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Shapiroworld by Strictly Business · Strictly Business Podcast

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You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams.
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It's Monday so it's time for Shapiro World with David Shapiro from SaaS and
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Securities in Johannesburg.
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David in the old days when things weren't as sophisticated and instantaneous as they
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are today,
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when the bond market went down in other words the yields went up, what did
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equities do?
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Please tell me.
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They plunged.
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They plunged.
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I mean it was a very scary situation.
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Why?
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All right.
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because it means that interest rates are going up.
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You're going to have to pay more to borrow money.
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You're going to have to pay more for your bond or for your HP contract, whatever it
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is, for your motor car.
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Therefore, it takes away money from you.
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Therefore, you spend less.
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Therefore, profits fall.
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Therefore, the market and economy come under pressure.
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Beautifully described, David.
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Which is still the situation.
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Okay, now I'm looking at the US 10-year, and it got to something like 4.63% earlier
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today.
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and two months ago, it was 3.99%.
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Now, I think to myself, that's a big move.
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You think, okay, it's gone from 4 to 450, say.
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Let's broaden it out a bit, or rather round it up and down a little bit.
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But 50 divided,
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what's 50 basis points as a percentage of 400 basis points, David?
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What's 50?
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I can't work it out.
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You're very good at that.
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It's 12 and a half.
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Sorry?
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So you've gone from 4% to 12.5%, isn't it?
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It's a 12.5% move in a bond market, which is the biggest in the world.
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I mean, equities are massive, but the bond market is bigger than the equity market.
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So I got this sort of theory that, yeah, just like you said, bonds go down, the
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yields go up,
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therefore equities come down.
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Do they move the bonds first because they're more difficult to get out of or
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the other way around?
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I don't know.
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But there's a disconnect now because I see the S&P slightly higher.
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I mean, it's close to all-time record highest.
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What's going on here?
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No one can understand it.
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I think there are two it's almost parallel universes, two separate planets that
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people are trading on.
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And the one is the equity market is now dictated,
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dominated by the AI theme, but market by fears of
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Exactly what you're saying.
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Economic, not stagnation, but growth slowing down dramatically, rates going up.
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So it's very hard to measure the two.
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And I must admit that when I woke up this morning and Mr.
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Trump was, you know, putting out his late night messages and he said, you know,
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with more threats and the oil prices kicked up, I said, OK.
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And in fact, I went into a meeting this morning with that.
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I said, okay, look.
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We've had a very good run in AI.
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The whole theme is strong.
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It's given us very good returns.
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Just brace yourself for a bit of settling.
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Just brace yourself for the other side of the market now taking control of the bond
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market and concerns
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about what's going to happen to the economy.
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And I was literally braced for a sell-off.
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In fact, I said to, in our own internal meeting, amongst my little team, I said,
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you know what?
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If you feel that you want to take clients out of some NVIDIA and you want to
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downgrade these a little bit, do it.
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In other words, I don't know what you're going to do with the cash, but you can sit
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on the sidelines for this.
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So I really thought that we were in for a period where we're going to start seeing a
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sell-off.
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As you mentioned,
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with the 10-year bond going above 4.5, I thought, okay, there's going to be a
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level.
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at which people react.
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And here we are.
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As I look now, the S&P is up 0.16 and the Nasdaq up 0.15.
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That's green.
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You know, they're in the green.
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That's because the oil price has turned around, you see.
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The oil price was 111 plus this morning.
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And now it's below 109.
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I mean, it doesn't sound like much, but I mean, it's sort of a reversal.
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It's still extraordinarily high.
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And I had a really good chat with an oil man on Friday.
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and explained in cold, hard facts, David, numbers, and not pronouncements from
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Trump.
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He put the numbers on the table and he said, you know, the reserves were getting
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to,
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he didn't call it the bottom of the barrel.
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He had another phrase for it, a very neat phrase.
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Anyway, essentially the bottom of the barrel when it comes to international
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reserves, you know, like China, for example,
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had 100 days left, and Japan had this amount.
