Latest / True Crime California / TCC #10 Dorothea Puente Part 2
Transcript
- 0:04Speaker 1: Dark Cast Network. Out of the shadows come the best
- 0:07indie podcasts. Hey everyone, welcome to True Crime California. I'm
- 0:17your host, Cindy, and I'm glad you're here. Hey guys,
- 0:32we're back with part two of the Tale of Dorothea Plente.
- 0:38I have a little vocal fry and I'm really, like,
- 0:43I don't know, paranoid about it because I hear all
- 0:46of these reviews of podcasts or people talking about them
- 0:49like I can't stand their vocal fry, and I'm like,
- 0:52I don't think people realize how much vocal fry you
- 0:55get when you're talking this much like you can drink water,
- 0:58you can like do whatever you want to do, like
- 1:00try to project, and like you just have it. It
- 1:04just happens sometimes, and I get really paranoid about it. Also,
- 1:08I'm getting a little sick. My son has had the
- 1:10flu for like five days, which is unheard of for him,
- 1:13and he's passing it on to me, which I'm really
- 1:15excited about because tomorrow's my birthday and I think I'm
- 1:18gonna wake up with a fever, so that's gonna be
- 1:20really cool. Anyway, my dogs are in the bed with me,
- 1:26being loud and crazy and making this very difficult, as
- 1:29they do every time I record, which is just so fun. Anyway,
- 1:32I guess this is maybe like my little energy surge
- 1:35before I go down with the flu. So this is
- 1:39part two of Dorothya Pente. I actually recorded some of
- 1:42it when I was doing part one before I realized like, hey,
- 1:45this is gonna have to be two episodes, so I'm
- 1:49gonna sort of just like pop it in. And as
- 1:51a reminder, Dorothea had just been released on her own
- 1:55recognizance from jail, meaning she couldn't afford to pay the bail,
- 2:00but the judge just let her out, assuming she would
- 2:02show up for the court date. This was for the
- 2:04poisoning of an eighty two year old woman and then
- 2:07the man Malcolm Mackenzie, who she robbed him of his
- 2:12pinky ring while he was staring at her, immobilized because
- 2:15she had poisoned him. So she is going to go
- 2:18to trial for those things, but she is out and
- 2:21able to sort of live her life before she goes
- 2:24in front of a judge. And while she is out
- 2:27and free, she plans and executes the first murder for
- 2:32profit that she she's gonna do a lot of these,
- 2:36and this is like the first one now I know,
- 2:38with Esther Bugsby. In the previous episode. Esther did die
- 2:43about a year after Dorotheas stopped poisoning her, and it
- 2:46is thought that potentially part of why she died was
- 2:48because of the poisonings, but that is not really attributed
- 2:51to her as like an actual murder. So we're gonna
- 2:54talk about her first murder while she is out on bail.
- 3:00While out on bail, Dorothea wasted no time trying to
- 3:03find her next victim, and while at a bar, you'll
- 3:07never believe she met another man. However, this man, Harold Monroe,
- 3:12was actually married and was also dying of terminal cancer.
- 3:17He was also a crazy alcoholic before he got too sick.
- 3:22He introduced Dorothea to his wife, Ruth Monroe. Ruth and
- 3:27Dorothea got along very well and quickly decided to go
- 3:30into business together. Dorothea was working as a cook at
- 3:34the bar. Again like trying to be on the straight
- 3:36and narrow for a minute, and they decided to start
- 3:39a catering business together. I guess Ruth had experience on
- 3:43the business side, so they figured they could work together
- 3:46and make some money. Now, The first thing that Dorothea
- 3:48did was she convinced Ruth to open a joint bank
- 3:51account and to move all of her savings into this
- 3:54joint account to help open the business. And this was
- 3:57like some thousands of dollars. She also had Ruth move
- 4:03into the house at fourteen twenty six f Street since
- 4:06her husband was now in hospice at the VA Hospital.
- 4:09Ruth had a lot of friends in the area, as
- 4:11well as four grown children with whom she spent nearly
- 4:14every Sunday. But for whatever reason, you know, I think
- 4:18Dorothea charmed her. She did that thing, and she got
- 4:20her in her web. One Sunday, a few months after
- 4:25she'd moved in, on April twenty fourth, nineteen eighty two,
- 4:29while at the beauty parlor, Ruth saw one of her
- 4:32many friends and told her that she was so sick
- 4:35she thought she might die. She said she couldn't go
- 4:39to the doctor because she couldn't even remember eating dinner
- 4:41or going to bed. The friend later said she appeared dazed,
- 4:46scared and had no idea what was going on. Ruth
- 4:51rushed out of the parlor, saying she was going to
- 4:53go get into bed. Prior to this, Ruth had always
- 4:57been a happy, vibrant person, full life, full of love,
- 5:01so this was really scary for her friend, and it
- 5:04was really scary for her kids, who would come to
- 5:06visit her at F Street and started to notice that,
- 5:10even though Ruth never really drank before, they would find
- 5:12her drinking a green liquid which she said was cremmedamnth
- 5:17and that Dorothea was giving it to her to calm
- 5:19her nerves over the state of her husband and her marriage. Now,
- 5:23on the night of April twenty fourth, which was the
- 5:26same day that her friend saw her at the beauty parlor,
- 5:28Ruth's son came over to F Street to check on
- 5:31his mother and found her in quite a state. Dorothea
- 5:35quickly rushed him out of the house, saying that she
- 5:37would care for Ruth. The next two days. Her kids
- 5:40came by or would call, but were constantly turned away
- 5:44by Dorothea, saying Ruth was being seen by doctors and
- 5:47that she had just been given a shot to help
- 5:49her sleep so she couldn't be disturbed. Then, around five
- 5:54thirty am on April twenty eighth, Ruth's daughter Rosie got
- 5:58a call from Dorothea saying to hurry over and that
- 6:01she had called the paramedics as Ruth wasn't responding. When
- 6:05Rosie got to the house, Dorothea was in tears and
- 6:07told her her mother had died. Dorothea told the paramedics
- 6:11that Ruth had a heart condition, but nobody knew about that.
- 6:15She also kind of hinted that she may have overdosed,
- 6:19which is weird because like, wouldn't she have called, wouldn't
- 6:22she have said that when she called nine one one.
