Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 44, Season 2: The Psychology of Being a Lion with Sean Whalen

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Episode 44, Season 2: The Psychology of Being a Lion with Sean Whalen · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Love Doc podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: I'm your co host Randa Butcher here with our host,
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: doctor Sarah Hinsley, the founder and CEO of the Love
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Doc relationship coaching services. You can find her at the
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: lovedoc dot com or on any social media handle at
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: doctor Sarah Hensley.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Hi, friend, Hey, how are you. I'm good. I'm very good.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Good, feeling good about today and feeling great about our guests.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: Yes, I'm so excited about our guests today.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: We've been looking forward to you. Sean, So, Sean Whalen
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: is here today with us. Shawn is an entrepreneur, speaker,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: an author who is best known for his brand and
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: movement centered on personal responsibility, masculinity and living unapologetically. And
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: that brand is Lyon's not Cheap. Sewan, thank you so
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: much for being here. We are super excited. Yes, thank
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: you for chat with you.
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: Thanks for having me.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, just tell us a little bit to start
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: about your journey, how you created lines not sheep? And
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: really just you know where you are in terms of
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: your personal development?
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: How long do we have to answer that question? I
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: just tell people, look Google, meet you figure it out.
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: But yeah, whon is that sheep?
• 1:17
  Speaker 5: Came to me after my first divorce, and it was
• 1:21
  Speaker 5: in a really dark period of time of my life,
• 1:24
  Speaker 5: and a lot of people don't know this, but it
• 1:26
  Speaker 5: was just a mantra that I wrote on my bathroom mirror,
• 1:28
  Speaker 5: and like it came to me one day and it
• 1:30
  Speaker 5: just it's one of those things that was just bouncing
• 1:32
  Speaker 5: around in my head and I couldn't get rid of it,
• 1:34
  Speaker 5: and I ended up writing it on my bathroom mirror,
• 1:36
  Speaker 5: and it just became kind of a whole philosophy for me,
• 1:39
  Speaker 5: Like I lived my life doing it this way, doing
• 1:42
  Speaker 5: what I was told, checking the boxes, and then I
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: really wasn't sure who I was, what I was doing,
• 1:48
  Speaker 5: why I was really here, And it just became a
• 1:51
  Speaker 5: very simple reality for me. And I started sharing it
• 1:55
  Speaker 5: on social media and it grew and grew and grew,
• 1:58
  Speaker 5: and then I've had I had a post after my
• 2:01
  Speaker 5: divorce go viral, and that's kind of where everything kicked
• 2:04
  Speaker 5: off with the following and the book and the movement
• 2:07
  Speaker 5: and the whole thing. So it's been it's been quite
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: an extraordinary journey, Like I've been really really blessed over
• 2:12
  Speaker 5: the last thirteen fourteen years to travel the world, meet
• 2:17
  Speaker 5: hundreds of thousands of people have over a billion views
• 2:20
  Speaker 5: in my videos, so it's been an extraordinary, extraordinary journey
• 2:24
  Speaker 5: one I'm super grateful for.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: I want to know more about your book titled Make
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Shit Happen, How to Make How to Make Shit Happen?
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, tell us a little bit more about
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: that and just the premise of it, which is pretty
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: self explanatory, but I want to know more.
• 2:41
  Speaker 5: So I had wanted to write a book, and I
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: had been thinking about all these ideas and about divorce
• 2:47
  Speaker 5: and about being, you know, a dad, and all of
• 2:49
  Speaker 5: these other things. And I had a conversation with my
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: friend and mentor one day and I said, I don't
• 2:54
  Speaker 5: know what direction to go. I just felt called to
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: write and I love to write. And he said, if
• 2:59
  Speaker 5: you could leave one message with the world, what would
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: it be. And it was one of those like God
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: moments where my brain just kind of exploded and I
• 3:06
  Speaker 5: just saw the whole thing. So what's funny is from
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: the very first word that I wrote to the time
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: that it was shipping from Amazon was six weeks.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: So self published. And it came back to a.
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: Principle that I learned from one of my coaches called
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: Core four, where really everything revolves around four aspects of life, power, passion, purpose,
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: and production power being the body, passion, relationships, purposes, your mindset,
• 3:35
  Speaker 5: and spirituality, and then production money. And so it breaks
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: life down into very simple, bite sized realities, like we're
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: we have goals of like I want to make a
• 3:45
  Speaker 5: million dollars this year, and people write it up on
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: their vision board or whatever else and they're focused every.
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: Day on a million dollars, a million dollars, a million dollars.
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: And I look at it and say, well, the simplest
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: way to make a million dollars is to make whatever
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: the number is, two thousand something dollars a day.
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: So it's like if you want to build a.
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: Six pack, if you want to build a good relationship,
• 4:01
  Speaker 5: you don't build a great relationship with one trip to Cabo.
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: It's daily actions and small and so it really breaks
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: life down into bite size pieces that are manageable and attainable,
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: and it's kind of like you compound those over time
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: and you can end up, you know, with huge results.
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: So that's really what I focused on, and it's been crazy,
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: Like I self published that and it's sold almost a
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: million copies.
• 4:26
  Speaker 6: That's alas, I really love that because in the psychology
• 4:30
  Speaker 6: of success. We've talked about the psychology of success before,
• 4:34
  Speaker 6: but one principle is time to action. And so you know,
• 4:38
  Speaker 6: just like you, I built a business pretty quickly, you know,
• 4:41
  Speaker 6: developed a pretty quick following, and it's because a lot
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: of times there was imperfect action. But imperfect action is
• 4:47
  Speaker 6: better than no action at all, and most people take
• 4:49
  Speaker 6: no action at all. And so in this world, if
• 4:52
  Speaker 6: you really want to step into success, you kind of
• 4:54
  Speaker 6: have to be a bee about it person. And you
• 4:56
  Speaker 6: seem like that kind of guy that you're just a
• 4:58
  Speaker 6: bee about it person, And it sounds like your book
• 4:59
  Speaker 6: really reflects that. So how does that land with you
• 5:03
  Speaker 6: in terms of being a be about a person?
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: What you're saying is is absolutely accurate. What's funny, and
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: this is like one of the funny stories of the
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: book is about two weeks after it launched, I was
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: going through Amazon and it instantly shot to like bestseller
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: and the whole thing. And I was reading some of
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: the reviews and there was a review that said one
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: of the best books I've ever read. But did anybody
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: else noticed there was no page numbers, and I was like, hey,
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: what no page numbers.
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: So, you know, I had my book that they had
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: sent or my box that they had sent me.
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: So I went through and I looked and I was like,
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: damn it, there's no page numbers.
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: So I called my editor and I was like, hey,
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: do you have any books there? And she said yeah.
• 5:41
  Speaker 5: I said, will you look at, like, do you have
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: page numbers in yours?
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: And she said, there's no page numbers.
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: And she went to the manuscript that we had submitted
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: and she almost had a heart attack. She's like, I'm
• 5:50
  Speaker 5: so sorry, Oh my god, I can't believe I forgot
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: we forgot to put page numbers on. So it was
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: really interesting because she's like, I'm gonna stop press. I'm
• 5:59
  Speaker 5: gonna go back. You know, well we read you the
• 6:01
  Speaker 5: whole thing. I'll put the page numbers. And I just said, no,
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: just leave it.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of like it.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, so it.
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: Was funny because I've got a best selling book that
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: sold more than most like published authors with no page numbers.
• 6:14
  Speaker 5: Some people are like, go to this page and like
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: you can't. It's like, but it just kind of shows
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: what you're saying that. Yeah, imperfect action will win every time.
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: To sell this A million copies of a book with
• 6:26
  Speaker 5: no publisher, with no ads, with no anything shows the
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: caliber of the book and the quality of the book,
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: but it has no page numbers.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I love that. I mean I really do.
• 6:36
  Speaker 6: And one of the things that has drawn me to
• 6:39
  Speaker 6: you so much is the rejection of a victim mindset.
• 6:43
  Speaker 6: So I don't want to let this podcast go by
• 6:45
  Speaker 6: without really talking about that, because my life changed so
• 6:48
  Speaker 6: profoundly when I stopped identifying as a victim of the
• 6:52
  Speaker 6: things that had happened to me and I started identifying
• 6:54
  Speaker 6: as an overcomer, someone who could move through adversity with
• 6:57
  Speaker 6: grace and dignity, and somebody who was going to come
• 7:00
  Speaker 6: out on top, and just having that mindset of there
• 7:02
  Speaker 6: was no other option but coming out on top. So
• 7:05
  Speaker 6: tell us a little bit about your rejection of the
• 7:07
  Speaker 6: victim mindset and how that's played out in your life.
