Latest / Rugby Direct / Rugby Direct Episode 254: Knockout blow or Bok fightback?

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Rugby Direct Episode 254: Knockout blow or Bok fightback? · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk ZB. Follow this
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. Get
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Elliot Smith and Liam Napier. Powered by Newstalk ZB.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Forklift Solutions. Lifting you
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level. Elliot Smith with me.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Liam Napier. Test team locked in for the second test
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: of Rugby's greatest rivalry. All Blacks leading the series 1-0
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: of course. Liam, we last convened on Sunday our time.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Good to see you again. Now move to Cape Town,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: back to sea level. Are you enjoying that?
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  Speaker 3: Loving it, yes.
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  Speaker 4: One of the great cities of the world, Cape Town. Picturesque, captivating, quite.
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  Speaker 3: Stunning, isn't it?
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  Speaker 2: That's just me.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what more can a man want to sit across
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  Speaker 3: the table from you? It's been a long tour. You're
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: looking bloody good, actually.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: We had the All Blacks play the Lions in Johannesburg.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: A little bit of an afterthought, really. That game, I
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: guess the All Blacks win it, but I don't know
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: what it means, if anything, in the context of the
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: wider tour. What did you take out of it?
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: Look, it's valuable, I think.
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: The whole tour is on the whole to bring 44,
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  Speaker 4: 45 players away and to keep them engaged the whole time,
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: to be able to give them game time. So that's
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: a positive, to get looks at different players, give guys
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: like Tava Tavanawa around the midfield, Have a look at
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  Speaker 4: Semisitai Loa and the Highlanders prop, Ma'u, off the bench.
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: I was really impressed by him. And a very special occasion.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: He was very emotional, wasn't he, in the post-match. So, look,
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: some positives. But it did feel like one game too
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: many on this tour. You played the first test.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: You're juggling everything.
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: Another game in the midst of the second test week.
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: It was a team that barely trained together and it
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: was very evident. Despite having quite a lot of experience
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: in that team, it was very scrappy. Look, credit to
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: the Lions, came to play. They were by far the
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: most enterprising, entertaining of the South African teams. Actually won
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: me over, came out to one of the Lion King songs.
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: And it was a great atmosphere for a very small crowd.
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: But yeah, the All Blacks' performance, I think... left a
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: lot to be desired, and wild guys like Rico Awani,
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: Ethan Blackadder, and Amoni Narawa impressed. They were never going
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: to be included for this second test, having all, I think,
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: played 80 minutes on a Tuesday before a Saturday game.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was never going to have a material impact.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: It may do for the third test and fourth test,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: but it was always hard to see a player that
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: went 80 minutes on the Tuesday night, backing up and
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: playing Saturday afternoon here, just unrealistic, I think. But look,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks take the win. It was not very pretty,
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: but they managed to rally from 18 points down. Young-ish
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: All Blacks team had to learn a few lessons, but
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: ultimately probably glad, I think, as a whole that the
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: midweek games are now done. We can focus on the
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: remaining three tests in the series. It's going to be
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: locked in. Focus on that. Don't have to worry about
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: any more midweekers. I think ultimately that's a good thing.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: And look, we talked a little bit last week around
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: the future shape of the series. They'll probably go back
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: and tweak it. They modelled this one very much on
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: a Lions series style. You play a whole lot of
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: tour games before the first test, and then you play
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: one more after it. But I think the difference with
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: the Lions is that you're bringing players from four different
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: teams together into one. You have to get combinations right.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: You have to get things sorted. And in the modern-day
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: professional system for the All Blacks, I think it doesn't
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: quite mirror what the Lions look to get out of
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  Speaker 2: those midweekers.
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, SARU president Mike Alexander has already come out
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: and said these franchise games haven't worked, and there's a
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: number of contributing factors for that. I think the games
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: leading into the Test Series can provide value. Probably, you know,
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  Speaker 4: they're such special occasions for emerging players, veteran players who
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: haven't played or maybe never will on the Test scene.
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  Speaker 4: The Lions certainly rose to the occasion, and they're valuable
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: for the All Blacks to bring over a wider squad.