- 6:25Ruth's body was taken for aptopsy and some weird stuff
- 6:27was found, which I think is what Dorothea was trying
- 6:30to set them up for, like, oh, maybe she odeed,
- 6:32you know, trying to get ahead of it. First, it
- 6:35looked as though she hadn't eaten in days. The only
- 6:38thing in her stomach was creme demnth. Second, her liver
- 6:43was enlarged and had fatty damage to it, like she
- 6:45had a fatty liver, meaning either alcoholism or poisoning. Now, Ruth,
- 6:51as I said, rarely drank, to the point that her
- 6:54kids were surprised to see her with the creme de menth,
- 6:56so it definitely was not alcoholism. Samples were for testing
- 7:00and came back with lethal amounts of codeine in Ruth's
- 7:04system now also thilan all because it's like a tylan
- 7:06old codeine is how they used to prescribe it. But
- 7:09it was the codeine that did it, even though there
- 7:11was enough tilan all in her system to also kill her.
- 7:14It was a pretty gnarly combo. Her death was ruled
- 7:18undetermined because suicide wasn't ruled out, and shockingly, she didn't
- 7:22have the codine prescribed to her. I bet we all
- 7:25know who did. Though, the family got together and finally
- 7:29someone said, hey, I suspect Dorothea killed Ruth. And the
- 7:32family was split on this, but the ones who agreed
- 7:34with that went to police without evidence, though Dorothea again
- 7:39escaped any punishment for her crimes. In fact, because the
- 7:44police said there was no proof, some of the kids
- 7:46went back to believing their mother had killed herself, citing
- 7:49the failure of her marriage, her husband's illness, and her
- 7:52hatred of aging. Immediately after Ruth's death, Dorothea emptied their
- 7:58joint bank account and bought a plane ticket to Mexico
- 8:01because she knew the heat was on. She knew the
- 8:03kids were on to her, and she thought it was
- 8:06a good time to get out of Dodge before leaving
- 8:09for Mexico, though, she did something so stupid that it
- 8:13makes me wonder if she actually wanted to be caught.
- 8:18Dorothea decided to call her friend who she'd known for
- 8:21about a year, a woman named Dorothy who lived nearby,
- 8:25and asked to come over. Dorothea was drunk and upset
- 8:29about Ruth and talked about how she was being accused
- 8:32by the family and how the cops were bothering her,
- 8:35and Dorothy just kind of sat there and listened and
- 8:37was like, this is kind of fucking crazy. She then
- 8:40mixed Dorothy a drink, after which Dorothy passed out. When
- 8:46she woke up, some of her checks were gone, and
- 8:48she found an empty pill bottle and some red liquid
- 8:51in the blender that Dorothea had used to mix her drink. Now,
- 8:56she had only mixed Dorothy a drink, and when Dorothy said,
- 8:59aren't you go to drink with me, Dorothea replied, I'm
- 9:02only drinking vodka, So she was like drinking straight vodka,
- 9:06but of course had time to mix a drink for
- 9:08her friend. Now, Dorothy took this liquid scooped it into
- 9:13the prescription bottle and called the police. She knew who
- 9:17Dorothea was and gave them her name, and Dorothea had
- 9:21also told her her plan to flee to Mexico. She
- 9:24was like, she drugged me, she robbed me. She lives
- 9:26at you know, fourteen twenty six f Street. She's trying
- 9:29to go to Mexico. Dorothea was arrested on May nineteenth
- 9:33and had Dorothy's checks on her when she was taken
- 9:36into custody. She ended up for this getting five years
- 9:41in prison as part of a plea deal that she
- 9:44first declined before she realized that the DA had information
- 9:48on esther Busby. After the DA brought that up, she
- 9:52quickly agreed to five years and went to do her time.
- 9:57While in prison, the family of ruthman Ro called the
- 10:00DA and said, hey, we think that she maybe killed
- 10:04our mother. Seeing her go to prison for drugging and
- 10:07robbing people was all it took to bring the family
- 10:09together on that subject. But unfortunately at this time there
- 10:12wasn't much to be done about it due to lack
- 10:15of evidence. But we will come back to this later.
- 10:20Dorothea did her time in prison and was released early,
- 10:23once again for good behavior and work credits in nineteen
- 10:26eighty five, and I want to say that good behavior
- 10:29and work credits are absolutely not an indicator of your
- 10:32chances for reoffending. Obviously, while in prison, she started a
- 10:37penpower relationship with seventy seven year old Everson Gilmouth, who
- 10:40went by Gil and he lived in Oregon and got
- 10:43about seven hundred dollars a month in social Security and
- 10:46pension money combined. He also owned an airstream in which
- 10:50he lived, and he lived on his sister's property in Oregon,
- 10:53and he also had a really nice new red Ford
- 10:57pickup truck. The two entered into relationship while Dorothea was
- 11:01still in prison, and on her release in August nineteen
- 11:04eighty five, ever, since I guess I should call him,
- 11:07Gil was there waiting for her in his nice red truck.
- 11:12Gil had been widowed, and was is that the word
- 11:16for it, widowed? He's a widower and had been looking
- 11:19to get remarried ever since his wife died. I have
- 11:22no idea why, but he chose to write to multiple
- 11:25women in prison to try to find his next wife.
- 11:29I'm not really sure what that's about, but that's how
- 11:31he went about finding his next wife and that's how
- 11:34he met Dorothea. Now that you had already agreed to
- 11:37live together in the upstairs unit at fourteen twenty six
- 11:40f Street, which she had kept up rent payments on.
- 11:42By allowing Ricardo to cast her social Security checks while
- 11:46she was locked up, she also fooled Ricardo and Gil
- 11:50into thinking her crimes were far less serious than they were,
- 11:53which again is sort of herm and as long as
- 11:55it works, she's going to keep lying. Ever since, sister
- 12:00was actually able to read up on Dorothea, because remember,
- 12:02at one point she was like a socialite that went
- 12:04to prison and then she goes in for five years again.
- 12:08So she's very worried about about Gil going to live
- 12:11with Dorothea, and she even went as far as calling
- 12:14the Sacramento Police when she hadn't heard from him for
- 12:16a few days, which I'm going to say right now
- 12:19was a very very smart move. Unfortunately, the timing was off,
- 12:24so in this instance, he was still alive and well,
- 12:27and he was really upset with his sister for doing
- 12:30this and basically called her and told her to fuck off.
