Latest / Yes And Land / Lion King and Healing Trauma | Alton Fitzgerald White

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Lion King and Healing Trauma | Alton Fitzgerald White · Yes And Land

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  I grew up in public housing in Cincinnati, the
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  projects. And she said this in front of the class.
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  I remember thinking, is she talking to me? Did
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  she really say this? That little painfully shy
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  kid who was abused and teased and bullied became
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  the king. But that's one of the things I love
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  about Lion King is that we're all Scar, we're
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  all Mufasa, we're all Simba. It's all about tapping
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  into the different parts of yourself. And we
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  get to define who we are. When it happens with
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  Simba... It's something, there's a cut, there's
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  a break in your life. And there's a before the
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  event and an after. I mean, I was pure love as
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  a kid. I was naive. And no matter what happened
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  to me, I always saw the bright side. I was born
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  with an optimism. In every creature, in every
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  star, in your reflection, they live in you. Welcome
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  to Yes and Land, where we say yes to the reality
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  of yesterday and today, and we say and to the
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  possibility, growth, and imagination of tomorrow.
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  All right, welcome everybody to our next episode
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  of Yes, Ant -Land. We are very excited today.
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  We are joined by somebody who has had a storied
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  career, Alton Fitzgerald White, who played Mufasa
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  on Broadway for more than 4 ,000 performances,
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  which is just a feat in and of itself. But that's,
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  of course, not the only thing to his story. He
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  has many things to his story, which we will dive
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  into today. uh struggled with uh some some different
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  things in his childhood which we will kind of
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  go over and found his way to playing an amazing
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  role uh but also to doing a lot of other amazing
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  things and now today no longer performing as
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  mufasa on broadway but he is an author of an
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  amazing book called my pride right alton that's
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  what we got that's what it is do you have that
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  there with you hold that up my pride mastering
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  life's daily performance Which is a must read.
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  I read it. I read the whole thing and just loved
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  it. I actually consume my books on Audible. He
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  reads it himself. And as you might imagine, since
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  he played Mufasa on Broadway, has a terrific
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  voice and a terrific reading voice, which he
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  actually does talk about in the book as well,
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  which was not necessarily something you thought
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  was a great strength when you were growing up.
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  But we'll talk about that. we'll talk about that
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  right um and now he does uh public speaking and
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  presenting and does things like singing with
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  the boston pops which he was just doing last
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  week and uh so just really excited to have this
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  great conversation to learn from somebody with
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  so much life experience uh who hopefully today
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  is going to be a little bit like a mufasa for
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  us and help to impart some wisdom today ryan
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  you have forgotten me oh see that's exactly what
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  we want yeah see now i need i need to like i
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  need to cut that right and i need to like put
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  that as my ringtone or like at night when i'm
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  getting ready like have my meditation before
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  i go to bed like that's what i need right oh
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  it's amazing one of the great lines right from
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  uh lion king both the the original movie and
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  then of course the the broadway version uh which
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  is just a favorite for many people certainly
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  was a favorite for mine growing up um i was born
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  in 82 and so lion king was like the heart of
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  my youth and was just Such an important thing
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  for me that I just, I love the Lion King, like
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  so many kids in my generation. So, well, before
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  we start diving into you playing Mufasa on Broadway,
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  you know, take us back to a little bit about
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  your youth. Did you say that you were born in
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  1982? Yes, born in 82. This is the year I graduated
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  high school. My son, my child. Hey, you know,
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  once we're this age, you know, we're about the
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  same, right? It all kind of blends in once you
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  mature. It does. I always kind of say, you know,
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  once you're about 40, like 40s, 50s, like it's
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  all the same, right? It's like it blends together.
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  But, you know, when you graduated high school,
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  82, so you experienced the 80s, right, through
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  and through. Some great things from the 80s.
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  I'm a little biased. What's your opinion about
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  the greatest decade of music? What would you
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  say that is? I'm biased. I mean, 80s for me,
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  because, like, that's when I was really coming
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  to age. We had all the great dance music, feel
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  -good music, music to make you want to move.
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  And we just started to, like, you know, be, like,
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  more socially conscious music coming up. But
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  for the most part, a lot of it was the British
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  invasion. There wasn't a live instrument to be
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  found. It was all synthesizers. But it all tickled
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  your brain and made you want to move. So that's
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  one of my favorite periods. Again, I'm biased.
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  It's the 90s for me because that's when I started
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  listening to my own music. So my parents were
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  not a lot older, but a little bit older when
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  they had me. So they were more 60s and 70s, which
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  I have a great appreciation for. But they didn't
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  really transition much into the 80s. And then
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  I start listening when I'm 8, 9, 10, and it's
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  the 90s. And then suddenly you have, you know,
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  all the wonderful things that come out of the
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  90s. So for me, I'm like totally biased. I love
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  90s music. I think so much came from the 90s.
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  I'll give you an example. But I will stay. Give
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  me an example of a couple of groups that you
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  love from the 90s. Well, interestingly enough,
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  I was actually going to talk to you about this.
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  One that I loved so much was Boyz II Men. And
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  in part because of the vocal harmonies they had,
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  but also their style. Because I believe, Elton,
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  that when you were a young lad, you liked to
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  dress a little bit nicer, if I'm not mistaken.
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  I did, absolutely, yeah. You dressed for everything.
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  Everything was an occasion. Yeah, absolutely.
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  Yeah, and I was the same way. I loved their style.
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  And so when I was in junior high school, I was
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  a kid dressing in button -down shirts and slacks
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  when other kids were, you know, shorts and T
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  -shirts. And so I definitely got teased for that
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  a little bit. I was that guy in high school,
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  too, who would wear a tie and a blazer with jeans.
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  They'd be like, why are you so formal? I'm like...
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  But I just discovered GQ magazine in my mid -teens.
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  So I was like, wow, it's a chance to be individual.
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  Because as men, we don't have that many options.
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  You know, a haircut, mustache, no face, hairless.
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  Clothes really, really help to kind of your personality.
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  And I see that it's hung over. Because, dude,
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  every time I've met you, you've been sharply
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  addressed. So good for you. I appreciate that.
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  I have always enjoyed dressing up. There's just
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  something about dressing up that makes me feel
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  a little bit sharper. It feels a little bit more
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  like, okay, I'm professional. I can do this.
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  Kind of like empowers me, so to speak. And people
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  tease me, but I actually like wearing a suit.
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  I think it's fun. I think it's comfortable. I
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  tell when I mentor kids who are about auditioning,
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  because auditioning is tough. You can have all
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  the time in the world, but not everybody auditions.
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  I always tell kids. Wear whatever makes you feel
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  like a million bucks going into that movie. It's
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  how you feel is the most important thing, right?
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  Make sure it's appropriate for the occasion.
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  But if it makes you feel like a million bucks,
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  that's what you wear. Because confidence is key,
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  right? Yeah, I think that's great advice. And
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  I think that advice applies as well for somebody
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  going into an interview, right? You know, you
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  do need to understand what that particular job
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  should look like as far as that goes. But you
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  do want to be comfortable because a lot of times
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  people will get in their head about it. You know,
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  interestingly enough, I actually I learned that
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  when I was trying to apply for my first job.
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  My brother, who's a year and a half older than
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  I, he and I were up for the same job. It was
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  as we call a sweeper at an elementary school.
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  Right. So you have the gender and then, you know,
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  they hire these teenage kids to be sweepers.
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  And so we both went in for interview. I dressed
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  in a shirt and tie. He dressed in just casual
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  wear. And afterwards, the feedback was they hired
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  him because that was more of what they were looking
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  for. And I was a little bit too formal. And I
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  was like, well, I guess I didn't understand the
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  assignment. Yeah, yeah, gotcha. Yeah, gotcha,
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  gotcha, gotcha. But still, you did your thing.
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  You know, it's about making a choice. I did,
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  you know, I stayed true to who I was. Yeah, yeah.
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  Yep. And then, you know, a few months later,
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  I applied for a different sweeper job. That person's
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  personality probably matched mine better because
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  then I got that job and I dressed the same way.
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  So it was great. It all came around. So let's
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  take us back to you growing up in Cincinnati.
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  And, you know, take us just through a little
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  bit of that. I mean, there's certainly a lot.
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  And anybody who's listening, you need to, like,
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  read the entire book because there's so much
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  more about understanding about where Alton came
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  from and what things, you know, really shaped
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  who he is. But give us a little bit of a snippet
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  of what life was like for you growing up initially
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  and some of the challenges you faced. I grew
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  up in public housing in Cincinnati, the projects.
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  Youngest of seven kids. the only boy in the household.
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  So myself and my father were the only men in
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  the house, and it was really challenging being
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  raised by women. I mean, it served me later in
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  my life, but as a kid, you know, I was teased
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  about it. You know, when I would get into a fight,
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  as all kids do, they go get their big brother
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  to defend them, and I went to get a sister. So
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  I was teased about that as well. And as a result,
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  you know, I was raised to be a very polite kid.
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  very mannerable kid, which again served me later.
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  But it was also a little bit effeminate because
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  I had such a heavy female influence, which also
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  served me because girls always liked me. Teachers
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  always loved me because I had that, I had kind
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  of a built -in strength, but I had a nice openness
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  about myself that was attractive to people. But
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  again, I was teased by the boys about that. because
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  the girls were just naturally attracted to me.
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  So there was a lot of stuff going on. My father,
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  unfortunately, suffered from alcoholism. So the
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  only other person in my house who looked like
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  me was an alcoholic. And I often felt like I
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  was competing with the alcohol for his attention,
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  and the alcohol would win. So I really kind of
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  felt like I was on my own. I'm really grateful
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  that I was attracted to order, because home was
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  so chaotic. You know, with an alcoholic parent,
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  when you open the door, you don't know what you're
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  going to get. Are they going to be sober? And
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  when my father was sober, he was glued to the
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  TV. And, you know, we all tiptoed around thinking
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  that that would affect his drinking. And then
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  sometimes you come home, he's thinking, okay,
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  he's probably watching TV and he would be on
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  a bender. And it's like, so dealing with that
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  kind of, those kinds of inconsistencies made
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  school really important to me, really attractive.
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  I loved. the order i love showing up on time
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  i loved bringing my assignment i love the validation
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  that i got from teachers doing a good job and
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  i'm so grateful that somehow i was attracted
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  to that kind of validation as opposed to being
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  like the other kids because i could never be
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  like the other kids i knew i was different i
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  knew that i was i was sensitive i knew that i
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  was an artist even before i had the words to
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  describe it and those are all things i was teased
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  about that again later served me and thank goodness
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  teachers saw and helped to bring bring out of
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  me what do you think the difference was for you
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  in in that because what we see i think sometimes
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  unfortunately happen in those situations because
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  we we all have this innate sense and need to
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  belong sense of belonging is one of the core
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  human needs so sometimes what will happen is
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  kids we just want to be a part of it we want
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  to be accepted this is a very important time
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  And I think sometimes what happens is then that's
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  why certain kids will get involved in the wrong
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  things, like games. For you, what was that difference
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  of that you found your sense of belonging with,
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  you know, getting the praise from the teachers
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  and doing great work there and that kind of stuff,
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  as opposed to being influenced for doing things
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  that would have been more negative, that would
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  have gotten you into trouble? What do you think
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  was kind of the key for you? I really feel like
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  it's sort of like my destiny, to be totally honest,
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  right? Because I tried to be. a bad kid. I tried
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  to do stuff and I would always get caught. And
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  I realized earlier that other kids can do that
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  stuff. Other boys can be bad and do this and
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  do that. I couldn't get away with it. My higher
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  power was like, nope, this is not your path.
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  So I was rejected in those ways. And again, looking
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  back, I'm so grateful. I was pulled to like,
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  because as a kid wanting to belong and looking
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  for validation anywhere you can get it, I wasn't
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  really getting it from home. But my father was
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  doing this thing. My mother, who is my, one of
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  my soulmates, was overwhelmed. with having all
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  the kids and my father. And I will say that in
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  spite of my father's alcoholism, there was tremendous
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  love in the household. So I never not felt loved.
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  But as a little boy, a little black boy in particular,
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  I needed validation. And when I got from the
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  teachers, I was like, who cares? I'm getting
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  this something that I need that I don't even
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  have words for yet. And that propelled me to
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  be a fantastic student throughout my entire...
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  school years. So I think part of it was just
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  my destiny. Because I tried. I tried to be a
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  bad kid because I wanted to be a part of a group,
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  wanted to be accepted, but I was always isolated
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  and like, okay. And that's when my fantasies
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  and my dreams really, really took over. You know?
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  And you were pulled and called to the stuff that
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  you ultimately ended up doing, right? Because
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  Memory Serves, one of the things you talked about
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  was finding kind of private times and even a
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  closet to sing. And you may, and if Memory Serves
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  too, you may have even learned some dances. I
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  don't know if it was from Michael Jackson. But
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  yeah, tell us about that. So, you know, in your,
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  you know, being called to something or kind of
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  where your destiny was taking you. Talk us through
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  how that started to evolve with you feeling drawn
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  to the arts and the singing and dancing. Well,
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  I'm grateful that as a family, we would watch
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  television. We listened to the radio together.