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etc and the world stocks are now at their lowest level for 10 years once it's at the
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bottom of the barrel then you've got problems
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then you're going to 130 to 150 and it'll stay there until something happens but he
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says do be ready for one day when somebody
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of some consequence says the straight of hormuz is now open and then you've got you
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know
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dozens and dozens of tankers going out and then prepare yourself for a collapse but
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in the
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meanwhile he said 130 to 150 not beyond the realms of possibility.
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And that's pretty scary.
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I can't argue with you.
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And you can see it.
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There's a reaction.
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There is a reaction.
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You know, Trump's popularity is hitting rock bottom.
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You know, the polls that are coming out now, how's he handling the economy?
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How's he handling the war?
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You know, the numbers are plunging.
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I just want to say on the other side, when you look at the people's views of the
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Democratic Party, those are even...
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lower.
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But nevertheless, he hasn't got support.
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People are feeling this very much, the oil price at these current levels.
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It might not be expressed on Broadway,
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might not be expressed in the restaurants in New York, whatever it is.
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But I think for most people, whether it's in the Midwest or in certainly other
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states,
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are feeling it very hard.
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You said that you read a couple of the messages that Trump put out overnight.
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It's always fascinating.
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I mean, you can wake up at six in the morning, he's still writing, obviously
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because of the time difference.
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But I want to read you something now from my favourite anti-Trumper.
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And okay, she's biased, but on the other hand, she's a good writer.
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Today was a very strange and disturbing day, she says, for the President of the
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United States of America.
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In between golfing at his course in Virginia, Trump National Golf Club, and
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relaxing inside the White House.
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Donald Trump spent hour after hour on this Sunday afternoon posting bizarre and
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deeply disturbing content
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on social media.
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What he shared over the course of the day would have necessitated immediate
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intervention in any other presidency.
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They were that alarming.
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His increasingly erratic posts included pictures of him walking beside an alien,
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incoherent ramblings,
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increasingly unhinged displays of aggression, and even a fake image of a
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deceased...
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President Biden floating in sewage.
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And as grotesque as that was, he also shared fake pictures of himself floating
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in a spaceship above the planet,
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launching nuclear weapons, while large sections of the planet exploded beneath
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him.
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So when I read this, when I read this, I thought I've got to have a look.
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So I had to look at this site that copies Truth Social.
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And sure enough, there's a picture of him with all the security guards around and
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at an Air Force base coming out of a hangar or something.
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And beside him is an alien, you know, the typical alien with the big eyes and, you
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know,
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the jumpsuit with the V pattern on it.
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He's in shackles, this poor alien.
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But Trump is walking next to him.
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And I thought, no.
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What's the purpose of this?
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What is that?
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And then the one with the spaceship.
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He's in the spaceship and he's got his hand on a big red button and it says
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target destroyed underneath.
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and there's a There's a mushroom cloud coming up from Earth, but he's in the
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spaceship.
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He's obviously just nuked China or something.
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Doesn't someone say, Mr.
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President, maybe we should take this one down?
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It's all good fun and everything, and your MAGA supporters don't care.
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But I really think that President Xi is probably just giggling.
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He's just playing around on AI.
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He's just having fun.
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Yeah, that's what he does.
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He's obviously got somebody with him.
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He says, look, I want an alien.
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picture and they do it for him because I don't think he's clever enough to
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manipulate AI to his advantage in that regard or what he sees as
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his advantage but David that's disturbing isn't it he's a nut job as he would say
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I'm no doubt he's the president he's the president of the United States so
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anyway the oil price has come back a bit and therefore the stocks are up and the
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bonds are recovering somewhat but there's a
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definite theme It's not racing away.
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It's not one of those horrible sort of periods you have where you get a 10% fall
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here and 5% there.
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It's doing it gradually.
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But who's right on this occasion, the bond traders or the equity traders or both?
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No, no.
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Look, you can't there's money going in.
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I try to think about it.
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I think what happened is that probably at the end of the year or into the new year.
