set a boundary and then want to do more
20:05
or say, you know, okay, well just this one time or for this one person.
20:09
And so for me, this is a quarterly.
20:12
Reboot that I have to do within my business.
20:15
Once a quarter I sit down and I, I analyze like what happened over the last 90
20:19
days that really were points of tension.
20:23
And how do I not take this to the next 90 days of my business?
20:27
So it is a constant work in progress.
20:29
It is not easy.
20:29
I don't want to make it sound easy, but it is the work that helps you
20:33
shift away from feeling all of that resentment, overwhelm, and burnout.
20:38
Becca: I love that you're being so honest about your own experiences
20:41
and being real about the fact that this is an ongoing process.
20:44
And I know there'll be people listening who are thinking, yeah Megan, but when
20:48
that bride texts me at 10 o'clock, even though I've told them they can't
20:51
text me at eight o'clock, what can I do so that I don't upset them?
20:55
Like practically, do I tell them that they shouldn't reply?
20:58
Do I tell them the next day?
20:59
Have you got any thoughts on practically how to deal with those issues?
21:03
Megan: Great question.
21:04
So there's a couple of different routes you can take with this.
21:06
One, you can shoot them back a text the next morning and say, thank you so
21:11
much for reaching, you know, or thank you so much for texting me about this.
21:14
If you don't mind, I would love for you to drop this in an email and send it my
21:19
way because I don't want it to get lost.
21:21
And it's important that I can follow up on this.
21:23
And I'm out and about today, or I won't be at my desk until 10 a.
21:27
m.
21:28
and you'll be one of my top priorities when I get there.
21:30
Can you please shoot this over in an email?
21:32
That's option one.
21:33
Option two is you can shoot them an email when you do get to your desk and
21:39
say, Hey, Becca, I saw your text come in last night and I just wanted to
21:44
make sure that you know that I saw it.
21:46
It's important to me.
21:47
In the future, if you wouldn't mind dropping it in an email to me so that
21:50
I can make sure that nothing gets lost.
21:52
Your ultimate goal is to communicate to them that the reason why it's
21:57
important that they stick to the boundary is for their benefit and
22:01
their great client experience.
22:03
So you don't have to make it about you like.
22:05
I don't respond to text or I try to shut down or I'm with my family.
22:10
You can just clearly say like, this is the way we do it and it is for your benefit.
22:14
You don't have to get into the nitty gritty of the behind
22:17
the scenes of your life.
22:18
Yeah, that's really helpful.
22:19
Becca: And I think as well, actually it's okay if they want to email you
22:22
late at night as long as they know that you're not going to reply because their
22:25
schedule might look different to yours.
22:26
They may be working and then wedding planning in the evening.
22:29
So you're right.
22:30
As long as we're clear about, you know, I love that.
22:33
I'm only replying now because this is my working hours and I want to help you.
22:36
Yeah, absolute gold.
22:38
Now, one of the other areas that I find my wedding pros struggle with when it comes
22:43
to boundaries, and I'm sure you'll have experienced this a little bit too from
22:46
what you've been saying is becoming overly emotionally invested in their couples.
22:53
So it's a blur of boundaries where they have been hired as
22:56
the wedding planner or the.
22:57
Cakemaker the florist and now all of a sudden it almost feels
23:01
like they've become friends and it kind of goes all a bit icky.
23:05
Any thoughts on how you can become less emotionally invested
23:09
and keep it like business?
23:11
Megan: This is something that I struggled with in my career as a wedding planner.
23:16
For me, I tried to focus on my time working with them,
23:20
whatever that period of time is.
23:22
First and foremost, I have to be the professional that they've hired.
23:27
That doesn't mean I can't be warm and friendly and joke and get to
23:31
know them and their lives and feel like a member of their family.
23:35
But at the end of the day, I am hired to be a professional and
23:39
do a certain service for them.
23:41
So I focus on that during the time that we're working together and then
23:45
I have the friendship that comes.
23:47
After the wedding day, which I can tell you has absolutely happened.
23:51
I have been to past clients baby showers.