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  When we all cleaned the house, we had the radio
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  blasting. It was a station that played all kinds
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  of music. Pop, rock, jazz, country. Of course,
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  the Motown sound. Everything, which influences
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  my singing to this day. There was that. We also
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  watched TV. And TV was like my best friend. when
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  i didn't have friends to play with i would watch
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  my favorite shows gilligan's island um a whole
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  all day after school stuff but at night we would
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  watch variety shows which really sort of saved
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  my life because i got to see my favorite performers
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  and then i could see them be interviewed after
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  they performed and see that they spoke so well
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  that they were intelligent they were not just
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  performers they were they seemed to be well -rounded
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  people and i thought i want to be like that so
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  they became my first role model And I don't know
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  any young Black boy during the 60s who didn't
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  want to be Michael Jackson or one of the Jackson
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  5. So we would watch, say we watched the Ed Sullivan
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  show, and the Jackson 5 would be on there, and
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  I could pick up choreography really easily because
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  I was so hungry for it. And I would go to the
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  storage closet, which was the only place I had
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  to myself, and I'd put on these big concerts
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  and pretend I was Michael Jackson and my father
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  cleaned buildings for a living. This big thing
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  called a buffer. The big circular thing with
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  the smaller circle in the middle. It's the perfect
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  platform. Top of that was my stage. I would take
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  the cord and that was my microphone. And I would
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  step down and sing to the girls in the audience
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  all in silence. I didn't know that I could sing.
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  When I did start to sing, it wasn't because I
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  knew I sounded good. I love the sensation of
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  singing. I love how it made me feel. So what
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  started off as a fantasy. eventually became what
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  I was doing for a living. So again, I'm grateful
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  that instead of going to fighting against the
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  grain and going, no, I'm going to be accepted
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  by the bad kids because I so desperately want
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  to be a part of them, I'm going to honor my body,
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  honor my mind, and take that energy elsewhere.
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  And that's where TV and radio and the arts really
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  came into play and really helped to save me.
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  Yeah. What was the inflection point for you or
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  kind of the experience or experiences that helped
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  bring that to life? So you're starting to feel
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  this and you're doing it, but you're doing it
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  in silence and you're not actually out loud.
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  When did that finally that that flip that switch
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  turn on where it's like, oh, I actually can do
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  this. I actually can sing. I actually could perform.
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  Oh, man, I joined the church choir and I was
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  so terrified of being in front of anybody. I
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  mean, really, I. When I talk about it, I feel
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  those feelings again of like, oh, my God, I can't
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  imagine ever sharing this with anybody because
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  it was my secret. But I used to usher it at my
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  church, and I would kind of scope the choir out
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  and see if it was safe, and then I found out
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  that they would take anybody. We didn't have
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  to audition. I thought, oh, wow, I can finally
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  sing with other people. So I joined the choir,
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  and after I joined, they were like, well, you
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  know, at some point, everybody has to do a solo.
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  I was like, I'll worry about that later. They
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  go around the whole choir. They get to me, and
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  I'm like, I'll pass. I'm good. They come back
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  around again. They're like, Alton, you have to
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  do this. And I was like, I can't. They were like,
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  you have to. And I mean, the choir teacher was
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  so patient with me. I mean, I refused to sing
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  in front of anybody. I would wait till everybody
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  left and sing with just her. Eventually, it went
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  from a whisper to singing louder and singing
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  louder. She goes, now you got to sing with the
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  choir because I sang the lead and they backed
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  me up. And I remember that day came. And at this
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  point, everybody in the choir is like, really,
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  dude? Because nobody can understand how you feel.
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  But they were like, what's the big deal? It was
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  a huge deal to me. Because at that point, I was
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  being teased and bullied about so many things
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  in my young life. I thought, if my secret gets
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  out and I'm... teased about this, I don't know
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  what I'll do. I might break, you know? And I
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  remember, you know, finally kind of whispering
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  through it, and they were like, really? We waited
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  for this? And I was like, okay. But then came
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  the Sunday morning. I remember, like, not sleeping
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  the night before, thinking, how am I going to
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  listen to all these people? I don't know. I kind
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  of trust the choir at this point. And I got up
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  there, and they called my name, and I remember
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  just looking at the ceiling, and, you know, kind
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  of, like, sort of closing my eyes. doing the
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  best I could. And it was over. There were some
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  amens. There were some pause. And a woman that
• 18:48
  I really trusted who led the children ushers
• 18:51
  came up to me with this look on her face, Ryan.
• 18:54
  Like, she was like, out and wild. I was like,
• 18:57
  what? Did I not do well? She was like, your voice.
• 19:01
  The quality of your voice. I didn't know what
• 19:03
  she was talking about, but she was like, you've
• 19:05
  got something special. I was like, really? And
• 19:08
  that was what I needed. Like, one person that
• 19:10
  I trusted. And the look on her face, the way
• 19:14
  she responded to my voice made me go, wow, like
• 19:17
  this thing I love might actually love me as well.
• 19:21
  And then the journey became, how do I get out
• 19:24
  of the way of it? How do I not go over my fear?
• 19:27
  There's no going over. How do I work through
• 19:29
  this fear and get to the other side and find
• 19:32
  the gift that this is? And it's just a practice,
• 19:35
  you know, humming around the house, humming around
• 19:39
  friends and going, okay, I got to release the
• 19:41
  shame. And eventually, the next time I did a
• 19:45
  solo, I was ready. And then at that point, I
• 19:48
  was in junior high. And they always needed, you
• 19:51
  know, you do a spring festival and a winter festival.
• 19:53
  You know, the choir would do some stuff. And
• 19:55
  it was always female solo and male solo. And
• 19:58
  the male soloist was a year older than me. So
• 20:01
  in my last year of junior high, they needed a
• 20:03
  guy. And I was like, I think I might be able
• 20:05
  to do this. So I auditioned. But I kind of went
• 20:08
  through the same process because now I'm with
• 20:10
  junior high. It's a whole other thing. I'm like.
• 20:12
  I went through the whole thing of, like, you
• 20:13
  know, whispering in her ear and, like, waiting
• 20:14
  until the class dismissed and having to sing
• 20:18
  in front of the whole class. And then the night
• 20:21
  came, and I was like, okay, do it. It's now or
• 20:23
  never. And then it was on from there. So, I mean,
• 20:28
  I just love this journey that you had. And there's
• 20:31
  a couple of things that I heard in there that
• 20:32
  I think are really impactful. And one of those
• 20:34
  is I think the role of, you know, maybe it's
• 20:38
  a mentor. Maybe it's just, you know, somebody
• 20:40
  that you do have some level of trust with that
• 20:41
  shows kindness and encouragement. Yes, absolutely.
• 20:44
  And how impactful that can be. And when you think
• 20:47
  about that. Are there any other moments you think
• 20:51
  about where the care and kind of what I would
• 20:54
  call deep kindness that somebody showed you help
• 20:56
  you feel empowered to kind of find that destiny
• 21:00
  of yours? Oh, God, in so many ways. I mean, really,
• 21:02
  teachers. Teachers are my hero. I mean, really,
• 21:05
  teachers really. I mean, there's certain things
• 21:07
  that I did on my own. I had to tap into my courage
• 21:10
  and go forth. But I had. teachers to guide me,
• 21:14
  teachers to point me out and go, no, you sit
• 21:16
  over here. You're different than the other kids,
• 21:18
  which let me know that I was smarter than I realized.
• 21:23
  And even in terms of talent, I would audition
• 21:26
  for some things and then somebody would go, no,
• 21:29
  no, no. I remember that because I really wanted
• 21:30
  to be a dancer. I love movement. And I would
• 21:33
  go to my dance calls and they'd hear me sing
• 21:35
  and go, no, no, you're over here with the singers.
• 21:38
  You can do both, but not many people can do both
• 21:42
  well. So these were all people who became mentors
• 21:45
  and validation. Somebody who could see things
• 21:48
  in me that I couldn't see myself. That's very,
• 21:51
  very important for anyone to have, for everyone
• 21:54
  to have someone who sees the potential that they
• 21:56
  can't quite see themselves. Yeah, for sure. You
• 22:00
  know, and when you're kind of going through these
• 22:01
  experiences growing up where you did in Cincinnati
• 22:04
  and being bullied, what would you, when you think
• 22:07
  back on that, what do you think is like the hardest?
• 22:10
  Trial that you faced during that time. What was
• 22:13
  the most difficult thing that you had to overcome?
• 22:16
  Okay, are we going to go there? Let's let's go
• 22:20
  there. Let's go there. We want to get deep. We
• 22:22
  want to get a lot of the hardest thing was dealing
• 22:24
  with sexual abuse as a kid. Was being taken advantage
• 22:28
  of because I was such a. I mean, I was pure love
• 22:33
  as a kid. I was naive. And no matter what happened
• 22:37
  to me, I always saw the bright side. I was born
• 22:39
  with an optimism that as an adult, I've learned
• 22:43
  to kind of like balance with realism, but still
• 22:46
  keep my positive attitude. That was tough when
• 22:51
  those things happened and I couldn't tell anyone
• 22:53
  because that made me become an adult faster than
• 22:57
  I needed to. And to have that introduced to me.
• 23:00
  And to not be able to have my own journey with
• 23:03
  that and have it forced upon me, you know, was
• 23:06
  not a cool thing. And then dealing with the secret
• 23:08
  of not being able to tell anyone. And also knowing
• 23:10
  that if I told any adult that, even as a kid,
• 23:14
  before I had the words to describe things, I
• 23:17
  knew that the ripple effect would be amazing
• 23:21
  in a not the best way. So I kept it to myself.
• 23:25
  And again, I believe that I was able to channel
• 23:29
  that into my heart. into my passion um and it's
• 23:32
  something as actors as creative people we get
• 23:34
  to do we get to like work out our stuff and share
• 23:37
  at the same time if we choose to perceive it
• 23:39
  that way yeah well i mean when i when i asked
• 23:43
  that question i i didn't have any idea that was
• 23:46
  actually the case and i'm so first off i'm so
• 23:48
  sorry um that that was something you had to experience
• 23:51
  um and um you know sorry i'm almost have to take
• 23:57
  a moment i just that is such a Oh, it's just
• 24:01
  such a tough thing for somebody to have to experience
• 24:04
  and that you had to go through. What got you
• 24:07
  through that? Faith. You know, a faith that I
• 24:16
  feel like I was just kind of born with. I really
• 24:19
  feel like I was born with a positive attitude.
• 24:22
  And even as an adult, you know, through the help
• 24:25
  of therapy and meditation, I've been able to
• 24:27
  forgive those people because I'm thinking, You
• 24:29
  know, I had this done to me by other kids as
• 24:32
  well as adults. It's like somebody did it to
• 24:35
  them. You know, and it's like so that I'm grateful
• 24:41
  that I was able to work through my stuff and
• 24:43
  then get to the other side of the anger and resentment
• 24:46
  and find compassion. You know, forgiveness came
• 24:51
  at the end of that and then compassion, which
• 24:53
  was like a gift that I didn't expect to go. Oh,
• 24:56
  wow. It didn't do that to me because. who I am.
• 24:59
  They did it because of who they are. And then
• 25:03
  beyond that was like, I wonder if someone did
• 25:05
  that to them. Which is like real forgiveness.
• 25:10
  Yeah. And I'm the kind of person who wants to
• 25:13
  squeeze as much out of life as I possibly can.
• 25:16
  I'm one of those who if there's a problem comes
• 25:17
  up, I'm going to deal with it and I want to get
• 25:19
  back to the good times ASAP. Well, I mean, I
• 25:24
  thank you for your courage to share that, your
• 25:27
  vulnerability in sharing that. You know, it's
• 25:30
  my hope. Whenever on this podcast we talk to
• 25:32
  people who've gone through really hard things,
• 25:34
  it's my hope that somebody that's listening,
• 25:37
  that's going through a hard season, can receive
• 25:40
  kind of that strength from somebody else who's
• 25:42
  gone through it and know that there's light at
• 25:45
  the end of that really dark tunnel. Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:47
  I mean, if nothing else. That little painfully
• 25:50
  shy kid who was abused and teased and bullied
• 25:53
  became the king. You know, and that's one of
• 25:58
  the things I love about Lion King is that, you
• 26:00
  know, we're all Scar, we're all Mufasa, we're
• 26:03
  all Simba. It's all about having to deal with
• 26:05
  different parts of yourself. And we get to define
• 26:08
  who we are. Things happen to us, but we get the
• 26:11
  ultimate decision. Am I going to stay stuck in
• 26:13
  this trauma or am I going to go through it? get
• 26:17
  to the other side and see what what life is beyond
• 26:19
  it that's a choice that we all get to make if
• 26:22
  we choose to do so yeah you know it it kind of
• 26:27
  takes me to and i hope that this isn't um in
• 26:30
  any way um insensitive to that experience that
• 26:34
  you just had because i don't want to compare
• 26:36
  anything to it because nothing can compare to
• 26:37
  it but if we're taking lessons from the lion
• 26:40
  king what it reminds me of is kind of where i
• 26:44
  was actually going to go next which is the experiences
• 26:47
  of Simba, right? Where, you know, at the beginning
• 26:49
  of the show, I mean, Simba's this free loving
• 26:51
  kid who just can't wait to be king, you know,
• 26:54
  and have a great time with his buddies. And he's,
• 26:57
  you know, goofing off in this elephant graveyard
• 27:00
  and all these things. And then his dad dies and
• 27:04
  he believes it's his fault. Even though it wasn't.
