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Jennifer Harshman: Morning & Evening Rituals for Writers · The Daily Writer

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Rider.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Each weekday, we bring you a short lesson that helps you live out the four practices of a great writer: creativity, consistency, courage, and connection.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Here on the weekend edition, we take a deeper dive into those topics through conversations with writers and teaching that helps us apply what we're learning.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: For more, you can visit us at dailyriderlife.com.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: If you've been listening to this podcast for a while, Jennifer Harshman is no stranger to you.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: She's been a guest a few times before, and every time she's been on the show, she has shared tons of wisdom about productivity, writing, and so much more.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Jennifer is the owner of Harshman Services, an agency that provides editing and other services to authors and publishers.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: She's also the author of the wonderful book Find a Real Editor, Avoiding the Posers and Scammers, which you can grab for free on Amazon.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Today I'm excited to have her back on the show talking about morning and evening rituals for writers.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this is a critical topic because how we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: And the quality of our days is determined in large part by the rituals that begin and end our days.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you study highly successful people, you'll usually find that they begin and end their days with specific rituals such as meditation, journaling, reading, and others.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: So Jennifer shares some of her rituals, and together we reflect on some related practices for success that are working for us right now.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: This conversation was really eye-opening for me and very insightful.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: I always learn a ton from Jennifer whenever uh I spend any time with her.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you're gonna enjoy this conversation as well and benefit from it a lot.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: So here is my conversation with the amazing Jennifer Harshman.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, Jennifer, welcome to the uh Daily Rider week uh weekly call, but also the podcast.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna use this for both things.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's glad to have you on the show slash call.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy to be here.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: So for those who are listening, uh, I probably will say this in the introduction to this episode, but this what we're doing now is going to double as a Daily Rider community call, uh, as well as a podcast episode.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: So right now it's just me and Jennifer.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is summer.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people are traveling, and our our community is is still a couple dozen people at this point.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, sometimes we have a number of people show up for the call, sometimes it's just a couple of us.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, slice it, it's always a really, really fun time.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, what we're gonna do today is talk about morning and evening routines for writers.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And Jennifer is a great person to chat about, not to chat about, you're a great person to chat with about this topic, is what I meant to say.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I know you as a uh very organized person, very well thought out in everything that you do, and very intentional.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: So uh this will be a lot of fun.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Here's why I wanted to talk about this topic.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's really because routines run our lives and our habits really shape, I think, how effective we are with our writing, with our business, with our communication and relationships.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: And when you really get down to it, our life consists of days, and how we run our days is how we really run our lives.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And our routines and our habits shape our days to such a huge extent, I think it's important to give some attention to that.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, whenever you you look at successful writers, they all have specific routines that they follow.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: But not just writers, it's also high-level business people and very successful uh actors and uh leaders and and all kinds of different people.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: So this whole idea of routines and habits, I think is is really critical.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: So um let's start out with this question, Jennifer.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: What are what are some of the routines that that you practice during your day?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then we can dig into specific morning things, evening things, or whatever, but give us just a general overview of how you think about this whole topic of routines.
• 4:14
  unknown: Okay.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: I am not, I don't feel as organized as a lot of people think that I am.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: So whenever somebody says something like that, my first thought is, hmm.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I do have some structure in place and I cope with ADHD and other issues.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: So building in some flexibility is really important.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to be great, you know, give myself some grace when I don't follow my routines to the letter.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I always want to make sure that people understand that just because we have a structure doesn't mean it's going to be perfectly followed.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Man, that is okay, right there.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's worth the whole thing right there, I think, is the the importance of giving ourselves grace.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I need to hear that because I am a I like to think I'm a highly structured person.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: In reality, I'm not as structured as I probably think I am.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know how how you function with these routines, but you kind of have a system for things, and then when you don't follow through with it exactly, you kind of beat yourself up and you're like, oh, I just let myself down, or I didn't follow this morning routine or this ritual or whatever.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you ever struggle with that of just kind of beating yourself up for it?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I do.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I do.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have to consciously fight that.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's one of the things that I I've tried to work with with my kids is that self-talk.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it really does affect everything that we do and giving yourself a little bit of grace when you know, like the cat had an emergency vet visit and there went your afternoon routine.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, things like that do happen.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have to I shouldn't I shouldn't share this story publicly, but I'm going to.