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: I think this is one of the hardest things for
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: people to do. It is truly like and this is the.
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: Reason you have like Goggins talking about it, and Jocko
• 7:19
  Speaker 5: talking about and so many people talking about it, because
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: it's in my opinion, having coached tens of thousands of
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: people over the last decade. I see that being the
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: biggest hurdle. It was my biggest hurtle.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: You know min too.
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: My wife did this, or the market did that, or
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: my boss did this, And there's always somebody at the
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: helm of whatever the black is or the shortcoming. It's
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: like we want to take praise for the victory and
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: what we built, but something bad happens or whatever else,
• 7:46
  Speaker 5: and it's like.
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: With somebody else's reality.
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: And for me, I just had to look at everything,
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: whether it was business I got we lost millions, Well
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: I started the business, like I didn't do a good
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: enough job or no enough or learn enough to make
• 7:59
  Speaker 5: the right pivot. I married the person like I chose
• 8:03
  Speaker 5: this relationship. So when you look at it, it's really
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: interesting because it's really simple, yet it's so unbelievably.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: Deep in people's brains.
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: And I think the story we were raised in environments
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: where and I mean now you add social media to it,
• 8:20
  Speaker 5: like I didn't grow up with this. I didn't grow
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: up with the smartphones and stuff like now it's just
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: compounded because it's a.
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: Black versus white, Republican versus democrat.
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: Gas price is high because of this, or I'm fat
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: because of this, or I'm broke because of this. And
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: to me, it's the most pivotal moment that a human
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: being will make is when they look at it and
• 8:41
  Speaker 5: they say, I did.
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: This all of it bad.
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a lot of things that I could say
• 8:46
  Speaker 5: about him or her, or my boss or the market.
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but I did this.
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: And it's the most liberating, humiliating, embarrassing, frustrating, demoralizing feeling
• 8:59
  Speaker 5: that you'll ever have and reality that you'll ever sit in.
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: But you know, that's kind of where this whole thing
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: kicked off for me. When I went through my divorce
• 9:06
  Speaker 5: and I shared that post that went viral, I sat
• 9:09
  Speaker 5: down on my bed and I did something that I
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: hadn't done ever before on social media.
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: And this was fifteen years ago. I told the truth.
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Like, I sat down and I had this picture
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: that I took with my ex wife's new baby. And
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: instead of me saying like, oh, my divorce was hard
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: and you know, she was mean and dad da, I said, nowaday.
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: I was angry and I had a ton of pain,
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: and I was in the darkness and I said dumb
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: things I knew all the buttons to push, and guess
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: what I did. I pushed all the buttons, like I
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: knew how to make her pissed, and I made her
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: pissed and I acted stupid and I was afraid and
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: I had fear. And that was ultimately the post that
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: went viral for me, and it kind of kicked everything off.
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: But I realized, like, in doing that, it sucked because
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: there was tons of comments, Yeah, I you know you
• 9:54
  Speaker 5: were and I saw and you take a lot of heat.
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: But when you take that heat, like there's no one
• 9:59
  Speaker 5: to blame.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: And then the shame goes away.
• 10:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah, because you can face the shame. And what we
• 10:05
  Speaker 6: know about shame is that if you can't even face
• 10:07
  Speaker 6: it through radical personal accountability, then it just becomes defensiveness.
• 10:12
  Speaker 6: Then you're just defensive. It's only when you take radical
• 10:16
  Speaker 6: personal responsibility for your actions, your mistakes, your choices, despite
• 10:22
  Speaker 6: the circumstances, right despite the situational factors that may have
• 10:26
  Speaker 6: helped it along, you can actually face your shame, move
• 10:29
  Speaker 6: through your shame, and then be empowered to actually take
• 10:32
  Speaker 6: better action in the future. So that's a huge reason
• 10:35
  Speaker 6: I've been drawn to your work and you have faced
• 10:38
  Speaker 6: some adversities, and you're very public about your adversities, and
• 10:42
  Speaker 6: so tell us about some of the lessons that you've
• 10:44
  Speaker 6: learned in facing adversity. Besides you know, getting rid of
• 10:48
  Speaker 6: the victim mindset and personal responsibility, what are some of
• 10:51
  Speaker 6: the other lessons that you've learned through adversity.
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: Oh, boy, I.
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: One of the biggest, just in the thing that come
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: to my mind as leadership is when you're looking at
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: somebody who, for lack of better words, can eat a
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: giant pie of humble shit and own it and say.
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: I did this.
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: You know, for me, whether it's business, whether it's losing money,
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: making money.
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: One of the things that I went through in my
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: kind of midlife crisis at thirty years old, when I
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: went through my divorce and the whole thing is I
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: had been really successful in real estate, and I had
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: flipped almost four thousand houses and had one hundred.
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: And seven employees and was making.
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: Millions of dollars. And I went through this divorce and
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: this midlife crisis. I literally left my company.
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: It was it was a literal I don't know what
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: a midlife crisis is, but if.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: It's just different for everybody, putting your.
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: Head up your butt for eighteen months ago and I
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: don't even know what the hell I'm doing.
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: Like that was it, right? But I'll never forget my
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: coach and my mentor. At the time, he's like, all.
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: Of that is true, but the reality is you still
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: flip the houses.
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And it was one of those moments where I realized, like,
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: most people will never get.
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: In the game.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like one person think, yeah, so you look.
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: At like a Michael Jordan or a Tiger Woods, or
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: you look at kind of the greats, and the reality
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: is like, and it sounds cheesy and cliche to people, Oh,
• 12:14
  Speaker 5: Michael Jordan, I missed ten thousand shots or whatever else.
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: But that's why he became great, is because he was
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: willing to look like a total.
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: Idiot yep, in order to do something in order to
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: become great. And I think that's really for me. That
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: experience of having made millions of dollars, lost millions of dollars,
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: gotten remarried, you know, been divorced, gone through lots of
• 12:39
  Speaker 5: different things, is like, I'm doing things that most people
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: will never even try. So naturally, what comes with that
• 12:44
  Speaker 5: is embarrassment, humiliation. Look, he fell on his face or
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: he did this or he went through this or whatever else,
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: and it's said, yeah, but I did something that most
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: people will never do.
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: And I think that's the real.
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: Passion that I have with life and what I do
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: with my coaching and how I share with people is
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: like you're never gonna know until you launch, until you jump.
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: But at the end of the day, like that's really
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: what we're here for. I can't think of anything more
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: terrifying than laying on my deathbed knowing that God put
• 13:11
  Speaker 5: ideas in my brain and passion to my soul, and
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: I squandered it because I was afraid to look stupid,
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: or I was afraid of somebody like making a negative
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: comment from some random basement in America or wherever, making
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: fun of me.
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying. It's still that thesis to me.
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: Show me a billionaire, and I'll show you somebody who
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: lost millions of dollars. You know, you show me somebody
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: who shred it.
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: I'll show you somebody who at one point in time
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: wasn't you show me somebody who has a really dope marriage.
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: I'll show you a couple that was on the rocks
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: and probably talked about divorced.
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: Couple of times, like, sure, that's to me, the real
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: antithesis is being able to jump, and you got If
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: you're not comfortable looking stupid, I mean, you're going to
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: live a pretty mediocre.
• 13:54
  Speaker 6: Life because you can't be at the level of exposure
• 13:58
  Speaker 6: that you're at, that I'm at without having people say
• 14:02
  Speaker 6: awful things, be cynical of you, make fun of you,
• 14:06
  Speaker 6: talk trash about you, make stitches and clips of your
• 14:09
  Speaker 6: videos and tell.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: You how wrong you are, and you know you can't.
• 14:15
  Speaker 6: You have to have a thick enough skin at some
• 14:20
  Speaker 6: point to realize that if you don't have haters, you're
• 14:22
  Speaker 6: not doing it right. You're not relevant if people don't
• 14:26
  Speaker 6: if people aren't talking about you, you're not relevant. And
• 14:29
  Speaker 6: if people are talking about you, even if it's negative,
• 14:31
  Speaker 6: guess what you're helping. You're driving the algorithm, which ultimately
• 14:36
  Speaker 6: at the end of the day is more exposure to
• 14:39
  Speaker 6: people who who's you know, who are going to be
• 14:42
  Speaker 6: impacted positively by our message. You're going to bring people
• 14:45
  Speaker 6: to the table who need to hear what we have
• 14:47
  Speaker 6: to say just by hating on us.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think audacity I think in general is there's
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: a movement right, there's an audacious movement in general, with
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: people putting themselves out there a little bit more. We
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: were just talking about this yesterday, you know, back in
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty when there was sort of like this social
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: media movement if you put your if you put yourself
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: out there, you were taking a massive risk. And now
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: it's all changed. People are becoming more audacious, people are
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: wanting to speak out more openly, which I think is
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: depending on how you look at it, can be a
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: really beautiful thing because it creates a new level of
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: consciousness for us as the human race.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: And that's what we need. That's what we need.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: We need people who are willing to talk about things truthfully, honestly,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: with you know, being audacious yea.