• 27:08
  Of course, we all know the story, right? It was
• 27:09
  Scar. It wasn't his fault at all, but he believes
• 27:11
  it was. And Scar has tricked him, has manipulated
• 27:15
  him to think in it. And then Scar says, run away,
• 27:18
  Simba. Run away and never return. And I wonder,
• 27:23
  you know, is that sometimes what we experience
• 27:25
  when we have shame and guilt and it's not actually
• 27:28
  our fault? And yet we do and we feel like we
• 27:31
  have to run away. Was there any part of that
• 27:33
  that you experienced in that difficult time?
• 27:40
  The only running away I did was, I mean, I did
• 27:43
  become, like my mother talks about, she remembers,
• 27:46
  you know, like me going from being happy -go
• 27:48
  -lucky and then suddenly I was very sad. When
• 27:50
  I look at pictures of me as a kid, at a certain
• 27:53
  point, I'm not smiling. I do look kind of like
• 27:56
  detached because I was keeping a secret. I couldn't
• 28:00
  be fully who I was. And it's sort of like when
• 28:02
  it happens with Simba, suddenly there's a cut,
• 28:06
  there's a break in your life. Yes. And there's
• 28:09
  a before the event and an after. And we all have
• 28:14
  those definite moments because we've all experienced
• 28:15
  trauma. We all have that moment when it's like,
• 28:18
  oh, I am no longer the child I used to be, the
• 28:22
  teenager I used to be, the adult I used to be
• 28:24
  because of this kind of trauma. But I feel like,
• 28:28
  and I only speak for myself, that life is always
• 28:31
  trying to push me toward light. So there are
• 28:35
  different signs that I receive over the years
• 28:38
  of like, now might be a time to deal with that.
• 28:40
  Now might be a time to have an even brighter
• 28:44
  life. I know things are great right now, but
• 28:46
  they could actually be better if you go back
• 28:48
  and deal with your personal stuff. Because material
• 28:50
  things, anything outside of us, that's one thing.
• 28:53
  And I think it's really easy to get defined by
• 28:57
  the things outside of us. But the real beauty,
• 29:00
  the real wealth is inner peace. and inner knowledge
• 29:04
  so i feel like life is always trying to get us
• 29:06
  to go okay this is great you've done all of this
• 29:08
  you've got this blah blah but like how are you
• 29:10
  and that's something that i've always wanted
• 29:14
  like great yeah well it actually happened i never
• 29:17
  forget when when i was doing the saigon my first
• 29:20
  broadway show understudying hinton battle the
• 29:22
  great hinton battle um who won his third tony
• 29:26
  award playing john in the saigon i was his understudy
• 29:28
  after he won the tony uh you do eight shows a
• 29:32
  week on broadway After he won the Tony, he went
• 29:34
  down to doing six, and they gave me two of his
• 29:36
  shows. He left after the first year, and then
• 29:38
  I took over the role. And I remember thinking,
• 29:40
  okay, great. Now things are going to finally
• 29:42
  be great. Because at that point, I was kind of
• 29:45
  running, you know, using the arts, using success
• 29:48
  as sort of like a pill to deal with my past.
• 29:52
  I never forget the day after I had breakfast
• 29:54
  with a group of friends to kind of celebrate.
• 29:57
  You take them over the role, and I was like,
• 29:59
  you know, like, what's wrong with you? I was
• 30:00
  like, I don't. I understand. They're like, what's
• 30:02
  up? I said, when are things going to finally
• 30:04
  be okay? I thought that once, you know, getting
• 30:07
  this incredible Broadway show, I thought that
• 30:10
  would do it. Getting two shows a week of Hinton's,
• 30:13
  I thought it would do it. Now I'm taking over
• 30:14
  the role. What is it going to take? That's when
• 30:16
  her friend said, you might want to think about
• 30:18
  therapy. And I thought, okay. And that's when
• 30:21
  I really started to go, okay. It's not about
• 30:24
  what my life looks like. It's about how I feel.
• 30:28
  The real wealth is knowing yourself. So I feel
• 30:33
  like that's a call that we all get. And the more
• 30:36
  successful you become, in some ways, the easier
• 30:40
  it is to use them as distractions, to pull away
• 30:44
  from yourself, to be defied by those. But I want
• 30:47
  both. I want the success, but I also want to
• 30:50
  be present for it. I don't want to be using this
• 30:52
  as an excuse for that. I want to go, no, I'm
• 30:54
  present so I can enjoy the success. I can enjoy
• 30:57
  this trip. I can enjoy this concert and not be
• 31:01
  running away from anything. And I think so many
• 31:05
  times in our culture, we see like it is some
• 31:10
  destination that we're going for and that's going
• 31:11
  to be what brings it. And I think to some degree,
• 31:14
  it's sports that does it, right? And I love sports.
• 31:16
  I enjoy sports really, but it's... You got to
• 31:19
  win the championship. And when you win the championship,
• 31:20
  it is the most elation you could ever have. And
• 31:22
  so that's what you think of, like, oh, it's about
• 31:24
  the championship. And in life, it's just not,
• 31:27
  right? In life, it's what are we doing along
• 31:29
  the path to grow, to be who we really are, right?
• 31:32
  To find our destiny like you did, to find what
• 31:35
  brings that joy to us during the process, in
• 31:39
  the process of becoming, not just the end goal.
• 31:42
  Because there is no there. I mean, I'm in New
• 31:44
  York City, right? The next one. The city was
• 31:46
  on fire that weekend. Oh, my God. And it's like,
• 31:49
  then people go back to their regular lives because
• 31:51
  the celebrations die down and you're left with
• 31:55
  you. We are the constant in our lives. You know,
• 31:59
  things come and go, championships, but, like,
• 32:01
  we are the 24 -7 with ourselves. And that's the
• 32:07
  ultimate. That's the ultimate. Yeah. absolutely
• 32:11
  and you know one of the things going back to
• 32:12
  kind of your role in this saigon in in your book
• 32:15
  one of the things you mentioned was when that
• 32:17
  kind of happened you had some people i believe
• 32:21
  this was the story you had some people some friends
• 32:23
  that maybe during the celebration were a little
• 32:25
  bit negative and kind of warning you like yeah
• 32:27
  you know watch your back or hey you know it's
• 32:31
  gonna be coming for you now and and i think at
• 32:33
  that time you you may have had a mentor who couldn't
• 32:36
  give you the advice of like don't listen to the
• 32:37
  projections of others because that's where that
• 32:41
  negativity comes from yeah that's a huge thing
• 32:43
  that i share with all of my friends the young
• 32:47
  kids that i'm kind of mentoring and my adult
• 32:50
  friends like do not allow yourself to have other
• 32:53
  people's issues projected onto you and it's really
• 32:57
  tricky with artists because we're naturally sensitive
• 32:59
  um and we're always seeking some kind of validation
• 33:03
  as part of the job it's part of like did you
• 33:05
  like it how did i sound would you you know that
• 33:07
  whole thing Which, again, is why I think learning
• 33:10
  to validate yourself is the ultimate, because
• 33:12
  then when somebody compliments you, you can just
• 33:14
  go, thank you. Not with anything. But yeah, at
• 33:18
  this party, I was moving from Chicago to New
• 33:21
  York City to start rehearsals for Miss Saigon,
• 33:25
  the original company, which was already hit before
• 33:27
  it opened. There was a lot of controversy surrounding
• 33:29
  it with the casting, so it drove the box office
• 33:32
  to a $10 million advance, which in 1991 was huge
• 33:36
  and broke all kinds of records. I'm at my party,
• 33:39
  and some friends, these weren't my friends, clearly
• 33:43
  some of my friends brought some guests, and they
• 33:46
  were like, well, you know, just be careful in
• 33:47
  New York, you know, watch out for this, watch
• 33:49
  out for that, watch out for this, watch out for
• 33:51
  that. I remember, like, someone, my mentor was
• 33:54
  at the party, he was like, what's wrong with
• 33:55
  you? I was like, you know, I'm excited, like,
• 33:58
  man, I keep, people keep telling me, like, to
• 34:00
  be scared and, you know, not to wear this because
• 34:02
  somebody will snatch the gold chain off your
• 34:04
  neck, and he was like, Alton? You're not that
• 34:07
  kind of a person. You're a positive person. You're
• 34:10
  a positive thinker. You look for the positive
• 34:12
  things in life. At the same time, you're smart.
• 34:14
  That will not be your experience. So don't take
• 34:17
  that on. And that was just what I needed to hear.
• 34:19
  Like, oh, yeah, I'm not like them. This is their
• 34:23
  own stuff. But up until then, I was really like,
• 34:28
  am I going to go to New York, like, more terrified
• 34:30
  than excited? But again, in terms of mentoring,
• 34:33
  your question earlier. Having validation when
• 34:37
  you trust is priceless. It changed everything
• 34:40
  for me. Yeah. How do you differentiate just for
• 34:44
  you in your life? And maybe this would be advice
• 34:46
  that we're giving to somebody else. How would
• 34:47
  you differentiate between... those who are giving
• 34:50
  you advice that's helpful, right? Because sometimes
• 34:54
  it's helpful to be aware of certain things that
• 34:55
  happen and the stuff that's just negativity that's
• 34:59
  their own projections on you that you shouldn't
• 35:02
  listen to. How do you differentiate between those
• 35:03
  things? Always consider the source. Who's saying
• 35:08
  this? Because when I was younger, somebody would
• 35:11
  say these kind of things to me and I'd get all
• 35:14
  worked up and go, I don't respect this person.
• 35:17
  I don't even know this person. But it triggers
• 35:20
  something in me, but then I go, oh, wait a minute.
• 35:24
  They're trying to project their things onto me,
• 35:26
  and I have a choice to accept it or not. I don't
• 35:28
  accept it. So now, and it takes practice, but
• 35:31
  now I've practiced so much in my life that my
• 35:34
  instincts kick in and I go, oh, I know what this
• 35:36
  is. I know how to excuse myself. Like, I'm not
• 35:40
  going to be an audience for things that you need
• 35:42
  to work on on your own. And I'm not your friend.
• 35:46
  to, to, for you to dump those things on. So I've
• 35:48
  learned to find a nice tactful way to go, oh,
• 35:50
  no, to protect my energy, to set boundaries around
• 35:53
  my positivity. Yeah, I love that. I love that.
• 35:57
  You know, one of the things, too, talking about
• 35:59
  your positivity, one of the things I was struck
• 36:00
  in, in your book was, I think there was a time,
• 36:04
  and I don't remember if it was in New York or
• 36:05
  somewhere else, but that you in essence were
• 36:08
  were robbed or had your your wallet and stuff
• 36:11
  stolen like three times in this really short
• 36:13
  period of time right can you share that with
• 36:16
  us dude it was like my first time in chicago
• 36:18
  at on an agent who wanted me i was doing a tour
• 36:22
  of dream girls and he we were playing in new
• 36:25
  haven which is not far from new york and um the
• 36:29
  female lead the show her agent was she was from
• 36:31
  new york and her agent came up to see us and
• 36:33
  was like hey i think you're talented i would
• 36:35
  love to represent you. And I said, I'm not moving
• 36:37
  to New York without a job. Chicago is a great
• 36:40
  theater town. Whether you're working or not,
• 36:42
  it's still the Midwest, so it's still affordable.
• 36:44
  And it was great regional theater happening there.
• 36:47
  And he said, I said, but if you submit me for
• 36:49
  things, I will come to New York to audition.
• 36:52
  So the first time I took the Greyhound and stopped
• 36:55
  in Cleveland where one of my sisters lived at
• 36:57
  the time. And she brought me a meal and I'm like,
• 37:01
  I got to watch the time. I can't miss this bus.
• 37:03
  And she's talking and talking and talking. And
• 37:04
  we got. Wrapped up, next thing I know, I missed
• 37:07
  the bus. So all of my friends were on the bus.