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  Speaker 4: But I think if they had a choice next time around,
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  Speaker 4: that'd been that last game. It just felt like a
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  Speaker 4: bit much, a bit unnecessary when you're trying to prepare
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  Speaker 4: for a massive second test.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it will be a massive second test on
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Saturday afternoon. We'll get into that in a moment. Some
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: other news out of the All Blacks camp. Anton Signer,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: his tour is over. Unfortunately for him, we suspected this
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: would be the case Back on Sunday, he's had whole surgery.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: The good news, potentially, is that he should be back
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: for the Bledisloe series in October. So a positive there
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: for Anton Cegna, but look, an opportunity missed, and who
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: knows how they would have configured the side had he
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: been fit for this week. All sorts of sliding doors
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: moments and that sort of thing, but shame that his
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: tour has come to an end.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. He was in great form.
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: And really feel for him, having been on the cusp
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: of playing the box at Ells Park and having that
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: ripped away from him. But as you say, maybe a
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: best-case scenario in terms of what we originally thought it
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: might be, arthritis, all sorts of permutations around how that
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: might look, but the fact it was more an infection
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: by the sounds and it's been cleaned out and he's
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: expected to make a full recovery. Saw him boosting round
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: on one of those How would you describe that contraption
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: with the leg up and the wheels?
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sort of like a mini moped sort of thing, yeah.
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: Mini scooter around the team hotel while they were playing
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: a bit of BYC out in the courtyards. Look, the
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: All Blacks seem in great spirits generally, don't they? And
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: even Anton Cegner, you know, while he's disappointed, he'll be back.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: He will be, absolutely, and it's a good thing for
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Simon Parker who gets the opportunity. Let's get into the
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: team that has been named for Saturday afternoon's test, 5pm
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: local time, 3am in New Zealand. no real surprises apart
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: from the big one in the back line, which is
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: the only unforced change that Dave Rennie's made to his 23,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: which is Leroy Carter in for Josh Morby, and Dave
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Rennie explaining that's purely a defensive decision, or largely a
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: defensive decision, backing Leroy Carter's defence over Josh Morby, but
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: said the call was tight as it was the previous week,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: so a little bit of a surprise that Leroy Carter's
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: won that race.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it is a surprise.
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: Look, Josh Morby missed the tackle on Esterhazen, just pure one-on-one,
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: bumped off. That was his Springboks-only try, so maybe he's
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: paid the price for that one moment. He did respond
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: and take that juggling Tupu Vai offload to score, and
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: he's had some moments. I think Lee Ricarda is better defensively.
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  Speaker 4: We saw that at Eden Park last September, came off
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: his wing, put in some massive hits, punches above his weight,
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: talked about how that stems from the seven scene where
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: you're covering a lot of ground. I'm not sure Lee
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: Rokata is going to solve the All Blacks issues under
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: the high ball, but I guess we'll find out.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: We will indeed. Look, I asked him, I asked him,
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: how do you solve or handle the high ball? And
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: he just says, just try to catch it, which I
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: suppose is true. But it seems to be a real
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Achilles heel for the All Blacks. Whoever they put on
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: the wing seems to be battling with the whole grasp
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  Speaker 2: of actually being able to do so.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's pretty hard to navigate, isn't it? It is
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  Speaker 4: a strength for the box, not just their penchant for
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: going to the air, but their wingers, their loose forwards,
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: their locks, all contestable very well. They love to make
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: it scrappy, and it's an ongoing vulnerability for the All Blacks.
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: They have improved with the technique of running back and
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: catching the ball, but they weren't great at Alice Park
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: in that area. And I do wonder if a guy
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: like Amoni Narawa, I know it's only a small sample size,
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  Speaker 4: but he really does feel like a guy in terms
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: of his size and skill set that could rapidly come
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  Speaker 4: through the ranks there.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe. I'm not convinced about Narawa under the high
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: ball either, but no one else is convincing. So I
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: would like to see him get another opportunity in the
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: All Blacks. Last test match he played was At Eden
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Park last year, scored a wonderful try off a Bowdoin
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Mount Crossfield kick and then got himself injured in the
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: act of scoring. I think he's still got plenty more
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: to give at test level. I think the jury is
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: firmly out on Finneanga Norfolk and whether he is a.