- 12:33It was actually the last time they ever spoke, which
- 12:35is really really sad. From there, his sister did keep
- 12:38trying to get in touch, but with no luck, probably
- 12:42because her calling the cops pissed off and spooked Dorothea,
- 12:47who moved up the timeline on her plan. Now. Eventually,
- 12:51his sister, whose name was Reba, received a letter from
- 12:55Gil saying he and Dorothea were to be married, and
- 12:58then shortly after this letter, Dorothea wrote her a letter
- 13:02saying something similar and that Gil was going to Palm
- 13:05Springs to sell his woodworkings. Shortly after that, she got
- 13:10a mail gram from Gil, supposedly Gil, saying he was
- 13:14leaving Dorothea and moving south. She received another one saying
- 13:18he was marrying another woman. Altogether, this terrified her because
- 13:23a mail gram is typed, so there's no way to
- 13:26prove who sent the letter because there's no handwriting. But
- 13:29she'd already checked on Gill once it didn't go over well,
- 13:32so while she was worried about her brother, she basically
- 13:35left it alone. And I want to call out that
- 13:37during these following months, she would receive these mail grams
- 13:40occasionally from a woman named Irene, who said that she
- 13:44was Gil's new wife to be and would give intermittent
- 13:48updates on Gil. But she never actually talked to Gil again,
- 13:51and she never even got another mail gram from him.
- 13:54She also said that it seemed like all of these
- 13:57mailgrams were being written by the same person. In the
- 14:00they matched the first letter sent to her by Dorothea,
- 14:04which makes sense. Meanwhile, back at f Street, Ricardo Rica
- 14:12is still living in the downstairs part of the house
- 14:15and he really grew to like Gil, who putted around
- 14:18carving wood and enjoying his days while Dorothea seemingly doted
- 14:22over him. Ricardo had planned to go to Mexico to
- 14:24see his family around Christmas nineteen eighty five, and before
- 14:27he did, he noticed that Gil's health was starting to decline,
- 14:30ever so slightly. Nothing major. He's older, you know, he's
- 14:34seventy seven or seventy eight, but he seemed to start
- 14:36having heart issues that sometimes bothered him. Nothing out of
- 14:42the ordinary, we'll say, so Ricardo kind of keeps this
- 14:45in mind, and then he leaves for Mexico for the holiday,
- 14:48and upon his return in January nineteen eighty six, he
- 14:51found that there was no Gill anywhere. Dorothea just basically said, oh,
- 14:57it didn't work out. He went back to Oregon and
- 15:00Ricardo was like, Oh, that's a bummer, and that was
- 15:03kind of it. Now, a few months prior, in September,
- 15:06she had hired a man to help around the house.
- 15:09This man, Ismail Flores, was now driving Gil's truck in January,
- 15:14and according to Dorothy Dorothy Dorothea, this is because Gil
- 15:20had sold it to him before leaving. She said, he
- 15:22also sold off his airstream and that was kind of
- 15:25the end of that as far as Ricardo was concerned,
- 15:27because again he trusts and believes Dorothea. Now, as for Ismail,
- 15:33he had met Dorothea It's going to shock you wear
- 15:36in a bar, which her favorite place to meet people.
- 15:39She offered him a job doing handyman work around the
- 15:42house and he did things like painting, gardening, and building
- 15:45things for her from time to time. Now, at one
- 15:48point in mid December, she asked him to build her
- 15:52a box about six feet high by two to three
- 15:56feet wide, you know, like a coffin. She said she
- 16:00needed it for storage for books and random items she
- 16:03wanted to hold onto, but also wanted to get out
- 16:05of the house. And of course she can't just go,
- 16:08you know, buy some cardboard boxes at like a moving
- 16:12supply place, like she's got to have him build her
- 16:15a fucking coffin. So Ismail he just did as he
- 16:19was asked. He built her this box. Then once she
- 16:22had filled it with books I e. Gil, Ismail loaded
- 16:26it into the red Ford truck he now owned because
- 16:29she'd already sold it to him, and she actually gave
- 16:31it to him for a discounted price in return for
- 16:33his work, which is so messed up, and had him
- 16:37drive her to take it to storage. On the way,
- 16:40Dorothea was like, you know what, I actually just want
- 16:43to get rid of this stuff. Can you just dump
- 16:45it on the side of the road by the river.
- 16:47So he did. He was just like sure, I'll go
- 16:50push it down on the river bank, and I think
- 16:53Dorothea's hope was that the water would rise and take
- 16:55the box away. Later on, Ismail went to sell the truck,
- 16:59but he didn't have a bill of sal so he
- 17:00took it to Dorothea, who forged Gil's signature saying it's mine.
- 17:04He gave it to me, and Ismail was kind of like,
- 17:07uh okay, and so's he's just a trusting man. I
- 17:12don't really know. On New Year's Day, ever since Gilmouth's
- 17:15body was found in the box in the river by
- 17:18a man fishing. Sadly, the body was too decomposed to
- 17:22determine a cause of death or even figure out who
- 17:25it was, so it was filed as a John Doe
- 17:27in Sutter County, which is near Sacramento County. And that
- 17:31was it for a while for poor gil who also
- 17:33was found with a bunch of garbage in the box.
- 17:35So that's the kind of person Dorothea is. Meanwhile, Dorothea
- 17:40is definitely still caching his pension and social Security checks,
- 17:44but Gil is no more from here. Dorothea again opened
- 17:49a boarding house, despite her parole specifically forbidding this. Ricardo
- 17:53didn't mind and eventually even moved out of the house,
- 17:56allowing Dorothea to take it over entirely and rent out
- 17:59the rooms under the radar of the government or her
- 18:02parole officer, because again, like she's not allowed to be
- 18:06doing this, they have no idea what she's doing. According
- 18:09to her parole officer, she's just renting a room, but
- 18:12in fact she's turning this into another boarding house, which
- 18:16I'm going to tell you right now becomes a house
- 18:19of horrors. Again, she took in many alcoholics and elderly,
- 18:23but did not provide care in the way she had previously. Instead,
- 18:28all she did was basically feed them and do their laundry,
- 18:30but otherwise mostly left them to their own devices. With
- 18:33one very unsurprising caveat. They were not allowed to open
- 18:38their own mail. Dorothea had control over that and would
- 18:41open all their checks and cash them and give each
- 18:45one a very small allowance. Now, Dorothya had quite a
- 18:49few people coming in and out of the house, and
- 18:51at one point she linked up with someone who helped
- 18:53place unwanted people and who obviously didn't know who she was.
