Latest / The Book Deal / The Takeover: Zaheda Ghani on writing goals, how to keep momentum and setting intentions for writing practice

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The Takeover: Zaheda Ghani on writing goals, how to keep momentum and setting intentions for writing practice · The Book Deal

• 0:09
  Natasha Rai: This is the Book Deal Podcast, monthly takeover by your host, Natasha Rai.
• 0:14
  Natasha Rai: I'll be bringing you even more debut and season authors as they talk about their path to publication.
• 0:26
  Madeleine Cleary: The Book Deal Podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters, which it's recorded on and pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
• 0:34
  Natasha Rai: Zaheda Ghani and her family arrived in Australia from Afghanistan as refugees in the 1980s.
• 0:43
  Natasha Rai: At nine years old, Zaheda, also known as Zoe hand wrote her first novel using an HB pencil in a scented diary with a lock and key.
• 0:52
  Natasha Rai: The heart of what she wrote back then developed over many years to become Pomegranate and Fig, which was shortlisted for the Richell prize for emerging writers.
• 1:02
  Natasha Rai: Zaheda was also a recipient of the Western Sydney Emerging Writers Fellowship.
• 1:08
  Natasha Rai: Zaheda served on the board of Australia for U-N-H-C-R, the private sector partner of the UN Refugee Agency from 2017 to 2021.
• 1:19
  Natasha Rai: She's now an ambassador for Australia for U-N-H-C-R and has an active interest in UNH C'S humanitarian work.
• 1:28
  Natasha Rai: Zaheda lives in Sydney with her husband.
• 1:31
  Natasha Rai: Just a note from me about this episode.
• 1:33
  Natasha Rai: It took, Zaheda and me a while to get our act together in terms of getting a time to record it, and I'm so glad we did because the episode is jam packed with really, really excellent practical tips for writers either struggling to find time to write or to understand or figure out how to proceed with their work and how to set intention.
• 1:59
  Natasha Rai: I think the intention part for me really stood out.
• 2:03
  Natasha Rai: While you're listening this episode, make sure you bring your notebook and pen to take on all of Zaheda's fabulous tips.
• 2:09
  Natasha Rai: Enjoy.
• 2:14
  Natasha Rai: Hi Zaheda Ghani, welcome to the Book Deal podcast.
• 2:18
  Zaheda Ghani: Thank you, Natasha.
• 2:19
  Zaheda Ghani: Thank you for having me.
• 2:20
  Natasha Rai: It's a pleasure and I'm really, really pleased that you, we were able to make this work.
• 2:25
  Natasha Rai: Thank you.
• 2:26
  Natasha Rai: Um, so you're here today to talk a little bit about your publication journey and your wonderful novel, pomegranate and Fig.
• 2:34
  Natasha Rai: So I would like to start by inviting you to give me an elevator pitch.
• 2:38
  Zaheda Ghani: Okay.
• 2:39
  Zaheda Ghani: It's not gonna be very polished, but, um, the novel called Pomegranate and Fig, and I have a copy right here with me.
• 2:45
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, it was published in, um, 2022, so it's been a while.
• 2:49
  Zaheda Ghani: It's actually a story about three people.
• 2:52
  Zaheda Ghani: There's, um, Hannah, um, and her brother, um, Hamid, and basically, uh, and a third person called Rahim, who will later become her husband.
• 3:02
  Zaheda Ghani: And essentially it's based in the 1970s Afghanistan, and it follows their lives and their journey through the Soviet invasion.
• 3:11
  Zaheda Ghani: And then how they flee and what happens.
• 3:14
  Zaheda Ghani: At the part of it, what I was actually interested in was those scars from the refugee experience that are not communicated through the numbers and the statistics and the imagery in the news.
• 3:26
  Zaheda Ghani: It's actually those scars are not visible.
• 3:28
  Zaheda Ghani: They actually change who people are, and so it's really about the identities of these people and how it involves as a result of the experiences that they had.
• 3:38
  Natasha Rai: Thank you.
• 3:40
  Natasha Rai: Um, I have read it so I know how beautiful it is, the story, the writing, the themes.
• 3:46
  Natasha Rai: Um, and I'm curious about, you take such heavy themes, you take such care with them.
• 3:55
  Natasha Rai: How did you approach writing a story like this or stories?
• 3:59
  Natasha Rai: 'cause it's multiple viewpoints.
• 4:02
  Zaheda Ghani: Sure.
• 4:02
  Zaheda Ghani: Look, at the time I wasn't thinking about.
• 4:05
  Zaheda Ghani: The themes or the heaviness in the way maybe you read, read them.
• 4:10
  Zaheda Ghani: I think for me what was important was, um, I needed it to be as historically valid as possible.
• 4:18
  Zaheda Ghani: So it was really, that was an important thing.
• 4:20
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, and I wanted to portray the elements of the culture as honestly as I could.
• 4:25
  Zaheda Ghani: And now every family has lives within a larger and larger culture, but you also have your own nucleus of culture.
• 4:31
  Zaheda Ghani: I wanted to capture those, the important things in terms of the relationships between men and women, their wedding ceremony, the process of actually getting married, the and, and the bonds between family and what's appropriate and what's not.
• 4:44
  Zaheda Ghani: So they're the things that I was more focused on and, um, consciously so, because I wanted to base it in as much, you know, of I was world building as someone said once to me, like someone does in sci-fi.
• 4:58
  Zaheda Ghani: So I was hoping that the world that I'm building is as honest and authentic as I can make it, um, based on obviously my own perception of what that looks like.
• 5:06
  Zaheda Ghani: And, and for that, um, I watched a lot of, uh, videos on YouTube on from the, the.
• 5:14
  Zaheda Ghani: The periods that I was interested in, obviously read a lot, um, and also, uh, harassed my mom and other family members had been through to try to understand like in a, um, when there is that wedding ceremony, what's appropriate for who to say this is what I wrote.
• 5:33
  Zaheda Ghani: Is that sound right?
• 5:35
  Zaheda Ghani: And I also worked with an amazing editor, Jane, who helped me to then do some.
• 5:40
  Zaheda Ghani: Uh, like refinements on, well, in the seventies, if you had a yearbook made of leather, it would've been too expensive for a school, so therefore this material should change.
• 5:51
  Zaheda Ghani: So she did some of that.
• 5:52
  Zaheda Ghani: So it's not necessarily kind of historical fiction, but it is trying to be on, uh, honor the, the experiences and the cultural components and elements of the time.