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I think maybe a lot of investors were short of AI stocks, had gone out of it,
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sold out,
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and were caught on the wrong side, suddenly realizing that things could
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happen in this area.
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A lot of money is going in that maybe they should just pile in, you know,
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and perhaps that's what's driven it up.
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You know, Lindsay, in any market, we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow.
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You know, you've got to play this.
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Very carefully, you've got to keep your eye on the ball or keep your eye on the
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screen, read what's coming out.
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And each time, each, you know, each bit of information,
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you've got to digest and understand and analyze and decide where you're going to
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go.
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And, you know, this morning, and I must say, having had a very, very good run,
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and by very good run, I mean we were down 6% the S&P when the war broke out.
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And, you know, you're up now, what, 6% or 7%.
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So there's been almost, I think, about a 15% turnaround in the market.
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Now, 15% in a year is superb.
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Yes.
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It's it's it's Your bond rates, as you mentioned, are 4.5%.
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That's your gauge.
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You know, you might add a bit of a premium for it for taking risk and so on.
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But, you know, if we can produce regularly 10% to 15%, that's incredible.
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You never set the bar that high for, you know, consistent performance.
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And therefore, you've got to understand.
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You know, we've got to understand that.
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So that's why even this morning I was in a state where I said, okay, you know what,
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you can take some.
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You can take some profit if you want to.
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Is that the first time you've said that, David, to your team?
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Yes, yes.
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You know, it's the first time
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I just felt looking at the oil price and seeing that there's no end
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to the war and that it could prolong.
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I was expecting some kind of backlash.
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I could be wrong now.
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You know, I'm just looking now and saying, okay, what did I do wrong?
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We haven't done anything.
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I left it to their discretion for each one of their clients, but you give guidance,
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especially companies like NVIDIA where you're up in the four digits,
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almost thousands of percents from a few years ago.
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You've got to recognize this.
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My point is, Lindsay, I don't know what to do with the money.
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I could just leave it there.
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You put it in cash because cash rates are rising all the time, I suppose.
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I mean, if you get the right instrument, then at least it gives you something.
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But there is the opportunity cost, of course.
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I had a very interesting chat, which we've covered with Viv, you and I, about
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concentration risk,
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the concentration of certain stocks.
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But in the United States, again, I keep using the word auxiliary, the auxiliary
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stocks.
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It's like when you… When an airport gets built, for example, you say, oh, we'd
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better buy the airport company.
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Yeah, that's all well and good.
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But why don't you buy some land outside the airport or buy a hotel company because
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those hotels
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are going to spring up all over the place.
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So you've got to think laterally.
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And that's the point about the concentration risk.
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It provides opportunities elsewhere.
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On the JSC.
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I don't see where it is unless you buy the pick and shovel companies that provide
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the services to the miners, because JSC has a concentration risk as well, hasn't
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it?
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Yeah.
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In fact, the JSC is becoming more and more difficult,
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more and more difficult to make any kind of money.
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It's funny.
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I had clients sending me a debate between Pitfellion and Magnus Haystack.
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Five years ago, apparently, you know,
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Magnus has been very vocal about taking money offshore and quite aggressive about
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it.
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I don't fully agree with the way that he said it.
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It was more politically motivated than investment motivated.
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I've never held that attitude.
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I've always said, look, there are better opportunities.
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Let's go that way if there's something inside.
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To be fair, if you poke Magnus, and I speak to him regularly, if you poke him,
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he'll start having a go at the ANC.
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But he also comes out with the numbers.
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He's a very passionate man.
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He also comes out with the numbers.
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If you'd have put your money offshore 20 years ago, this is how much you'd be worth
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in US dollars if you'd stuck to the JSC.
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And he gives another figure.
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And it's very compelling, isn't it?
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Yes, it is.
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But you've got to make up your own mind where you go.
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And investment, there is no one solution.
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Lindsay, I keep saying cynically, I'm saying,
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I'm sure there are people who have bought a plumber in outer Mongolia and are making
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a lot of money, you know,
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or someone in Kansas City has got somebody who's selling cards on a corner or
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something like that.