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: Seems quite brittle, almost gets injured every time he plays.
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: He looked like he limped off at Alice Park 45
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: minutes into that game.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's some question marks, and it'll be
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: fascinating to see, and this is, you know, we've got
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: three tests against it, I forget to get through first,
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: and a bled is low, but what Dave Rennie does
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: for the end of year tour, and, you know, Lester Fying,
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: a nook who might be back, or should be back
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: by then.
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: He's a pretty valuable asset to have on the bench
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: to cover. Certainly, the All Blacks view him as a wing,
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: who can maybe pitch in the loose forwards, so a
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: squeeze is coming.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: The squeeze is coming. Kyron Tamuifala is playing really well
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: for Tasman. He is eligible, I think, around October.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: Caleb Clarke probably done for the year?
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: I think so, but I haven't heard the full extent
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: of that. So, yeah, the squeeze is coming, and it's
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: time for players to put their hands up, and a
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: big opportunity for Leroy Carter this week. The other changes
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: uh fairly well telegraphed from Dave Rennie um I guess
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: there was a bit of um consternation I suppose is
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: the word whether they would go with uh Parker on
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: the blind side or with their retained Tupo Vaidya and
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: put Tui Piloto uh in the second row we knew
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: it was going to be Tui Piloto in the 23
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: given how early he was hooked from the winner over
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: the Lions but they've gone with Parker on the blind
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: side massive test for Simon Parker coming on Saturday afternoon
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: isn't it?
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: Absolutely and look he's made massive strides certainly in the
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: All Blacks eyes from July where he was well down
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: the rung didn't feature at all he started up blind
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: side against the Stormers and the Bulls the All Blacks
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: were really impressed by what he did against the Bulls
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: and They rate his profile, don't they? His size, his
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: ability to defend the mall, to bring a bit of
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: height to the lineouts, to do the dirty work around
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: the rucks. And it was interesting to hear Dave Rennie
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: talk today that they're still going to try and use
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: Tupu Vai on the edges where he was really effective
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: early on, in particular against the box, and to get
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: Parker in the middle of the park. So Parker's effectively
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: playing around the field like a lock potentially, and Tupu
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: Vai is playing loose forward, so it's only in the scrums.
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: And it does make sense because Tupu Vai was a
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: big part of shoring up that scrum, switching from blindside
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: to lock. And then I think when Tui Palautu comes on,
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: maybe Vai will go to the blindside as well.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, could well be what they do there. Parker's going
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: to have to step up. He has had opportunities previously
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: and failed to probably convince, but this is a big opportunity.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: as I say, Anton Signer's out injured I think back
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: to a couple of years ago here in South Africa
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: where they brought in Wallace Atiti at Blindside Flanker for
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: the Cape Town Test and that really set off the
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: path of Wallace Atiti becoming at that stage a first
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: choice All Black for the rest of that season. He's
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: now fallen away a little bit but Parker's got a
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: big opportunity to stamp his mark on this Test series
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: and an All Blacks jersey I think on Saturday afternoon
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: so We'll see how he goes.
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, massive opportunity for him, particularly in an area that's stacked,
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: isn't it? I just want to raise something here. A
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: bit of an undercurrent suggestions maybe of an inherent or
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: subconscious chief spice among the All Blacks selectors. We've seen
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: Bradley Slater called in at hooker. I don't know if
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: it's prevalent.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: They could have called in East Feather Blues. Brodie McAllister
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: was a Chiefs option.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, but.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: OK, that's more of a Taranaki connection, isn't it, with
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: Neil Barnes? You all right? I think in terms of
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: contestable selections, you could look at guys like Simon Parker,
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: Lee Ricarda, and maybe Anton Leonard-Brown and say Chiefs guys
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: have potentially been favoured. Look, Scott Robertson, when he got
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: the job, massive scrutiny on whether he was going to
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: favour the Crusaders. I don't think he did that. Overlook
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: guys like Havillee. Dave Rennie doesn't necessarily have a lot
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: of personal connections with players from the Chiefs. Maybe Dave Rennie, sorry,
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: Damien McKenzie and a couple of others.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he said he coached Luke Jacobson when
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: he was quite young.