• 15:34
  Speaker 6: And honesty is a huge part of your brand, yes, yeah, And.
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: I love that love, I love that that word audacious.
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: But like when you look at it, you know, and
• 15:45
  Speaker 5: a lot of my coaching and I have done this in
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: live events and the whole thing, Like I always ask.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: People like how many of you ever screwed up? Like
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: how many have you ever failed? Right?
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: And everybody raised their hands, and I like raised both
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: my hands, and I've done it plenty of times, right,
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: And so what people you're afraid If you've done that,
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: you're familiar with it, and typically you're not afraid of
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: things that you're familiar with, right. But what people are
• 16:05
  Speaker 5: deathly afraid of is being judged. And we're not afraid
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: of failing. No one's afraid of failing because we've done
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: it so many.
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: Times, right, So what are we really afraid of?
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: Like what's really holding us back? And it's if I
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: start the company, or I start the business, or I
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: go on the weight loss journey, or I get married,
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: or I fall in love or whatever else, people are
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: going to.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: Make fun of me, or I'm going to be judged.
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: And what I came to understand years ago is no
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: matter what I do, I'm going to be judged driving
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: a Honda, a Cord, or a Lamborghini. I will be judged,
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: whether I live in an apartment or a mansion, whether
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: I have a six pack, or I'm going to be
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: judged no matter what. And so it's kind of like
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: that moment where I was like, well that's the case,
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: then I'm just going.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: To go do what I want to do.
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: That's and make myself happy, because I'm going to be
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: judged no matter what.
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: That is so absolutely true, and it just, you know,
• 16:56
  Speaker 6: it reminds me of this idea that you know, if again,
• 17:01
  Speaker 6: if you don't have haters, you're not doing it right.
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: But why are we so concerned with what strangers think
• 17:07
  Speaker 6: about us? At the end of the day, my concern
• 17:10
  Speaker 6: is number one, what does God think of me? Number two,
• 17:12
  Speaker 6: what is my family think of me? And then maybe
• 17:15
  Speaker 6: the other people close to me in my life. Other
• 17:18
  Speaker 6: than that, I don't care what you think of me,
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: because the people who I resonate with are going to
• 17:24
  Speaker 6: stay and they're going to find me, and I will
• 17:27
  Speaker 6: foster and shepherd that community. And the people that you
• 17:31
  Speaker 6: know say I don't like your content or I don't
• 17:34
  Speaker 6: you know, agree with what you have to say. Okay,
• 17:36
  Speaker 6: there's plenty of other people in the world you can follow,
• 17:39
  Speaker 6: And so I'm just going to focus on my community
• 17:42
  Speaker 6: and number one, what God thinks. Number two, what my
• 17:44
  Speaker 6: family thinks, what my close friends think, not what jo
• 17:47
  Speaker 6: Shmo on the Internet thinks. Because if I spent my
• 17:50
  Speaker 6: time and energy on what Joe Shmo on the Internet
• 17:52
  Speaker 6: thought of me, that is wasting precious, precious moments of
• 17:55
  Speaker 6: my life.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: That I'm just not willing to waste.
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think I have a different take on
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: haters and trolls. I think they're your biggest fans.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: Probably there's no one.
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: I mean, really think about the psychology of this. I
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: love psychology. I love studying the mind and mindsettle thing.
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: If you're watching me every day, if you're consuming my
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: content waiting for a post to screenshot it and post
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: it on Reddit and then cackle about it with other people,
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: you're a fan.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah for sure.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: But you're a fan. I know that you think that
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: you're not and somehow you're. But you're literally watching everything
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: that I do and talking to other people about what
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: I do.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Why, Yeah, and thank you?
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: Think about the psychology of why?
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: Because there's no one. I mean, I don't hate anybody.
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: There's people I dislike, there's people I don't. I don't
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: agree with bike, so I don't follow someone that I
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: don't like.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's such a foreign con Yeah, so.
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: That's kind of why I tell people. I'm like, that's
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: the old.
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: Saying a good pressure, bad press. It's all press kind
• 19:02
  Speaker 5: of a thing. But if you're following me, like my game,
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: your game, this is what we're all doing. We're in
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: the game of attention. We're in the game of eyeballs,
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: like we want more people to see our messages, hear
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: our stuff, whatever else. If you're following me, whether you
• 19:14
  Speaker 5: like me or don't like me, or a fan, because
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: if you didn't care about what I had to say,
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: if you didn't have an emotional connection to it one
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: way or the other, I wouldn't be on your radar.
• 19:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you're obviously hitting them at the level of their
• 19:27
  Speaker 6: identity somehow, You're when people do that, there's something about
• 19:31
  Speaker 6: what you have to say that is hitting them at
• 19:35
  Speaker 6: the level of their identity, that is contradicting something about
• 19:37
  Speaker 6: their identity that they want to keep holding on too.
• 19:40
  Speaker 6: And you're you've let that go or you don't identify
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: with it yourself, and it creates an internal struggle for them.
• 19:49
  Speaker 6: You know, I had this experience just this other week.
• 19:52
  Speaker 6: There's this therapist, Oh my gosh, you won't leave me alone,
• 19:54
  Speaker 6: keep stitching my videos about cheating, saying that, oh, cheaters
• 19:58
  Speaker 6: are just in pain and they you know, we should
• 20:01
  Speaker 6: feel we should feel bad for them, and we shouldn't
• 20:03
  Speaker 6: judge them, and that's harmful. And I'm like, yeah, we
• 20:06
  Speaker 6: should absolutely judge them, because judgment is how we determine
• 20:10
  Speaker 6: what's right and what's wrong. And so then if we
• 20:13
  Speaker 6: don't have judgment, all behavior becomes morally neutral. And so yeah,
• 20:18
  Speaker 6: I'm judging them, and yeah, I'm willing to say it's wrong,
• 20:20
  Speaker 6: and yeah I'm willing to look somebody who comes to
• 20:22
  Speaker 6: my practice in the eye and say, if you can't
• 20:24
  Speaker 6: admit that what you did was entitled and was selfish
• 20:27
  Speaker 6: and was dishonest, we're never gonna get to your shame.
• 20:30
  Speaker 6: And then it's again, shame turns into defensiveness. And so
• 20:33
  Speaker 6: I didn't agree with everything she had to say, but
• 20:36
  Speaker 6: I'm talking three four videos coming after me in the comments,
• 20:40
  Speaker 6: and it's just like, at the end of the day,
• 20:44
  Speaker 6: something about what I said hits you at the level
• 20:48
  Speaker 6: of the identity, and all the people in her comments
• 20:50
  Speaker 6: supporting her, it's just like, tell me you've cheated without
• 20:53
  Speaker 6: telling me that you've cheated, right, tell me that you
• 20:55
  Speaker 6: cheated on your spouse without telling me that you cheated
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: on your spouse. So I said, hit you at the
• 21:01
  Speaker 6: level of identity. You cheated, and you can't deal with
• 21:04
  Speaker 6: the shame, So you want somebody who's gonna sit with
• 21:06
  Speaker 6: you and hold your hand and say you did it
• 21:08
  Speaker 6: because you were in pain, you did it because you
• 21:10
  Speaker 6: didn't know how to cope. And I'm going to look
• 21:12
  Speaker 6: at you in the eye and I'm going to say,
• 21:13
  Speaker 6: you did it because you were entitled, you did it
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: because you were acting selfishly, you did it because you
• 21:18
  Speaker 6: lacked integrity.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: And until we fix those.
• 21:20
  Speaker 6: Things about your character, you're likely to repeat the pattern
• 21:23
  Speaker 6: because we can't even get to the pain behind that
• 21:25
  Speaker 6: until we get to your character, right, we need to
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: shore that up first, And that's why people come to me.
• 21:30
  Speaker 6: And so I think when people are trolling you, there's
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: something about what you said that was just too truthful
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: that hit them in their identity.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: It hit them right in.
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: The identity or whether you're winning or whatever else.