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this is making myself look bad.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm laughing as you're mentioning the cat because um this has been probably like two or three years ago.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm a highly structured and task-oriented person.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes our orientation of being task-oriented and wanting to be structured, it kind of gets in the way of those relationships.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you have had that experience, but so our cat died.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a cat that we'd had for like 10 years.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: This has been a couple of years ago.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: We'd had the cat for a really, really long time.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And the cat passed away.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And in our area, uh, it's legal to bury pets in your backyard.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: I know that's super common all over the world, probably, but I wanted to make sure that was legal.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I researched it and they said it was.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, so we were just gonna bury the the cat in our backyard.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: And on that particular day that that I was gonna do that, I was in a hurry.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: I forget what was going on, but I was kind of in a hurry.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I thought my family had kind of said goodbye to the cat and so forth.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I just went outside and buried the cat in the backyard.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Okay, that's done.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, my wife came home that evening and said, Oh, did you bury the cat?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Yeah, I just already took care of it.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: And my son was really hurt by that, and it didn't even occur to me.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was so task-oriented, it didn't occur to me to for us to have a little funeral for the cat and to for him to be a part of of kind of burying the cat because I was just rushing to get through it.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm kind of ashamed to admit that, but that's true sometimes.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: We let our routines get in the way of of life, and our routines are there to serve us, not the other way around.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm probably gonna get some hate mail because of that, I'm sure.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, we all make mistakes.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: We do, we do, yeah.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: So let's go through some uh specific routines that are a part of your day.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start out with with some morning routines.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: What are some things that that you'd like to do in the morning that really help you get us get set up for success during the day?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one thing that I would like to say before I get to that is that the routine is not necessarily a schedule.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: So um it doesn't necessarily have to line up this time with this time or this event with this time.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sometimes things take longer than we expect.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I still do the same things, but sometimes they might take longer.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the first thing that I do after, of course, hitting the bathroom, all the all that typical stuff, um, I will sit down with maybe a cup of hot tea or coffee, something to drink, and a logbook or like an O-ring bound journal and a pen.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I just sit there and, you know, be open to whatever might come up as far as ideas.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, kind of like, okay, God, what do you have for me?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's my quiet time.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I'll meditate on scripture.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I'll read through.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have an orthodox prayer book, and sometimes I'll read through some orthodox prayers and then sit and do that that idea, you know, ideating is what some people will call it.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Just whatever ideas come up, I try to capture them.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then whenever it feels like, okay, the the well has run dry, I'm ready to go and implement some of these ideas.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Then I move over to my computer, my desk here, and then I start working.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: How long do you typically spend journaling, writing, you know, ideating those kinds of things?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I have an hour blocked out for it.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I will sit there that whole time, but other times I'll get an idea that I want to go and take action on.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I might cut that time short.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And do you have any particular routine that you follow when you're writing?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, like you're going to write something related to this and this and this, or is it more just a free-flowing kind of a thing?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: It depends.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if it's an idea that just came to me and I just want to get some, you know, capture my thoughts more, I might just do that free flowing.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: But usually what I do is I start with keyword research.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I go and I find my my title, my headings, all of those things, and create my outline that way.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then that gives me that structure that I need to go in and be able to write efficiently.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I know that you are working on creating journals, planners, those kinds of things, which is a huge market, by the way, for anybody who's listening.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, how many planners and journals have we all bought over the years?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've bought a ton of them.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Walk us through the the value of something like that.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: I know you have some different things that you're working on, and I'm not sure how much you want to talk about all those in detail, but I'd love to hear about those.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really, really a cool project.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen some of the stuff you've put up on on Facebook about those.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: So um, can you share a little bit about what is the value of having something like that?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And um and how hard are those to create kind of from a writing and publishing standpoint.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one, they're a lot of fun.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the value in it for a user is it helps them to structure their thinking.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: So if they have, let's say, a graphic organizer that, and let's say it's for writers and it says, here's your character development, um, you know, positive traits, negative traits, their struggles, what's their motivation?