- 18:56So she was giving her alcoholics, people with mental health
- 18:59isish shoose, people that were just difficult to place and
- 19:03who were needing in need of care. And this woman
- 19:06sent Dorothea three or four people over the months between
- 19:09nineteen eighty seven and nineteen eighty eight, and we will
- 19:13talk about all of them, but right now I want
- 19:14to focus on the one who I think was brought
- 19:18into her from two social workers, and this is kind
- 19:21of the start of Dorothea's downfall. This man's name was
- 19:25Alvaro bert Montoya. He was fifty one and had lived
- 19:29the last five years in a detoc center, but was
- 19:32not able to stay sober. He was kind of sent
- 19:35to Dorothea as a way of minimizing harm to himself.
- 19:38They were like, Okay, he's not going to stop drinking.
- 19:40We can't keep in control of him. We'll give him
- 19:43to her, and you know, she seems to have away
- 19:46with people, so we'll just let him live there now.
- 19:50Bert was a mentally ill but also very sweet and
- 19:53very harmless man. The danger he posed was only to
- 19:56himself due to suicidal thoughts, sorry hearing voices, and not
- 20:01being able to care for himself. He said that he
- 20:03would often hear his father, who had died, telling him
- 20:06to kill himself so that they could be together. So
- 20:09he's definitely very very mentally ill, but he's not wanting
- 20:13to hurt anyone else, and he was very well liked
- 20:15by everybody that knew him. The two social workers who
- 20:20brought him to Dorothea were at first really happy with
- 20:22how things were going. Bert had gained some weight, he
- 20:25was clean and showered, he had nice clothing, and he
- 20:28seemed to be taking his meds. So Dorothea was definitely
- 20:31giving him a higher level of care and She even
- 20:34allowed him to drink a little bit and had set
- 20:36a tab up at the nearby bar so that he
- 20:38could go have a few beers and eat a burrito
- 20:41every week, like once or twice a week. Basically, he
- 20:44led a simple life and seemed to thrive under Dorothea's care,
- 20:48at least at first. After just a few months of
- 20:52being with Dorothea, in April nineteen eighty eight, Bert came
- 20:56back to the Detok Center and said that Dorothea had
- 20:58been drugging him. He stayed the night and said he
- 21:01didn't want to go back because she made him do
- 21:03all sorts of work and was not nice to him,
- 21:05but because he was mentally ill and because they didn't
- 21:08have good resources, the social workers convinced him to go
- 21:12back to Dorothea, which he did the next day. And
- 21:15I want to say that this is a big problem
- 21:18for you know, in the mental health field. People will
- 21:20say things like this and if they have you know,
- 21:24schizophrenia or kind of a history of making things up,
- 21:28they're not going to be taken seriously. And the problem
- 21:31with that is in this instance is a great, you know,
- 21:34example of when they need to be taken seriously. But
- 21:37it's very difficult to know what is real and what isn't,
- 21:40and so I think, especially when in situations like this,
- 21:43they just did the best they could, and they're like,
- 21:45go back, we see that you're fine. There's no reason
- 21:48for you to not be there. So he goes back
- 21:50to Dorothea, and she's pissed. Obviously this is a close call,
- 21:55especially considering her barely hidden past, so she's got to
- 21:58lock him down. Bert remained with her for a few
- 22:02more months, with Dorothea cashing his checks giving him this
- 22:05small allowance, and he started to kind of get a
- 22:09little more out of control, I think, because he wasn't
- 22:12happy there. At one point in July nineteen eighty eight,
- 22:15Bert got ahold of some extra money by recycling some
- 22:17cans and got himself real, real drunk. This again really
- 22:23pissed Dorothea off, as she hated drunks despite being one herself.
- 22:27This is another part of her self loathing psychology, which
- 22:30is super weird. Then, in August nineteen eighty eight, Bert
- 22:34went to the bar, had a beer and a burrito,
- 22:37and then collapsed on the ground. He was carried back
- 22:40to f Street, where Dorothea was very worried about him. Yeah, right,
- 22:45And then on August twenty fourth, Dorothea caught him drinking
- 22:48in the street. So at this point she's getting sick
- 22:51of him, obviously, his drinking one beer and collapsing, she's
- 22:55starting to poison him, and after the twenty fourth of
- 22:59August she was done with him. He was never seen
- 23:03again after that. Luckily, this man, unlike many of her difficult,
- 23:07wayward lost soul tenants, as I mentioned, was very well
- 23:11liked and looked after by these two social workers and
- 23:13anybody else who knew him really liked him. So when
- 23:17he missed a doctor's appointment on August twenty ninth, the
- 23:20social workers were notified and came to find out what
- 23:22was going on. Dorothea told them that Bert had gone
- 23:26to Mexico to see her family, which she does not have.
- 23:32So this is just a crazy fucking lie. Like I said,
- 23:35during this time, she was catching all her tenants checks
- 23:38and even posing as them to get her hands on
- 23:40their prescriptions, which included sedatives of course, antipsychotics, and other
- 23:45hardcore pharmaceuticals. Anyway, so the social workers keep trying to
- 23:49get a hold of Bert, and Dorothea kept saying he's
- 23:51in Mexico. He'll be back soon. Finally, one of them said,
- 23:55just before November. We need to see him by the
- 23:58first or he's going to lose all of his benefits,
- 24:01which obviously is going to be a problem for Dorothea
- 24:04because she wants the money to keep coming in. Dorothea
- 24:07promised he'd be back by then, but of course he wasn't.
- 24:11She said his brother took him to Utah or somewhere
- 24:14before she could have him check in with them. Finally,
- 24:18the social workers are like, fuck this. They call the
- 24:20cops and they asked them to check it out, and shockingly,
- 24:24the cops did come and check it out. It's mid
- 24:30November at this point, and the cops go to fourteen
- 24:32twenty six f Street and they asked Dorothea if they
- 24:35can speak with Bert. Dorothea said, oh, he's with his
- 24:38brother or brother in law. And one of her tenants
- 24:41who was interviewed, said the same thing. Now, when this
- 24:45tenant was done talking to police, he was like, oh,
- 24:47hold on a second, and he handed them a piece
- 24:50of paper. Now, the cops go downstairs and they read this,
- 24:54and on this piece of paper it said, she's making
- 24:56me lie to you. So the cops then find out
- 25:00way to meet up with this tenant, and he met
- 25:02them down the street and told them he hadn't seen
- 25:04Bert in months now. Also around this time, Dorothea had
- 25:09employed a number of prisoners from a minimum security sort
- 25:12of halfway house to come do work for her in
- 25:14her yard. This included digging a lot of holes in
- 25:17trenches and sometimes filling them up with concrete like the
- 25:21following day kind of thing. She would pay them hourly
- 25:24for their work and gave them extra money to keep
- 25:26their mouths closed about exactly what they were doing in
- 25:29the yard. None of them knew why, but they all agreed,
- 25:32because why wouldn't they. Before the cops were called, one
- 25:35of the social workers received a call from a man
- 25:37claiming to be Bert's brother in law, saying he'd taken
- 25:41him to Shreveport, Utah, which very much is not a place.