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: Like I see this a ton because like I grew
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: up in a single parent home and I've built an
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: incredible life and there's no silver spoon, like I built
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: this from nothing same it's like I took it out
• 21:52
  Speaker 5: of the cosmos and made a reality and it's made,
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: you know, millions of dollars. And so people are looking
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: at their own world and their own existence, going why
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: him and not me, and his upbringing was like my upbringing,
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: and I'm like, yeah, we're just not the same. Like
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: you're focused on the lack and I'm focused on the
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: abundance and building. And I really feel like what you
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: said is dead on. Like people, whenever I post a
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: picture of my shirt off, I'm forty seven years old.
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: I'm in the best shape of my life, right, I'm
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: proud of it. I lead men. I've got a ton
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: of followers and molding. It's fascinating because all of the
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: support is.
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: From people that are in shape, yeah, and all it
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: hates from people that aren't.
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: It's it's every time, no exception.
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: There's not a single dude with a six pack that's like, dude,
• 22:33
  Speaker 5: we're sick of seeing it, Like, shut the hell up.
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: Like there, every one of them is.
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: Clapping, keep going, keep going, and all the people like,
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: look at the cop, just look at them. They're like, well,
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: it's not about having a six pack, it's not about
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: all that.
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: Life's more than that. It's more.
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: And I'm like, dude, this is this is why this
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: is the gap and losers lose.
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: It's just that simple mindset. So it's like, I think
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: you're dead on.
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: When you're doing something, saying something, seeing something that sparks
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: something inside of people, you have two choices like look inward,
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: look in the mirror, own it, say dude, he's right,
• 23:05
  Speaker 5: I'm fat on forty seven he's not, you know what
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: I mean? And I think it's beautiful because again, it
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: creates controversy, if you will, comments on the whole thing.
• 23:16
  Speaker 5: And one of the things that I love about social
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: media is that allows people to just have this this experience, like.
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: Their own internal experience.
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: And I can't tell you how many messages I'm sure sir,
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: he's see the same thing. People will message me and say, dude,
• 23:29
  Speaker 5: I've been following you for filling the blank six seven months,
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: eight months, ten months, like and I finally get it now, right, Like,
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: tissed me off enough that I'm like, damn it, I've
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: got to go do it now.
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: I'm sick of seeing this guy do this. You pissed
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: me off. I didn't like you, all right, I man,
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, I love that.
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: I love that.
• 23:47
  Speaker 6: And you know the way that I have to look
• 23:50
  Speaker 6: at that is like it takes massive discipline to be
• 23:55
  Speaker 6: in the shape that you're in, Like it takes massive
• 23:57
  Speaker 6: amounts of discipline.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: I don't care. There's no real cheat code to that.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Like especially while running a business. Yeah, but while running.
• 24:05
  Speaker 6: Out you have to eat well, you have to lift
• 24:08
  Speaker 6: heavy stuff in the gym.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: You have to do that.
• 24:11
  Speaker 6: And I'm not gonna lie like when I was overweight
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: and I hadn't lifted a weight in my entire life.
• 24:18
  Speaker 6: David Goggin's book was amazing for me, Like it was
• 24:21
  Speaker 6: a radical wake up and I didn't feel like he
• 24:24
  Speaker 6: induced shame in me.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: I felt like he just spoke truth.
• 24:28
  Speaker 6: And it is not easy to speak truth in the
• 24:32
  Speaker 6: time that we live in. It is not easy to
• 24:34
  Speaker 6: speak truth because it makes people so uncomfortable and people
• 24:37
  Speaker 6: are just would like you to blow smoke up there butt.
• 24:40
  Speaker 6: And one of the things Raina and I always talk
• 24:42
  Speaker 6: about in terms of our friendship is like our friendship
• 24:44
  Speaker 6: is so powerful because we're honest with each other, Like
• 24:46
  Speaker 6: I can come to you and be like, baby, you
• 24:48
  Speaker 6: can't keep doing this.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: And we deeply respect and we respect each other to
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: do that, and.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: We don't get offended. We don't get offended.
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: And I'm so tired of a spirit of offense. I
• 24:59
  Speaker 6: don't know how you feel about this, but talk to
• 25:01
  Speaker 6: us about like a spirit of offense and just being
• 25:04
  Speaker 6: offended and how you've just become someone who is kind
• 25:08
  Speaker 6: of unoffendable. I mean, that's part of your brand, is
• 25:11
  Speaker 6: you're just not offendable.
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: It hurts.
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: There's a difference between like hurt and shame and accountability
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: and offense, and like I could quote all the scriptures
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: about a wise man and your brother and the whole thing,
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: but like I I experience this deeply, not only with
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: like my coaches and mentors, but how I am with
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: my clients. I have an interesting you ask around town,
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: and there's really no middle ground. Either really like me
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: and you're a fan, or you think I'm the biggest.
• 25:39
  Speaker 6: This is why we wanted to have you on the
• 25:41
  Speaker 6: podcast exactly because I love to be controversial.
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: I do.
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: I get labeled then I'm a narcis assist and I'm
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: all of these other things or whatever else. And you know,
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: I've had fifty three thousand people joined my coaching group
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: over the.
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: Last ten years, and I've never run an ad. This
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: is purely organic.
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: And there isn't a single person that could tell you
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: that they didn't have their life altered one way or
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: the other by being part of it. My understanding and
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: my belief and like, what God is putting into me
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: is is not to appease where you are, but it's
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: to wake you up. And I had somebody tell me
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: this years ago and it's stuck with me and it's true.
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: He's like, you're like a light switch. I'm like, what
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: what are you talking about? And he's like, imagine for
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: a second when you were a kid and you're laying
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: in bed school morning. Mom comes in, it's cold winter morning,
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: pulls the covers off, flips the light on right, and you're.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: Like, ah, Mom, shut the light off. You want to
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: go back to bed. He's like, you're just like that.
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: But the reality is the people that love you the
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: most will tell you the truth. And the truth is
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: not always pleasant, period.
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: That's what I love. Jesus told the truth and they
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: killed him for exactly.
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: And this culture in the society that we have, and
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: you can find any echo chamber you want.
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: You want to be actim, be a victim.
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: You want to think that every man's a narcissist because
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: he's confident or he's bold or whatever. Do whatever you want, man,
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: But what I have a deep, deep, deep connection to
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: in belief is like, my job is not here to.
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: Appease you where you are. That's right, it's to wake
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: you up. Now, whether you see the light fallow, I
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: don't care. It's not up to me.
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: But you know, the people that have had the most
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: impact in my life are not people that give me
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: the pat on the ass and said that a boy.
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: They're like, no, dude, you're being an idiot.
• 27:28
  Speaker 6: Yeah, this is why mediat This is one hundred percent
• 27:31
  Speaker 6: why I think that coaching is taking off and therapy
• 27:34
  Speaker 6: is sort of dying, and that where people are losing
• 27:36
  Speaker 6: trust and therapists is because therapy becomes this giant validation
• 27:40
  Speaker 6: bubble where you're just having your feelings caddled twenty four
• 27:44
  Speaker 6: seven three sixty five and you're not actually getting any
• 27:47
  Speaker 6: real honesty or truth or tools to cope. And this
• 27:50
  Speaker 6: is just from feedback from my clients. You know, I'm
• 27:52
  Speaker 6: not saying there's not good therapists out there. There are,
• 27:54
  Speaker 6: but it can create this space where I go and
• 27:56
  Speaker 6: I just feel like someone's going to just dry my
• 28:00
  Speaker 6: tears and just hug me and make me feel like
• 28:02
  Speaker 6: all of my life's bad choices that I'm actually creating
• 28:05
  Speaker 6: my and creating this mess for myself. It's all okay,
• 28:08
  Speaker 6: because at the end of the day, we just all
• 28:10
  Speaker 6: have pain. And it's like, no, dude, at the end
• 28:13
  Speaker 6: of the day, if you're in pain, you have to
• 28:16
  Speaker 6: feel through that and then you have to figure out
• 28:20
  Speaker 6: how to make better choices that don't lead you into
• 28:23
  Speaker 6: so much pain. And so I think people are choosing
• 28:26
  Speaker 6: coaching for that reason. I think people are like, you know,
• 28:30
  Speaker 6: especially with the clientele that I work with, say, we
• 28:34
  Speaker 6: have somebody who's dismissive, avoidant, right, They're just very emotionally unavailable.
• 28:39
  Speaker 6: They're the most defensive people on the planet besides narcissists.
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: They are.