• 6:04
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 6:05
  Natasha Rai: So by focusing on the details and that accuracy, you get this.
• 6:09
  Natasha Rai: As you said, world building, you get this real intricate, very detailed view into these people's lives.
• 6:16
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah, that was kind of the game plan.
• 6:18
  Natasha Rai: It definitely worked.
• 6:20
  Natasha Rai: I mean, as a huge fan of your work and I love, I love your book, so it definitely worked well for me anyway.
• 6:27
  Natasha Rai: So part of your work is you are an advocate, um, for refugee peoples or, you know, and I'm wondering,'cause one of the things you and I talked about when your book came out.
• 6:39
  Natasha Rai: Was this, um, feeling or danger of becoming a spokesperson as a lot of writers of colors end up being for communities or ways of lives or families?
• 6:51
  Natasha Rai: Have you thought about, because you've had a bit of time now, how you've balanced that, where you can kind of talk about it or advocate through your work, but maybe wanting to take a bit of a back step away from that when talking about your fiction?
• 7:06
  Zaheda Ghani: Sure.
• 7:07
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah, so this was interesting for me because, um, I cannot speak for the peoples that are Afghan who have left through either, either my, my time or or other.
• 7:21
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, and I wanted the book to do kind of, to just stand as a novel and I want it just to be a novelist to begin with.
• 7:31
  Zaheda Ghani: And as a result of sharing my personal experiences and perspectives, if that helped somebody understand the refugee experience better, then that was really kind of like the icing.
• 7:42
  Zaheda Ghani: And I really wanted that to be my smallest small contribution, um, to, to, to the narratives, um, that, that you refer to.
• 7:50
  Zaheda Ghani: So I think, again, I, I feel like going back to just being as authentic as possible about my writing process, but also saying, this is my experience as.
• 8:01
  Zaheda Ghani: Afghan, um, refugee as my parents live, you know, left and how it's different and just being kind of like myself, I guess, in those conversations rather than trying to speak on behalf of is and, and then understanding.
• 8:14
  Zaheda Ghani: And actually, um, someone did say to me, you know, that they felt like it was a window into how families work in that part of the world and how unfamiliar they were.
• 8:27
  Zaheda Ghani: So it's kind of like, well, maybe now when they see on the news that there's a crisis, they will have a connection to the people that are behind the statistics, and maybe that's what will be an outcome.
• 8:38
  Zaheda Ghani: But it definitely wasn't an awareness or a goal for me to set out to do that.
• 8:41
  Zaheda Ghani: I just.
• 8:42
  Zaheda Ghani: Set out to write something because I was interested in that story and again, because it has a personal connection to me and the refugee story is my story.
• 8:50
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, yeah, so the way I kind of tried to navigate that is by just kind of being authentic about where I've come from and then if, if people take something from that, that's awesome.
• 8:59
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, and it's almost a paradox, isn't it?
• 9:03
  Natasha Rai: That in writing a story that's familiar to yours.
• 9:08
  Natasha Rai: Approaching it with that level of detail that you, you did, you kind of do both, you kind of distance yourself from the actual story'cause it's not your story per se, while also showing a family who is under a lot of stress and going through this quite horrific process ordeal.
• 9:26
  Zaheda Ghani: Absolutely.
• 9:26
  Zaheda Ghani: And you know, we have a shared humanity, right?
• 9:29
  Zaheda Ghani: So, and that's kind of where I'm really interested because the it, regardless of what these.
• 9:37
  Zaheda Ghani: What this family was going through.
• 9:38
  Zaheda Ghani: They're still a family.
• 9:39
  Zaheda Ghani: And every, uh, there's family, like families are a shared humanity.
• 9:44
  Zaheda Ghani: Fear is a shared, shared humanity.
• 9:45
  Zaheda Ghani: Sense of identity is a shared humanity.
• 9:48
  Zaheda Ghani: So that's kind of where I was interested in, in that, just naturally and as you said, because it, it's something that's close to me.
• 9:55
  Zaheda Ghani: It's probably created, you know, that thought maybe in your mind as you read as well, that connection.
• 10:01
  Natasha Rai: Hmm.
• 10:02
  Natasha Rai: Did you set out to write this story?
• 10:04
  Natasha Rai: Was that kind of your first idea for a novel?
• 10:08
  Zaheda Ghani: Well, I have been writing this story literally since I was a kid because, and it, and it was because I initially started with, um, wanting to write an autobiography.
• 10:22
  Zaheda Ghani: This was in there, seven or six.
• 10:25
  Zaheda Ghani: And, and, um, and even younger.
• 10:28
  Zaheda Ghani: And just because I
• 10:30
  Natasha Rai: what a short autobiography back then,
• 10:32
  Zaheda Ghani: tell me about it.
• 10:33
  Zaheda Ghani: Right.
• 10:34
  Zaheda Ghani: And, and I wrote like, and then I realized that was an interesting, so I wrote it like an iteration of this in, in, in primary school or whatever.
• 10:42
  Zaheda Ghani: And it was just an, an idea.
• 10:46
  Zaheda Ghani: And then I've written a version of it, which felt really cardboard and I hated it.
• 10:53
  Zaheda Ghani: And I thought.
• 10:55
  Zaheda Ghani: This is what happens.
• 10:56
  Zaheda Ghani: You, you just feel that way.
• 10:57
  Zaheda Ghani: Let's just go get self-published, you know, and get it out there and see what people think.
• 11:01
  Zaheda Ghani: And I couldn't even make myself self-publish it.
• 11:04
  Zaheda Ghani: And then I did the year of the, um, novel, the course with Emily Maguire.
• 11:09
  Zaheda Ghani: And through that, um, by that point I had reached a.
• 11:12
  Zaheda Ghani: Space where I said, you know, I'm either going to write this or I'm gonna shut up about it.
• 11:18
  Zaheda Ghani: And through the course I learned what I, what, what I, what was it about the first versions that felt so cardboard.
• 11:25
  Zaheda Ghani: And it was kind of really freeing to understand myself and my writing practice, and then really just write what I really wanted to write, but having better techniques and better feedback.
• 11:37
  Zaheda Ghani: And yeah.
• 11:38
  Zaheda Ghani: And that was kind of the start of the actual.
• 11:41
  Zaheda Ghani: Writing of this version.
• 11:43
  Natasha Rai: Going into that course, what did you have?
• 11:46
  Natasha Rai: Like, did you have like an outline, like some scenes, do you remember?