• 37:10
  So I wanted to join the audition in the clothes
• 37:12
  I had. Second time, I took the train. I was sleeping
• 37:17
  and somebody stole my bag. So for Miss Saigon,
• 37:21
  I thought, I'm going to scrape some money together
• 37:23
  and I'm going to fly. I'm not taking any chances.
• 37:27
  And it's really kind of magical because I was
• 37:30
  doing a show in... And I was in the ensemble
• 37:33
  of a show in Chicago at the time, way out in
• 37:35
  the burbs. And we had two days, Monday and Tuesday.
• 37:39
  So my audition was Monday afternoon. I flew in
• 37:41
  Monday morning, went to the audition that afternoon.
• 37:45
  And they said, hey, your agent said that you're
• 37:49
  supposed to be flying back to Chicago tonight,
• 37:51
  but we want you to come to the dance call. Can
• 37:53
  you change your plans? I was like, absolutely.
• 37:55
  So I got on the phone, changed my flight, went
• 37:59
  to the dance call that evening. and then flew
• 38:02
  back to Chicago. And it was kind of wild because
• 38:07
  because of the controversy with Miss Saigon,
• 38:09
  they were threatening to cancel it because the
• 38:11
  actors' union didn't like certain parts of it.
• 38:14
  And this all drove the box office up. And I remember,
• 38:18
  again, another projection. And one of the guys
• 38:21
  I met at the dance call was like, because I'm
• 38:23
  excited, like, oh, my God, we made it down because
• 38:26
  it went from 50 guys to 20. And I was like, man,
• 38:29
  this is so exciting. He's like, yeah, well, don't
• 38:31
  get too excited. This is my fourth dance call,
• 38:34
  and there's no guarantee that it's even going
• 38:36
  to happen. And I was like, wonk, wonk, wonk.
• 38:39
  I was like, oh, well. So I came back to Chicago
• 38:41
  like, okay, well, who knows if it's even going
• 38:43
  to happen. And I just kind of let it go, which
• 38:46
  is hard to do. And then that same night, I got
• 38:49
  the call, and I booked it, and I will be understudying
• 38:52
  one of my heroes into battle. And looking back
• 38:55
  on it, I see... They were always tested, right?
• 38:59
  So that first time when my stuff was stolen,
• 39:01
  am I still passionate? Do I still want to do
• 39:04
  this? Am I willing to try this again? Okay, let
• 39:07
  me try the train this time. Happened with the
• 39:09
  train. Okay, I get another call. Hmm. Is this
• 39:14
  going to stop me? No, I want this. And this is
• 39:16
  just what I have to do to get it done. I flew.
• 39:19
  So when the reward came, I was able to go, thank
• 39:23
  goodness I stayed present for myself. For my
• 39:27
  passion. I passed the test. And the result was
• 39:31
  beyond my wildest dream. I mean, going from the
• 39:34
  ensemble in the theater in the suburbs of Chicago
• 39:37
  to suddenly I'm going to be understudying my
• 39:40
  hero in the biggest Broadway show at the time.
• 39:44
  Those kind of leaves can only happen if you keep
• 39:46
  showing up for yourself. And have boundaries
• 39:49
  around other people's opinions. Yeah. And then
• 39:53
  when those opportunities do come, That you've
• 39:55
  prepared yourself. Exactly. That you can take
• 39:57
  advantage of. Absolutely. Because sometimes,
• 40:00
  you know, sometimes we miss those because we're
• 40:02
  just, we're not prepared. We're distracted. We
• 40:04
  let other people's negativity bog us down. And
• 40:07
  then suddenly this great opportunity passes us
• 40:09
  by and we don't even realize it. And also, whatever
• 40:11
  your passion is, nobody's going to understand
• 40:13
  it but you. You can explain it to the person
• 40:15
  you love the most, but it's for you. It's specifically
• 40:19
  for you. So I would say, you know, I learned
• 40:21
  early. Instead of trying to prove it to you,
• 40:23
  let me just show you. I'm not going to show you
• 40:26
  because of you. I'm going to show you because
• 40:28
  of me. Before we jump back in, can I ask you
• 40:32
  a quick favor? If you're enjoying the journey
• 40:34
  so far, will you like, rate, and subscribe to
• 40:38
  our show? It helps us reach more people like
• 40:40
  you. We can design and create and build the most
• 40:44
  wonderful place in the world, but it takes people
• 40:47
  to make the dream a reality. One of the things
• 40:51
  that you said in your book is that passion has
• 40:55
  to be harnessed correctly um or it could lead
• 40:58
  to burnout yeah and so when we think about that
• 41:01
  you know obviously we started out this this this
• 41:04
  podcast and one of the things that you're maybe
• 41:06
  most famous for is performing more than 4 000
• 41:08
  times as mufasa which is just so you know exactly
• 41:13
  the number i love this like it's so many and
• 41:15
  so you know one of the things that I was thinking
• 41:18
  about when it comes to this is some work by Dr.
• 41:21
  Angela Duckworth. She wrote a book called Grit,
• 41:23
  which I just love. She talked about the difference
• 41:26
  between high performers or high achievers, and
• 41:28
  she categorizes it as those that have grit, which
• 41:30
  is the power of passion plus perseverance. And
• 41:32
  so I think about this idea of like passion, but
• 41:35
  it could lead to burnout. One of the things she
• 41:37
  said is enthusiasm is common. Endurance is rare.
• 41:42
  So for you, like, take us through, like, first
• 41:44
  off, how did you get to that point where You
• 41:47
  were in the position to be able to get that role
• 41:49
  as the king, as Mufasa. Then also that you didn't
• 41:52
  get burned out with 4 ,308. Is that what we said?
• 41:56
  Yeah. My goodness. Because burnout could come
• 41:59
  so easily with that many performances. Well,
• 42:02
  there's a couple of things that came into play
• 42:04
  with that. I love theater. I loved the validation
• 42:10
  that I got doing my job consistently well. I
• 42:14
  love the benefits. You know, the status, the
• 42:18
  paycheck, all those wonderful things, the beautiful
• 42:20
  life I was able to build. But then beyond that,
• 42:23
  you know, getting back to what we were talking
• 42:25
  about earlier about, like, not letting myself
• 42:27
  be solely defined by the things outside of me.
• 42:30
  In the back of my mind was like, what kind of
• 42:33
  life do I have outside of this? And that's what
• 42:36
  was always knocking at the door. I love showing
• 42:39
  up on time and doing well, blah, blah, blah.
• 42:41
  And that feeling of, I guess I did another great
• 42:42
  show. Then at a certain point, I realized. It's
• 42:45
  not realistic to work at this kind of pace without
• 42:49
  balance. And slowly but surely, knocking on the
• 42:53
  door was like, okay, what else do you want to
• 42:55
  do? What else do you consist of? More than this,
• 42:58
  you know, there's other kinds, there's life still
• 43:01
  happening outside of eight shows a week. And
• 43:03
  that voice got louder and louder. And then I
• 43:05
  found that, okay, well, I'm not ready to leave
• 43:07
  the show. So how can I not sabotage this? Because
• 43:11
  I did get burnout. How can I not sabotage this
• 43:13
  incredible opportunity? Okay, that's when I started
• 43:16
  doing outside. You know, once I got back, when
• 43:18
  I got off tour, when you're on tour, it's great
• 43:20
  because you're going to different cities. You
• 43:21
  get to be a different version of yourself in
• 43:23
  every city. You're meeting new people. The show's
• 43:25
  a hit. People are rolling off the red carpet
• 43:27
  wherever you go. Once I came back into the New
• 43:30
  York company, which was tremendous to take over
• 43:33
  the role on Broadway, I was the second person
• 43:35
  to do it on Broadway. Then it becomes, okay,
• 43:38
  now I'm in New York or I'm back home. I have,
• 43:41
  there's no excuse to not only do the show. And
• 43:44
  I started, okay, now people would do benefits.
• 43:47
  I would donate my voice just to do service in
• 43:51
  that way. I would start doing more cabaret acts
• 43:53
  because I would reach a point where I'm like,
• 43:55
  okay, doing this same thing every time and finding
• 43:59
  new things within is great, but I need, I'm a
• 44:04
  creative. I need to create something else. So
• 44:06
  I would do my own show where I wasn't directed.
• 44:09
  I could sing what I wanted to sing the way I
• 44:11
  wanted to sing it. So that became a balance.
• 44:14
  And then when I get around again, I thought,
• 44:16
  you know what? Maybe I'll do a Disney CD. You
• 44:19
  know, every Broadway star eventually released
• 44:23
  some kind of recording. I thought, maybe I'll
• 44:24
  do some Disney songs and give them my own spin.
• 44:27
  So that took a lot of my time. And that was great
• 44:30
  because, like, I wasn't just Mufasa. I was also
• 44:34
  financing another aspect of my dream, my creativity.
• 44:37
  And that lasted for a long time. And then at
• 44:40
  some point I realized. Which, by the way, that
• 44:42
  album is fantastic. Thank you, man. We're going
• 44:46
  to put a link to that in the show because I listened
• 44:49
  to it and then I listened to it on repeat. It's
• 44:51
  just absolutely fabulous to hear you sing and
• 44:53
  your take on different Broadway Disney songs,
• 44:57
  right? So fun. I mean, it's such a good album.
• 44:59
  Supercalus is probably my favorite because it's
• 45:01
  so different. Is that the one you favorite? Yeah.
• 45:04
  That one and her voice. It's such a great song.
• 45:05
  Her voice is. Yeah. Little Mermaid is my second
• 45:09
  favorite. But yeah, so there are ways. And when
• 45:11
  I do my talk, I talk about balancing your passion.
• 45:15
  It's okay to have more than one passion. And
• 45:18
  if you can find something else to detach, like
• 45:20
  I love this thing, but I'm going to detach from
• 45:23
  that and go to this other thing, I get to come
• 45:26
  back to this thing that I love with fresh eyes.
• 45:28
  So when I was recording my CD during the day
• 45:33
  and then go to the show at night, it was like,
• 45:35
  oh, wow, now I get to do this. already know with
• 45:38
  a different kind of energy as opposed to doing
• 45:40
  the same thing because we all need refreshers
• 45:43
  and when i do my talks i remind people that you're
• 45:46
  allowed to take a break even if you have to schedule
• 45:48
  it it's okay because it's not realistic to go
• 45:51
  like this all the time it's just not we're not
• 45:55
  machines we're human beings and other parts of
• 45:57
  ourselves want attention yeah definitely true
• 46:01
  um you know when you're doing this too so you
• 46:05
  you were you do miss saigon i mean it's this
• 46:09
  huge hit right and then you're the second person
• 46:12
  to do mufasa on broadway which lion king is um
• 46:15
  you know the the most successful uh box office
• 46:18
  wise uh broadway music of all time and my sixth
• 46:21
  broadway show i've done six broadway shows in
• 46:22
  total my goodness right and and how how easy
• 46:27
  it might be for somebody who's done that many
• 46:30
  to let their ego get a little out of control.
• 46:32
  And I want to read you a quote from you. So I'm
• 46:35
  going to quote you to you, and then I want to
• 46:36
  get you down. You said, gratitude is a great
• 46:39
  remedy for when our egos get out of control.
• 46:40
  So tell me more about that, about how gratitude
• 46:43
  played a role for you to help keep that ego in
• 46:47
  check a little bit, recognizing that you still
• 46:49
  have to recognize that you can do a lot and you
• 46:51
  do great things, but not letting it get out of
• 46:53
  control. Well, for me, I mean, I learned a lot
• 46:58
  from my mentors. you know, throughout theater.
• 47:02
  Even when I was in the chorus, I would look at
• 47:03
  the principals, the stars, and see how do they
• 47:06
  behave themselves? How do they take direction?
• 47:07
  How do they... Because when you're the lead of
• 47:09
  a show, people treat you differently. They treat
• 47:11
  you like you're a parent, whether you are or
• 47:13
  not. They just look to you differently. If and
• 47:17
  when I am blessed enough to have the opportunity
• 47:19
  to be one of those kind of people, how do I behave?
• 47:22
  You know, how do I address the cast? How do I,
• 47:26
  you know, how... It's a very real thing. What
• 47:29
  persona do I want to take on? And so once I got
• 47:33
  to that point, and I would talk to these people
• 47:36
  and ask them questions, and they loved it. They
• 47:38
  loved it. I was one of those real serious kids
• 47:42
  who really wanted to do it and really wanted
• 47:44
  to know every aspect of it. They would feed me
• 47:46
  and tell me, well, you do this and you do that,
• 47:48
  and this is appropriate, this isn't appropriate.
• 47:50
  So I had that kind of training from my mentors,
• 47:53
  and I learned then that... It's never about you.
• 47:57
  It's always about the work. The work is the most
• 48:00
  important thing. As an actor, like with Lion
• 48:04
  King or any show that I do, there's a whole team
• 48:07
  of people who crafted this piece of art. And
• 48:11
  every word that they chose, they chose. So I
• 48:16
  can't add to it. All I can do is take what they
• 48:18
  said and try to give it different meaning. You
• 48:21
  know, but still tell the story. So there has
• 48:23
  never been about Eagle. It's always been about
• 48:25
  the work. And again, that came from my mentors.