• 28:43
  Speaker 6: Their shame is so deep that they get stuck on
• 28:45
  Speaker 6: the first, like second of trying to be accountable, and
• 28:50
  Speaker 6: so when they go to therapy they reject it because
• 28:54
  Speaker 6: you know, the slightest bit of criticism just makes them
• 28:56
  Speaker 6: get so uncomfortable. But when I go in there, I
• 29:00
  Speaker 6: can be honest with you without triggering your shame. I
• 29:03
  Speaker 6: can be like, let's not let's not like talk about
• 29:06
  Speaker 6: the fact that you know you've made these mistakes. Let's
• 29:09
  Speaker 6: just own the fact that this is your pattern, and
• 29:12
  Speaker 6: let's move forward.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: Let's teach you how to change it.
• 29:17
  Speaker 6: Okay, I'm not going to focus on all of the
• 29:19
  Speaker 6: past mistakes. I'm just gonna name what it is, and
• 29:24
  Speaker 6: then you have to accept that if you want to
• 29:26
  Speaker 6: change it, and let's talk about that change and what
• 29:28
  Speaker 6: that change really looks like instead of just marinating and
• 29:31
  Speaker 6: how it all felt.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: I'm curious. I'm curious with dismans of avoidance, it's the
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: percentage of most or.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: Men most are men, like eighty five percent.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I'm curious, Sean, like, what do you think
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: it is that men are running from emotionally?
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: Oh boy?
• 29:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, answer that question. Here we go answer that question.
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: You know, it's really interesting.
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: I mean there's so many there's a lot that goes
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: into this, and I want to try and keep it
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: like simple, but like I get a narcissist all the time,
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: all the time. I have multiple coaches. I went to
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: my therapist yesterday. I've got two amazing therapists you know
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: that are they're really good. You know, one is a
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: I mean one has like gone really far down the
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: path of like psychoanalysis and stuff. Because I'm trying to
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: open up my brain. I want to know more. I
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: think we, especially today, we have just a really interesting
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: culture and data and information in our face so much,
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: and you have people that have never really established who
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: they are, right And so as a man, I've been
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: programmed since I was a kid.
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: Here's what normal looks like.
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: Okay, get the job, do the deal, climb the corporate ladder,
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: the whole thing. And if you're like me, you sat
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: in school going what am I doing here?
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: This is stupid?
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: And so when you kind of come outside of this
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: societal norm and you start sharing who you are and
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: talking about who you are inside of all of us,
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: we're not that far off. And I'm kind of this
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: old schore primal guy, we're not that far off that
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: if you didn't if a man didn't go in the
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: mountains and hunt and kill something you didn't eat, we're
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: not that far removed. We think that we're cool because
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: we have electric cars and cell phones and TVs and stuff,
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: we're not that far primarily in our DNA from that
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: reality where if you did not go hunt, like there
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: were people and villages that wanted to steal your women,
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: steal your belonging, steal everything that was just.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: Like a few hundred years ago. It was just a
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: few hundred years ago.
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And this is where I think people have a
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: hard time wrapping their head around.
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: And I'll get to your answer here in a second.
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: I believe passionately in this because as a guy, a tattooed,
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: bearded guy who has a daughter and two sons, who
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: loves love, who's super passionate, super out there, I've been
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: really observant, like for me personally over the last decade,
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: using social media, being out there, how so many men
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: are hiding who they really are and what they really are.
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: And we've built this echo chamber now where if a
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: guy's loud, it's abusive. If a guy says something that
• 32:07
  Speaker 5: hurts my feelings, he's a narcissist. If he challenges me
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: in any way, he's gaslighting me. And now these guys
• 32:15
  Speaker 5: men are going like, what the fuck do I say?
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: Here's what I feel, but I don't want to say
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: anything because the truth is, like, no one likes to
• 32:27
  Speaker 5: be labeled anything, right, But we're like taking these primal
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: men and telling them to become these sedated, newtered little
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: puppy dogs who make everybody feel okay, don't rock the boat,
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: don't challenge, don't say anything. If you do this, you're
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: this if you do this. And so now guys are going, dude,
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: who am I? Who am I supposed to be? My
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: wife wants me to be, this, my boss, the world, church,
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: the whole thing. And I think the reason that male
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: suicide is at an all.
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: Time high, it's not because there's a lack of money.
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: It's not because the lack of can companionship. You can
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: go down to the local freaking watering hole and find companionship.
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: It's because men have no capacity to be who they
• 33:08
  Speaker 5: really are. And we've built a very interesting culture around
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: demonizing the primal nature of man.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an identity crisis.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: It is an identity and it really is.
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: And so I talked to I have hundreds and hundreds
• 33:21
  Speaker 5: and hundreds of clients that are men, and this is
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: why men are struggling. Because I'll give you a really
• 33:26
  Speaker 5: you guys will appreciate this from a relationship standpoint. I
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: had a client. This changed me, and this changed my
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: entire business. I had a client. I was at a
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: gas station years ago and he comes up to me
• 33:36
  Speaker 5: and I didn't know him, and he said, dude, sean
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: whale and follow you. I love you the whole thing.
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: And he started crying, this is dude, big truck, the
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: whole thing. And I said, what's up, dude, and he's like, listen,
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: I'm going through this crazy experience. I cheated on my wife,
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: I knocked up my girlfriend. My life's in shadows. I
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: don't know what to do. I'm all over the place.
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: And I was like, all right, cool. He ends up
• 33:55
  Speaker 5: coming to my event and we broke it down. And
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: to make a long story short, he was married in
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: a very religious experience.
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: And the whole thing.
• 34:03
  Speaker 5: He's like, I don't know how to talk to my
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: wife about sex. We don't have a good sex life.
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: And if I say anything, then she's going to think
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: that I'm some weirdo or I'm into poorn or whatever.
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: When I want to explore and I want to deepen
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: our connection and I want to do crazier stuff in
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: the bedroom, and he's like, I can't say it to her.
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: And so I made a mistake and I cheated.
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: On my wife.
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: The old thing I told him, I said, dude, go home.
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: They were on the rocks like they were ready to
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: split up.
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: It was bad.
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: I said, go home and tell her exactly what you want.
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: Just put everything on the table. No more hiding, no
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: more lying. He calls me a couple days later, in tears.
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: I saw it's up, he says, like. We took her
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: out to dinner. We sat down, we talked, and I
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: told her all of the things that I wanted, all
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: of the things that I was feeling, how I didn't
• 34:48
  Speaker 5: love our sex life, how I felt scared to tell
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: you what I really wanted in the bedroom.
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: You know, she said, She said, why didn't you tell
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: me I want the same thing?
• 34:58
  Speaker 6: See truth such a free it really goodness. Yes, honesty.
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: Their marriage, they're together, they're on fire. They literally were
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: just two dear friends of mine. They were off in
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: the islands and playing and stuff. And that changed me
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: because I realized, I'm like, men are more scared of
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: being labeled a narcissist or he raised his voice, so
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: he's abusing me than telling the truth.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: And this is that, Well, truth is vulnerability.
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: A primal animal. You're taking a primal animal and saying
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: be quiet, sit in the corner, don't make any waves.
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: And men have no damn clue how to do that.
• 35:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And it ends up coming out in really destructive
• 35:36
  Speaker 6: ways when they're not able. I always say, you know,
• 35:39
  Speaker 6: vulnerability is actually bravery when you can actually tell the
• 35:44
  Speaker 6: truth about how you feel, because it there comes a
• 35:48
  Speaker 6: possibility of rejection. Right when you're vulnerable and men have
• 35:52
  Speaker 6: had it shoved down their throats.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: You know, be stoic, don't don't make a peep.
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: You know, if you have a feeling, it's not about
• 36:00
  Speaker 6: how you feel, it's about what you can provide. And
• 36:02
  Speaker 6: of course provision is important. But we're not listening to
• 36:06
  Speaker 6: how men feel. We're just like today, we're just like,
• 36:09
  Speaker 6: shut up.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: We are, but we don't. We're not. We're not we're
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: hearing it.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: We're not. Yeah, we're not.
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: Really, And again I don't.
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: This isn't a man woman thing. I don't like all
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: that's whatever, masculine, feminine. There are ten million pages and
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: people and ideas, but like men are speaking, like men
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: are sharing, but people don't like what they have.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: To say, and so I'd agree with that.
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: We're labeled like I'm a very outspoken dude. I mean
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: it's funny because I go to therapy and I have
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: coaches and my favories, Like dude, narcissists don't go, they
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: don't do well, they do.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Not go, they don't they don't even have the awareness.
• 36:46
  Speaker 5: Even in my marriage, I was like, I was the
• 36:48
  Speaker 5: one trying to get us to more therapy and more
• 36:50
  Speaker 5: coaches and more things. I'm like, let's figure these problems out,
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: let's figure these things.