• 11:50
  Zaheda Ghani: I had a whole novel.
• 11:51
  Natasha Rai: You had a whole novel.
• 11:52
  Natasha Rai: Oh my God.
• 11:52
  Natasha Rai: Okay.
• 11:52
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 11:53
  Natasha Rai: But it felt like cardboard, like you said.
• 11:55
  Zaheda Ghani: I hated it.
• 11:55
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 11:56
  Zaheda Ghani: And I was like, this does not feel right.
• 11:58
  Zaheda Ghani: I, it's, I haven't found, and I think now I, I feel that it was because the voice wasn't there.
• 12:05
  Zaheda Ghani: It was just something wasn't sitting about it.
• 12:08
  Zaheda Ghani: And, um, the characters, there were too many and I was just needing to work through and get closer to who I was really interested in, in the characters themselves.
• 12:18
  Zaheda Ghani: And then once I got that and the voice and then the scenes, I started to rewrite everything, um, through that process.
• 12:24
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 12:25
  Natasha Rai: And I wanna come back to, uh, you mentioned earlier about a writing process, and I do wanna ask you about that.
• 12:32
  Natasha Rai: But as we've started talking about your kind of bringing together what you learned through that course and starting to figure out what you needed to do to help your novel come to life.
• 12:44
  Natasha Rai: Tell me a bit about your publication journey after that.
• 12:46
  Natasha Rai: So you,'cause I know that you, you are still in a writing group.
• 12:51
  Zaheda Ghani: Yes.
• 12:52
  Zaheda Ghani: So, uh, going in I was very lonely, right.
• 12:55
  Zaheda Ghani: And I, I had not engaged with writers at all, and I had no idea what the publishing journey would be like.
• 13:01
  Zaheda Ghani: And what I wanted was, I wanted to just be a student.
• 13:05
  Zaheda Ghani: In this process that I've obsessed about all my life and just go and learn and hopefully understand if I could have some people that would be in the writing group with me so that I could keep going and learning with them.
• 13:18
  Zaheda Ghani: And so, yes, out of that course I did, you know, create, uh, uh, become part of a writing group that we still together today, but also within that course.
• 13:27
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, Emily was amazing in that she helped me get to know myself as a writer and kind of dispelled the myth that.
• 13:34
  Zaheda Ghani: You have to have these criteria to even call yourself a writer, which was really shy about even admitting to anyone.
• 13:40
  Zaheda Ghani: So, so that confidence and the coaching really helped me.
• 13:44
  Zaheda Ghani: And then she kind of suggested to the class, you know, um, you all should start to get your work out there and there are some ideas, and start going into some competitions and all of that.
• 13:54
  Zaheda Ghani: And I really took that to heart.
• 13:56
  Zaheda Ghani: So put myself out there and a few competitions.
• 13:59
  Zaheda Ghani: Publishing journey began with a competition because I entered the Richell Richell Prize.
• 14:05
  Zaheda Ghani: I think I pronounced it, been a lot times since I said that word.
• 14:08
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, and um, and through that prize, uh, I was a shortlist.
• 14:14
  Zaheda Ghani: And as part of the shortlist, you know Hachette will read your work and they will decide.
• 14:18
  Natasha Rai: That's right.
• 14:18
  Natasha Rai: Amazing.
• 14:19
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 14:20
  Zaheda Ghani: And that is, that is how I ended up with Hachette publishing the novel and through that experience of competitions, um, it's really amazing.
• 14:28
  Zaheda Ghani: I have to tell you, I used to enter competitions when I was a kid and.
• 14:36
  Zaheda Ghani: Get like little, um, acknowledgements of my work and it used to feel, and I felt like that period again.
• 14:42
  Zaheda Ghani: 'cause I,
• 14:43
  Natasha Rai: For sure
• 14:44
  Zaheda Ghani: As many things as I can.
• 14:45
  Zaheda Ghani: Mm.
• 14:45
  Zaheda Ghani: And I didn't win everything, obviously, but I got into a scholarship with, um, Westwords.
• 14:52
  Zaheda Ghani: They read my work and they, and this was definitely part of the publishing path because it kind of happened at the time before I had submitted my work to Hachette where they teamed me up with an editor.
• 15:05
  Zaheda Ghani: Alison Fraser and all of that.
• 15:06
  Natasha Rai: Yes.
• 15:07
  Natasha Rai: So can I just slow you down a little bit because um,
• 15:09
  Zaheda Ghani: Please, yeah.
• 15:10
  Natasha Rai: People get very interested in how competitions work.
• 15:13
  Natasha Rai: So you enter the Richell prize and you were shortlisted.
• 15:17
  Zaheda Ghani: Yes.
• 15:18
  Natasha Rai: And then Hachette said what?
• 15:20
  Natasha Rai: Like you had some time to submit the whole thing.
• 15:22
  Natasha Rai: 'cause I know you don't submit the whole manuscript to the Richell prize.
• 15:25
  Zaheda Ghani: That's right.
• 15:26
  Natasha Rai: Three chapters and a breakdown.
• 15:28
  Natasha Rai: Right.
• 15:29
  Zaheda Ghani: You got it.
• 15:29
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, I cannot remember exactly what the milestone was in terms of what I had to submit, whether it was the whole thing or how long it took, but mm-hmm.
• 15:39
  Zaheda Ghani: There was kind of within that, um, you know, contract in, I think there's a clause or Oh no, it's in the, when you enter the competition, you know, the terms and conditions and all of that.
• 15:49
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 15:49
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 15:49
  Zaheda Ghani: Which would stick to my ears.
• 15:51
  Zaheda Ghani: Uh, and someone's gonna read my work.
• 15:54
  Zaheda Ghani: Wow.
• 15:55
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 15:55
  Zaheda Ghani: So then I submitted there, um, and then they had a read and obviously had various meetings and things and then they called and said that they would accept it.
• 16:04
  Natasha Rai: So after you was shortlisted, did you then, win the Westwords editorial, um, feedback after that, do you remember?
• 16:13
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, I know that it happened before I submitted the full manuscript.
• 16:18
  Natasha Rai: Okay.
• 16:18
  Zaheda Ghani: But not remember how the sequence worked.
• 16:20
  Zaheda Ghani: 'cause basically I did go a bit nuts.
• 16:25
  Zaheda Ghani: Different, different places.
• 16:26
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 16:27
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 16:27
  Zaheda Ghani: I can't remember what the sequence was.
• 16:29
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 16:30
  Natasha Rai: Yes.