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So there's always, always opportunities and new businesses and so on.
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You've got to have the right kind of people who dig these out and so on.
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You know, for me, I take the easy way out.
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I read headlines, I do my reading and I make decisions.
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But the point I was going to make is that coming back to the JSC,
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it must be that Pitt has outmaneuvered Magnus.
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That's going to create a lot of, oh, South Africa, there's opportunities.
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No, there aren't.
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You know, they're not.
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It's a very narrow, difficult market.
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And I think at this point, as results keep coming out,
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we're seeing the difficulties that South African companies are experiencing.
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You know, you just have to go through the numbers now and you'll see how difficult
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it is to make money here.
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You know, they're doing okay.
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But there's no great returns that you can make with the economy under this
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pressure.
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And also, these results haven't discounted that the oil price is picking up.
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Inflation is going to be, I don't know, it's coming up next week, this week, I
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think, sometime.
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Inflation will be closer to four than it is to three and so on.
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And while companies outside might be doing okay, you know,
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the bulletins and those who are benefiting from the high oil price, I think generally
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here, this is a tough economy.
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in which to make money.
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So come back to that.
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You know, you've been saying it all the time, I think, or the same thing.
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It's very difficult.
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It is difficult.
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I'm just looking at the winners on the JSC today.
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We Buy Cars up 6%, Harmony up 4.4%.
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Yeah, but that's not the full story.
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Boxer up 3.25%, Data Tech up 2.5%, and Pan African Resources up 2.3%.
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Very different companies for a change.
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Okay, there's two diggers there and the rest are, I don't know why.
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boxer i understand as well because i mean this is this is uh the low end of the
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market it's serving when i say the low end i'm not being
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disparaging i'm a lower income end of the market is what i'm what i'm trying to say
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there but you've got to look at their their
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performance this year you know we buy cars is down this year is down okay if i take
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the six percent away
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it's down about 15 or 16 percent this year so
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and it's a company that's uh it's it's quite interesting because we've got
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this...
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flood of cheap Chinese cars that have made their way onto the market,
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which are disrupting the market because you don't have to go buy a secondhand car.
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You can buy a brand new Chinese car for less than you would buy a secondhand
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Toyota or a secondhand Volkswagen.
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So the whole market is being disrupted.
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I'm not quite sure why the market responded to their numbers the way it did.
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You know, that's how things work here.
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There's a lot of trading around here.
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But I mean, if you look at the pure numbers, there's concern.
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There's concern about what lies ahead, which of the boxer as well.
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Boxer had good numbers, but you want to see pick and pay is where we're worried
18:01
about, very concerned.
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So boxers become one of the few places that you can put your money.
18:05
But, I mean, take boxer away.
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You don't want to buy pick and pay.
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You don't want to buy spa.
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You don't want to buy any of the other grocers.
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What did you think of pick and pay when they… appointed Sean Summers as CEO again.
18:18
It is Sean Summers, isn't it?
18:20
Yes.
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He's a tough man and he knows what he has to do, but this is becoming harder than he
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even thought so.
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He said five years.
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It's going to be longer than that.
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And the fact now that they're coming out and finding huge concerns,
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they're trying to re…
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And they're facing a big strike simply because they're trying to renegotiate
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their payment structures,
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which means dealing with the unions.
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And they want to cut back on weekend time and a whole lot of other issues.
18:58
And once you start doing that and tampering around with labor, which, yes,
19:02
will make them more efficient and should have been done a long time ago, but you're
19:08
going to get a backlash from the unions.
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Because whenever you want to do something new, They're going to oppose it.
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So they're under pressure.
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And obviously, it exposes that maybe their losses are going to be a lot greater.
19:20
You can buy pick and pay for nothing.
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If you take their share in Boxer out, you're buying the ramp of pick and pay for
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nothing.
19:28
That's interesting, isn't it?
19:29
I think a negative value, yeah.
19:31
Yeah, you mentioned that the other day.
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I don't know how that works when you're considering the amount of their
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distribution centers and the property.
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Can you imagine how much the property is worth that Pick and Pay has, whether
19:41
people want to buy it or not?