23:53
I have taken a trip to New York City with a client that I worked
23:57
with, but all of these things happened after the wedding day.
24:01
So I'm friendly, I'm warm, I'm connected to them, but I focus on
24:05
professionalism first and foremost.
24:07
And friendship can come after the fact, like Facebook friend request.
24:10
I wouldn't even accept those until.
24:12
After I have completed their wedding because I don't want them seeing
24:16
that I'm posting something by taking my kids to a fair and I'm
24:20
not responding to their emails.
24:22
Like I need a little bit of protection there.
24:25
Becca: Yeah, and I think it's so easy for those lines to be blurred because
24:28
we are working with people on that special day and they're all happy and if
24:33
you, if we let ourselves go too early, then that's when they start breaking in
24:38
and breaking those boundaries because they think they can get away with it.
24:42
Megan: So true.
24:42
Yeah, it is so true.
24:43
And I think that's where you start doing things for free or you start
24:47
not sending that invoice because they're so nice and you don't want to.
24:50
So I think that's where you have to keep that focus on
24:52
professionalism, first and foremost.
24:54
Becca: Yeah.
24:54
And sometimes I say to people, I'm like, just take a step back.
24:57
And imagine, like, when you send a parcel back because you don't like
25:00
the clothing you've bought from ASOS Online, do you think someone's sad at
25:04
the other end that you sent it back?
25:06
No, because it's a business, and we are business owners too, so we need to stop
25:11
feeling so deeply about everything.
25:13
And just remember, it's a business transaction.
25:15
Like, Starbucks aren't crying if I say I don't like their coffee.
25:18
You don't need to cry.
25:20
It's just a business.
25:21
Megan: Right.
25:22
And I love that you said that because I will also take that same analogy and
25:26
turn it towards setting boundaries.
25:29
So take your local coffee shop, right?
25:31
They have certain hours and they have certain menu items.
25:36
If I go to your local coffee shop and I'm like, Hey, could I get some pasta
25:40
sauce with vodka and you know, on the side, and I know that you closed an hour
25:46
ago, but I'm just wondering if you could like, figure out how to make it for me.
25:50
They're not going to be like, sure, hold on, no problem.
25:52
I'm going to do it.
25:53
No, hopefully they're not going to be there because they closed an hour ago
25:57
and they're going to say, we don't have the capability to, to offer that to you.
26:00
It's not on our menu.
26:02
However, what I see small business owners doing in our industry is going totally
26:07
outside of their boundaries and serving in a way that does not serve their clients
26:11
well and does not serve the longevity of growing their business well either.
26:15
Becca: Okay, Megan, so we've spoken a lot about boundaries and how a
26:18
lot of the time it might be an us problem instead of a them problem.
26:22
But we also know that, you know, in that 5%, sometimes
26:26
it actually is a them problem.
26:28
And sometimes we do come across a client who, despite us keep reminding
26:32
them and setting the boundaries, really takes it too far and starts
26:35
breaking some of those agreements.
26:37
And that's a really tough spot to be in, especially for us people pleasers.
26:41
So is there ever a time when it's right for us to fire a client, and how
26:45
do we even go about doing that well?
26:46
Megan: Oh yes, there's, there definitely is a time, and you're right.
26:51
There will be about five percent is, is my best guess.
26:54
Looking at the number of weddings that I did over a 12 year period
26:57
of time, and the number of clients that I did let go, I fired.
27:02
It is not easy when you are dealing with someone's wedding day, and
27:06
there are high stakes, high demand, high drama, high everything.
27:10
To, to fire a client is a delicate situation and there's really no guaranteed
27:18
way to do it to avoid some potential points of friction that may come up.
27:23
But my best strategy here is to Let's say you have a difficult client and
27:30
you are feeling like you can't make them happy and they are blowing past
27:36
any boundaries that you have set in place and there is a lack of respect.
27:40
You just feel like not only are you not on the same page, you are
27:44
in completely different books.
27:46
Your first step.
27:47
is to ask for a, a meeting.
27:51
I call this internally.