• 16:30
  Natasha Rai: But I do know that you met up with, or you were paired with Alison Fraser because she helped me with my novel and she's an absolute gem.
• 16:39
  Zaheda Ghani: Absolutely.
• 16:40
  Zaheda Ghani: And that was yeah, a, a process that, um, she brought kind of the structural editing to it.
• 16:46
  Zaheda Ghani: Mm-hmm.
• 16:46
  Zaheda Ghani: And me, uh, understand and improve the structure.
• 16:49
  Zaheda Ghani: And, um, I wasn't thinking as technically as she does.
• 16:53
  Zaheda Ghani: Obviously that's, she's such a, yeah.
• 16:55
  Zaheda Ghani: That, so that really helped.
• 16:57
  Natasha Rai: Do you remember what your manuscript or where it was at before she worked on it with you and what?
• 17:05
  Natasha Rai: I could, I don't mean the actual details, but what fundamentally changed for you after working with her?
• 17:10
  Zaheda Ghani: Oh, sure.
• 17:11
  Zaheda Ghani: So, um, I think that there was, one of the things was, uh, I wasn't, I had a lot of char, I had more than three characters and those minor characters, I thought they had to be chapters or voices.
• 17:29
  Zaheda Ghani: The characters stayed, but they didn't have to become a voice on the, on their own.
• 17:33
  Zaheda Ghani: They became a voice part of the background.
• 17:36
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 17:36
  Zaheda Ghani: So for example, there's a scene where they come for the, um, there to ask for Hannah's hand.
• 17:41
  Zaheda Ghani: That didn't have to be a point of view by a whole character.
• 17:45
  Natasha Rai: I see.
• 17:46
  Natasha Rai: Yes.
• 17:46
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 17:47
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 17:47
  Zaheda Ghani: The other thing I got out of, um, working with her, I got many things, but the other major thing was, um.
• 17:53
  Zaheda Ghani: She printed out the whole thing and we sat around the table and structured in three different ways, timeline everything in by one cha, like there's three characters.
• 18:04
  Zaheda Ghani: A timeline is consistent.
• 18:06
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 18:06
  Zaheda Ghani: It was like what every, everybody told the full story like this.
• 18:10
  Zaheda Ghani: And so I experimented quite a lot with that structure of what would work with her as well.
• 18:15
  Natasha Rai: That, uh, must have been quite a long process.
• 18:18
  Natasha Rai: Does, do you remember if.
• 18:20
  Natasha Rai: Sometimes I know, I, I know how I felt when I get feedback from an editor and initially I feel a bit lost or I feel a bit panicked, like, I think I can't do this.
• 18:30
  Natasha Rai: Did you remember feeling like that or were you feeling really motivated and inspired by how she was helping you structure that?
• 18:36
  Zaheda Ghani: Okay.
• 18:37
  Zaheda Ghani: I, this is actually, I still remember wondering if.
• 18:43
  Zaheda Ghani: I'm skilled enough to do all these things.
• 18:46
  Zaheda Ghani: Yes.
• 18:47
  Zaheda Ghani: As described, there's that process of like the fear and the other part of it is do I, I don't know immediately if I agree or not.
• 18:56
  Natasha Rai: Ah, yes,
• 18:58
  Zaheda Ghani: yes.
• 18:59
  Zaheda Ghani: I will go back into my like click like writing notes.
• 19:04
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 19:04
  Zaheda Ghani: And go, okay, you are safe.
• 19:05
  Zaheda Ghani: Let's try this, and then I'll try it out, and then I will live with it for a week.
• 19:11
  Zaheda Ghani: And see how I feel, because I don't know it straight away what I think about it.
• 19:16
  Zaheda Ghani: So I would apply it, play around with it, and then through that playing around, I would think, oh, oh, I can do this.
• 19:23
  Zaheda Ghani: And that is when I would start to feel really motivated and confident.
• 19:27
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 19:27
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, but it's not, not when it's like the initial big list of all the things when, when you first see all the scribbling work, you're like, I'm never gonna get this done.
• 19:39
  Zaheda Ghani: How am I gonna get?
• 19:40
  Zaheda Ghani: So it's like, okay, just chunk it down.
• 19:42
  Zaheda Ghani: Chapter at the time page at the time.
• 19:45
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 19:46
  Zaheda Ghani: Play around with it, see how I go.
• 19:48
  Zaheda Ghani: And then starting to feel, I think that the thing that is consistent was that if someone took the time to read it, I, the motivation doesn't wane, if that makes sense.
• 19:59
  Zaheda Ghani: 'cause I'm like this.
• 20:00
  Zaheda Ghani: Very hungry and finished person and it's like someone reading it is such an honor.
• 20:06
  Zaheda Ghani: So the motivation doesn't win.
• 20:08
  Zaheda Ghani: It's the confidence that was different based on
• 20:11
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 20:12
  Zaheda Ghani: Editing.
• 20:13
  Zaheda Ghani: Okay.
• 20:13
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 20:14
  Natasha Rai: That's such an important distinction because it's true.
• 20:16
  Natasha Rai: It's the confidence, isn't it?
• 20:18
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 20:18
  Natasha Rai: And when you start getting in the flow, your confidence builds'cause you think I can do this.
• 20:22
  Zaheda Ghani: You got it.
• 20:22
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 20:23
  Zaheda Ghani: 'Cause you, you tinker and you're like, oh, I could, I was able to tinker in the direction of what I sensed.
• 20:28
  Zaheda Ghani: She was asking for, or what would make sense now, and you'd be like, oh, that made it better.
• 20:33
  Zaheda Ghani: Or, oh God, that feels cardboard.
• 20:35
  Zaheda Ghani: That's not gonna work.
• 20:36
  Zaheda Ghani: So, yeah.
• 20:37
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 20:42
  Shara Curlett: Hi, I'm Shara Curlett member of the 2025 debut crew, an author of Welcome to Miracle, a middle grade fantasy novel released by Scholastic Australia on the 1st of April, 2025.
• 20:54
  Shara Curlett: The idea for Welcome to Miracle came to me when I asked myself a simple question.
• 20:59
  Shara Curlett: What if Charlie and the chocolate factory was set on a magical island?
• 21:03
  Shara Curlett: What would've happened?
• 21:04
  Shara Curlett: What could have happened?
• 21:06
  Shara Curlett: And with that one simple spark of an idea, Miracle was born.
• 21:10
  Shara Curlett: Welcome to Miracle is about an 11-year-old girl named Juniper Mayfair, who was cursed by chaos.