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I don't know.
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But, I mean, on paper, it must be worth an awful lot of money.
19:46
You see, there are a lot of shopping centers around.
19:50
And what's happening, you're finding that many of the big stores, chain stores,
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are cutting back on the rent.
20:00
So it's a big issue.
20:03
It's like banks.
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I saw a feature in the UK about banks.
20:06
They've now got these hubs for people like me.
20:09
Well, you used to like to go to banks.
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You know, I like to go into a bank, get some money, say hello, how are you, and
20:16
that sort of thing.
20:18
They now have banking hubs on the high street where all the banks are
20:21
represented.
20:23
And you can go there and you can do basic banking, you know, for people that aren't
20:27
familiar with tech,
20:29
mainly elderly people.
20:31
The high street has changed drastically.
20:33
Banks have closed down.
20:36
In England, and gosh, I've got to be careful what I say now,
20:40
but it's lots of little shops selling cell phones and selling this and that and
20:46
doing,
20:47
in many cases, doing naughty things as well.
20:49
But the point is that the high street is a thing of the past and it's in a
20:55
Cotswold town where there are tourists everywhere and it's thriving.
21:00
So it's, yeah, and if you'd picked that up a while ago, you would have done well.
21:04
I see it in New York.
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So your main street,
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those areas that you thought would always, you know, that you got on Monopoly, you
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know,
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the names of the streets on Monopoly are no longer that.
21:21
You don't want to have a hotel on those streets anymore.
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Regent Street or Oxford Road, whatever, you know, Oxford Street.
21:28
You don't want that anymore.
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But I see it in New York, the Upper West Side where we are,
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there's huge retail space now available.
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So a lot of the mom and pop stores, a lot of the restaurants, the whole dynamics
21:44
have changed.
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And even Midtown, you know, in the mid areas where the office blocks were,
21:51
people are no longer working in the office or they're restricting it so they don't go
21:55
for lunch anymore.
21:57
So you've seen a lot of restaurants closed down.
21:58
So you can find space in New York.
22:03
There's a huge amount of retail space available.
22:06
Yes, there might be specific areas where tourists gather now that you want to be.
22:10
But overall, Manhattan's a big place.
22:14
You can find plenty of rentals around there.
22:19
And the shops, no one wants shops anymore.
22:23
There's a place I go to where we're close to where Whole Foods is called.
22:28
uh columbus circle yes and uh there's a shopping center across there which when we
22:34
first started going to new
22:36
york was dynamic vibrant now there's so much retail space in there it's it's there
22:41
are a few
22:41
restaurants that actually make it but i mean overall
22:44
it's there's as much retail space in that area um that you want just no one wants to
22:51
go there so you you'll find
22:53
shake shack hamburger places or eating places and that but uh Other than that,
22:58
plenty around.
23:00
Whether South Africa is ready for that yet, I don't know,
23:04
given the nature of the demographic and the socioeconomic situation in the
23:10
country,
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whether shops are going to disappear quickly.
23:15
Will electric cars take off?
23:16
No, of course they won't, not at the moment.
23:20
If you put an electric charging station in South Africa, and again, I'm not...
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I've got to be careful what I say,
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probably might get ripped off quite quickly because of the value of the
23:34
materials inside
23:36
the charging thing.
23:38
Anyway, David, did you take the advice that you gave to your team?
23:43
Have you taken some money off the table?
23:44
No.
23:45
So you gave the advice but didn't take it.
23:47
No, I thought about it.
23:50
And the fact that it didn't happen has kind of made me a bit… Okay, we'll hold
23:56
back a bit.
23:58
I think it is going to happen.
23:59
You know, we've got NVIDIA's results on Wednesday after market close on the 20th.
24:05
And I always get worried in that because analysts set the bar so high
24:12
that sometimes it's almost impossible to beat.
24:15
So I'm not quite sure what's going to come out of it, you know, whether they will
24:20
beat.
24:21
analyst expectation.
24:23
They have to be spectacular, won't they, to make any impact?