• 48:28
  In gratitude, I mean, there were many times when
• 48:31
  I would be burnt out. I'd be sitting in my dressing
• 48:32
  room. I have one of the few dressing rooms on
• 48:34
  Broadway that has a window. Because most dressing
• 48:37
  rooms do not have windows. And my window faced
• 48:39
  out, I could see part of Times Square from my
• 48:42
  window. And I'd be sitting there going, you know,
• 48:45
  here I am playing Mufasa in the most incredible
• 48:47
  show ever. And what am I really doing with my
• 48:51
  life? You know what I mean? We all have those
• 48:53
  questions. no matter how successful we are, what
• 48:56
  am I really doing? And I would go, I remember
• 48:59
  those times, and I'd be walking through Times
• 49:01
  Square, not on Broadway, not working and thinking,
• 49:05
  will I ever be a part of this community again?
• 49:07
  Because you never know if your last Broadway
• 49:10
  show was going to be it. Like after Miss Saigon,
• 49:13
  I thought, this may be my one and only Broadway
• 49:15
  show. Thank goodness I got to do five more. But
• 49:18
  I think about that time and that feeling of not
• 49:20
  being a part of this thing I love, and I would
• 49:23
  go, Step out of it. I'm here right now. All right.
• 49:28
  So having gratitude at the foundation is something
• 49:30
  I can always tap into. And I have different levels
• 49:33
  of gratitude. So I will never get so burnt out
• 49:37
  that I can't tap into some kind of gratitude
• 49:39
  because it's that important to me. And I think
• 49:43
  that you may do some meditation. Is that one
• 49:45
  of the ways that you kind of center yourself
• 49:47
  in making sure that you find gratitude? Yeah.
• 49:48
  And to me, meditation isn't just sitting still.
• 49:53
  And this is something, another thing I discuss
• 49:54
  with my, when I do my talks for corporations
• 49:56
  and things, like meditation is whatever takes
• 49:58
  you to that comfortable place. My meditations
• 50:01
  are active, looking at meditation for me. I do
• 50:04
  hot yoga. You know, my best thoughts come to
• 50:07
  me when I'm in a hot room and I do not, I'm a
• 50:11
  fan, I'm a person who's not a fan of summer.
• 50:13
  So like me doing hot yoga is like, I can't believe
• 50:16
  that, you know, 17 years later that I'm a hot
• 50:18
  yogi, but it takes me to the place of like. where
• 50:21
  I go through the fire, I get to the other side,
• 50:23
  every class, and I find this place of, like,
• 50:25
  I never thought I'd be here. And that's where
• 50:28
  the clarity is for me. So whatever takes you
• 50:31
  there, for me, it is that. It is cooking. It
• 50:33
  is taking a beautiful drive. It's being in nature.
• 50:35
  I'm a tree hugger. You know, I have a garden.
• 50:38
  I'm blessed to have, live in a brownstone, have
• 50:40
  a roof garden. They feed me. I think that's something
• 50:43
  I get to nurture. So whatever, meditation doesn't
• 50:47
  have to be still. A lot of us are very busy.
• 50:49
  It could be... Yeah, that could be a beautiful
• 50:51
  drive and great music or sometimes just driving
• 50:54
  and listening to the wind. Whatever calms you
• 50:57
  down is your meditation. Yeah, I think it's a
• 50:59
  really great point. I think for me, it's something
• 51:02
  that I've kind of come to the realization of
• 51:03
  in the last few years. And for me, that's actually
• 51:05
  been running, which is not something I ever would
• 51:08
  have guessed, much like you don't like summer.
• 51:10
  I hated running. Like I thought it was terrible.
• 51:12
  Why would anybody do this torture? And yet I
• 51:14
  had a really good friend who just encouraged
• 51:16
  me to do it. And so I started doing it and I
• 51:18
  just stuck with it. And I finally got to this
• 51:20
  point where when I run, it's, it is an absolute
• 51:23
  meditative state. And I know I can go to that
• 51:25
  when I need to just think, when I need to just
• 51:28
  almost kind of clear my mind and then think really,
• 51:31
  really clearly about things. It's moving my body
• 51:34
  and it's running. And that's absolutely become
• 51:35
  that for me. And I love what you're saying there,
• 51:38
  the advice about. Like find what it is for you
• 51:40
  because it doesn't have to be sitting there,
• 51:42
  you know, doing a particular pose and doing owns,
• 51:44
  right? It doesn't have to be that. It can be
• 51:47
  a lot of things, but find what it is. And then
• 51:50
  be intentional. Yes. Do more of it. Be intentional.
• 51:54
  Do more of it. If you're busy, schedule time.
• 51:56
  Like this is for me. Oh, I'm going to take out
• 52:00
  a half hour, no matter what's going on, to detach
• 52:02
  and go do this thing. And then I'm going to come
• 52:04
  back a better version of myself for everything
• 52:07
  that I touch. Because I've given this to myself.
• 52:09
  I love what you said about running. You think,
• 52:11
  why would anybody do that? I felt the same way
• 52:13
  about yoga. But then when I do it, it's like
• 52:16
  I get the mental stuff, but then I get all the
• 52:18
  physical benefits, all the other stuff that I
• 52:20
  didn't even think about. But the real, the bottom
• 52:24
  line is I'm doing it for me. Yeah. And all those
• 52:29
  other things become great surprise benefits,
• 52:31
  right? Yeah, such a great point. You know, one
• 52:34
  of the things I thought about when you are doing
• 52:37
  all these performances of Mufasa, is that, you
• 52:41
  know, each night, it's like you have to hit such
• 52:45
  heavy emotional beats playing that role as Mufasa,
• 52:50
  right? How do you do that and not have those
• 52:53
  heavy emotional beats take a toll on your personal
• 52:56
  life? Well, this is where training comes in.
• 52:59
  Because, you know, I know a lot of folks. I did
• 53:02
  a show called The Color Purple. I got to play.
• 53:05
  Mister in the color purple. And I got to work
• 53:06
  with Fantasia, who was fantastic. She wanted
• 53:09
  to do the film. She was wonderful. She's naturally
• 53:12
  talented. And, you know, because it was so close
• 53:15
  to her real life, it was really hard for her
• 53:18
  to turn it off. And it was really, as a cast,
• 53:21
  we saw her really go through it, really struggle
• 53:23
  with it. She's such a genuine, sweet, kind. I
• 53:28
  mean, she's what you think she is. Just a Southern
• 53:30
  girl who's just the sweetest can be. And she's
• 53:33
  dealing with all this stuff. And it's like, here's
• 53:36
  a great example of like, you know, if you have
• 53:39
  training, part of your training is learning to
• 53:41
  like be there when you're there, but then turn
• 53:44
  it off once the curtain comes down. That's why
• 53:47
  many people think they can just go from TV and
• 53:50
  film or another medium and go and do eight shows
• 53:52
  a week. They always go, wow, I had no idea it
• 53:55
  was this hard. It's like, yeah, you've got to
• 53:57
  sustain that and you have to have a life beyond
• 54:00
  it. But if you don't have that kind of training,
• 54:01
  you can't help but take it home with you. because
• 54:03
  because you're using real parts of yourself to
• 54:06
  tap into this emotion to communicate to the audience
• 54:09
  so the training definitely helped and i was saying
• 54:14
  earlier about you know not i can't it's not realistic
• 54:19
  for me to only do mufasa and insist on every
• 54:23
  show be perfect i have to like leave some space
• 54:27
  for myself to make mistakes and to be human because
• 54:30
  i'm not a machine even though i'm consistent
• 54:32
  and i Am I proud of myself on that? I am a human
• 54:35
  being. So having a life out of it is very, very
• 54:39
  important. Something to detach to that you enjoy
• 54:41
  is very, very important. And this is with any
• 54:46
  business, right? Yeah. I mean, I think one of
• 54:50
  the things I thought about when I was kind of
• 54:52
  thinking through this and the emotional toll
• 54:54
  things can take and the repetitive. The repetitive
• 54:57
  beats that you have to have. When I think about
• 55:00
  what my profession is, one of the things that
• 55:02
  I struggled with initially when I was first doing
• 55:04
  divorces as a divorce attorney was trying to
• 55:07
  set aside my clients' issues and problems so
• 55:11
  that I didn't take them home as my own. Because
• 55:14
  I was doing those every day. I was counseling
• 55:17
  people every single day about... maybe the most
• 55:20
  difficult emotional thing that they've had to
• 55:21
  do, many of them in their lives. And it was really
• 55:24
  hard because I took it home, right? I took it
• 55:26
  home at first. It was so hard. And it just, over
• 55:29
  time, I learned to start creating better boundaries.
• 55:32
  I learned to start leaving that more at the office
• 55:34
  so that I didn't bring it home, but it took a
• 55:37
  toll initially, right? It was really hard. And
• 55:39
  in essence, that was the training I had to go
• 55:41
  through, I guess, which is kind of on the job
• 55:42
  training, I suppose, and see how the negative
• 55:45
  effects were, but realize I needed to do it a
• 55:47
  little bit differently. year. So was there anything
• 55:49
  particular that happened? Is there a particular
• 55:52
  case that made you go, wait, I can't, this is
• 55:55
  not sustainable. I've got to find, I've got to,
• 55:57
  this is something that, that caused you to really
• 55:59
  go, I need to set boundaries. Yes. And in fact,
• 56:05
  there was a number of like really difficult emotional
• 56:08
  cases that I had to deal with, with some like
• 56:10
  really tough things that happened, but the one
• 56:12
  that really made it clear to me that I needed
• 56:14
  to have the boundaries for. myself and for my
• 56:17
  family was actually the case was relatively innocuous
• 56:20
  but i was at disneyland with my family and i
• 56:23
  had given out my cell phone to some clients and
• 56:26
  i had a client that was just incessantly texting
• 56:29
  me about what they perceived as an emergency
• 56:32
  and i'm sure for them it felt that way for me
• 56:35
  knowing the law i knew that it wasn't right but
• 56:38
  i knew that it was something that didn't need
• 56:39
  to get addressed But it was just like text after
• 56:43
  text. And I'm trying to enjoy this time with
• 56:44
  my kids. I'm trying to be present with them.
• 56:46
  And my phone's getting blown up. And it was kind
• 56:49
  of like, oh, it hit me. The boundary has to be,
• 56:53
  I can't get about myself. I can't be dealing
• 56:56
  with these things when I'm going to be on vacation
• 56:58
  or I'm out of the office. It has to be, it's
• 57:00
  okay for me to set that aside. Does that mean
• 57:02
  that some clients aren't going to hire me because
• 57:04
  they can't access me 24 -7? It sure does. And
• 57:07
  that's okay. And I had to be okay with that.
• 57:09
  Exactly, dude. Know thyself and know what you
• 57:12
  need to perform at a high level. And it's different
• 57:16
  for all of us, but if you don't set it, then
• 57:18
  you leave yourself at the mercy of it. Because
• 57:20
  I feel like that person, if he keeps calling
• 57:24
  and you keep picking up, they think, well, it
• 57:25
  must be okay. That's exactly right. It's up to
• 57:29
  you to go, that is not okay. And also with me
• 57:33
  in those cases, I've learned to really trust
• 57:36
  my instincts. with any friendships, anything,
• 57:38
  even kids who want to be looking for mentorship,
• 57:41
  I can tell if the kid is looking for me to do
• 57:44
  everything for them or if they've already started
• 57:46
  and they just need help. Because I don't like
• 57:50
  wasting my time. You know, I like making good
• 57:53
  investments. And I've learned to go, okay, yeah,
• 57:56
  I'm a loving, giving person, but that has to
• 57:58
  be earned from someone. I'm not going to just
• 58:00
  give it because I've allowed it to be abused
• 58:03
  so many times. So you live and you learn. yeah
• 58:07
  yeah no doubt so one of the other things too
• 58:09
  i wanted to get a little bit more of your take
• 58:11
  on as well is what did you learn from being mufasa
• 58:17
  himself right being the king both the things
• 58:21
  the lessons from that show but also what you
• 58:23
  mentioned a little bit in your in your book which
• 58:25
  is unessence kind of became that for the cast
• 58:28
  at times as well like the leader for the cast
• 58:30
  tell me what lessons you learned from mufasa
• 58:33
  i learned um I learned quiet strength. I learned
• 58:38
  that you don't need a lot of words to make your
• 58:39
  point. Because when I first saw Lion King, I
• 58:43
  first saw Lion King, I was doing a show called
• 58:44
  Ragtime, where I was like the star of the last
• 58:47
  battle of this glorious show that I'm actually
• 58:50
  in the process of directing. I'm making my directorial
• 58:53
  debut with it in September. So I've been in meetings
• 58:57
  for the past month with, you know, costume designers
• 59:00
  and set designers. I had, you know, three meetings
• 59:03
  this morning. But anyway. Where's that going
• 59:05
  to be? I have to digress here. Where's that going
• 59:07
  to be at? It's going to be in Lancaster, Pennsylvania,
• 59:09
  in a place called the Fulton Theater, a beautiful
• 59:11
  theater. No kidding. But I'm doing this big show,
• 59:16
  and I remember that year, the Tonys, it was Ragtime
• 59:20
  and The Lion King. And who's going to win Best
• 59:24
  Musical? The Tonys, one would win something,
• 59:27
  then the other. And they kept going down, and
• 59:29
  then Lion King, of course, took the prize. And
• 59:32
  I remember thinking, Man, when I get a chance
• 59:35
  to see the show, I want to see what the big deal.