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: Out, and and but what's interesting is from the outside,
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: it's just narcissist, narcissist, narcissist, arcissist.
• 37:00
  Speaker 5: And if you don't have the capacity like me to
• 37:03
  Speaker 5: really know who you are and to not really give
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: a damn and to be able to share it like
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: I do, most men have never done that.
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: They're blue collar guys, white collar guys.
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: They go to work, they do the deal, they check
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: the box, and they're sitting here like just literally neutered
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: puppies when they want to be out, like ravaging the
• 37:18
  Speaker 5: world building.
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: And we built.
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: Empires men literally not that long ago. Their longing of
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: life was a glorious death. Men literally sought out a
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: noble and glorious death. And now we have dudes that
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: are like, I don't know if I'm an umbrella today
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: or I'm identify as a fire hydrant, or I'm not supposed.
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: To be these things.
• 37:40
  Speaker 5: I'm like, literally, we're not that far off from men
• 37:43
  Speaker 5: whose entire thesis was to die a glorious death to
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: honor their name and their family and their woman and
• 37:51
  Speaker 5: their legacy and their empire.
• 37:53
  Speaker 6: And now we're just like, man, is that why every
• 37:57
  Speaker 6: Is that why every man loves the movie Braveheart? I've
• 38:00
  Speaker 6: never met a man that does'll.
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: Be right and spartans rights were just men.
• 38:15
  Speaker 6: And I honestly think when you truly become sort of
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: like a secure woman and you're feminine, like, you become
• 38:22
  Speaker 6: hyper attracted to that. But you know, I've also experienced,
• 38:26
  Speaker 6: right like a true narcissist who that was the persona
• 38:31
  Speaker 6: I am big man, I am aggressive, I am hunter,
• 38:35
  Speaker 6: I am but but at home he was a bully, right,
• 38:39
  Speaker 6: And so we have to distinguish the fact that we're
• 38:41
  Speaker 6: not talking about then going home and dominating your wife
• 38:44
  Speaker 6: all the time and bullying her around. We're talking about
• 38:48
  Speaker 6: that energy, that Brave Heart energy means that you were
• 38:52
  Speaker 6: fiercely protective of her at home in terms of her comfort,
• 38:57
  Speaker 6: her emotions, her dis And it doesn't mean that you
• 39:02
  Speaker 6: give into everything. It just means that you treat her
• 39:07
  Speaker 6: as if she's worth protecting at the end of the
• 39:11
  Speaker 6: day inside of that relationship, and then it's so easy
• 39:15
  Speaker 6: to let my husband lead, Like Rain has been on
• 39:17
  Speaker 6: enough trips with us now to know my husband pretty well.
• 39:20
  Speaker 6: I have zero brain when I'm with my husband, Like
• 39:23
  Speaker 6: it's almost laughable. It is almost laughable, Like I would
• 39:28
  Speaker 6: probably walk into the street and get hit by a car,
• 39:30
  Speaker 6: would if it wasn't for my but because you know,
• 39:34
  Speaker 6: in what I do, being this entrepreneur, this business owner,
• 39:38
  Speaker 6: you know, my brain has to go nine miles an hour.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: It feels like all the time doing all the things.
• 39:43
  Speaker 6: But when I get to step in with my husband,
• 39:45
  Speaker 6: I get to turn off my brain and just be like,
• 39:47
  Speaker 6: I know you've got me. I can be soft, You've
• 39:50
  Speaker 6: got me. Just literally lead me around, tell me what
• 39:53
  Speaker 6: we're eating, tell me where to go, just make call
• 39:56
  Speaker 6: me if it's a fancy or a casual. I don't
• 39:58
  Speaker 6: want to make any freaking decisions anymore. And then the
• 40:02
  Speaker 6: women that are the most unhappy, they're carrying this abundant
• 40:06
  Speaker 6: emotional load and it's making them miserable. And then oftentimes
• 40:11
  Speaker 6: what I feel like sets up that dynamic is like
• 40:14
  Speaker 6: a woman comes in and the man is so passive
• 40:17
  Speaker 6: that it's like, well, I want this car, I want
• 40:19
  Speaker 6: this house, I want this amount of babies, I want this,
• 40:22
  Speaker 6: I want this, I want this, and he's just the
• 40:23
  Speaker 6: yes man. Yep, okay, I make it happen. I make
• 40:25
  Speaker 6: it happen. I'll make it happen. I'll make it happen.
• 40:27
  Speaker 6: And then all of a sudden, she's stacked up with,
• 40:30
  Speaker 6: you know, participating in a house they can't pay for
• 40:33
  Speaker 6: a car, they can't afford, children that you know are
• 40:37
  Speaker 6: not being attuned to very well because they were all
• 40:41
  Speaker 6: working so hard to pay for that house and that
• 40:43
  Speaker 6: in that car. But if that husband would have stepped
• 40:45
  Speaker 6: up and said, no, baby, we actually can't afford that.
• 40:48
  Speaker 6: Here's the price range of the home that we can't afford. Yeah,
• 40:52
  Speaker 6: instead of just trying to give in and be the
• 40:54
  Speaker 6: yes man, she wouldn't be so miserable. And it's it's
• 40:58
  Speaker 6: so hard, Like the feminists hate me.
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: They hate me, and I get that.
• 41:04
  Speaker 6: I get why you might look at me and hate me,
• 41:06
  Speaker 6: because but I just know that to be true. I've
• 41:09
  Speaker 6: worked with enough couples now to know that that is
• 41:12
  Speaker 6: true and that it's not toxic masculinity, Like the absence
• 41:17
  Speaker 6: of masculinity is what's toxic, because I've experienced a hypermascular
• 41:22
  Speaker 6: man that treated me like shit, and I have a
• 41:24
  Speaker 6: hyper masculine man that.
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: Treats me like gold. Yeah right, it wasn't the last.
• 41:29
  Speaker 6: But masculinity is also protection in the emotional realm, in
• 41:35
  Speaker 6: the financial realm, it's protection in provision among all of
• 41:39
  Speaker 6: those things.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:40
  Speaker 5: One under said, and I think this is where a
• 41:42
  Speaker 5: lot of men specifically are stuck is and I think
• 41:47
  Speaker 5: a lot of women are too, is being able to
• 41:50
  Speaker 5: really articulate, like what's really happening, you know what I mean,
• 41:54
  Speaker 5: like inside of us because as a builder, right, as
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: a guy who one of the things I learned in
• 42:00
  Speaker 5: my last marriage is like I had to get really
• 42:03
  Speaker 5: clear with what I was thinking and what I was feeling,
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: right because prior to that years ago, it was like
• 42:09
  Speaker 5: I'm just all over the place, and I would like
• 42:11
  Speaker 5: bring that home where I learned enough about myself and
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: I saw like that's not effective for the relationship that
• 42:18
  Speaker 5: I want. So I would tell my wife, look, here's
• 42:20
  Speaker 5: the deal. I'm ready to burn everything to the ground.
• 42:23
  Speaker 5: We're good, Like I want to punch everybody they see
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: right now, this is where I'm at. I'm gonna go
• 42:27
  Speaker 5: grab a cigar and go for a drive. I'll be
• 42:29
  Speaker 5: home in an hour. And to just full transparency, like
• 42:33
  Speaker 5: vulnerable here. Like when we were going to therapy and
• 42:36
  Speaker 5: with our coaches, like our therapist was like, this is
• 42:39
  Speaker 5: what Sean needs to do to regulate. Okay. Now I
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: was with somebody that had again her own things, and
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: so when I would go and I would walk out
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: the door, this call call, call call, Are we good?
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: Are we good? Or where we go? Were good? And
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: I'm like, look, I need my space to go do
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: this thing. I you know what I mean.
• 43:00
  Speaker 5: And so I think there's also that movement together where
• 43:06
  Speaker 5: women who, like you said, say that are stable, they
• 43:09
  Speaker 5: are complete in themselves. They don't need a man to regulate.
• 43:14
  Speaker 5: You can watch your man, observe your man, not take
• 43:17
  Speaker 5: everything on. Nobody wants like to be driving like women
• 43:19
  Speaker 5: don't want to be making all the decisions. That's pretty
• 43:21
  Speaker 5: simple to me. That's just like a dude who needs
• 43:24
  Speaker 5: to get his ass kick to wake them up and
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: be like, go be a fucking man, okay, Like stop
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: having your woman drive the boat like you drive the boat.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: Think about that.