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and look, I'll be the first to admit, I
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: didn't think Luke Jacobson was the right selection and he
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: has absolutely taken that chance and.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: Run with it.
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: Do you feel like there's any credence to that at
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: this point?
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. Look, I think Yeah, people will
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: argue that the Hurricanes finished and won the title this year,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: but it doesn't feel like there's an inherent Chiefs bias
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: to that point. I think what we're probably seeing is
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: some Chiefs players that we're probably seeing the best out
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: of at test level that maybe we hadn't previously, and
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Luke Jacobson would be number one in that regard. So
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: I think Dave Rennie's come in and gone, maybe this
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: guy hasn't been used as well as he could have
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: been previously, hadn't been given the right job, for want
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: of a better more encompassing term in a in a
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: test match team um and now they're finding ways that
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: they can utilize it so i don't think so um
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: you know you can always talk to your own biases
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: but i don't see it there at the moment um
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: but there's always room for that to grow over time
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: and play and coaches always have their own you know
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: favorite players and not actually blind spots but they have
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: players that they believe they can get the best out of.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, their tendencies. It's interesting to see how it evolves.
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: I think this game's, I think it's probably too soon
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: to make that sort of judgment, but there is certainly
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: guys like Rico and Naraway, who's another chief, to be fair,
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: and Blackadder, maybe. That was one performance against a Lions team,
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: so there's a bit of context there. But yeah, interesting
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: to see how things evolve. Look, we're in Cape Town.
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: We went up Table Mountain yesterday. Stunning views, nice to
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: take in some of the city. It's got a few nicknames,
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: the Mother City, and the Cape of Good Hope was
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: originally named the Cape of Storms by a Portuguese sailor
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: who named it because of the rough seas and the
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: wild weather and the treacherous sailing. And you see where
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: I'm going with this?
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, the storm is.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: Yes, and there's also a storm of brewing this weekend. Ah,
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: there you go.
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: That's good stuff. What sort of a backlash are you
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: expecting from the box?
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: I am expecting one. But it's hard to quantify a backlash.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: I don't think we'll get what we saw in Wellington
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: last year, where they tore the All Blacks, To shreds.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: It was a very different team.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Very different team. There were a lot more changes made
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: by Rusty Rasmus that week. Similarly, he lost on the Saturday,
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: named his team on the Monday like he did this week.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: But I suspect they'll just play a little bit smarter
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: potentially this week, South Africa, than what they did at
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Alice Park. And what I mean by that is rather
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: than scrum, penalty, scrum again, it might be scrum, penalty,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: take the shot at goal, go back again.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: Snap a few drop goals.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Snap a few drop goals, points, pressure, scoreboard pressure. They
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: weren't able to build it against the All Blacks. Yeah,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: that score, the All Blacks sort of scored against the
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: run of play once, twice in the first spell. And
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: when the ascendancy got on, they weren't able to capitalise
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: with points. So if the Springboks are able to get
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: the scrum ascendancy again, and the All Blacks will certainly
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: be hoping that is not the case, I would suspect
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: that they'll be taking shots at goal. We know how
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: good Pollard is. As a goal kicker, he can take
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: them from 60 metres out, even not at altitude. He's
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: that kind of goal kicker. So I think they'll be smarter.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: But I think the All Blacks, in a funny way,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: will also be better. And they have to be, because
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: if they play like they did in Johannesburg, they're not
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: going to beat the Springboks two weeks in a row
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: like that. So do I expect a backlash? No, I
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: expect the Springboks to play smarter. than they did at
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Alice Park, but I also expect the All Blacks to
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: be better too. Would probably sum it up for me. Yeah,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: that's a good summation. I think there's no surprises, again,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: with the boxers. You look at that team, you know
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: exactly what you're going to get. They will come in
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: the set piece. They're going to hoist to the heavens
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: with Pollard.
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: They're going to hope that Sir Khaleesi brings a bit
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: of an inspirational presence. They had a lot of dominance,
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: so they're just going to try and double down on that.