• 59:36
  It can't be all of that. And then, of course,
• 59:38
  I saw it. I was like, oh, wow. I remember seeing
• 59:41
  the gentleman who played the original Mufasa
• 59:44
  and being moved by his performance, but thinking,
• 59:46
  man, he doesn't have enough to do. I could never
• 59:49
  play that part because he's just not enough there.
• 59:51
  I was younger then. And then I was cast as Mufasa
• 59:54
  to open the national tour and take it around
• 59:56
  the country for the first time. I complained.
• 59:59
  I was like, man, he's only in the first act.
• 1:00:02
  He doesn't have a whole lot of lines. But it
• 1:00:05
  was what it was. And then when I left the show
• 1:00:07
  to do Mr. in the Color Purple, and then was invited
• 1:00:11
  back to Lion King to open the Vegas company,
• 1:00:14
  I was like, wow, I've matured some. And now I
• 1:00:19
  understand why he says what he says. He doesn't
• 1:00:22
  need a whole lot of dialogue. It's about his
• 1:00:25
  presence, about what he represents. It's about
• 1:00:27
  his inner strength. It's about him taking the
• 1:00:31
  few words he has to say and saying them with
• 1:00:34
  meaning. I had enough life experience at that
• 1:00:36
  point to go, I can just say it like this, and
• 1:00:40
  that's it. So it taught me that the power of
• 1:00:45
  words, the power of clarity, strength. It taught
• 1:00:51
  me that a leader is not just someone who tells
• 1:00:53
  people what to do. A leader is also a very good
• 1:00:56
  listener. and a good problem solver and a good
• 1:00:59
  team player and listens well enough to go, okay,
• 1:01:02
  given what I've learned, you might be good at
• 1:01:05
  doing this. You might be good at doing that.
• 1:01:07
  You might be good at doing this. Let's all do
• 1:01:10
  this. Let's all make this happen together as
• 1:01:11
  opposed to I have to make that. So it taught
• 1:01:14
  me a lot of things about leadership and what
• 1:01:16
  it takes to really be king. And we all have that
• 1:01:20
  in us. For sure. Real quick, one of the things
• 1:01:24
  that I wanted to ask you about as well was one
• 1:01:26
  of the songs that was unique to the Broadway
• 1:01:29
  version of Lion King. It's just such an amazing
• 1:01:33
  song. And just really get your interpretation
• 1:01:36
  of what the song means for you and what it could
• 1:01:39
  mean for people. And in the song, and I'm sure
• 1:01:42
  you know which one I'm going to talk about, but
• 1:01:43
  the song lines read, He lives in you. He lives
• 1:01:46
  in me. He watches over everything we see into
• 1:01:49
  the water, into the truth, in your reflection.
• 1:01:52
  He lives in you. And so just some wonderful lines
• 1:01:57
  and the way that it plays out to you is just
• 1:02:00
  such an emotional song. So, you know, for you,
• 1:02:02
  what are the meanings of that song in your life?
• 1:02:07
  And as you were part of that, as you would sing
• 1:02:11
  and hear others sing that, what did that song
• 1:02:13
  mean to you? Well, when I first saw the show,
• 1:02:17
  actually before I saw the show, to be totally
• 1:02:20
  honest, I heard the soundtrack. And that song
• 1:02:23
  stood out to me. Something about the lyrics and
• 1:02:26
  music. I was like, whoa. And I remember back
• 1:02:28
  in the day, before iPods and things, we had,
• 1:02:33
  you know, if you liked songs, you would make
• 1:02:35
  your own playlist on a cassette. And on my cassette,
• 1:02:38
  on my gym cassette, was They Live In You. I thought
• 1:02:41
  it was so beautiful. It helped get me up. It
• 1:02:43
  helped me get motivated for the gym. And then
• 1:02:47
  when I saw the show and the way it staged, it
• 1:02:49
  was like, wow. And there's two different versions.
• 1:02:53
  Mufasa thinks they live in you. Because he's
• 1:02:57
  explaining, Simba asked him, you know, dad will
• 1:02:59
  always be together, right? And Mufasa, you know,
• 1:03:02
  coming out of just having saved him from the
• 1:03:04
  hyenas, is not expecting, they've had the talk
• 1:03:07
  about danger. He wasn't expecting to have this
• 1:03:10
  talk about, yeah, one day I won't be here. So
• 1:03:13
  he looks up into the stars and taps into the
• 1:03:16
  energy of his ancestors and sings they live in
• 1:03:18
  you. And then in act two, when Simba's trying
• 1:03:21
  to find his own, thinking about going back, he
• 1:03:24
  sings, he lives in you, which is talking about
• 1:03:27
  Mufasa. So to me, what the song says, especially
• 1:03:30
  they live in you, is that energy never dies.
• 1:03:34
  That we have the opportunity to pull from anyone
• 1:03:38
  that we've ever heard about, we've ever encountered,
• 1:03:43
  the lessons, the love, the beauty. Anything we
• 1:03:47
  want, if we choose to remember, which is the
• 1:03:51
  recurring theme of Lion King. Remember who you
• 1:03:54
  are. Remember where you come from. So that song
• 1:03:56
  means a lot to me, especially as a Black male
• 1:04:00
  who was pursuing theater, who when I went to
• 1:04:04
  college, when I started college, I was told that
• 1:04:06
  there were no roles for me on Broadway. I remember
• 1:04:08
  being in class as the only Black male in this
• 1:04:12
  class and the teacher going around the... class
• 1:04:15
  and going susan when you get to new york you
• 1:04:17
  got this looking for you waiting for you and
• 1:04:19
  him you and oh alton unfortunately the only things
• 1:04:24
  waiting for you are slave type roles like in
• 1:04:25
  showboat if you said this in front of the class
• 1:04:28
  i remember thinking she's talking to me did she
• 1:04:30
  really say this aloud of course i hurt my feelings
• 1:04:33
  as a young person but again it was another test
• 1:04:35
  am i gonna let her ignorance be projected onto
• 1:04:40
  me No. And no matter how much it hurt my feelings,
• 1:04:43
  I still knew that I wanted to do it. I thought,
• 1:04:45
  wow, this is a good lesson for me. You know,
• 1:04:48
  I will be tested, but yeah, I still want to do
• 1:04:51
  it. And I believe that there is something waiting
• 1:04:52
  for me. So I think about all those things. I
• 1:04:54
  think about the Black performers who came before
• 1:04:57
  me, who were more talented than me, who didn't
• 1:04:59
  have the opportunity to get to Broadway because
• 1:05:01
  of the times. And I go, wow, I get to pull from
• 1:05:04
  their energy. I get to represent them. And not
• 1:05:08
  just them, but anybody. in history that has inspired
• 1:05:12
  me, I get to be a present representation of them.
• 1:05:14
  So they will always live in me as long as I allow
• 1:05:17
  them to. So that's kind of like a major theme
• 1:05:22
  of my life. It was when I first heard the song
• 1:05:24
  and then getting the opportunity to perform it
• 1:05:26
  nightly and have that meaning behind it, you
• 1:05:29
  know, in the context of the show and also what
• 1:05:30
  I felt about it personally was tremendous. A
• 1:05:33
  tremendous gift to be able to really share that
• 1:05:35
  in that way. Well, I think part of what's so
• 1:05:38
  inspirational for me about you and your story
• 1:05:41
  is, especially hearing some of the things you
• 1:05:43
  shared today, is that you're keeping those parts
• 1:05:47
  of inspiration and letting those be what you
• 1:05:50
  remember as opposed to the things that... a lot
• 1:05:54
  of people might use as excuses for not doing
• 1:05:57
  something great and for holding themselves back
• 1:05:59
  because they experienced something so hard and
• 1:06:02
  so difficult. And so they have all the excuses
• 1:06:03
  in the world not to go put themselves out there
• 1:06:06
  and to do something truly great. And yet what
• 1:06:08
  you've done is, is something truly great and
• 1:06:10
  truly inspirational for, for so many people.
• 1:06:12
  And I thank you for that. Oh, thank you. So one
• 1:06:15
  of the things we want to end with is we'll do
• 1:06:17
  a quick little fun segment. We're going to do
• 1:06:19
  a quick this or that and rapid fire, and then
• 1:06:20
  we'll wrap up with your three actionable takeaways.
• 1:06:23
  So buckle up for this, this or that. Okay. Are
• 1:06:25
  you ready for this? I mean, I'm sitting down.
• 1:06:27
  I got my nerves together. All right, let's go.
• 1:06:29
  Let's go. All right. First one, circle of life
• 1:06:32
  or Hakuna Matata? Circle of life. So good. I'm
• 1:06:39
  going to digress for a second here, even though
• 1:06:40
  it's not going to be fast. One of the most brilliant
• 1:06:42
  things I think that Disney did was when they
• 1:06:43
  did the initial trailer for the movie, that it
• 1:06:46
  was just Circle of Life. That's what they did.
• 1:06:49
  It was literally just that, that whole opening
• 1:06:51
  scene. There wasn't anything else in the trailer.
• 1:06:53
  And it was the most brilliant thing because the
• 1:06:55
  song is so beautifully written and the whole
• 1:06:57
  thing about it is just so wonderful. I love that.
• 1:07:00
  And it's about community. That opening is about
• 1:07:01
  community coming together. which is everything,
• 1:07:04
  right? Community. Yeah, which we can all relate
• 1:07:06
  to, right? It's so much of that, like we talked
• 1:07:08
  about before, the sense of belonging. Yeah. And
• 1:07:11
  having a sense of belonging because we all can
• 1:07:12
  work together. We all become something that can
• 1:07:14
  support each other. And also, can I tell you
• 1:07:17
  something that just bugs me? It really bugs me.
• 1:07:20
  Everybody says something, instead of saying,
• 1:07:22
  excuse me, or no problem, or you're welcome,
• 1:07:24
  they go, no worries. I'm like, where did this
• 1:07:26
  no worries thing come from? And now I just go,
• 1:07:29
  you know what I'm talking about? And they looked
• 1:07:30
  at me like, what I'm like, means no worries.
• 1:07:32
  I'm like, where did that, why does everybody
• 1:07:34
  start saying no worries instead of like other
• 1:07:38
  words? It seems really lazy to me. Sure. You're
• 1:07:42
  welcome. No worries. And it's like, who's worried?
• 1:07:46
  Nobody's worried about anything. But anyway.
• 1:07:48
  I actually saw a clip a couple of days ago that
• 1:07:53
  said exactly that, right? Like, we got to all
• 1:07:55
  stop saying no worries. There's so many other
• 1:07:57
  things we can say that are more precise and much
• 1:07:59
  better. Use your vocabulary. You know other words.
• 1:08:02
  I might have to borrow that. I might have to
• 1:08:04
  borrow that idea of hakuna matata next time somebody
• 1:08:06
  says no worries. Hakuna matata? Is that what
• 1:08:09
  we're talking about? Right, exactly. It always
• 1:08:11
  throws them and they wind up giggling. Yeah.
• 1:08:13
  Yeah, I'm like, anyway. I love it. Bring a little
• 1:08:15
  levity, right? It's always kind of fun to bring
• 1:08:17
  a little levity. Opening night or closing night?
• 1:08:21
  Opening night. Closing nights are so hard. Oh,
• 1:08:25
  I'm sure. Because you become such a family. I
• 1:08:27
  don't care. Like, even this thing I just sang
• 1:08:28
  with the Pops last week with the other singers,
• 1:08:30
  and we had, you know, so little time to put this
• 1:08:33
  together. You rehearse on your own. You got blocking,
• 1:08:36
  staging, one day with the orchestra the next
• 1:08:38
  day, and then you do it. And it's so concentrated.