27:52
It's like a relationship reset meeting.
27:54
So this is your opportunity to get them on the phone.
27:57
This is not an email because this is not something that belongs in an email.
28:01
Honestly, it is.
28:02
I'd love to have a conversation with you so we can discuss X, Y, and Z.
28:06
When is the time that works for you?
28:08
On that call, your goal is to acknowledge where the relationship is, try to practice
28:14
empathy and understand where they may be coming from, and determine if on
28:19
that call you feel like you can proceed forward and continue working together, or
28:24
if truly it is at a place of disrepair.
28:28
If it is in a place where you feel like there were some misunderstandings,
28:31
you've worked it through and you can continue on, then you need to set your
28:37
own internal boundaries to know at that point, like, okay, here we go.
28:41
We're starting afresh.
28:42
I've said that I will do X, Y, and Z.
28:45
They said they will do this.
28:46
Let's go.
28:47
And if 30 days later you still feel like you're in the same spot, then
28:52
it might be time to fire that client.
28:53
Alternatively, if you're on that call and you determine this is, we cannot see
28:58
eye to eye, things are not okay, it may be time to fire that client right then.
29:03
Firing a client has Quite a few different paths of what I call
29:08
like a choose your own adventure of how you want to handle it.
29:10
One, you have to look at what your contract says.
29:13
Two, you'll have to determine from a payment standpoint, is this something
29:17
that you are validated in keeping money that has been paid thus far?
29:22
Or, is this something where you will need to return money back if you are
29:27
walking away from this relationship?
29:29
I have done it both ways in the past.
29:31
There have been cases where I have Honestly, I've looked at my contract and I
29:36
have determined that although my contract says that I, it is perfectly acceptable
29:43
for me to keep my non refundable retainer or deposit, whatever you call it It is
29:48
in my best interest to bless and release.
29:51
Is that a term that y'all use over there?
29:53
Bless and release.
29:54
So at this point I've decided for my mental health, for just being able to
29:59
let it go and move on, I will give back money and sleep better at night that I
30:04
am no longer working with this person.
30:06
That's a personal choice.
30:08
I will not, you know, I, I would never guide you towards a path that
30:11
doesn't feel aligned to you as you're listening to this, but you have to
30:15
decide, are you keeping the money?
30:16
Are you giving the money back?
30:17
What does your contract say?
30:19
And how do you walk away from a situation that is tense and does have a lot of.
30:26
feeling and emotion wrapped up in it and how can you lean into empathy
30:30
and understanding that your lived experience is completely different than
30:36
that other person's lived experience.
30:38
And it's, like I said, it's a very delicate situation.
30:41
I don't know if you have follow up questions for that.
30:43
Becca: Yeah, I do have a couple of follow up questions.
30:45
So the first one is, do you think it's a bit like what you said before, where we
30:49
need to make it about them and not us?
30:51
So are we saying, actually, I think you would do better with a different
30:55
planner rather than you're a client from my nightmares and I don't want you.
31:00
Megan: Yes, it is, it is so true.
31:02
If you can make it about them and the benefit for them, that's the number
31:05
one goal is, listen, I don't think that our team or myself that we have
31:12
the skill set that you are looking for and that you, you know, ultimately
31:16
deserve for this very special day.
31:19
So I think it would be in your best interest for you to partner with another
31:24
pro for photography, for cake or for whatever that particular category is.
31:29
Becca: And the other thing I think people are really scared about, which I think
31:32
you may have some experience to share is.
31:35
They're so scared of getting a negative review, an online review that says
31:39
something bad about them, that they'd almost rather move heaven and earth
31:42
and just hate their life for fear of getting this negative review.
31:46
Have you dealt with that?
31:47
Have you had a negative review?
31:49
And if not, what would you recommend people do about that?
31:52
Megan: Ah, such a great question.
31:54
And I do have a couple podcast episodes that I'll send you to include if you
31:59
want in the link for the show notes for here about negative reviews.
32:04
Negative reviews are scary, but they will not tank your business.