- 25:47Shreveport is in Louisiana, and when the social worker asked
- 25:51to speak with Bert, this man refused. This turned out
- 25:54to be one of those inmates. Which is so bold
- 25:58of Dorothea to do that and not expect to get caught,
- 26:00Like what is she thinking? So anyway, she has these
- 26:04inmates doing all this like unscrupulous work for her just bold.
- 26:09She's so bold if nothing else. So the cops show
- 26:12up and they're like, Okay, Bert's not here. We have
- 26:15this tenant saying that she paid him to lie to us.
- 26:19We need to get to the bottom of this. So
- 26:21they show back up and they ask her, hey, can
- 26:23we look around and can we dig in your yard?
- 26:26And again this request didn't come from nowhere. They had
- 26:29been watching Dorothea and waiting for her to slip up
- 26:32since Ruth and Rose death. Like remember, the family went
- 26:35to the police and said, we think she killed our mom,
- 26:39and the police strongly agreed with this, but again they
- 26:42had no proof. So now they've got this call about her,
- 26:46about Bert, and they're like, all right, we're gonna take this,
- 26:50you know it. And they didn't downplay or ignore the
- 26:52call because they had so many other things on her.
- 26:55So her cute little lady act is no longer working now.
- 27:00While they're at the house and before they start digging
- 27:02in the yard, they did mention to her like, hey,
- 27:04you're going to go back to jail for running this
- 27:06boarding house because this is a parole violation. And they
- 27:09said that she was like really calm about that and
- 27:11was like, okay, no problem, totally understand. They then asked,
- 27:15you know, can we dig in the yard, and she
- 27:16straight up said yes. She was like, yeah, go ahead.
- 27:20Her defense later included, this is so silly. If I
- 27:23killed someone and buried them in my yard, why would
- 27:26I tell you to go ahead and dig there. So
- 27:28it's sort of like, again, she's trying to get ahead
- 27:30of it, but she's so fucking dumb, and she does
- 27:32dumb things really often, And the problem I think is
- 27:36that she got away with doing dumb things a lot
- 27:38and making dumb lies and people just like either ignored
- 27:42it or believed her. So this emboldened her to keep
- 27:45doing this kind of shit. So now the cops are
- 27:48looking through a house. They find not only a number
- 27:50of pill bottles of people no longer living with Dorothea
- 27:53and with unknown whereabouts, they also find in her yard
- 27:57a number of bones. Now, at first they're unsure of
- 28:01what kind of bones, maybe animal, And it wasn't until
- 28:05they found a shoe with a foot inside that they
- 28:07felt confident that they were finding human bodies. Now, Remember,
- 28:13as far as they know, they're only looking for Bert Montoya,
- 28:16and the shoe, foot and body that went with it
- 28:19were too decomposed to be Bert's, so that was very
- 28:22concerning for them. Dorothea was then detained and the grounds
- 28:26were secured. She was interviewed for hours and told so
- 28:29many lies, Like I actually watched one of these. You
- 28:31can go to archive dot org and watch her interviews
- 28:35and it's a forty minute interrogation and the lies she
- 28:37told were endless. She once again said she had family
- 28:41in Mexico, that Ricardo was her cousin or nephew, yet
- 28:45she had no idea what the bodies were doing there,
- 28:48and of course her amazing defense of why would I
- 28:50incriminate myself like that? Now, after she was interviewed, she
- 28:53was allowed to go back home since the body was
- 28:55not that of Bert, and there was no proof that
- 28:57Dorothea had actually put that body there, So I mean,
- 29:01they know, but they can't prove it. So they're like,
- 29:03all right, lady, go home. You can't really go anywhere.
- 29:06We're securing the you know, the location, we're going to
- 29:09start digging. So the police kind of stay there overnight
- 29:12and they resumed their digging the first thing the next morning. Meanwhile, upstairs,
- 29:17Dorothea and one of her tenants she didn't seem to
- 29:20want to kill, Mervin John McCauley, were getting ready to
- 29:23leave the premises. Dorothea told him she needed to get
- 29:27away and asked that he accompanied her to the hotel
- 29:30down the street where Ricardo worked. He agreed, helping her
- 29:33pack up the money and items that she might need,
- 29:35just kind of basically wait, know, she's going to make
- 29:38her escape. I want to note that while he dug
- 29:41holes and did chores for her, this man didn't seem
- 29:43to have any idea of what she was up to,
- 29:45and she wasn't at this point under arrest, So he
- 29:47didn't really do anything wrong in this situation, at least
- 29:50not like legally speaking. And I will say that he
- 29:53was arrested leader, as was Ismail, the like her house,
- 29:58the carpenter guy that she hired around the house. As
- 30:01far as I know, neither of them actually saw any
- 30:03jail time because they didn't actually do anything. They were
- 30:06just kind of idiots. So Dorothea gets dressed and she
- 30:10goes downstairs, and she's wearing this like white or white,
- 30:13this red coat and this cute dress, and she goes
- 30:16downstairs to the detectives and she's like, hey, can I
- 30:20just go get a cup of coffee at my nephew's
- 30:22hotel where he works down the street. The police didn't
- 30:26really want to let her go, but at the same time,
- 30:28they hadn't really found any other bodies, They had nothing
- 30:31to really hold her, and she's not under arrest, so
- 30:34they're like, okay, yeah, you can just go get coffee.
- 30:36Just come back, you know, hurry back. And one of
- 30:38the detectives even walked her to the curb or to
- 30:41her car so she could get to the hotel. I
- 30:43think she walked, but there's a photo of him like
- 30:45walking her off the premises. It's like a famous photo
- 30:48because the cops fucked this up so bad, like how
- 30:50did they let her go? And they got absolutely like
- 30:53torn apart, you know in the community, and you know,
- 30:57the newspapers were like idiot, fucking caught, like what are
- 31:00they doing? So anyway, she leaves and she and John
- 31:04get to the hotel where Ricardo, her not family member,
- 31:07is not working. From there, she calls a cab and
- 31:11uses the three thousand dollars she hasn't stolen money to
- 31:14get herself out of the city. Going all the way
- 31:16down to Los Angeles, and it's a good thing for
- 31:19her that she left when she did, because cops found
- 31:23another body about ten minutes later and went looking for
- 31:26her at the hotel. Of course it was too late.