• 1:08:41
  You're depending on each other in ways you can't
• 1:08:43
  even imagine. Then suddenly it's over. It's like
• 1:08:45
  always sad, no matter how. And it was a triumph,
• 1:08:50
  but it's still like, oh, man, I don't know when
• 1:08:52
  I will ever see them again. And the four of us
• 1:08:56
  may never, ever work together like this. But
• 1:08:58
  opening is always exciting. It's like you don't
• 1:09:00
  know what it's going to be. You've rehearsed,
• 1:09:01
  but you still don't know until that moment what
• 1:09:04
  it's going to be. So there's an excitement and
• 1:09:06
  a nervousness that's a part of the opening. Yeah,
• 1:09:09
  I love that. It's a great answer. Matinee or
• 1:09:12
  evening show? Evening. Matinees are rough. Oh,
• 1:09:16
  yeah. I mean, probably just the volume, the sheer
• 1:09:18
  volume of what you've got to do. Dude, when I
• 1:09:20
  was doing Ragtime, which is a beast of a show,
• 1:09:23
  you know, my character sings all these anthems.
• 1:09:26
  You know, we did a five -show weekend. We did
• 1:09:28
  those with Lion King, too. So you as an audience
• 1:09:30
  member, you're seeing the show and going, oh,
• 1:09:32
  my goodness, you're exhausted from having gone
• 1:09:34
  on this journey. And we're going to do, if you
• 1:09:36
  see a 2 o 'clock show, we're going to do that
• 1:09:38
  again that evening. So a typical five -show weekend
• 1:09:42
  is Tuesday, Saturday, Sunday. You see no daylight.
• 1:09:47
  All you see is the dark theater, and you're doing
• 1:09:51
  what you love to do. So that's a whole other
• 1:09:53
  set of challenges that the average person doesn't
• 1:09:57
  know about. And I remember that. Because I see
• 1:10:00
  a lot of shows now, and I go, Steve, you're really
• 1:10:02
  good. I go... When I go see an evening show,
• 1:10:03
  like a Wednesday night, knowing they've done
• 1:10:05
  a matinee that day, I go, how did they do it?
• 1:10:08
  And I did it. And I still don't understand, like,
• 1:10:11
  how did they get all that emotion, all that investment
• 1:10:13
  twice today? Wow. Yeah. It gives me a greater
• 1:10:18
  appreciation for, because my wife and I now love
• 1:10:21
  going to New York because we just absolutely
• 1:10:23
  love Broadway. And when we're there. We have
• 1:10:25
  to connect the next time you're here, for sure.
• 1:10:27
  Oh, 100%. 100%. Whenever I'm there, I always
• 1:10:30
  kind of bemoan like, oh, it's Monday. There's
• 1:10:33
  no shows. How come they don't do shows on Monday?
• 1:10:35
  Well, it's because they're doing so many. Like,
• 1:10:37
  they have to have a break. They're human, right?
• 1:10:40
  Like, of course, there's going to be a day. Some
• 1:10:42
  theaters have gotten smart. Now they do Monday
• 1:10:44
  shows. They'll have a Thursday off because they
• 1:10:47
  want to take advantage. They want to be one of
• 1:10:50
  three things you have an option of seeing. And
• 1:10:52
  there's always a Broadway happening everywhere.
• 1:10:54
  But more and more people are doing Monday shows
• 1:10:56
  for that reason. Yeah. Okay, so I'm going to
• 1:10:59
  vary from the this or that real quick, and I'm
• 1:11:00
  going to ask you a quick rapid fire. What's your
• 1:11:02
  favorite show currently on Broadway that's not
• 1:11:05
  Lion King? Oh, my favorite show on Broadway,
• 1:11:07
  that's, oh, that's tough. Man, what have I seen
• 1:11:11
  that I really love? I'm trying to think of what's
• 1:11:12
  on Broadway. I see so much theater that I'm trying
• 1:11:15
  to remember what's Broadway, what's off Broadway.
• 1:11:18
  My favorite on -Broadway show, it's probably
• 1:11:21
  - Is Desi Comes Here still playing? No, it just
• 1:11:23
  closed a couple of weeks ago. I loved it. Did
• 1:11:25
  you see that? I did. I saw it twice. Oh, it was
• 1:11:27
  so good. It was great, yeah. I normally say Hadestown.
• 1:11:30
  Hadestown is really a fantastic show. Hadestown's
• 1:11:33
  amazing. Yeah, I've seen it like three times.
• 1:11:34
  You weren't ever in Hadestown, were you? No.
• 1:11:36
  I always said that if I were to go back to theater,
• 1:11:38
  that's, Hadestown is a role that I would want
• 1:11:40
  to play. Because you'd be incredible. In that
• 1:11:43
  role. Yeah. You'd be absolutely unbelievable.
• 1:11:44
  That show, I mean, that show takes some singing,
• 1:11:47
  right? I mean, all Broadway does, but boy, that
• 1:11:49
  one sure does. And when, every time I've seen
• 1:11:52
  it, it just blew my socks off. It's so good.
• 1:11:54
  It's one of those shows where you really feel
• 1:11:56
  like you're a part of the world. Yeah. You just
• 1:11:58
  really, like, you forget that you're in a theater
• 1:12:00
  and you really feel like you're in, you're on
• 1:12:01
  stage with them, living all of that. Yes. Very
• 1:12:04
  few shows can take you there. Yeah, it totally
• 1:12:07
  brings you in. Okay, singing in the shower or
• 1:12:09
  singing in the car? Both. More in the car. I'm
• 1:12:16
  always conscious of my neighbors. I'm always
• 1:12:18
  conscious of that, but in the car, dude. Full
• 1:12:20
  on. Full concert. For me, it's the car because
• 1:12:23
  I still do it in the shower, but my kids hear
• 1:12:26
  it and then they tease me because I'm not a good
• 1:12:28
  singer at all. Legitimately, I'm not. They're
• 1:12:31
  always giving me a hard time when I'm singing
• 1:12:32
  in the shower. Singing in the car, like, hakuna
• 1:12:35
  matata. Exactly right. Exactly. Okay, backstage
• 1:12:41
  pass or red carpet? Ooh, backstage pass. Okay,
• 1:12:48
  tell me more. Red carpet is for showing off,
• 1:12:53
  which is nice, but it's like, ah, it's more social.
• 1:12:56
  It's more, it doesn't really mean anything. It's
• 1:12:59
  temporary, but going backstage to actually talk
• 1:13:02
  to people and tell them, my goodness, you really
• 1:13:05
  moved me, or that is a whole other thing. That's
• 1:13:07
  more personal. Yeah, I love that. That's a great
• 1:13:10
  answer. And lasting. Yes, for sure. Okay, here's
• 1:13:13
  a rapid fire. And if you don't have an answer
• 1:13:17
  on these, that's okay. You can always pass if
• 1:13:19
  you want, but we're just going to get your first
• 1:13:20
  take on these, okay? Favorite Disney movie? The
• 1:13:25
  Lion King. Okay, if it wasn't The Lion King,
• 1:13:28
  because I thought maybe you would answer that
• 1:13:29
  way, because I totally get it. If it wasn't The
• 1:13:31
  Lion King. It would be, I like The Little Mermaid.
• 1:13:35
  So good. Little Mermaid's got great music, too.
• 1:13:39
  Phenomenal music. And speaking of music... On
• 1:13:42
  my CD, her voice, that being one of my top two
• 1:13:47
  favorites, it's a song that Prince Eric sings
• 1:13:50
  that was cut from the film. But they did use
• 1:13:54
  it for the stage production. And I knew when
• 1:13:56
  I heard it, it's a ballad, but I knew immediately
• 1:13:58
  that I wanted to speed it up and give it a driving
• 1:14:00
  beat. And it tends to be people's favorite song.
• 1:14:03
  yeah i love that yeah um and and so with that
• 1:14:06
  favorite disney song um her voice okay yeah there
• 1:14:13
  we go it's so descriptive it's it takes place
• 1:14:16
  right after you know ariel's rescued him and
• 1:14:19
  he's like did i dream did someone come save me
• 1:14:21
  was there a girl where is she i keep hearing
• 1:14:24
  her voice you know it's you know it's it just
• 1:14:27
  really lays it out beautifully the song the lyrics
• 1:14:29
  and the music love it Favorite Disney princess?
• 1:14:34
  My favorite Disney princess would be probably,
• 1:14:40
  I can't, this is Tiana. Wonderful princess, right?
• 1:14:48
  Not to show that when it first came out, it didn't
• 1:14:51
  do super well, but I think it's gained a lot
• 1:14:54
  more attention and a lot more people who love
• 1:14:56
  it. Me and my kids, we love it now. I think it's
• 1:14:59
  so fun. I love the music in that one, too. Really,
• 1:15:03
  really fun show. Do you, I should ask before
• 1:15:06
  I ask this next question, do you ever go to Disneyland
• 1:15:07
  or Disney World? Yes, I spend a lot of time working
• 1:15:10
  at Disney World. The Festival of the Arts, I
• 1:15:12
  helped start that whole thing that's become a
• 1:15:14
  yearly thing. No kidding. Yeah, it's like, you
• 1:15:16
  know, they have the Food and Wine Festival. They
• 1:15:18
  have the whole winter thing. We started what's
• 1:15:22
  called Festival of the Arts about probably almost
• 1:15:24
  10 years ago now. It happens at the top of the
• 1:15:27
  year where they would take four different Broadway
• 1:15:29
  stars and we'd do concerts in the outdoor space
• 1:15:33
  at Epcot. Yes, which is a cool space. I did it
• 1:15:37
  for the first five years. Oh, my goodness. Do
• 1:15:40
  you ever go down there still for it? I don't.
• 1:15:43
  I don't go unless I'm being sent for it. Okay.
• 1:15:46
  That's fair. I was going to say, if you're ever
• 1:15:47
  going down there, I want to know Wayne because
• 1:15:49
  I'm going to go meet you down there. Yeah, I
• 1:15:51
  did. I stepped away from it, then I did it again
• 1:15:54
  last year. And I might do it again. If I do,
• 1:15:56
  I'll let you know. And I've also been the narrator
• 1:15:57
  for the winter thing a couple of times. If I
• 1:15:59
  do, I'll definitely let you know. That was incredible
• 1:16:01
  to be there. You as a narrator would be awesome.
• 1:16:04
  Dude, it was so much fun. So when you go down
• 1:16:08
  there for things like that, do they give you,
• 1:16:09
  like, kind of special access to go on rides?
• 1:16:12
  They kind of give you the VIP? It's the worst.
• 1:16:14
  I get a tour guide. I get a two -bedroom suite.
• 1:16:18
  I'm allowed to buy up to eight friends down with
• 1:16:22
  me. It is the best gig in the world. Oh, man,
• 1:16:25
  it sounds incredible. I tell you, I've seen every
• 1:16:27
  inch of Disney World in every kind of way. You
• 1:16:31
  have. Dude, that's one of the things I'm most
• 1:16:33
  grateful for because that definitely satisfies
• 1:16:35
  a little boy. I mean, little Alton watching the
• 1:16:38
  wonderful world of Disney on Sunday nights after
• 1:16:41
  the Mutual of Omaha Wild Kingdom. That was it.
• 1:16:44
  We would watch Mutual Omaha and watch Disney
• 1:16:45
  World. I was going, wow, one day. And to get
• 1:16:48
  to do that and find my sisters out and my family
• 1:16:52
  and go, look at us. It's happening. We're at
• 1:16:54
  Disney World. Dreams come true. Yeah, no question.
• 1:16:59
  So with that, related to that, what's your favorite
• 1:17:01
  Disney ride? Ooh, my favorite Disney ride is
• 1:17:05
  their latest one. I got to ride it the first
• 1:17:10
  week it opened. What's it called? It's based
• 1:17:16
  on a movie. Guardians. I had to write it the
• 1:17:20
  first week it opened. The first time I wrote
• 1:17:25
  it, I was done for the day. Have you ever written
• 1:17:28
  it? Yes. It doesn't just go like this. The whole
• 1:17:32
  thing turns. I was not ready. It's the first
• 1:17:36
  ride we did with my family. Because I had guests,
• 1:17:40
  I had to suffer through it. You can't go on the
• 1:17:43
  rides or get to the front of the line without
• 1:17:45
  me. But then when I went back last year, I said,
• 1:17:49
  let me try it again. And I was like, I love it.
• 1:17:51
  I took some Dramamine before. There you go. And
• 1:17:55
  I was like, this is the most thrilling thing
• 1:17:56
  I've ever done. So that's my favorite. That's
• 1:17:59
  a great one. We had a really fun experience last
• 1:18:02
  time we went to Disney World with our two little
• 1:18:04
  daughters who were 10 and 6. And we had been
• 1:18:08
  trying to go on it all day, but we went during
• 1:18:09
  a time of year where it just had rained a lot.
• 1:18:11
  I mean, it rained incessantly on us that day.
• 1:18:13
  And Guardians had kept closing down when we were
• 1:18:16
  going to go. And they were opening it back up,
• 1:18:17
  and we tried to go, and it closed down. And so
• 1:18:19
  it's at the end of the day. The park is five
• 1:18:21
  minutes from closing, and they open it back up.