24:25
You got, yeah, I know.
24:27
Which is impossible, you know, because as the base gets bigger and bigger, it
24:34
becomes harder and harder to meet those requirements.
24:36
But it might be happening.
24:38
I don't know.
24:40
The market at the moment suggests, yes, it's going to be positive because there
24:43
hasn't been any major sell-off.
24:45
But we'll see, you know, we'll see what kind of mood the market's in and analysts
24:50
are in.
24:52
But I think we're getting, I'm not getting scared because I still think there's a lot
24:57
happening, a lot happening on the energy side.
24:59
But I do worry about the other side of the, you know, the side that you've been
25:02
talking about.
25:04
And somewhere along the line, I'm scared this is going to bite us.
25:06
And I also get scared that if people are waiting for data, then the data in the
25:12
next two to three months is going to be the real story that
25:14
we're seeing playing out now, i.e.
25:15
the average oil price over the last, even if it's over the last month has been 98,
25:21
99, 102,
25:23
whatever it's going to be.
25:25
Then you say to yourself, wait a second, this is going to come through to CPI and
25:26
PPI.
25:26
We saw a big PPI jump in America from 0.5% to 1.4%.
25:31
It nearly tripled.
25:33
From the month of March to April year on year, which is really big stuff, actually,
25:39
percentage-wise, off a very, very low base.
25:41
David, final question.
25:43
What did you read over the weekend?
25:45
Anything juicy or still the same stuff?
25:46
There's nothing to read.
25:48
I must admit I get incredibly bored because it's all around the same subject.
25:54
You know, warnings about what we've been talking about, a lot of concerns about
26:00
Trump. You know,
26:02
it's negative, And The Economist showed a picture of, you know,
26:07
their cartoon, Kel, K-A-L, cartoon of Trump talking to Xi,
26:12
and he had all kinds of flies around him.
26:16
He was surrounded by flies.
26:18
And I thought, hold on a sec, you know, you better start looking close to home.
26:25
You know, UK politics isn't exactly stable.
26:28
No, do you know what it is?
26:30
I said to myself, you know, in my very frivolous sort of way, I said to people,
26:35
or I may have even sent it out on Twitter or something, I said,
26:38
can you imagine Britain being run by a prime minister called Wes or Andy?
26:46
Some sort of bloke down the pub or something.
26:52
When I think of a new prime minister, any leader of any country, I say to myself,
26:57
I'd like to see you on the international stage with proper diplomats,
27:01
with career diplomats and career politicians.
27:05
Would you stand up?
27:07
I don't know that any of the people in Britain that I look at, I just see
27:13
mediocrity and bad suits.
27:16
This is the 4th PM.
27:20
I thought PML had been as many years.
27:22
It's like Chelsea and their managers.
27:24
It's like a revolving door.
27:27
I see Xavi Alonso.
27:28
Let's get on to football now.
27:29
Xavi Alonso is going to Chelsea.
27:31
And what I like about that move, because my family supports Chelsea, and God bless
27:37
them, they've had a terrible time.
27:39
I said gloating.
27:40
But he has said he wants to be the manager, not the coach.
27:44
He wants to be on the committee that recruits.
27:48
You know they've got six recruitment directors at Chelsea, David.
27:51
Six.
27:53
And they buy a young player for 15 and they sell him for 25.
27:57
That's what they want to do.
27:58
They just want to make money, this Blue Coat bunch.
28:01
But Xavi Alonso says, yeah, I'm interested, but these are the terms.
28:05
I'm in charge, not you.
28:06
And good, Chelsea will do well over that.
28:09
If they stick to it, if they stop interfering and allow him to do so,
28:16
otherwise he just walks out and so on.
28:18
But I think...
28:20
That kind of interference, killer club.
28:22
It did it in Man United.
28:24
You know, I mean, I watched them play.
28:25
They were okay.
28:26
I still think they've got a lot to do.
28:30
I enjoyed the pace of the game.
28:33
Yes.
28:34
But I hope, you know, you want the big clubs to be big.