- 31:33Now let's go ahead and talk about the bodies they found.
- 31:36We're going to start with seventy eight year old Betty Palmer.
- 31:40She was a reclusive woman who landed at fourteen twenty
- 31:43six f Street in the fall of nineteen eighty six.
- 31:46She and Dorothea did not get along, as Betty was
- 31:49hard headed and secretive and did not like Dorothea telling
- 31:52her what to do. Within just a few months of
- 31:55her living there, Dorothea had already stolen her identity, getting
- 31:59an ID car with Betty's name and Dorothea's photo. She
- 32:02also cashed over seven thousand dollars in social Security checks
- 32:06of Betty's, mostly after she was killed. Sometime in late
- 32:10nineteen eighty six, John McCauley Mervin was asked to dig
- 32:14a hole in the front yard by Ricardo ordo Ica,
- 32:17which he did. Ricardo also didn't know what was going on,
- 32:21but Dorothea had asked him to do it, so he
- 32:23asked John McCauley. The next day he was told to
- 32:26fill it back in with dirt. This is where Betty's
- 32:29body was found, missing her head and hands, which by
- 32:34the way, were never found. They had been taken off
- 32:37to make it more difficult for her to be identified.
- 32:40So this is really fucked up, and she was actually
- 32:42Dorothea placed a statue of Saint Francis of ASSISI over her,
- 32:47which just feels like adding insult to injury. The next
- 32:51victim we're going to talk about was another seventy eight
- 32:53year old, Leona Carpenter, who came to stay with Dorothea
- 32:57in December of nineteen eighty six. Now, Leona was an
- 33:01alcoholic and prescription drug abuser who was an acquaintance of
- 33:04Dorothea's from the neighborhood. In October of nineteen eighty six,
- 33:08a few months before she came to live with Dorothea,
- 33:11Leona ended up in the hospital after an apparent overdose
- 33:13on downers. I think it was actually like dalmain, which
- 33:16doctors believed may have been intentional, so she was potentially suicidal.
- 33:22During this time, Like I said, Leona was not yet
- 33:24living with Dorothea, but Dorothea was still able to gain
- 33:27power of attorney over Leona while she was in the hospital,
- 33:31which is quite a feat and says a lot about
- 33:33Dorothea's ability to manipulate. She straight up brought a notary
- 33:40to Leona's hospital bed while she was on death's door
- 33:44and had Leona give her power of attorney so she
- 33:46could start cashing her social Security checks. Leona was in
- 33:50the hospital for a couple of months before being released
- 33:52in mid December, at which point she went and lived
- 33:55with Dorothea. As you can imagine, she ended up back
- 33:58in the hospital shortly suffering from yet another overdose. She
- 34:02went home again to Dorothea in February and promptly disappeared.
- 34:07Her body was found in the corner of the yard,
- 34:09and brain tissue samples showed she had overdosed on multiple
- 34:12prescription drugs, including codeine. So there's that one again. And
- 34:18what's crazy is that Dorothea called a plumber to take
- 34:21a look at some pipes right around the time that
- 34:24Leona went missing. The plumber had to dig a big
- 34:27hole which was left open overnight, and this hole is
- 34:31where Leona's body was found, meaning that this very well
- 34:34could have been like a crime of opportunity. Obviously, she's
- 34:38killing people, and she's probably gonna kill Leona, but the
- 34:40timing could have had to do with her being like,
- 34:42look at that nice, big hole that I didn't have
- 34:44to pay anybody to dig, or that I myself didn't
- 34:47have to dig. It would be terrible to put that
- 34:50hole to waste, and so she took this as the
- 34:53time to murder this poor old woman. The next victim
- 34:59was sixty two years James Gallup, who had moved in
- 35:02with Dorothea after having surgery, or just before having surgery
- 35:05of a benign tumor in his brain. James was an
- 35:09alcoholic who smoked two to three packs of cigarettes a
- 35:11day and as a result, as you can imagine, was
- 35:14not in great health, but not anywhere near death by
- 35:16any means. At this point, Dorothea took over medicating him
- 35:20and used his prescriptions for Dalmain to over medicate him,
- 35:23as well as other tenants. Dorothea and James didn't really
- 35:27get along, and at one point they got into a
- 35:29heated argument after James told Dorothea she could not be
- 35:33the payee on his SSI checks, so she wanted to
- 35:36be listed as the payee on his social Security checks,
- 35:40and he was like absolutely not, like I'm going to
- 35:43control my money. I'll give you what I owe you.
- 35:45And we all know how Dorothea feels about that. So,
- 35:48as you can imagine, he went missing very shortly after
- 35:52this argument. Now it's interesting to see he was actually
- 35:55scheduled for another cancer surgery as his doctor had found
- 35:58more tumors in his colon, disappeared before he could go in.
- 36:02Dorothea told people who had asked that he went to
- 36:05Los Angeles or that he simply disappeared, and she even
- 36:07told one person that he died and she had him cremated.
- 36:11So just a string of lies. Meanwhile, he's buried under
- 36:15the gazebo in her yard. And what's interesting is he
- 36:17had friends, like he had a friend at the local bar,
- 36:20a bartender, who while he was in the hospital for
- 36:24his brain surgery, he called her to like check in
- 36:27and be like, I haven't been at the bar because
- 36:28I've been in the hospital. I don't want you to
- 36:30think I would just disappear, you know, without saying goodbye.
- 36:33So this friend, when he did disappear without saying goodbye,
- 36:37she knew something was fishy, and she actually later testified
- 36:40in the trial. Now, the next victim is Vera Fay Martin.
- 36:47She came to live with Dorothea in October of nineteen
- 36:49eighty seven. She was placed by a worker who didn't
- 36:52know that Dorothea shouldn't have borders. I maybe mentioned her previously.
- 36:56I've been recording this over several days, so I apologize.
- 37:00I also have the flu, so I'm very out of it.