• 43:31
  Speaker 6: When I see women mowing their lawns in my neighborhood,
• 43:34
  Speaker 6: I'm like, I know, your husband, what is going on here?
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 43:38
  Speaker 5: But when you really look at it and you dissect it,
• 43:41
  Speaker 5: like a powerful woman also supports that man in his
• 43:45
  Speaker 5: journey and vice versas, Like if I come home and
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: my woman's like I my mom and this and it's
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: going all over the place and whatever, I'm like, here's
• 43:53
  Speaker 5: a glass of wine, bath is on, Go take a bath.
• 43:56
  Speaker 5: I'll be up in an hour, and I'm good. Like
• 43:59
  Speaker 5: I don't need her to be like, well are we good?
• 44:01
  Speaker 5: Is everything good?
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: Kind of a thing.
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: I think this is a real hard thing in our
• 44:04
  Speaker 5: culture right now because men are they're being told to
• 44:09
  Speaker 5: take the emotions, keep the emotions to yourselves, don't bring
• 44:12
  Speaker 5: that to your person. And now we don't have communication,
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: and so men aren't telling their women where they are,
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: why they're feeling, what they're feeling. Other thing and women
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: in a lot of cases, and I know you work
• 44:23
  Speaker 5: with women primarily, I work with men primarily. A lot
• 44:25
  Speaker 5: of women have their abandonment issues and have them on
• 44:28
  Speaker 5: whatever it is, like daddy issues and the whole thing.
• 44:30
  Speaker 5: And so when a man needs to go take his
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: space and do his thing. A lot of women are
• 44:34
  Speaker 5: triggered by that and they have a heart. I experienced that,
• 44:36
  Speaker 5: and that was like a really interesting thing where I'm like,
• 44:39
  Speaker 5: I have to have my outlet.
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: You have to have your outlet, and I.
• 44:43
  Speaker 5: Have to support you in your outlet, and you have
• 44:44
  Speaker 5: to support me and my outlet. And I think it's
• 44:47
  Speaker 5: a dance. I really do believe it is.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: I will see an important point.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I'm blessed in that.
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: No one's going to show up perfect.
• 44:53
  Speaker 5: No relationship is like an onion.
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: You're peeling back a layer.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: And now we have kids, Now we're older.
• 45:00
  Speaker 5: And now and there's just new levels and new layers
• 45:02
  Speaker 5: to people where you have to be constantly learning and
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: communicating and growing, learning, communicating and growing.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: And it takes a huge level of you know, self
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: trust first off, to be that way to allow your
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: spouse to go and just know, Okay, he's good.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: We're good.
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: My husband likes to golf and smokesrs.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: Like and I will say, you know, my husband and
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: I are so blessed in that in that way. You know,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: we got married later in life, which was a benefit
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: I think to us both because we were able to
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: kind of find our own self identity before we got married.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: And you know, he'll go, he'll do his thing.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: You know, I go do my thing, and then it
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: actually makes us stronger when we come back together.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: Those things make you stronger. Yeah.
• 45:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And I always say a healthy relationship you need
• 45:45
  Speaker 6: self regulation and coregulation, and there has to be a
• 45:48
  Speaker 6: balance of that, right, you have to be able to
• 45:49
  Speaker 6: self regulate yourself. You can't just rely on your partner
• 45:53
  Speaker 6: all the time to be the person that can soothe you,
• 45:55
  Speaker 6: even if the person, even if they're the one that
• 45:58
  Speaker 6: made you upset.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: Eventually you have to go on repair that.
• 46:01
  Speaker 6: But there might be a time where you need to
• 46:02
  Speaker 6: step back and you need to regulate yourself because a
• 46:05
  Speaker 6: disregulated person can't coregulate.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: That, and that is.
• 46:09
  Speaker 6: One of the you know, we talk a lot about
• 46:11
  Speaker 6: avoidant people and sometimes you know, a lot of content
• 46:15
  Speaker 6: out there on social media villainizes them. But people don't
• 46:18
  Speaker 6: realize how much an anxious person can smother someone and
• 46:23
  Speaker 6: demand and stomp and beg their way into.
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: Robbing you of.
• 46:30
  Speaker 6: Your self regulatory abilities. And sometimes we do need to
• 46:35
  Speaker 6: step away.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was me.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: I had to learn that I was the anxious, like,
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: let's solve the problem with fix it. What's wrong?
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll fix you, okay.
• 46:42
  Speaker 5: And I had to learn that where I realized, like,
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: this is where I really believe the communication is paramount
• 46:48
  Speaker 5: because if I love you and I trust you and
• 46:50
  Speaker 5: we're together, like we're not having the conversation or were
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: breaking up, we're not bringing I'm with you, tell me
• 46:56
  Speaker 5: what you need right now, and men, we're not.
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: Look, you don't want to read our minds. We don't
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: want to read your mon tell me what you need.
• 47:02
  Speaker 5: It's not I think if I'm secure in me and
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: you say you pissed me off, I didn't like what
• 47:09
  Speaker 5: you had to say. I need an hour, okay, and
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: then that hour you come back.
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: Here's what I experienced, Here's what I experienced.
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: Thank you for sharing with me. And I think that
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: that's the healthiest dynamic. But we're so we struggle. We
• 47:22
  Speaker 5: all struggle with that. To me, as an anxious, I
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: did that for a long time because I'm a problem
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: solver and meant a problem solver.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Wrong.
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: I don't want you to be hurt. I don't want
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: you to cry. Stop crying. I got it, What what
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: do you need?
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: And I had to learn that and not take things personally,
• 47:36
  Speaker 5: not you know, read into things and whatever else and
• 47:39
  Speaker 5: as an anxious person, like I know that journey and
• 47:43
  Speaker 5: it's actually really beautiful because it changed my entire life.
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: Like really understanding that sure, and it's changed.
• 47:49
  Speaker 5: My relationships in the sense like I used to chase
• 47:53
  Speaker 5: chase and chase and chase and chase and chase because
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: I had that insecurities and the fears of the whole thing.
• 47:57
  Speaker 5: And once I quit chasing and I understood that dynamic
• 48:01
  Speaker 5: of the avoidant, like I figured.
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: Out how to regulate me.
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: You have to have a.
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: Good partner sees that, like because you want your partner
• 48:12
  Speaker 5: to say, I'm pissed right now, I don't want to
• 48:14
  Speaker 5: say anything, don't want to do anything. I'm going to
• 48:16
  Speaker 5: go for a drive, And your partner's like, I fucking
• 48:18
  Speaker 5: love that about you go for your drive and do
• 48:21
  Speaker 5: you want Because.
• 48:22
  Speaker 6: What they're trying to tell you is, in this moment,
• 48:24
  Speaker 6: I don't have capacity to be the type of partner
• 48:26
  Speaker 6: you need me to be. So if I step away
• 48:29
  Speaker 6: for just a little bit, I'm gonna have the capacity.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: And when we learn to communicate. Hey, I am going
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: to resolve this with you. I love you.
• 48:36
  Speaker 6: I just need to regulate myself so I can show
• 48:39
  Speaker 6: up as the best version of myself. And you know
• 48:40
  Speaker 6: that's why your partner is taking space that is secure attachment.
• 48:44
  Speaker 6: And when I teach my groups, it's funny because I
• 48:47
  Speaker 6: had to call out my anxious folks right and then
• 48:49
  Speaker 6: so there's the fearfuls that lean more anxious, the anxious preoccupies.
• 48:52
  Speaker 6: I'm like, how many of you are guilty of When
• 48:54
  Speaker 6: something happens in your relationship and it's a it's a fight,
• 48:57
  Speaker 6: you want to fix it right away, and people will
• 48:59
  Speaker 6: raise their hands, and I'm like, actually, you're not prepared
• 49:02
  Speaker 6: to fix it in that moment.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: You think you are.
• 49:04
  Speaker 6: You want to, but you are not in a state
• 49:06
  Speaker 6: in your nervous system where you have access to your
• 49:09
  Speaker 6: empathy right now, where you have access to your openness
• 49:12
  Speaker 6: to take criticism right now. That is not available to
• 49:15
  Speaker 6: you in your brain right now. Because you are you
• 49:18
  Speaker 6: are relying on someone else to try to regulate your
• 49:21
  Speaker 6: nervous system, and so you are showing up dysregulated, not
• 49:25
  Speaker 6: having access to the very things that it takes to
• 49:28
  Speaker 6: solve conflict well, like empathy, curiosity, compassion, mindfulness, all of
• 49:33
  Speaker 6: those things, and so the avoidance then they're laughing, right,
• 49:36
  Speaker 6: they're like, oh, I knew I was the right one.