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: Where the All Blacks, as you say, got the last
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: quarter right, but there's many aspects of that game they
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: didn't get right. They conceded 14 penalties. Their high ball
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: work was scratchy, as we've touched on. The scrum was
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: under massive pressure, the starting front row. And just on that,
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: it was interesting today to hear Dave Rennie make some
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: pretty pointed comments that he'd spoken to World Rugby and
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: that he has raised concerns, probably through the clips that
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: they can send in to the officials as well, about
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: the Springboks illegally walking the scrum around, and if that's
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: policed properly, then he's confident that the All Blacks scrum
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: will be much better.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: Is that mind games?
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: I think it's definitely mind games from Dave Rennie. I
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: think it was your question. The last question of the
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: media conference, it felt like, Dave, I think you asked
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: about ball and play, and all of a sudden we're
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: talking about scrums. And I get there is a link
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: between the two, but I felt like he wanted to
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: squeeze that in before the time was up. Well, I
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: think with the All Blacks, they need to get that
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: ball in play up from, I think it was 28 minutes,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: up into, even if they can add.
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: I think in July it was 41, 43.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: One of those games, I think the game under the roof,
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: it was Virgil on 41. If they can get that
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: to even 35, then they play the way they want.
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: They can bring fatigue into the game. They can use
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: the width. They can tire the box forwards out.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: And that's not to say they will win the game,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: but it's the way that they see the path to victory.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: The box might be able to hang with them for
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: 35 minutes ball and play. I'm not saying that's the
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: dead set. That's the way to win. But the All
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Blacks will feel more comfortable if the ball is in
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: play for longer periods of the game. And we saw
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: a lot of scrum resets. We saw a lot of
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: scrum penalties. So they weren't able to bring fatigue into
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: the game. They didn't even need to use their bench,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of the bench, until quite late in the
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: game because even their own players weren't fatigued. So that
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: would be one step there. But to back to your
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: original point around scrums, look, they would have sent the
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Clips in They would hope that the pictures that they're
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: presenting to Angus Gardner, and we'll mention that in a moment,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: but the pictures they're presenting are better than the ones
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: they showed last week to Matthew Carley. And I do
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: think there is a tendency, and this isn't a criticism
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: of Matthew's, Carley or any of the referees, but there
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: is a tendency to view a powerful scrum as therefore
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: an illegal scrum on the other side.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: There's a lot more technicalities there.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I get why, and I see why in
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: world rugby, but I think there is certainly a case
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: where just because they've gone to the floor doesn't mean
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: necessarily they were scrumming illegally.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this is a massive test for George Bauer.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, totally.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: There's a big difference between coming off the bench, and
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: I think Asafa Amor's role in stabilising that scrum has
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: been massively downplayed as well, alongside Fletcher Newell. So, huge
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: test for George Bauer, and that scrum platform, you would think,
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: is going to be very defining. When I look also
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: at what the All Blacks did well, I thought defensively
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: they were very.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: Aggressive in targeting the ball.
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: They stripped the ball and that surprised the box. Defensively
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: they filled the field, often 14, 15 men in the line,
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: so they suffocated the box decision makers. And on attack
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: they worked the short side a lot, switch, and that
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: isolates the big box forward. So I think that worked
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: well for them. That allows them to use the width.
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: One area we haven't touched on they definitely need to
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: improve is their ball carrying. They had 101 less post
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: contact metres and it was very evident early on that
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: they were struggling to get headway and only on the
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: edges really did they make grounds and they were often
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: running into two big box forwards. Rene said today they've
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: got a bit of a plan around that, they're not
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: going to reveal it but that's one area and we
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: have touched on it in terms of the notable ball
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: carriers in the All Blacks pack. And I do think
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: they're still lacking a couple there.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I look at that and go, well, Simon Parker's
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: not going to solve that problem, especially if he's playing
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: in the middle as more of a lock six rather
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: than a six lock. And Tupo Vai on the edge
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: can obviously play very well. But I think they're going
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: to need more out of Adi Saviga this week. He
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: probably didn't get the go forward and the leg drive
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: going as much as he would have liked. Last week,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I think they need to maybe... I.