- 37:02So if I repeated that, I apologize. But there was
- 37:05a worker who didn't know that Dorothea shouldn't have borders tenants,
- 37:10and so she was giving her difficult to place people. Vera,
- 37:14of course, met with the same fate as the others,
- 37:16very sadly, and Dorothea continued to cast her checks while
- 37:19she lay buried in the yard. About a month after
- 37:22Vera came to live with Dorothea, the same worker placed
- 37:25sixty five year old Dorothy Miller in the f Street house.
- 37:29Dorothy was a paranoid alcoholic who got in trouble for
- 37:32petty theft just after moving in with Dorothea. That being said,
- 37:37she was sort of the liaison between Dorothea and the
- 37:41tenants who lived downstairs. So Dorothea very much ruled over
- 37:45the house sort of like a queen, and she was
- 37:47upstairs and her closest, you know, advisors were kind of
- 37:51allowed in the upstairs area, and then all of her
- 37:53subjects had to stay downstairs, and somehow Dorothy kind of
- 37:58was able to work her way into getting invited upstairs.
- 38:02She certainly wasn't like up there all the time, although
- 38:05I do think at one point before she disappeared, she
- 38:07was moved to the upstairs room, But I believe that
- 38:10was more so that Dorothea could kill her more easily,
- 38:14like medicating her and keeping her out of sight of
- 38:16the other tenants. But anyway, I found it interesting that
- 38:20she sort of became not a confidant, but she had
- 38:23a good enough relationship with Dorothea that she sort of
- 38:26was like the representative of the people of the house. However,
- 38:31when she disappeared, Dorothea of course used the excuse, oh,
- 38:35she got in trouble for stealing. She's back in jail.
- 38:38I kicked her out of the house. We'll never see
- 38:40her again. Dorothy, of course, was also found in the yard. Now,
- 38:46around this time that Dorothy went missing, one of the
- 38:49inmates that she hired to do that yard work was
- 38:51asked to clean the upstairs room where Dorothy had previously
- 38:55been sleeping. He later said he found large, foul smelling
- 38:59stain in the room which looked like slime. This was
- 39:03almost certainly vomit from Dorothy being poisoned. And I should
- 39:07mention at this time that more than one of Dorothea's
- 39:10victims were still alive when they were buried, and I
- 39:15believe Dorothy was one of them. She actually showed signs
- 39:19of trying to dig her way out of the grave,
- 39:21which is absolutely fucked up and horrifying. Also, around the
- 39:27time she went missing, Dorothea turned up at a hospital
- 39:30posing as Dorothy and asking for refills on a bunch
- 39:33of heavy sedative medications, all prescribed to Dorothy. So she
- 39:37is stealing money and identities. She has no plans to
- 39:40stop this craziness. The next victim was fifty five year
- 39:44old Benjamin Fink, a severe alcoholic who lived to drink
- 39:48is what I read, and had health issues as a result.
- 39:52He lived with Dorothea for about two months before he
- 39:54went missing. Now, during this time his brother visited him weekly,
- 39:58but even so, least at first, his brother wasn't super
- 40:02suspicious when he went missing because apparently Benjamin would drink
- 40:07heavily and then black out and go and like wander
- 40:11away and would like end up in the hospital with
- 40:14unknown injuries. So at least at first, Dorotheo sort of
- 40:18flew under the radar on this one. But you know,
- 40:21when he was found in the yard, that kind of
- 40:23put an end to that. So that sums up all
- 40:26of the victims. And to be clear, there were a
- 40:28lot of other people who lived in the house that
- 40:30did not end up getting killed by Dorothea. A lot
- 40:34of them had probably been drugged maybe didn't realize it.
- 40:38I know, like Mervyn John McCauley, she was drugging him.
- 40:43So she definitely was like hurting everyone. But those are
- 40:48the people that actually died. Now, Like I said, there
- 40:51were a lot of other things happening, poisoning people whatever.
- 40:54One of those things included Dorothea stealing her quote unquote
- 40:58friends checks after frame her for fraud and getting her
- 41:01thrown back in jail. So Dorothea and this woman, Brenda Trujillo,
- 41:08had met in prison and became friends, which is like
- 41:10a funny word for anybody Dorothea had in her life
- 41:14for whatever reason, though Dorothea had confided in this woman
- 41:17about some of the murders, and she actually it later
- 41:20came out during her trial that she confided in multiple
- 41:23other inmates, which is like the worst fucking idea, but
- 41:26also I'm glad she did. But she told Brenda, you know,
- 41:30I murder them, I drug them, I steal their checks.
- 41:33And then after she did this to Brenda, like you know,
- 41:36got her and t I think what she did was
- 41:38drugged her, and then she ended up feeling a drug
- 41:40test because Dorothea drugged her, and then she ended up
- 41:43back in jail, and Dorothea kept cashing her checks. So
- 41:48she filed a complaint saying, you know, this woman did
- 41:50this to me, but it ended up on the back
- 41:52burner until Dorothea was arrested. But Brenda did testify in
- 41:56her trial. But before we get into the trial, which
- 41:59I'm just going to kind of gloss over because I
- 42:01find trials boring and I hate to say, it's just
- 42:04not really my thing. I'm not that podcast. But before
- 42:07we get into that, let's talk about Dorothy's escape, which
- 42:09I sort of started I think some of this with
- 42:13so I think I left off where she ran away
- 42:15from La which is wild and hilariously bold. I mean,
- 42:19this woman is pure evil, but I do respect that
- 42:22level of boldness that she has to just like go
- 42:25for it over and over and it did keep working out,
- 42:28so I understand why that made her feel like she
- 42:29could just keep running away and doing whatever and making
- 42:32it work. So anyway, Dorothea ends up for she's in Hollywood.
- 42:36She spends the night there and then she takes a
- 42:38Greyhound bus down to an area known as Westlake or
- 42:42alternatively MacArthur Park, which is near downtown LA but sort
- 42:47of situated between that and Echo Park for anyone who
- 42:50sort of knows the area. There's this really big, nice,
- 42:54beautiful lake nearby, but it's pretty overrun unfortunately with like
- 42:59drug adda and homeless people, and it's just it hasn't
- 43:02been taken care of. It's been neglected by the city
- 43:05for years. So this has been a really rough area
- 43:08for a very long time, including when Dorothea was staying here.
- 43:12So the motels are super cheap, nobody cares what your
- 43:15name is, so this worked out really well for her.