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh, you.
• 49:39
  Speaker 6: Guys over there, you may take space, but you don't
• 49:42
  Speaker 6: use that space wisely. You're dissociating, You're you know, you're
• 49:46
  Speaker 6: shoving your face into your TikTok and you're not necessarily regulating.
• 49:50
  Speaker 6: So you know, being able to regulate and some people
• 49:53
  Speaker 6: do need to have to do that through a little
• 49:55
  Speaker 6: bit of space, and a little bit of space is okay,
• 49:57
  Speaker 6: and you have to be able to as a partner
• 49:59
  Speaker 6: of someone that needs a little bit of space to regulate,
• 50:01
  Speaker 6: which really everybody should take a little bit of space
• 50:03
  Speaker 6: and regulate before repair.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: You have to respect that.
• 50:07
  Speaker 6: It's just when when it gets when it gets hard
• 50:09
  Speaker 6: is when people are like, I'm out of here, I
• 50:10
  Speaker 6: can't take this anymore, and then it's unpredictable when they'll return.
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: Right, So, well, it's creating trust.
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: Well, and you have those emotions.
• 50:18
  Speaker 5: We all have them, women have, men have them, like
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: and one of the things that we started, like working
• 50:23
  Speaker 5: with my our therapists, like when you have like a word,
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: like a keyword, whatever it is, right, like black pen
• 50:27
  Speaker 5: and black pen comes up. Here's our agreement. But when
• 50:30
  Speaker 5: you're fried, when you're and you guys know this and
• 50:33
  Speaker 5: you're fried, you don't want to do that. You don't
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: want to play by the rules. You're like, no, no, no,
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: I have more to say. And you're like, we made
• 50:39
  Speaker 5: this agreement. We have to stick this disagreement.
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: And it's hard. It's hard for both men and women.
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: We're problem solves, we're fixers.
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: You guys want the emotional connection and it feels safe
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: and you're not smothered.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: And it's especially when you're you know, you're triggered, right,
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: you know, and you're you're pre friends with Cortex isn't.
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: Online, it's gone. You know, your goes space.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: The animal rank comes on and then you know, you
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: just you react and I'm very guilty that I do.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Have you know, just one kind of final question for
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: you that kind of wraps this full circle. What have
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: you learned from relationships that entrepreneurship couldn't teach you?
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: What have I learned about relationships that from.
• 51:22
  Speaker 6: Your relations your relationship, Yeah, from your person? You didn't
• 51:25
  Speaker 6: learn in like your career.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you seem successful in both, so.
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: You know, I I.
• 51:33
  Speaker 5: There's a lot of parallels to it. But I think
• 51:37
  Speaker 5: one of the things that I've learned in relationship is
• 51:39
  Speaker 5: how much bigger life is than business. And I am
• 51:44
  Speaker 5: I love money, I love making money. I love the
• 51:47
  Speaker 5: finer things of life. I love buying flour, wheelers and things.
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: And don't get me wrong, there's an absolute place for that.
• 51:52
  Speaker 5: But I was very I kind of call it that
• 51:54
  Speaker 5: my life of one point zero and two point zero
• 51:56
  Speaker 5: one point zero was business to then live life like
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: I'm going to build a business and now it's like
• 52:03
  Speaker 5: what type of life do I want? And I'm going
• 52:05
  Speaker 5: to bring my business to surround that and support that.
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: And I think a lot of guys have a hard
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: time with this because they hear, you know, don't worry
• 52:13
  Speaker 5: about the money, or don't go after the chase, or
• 52:15
  Speaker 5: don't go hunt, and I'm like, no, no, you don't understand.
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: Like I think, the thing.
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: About love and connection and relationship that I've learned that
• 52:22
  Speaker 5: business hasn't been able to teach me is just how much.
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: Bigger life really is. A piece of paper is a
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: piece of paper, and it has a value, and you
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: can exchange it for some stuff, but your heart is infinite.
• 52:33
  Speaker 5: Love is infinite, and action is infinite. It's way bigger
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: than money, and that can't be bought. You can buy
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: tools and things and whatever else, but to take two
• 52:43
  Speaker 5: human beings, like business is a transaction. I buy, you sell,
• 52:47
  Speaker 5: you sell I buy. We grow together.
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: There's something that's just, in my opinion, wildly erotic and
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: sensual and beautiful about that experience about two human beings
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: choosing each other. It's saying I don't know you. I
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: don't know.
• 53:03
  Speaker 5: I only know what you're showing me, and I know
• 53:06
  Speaker 5: that there's infinite layers beneath this. Might like them, I
• 53:11
  Speaker 5: might not like them. I don't know. But what I'm
• 53:13
  Speaker 5: willing to do is live this life and play this
• 53:16
  Speaker 5: game with you. And it's an infinite game. And I think,
• 53:20
  Speaker 5: I think it's a beautiful thing.
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: I actually believe.
• 53:23
  Speaker 5: I know monogamy is kind of a new thing, but
• 53:24
  Speaker 5: like I believe that monogamy is so divine and it's
• 53:29
  Speaker 5: so beautiful, and it's so it calls you into really
• 53:33
  Speaker 5: really really unfamiliar territory and it challenges you in ways
• 53:37
  Speaker 5: that money or business or line items or top and
• 53:43
  Speaker 5: bottom line. It can't give that to you. So to me,
• 53:45
  Speaker 5: love connection union. If you can figure that part out,
• 53:49
  Speaker 5: the business part is really.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: Simple well, and I think.
• 53:52
  Speaker 5: The challenge of love is so much more sexy to
• 53:54
  Speaker 5: me than the challenge of business.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: Absolutely in the parallel, it might be the most beautiful
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: parallel because I think that that's what business teaches you.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: It allows you to see how important love truly is.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: You know, the love doc is going through quite a
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: transition right now, and you know it's a we're up
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: leveling and all it is is God's way of challenging,
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: challenging us so that we can grow to this next level.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: And I know that in the depths of my soul.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: I believe it at my cellular level. But I also
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: it's it's it means longer work days. You know. I'm
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: pulled in lots of different directions, as is Sarah, and
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: it's making me see the love I have for my
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: husband on this whole new level, and the love that
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: I have for the people in my life. You know.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: So it's this beautiful parallel that you can't really see one.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, you can see one without the other, but man,
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: nothing challenges you, like entrepreneurship.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Nothing and nothing challenges.
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: You in the person that you love the deepense. That's right.
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: So this has been such a great conversation, John, Thank
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: you so much.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: Could go on forever.
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: I know we could talk to you for long, Tiver.
• 55:03
  Speaker 6: And let me just say, as a scientific expert in narcissism,
• 55:07
  Speaker 6: I'm not a clinician. I can't diagnose, but I don't
• 55:10
  Speaker 6: see it, okay, because here's what I see. I see
• 55:12
  Speaker 6: somebody that's incredibly bold, incredibly honest, somebody who is willing
• 55:17
  Speaker 6: to be uncomfortable, somebody who is very, very accountable. I mean,
• 55:20
  Speaker 6: if you follow you closely, you'll actually see that you
• 55:24
  Speaker 6: take radical accountability when things happen in your life, right,
• 55:26
  Speaker 6: like radical You'll be like I own that one hundred
• 55:29
  Speaker 6: and fifty percent.
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: And you know, you might be in great.
• 55:32
  Speaker 6: Shape and you take pictures with your shirt off, But
• 55:35
  Speaker 6: how are you supposed to inspire people who want to
• 55:37
  Speaker 6: get in shape if you don't show them that it's possible.
• 55:39
  Speaker 6: So I think we need to we need to take
• 55:41
  Speaker 6: the N word off the table here. And if you
• 55:43
  Speaker 6: really want to get to know Sean, you know Sean
• 55:45
  Speaker 6: tell us where people can find you.
• 55:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm Sean Waling dot com, mindsashep dot com all
• 55:51
  Speaker 5: over social media.
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah awesome.
• 55:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well I really there's so many things in your
• 55:56
  Speaker 6: content that just resonate with me, and I'm not scared
• 55:58
  Speaker 6: to rattle any care. So I really enjoyed this conversation.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: We only want truth tellers and truth seekers, so thank
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: you for being a truth teller and a truth seeker.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: We appreciate you so much.
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: A pleasure.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Sean, thank you, and to all of our listeners,
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: please continue to tune in, like, subscribe, follow, leave us
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: a comment, write us a review, reach out to me
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: personally with any tips, any topics that you want to
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: hear about at rain at the lovedoc and until next time, peace,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: love and perspective