32:08
I can say this with 100 percent certainty because about four years into my planning
32:14
business, we had started to gain ground and build a really strong reputation.
32:19
We had all these five star reviews.
32:21
I was feeling really good.
32:23
And then I had a client come along that was, she was in the 5%.
32:26
She was an absolute nightmare client.
32:28
And I was four months into an 18 month.
32:30
Contract with her and I turned to my husband.
32:33
I was like, listen, I am dreading every day of my life.
32:35
Every time I check my email, every correspondence, everything
32:38
about this relationship is toxic to my life and I need to be done.
32:44
I tried to fire the client and the client was like, I tried the whole, you deserve
32:48
better, like you, you, you should be working with someone that really gets you.
32:52
And that client was like, you get me and we are going to continue working together.
32:57
Like I don't want to work with anyone else.
32:59
And I, my people pleaser really had to work through that one, but I ended up.
33:04
I gave back pretty much all of the money, again, because I wanted the peace
33:12
of mind with the exception of 400 that covered my travel fee for the site visit.
33:18
And the quick version here is that As soon as she got her money back, she went
33:23
on every review site, wrote horrible review about me on literally anywhere you
33:28
could write a review about a wedding pro.
33:30
And I was heartbroken.
33:33
I reached out to her and I said, I am, I thought we had ended this in
33:37
a good spot if this is over the 400.
33:40
Cause she made a mention in the review of like, she even kept money.
33:44
from us.
33:45
And so I said to her, if this is over the 400, you can have that back.
33:49
Like it doesn't, that does not matter to me at this point.
33:53
Then she went back on every review site and wrote, update, Megan offered
33:57
to pay us to take down this review.
33:59
Obviously we declined.
34:02
So, I tell this story because that was four years into my business.
34:06
I continued to have the business for eight years.
34:08
After that, as long as you respond professionally, not with emotion and
34:13
anger and you know, verb, verbiage that comes off as off putting.
34:18
If you respond professionally and write it as you want your future
34:22
client to read your response.
34:24
That's the best way to deal with negative reviews.
34:26
Negative reviews show that you're a real business.
34:29
It shows that you are human.
34:31
It shows that there are some crazy people out there, which typically you will see
34:35
in the way that they write their review.
34:37
And I would encourage you to Ask yourself, is this something that
34:43
is in my process that I did not do a good job of communicating how we
34:48
would be guiding them through this?
34:50
Did I drop the ball?
34:52
And is this something that their wedding date is within the next 90 days?
34:57
That's kind of where I have like my threshold.
34:59
If it's within 90 days, I say buckle up and get through.
35:04
If it's farther than 90 days out, Then I think it's worth considering if you
35:09
need to end the relationship, but when you touch a cancellation within 90
35:13
days, like you're in for, you're in for some client wrath, to be honest.
35:18
Becca: That's a great story.
35:19
I mean, horrendous to look back on, but wow.
35:24
And a reminder to us all that, yeah, a negative review isn't
35:27
going to ruin your business.
35:27
And again, kind of going back to what we were saying earlier.
35:30
I think we can take note from places like Starbucks, the big people,
35:33
because they're getting negative reviews left, right and center.
35:36
Let's watch what they do.
35:37
They reply to the review, normally very matter of fact saying, we're very willing
35:42
to talk to you about your experience.
35:43
We're sorry that this happened.
35:45
Please send us an email.
35:47
Megan: Yes, yes, yes.
35:50
Yeah.
35:51
What I've seen some really like heated, passionate, angry
35:55
business owner replies to reviews.
35:58
And that always.
36:00
It makes me feel a certain way.
36:01
And also, you know, while I have you, listener, I would say leaving
36:06
a negative review not responded to is also not a good move.
36:10
You need to respond to that.
36:11
Yeah, absolutely.
36:12
Becca: And sometimes we just need to sleep on it and suck up our
36:15
pride before we go right back on there and reply to that response.
36:20
Megan: I need that feedback too because I'm a you wronged me and I want to take
36:25
action right now type of girl and luckily I have people in my inner circle that
36:30
are like, no, let's just calm down, like let's sleep on it for a moment and then,
36:34
and then we'll figure out what happens.