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it might be in a picture format so that they can grab a pen and fill in the different things.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it brings in parts of the brain that um using a pen trigger parts of the brain that typing on a keyboard just don't.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of people will say they feel more creative when they have a pen in their hand.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one way that it can provide value to people.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the um, as for putting them together, um, you can hand draw everything yourself, or you can use Canva or other tools like that to create your pages for your journal, or you can go to um creativemarket.com or Fiverr and purchase pre-made items.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: And if you do that, be sure that you are buying the highest level of commercial license that is available.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you buy the personal, if you buy the personal license, that is just if you want to make it just for your own personal use.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: But if you want to put it on Amazon or anywhere else and sell it, you must get a commercial license.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't want to get sued.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we want to follow the rules.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you can just put them together in um in InDesign or in Microsoft Word, and then go and you know, put them in the order you want, put some writing in there if you'd like.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you want to do some journal prompts, um, you know, whatever it is that applies to the person you're creating this book for, you'll want to put that in there to help guide them through it.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, for example, I sat down with my daughter the other day and I handed her a pile of images that I had purchased.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, put together a journal or planner for yourself.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want in yours?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, Oh my gosh, for me?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna make one for me?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because she knew I had made several for other people.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I said, Of course, I want something that you're going to love.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: So let's make this together.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so she pulled out several different images and told me what order she wanted them in.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I put those together.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was looking at it, it has not gone to my formatter yet, but when I was looking at it to make sure it was ready, I thought, you know, some of these images are very self-explanatory and some are not.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: So if someone were to look at it, they might not know what to do with it.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: So with those, I put small little images of them at the beginning, like a table of contents or a user's guide.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And said, with this image, you know, this this sheet, you'll want to do this.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so everything is in there and it will be at the front in the front matter of the book.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: So when it's on Amazon and they use the look inside feature, they'll be able to see everything they're gonna get in that planner.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's fantastic.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that can really be an important part of somebody's morning routine, just writing in one of those journals and reflecting.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever get the feeling that that sometimes in the entrepreneur world?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna pick on the entrepreneur world for a second, that there is really this culture of like you're not really legit unless you get up like crazy early in the morning, unless you go through all this like rigorous routines of things and and so forth.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: I get that feeling really heavily sometimes.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever sensed that?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Or is that just my own impression?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's false.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: I have completely sensed that.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And for a long time, that is how I lived, you know, waking between two and four in the morning and going through all of these things and making sure that I got all the boxes checked off on my list.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I mean, I've even heard of um goodness, what is Wim Hof?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is all about ice cold showers and very specifically.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: They do work things.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of people really swear by that and and structure their lives that way.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I did for a long time until um about a month or so ago when I had an autoimmune flair and my adrenal fatigue started hitting again, and I had to really back off and slow down everything and kind of take a vacation for this month.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I will probably ease back into it, but I probably won't push myself as hard as I did.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's probably a good idea because you can hear all these, you know, gurus and and entrepreneurs, and I think they're all well-intentioned, I really do.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Don't get me wrong.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: You can hear all these things about all the things, all the routines that people follow.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, man, if you put into practice all the things people are talking about, you would be spending like three hours a day in the morning.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking, okay, when do you actually get your work done?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but but I realize that these have to be adapted to you, and you you experiment and you figure out what works, and then you discard the rest.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: And there are seasons in life too.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's another thing to keep in mind.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you'll be able to go full tilt for a long time, and then other times you're going to have energy slumps, and it's good to honor our body's needs.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think so too.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's really, really important.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think about the best time for reading during the day?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, reading for personal growth or business.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's some people who say that it's better to do it in the morning, some people the evening, afternoon.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a preference on when you think is the most effective times to read?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you're learning something new or you're you're reading for personal growth, it's really good to read in the last 45 minutes of your day.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: So before you go to bed, a lot of people will read in bed, put the book down, go to sleep.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because our brains will ruminate on the last 45 minutes of our day all night long.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe that's six sleep cycles for some people.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it just goes over that and over that and over that the whole time.