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: Was just going to say, it also comes back to
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: the speed of your ruck. If you can generate that
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: quick speed, if you get that go forward, it's a cycle,
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: isn't it? If the box stop you in your tracks,
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: they slow your ball, their defence is allowed to reset,
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: it's pretty challenging to just... It's impossible to steamroll. They're
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: such big humans.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so the All Blacks are going to have to
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: find a way around that because the post-contact metres were very,
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: very low last week and maybe... I'm intrigued to see
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: what Dave Rooney's got up his sleeve in terms of
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: being able to try and counter that this week. That
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: will be fascinating in and of itself. And, yeah, it
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: goes back to that ball in play. If they can
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: bring fatigue in earlier into the game, then you open
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: the door to utilising some of those bench players who
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: can get the post-contact metres, albeit late in the game,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: like Lakai and Omuwa, other players like that.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and one other aspect, I think, A bit of
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: rain about, maybe. The forecast is improving.
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: It was 60%, beautiful now, but it was 60% chance
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: of rain. I think it's now about 20% so probably
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: get a little bit of rain. The Obelix kicked once
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: more than the Springboks last week and I think that
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: is another really intriguing area. Cam Roygard was hugely influential
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: in his box kicking but I think if you can
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: use little chips to get him behind that box rush defence,
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: We saw Quinta Pyre and Geordie Barrett use their boot well.
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: So that kicking duel will be pretty pivotal as well.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: It will be indeed. Sir Khaleesi back for the Springboks.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Wearing the number six jersey. Obviously that's the open side
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: flank on South African terms. Look, he's a talismanic leader,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: isn't he? He boosts that team big time. And, you know,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: I guess coming in 1-0 down in the series, no
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: better time to reintroduced Sir Khaleesi into the mix. Originally,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Rassi had bracketed him, but he's good to go, which
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: is positive for the South Africans.
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and really leaning on that experience, the most experienced
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: Springbok team in history, possibly, probably one of the oldest
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: in history as well. You've got 39-year-old Dion Fourie on
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: the bench. I think this is a stronger box team.
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: They've significantly bolstered that bench after the box squad, the
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: bomb squad, failed to detonate because of some of those injuries.
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: But Khaleesi, yeah, it's intangible, isn't it, with him? He's
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: such a figurehead, he is inspirational, and it's almost, it's
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: not not about what he does on the field, but
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: there's few, I think, leaders like him that can have
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: that sort of impact on a team.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: A transformational leader for the country, for South Africa, and
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: what he's been able to do, and you're right, it's
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: an intangible that they bring to that forward pack, and Yeah,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: I do like the box bench this time. I think
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Hanekom is an excellent player. He'll create trouble for the
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: All Blacks. And, you know, Sasha running it, you know,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: tired All Blacks leagues potentially later in the game. They
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: talk about wanting to bring fatigue into it from an
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: All Blacks perspective, but, you know, he's got that footwork
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: that could be dangerous later on in the game.
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see Pollard play 80
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: and Sasha maybe come on.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: He can play 12.
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: Maybe they bring him on for Willemsen at fullback and
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: So I wouldn't be surprised. I think Pollard, just his goal-kicking, Russ,
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: he wants him there, doesn't he, his calm experience. So
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: interesting to see how he uses that bench. Thomas Dutoy
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: is a noted scrummager. So I think that bench is
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: significantly stronger.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Indeed. Like Change the Roof Ring as well.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: Slight quirk, isn't it? Yeah.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Nika Amashakeli out with illness.
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he might have got struck down at Kefka Priest
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: and Camps Bay.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: Look, there were eyebrows raised given we saw him out
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: for a.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: Watching sunset?
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Watching the sunset last night. It was a beautiful sunset.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: We went up to Table Mountain, as we said, and
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: then went to Camps Bay for a... spot of dinner
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: and saw Nika and Carl Dixon out for, I don't
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: know if it was dinner or a drink.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: Romantic evening.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: Got some bad seafood. Look, I can speak from experience, Elliot.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: Sickness in Cape Town is no joke.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: You were ruled out from the first test with that.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: So maybe you've been struck down by something. But Angus
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Gardner comes in. He was going to referee the third game.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Now Nika Amashikele will referee the third game instead in Soweto.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Next week, not a major change. I don't think when
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Dave Rennie was quick to play at Darwin, I asked
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: him about that today at the media conference. But it
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: is a little bit of a sidebar to the week's events,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: isn't it?