• 21:16
  Shara Curlett: Also, she has been told, and it is well known, that children with chaos may never visit Miracle.
• 21:21
  Shara Curlett: The private island that gifts its visitors magic for 24 hours.
• 21:26
  Shara Curlett: What others don't realize, however, is that Juniper's chaos comes in the form of a pesky ghost who claims he is not a ghost named Finnegan Frost.
• 21:35
  Shara Curlett: So when Juniper receives an elusive ticket to Miracle, she believes all her wishes have come true.
• 21:41
  Shara Curlett: After all, that's what the island promises on the island, though she discovers that nothing is, as it seems, Miracle is not bringing wishes to life, but nightmares.
• 21:52
  Shara Curlett: Juniper and her new friends must uncover the secrets of Miracle to rid the world of chaos for good, but first, they must survive the island.
• 22:01
  Shara Curlett: This fast-paced magical adventure will keep you guessing to the very end, and I really hope that your children and you love reading it.
• 22:09
  Shara Curlett: I'd like to say thank you to Madeleine, Tina, and Natasha for giving me the opportunity to share my debut novel with you.
• 22:15
  Shara Curlett: Welcome to Miracle is available from all good bookstores and also through the Scholastic Book Club and Scholastic book fairs.
• 22:26
  Natasha Rai: So after that process with Alison, you submitted that version to Hachette?
• 22:32
  Zaheda Ghani: Yes.
• 22:32
  Natasha Rai: And I remember'cause uh, we had, were talking around that time, it felt like it took a long time after that submission.
• 22:40
  Zaheda Ghani: Yes.
• 22:41
  Zaheda Ghani: So, um, there are a lot of processes that I did not appreciate in Hachette that I, in publishing, actually not in, within publishing they have, um, uh, these processes where they're, I guess, discussing the work, understanding what it means for them, how does it fit in their catalog, and they're the things that they were doing internally, which I was waiting for.
• 23:01
  Zaheda Ghani: But because in, you know, and you are like, been in my shoes, you are kind of really excited.
• 23:09
  Zaheda Ghani: But nervous, I was just pretty much holding my writing breath.
• 23:14
  Zaheda Ghani: Yes.
• 23:15
  Zaheda Ghani: So, yeah.
• 23:16
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, it will be, that's a hard part to wait.
• 23:19
  Natasha Rai: It is a very hard part.
• 23:21
  Natasha Rai: And I remember at the time as well that you wanted to wait and see and you didn't want to, um, submit to any other publisher.
• 23:28
  Zaheda Ghani: Yes.
• 23:29
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 23:30
  Natasha Rai: Yes.
• 23:30
  Natasha Rai: Uh, I mean, I don't really wanna ask about whether, obviously it's, it was the right decision, but how did you.
• 23:38
  Natasha Rai: Hold on to the patience, because I know that with the competitions, you were like, yes, I'm gonna enter as many as possible.
• 23:45
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 23:45
  Natasha Rai: What helped you kind of hold steady with wh while you were waiting for Hachette?
• 23:50
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, I think there's a, I can't remember now, but I think even with entering competitions, there's a time, there's a timing.
• 23:57
  Zaheda Ghani: Thing where some competitions you can't enter if you already submitted somewhere else.
• 24:01
  Natasha Rai: That's, that's true.
• 24:02
  Natasha Rai: That's true.
• 24:02
  Natasha Rai: Yes.
• 24:02
  Natasha Rai: A lot of them have that rule.
• 24:03
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 24:04
  Zaheda Ghani: Conscious of timing around that as well.
• 24:06
  Zaheda Ghani: And, um, you know, uh, the, the year of the novel and, and all of the learning we did there, part of that was about like being conscious of those things.
• 24:14
  Zaheda Ghani: So I had to do that.
• 24:15
  Zaheda Ghani: I was conscious, I was, I guess, trained in the patience piece already through learning that even competitions, you can't go a, uh, AWOL and, and do it.
• 24:24
  Zaheda Ghani: So you have to be conscious of those things.
• 24:26
  Zaheda Ghani: I think, um, I felt, felt a bit like, and this is gonna sound cheesy, but it was a bit like if it's meant to happen in this situation, it will.
• 24:38
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 24:39
  Zaheda Ghani: And I had waited like so long, right?
• 24:42
  Zaheda Ghani: Written this thing for so long, it just didn't feel like I needed to go and.
• 24:46
  Zaheda Ghani: Shop it around immediately.
• 24:48
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 24:49
  Zaheda Ghani: If that makes sense.
• 24:49
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, it does.
• 24:50
  Natasha Rai: It does.
• 24:51
  Natasha Rai: Do you remember the moment or the day when they said, yes?
• 24:57
  Zaheda Ghani: Of course I do.
• 24:57
  Zaheda Ghani: I remember being on the phone in my, um, dining area and jumping up and down going, yes, yes, yes.
• 25:07
  Natasha Rai: It's the best moment, isn't it?
• 25:09
  Zaheda Ghani: Such an amazing moment.
• 25:10
  Zaheda Ghani: I wish it for everyone that wants to write and wants to publish, um, through a publisher.
• 25:16
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 25:16
  Zaheda Ghani: It's, it's the best feeling.
• 25:18
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 25:19
  Natasha Rai: And from memory, how long did it take between that Yes.
• 25:21
  Natasha Rai: To publication date?
• 25:24
  Zaheda Ghani: Oh gosh, I have no idea.
• 25:28
  Zaheda Ghani: I don't remember.
• 25:29
  Zaheda Ghani: I know it was months and months.
• 25:31
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 25:31
  Zaheda Ghani: Oh, pause, wait.
• 25:32
  Zaheda Ghani: Covid happened as well.
• 25:33
  Zaheda Ghani: So my, my dates were all impacted by Covid too.
• 25:38
  Natasha Rai: Oh, okay.
• 25:39
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 25:40
  Natasha Rai: And there was more work that you did, uh, once it was accepted for publication.
• 25:45
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 25:45
  Zaheda Ghani: So there was an edit, um, process with the publishing team as well.
• 25:49
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 25:50
  Natasha Rai: And so the time of release, because I came to your launch and in the Sydney launch, how was all that time?
• 25:57
  Natasha Rai: It must have been so heady and so exciting and joyous.
• 26:01
  Zaheda Ghani: It, it was heady.
• 26:02
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, and we were talking earlier about what it feels like to just hold a copy in your hand.