28:39
If we look, go look at the league at the moment, and it does say something.
28:45
against the big clubs because I think you've got Aston Villa.
28:49
Aston Villa, it's an old club,
28:51
but I don't think it's a big club in the sense that they've spent millions and
28:57
billions, whatever it is.
28:59
It's a Birmingham club.
29:01
Birmingham, not a huge centre.
29:03
I haven't been there for years, but you've got Wolves there as well.
29:07
You've got Wolves, you've got Nottingham Forest, Coventry now.
29:11
Gosh, who else?
29:12
As you said, Aston Villa, Birmingham City, that was owned by Tom Brady from the
29:19
United States.
29:21
There's about six quite big clubs there, or sort of medium-sized clubs,
29:24
vying for attention in that very large conurbation, which is what Birmingham is.
29:30
I mean, West Brom, for example.
29:31
When I think of West Brom, I think of Birmingham.
29:33
And sure, but it's a massive, massive...
29:36
urban spread, David.
29:38
Why did we get on to Birmingham anyway?
29:40
Just to say, who's coming number six, seven and eight?
29:44
Bournemouth.
29:45
What's it?
29:46
Bournemouth, Brighton.
29:47
Brentford.
29:48
And Brentford.
29:49
Yes.
29:50
Can you believe it?
29:50
Brentford at 20.
29:52
My son was there.
29:53
He's there for the Arsenal match tonight from Australia.
29:56
Yesterday he booked a ticket.
29:57
He went to watch Brentford versus Crystal Palace.
30:02
He says it was a wonderful family affair.
30:05
But there are only, what, 20,000, 25,000 people there.
30:08
He enjoyed it.
30:09
But they're coming out.
30:11
You know, they're way above Spurs.
30:14
They're way above Chelsea.
30:15
They're way who else are they above?
30:19
Newcastle.
30:20
They're all above these companies.
30:21
And you've got Bournemouth and Brighton.
30:23
Yes.
30:24
I mean, two coastal towns.
30:26
They're known for their boardwalks, not for football clubs.
30:30
Yes.
30:33
Anyway, that's Oh, I mean, yeah, it says something.
30:36
You get a decent manager.
30:37
You get a little bit of a budget and you get a good recruitment policy, which
30:42
Bournemouth have.
30:44
You know the capacity of Bournemouth's ground?
30:45
I don't know what it's called, the ground.
30:47
It used to be called something, but now it's changed.
30:49
It's sponsored by somebody.
30:52
But it's 11,000, David.
30:55
Bournemouth's capacity, 11,000.
30:58
They probably could get 20,000 every two weeks for a home game.
31:03
But sure.
31:03
Only 11,000.
31:05
This is out.
31:06
I don't know where they get their money from.
31:08
Anyway, David, Arsenal-Burnley tonight.
31:10
It's got to be a win, hasn't it?
31:12
A comfortable win.
31:13
It's got to be a win.
31:13
3-4-0.
31:14
You never know.
31:15
You never know.
31:17
You never know what happens.
31:18
You never know whether nerves overcome the teams.
31:23
Burnley have got nothing to play for, so therefore they can play with a gay
31:27
abandoned.
31:29
Who knows?
31:31
That's a phrase you don't hear very often these days for obvious reasons.
31:34
But I know what you mean.
31:35
You know what?
31:36
I must tell you something, Lindsay.
31:38
While we've been talking here, what's quite incredible is that
31:50
we were talking about the market.
31:51
And I was saying that the S&P was up.
31:53
And so two minutes later now, the S&P is down three quarters of a percent and the
31:59
S&P is down a quarter percent.
32:01
And the oil price has gone from just below 109 to now just below 110.
32:04
It's rallied a dollar.
32:05
In the old days, a dollar.
32:06
A dollar in the oil price.
32:07
That's big news.
32:09
So suddenly we're now in negative territory.
32:11
Just talking.
32:15
Okay, David, thank you very much.
32:17
That was good fun and very insightful as well.
32:19
David Shapiro is from Assessment Securities, and that was Shapiro World.
32:22
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