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times when people, you know, put good information in before they go to bed, they wake up with an idea.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it can be very productive.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: That that's really fascinating.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'd never really thought about you.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like you're feeling you're filling your.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm from Missouri, so I'm gonna mispronounce things.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like you're filling your mental well before you go to bed, and your mind is going to just reflect on all that stuff right before you go to bed.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's really fascinating.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: I never really thought about that before.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um whatever we put into our brains, whatever we focus on, like the last 45 minutes, that for some reason um tells our brain this stuff is important.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: So if we're watching the nightly news and we're seeing all sorts of mayhem and you know, negative things happening in the world, then we're going to notice that more in our lives.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: So whatever we focus on, we get more of.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I stopped watching the news a long time ago because of that, especially anything at night.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to make sure that I'm putting positive things into my mind before I go to sleep.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever heard of the five-minute journal?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do you use that yourself?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I did have one a long time ago, and I liked that.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's very accessible because it only takes a few minutes and it's something that I think people can work into their routine very easily.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: I do too.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I got one gosh, has been probably just a few weeks ago.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because in the next year and a half, I'm gonna be probably coming out with a couple of journals of my own.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to figure out what works, what would I want to include in it, etc.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I like it because literally it's just one page each, and it takes really less than five minutes.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: So five minutes, five minutes is being generous with the amount of time it actually takes.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you write down, I am grateful for, and you list three things.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: What would make today great?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: I love that question, and then some kind of daily affirmation.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Then in the evening, you talk about three amazing things that happened today, and how could I have made today even better?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: I just love that short reflection on okay, here's how I can make today great, and here's what I could have done to make today better, and and also the gratitude element.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: I find that really, really powerful.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it's no surprise that this journal is really, really popular.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a good practice is at you know, on the last day of the month, look through that month and identify patterns.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Good idea.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: You might find things that you're grateful for on a regular basis.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And have you talked to those people to let them know that you're grateful for them?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Or have you, you know, made some sort of an action to show that outwardly?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you also might find that there are patterns with things that are difficult for you too, and then you might want to address them.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Man, good point.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Really, really good point.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't see those patterns unless you go back and really look at those and pay attention to them.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's kind of like when you're watching your children grow, you don't notice the growth from day to day, you know, they're one thirty-second of an inch taller.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: But someone who hasn't seen them in a couple of months, they're like, oh my gosh, I've gotten so big.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, if we look back in big chunks like that, it can be helpful.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Something we have talked about in the last few weeks, two or three times, is um so we both, if you hear a zipper, it's because I'm unzipping uh this new binder that I got uh that I'll show you here in just a second.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, this is going to be an audio podcast, so there's not much value in like doing anything visual.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, however, both of us are big fans of Donald Miller's Business Made Simple University, which I think is a really phenomenal tool.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that you really like his Hero on a Mission course, which is all about life planning and and figuring out how to organize your day and so forth.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: I went through that recently, and I would love to hear your take on how how valuable you think those daily planner sheets are and just the overall process, because I've recently gone through it too.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm curious to hear your thoughts, and then I want to share some things that I'm doing with it as well.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because this episode is all about routines and habits and so forth, and you know, I think our our daily planning is very much a part of that whole process.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: It definitely is.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the one thing that I don't like.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: About those sheets is where it says, if you know, if I could live today again, I would, you know, what would you do differently kind of a thing?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: And he says to do that in the morning.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: And my son and I were talking about that.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, it makes more sense to us to do that section of the page in the evening when you reflect back on your day.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's the one thing that I would switch with that.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: But other than that, I love the structure, the three primary tasks.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Man, we tend to overwhelm ourselves and take on so much and commit to so much.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we want to, you know, save the world and do it all.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not possible to do it all at once.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: So when he says pick three primary tasks, that was the hardest thing for me.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I noticed for about the first week of using it that my three primary tasks were getting moved from Monday to Tuesday to I was just porting them over because I was not accomplishing them.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I almost had a crisis, a mental crisis over it because I was getting all my secondary tasks done, but not those three primaries.