• 26:09
  Zaheda Ghani: Okay.
• 26:10
  Zaheda Ghani: I celebrate every little step, every lunch.
• 26:14
  Zaheda Ghani: It's like the phone call celebration this, well before that submit, celebration, phone call, celebration.
• 26:20
  Zaheda Ghani: And then I have, you know, the book arriving in, you know, it's bid way and then the, the, the, the, the, my copies and then the, yeah, it was just, yeah.
• 26:30
  Zaheda Ghani: I, I, I, in my whole life, I had never worked in, walked into a bookshop, seen a shelf in books, and not felt and dreamt that mine would be on it.
• 26:40
  Zaheda Ghani: And here was this dream happening.
• 26:43
  Zaheda Ghani: And I was, you know, ready to kick the bucket.
• 26:46
  Zaheda Ghani: 'cause the bucket was peaceful.
• 26:48
  Zaheda Ghani: You know what I mean?
• 26:49
  Natasha Rai: Yes, I do.
• 26:50
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 26:51
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, I have to be honest though, one of the things that I realized when I started to see it around was I did start to feel like wanting to get published was not the same as people actually reading it.
• 27:05
  Natasha Rai: Ah, yes.
• 27:07
  Zaheda Ghani: Oh yeah.
• 27:08
  Zaheda Ghani: Okay.
• 27:08
  Zaheda Ghani: Now that means people will read it.
• 27:10
  Zaheda Ghani: Oh my God.
• 27:11
  Zaheda Ghani: I had not connected that.
• 27:12
  Zaheda Ghani: You know, that bookshelf dream in a bookshop is the same as people actually gonna now read, read this thing.
• 27:19
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 27:20
  Natasha Rai: There's a fear associated with that and a worry.
• 27:23
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 27:24
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 27:25
  Natasha Rai: Do you remember what, how you managed that?
• 27:28
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, let's see.
• 27:30
  Zaheda Ghani: I think.
• 27:31
  Zaheda Ghani: The excitement and I'm just like, even now I can feel how excited I was and I still am.
• 27:36
  Zaheda Ghani: I mean, I, I got that hap to hap that happened to me or I made a book.
• 27:42
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, it's still, I think that was probably overshadowing any serious fear of doubt.
• 27:50
  Zaheda Ghani: Just more little anxiety.
• 27:52
  Natasha Rai: And I don't know if this, if you did this at the time, but to anyone else who's in the same boat, all of those competition, long listing, short listing prizes, all of that feedback is something to hold onto as tangible evidence that this is good, this is a high enough standard.
• 28:09
  Natasha Rai: Right?
• 28:10
  Zaheda Ghani: Absolutely.
• 28:11
  Zaheda Ghani: And, um, it not only builds that confidence I was talking about earlier, um, I did have other experiences where I just received feedback in the early phases of the old version of the manuscript.
• 28:23
  Zaheda Ghani: And, um, that feedback is a gift and.
• 28:27
  Zaheda Ghani: Uh, and like I said, my approach is not to have an opinion about it straight away, but I know that the things that I took on board, even in the old manuscript, were really helpful to make me better as a writer as well.
• 28:40
  Natasha Rai: Completely.
• 28:41
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 28:42
  Natasha Rai: And so now if you three years on, what does kind of your writing life look like?
• 28:48
  Zaheda Ghani: Sure.
• 28:49
  Zaheda Ghani: I have been very busy until about, um.
• 28:54
  Zaheda Ghani: I guess a few months ago where I decided, okay, the busyness is a constant, um, and therefore what are you gonna do now?
• 29:01
  Zaheda Ghani: Because novel number two is kind of like, I've got a few thousand words there.
• 29:05
  Zaheda Ghani: I know what I wanna do with it, but I wasn't getting in the chair, so to speak.
• 29:09
  Zaheda Ghani: And so now, uh, I, I've just gone back to restating my instating, my, um, daily writing, um, practice, which is very early in the morning.
• 29:21
  Zaheda Ghani: Um.
• 29:23
  Zaheda Ghani: Even if it's a 15 minute thing, consistently writing.
• 29:29
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 29:30
  Zaheda Ghani: And, uh, um, I recently had a new, uh, practice added to it where I'm actually, I put it in the calendar now, and then it, oh, because I'm driven by the calendars.
• 29:44
  Zaheda Ghani: Anyway, it just, it happened more consistently.
• 29:47
  Zaheda Ghani: So that was one thing.
• 29:48
  Zaheda Ghani: And the other thing was.
• 29:49
  Zaheda Ghani: Started to put in what this week's focus will be because what I was doing was I was doing only one kind of activity and then drowning or losing a lot of hours and feeling really bad about it.
• 30:02
  Zaheda Ghani: So now it'll be this week or this session will be about research and then I don't feel like, I haven't got a, like the full picture of I'm not, this is about writing a net new scene that I do not have.
• 30:17
  Zaheda Ghani: Those ones I will avoid if I let myself go because my favorite is I wrote something and I'm gonna polish the shit out of it.
• 30:25
  Natasha Rai: Ah, yes.
• 30:26
  Natasha Rai: Yep.
• 30:26
  Natasha Rai: Editing and polishing is my favorite too.
• 30:28
  Zaheda Ghani: Yes.
• 30:29
  Zaheda Ghani: Because they're so fun.
• 30:30
  Zaheda Ghani: Uh, for me at least.
• 30:31
  Zaheda Ghani: So now I'm distributing the days between themes of work and that's gotten me to move forward a lot faster than I was.
• 30:40
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 30:41
  Natasha Rai: Oh my God.
• 30:42
  Natasha Rai: I actually love that.
• 30:43
  Natasha Rai: I hadn't even considered setting an intentional focus.
• 30:46
  Natasha Rai: For the day or the week.
• 30:48
  Natasha Rai: Oh, I feel like my entire writing practice is gonna change because of that tip.
• 30:52
  Natasha Rai: Thank you.
• 30:53
  Zaheda Ghani: It had a massive impact.
• 30:54
  Zaheda Ghani: I cannot take credit.
• 30:55
  Zaheda Ghani: 'cause Emily gave that to me.
• 30:57
  Natasha Rai: That's okay.
• 30:58
  Natasha Rai: I'm glad.
• 30:58
  Natasha Rai: Pass it around.
• 31:00
  Zaheda Ghani: Yes.
• 31:00
  Zaheda Ghani: Uh, so it's, it's her, uh, it's her feedback and it really helped, um, change Yeah.