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: It is. Yeah, we're suggestions at the box. We're suggesting
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: they should have a South African referee. I think that was.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Yako Piper, one of their coaches, he could have come
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: out of retirement.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: I don't think that was ever going to fly.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: No.
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: Look, the box aren't going to be happy about that.
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: They probably haven't played a lot... Under Angus Gardiner, certainly
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: the All Blacks players will be a lot more familiar
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: with his style of refereeing. He refs in Super Rugby
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: a lot. His tendency is probably to let the game
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: flow a lot more. He'd be used to the pace
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: and the speed and tempo. I'm not saying he's going
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: to favour the All Blacks, but I think they are
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: more familiar with him.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Well, Angus Gardiner's come over and refereed MPC at points.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: And Arma Shelly is a bit of a lottery.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Can be, absolutely. I think it's something that World Rugby
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: should look at, by the way, is.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: You know, sort of a quasi-exchange program where Carl Dixon,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Matthew Carley, Nikama Shikali come down and do, you know,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: a couple of rounds of super rugby. I know they've
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: got Six Nations commitments and various other things, but they'd
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: come up and do a couple of rounds of super rugby.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Angus Gardner, Ben O'Keefe, Nick Berry go up and do
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: a couple of games in the premiership or the URC.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: I think it'd be beneficial for all rugby teams and
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: for the referees as well. Yeah, a bit of a
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: financial cost, but I think overall it would help shape
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: the world game.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: A bit better. Yeah, I like it. C-Level's having a
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: good impact on you.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: Bit of a brainwave.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We had asked you for your prediction
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: last week. I went the All Blacks by three last week.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: You did.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: And you went South Africa by three. Is that right?
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: Vibes got you there.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Vibes got me good there, yeah. Bombing by three and
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: they won by 17.
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: Well, I feel like I should tip the box again
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: because it worked last week.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: I do like just the temperament and the, I don't know,
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: vibes or whatever you want to call it, emanating from
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: the All Blacks. I think Rene never gets too high,
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: never gets too low, never seems flustered. And I think
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: that filters down to his team. And they're making all
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: the right noises about enjoying the euphoria of that win
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: and then coming straight back down to earth. really dismissed
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: anything to do with the World Rugby rankings. He didn't
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: even understand them, didn't care about them. Even dismissed the
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: fact of any talk about the series. There's a number
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: of games to go. So I think they're in a
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: great headspace. I think they could and maybe should win.
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: But I am going to tip the box just for superstition.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I won the All Blacks by three last week. I'm
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: going to go the All Blacks by four this week.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: There you go. I like it. There is a bit
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: of anomaly.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: I haven't looked into the record yet, but from memory,
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: I don't think they have a great record in Cape Town,
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: which is interesting given the historical support element here.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they haven't played here a lot either in the
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: recent times because of this.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: Lost their last test here.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, lost here in 24, and then that was their
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: first game at DHL. Obviously played the Stormers at the
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: start of this tour, and then their previous game was
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: at Newlands, and I can't quite remember when, but yeah,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: you're right, the record isn't the best for a traditional support,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: which is continuing to move, although we had a waiter
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: last night at our restaurant in Camps Bay, who was
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: an ardent All Black supporter, big fan of Jonah Lomu,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: and some of the other greats through the years, so it's,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: and yeah, asked him why, and you know, said it's Family. Family,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: it's history.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Generational.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Yep, absolutely.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: Those tours are a dime a dozen here, aren't they?
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you speak to someone about BG Williams.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: You see the fans waiting outside the hotel.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Yep. They absolutely froth it. So, SG Week, we froth it.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: That'll do us, though, for Rugby Direct. Live commentary, of course,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: on Sunday morning, 3am on Newstalk ZB. All the analysis
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: on NZ Herald.. co. nz with NAPES as well. We'll see
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: you next time on Rugby Direct. Thanks to Mark Kelly.
• 30:34
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• 30:37
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• 30:42
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• 30:48
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