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And they were important things that needed to get accomplished.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was, you know, reality was staring me in the face.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, if I want to be effective, I have to get those primary tasks accomplished.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: So what I told myself was, I'm not going to list any secondary tasks until these primary tasks are done.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to allow myself to do anything until I get these three things done.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And after that, over the course of about a week, there were a couple of days when I ported those over to the, you know, one or two over to the next day, but I got much better about getting my primary tasks accomplished.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: That that's really great.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I haven't used this for very long, but I like your I like hearing that it's a struggle for you also to focus on the primary things and not the secondary things.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the primary things are those, they're scary, you know, and it's easy to avoid the big one when you have 12 small things, and those you can gain momentum with.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: You can just check them off.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'm an ADHDer and I like to see, okay, this one's done, this one's done.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: But those big ones, oh my goodness.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have to send a proposal to a client.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a scary proposition.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: What if they say no?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, whatever your big thing is, what if it goes wrong?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so that fear, even if we don't admit it, it's in the back of our mind.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: But when you put it on that paper and it stares you in the face, oh my gosh, you have you have to deal with it.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And those primary things tend to be more time consuming, I think, than this little task that will take five or 10 minutes, but it it actually has to get done, you know, like, hey, I've got to pay this bill or I've got to call this person or whatever.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Those are more satisfying immediately because you're like, okay, that took three minutes, I got it done.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: But they don't actually move the long-term ball forward.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you think that's that's an important thing for for us as writers.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter necessarily if we have our own business or if we're working on our own material.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, those things take time.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Working on a book chapter takes time.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's not something we're gonna knock out in 20 minutes, probably.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna take a big chunk of time.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: And those big chunks of time are what move the ball down the field for toward our long-term goals, but it's so easy to push them back.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'll do that tomorrow.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'll do that next year, I'll do that next decade, you know.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, especially if you don't have another person who is expecting it or is standing over you, or you know, anything like that where there's an external pressure, if it's just something that you know you need to do because of your own goals, it's so easy to just kick that can down the road.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Man, it really is.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, before I go on to some things with evening routines, I do want to share.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: So um the only thing that I don't really like about the way that those sheets are set up for that hero on a mission course from Donald Miller is that they're full-size sheets.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't like having a planner that is like a full-size thing because when you open it on your desk, it's just massive.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like, you know, a trapper keeper from the 1980s is just like this yes, massive monstrosity.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I like to have a planner that is smaller.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: I can open it up and kind of set it on my desk.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: I can look at it all the time.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I ended up doing is I took the content from those and I I changed it around a little bit, but I made some really unattractive Microsoft Word pages, and then I actually bought this binder from Amazon.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now, those who are listening can't see this, obviously.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is a it's probably I'm sure this is not real leather.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: This was like 20 bucks from Amazon.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is a half sheet size of a binder, but it's uh it's a mini three-ring binder, so and it's one inch, but it's I don't know what the sizes is, but it's a mini three-ring thing, so it's it's a lot smaller.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: I formatted it to fit that and I'll send those to you.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you could make them look far, far better than I could.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I like it because it's the same stuff, but it's but it's smaller.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think just whatever works and helps you to plan and to make progress is probably a good thing.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the best tool is the one that you will use.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I love this binder actually because it's a little bit oversized, and you can actually put a book inside of it and then zip the whole thing up and take it with you, which I know sounds super anal retentive, but that's how I roll.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that's cool.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to dive into evening routines here for for a couple of minutes.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, are there any specific things that you try to do as part of your evening routine that you find really helpful?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned reading.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Anything else that that is helpful for you as you wind down your day and prepare for the next day?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: I like to make sure I do something called closing the kitchen.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: So um that comes from my restaurant days.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, making sure that everything is clean, put where it belongs, ready to go for the next day.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some people will call it resetting the room.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: So just making sure that things are neat and organized.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I also like to play beat the clock because I don't like to let, especially household tasks, I don't like to let them take a long time.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: So think of when you were a kid and your mom's like, ready, you're gonna race the timer.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Go, how fast can you clean up your room?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: I do the same type of thing.