• 31:05
  Zaheda Ghani: The cadence of my writing.
• 31:06
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 31:07
  Natasha Rai: Because for you, especially with time, you also work full time.
• 31:10
  Zaheda Ghani: That's right.
• 31:10
  Natasha Rai: So you have to find your, what works for you in terms of carving out that time.
• 31:16
  Zaheda Ghani: You got it because, um, you know, lunchtimes and after work and evenings, my cognitive load from work is so high, it doesn't really, my brain just doesn't go there.
• 31:25
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:26
  Zaheda Ghani: And I get on the laptop again, but in the meetings, because I work up quite early, it's just I've got the meditation, prayer, and all of the reflection time.
• 31:35
  Zaheda Ghani: Then I've got my creative time.
• 31:37
  Zaheda Ghani: And then believe it or not, I'm way more confident and creative in my workday because I've had that.
• 31:44
  Zaheda Ghani: That time to, you know, of solitude and creativity and it just sets me up much better for the rest of the day as well.
• 31:51
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 31:52
  Natasha Rai: And if you're setting an intention for your creative time, there's also a sense of accomplishment of, I did the thing that I wanted to do today.
• 31:59
  Zaheda Ghani: Yes.
• 32:00
  Natasha Rai: Yes.
• 32:01
  Natasha Rai: And how are you feeling about, uh, not so much the manuscript, but the pro this process again, does it feel different to the first time?
• 32:09
  Zaheda Ghani: It doesn't in that I know I can disappear into the scene I'm writing and, uh, and how it feels is the same.
• 32:19
  Zaheda Ghani: I think, um, there is a, I'm not expecting that just because I got published the first time, it will see the light of day, the second time, and I'm holding onto that expectation because it's a reality, right?
• 32:34
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 32:34
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 32:35
  Zaheda Ghani: The first one, because I didn't even have anything, I didn't have to control for expectation or because I know how it feels.
• 32:42
  Zaheda Ghani: It's kind of like I'm not thinking about that.
• 32:44
  Zaheda Ghani: I've kind of like compartmentalized it because it was about that journey.
• 32:49
  Zaheda Ghani: I feel if I, if I hadn't had that journey, I would still be much more, I guess it'll be like much less of a, an issue or, or question.
• 33:02
  Zaheda Ghani: So it's really important for me to go back to.
• 33:06
  Zaheda Ghani: Even if it doesn't get published, who am I writing this for?
• 33:09
  Zaheda Ghani: It's actually, I'm writing it for me.
• 33:10
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 33:10
  Zaheda Ghani: Oh, that's what makes it fun.
• 33:13
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 33:14
  Natasha Rai: But you know, Zaheda that like that is a very difficult thing for a lot of writers to do because once they have their first novel maybe picked up, one of the things I've heard a lot about is disappointment in terms of trying to get your second book out or working on it, so that feels very healthy and refreshing that you are able to do that for yourself.
• 33:35
  Natasha Rai: That you are able to say, you know what?
• 33:37
  Natasha Rai: I wanna write this for me, and I'm taking the expectation of publication out.
• 33:42
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 33:42
  Zaheda Ghani: And I think, um, whenever I've done something creative.
• 33:47
  Zaheda Ghani: The more it's meant to me, the more it's meant to others.
• 33:50
  Zaheda Ghani: And maybe it's not gonna work with the second novel.
• 33:53
  Zaheda Ghani: It doesn't matter because it doesn't, it's not like a, we, we don't have switches, right?
• 33:56
  Zaheda Ghani: For these things.
• 33:58
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, even small things that I've written or I used to design clothes once upon a time.
• 34:04
  Zaheda Ghani: Like the things that really resonated were because I was the most, the things that are most authentic to me.
• 34:09
  Zaheda Ghani: So that's kind of where I'm anchoring it in terms of.
• 34:13
  Zaheda Ghani: If I have fun doing it, it was worth it, basically.
• 34:17
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 34:17
  Zaheda Ghani: It doesn't, about the other stuff, the other stuff is outta my control.
• 34:21
  Natasha Rai: True.
• 34:22
  Natasha Rai: It, it does take a lot of practice and experience, I think as well to be able to say, I can actively not think about that or push that away for now.
• 34:33
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:34
  Zaheda Ghani: And, and, and what I, what I also mean is, do I.
• 34:39
  Zaheda Ghani: Do I still feel the same as I did the first time, which is, I'm gonna tell you a story, okay?
• 34:47
  Zaheda Ghani: A story I'm interested in.
• 34:49
  Zaheda Ghani: I, it's fun and cool, and then so I'm thinking of you, but I'm not doing it for you.
• 34:57
  Natasha Rai: Exactly.
• 34:58
  Natasha Rai: Yes, yes.
• 35:00
  Natasha Rai: You're doing it for the love of storytelling.
• 35:01
  Natasha Rai: You're doing it for the love of the creative flow, and you're doing it for the love of the craft as well.
• 35:07
  Zaheda Ghani: It's actually the characters'cause they're so weird and fun and whatever, and then it's, and the voice of what the right word will, how the right word will land, what's the right word?
• 35:21
  Zaheda Ghani: That kind of feeling of landing the right sentence and saying, oh, that's the right kind of, I guess, feeling I wanna convey in this sentence.
• 35:30
  Zaheda Ghani: And then it's, it's those things in within it, within the craft or as you as.
• 35:35
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 35:36
  Natasha Rai: Is that your always your starting point or does it feel like that's where you always like to start with characters?
• 35:42
  Zaheda Ghani: Good question.
• 35:43
  Zaheda Ghani: I think, yes.
• 35:45
  Zaheda Ghani: I think the character is trying to think.
• 35:49
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 35:49
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah, definitely.
• 35:51
  Zaheda Ghani: Because as I get to know them then, then I can get to know where, what they will, what they will do, and then the rest.
• 36:00
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 36:02
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 36:02
  Natasha Rai: You know, it's so interesting to me because you and one other writer are the only two people I know that start in this point.
• 36:09
  Natasha Rai: 'cause that's how I start.
• 36:10
  Natasha Rai: I usually start with the character or characters and I just have to wait so they can tell me what they're gonna do and what they're up to.
• 36:18
  Natasha Rai: And when you talk to people who, who write in a different way, or people who don't write, they're like, yeah, but how does that work because you are making it up.
• 36:25
  Natasha Rai: I'm like, well, sort of, but not really.
• 36:27
  Natasha Rai: It just happens.