• 1:18:23
  yeah and so my one daughter my 10 year old and
• 1:18:27
  i get in line because my wife is like our six
• 1:18:29
  -year -old she was toe she was taking her on
• 1:18:31
  the uh on the bus back we're like hey we gotta
• 1:18:34
  see if we can get it and so we do and so we're
• 1:18:36
  going on it after hours by this point time you
• 1:18:39
  know the park's been closed for 45 minutes almost
• 1:18:41
  an hour and we get to go on it and we just loved
• 1:18:44
  it it's such a great memory that she and i have
• 1:18:47
  now going on that ride and the music all of it
• 1:18:49
  together yes I got another little story, though,
• 1:18:53
  that was really great. When they first opened,
• 1:18:56
  what's the futuristic land? Avatar Land, that
• 1:19:00
  whole thing. Oh, yeah. I got to go on that before
• 1:19:03
  it opened, too, because I was down to doing,
• 1:19:06
  because I've done, especially arts, I've done
• 1:19:08
  some speaking gigs for teachers, because Disney's
• 1:19:11
  really good about honoring people, and I was
• 1:19:14
  brought in to praise teachers, and it happened
• 1:19:18
  to be around when they were just about to open
• 1:19:19
  it. And they almost didn't let us do it. They
• 1:19:22
  were like, you know what, we shouldn't do this,
• 1:19:23
  but okay. So we got permission to ride the, what
• 1:19:26
  is it called, Flight of Passage? What is it?
• 1:19:28
  Yeah, Flight of Passage, yeah. Oh, dude, that
• 1:19:30
  was like, yeah, that's another one. That probably
• 1:19:34
  came to your mind. Yeah, you feel like you're
• 1:19:37
  riding a Banshee when they do it. The way that
• 1:19:39
  they have it set up, the smells they have come
• 1:19:42
  when you're doing it, it is incredible. Yeah,
• 1:19:44
  it's magnificent. Yeah, such a great ride. Yeah.
• 1:19:48
  Yeah, I love those. Okay, a couple more here.
• 1:19:50
  Besides Mufasa, what's the favorite role you've
• 1:19:53
  ever played? It was Mr. in the Color Purple.
• 1:19:57
  Okay. Yeah, because Mr. really helped me heal
• 1:20:01
  my relationship with my father. Playing Mr. and
• 1:20:05
  that whole time period, I realized it helped
• 1:20:07
  me. I'd already done a lot of healing, but I
• 1:20:09
  realized, oh, wow, so many of our fathers had
• 1:20:11
  such limited resources in terms of healing outside
• 1:20:14
  of alcohol, the bar. sports you know men a lot
• 1:20:19
  of men are raised to really tap into the other
• 1:20:22
  parts of themselves and so it really helped me
• 1:20:24
  give some distance of like wow i have compassion
• 1:20:27
  a deeper compassion for him and men of his time
• 1:20:30
  yeah totally i love that that answer um okay
• 1:20:35
  two more um One, it might be a little bit deeper,
• 1:20:39
  so it might not be rapid fire really easily,
• 1:20:40
  but how are you saying yes and in your life right
• 1:20:44
  now? Because obviously that's our podcast, Yes
• 1:20:46
  And. How are you saying yes and in your life
• 1:20:49
  right now? In agreeing to direct Ragtime, to
• 1:20:53
  make my directorial debut, I directed Ragtime,
• 1:20:56
  a symphonic version of it, which is different
• 1:20:59
  because the symphonic version is the focus on
• 1:21:01
  the magnificent music. so i did a lot of staging
• 1:21:04
  i got to design what it's going to look like
• 1:21:07
  and the projections and screens to to set where
• 1:21:10
  we are it was very fulfilling and but i was also
• 1:21:13
  playing cold house i was directing and starring
• 1:21:16
  in it which was a lot i remember thinking you
• 1:21:18
  know this is great to sing this music again after
• 1:21:21
  25 years and that i still can sing it and hit
• 1:21:24
  those notes after 25 years but i really would
• 1:21:26
  rather just kind of stood back and watch the
• 1:21:28
  whole thing come together then Last fall, I got
• 1:21:32
  a call from somebody that I did my first equity
• 1:21:35
  show with many years ago, who's now running a
• 1:21:37
  theater and said, would you be interested in
• 1:21:40
  directing Ragtime? And I was like, yes. And what
• 1:21:47
  do I need to learn? And I said, I've not directed
• 1:21:49
  for a theater before. I've not dealt with, I
• 1:21:53
  mean, I have dealt with different. when I did
• 1:21:56
  the concert version, but this is different. You're
• 1:21:59
  talking about set design and this and that. And
• 1:22:02
  he goes, working with first -time directors,
• 1:22:04
  we love nurturing them. It's something we do.
• 1:22:07
  I appreciate your expertise, not only with your
• 1:22:09
  journey with Ragtime, but your whole career.
• 1:22:12
  And I thought, wow, it's a chance for me to take
• 1:22:13
  my overall experience, the accumulation of my
• 1:22:16
  life, and put it into art. And it's been very
• 1:22:20
  challenging because I'm learning a lot. I have
• 1:22:22
  a different appreciation for what it takes to
• 1:22:24
  put a show together. I've never been in so many
• 1:22:26
  meetings in my entire life. And I'm very much
• 1:22:29
  an introvert. So, like, I'm going, yes, and,
• 1:22:32
  and then I'm coming out of myself. Yeah. Even
• 1:22:35
  with this. Like, normally, you know, I'm a busy
• 1:22:37
  guy. And I thought, past, yes. I have an opportunity
• 1:22:40
  to share. Yes, and. So, even this is something
• 1:22:44
  that is into that category. Yeah, great answer.
• 1:22:48
  Okay, here's our last rapid -fire question. What
• 1:22:51
  is a question I should have asked you that I
• 1:22:53
  didn't? Or any story you had wanted to share
• 1:22:58
  that we didn't get to? That's a good question.
• 1:23:01
  I guess something that you could have asked me
• 1:23:09
  that you didn't. Something kind of really basic,
• 1:23:11
  but like, am I happy? Are you happy? Yeah. And
• 1:23:17
  the answer is I am joyful. Oh, I love that. Because
• 1:23:22
  I feel like happiness comes and goes, but I feel
• 1:23:24
  like the accumulation of my experiences have
• 1:23:27
  taught me for my life that joy is more important
• 1:23:31
  than happiness. That joy is something I can,
• 1:23:35
  no matter how challenging the day, I can detach
• 1:23:37
  from it and go, let me tap back into my joy.
• 1:23:40
  As opposed to like, what's going to make me happy
• 1:23:42
  right now? No, let me tap into that reservoir
• 1:23:45
  of joy and sort of like gratitude, having that
• 1:23:48
  at my foundation. I can rest in that. I can lay
• 1:23:52
  in that. I can find peace and solace in that
• 1:23:54
  and then get back up and go back at it. Yeah,
• 1:23:58
  that's such a wonderfully put. I love the way
• 1:24:02
  that you describe that and the difference between
• 1:24:03
  joy and happiness. Terrific answer. All right.
• 1:24:07
  Well, as we finish up here, what we always ask
• 1:24:09
  our guests for is what are three actionable takeaways
• 1:24:13
  that somebody could put into effect in their
• 1:24:14
  life today or this week? So what are three actionable
• 1:24:18
  takeaways? Dream. Allow yourself to dream. Dreams
• 1:24:24
  are a gateway to things actually happening. Creating
• 1:24:27
  space for things to happen, for your wildest
• 1:24:31
  dreams to come true. I would say tap into your
• 1:24:33
  courage. Courage is a thing that I respect most
• 1:24:37
  in anyone. Courage to be who you are. Courage
• 1:24:40
  to tell the truth. Courage to tell your truth
• 1:24:43
  and live your truth. And I would say action.
• 1:24:47
  Putting those things into action. You can sit
• 1:24:49
  and talk about it, but at some point you have
• 1:24:51
  to do something for things to change, for things
• 1:24:54
  to shift. I love it. Courage action. Great takeaways.
• 1:25:00
  Alton, it's been such a pleasure visiting with
• 1:25:02
  you. And thank you so much for taking the time
• 1:25:04
  to visit with us to share who you are and your
• 1:25:07
  experiences with our audience. I think people
• 1:25:09
  will be so richly blessed that listen. Anybody
• 1:25:13
  who's listening, pick up his book. You've got
• 1:25:15
  to read his book. It really was a joy to read.
• 1:25:18
  Honestly, buy the book and listen to the audio
• 1:25:21
  book because hearing him read the book too is
• 1:25:23
  an experience in and of itself that I just absolutely
• 1:25:25
  love. So thank you so much for your time. your
• 1:25:28
  kindness for your generosity and for inspiring
• 1:25:30
  many, many people. Well, let me, one more thing.
• 1:25:32
  You can get my book at altonfitzgeraldwhite .com.
• 1:25:36
  If you get it from my website, because I now
• 1:25:38
  own the rights to my book, which is a tremendous
• 1:25:39
  thing as an author, I will sign it, personalize
• 1:25:44
  it, and send it to you. Same as you would pay
• 1:25:46
  on Amazon, but you get my signature and it's
• 1:25:51
  sent to you postage free. Also, my Disney CD.
• 1:25:56
  It's available on our website. You can get a
• 1:25:57
  signed copy of that, Disney My Way, where I've
• 1:25:59
  taken these Disney songs and given them my own
• 1:26:01
  arrangements, which has been really, really fun.
• 1:26:04
  And I want to leave one last thing. Yes. No matter
• 1:26:07
  how discouraged you may get, no matter how lonely
• 1:26:10
  or isolated you ever may feel, just like Mufasa
• 1:26:13
  says to Simba in The Lion King, if you remember
• 1:26:16
  those who came before you, you will also remember
• 1:26:18
  that... Watching oh Absolutely wonderful. So
• 1:27:00
  moving. Thank you for sharing that with us. Well,
• 1:27:03
  what a great opportunity we had today to speak
• 1:27:05
  with Alton. What an inspiration that he is. And
• 1:27:10
  some things that he shared with us that honestly
• 1:27:13
  we had no idea going into it. And we appreciated
• 1:27:16
  his vulnerability and willingness to share some
• 1:27:19
  really personal things with us today. And I think
• 1:27:22
  there's a lot of lessons that can be learned
• 1:27:23
  from somebody that grew up in a really tough,
• 1:27:26
  difficult situation. grew up in the projects,
• 1:27:28
  alcoholic father, dealt with some sexual abuse,
• 1:27:32
  and yet he found a way to push past those things,
• 1:27:35
  found encouragement through mentors, through
• 1:27:39
  teachers, through people who helped him to see
• 1:27:41
  what his passion was, what he... was good at
• 1:27:45
  give him that encouragement put the work in both
• 1:27:47
  in therapy and in the work towards honing the
• 1:27:51
  craft that he was in to be Mufasa on Lion King
• 1:27:54
  in Lion King for more than 4 ,000 performances
• 1:27:57
  what an inspiration to anybody going through
• 1:27:59
  something difficult through a hard season in
• 1:28:02
  life that there is light at the end of the tunnel
• 1:28:05
  that we can Keep a positive outlook. We can accept
• 1:28:08
  the fact that things are hard and know that going
• 1:28:11
  through those things are difficult. Accept the
• 1:28:12
  emotions that come when things are really difficult
• 1:28:14
  and also have the hope for something more and
• 1:28:19
  have the hope that we can find the thing that
• 1:28:22
  continues to bring us joy and happiness. I also
• 1:28:25
  think there's so many lessons for him. from him
• 1:28:27
  in the endurance and perseverance more than 4
• 1:28:31
  000 performances in a show like lion king as
• 1:28:33
  the king mufasa really shows a great depth of
• 1:28:38
  of character of ability to endure to show up
• 1:28:43
  day after day and bring the same emotional beats
• 1:28:47
  to bring the same passion to what he was doing
• 1:28:51
  And I think one of the lessons we have there
• 1:28:52
  as well is finding moments to find other passions
• 1:28:55
  as well, to get the break, to not just have it
• 1:28:58
  become too routine. And that there's real benefit
• 1:29:04
  in that, in finding other things that you can
• 1:29:06
  come back renewed. and we really appreciate his
• 1:29:10
  time and spending with us. I strongly encourage
• 1:29:13
  you to read his book, My Pride. What a wonderful
• 1:29:16
  book it was, and it goes into far greater depth
• 1:29:18
  as to his journey that he had, both growing up
• 1:29:21
  when he was in elementary school, junior high
• 1:29:24
  school, and high school, what his journey was
• 1:29:25
  like to get to Broadway, and then throughout
• 1:29:28
  his experiences on Broadway and further lessons
• 1:29:30
  that he's learned. Again, what a joy it was to
• 1:29:33
  have him on with us. As you leave this conversation,
• 1:29:38
  remember that yes, the past can hurt and you
• 1:29:42
  can either run from it or you can learn from
• 1:29:44
  it. So here's to learning and finding joy in
• 1:29:47
  the journey. See you real soon.