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: And if I can clean and you know, close the kitchen within 10 minutes in the evening, then I count that as a win.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then I will go and indulge in um, you know, some like Facebook time or something like that that's not business related, just something that's just, you know, hedonistic pleasure type of a thing for a few minutes before I go into my room and go and read.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's the first time anyone has uttered the phrase hedonistic pleasure on this podcast.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's a first, I've got to say.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I thought you were talking about Burning Man there for a second.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: I've never actually been.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Just I just want to clarify I've never been to Burning Man.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: I have not seen pictures on the internet, but it looks very strange.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, plus, it just looks hot.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, since we're both from the Midwest, you know, we're recording this beginning of July.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: I have no desire to go somewhere where it's just hot.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: I want to go somewhere where it's cool.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so walk us through a little bit in more detail if you can.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: What are some things that need to take place whenever you close the kitchen?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I like that phrase.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Or what are some things that we could do to close out our day or close down the kitchen before we wind up the day?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one thing that I do is pull out any meat that needs to thaw for the next day's meals.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll pull it from the freezer and put it in the refrigerator.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: That takes just a few seconds.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then I work clockwise from the refrigerator around the rest of the room.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: So then I have a counter and that's where all of my knife blocks and some of my um small appliances are.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: I wipe all of that down.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's where my dishwasher is, and I will load the dishwasher and start it running.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'll proceed to wipe down the stove, wipe down the other counter on the other side of the room, and wipe down the sink, make sure that it's all rinsed out.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have, you know, bits of food in there that will be smelling or attracting those wonderful fruit flies that we have in this part of the country, especially this time of year.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Gotta love them.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm at the trash can, which is right by that door, and then I can take out the trash, change the liner, um, go deposit the trash into the can outside, and then I go on into um like back into my office or something where I'm gonna sit and relax for a few minutes before I move on into my room.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: See, this is so helpful because I feel like a lot of times whenever writers talk about what we do or we talk about, you know, things like routines and habits, that we focus on these sort of abstract, very esoteric ideas like we've got to do things to boost our creativity and we've gotta read and we've got to reflect, and we have to do all these sort of mental things.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: But there really is something to be said for just taking care of the practical things in our lives, like cleaning the kitchen, doing the dishes, and doing those things that help us to feel more in control and organized and neat and tidy, because I don't know about you, but like if my office is messy as it is right now, in fact, where I'm recording this, if if we have a messy environment or disorganized environment, that has a huge impact on our mindset and our creativity.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe sometimes the best thing that we can do for our writing life is to do the dishes, take out the trash.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, our inner world and our outer world are reflections of each other.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: So if one is chaotic, the other one is going to be chaotic very soon, too.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I was just reading something about this yesterday about how if you feel, you know, if you're anxious, if you deal with anxiety, depression, anything like that, and and you feel chaotic inside, take a look at your physical environment because it's probably disorganized, it might be dirty.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, take some time to clean it up, and then you can feel that inner calm as well.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and one thing like I don't do it every day, but whenever I'm pulling the meat out and throwing it into the refrigerator a couple of times a week, I will also cull any leftovers.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: So if there's anything in there that, you know, it's outdated, it needs to be thrown away, I'll take care of that at the same time.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts on like meal prepping for a whole week?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: I know that's a that's a popular thing to do.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Whenever, whenever I have done it, it works really well.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do it very often.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: But do you do anything like that?
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you know people who do and and kind of what the effect of something like that might be?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, on Sunday afternoons, usually is when I will do that, or sometimes when we do like our monthly grocery shopping.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: My husband will go and do the shopping.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone will help to bring it in.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: And rather than just okay, this needs to go into the freezer, you know, like say it's a flat of chicken breasts, instead of putting it into the freezer, I'm gonna throw it into the oven with whatever seasonings and start it cooking right then.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Anything that I can get cooking that we can batch cook and use during the coming week, I will do that instead of putting away the groceries, they go straight into the oven.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then that saves so much time through the week.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we have our pre-cooked entree, and then maybe we pull a bag of frozen Brussels sprouts out and roast them in the oven or steam them on top of the stove.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, something that's fairly quick and easy.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I also like things that can go in a crock pot or can go in the oven with a timer because standing over a stove and cooking is not going to happen, not with my fibromyalgia body.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: That makes a lot of sense.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: We bought an Instapot um last year.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't used it that much, honestly.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: But what we have used a four, I've been super impressed with what it does.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: I love the slow cook function on that.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we we do so many soups.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I don't use recipes per se, like a quarter teaspoon of cumin.