- 43:18She set herself up in a motel and got some
- 43:21dinner without being recognized. Her name and photo were all
- 43:25over the news and everybody was looking for her. But
- 43:28she had put herself into a predominantly Latino area, so
- 43:31she felt safe that people would basically just mind their
- 43:33own business, and for the most part, they did. After
- 43:36a couple of days, she decided to venture out, not
- 43:39because she felt safe necessarily, but because she needed to
- 43:42secure more money. Like she had a very finite amount.
- 43:45It was whatever she could shove into her purse that
- 43:47she had stolen from her victims. It wasn't like she
- 43:50herself was getting any money or could like go cash
- 43:52a check under her name. So she decides to go
- 43:55out to a bar, the Monte Carlo, which liked the motel,
- 43:58which is called the Royal Viking is still there today,
- 44:02and the Monte Carlo has some really wild reviews on Yelp. Honestly,
- 44:06it's mostly hipster's being angry that it's a real dive
- 44:09bar and not like a curated fun one with updated amenities.
- 44:13But to me, it looks like just a good, rough
- 44:16dive bar. Like all the ones in downtown are gone.
- 44:19They've been gentrified. It's weird, but I feel like MacArthur
- 44:21Park and Westlake is one of the only areas that
- 44:24has like truly stayed out of being gentrified. Somehow, it's
- 44:28fought back. It's just not being turned into like a
- 44:31fucking Disneyland for like rich La people, and I kind
- 44:34of love that, but it's super rough. So anyway, Dorothea
- 44:39goes out on November sixteenth, nineteen eighty eight, and she
- 44:42is on the prowl. She meets a man at this
- 44:44bar named Charles Wilgas and tells him her name is
- 44:48Donna Johanson. They get to talking and she finds out
- 44:52he's on Social Security and even tells him, oh, I
- 44:55can help you get more benefits, like we can work
- 44:57the system, like I'm really you know, I know it
- 45:00do and clearly she does. So after a while, she
- 45:03offers them to go out again, and he accepts. She's like, well,
- 45:08you know, let's get together on Thanksgiving. You shouldn't be alone.
- 45:10I'll come to your house and cook for you. And
- 45:13he's like, yeah, that sounds great, and so she's laying
- 45:15it on and she even goes as far as to
- 45:18offer moving in together. She's like, why don't we share
- 45:21an apartment? Which is fucking crazy. They've been talking for
- 45:23like two hours and Charles was not immediately into this,
- 45:29but he was open to seeing where things went. So
- 45:32they decide, okay, let's meet up this coming Thursday. If
- 45:34things go well, we'll keep hanging out, we'll do Thanksgiving,
- 45:36we'll see where it goes. She got him to buy
- 45:39her dinner to take with her back to her motel,
- 45:42and she goes back there to eat and a few
- 45:45hours later she gets a call from Charles. Apparently he's
- 45:48just checking in with her, and you know, he's like, oh,
- 45:51are you staying in for the night. She confirms it. Yes,
- 45:53I'm at room thirty one at the Royal Viking Motel.
- 45:56I'm not going anywhere tonight, and I'm looking forward to
- 45:59seeing you on Thursdayay. So she's feeling really good. She's
- 46:02feeling like she's setting this up, She's got her next victim.
- 46:06Things are rolling. However, shortly after that phone call, there
- 46:13is a knock on Dorothea's door. She gets up and answers,
- 46:18and outside, looking straight into her room are the police
- 46:23who arrested her without incident. As it turns out, after
- 46:28leaving the bar, Charles, who had puzzled over where he
- 46:30had seen Donna quote unquote before realized he had seen
- 46:35her on the news, or dorothy a plenty rather, and
- 46:38that she was wanted for murder and Sacramento after calling
- 46:41to confirm she'd be there, he called the police and
- 46:43led them right to her. Now, again, like I said,
- 46:46I'm not going to get into the details of the trial,
- 46:49but I will say that it was a bit of
- 46:50a circus with I think one hundred and fifty something witnesses,
- 46:55victim's families were involved, thirty one hundred pieces of evidence
- 46:59were introduced. I mean, it was crazy. Now, at first,
- 47:04Dorothea was charged only with the murder of Bert Montoya,
- 47:07because that's kind of what kicked this whole thing off,
- 47:10but the list ended up growing to nine people by
- 47:12the time she went to trial. Now, the trial started
- 47:15in February nineteen ninety three, so almost five years later,
- 47:20or just over four, I guess. So it took a
- 47:23very long time for like the discovery phase and setting
- 47:26up the trial. And even though it started in February
- 47:29of nineteen ninety three, it took all the way until
- 47:31August twenty sixth of that same year to conclude, which
- 47:34is a very long trial. If anybody doesn't know, that's
- 47:37a long ass trial, and at the conclusion, Dorothea was
- 47:40found guilty of only three murders, the murder of Benjamin Fink,
- 47:45the murder of Leona Carpenter, and the murder of Dorothy Miller.
- 47:50The jury actually deadlocked on the other six, which I
- 47:53find crazy, but again I don't know all of the details. Now.
- 47:59Although the death found he was an option, I think
- 48:01due to her age and her cute little granny you know,
- 48:03the way she presents herself, the jury couldn't come to
- 48:06an agreement to put her to death, so instead she
- 48:09was given life without parole. She was then moved to
- 48:13the Women's Center in Chowchilla, California, where she remained until
- 48:17her death at age eighty two. She died of natural causes.
- 48:23And that really is that. Finally, this completes the tale
- 48:28of the murderous old Lady Dorothea Plente and her House
- 48:34of Horrors on f Street in Sacramento. Now I've gone
- 48:38on Instagram and posted a picture of the house which
- 48:41helps give you an idea of like the upstairs downstairs,
- 48:44as well as some pictures of her victims and photos
- 48:47of Dorothea as well, both being free. Although I think
- 48:50she's in court in the first picture and her mugshot,
- 48:53which is particularly fun to look at. This lady was crazy.
- 48:59She is such an important part of true crime history
- 49:02and California history. She's pure evil and I'm glad I
- 49:06covered the case, but I'm also glad to move on
- 49:08to something maybe a little less bulky for next week.
- 49:12So thanks everybody for listening in. I'm sorry if I'm sniffley,
- 49:16or if I sound stuffy, or if I mention anything twice.
- 49:20The flu has hit our house hard. I thought I
- 49:23had escaped its clutches, but I have not. So it's
- 49:25been a lot of time spent in bed, but some
- 49:28of that was recording this, So hopefully you know you guys,
- 49:31enjoy and I'll be back next week with a whole
- 49:35new case. And thanks again everybody for listening, and until
- 49:39next week, stay safe.