36:36
Becca: And it always feels better the next day.
36:39
And we need to remember, right, we've, we've talked about a lot of stuff here.
36:42
We've got very real and honest, and hopefully it's been really
36:44
helpful for the listener.
36:45
But this is only 5 percent of the time.
36:47
If you're new to planning or new to the industry, don't let this scare you.
36:50
There's not that many nightmare clients out there, is there, Megan?
36:54
Megan: There is not.
36:54
There really is not.
36:55
And also, I would just say, like, So, the things that we talked about
36:58
in this episode as far as how we set boundaries prior to nightmare clients
37:03
will also help tame and reduce the percentage of nightmare clients.
37:08
Becca: Yeah, absolutely.
37:09
Oh, this has been so much fun to go all over the place and talk about boundaries.
37:14
I know it's going to be a lot of things in here that my listeners
37:17
are going to find super helpful.
37:18
I always end my podcast with the same question, Megan, so I'm going to
37:21
ask that to you now, which is this.
37:23
What's one thing you personally wish you'd known sooner in your own wedding business?
37:28
Megan: Ooh, Becca, this is so hard to answer.
37:30
Just one thing.
37:31
I think I would say, I wish I had known sooner that putting energy and so
37:40
much thought towards what others in my industry, my competition were thinking
37:47
about me was so wasted instead of just putting my head down and doing it.
37:53
leaning into what I knew I could deliver to my clients and what I
37:58
was going to bring to the industry.
37:59
My, my imposter syndrome, my inner critic, my worrying about what others believed
38:05
was a real slow down for me in my career.
38:09
Becca: Absolutely.
38:10
Such good advice.
38:11
Stay in your own lane and don't get distracted by everyone else.
38:14
Megan, it's been fabulous.
38:16
If you want to, people want to find out more about you, more about how to
38:19
work within these boundaries, where's the best place for them to find you?
38:23
Megan: Yes, I would love for you to come find me on Instagram.
38:27
I'm at weddings for real, which is my podcast for wedding pros.
38:31
And then I also have a membership for wedding planners
38:34
called the planners fault.
38:35
And I'm on Instagram there at at planners fault.
38:38
And I was just thinking as we were talking, I have a boundary setting
38:42
toolkit, which we can include the link in the show notes too, if you'd
38:46
like, which has some email templates.
38:48
It has an editable welcome guide, and that may be a really great resource.
38:52
For those of you that are like, okay, Megan, I hear you on the welcome guide.
38:55
Yeah, I, I think in the boundary setting toolkit, Becca, I have
38:59
three ways to say no to a, an inquiry that is not an ideal client.
39:04
So we make it, it's a, you have all the choices there.
39:07
Becca: I love that.
39:08
So helpful.
39:09
So yeah, if you're listening to this and you're thinking, I resonate a
39:12
lot with this and I need to sort this out, go and check that out.
39:15
I will make sure I link to all of Megan's things in the show notes
39:17
and that episode she mentioned from her own podcast, all about how to
39:21
deal with those negative reviews.
39:23
Megan, this has been such a pleasure.
39:24
Thank you so much for being here and hopefully we can be in a room together
39:28
in real life somewhere again soon.
39:30
Megan: Let's do it.
39:31
I can't wait.
39:31
And thank you so much for having me on the show.
39:33
What a great conversation.
39:34
It was fabulous.
39:35
Becca: Thanks for being here.
39:37
I love that conversation.
39:38
I know we went quite deep, but I think it's really important for us to talk
39:41
about the real side of the industry.
39:43
There's no point in us talking about all of the shiny things all of the time.
39:47
Actually we all know that there's real things to deal with, difficult
39:49
customers, difficult customers.
39:50
It's really important.
39:51
Boundaries that we have to overcome.
39:53
So I hope that you've taken away something really positive from this conversation.
39:57
And if you've got more questions or you've got things you want to chat
39:59
through, drop myself or Megan a message, and I'm sure we're happy to help.
40:03
I'll see you next time.