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, uh-uh.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Just give it a shake.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we'll just throw a lot of stuff in and set it to cook and walk away.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: So for most meals, it's two or three minutes worth of prep time and then let it sit.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I love that.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: See, this is the practical stuff that I feel like writers don't often talk about.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about all the abstract and high-level kinds of things and storytelling and blogging and uh content and everything, but but this is the kind of stuff that actually runs our life, you know, and how we get things done.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and sometimes I feel that uh that what we miss whenever we're looking at kind of the influencers and the big names and and stuff, I think a lot of times we we miss the fact that they often have assistance and people who are doing a lot of this stuff for them.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if they've developed a big successful business, they have earned the right to do that, obviously.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for most of us, though, we're not at that level, probably.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: We can't hire all these people to help us and whatnot.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we kind of have to do it ourselves.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: And not that there's anything wrong with that, of course, but this is part of life and part of being organized and structured, and that does have a big impact on our mindset and our energy and just our feeling of being in control and getting organized.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, this has been this conversation went a whole different direction than what I thought it was going to, but it's gone in a much better and more practical direction.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, so I appreciate you sharing all this.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: This is fantastic.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: My pleasure.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Anytime.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Jennifer.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: I learned a ton, as I always do, from all of my guests.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: And Jennifer, of course, is no exception because she's always full of wisdom and insight about whatever it is that we're talking about.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: I would say my biggest takeaway from this conversation is the idea that we must give ourselves grace when we are trying to work with rituals and routines in our lives.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we go through different phases in our lives, we go through different seasons each year.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, our routines and our schedules and our family life changes from year to year and from season to season.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes from day to day and week to week, let's just be honest.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Particularly when you're self-employed like Jennifer and I are, and we have times when our client work is crazy and times when it slows down and all kinds of different things happening, as I'm sure you do as well.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Life is always in flux and we've got to give ourselves grace.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: If you are a particularly scheduled, like a highly scheduled person, if you've got to have all your ducks in a row and you've got to have everything perfectly aligned, like I sometimes feel like I need to do, then it becomes easy to get frustrated by our lack of perfection in this area.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: But remember, the rituals and routines are there to serve you, not the other way around.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: And just because you hear some guru in some book or some podcast or something talking about their, you know, 87 rituals they do every day, and you know, they get up at 1 a.m.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: and they get 30 minutes of sleep every day.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes, um, well, one thing, honestly, I'm not sure I believe half of what I hear from all the gurus for one thing.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: But second of all, their life is not your life.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to do what works for you.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I encourage you, and I'm gonna challenge myself, to just begin experimenting slowly with some of the rituals and routines that we talked about.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it involves doing five minutes of journaling a day.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it involves uh waking up a little bit early and earlier and doing a meditation.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it involves getting one of Jennifer's journals that, like she talked about in this episode, uh, particularly if you struggle with stress or other kinds of things.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: So just try some different things, experiment and find out what works for you.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, again, I had a blast having Jennifer on this uh on this episode, and I was it was so much fun to engage with her in this really important conversation.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: I want to challenge you to grab her book called Find a Real Editor, Avoiding the Posers and Scammers, because you will learn a ton about editing, and you can get it for free, so there's no reason not to grab it.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's a link in the show notes to get that from Amazon.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: That is a free ebook, so again, make sure and grab that.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I just want to say if you need an editor, connect with Jennifer.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: She's wonderful.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: She is editing my next book that'll be out, that'll be coming out this fall.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: She's great, and I think you'll really enjoy working with her.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, Jennifer, thanks so much again for being a guest on this episode.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we will also have all of Jennifer's social links in the show notes so you can check those out.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening to today's episode.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you've been listening to this show for any length of time, you know that one of the four practices of a great writer is creativity.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: And in order to stay creative, you've got to have great input.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where writing prompts come in.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: A writing prompt is a sentence or two that helps you break through creative blocks, brainstorm new ideas, and get back into a state of flow.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: Writing prompts are an awesome creative tool for journaling, storytelling, creative writing, stress relief, social media posts, and so much more.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: But the great news is that you don't have to create these yourself.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: We've put together an amazing package of 365 daily writing prompts.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: So every day for the next year, you can have a shot of inspiration delivered straight to your inbox.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: You can check it out at dailywriterlife.comslash writing prompts.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, and I'll see you tomorrow.