• 36:29
  Zaheda Ghani: Isn't that the, isn't that so true?
• 36:30
  Zaheda Ghani: Because.
• 36:32
  Zaheda Ghani: I don't know where the things come from, right?
• 36:34
  Zaheda Ghani: You just typing, thoughts are coming, ideas are, and you just type the ideas.
• 36:39
  Natasha Rai: It's like a conduit, like you're just Yeah.
• 36:41
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 36:41
  Natasha Rai: You're flowing and you're just doing it.
• 36:43
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 36:43
  Zaheda Ghani: You're having fun.
• 36:44
  Zaheda Ghani: You can see them.
• 36:45
  Zaheda Ghani: I can see them in, you know, a small room.
• 36:48
  Zaheda Ghani: Uh, right now this like a scene that would just, like in my head, I, there was a small room, she was sitting there, there was a curtain of a certain fabric and I was like, yeah.
• 36:57
  Zaheda Ghani: And that's not just our imagination doing what it does, right?
• 37:00
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 37:01
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 37:02
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 37:02
  Natasha Rai: Once you give it the enough space and time and all the, all the lovely things that are within our control to help the imagination.
• 37:09
  Zaheda Ghani: You got it.
• 37:10
  Natasha Rai: Good.
• 37:10
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 37:11
  Zaheda Ghani: You got it.
• 37:12
  Zaheda Ghani: I was the other day speaking, um, with um, someone in our, in our writing group actually, about what, how do we get to the end?
• 37:21
  Zaheda Ghani: How do we get to a finished novel?
• 37:22
  Zaheda Ghani: And it's like some folks like to write the structure and then fill in.
• 37:28
  Natasha Rai: Yes.
• 37:29
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 37:31
  Zaheda Ghani: Mm-hmm.
• 37:31
  Zaheda Ghani: And I, I write with scenes will just come and I will just write them and then I will need to be a reader, come back to it after a while to see if things are happening.
• 37:43
  Natasha Rai: I get it.
• 37:44
  Zaheda Ghani: It's so amazing how there's such different ways of accessing what's in our imagination and getting it on.
• 37:49
  Natasha Rai: Exactly.
• 37:50
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 37:52
  Natasha Rai: And, uh, we are coming to the end, so just have a.
• 37:55
  Natasha Rai: A couple of final questions.
• 37:57
  Natasha Rai: Um, in terms of, it's kind of the same question, but I'm gonna put into, in, into two different ways.
• 38:04
  Natasha Rai: What have you learned along the way about any of it, whether, whether it's publication or writing, and do you have any tips or top tips for other emerging writers?
• 38:16
  Zaheda Ghani: Sure.
• 38:17
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, what I have learned, and this is something, you know, from the year of novel that, uh, really stuck with me is.
• 38:24
  Zaheda Ghani: There isn't really a criteria for whether you are a writer or not, that kind of, um, wanting to pass a gate or earning it as a right is not a thing.
• 38:40
  Zaheda Ghani: If we are writing, because that's where we like to have our creative outlet, then we are a writer.
• 38:45
  Zaheda Ghani: It doesn't matter.
• 38:46
  Zaheda Ghani: Beyond that.
• 38:47
  Zaheda Ghani: I think that is one of the big lessons that I've still keep, uh, worked hard to keep as well, because it's very easy to fall into the, all of the other stuff that comes with, and maybe it might hinder me showing up.
• 39:01
  Natasha Rai: So.
• 39:02
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 39:02
  Natasha Rai: And lots of emerging writers do that, that kind of mini minimizing and that shrinking into self.
• 39:07
  Natasha Rai: And you, you can barely utter the words I'm a writer.
• 39:11
  Zaheda Ghani: Yes, yes.
• 39:12
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, the tips would be to, um, I guess.
• 39:16
  Zaheda Ghani: I'm not an expert, but I think it's connected to that point, which is trust yourself.
• 39:22
  Zaheda Ghani: If you love it, then that is where the celebration comes from because, you know, the pro, that process of, um, um, Emily calls it, you know, that she, she mentioned she was quoting someone, and I cannot remember the details.
• 39:37
  Zaheda Ghani: It was like the image you have of what it should sound like is very different to what ends up when you actually.
• 39:45
  Zaheda Ghani: Put it on the page and then the journey is making the to match, you know?
• 39:50
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, it's like how do I refine this thing I've got on the page to match the vision in my head?
• 39:57
  Zaheda Ghani: Yes.
• 39:58
  Zaheda Ghani: Right?
• 39:58
  Zaheda Ghani: Yes.
• 39:59
  Zaheda Ghani: If you got a paragraph that matches the vision in your head to a level you are happy with, it's a win.
• 40:07
  Natasha Rai: And that's why you love the editing and polishing, because that's literally the work to get the two matching right?
• 40:13
  Natasha Rai: Because your first draft, it's very rare.
• 40:15
  Natasha Rai: You might have moments of brilliance, but most of it's not going to match.
• 40:20
  Natasha Rai: Yes.
• 40:21
  Natasha Rai: Oh, I like that a lot.
• 40:24
  Natasha Rai: Uh, so for your manuscript then, and I'm, this is not about you needing to tell me anything more about it if you don't want to.
• 40:30
  Natasha Rai: Do you have a timeframe in mind for when you would like to finish a draft, or is that feeling like too much pressure to think of it like that?
• 40:39
  Zaheda Ghani: It's definitely a lot of pressure to think of it that way, but I also won't do it if I don't set myself a deadline.
• 40:44
  Zaheda Ghani: So I wanna have a, you know, by the end of the year if I can, I, I wanna be in a point where I've got what I think is a first draft.
• 40:53
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 40:54
  Zaheda Ghani: Um, that has everything in it, but that's a very ambitious goal.
• 41:00
  Zaheda Ghani: If I, if I said something, I'll get something close.
• 41:03
  Zaheda Ghani: If I said nothing, I'll probably just wander.
• 41:06
  Zaheda Ghani: For another few years.
• 41:08
  Natasha Rai: Again, it's that setting of intention that you mentioned earlier.
• 41:11
  Zaheda Ghani: Yeah.
• 41:12
  Natasha Rai: Uh, well, Zaheda Ghani, thank you so much for your generosity and taking the time to talk to me today.
• 41:19
  Zaheda Ghani: Thank you for having me.
• 41:20
  Natasha Rai: It's been my absolute pleasure.
• 41:26
  Tina Strachan: Thank you for listening to the Book Deal podcast.
• 41:29
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• 41:38
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